Joe Rogan Experience #1313 - Duncan Trussell

Joe Rogan 0:00 (meditative chanting) Episode 1313, ladies and gentlemen. That's a, that's a number. It's a very important number.

Duncan Trussell 0:23 Very important.

Joe Rogan 0:24 Tell me why.

Duncan Trussell 0:25 Why 1313 is important?

Joe Rogan 0:27 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 0:27 Well, we got two 13s back-to-back, so it doubles the normal potency of 13, which is already a mystical number, which terrifies people in the West.

Joe Rogan 0:40 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 0:40 They think it's unlucky, but in Tibetan Buddhism, it's considered a very lucky and auspicious number.

Joe Rogan 0:46 Yeah, I was staying in a hotel in Vegas. They have no 13th floor and I don't think they had a fourth floor either.

Duncan Trussell 0:54 A fourth?

Joe Rogan 0:55 Yeah, there's something about some cultures, the number four is unlucky.

Duncan Trussell 1:00 How many cultures do we get to influence our buildings these days?

Joe Rogan 1:03 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 1:03 That's what's crazy. And what's crazier is, at some point, someone convinced a person, "Listen, can we just not do a 13th floor?" And they listened to him. They're like, "All right, I guess, we'll just go from 12 to 14."

Joe Rogan 1:17 Um, Shooter Jennings has it in a song, "When I check into 1410, I know what room I'm really in."

Duncan Trussell 1:23 Ooh, that's cool.

Joe Rogan 1:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:25 Yeah, well I, you know what? That's what's so funny about it, is because, like, that's the whole problem, isn't it? Is like people wanna pretend they're not on the 13th floor when they fucking know they are-

Joe Rogan 1:37 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:37 ... instead of just acknowledging, "This is where I'm at."

Joe Rogan 1:39 "No, no, no. We're in the 14, we're 14."

Duncan Trussell 1:42 It's 14, call it the 14th floor. Just call it and it'll be that. Dude, I went, when I was, uh, in college, we had to do service for, like, to get the degree. You had to go do, like, s- service overseas. So we went to India, to Dharamsala, and we taught the monks English. And, uh, I was sitting with, like, listening, overhearing a monk in a conversation with someone teaching him English, and the person's trying to explain to him how there isn't a 13th floor in buildings in the West. And the monk was like, "Does it levitate?"

Joe Rogan 2:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 2:14 Like, "Is it missing?"

Joe Rogan 2:16 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 2:16 "How do they do it?" He was genuinely perplexed. It was like a magical thing.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Right. Yeah. Well, in a culture that forces its citizens, if they want to run the country, you have to believe in something that, whether you're a Christian or whether you're a b- baptist, or s- Mormon, whatever, whatever you are, there's certain parts of your religion that if you just didn't wanna analyze them, just wanna put them out on paper, and we'll say, "Okay, did this really happen? Did this guy really die and come back to life? Did, uh, is everybody agreeing on this?"

Duncan Trussell 2:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:55 Everyone's agreeing that a zombie, a guy became a zombie, and he came back three days later, and we're cool with that. This is a part of the doctrine.

Duncan Trussell 3:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:04 So this is like a part of running the country. You, I don't think you can be an atheist in this country. I don't think we would let you run it.

Duncan Trussell 3:12 To be, you have to, I think you do have to have some affiliation with some religion or another, probably.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Something.

Duncan Trussell 3:18 Yeah. And yet right now, it seems to be like it needs to be Christianity. Like there needs to be, like every president that has aligned themselves with...

Joe Rogan 3:26 It's like we're trapped in this, this thing that you are when you're young. You know this thing you are when you're young, where you're looking at the people that are older than you? You're looking at society and you're like 16, you're just starting to think, "Goddamn, I'm gonna be graduating from high school soon. What am I gonna do with my life?" You know, it's, you're filled with so much angst.

Duncan Trussell 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:47 But you always think, "Yeah, this shit doesn't make any sense, but one day it will. And one day, we'll be the grownups."

Duncan Trussell 3:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 "And we'll be the ones that get to make the rules and we'll go, 'Hey, this is, we're doing things all wrong, folks. We're doing things out of momentum rather than out of logic.'" But that time never comes. And then all of a sudden, you're like you or I, where you're middle-aged.

Duncan Trussell 4:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 We're middle-aged men.

Duncan Trussell 4:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:11 I'm a 51-year-old man.

Duncan Trussell 4:12 45.

Joe Rogan 4:12 I'm almost 52. We're middle-aged, if we're lucky, if we're super lucky. Reality, we're closer to death.

Duncan Trussell 4:19 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 4:20 For sure. So, and we're still trapped by this thing where you, you have to pretend you absolutely know. Look, live your life like Jesus is real. Live your life like you wanna follow those tenets, and you'll probably live a better life, if you really follow the actual true tenets of Christianity. But if you really wanna believe that a guy came back to life, and that it only happened once, and that you have to follow this book-

Duncan Trussell 4:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:48 ... and if you don't follow this book that was clearly written and rewritten and fucked with by people, and you know that people are known liars.

Duncan Trussell 4:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:55 Like there's, why do we have court? Because people lie. What really happened? You have to fucking get a bunch of people to sit down and figure out what really happened. 'Cause this guy's saying, "I didn't do anything, Your Honor."

Duncan Trussell 5:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:04 And they got prints and DNA.

Duncan Trussell 5:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:08 And in, in that world of known liars, we believe a crazy story that was written when people had no science, but we accept it because we think it makes the world a better place.

Duncan Trussell 5:19 Yeah, man, it's nuts. And there's like so many levels of that, where it's like, yeah, that's one obvious level, that if you want to take Jesus literally, which is, you have to in certain, um, forms of Christianity, you're gonna have to deal with some pretty severe cognitive dissonance. You'll be taught maybe to question your instincts. But then, go one step deeper and start thinking... 'Cause the real question is, well, what is real? Like I mean, the ob- there's obvious shit that's clearly bullshit.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 5:48 But wait, the- then when you start going down, you realize like, you get to the point of the self.

Joe Rogan 5:53 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 5:53 And then, you start realizing that the self and this Jesus that everyone believes in are very similar in the sense that, like, you know, I don't say, "I believe in gravity."... you would think I was crazy if I said... It would be a crazy thing to say, like, "You know, I believe there's gravity." There is gravity. It's testable, it works. But what do you always hear when people are like, "If you want to succeed, what do you do? You believe in yourself." And it's like, well, wait, what do you mean believe in yourself? I am a self. Why do I have to believe-

Joe Rogan 6:21 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 6:22 ... in it, right?

Joe Rogan 6:23 Well-

Duncan Trussell 6:23 So that-

Joe Rogan 6:23 ... it's just a, it's a clunky way of saying self-doubt is crippling.

Duncan Trussell 6:28 (clicks tongue) Well, the... Self-doubt, self, you know, rejection, I hate myself, I love myself-

Joe Rogan 6:33 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 6:34 All these things have within it this concept of the self. And a lot of folks, uh, have not spent much time really exploring, like, well, what is the, what is the self? Like, what is my particular self? And, uh, I think, it, it kind of reminds me of, uh, when we were Sasquatch hunting. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:53 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 6:54 You know, the self, or the, the, many people's self is very similar to Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 6:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 6:59 It's a thing that they imagine that there's signs of, but they've never really quite seen the Bigfoot, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:04 Right, right.

Duncan Trussell 7:05 But, you know, "Remember the feather in the trail?"

Joe Rogan 7:08 Boo-hoo.

Duncan Trussell 7:08 "It's a gift. It means he likes you."

Joe Rogan 7:10 Yeah. They would-

Duncan Trussell 7:11 Th- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:11 ... think that Sasquatches were taking and leaving gifts, taking their gifts and leaving their own gifts, swapping gifts.

Duncan Trussell 7:17 Yeah, yeah. And we are-

Joe Rogan 7:18 They believed it.

Duncan Trussell 7:19 They believed it for-

Joe Rogan 7:20 They believed it the same-

Duncan Trussell 7:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:21 ... way people believe in a religion, you know?

Duncan Trussell 7:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:23 I, I had a friend, and she was a Mormon. I've told this story before, so forgive me if you've heard it. Um, th- she was a Mormon, but I think it's important. And she was a, a devout her whole life, and then the family just fell out of it. And then they started realizing, like they started go- going into the history of it, and they, they started thinking it was preposterous. It was right around when Book of Mormon was coming out, too. You know, that hilarious musical. And-

Duncan Trussell 7:46 I didn't see it.

Joe Rogan 7:46 It's great. It's really good. Uh, but she was really honest about it. She was like, "The problem is, like, growing up in that fundamentalist background, it makes me very susceptible to, like, healers, and, like, psychics, and clairvoyants," and bullshit r- spiritual people, sp- She's like-

Duncan Trussell 8:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:01 "I get sucked into bullshit." And she was, like, almost kind of upset.

Duncan Trussell 8:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:05 I mean, no, not almost. Like, she was kind of upset, but, like, perplexed. Like, how do you rewire yourself when you've been trained to believe that a 14-year-old boy in 1820 found golden tablets that contained the lost work of Jesus-

Duncan Trussell 8:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:19 ... and that all the Native Americans were the lost tribe of Israel? (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 8:22 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 8:23 Like, I mean, this is, that's the story, right?

Duncan Trussell 8:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:25 A 14-year-old boy, he had a magic rock-

Duncan Trussell 8:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:27 ... he was the only one who could read it.

Duncan Trussell 8:29 It's crazy, too.

Joe Rogan 8:29 She started looking into it.

Duncan Trussell 8:31 And she, uh, she's out. She, like-

Joe Rogan 8:33 Gone, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 8:33 Gone.

Joe Rogan 8:34 Gone.

Duncan Trussell 8:34 And that's sad, too, man, because, like, y- if you ta- you could take some, like, basic tenets which are true, and not based on... It kind of reminds me of, like, you know, you hear of someone who's taken ayahuasca, and he comes to you, and he's got a profound message that came to him from some mythological creature, a dragon-

Joe Rogan 8:53 (laughs) Yep.

Duncan Trussell 8:53 ... a butterfly-

Joe Rogan 8:54 Yep.

Duncan Trussell 8:54 ... has told him some kind of profound fucking thing.

Joe Rogan 8:57 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 8:58 And you realize, oh, the bubble machine-

Joe Rogan 9:00 Oh, the bubble machine's running.

Duncan Trussell 9:00 ... of profundity.

Joe Rogan 9:01 We got a bubble machine for 13:13 episode-

Duncan Trussell 9:03 Yeah, whenever we're talking about... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:05 It's cool, I like it.

Duncan Trussell 9:06 That's so funny.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Let's keep it rolling.

Duncan Trussell 9:08 The, um, yeah, the, uh, so, you know-

Joe Rogan 9:12 Don't get caught up in popping 'em, though. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 9:15 The, (laughs) when you, I know, that's a problem with getting-

Joe Rogan 9:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 9:16 ... too high.

Joe Rogan 9:17 You still enjoy 'em.

Duncan Trussell 9:17 You're like, "Fuck talking, what do we do with all these?" Just pop bubbles.

Joe Rogan 9:19 Just let the bubbles fly, the multiverses.

Duncan Trussell 9:21 But you know what I'm saying? It's like the, for them to really, like, take in the basic wisdom-

Joe Rogan 9:26 Keep it going.

Duncan Trussell 9:26 ... they got from the mythological creature, they needed a mythological creature. The mythological c- creature said something to them along the lines of, "You need to love yourself more."

Joe Rogan 9:36 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 9:36 "You need to give more to your community." Whatever the message is.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Right.

