Joe Rogan Experience #1189 - Alex Honnold

1. 0:02 – 1:30

   Free Solo Q&A fatigue and the film’s “death montage” controversy

   1. AHAlex Honnold0:02

      Should I, should I do headphones, or does it matter?

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      Yeah, I like headphones.

   3. AHAlex Honnold0:06

      I kinda hate hearing myself that loud though.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Why? You sound good.

   5. AHAlex Honnold0:08

      All right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Why do you hate hearing yourself?

   7. AHAlex Honnold0:10

      Dude.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      Try to pull this sucker up, like about a fist from your face. Good to see you again, man.

   9. AHAlex Honnold0:14

      Yeah, it's been a long time.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       It has been.

   11. AHAlex Honnold0:16

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:16

       With a guy like you, it's always nice to see you're still alive. (laughs)

   13. AHAlex Honnold0:18

       Oh, you know, I do my best.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Do you get tired of hearing shit like that?

   15. AHAlex Honnold0:21

       Oh, I don't care. I mean-

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Do you get tired of like-

   17. AHAlex Honnold0:23

       ... I get it a lot.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       ... the weirdness of like interviewing with people and they're like, you know, "You know you could die? Is this scary?"

   19. AHAlex Honnold0:31

       (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, that's all right though. I mean, the thing is... Yeah, it's funny, uh, touring with the film, we've been doing Q and A's every night and you get the same questions from the audience all the time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah.

   21. AHAlex Honnold0:38

       And part of that is tiring. But then part of it, like people ask the same questions because they're obvious, because everybody wants to know the same things.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Right.

   23. AHAlex Honnold0:45

       And I'm like, "I understand that," you know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       One of the weirdest parts of the film is when they're showing all the guys who have died from free soloing and they're-

   25. AHAlex Honnold0:54

       Yeah, though actually, they didn't all die free soloing.

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       Oh.

   27. AHAlex Honnold0:57

       That, that's actually one of the... That's probably the only thing that I take slight issue with, with the film.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Ah.

   29. AHAlex Honnold1:01

       Is it's slightly hyperbolic, is the... Two of them died BASE jumping and one of them died rope jumping. They, they all were free soloists, which is kind of what the film is saying-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Uh-huh.
2. 1:30 – 3:38

   Why “easy” terrain can be more dangerous: complacency and statistics

   1. AHAlex Honnold1:30

      I mean, I, I prefer... The other way to look at it is that no free soloist has ever died doing anything cutting edge. That's my favorite statistic. That, uh...

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:37

      What does that mean?

   3. AHAlex Honnold1:38

      Like no free soloist has ever died doing hard soloing. Like basically a free, a few free soloists have died falling off a easy terrain or just falling off sort of routine or, you know, I don't know, just falling off a mountain. But none of them have ever died while doing something cutting edge, something that had never been done before or something that was, you know, hardcore.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      Hmm. Do you think that's because when you're doing something that's a little bit easier, you relax?

   5. AHAlex Honnold2:01

      I think that's probably a part of it. But also I think part of it is just a numbers thing. You spend so much time doing easy stuff and so little time doing really hard stuff-

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:07

      Hmm.

   7. AHAlex Honnold2:08

      ... that, you know, it's just statistics, but...

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:12

      Um, how much, how important is it when, when you're free soloing to have that edge, to be like really ta- cognizant about how intense this is? Like if you got too calm and too relaxed...

   9. AHAlex Honnold2:23

      No, I, I think that's, I think that is kind of the concern for sure. And I not- I've noticed that in, for myself anyway, and I, I try not to do very much easy soloing anymore because there is a certain complacency, that over time, you know, you just do so much mileage on easy terrain and then you're like, "This is so easy. This is so easy." And then you slip and you die.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Whoa.

   11. AHAlex Honnold2:41

       And you're like, "Whoa." You know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:44

       You know, fighters look at things that way too, like they, at a certain point in their life they don't want easy fights because they need to get challenged, otherwise they won't train properly and then they wind up losing to people that they should lose too.

