Joe Rogan Experience #1282 - Adam Conover

1. 0:00 – 1:30

   Why “Adam Ruins Everything” Works: Annoying People in the Service of Truth

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (sighs)

   2. Yes, uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      Is it good?

   4. NANarrator0:04

      Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. Go ahead.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      (laughs)

   6. ACAdam Conover0:08

      All right.

   7. NANarrator0:09

      Cut all this out, so-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      Right, right, right, right.

   9. ACAdam Conover0:11

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:11

       Hello, Adam.

   11. ACAdam Conover0:12

       Hey, thanks for having me, Joe.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:13

       Hey, thanks for being here, man. I appreciate it.

   13. ACAdam Conover0:14

       Of course.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:14

       I'm a, a giant fan of your show.

   15. ACAdam Conover0:16

       I really appreciate that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       I love the fact that it annoys people too.

   17. ACAdam Conover0:18

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       (laughs)

   19. ACAdam Conover0:19

       It really pisses people off. That's the goal pretty much, you know. I mean, I'm not the kind of person where I'm like, "Ah, if you're pissing people off, you're doing something right." But, eh, there's some truth to that, you know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       There's some truth to that. And also, the way you structured the name. I mean, I don't know if you came up with the name of it, but Adam-

   21. ACAdam Conover0:31

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... Ruins Everything.

   23. ACAdam Conover0:33

       I, I think I might have to give that to my, to my, uh, former boss, Sam Reich at CollegeHumor, might've, might've, uh... I think, uh, we, we came up with the, with the name together. He might've been the first person to say it, but, uh, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       It's perfect.

   25. ACAdam Conover0:43

       Thank you. I'm really... Uh, yeah, it like, lets you know, it lets you know that, hey, this is gonna annoy you a little bit. That like-

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       (laughs)

   27. ACAdam Conover0:48

       ... I'm gonna be telling you shit that you don't wanna hear that's gonna make everything a little bit worse, you know. But at the end of the day, it makes it better. It's an optimistic show at the end of the day, where-

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       Sure.

   29. ACAdam Conover0:56

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       Yeah, yeah. You, you give them the truth.
2. 1:30 – 2:09

   Episodes That Triggered Backlash: Formula Feeding and the Breastfeeding Stigma

   1. ACAdam Conover1:30

      People get upset with us for a lot of different reasons. We did one about how, um, uh, breastfeeding isn't, uh, better than formula feeding. It's, uh, you kn-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:39

      It's not?

   3. ACAdam Conover1:40

      Uh, no, they're both... Like, formula feeding is fine, you know. And if... The problem is formula feeding has become astigmati- stigmatized now.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:46

      Mm-hmm.

   5. ACAdam Conover1:47

      Um, and there's a lot of people who can't breastfeed or who, for medical reasons, you know. Uh, and, uh, uh, the fact is that formi- formula is like a scientifically proven wonderful way to feed a baby. And if, you know, someone's choice or need is to do that, there's no reason to stigmatize it. And we go through all the reasons that, that that's the case. And yeah, people get a little... You know, there's a lot of people who sort of have an ideology about that, you know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:08

      Mm-hmm.

3. 2:09 – 7:58

   The Trophy Hunting Paradox: Conservation, Money, and Uncomfortable Tradeoffs

   1. ACAdam Conover2:09

      And, uh, don't wanna hear the truth about it. Um, we did one about, uh, trophy hunting, uh, animals, about how... 'Cause people, you know, people get so mad, "Oh, look at this guy shot a lion," right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:19

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ACAdam Conover2:19

      And the truth is that, uh, in some countries, not 100% of the time, but in some countries, they are effectively using trophy hunting as a way to, to, uh, protect the animals. Because, you know, they're, that's how they're able to sort of like monetize, you know, in that place, and, uh, you know, get money coming in in order to protect the animals, and they're, they're very specific and strategic about it. And it can be part of a good, you know, sort of animal management, you know, strategy, and it's being used to some success, you know. Um, and yeah, people don't wanna hear that, right? It's still really hard.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:52

      Yeah, that's, that's a weird one to me, and I hunt.

   5. ACAdam Conover2:55

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:55

      Yeah, that, that, that, that, the whole, the whole lion and elephant thing.

