Joe Rogan Experience #1332 - Annie Lederman

Joe Rogan 0:00 (humming) Hello, Annie.

Annie Lederman 0:04 Hello-

Joe Rogan 0:05 Wait, but what is-

Annie Lederman 0:06 ... to Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan 0:06 ... the leopard theme? You have leopard jackets, today you have a leopard top. Is this just coincidental or is there something to this?

Annie Lederman 0:14 Well, I'm a little bit white trash and I want every-... No, I don't know. I g-... I liked, I liked Married With Children.

Joe Rogan 0:19 You can pull this up, you don't have to-

Annie Lederman 0:20 I'm a little bit, uh-

Joe Rogan 0:21 ... lay on your hand for that.

Annie Lederman 0:21 I know, I'm trying to get comfortable.

Joe Rogan 0:23 Are you comfortable?

Annie Lederman 0:24 I don't know. Am I?

Joe Rogan 0:25 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 0:25 I'm nervous.

Joe Rogan 0:26 You seem comfortable.

Annie Lederman 0:27 Am I supposed to be-

Joe Rogan 0:28 You're fine.

Annie Lederman 0:28 ... not nervous?

Joe Rogan 0:29 You're fine.

Annie Lederman 0:31 I'm with the king. Anyway, okay. (smacks lips)

Joe Rogan 0:33 So, leopard.

Annie Lederman 0:34 Leopard. I like Married With Children. I don't know. I always-

Joe Rogan 0:36 You like Married With Children? Peg Bundy?

Annie Lederman 0:38 Well, I was gonna go for Kelly, but thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Oh, Kelly. Okay.

Annie Lederman 0:40 I like Dumb and Slutty and, uh, no.

Joe Rogan 0:43 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 0:44 I do have my friend who started pegging her boyfriend in my phone as Peg Bundy.

Joe Rogan 0:48 Whoa.

Annie Lederman 0:48 That's her name.

Joe Rogan 0:49 She started pegging her boyfriend? Who's idea?

Annie Lederman 0:50 She got a new boyfriend who wanted to be peg-... His.

Joe Rogan 0:53 (sucks lips)

Annie Lederman 0:53 I think he's gay, honestly.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Oh, for sure.

Annie Lederman 0:55 I don't think... Listen, if you get pegged, I'm not saying you're gay for sure, but this guy.

Joe Rogan 1:00 This guy's gay.

Annie Lederman 1:00 This guy, I think, is gay.

Joe Rogan 1:02 (inhales deeply) And what does she think?

Annie Lederman 1:05 They broke up. She thinks he's gay.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Annie Lederman 1:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07 They broke up. Why did they break up?

Annie Lederman 1:10 He was emotionally unavailable 'cause he's gay.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Wow. (smacks lips)

Annie Lederman 1:15 I think he's looking for something with a dick.

Joe Rogan 1:18 So, what, was there other signs?

Annie Lederman 1:22 (smacks lips) With him, that he might be... I don't know, I think that he just was not... He may be, he's just an emotionally unavailable guy, but he seemed to have a lot of issues around wanting to get dicks in his anus.

Joe Rogan 1:32 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 1:32 So, it seems like maybe he needs to try, maybe, a less plastic one.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Yeah, well, he probably is already trying it, don't you think?

Annie Lederman 1:39 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:40 I mean, I don't think you just, just stick with rubber.

Annie Lederman 1:42 Why would you waste your time with a rubber (smacks lips) dick...

Joe Rogan 1:46 I don't know.

Annie Lederman 1:46 ... strapped to a woman if you could just go get-

Joe Rogan 1:48 Maybe Jesus.

Annie Lederman 1:49 Jesus, maybe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:50 Maybe there's some, some Christian stuff, like you just can't-

Annie Lederman 1:52 Oh, yeah. I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:52 ... can't take the real dick?

Annie Lederman 1:54 Yeah, maybe it's, like, internalized homophobia or-

Joe Rogan 1:57 Probably. Or maybe he's just, like, transitionary. Like maybe two years from now, he'll look back and go, "God, I used to make girls fuck me in the ass. I'm s-... I was such a dickhead. Why did I do that? I should've just come out."

Annie Lederman 2:10 Yeah, or maybe he likes the feminine aspects of a woman and the rock hard cock part of a dude.

Joe Rogan 2:16 There's a lotta people that like that.

Annie Lederman 2:18 He needs to get... There needs to be like a... Well, I guess that's what a... (laughs) He needs a hermaphrodite-

Joe Rogan 2:22 Yes.

Annie Lederman 2:23 ... is what he needs.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Well, Whitney Cummings was telling me that those sex robots... You know, you saw her special-

Annie Lederman 2:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:27 They made a sex robot. That there's... They're really popular, where they have, uh, a woman's body and a dick. Those ones are really popular.

Annie Lederman 2:34 All right.

Joe Rogan 2:35 Hmm. All right. That's a good answer.

Annie Lederman 2:36 You get to live your-

Joe Rogan 2:37 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 2:37 You get to live your, your whole thing.

Joe Rogan 2:39 You're just greedy. You just want everything. Eh, inside, outside, give it to me.

Annie Lederman 2:44 I had a guy call into my podcast about his wife won't peg him enough and he, he's a cuck, but she won't-

Joe Rogan 2:51 Enough?

Annie Lederman 2:51 Yeah, but she, like, she-

Joe Rogan 2:52 She gets tired?

Annie Lederman 2:52 ... makes l-... She, like, makes love to him while she pegs him and he wants to be-

Joe Rogan 2:55 Oh, God.

Annie Lederman 2:55 ... just destroyed, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:56 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Annie Lederman 2:57 And he, he's a cuck, but he, she won't fuck black guys, so he's just, he's like-

Joe Rogan 3:03 Oh, my God.

Annie Lederman 3:03 I'm like, "I feel like for what you want, you should be very grateful. You have this woman that's pretty down, but there's always more." So I'm wondering if he just wants more or if his ultimate s-

Joe Rogan 3:12 Isn't that the same with... But just, that's how it is with people. If you go back to the early days of porn, it was basically just pizza delivery men and sorority girls and, and sex, and everybody had a bush. But then you look at today. Everyone's gagging and slapping and-

Annie Lederman 3:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:26 ... choking and spitting and-

Annie Lederman 3:28 And not choking on pubes.

Joe Rogan 3:29 And it's (choking sounds)

Annie Lederman 3:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:31 There was none of that back then. Now it's, like, standard, you know. It's like everything keeps getting pushed. Boundaries keep getting pushed.

Annie Lederman 3:38 Everyone's getting the fish hook. Poor Aziz.

Joe Rogan 3:41 Yeah. It's fucking weird.

Annie Lederman 3:41 Aziz watched the f-... The w-... The wrong porn.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Aziz? Oh, did he fish hook that girl?

Annie Lederman 3:45 Remember when he got, he got in trouble, he got for fish hooking (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah. What a disaster. Have you seen his special?

Annie Lederman 3:53 I haven't watched it yet.

Joe Rogan 3:54 I watched a clip and it's shot so bad. It's like you see him and then you see people behind him in the backstage area milling around.

Annie Lederman 4:04 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:04 And he's on a seat. It's so dumb. It's like there's, there's doors open-

Annie Lederman 4:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:09 ... in the back and then people walking behind the doors. It's like some odd artistic choice to try to be like, I don't-

Annie Lederman 4:16 It doesn't matter that I'm up here.

Joe Rogan 4:18 Yeah. Like, it's no big deal.

