Joe Rogan Experience #1215 - Ben O'Brien

1. 0:00 – 1:39

   Rye Brain, MeatEater merch, and a new outdoor-media “juggernaut”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (sighs) (liquid sloshing) Three, two, one. Was, uh, was this beverage concocted by you? Were you the first one?

   2. BOBen O'Brien0:11

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      You, you created (smacks lips) rye brain.

   4. BOBen O'Brien0:15

      If you ask me, yes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      If you asked Dudley, what does he say?

   6. BOBen O'Brien0:17

      He would say maybe he was there.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      (laughs)

   8. BOBen O'Brien0:20

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Maybe he was there, but-

   10. BOBen O'Brien0:21

       He might've been there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       ... he was definitely there.

   12. BOBen O'Brien0:23

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       But whose idea was it?

   14. BOBen O'Brien0:24

       It's hard to say with these things, Joe.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Cheers, sir.

   16. BOBen O'Brien0:26

       Cheers. (glasses clinking) Good to see you. You look good.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       You look good, too.

   18. BOBen O'Brien0:29

       Yeah. Well-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       I look even better with this shirt, right?

   20. BOBen O'Brien0:30

       Look at that shirt.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       This is the new Ben O'Brien special.

   22. BOBen O'Brien0:32

       Get that shirt.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Can you get this from your website? What is this from-

   24. BOBen O'Brien0:34

       You can go to the, the-

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       The Hunting Collective?

   26. BOBen O'Brien0:35

       ... meateater, themeateater.com.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       The meateater.com.

   28. BOBen O'Brien0:37

       You go to the store, and it's there.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       Yeah, so what people... Uh, you know, I had Steve on, Steve Rinella, our good friend.

   30. BOBen O'Brien0:44

       Yes.
2. 1:39 – 3:00

   The British Columbia moose hunt that sparked their friendship

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:39

      Yeah. Ben and I met-

   2. BOBen O'Brien1:40

      What?

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:40

      ... on a moose hunt in British Columbia.

   4. BOBen O'Brien1:42

      And I would say that it was, like, friendship at first.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:45

      Yeah, we had a great fucking time.

   6. BOBen O'Brien1:46

      We had a great fucking time.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:47

      Right from the jump. It was a good time.

   8. BOBen O'Brien1:48

      Shout out to Mike Hawkras-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:49

      Yeah, Mike Hawkras.

   10. BOBen O'Brien1:50

       ... out there in DC. Love you, buddy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       And, uh, and Sam Sohal-

   12. BOBen O'Brien1:52

       Yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       ... was with us as well. Now, we're-

   14. BOBen O'Brien1:53

       And we had, like... I would always describe that as, like, the most fun that I've ever had on a hunt.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       It was a good time.

   16. BOBen O'Brien1:58

       Maybe ever. I don't know.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       Well-

   18. BOBen O'Brien2:00

       We've done a lot of stuff since then.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       ... we were laughing a lot. That's why. It was, like, a lot of fun and a lot of, you know-

   20. BOBen O'Brien2:04

       There was not a lot of hardship.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       No.

   22. BOBen O'Brien2:06

       Like, we didn't sleep in tents.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Nope, we slept at Mike's house, which is great, and then, you know, it was a lot of hiking and stuff. And, you know, it wasn't-

   24. BOBen O'Brien2:12

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       ... successful until, like, the very last-

   26. BOBen O'Brien2:15

       Last day.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       ... couple of days. Last two days.

   28. BOBen O'Brien2:16

       And you shot a moose, and then the celebration was fantastic.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       We had a good time.

   30. BOBen O'Brien2:21

       We had a great time.
3. 3:00 – 4:51

   Whiskey vs tequila, celebrity booze, and marriage/divorce jokes

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:00

      I don't know what's good rum or bad rum at all to me. Like, I kinda get good whiskey now. I understand whiskey-

   2. BOBen O'Brien3:06

      Mm, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:06

      ... sort of, but-

   4. BOBen O'Brien3:07

      Being Irish, it's just like, it's all just goes in.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:09

      It's all, gets in there once it's-

   6. BOBen O'Brien3:10

      And then it just does what it does when it's in there.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:12

      Yeah, once the party's begun. Like, uh, here's what I don't get. Tequila. People say, "Oh, this is good tequila, this is bad..." Every tequila I ever drank-

   8. BOBen O'Brien3:18

      (farts)

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      ... I go like this. (exhales)

   10. BOBen O'Brien3:20

       What about that George Clooney tequila? What is that?