Duncan Trussell 9:39 But if your Uber driver said that to you, it wouldn't get through, because-

Joe Rogan 9:44 Right.

Duncan Trussell 9:44 ... it wasn't, like, phosphorescent-

Joe Rogan 9:46 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 9:46 ... it didn't have multiple heads. So, similarly, with these religions, what happens is you do get some real transcendent wisdom that's sort of timeless-

Joe Rogan 9:55 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 9:55 ... mixed in with it, and then-

Joe Rogan 9:56 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 9:56 ... the people, because they realize, like, "Oh, my God, it was kind of a fairytale," they also reject the good stuff inside of it. And that, to me, is the big tragedy of any kind of fundamentalist, literalist interpretation that's being forced on people, is because within that is inevitably something great-

Joe Rogan 10:14 Right.

Duncan Trussell 10:14 ... or it wouldn't be so viral. Like, Christianity wouldn't be here right now if there wasn't a core thread in it that had a beautiful message in it. It-

Joe Rogan 10:22 It makes people nicer people. I, I actually had a really big conversation this weekend with, uh, a very good friend about it, about another very good friend who's very religious. And we were saying, like, I think, uh, for some people, it's an amazing framework and a guide to live your life. I really do believe that. I, I have several friends that are very devout Christians.

Duncan Trussell 10:42 Yeah, it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 10:43 And they, they're the nicest people I know. And Mormons, by the way. I have friends that are Mormons, still, to this day. I have several friends that are Mormons. And they are some of the nicest people.

Duncan Trussell 10:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:53 And I don't care if they believe something that I don't believe in. That's okay. It's okay. It is okay. But, I mean, the, the idea that everyone is supposed to buy into stuff without questioning it is the reason why we are 51-year-old 16-year-olds.

Duncan Trussell 11:11 Dude, a- I agree. And then, there's the deeper symbolic shit that seems to be encoded in Christianity, whether from people projecting their own understanding on a pretty wild symbol set, or-

Joe Rogan 11:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 11:24 ... maybe it was intentional. Either way, there's like a cool, like, you know, the, uh, have we talked about this? Like, if you take a cube and unfold it, it makes a crucifix, and, like, the cube represents pre-Big Bang conditions-

Joe Rogan 11:41 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 11:41 ... and the crucifix represents past, present, and future intersecting with eternity. And they-

Joe Rogan 11:47 Oh, so if you have a, a square, oh, I get it. So the, the length, the height is twice as the width?

Duncan Trussell 11:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 And that's, oh, okay.

Duncan Trussell 11:54 Make, it unfolds into a crucifix.

Joe Rogan 11:55 For people that are annoyed with that sound, it sounds like a pencil sharpening over, and over, and over again, we're sorry.

Duncan Trussell 12:01 Sorry about that, y'all, but bubbles-

Joe Rogan 12:02 That's probably annoying.

Duncan Trussell 12:02 ... don't come free. You need a sound-

Joe Rogan 12:04 (laughs) Just need a machine.

Duncan Trussell 12:04 You gotta have a cr- s- ca-

Joe Rogan 12:06 We could hire somebody.... hire some dude-

Duncan Trussell 12:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:09 ... to just blow bubbles.

Duncan Trussell 12:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:10 What do you do? I blow bubbles on the JRE, bro.

Duncan Trussell 12:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:13 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 12:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:15 Some, like, fucking manly wrestler dude.

Duncan Trussell 12:19 I would do that, man.

Joe Rogan 12:20 It's a great gig.

Duncan Trussell 12:21 I would definitely do that.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Yeah, different people come in and blow bubbles and occasionally they chime in, "Hey, I'm gonna be on the JRE next week." "What are you doing?" "I'm blowing bubbles." "Oh, cool. You're the bubble blower for the week."

Duncan Trussell 12:31 You could start something that became... Like, that's just what people do. It's like, "Did you get your bubble man yet?"

Joe Rogan 12:36 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:37 "Yeah, I'm a classic bubble man. I know how to do it. The new guys, they're too loud when they blow."

Joe Rogan 12:42 Well, E- E- Did Johnny Carson... Was Ed McMahon the first sidekick? Well- W- D- Did Jack Paar have a sidekick?

Duncan Trussell 12:51 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Yeah, well, how many options were before that? Ed Sullivan and... Yeah,

Narrator 12:54 And-

Joe Rogan 12:55 Well, there was the other guy, Steve Allen? (clears throat) I think Steve Allen might've been the first. Was he the first Tonight Show or the second Tonight Show? Yeah, but I think that Ed McMahon was probably the first sidekick. And once they had a sidekick, people were like, "Oh, yeah."

Duncan Trussell 13:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:13 "You need a sidekick."

Duncan Trussell 13:14 You need it. You do. You need somebody to play that part, 'cause you can bounce stuff off of 'em. It's so great.

Joe Rogan 13:20 Right.

Duncan Trussell 13:20 The reaction.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:21 So much better than a laugh track.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:25 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:26 So Christianity, it's, on one level, are you fucking kidding me? It's like... A- I- I have this nerdy part of me, man, when you were doing the Jesus is a zombie thing.

Joe Rogan 13:34 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 13:35 I really wanted to be like, well, technically not a zombie.

Joe Rogan 13:38 Not a zombie if you die and come back to life?

Duncan Trussell 13:39 I don't think so because he was buried, right? Like, a zom- Like, he did come back to life.

Joe Rogan 13:44 But there's a- there's a move in jujitsu called the zombie.

Duncan Trussell 13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 And what the zombie is, is when you're in mission control and you're trying to get an underhook, you push your hand through like a zombie rising through the ground. So zombies get buried.

Duncan Trussell 13:59 Yeah, but I guess, you know, I- I don't wanna get into, like, a deep topic.

Joe Rogan 14:02 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:02 But why not? Let's break it up. So what is a zom- like, when- when is it just a person who's, like, severely disabled and when is it a zombie? Well, you know what I mean? Like, as a-

Joe Rogan 14:12 Well, if they're dead.

Duncan Trussell 14:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 14:13 If they're dead, they die. Their heart stops beating.

Duncan Trussell 14:15 But they're-

Joe Rogan 14:15 Their doctor says they're dead.

Duncan Trussell 14:16 You would be, like, a complete asshole if you're like, "They have the s- They have the same intelligence as humans." They're clearly, there's some brain damage has happened to a zombie, right? It's a-

Joe Rogan 14:25 In most movies.

Duncan Trussell 14:26 It's a person with brain damage-

Joe Rogan 14:28 Is there any zombie movies where they're smart?

Duncan Trussell 14:30 I've ne- Th- That's just every movie.

Joe Rogan 14:33 Yeah, but I- There's... I guarantee, like, there's- there's zombie movies where they run fast.

Duncan Trussell 14:37 That was an evolution of the zombie.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:39 It started running. The zombie became, like, kinda like hyper-violent.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 14:43 And then... But still, I guess what they all have in common is that they're technically, they're dead in the sense they don't have a heartbeat. They're not dead. Like, a biologist would be like, "The zombie is alive."

Joe Rogan 14:52 Right.

Duncan Trussell 14:52 "It's just like a fungus now or something."

Joe Rogan 14:54 It's running through a parasite inside of it, essentially.

Duncan Trussell 14:56 Y- Yeah, it's some kind of fungus.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Rabies.

Duncan Trussell 14:58 Yeah, some new rabies or gut biome problem.

Joe Rogan 15:02 Yeah. What was the- the 28 Days Later? Is that it? Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:06 20... That was it.

Joe Rogan 15:07 That w- that was the first one where they ran.

Duncan Trussell 15:08 Yeah, and that was the scariest-

Joe Rogan 15:09 God, that was good.

Duncan Trussell 15:10 Fucking awesome. Running zombies-

Joe Rogan 15:12 That movie was so good.

Duncan Trussell 15:13 So good.

Joe Rogan 15:14 And 'cause... And it was also shaky, like when-

Duncan Trussell 15:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:16 ... the zombies were chasing after you, you'd fucking panic because the screen was shaking when it was running at you.

Duncan Trussell 15:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:21 They were the first, like, berserker zombies.

Duncan Trussell 15:25 You know, man, all this gut biome stuff that we're hearing now, like, the- the study... I just read about the study today. Like, they found out that what the gut biome, what you're feeding your- uh, your baby affects their b- Like, there seems to be a correlation between their gut biome and the way they act when they're like five or something. They're, or two years old or something.

Joe Rogan 15:47 I'm sure, dude.

Duncan Trussell 15:48 And the autism link, you know, where they're saying they think autism might be related to, like-

Joe Rogan 15:52 Whoa. Who's saying that?

Duncan Trussell 15:53 Jamie, would you mind pulling that out before I fucking embarrass myself?

Joe Rogan 15:55 There's a guy named Dr. Peter Hotez, and he was on the podcast, and he is a, is an expert in, um, autism and vaccines and diseases in foreign countries, uh, particularly tropical diseases and warm, moist climate diseases.

Duncan Trussell 16:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:10 And he was talking about how they've got it narrowed down to five environmental factors that happen during the womb that they think possibly contribute to autism.

Duncan Trussell 16:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:22 But they don't think that it comes from something that happens later.

Duncan Trussell 16:26 Huh.

Joe Rogan 16:27 This is current science according to him. Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about, like, for sure.

Duncan Trussell 16:33 Neither.

Joe Rogan 16:33 I'm not a biologist at all. I- I've-

Duncan Trussell 16:34 People looking at us are probably like, "How do these scientists not know this?"

Joe Rogan 16:38 I should barely be able to say those words in order.

Duncan Trussell 16:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:42 And pretend like I know what they mean. But I- I listen to experts. Um, the mother's microbiome, the collection of microscopic organisms that lives inside of us, is a key contributor to the risk of autism, so, I mean, that might be one of the factors. So it's during the womb. And neurodevelopmental disorders in offspring. Well, it would make sense that if your body's not getting the proper nutrition and your body's not healthy, that whatever's going on inside of you is not going to be in the best environment for a baby to-

Duncan Trussell 17:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:11 ... to reach 100% health.

Duncan Trussell 17:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:14 It just makes sense. If you're eating terrible-

Duncan Trussell 17:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:17 ... while you're pregnant, it's not gonna be good for the kid. But if you're eating really well and you're relaxing and taking care of yourself, it's probably better for the kid. I mean, this seems, like, obvious. It doesn't seem to make any sense that it, that wouldn't be the case.

Duncan Trussell 17:31 I think the weird part of it, to me, it j- This runs into, like, i- h- ideas of free will or, like, autonomy in the sense that h- how much is the gut and the neurons in the gut and the neurons in the heart and all the interactions they're having with things that have different DNA than us-

Joe Rogan 17:53 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 17:54 ... affecting what we do? And, uh, w- like, there-

Joe Rogan 17:57 I think a lot.

Duncan Trussell 17:58 That's so weird 'cause, like-

Joe Rogan 18:00 I think it contributes to depression.

Duncan Trussell 18:01 Yeah. Yeah. And it contributes to, what else? Autism. What other behaviors are... In other words, are we just essentially being driven around by some kind of strange microscopic hive of creatures living in our shit?

Joe Rogan 18:17 In some way, yeah.Bri- you know, Bryan Callen had a pretty bad case of like, of, uh, psoriasis, kept coming back. It was nasty. Really bothered him. Tried a bunch of stuff, couldn't get it fixed. Went to one doctor who's a speciallo- a specialist in gut biome and its connection to autoimmune disorders, and the guy fixed him up. Just changed up his, uh, probiotics, like what he's taking, prebiotics and probiotics, gave him some, like, heavy duty shit. I forget exactly what he said, but it fixed it, and it was basically something going on in his gut biome.

