Joe Rogan Experience #1238 - Brian Redban

1. 0:00 – 3:20

   Quake 4 nostalgia, LAN battles, and the return of old gaming addictions

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (sniffs) Four, three, two, one. (imitates light bulb turning off) Hey, fella. What's going on?

   2. BRBrian Redban0:10

      Hey. How have you been?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      How was it like to get that quick Quake fix?

   4. BRBrian Redban0:13

      Oh, my God. Uh, uh, it's so amazing how fast it came back to me, like the addiction of playing that game over and over again.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (sniffs) It's a real problem.

   6. BRBrian Redban0:20

      Yeah. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Yeah, we've been going crazy. Jamie's been fucking me up too.

   8. JVJamie Vernon0:24

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      So today-

   10. JVJamie Vernon0:25

       Have mercy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       ... I got lucky that he had to help you get his shit together.

   12. JVJamie Vernon0:28

       Three early kills, I saw that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Dude, he's been fucking me up.

   14. BRBrian Redban0:31

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Not, not nice.

   16. BRBrian Redban0:32

       And y- you don't really play Quake, right? You just... It's from-

   17. JVJamie Vernon0:34

       Yeah. I, uh-

   18. BRBrian Redban0:34

       ... playing a lot of Fortnite and stuff?

   19. JVJamie Vernon0:35

       I tested myself a little bit 'cause I knew this was gonna happen eventually, so I had to get some practice with some rockets at, at some point.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Mm.

   21. JVJamie Vernon0:42

       And, yeah. But it helped... It honestly helps to warm up with Quake to play Fortnite or play PUBG or something like that 'cause the quick whatever it is of aiming, you don't do it that much. So, like, when you're doing it three times, you've already done it 55 times playing Quake just in one round.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Right.

   23. JVJamie Vernon0:54

       So like your little interaction you have with someone with a shotgun, you usually win, so.

   24. BRBrian Redban0:58

       (sighs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Quake is so fast-paced.

   26. BRBrian Redban1:00

       Yeah.

   27. JVJamie Vernon1:00

       We're playing Quake 4. It's like, whoa.

   28. BRBrian Redban1:02

       It's like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Jesus Christ.

   30. BRBrian Redban1:04

       I haven't played that game in maybe 15 years.
2. 3:20 – 5:09

   A Fortnite concert as a live in-game “event” and how online play culture changed

   1. JVJamie Vernon3:20

      Uh, this weekend, on Saturday, they had a concert in Fortnite.

   2. BRBrian Redban3:24

      Yeah, Marshmello.

   3. JVJamie Vernon3:25

      It was, it was crazy.

   4. BRBrian Redban3:26

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      What does that mean?

   6. JVJamie Vernon3:27

      It's, it's, it's tough to explain, but they had... It's called an event. What they're calling it is like an event. So at two o'clock, everybody showed up at the game, and this fucking concert started. It, it was like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:39

      So all the avatars were together like in one gigantic room?

   8. JVJamie Vernon3:42

      The normal mode, you, you played it just like normal, and then all of a sudden, like two minutes to go, they took everybody's guns away.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:48

      Whoa.

   10. JVJamie Vernon3:48

       And like you all just sort of congregated around the stage. And the music started, the show started, they started doing interactive things with all the avatars and everything. And like 10 minutes later, it just, it cut off.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       Jesus Christ.

   12. JVJamie Vernon3:59

       But it turns out he was actually live. He, he was tweeting about it all day 'cause... for promotion and whatnot. But people were asking like, "How'd you do that? How'd you work it out?" His voice was going live to everyone who was playing. It was probably millions of people.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       Whoa.

   14. JVJamie Vernon4:11

       Yeah.

   15. BRBrian Redban4:11

       You know, it's just normal DJ voice stuff, like, "Hey, jump guys. Hey."

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:16

       Was it?

   17. JVJamie Vernon4:17

       He was just like, "Hey, guys, come on." Like, he wasn't interacting too much, as much as he probably does during a normal set-

   18. BRBrian Redban4:21

       Right.

   19. JVJamie Vernon4:21

       ... when he's playing to 20,000 people in Vegas or whatever it is.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:24

       So when he does it, he probably has like a really good microphone too. Like it's not like the microphone that you talk shit on, right?

   21. JVJamie Vernon4:29

       Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, they had something else set up. Yeah.

   22. BRBrian Redban4:31

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:31

       When we first started doing Quake, no one... You had to type.

   24. BRBrian Redban4:34

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:35

       That's how goofy it was. You had to ty-... You couldn't talk shit. Like now people are talking, like they're all in a group together talking shit, right?

   26. JVJamie Vernon4:41

       I have a voice changer now too.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       But doesn't the talking shit get in the way? Like if you hear people talking, it gets in the way of hearing sounds, like sound cues.

   28. JVJamie Vernon4:49

       Yes. You tell your teammates, "Shut the fuck up."