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:22

       You like that?

   12. BOBen O'Brien3:23

       He's got his own tequila?

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:23

       Yeah, doesn't he? Is it tequila-

   14. BOBen O'Brien3:25

       Wow.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:25

       ... Jamie? Jamie'll know.

   16. BOBen O'Brien3:26

       Listen.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Avion.

   18. BOBen O'Brien3:27

       I'll tell you what.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Oh, it sounds like a, like a fancy water. It's like-

   20. BOBen O'Brien3:29

       George Clooney tequila can suck a fat dick.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       (laughs)

   22. BOBen O'Brien3:32

       Because Ron White's got his own tequila, Numero Juan.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       (laughs)

   24. BOBen O'Brien3:37

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       Sarcastic tequila.

   26. BOBen O'Brien3:38

       It's just, that's what he calls it Numero Juan Tequila.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       Numero Juan Tequila? (laughs)

   28. BOBen O'Brien3:41

       I think that's what it's called, right? Number Juan, or is it Number Juan?

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       Uh...

   30. BOBen O'Brien3:46

       It's Number Juan?
4. 4:51 – 7:41

   Weed legality, Bozeman’s appeal, and Ben’s ‘storage unit’ living confession

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:51

      That's weed.

   2. BOBen O'Brien4:51

      That's very dangerous.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:52

      It's dangerous for you.

   4. BOBen O'Brien4:53

      Uh, yeah, it is.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:54

      You're from the... You live in Montana, you can't handle this yet.

   6. BOBen O'Brien4:56

      No, no, no, it's not legal there.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:58

      They made it illegal medical. They made medical legal and then they voted it out.

   8. BOBen O'Brien5:02

      (laughs) Well.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:03

      Fucking savages. The way they made dispensaries-

   10. BOBen O'Brien5:06

       California, buddy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       They made medical legal and then they had dispensaries, and then they voted the dispensaries out. When I was in Bozeman last time I was there, they were, they were shutting down the doors of the dispensaries.

   12. BOBen O'Brien5:14

       You live in the golden land here.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Yeah, but you know what? (smacks lips) I hesitate to say this, but it's probably for the best.

   14. BOBen O'Brien5:22

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       Just to keep people like me out of Bozeman.

   16. BOBen O'Brien5:23

       We're in a safe space. It's just me and you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       (laughs)

   18. BOBen O'Brien5:25

       We're in the trushtree. We're in the nest.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       Just, Bozeman is so special. It's such a cool little town. We shouldn't be talking about it. I shouldn't be telling people about how great it is.

   20. BOBen O'Brien5:33

       Let's not talk about it. It's a terrible place. Bears will eat you alive there.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       They will eat you alive.

   22. BOBen O'Brien5:35

       In the streets. They're in the streets, Joe.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       But the good thing is, the dumb people get eaten by bears.

   24. BOBen O'Brien5:40

       That's true.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       Like, you, you... People will turn up missing. Like, some asshole steals lawnmowers.

   26. BOBen O'Brien5:45

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       He'll just t- turn up missing. (laughs)

   28. BOBen O'Brien5:48

       What?

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       He'll just turn up missing.

   30. BOBen O'Brien5:50

       (laughs)
5. 7:41 – 9:32

   Tech ‘why didn’t we do this before?’ and the $7.5M storage-unit safe story

   1. BOBen O'Brien7:41

      So there's a lot of these technology companies, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:43

      Yeah, like Uber.

   3. BOBen O'Brien7:43

      Why weren't we doing that before?

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:44

      Yeah.

   5. BOBen O'Brien7:45

      Uber's a great one.

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:46

      Dude, I was coming home the other night-

   7. BOBen O'Brien7:47

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:47

      ... and there was five Lyfts behind me. So you know, Lyft is different because they have that weird thing on the dash, that little light on the dash.

   9. BOBen O'Brien7:56

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       And it was like I was being chased by these purple robots.

   11. BOBen O'Brien7:59

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       I was like, "What the fuck is this? This is strange."

   13. BOBen O'Brien8:01

       (sighs)

   14. GPGuest (third participant)8:01

       I was gonna ask if you heard the storage, the big storage unit story from the other day as you guys were just talking about that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:05

       No.

   16. BOBen O'Brien8:05

       This big storage unit story?

   17. GPGuest (third participant)8:07

       Yeah. You remember like just the show that was on, the Storage Wars or whatever?

