Joe Rogan Experience #1297 - Phil Demers

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Oh. Hey, fella. What…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Oh. Hey, fella. What you got there?

   2. PDPhil Demers0:05

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      What is that, legal marijuana in your hands?

   4. PDPhil Demers0:07

      You want a closer look?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      You activist, you.

   6. PDPhil Demers0:10

      I'm such a radical, man. Uh, the streets are- are not safe when I'm out on the loose.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Are you radical?

   8. PDPhil Demers0:16

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      You seem like a regular guy.

   10. PDPhil Demers0:18

       Yeah, yeah. Regular guy, uh, with a irregular amount of stress.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       With the walrus right there.

   12. PDPhil Demers0:23

       Dude, you don't mind my putting it there?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       No, no, not at all. Of course. Yeah.

   14. PDPhil Demers0:26

       I'm so happy to come back and see it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       No, it stays on the desk.

   16. PDPhil Demers0:28

       Yeah, that thing's amazing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       This, uh, means as much to us as anybody, except for you.

   18. PDPhil Demers0:34

       Well, it's nice to see it. This is my, uh, this is my happy place. This is my safe place. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       (laughs)

   20. PDPhil Demers0:39

       I gotta travel across the country to be safe, but, uh, it's- it's certainly a pleasure to be here again. And Joe, I always have to thank you. Bottom of my heart, brother.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Uh, listen, brother, I thank you too. I was texting Whitney today, I said, "You're a hero." You're a legitimate hero. (clears throat) For people who don't know what this is all about, I'll give everybody the backstory. Um, Phil used to work at Marineland. He was an orca trainer, and he also trained a walrus named Smooshy. And Smooshy is still allegedly in captivity at Marineland, although there's no photographic evidence, but you're pretty sure she's still there?

   22. PDPhil Demers1:14

       I was told that she is still there and she's in good shape, and I'm hanging onto that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       Since you came on the podcast the first time, which was how many years ago now?

   24. PDPhil Demers1:23

       So six years ago, I think. That's 2013.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Six years. So he's been living this lawsuit life for six years, trapped in a lawsuit with a gigantic corporation with incredible amounts of money that's been trying to crush him. And, um, they've made up stuff. Well, tell me what's- what's happened. Give- give me your- your perspective on how it all went down.

   26. PDPhil Demers1:46

       So back in 2012, I made, I- I was forced to make a very difficult decision. Uh, I elected to speak out against the conditions of which, uh, Marineland's animals were living in. Um, I did so knowing the risks, knowing that Marineland was a litigious company, but I did so on account to the fact that the animals were suffering incredibly. Uh, before quitting, I had an agreement with Marineland that, look, I'm leaving ... this is long before I'd spoke out- I'd spoken out. I'm leaving, but, you know, we have to establish that I can maintain this relationship with the walrus because sh- I imprinted on her. It's important to stress that, that she thinks I'm her mom.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       She was a baby.

   28. PDPhil Demers2:27

       She was a baby when she came in, so she was wild caught, and you can imagine probably witnessed her mother get slaughtered. That's the, uh, that's the method of collecting babies, um, by the- by the captors in Russia. And, uh, so she comes in traumatic at the age of, we estimate about 18 months of age, which is pretty old, in fact, uh, for, uh, in our experience, Marineland's experience of- of acquiring these wild caught baby walruses. Um, and through a sort of traumatic experience with her that I was th- there with her, this anomalous thing happened where her brain circuitry opened up, and much like in the wild where in the case of herd animals, the babies, uh, become familiar with the mother's sound, scent, look, everything. All the senses are acute. They're- they're aware of who they, of where they are so that they can, you know, find each other amidst these thousands of animals. Well, this happened to her. So the brain circuitry opens, suddenly I'm imprinted on her. I wasn't prepared to leave Marineland unless it was of the understanding that I can continue to help her because historically, my relationship with her, uh, you know, had everything to do with her health and well-being. I quit with the understanding with Marineland this was to be the case. I'd been gone for a month. I come back unannounced. They don't want to let me in. They're hiding something. I get in, I see her. She's in terrible shape. I snap a few photos, I leave. Now, amidst this-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       When you say terrible shape, like, what do you mean?