   29. BRBrian Redban4:50

       You can turn that off also.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Oh, you can?
3. 5:09 – 9:39

   Why the Jack Dorsey interview blew up: Joe’s post-mortem and what he’d do differently

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:09

      So we should talk about this, uh, the Jack podcast 'cause everybody got so u- upset about it. And let's clear up a few things. First of all, the guy seems to be willing to talk about anything. It's not that I didn't wanna talk to him about those things. It's just he was being, um... I wouldn't say he's evasive, but he was basically just saying what he knew based on the company policy. I didn't know what else more to ask him. And people felt like I didn't press him hard enough. And he, to his credit, reached out to me and said that he would offer to do another one to ask more questions.

   2. BRBrian Redban5:45

      That's cool.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:45

      And I said, "That'd be awesome." So I said... Well, this is the thing that people seem to be upset about. They seem to be upset about very specific cases where people showed, um... Like if, if people were right-wing and they were posting things, they were banned. Whereas people who are left-wing or maybe, uh, people of different races were allowed to post-... racist things or more offensive things and even doxxed people and didn't suffer any consequences for it. This is the argument. My problem is I don't spend enough time reading this stuff. I don't know. Like, this is like, when people get banned, like Anthony Cumia's a friend of mine. I don't really know why he got banned. I don't know what happened.

   4. GUGuest6:27

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:27

      I know there was that incident with that, that woman that punched him and he wound up getting fired, he was drunk and he said a bunch of really stupid shit on, in, in, in Twitter and then later apologized for it. But I don't know if that's what got him fi- uh, kicked off of Twitter. But he's my friend. So, what I'm saying is, all these other guys that have problems, I don't know what the fuck happened, man. I'm busy. I really don't. I, I don't know. I don't even know what got Alex Jones kicked off, which is why I asked him, because that was one of the last platforms for Alex Jones, was Twitter. But something got him kicked off. Their take on it was that they never kicked him off before because he didn't violate their terms of service. And another thing that's very encouraging that Jack said, and I know it's, it's fun to get mad at things. It's fun to get mad at him, it's fun to get mad at me for it. I get it. I'd probably do the exact same thing. I totally understand it. But one of the things that he said was that he believes that the ability to communicate on the internet through Twitter or through these platforms is a basic human right. That's how he looked... Like, I said, "Do you think of it like, uh, a network like NBC?" Like if you're on NBC, they can decide what's on and what's not on. Or do you look at it like a utility? And he specifically said that he looked at it more like that. That he thought it was a basic right. That's very encouraging. He also said that he would bring on whoever it is in his team that's responsible for these things. So, we could hear from the actual person who decides who's getting banned and why they're getting banned and w- what, what is, what's the decision-making behind all these things, so we can go over all of them. Um, I didn't think the podcast would create such a controversy, but that's probably poor prior planning on my part. Because my thought about it was, hey, I wanna... Like, it's fucking crazy to be running Twitter. Like, it's crazy that this thing exists that the President uses it as a platform. I wanna talk about the dude who created this and what is this like to have this thing evolve to become what it's become? Because it didn't start out that way. It started out like fun shit, like, uh, @BrianRedBand's going to the movies. You know what I mean? Like that's what people used it for. And then along the way, it became this global m- method of distributing information where people use it in war zones, man. They use it to, to tell people where attacks are, they use it for all kinds of crazy shit. It's like a, it's a really powerful but strange medium. I didn't think about getting into the weeds with all the very specific people that got banned. I just wanted to find out why they ban people. That was my take on it. I know there's a lot of conservative voices that have never been banned. I don't think Steven Crowder's been banned. I don't think Cernovich has been banned. Has he been banned? There's qu- a bunch that have not been banned. Right? So it's not like they ban all right-wing voices. So what is it? I don't know what it is.

   6. GUGuest9:22

      I think it's what he said, people reporting the tweet and then d- somebody's looking at it going, "Well, this does violate our, you know, policy."

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      Right.

   8. GUGuest9:31

      And maybe, you know, all these people that, that got banned violated the policy somehow, you know? It's probably as simple and cut clean as that, you know?

4. 9:39 – 18:55

   Bias, racism, and double standards online: when enforcement feels ideological

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:39

      It's, it's, it's not that simple, right? Because they make their own policies. And it's also not that simple if people are allowed to say similar things that are very racist and, and vast generalizations about white people, which seems to have been the case in at least a few instances, where people reported that people said fucked up things about white people but there was no repercussions. And (sighs) you know, that's where the argument becomes these people are more oppressed and so the white people are thought of as the oppressor, so you have this white privilege thing that people like to use now as a reason to, to decide to like silence someone, like check your white privilege. That's a, that's an interesting thing that's happening. So, if, if there's this genuine movement where people think that it's okay to say things about one race, whether you like it or not, that's racism. And if you're allowing that from any one side and not allowing it from another side, it seems hypocritical. Look, it's very distasteful. The idea of racism against Black people in this country is very distasteful to everybody, almost everybody who's not a racist, right? Because of the history of this country, because of slavery, because of all these things, it's a different connotation. But if you just l- allow people to say terrible things about any race, it's racism. You're g- you, you are allowing a, like a predetermined attitude about a race. Some people have done this. They have made generalizations, generalizations, r- uh, racist statements about white people. The, the really weird thing that people are throwing around these days is that you can't be racist against white people because racism is about power and influence. It's about using your, your r- and the b- that Black people are not powerful, that white people are powerful and the white people are the ones who are oppressed, so it's impossible to be racist against them. That sounds like horse shit to me. (sighs) I'm not buying that. That doesn't make any sense. It's not beneficial to anybody to generalize. This is what we gotta get in our head. It doesn't matter if you're Black or if you're white or if you're whatever the fuck you are, it is not beneficial to generalize, to take a p- a person out of the group that we, we think of as just human.... individuals. Y- you have to be an individual. I mean, it, I acknowledge the fact that people look different, they have different heritageses, they have... Heritageses?

