Joe Rogan Experience #1228 - Bari Weiss

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Four, three, two, one.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Four, three, two, one. (hand slaps) Hello, Bari.

   2. BWBari Weiss0:08

      Hi, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      And now we're live. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

   4. BWBari Weiss0:11

      Thanks for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      It's, uh, very fortuitous. Your timing comes right in the middle of this big hubbub about, um, this, uh, Native American elder and this young boy with one of those stupid fucking red hats on.

   6. BWBari Weiss0:25

      Yep.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      That... Y- y- would you have ever imagined that a slogan like "Make America Great Again" would be so divisive? That somehow or another, like, that-

   8. BWBari Weiss0:34

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      That would be... Like, "Make America Great Again." Well sounds like they just wanna make things great, like-

   10. BWBari Weiss0:38

       No.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       ... all positive. (laughs)

   12. BWBari Weiss0:40

       No.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       You know?

   14. BWBari Weiss0:40

       No.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       And a red hat with white letters. Has there ever been a time like that where a- a- an object, like a red hat with white letters, was so repulsive to half the country?

   16. BWBari Weiss0:50

       Yes. Well, I mean, some people see it as the equivalent of a white hood.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       Wow. I don't know about that. I think that's-

   18. BWBari Weiss0:58

       They do. No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       I- I- I believe they do.

   20. BWBari Weiss1:00

       They do. They believe-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       I believe they do, but I think they're being ridiculous.

   22. BWBari Weiss1:01

       ... that wearing it at... Wearing it... That a 16-year-old wearing that hat-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Mm-hmm.

   24. BWBari Weiss1:05

       ... sort of carries intense moral weight. That surely we know that a 16-year-old is not aware of all of the implications of wearing that hat.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Well yeah, but the problem with that is Kanye wears it.

   26. BWBari Weiss1:15

       Right. Fair enough.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       So, it doesn't really work.

   28. BWBari Weiss1:17

       I agree. I'm just saying-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       You know?

   30. BWBari Weiss1:18

       ... there are people who really make that argument.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Right. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      They believe in this moral structure for society that's laid down by what they believe is God.

   2. BWBari Weiss15:05

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      There's great people that are involved in the Catholic Church, but it's also the number one kid fucking organization in the world.

   4. BWBari Weiss15:10

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:10

      It's those two things, right? So these kids are a part of something that's way worse than smirking at a Native American with a drum. And in my opinion, being a... I've rem- when I was 16, I was a fool. I was a dumb person.

   6. BWBari Weiss15:26

      Were you a bully?

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      No. I was bullied.

   8. BWBari Weiss15:29

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      I was little.

   10. BWBari Weiss15:30

       Because you were small.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       I was small, and I learned martial arts when I was like 15. And I'm sure I was a dick to some people just because I could get away with it. I don't, I don't really remember it, but I was definitely-

   12. BWBari Weiss15:38

       Most 15-year-old boys and girls are in different ways.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       Yeah. I was... People are dicks. You're trying it out, you know? You don't even know how to talk yet.

   14. BWBari Weiss15:44

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       You're basically just learning words. And this kid, with this guy beating the drum inches from his face, he handled it, I believe, way better than I would. I, I don't think I would have... I don't... See, I don't know if-

   16. BWBari Weiss15:56

       No, you might have walked away. I mean...

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       I don't think so.

   18. BWBari Weiss15:59

       Really?

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:00

       No, I don't think so. Not when I was 16. Pro- probably when I was 16, also, I was competing. I was doing a lot of martial arts events. So maybe I would have kept it together better than I'm, I'm thinking I would have. But I definitely was a fucking idiot. And I was 16. You know, you just don't-

   20. BWBari Weiss16:16

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       And, and who knows what's going on that day? Who knows?

   22. BWBari Weiss16:19

       Of course.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       Like if you have anxiety about the future or your girlfriend broke up with you or you failed a test, or what else that is like b- b- bouncing around inside your head, overwhelming your ability to form reasonable thoughts.

   24. BWBari Weiss16:31

       Totally.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       16.

   26. BWBari Weiss16:33

       But, but let's assume, by the way, that everyone's initial... not everyone's, every liberal I know, okay? Everyone on the center and center-left and even the center-right's reaction to it was accurate. That he was a little asshole-

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:45

       Right.

   28. BWBari Weiss16:46

       ... that he's a racist, homophobic, transphobic, hates immigrants, and every single thing.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       Mm-hmm.

   30. BWBari Weiss16:52

       Does that deserve to be news?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Oh. …

   1. JVJamie Vernon30:00

      it supposedly is a- ... like, a troll.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      Oh.

   3. JVJamie Vernon30:03

      Yeah.

   4. BWBari Weiss30:04

      Oh, good.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      That makes sense.

   6. JVJamie Vernon30:05

      Yeah.