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:09

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   19. BOBen O'Brien8:10

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   20. GPGuest (third participant)8:10

       The guy that was responsible for selling them to people sold one to a guy for $500. And inside was a safe that had $7.5 million in cash in it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       Look at that guy.

   22. BOBen O'Brien8:22

       Was this on the show?

   23. GPGuest (third participant)8:23

       Once the guy sold it. No, it wasn't on the show, it just happened recently. So the guy that bought it-

   24. BOBen O'Brien8:27

       What?

   25. GPGuest (third participant)8:27

       ... actually was contacted by lawyers from the people who owned it, and he made a deal with them.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:33

       What's the deal?

   27. BOBen O'Brien8:33

       What's the deal?

   28. GPGuest (third participant)8:34

       He kept, he kept like a million or something like that, gave the rest back.

   29. BOBen O'Brien8:36

       Joe, would you wanna go into a business-

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       (clears throat)
6. 9:32 – 12:16

   Netflix culture, dark prestige TV, and Ben’s love of musicals

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:32

      But did you see Ozark? You ever see Ozark?

   2. BOBen O'Brien9:34

      I watched like the first couple episodes and then I kinda-

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:35

      Well, I fucked it up for you.

   4. BOBen O'Brien9:37

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:37

      'Cause there's a pivotal moment that I just gave away.

   6. BOBen O'Brien9:39

      There's too many, there's so many shows though.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:41

      There are so many shows, but that's a damn good one.

   8. BOBen O'Brien9:44

      It is a good-

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      That is a damn good show.

   10. BOBen O'Brien9:46

       What's the guy, that's the guy who stars in that?

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:48

       Jason Bateman?

   12. BOBen O'Brien9:48

       Bateman.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:49

       He's excellent. And the woman, Laura...

   14. GPGuest (third participant)9:52

       Linney.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:52

       Linney?

   16. BOBen O'Brien9:52

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:53

       Linney. She's amazing.

   18. BOBen O'Brien9:54

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       The family's amazing. The kid's amazing. It's a fucking show, man. It's a show. Woo!

   20. BOBen O'Brien9:58

       It's a show.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:59

       You get sucked in and that Netflix lets you watch them all, like a pig.

   22. BOBen O'Brien10:02

       Are you ready? Listen, let me ask you a question. I'm gonna-

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       Yes.

   24. BOBen O'Brien10:05

       I ask a lot of people this and I said this at a, um, Christmas party and I got, with a bunch of hunters and I got, you know, a couple of like the stink eye, like, "What's this guy talking about?"

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       Conservatives?

   26. GPGuest (third participant)10:13

       Hmm.

   27. BOBen O'Brien10:13

       Eh, I don't know about that. I, maybe I'm just weird. Have you ever seen the sh- the movie The Greatest Showman?

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       Oh, is that the, um, the musical?

   29. BOBen O'Brien10:21

       It is.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       I've been forced to watch segments of that with my wife and children.
7. 12:16 – 18:55

   Why entertainment keeps escalating: from Game of Thrones to porn categories

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:16

      Yeah. What, is that... Do you think, and here's the, come- coming from a person that's been on a bunch of life changing experiences, and I know you have-

   2. BOBen O'Brien12:22

      It's fair.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:22

      ... and I'd love, I wanna talk to you about some of them.

   4. BOBen O'Brien12:24

      Yes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:25

      Especially the one in Nepal where you almost died and you saw children and wolves walking through-

   6. BOBen O'Brien12:28

      Babies. I saw that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:28

      We, we talked about that on the...

   8. BOBen O'Brien12:30

      The last podcast.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:31

      But-

   10. BOBen O'Brien12:31

       But it's probably, it, it would be-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       Yeah.

   12. BOBen O'Brien12:32

       ... worth revisiting.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:33

       Um...... what do you think this is? Like, why, why are we so obsessed with life or death drama that's artificial?

   14. BOBen O'Brien12:42

       Well, you see it, like, in the, in the, in the show Westworld, they talk about, like, it being a game.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       Yeah.

   16. BOBen O'Brien12:47

       It being this game of excess. Like, what can't I do in my real life?

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       Right.

   18. BOBen O'Brien12:52

       And so when you watch TV and you watch murdering and you watch this, this evil thing come to life, you're just, you're, it's, it really is something that you can be transported. You can't do that in your regular life.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Well, for, for sure with Westworld, what you're getting is basically a real live version of that Red Dead Redemption.

   20. BOBen O'Brien13:10

       That's right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:10

       So, when you, when you play that, we were talking about the other day how this guy got in trouble because they have all these things in the game that you can do to people.