Annie Lederman 4:19 Life still goes on even though-

Joe Rogan 4:20 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 4:20 ... I'm up here, which means you were thinking that life doesn't go on and you wanted to show people that life goes on.

Joe Rogan 4:26 Dude, that's deep.

Annie Lederman 4:27 You were, you were insecure about how narcissistic you are and then you tried to fight it.

Joe Rogan 4:32 Well, I was thinking it was the director's choice, honestly.

Annie Lederman 4:34 Who ever's the director? Who was the director?

Joe Rogan 4:36 Was it Spike Jonze? Yeah. I think he tried to do something crafty, which, you know, is kinda interesting in any other format. I mean, it'd be interesting if it was a conversation and it was just, uh, you know, two people talking and they're in a public square and you see people milling around behind them. That's not distracting. But with standup, the more things you have to think about other than what the person's saying, the more it's gonna take away from what the person's saying.

Annie Lederman 4:58 Yeah, it does feel weird to just... I mean, you know, I go on with the leopard print jacket sometimes (laughs) , but I like to dig myself a little hole.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Y- yeah, but the leopard print jacket's just cool. It's just funny. It's not distracting. It's just he or she is.

Annie Lederman 5:11 I like, uh, you know I have my f-... toy sword. I don't know if you've been around for any of those sets, but-

Joe Rogan 5:14 You have a toy sword you bring on sometimes? (laughs)

Annie Lederman 5:15 ... sometimes I bring one on. You know, it's late at night. You gotta wake them up.

Joe Rogan 5:19 What kind of sword?

Annie Lederman 5:19 You gotta wake them up.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Like a buccaneer sword or-

Annie Lederman 5:22 Just a pl-... Just a, just a plastic sword from the toy store. I spend a lot of time with props. I-

Joe Rogan 5:26 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 5:27 (laughs) I have fake blood on me most times.

Joe Rogan 5:29 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 5:30 I don't know when they're just gonna... I'm gonna be inspired to take a funny picture.

Joe Rogan 5:33 To make a pratfall with wrestling?

Annie Lederman 5:34 To make a pratfall. Did you see the pratfalls that we did? Me and, uh, Steven Randolph, one of the door guys at the Comedy Store?

Joe Rogan 5:39 Yeah, when was this?

Annie Lederman 5:40 They u-... They posted on the Comedy Store thing. We did-

Joe Rogan 5:42 Oh, no, no, I did. You guys did a bunch of them. (laughs)

Annie Lederman 5:43 We challenged each other to, to three pratfalls. It's so embarrassing. Listen, after Brody died, I was like, "I'm going all out. I'm experimenting. I'm having as much fun as I can." You know, obviously, it's about jokes, but sometimes you gotta really just... You gotta just have your time up there.

Joe Rogan 5:59 The Brody one was hard on everybody.

Annie Lederman 6:01 Oh, that was the worst.

Joe Rogan 6:01 Didn't make any sense.... that was one that, it just, like, felt like swallowing a dry rock.

Annie Lederman 6:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:07 Like, how? Like, how is that guy gone?

Annie Lederman 6:09 It just feel, he was just such a big presence and then, it- it's sad to, I don't wanna talk too much about ayahuasca on here, 'cause I know that's what everyone does. But, um, I did and when I'm- and when I did trip on ayahuasca, it was right after that and it helped me a lot with that. 'Cause I kept thinking about how sad it was that he couldn't feel us, like, hugging uh, him. We loved him.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 6:30 Brodie was loved, like we loved that man. He was our brother, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:35 For sure.

Annie Lederman 6:35 And that was the sad part, I think.

Joe Rogan 6:37 Well, I mean, I just feel like there's no way any of us could ever understand what's in anybody else's brain. You know, I don't know what's in yours, you don't know what's in mine. It's like, there, we- we assume that there's a similar thing happening inside our head as other people's heads.

Annie Lederman 6:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:52 And I think that's wildly incorrect and I think some people are just in pain all the time.

Annie Lederman 6:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:57 And there's not much you can do as a friend to- to help them, you know. I mean, I felt the same way about Bourdain, when Bourdain died. Uh, it was just, uh, (sighs) I don't- I don't get it. I just don't understand how someone who's so loved, you know, he has, uh, this amazing job. Has a beautiful daughter and he has this life that's extraordinary and very interesting and- and deep, and he gets to meet these fascinating people and travel- travel the world and expose people to all these incredible artists and culinary artists. And yet still, didn't, couldn't take it.

Annie Lederman 7:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:32 Didn't wanna be here, for whatever reason.

Annie Lederman 7:35 And I just think about it, it's like, so they're- they're okay, you know, they're off wherever we go or whatever happens, they've-

Joe Rogan 7:41 Transcended.

Annie Lederman 7:42 ... came back, they're floating around somewhere. But it's like, selfishly, I'm like, "I want more Brodie," like...

Joe Rogan 7:49 Of course.

Annie Lederman 7:49 I want him back.

Joe Rogan 7:50 Of course, yeah, of course.

Annie Lederman 7:51 And it's, you know, and then you see people, they just fade, you know, like each year goes by and they just... Which is gonna happen to all of us, so.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 7:59 But, you know, luckily he had a lot of catchphrases. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:04 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 8:04 A lot of stuff online.

Joe Rogan 8:05 There's a, the poster in the back of the store.

Annie Lederman 8:06 Oh, I love it. I kiss it every time I walk by it.

Joe Rogan 8:08 Do you really?

Annie Lederman 8:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:09 Yeah, I'm not touching it anymore.

Annie Lederman 8:10 Yeah, I lick it. I give it my herpes.

Joe Rogan 8:12 Wow!

Annie Lederman 8:13 I don't have herpes yet.

Joe Rogan 8:14 Wow!

Annie Lederman 8:14 Joe Rogan audience.

Joe Rogan 8:15 But if you do-

Annie Lederman 8:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:16 ... it's on that.

Annie Lederman 8:16 It's okay, and honestly if you have it, it's fine.

Joe Rogan 8:19 When are they gonna have a vaccination for herpes?

Annie Lederman 8:21 They must have one already.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Do you think the government's keeping it from us?

Annie Lederman 8:24 They've got to. Sure, what do you think, conspiracy theorist?

Joe Rogan 8:26 James isn't a conspiracy theorist.

Guest 8:27 Whoa, calm down.

Annie Lederman 8:27 Yes, he is.

Joe Rogan 8:28 Why do you say that?

Annie Lederman 8:29 'Cause he already sparked up when we talked about the aliens thing with Bernie.

Joe Rogan 8:34 Oh, did he bring up Ohio?

Guest 8:35 No, I left it all out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:37 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 8:37 But he got his eyes, there's just something, there's a spark they have.

Joe Rogan 8:41 (laughs) Conspiracy theorists?

Annie Lederman 8:42 Yeah, they have a little spark in their eye when they-

Joe Rogan 8:44 Mm.

Annie Lederman 8:44 He perked up, he kegled his asshole a little bit when I brought it up.

Joe Rogan 8:47 Yeah, but what I n- it was really funny, like there was the last question I asked him, was about UFOs.

Annie Lederman 8:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:53 Just kind of almost as a joke.

Annie Lederman 8:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:55 But just- just as a goodbye.

Annie Lederman 8:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:56 You know, like to keep it silly. That's all I'm reading. It's in fucking hundreds of articles, it's all, "Bernie Sanders says he will tell the world about aliens if he becomes president." That's the thing that they took out of that.