Duncan Trussell 18:51 Oh.

Joe Rogan 18:51 And that can be affected by stress.

Duncan Trussell 18:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:54 (sighs) It could be affected by lack of sleep. There's all sorts of stuff that goes on in your body. Like, we have to think of ourselves as a s- like, a superorganism, like, essentially like an ecosystem. We have to think of ourselves as like, you're, you think of yourself as you. "Hey, it's me, it's Joe-"

Duncan Trussell 19:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:11 "... it's Duncan. We're talking, we're friends. Hey, what's up buddy?" But really what we are is the keepers of the realm.

Duncan Trussell 19:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:17 Okay? We got a whole realm of things living inside of our body and we're feeding it Twinkies and it's freaking out.

Duncan Trussell 19:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:23 And it's like, "You fucking moron." "Yeah, but I like what it feels like when Twinkies go in my face."

Duncan Trussell 19:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:28 "Yeah." So your fucking knees hurt all the time.

Duncan Trussell 19:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:31 Your back is killing you. You have all these inflammation problems, getting zits-

Duncan Trussell 19:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:34 ... and you're 40 years old. Like what the fuck? It's 'cause you're eating dog shit, man. You're not giving your body anything good. You're the keeper of the realm.

Duncan Trussell 19:41 And also, this is something I've been thinking about is like, how much data we're eating, which is equivalent to Twinkies. It's like-

Joe Rogan 19:49 Right.

Duncan Trussell 19:49 ... you eat a bunch of Twinkies, your body starts hurting, then you're just slurping up whatever the fuck on the phone, right? Which I, by the way, I'm talking about me.

Joe Rogan 19:57 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 19:58 This is what I do. I, you know, my bouncing around from like, Drudge Report to Huffington Report to Reddit Conspiracy to Reddit What the Fuck? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:06 Zip popping. How long before you're looking at like-

Duncan Trussell 20:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:09 ... a zip popping video? And then that takes you down into a place of like- Mm-hmm. ... "Oh, let's just move to animal cysts being-" Yep.

Duncan Trussell 20:15 And then b- and then you fall asleep, you wake up screaming.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yep.

Duncan Trussell 20:17 And that's the equivalent of getting like, gas, isn't it? From eating like, a huge Taco Bell meal. Only instead of farting, you're just, just screaming in the middle of the night 'cause you dreamed a cult was dragging you into the forest. It's like, this is, to me, we seem to have not quite acknowledged that data is as much a f- is like a food.

Joe Rogan 20:37 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 20:37 And that so much of the weirdness that is, uh, people are showing these like, strange behaviors, it's gotta be 'cause of the crazy shit they're sucking into their optic nerves, right?

Joe Rogan 20:48 It is. It's also the ability to affect people v- very rapidly, whether to get a reaction from someone positive or negative. People are so addicted to that.

Duncan Trussell 20:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:58 I watch people getting in these Twitter beefs back and forth and y- it's fucking smart people, man. A smart friend of mine, who I respect greatly, tried to get me to retweet something mean that he was saying to someone else. I'm like, "Get the fuck out of here."

Duncan Trussell 21:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:10 Like, "What are you s- what are you doing?"

Duncan Trussell 21:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:13 Like, "What are you doing with your time?" We get ... uh, the one thing that I've done over the last week, we did a podcast with, uh, Bert and Tom and Ari, and we all looked at the amount of screen time we put on our phones 'cause Ari was proposing no smartphones.

Duncan Trussell 21:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:27 Um, and my ph- fucking screen time was like, four hours-

Duncan Trussell 21:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:30 ... for a day. I was like, "What?" And, um, I'll lie to myself and I'll say, "Oh, well most of that's email and taking care of business."

Duncan Trussell 21:37 Yeah, me too.

Joe Rogan 21:37 No, most of it is going through Google News feed looking for crazy stories of like, animal attacks.

Duncan Trussell 21:42 Abso- (wheezes) (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:43 (laughs) That's what I'm always looking at, man. I watched a video today of a guy riding his dirt bike and a bear's chasing him. I'm like, "What in the fuck? What is happening?"

Duncan Trussell 21:52 Look, man, I don't want to try to like, uh, enable your addiction-

Joe Rogan 21:56 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 21:56 ... but honestly I think the internet has come to depend on your wild animal attack videos. Like, you have kind of become like, a news outlet for the best wild animal attacks.

Joe Rogan 22:06 People need to know.

Duncan Trussell 22:07 People need to see this shit, man.

Joe Rogan 22:08 They need to know.

Duncan Trussell 22:08 I'm like, "We don't know. I've never seen a vulture fight a rabbit or I do-"

Joe Rogan 22:12 People do have a very weird idea of what animals are, and I think that av- the average person, I'm, I'm certainly no expert, but amongst the average person, I have a much better understanding of wildlife because I'm out in the wild-

Duncan Trussell 22:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:28 ... several times a year hunting. It's a different world. It's a different world. I'm no expert, but my perception of it is as someone who sees wildlife in, in the wild. I see dead ones that other ones have killed. We came across a calf that had been ripped apart by wolves. I mean, we, we see stuff. And you realize what that is, (clears throat) what that, what that fucking forest really is.

Duncan Trussell 22:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:53 It's this competing, uh, ecosystem of life.

Duncan Trussell 22:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:57 And it's going on all the time, and there's big things jacking smaller things, and there's birds snatching things off the ground and snatching other birds outta trees.

Duncan Trussell 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 And it's happening all the time, and it's magic. And you have to have it that way because otherwise the, the whole population of the planet would be overrun. You have to have your sorrow of watching the bear tear apart the fawn. That has to happen because if it didn't happen, you'd have too many fawns. They'd be everywhere. You'd have too many deer.

Duncan Trussell 23:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:24 And you have to have someone who can take care of the bears, otherwise the bears will overrun the city where the humans live.

Duncan Trussell 23:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:29 And we need to think about that, and people don't want to because they don't wanna shoot Yogi. They don't wanna shoot Yogi and Booboo.

Duncan Trussell 23:35 No.

Joe Rogan 23:35 They're our friends. This is a teddy bear. I grew up with a bear. You don't know what a bear is. I've seen a bear in the wild. When you see a bear in the wild, you're like, "Oh, (bangs table) you're, you don't give a fuck about me." You're some weird, heartless beast that is majestic looking-

Duncan Trussell 23:50 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:50 ... who runs around eating moose and deer babies. That's what your deal is. You eat grass and berries and you like to lay around. You're fucking cool as shit. It's a cool-ass animal.

Duncan Trussell 24:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:02 It doesn't mean you hate it, but you gotta understand what the fuck it is. It's not like this idea like people don't want, um, people to hunt bears in certain places. Like, particularly like, uh, they're, they're, they're trying to regulate the size of, uh, the amount of grizzly bears in certain parts of the country. They're like, "Hey, we, we need to keep a handle on this." Like, the couple people get mauled.

Duncan Trussell 24:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:23 You know, people start walking through Yellowstone and get attacked. It happens like, a little bit more rapidly. The numbers get to a certain ... And they're like, "These things have no fear of people. Like, we can actually help the population if they hand out bear tags." And people start freaking out, "You can't kill the bears."... you can't kill the bears. Don't you kill the bear-

Duncan Trussell 24:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:42 There's a reason why there's no fucking bears in California, Duncan, only black bears. Th- Our fucking state flag has a grizzly bear on it. Did you ever notice that?

Duncan Trussell 24:49 No.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Yeah. The state flag has a grizzly bear. They eradicated all the grizzly bears-

Duncan Trussell 24:54 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 24:54 ... because they were eating people. So in the fucking 1800s, dude, there's a town, I think it's called Levesque. I think it's called Levesque. It's out near, like, on the way to Bakersfield.

Duncan Trussell 25:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:06 Lebec? Lebec. I think it's called Lebec. B- It's a town named after the last dude that got killed by a grizzly bear in California.

Duncan Trussell 25:13 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Yeah. And to investigate this, they ex- exhumed his body and his legs were fucking ripped apart. Like, his k- you know, knees were snapped in half and shit. I mean-

Duncan Trussell 25:22 You have to destroy this tape.

Joe Rogan 25:23 He got torn apart by a bear, and they, they killed the bear-

Duncan Trussell 25:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:26 ... and they buried him, and that was the last bear. That was the last bear attack. They, they killed all the bears. The reason why they killed all the bears is 'cause that's what you have to do, you fuck.

Duncan Trussell 25:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Do you wanna be able to walk to your car?

Duncan Trussell 25:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:35 Okay. You don't, you don't want bears in Santa Monica. Okay. Shut up. Just shut up, "Oh, no. We're going into their territory, man." They'll come into yours, too. Okay. Stop. Don't be silly. We definitely shouldn't kill all the bears, but you should kill a few. Should definitely kill some. Should kill some wolves, too.

Duncan Trussell 25:52 I disagree, Joe.

Joe Rogan 25:53 What, wolves eat in your family?

Duncan Trussell 25:53 We have to keep everything alive.

Joe Rogan 25:55 I'm gonna bring back pterodactyls.

Duncan Trussell 25:56 I wouldn't mind that.

Joe Rogan 25:58 Snatching people right off of cars.

Duncan Trussell 25:59 Well, come on. They could be controlled. Come on.

Joe Rogan 26:02 Nope.

Duncan Trussell 26:02 They could be controlled. Put them in a, some kind of domed, I don't know, like, padded dome.

Joe Rogan 26:07 You find out they're bulletproof. We never knew they were bulletproof.

Duncan Trussell 26:08 Bring them back. Fuck it.

Joe Rogan 26:10 People would shoot down, and bullets just bouncing down, hitting people on the ground.

Duncan Trussell 26:13 Ju- (laughs) Well-

Joe Rogan 26:15 They have Kevlar skin.

Duncan Trussell 26:16 It's the... What? Th- You know, I saw something, you know, your podcast. It's, like, everywhere now. It's like dandelions ev- You, like, you can't... Anywhere. I'm always getting suggested videos from your podcast.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 26:30 And I saw one, 'cause I've been cutting down my meat consumption.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Good for you.

Duncan Trussell 26:35 And, uh, but that doesn't mean I don't eat meat. I just wanna cut it down a little bit. And, uh, and I have been feeling a kind of enjoyable, from time to time, sense of, you know, that... I don't know if you let yourself do this, you probably don't, but that feeling of, like, kind of bullshit, like, "Oh, I'm a little better now." (laughs) Right?

Joe Rogan 26:56 Yeah. "I'm a little better of a person."

Duncan Trussell 26:58 And I was really, like, I was g- I wasn't, like, overt. It wasn't, like, hyper-obnoxious, you know, eh.

Joe Rogan 27:03 Right.

Duncan Trussell 27:03 But just the kind of sense of, like, "I did it."

Joe Rogan 27:05 Right.

Duncan Trussell 27:05 "I c- I cut down my beef consumption, and I'm eating, you know, I'm eating, you know, a cheese here and there." And anyway, this video popped up, and it's some guest, I don't know who it was, talking about the number of animals that die in a bean field. Like, any bean field that you see-

Joe Rogan 27:22 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 27:23 ... so many animals just ground up and murdered. And, uh, and it was great, 'cause I realized, like, "Oh, of course, yeah, right." You... The trick I was trying to play on myself is the same. It's the 13th floor shit.

Joe Rogan 27:36 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 27:36 It's like, I want the world to look like a Disney film.

Joe Rogan 27:40 But it's a b- it's a bit of a cop-out, even saying that, my, my, my saying that, because the reality is, there's another solution. The solution is organic gardening.