   2. GUGuest12:11

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:11

      They have different h- different ancestry, they have different occupa- ... There's different parts of the world. There's all these differences. But a- at the end of the day, the only way we're all gonna get true equality and true kinship and comradery as human beings is if we recognize we're just all a human being. That's it. There are very big differences in the way we look and the, the things we like. That's cool. But as soon as you s- you can say shitty things about white people or white men, (slaps table) (smacks lips) that leaves everybody who doesn't fit that description guilty in this weird way, or presumed guilty because of a racist statement. That's all it is. It's not good for anybody. I get it that it's different than racism against Black people in America, uh, a country that was built e- essentially in a lot of ways by slavery. There's a war for slavery in this country. I mean, that is a crazy reality that it's not your responsibility, it's not mine. I didn't do it, you didn't do it, but it's real. Therefore, as a person who's aware of hist- uh, h- history, the history of this country, racism against white people seems different. But it still sucks to be racist against, uh, races against Black people, rather. It seems different, but it still sucks to be racist against white people. It sucks to be racist against Puerto Ricans. (slaps table) It's not good. It's not good for anybody. It's ... That's what we have to understand about this social media thing. What actually did happen? And what is happening? And why is it happening? And if it's just some social justice warrior ethic that you're not debating, it doesn't seem fair. It seems like there should be a conversation about this. And I bet they're super reasonable, really intelligent people, and it's possible they can come to a- a- a- a good place that we can all agree to. That is possible. I'm not a cynical person. I'm sorry. I know a lot of you are like, "Fuck them. They just want this, they just want that." Guess what? They already have it. They have more money than they could ever spend. And my dealings with Jack as a person, he seems like a very nice guy and a very smart guy and, and a very empathetic guy. I just think he's in a crazy unmanageable situation to be running something like Twitter. Yeah, and there's probably people that did something that they shouldn't have done in terms of silencing people and moving things around. It's probably happened. It's a weird thing when people have influence over people. And there's, there have been videos that have been proven where executives from a bunch of different social media corporations have talked about how to silence certain voices, how to push down certain voices. Um, this is something that needs to be discussed. Like, is this, uh, a, as a policy as a whole? Is it, you know ... Is it, is it because you, you think you're pushing the right message? Like, as soon as someone thinks they're pushing the right message, but they don't have a ... there's no debate about that, right? They just decide our way is the right way. And they're pushing this, and there's a radical opposition to that message from half the country. Like, the, like ... But you, you're like, "No, no, no, but this is the one that's in cont- controlling the narrative. This is the one that's in c- c- control of social media." It's this far left-leaning ideology, and the other part gets pushed aside. That's a very bad situation for all of us. Because there has to be conversation, there has to be debate. 'Cause if there's not, it just shores up the differences between two people, and they fucking hate each other even more. I did not take that into account, and I fucked up. That's my mistake. That is my mistake when I made that podcast. But I didn't take it easy on him because I didn't want to discuss those issues. I just didn't think enough of it in advance. I'm not as involved in it as other people are. I'm aware that there's censorship in social media. I'm aware. M- my, my ideas going into that conversation were more about how insane this method is for distributing information. For the people that have been banned and for the people that were fans of the people that were banned, I can understand why they'd be upset at me. It has nothing to do with any preconceived notions that I had, it's just how the conversation took place. That's all it is. And if you felt let down by that, you didn't feel like it was as ex- extensive enough, I'm more than willing to do it and go further into it, and we're going to. And Jack offered it, and he's gonna bring someone else who's gonna explain things to us. I think this will be very beneficial for everybody. I also think that there should be a road to redemption. I think if you've got something that's important as Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, i- if you're not stealing someone's stuff, like, you know, u- using copyrighted music or something on, on an Instagram page where you get banned over and over again for doing it but you keep doing it, if it's not something like that, if it's, if it's a, an ideological difference, if maybe you crossed a line that they, they decided was a line, you should be able to work your way back. You should ... There should, there should be a way where you can sign up again.

   4. GUGuest17:14

      You mean like get a new email address? (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:16

      I don't mean that, man.

   6. GUGuest17:17

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:17

      I mean be the same person.

   8. GUGuest17:18

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:18

      You should, you should be able to be the same person. There should be a way.