   22. BOBen O'Brien13:18

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:18

       And this guy, like, tied this hooker up and threw her off a cliff and shit, and-

   24. BOBen O'Brien13:22

       That's dark.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       ... you can, you could do whatever you want.

   26. BOBen O'Brien13:23

       It's dark.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       But they were, they were filming this stuff and putting it on YouTube. And then YouTube would get mad and YouTube pulled them off, but then people were like, "Well, wait a minute, though. Why, how come you can just do it, like-

   28. BOBen O'Brien13:35

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:35

       ... why did you, why did you have that in the game?"

   30. BOBen O'Brien13:37

       But it, it... When my dad was my age, 30, 40 years ago, there would, they would never have ever-
8. 18:55 – 27:27

   Superhero dominance, Batman casting debates, and franchise fatigue

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:55

      It's like, why are superheroes so huge to us? If you stop and think about the number of blockbusters that are superhero movies, that are comic book movies-

   2. BOBen O'Brien19:04

      They're coming out, like, once every couple of months now.

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:06

      It's crazy. Y- t- that was a rare beast when I was a kid.

   4. BOBen O'Brien19:10

      Yes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:11

      When I was a kid, if there was a Hulk movie, I would've jumped for joy.

   6. BOBen O'Brien19:14

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:14

      There was no goddamn Spider-Man movie when I was a kid. There was a TV show and it sucked, okay?

   8. BOBen O'Brien19:20

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:20

      It was a goddamn cartoon TV show. Spider-Man, Spider-Man.

   10. BOBen O'Brien19:25

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:25

       Does whatever a spider can.

   12. BOBen O'Brien19:27

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:27

       Spins a web, any size. Catches thieves, just like flies. Look out, shh, here comes the Spider-Man. It was terrible.

   14. BOBen O'Brien19:35

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       And I used to get up early to watch it, 'cause I was a huge comic book nerd.

   16. BOBen O'Brien19:39

       You've watched the Lou Ferrigno Hulk, right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       Fuck yeah, I watched it.

   18. BOBen O'Brien19:42

       That was a little bit... I mean, like, you watched the Batman-

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       Yeah.

   20. BOBen O'Brien19:44

       ... with Adam West.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:45

       Yeah.

   22. BOBen O'Brien19:46

       You watch him now and you're like, "What is happening here?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       So they came out with Superman. He was, like, the first movies. That- what is this, a Spider-Man TV show? Mm-hmm. Wow. That's another TV show.

   24. BOBen O'Brien19:55

       What's that guy in the back, what's that guy in the background doing?

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Who's that guy?

   26. BOBen O'Brien19:57

       He don't look, he don't look like he's doing anything good.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       He's got a wooden stick. Nothing. He needs to know those shits are just for practice.

   28. BOBen O'Brien20:02

       He needs to know that Spider-Man can shoot webs out of his hands and that wooden stick's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:05

       Yeah.

   30. BOBen O'Brien20:05

       ... probably not gonna do much.
9. 27:27 – 34:56

   ‘Pro-nuance’ in hunting politics: guns, environment, and public lands

   1. BOBen O'Brien27:27

      I'm pro-nuance.

   2. JRJoe Rogan27:30

      Yeah. How'd you come up with this shirt? Pro-nuance that type of bullshit?

   3. BOBen O'Brien27:33

      I don't know. Listen, I think the way that I came up with it is 'cause in the ... In the hunting world, there is this ... Speaking of conservative, there's this like ... There's the conservative traditionalist, right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan27:42

      Yeah.

   5. BOBen O'Brien27:42

      And there's the more progressive folks that you have met and been around. You've been around both.

   6. JRJoe Rogan27:46

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BOBen O'Brien27:46

      But ... Been around both that are more environmentalists, more public lands, more access, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan27:51

      Mm-hmm.

   9. BOBen O'Brien27:52

      Um, so there's kinda like two ... Of course, there's always two sides in politics, but there's, in this case, two distinct sides, right? And the line kinda gets drawn around, one, a little bit around guns, but also a little bit around the environment. So-

   10. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       Yeah.

   11. BOBen O'Brien28:04

       Part of the biggest issue in, in politics for a hunter or angler right now is like, "I really like guns. I like the Second Amendment, I dig what's going on there. I'd like to support that. But what I also like is healthy ecosystems and environment and i- ... And I like habitat for wild game to live and public lands and access." Well, it just so happens that a lot of the A+ rated politicians for the NRA are like F- or D+ rated in protecting wildlife and wild lands.