Duncan Trussell 27:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Right? So you can organically garden. If you get a, a, a plot of land and get some friends together, you could all grow enough vegetables so that you don't have to take place in lar- which, l- with large-scale agriculture. Or if you're dealing, rather, with large-scale agriculture. That's the problem. The problem is we have to feed... And just in LA alone, the greater Los Angeles area, what is it, like, 20 million-something people? That's so many goddamn people.

Duncan Trussell 28:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:10 And no one's growing anything other than weed. So what do we have?

Duncan Trussell 28:13 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 28:13 What do we have? We have someone has to grow this fucking food for us. So they have to do it large scale.

Duncan Trussell 28:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:18 (clears throat) And when they do it large scale, it c- it inv- involves combines, and those fucking things are indiscriminate. They're just chewing up the ground. And things get caught up in it, and that's why when they clean fields, when they pick whatever they're growing, you always see vultures. After they run the combine, you see vultures circling the fields 'cause they know, rabbits and rats and-

Duncan Trussell 28:37 Jesus, man.

Joe Rogan 28:37 ... and all kinds of bugs. I mean, any kind of bu- I mean, I don't know if you care about bugs. Which is, that's a weird thing, right? It's like, vegans will get to this, some vegans will get to this, like, line where they're like, "Yeah, but that's a mosquito. Uh, fuck mosquitoes."

Duncan Trussell 28:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:50 "They, they have malaria." You know, you get to, like, a life form ethical boundary-

Duncan Trussell 28:55 That's right.

Joe Rogan 28:55 ... where you can't relate to a roach.

Duncan Trussell 28:57 Also, the hilarious thing when it comes to assigning levels of sentience, and then based on that-

Joe Rogan 29:04 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 29:04 ... deciding if you should eat something or not, you run into, like, a lot of weird problems. Which is like, number one, you're assuming a lot.

Joe Rogan 29:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:12 Just because they don't have the sort of nervous system you have. I mean, and who knows? We project most of everything we are into the world, and we don't really know what the phenomena is. But I saw some, like, video of a little, of an ant taking care of the ant's baby. And I don't know if you, you've probably heard about how trees communicate with the, um-

Joe Rogan 29:33 Mycelium?

Duncan Trussell 29:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:34 And, like, how they'll send nutrients to their children.

Joe Rogan 29:37 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:38 And then, so th- then you start running into, I, I think which is a really fascinating problem, which is, what if it's all alive and sentient and feeling for real? What if the, there is, throughout the entire universe, just a sentient field of consciousness that is interacting with matter in a way that it produces what we call life, and that life is feeling terror, love? Maybe in different ways than we would understand it, but it's still there.

Joe Rogan 30:06 You know, there's, that's, uh, really under consideration by legitimate scientists. In fact, um, Sam Harris's wife just wrote a book about that.

Duncan Trussell 30:13 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 30:14 It's one of the subjects of the... It's called Conscious. And... Conscious or Consciousness. Sorry. I don't remember which. I haven't read it yet, but I heard them talk about it on his podcast. And the concept that used to be, like, super woo-woo was what if everything has consciousness?

Duncan Trussell 30:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:29 What if everything ha- But it just- (clears throat) It can't move, it can't express itself, can't change its environment. It's limited.

Duncan Trussell 30:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 Just like we can't fly and we can't swim underwater and breathe water. Like, we c- we're limited in our physical abilities.

Duncan Trussell 30:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:42 But we assume that whatever limitations that we have, like, this is where it ends, this is where the buck stops here.

Duncan Trussell 30:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Like, everything that doesn't move has gotta be stupid.

Duncan Trussell 30:48 That's it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:48 But it might not be, which is one of the reasons why nobody wants to buy a house after someone's been killed in it.

Duncan Trussell 30:53 Right?

Joe Rogan 30:53 Right? Like, what if that house retains memory? That was something that Rupert Sheldrake proposed a long time ago. You know, he's got that (smacks lips) what is that s- very strange theory where everything is connec- morphic revo- resonance, I think it's called?

Duncan Trussell 31:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:05 Theory of Morphic Resonance. He's a fascinating guy. And he's, like, a guy who's not afraid to take some chances and, and say some really woo-woo shit.

Duncan Trussell 31:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:13 And I think he's a Christian as well.

Duncan Trussell 31:16 Yeah, I love his book. I think you're the one who, like, was telling me some of the studies are not so great in it, though.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Well, it wasn't that I said that, it's that other people had complained about that.

Duncan Trussell 31:25 Oh, right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 And they, they com- because there's some th- there's some studies that apparently people lean on that aren't super legit, like the dog knowing you're coming home one.

Duncan Trussell 31:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:35 Like, you gotta replicate that shit, because first of all, the guy might have a loud car. Dogs can hear shit way better than you can.

Duncan Trussell 31:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:41 Like, how far away is the guy when the dog starts going towards the door? Or does the guy just come home every night and the dog has, like, an internal clock and he knows, "Hey, it's five o'clock. Mike must be coming home."

Duncan Trussell 31:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Like, if you co- does, have they replicated this of a, for 11:30? What if Mike starts coming home in a Tesla where he can't hear shit?

Duncan Trussell 31:59 Who knows?

Joe Rogan 31:59 What if he comes home to the d- does the dog actually know he's coming or is the dog just hearing things? The dog hearing a door, a car?

Duncan Trussell 32:06 I mean, it's almost, isn't it always, doesn't it always kinda seem like the most boring possible, uh, solution is usually the right one? It's like-

Joe Rogan 32:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 32:16 ... what's the most boring thing? The most boring thing is nothing's happening, but you're imagining the dog is somehow s-

Joe Rogan 32:23 Yeah, that's-

Duncan Trussell 32:23 ... has a telepathic link to you.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Occam's razor, right?

Duncan Trussell 32:26 Yeah, occ- Occam's is the simplest-

Joe Rogan 32:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 32:28 ... but it's also the most boring. Like, you know, these, uh-

Joe Rogan 32:31 (coughs)

Duncan Trussell 32:31 ... crazy fucking UFOs. I'm sorry if you've talked about this a bunch on the podcast, but the UFOs that we're seeing that the, you know, navy is releasing these videos of these Tic Tacs zipping around.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 32:42 And it's navy pilots. It's not the people we interviewed in that show. It's navy pilots-

Joe Rogan 32:48 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 32:48 ... who are like, "Yeah, I don't know what the fuck this is." And I was, I have great conversations with Uber drivers and, like, we were talking about it and this guy was like, and a lot of them are programmers and shit. And this guy was like, "It's probably a techni- it's a glitch in the, in the type of radar they're using. I think it must be a glitch. I mean, that's the most likely, uh, reality."

Joe Rogan 33:08 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 33:08 "They're not seeing it with their own eyes."

Joe Rogan 33:10 They're not?

Duncan Trussell 33:11 I don't think so. I think they're just picking it up on radar and so he's like, "It, maybe it's a glitch or maybe it's, like..."

Joe Rogan 33:16 We should find that out. Can you Google, um, if the pilots were picking it up on radar? The pilots spotted UFO, to see if they've, because I know some guys have spotted things with their own eyes.

Duncan Trussell 33:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 33:31 I know, I know for sure some guys have.

Duncan Trussell 33:33 I'm, I just, I'm not sure if the data sa- I think-

Joe Rogan 33:35 Well, it's probably ver- relevant to the conversation, though.

Duncan Trussell 33:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:37 It's a probably a good thing that we know. People listening going, "Yeah, what the fuck?" Um, (sighs) I get super skeptical.

Duncan Trussell 33:44 You have to.

Joe Rogan 33:45 I feel like, I feel like almost like it's a plot. (smacks lips) I don't wanna go full Eddie Bravo, but I feel like when I see people talking about UFOs, I'm like, "Okay, what else is going on? What are you distracting me from?"

Duncan Trussell 33:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:57 "Is this really a big issue?" I was like, "Is it really happening? Well, can I see it? What do you got? Got nothing? Oh, you got, like, some radar. You got radar from one, two pilots, three pilots. Okay, I believe it, but I wanna see more. Why do I wanna see more? Like, what am I..." And you'll get caught up in it. It'll, it'll chew up hours of your day.

Duncan Trussell 34:16 Yeah, man. I know.

Joe Rogan 34:16 There's a lot, a lot of those guys that we ran into on that show, I felt bad for them, because they didn't understand what had happened to them. They'd gotten caught in this weird loop of looking for secrets and looking for mysteries to be solved-

Duncan Trussell 34:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:32 ... and looking for hidden conspiracies.

Duncan Trussell 34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 And they get caught in that. And some of that shit is real, which is part of the problem.

Duncan Trussell 34:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:41 Some of it, you can come across the Gulf of Tonkin and the Northwoods, Operation Northwoods, you can g- come across a bunch of them that are real.

Duncan Trussell 34:48 Sure.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Enron, you could see how they put that together, and you're like, "What?" You could see real crazy conspiring-

Duncan Trussell 34:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:55 ... and then you can get lost and think it's everywhere.

Duncan Trussell 34:58 That's right. Yeah, well, I mean, this is, like... Dude, I was just w-

Joe Rogan 35:02 What is this, Jamie? Oh. According to Dey, the AAVs, what does that mean?

Duncan Trussell 35:09 Is that the new UFO?

Joe Rogan 35:10 It's a newborn? How about you say UFO, you fucks?

Duncan Trussell 35:11 Come on. Yeah, are we really gonna change UFO?

Joe Rogan 35:14 They ha- they'll, like, they have their own little thing. "The A- we're AAVs. We don't refer to us as UFOs."

Duncan Trussell 35:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:20 "These are my pronouns." (laughs) "The AAVs appeared at an altitude greater than 80,000 feet, far higher than commercial or military jets typically fi- fly normally. The prin- PRINSTON's radar team-"

Jamie Vernon 35:35 So it's a radar, really high proc- or PRINSTORY is what it's called. It's, like, a really high processing radar system or something.

Joe Rogan 35:40 Why is it spelled PRINCETON if it's PRINSTORY?

Jamie Vernon 35:43 Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it is PRINCETON. It's just that apostrophe's in a weird spot.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Oh, okay. Um, "The radar team didn't believe what they were seeing, chalking up the anomalies to an eq- equipment malfunction, but after they determined that everything was operating as it should, they began detecting instances which the AAVs..." I wanna know what the fuck that means.

Duncan Trussell 36:02 Come on.

Joe Rogan 36:02 "Dropped with astounding speed to lower, busier airspace. Dey approached the PRINSTON's commander about taking action. He said, 'I was chomping at the bit. I really wanted to intercept these things.'" What?

Duncan Trussell 36:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:14 That's, uh, we have the fucking craziest people in this country.

Duncan Trussell 36:17 I know.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Like, "There's a fucking, there's an alien man. I wanna chase it. I wanna catch it by the tail."

Duncan Trussell 36:21 Catch that motherfucker. I was ch- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:22 "I'm gonna catch it by the tail."

Duncan Trussell 36:23 (laughs) "Put it in a fucking seal."

Joe Rogan 36:24 Anomalous aerial vehicles.

Duncan Trussell 36:26 Oh, come on. You dick.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Get the fuck out of here. There's already a name for it.

Duncan Trussell 36:29 Whoever invented that new name is an ass.

Joe Rogan 36:32 He's an asshole.

Duncan Trussell 36:33 Give us a break.

Joe Rogan 36:34 "Oh, well, I was actually the one who decided to call them AAVs."

Duncan Trussell 36:37 Oh, come on.

Joe Rogan 36:38 "You know, technically it's not an unidentified flying object. It's, uh..."

Duncan Trussell 36:41 You're not taking our fucking UFOs, man. I'm, I'm gonna fight that.