   13. AHAlex Honnold2:55

       Yeah, yeah. You have to take it seriously.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Yeah. Well, the difference between a fighter, say, when they're not trained and not in camp, and just their skill and what their body can do without, without-

   15. AHAlex Honnold3:05

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       ... going through a camp, is probably only like 70% of what they are when they actually go through everything with full intensity, eight weeks-

   17. AHAlex Honnold3:17

       Totally.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       ... two times a day, f- you know, physical therapy, massage, b- b- visualization.

   19. AHAlex Honnold3:24

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       S- conditioning. All the, all the things that make them who they are the day they step into the cage. Like when you free solo-

   21. AHAlex Honnold3:31

       It's funny, that's so... That's... Yeah, I mean if... Yeah, you saw the film, that's all, uh, exactly-

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       Yeah.

   23. AHAlex Honnold3:37

       ... the level of preparation that went into it.

3. 3:38 – 4:54

   Peaking for El Cap: mental readiness over physical freshness

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:38

      Do you take time off before a big free solo? Do you like r- do you rest your body or peak?

   2. AHAlex Honnold3:43

      No, it's kind of the opposite. It's the... No, it's the opposite. It's sort of ramping up to it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:47

      Right. But do you... Is there any concern that maybe you haven't given yourself enough recuperative time, like the, for the day of?

   4. AHAlex Honnold3:55

      No. Well, so for me anyway, it was always sort of the opposite because the real challenge of free soloing is the psychological side, the mental side of it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Mm-hmm.

   6. AHAlex Honnold4:01

      It's not so much the physical. Like I don't necessarily have to physically perform at the absolute limit of what I'm capable of, but I have to mentally perform at that level. And so... And the mental side of it comes so much from confidence and feeling, you know, feeling prepared.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:15

      Mm-hmm.

   8. AHAlex Honnold4:16

      And so... I don't know. So when I, when I free soloed El Cap, I kind of knew that I wasn't actually... Um, like I'd probably already started to decline a little bit physically over the course of the season because the two months in Yosemite is just kind of grueling on your body. Like all the, the time I spent going up and down on the wall and preparing, it's very, very tiring. And so I kind of realized that I was starting to get sort of deeply fati- you know, I was sort of a week away from like having s- started a slump of like-

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:38

      Mm-hmm.

   10. AHAlex Honnold4:38

       ... "Oh, I'm kind of pooped." But the thing is, I knew that, that because of all that preparation, you know, psychologically I was as, as good as I was ever gonna be. So even if I was physically starting to be a little bit tired, it's like time to... You know, it's kind of the, the, the different curves. You have to hit it right at the right moment.

4. 4:54 – 5:51

   Visualization as rehearsal: removing surprise on the wall

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:54

      Now is your psychological preparation just you getting your mind into it? Or do you have like specific techniques you use or a form of meditation or anything that you specifically concentrate on when you're visualizing success? Or...

   2. AHAlex Honnold5:08

      No. When... It's not even necessarily visualizing success or... It's visualizing... For me, it's visualizing the experience, like sort of imagining what everything will feel like, imagining what it'll like to place my foot on a hold or what... You know, grabbing... Like the sensations of it and the exposure of it, um. You know, thinking through what it'll feel like with so much air around me and no rope. (laughs) You know, just that... Basically to make sure that nothing is surprising when I get there.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:31

      Dude, my hands are sweating just talking to you.

   4. AHAlex Honnold5:33

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:33

      I'm not kidding. Feel that. Feel that. That's fucking gross, right?

   6. AHAlex Honnold5:38

      Yeah, they're clammy.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      I realized it, like when I'm talking to you, I'm thinking about you doing this-

   8. AHAlex Honnold5:42

      Yeah. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:42

      ... and my hands started fucking sweating.

   10. AHAlex Honnold5:44

       Yeah, you started thinking about 1,000 feet air and you're like, "Oh."

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:46

       Whoo. Yeah, think of... Start thinking about chalk and powder-

   12. AHAlex Honnold5:49

       Yeah. And-

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:49

       ... and that, shit like that.