   7. ACAdam Conover3:00

      (laughs) Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:01

      Like, ooh, that's a weird one. That, that-

   9. ACAdam Conover3:03

      Well, well, what they can do is they can say, "Okay, well, we've got these elephants. One of these elephants is an old male that's like killing the other elephants." Right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       Right.

   11. ACAdam Conover3:10

       And if we organize these hunts where you gotta pay half a million dollars for the right to even go in there, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:16

       Does that happen with old male elephants? I know at the... That was the issue with that giraffe, that-

   13. ACAdam Conover3:21

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       Remember that woman that had gotten in trouble?

   15. ACAdam Conover3:22

       I actually don't know that specific case.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       Yeah, there was a, there was a woman who got in trouble because she shot this really beautiful giraffe. It was really dark and unusually colored, and it was dark 'cause it was very old.

   17. ACAdam Conover3:32

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       And the older the giraffe, apparently the males get really dark.

   19. ACAdam Conover3:35

       Hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:35

       It was really cool looking. Um, but she shot it, and everybody went crazy on the internet because, you know, she was posing and smiling with this dead giraffe.

   21. ACAdam Conover3:43

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:43

       But apparently that giraffe had to be killed because it had killed at least two, maybe three young males, and it was no longer of a viable-

   23. ACAdam Conover3:53

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       ... breeding age. So they, they were in this situation where they didn't have the money to take it and bring it to a zoo somewhere.

   25. ACAdam Conover3:58

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       And the, they would have gotten money from having this woman come in and shoot it.

   27. ACAdam Conover4:03

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:03

       So that's what they did.

   29. ACAdam Conover4:04

       Yeah, that's sorta, that's sort of the idea, you know. Um, I mean, uh, one of the issues is, if you've got an area where, you know... S-... One of the problems is, you need to have a reason for the people who live in the place to care about the animals.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Right.
4. 7:58 – 10:50

   Viral Controversy: Debunking “Alpha Males” and the Dating Ideology Explosion

   1. ACAdam Conover7:58

      Another one people got really mad about, this is th- weirdly the one we got the biggest reaction to, um, and, uh, to the extent that I'm a little hesitant talking about it, 'cause it always starts a shit storm every time I do.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:08

      Vaccines?

   3. ACAdam Conover8:08

      Uh, no. Actually, we have not done a whole one on vaccines. Uh, but we really should, 'cause it's coming back.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:13

      Yeah.

   5. ACAdam Conover8:13

      I used to think that vaccines was, like, kinda done as a topic, and, like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:16

      Yeah.

   7. ACAdam Conover8:16

      ... we've gone through it. It is really, it is really back, and it is big. Um, but no, we did one on alpha males. We did an episode about dating. And we did one on how the idea of the alpha male doesn't exist in humans. Like, if you talk to any anthropologist, any biologist, any sociologist, right, and be like, "D- are d- are humans organized in a social relationship where there's alphas and betas?" They'll be like, "No, what are you talking about? This is an unscientific idea." Right? And we just did something laying that out in a, in the, in the context of, like, people who are, "Oh, my type is I like alphas," right? "Well, there's no such thing actually, you know, humans are some, you're dominant in some situations, not in others," right? Um, it's an overly simplistic way of looking at human relationships. And I thought that was a pretty simple, straightforward thing. I was like, "This is just a bit of pseudoscience that you hear people tossing out." And people went ballistic on the internet, because people have sort of, like, built a edifice of ideology in their minds about, like, "There's alphas, there's betas, I'm an alpha, this is what an alpha's like, this is what a beta's like."

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:14

      Mm-hmm.

   9. ACAdam Conover9:14

      You know? Um, and, uh, a-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:17

       Well, let's take away the words.

   11. ACAdam Conover9:18

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       They're, they're, they're clearly men who are more aggressive and athletic and dominant and more confident, and s- m- and then men who are introverted and shy and more nervous and anxious.

   13. ACAdam Conover9:30

       In-

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       And there's a scale.

   15. ACAdam Conover9:32

       In some, in some situations, you know. Um, but-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:34

       Social situations.

   17. ACAdam Conover9:35

       E- yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       And that's what we're talking about, right?

   19. ACAdam Conover9:37

       In social ... Well, uh, yeah, but your social situation could change based on what situation you're in. You know what I mean? Like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:42

       They could, but, uh, like, an athletic, confident male-

   21. ACAdam Conover9:46

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       ... is always going to be an athletic, confident male, and an introverted, anxious male who has problems with social anxiety is going to, uh, be the same.