Joe Rogan 36:45 What is it again? What is the exact phrase?

Jamie Vernon 36:47 Anomalous aerial vehicle.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Anomalous aerial vehicle.

Duncan Trussell 36:50 It's an AAV. That's... You're an asshole.

Joe Rogan 36:52 Anomalous.

Duncan Trussell 36:53 Yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 36:53 It's an anomaly. Maybe it's anomalous.

Duncan Trussell 36:54 I, I wanna propose a new name for UFOs. (blows raspberry) Anonymous aerial vehicles.

Joe Rogan 36:59 It's probably a part of a billion-dollar study. "Two f- two fighters were diverted to intercept one of the strange objects. When they first arrived on the scene, the pilots didn't see any flying objects, but they did observe what the lead pilot, Commander David Fravor, later referred to as, 'A disturbance in the ocean.' (gasps) The water was churning with white waves breaking over what looked like a large object just under the surface."

Duncan Trussell 37:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 "Then they noticed one of the objects flying about 50 feet above the water. Fravor, the commander of the elite Black Aces Squadron..." This is a goddamn Nicholas Cage movie.

Duncan Trussell 37:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:34 "... who was a Top Gun program graduate with more than 16 years of flying experience, described it as about 40 feet long, shaped like a Tic Tac candy-"

Duncan Trussell 37:43 Tic Tac.

Joe Rogan 37:43 "... with no obvious means of propulsion. 'It's white, it has no wings, it has no rotors.' I go, 'Holy shit, what is that?'"

Duncan Trussell 37:52 Dude, you know the guy, whoever the company is that makes Tic Tacs-

Joe Rogan 37:56 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 37:56 ... they were like, "Yes! They're calling them Tic Tacs! It's free publicity."

Joe Rogan 38:00 (Takes deep breath) Totally. Tic Tacs is the one sponsoring this whole deal.

Duncan Trussell 38:03 You think it is?

Joe Rogan 38:04 Yeah, man. People are buying Tic Tacs right now listening to this. You just say Tic Tac enough, you're like... Remember those old subliminal things they used to do in movie theaters? When you're watching a movie and it would say, "Hungry? Eat popcorn," like every, like, 50, 100th frame, they would stick like a, "Hungry? Eat popcorn."

Duncan Trussell 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 They would like s-

Duncan Trussell 38:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:21 ... s- put subliminal text on the screen.

Duncan Trussell 38:23 Sure.

Joe Rogan 38:23 You'd be like, "Damn, I want some popcorn." If you just say Tic Tacs-

Duncan Trussell 38:27 Tic Tacs. You could-

Joe Rogan 38:28 ... people are buying Tic Tacs right now.

Duncan Trussell 38:29 Well, we do know that pilot's got great breath, right? I mean-

Joe Rogan 38:32 No.

Duncan Trussell 38:32 ... that's a Tic Tac man.

Joe Rogan 38:34 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 38:34 If like the first time you see-

Joe Rogan 38:35 It's stock.

Duncan Trussell 38:35 ... a UFO, the first thing that pops into your head is, "It looks like a mint," that's nuts. There had to be other ways to describe it.

Joe Rogan 38:41 He's got stock in Tic Tacs, bro. For sure.

Duncan Trussell 38:45 I Googled Tic Tac after he said that to r- 'cause I couldn't remember if they were square or if they were like tic, you know, the, the rectangle.

Joe Rogan 38:51 They look like I would expect a good UFO to look like.

Duncan Trussell 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:55 You know?

Duncan Trussell 38:55 Kind of boring.

Joe Rogan 38:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like super Apple like. Like if Apple made a UFO.

Duncan Trussell 39:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 39:01 It, it's, uh, like a pretty-

Joe Rogan 39:02 Sleek.

Duncan Trussell 39:03 ... pretty sleek.

Joe Rogan 39:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 39:04 But the going into the ocean part, that's the part I like the best, because that kind of lines up with hollow Earth theory-

Joe Rogan 39:11 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 39:11 ... and that, and like th- maybe like-

Joe Rogan 39:12 Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 39:12 ... they're flying down-

Joe Rogan 39:13 They have a base.

Duncan Trussell 39:14 ... yeah, in the, in the center of the Earth.

Joe Rogan 39:16 Of course they have a base in the earth. Why wouldn't you have a base in the ocean? We never go there.

Duncan Trussell 39:19 Do you-

Joe Rogan 39:19 You ever fly over... I was just in Hawaii, you fly over five hours of water. It's just water.

Duncan Trussell 39:25 Oh, yeah. Well, that's that Strava-

Joe Rogan 39:26 Baseless.

Duncan Trussell 39:26 ... app thing. I feel like we've talked about literally every... You know, the Strava app? When-

Joe Rogan 39:29 Shh. Don't worry about it.

Duncan Trussell 39:30 Okay, good. (breathes deeply) It's great, man. I love that-

Joe Rogan 39:32 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 39:32 ... I have to think if... I'm pretty sure we've talked about this, the heat maps, the Strava heat maps that seem to show people walking under the ocean and stuff.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Walking?

Duncan Trussell 39:41 Yeah. We haven't?

Jamie Vernon 39:43 That's what I thought.

Joe Rogan 39:43 No.

Duncan Trussell 39:43 Oh. And so, yeah, 'cause like Strava, you know, is like, um... I think it was Strava, right? It was like a way for you to track your steps.

Joe Rogan 39:49 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 39:50 And some people apparently are in some bases in the Arctic or in the ocean-

Joe Rogan 39:54 Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Duncan Trussell 39:54 ... walking around and it showed up before they could like turn that function off for top secret facilities, like the places they blur out on Google Maps.

Joe Rogan 40:03 So do you think there's like a military base under the water somewhere where the submarines go?

Duncan Trussell 40:08 God, man, you know, I wanna think that, but I'm always-

Joe Rogan 40:11 Like in that movie The Meg?

Duncan Trussell 40:12 Yeah, I think it's probably a m- a technical error, but fuck, maybe. I mean, I don't know. It's like the, the implication of these Tic Tacs and all of it, if you really wanna like... The first, to me, the most obvious one minus the churning water evidence is that it's some kind of equipment malfunction.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Well, it's also that they have an unlimited budget for black ops.

Duncan Trussell 40:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:36 We don't know what that number is.

Duncan Trussell 40:37 That's right.

Joe Rogan 40:38 We don't get to know.

Duncan Trussell 40:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:39 Right? All that weird shit they do when they're making stealth bombers and all that Area 51 stuff.

Duncan Trussell 40:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Like, how much money goes to that? Like, what is the number? Like, let's Google this. How much does the US spend on black ops?

Jamie Vernon 40:54 I had... (clears throat) I was gonna bring this up in the middle of what you guys were talking. Uh, there's a program here that was going on, the AA- AATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was going on-

Joe Rogan 41:07 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 41:07 ... and how to budget-

Joe Rogan 41:08 (laughs) Just the AATIP.

Jamie Vernon 41:10 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 41:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:10 I'm just... I'm gonna fuck you out of your money, but I'm just gonna use the AATIP.

Jamie Vernon 41:14 (laughs) 22 million is what their budget was in 2012.

Duncan Trussell 41:17 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 41:17 And this said that-

Duncan Trussell 41:19 A lot of money.

Jamie Vernon 41:19 ... it doesn't still go on, but apparently it does. Luis Elizondo was- says it was still operating and, uh, he is part of To The Stars Academy.

Joe Rogan 41:25 So they spent $22 million to see if the UFOs were a threat?

Jamie Vernon 41:29 A year, I guess.

Joe Rogan 41:30 And then there's the To The Stars Academy.

Jamie Vernon 41:32 Yeah. That's where he is now.

Joe Rogan 41:32 That's, uh, that's Tom DeLonge stuff.

Jamie Vernon 41:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:35 So. Well.

Jamie Vernon 41:36 Some of it's still going on.

Joe Rogan 41:37 It's all... So listen, I am, I'm fucking rooting for it. I want it to be real. I would love it if it was real.

Duncan Trussell 41:44 But if you look at like the history of the great ideas, a lot of them did come from, uh, like weird moments.

Joe Rogan 41:53 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 41:53 You know, like Tesla, like basically had a seizure and felt like it was being contacted by something.

Joe Rogan 41:58 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 41:58 Like, you do run into stories of, at the very least, inspiration, but quite often innovation coming to people via like weird-

Joe Rogan 42:09 Like a transmission almost.

Duncan Trussell 42:11 ... like transmission. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:12 Well, I have, I've been thinking this for a long time, that maybe ideas are living things. And these ideas, even though they... You think of them as something your brain's creating-And maybe your brain is creating it.

Duncan Trussell 42:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:27 But maybe it uses your brain to create it so that it can manifest itself in the real world.

Duncan Trussell 42:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:33 So when you have ideas, whether they are ideas that turn out to be art or music, like, you know, Jimi Hendrix comes out with Voodoo Child, you're, y- you are inspired by that.

Duncan Trussell 42:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:44 You see it, it gives you a great feeling, you exchange currency to listen to it. I mean, just that one song. How much money has been generated by Voodoo Child? I mean, it's one of the greatest songs in the history-

Duncan Trussell 42:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:54 ... of the known universe. It's the opening guitar riff, I've listened to that 1,000 times, easy. I listen to it all the time. Whenever I'm, I'm like, I need a pick-me-up... (singing)

Duncan Trussell 43:06 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:07 I mean, it's just, it's a masterpiece, it's a masterpiece of music. And where'd that idea come from? Well, it came from his brain, right? But where was it before it was in his brain? Well, how did his brain cook it up? And what is it? What are these things that are just floating around that you grab-

Duncan Trussell 43:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:22 ... out of culture? And how do you turn them into something that people go crazy for?

Duncan Trussell 43:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:27 'Cause occasionally a guy will take one of those ideas and make Voodoo Child, or, you know, make, uh, someone else's song, or make someone else's-

Duncan Trussell 43:35 Sure.

Joe Rogan 43:35 ... painting or, or, you know, make a fucking building that's inspiring. There's these things that come into your head.

Duncan Trussell 43:41 That's right.

Joe Rogan 43:42 And you're, you, y- at the end, what they really do is they're like the eggs of objects, because they, they come to your mind, you think about them, and then you say, "I'm gonna make a fucking clock."

Duncan Trussell 43:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:55 And you start making a clock.

Duncan Trussell 43:57 That's right.

Joe Rogan 43:57 It's like, where is that coming from? Where, oh, it's just your creativity and it's just your mind, it's just your imagination. And, well, it's just your thought process, your synapses firing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. We're all, you're absolutely right. There's no real woo-woo. Or is there? What the fuck is a thought? Figure that out. No one knows what that is.

Duncan Trussell 44:16 No one... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:16 Especially, where are, where are they coming from? Y- I mean, how many times you've read or written a joke and you laugh at yourself as you're writing? Like, where the fuck did that come from?

Duncan Trussell 44:25 Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, or saying any... Sometimes, like, you're watching sentences come out of your mouth and you're sort of-

Joe Rogan 44:30 Sometimes.

Duncan Trussell 44:30 You, you don't feel like, yeah-

Joe Rogan 44:32 Every day.

Duncan Trussell 44:32 Every day, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:33 All the time.

Duncan Trussell 44:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:34 Right now.