   14. AHAlex Honnold5:51

       (laughs)

5. 5:51 – 6:45

   Creating mental space: deleting distractions before the climb

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:51

      Goddamn, dude. Um, have you ever, um, d- gone to... like a sports psychologist or have you ever like actively tried to coordinate a program for mental training or anything like that?

   2. AHAlex Honnold6:07

      No, not really. I mean, so with...With free soloing El Cap, I found that, uh, I needed to create enough space for ... It's not so much mental training, but, um, but create enough empty time so that I had ... uh, so that I was able to sort of process. So, um, I don't know. So I, like, stopped responding to email, I erased my social media. I, like, sort of-

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Mm-hmm.

   4. AHAlex Honnold6:26

      ... freed up my life and then actually my girlfriend, um, left for sort of the week ahead of time, so then I was just totally by myself in my van with nothing going on. Like, no distractions. And so that's not exactly, you know, mental training, but it was giving myself the free time that I could just sit around and think about things. You know, I could process, like, it in my own terms, at my own time.

6. 6:45 – 10:06

   Fame, film release, and the “expedition” of a media tour

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:45

      When was the last time we talked? How many years ago was that?

   2. AHAlex Honnold6:48

      (laughs) It's so long. It's, uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:49

      I feel like it was at least four, right?

   4. AHAlex Honnold6:51

      Oh, no. It was like f- six or seven I bet.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      Was it?

   6. AHAlex Honnold6:53

      I think so. I think it was, like, 2012 or something.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:55

      During that time, how much has changed in your life in terms of the way people perceive what you do and the amount of attention that you get? I would imagine that having that alone time now-

   8. AHAlex Honnold7:07

      Yeah, is much harder.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      Yeah.

   10. AHAlex Honnold7:08

       Yeah. No, totally. It's- it's funny. I mean, I've tried to not let my life get busy over time, but it just sort of naturally happens. I mean, it just-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:15

       Well, with success-

   12. AHAlex Honnold7:16

       Yeah, exactly. There's so many more demands.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       ... people wanna talk to you and-

   14. AHAlex Honnold7:19

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       Yeah. I b- when I w- reached out to you, I reached out to you a couple times, but I was like, "This guy is probably getting fucked with all the time." Like, someone's probably always poking at you and you're just trying to get a foothold.

   16. AHAlex Honnold7:30

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Like, literally. (laughs)

   18. AHAlex Honnold7:31

       Just trying to hold on. No, I mean, n- no. I mean, I- I appreciate all the- the opportunities I have now and, you know. I mean, I'm- I'm very happy with the- the way my life has changed over time. But certainly when I look back at 10 or 12 years ago, when I was just a single 20-year-old man living in a car, like, I had nothing going on, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       Yeah.

   20. AHAlex Honnold7:49

       If a- if I had, like, one interview in a month, I'd be like, "Whoa, this is a big month for media." You know? And then now on the film tour, it's, like, completely outrageous. It's totally the other end of the spectrum. Um-

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       Now, when you're doing this film tour, when- when does the film actually come out?

   22. AHAlex Honnold8:03

       Oh, the film's, like, out. It's in theaters. Like, you can go see it right now.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:05

       But you can't get it on iTunes yet, is that what it is?

   24. AHAlex Honnold8:07

       Oh, yeah. Yeah, so-

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:09

       So it's in-

   26. AHAlex Honnold8:09

       So it did a month of festival, uh, circuiting, you know, earlier in, uh, end of the summer. And then it, uh, came out in theaters at the end of September, so it's right now. I think this weekend is its widest release. It's, like, 400 theaters all over the country right now.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       Wow.

   28. AHAlex Honnold8:22

       But ... And then in theory, um, it's through National Geographic, so I think it'll be on television on the channel at some point, and then eventually it'll stream somewhere. I don't know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       Is it strange?