   10. GUGuest17:21

       But there should be different levels, definitely.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:23

       Don't ... Well, well, we ... Everybody ... People fuck up, man. They, they fuck up and they make mistakes. Right? And people also grow. I mean, there's this, uh, guy that was on Sam Harris's podcast, um, Christian Piccolini I think is his name. He was a fucking white supremacist, a full-on white supremacist. And now, he is the exact opposite. He's, he's like this very progressive guy who gives speeches on the, the dangers of racism and that, and the ideo- ideology, how it caught up with him. Now, if, if he got banned when he was a young man and making terrible decisions and then became a better person, shouldn't we give a, a guy like that a chance to get back on a platform?... right? And without making a whole new screen name. Like, maybe it would be ... Um, and I, I don't think there's anything wrong with the anonymous model. There's some things that are really good about it, right? Like, peop- like, Jack even talked about this, that people can report news stuff and not worry about fear of retribution. That they can, you know, they can whistleblow and not worry about fear of retribution. If someone's life is on the line, but they're trying to provide a service to the general public, or they're trying to give people information that may be- might even save lives, but could put them at risk, especially in, like, third world countries or war-torn countries, that could be a huge problem if you have to post, you know, Brian Redban. If this is the only way you can get this information out, you have to use your whole name. But it'd probably be better off for everybody if people

5. 18:55 – 21:53

   YouTube comments “vanishing,” flags, and the hidden mechanics of platform moderation

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:55

      had a, a, a way of communicating with each other like it's just person-to-person. And I think the, the real problem is when people try to engineer these conversations. And this is another conversation about YouTube. People have said that we're deleting comments on YouTube. We're not deleting anything. We haven't deleted any comments. I don't know how it works. I don't read them. I'm sure people say mean things. Have a good time. The thumbs up, thumbs down thing, look, we, we, we don't have to have that on there. You don't have to have comments on there. YouTube gives you the option to have comments on and to have the thumbs up, thumbs down. I'm not taking those off. G- have a good time with it. But we're not fucking with that. There's something that they're doing that's not, it's not, I post at 3:41 and Jamie posts at 3:42 and this is the line of the comments. It's not like that. They've got their own way of doing it. The question is, why does YouTube do it? What's their, what, what are they trying to do? Uh, is it, are they trying to block out spam? Are they trying to block out hate speech? Are tr- are they trying to engineer conversation?

   2. GUGuest20:03

      Are you talking about comment order?

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:04

      Comments on ... No. Do- comments disappear. They go away.

   4. GUGuest20:08

      Uh, w- a lot of times, it's automatic. If somebody flags a comment, th- it will just take the comment away until it's, like, looked over upon.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:16

      Only one person?

   6. GUGuest20:17

      Yeah. On, I think on YouTube, that, that happens quite often.

   7. Yeah, it could probably be as l- little as one or two people, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:22

      So, that is probably what's happening to all you folks that think your comments are getting deleted. No one's deleting shit.

   9. GUGuest20:28

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       Look, I'm, I'm not attached to what I do in the sense that I'm unwilling to look at what I do wrong. I try to look at everything that I do wrong, including this. So, if you were upset at this podcast because you thought somehow or another I sold out because I didn't ask him any more questions, I just asked him the questions I wanted to ask. I understand you have more ques- more questions. And I do, too. I, I have more questions, too. Especially upon seeing people's reaction to it, and upon, you know, making myself pay more attention to all these various stories. Uh, Matt sent us a, a list of them. Some of them are really fucking crazy. There's some crazy things people have said and not gotten in trouble for. Whereas other people said things that really weren't that bad and got in trouble for it. Why is that? That's a good question to ask. So, we'll, we'll concentrate on that. We're just gonna work out a date. So, my humblest apologies to all of you. Don't- I'm not trying to let anybody down. I always try to do my best. That's it. And, and also, here's another clear one. No one tells me what to do. There's no one, there's no secret person behind the scenes. If I fuck up, it's because of me. It's my fuck up. I should have prepared more. I should have thought about it more. But I didn't realize, like, how upset people would be.

   11. GUGuest21:44

       I think you did a great- I thought it was a great interview, and I didn't even think of that. I thought you kind of touched on it a little when you were talking about Alex Jones, and I think that was like, "Okay, you know, this is what happens with-" Yeah.

6. 21:53 – 26:32

   Trolling, 4chan pranks, and the weaponized like/dislike culture

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:53

      Well, it's a very specific group of people that are upset.

   2. GUGuest21:55

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:55

      It's r- right wing guys.

   4. GUGuest21:56

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:57

      It's, it's a lot of American flags, a lot of Pepe the Frogs. (laughs)