   23. ACAdam Conover9:57

       Uh, uh-

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       That's that, that, that's who that person is.

   25. ACAdam Conover9:58

       Well, I, I don't think so necessarily. Um, but, uh, so when we're talking about alpha, when you're talking about alphas, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ACAdam Conover10:04

       Um, in animals, what is that? It's a social hierarchy, right? Um, when you're t-

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       In animals.

   29. ACAdam Conover10:09

       In, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       So let's take away that word. I mean, what y- b- what people are using to describe, when they're saying alphas and betas-
5. 10:50 – 17:51

   Evolutionary Psychology vs Culture: Attraction, Body Ideals, and ‘Common Sense’ Explanations

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:50

      It's not scientific, but it is true that women are hardwired to be attracted to confident, athletic men.

   2. ACAdam Conover10:54

      I don't, uh, uh, uh, well, I don't know if I agree with that. Um, but, uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:58

      Really?

   4. ACAdam Conover10:59

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:59

      You don't think that women look at, like, pro athletes and, like, big, strong, athletic men, and you don't think they're drawn to that for evolutionary reasons?

   6. ACAdam Conover11:09

      I d- no, I don't, actually. I, I think that p-

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:10

      Okay. Do you think that men are drawn to women with small waists and big hips and large breasts for evolutionary reasons?

   8. ACAdam Conover11:16

      Mm, (smacks lips) uh, you know, I think that's an easy ... I think what that is is that's an easy intuition to come to if you're, like, looking at the way people behave, right? But one of the things about evolutionary psychology is it's the most common mistake, to look at the way that people do behave and say, "The reason why beha- we behave that way is because evolution says that's the best way."

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:35

      Mm-hmm.

   10. ACAdam Conover11:36

       Right? That's their argument. For instance, I'll give you an example. That's the argument that was ... Arguments like y- like that were used, for instance, to justify slavery, right? That, like, "Oh, because, you know, m- uh, whites and blacks have this hierarchical relationship in American society, that's the way it was intended. That's how nature intended it to be," right? But, um, we can't-

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       B- but, but, but wait, but, but that's a giant leap though.

   12. ACAdam Conover11:54

       ... we can't, we can't make that a leap.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:54

       We're just talking about, like, the shapes of bodies.

   14. ACAdam Conover11:56

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:56

       Like, men universally are attracted to a certain shape of bodies. There's men that are attracted to different ones and do- they, they're-

   16. ACAdam Conover12:02

       Yeah, I, I don't-

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       Men vary.

   18. ACAdam Conover12:02

       ... think men are universally attracted to the same body.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       People vary, but that hourglass shape has been, throughout time, something that men are attracted to.

   20. ACAdam Conover12:10

       I think that hourglass shape is something, throughout our recent cultural memory-... that we tell each other that men are attracted to, right? That's when, th- that's when we're, that's what we're told from an early age to, uh, this, that, this is the sort of women that men are attracted to. And so a lot of men end up adopting that, right? But I don't think that deep down that's how men naturally are, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       Really?

   22. ACAdam Conover12:30

       Yeah. I read this gr-

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       Well, it's so, that, but that, that doesn't make any sense to me. That's so non-intuitive, 'cause-

   24. ACAdam Conover12:36

       But, well, I'm all about things that are non-intuitive.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       ... w- where do you think, but where do you think it started? Where do you think this, this narrative of men being attracted to women with large breasts and a small waist and a big ass, where do you think that started? Because this is, like, evolutionary biology has pretty much settled on the idea that the reason why is, uh, the large hips would indicate that the woman would be easier to, to give birth. Having large breasts and a large ass would indicate that she has, uh, she's, she's fertile and then she has a ample fat storage in the right places-

   26. ACAdam Conover13:05

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       ... if she's going to be pregnant and carry children. There's all these r- like, evolutionary biology reasons why people are attracted to certain things, and why a woman would be attracted to a tall, muscular, handsome man, good genetics, very strong and confident, can take care of her. All these things are based on evolutionary biology-

   28. ACAdam Conover13:23

       (sighs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       ... so I don't understand why you think these are learned, sort of cultural artifacts or something.

