EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,119 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Three, two, one. And…
- JRJoe Rogan
Three, two, one. And we're back. What's up? How are you?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
We're back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hello. I'm good.
- JRJoe Rogan
So-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Nice to be back here.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when you first came here, you were thinking about running for president.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, you're out there.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
We're all in.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's happening.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you nervous?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it weird?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Not at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
None of it? Well, do you feel like this is like destiny?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
So how does it not feel weird?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I'm on a mission.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I'm on a mission. Uh, you know, there, there's a lot of issues I think we're gonna talk about about why I'm running for president, uh, but being out and connecting with people all across this country, bringing this message, um, really of, of ending these wasteful destructive, uh, foreign policies that have been so costly on the American people for so long, costly on our troops, costly on our veterans, ending these wasteful regime change wars, ending this new Cold War and nuclear arms race, and taking the trillions of dollars that we've been spending on these programs and, and that we will continue to spend if the status quo is allowed to continue, and investing those dollars back into serving the people in our communities, serving the people of this country, things like healthcare, education, infrastructure, uh, protecting our environment, clean water. There's so much that we need to do. We've got limited resources to accomplish that.
- JRJoe Rogan
These are my favorite things that you talk about. Um, my question is always, though, why do we spend so much time and money and at, at such a titanic human cost-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for these regi- regime ch- change wars?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you think is the cause? Like other than the obvious l- if, if we, you have a dictator that's in place, there's an obvious outcry like Saddam Hussein post 9/11.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- 15:00 – 30:00
It al- it also,…
- TGTulsi Gabbard
some tough questions and, uh, heard from him his perspective on what was happening and what he was, uh, doing in his country and took the opportunity while there to meet with religious leaders, college students, members of the political opposition, small business owners, um, you know, women who were working to, to start their own business to empower other women, Shia, Sunnis, Muslims, Christians, Catholics, people of all different religions. Uh, it is because of that and that meeting and my staunch opposition to regime change wars in Syria and in other countries that political opponents and others have chosen to try to smear me, my reputation, and my campaign, uh, and to label me as you said, "You know, she's a supporter of this dictator." Well, if that's true, then anyone who opposed the Iraq war is a Saddam Hussein lover, is a lover of dictators and loves Saddam Hussein. So if you challenge (laughs) their logic, you see how shallow it is and there's really none there and, and what's exposed is, um, their refusal to engage on the facts and to stand behind why they continue to put the American people through these costly regime change wars and why they continue to wage these wars that are causing incredible suffering for people in different parts of the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
It al- it also, when you're having these conversations which are incredibly m- incredibly important globally, when you choose to distort people's positions like this, you're not helping anybody.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
You, you're making the whole thing more confusing.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So for someone like me who's on the outside, (coughs) excuse me, and then has to watch all this go down, I, I have to go, well, why, why w- why do you have reasonable people that make inaccurate statements about someone because they feel like if you do not, i- if you don't refuse a meeting with Assad, there's something wrong with you, right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, d- to not want to be in the presence of this person-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, the, um, there's so much hypocrisy around this. You know, a lot of these people are the same people who applauded President Obama when he first ran for president in 2008 when he, I mean, he did, he caused some controversy at that time saying, yes, he would meet with the leader of Iran without pre-conditions, that he would meet with leaders of other countries in that pursuit of national security and peace.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
So why the double standard here that, okay, so in order to keep our country safe, in order to achieve peace, we're only gonna meet with our friends and people who we agree with. That's not how you accomplish that mission. That's not how you accomplish security and peace. It doesn't make sense.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's like a social media version of running the world.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. (laughs) Sadly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sadly. Now, had you ever met anyone like Assad before?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Um, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
What was that like?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No. Uh, he was eager to meet. He was eager to be heard, frankly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does he speak English?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Very well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. I think he was educated in Europe. Um, a dentist if I'm not mistaken. Uh, is in, in the med- maybe he's an eye doctor. He's n- in the medical field.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Um, and he was, you know, he was open to, to any and all questions that I had both about what was happening, uh, in Syria, uh, you know, Syria's relationship or the lack thereof with Israel.... a lot of the, um, turmoil that we're seeing in different parts of the Middle East of, of Sunni versus Shia, um, you know, chemical weapons being used, uh, you know, criminal acts being conducted, a whole host of these issues, how did, how, how, uh, the Syrian government is dealing with the, the Kurdish population in the northern part of the country, uh, what's going on in Turkey. There was, there was a number of things that, uh, you know, I, I asked and he answered and, and he shared his view and perspective. And, and really what, what came out of that was he's, um, he's very narrowly focused on his country and doesn't want other countries or other people coming in and, and, uh, meddling in their country and what's, what, what they're trying to accomplish, which is actually the same thing that I heard from his political opposition-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... when I met with them. These are some of the leaders who, who led the protests that, um, that kind of began this whole conflict in 2011, people who are deeply opposed to the Syrian government, some of whom have been held in captivity by the Syrian government. And they said, "There are constitutional changes we want to make. Yes, we would like to see Assad removed from government." That they don't want to see it done through military means or through other countries coming in and toppling their government. What they want to see is that change coming from the people of Syria saying, "Hey, this is the kind of leadership that we want for our future."