   7. BWBari Weiss30:05

      Very good, very good.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      He does- ... But this is the world where it's hard to find what's a troll and what's not. But I was gonna say that if I was cynical, I would say that if I was a person who's, like, far right-

   9. BWBari Weiss30:14

      Exactly. You'd put that up.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:15

       ... I would put that up-

   11. BWBari Weiss30:15

       Of course.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       ... just to fuck with these people, and it's ... We peop- ... I mean, it's basically like some CIA psyops type shit.

   13. BWBari Weiss30:22

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       You know what I mean? This is- ... This- ... But- but we're so through the looking glass here that, like, that post that I just read you, that's a real post about, "This guy is unredeemable. No one need ever forgive him." That's just as bad, in my opinion, as that poster saying, "Don't date white people." It's all crazy.

   15. BWBari Weiss30:39

       Oh, my God.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       We-

   17. BWBari Weiss30:39

       You're depressing me.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       We d- ... No.

   19. BWBari Weiss30:40

       No, no, no, no.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       Don't be depressed.

   21. BWBari Weiss30:42

       But Jesus-

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       But here's the thing-

   23. BWBari Weiss30:42

       ... you have to, like, fight ... I have to fight this feeling of despair.You have to. Like, I find myself fighting it because the basic, like, some, like, basic virtues, right?

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       Yes.

   25. BWBari Weiss30:53

       That used to be normal, right? Like civility, right? Civility has now become, for some people, a code word for, like, complicity with Nazism.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Right.

   27. BWBari Weiss31:03

       Like if you're c- if you're civil and you believe in civility and you believe in, you know, treating people decently and with giving them the benefit of the doubt, like that, that word itself has become a code or a signal in a negative way.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       Mm.

   29. BWBari Weiss31:17

       Empathy. Like, humil- even doubt. Even saying it, "I don't know." You know? Uh, uh, i- just these basic virtues seem to have been l- like swept away.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Well, it would be…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      viewpoint is bad. It's not even that socialism is bad. I've been thinking a lot about socialism lately, in terms of, like, what is the point if, if we get to a certain point and then our s- our hea- our heart stops beating and we, we die, uh, and you, you left behind $18 billion to your kids because you were the ultimate capitalist and you went hog wild. That's, that's a fool's path. That is a nonsense path. Like, why did you do that? Like, why didn't you try to use that money, this insane amount of wealth, and have this massive impact on, on the populous? Why, why didn't you try to, uh, uh, figure out some way-

   2. BWBari Weiss45:41

      Well, it would be your choice to.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:42

      ... for your engineer? Right, it wouldn't be a choice to. But what if the same-

   4. BWBari Weiss45:46

      And it, and it can be your choice to be Bill Gates right now.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:48

      But what if this b- Bill Gates is doing that-

   6. BWBari Weiss45:51

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:51

      ... in a lot of ways, with some of the money. He's got a lot of fucking money.

   8. BWBari Weiss45:54

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:54

      You know, if he throws a million here or there, it really ain't shit for him. I mean, he's got, like, $90 billion, whatever it is. But the point is that things like the fire department, we agree, this is a socialist thing, right? The, we, we're all chipping in.

   10. BWBari Weiss46:08

       We have public utilities.

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       Yes. We have public utilities. We have, uh, b- you know, people that, Parks and Recreation, people that, uh, Department of Fish and Wildlife, and, you know, uh, the, the sheriffs that-

   12. BWBari Weiss46:19

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       ... p- patrol our national forests. Like, we all chip in to pay for these things. We all agree these are important things.

   14. BWBari Weiss46:25

       Well, one of the things that was so interesting about Australia is that in certain ways it's a more ... You know, it's thought of d- as sort of a macho culture, maybe more s- masculine, a little bit more conservative than here generally. And yet, the left has won there on so many of the major issues that we're fighting, we're killing each other over now.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       They're very good people.

   16. BWBari Weiss46:45

       Universal healthcare.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       Yeah.

   18. BWBari Weiss46:47

       Mandatory 401k. Nine th- it's like a $18 minimum wage. Pensions, four weeks of vacation a year. Like ...

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       I think they get maternity leave as well, like mom maternity leave.

   20. BWBari Weiss46:57

       Oh, yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:59

       Um-

   22. BWBari Weiss46:59

       It's just, like, so many of the things that here are up for grabs, they already solved.

   23. JRJoe Rogan47:02

       I think we have to take two things into consideration. One, um, that they have a small population.

   24. BWBari Weiss47:08

       Small and homogenous.

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Yes, and it's an enormous place. You're dealing with a place as large as the contiguous United States of America, but there's only 20 million people.

   26. BWBari Weiss47:15

       Oh, I'm aware because when they-

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       Less.

   28. BWBari Weiss47:16

       ... they were like, "It's crowded in that restaurant." And I was like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:19

       Right.