   30. PDPhil Demers3:58

       She was emaciated. She was bone dry. She hadn't eaten in ... The, uh, my having been gone a month was the longest she and I have ever actually been physically apart. I'd been trying to wean my presence off of her so that other trainers could be able to maintain a- a healthy, you know, healthy diet for her, healthy, uh, lifestyle as best as possible.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   He went the distance.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      a very good tank. It's just that, uh ... It just ... It wasn't as well-constructed. It also wasn't nearly as expensive. It just-

   2. PDPhil Demers15:08

      He went the distance.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      He went the distance.

   4. PDPhil Demers15:09

      He went for it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      And he still keeps k- ... It keeps coming over here. "I've gotta change things. I've gotta ... We're upgrading. We're doing this." (laughs) It's like he's always-

   6. PDPhil Demers15:14

      Good for him, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      Always-

   8. PDPhil Demers15:15

      He's trying to enhance the experience for everyone. I mean, why not?

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Yeah. He's always trying to make it better. He's the front of the line. And when I first started, uh, working with him, like when I first started having him on the podcast and, and I hired him to build me a tank and all that jazz, like, there was no tanks. There was ... It was real rare that you'd find tank centers. Now they're fucking everywhere, man. They're everywhere.

   10. PDPhil Demers15:37

       Well, I'll say this. The experience I had in his tank versus the one that I ... There's a local place, uh, f- from where, uh, where I'm from, uh, was hands-down a different experience.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       Yeah.

   12. PDPhil Demers15:46

       Because he really isolates you there-

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Mm-hmm.

   14. PDPhil Demers15:47

       ... whereas this, this was, like, a pod that they bought and installed in a room. I mean, it was great, but-

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Well, his is super insulated-

   16. PDPhil Demers15:53

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       ... so there's no fucking noise getting in that thing.

   18. PDPhil Demers15:55

       And he gave me the tour, the whole backstage tour.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       Yeah.

   20. PDPhil Demers15:57

       I was all back there checking shit out. I was like, "Wow, man."

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       It's wild, right?

   22. PDPhil Demers15:59

       "This is ... Yes, he's got a serious, uh, complex there."

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       It's hard to appreciate, but when he first started making tanks like that which, like, again, I think I bought one of his tanks in 2005, I think, somewhere around then. Dude, it ... There was no one making anything like that. He was, he's making these super high-end, crazy fucking double-wall insulated tanks and you get in there, it's just nothing.

   24. PDPhil Demers16:22

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       Just nothing. And you just, "Whoa."

   26. PDPhil Demers16:26

       And so you get swallowed into the nowhere.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       You just get taken into the ... I ... This ... And it's a good place to think about the subject that we're talking about today. You ... We gotta stop doing that with dolphins and orcas. It's gonna be thought of the same way we think about slavery today. It's horri- wa- ... That it's horrific, we can't understand it, and we can't believe that compassionate human beings would be willing to isolate members of a super social, highly intelligent animal species and just put them in swimming pools. It's fucking barbaric. It's crazy. It's torture. It's, it's-

   28. PDPhil Demers17:01

       And what's sad here is, you know, we, we're years removed from the documentary Blackfish.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       Yeah.

   30. PDPhil Demers17:06

       And, you know, that was really impactful. I mean, arguably, uh, responsible for the paradigm shift that we're, that we're experiencing here in North America, and other places of course. Um, but maybe it's time for people to revisit it. I know SeaWorld, uh, their stock is, a- and their value is sort of going up. Now, granted they ... You know, they change their numbers. They skew it. They have Free Beer Day. They pump the numbers up. You know, they have all these different promotions, whatever. I mean, everything that comes out of these, these facilities, these ... Assume it to be all bullshit, by the way. It, it's, it's all bullshit but not enough people question them on it. But as we speak while we're amidst sort of a paradigm shift here and, uh ... I mean, I can speak to it because, I mean, I'm very happy to say that we have very effectively decimated Marineland, and we'll talk more about that. But, uh, over in China this is now a burgeoning, uh, business. And I did ... We discussed this a year and a half ago and it's, it's tenfold now. It's happening very quickly. And I'm sure you're familiar with the whale jail situation in Russia. Have you seen that?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm. …

   1. PDPhil Demers30:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      Mm.

   3. PDPhil Demers30:00

      Whereas efforts to kill it came from the bottom up, this came from the top down. "You're not killing that bill."