Annie Lederman 9:09 Well, it's smart of him, it feels like Trump's straws. It's like smart. If Bernie had said it, if Bernie had brought it up, I would have been like, "That is a brilliant tactic."

Joe Rogan 9:17 Hmm.

Annie Lederman 9:17 But don't you think that people that believe in aliens are already gonna vote for, or that are the most hung up on it?

Joe Rogan 9:22 For Bernie? No. No. No.

Annie Lederman 9:23 You don't think they're the same?

Joe Rogan 9:25 No. No, I think they- they vary wildly. Conspiracy theorists are left wing, right wing and the- the alien one is different than any other one, and I think there's a lot more people that are, um, that- that are alien lovers that cross both sides, I think. It's just one of those things where you want space, daddy.

Annie Lederman 9:43 Like alien lovers, guys that fuck aliens.

Joe Rogan 9:45 No, no, no.

Annie Lederman 9:46 I'll only fuck an alien.

Joe Rogan 9:47 That's- that's alien fuckers. You're holding out for Dr. Manhattan.

Annie Lederman 9:50 Do people... Yeah. Do people claim that? I bet you they do.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Oh, for sure. Do you know there's people really into Bigfoot sexually?

Annie Lederman 9:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:56 There's like all these novels written about, uh, Bigfoot. There's-

Annie Lederman 9:58 It's like, just go date a tall Armenian.

Joe Rogan 10:00 No, no, no. (laughs)

Guest 10:01 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 10:01 (laughs) It's not that hard.

Joe Rogan 10:03 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 10:03 They're every... Go to Glendale.

Joe Rogan 10:04 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 10:04 They're everywhere. Go to the Galleria.

Joe Rogan 10:06 There's B- (laughs) there's Bigfoot... This is a very localized reference. There's Bigfoot porn.

Annie Lederman 10:12 You get it.

Joe Rogan 10:13 Bigfoot, or I do get it. Bigfoot erotica.

Annie Lederman 10:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:16 I mean, it's like really common.

Annie Lederman 10:17 What if he had a small dick?

Joe Rogan 10:19 Bigfoot?

Annie Lederman 10:19 Like you always hear about the really tall guys with the tiny dicks.

Joe Rogan 10:22 Right.

Annie Lederman 10:22 And when I say hear about them, you hear about them.

Joe Rogan 10:24 See, look at this. Seduced by Bigfoot, and ravaged.

Annie Lederman 10:28 Ooh!

Joe Rogan 10:28 Look at, Come for Bigfoot, Virginia Wade.

Annie Lederman 10:30 Bigfoot bitch.

Joe Rogan 10:31 Narrated by Lolita Young. Wait a minute, narrated?

Guest 10:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:34 You mean this is an audiobook? Mm.

Annie Lederman 10:37 You know what they say, the bigger the Bigfoot, the ...

Guest 10:40 Uh-oh.

Annie Lederman 10:40 Bigger the-

Joe Rogan 10:40 Hair in the bones? What is that?

Guest 10:42 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 10:43 I like a guy with a really hairy dick, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:45 Hair to the bone. Really?

Annie Lederman 10:45 I-

Joe Rogan 10:46 Like, you like those?

Guest 10:46 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 10:46 People say, listen, people say they don't like too much hair on balls. I say get it all the way under the shaft.

Joe Rogan 10:52 Look at this, Boff-

Annie Lederman 10:52 Up to the tip.

Joe Rogan 10:53 Boffing Bigfoot?

Guest 10:55 Uh, what is happening?

Annie Lederman 10:57 Right?

Guest 10:57 I thought, I feel like I know... Isn't that a term?

Annie Lederman 10:58 I like that her name's Annelle.

Joe Rogan 10:59 Oh, wait, wait, wait. Gay Bigfoot, look at this last row.

Annie Lederman 11:02 Annelle Probe.

Joe Rogan 11:03 What is gay Bigfoot?

Annie Lederman 11:04 Look, he's smoking a cigarette after he fucked.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Last row. Look at that.

Guest 11:06 Oh, right here.

Joe Rogan 11:07 What the fuck?

Guest 11:08 A Mouthful of Sasquatch.

Joe Rogan 11:09 Oh, Jesus Christ!

Annie Lederman 11:11 Oh, my God, I feel like I've met that man.

Joe Rogan 11:12 (laughs)

Guest 11:13 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 11:13 That looks like one of the door guys at The Comedy Store.

Joe Rogan 11:15 (laughs) That's one of the do- door guys that got fired.

Annie Lederman 11:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:18 This is a- a whole genre of erotica. There's a bunch of women that write these books.

Guest 11:23 Number 13.

Joe Rogan 11:24 This Virginia Wade lady is, uh, she's apparently very prolific with her Bigfoot erotica. She writes quite a few of these.

Annie Lederman 11:31 Oh, my god.

Joe Rogan 11:31 How many does she have?

Guest 11:32 Well, that was 13, at least 13 Come for Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Come for Bigfoot number 13. She doesn't make shit up.

Annie Lederman 11:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:38 Then, there I was, walking the dog and the dog had a heart attack, and next thing, Bigfoot's dick is in my mouth.

Annie Lederman 11:43 How 'bout, I have a good pun. Harry and the Humersons.

Joe Rogan 11:48 (inhales deeply)

Annie Lederman 11:48 Henderson-

Joe Rogan 11:49 Don't take...

Annie Lederman 11:49 Har- Harry and the...

Joe Rogan 11:50 Think it out loud and then just, you know...

Annie Lederman 11:52 I was sounding it out. I can't read. Everyone leave me alone.

Joe Rogan 11:55 (laughs)

Guest 11:56 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 11:56 What did you expect me to come on and be on, fucking smart?

Joe Rogan 11:58 Um, so there's at least 13 books. I- I bet Virginia Wade lives in a fucking giant mansion, drives around on a Rolls.

Guest 12:05 She's the L. Ron Hubbard of Bigfoot.

Annie Lederman 12:06 It's probably a dude.

Joe Rogan 12:08 No. It's a bu- I get s- I bet it's a, what's that, Bigfoot 5 Baby. Come for Bigfoot Baby? What is that?See that one?

Annie Lederman 12:15 Come for Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 12:16 Five, baby. Why does it say baby? See that? See more, right-hand side! All the way to the right, all the way to the right, all the way to the right, up, above it.

Guest 12:24 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:24 There you go. Bam. What is that?

Guest 12:26 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 12:26 The fuck is that?

Guest 12:27 Maybe they have a Bigfoot baby.

Annie Lederman 12:29 It looks like a Come Insider one.

Joe Rogan 12:31 Oh, my God. (laughs) So she's got... Let's find out. Goo- (laughs) Google Virginia Wade's Bigfo- is that her right there?

Guest 12:38 I, I, it might have been, but-

Joe Rogan 12:39 She looks normal. Is that a photo of her?

Guest 12:40 Go back.

Annie Lederman 12:40 We've gotta see her.

Joe Rogan 12:41 Go back, go back.

Guest 12:41 It was a different book they were talking about.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Oh, okay.

Guest 12:43 The Boff for Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Is that her?

Guest 12:45 Boffed by Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Is that Virginia Wade? That's a normal-looking lady.

Guest 12:47 That might not be her, though.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Oh, "Amazon pulls Boffed-"

Guest 12:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 "... by Bigfoot romance novels from shelves." What?

Guest 12:54 Yeah, I think it was.

Joe Rogan 12:54 Why are they censoring Bigfoot porn?