   12. JRJoe Rogan28:33

       Mm.

   13. BOBen O'Brien28:33

       And a lot of that's around extraction and, and different things like that, but-

   14. JRJoe Rogan28:36

       Extraction of minerals and oil and natural resources from those lands.

   15. BOBen O'Brien28:39

       From valuable lands, right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan28:40

       Right. So they change-

   17. BOBen O'Brien28:41

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan28:41

       ... the, the way these lands are scheduled?

   19. BOBen O'Brien28:44

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan28:44

       Like what, what it's under?

   21. BOBen O'Brien28:45

       Yeah, I mean there was a lot of-

   22. JRJoe Rogan28:46

       Like protections.

   23. BOBen O'Brien28:46

       Yeah, it was right around monuments of course. That was one-

   24. JRJoe Rogan28:48

       Mm-hmm.

   25. BOBen O'Brien28:48

       ... big one. But it's, it's, it's just around like the general basis of, even as a hunter, but all Americans, but as a hunter, I'm faced with like, "I love wildlife. I love wild places, clean water, clean lands." I'm all for that. That's a huge part of what I believe in. But I also believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in my right to defend my family, I believe in my right to, to own firearms and to, and to do that. So I believe in those two things, but because our politics are the way they are, it doesn't leave room for those two beliefs when I'm at, uh, uh, at the voting booth.

   26. JRJoe Rogan29:18

       Well-

   27. BOBen O'Brien29:18

       Sometimes.

   28. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       The-

   29. BOBen O'Brien29:19

       Not all the time, but sometimes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan29:20

       It doesn't ... It hardly leaves room for those beliefs in normal conversations with people, unless you absolutely know that the person's gonna be objective and-
10. 34:56 – 40:12

    Bears Ears, Grand Staircase, and the Antiquities Act as a political football

    1. BOBen O'Brien34:56

       Because it's not... Again, that, that... You're... We're talking about Grand Staircase-Escalante and Bears Ears National Monument. Bears Ears being, i- in Utah, being-

    2. JRJoe Rogan35:04

       Explain to people what happened.

    3. BOBen O'Brien35:06

       Oh, boy.

    4. JRJoe Rogan35:06

       If you would.

    5. BOBen O'Brien35:07

       Um, I'll, I'll do my best.

    6. JRJoe Rogan35:08

       Please do. Thank you.

    7. BOBen O'Brien35:09

       Joe.

    8. JRJoe Rogan35:09

       Thank you, Ben.

    9. BOBen O'Brien35:10

       So, so the Antiquities Act. Let's go back to the Antiquities Act.

    10. JRJoe Rogan35:14

        Right.

    11. BOBen O'Brien35:14

        It's, it's to protect... The Antiquities Act is to protect, um, culturally or socially, mostly culturally significant pieces of, of land, uh, all the way to things like the Grand Canyon, right? And so spin it up to the end of... There's a lot that I just skipped over, but I'm gonna spin it up to the end of the Obama administration. President Obama used his executive power to protect large swaths, millions of acres around th- about, around Bears Ears National Monument, to protect not only the, the significant places for Native Americans and for, um, native tribesmen around Bears Ears, but many millions of acres around that. And so then it becomes... The problem I have and the why that, kind of that T-shirt exists, it becomes a political football thrown back and forth. It's not, at this point in time, what's best for Bears Ears, what's best for that national monument, what's best for, for it to be federally owned, what's best for the people, the jobs, the place. It becomes what's best for each side and their rhetoric. And so President Trump asked Secretary, former Secretary of Interior, R- Ryan Zinke, to review, uh, I think it was, like, 10 monuments to see if they should be reduced based on the protections that Obama had put, put into place. So he reviews these 10 monuments, he cuts out eight of them, and hones in on two places, Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante. They then say, "We're going to reduce the size of these monuments."

    12. JRJoe Rogan36:52

        When you say cuts out eight of them, what do you mean by cuts out? Just ignore them?

    13. BOBen O'Brien36:54

        They review the other eight and say-

    14. JRJoe Rogan36:56

        They're fine? Okay.

    15. BOBen O'Brien36:56

        ... "They're good to go." No change is necessary.

    16. JRJoe Rogan36:58

        Okay.