   6. GUGuest22:00

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:00

      It's alt-right people. Which, look, man, easily could have been me at many points in my life. Easily. Especially being a troll online. You know, if you're working some fucking job and you're making Pepe the Frog memes and you're fucking with people, I get it. I get it. It's one of the things I like about the internet. Like, I don't, I don't wanna be comfortable. I'm li- I don't, I don't wanna be comfortable all the time. I want, I want a little bit of chaos. I like the fact that there's people, like, they're like, that fucking ... I was upset that that Radiolab podcast, they took it down, where they were fucking with Shia LaBeouf, with those guys from 4chan. And the way they took it down was they contacted Radiolab and said, "Those guys are white supremacists and they support white supremacy." You know, and th- and you just, you know, you made these people that are awful, terrible people, that write terrible things, you, you, you gave them props. But the thing about something like 4chan is, no, you might read some terrible things. But you gotta realize you're also reading terrible things from anonymous people that are working at their jobs most of the time, and they're trying to fuck with people's head. And they're trying to get people upset. They're, they're, they're having a good time fucking with people. If you want to take them as that- that's like them, like, giving, giving a talk to a dear friend, or them giving an affidavit in court, well, you're missing the whole thing. It's entertainment. Like, half of the whole reason why they're doing it is entertainment. They didn't go steal Shia LaBeouf's flag and go, and go right into the camera and go, "Fuck Shia LaBeouf," by using coordinates from photographs of th- the sky where they figured out where the fucking, where the, the constellations lie and then drove around honking their horn so that they could locate where it was by using the webcam and listening to how close they got to it. I mean, it's fucking genius shit. And it got taken down just by this accusation of them being racist. But the thing about a forum like 4chan or Reddit or anything, you have so many fucking people. You have thousands and thousands and thousands of people. If you just have 10 cunts posting-... jokes about Black people. That's all you need to ruin the reputation of thousands of people. So for someone to say that everybody that was like, "Fuck Shia LaBeouf," is some racist and white supremacist, that's a cheap way out. That's a cheap way out. I bet more likely, it's some dude who's bored, and he's sitting in front of his fucking computer, and he works all day, and this is where he, he escapes. He escapes and, and types, and writes things, then checks them later, and then goes back to it and types things and checks. And it keeps him sane in this stupid fucking cubicle. That's a lot of the people. So they pulled that whole amazing podcast down because of that. Look, what he... The Shia LaBeouf thing was ridiculous. "He will not divide us." Come on. Stop! Stop. We get to chant that everywhere. It's funny what they did. They mock something. That's their way of mocking it. Nobody got hurt. They made it out like it was this, like, awful crime they committed on this, this am- amazing person who's just trying to change the world. No, no, they, they pranked Shia LaBeouf, and they said, "Fuck Shia LaBeouf." Is, is that how you say it?

   8. JVJamie Vernon25:11

      Shia LaBeouf. (laughs)

   9. GUGuest25:13

      LaBooth?

   10. JVJamie Vernon25:13

       LaBeouf.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       LaBeouf, whatever it is.

   12. JVJamie Vernon25:14

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:14

       Shia LaBeouf.

   14. GUGuest25:15

       I think it's better.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       I'm sure he's a nice guy too. He probably did something silly. (door slams) It's a little silly. "He will not divide us." He wi-... They... What they did was funny. It's a funny reaction. I, I like that. I like that. Like, this is a... It's an important part of this thing. If it wasn't for people like that, there would be no podcast. Now, the like-to-dislike ratio that you see on YouTube videos is fascinating, right? Because it's weaponized, and they're thinking about trying to ban that now, because so many people use it to fuck with people. I hate to say this about you folks, but every time we have a chick on here, they get fucking tortured.

   16. GUGuest25:52

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       The like-to-dislike, right? Like, it's, it's ruthless. Except Rhonica Patrick. Except Rhonica Patrick.

   18. JVJamie Vernon25:57

       Right. But it's just... It's weaponized. It's the... They're just going to dislike it because-

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:01

       'Cause it's fun, though.

   20. JVJamie Vernon26:02

       ... 'cause it's had thumbs down.

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:02

       'Cause it's fun. 'Cause it's fun. Look, it's also fun to throw a rock at a window. It's fun. Yeah, I mean, and some of them probably didn't even watch the podcast-

   22. JVJamie Vernon26:09

       And it-

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:09

       ... so thumbs down.

   24. JVJamie Vernon26:10

       ... gives them a l-... Disliking it gives a little bit of power in the algorithm of de-ranking it and-

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:15

       Yeah, when but-

   26. JVJamie Vernon26:15

       ... thinks you affected something.

   27. JRJoe Rogan26:17

       And people who liked it, there's probably a lot of them that didn't even watch it.

   28. JVJamie Vernon26:20

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       It's a button you can press.

   30. JVJamie Vernon26:21

       Yeah, yeah.
7. 26:32 – 30:19

   Shadowbanning, trending manipulation, and who gets to curate visibility

   1. GUGuest26:32

      There's, there's a lot of cool interesting questions that... To ask him. Like I always thought shadow banning was a real thing, but I think he came out and said that that's not a real thing.

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:40

      Mm.

   3. GUGuest26:40

      But I've, I've, I've seen it in my... You know, in person where I'll type somebody's name in and usually it's supposed to come up on the, you know, searches, but it doesn't. You know, and-

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:49

      Well, shadow banning is a w-... If it is a real thing, like, that's another one. Like, shadow banning for what? Like, if it... If it's not something that is... If you're, you're not doing something that you could get kicked off the platform for, right? You're not kicking them off. You're just pushing them-

   5. GUGuest27:05

      Down.

   6. JRJoe Rogan27:05

      ... some weird place. But if you're doing that, like, why are you doing that? Like what...

   7. GUGuest27:09

      Because, like, uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan27:10

      What would be the justification?

   9. GUGuest27:12

      From the ones that I have seen, there used to even be a website that you could type in somebody's username to see if they were shadow banned, so that's kind of interesting. But, uh... Like, a lot of porn stars are shadow banned 'cause they don't want... If you're looking up Christina Applegate, they don't want Christina C-... You know, Applebottom or something like that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan27:26

       Mm.