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      I think people are understanding what dolphin captivity really is, what orca captivity really is. I think they're understanding that now, and I think it's just one of those things that exists because it's always existed. But if it didn't exist, now there's no fucking way anybody would ever let you do it.... if, if there was no captive dolphins and orcas, if someone just went around and kidnapped them, with what scientists know now about their social structure and their community, dude, they're so complex. The way they ta-... They have fucking dialects, right?

   5. PDPhil Demers30:36

      It's, they have dialects. Orcas have, uh, um, they have, th- they share languages in different regions and actually have a different accent of sorts. I mean, it's, uh, it's really remarkable stuff. Yeah, right, it would be a global outrage if today, if fr-... As day one, they, someone said, "Hey, look at this thing."

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:55

      Right.

   7. PDPhil Demers30:55

      "Let's put this in this box." I mean, it would be absurd.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:56

      But because we have them already.

   9. PDPhil Demers30:58

      Well, because we have them and there are some legacy businesses that have been around for a long time.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       That's a great way of putting it.

   11. PDPhil Demers31:03

       Um, you know, they have the means to fight. They know now that, "Look, this is not g- going so well." You can, you can see it in all the advertising, uh, these days. Uh, uh, SeaWorld almost rarely shows any orcas in their commercials. Although, it seems the industry is s- uh, sort of switching to baby walruses (laughs) , in f- in fact. They're v- they're, they're the new orcas, they're sort of the new brandable cute. Um-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       Really?

   13. PDPhil Demers31:26

       ... yeah, it really is. It's happening all over. It's happening in Canada as well. The Vancouver Aquarium is running with it. Um, yeah, and the same with SeaWorld. If you go to their, their Twitter, it's, you know, I w-... I can't say that present day it, it's, it's, like, literally the case today, but, uh, yeah, a lot of baby walrus, uh, stuff. It's where it's going. It's just they know that they can run with that, at least for s- for the time being.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Huh.

   15. PDPhil Demers31:46

       What's crazy in all this is here this bill is passing. Now we know it's going to pass. It's, uh, it should be, it should get royal assent, uh, come second week of June. Uh, shy of some, some catastrophe, this thing will become law. Um, that's why Marineland is trying to get rid of these whales as quickly as they can.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       Yeah.

   17. PDPhil Demers32:04

       They gotta get 'em outta here, because at least now they can just... Well, it sounds like two, two, uh, export permits have been approved, so they're, so two beluga whales are going to Spain. Um, you know, now granted that's being facilitated through the Vancouver Aquarium, (sighs) this becomes an ugly mess here because when it comes to zoos, they're all part of these associations. Okay? And these are l- these are industry voices. Anything that's... If a-... Any time you're told, "Well, this is an AZA accredited facility," you know, most schools for instance or d- or general people would say, "Oh, well, it's accredited, it's a good place." No, no, no, no, no. What that means is these places facilitate, uh, tr- animal transfers and whatnot to other member facilities. It's really just a club. And this club protects, uh, the interests of these parks, and keeps any type of oversight locked. They're lobby groups, basically. So what's happened is now through the Vancouver Aquarium, Marineland... So Marineland is sending these whales to Spain, but they're claiming them to be Vancouver Aquarium, uh, uh, whales, which is not true. They were never on these animals' inventory, or rather this facility's inventory list. There's never been any knowledge of any of this. But what's happened is because Vancouver Aquarium is accredited and has an affiliation with the AZA, so in Canada we call it CAZA, the Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquarium, and Marineland is in, is in fact not, uh, they no longer have their accreditation. They did, they didn't have the best of relationships shortly after all of our revelations. Um, it's all just... Right now it's just ev-... All, uh, the industry as a whole is breaking all of its own rules to facilitate getting these beluga whales. Marineland has 51 of them. Okay? There's five born every year, but they always have 51. And they don't, they haven't shipped an orca out in nearly a decade at this point. Um, I mean, you do the math that what's going on exactly, but-

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:50

       So they're dying?