    17. BOBen O'Brien36:59

        Some would say they did that as a, as a straw man, as eight straw men to knock them over and look at those other two. They said, "We will reduce the pre- the, the area that is de- designated as a national monument." And here, again, it comes to both sides. They would say because President Obama wielded his powers...... corruptly to protect ... to be a- as an environmentalist to protect lands that didn't need protection under the Antiquities Act, 'cause the An- Antiquities Act does say it should be the smallest acreage possible to protect. So, now you get into stuff that I'm not an expert in around l- ... y- ... legal jargon and going back to things that were written in the 1930s. (smacks lips) But we get to a point where one side's saying, "Here is the Republicans trying to shrink down these monuments so that they can then go ..." uh, the companies that are ... can then go and lease these places for mining, but they can't currently do under protections as a national monument. The other side is saying, "We're trying to protect culturally significant lands, and these millions of acres need protected. They need protected for lots of reasons." So, you end up with those two sides talking.

    18. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        Now, it's easy to sort of make a hype- ... hyperbolic? Hyperbolic?

    19. BOBen O'Brien38:19

        Hyperbolic.

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:20

        I always wanna say that wrong.

    21. BOBen O'Brien38:22

        Got that backwoods in there.

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:23

        Hyperbolic, uh, argument one way or the other, right?

    23. BOBen O'Brien38:26

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        I mean, you could kind of-

    25. BOBen O'Brien38:27

        Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        ... exaggerate your position one way or the other.

    27. BOBen O'Brien38:30

        And it's being done that way.

    28. JRJoe Rogan38:31

        Yeah.

    29. BOBen O'Brien38:31

        It's been done that way.

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:32

        Are they drilling there now? Or doing-
11. 40:12 – 48:21

    Federal vs state control of public lands—and the ‘access’ semantic war

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:12

       You know, w- ... Public lands are the only place where I look at it and say, "No, you gotta leave that to the government. You gotta leave it to the federal government."

    2. BOBen O'Brien40:21

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:22

       "Don't, don't l- ... leave it to the states."

    4. BOBen O'Brien40:23

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:23

       It's the only place. I mean-

    6. BOBen O'Brien40:25

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:25

       ... when I, when I think about all the different things, like with, uh, like, legalization of marijuana, now they're gonna legalize psilocybin, apparently, in Oregon. They're talking about doing that.

    8. BOBen O'Brien40:33

       Really?

    9. JRJoe Rogan40:33

       I'm like, "Yeah, leave it to the states." They should be able to vote that in.

    10. BOBen O'Brien40:36

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan40:36

        They should be able to vote in, like, all the crazy laws you have in weird states, and some states have state taxes, some states don't. It's all good.

    12. BOBen O'Brien40:44

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:44

        That's all good, but when it comes to, like, federal land, the problem is if these states get into debt, and this is what people need to understand, they can sell it off.

    14. BOBen O'Brien40:51

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:51

        So if the ... if Utah is in debt, let's just ... I'm just not picking on Utah, but if they just, for some reason, they wind up in debt, which states do all the time, and then they sell off a giant chunk of land-

    16. BOBen O'Brien41:03

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:03

        ... to some oil company, now you can't camp there anymore. You can't ... And by the way, that's your fucking land.

    18. BOBen O'Brien41:10

        Land.

    19. JRJoe Rogan41:10

        And not just-

    20. BOBen O'Brien41:10

        You pay taxes on that land.

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:11

        Not just Utah. That's your land. You live in Arizona, you live in Florida-

    22. BOBen O'Brien41:16

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:16

        ... that's your land. You live in Massachusetts, it's yours. The land in Utah is the whole fucking all of us, the collected human race living on North America.

    24. BOBen O'Brien41:26

        But listen to this. Listen to this shit. It, it ... This is, like, there's a guy named Senator Mike Lee, out of the great state of Utah, which you rightly put that a lot of these things, uh, revolve around Utah for some reason.

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:38

        Do they what?

    26. BOBen O'Brien41:39

        They have a lot of ... The, the percentage of it, it's like something that 70% of their acreage is, is controlled by the federal government, that's why.

    27. JRJoe Rogan41:45

        Plus Mormons.

    28. BOBen O'Brien41:47

        (laughs) Let me ... I'll take the first point, you take the second point.

    29. JRJoe Rogan41:50

        Okay. Go ahead.