   30. BWBari Weiss47:19

       ... "You mean I don't have to wait for an hour to get in?" Like, (laughs) they have no c-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:53

   But I do know…

   1. BWBari Weiss1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      But I do know from people that have gone there, like Abby Martin, who, who came back with some pretty horrific stories, I think there's a lot of terrible shit going on. There's a, uh, a lot of awful violence, and there's a lot of despair on the side of the Palestinians. And I don't, I, I don't know who's to blame for that, but many people blame the Israelis. They blame the Israelis for treating the Palestinians as if they're in this one area of the world that's essentially a large prison.

   3. BWBari Weiss1:00:26

      Well, lots to say about this, but I think one of the main problems that we have in the way that Israel is covered is that if you have a camera lens and you're only looking at a tiny piece of land, right, you're only looking at Israel proper, the West Bank and Gaza-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

      Right.

   5. BWBari Weiss1:00:45

      ... Israel, to some extent, is the Goliath in that situation. But if you zoom out your camera just a little, you see that Israel is literally surrounded on all sides by genocidal regimes, like in the form of Hamas in Gaza, whose charter blames the Jews for fomenting the French revolutions, the Russian revolutions, both World Wars, and says that it wants to kill all the Jews. That's what ... That's the government of Gaza right now. I spoke to a mother, um, who fled Gaza recently, okay? And her family's house was just destroyed. Who was it destroyed by? Hamas, not Israel. You never hear those stories. So I'm just saying it is a very complicated politics, but when you see people obsessively focusing on this one state and the crimes of this one state to the exclusion of actual dictatorships in the world who are killing their own people-You have to be suspicious of that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

      You do have to be suspicious. And you do have to be aware of their position in the world, surrounded by Arab states. You- you do have to realize that they are ... you know, they're- they're alone out there.

   7. BWBari Weiss1:01:57

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

      You- you also ... I do wonder, what is the motivation for so many people focusing on Jews? What is it? Like, what do you think it is, as a Jewish person? What do you think the motivation for this kind of racism and discrimination against Jews, and why is it tolerated? Why- why can someone like Louis Farrakhan tweet that Jews are termites, and his Twitter account stays up?

   9. BWBari Weiss1:02:21

      Well, it's the oldest hatred in the world, right? A lot of it-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:24

       Is that what it is?

   11. BWBari Weiss1:02:25

       No, no, no. You're asking me why is it still with us? It's like the mystery of history.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:29

       Right.

   13. BWBari Weiss1:02:29

       Like, that is- that is deep. I mean, that is something that goes back to the New Testament.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       Hmm.

   15. BWBari Weiss1:02:34

       Okay? The Jews were blamed in the Book of John and Mar- I mean, we could go to Matthew, for the death of Jesus. Their role in that story, at least according to some of the books, is that they convinced the most powerful empire at the time, the Roman Empire, in the form of the governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, to kill the son of God. That becomes sort of a template for the antisemitic conspiracy theory. There's- there's a confusion about what antisemitism is, right? It's not just a hate. It's not just, like, this hate of a group. Racists perceive themselves as punching down against a group that's lesser. Antisemites perceive themselves as punching up-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:03:15

       Hmm.

   17. BWBari Weiss1:03:15

       ... against a secret cabal of wily operators who secretly control the levers of power. That is the canard of antisemitism and that begins with this group that's able, somehow, to get the Roman Empire to kill Jesus. Now, the Catholic Church disavows this in 1965, uh, which was, you know, an enormous historical event. But that template is still there, and you see it play out, right, in who- who led us into the war in Iraq? Ah, it was the Jews of the Bush administration. You can see it play itself out-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:48

       Hmm.

   19. BWBari Weiss1:03:48

       ... all over the place. And right now, in the demonology of current a- contemporary antisemitism, Israel has sort of been made into the Jew among the nations. You're not allowed to say anymore ... It ... Like, the old school antisemitism, right? Like, I grew up in a place where there were some country clubs where Jews couldn't go into them. That, frankly, that's not dangerous. What's dangerous is the kind of antisemitism that says, "You know, this one state in the world of all of the almost 200 states? That's the one that doesn't have the right to exist. That's the one that should be dismantled." That's actually dangerous to Jewish lives right now.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:04:21

       It is, um, it's an unusual group in that it is both a religion and a tribe.

   21. BWBari Weiss1:04:26

       Yes. It makes us very hard to understand in the contemporary landscape, 'cause we are not just a religion.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:32

       There's nothing else like it-

   23. BWBari Weiss1:04:33

       Nope.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:33

       ... 'cause most Jews that I know do not practice Judaism.

   25. BWBari Weiss1:04:37

       Right, and yet they-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:38

       But they consider themselves Jews.

   27. BWBari Weiss1:04:39

       Yes.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04:39

       Yeah.

   29. BWBari Weiss1:04:39

       Because we were a peoplehood before we were-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:41

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:52:18