   30. ACAdam Conover13:27

       So my, my que- my question is, this is an assumption that we, the public, make about how evolutionary biology works, right?
6. 17:51 – 21:40

   Why Debunking Backfires: Identity-Protective Cognition and Internet Rage

   1. ACAdam Conover17:51

      Yeah. People got upset because there are so many people who... We talked about this later on the show. There's this idea called the backfire effect, right? Where when people are told something that they don't agree with, um, that when they, when they... Someone has told somebody a fact, when somebody is told a fact that contradicts, like, a really deeply held belief, it can often cause them to, uh, disbelieve it even when it's true, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:11

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ACAdam Conover18:11

      And fight back, fight back even harder.

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:13

      Yeah.

   5. ACAdam Conover18:13

      One of the reasons that happens is because of an idea called identity protective cognition. It's, um, if the fact that is being debunked is literally part of your identity, like, if it's something-

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:21

      Mm-hmm.

   7. ACAdam Conover18:21

      ... that you believe really, really deeply, it's incredibly hard for you to disbelieve it, right? The classic example of this is, like, you know, Sean Hannity do- Sean Hannity doesn't believe in climate change, right? Uh, uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:32

      Really?

   9. ACAdam Conover18:33

      Uh, well, you know what? Uh, I actually don't know that specifically what Seany- Sean Hannity thinks about climate change. So let's just say somebody who's made their whole career on climate change doesn't exist, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:42

       Okay.

   11. ACAdam Conover18:42

       All their friends are in the anti-climate change community, right? Uh, they met their wife at an anti-climate change fundraiser. You know what I mean? They make their money, they write a new anti-climate change book every year, right? Now, uh...... climate change is real, right? There's no evidence I could present that person with that is going to make them take the social risk of ending all their relationships, changing their whole life, right? Uh, because if they were to say, "Okay, you know what? Actually I'm convinced. Climate change is real," they would lose all their friends, their wife would leave them, they would lose their revenue stream. They can't possibly come to that conclusion, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:13

       Right.

   13. ACAdam Conover19:13

       And so they fight back so super hard, right? And so that's what ended up happening with that segment. There's a whole group of people who have built their whole lives on the idea there's alphas and betas, I'm an alpha, I'm not gonna be a beta, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       Mm.

   15. ACAdam Conover19:26

       Um, and so... And, and maybe that meant something positive to them, you know? Maybe they ha- were in a bad place in their life, and through this model of alpha versus beta, they started working out or they started, you know, improving themselves a little bit, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       Mm-hmm.

   17. ACAdam Conover19:39

       Um, and maybe they started acting a little bit more confidently, and now they're in a relationship, right? All those things can be true with the idea of alphas and betas and humans not being scientific, right? But so when I tell them that, they fight back really hard. They're like, "No, no, no, no, no. This is, this is real. This is real." You know? And so that video, which again, I had no idea that would be controversial, it got the most re- YouTube response videos.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       (laughs)

   19. ACAdam Conover19:57

       Got the most, you know-

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       (laughs) .

   21. ACAdam Conover19:59

       ... furious, uh, thing, uh, things from it. And the weirdest thing was people started to say, "This is political." Like, "Why is Adam Ruins Everything getting political?"

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:05

       Yeah.

   23. ACAdam Conover20:06

       I'm like, "I don't know what the hell they're talking about, but this is-"

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       How is that political?

   25. ACAdam Conover20:08

       I have no idea. I have no idea-

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:10

       (laughs) .

   27. ACAdam Conover20:10

       ... how it's political.

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:10

       Alphas and betas are now political?

   29. ACAdam Conover20:12

       I mean, uh, that's what people were saying. I guess, uh, I, I guess, you know-

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       I think-
7. 21:40 – 26:42

   Men’s Issues Beyond ‘Men’s Rights’: Loneliness, Friendship, and Mental Health

   1. ACAdam Conover21:40

      Well, and the problems that men have are different than the problems those guys think men have, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:46

      Yes.

   3. ACAdam Conover21:46

      Um, so for instance, we did a segment on, uh, stereotype... We did an episode on stereotypes, um, called Adam Ruins A Sitcom, where, uh, we talked about different, you know, we, we talked about stereotypes via, you know, sort of a, a cheesy '80s sitcom that had a lot of stereotypes in it. So you got the stereotypical Black kid, you got the stereotypical Asian kid, you have the ster-

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:03

      Did you have a gay neighbor?

   5. ACAdam Conover22:04

      What was that?

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:04

      Did you have a gay neighbor?