   19. PDPhil Demers33:51

       They always have 51. They don't ship 'em anywhere else. I can attest that, yes, uh, when I was there and in my experience, and you know you don't have to watch my words because I know Marineland's lawyer Andrew Burns is listening. Hi, Andrew. I'll see you next week. Um, in my experience, uh, yeah, you're, uh, for as many animals are born, you're just about losing as many. So you'll lose two old ones, you'll lose three young ones. Not all the ones that are born are gonna be successful, just about half are. Um, so, so what's happening now is the industry wants that bloodline. There's 51 captive orcas. Whereas, you know, there's a lot of controversy in importing animals from other places. The states can't... In fact, they can't bring them in from Russia without a public consult period. It might still be the case with Canada. So actually the public might actually be consulted, uh, about the import of these five belugas that, um, Marineland is seeking permit for to export. So that's something that certainly as an activist level I'll be, I'll be, you know, helping to, uh, guide towards the proper resolution. But, yeah, that's all happening. It is a race right now to g- to get rid of Marineland's animals. And, uh, (laughs) man, it is a wild time. It's- it's a wild time to be inside the doors at Marineland, as I can imagine, and in the fences. Uh, and it's, it's a most wild time for me to be on the outside because I've never in the last six and a half years of, of litigation and just of my advocacy and being sort of in a, up, you know, basically being engaged in war with Marineland, I've never seen them w- work harder to suppress me and to try to silence me than they are now. Uh, uh, as breaking news just today, Marineland had built this fence, aptly named Phil's Fence, around the park and just today we found out they blacked it all out with tarps, because come, uh, this Saturday, uh, May 18th, and certainly I'm inviting everyone to come join me. Uh, I'll be joining as an, as a guest, uh, a big demonstration outside of Marineland and we're gonna protest it, uh, as they're an-... as they're anticipating because on account of my coming on this show, they worked very hard to try to keep me from, A, coming, B, speaking of anything, C, certainly not promoting this event. So I certainly hope that this event is a, is a, is a well-attended-

   20. JRJoe Rogan36:04

       How did they try to do that?

   21. PDPhil Demers36:06

       Well, because we're in litigation, what happens at, in litigation is you come to a point where you start to negotiate. And so there's things that they want from me. There's things they really want from me. They want my silence.... the problem is that they're never gonna silence me. It's not an option. I've said it before, I'll say it again, they can offer me a million dollars to shut up and go away. It's not gonna happen. I'm not gonna delete my Twitter. I'm not gonna delete any of my tweets that have the word Marineland in them.

   22. JRJoe Rogan36:46

       Is this a request?

   23. PDPhil Demers36:48

       These, this is layers and layers, and there have been layers of requests. Basically, they'd hoped that I wouldn't come here. They'd hoped something could be worked out. In our litigation, we have, uh, so now, I, I chased Marineland. So back when Marineland's owner was still alive, uh, I put forth a huge campaign to try to get him to be examined legally by my lawyer, much like I've, uh, had to sort of submit myself to. Um, but as these lawsuits, and as, as litigation continues to reveal itself as just a perfect method of abuse, you know that they're just... The only resolve these things appear to serve is to exhaust both parties and have them come together with a resolution. So after six and a half years, uh, Marineland seems intent on a resolution. They don't wanna go to examinations. So while we were in... So while I was there to be examined a couple of weeks ago, my lawyer said, "Take a walk," and the two lawyers began their talks. We put off the examination because we believed there could be some good faith that could be shown between parties. Um, it became quite evident that it was not the case. And when we re- were to resume our examinations, which was to be last week, Marineland, on account to the fact that I was coming on this show, threw an absolute tirade and said, "We are not doing this." Now, bear in mind, this is a court-ordered examination date. I've got a, uh, a trial, uh, coordinator who is trying to nudge this thing forward because, I mean, that's something, that's a, that's a motion I had to win in the litigation itself, is to try to get someone to look at this thing so that it could actually move forward. Like, "Let's get someone to manage it." So we're, we're in case management. So that case management judge has issued a very aggressive schedule. It's... In, back in February, we had a court date of which, thank you very much, I won, uh, handedly. Marineland had to pick up, uh, just a little more than $12,000 of my legal bill, which is really, uh, on this particular motion, in this event, uh, kind of a drop in the pan. But, um, nonetheless, a, a, a, a, a sound victory in court. Um, you know, we have a case conference call next week now.