   30. AHAlex Honnold8:32

       It's not.
7. 10:06 – 12:34

   Antarctica expedition: glacier camping, first ascents, and extreme logistics

   1. AHAlex Honnold10:06

      I mean, yeah, it's very different than my normal- normal lifestyle, I guess. But the thing is, you know, it's sort of an adventure and it's an experience in its own way. I've been- I've been kind of calling it a expedition film tour, because, uh, I've done a lot of expeditions in my life. Like last winter I went to Antarctica for a month, and- and it's not exactly the type of climbing I normally do and I don't really like being cold. But you're sort of like, oh, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to go somewhere. You know, it was like going to Mars or something. It was this totally outrageous experience. We're climbing big rock walls on- in Antarctica. You're just living on the glacier, and it's totally different, totally crazy.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:35

      You camped out on a glacier?

   3. AHAlex Honnold10:36

      Yeah, yeah. We were just in a tent on a glacier for a month.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:38

      Wow.

   5. AHAlex Honnold10:39

      It was-

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:39

      And when you do that, how- how thick a pad do you use underneath your tent?

   7. AHAlex Honnold10:42

      Like, really thick. (laughs) Yeah, really thick.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:44

      That's right?

   9. AHAlex Honnold10:44

      And a very, very thick sleeping bag.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Do you ever get warm-

   11. AHAlex Honnold10:47

       No-

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:47

       ... inside of all that?

   13. AHAlex Honnold10:47

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in your sleeping bag, it's a negative 40 degree sleeping bag. I mean, it's pretty legit.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:51

       Wow.

   15. AHAlex Honnold10:52

       But- but anyway, I mean, so that kind of experience, you know, in some ways is very comparable to a film tour. I'm like, "This is gonna be a once in a lifetime thing." You just embrace it. You go with it. You know, it's different than the way you normally choose to live your life, but that kind of makes it interesting, you know? It's something new.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:06

       Well, I could imagine it would be very interesting.

   17. AHAlex Honnold11:08

       Right. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:08

       Yeah. The- the- the Antarctica thing sounds like a trip.

   19. AHAlex Honnold11:12

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:12

       Uh, like, were you traveling on a- an established corridor? It was-

   21. AHAlex Honnold11:18

       No, no. It's, um ... Well, so some people had climbed in the region before, but, um, but we actually did tons of first ascents, like routes and- and summits that had never been climbed.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:25

       Wow.

   23. AHAlex Honnold11:26

       It's just ... Yeah, it's pretty cool.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:27

       Now, when you do something like that, do you map it out in advance? Like-

   25. AHAlex Honnold11:31

       I mean, well, not really 'cause, I mean, there are photos of- of the formations and people, like I said, had climbed some of them. Um, some Norwegians had sort of pioneered the area and written a book about it. But, um ... But then it's not until you get there that you can really decide what you're gonna climb and how it looks. I mean, ultimately you have to look at the rock and see if it's climbable, and so you basically just have to ski up and then touch it and see what you can do and then try to climb it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:52

       You ski up?

   27. AHAlex Honnold11:53

       Well, yeah, 'cause you're living on a glacier. I mean, you don't have to ski everywhere.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:56

       Wow.

   29. AHAlex Honnold11:57

       Yeah. (laughs) It was cool.

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:58

       (laughs)
8. 12:34 – 13:33

   Climbing gear deep dive: shoes, precision, stiffness, and crack technique

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:34

      Those shoes that you wear on a normal climb are very flexible. Are those La Sportivas? Is that what they are?

   2. AHAlex Honnold12:40

      Yeah, that's what, that's what I wear, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      They're very ... They almost look like a sock with like a rubber bottom to it where you could really kinda grip anything.

   4. AHAlex Honnold12:47

      Yeah, it depends. So some are super soft like that. Um, it depends on what you're trying to climb. And then some are really rigid, so that you can step on really small holds and it supports your foot.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:55

      Mm.

   6. AHAlex Honnold12:55

      So like, what I was wearing free soloing El Cap is, like, quite rigid actually. It's like a board, like a platform so that you can put just the tip of your toe on something really small and your foot will st- stay-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:04

      Mm.