Guest 12:56 Yeah, that is odd.

Annie Lederman 12:57 Look at the- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:57 Might've been her.

Guest 12:58 ... GIF.

Joe Rogan 12:58 Okay Why don't...

Annie Lederman 13:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:01 Why didn't anyone tell me about these literary treasures? Okay.

Annie Lederman 13:04 Oh, my God, I thought-

Joe Rogan 13:05 We'll-

Annie Lederman 13:05 ... for a second that long but interesting read was about the book.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Is this-

Annie Lederman 13:08 The long... This is a long but interesting read.

Joe Rogan 13:10 Why are they pulling it? Why are they pulling this?

Guest 13:14 She's a stay-at-home mother from Colorado.

Joe Rogan 13:15 Of course she is.

Guest 13:17 No real writing experience and no huge fans.

Annie Lederman 13:18 She has-

Joe Rogan 13:18 No, of course not. You don't even have to be good. I mean-

Annie Lederman 13:20 She spent all day waxing her nipples, she was, couldn't get to, come to terms with her hairy body, and then she realized-

Joe Rogan 13:25 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 13:25 ... all she needed was to find her match.

Joe Rogan 13:28 She says, "I get this crazy idea for a story," so she sat down, wrote the entire book in an hour. (laughs)

Guest 13:33 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 13:33 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 13:33 More of a novella, there's no fucking... There's no second draft.

Guest 13:37 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 13:37 That's what I love to hear, by my, from my authors. "You wrote this all in one draft?"

Joe Rogan 13:42 She said, just 12,000 words in a matter of weeks. She's been considered trying to sell it to a mainstream publisher. Instead, she went directly to Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing, an online platform for self-publishing, 70% royalty rate for authors. I think she's sold a fuck load of those.

Guest 14:00 Yeah, it had to go viral. Here's a line from it if you wanna read it.

Annie Lederman 14:04 I don't think he's monogamous.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Well, let's... Bigfoot? Nah. So Bi- click on that Bigfoot Insider Monster Porn Amazon Crackdown link. So let's find out what the fuck's going on here. Why would they crack down on that? Ooh, ad blocker, you son of a bitch.

Guest 14:18 Some publisher gotta go.

Joe Rogan 14:18 Okay, what's it say here?

Annie Lederman 14:18 Yeah, this dude's so hot.

Joe Rogan 14:20 "Author Virginia Wade's fiction debut follows a group of women who embark on a week-long camping trip to Mount Hood National Forest. There, in the shadow of Oregon's highest mountains, they're, uh, they're kidnapped and sexually assaulted by a mysterious woodland creature."

Annie Lederman 14:34 How confusing is this?

Joe Rogan 14:34 "'What the hell is that thing?' asks one protagonist." That's some good writing. "'It's fucking Bigfoot,' hissed Shelly. 'He's real, for fuck's sake.' Horror filled her eyes. With a huge C---." I'm saying it, and that says cock.

Annie Lederman 14:50 Corn.

Joe Rogan 14:51 "In the book-"

Annie Lederman 14:53 His feet are fucked up.

Joe Rogan 14:54 "... with decidedly un-PC title like Come for Bigfoot," C-U-M, of course, "it's just the first of 16 fiction e-books Wade, a pen name, has written about the legendary but sometimes, best sometimes known as Sasquatch. Each..." Legendary beast, uh, "each detailing a series of graphic and often violent sexual encounters-"

Annie Lederman 15:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:13 "... between the ape-like creature and her female lovers." (clears throat)

Annie Lederman 15:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:17 Okay. Wa- Wade has made an exceptional living writing these stories. Wow. Okay, but why did they take 'em down?

Guest 15:24 Let's see, let's see.

Annie Lederman 15:24 This reminds me of my friend from middle school's boyfriend who was Sicilian. He was just so hairy, and he looked...

Joe Rogan 15:31 It's been downloaded more than 100,000 times. Holy shit. That, that's five bucks. That means she made $500,000 (laughs) for that fucking shitty book.

Annie Lederman 15:39 For one hour of work.

Joe Rogan 15:41 (laughs) Well, she made 70% of it at least. Okay.

Annie Lederman 15:44 Do you think... I, I bet you the other books didn't take as long either.

Joe Rogan 15:48 Wow, during her best months, she's m- netting $30,000 or more in a month writing Bigfoot jerk-off books.

Annie Lederman 15:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:54 Wow. Taken by pirates... Oh, she wra- r- w- r- she branched off into other genres.

Annie Lederman 16:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:00 It's all just getting fucked. Taken by pirates, seduced by the dark lord, it's like getting fucked by demons and pirates and hilarious.

Annie Lederman 16:09 I, I'm getting traumatized. A traumatic thing is coming up for me right now.

Joe Rogan 16:13 That's weird.

Annie Lederman 16:13 Do you wanna hear it?

Guest 16:14 Uh-oh.

Joe Rogan 16:14 What?

Annie Lederman 16:15 My mom wrote romance novels when I was-

Joe Rogan 16:20 Shut the fuck up.

Annie Lederman 16:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:21 What kind?

Annie Lederman 16:21 They weren't-

Joe Rogan 16:21 Did you read 'em?

Annie Lederman 16:22 They were never published.

Joe Rogan 16:23 Whoa.

Annie Lederman 16:23 No, I didn't read them.

Joe Rogan 16:24 They were never published?

Annie Lederman 16:25 So it was really just a fuck journal.

Joe Rogan 16:29 You read your mom's fuck journal?

Annie Lederman 16:30 I didn't read it, but she had romance novels around, and I would definitely, I knew, I was really good at skimming to the sex scenes.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Oh.

Annie Lederman 16:36 I knew how to flip through, flick my bean to it.

Joe Rogan 16:40 So, your mom wrote-

Annie Lederman 16:43 She was a part of this thing called Romance Writers of America, and she actually won awards, and then she never followed through. So she could've published the book and probably had success, and then she had a whole, it was like a whole suspense romance, Selena's Revenge was what it was called, she wrote this book.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Selena, like, the singer?

Annie Lederman 17:00 Yeah. No, but that's really funny. (laughs) She came back-

Joe Rogan 17:02 Comes back to life.

Annie Lederman 17:03 ... and she's like... (laughs) To fuck Bigfoot?

Joe Rogan 17:04 As a zombie. No, she fucks the girl who killed her, makes her eat her pussy-

Annie Lederman 17:06 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:07 ... now she's dead.

Annie Lederman 17:08 I like that lady. That little weirdo. I mean, I don't like her-

Joe Rogan 17:11 Who?

Annie Lederman 17:11 ... 'cause she killed her, but she was, she was like a real weird-

Joe Rogan 17:13 You mean the girl who killed Selena?

Annie Lederman 17:14 She obsessed, like... You know who she reminds me of? She reminds me of (laughs) I, I definitely don't like her, but she, um, she reminds me of the little woman from, um... Okay, can't remember. What's it called? The w-, uh, David Lynch, that show.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Which one?

Annie Lederman 17:32 Twin Peaks.

Joe Rogan 17:34 Which one?

Annie Lederman 17:34 Didn't, wasn't there a little lady in it?

Joe Rogan 17:35 Oh, I don't remember Twin Peaks very well.

Annie Lederman 17:38 But there was a little lady in it, I've al- always remembered.

Joe Rogan 17:39 I only watched a few episodes way back in the day.

Annie Lederman 17:41 But I just remember usually from the TV movie with Jennifer Lopez in it.