   7. ACAdam Conover22:05

      No, we didn't do that. Well, there's only three acts on the show, you know what I mean? I wish we could've done that and, and women and, and all sorts of things. But we, oh, we had a stereotypical dad, you know? Like a Home Improvement type dad, you know? And, uh, what we talked about is like those, uh... There are ways that men are being harmed by the sort of narrow idea of what a man is, you know? Um, for instance, uh, men have a very high, uh, suicide rate, right? Um, and, uh, specifically, uh, loneliness is a health problem for men, for like older men. Like take my dad, right? My dad's, uh, about 65. He doesn't have a friend. You know, I hope he doesn't hear this, but um-

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:45

      Really?

   9. ACAdam Conover22:45

      ... you know? Yeah, like he, he has like work colleagues. He's got my mom, you know, he's got me. He's got... I'm sure he's got people he's friendly with, you know what I mean? But he doesn't have a best friend, you know, who doesn't... who comes over to watch, you know, the Red Sox with him, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:57

       That's terrifying to me.

   11. ACAdam Conover22:58

       Yeah. And the thing is, loneliness is associated with early death.

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:02

       Yeah.

   13. ACAdam Conover23:02

       You know? And with disease.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:04

       Sure, sure.

   15. ACAdam Conover23:04

       Right? And like when you look at the way that we bring up men, men are socialized to not have close relationships with each other, you know?

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:12

       What? Really?

   17. ACAdam Conover23:12

       Yeah. I mean, like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       How so?

   19. ACAdam Conover23:14

       Well, like, uh, we talk about, uh, from an early age... We talked about this so briefly on the show, but we could've gone into a whole episode on it. From an early age, uh, uh, researchers have found this, that, uh, little boys when they're very young, uh, are very close with... form very close friendships that are physical friendships. They hug, you know, they'll kiss. They'll, you know, kiss on the cheek. You know what I mean?

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:34

       Yeah.

   21. ACAdam Conover23:34

       They'll have physical close friendships like that. And then they reach an age where that starts to become not okay, right? Um, where it becomes, "Oh, that's not how boys act." Right? And girls are still doing that with their friends. They're still holding hands with their friends, you know? They're still, uh, you know, having close relationships like that. And boys start to d- start to build a little bit of dif- distance, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       Mm.

   23. ACAdam Conover23:53

       And, you know, it's easy to say, well, when you're a teenager, that's 'cause the, the stigma against being gay and like we don't wanna appear gay. But it happens even younger than like kids would even have a notion of that, you know? So it really seems to be a deep down way that we bring up boys of like, "Hey, don't get too close to each other." You know what I mean? That's a little weird. It's just a little weird for boys to do that, you know? And we do that, we do that from a young age. It's very subtle. Um, and-

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:15

       It's very subtle, but it's universal?

   25. ACAdam Conover24:17

       Y- I mean, in America it seems to be, um...

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:19

       Yeah?

   27. ACAdam Conover24:19

       And, uh, you know, I, I, uh, y- I've even felt that myself. Like, I've often had an easier time having close, close relationships with, uh, women rather than men, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:30

       Really?

   29. ACAdam Conover24:30

       As friendships. Yeah, as friendships. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:32

       Man, I-
8. 26:42 – 39:28

   ‘Man Up’ vs Emotional Vulnerability: Where Toughness Helps and Hurts

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:42

      Do you think we still do that though?

   2. ACAdam Conover26:43

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:43

      Do you think people still put narrow expectations on what man, uh, men should, shouldn't be? Yeah.

   4. ACAdam Conover26:47

      I totally, I totally think they do. I think we might be lucky here in LA-

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:50

      Mm-hmm.

   6. ACAdam Conover26:50

      ... you know, because we can sort of like live any way that we choose.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:53

      Right.

   8. ACAdam Conover26:53

      I mean, you clearly live exactly how you wanna live, which is great, uh, uh, you know, uh, and, and I, I get to as well. Uh, but I think that, uh, you know, we're, we're lucky in that we're so self-actualized, you know what I mean? That, that maybe we face a little bit less pressure than, than, you know, your average joe across the country.

   9. JRJoe Rogan27:10

      Yeah. The, but I don't know of anyone who's putting pressure on men to not be friendly with other men. That seems so ridiculous to me. The, the, to, to d- deny comradery. Obviously in the military it's a huge aspect of military service is the brotherhood-

   10. ACAdam Conover27:28

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan27:28

       ... that these guys form with each other. And that's about, uh, you know, if you wanna talk about traditional male values, that's about as manly a thing as a person can do, right? Serve their country.