Duncan Trussell 44:35 Where's the, you know, who's articulating it? There's a, this, um, I've been studying Buddhism, and any Buddhists out there, if I fuck this up, I'm sorry, if you, if you're more advanced or know more about it. So I'm probably gonna say the words wrong and stuff. It's really interesting. So it's like, there's like eight consciousnesses. Uh, I think it's eight, and the sixth one is your thought.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 44:57 The continuum of thoughts, right? So that's like where most people hang out and they think that's who they are, is the infinite cycle of repeating thoughts in their head. So-

Joe Rogan 45:06 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 45:07 Below that is your senses, and then the one right above that is w- the seventh, and that's what is considered your subconscious in the West. But, um, so that's where all your memories are, that's where all your, uh, like, uh, just all the shit you can't remember that happened to you, that, uh, that, that's stuck back there that appears in people's art or appears in your neurosis or whatever. And then above that is the eighth consciousness, and that's the stored experience of all human beings. And-

Joe Rogan 45:42 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 45:42 ... it's happening, it's like the global mind, or it's-

Joe Rogan 45:45 Akashic Records?

Duncan Trussell 45:46 Yeah. Oh, yeah, the Akashic Records, yeah. And, and so basically that one drips down like a, like water in a cave, it drips down into your subconscious, which drips down into your thoughts. So when you're having these thoughts, according to this model, uh, it's not necessarily your thoughts. You're getting a kind of distillate that's rolling down through the global mind, being flavored by your subconscious, and then being flavored by your identity or who you think you are. And then, so by the time it comes out of you, it's got you wrapped up inside of it.

Joe Rogan 46:22 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 46:22 But it's a projection of some like shared mind. It's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 46:28 That makes ac- that makes actual sense.

Duncan Trussell 46:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:31 I know that sounds like crazy voodoo hippie talk, but it actually makes sense-

Duncan Trussell 46:35 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:36 ... that we all know that there's something that we share. There's so- and we, we all feed off of each other. I mean, you and I have said this many times, that I am a different person with you.

Duncan Trussell 46:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:47 Like, we're different together. And we're different with other people as well. I mean, that's how human beings are. When we, when we interact with each other, we have this b- a bonding thing. There's a, a, a, there's a, an interaction thing.

Duncan Trussell 46:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:59 And that's why some people are toxic for you. I mean, the idea that you're supposed to stay with everyone-

Duncan Trussell 47:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:04 ... is like crazy. Like some people are just not good for you, it's not a good mix. You know, you're not good for them, they're not good for you, get out.

Duncan Trussell 47:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:11 But the, there's something that's going on, it's not you just as an individual. And then when we were talking about gut biome and, uh, and that as well.

Duncan Trussell 47:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:19 I mean, you're, you're, you're also sharing y- gut biome with each other, you're sharing DNA with each other.

Duncan Trussell 47:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:25 You're sharing skin, there's, there's little organisms living on your body. When you hug people with no shirt on, you're sharing organisms.

Duncan Trussell 47:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:34 It's one of the reasons why it feels good, I bet.

Duncan Trussell 47:36 Yeah. Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 47:37 You know? I mean, it's probably a great way to swap organisms to keep them spreading.

Duncan Trussell 47:40 You are, I mean, yeah, it benefits your biome if like-

Joe Rogan 47:43 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:43 ... it wants to, like, pollinate or g- g- get out into the world, for sure.

Joe Rogan 47:47 I was, I was reading about, I was listening actually, listening to a podcast. Uh, the Steven Rinella podcast, The Meateater, and there was a guy on who was an expert in moving wildlife around, how they, like, sometimes they'll move wolves into certain particular areas. They had too many moose in this one island, and so they moved wolves in. But the wolves, there wasn't enough of them and they w- they were on an island, so they all started fucking each other and they were fucking their kids, and th- their, th- their DNA just was a mess.

Duncan Trussell 48:14 Uh.

Joe Rogan 48:14 Yeah, just all sorts of inbreeding and it was just terrible. Like, which is also fascinating. It's like, nature's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. You can't s- just stand around and fuck each other. You gotta get out there."

Duncan Trussell 48:26 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:26 Like nature, even with animals, nature's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. This is not the game we're playing."

Duncan Trussell 48:31 You gotta move.

Joe Rogan 48:31 The, the game we're playing is not male and female. The game we're playing is male that doesn't know female. That's the game.

Duncan Trussell 48:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Because you can't fuck your sister and you can't fuck your mom.

Duncan Trussell 48:39 No.

Joe Rogan 48:39 Stop. If you, you could do it a few times, but after a while, your kids are just not gonna come out good.... which is weird, right? Like, how come if you're good and your sister's good, how come if you have sex, there's a high likelihood that the kid won't be good? There's something wrong with the child. And if the child fucks the sister, and then they have a child, it's even more likely.

Duncan Trussell 48:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:00 If that, you know what I mean? This is what inbreeding is, and this is one of the reasons why you have a lot of problems with certain dog species.

Duncan Trussell 49:05 Sure.

Joe Rogan 49:05 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a weird little thing that nature's got built into it.

Duncan Trussell 49:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:10 Nature's like, "Keep moving, bitch. Keep touching each other, keep spreading the biome."

Duncan Trussell 49:15 You gotta move.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Yeah. Gotta-

Duncan Trussell 49:16 No matter what you are.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Swap and spit.

Duncan Trussell 49:18 That's-

Joe Rogan 49:18 Keep it moving.

Duncan Trussell 49:19 Have you seen that Planet Earth with that poor sloth? That poor, horny, lonely sloth?

Joe Rogan 49:23 He's horny? How do you know?

Duncan Trussell 49:24 I'm pretty sure it was a sloth. It was some kind of slow-moving tree creature, and they set it up. You know, I don't know how much of it is real, like how much of it is they're just f- filming animals and telling a story about them. But this sloth is horny, like, bl- it howls out into the forest, like, (howls) and it hears, like, a shriek-

Joe Rogan 49:42 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 49:42 ... of an, of a woman, a female, like, meh. And it's like, "Oh, fuck." You know, it's, they-

Joe Rogan 49:47 Look at that.

Duncan Trussell 49:47 Yeah. This poor guy, look how fu-... Can you get it from where he's in the tree? Are we allowed to show this?

Joe Rogan 49:51 So he doesn't-

Jamie Vernon 49:51 I'm not showing it, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Don't show it. So he, he doesn't have a girlfriend? That's what's up?

Duncan Trussell 49:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:55 He's an incel?

Duncan Trussell 49:56 He's climbed-

Joe Rogan 49:57 The incel of the sloth world?

Duncan Trussell 49:58 This is, and it's incel sloth. It's not, because this one's actually wo- you can see th- uh, this sloth is going for it. It's like, it's not staying (laughs) in his apartment on the internet. It's-

Joe Rogan 50:07 Bro.

Duncan Trussell 50:08 ... it's leaving his tree, swimming across an ocean, climbing up another tree.

Joe Rogan 50:13 But what a dirty trick nature played on this motherfucker, to have him move so slow, everyone can catch you.

Duncan Trussell 50:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:21 It's like, nature's like, "Listen, you guys are too fucking stupid. There's too many of you. We're gonna have to have it so eagles pick you off." So they have 'em so slow, literally no one can miss them. What a goddamn dirty trick. You ever see a bear run? They run fast.

Duncan Trussell 50:35 Yeah. It's-

Joe Rogan 50:36 You ever see a fucking wolf or a coyote run?

Duncan Trussell 50:39 No.

Joe Rogan 50:39 They're ridiculous. This poor bastard? This poor bastard is going so slow, it looks like he's on slow-mo. Like, we're looking at the leaves-

Duncan Trussell 50:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:47 ... the leaves are moving at a normal speed, but he looks like he's on fucking slow-mo.

Duncan Trussell 50:51 He looks like he's been eating benzos for the last nine months-

Joe Rogan 50:54 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 50:54 ... like just fucked up. He's got a infinite Xanax prescription, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:00 Yeah. He's barely getting by.

Duncan Trussell 51:02 Yeah. What a, we must look so fast to them, like to them, we must seem terrifying in how quickly we're moving.

Joe Rogan 51:10 How about the eagles? You know, what is that eagle that, that gets them in South America? The harpy eagle? Is that what it is? The biggest eagle on earth?

Duncan Trussell 51:19 I didn't know harpies ate sloths.

Joe Rogan 51:21 All they eat is monkeys and sloths.

Duncan Trussell 51:23 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 51:24 That's their favorite shit. They snatch these sloths out of the tree. "Bitch, get over here."

Duncan Trussell 51:28 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 51:28 And then they just dump, dump, dump, dump, dump.

Duncan Trussell 51:30 Whoa, dude.

Jamie Vernon 51:31 There's a fight.

Joe Rogan 51:32 What is it?

Jamie Vernon 51:32 A fight.

Duncan Trussell 51:33 A f- a fight between this-

Joe Rogan 51:34 A fight between them?

Jamie Vernon 51:34 There's a fight, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Whoa.

Jamie Vernon 51:35 The sloth fights back.

Joe Rogan 51:36 Oh my God, the sloth's fighting back.

Jamie Vernon 51:37 It's the young eagle at this.

Joe Rogan 51:37 Oh, that's a real young eagle. That's a baby.

Duncan Trussell 51:39 What kind of fight is that? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:40 Oh, the, the sloth is actually swinging at the eagle. Imagine that.

Jamie Vernon 51:44 Sorta.

Joe Rogan 51:44 He'd be like, "What are you doing, man?"

Duncan Trussell 51:46 (laughs) It's more like when someone's trying to wake you up, it's like, "Get out of here."

Joe Rogan 51:49 No, that's like a drunk guy at a bar, and you're trying not to fuck him up. You're like-

Duncan Trussell 51:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:53 ... "Please don't make me hit you." (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 51:55 That is exactly it. And the eagle seems perplexed by it.

Joe Rogan 51:59 Yeah, but y- you see the harpy eagle kill one-

Jamie Vernon 52:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:03 ... because it's crazy, man. They just swoop down. They are so enormous. And one of these guys... First of all, kudos to all these wildlife biologists that actually go down there and risk their ass.

Duncan Trussell 52:14 Natural.

Joe Rogan 52:14 Look at that, boom. Hold on, back that up again.

Duncan Trussell 52:17 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 52:18 Motherfucker. Boom.

Duncan Trussell 52:20 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 52:21 That is a big, killer bird, and he just snatches that poor little guy. Um, but someone had to be there t- to film that. And there was one of them that I watched on the harpy eagle, which is a b- beautiful animal, where this guy who was a photographer, who was one of the scientists who's s- studying them, got attacked. (laughs) The eagle swooped in and fucking s-

Duncan Trussell 52:41 Ah.

Joe Rogan 52:42 ... took a swing at him.

Duncan Trussell 52:43 Je- was he okay?

Joe Rogan 52:44 Y- yeah, barely. But, I mean, that gets sketchy, when a 25-pound flying bird with knives coming out of its feet is trying to snatch you.

Duncan Trussell 52:52 Wow.

Joe Rogan 52:52 I mean, something that can literally carry a fish. Can you imagine how strong your hand would be if you could shove your hand into the river, snatch a salmon, and pull it out with one hand?

Duncan Trussell 53:01 I'm gonna be honest, it's that strong. I do that. That's how I fish.

Jamie Vernon 53:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:04 That's amazing.

Duncan Trussell 53:05 I love the feeling of-

Joe Rogan 53:06 You should make a YouTube video.

Duncan Trussell 53:07 I don't wanna film myself out in nature. You know how it is. I-

Joe Rogan 53:10 Just (whip slapping sounds)

Duncan Trussell 53:11 ... prefer to... That's my private time in the wild.

Joe Rogan 53:14 (laughs) Bro, they just snatch them, and then they fly with them.

Duncan Trussell 53:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:16 They're so fucking strong.