Joe Rogan 17:46 Did you, did she play Selena?

Annie Lederman 17:47 She played Selena, that was her big break.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Really? I thought-

Annie Lederman 17:48 She was a fly girl.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 17:50 And then she got super hot, and that big ass was exposed to us in Selena outfits.

Joe Rogan 17:56 Hmm. That's interesting. Uh, but why did that girl kill her? She was her assistant, right?

Annie Lederman 18:00 Yeah, she was just such a big fan. I think she was just obsessed with her.

Joe Rogan 18:04 So she killed her 'cause she was a big fan?

Annie Lederman 18:06 People are fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 18:08 That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't make sense. She probably hated her because she made her wash her laundry and shit.

Annie Lederman 18:13 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 18:13 She was her assistant, right?

Annie Lederman 18:14 Or I think she was the head of her fan club.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Assistants get weird with people. Did you ever hear the David Spade story?... his assistant tasered him and fucking tied him up and shit.

Annie Lederman 18:24 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 18:24 Wound up going to jail. (dog growls) Yeah. I guess-

Annie Lederman 18:26 Was it a girl or a guy?

Joe Rogan 18:27 A guy.

Annie Lederman 18:29 Was he trying to fuck him?

Joe Rogan 18:30 I don't think so. I think he just hated him.

Annie Lederman 18:32 Oh, my God. I feel-

Joe Rogan 18:33 It's just-

Annie Lederman 18:33 ... like Spade would be a nice employer, but maybe not.

Joe Rogan 18:36 Maybe not.

Annie Lederman 18:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:37 Maybe he is now. He's get tased-

Annie Lederman 18:39 He better be.

Joe Rogan 18:39 ... and beat up. Yeah.

Annie Lederman 18:41 Wow, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 18:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. See if you can find that story.

Annie Lederman 18:44 Spade's had some shit happen. He got catfished. He's, he gets-

Joe Rogan 18:47 He got catfished?

Annie Lederman 18:48 He gets catfished by... He told it on The Norm MacDonald Show.

Joe Rogan 18:50 Who catfished him?

Annie Lederman 18:52 Someone catfished him. He thought he had met this model on Twitter.

Joe Rogan 18:55 LOL.

Annie Lederman 18:55 And then he saw the model in real life and was like, "Hey, Twitter." And she was like, "What are you talking about?" He said something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:01 Oh.

Annie Lederman 19:02 So embarrassing.

Guest 19:04 Moved in.

Annie Lederman 19:05 Spade's cool as shit.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Here it goes. David Spade's assistant pleads guilty to assault. Make that larger, please.

Annie Lederman 19:11 Oh, my God.

Narrator 19:12 It says it somewhere?

Joe Rogan 19:12 David Pa- Spade's former assistant pleaded guilty, stop, to assaulting the comedian with a stun gun and agreed to seek-

Annie Lederman 19:19 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 19:19 ... counseling for drug and psychological problems. Beverly Hills Superior Court Judge Eldon Fox also sentenced David Warren "Skippy" Malloy on Thursday to five years probation. That's it? In order to stay at least-

Annie Lederman 19:30 Do not hire someone named Skippy.

Joe Rogan 19:32 Ordered him to stay at least 100 yards away from Spade and perform 480 hours of community service. If somebody tased me, I want more than-

Annie Lederman 19:40 Yeah, that's not enough.

Joe Rogan 19:40 ... community service. For-

Annie Lederman 19:42 'Cause that's a threat, and they tied you up and shit. How did it end?

Joe Rogan 19:45 It says... Wait a minute, it says David Spade, 36. What was his... in the 20s?

Guest 19:49 2001.

Annie Lederman 19:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:49 Shut the fuck up.

Annie Lederman 19:51 (laughs)

Guest 19:51 Really? It's at the beginning of the article, uh, 2001, right here.

Joe Rogan 19:54 Hmm, okay.

Annie Lederman 19:55 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 19:57 Mm.

Annie Lederman 19:57 He tied him up. How did-

Joe Rogan 20:00 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 20:00 I wonder how the story ended, how did he get out of it? Is he just really good with untying knots?

Joe Rogan 20:04 I guess the guy got tired of fucking him.

Annie Lederman 20:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:08 (laughs) And getting shocked. (imitates electric shocking) Says he was angry, in a psychotic state due to cocaine the morning of the attack. Dun-dun-dun.

Annie Lederman 20:16 I mean, I've done coke before. I don't think I've been, like, "Let me tie up my boss and taser him."

Joe Rogan 20:20 You've never done coke with David Spade.

Annie Lederman 20:22 You're right. Or around him.

Joe Rogan 20:23 Yeah. Maybe he's, you know, telling you to take the dog out and you're like, "I can't do this no more."

Annie Lederman 20:27 I can't. Too hyper.

Joe Rogan 20:30 So the co-

Narrator 20:31 Oh, sorry.

Joe Rogan 20:31 He said the co-star of the NBC sitcom Just Shoot Me! and the new movie, Joe Dirt, said at the time that Malloy, a 30-year-old aspiring actor, was a friend who is obviously mentally troubled right now.

Annie Lederman 20:42 Wow. And-

Joe Rogan 20:44 Mm.

Annie Lederman 20:44 ... I'm more shocked by... Joe Dirt is a new movie.

Joe Rogan 20:47 Uh, yeah. 2001.

Annie Lederman 20:48 We're digging back. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:49 2001.

Annie Lederman 20:50 We are digging back. Well, fuck.

Joe Rogan 20:53 That seems like a long time ago. But, uh, d- you know what doesn't seem like a long time ago? 2009.

Annie Lederman 20:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 20:59 You say 2009, you're like, "Oh, that just happened." Nope. 10 years, a decade. Like, 1960-1970 seems like forever, '70 to '80 seems like forever, '80 to '90 seems like forever. But 2009 to 2019 for whatever fucking reason seems real close.

Annie Lederman 21:16 Yeah, and it's not.

Joe Rogan 21:18 It's not.

Annie Lederman 21:18 It's not close.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Ten whole years.

Annie Lederman 21:20 You... Style will show you that too. 'Cause I was, I was born in '83, I'm 36, and, uh, the kid, the, the younger kids right now are dressing like I dressed in high school.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 21:32 Like, it cycled back around. They're in my styles.

Joe Rogan 21:35 Yeah, but that's then, like, not... 2009 to 2019, is there a difference in style?

Annie Lederman 21:40 N- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:40 This is coming from someone that has zero style.

Annie Lederman 21:42 Yeah, there is.

Joe Rogan 21:43 What is it?

Annie Lederman 21:44 It's... Okay, from 2009, um, I would say 2009 was maybe when they ha- started having... This one, okay, wait. I have to remember where I was in life. I just moved to New York. People were wearing... I don't know, I had lived in Santa Fe and I was drinking a lot, so I definitely went...

Joe Rogan 22:04 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 22:04 I quit drinking in 2009. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:05 I still have never been to Santa Fe.

Annie Lederman 22:06 I started comedy then.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Santa Fe is s- supposed to be a weird place.

Annie Lederman 22:09 That's where I met Tait Fletcher.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Hello. Caveman Coffee.

Annie Lederman 22:12 I met Tait in, uh, in Santa Fe. He used to come in with a bunch of sober dudes after meeting. I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but whatever.

Joe Rogan 22:21 Uh, he's pretty open about it.

Annie Lederman 22:21 But he, uh, but I mean, it was the truth. They were so annoying. I was, like, a drunk. I was wasted s- at this cowboy bar. (laughs) I had to wear a cowboy outfit.