   12. ACAdam Conover27:38

       Very much so. Um, but are like men, for instance, encouraged to, you know, be emotionally vulnerable with, uh, with their friends, for instance? Like I think that's something that's like tougher.

   13. JRJoe Rogan27:49

       Don't do it. They're gonna bring it up when you argue.

   14. ACAdam Conover27:51

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan27:52

       (laughs)

   16. ACAdam Conover27:52

       So (laughs) yeah. And so that's, so that's the thing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:54

       (laughs)

   18. ACAdam Conover27:54

       There's a, there's a level of intimacy that we're, that we're like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan27:57

       Yeah.

   20. ACAdam Conover27:57

       And, and that's, sort of intimacy is what leads to long friendships, you know, that-

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:01

       Mm-hmm.

   22. ACAdam Conover28:01

       ... that re- that really, really last, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       It's a balancing act, I think, because I think there's, there is intimacy and then there's also guys who are just being a bitch.

   24. ACAdam Conover28:09

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:09

       And they, they need to learn how to man up. Like-

   26. ACAdam Conover28:11

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:11

       ... because both, both things are real.

   28. ACAdam Conover28:13

       Well, well, dude-

   29. JRJoe Rogan28:13

       Both things are real. It is real-

   30. ACAdam Conover28:15

       Yeah.
9. 39:28 – 44:56

   Comedy as a Social Hierarchy: Open Mics, ‘Alt Rooms,’ and Surviving Judgment

   1. ACAdam Conover39:28

      But, y- you know, when I think about in my, you know, when I was getting started in comedy in my, in my 20s, you know, um, the amount of time I spent worrying before I went on stage about how what I was gonna say was gonna come off, it was g- if it was gonna be cool-

   2. JRJoe Rogan39:43

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ACAdam Conover39:43

      ... or if I'd get made fun of by the other guys in my comedy group or by, like, the other people at the open mic, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan39:48

      Oh, really?

   5. ACAdam Conover39:49

      Like, I, I did, I did have that fear.

   6. JRJoe Rogan39:50

      Did you grow up at, you used to come up in alt rooms?

   7. ACAdam Conover39:52

      Yeah, y-

   8. JRJoe Rogan39:52

      They're the meanest motherfuckers.

   9. ACAdam Conover39:53

      They sure fucking are.

   10. JRJoe Rogan39:54

       Those super nerds-

   11. ACAdam Conover39:56

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan39:56

       ... trying to like, "Oh, super progressive," fucking mean.

   13. ACAdam Conover40:00

       Dude.

   14. JRJoe Rogan40:00

       So goddamn socially-

   15. ACAdam Conover40:02

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan40:02

       ... vicious.

   17. ACAdam Conover40:03

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan40:03

       Ooh.

   19. ACAdam Conover40:03

       No, t- especially just at the open mics in New York City, you know? It was a real-

   20. JRJoe Rogan40:07

       LA too, same deal.

   21. ACAdam Conover40:08

       Yeah, yeah. 'Cause there, there, there's no, like, organization. I didn't, I never set foot in a club 'cause I was like, "I don't wanna deal with anybody at the club thinking, 'Oh, I'm trying to get a spot or whatever.'" I was like, "I'm just doing bar shows, open mics, stuff like that." And yeah, there's no rules, so it's just social enforcement, and it's just people being like, "I'm the big dog," like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan40:25

       Yeah.

   23. ACAdam Conover40:25

       ... and people would, like, cross their arms during other people's sets or, like, say shit, and like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan40:29

       (laughs)

   25. ACAdam Conover40:29

       ... it really fucking sucked. And the only way I got past it, by the way, was to say, "I don't give a shit about what any of these motherfuckers think."

   26. JRJoe Rogan40:35

       Yes.