    30. BOBen O'Brien41:52

        That ... So, Senator Mike Lee comes out and says, right? This is like the perfect, the perfect way to spin this type of thing. (smacks lips) He starts ... He calls back to ... And Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah has also done this, uh, uh, call back to, like, the Sagebrush Rebellion and things like that. Calling back this ... Uh, s- ... saying that wilderness is akin to the European aristocracy because only a certain few can go there, 'cause you have to have two working legs that can get you up in the wilderness. Part of the basis of his speech he gave, and he's, he's given it several times, is that public land and wilderness specifically is k- ... is akin to the, uh, the European aristocracy because only certain folks can go there. If you would, uh, open up access, cut roads through it, then it would be for everyone. So, then it gets back to, like-
12. 48:21 – 53:45

    Why hunting participation fell: urbanization, Disney, and hunters’ own PR problems

    1. BOBen O'Brien48:21

       Yeah. Well, that's... I think there's some, there's some perspective, and I think hunting has a lot going for it around the fact that as urbanization happens, you know, as jobs, even for me, like as jobs become more prevalent in urban places and people have to travel from wherever they're growing up to, to these urban places and live so removed from wilderness-

    2. JRJoe Rogan48:40

       Yeah.

    3. BOBen O'Brien48:40

       ... so removed from sustainability, um, I think for a long time, 'cause hunting peaked in 1982. There was like 17.5 million hunters around that year. Um-

    4. JRJoe Rogan48:51

       Was that 'cause of Ronald Reagan?

    5. BOBen O'Brien48:52

       Yeah, so all re-

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:53

       Since he was president?

    7. BOBen O'Brien48:54

       It was, it was all-

    8. JRJoe Rogan48:55

       Reagan was president in '82, wasn't he?

    9. BOBen O'Brien48:57

       Listen, I'm-

    10. JRJoe Rogan48:57

        I think.

    11. BOBen O'Brien48:57

        I wasn't even alive, so let's not, let's not get-

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:00

        (laughs)

    13. BOBen O'Brien49:00

        ... (laughs) into that shit, dude. I don't know. Um, but like post World War II there was-

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:05

        Right.

    15. BOBen O'Brien49:05

        ... a rise in, in the modern hunter, modern sport hunter, however you would describe it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan49:09

        Right.

    17. BOBen O'Brien49:09

        There's the, there's this rise in 1982 and then a precipitous fall, right, from there until 2016. There's around 11 million hunters in this country. It's-

    18. JRJoe Rogan49:19

        It's a big drop.

    19. BOBen O'Brien49:20

        It's a big drop. And, and I will always say that like the three things that I think happened were urbanization, so people are getting removed from, they're getting moved away from having hunting in their lives on a daily basis. Not that they're anti-hunting in any way, they're just getting removed from-... from that thing-

    20. JRJoe Rogan49:38

        Mm-hmm.

    21. BOBen O'Brien49:38

        ... like, getting your meat on your own. They're removed from that. And a lot of times, they're even removed from, like, gardening and other types of-

    22. JRJoe Rogan49:43

        Sure.

    23. BOBen O'Brien49:43

        ... sustainable use things. The other thing is Disney. Like, m- Walt Disney's a nice man, but Bambi was not a good thing for our, our collective psyche around hunting.

    24. JRJoe Rogan49:54

        Not just Bambi, but essentially all cartoons involving animals. The animals were your friends.

    25. BOBen O'Brien49:59

        Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan49:59

        Even predators.

    27. BOBen O'Brien50:00

        Yes.

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:00

        Like, Yogi was your friend.

    29. BOBen O'Brien50:02

        He was your friend. (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan50:02

        He wore a tie. He, he was a gentleman.
13. 53:45 – 1:02:37

    Hunting scandals, baboons, and how humans assign value to animals

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:45

       B- well, the reality of baboons, and I have, um, I've studied the work of Robert Sapolsky-

    2. BOBen O'Brien53:51

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan53:52

       ... who's, who's a, a guy who's been on the podcast before. And it's, it's i- really pretty amazing stuff, what they found out about baboons that he studied actually, because he actually studied a baboon tribe that the, um, alpha males died off. They were all eating out of a poison garbage patch. Uh, there was a garbage patch that had sick food in it and, um, uh, just bad food. And the alpha males who got to eat first, uh, always k- chased everybody else. They wound up dying off.

    4. BOBen O'Brien54:18

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:19

       And for more than one generation, I think it was several generations, they became, like, really peaceful and calm, and they weren't the vicious, violent baboons that are the norm.

    6. BOBen O'Brien54:30

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:30

       And that it was... It was really... If you Google it, uh, Sapolsky studies baboons and I... And Radiolab also had a podcast about it, which is where I first heard about it. And then I, I read what Sapolsky wrote about it. But it is unbelievably fascinating. It shows how you can have this insane, violent animal culture and then the, the cunts get removed.