Joe Rogan 22:28 You have to?

Annie Lederman 22:29 You have to. That's your uniform.

Joe Rogan 22:31 Really?

Annie Lederman 22:31 Being a waitress is not humiliating enough-

Joe Rogan 22:33 What if you-

Annie Lederman 22:33 ... you also have to dress.

Joe Rogan 22:34 ... just have a John Deere hat on?

Annie Lederman 22:35 No, you have to wear, you had to wear a cowboy hat and you had to have a shirt that had yolks on it.

Joe Rogan 22:40 Oh, if you worked there?

Annie Lederman 22:41 If you worked there.

Joe Rogan 22:42 Okay.

Annie Lederman 22:42 Not when you went in, yeah. That would be crazy.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Okay. That would be crazy.

Annie Lederman 22:45 But so Tait would come in with a bunch of people and they just wouldn't order alcoo-... I mean, it was just, like, low sales, high maintenance. I was like-

Joe Rogan 22:51 S-

Annie Lederman 22:51 ... "Who is this fucking guy? He's so big and ridiculous." And then I was talking to him. I hadn't quit drinking, I didn't quit drinking until I moved out of Santa Fe, but I told him I wanted to do comedy and he made them turn the karaoke night into a comedy show for me.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Really?

Annie Lederman 23:04 Yeah, and I got to do comedy.

Joe Rogan 23:05 You went up?

Annie Lederman 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 That's the first time you ever went up?

Annie Lederman 23:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:07 Wow. Did you have p- things prepared?

Annie Lederman 23:09 Yeah. I had jokes.

Joe Rogan 23:10 No kidding.

Annie Lederman 23:10 Yeah. And then, um-

Joe Rogan 23:12 Were you hammered?

Annie Lederman 23:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:13 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 23:13 And then, and then I moved to New York to do comedy and I was, I crashed my mo- I had a little scooter, a Yamaha Azuma.

Joe Rogan 23:21 Mm-hmm.

Annie Lederman 23:21 And I crashed it 'cause I would drive drunk all the time, that was my happy place. Like, to this day, it really was... Honestly, that feeling of, like, driving wasted on a scooter was the wind blowing through your hair 'cause you're not wearing a helmet.

Joe Rogan 23:32 The thing about-

Annie Lederman 23:32 But then the-

Joe Rogan 23:33 ... scooters is you don't really think you can kill anybody else. So it's not that bad to drive drunk.

Annie Lederman 23:38 Yeah, but you can-

Joe Rogan 23:39 You only gotta fuck yourself up.

Annie Lederman 23:39 ... you can get in the way of someone else.

Joe Rogan 23:41 Sure.

Annie Lederman 23:41 You can do anything. I fucked myself up so bad. I woke up just, had blacked out completely. My face was split open. I had road rash all over my tits. This was Father's Day 2008.

Joe Rogan 23:51 You don't remember falling?

Annie Lederman 23:53 I don't, didn't, all I remembered, I just remembered, like, little pieces. I remembered that someone helped me. I woke up, I was living at my friend's house. I woke up at the house. He was staying at his girlfriend's house, so I was there alone, but my chin was split open. I'd been wearing a dress. And it looked like-

Joe Rogan 24:06 (groans)

Annie Lederman 24:06 ... I, my throat had been slit, like there was just blood-

Joe Rogan 24:08 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 24:08 ... all the way down it. Road rash all over my tits, all over the side of my arms, my knees. Like, I just was fucked up.

Joe Rogan 24:15 You just face planted.

Annie Lederman 24:16 Just face split open.

Joe Rogan 24:18 Wow.

Annie Lederman 24:18 I just, I went, I peeled out and, like, just went chin first into everything. And then I remembered that someone who didn't, a girl that didn't like me-... had helped me. That's all I could remember. It was someone who usually hated me, helped me.

Joe Rogan 24:31 Wow.

Annie Lederman 24:31 And then so I went out. I went to the hospital. I called my roommate, he came back. Um, I went to the hospital. They ga- I got nine stitches. And th- I was still wasted. I mean, I was still so hammered and the doctor kept going, "Were you drinking?" And I kept going, "Just between us?" And he's like, "Yeah." And I went, "Nope."

Joe Rogan 24:47 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 24:47 Like, I'm not going to fucking jail you motherfucker. I was like, "No, I just crashed my scooter. It's crazy." He didn't know that I didn't wake up to drink through the pain. So, um, so then I got the stitches and I was friends with all the cops in Santa Fe, 'cause I was an alcoholic, so that's a really good plan. You gotta befriend them so they don't arrest you. And, uh, they had told me if they had caught me... 'Cause I ended up finding my scooter on the side of the road, my friend drove me around. So I found out where I had peeled out and there was like a bunch of loose gravel. So I just peeled out on the gravel and the cop said that they would have arrested me for an aggra- aggravated DUI because I hurt myself. I had injured myself.

Joe Rogan 25:25 That's what an aggravated DUI is?

Annie Lederman 25:27 That's what they said back then. I mean-

Joe Rogan 25:29 Hm.

Annie Lederman 25:29 ... I was still wasted when they said that.

Joe Rogan 25:31 It's worse if you hurt yourself? You would see it- You'd think it's like a little-

Annie Lederman 25:33 Yeah, 'cause I had to go to the hospital and stuff.

Joe Rogan 25:35 You would think... You got a little punishment in there.

Annie Lederman 25:37 Yeah. Well... (laughs) So then I didn't learn the lesson. I went out drinking that night with the stitches in my face. And I had... My line was I would carry Neosporin around and I asked guys if they wanted to rub Neosporin on my titties.

Joe Rogan 25:47 Oh.

Annie Lederman 25:47 Like I almost lost a nipple. I mean, it got so close.

Joe Rogan 25:50 Oh, Jesus.

Annie Lederman 25:51 Yeah, I looked crazy, but I was a drunk. So I was like, "Woo! Fun girl A-" They used to call me Fun Girl Annie behind my back and I thought they were-

Joe Rogan 25:57 Oh, boy.

Annie Lederman 25:57 I thought it was like a cool... (laughs) I didn't realize they were making fun of me.

Joe Rogan 25:59 Oh, Jesus.

Annie Lederman 26:00 So anyway, uh, so then I went out that night and I saw this guy with a puppy and I started playing with the puppy and I was like, "Oh, your puppy's so cute." And he goes, "Do you not remember me?" And I'm like, "I've never met you before." And he goes, "Last night I helped you. You crashed your scooter." And I was like, "Oh fuck." And he's like, "I ride a motorcycle so I didn't want to call the cops or anything 'cause I know you would've gotten in trouble." And I was like, "Who helped me?" And he's like, "Some girl." So then my friend called me. He's like, "My boss told me." So it was my friend's boss from this hotel that I used to get wasted at. He was the bartender. So she hated me because I would just go get hammered at their nice establishment.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Do you look back on those days with any fondness? 'Cause you're sober now, you're all-

Annie Lederman 26:40 Um.

Joe Rogan 26:40 ... clean.

Annie Lederman 26:41 Yeah, I mean, I think I have a wealth of stories.

Joe Rogan 26:44 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 26:44 I was a juvenile delinquent and I had so many childhood traumas and abuses and weird things that happened. I was running for my life in Jersey City when I was 15 from like a fake modeling agent who was like-

Joe Rogan 26:54 Whoa.