- JRJoe Rogan
I can imagine there's not a single country on Earth that wants us to invade and take over. I mean, it just seems like a bad-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... idea for everybody.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right. Nor, nor would we want that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Okay. We- …
- NANarrator
improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, 3.5 million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporation- corporations. Now, this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the federal government.We recognize the imperative need for this development, yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must car- guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. We-
- NANarrator
We should take nothing for granted.
- JRJoe Rogan
We ... Y- y- you could listen to the rest of the speech if you want to online, but it's very chilling.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause this is the sitting president leaving office, and this is what he wants to tell people.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And a soldier.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
He's a guy who had military experience. He's a guy who saw firsthand, wearing the uniform and then serving as Commander in Chief. And this was his final warning to the nation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Military companies are like most companies. They always wanna grow.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Companies seek infinite growth. They, they constantly seek b- better quarters every year. They wanna make more money than they did last year.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what they're doing. They're, they're in the business of making money. They're not just in the business of creating things. They, they're creating things for a profit.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're gonna have a little wiggle room, especially with politicians, with politicians that are in their pocket and they've spent millions of dollars helping them along the way.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna help each other.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this long history of helping each other.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That's right. That's, um ... I mean, you, you, you see that very directly through contributions that are being made, uh, to politicians by different defense contractors and the corresponding votes that are then taken. Uh, but you also see this corruption that's happening before our very eyes, uh, happening within places like the Pentagon, where you either have people in uniform or civilians who are working in contracting, for example, in the Pentagon, laying the groundwork for writing up these contracts, major multi-billion dollar contracts with these big defense contractors, and then lay down the uniform or you retire from service, either as a civilian or in the military, and then you turn around, leave that door, and walk into another door working for the very same contractor that you just wrote the contract for.
- JRJoe Rogan
T- yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
This is happening. This is what, this is what we need to change when we're talking about both campaign finance reform, but also reforming this kind of corruption and this revolving door that's happening in different parts of our government. You see it happening in Wall Street too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
The SEC regulators, people who are supposed to be regulating Wall Street, are coming from Wall Street and then going back to Wall Street to work for the very same companies that they were supposedly just charged to regulate. This is a big problem that we've gotta fix.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. There's a fantastic documentary on that, uh, called Inside Job.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know if ... Did you see it?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's amazing.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah. You know what's…
- JRJoe Rogan
social media sites.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. You know what's interesting about Renee? She worked for New Knowledge, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
I do not know.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I think she was a director for New Knowledge. Um, they, this company, New Knowledge, that the DNC has tapped as one of their, um, I don't know, disinformation campaign experts and cyber experts, was the very same company that created false accounts and pretended to be Russian bots in order to influence a US Senate election in Alabama.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I'd heard of that, right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
That, that's something that she was not a part of, but it happened before-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah, I don't, I don't know her-
- JRJoe Rogan
Her time. She was a director of research, it says.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
At New Knowledge.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Not
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's, but that's post this happening, correct? I don't know. She sent me an email about it. Yeah. I, 'cause I questioned her about it-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... after it happened.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I don't think she's full of shit.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I, I've never met her, but I know that that company-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... is one that is often cited as this, as a so-called expert and was a company that was cited, um, uh, to try to smear my campaign as somehow being a, uh, an engine for the Russians or something like that, which, which to me, again, just points to, well, let- let's look at, let's look at the ex- the so-called experts that you're citing and this company, New Knowledge, and the kinds of actions that they've been taking, the very same ones that they're criticizing others for doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a dirty world out there.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's a, it's a dirty world.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's the Wild West of the internet. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It is. Well, it's, it is a Wild West in the sense that, I mean, I think there should be regulation. Like, I mean, I don't think you should be able to put child porn everywhere, I don't think you should be able to dox people.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's like, where does that border stop?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Does anybody, the, the,…
- TGTulsi Gabbard