   24. JRJoe Rogan38:58

       Yup.

   25. PDPhil Demers38:58

       I don't know where this stands because now Marineland has breached the court's order. So we went. They didn't show up to the examination. I got, uh, a fourth, uh, what's called a, um, certificate of non-attendance. It means the person that was supposed to be examined that day didn't show up. Uh, Marineland's owner, John Hohler, who has now passed away, uh, didn't show up to two of his, his examinations knowing full well that I'd have to pick up the 1,700 bucks to ca- to, just to be there to get the certificate, and he's just not gonna show up, no big deal. There doesn't seem to be any punitive damage at their end. They, they, uh... I mean, we're almost seven years into this thing and they're still, like, brutalizing me. But we're at a point where they're actually in a very uncomfortable position of having to keep this thing. If you don't want this litigation to be on the public record, and transcripts, and evidence, and everything, you have to stop it. It seems to me the courts, uh, appear to facilitate resolutions of that sort. They like settlements. I was promised a trial on day one. It's what kept me going. They're lying about me. They're lying about everything, everything they're saying.

   26. JRJoe Rogan40:01

       And they're trying to exhaust you financially?

   27. PDPhil Demers40:03

       Well, of course they are. I mean, that's the, so, so the, uh, the premise is-

   28. JRJoe Rogan40:05

       And are you counter-suing them as well?

   29. PDPhil Demers40:07

       I'm counter-suing. The premise of my counter-suit is so that they couldn't merely drop my d- my, the lawsuit against me over a period of time, and then that just be it. And that I would, I would then have to actually file a motion to get some costs back. I'd be lucky to get 50% and everything. Uh, in the early days, my lawyer said, "Let's sue them back." And so we did. I'm suing them for abuse of process. They're, they're using the court's time, resources. Uh, they s- I mean, even for that matter, we can extend that to the police and other, uh, you know, d- uh, departments and organizations. Uh, they're exhausting, uh, these things, uh, in bad faith. They're doing it because they just wanna try to... Basically, they wanna take away my right to, uh, free expression, which is a Canadian chartered right. I mean, I'm protecting my own history here. I mean, this is insanity. I can't even believe that after six and a half years, I'm still here at risk of being silenced, that the fact that... Uh, I mean, look, full disclosure, I'm out of money. The last time I was on this show, we raised... I mean, and again, thank you so much. 60, or maybe almost 70,000? That's in a year and a half. That's gone. I spent my last penny last month. It was a very aggressive last three months.

   30. JRJoe Rogan41:14

       Do you have a GoFundMe?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   But that's 'cause you…

   1. PDPhil Demers45:00

      is a wonderful woman. I mean, listen, if... I, I honestly and truly believe if the lawyer himself wasn't the controlling mind of the business now, uh, he's sort of facilitating this transfer of, of, of the business as it was to just being sold off, pieced off, and, and, you know, distribute the wealth to the, to the remaining family members. I think that we could... I think this story ends on a good note. I mean, I have no hostilities. You know, I have every reason in the world to despise the man who sued me. And I don't. I don't even think about him. It was never about that. They made every case in the world, every argument that this was personal between me and him. And-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:35

      But that's 'cause you look in the camera and say "fuck you" to people.

   3. PDPhil Demers45:37

      It's personal between me and Don Plett. You can bet your ass.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:39

      (laughs)

   5. PDPhil Demers45:40

      That's a different story. (laughs) But you know what I'm saying?

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:43

      Did I make him famous?

   7. PDPhil Demers45:44

      Well, you've made him famous in a way.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      (laughs) In a way, yeah.

   9. PDPhil Demers45:46

      Maybe, maybe.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       Um, so where do you stand right now?

   11. PDPhil Demers45:52

       Well, I don't know. So next week, we're having a case management, uh... The case manager is gonna talk and we're gonna see what becomes of Marineland's once again skipped examination.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       It's so hard to believe this is still going on.

   13. PDPhil Demers46:03

       Dude, welcome to my fucking world.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       From the, from the time you first came on the podcast to now, this has been just this scratch and claw.