   11. GUGuest27:26

       You know what I mean?

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:27

       Yeah.

   13. GUGuest27:27

       So it's, it's like they're... I, I, I still believe that's a thing, but I'm pretty sure he came out and said it wasn't-

   14. JVJamie Vernon27:33

       Sure.

   15. GUGuest27:33

       ... a real thing.

   16. JVJamie Vernon27:33

       Technically, shadow banning Justin Bieber from the trending topics, right? I mean, they-

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:37

       Right.

   18. JVJamie Vernon27:37

       ... have publicly said that. That's not a shadow ban.

   19. JRJoe Rogan27:39

       Right.

   20. JVJamie Vernon27:39

       That's a, a str- strategy.

   21. JRJoe Rogan27:42

       Well, no. They were kind of forced into it-

   22. JVJamie Vernon27:43

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan27:43

       ... because Justin Bieber was so... His fans trend so hard, they hashtagged the shit out of that thing and they just took over the trending.

   24. JVJamie Vernon27:51

       It's probably happening for other equally popular celebrities too, like Taylor Swifts and Beyonces-

   25. JRJoe Rogan27:56

       Kanye.

   26. JVJamie Vernon27:57

       ... and all this, yeah.

   27. GUGuest27:57

       Yeah, yeah.

   28. JVJamie Vernon27:57

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. GUGuest27:57

       You're probably right. You're probably right. So, whatever they're doing at YouTube with comments and whatever they're doing with Twitter, the... Here's the real conversation, right? The real conversation is: do we want that? Do we want them to curate? Do we want them to decide whose YouTube videos you could subscribe to and who is g-... I mean, do they unsubscribe people? Is that real or is that a glitch?

   30. JVJamie Vernon28:24

       Most... Yeah, who knows on that?
8. 30:19 – 45:11

   Meme empires, content theft, and influencer marketing after Fyre Festival

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:19

      Well, it's also, there's, coming from another platform is giant, but it's also, all it really takes is one person deciding that whatever the fuck you did was funny or weird or crazy, like that Cashew Outside girl.

   2. BRBrian Redban30:31

      Yeah. Well, there's, that girl's, you know, managed by the same people that own TMZ.

   3. JVJamie Vernon30:35

      That-

   4. BRBrian Redban30:35

      And that's why you see it on TMZ every day.

   5. JVJamie Vernon30:37

      Yeah, I was gonna bring up-

   6. BRBrian Redban30:38

      (laughs)

   7. JVJamie Vernon30:38

      ... if you watch the Fyre, the Fyre Festival documentary, there's a, an explanation of, they show how they sp- uh, they spread the v- act- the Fuck Jerry guys, the marketing team spread that with the orange picture. It was a coordinated event over hundreds of different social media accounts.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      For her? For the Cash me Outside girl?

   9. JVJamie Vernon30:54

      No, for, and then-

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       For Fye Fest?

   11. BRBrian Redban30:54

       This is a s- yeah, for the Fyre Festival, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:56

       Fyre Festival. Keep saying Fyre.

   13. JVJamie Vernon30:56

       For, to catch everybody's... Because there are a team of people, there are agencies that have all these influencer accounts.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JVJamie Vernon31:02

       They pay them. They don't have to accept the money or d- accept the offer, accept the campaign, but oftentimes they do.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:09

       So it's like a talent agency?

   17. JVJamie Vernon31:11

       100%. Yeah. Yeah.

   18. BRBrian Redban31:12

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       Interesting.

   20. JVJamie Vernon31:12

       They need to share a new person, you know, launch the next-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       Oh.

   22. JVJamie Vernon31:14

       ... the next voice and it's like, "Oh, here's a new song. Here's a new movie." It's just a new way to spread stuff.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       What the fuck bro?

   24. BRBrian Redban31:19

       Yeah. It's pretty cool watching how many people are unsubscribing to F- Fuck Jerry and, uh, Fat Joe though. That's int-

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       Yeah, but are they? I looked at it the other day. It was just, they have like 14 million.

   26. JVJamie Vernon31:29

       They lost 500,000 in like a week end.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       Really?

   28. JVJamie Vernon31:32

       It's a significant amount.

   29. BRBrian Redban31:33

       Last time I looked-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:34

       Did they really?
9. 45:11 – 49:54

   Biopics vs. truth: Bohemian Rhapsody talk and Joe’s Foxcatcher accuracy rant

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      "You Make the Rocking World Go Round." That's a great goddamn song. I didn't see Bohemian Rhapsody, did you?

   2. JVJamie Vernon45:16

      I didn't see it either, no.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      Did you see it?

   4. BRBrian Redban45:17

      Nah.

   5. JVJamie Vernon45:17

      I don't think so.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:18

      What?

   7. BRBrian Redban45:18

      I heard it wasn't that good.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:19

      What the fuck are you guys talking about? I heard it was amazing.

   9. JVJamie Vernon45:22

      Did you?