   8. AHAlex Honnold13:04

      ... stay flat. Um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:05

      More like a mountaineering type of a boot.

   10. AHAlex Honnold13:07

       Yeah, kind of, but still also very precise 'cause a mountaineering boot, you think clunky and big.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:12

       Right.

   12. AHAlex Honnold13:12

       A climbing shoe is like a ballet slipper, like precise and, and tight-

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:15

       Like stiff.

   14. AHAlex Honnold13:15

       ... but then also rigid, sometimes.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:18

       Yeah.

   16. AHAlex Honnold13:18

       And then also, I don't know, you know, um, when you're climbing cracks, you put your foot into the crack and then you torque it sideways to, like, lock it into place. And so the stiffer the, the shoe is, the more it can, you know, the more that you can lock the shoe into place as opposed to your foot. You basically have to use fewer muscles that way.

9. 13:33 – 17:46

   Inspiration vs imitation: living intentionally without copying free soloing

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:33

      Are you starting a trend?

   2. AHAlex Honnold13:35

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:35

      Are there other people that are following in your footsteps now?

   4. AHAlex Honnold13:38

      I, I ... Actually, what, what do you think?

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:39

      I think probably, yeah.

   6. AHAlex Honnold13:41

      You think?

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:41

      Yeah.

   8. AHAlex Honnold13:42

      Like, you honestly think that?

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:43

      Yeah, I think there's probably-

   10. AHAlex Honnold13:44

       Good.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       ... some people that look at what you're doing and, and young kids that think it must be a, a ... You know, I ... Here's what I think. Most people look at the path that the average person takes in life, you know, "Oh, I wanna sell cars. I'm gonna be an insurance guy. I'm gonna ..." And they look, they look at it like it's death. If they look at a kid, a young kid who's, like, enjoying playing with his friends or doing sports or playing video games or reading comic books, and then you look at what could be the average path that the average person takes in life and sitting in an office all day under fluorescent lights-

   12. AHAlex Honnold14:20

       Mm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       ... it looks like death. It looks like a slow, aching death. But then I look at someone like you, I'm like, "Wow, this guy is living a special life." This is a special life.

   14. AHAlex Honnold14:30

       Well, so ideally the ... somebody would look at it and see that, like, this is somebody living a very intentional life for having chosen a certain path.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       Yes.

   16. AHAlex Honnold14:37

       Not necessarily free soloing. I mean, I would love to inspire people to live an intentional life that they care about.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Yes.

   18. AHAlex Honnold14:43

       I don't necessarily feel like people all need to go free soloing. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:47

       Right. Well, I think-

   20. AHAlex Honnold14:48

       You know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:48

       ... that's, that's a very good way of describing it and a very good way of putting it, because I think you most certainly have influenced people in that regard. But I think also people must be influenced in, in the sense that they see what you're doing is, man, there's moments that you must experience while you are climbing these incredible faces that are kinda magical. When you're up there, you're 1,000 feet up there, the view is fucking spectacular and you're doing it.

   22. AHAlex Honnold15:18

       Mm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:18

       And you, you get to the top of these things. The, the rush and the feeling of accomplishment and the euphoria and just the glory of nature from that perspective.

   24. AHAlex Honnold15:28

       Yeah. Yeah, totally.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:28

       Like, look at this.

   26. AHAlex Honnold15:30

       Yeah. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Woo! I'm ... You could fucking wash your clothes on the sweat-

   28. AHAlex Honnold15:34

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       ... that's in my hands right now. (bangs fist on desk) Man.

   30. AHAlex Honnold15:37

       (laughs)
10. 17:46 – 25:48

    Diet, training fuel, and cognitive edges: vegetarian choices and supplements

    1. JRJoe Rogan17:46

       How old are you now?

    2. AHAlex Honnold17:48

       I'm, uh, 33.

    3. JRJoe Rogan17:49

       Do you feel any difference in the way your body responds to doing this on a regular basis now?