   15. PDPhil Demers46:11

       Every day of my life, I live with this looming, uh, cloud of, uh, threat. Of like there's people out there that really want me... I'm not talking physical threat, okay? They, they did, they played their games. You know, I called every one of their bluffs every, at, in, at every corner of this thing. But, you know, there's something about someone-

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       When you say they played their games, like there was-

   17. PDPhil Demers46:33

       Oh, they sent goons to my house.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       Yeah.

   19. PDPhil Demers46:34

       There's a video, in fact, that there's, on that documentary, you'll see these. They sent some tough guys. I mean, they were sending people at 6:00 AM harassing my girlfriend while she's taking the garbage out. I mean, it, it really got pretty intense. Um, but we stood our ground. I was like, "This is not gonna go down like this." It's like, "You're fucking with the wrong guy, dude." Like, listen, I come from a place called Welland, Ontario. I don't know that you're familiar with it. I'm gonna assume not. Probably few people are, unless you're an avid hockey fan, because we have produced some pretty, uh, amazing, uh, NHL talent. But, um, you know, this population of like 50,000. I'm a Wellander. I don't know any other... And I'm a Frenchman. I mean, that's probably another thing to stress, but I don't know any other way to deal with things other than to sort of fight it out. You know? You don't cower and run. You don't... You know, you stare the threat, especially when you're on the right side of things. I'm not gonna sit there and take shit. I'm not gonna... It's not gonna work for them to continuously try to threaten me because, dude, I'm invested. And I'm not talking money. I'm in a... It's like a hostage situation. It's how it started. My only interest is ending the hostage situation. That not my only interest. I shouldn't say that. Of course not. You know, I have interests in s- in, in... You know, I've been advocating for the, for bills and ob- obviously advocating, um, letting people know that... You know, sort of taking the veil off the bullshit, uh, that the industry reports to be-

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:53

       But you feel like you're negotiating for a hostage in Smushy.

   21. PDPhil Demers47:58

       They're, they're using her as that type of chip.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:03

       Yeah.

   23. PDPhil Demers48:04

       That's their bar- That's their bargaining chip.

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:06

       Right.

   25. PDPhil Demers48:06

       That's what they got.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:07

       And they're keeping this constant pressure on you, this constant financial pressure.

   27. PDPhil Demers48:11

       Additional threats, uh, constant...

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:13

       Yeah.

   29. PDPhil Demers48:13

       Like, it... My lawyer, in fact, and this is where it gets kind of weird because, listen, I don't understand. He's supposed to be representing me. The answer is no to everything. Fight, fight, fight. I want a trial. He instead is coming with, "Listen, this is not how litigation ends, Phil. Like you don't seem to understand how this ends. You don't have a grip of how li- l- litigation works." And I'm just like, "I'm glad that I don't, because my guess is I'm a representative of about 90% of the population that don't know. And it's important that we find out." I was promised a trial because they said I was this, this, this, this, this. Well, let's get to that fucking trial. This is what I've been doing. This doesn't end with negotiations.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:44

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:12

   (laughs) …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      my words, you should stop. This is not the future. This is ... You can't do that anymore. This is going, you ... This is going to look horrible just a few years from now where people who've seen Blackfish, people who do understand what those things are, the more we find out about dolphins and orcas, the more we understand them, it's gonna be more and more. It's not like, "Oh, wait a minute. We just did some tests. We found out ..." They're- they're like crabs, bro. They're dumb as fuck.

   2. PDPhil Demers1:00:26

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

      Like, you could just eat 'em. (laughs) That's not gonna happen, man. We're more and more impressed with them the more we study them.

   4. PDPhil Demers1:00:33

      I am more than happy to negotiate with Marineland that rather than signing any type of non-disparagement, because I don't want my speech virtually locked in a, uh, in a, in a legal document. Um, I'm a forgiving person. I don't need ... I'm only responding in kind to their hostilities. They come at me with war. I bring it back. I- I don't want to. I have to.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

      Yeah.