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:22

       Yeah, I did. I'm a giant Queen fan though. I love them. That's my, uh, my number one cryogenic song when I'm in the cryo chamber is Dragon Attack. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do 'cause you gotta move around when you're in that 240 degrees below zero. It's hard to just sit still, do a little dancing in there.

   11. JVJamie Vernon45:40

       I read a, uh, he did a- Rami Malek I think is the, the actor's name that played him, Freddie Mercury.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       Oh, yeah.

   13. JVJamie Vernon45:45

       He did a really good job, but, uh, before it happened, Sacha Baron Cohen was sort of in talks for it, but he, he wanted to take the character in a different direction that no one was really comfortable with.

   14. BRBrian Redban45:55

       Ah, see, I would have rather have seen that.

   15. JVJamie Vernon45:57

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       No, man. What would he have done?

   17. JVJamie Vernon45:59

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       What was that? What does that mean?

   19. JVJamie Vernon46:01

       I don't know. I don't know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       See, that's a weird thing, man. You can't-

   21. JVJamie Vernon46:03

       'Cause it's been said too that to, to get spicy talk.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       But you can't just add stuff.

   23. BRBrian Redban46:08

       "My wife."

   24. JVJamie Vernon46:09

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       Yeah, you can't just-

   26. JVJamie Vernon46:11

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       It's not an art piece. Like, Bohemian Rhapsody, although it is an art piece, it's a documentary of a guy's life. Like, in some ways you're documenting it, right? Like, it's supposed to be his li- You can't make up things that never really happened or-

   28. JVJamie Vernon46:26

       Sort of. I forget what mo- But it's like a- it's the difference between, like, a biopic and an actual biography or a documentary.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:32

       Right.

   30. JVJamie Vernon46:32

       Like, it's...
10. 49:54 – 57:16

    VR boxing, haptics, and location-based VR as the near future of entertainment

    1. JRJoe Rogan49:54

       Yeah. Have you done the, uh, VR boxing game yet?

    2. BRBrian Redban49:58

       I haven't done the VR boxing game, but, but it looks cool. Like the rocky one, is that what it is?

    3. JRJoe Rogan50:02

       There's a whole bunch of them.

    4. BRBrian Redban50:03

       Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them.

    5. JRJoe Rogan50:03

       Dude, they're amazing.

    6. BRBrian Redban50:05

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan50:05

       It's cra- ... Like, a regular boxing game you're playing on TV is so stupid.

    8. BRBrian Redban50:09

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan50:09

       I mean, they're fun, but in comparison to a VR game? In a VR game, you're boxing.

    10. BRBrian Redban50:14

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan50:14

        You're, you see your hands in front of you. The guy's throwing jabs, you're slipping. You're, like, standing in front of him. You can catch punches with your hands. You can throw shots to the body. It's crazy. You get tired doing it.

    12. BRBrian Redban50:25

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan50:25

        Like, you could really get a workout doing it. It's amazing.

    14. BRBrian Redban50:28

        I need-

    15. JRJoe Rogan50:28

        This is it right here. This is what you would see.

    16. GUGuest50:30

        I think this is the new Rocky one, they just updated on-

    17. JRJoe Rogan50:31

        Oh, Jesus.

    18. BRBrian Redban50:32

        Yeah.

    19. GUGuest50:32

        Yeah, this is the one I found.

    20. JRJoe Rogan50:33

        Oh, Clubber Lang.

    21. BRBrian Redban50:34

        Mr. T is in it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan50:35

        Yeah.

    23. BRBrian Redban50:35

        Or is it just random guy with mohawk?

    24. JRJoe Rogan50:37

        Well, that's Clubber Lang. But look, look how jacked everybody is.

    25. BRBrian Redban50:40

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan50:41

        Can you imagine if people were really that jacked?

    27. BRBrian Redban50:42

        Wow. So...

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:45

        I mean, this is, so what is that, Drago?

    29. BRBrian Redban50:48

        I think so.

    30. JRJoe Rogan50:48

        And he's fighting, there's Drago versus Rocky. Yeah, but we can't see.
11. 57:16 – 1:06:47

    UFC reaction cams, unforgettable knockouts, and why combat sports hit different

    1. JRJoe Rogan57:16

       This seems like something that would be fucking amazing for the UFC, though.

    2. BRBrian Redban57:21

       Oh, yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan57:22

       I mean, this would be amazing.

    4. JVJamie Vernon57:23

       Yeah, you'd basically have your view.

    5. JRJoe Rogan57:25

       Yeah.

    6. BRBrian Redban57:26

       Except you'd... The cage.

    7. JRJoe Rogan57:27

       The cage would be in the way but there's gotta be a way that they could film through the cage. If they just had a camera in a reinforced position where it was far enough back behind foam that there's no way, um, it could im- interfere if someone crashed into it, but yet close enough that it could see through an actual hole, you could get the entire octagon if you did it with several, several different ones of those.

    8. JVJamie Vernon57:53

       They have... They had, or they had it, at least, that, like, it was gr- uh, this isn't it, I guess. But it was ground level, I think they called it the phantom cam, but maybe it w- had a different name.

    9. JRJoe Rogan58:00

       And it was VR?