in the military, serving as a soldier, where, you know, I'm serving alongside people of all walks of life. As you know, every race, religion, ethnicity, orientation, everything, every one of us wearing that same uniform, serving that same flag that represents the American people with that laser-like focus on putting service above self. And that's what I seek to bring to the White House, to, to restore those values of integrity and honor, uh, and respect. To make it so that that White House is a beacon of light for the American people, to know that that White House belongs to them and represents them and their interests and their interests alone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does anybody, the, the, I mean, even a person like you who's on the outside, do you think anybody truly knows what it's like to run the country until they get in there? Do they, could, can you even have an idea of what it, uh, how impossible a task it is to be in control of the economy, the environment, the, the infrastructure, the military, our, our position in the world? To get, uh, uh, it seems like the most insane duty-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to require someone to run all those things-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to be aware of all those things, to be responsible for all of the successes and all of the failures.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Um, it's an awesome responsibility. There's no question about that. Uh, and I think it fulfills that, um...... that higher, that higher, that higher calling. That this is not about any kind of selfish interest. This, for me, is not about any kind of ambition that I've had. I've never had any kind of thought, "Well, I want to be president one day," or even, "I want to be a member of Congress one day." It's always been about, uh, how can I, how can I best be of service and how can I make a greater impact? And that's what I've seen throughout my time in Congress, where I've served on these committees. I've served on the Foreign Affairs and Armed Services Committees. I've been, been calling for and fighting for an end to these wasteful regime change wars, an end to this new Cold War and nuclear arms race. There's only so much I can do as a member of Congress, uh, to be able to serve as president and commander-in-chief. I know that I can make that kind of impact and see change in our policy that keeps our country safe, that moves us closer to that future of peace and prosperity. And that's where I hope to be able to make a difference.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you d- become president ... Or sh- excuse me. When you become president.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
There you go.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sorry. And you do get to change the way we spend money-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and stop spending money on these regime change wars, what would be the first thing you invested in in this country?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm. That's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
And how would you go about doing that?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That's a good question. I think there's, um ... I'd wanna give that some thought, because there are a whole host of, of challenges that we're facing. You know, I mean, healthcare is, is among the top of the list, and, you know, we've talked a little bit about that the last time I was here. Our crumbling infrastructure continues to be something that's not only just uncomfortable every time we're driving over potholes, it's actually, uh, threatening people's lives and well-beings. Uh, I was in Iowa a few weeks ago, and we visited this ... a few communities that were completely inundated and devastated by the flooding, um, that took place there, gosh, about three, three or four weeks ago now. Uh, many of them have not been able to return to their homes. We went and helped out one family. We were tearing down drywall and ripping up the floors, and underneath the wood and the floors, there was still, like, tons of water, uh, in place. And they were talking about how even with, you know, the aid from FEMA and s- and SBA loans, that they, they are unwilling to put a single dollar back into rebuilding their homes, because they're hearing from the government and the Army Corps of Engineers that it may take two to four years to fix the levees that broke down and caused that flooding. So, why would they go and try to pour their life savings back into rebuilding their homes when they could get flooded again in a year or in two years? Because we're not making the kinds of investments in our infrastructure that we need to make. Uh, so there's, you know, education. I mean, there's a whole host of issues, um, that I think we need to look at how we can best provide the resources that are necessary to improve those services, uh, to the American people, and also look at how, how we're doing business and, and fixing the problems that exist within those different agencies.
- JRJoe Rogan
W- there's always been a call to help countries in need in the world.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's always been a call for the United States to step in and, you know, and, and, and do something. But yet, there's problems in this country-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that are ... that never change.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's bad communities in this country that are impoverished and crime-ridden that have been the same way-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for decades. There was a former Baltimore police officer named Michael Wood who came on my podcast, and he was talking to me about the time when he was in the Baltimore Police Department. They found a piece of paper that was documenting various crimes from the 1970s for some one i- one of the years, from 1970-something. And it was the same exact crime in the same exact area that they were having problems with now.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Gosh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whether it's homicide, uh, narcotics, whatever it was, they were having the exact same issue in the exact same places. And then he realized, like, "Well this is ... there's no effort put to change this."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's no ... Uh, there's i- i- if you're talking about decades and decades and decades, why wasn't there, uh, money funneled into this community?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why isn't there some community centers that help children? Why isn't there an emphasis on better d- better education?
- 1:15:00 – 1:18:30
It's crazy. …
- TGTulsi Gabbard
that charge you to go to the beach.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's crazy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
So if I have no money in my pocket, you're going to bar me from going and putting my feet on the sand-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... and going for a surf in the ocean? Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's insane.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... that's just wrong.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's insane.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's wrong.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is wrong, right? I mean, I could see if you had a donation box to help people clean up the beach.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's all I could see.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Donations.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's it. I'll throw some money in there.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Or I mean, like, I'll pay-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... for my parking.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure, sure.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
But don't stop me from coming on the beach.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you can't do that.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Like, I'll catch a bus if I don't have any money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I'll catch a bus to the beach. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Poor people sh- y- you've got to, like, that's the whole reason we have these national parks.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
National wilderness areas. So anybody-
Episode duration: 2:34:47
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