   6. PDPhil Demers1:00:58

      I take it right back up to where they bring it. Then they do this. I gotta do this. Then they do this. I'm like, "What are you fucking thinking?"It's like if they would just dia- just dial it back, I can be a happy, smiley, not chirping Marineland guy. I don't have to be... I don't have to do that. I've done what I've had to, to be where I am. The man who was... who created this scenario is gone. We don't need the hostilities anymore. So, what is the lawyer's motives exactly? I don't know. But I can assure you, now that they've blacked out the fence, they- they're doing everything they can to suppress, uh, our information. They've bought up all the billboards in, uh... all the available billboards in Niagara Falls, so that they've got Marineland signs. Because, you know, we have put up... Like as activists, activists have put up billboards. Uh, one of which was, like, right at the entrance of Marineland last year. It was a thing of beauty. So they, you know, they bought all these things up. They really don't want bad PR right now. My guess is trying to get rid of the animals, mitigate the PR losses because there's already a- a sound foundation of it, of bad PR, and sell the property, get rid of it all. And I think, you know, they're trying to fast track an accreditation so that they can facilitate animal, uh, uh, movements and whatnot. My greatest weapon right now, unfortunately, is that I can assure them a great deal of, uh, of financial risk. I have and I certainly can, and am right now. They need to take that into consideration. When you consider the price of a walrus, and let's just use the number 100,000, which is a grossly inflated number for a walrus, and let's say Marineland were to say, hypothetically, "Well, why would we give you a $100,000 asset when it's gonna cost us less than that just to finish this litigation? And we'll owe you 25K at the end or some shit. Why, why would we do that? It doesn't make sense." And I say to them, "It's because I'm gonna make that walrus cost you tens of millions. Consider that. Lose the hostilities, I'll make you guys heroes. We can do that too." The nar- this narrative doesn't have to continue. The narrative of war can end with, with the dead owner. It, it could have ended, but...

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:02:56

      Well, they're all invested in it. And one of the things about lawsuits, it's like people, when they get started, there's a game going on. You're trying to win, you're trying to win, trying to get the other side to cave. I mean, this is a lot of what this is all. And obviously, you've taken this very personally. This is all a part of you now.

   8. PDPhil Demers1:03:13

      Can I explain something really messed up?

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:03:15

      Yeah.

   10. PDPhil Demers1:03:16

       I now... Because we're coming to an end, the, you know, the law that I've been advocating for is going to pass. Um, this lawsuit is going to end. The animals will... I mean, we're gonna find out what's gonna happen to them in, in the, in the near future. We already know what's, what's becoming of some. Um, I don't know what it's gonna be like to live without a lawsuit. Once the prospect of not-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:03:39

       It's gonna be nice, bro. You're gonna be on the beach with your feet up.

   12. PDPhil Demers1:03:42

       When the prospect came round of me not having one anymore, that's not how I saw it. It's weird. I'm oddly-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:03:49

       Can I see it too?

   14. PDPhil Demers1:03:50

       ... strangely addicted and married to a fucking lawsuit. I can't see past it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03:55

       Yeah, you'll be fine. Listen, we'll get you through. You need more of that plant medicine, son.

   16. PDPhil Demers1:03:59

       I know. I took a look at that bag right there and it says insane.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:04:00

       (laughs)

   18. PDPhil Demers1:04:00

       I'm like, "Yeah. No, that's about right."

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:04:02

       That's BeReal stuff. That stuff will put you on the, the planet that's outside Pluto that we haven't discovered yet.

   20. PDPhil Demers1:04:07

       And I see you've got the Tyson Ranch box there.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:04:09

       Oh, yeah, man. I got a Tyson Ranch box. He hooked me up. And then that big box is from... What, what is the company that gave us the big box?

   22. GCGuest (unidentified, brief contributor)1:04:17

       Uh, it was Speed Weed that helped, but it's-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:04:19

       Right.

   24. GCGuest (unidentified, brief contributor)1:04:19

       ... like it, uh... I think the XTRAXX company, ABX XTRAXX, or I'm not sure who. I honestly don't know.

   25. PDPhil Demers1:04:25

       We should shout out that company.

   26. GCGuest (unidentified, brief contributor)1:04:26

       There's a couple different things in there.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:04:27

       I had... I was elbow deep in all those boxes, by the way.

   28. GCGuest (unidentified, brief contributor)1:04:29

       That's the most up-to-date. Speed Weed, they're the best and they're, they're fucking... They brought me a war chest. So, get in there.

   29. PDPhil Demers1:04:35

       I'm actually gonna be on, uh, on Tyson's podcast tomorrow.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:38

       Are you really?

Episode duration: 1:34:56