Duncan Trussell 53:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:18 If that thing was coming after you, and I think the harpy eagle's probably even bigger than 25 pounds. I think 25 pounds is like a big bald eagle.

Duncan Trussell 53:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:26 I'm thinking the harpy eagle's even larger than that.

Duncan Trussell 53:29 Dude, one of my friends told me something that has always kinda creeped me out. It's obviously probably not true, but like, you know, humans-

Joe Rogan 53:36 Those are my favorite things.

Duncan Trussell 53:37 Yeah, mine too.

Joe Rogan 53:38 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 53:38 University of Bro Science. Uh-

Jamie Vernon 53:40 11.

Joe Rogan 53:41 He's 11 pounds?

Jamie Vernon 53:42 Yeah, that's what it says.

Joe Rogan 53:42 That's it?

Jamie Vernon 53:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:43 What's the heaviest eagle? Wow, I'm off big time. I guess that makes sense though, because like a turkey is-

Jamie Vernon 53:50 Hm.

Joe Rogan 53:50 ... like a giant turkey is like a 20-pound turkey, right?

Jamie Vernon 53:52 This is, the, the Steller's sea eagle is, average weight, 15 pounds.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Oh, wow. Fuck.

Jamie Vernon 53:58 Philippine eagle, 14 pounds. Harpy eagle, 13.1.

Joe Rogan 54:01 No shit. Why have, why do I feel like we've done this before?

Jamie Vernon 54:03 I don't know. I feel like you were... I thought you were right though, but maybe it's just... It's been done before.

Duncan Trussell 54:06 I ga-... I, if I was in Vegas-

Joe Rogan 54:08 Oh, oh.

Duncan Trussell 54:08 ... and I had to bet whether or not you looked up the weight of the biggest eagle, I would bet a million dollars that you have definitely looked that up before.

Joe Rogan 54:14 I know what it is. I know exactly what it is. It's, uh, I got it confused with an, with an extinct eagle in New Zealand that was enormous, that they think hunted people, and that one was 25 pounds. And I was shocked that that's, it was only 25 pounds. It's called the Haast eagle.

Jamie Vernon 54:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:28 H-A-A-S-T.

Jamie Vernon 54:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:30 Show a picture of what that fucking thing was like.

Jamie Vernon 54:31 It says, "None of them verified to exceed 20 pounds, but they"-

Joe Rogan 54:35 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 54:35 ... "think they were bigger," yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:36 See, that's it. That's where I fucked up. I was looking at this thing, and I was like-

Jamie Vernon 54:40 Wow.

Joe Rogan 54:40 ... "Why is it only 20 pounds or 25 pounds?" Because you look at the size of it, like it was fucking huge, and they really think they might have hunted humans.

Duncan Trussell 54:48 ... Jesus.

Joe Rogan 54:49 They think that's, that might be why the people, uh, I think it was New Zealand, why the people in New Zealand wiped 'em out. And this was, like, before the white man came and fucked everything up.

Duncan Trussell 54:58 Did you see-

Joe Rogan 54:59 It's just-

Duncan Trussell 54:59 ... that documentary on falconeering?

Joe Rogan 55:01 No. Which one is that?

Duncan Trussell 55:02 It's this woman who's like... I wish I could remember her name, but she, like, goes up to, I think, like, Tibet, and they, like, took her in and taught her how to, like, hunt, 'cause it's, the way they hunt with birds.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 55:14 And, like, the whole relationship you have, you sort of have to raise the falcon from a baby, and they're, like, connected to it. But it's the most insane thing to witness, 'cause it's such a remote place, and it's such a, like, traditional people. They don't watch TV. They don't know, you know, they're not, like, absorbed in shit like we are. They're just out there hunting with giant birds. And, you know, they figured out how to do that.

Joe Rogan 55:44 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 55:44 You know, that's, to me, all the stuff, like horse ride, any, any human/animal relationship, when you think back to the first person who saw a falcon and was like, "I'm gonna catch it, and I'm gonna train it to catch rabbits so we can eat."

Joe Rogan 56:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:02 How?

Joe Rogan 56:02 How?

Duncan Trussell 56:03 How?

Joe Rogan 56:04 How?

Duncan Trussell 56:04 That shit is...

Jamie Vernon 56:06 I don't know if this is the exact documentary, but this is one on it called The Challenge, where th- th-

Duncan Trussell 56:12 T- that-

Joe Rogan 56:12 Ta-

Duncan Trussell 56:12 That's not it, but that's, it's, these are, like, in-

Jamie Vernon 56:15 They're grinding them with-

Duncan Trussell 56:15 This looks like Saudi Arabia. These are, like, some kind of-

Joe Rogan 56:17 They're sharpening the claws?

Jamie Vernon 56:18 Yeah. This is them sharpening the beak here in a second, too.

Joe Rogan 56:20 And what are they using them to hunt?

Jamie Vernon 56:21 I, it seems like they're having an event here, so I don't know.

Joe Rogan 56:24 Oh, they're sharpening their beak?

Duncan Trussell 56:26 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 56:26 What the fuck?

Jamie Vernon 56:28 I don't know.

Duncan Trussell 56:28 Yeah, this wasn't it. This is another version. They're watching soccer.

Joe Rogan 56:31 Bro!

Duncan Trussell 56:31 They're riding on sand dunes.

Joe Rogan 56:33 These guys are driving Land Cruisers in the middle of the desert somewhere.

Duncan Trussell 56:37 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 56:37 With GoPros on 'em and shit.

Duncan Trussell 56:38 They're in Land Cruisers. They-

Joe Rogan 56:39 Whoa! Oh, and they're letting go pigeons.

Duncan Trussell 56:41 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 56:41 And the pigeons are gonna get jacked.

Jamie Vernon 56:42 Wow.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Oh, my God.

Jamie Vernon 56:44 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Oh, my God. They got a room full of pigeons.

Jamie Vernon 56:47 Yeah. Well, that's interesting.

Joe Rogan 56:47 Or are those falcons?

Jamie Vernon 56:48 Yeah, probably falcons.

Joe Rogan 56:49 Well...

Duncan Trussell 56:50 No, those are... I can't tell.

Jamie Vernon 56:51 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 56:51 Which one's the pigeon?

Jamie Vernon 56:52 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 56:53 Those are-

Joe Rogan 56:53 Some of them have to be pigeons, right?

Duncan Trussell 56:54 Those are pigeons.

Joe Rogan 56:56 So what is The Challenge, like, who jacks the most pigeons? The fuck is that? Wait a minute. It's called The Challenge, the name of the movie?

Jamie Vernon 57:02 The movie is called The Challenge, yeah, it's a documentary that came out and won awards a couple years ago.

Joe Rogan 57:05 Really?

Jamie Vernon 57:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:06 And it's just about falcons jacking pigeons?

Jamie Vernon 57:09 I thought this was the one he was talking about-

Joe Rogan 57:11 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 57:11 ... but apparently it's not.

Joe Rogan 57:13 I wanna watch that one. (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 57:14 So I might have multiple, I might have multiple cool falconry documentaries.

Joe Rogan 57:15 (laughs) These guys are sharpening the pea- the beaks and sharpening the claws.

Duncan Trussell 57:19 Dude, this is gonna be your next thing.

Joe Rogan 57:20 Wow, falconry.

Duncan Trussell 57:21 You're gonna get into falconeering. The next time I come here, you're gonna have a falcon-

Joe Rogan 57:25 Birdcages, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 57:25 ... some kind of, like...

Joe Rogan 57:27 One of them, uh, M- Mongolian dudes with the fur hat, the o- the ring-

Duncan Trussell 57:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:31 ... with the fucking spike on the top of it.

Duncan Trussell 57:33 That is the one. That's it, Mongolian f-

Joe Rogan 57:35 Who are these guys driving around with a goddamn cheetah?

Jamie Vernon 57:36 I found this article about the, about this movie.

Joe Rogan 57:38 Oh, wow. No shit.

Jamie Vernon 57:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah, the dudes have crazy money, man. They just have to figure out some way to ball, so they, they get killer birds.

Duncan Trussell 57:48 Look at those chairs.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Dude, birds are an amazing thing. If you, if you really watch them and see them in the wild, like, do their thing, like g- snatch a fish out of the water or... It, what it is, is a, a raptor, it's a flying raptor that just, we tolerate it 'cause it's small, but we probably killed all the ones that could kill us.

Duncan Trussell 58:11 Well, yeah, right?

Joe Rogan 58:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:12 There were, like, giant, giant eagles at some point, for sure.

Joe Rogan 58:16 Look at the fucking eyes in that thing, man. Look at that. Look at the eyes on that thing. It has a giant... If that was a big thing, like the size of you, coming at you, and trying to kill you and eat you, first of all, you'd be totally helpless. If that thing was your size, you would be 100%-

Duncan Trussell 58:34 It's fucked.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Every human being would be 100% helpless. They, those things are so strong. It would grab ahold of you with its feet. It would start ripping you apart with that fucking bolt cutter-

Duncan Trussell 58:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:44 ... it has growing out-

Duncan Trussell 58:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:44 ... of its face.

Duncan Trussell 58:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 Fuck, man.

Duncan Trussell 58:48 It would just, s- just, that fucking thing would be the size of a sword, like a samurai-

Joe Rogan 58:53 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:53 ... sword that would just be smashing in, ripping your guts out. You'd be able, you'd probably still be alive for a second to watch it-

Joe Rogan 59:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 59:01 ... take a, like, taste of your guts.

Joe Rogan 59:03 Yeah, it would probably be, like, the size of one of Shaq's shoes, right? That would be his beak.

Jamie Vernon 59:12 Size 22? Something like that.

Joe Rogan 59:12 Yeah, like a beak, right? If you looked at his beak-

Duncan Trussell 59:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:16 ... big ass shoe.

Duncan Trussell 59:17 Huge knife.

Joe Rogan 59:18 Big fucking head.

Duncan Trussell 59:19 Ugh, ugh.

Joe Rogan 59:20 Head this big.

Duncan Trussell 59:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:21 Big ass shoe for a... Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 59:24 Carrying you-

Joe Rogan 59:25 Fuck, man.

Duncan Trussell 59:25 ... to feed its babies, right? That's what they do. Do they-

Joe Rogan 59:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 59:28 Or do they eat you first and puke you into the baby's mouth?

Joe Rogan 59:30 Yeah, and they eat other birds too. They eat whatever the fuck they want. Those things are always fu- you know, I used to find them headless in my backyard. There was, like, a little bit of a war between the, uh, the hawks in my yard.

Duncan Trussell 59:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:41 We, we had put in this glass fence in the back of the yard, and the hawks couldn't figure out the fence, and they fucking (imitates hawk hitting glass fence) dank, and they, a couple of them got KO'd. One of them, one of them we managed to save. We brought him to, like, a wildlife rescue place, and they rehabilitated him and saved him. But a couple of them died. And then we would find dead hawk... So I think that one of them was, like, the dominant hawk, and he died, and then other ones just started moving into the area. Like, they were flying around my chicken coop, and, like, little juvenile hawks-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 ... who were kind of assholes, almost like teenagers.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 I was like, "What the fuck is going on here?" And then I'd find one of them with his head missing.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:16 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Like, so, like, some other hawk killed it and ripped its fucking head off, and a bigger hawk left it in my yard, dead with no head. I was-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:25 Like a message.

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 ... and I was trying to figure out, "What the fuck eats something's head?" But apparently, that's something that a ha- a hawk will do to, they'll do to each other.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:33 So it's like the equivalent of, like, the Mad Max putting your enemy's head on a spike in front of your area?