    8. BOBen O'Brien54:53

       (laughs)

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:53

       And when the cunts get removed, everybody chills the fuck out.

    10. BOBen O'Brien54:56

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:56

        It's really, really quite fascinating.

    12. BOBen O'Brien54:59

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:59

        But, um, baboons, for the most part... I mean, maybe he shot the nicest baboons ever. But for the most part, they're a bunch of baby-eating cunts.

    14. BOBen O'Brien55:06

        Well...

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:06

        And they'll steal your fucking kid.

    16. BOBen O'Brien55:07

        (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:07

        That little two-year-old that you love so dearly? That little motherfucker will be on a, uh, a porch somewhere. And if there's baboons around, they'll snatch him and eat his head.

    18. BOBen O'Brien55:14

        Well, that's like... When I was in Africa, I hunted Africa one time in my life. And w- the... Our PH and our guide both said, and our tracker-

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:21

        A PH is a professional hunter, so-

    20. BOBen O'Brien55:23

        Professional hunter. Right. The structure is like, there's a professional hunter, which is essentially your guide. And then there's trackers, which are n- usually native folks that, that help tracking the game and spotting the animals, things like that. But our, our PH, he was like, "If you see a baboon, shoot it." He's like, "We have are- we have lots of irrigation here to maintain this ranch and they rip it up and they're, you know, basically terrorists around, you know, coming around our camp, messing with our fires, messing with our food."... was like, "You see one, shoot one." And that was the instruction that I got. And I never, never did, but, you know, given that instruction from somebody like that, like, "Hey, this is a good thing for our landscape. Go and do it." Now, that's very far removed from stacking them up.

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:02

        Yeah.

    22. BOBen O'Brien56:02

        Like, stacking them up.

    23. JRJoe Rogan56:03

        Very far. And, and s- with a big smile on your face holding a bow.

    24. BOBen O'Brien56:08

        Isn't it ... It doesn't-

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:09

        Shot a baby ... Didn't he shoot a baby?

    26. BOBen O'Brien56:10

        There were some babies, like a whole family.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:12

        (Laughs)

    28. BOBen O'Brien56:12

        Dude, how ... You can't-

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:14

        Ooh, they don't-

    30. BOBen O'Brien56:14

        ... k- k- ... You- if I would have came to you and I said like, "Listen, Joe, here's my plan. What I'm gonna do is go to Africa and hunt."
14. 1:02:37 – 1:11:55

    Invasive species realities: kangaroos, rabbits, stoats—and cute killers

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

       I was listening to, uh, Rinella's podcast today, and they were talking about kangaroos in Australia.

    2. BOBen O'Brien1:02:43

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:02:44

       And that there was a guy on the show that had killed somewhere near ... Was it like 7,000?

    4. BOBen O'Brien1:02:48

       Many thousands, yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:02:50

       Thousands.

    6. BOBen O'Brien1:02:50

       Like his dad's, there was a ... What was it? Like there was a flood? I'll probably mess this up. There was some sort of weather event that pushed all these kangaroos onto his dad's ranch-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

       Yes.

    8. BOBen O'Brien1:02:57

       And his dad was going out every day and just whacking ad nauseum.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:03:00

       Thousands of kangaroos.

    10. BOBen O'Brien1:03:02

        Kangaroos.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:03:02

        And that they have to do this because they don't have any natural predators and they s- they'll just devastate landscapes.

    12. BOBen O'Brien1:03:07

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:03:07

        And we've played videos. Let's see if we can find one real quick. What if we play we get kicked off YouTube?

    14. GPGuest (fourth participant)1:03:12

        Maybe.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:03:13

        Probably, right? There's a video of like a swarm of-

    16. BOBen O'Brien1:03:16

        Oh, yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:03:16

        ... kangaroos in Australia. Dude, I have n- I had no idea.

    18. BOBen O'Brien1:03:19

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:03:20

        We were reading about it-

    20. BOBen O'Brien1:03:21

        You don't know.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:21

        About the overpopulation. I had no idea.

    22. BOBen O'Brien1:03:22

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:03:23

        It's- it's like-

    24. BOBen O'Brien1:03:24

        You don't know.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:24

        ... 100-pound locust.

    26. BOBen O'Brien1:03:25

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:26

        That's what it's like.

    28. BOBen O'Brien1:03:26

        I was reading, I can't remember the guy's name, but I was reading this paper-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:29

        Pull it up just-

    30. GPGuest (fourth participant)1:03:29

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:55:25