Annie Lederman 26:54 ... a six foot eight drag queen named Mahogany.

Joe Rogan 26:56 What? Sh-

Annie Lederman 26:57 Running for my life-

Joe Rogan 26:58 Hold on.

Annie Lederman 26:58 ... trying to hide... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:58 This is a long good story.

Annie Lederman 27:00 I just have a lot of stories and-

Joe Rogan 27:01 This is not a story you can brush over.

Annie Lederman 27:03 All right, all right.

Joe Rogan 27:03 What happened? You were 15?

Annie Lederman 27:05 So I was... I had gone to-

Joe Rogan 27:07 Mahogany?

Annie Lederman 27:08 Mahogany, yeah. So I had gone to John Robert Powers Modeling School, one of those like fake-

Joe Rogan 27:12 Right.

Annie Lederman 27:12 ... modeling schools. And it's-

Joe Rogan 27:14 Where you pay like 200 bucks and they make like a compilation headshot?

Annie Lederman 27:17 Yeah, you like go. They give you classes in modeling, like that's a thing. It's like you either like are weirdly, weird looking alien hot and tall and skinny or-

Joe Rogan 27:26 Not.

Annie Lederman 27:26 Yeah. Or you're not. And I mean, I maybe could have done commercials or something. I was cute, but I, I, I also had very low self-esteem. It was just such a weird... It was such a weird thing to be doing. So, um, and I had been a tomboy up until that point, so we go... I go to this modeling thing and then we went to... Paid more money to go to like a modeling convention. And then they had actual modeling agencies and then they had just random people that I guess paid to be there. So Mahogany was one of them. And my mom's like super liberal and so she likes anything that's like a little on the fringe-

Joe Rogan 28:00 Mm-hmm.

Annie Lederman 28:00 ... that she could brag about at her book club or whatever.

Joe Rogan 28:03 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 28:03 If that sounds like I'm angry, I'm not angry. I've forgiven my mother. But, um, so they ended up... They were like, "We want to take your daughter for two weeks and we'll send her out on auditions and stuff over spring break. And we have this nice place in Jersey-"

Joe Rogan 28:21 When you were 15?

Annie Lederman 28:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:22 Your mom let Mahogany take you for two weeks?

Annie Lederman 28:25 Oh, there's so many more stories, Joe.

Joe Rogan 28:27 Jesus fucking Christ.

Annie Lederman 28:29 Yeah, no, there was... My mother did not have anything bad happen to her when she was growing up. She was adopted by a very nice family and she went to a nice boarding school and stuff and nothing happened to her.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Did she read the newspaper?

Annie Lederman 28:40 She didn't read the newspaper, I don't think much. So-

Joe Rogan 28:43 (laughs) .

Annie Lederman 28:43 ... she... It just... She didn't... She wasn't aware. So anyway, so then, okay, so I was... I went to this place in Jersey City. In Jersey City, I don't know how it is now, but it was fucking crazy back then.

Joe Rogan 28:56 It's still fucking crazy.

Annie Lederman 28:57 It was fucking crazy. So we were in this one, uh, little condo and it was Mahogany and then there was like some other people that were there. None of us were really that... I mean, I probably was like the hottest, but-

Joe Rogan 29:10 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 29:10 ... (laughs) I was pretty ra- I mean, I don't know. I think I was cute, but I don't think I was like a... I don't think I was a model and, uh, I don't think that was my future. Maybe I could have done something, but, um, the only person that I had really bonded with was this 23-year-old guy Chris, who was this Black guy from... I don't know where he was from, but he was really cool, he was really nice and he was a little creepy, like he would say things like, "If I was your age," but he never-

Joe Rogan 29:36 Mm-hmm.

Annie Lederman 29:36 ... was trying to fuck me or anything. But he kind of was protecting me. And at some point Mahogany got mad and there was... It was fake. Like I just... He would make me go buy him weed on the corner and stuff and it was just a fake thing. My parents paid like $1,500 f- to send me to this thing. And he would... I think he sent me out for, to be a... I had to go into New York by myself on the train at 15 wearing the sluttiest clothes ever to this thing to... And then he would tell me, "Pretend you're... Lie and say you're 21," to be an extra on like Sex and the City and stuff. It just wasn't real. There was nothing real about it. It was a total scam. So I was starting to catch on to that and I was supposed to be there for maybe 10 days, I think. And they... These next door neighbors, Shorty, this little Puerto Rican lady, I don't... she was a girl I smoked blunts with there. But, um, so this guy Chris was kind of protecting me and he would go into the city with me and then all of a sudden Mahogany didn't like how close we were so he separated us and he said, "You can't see each other anymore." And I was like, "Well, I don't feel safe if I can't talk to this guy. I just would rather go home. I want to call my parents. I don't think this is real. This seems like bullshit and a scam." And he was like, "You can't talk to your parents." And he locked the door and took the phone away from me. So I packed all my shit up and I threw it out the window.And I yelled down to Shorty. I was like, "Yo, I'm gonna run, so grab my shit." And then the guy, one of the other kids that was staying at the modeling place knew the situation, so he went down and bumped into the door, unlocked it without him noticing, and distracted him, and I just jetted out of the fucking house. And he started chasing me. I was, like, screaming. I was like, "Call the cops. Help me, help me!" And I was wearing a tube top. My, like, 15-year-old titties, I had nipple rings-

Joe Rogan 31:08 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 31:08 ... were, like, hanging out. I mean, I looked like a prostitute. The cops ended up coming, and they thought I was a prostitute. Mahogany got me at one point. I was hiding under cars for my life. Like, I thought I was gonna get killed. I was, like, screaming. People were just watering their plants like, "What the fuck?" And then they, like, produced-

Joe Rogan 31:21 You were hiding under cars?

Annie Lederman 31:22 Yeah, 'cause he was chasing me.

Joe Rogan 31:23 Did he-

Annie Lederman 31:24 So I was trying to hide. And he finally got me. He was like, "Get in the hou-..." Like, "You're ruining my scam," pretty much. And then he scratched my arm, but that's all. And then the cops came and arrested both of us, thought he was my pimp. Thought I was a prostitute. I come from like a...

Joe Rogan 31:36 Phew.

Annie Lederman 31:37 Like a, a middle-class family.

Joe Rogan 31:38 What did your moms say when you came home?

Annie Lederman 31:40 Um, well they came to the cops, and then the cops told them that they should arrest my parents.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 31:45 They're like, "We should..." And I think they just were in denial about it or whatever.

Joe Rogan 31:48 They should've arrested them, for a day at least.

Annie Lederman 31:51 Yeah, they did. And, and then more stuff happened after that.

Joe Rogan 31:54 What? They made more mistakes?

Annie Lederman 31:56 Yeah. But it's okay. We all make mistakes. I love my family.

Joe Rogan 32:00 That's cool.

Annie Lederman 32:00 They're good now. But I also look at all these things... No, I really, like, have had to do a lot of work on it, because-

Joe Rogan 32:07 To forgive them?

Annie Lederman 32:08 Yeah. Because, well, I blame myself for all of it, for most of it, which was my defense mechanism, like the stuff... I had some stuff happen with a teacher in high school, too, right after that, actually. It was about six months after that happened. And, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 32:21 Is this a therapy session?

Annie Lederman 32:22 I don't wanna do a therapy session.

Joe Rogan 32:23 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 32:24 I don't wanna do that.

Joe Rogan 32:25 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 32:25 But anyway, you had asked me about-

Joe Rogan 32:26 I know.