    4. AHAlex Honnold17:56

       Uh, maybe a little bit. Um, I mean (laughs) I hate to say I'm getting old and everything, but, uh, but I think especially right now with the film tour, the amount of travel-... um, like I'm more intentional about my diet and stuff now-

    5. JRJoe Rogan18:07

       Yeah.

    6. AHAlex Honnold18:07

       ... and trying to get enough sleep and things like that. Certainly, you know, 10 years ago, I could just eat a whole tray of Oreos and be like, "All right, I feel great. Let's go climb in the gym. It'll be fun," you know?

    7. JRJoe Rogan18:17

       Yeah.

    8. AHAlex Honnold18:17

       Now I'm like, "Oh, man, I want my green smoothie. I wanna get my night's sleep." And-

    9. JRJoe Rogan18:20

       Right.

    10. AHAlex Honnold18:21

        ... you know.

    11. JRJoe Rogan18:21

        Yeah. I saw that you're, you're not eating meat anymore.

    12. AHAlex Honnold18:24

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan18:24

        And that you eat a lot of vegetables.

    14. AHAlex Honnold18:27

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan18:27

        And do you get your blood work done or do you, do you-

    16. AHAlex Honnold18:30

        No.

    17. JRJoe Rogan18:30

        ... have you ever worked with a nutritionist?

    18. AHAlex Honnold18:32

        No, no, right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan18:32

        You do eat eggs?

    20. AHAlex Honnold18:33

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan18:33

        Okay.

    22. AHAlex Honnold18:34

        I do eat eggs, but-

    23. JRJoe Rogan18:34

        Okay, good.

    24. AHAlex Honnold18:35

        Um, yeah. And I mean, and I have cheese and stuff and-

    25. JRJoe Rogan18:37

        Mm-hmm.

    26. AHAlex Honnold18:38

        ... and, and I mean, even meat. So I mean, I gave up eating meat for environmental reasons mostly.

    27. JRJoe Rogan18:42

        Mm-hmm.

    28. AHAlex Honnold18:42

        Um, like basically impact on the Earth. And so I'm not fundamentally oppo- You know, like I'll eat meat from time to time, certainly for, for cultural norms. Like, uh, you know, I was in Japan earlier this year and, uh, so I ate fish there a bit just because I felt like it was part of the sort of Japanese travel experience. Um-

    29. JRJoe Rogan18:58

        If someone hunted it-

    30. AHAlex Honnold18:59

        But-
11. 25:48 – 37:17

    Climbing’s Olympic future and the spectacle of speed climbing

    1. JRJoe Rogan25:48

       Well, that w- ... That's a question I had for you too. Like, how many people that are doing what you do are on either Adderall or they take things like beta blockers that sort of-

    2. AHAlex Honnold25:58

       Uh, honestly, I th- ... Uh, well, so I think nobody, but ... I mean, a lot of climbers smoke a lot of weed.

    3. JRJoe Rogan26:03

       Mm-hmm.

    4. AHAlex Honnold26:03

       Or, you know, and nowadays I don't even know what you do with it, 'cause you don't even have to smoke it. I don't know, you just-

    5. JRJoe Rogan26:08

       Right. You eat it.

    6. AHAlex Honnold26:08

       Yeah, you just ... Or, uh, yeah, you, like, drink it and stuff. I don't know.

    7. JRJoe Rogan26:11

       Yeah.

    8. AHAlex Honnold26:11

       There's so many, like, cannabis things now. But, uh ... But no, I don't know. So I, I, I've never really done drugs. I don't ... I'm not totally interested, so I don't really know anything about it. But, um ... I don't know, it's interesting because it's not like anyone's drug testing climbers un- unless they're-

    9. JRJoe Rogan26:24

       Right.

    10. AHAlex Honnold26:24

        ... competing at the World Cup level. Or it's actually gonna be in the Olympics in 2020, but-

    11. JRJoe Rogan26:28

        Climbing is?

    12. AHAlex Honnold26:29

        Yeah, climbing is. It's, like, a demonstration.