   27. ACAdam Conover40:35

       You know, and I know, "I'm gonna identify the people who I think are doing good work and who I think are funny, and then hopefully they laugh at me too. I'm gonna focus on that." But-

   28. JRJoe Rogan40:44

       But you should look at the people that are crossing their arms with amusement, 'cause all those people-

   29. ACAdam Conover40:49

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan40:49

       ... are fools.
10. 44:56 – 51:40

    When Comedy Meets Politics: Michelle Wolf, Colbert, and Late-Night as a Promotion Machine

    1. ACAdam Conover44:56

       Um, it was so cool. We met, like ... I was like, my second open mic, and it was like her third open mic. And we saw each other, uh, her and a couple of friends, I was like, "You guys are funny. You're funny." And she was like, "Yeah, we're going to this other mic. You wanna come?" "Yep, let's go." And then I've known her ever since. And then, like, to see her do that white horse cor- White House Correspondents Dinner-

    2. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       (laughs)

    3. ACAdam Conover45:13

       ... was like, I just felt all that history all at once. I was like, "This is fucking amazing," you know? I was so-

    4. JRJoe Rogan45:18

       What did you think when the president was tweeting at her? (laughs)

    5. ACAdam Conover45:21

       (laughs)

    6. JRJoe Rogan45:21

       I was like, "Damn, she got him on the hook."

    7. ACAdam Conover45:23

       I was like, "This is the best."

    8. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       Look at the wheel.

    9. ACAdam Conover45:25

       That's what a comic's supposed to do, you know? Like, the way-

    10. JRJoe Rogan45:27

        Of course.

    11. ACAdam Conover45:27

        ... that she pissed people off, that was such a beautiful, that was such a beautiful moment.

    12. JRJoe Rogan45:32

        Mm-hmm.

    13. ACAdam Conover45:32

        I loved it. She was so fucking funny and-

    14. JRJoe Rogan45:35

        It was great writing too.

    15. ACAdam Conover45:36

        It was great writ-

    16. JRJoe Rogan45:37

        It was funny shit.

    17. ACAdam Conover45:37

        Yeah, she wrote it. A bunch of our friends from those days, Anthony DeVito, Greg Stone, Dan St. Germain, I believe, helped to write jokes. And yeah, they were really funny. And guess what? Like, the crowd didn't want comedy apparently, but they got one of the best comics in the country, you know, who's like on the ... She's in her prime right now, and she fucking tore it up. She did her job better than they wanted, and they got pissed off about it, and it was beautiful.

    18. JRJoe Rogan46:00

        Did they really get pissed off? I think some people did.

    19. ACAdam Conover46:01

        They got so ... You, you ... Uh, did you forget? It was like a three-day news cycle of how much-

    20. JRJoe Rogan46:05

        Yeah, but people that-

    21. ACAdam Conover46:06

        ... everybody hated her.

    22. JRJoe Rogan46:06

        ... were there didn't get pissed off.

    23. ACAdam Conover46:08

        Some of them, they were like tweeting, like Maggie Haberman from The New York Times was tweeting like, "Oh, I feel bad for, you know, S- Sarah, uh, Huckabee," like, for the, for the, you know, light jab that she got about her eye makeup. (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan46:18

        (laughs) That was so-

    25. ACAdam Conover46:19

        Give me a break.

    26. JRJoe Rogan46:20

        ... nothing.

    27. ACAdam Conover46:20

        It was nothing.

    28. JRJoe Rogan46:21

        That was so nothing, and they were talking about, what did they say? She, uh, they, uh, appearance shamed? She appearance shamed her?

    29. ACAdam Conover46:26

        No, she didn't.

    30. JRJoe Rogan46:26

        What was the word they were looking-
11. 51:40 – 59:48

    The NCAA Money Machine: Paying College Athletes and the Real Cost of Football

    1. JRJoe Rogan51:40

       Do you ever feel c- time constraints, like in terms of like the subject matter?

    2. ACAdam Conover51:44

       Totally.

    3. JRJoe Rogan51:44

       The subject matter's like very, very involved?

    4. ACAdam Conover51:47

       Yeah, I mean, we try to do the most difficult topics we can. You know, we don't hold back from anything. Um, but the only constraint that we have is that the show, we've got 21 minutes, and then in b- we've got commercials, so we can only talk about something for six minutes before we have to move on, right? And so that's the, that's the only limitation that we have. Like the network will let us do anything. We've been on the show for ... We've been on the network for four years. The only time they ever killed a show was we wanted to do something about the NCAA, about how the NCAA shouldn't kill a- shouldn't kill, sorry-

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:17

       Jesus.

    6. ACAdam Conover52:18

       ... should allow, how they should pay athletes, right? Well, in the case of football-

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:20

       Yeah.