    10. JVJamie Vernon58:01

        (clears throat) It wasn't VR. No. The UFC's used it a few times. They always try out things. They're, they're very experimental. They don't always show everything they're trying out, though, but-

    11. BRBrian Redban58:08

        Th- the problem with it-

    12. JVJamie Vernon58:09

        ... it'd be cool to try maybe one time.

    13. BRBrian Redban58:10

        ... i- ideally, you'd want it right in the middle, like, not above or too below, c- and it would have to have cam- 'cause it has cameras all around it, so, you know. That, that w- that's hard to do with the cameras, I guess, uh, without getting in the way of everything.

    14. JRJoe Rogan58:32

        Yeah. You would have to, uh, you'd have to find a good spot for it.

    15. BRBrian Redban58:36

        Put it on, uh, Bruce Buffer's head and let him just go to town.

    16. JRJoe Rogan58:39

        Well, they used to do that with Pride. Pride used to have, like, they would wear glasses with, like, uh, cameras next to the glasses and you'd get the referee vision.

    17. BRBrian Redban58:47

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan58:47

        It was crazy.

    19. BRBrian Redban58:48

        That's kinda cool.

    20. JRJoe Rogan58:49

        You'd see them, like, separating fighters and breaking it up and, and waving the fight off, yeah.

    21. BRBrian Redban58:53

        That's kinda cool.

    22. JRJoe Rogan58:54

        Yeah, it's pretty badass. Yeah. It's weird-

    23. JVJamie Vernon58:57

        Oh, here, here it is. It's, uh, I guess it's this little teeny Marshall Cam is what it's called.

    24. JRJoe Rogan59:01

        Mm.

    25. JVJamie Vernon59:01

        POV cam.

    26. JRJoe Rogan59:02

        Oh, that shit's pointed at me, man.

    27. JVJamie Vernon59:05

        That one?

    28. JRJoe Rogan59:05

        Sometimes. Yeah, there's one like that that's pointed at me.

    29. JVJamie Vernon59:08

        Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. I have seen that there.

    30. JRJoe Rogan59:09

        Yeah, that's... They use that sometimes when, uh, you know-
12. 1:06:47 – 1:38:25

    Twitter rules, ‘deadnaming,’ and the Alex Jones fallout: enforcement, truth, and redemption

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:06:47

       Dead stock. Dead stock. Oh, do you know what deadnaming is? Do you know what deadnaming is?

    2. BRBrian Redban1:06:51

       Is that a shoe thing?

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:52

       No.

    4. BRBrian Redban1:06:52

       No.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:06:53

       It's a new thing that's illegal on Twitter. This is something I wish I knew. I didn't know until after the podcast, but deadnaming is, uh, it's banned. So say if you decide tomorrow that ... to become a woman, and you're like, "I'm not no longer Brian. I'm Brianina." Uh, they'll be like-

    6. BRBrian Redban1:07:10

       Briana.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:07:10

       Briana?

    8. BRBrian Redban1:07:10

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:07:10

       That's what you're ... your thoughts too?

    10. BRBrian Redban1:07:12

        Of course.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:07:12

        Okay. So I'd be like, "Uh, okay, Briana, but you're still a man." And then boom, that's deadnaming. You can't call someone something other than their preferred gender. So, like, if they identify as a woman, but they're biologically male, you're not allowed to say they're biologically male.

    12. BRBrian Redban1:07:34

        Oh.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:07:36

        You're not allowed to call them a man because that's deadnaming. You're not allowed to call them, like ... Y- y- you couldn't call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce. If you called her Bruce, you would be deadnaming her.

    14. BRBrian Redban1:07:47

        But that's just, like ... That's not illegal or, I mean, like, you're not gonna get banned.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:07:50

        It's banned from Twitter.

    16. BRBrian Redban1:07:51

        Oh, it's a Twitter rule then?

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:07:52

        It is a new ... Pull ... Please pull that up.

    18. BRBrian Redban1:07:54

        (laughs) Oh, God.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:07:55

        I did not know this. I did not know this.

    20. JVJamie Vernon1:07:57

        I ... I searched it. It's been around for a while, but I'm checking the Twitter thing.

    21. BRBrian Redban1:07:59

        That's kinda weird.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:08:00

        Deadnaming's been banned for a while or the, the term-

    23. JVJamie Vernon1:08:02

        No, no, the, where the term has been around, yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:08:04

        I just found out about the term maybe a couple weeks ago. I'd heard the term for the first time. Somebody wrote deadnaming and I was like, "What? What is that?" And then I had a look it up. (laughs)

    25. BRBrian Redban1:08:15

        So ridiculous, all the new rules we have to deal with. (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:08:17

        Dude, uh, there's a fucking article-

    27. BRBrian Redban1:08:19

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:08:19

        There's an article that I was reading. Go ahead.

    29. JVJamie Vernon1:08:21

        I'm looking right at their terms of service. It's directly word for word in there.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:08:25

        Okay, where does it say that? Okay. Deadnaming of transgender individuals. Repeated or nonconsensual slurs, epithets, racist and sexist tropes, or other content that degrades someone. Okay. Well, hold on a second. Like, what does degrade someone? So if you g- ... If you contact me and say, "Hey bro, you're fucking short and you're not funny," that's degrading. (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:02:55