    13. JRJoe Rogan26:30

        So do they have, um, an event, like, in terms of, like, a pathway that you have to go through?

    14. AHAlex Honnold26:36

        No, so it's, uh ... Well, so World Cup climbing breaks into three disciplines. There's, like, lead climbing, which is, like, uh, same as indoor wall, and then bouldering, which is shorter without a rope, you know, you just climb 12 feet or whatever, and then speed climbing, where it's, like, a preset course. Everyone does the exact same course, but you just go as fast as you can, just against the timer. And so normally there's, uh, three disciplines for the World Cup, but the Olympic format combines all three into one competition.

    15. JRJoe Rogan26:58

        Oh.

    16. AHAlex Honnold26:58

        Because, uh, they're limited by how many medals and whatever, because it's, like, a demonstration sport. They're just sort of, you know ... It's, it's smaller scale than, than some of the other s- sports in the Olympics. But so, um ... Yeah, so basically climbing competitors just have to do all three disciplines and, and then see who wins.

    17. JRJoe Rogan27:13

        I was watching something on YouTube where they had this climbing competition where they ... like, "Ready, set, go," and then they, like, shot up the side of this thing.

    18. AHAlex Honnold27:20

        Yeah, exactly. That's the speed climbing.

    19. JRJoe Rogan27:22

        And this lady, who was wearing a burka, she-

    20. AHAlex Honnold27:25

        (laughs)

    21. JRJoe Rogan27:25

        Is she, like, famous or something?

    22. AHAlex Honnold27:27

        No, I don't know, but, um ... But there are a bunch of really strong Iranian speed climbers, and so I wouldn't be surprised if, if, uh, it's part of that.

    23. JRJoe Rogan27:34

        Ah. She ran up it like a spider. It was crazy to watch.

    24. AHAlex Honnold27:37

        Mm-hmm. Yeah, the ... For whatever reason, speed climbing is really big in Eastern Europe, and then there are a couple really good Iranian speed climbers. And, um ... Yeah, they're just ... It's like ... It's sort of its own little niche sport coming out of certain parts of the world.

    25. JRJoe Rogan27:49

        That is ... Well, there's some strong genes over there in Iran. Like-

    26. AHAlex Honnold27:53

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan27:53

        ... uh, a lot of great wrestlers come out of there.

    28. AHAlex Honnold27:54

        But I don't know. I don't know if the woman you're talking about is from there. I'm, I'm thinking of one specific dude who's so muscular.

    29. JRJoe Rogan27:59

        Here, here is portrait in speed. Iranian speed climber-

    30. AHAlex Honnold28:04

        Oh, yeah. That's Iranian.
12. 37:17 – 1:00:42

    Why free soloing isn’t 115% effort: rope climbing, falls, and the razor edge

    1. AHAlex Honnold37:17

       Well, right now the hardest grade in the world is 15D, which is extremely hard. I mean, it's totally crazy. But so one guy, this Czech guy, has done one route that he called 15D and so it hasn't been repeated, so it's not like an established consensus, but there are several 15Cs in the world and there, there are many 15Bs in the world.

    2. JRJoe Rogan37:34

       Where's this 15D?

    3. AHAlex Honnold37:35

       (clears throat) It's, uh, in a cave in Norway. Just-

    4. JRJoe Rogan37:38

       (laughs) Wow.

    5. AHAlex Honnold37:39

       Yeah. I mean it's, uh, yeah. That's the, kind of the interesting thing about climbing grades and climbing difficulty is that they're all spread around the world at very specific cliffs 'cause it requires just the right combination of, of angle and holds. You know, there have to be enough things to hold onto, but not too many or else it's easier.

    6. JRJoe Rogan37:55

       Right.

    7. AHAlex Honnold37:55

       And so, uh, for, you know, an elite climber, they're basically searching the world all the time trying to find that right mixture of, of rock.

    8. JRJoe Rogan38:02

       Wow, what a strange existence. (laughs)

    9. AHAlex Honnold38:04

       Yeah, it's, it's really, (laughs) it's really, really niche. Yeah, it's very unusual.