    8. ACAdam Conover52:20

       ... it is killing them.

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:21

       They should pay athletes. Thank you.

    10. ACAdam Conover52:22

        Yeah, yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:22

        We, we talk about that all the time.

    12. ACAdam Conover52:24

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:24

        I think it is one of the craziest fucking scams in, in all of money-

    14. ACAdam Conover52:28

        L-

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:28

        ... that college sports are-

    16. ACAdam Conover52:30

        It's unbelievable.

    17. JRJoe Rogan52:30

        They're making so much money off those kids.

    18. ACAdam Conover52:32

        When you watch those things, every single person's getting paid.

    19. JRJoe Rogan52:35

        Everyone.

    20. ACAdam Conover52:35

        You know, everybody's getting paid. The guy-

    21. JRJoe Rogan52:37

        Except the best players in the world.

    22. ACAdam Conover52:38

        The guy bringing water to-

    23. JRJoe Rogan52:40

        Yeah.

    24. ACAdam Conover52:41

        ... the s- the announcers are getting paid-

    25. JRJoe Rogan52:42

        Mm-hmm.

    26. ACAdam Conover52:42

        ... except for the players, right?

    27. JRJoe Rogan52:43

        It's so crazy.

    28. ACAdam Conover52:44

        And the guy who literally ... I'm blanking on his name, but the guy who created the system, right, who like formed the NCAA, later when he left, he compared it to plantation slavery. He was like, "This is like slavery, what I invented." You know? There's no justification for it at all. It is bananas. Uh, we wanted to do that topic for a college episode. We pitched that to TruTV. Uh, you know what airs on TruTV every March? (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan53:08

        March Madness?

    30. ACAdam Conover53:08

        March Madness.
12. 59:48 – 1:04:53

    Performance Enhancement and ‘Fairness’: Steroids, Altitude Chambers, and Arbitrary Lines

    1. ACAdam Conover59:48

       Performance enhancing drugs, man, are the craziest... The debate about that, we've never done this on the show 'cause I, I, so I'm not like, um-

    2. JRJoe Rogan59:55

       You should.

    3. ACAdam Conover59:56

       ... fu- fully boned up. I would like to. I've thought about it in the past. 'Cause, 'cause the, the divisions, it's like the rest of the drug war, right? The divisions we make between the things that are acceptable and not acceptable are so arbitrary, right?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:07

       Right.

    5. ACAdam Conover1:00:08

       So the example I always use is like, okay, why don't, why don't we like performance enhancing drugs? Not everyone has access to them, so they're unfair, right?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

       Mm-hmm.

    7. ACAdam Conover1:00:15

       They're bad for your health-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

       Mm-hmm.

    9. ACAdam Conover1:00:16

       ... and we think they're unnatural, right?

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

        Yes.

    11. ACAdam Conover1:00:18

        Okay. So-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

        Cheating too.

    13. ACAdam Conover1:00:19

        So yeah, their, yeah their-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

        They're cheating.

    15. ACAdam Conover1:00:21

        Yeah, well that's, those are the reasons-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

        It's not just their ente-

    17. ACAdam Conover1:00:22

        ... why we think they're cheating, right?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

        Yeah. But well it's also like-

    19. ACAdam Conover1:00:24

        But there's some drugs you can take that aren't cheating, right? Like you could take uh-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

        No, but unfair advantage is the reason-

    21. ACAdam Conover1:00:29

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

        ... why it's cheating.

    23. ACAdam Conover1:00:29

        Okay.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

        That's the primary reason.

    25. ACAdam Conover1:00:31

        So here, so let me give you a counter-example. Um, uh, for runners-

    26. NANarrator1:00:34

        Mm-hmm.

    27. ACAdam Conover1:00:35

        ... right, uh, for endurance athletes, like ma- I, I, I like running, I'm a shitty runner but I like it, I think it's a fun sport, um, so I follow it a little bit. Uh, so runners, endurance, you know the big thing is like how much your, how much oxygen your blood can hold, right?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

        Yeah.

    29. ACAdam Conover1:00:49

        If you train at a high altitude, then you can increase that, right? So there are these runners, the American runners, right? They live at a high altitude, they live super high up, you know, in Colorado or whatever, right? And then when they're not there, they train there all year round, they buy a place there. And then when they're not there, when they're competing somewhere else, they sleep in a chamber that simulates low altitude, right?

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

        Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 2:47:12