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 Yes. You, you claim you own, like, all his friends get to see his headless body when you shit on it when you fly over. (imitates hawk flying and hitting Joe)

Duncan Trussell 1:00:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 Find out if that's true. That might be a lie. Do hawk- (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:00:50 Have you... Who cares?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Do hawks...

Duncan Trussell 1:00:50 It's true.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 But I wanna find out if hawks, 'cause I be- I'm almost, we're very high right now, ladies and gentlemen.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 But I'm pretty sure that I read that when I found the headless bird in my yard.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:00 Have you seen the Tibetan sky burial shit?

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:03 Yeah, that stuff's cool, man. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 That's crazy.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:05 Yeah, it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 Tell people what it is.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:07 Uh, that's when you, um-... basically, instead of cremation, your friends hack your body up into pieces and take it to where there are vultures. Buzzards? I'm not sure which.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Vultures. I think they're vultures.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:21 Vultures scatter your body, they descend on it, they eat it, and all that's left is bones.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 They even smash the head so that the vultures can get inside the head.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:29 Get your brain, all your memories.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Mm. (sighs)

Duncan Trussell 1:01:32 And then, I just saw this incredible documentary on the history of, I think it was the Himalayas, there's a- c- civilizations there. Because, like, they're, genetically, they... It's why the Sherpas are able to help people. Like, they h- are able to take oxygen in more. There's some kind of-

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:49 ... split that happened-

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:51 ... at that- at that high an altitude, but, like, these fucking crazy scientists were rappelling down the side of these cliff faces and going into tombs-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:01 ... in the side of cliffs, and looking at these bones of these people where they're not sure of what their history is. And, like, they'd been pecked by birds, you know, so they were like, "Oh, okay. They were doing the sky burial even now."

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:15 But some of them had spikes nailed into them. (laughs) It was like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 So, like, they- they nailed them?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:20 They were vampires or something, like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 Oh my God.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:22 ... maybe there was, like, a zombie, like, who knows what the fuck happened? But back then, they thought that, you know, w- I mean, even in western graveyards, you'll find-

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Spikes through what part of their body?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:33 ... I think their chests or their heads. I think it was-

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 So somebody killed them-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:37 Oh, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... and then left the birds as, you know-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:38 It was post-death-

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Oh, really? For sure?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:39 ... as part of their ritual. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty sure. Not for sure, but pretty sure. But that was not uncommon.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Jealous.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:46 I mean, we, there's so many examples of finding, like, graves that have spikes hammered in them, because people thought that the body was a vampire. That didn't come from nowhere.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 You think that there was s- a time when bodies used to come back to life and that parasite's dead now?

Duncan Trussell 1:03:04 No.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 No?

Duncan Trussell 1:03:05 I think there was a fucking time where people's neocortex hadn't formed enough to separate their subconscious from their conscious, so they were, like, hallucinating more.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:14 And also, they were, like, they had a kind of, they were projecting a lot of crazy shit into the world.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Also, imagine when you found out that you could lie, like the first liars.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 'Cause it's like, there were people that would have language, and then people, once they started communicating, like, "Hey, who fucking ate the tomatoes?" "Psh, not me." (gasps) And you realize you can get away with that.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 You could lie and say you didn't eat tomatoes when you did. Who was the first liar? 'Cause before language, there was no liars. There's no liars in the lion kingdom. It's not even a concept, 'cause you- you can't have a lie until you have communication.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:54 Well, you could say there's d- I guess you could say lying is the equivalent of camouflage, in the sense that when you see a- some of these insane, like, uh, animals, b- bugs in particular, that look like flowers-

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 Mm-hmm. Sure.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:10 ... that look like, you know, it-

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 That's, yeah, that's a lie, in a way.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:11 ... it's a form of deception.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:12 It's a form of evolutionary deception. So, yeah, I think that, like, it's a linguistic, it's a linguistic camouflage that people use to try to, like, navigate through society.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 Not just people. Monkeys.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:25 And monkeys, too.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 Monkeys use language and they lie to each other.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 They found out that monkeys have a very specific sound they make when it's an eagle, and they have an other sound that they make when it's a cat, like something on the ground. So, they have something for up high-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 ... and something on the ground. And so one monkey will yell out something like, "Oh, an eagle's coming." The other monkeys scatter, and then he gets the fruit.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 He's like, "Ha ha!"

Duncan Trussell 1:04:50 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 "Fucking bitches." (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:04:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 And then they'll- they'll yell that something's on the ground, they'll run up to the trees. They lie to each other.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:57 To me, one of the funniest fucking thing is how much we lie to ourselves.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:02 That's where it gets amazing. It's like, you know, you were talking about, and I've done the exact same thing with screen time, when you're presented that humiliating number of hours-

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:12 ... and you've been telling friends you're busy, and you're fucking looking at that just thinking like, "Dude, I've been, like, you know, looking at bullshit." But then, before you do that, you're like, "But it's my job, you know, I've got to kind of be online." It's like, no, you're addicted to technology, and because you can't stand the fact that you don't have the discipline to stop using it, you would rather make up a story involving some absolutely verifiable bullshit so that you don't have to deal with the fact that you aren't in full control of yourself.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 And it's a non-rewarding addiction, which is really strange. It's like when you're looking at stories on, like, the Apple news feed or something, and you're scrolling, looking for something that's gonna captivate you.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 What is, oh, uh, Apple having problems with their keyboards? (fake cries)

Duncan Trussell 1:05:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 And you start reading this, and it's like, "Oh, you can't, Huawei can't sell laptops in the US anymore." Like, how much of that am I, like you were saying earlier, how much of that is junk thoughts?

Duncan Trussell 1:06:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 These are junk thoughts, like junk food.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:09 Junk food.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 You're just consuming.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:11 Consuming... And I don't think it's useless. I think it serves a purpose. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Some of it does.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:16 If, I mean, in the sense of, maybe not a purpose in the way you're gonna be as a human, but a purpose in the sense of, like, if you apply a little bit of, like, mindfulness when you're using your phone, "How do I feel right now?" You know what I'm talking about?

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Yeah. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:31 Like, "How do I fucking feel?" You'll realize you feel a specific way. It's a kind of, like, numbness. There's a quality of, like, a kind of, like, sedated numbness to the hypnotic state you've been lulled into by the algorithms. And there's some pleasant kind of, like, I guess you could compare it to some, like, low-level euphoric painkiller, but not very euphoric. Mostly just a mild numbness that is pretty good at turning off anxiety, in the se- Or you could at least displace your own personal anxiety. Like, if I'm scanning through my phone and I find the inevitable bad news, whatever form it's in, I could pretend that my anxiety is related to that news.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:17 You know? And then that's when you get people who are very anxious and they s- I've seen it. I mean, s- who was it? Famous, some person tweeted-... I'm here in this beautiful place and I can't enjoy it because of our president.

Jamie Vernon 1:07:30 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:31 You know what I mean? It's like, whoa-

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:32 ... I don't, I'm not sure that's the real reason why you can't enjoy that place. I think it might be actually that you haven't dealt with the fact that you're a ve- you're freaking the fuck out. Right?

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:47 That to me is like this, the purpose of a phone. It's very good at tricking yourself into thinking that the reason you feel like shit is because of something happening in the world.

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 It's a bandwidth eater too, and here's what the problem with that is. Sometimes you have like these legitimate thoughts, and when you have these legitimate thoughts, meaning like, (coughs) uh, meaning like something you're working on, something you, you're, like whether it's, uh, an idea you're trying to do on stage or something else, uh, another project that you're doing, these things, they require your bandwidth. Right? And when you're always looking at your phone, it chips away percentages of your bandwidth. 10 here, five there-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:25 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 ... 20 there, seven there. And you don't think about it because, nope, I'm still concentrating on the project-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 ... I'm still on the project, the project, the project, the project.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 But really, no. Really you're in two rivers at the same time. You're in this wacky river of nonsense and wondering who got this and how much they're getting in this divorce and who died in the Dominican Republic. Oh my God-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:45 ... another person, another tourist.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:47 Yeah. (gasps)

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 Oh my God.

Jamie Vernon 1:08:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 You know? And you're just, you, if you wanna look at all the bad stuff that happens amongst seven billion people, you have to think of all the interactions that humans have.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 All the literally billions of interactions every day. People constantly, and occasionally one goes fucking western.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 One goes sideways, and that's the one you see on YouTube. "Jesus Christ, this world's going to shit."

Duncan Trussell 1:09:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 And then you watch another one, and you watch another one, and you watch infectious diseases and snake bites, and what happens when you get na- n- necropsy. When your fucking flesh starts falling off.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:24 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 Flesh-eating bacteria.

Jamie Vernon 1:09:26 Classic.

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 How'd they get that? Snorkeling? And then the next thing you know, you're fucking just numb, numb to your real life because you're taking in data from-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 ... everywhere.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:37 Yeah. That's it. Fuck, man. And it's like, eh, then that gets inside of you and now you're just a turbulent...

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:44 You have a turbulent self-

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 Yep.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:46 ... that has digested a version of the world that's only half true. And so because of that, you're gonna be half a person-

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:53 ... because you are not looking into like your own, whatever the fuck you are. You know? What are you, what are you?

Joe Rogan 1:10:02 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:02 Like that-

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 How much do you even think about what are you?

Duncan Trussell 1:10:05 Yeah. How much time have you spent... To me it's like the craziest shit that like, you're, you're, we were talking about the sex drive being this insane compulsory engine inside every sentient being that we, that I know. Of course there's exceptions, but like this is, if you're writing a computer code-

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:28 ... right? This would be a line of code, right? It keeps you going, keeps you going, keeps you going. So to me something that's fucking astoundingly weird is why the fuck can people not sit still and be quiet for periods exceeding 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes? Literally the least metabolically outside of sleeping, right? You're, you're, what, you're not really exerting energy when you're sitting still and being quiet. You're, uh, not really doing much. And yet if you ask, I could ask a person if they wanted to go for a walk, they'll go, "Sure, I'll go for a walk." But if you're like, "Do you wanna sit with me for like 10 minutes quietly?" It's weird. I get it. They're like, "No, I don't want to. I'm not into that. No, I don't wanna do that." What the fuck is that? To me, that if, not that I believe in simulation theory, but if I wanted to prove it or like play around with it, the idea that we're like non-player characters in some super advanced simulator-

Joe Rogan 1:11:26 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:26 ... one of the ways I would experiment would be like, oh, sit still. Why the fuck can't you sit still? Why is it that suddenly your mind goes insane? Why is it suddenly that you gotta get out? Why do you feel bored or crazy or fucking like overheated or anxious or nervous?

Joe Rogan 1:11:42 Because we have to be productive, Duncan.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:44 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 1:11:45 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 That's why, that's why everybody wants stimulants.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 They wanna be more productive.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 They wanna contribute more.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:51 Yeah. People j- I mean, I think it's, that's what someone might say is an explanation, but I think the fucking real reason is like people are carrying a disordered universe inside of them.

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:05 And when they sit down and there's nothing to look at except what's around them, they're forced to deal with the fact that actually a lot of the disturbance in their life s- is more related to an interior, like maelstrom of thoughts and-

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:22 ... unexplored feelings. And then this is just, uh, basically shaping their entire existence. They're like in every single moment recreating a universe of disorder-

Joe Rogan 1:12:33 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:34 ... and then getting really upset because if you see disorder in the world and it keeps reappearing, like your friend who's like, "Why do I get taken in by these people all the time?"

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:42 It's like, well, you get taken in by these people all the time because inside of you is a behavior pattern that is replicating this, uh, phenomena.

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:52 And you are pretending that it's not in you s- to the point where it's a mystery. It's like, why did... You know, when I drive somewhere, I'm not like, "Why did my car