    10. JRJoe Rogan38:08

        Now when you hear about some-

    11. AHAlex Honnold38:08

        But, but it's also kinda elemental in a way, you know, because rocks are just out there and you're basically just going and exploring nature until you find the right kinda challenge.

    12. JRJoe Rogan38:17

        Well yeah, there's gotta, there's some sort of a primal satisfaction that comes from climbing something, right?

    13. AHAlex Honnold38:21

        Yeah, totally. I mean, well, there's a certain... Yeah, there's an elemental quality for sure where you're like, "This is something that just exists in the world." And you just, (laughs) yeah, so yeah, this is-

    14. JRJoe Rogan38:29

        Is this it? This is the 15D?

    15. AHAlex Honnold38:29

        Yeah, this is, this is Adam Ondra, this Czech kid-

    16. JRJoe Rogan38:31

        Good God.

    17. AHAlex Honnold38:31

        ... climbing 15D. There's a documentary coming out about it, I guess. No, it's already out. Oh, it's out. It's a, it's a short online. Actually, um-

    18. JRJoe Rogan38:36

        It's called Silence?

    19. AHAlex Honnold38:37

        Yeah. It's called Silence. Yeah, the, the route he put up he called Silence. But, uh, if this is the film, (laughs) just scrub all the way to the very... Oh, that's the, that's the trailer. Yeah. It's just a teaser, yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:45

        Yeah.

    21. AHAlex Honnold38:45

        Yeah, but so you can see he's climbing feet first through some of it and it's totally extreme. It's... So this guy Adam Ondra is, is for sure the strongest climber in the world right now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:52

        Like physical?

    23. AHAlex Honnold38:54

        Yeah, physically. So he's, he put up the world's first 15C and the first 15D, so he's basically pushed the edge of difficulty for the last several grades.

    24. JRJoe Rogan39:01

        Wow.

    25. AHAlex Honnold39:01

        And, um, and he's just freakishly strong. (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan39:05

        Is that something that y- you would have to be to do what he's doing? Like, a, a, a regular climber couldn't do what he's doing? There's almost like acrobatic involved?

    27. AHAlex Honnold39:14

        Yeah, yeah. Look at what he's doing right there. (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan39:16

        Oh my God.

    29. AHAlex Honnold39:16

        It's like, that's... So this is, uh, the world's first 15C, so slightly easier. He did this several years ago. Oh my God. But it's like, um, and then you hear him like-

    30. JRJoe Rogan39:25

        Holy balls. (laughs)
13. 1:00:42 – 1:11:27

    Big-wall realities: routes on El Cap, aid vs free climbing, and rescue scenarios

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       So are you dependent upon the holds that they put in when they put those bolts into the cracks and all the things that-

    2. AHAlex Honnold1:00:46

       Well, so bolts, bolts and things are put in by the first ascensionist, so the very first person to have ever climbed the route, but then everybody thereafter is able to just clip their, their equipment into the bolts or, uh, you know, use pre-established anchors, things like that.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

       Oh, so like if you go-

    4. AHAlex Honnold1:00:59

       So all the, all the routes are already established and you can like read a book that shows all the different routes.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

       Oh.

    6. AHAlex Honnold1:01:05

       So like El Capitan has, uh, something like 112 different routes up it.And-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       Wow.

    8. AHAlex Honnold1:01:10

       ... and of those 112, only 15 or so of them can be free climbed, which is different than free soloing. Free climbing, meaning just using your hands and your feet, and you're still using a rope, you're still clipping into protection as you go, but you're only using your hand and your feet to get you up, as opposed to, like, putting gear in and then pulling on the gear, which would be-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

       Oh.

    10. AHAlex Honnold1:01:27

        ... considered cheating. So of the 100 routes on El Cap, you know, something like 90 of them, you have to pull on the hardware. You have to, like, clip little ladders into it and step on, you know, you have to hammer pitons in and then clip into them and stand on them and hammer another piton and step on that.

Episode duration: 1:41:26