Annie Lederman 32:27 ... am I happy about these things? And so-

Joe Rogan 32:29 Yeah, because it's a wild life.

Annie Lederman 32:29 ... the point that I'm coming to, but the point that I'm coming to is I am happy with them. I'm so happy with, like, where my life is now that I can't be mad about any of these other things. Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 32:38 Right.

Annie Lederman 32:38 Like, they're, they're like exciting, and now they're funny 'cause I didn't get hurt.

Joe Rogan 32:42 That's what I'm saying. Like, looking back on the wild, drunken days-

Annie Lederman 32:44 Yeah, it's fucking hilarious.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah, there's some-

Annie Lederman 32:47 I did crazy shit.

Joe Rogan 32:48 There's some romance to it if you survive.

Annie Lederman 32:50 Mm-hmm. I flashed a chain gang once on my motor scooter, and then it didn't start, and I had to, like, put my shirt down and keep walking. Like, it's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 32:57 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 32:57 I did crazy shit. And I came out, like, genuinely, I feel good, you know? I'm happy with my life. So it's good. Thank you for getting me, getting me off of that path, by the way. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:07 Well, it's just, everyone that I know that's funny is fucked up and had something go wrong.

Annie Lederman 33:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:14 It's just, that's how... And it's, like, how you get through it, and then your insight-

Annie Lederman 33:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:19 ... once you get on the other end.

Annie Lederman 33:21 You persevere, and then you don't blame people. You don't, like, go around being mad at the world. I think it, it's, it's easier to be, um... I don't know. It's just-

Joe Rogan 33:30 Well, some of the most hilarious people did blame people.

Annie Lederman 33:33 Yeah. I guess that's true.

Joe Rogan 33:34 Like Kennison.

Annie Lederman 33:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:35 Kennison was always, you know, screaming about his ex-wives.

Annie Lederman 33:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:38 You know?

Annie Lederman 33:39 That's true. That's funny, too. I just, for my own personal sanity, cannot run around angry at everyone.

Joe Rogan 33:44 Well, you don't need to be. I mean, it's not necessary. And especially now that you're sober, which obviously Kennison never got.

Annie Lederman 33:50 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 33:50 You know, he, uh, he's-

Annie Lederman 33:52 Were you friends with him?

Joe Rogan 33:53 No, no. Never, no. Never met him. Saw him, saw him live a few times. Once, uh, once at work. Once when I was working. I was working at, uh, Great Woods, um, Center for the Performing Arts.

Annie Lederman 34:04 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 34:04 It was like a, an, it's like a amphitheater in, uh, Mansfield, Massachusetts.

Annie Lederman 34:09 What were you doing, selling funnel cakes?

Joe Rogan 34:11 (laughs) No security.

Annie Lederman 34:12 (laughs) Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 34:13 Yeah. And I got to see Cosby there, Rodney Dangerfield. Got to see a few people.

Annie Lederman 34:18 Were you, did you want to do comedy yet?

Joe Rogan 34:20 Um, I was 19. I probably had thought about it a little bit. You know, maybe. Maybe it had been in my head, like slightly. But I didn't really start thinking about until I was like 20, and then, when-

Annie Lederman 34:31 Did you feel embarrassed when you had that thought at first?

Joe Rogan 34:35 Of doing comedy?

Annie Lederman 34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:36 No. Um, but I did feel like it was preposterous.

Annie Lederman 34:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 I did feel like, um... Look, it's such a difficult way to make it. Like, I remember my girlfriend, when I was 21, her dad was mocking this idea that I was gonna be a comedian. Like, I remember him saying-

Annie Lederman 34:54 Smart guy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:55 Well, you know, I remember-

Annie Lederman 34:56 (laughs) The odds were not in your favor.

Joe Rogan 34:58 No, they're not, in anybody's favor. But I remember that's what he was saying. You know, that like, "Who makes it? How many people make it as a comedian?"

Annie Lederman 35:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:05 "And even if you do make it, how much money do you make?" He was a doctor.

Annie Lederman 35:08 That's so funny.

Joe Rogan 35:09 And he was really angry. Like, he just felt like I was a waste of his daughter's time.

Annie Lederman 35:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:13 It's really funny. But-

Annie Lederman 35:14 Is he still alive?

Joe Rogan 35:16 I don't know.

Annie Lederman 35:16 Let's get him on the podcast.

Joe Rogan 35:17 I have no idea.

Annie Lederman 35:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:18 It's probably not.

Annie Lederman 35:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:19 You know, doctors don't live that long, a lot of them. It's very stressful.

Annie Lederman 35:21 My doctor died. That was so, it was sad when he died. I was like, "I trusted you."

Joe Rogan 35:25 Well, there's a great book called Dead Doctors Don't Lie by this guy Joel Wallach, and what, uh, a lot of it has to do with nutrition.

Annie Lederman 35:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:31 And it's about mineral deficiencies and vitamin deficiencies-

Annie Lederman 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:34 ... and doctors who abuse drugs.

Annie Lederman 35:37 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 35:37 And it's essentially talking about how people rely on doctors for advice about health.

Annie Lederman 35:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:42 When in reality, doctors are good at very specific things. Like if you're a pediatrist, you're good at fixing feet. If you're a, you know, an orthopedic surgeon, you're good at knees and shoulders and shit. But you probably don't know a fuckload about nutrition.

Annie Lederman 35:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:53 And you really don't understand, like, the mechanisms-

Annie Lederman 35:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:56 ... of your body's absorptions of nutrients and minerals and vitamins. And one of the things that I've learned from doing this podcast is to understand that. Even, like, what I, the cursory understanding of it that I have, you have to go through fucking hours and hours and hours of reading and watching documentaries and listening to experts. And I still have to go back over and over and over it again. So I've talked to doctors before, and they've been like super dismissive about even taking vitamins. And I get angry at them.

Annie Lederman 36:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:23 And I'm like, "What are you..." "Well, I think all you need is a balanced diet." I'm like, "Well, you're retarded."

Annie Lederman 36:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Like, what are you talking about? That's a... And, and by that way, I don't mean someone with Down syndrome.

Annie Lederman 36:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:30 I mean, that is a retarded way and slowed down-

Annie Lederman 36:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:34 You are, you're, uh, you have a diminished capacity-

Annie Lederman 36:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:37 ... for advancement.

Annie Lederman 36:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:39 You're slowing down the reality of the progress of nutritional science.

Annie Lederman 36:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 36:44 This is a stupid thing you're doing right now.

Annie Lederman 36:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:46 You're giving me bad advice. You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I get angry. I'm like, "Why would you say that?" Like, this is du- oh, don't tell me that there's no benefit to taking vitamins when there's a-... fucking ass load of studies.

Annie Lederman 36:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:59 And there's data and science and it's all provable.

Annie Lederman 37:01 Well, do you think he's just saying that-

Joe Rogan 37:02 People have spent thousands of hours researching this stuff and trying to figure out what the fuck is good for you and what's not good for you. And some chubby asshole with a fucking skinny fat body is telling me that all you need is a balanced diet. I'm like, "Bitch, what's your diet like?"

Annie Lederman 37:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:15 You ain't got a balanced diet, right?

Annie Lederman 37:16 And do you think that they're just doing that because they don't get-

Joe Rogan 37:19 They're lazy.

Annie Lederman 37:19 ... money out of their, out of the vitamins?

Joe Rogan 37:21 No. No, they don't have, it's not-

Annie Lederman 37:22 They just don't feel like reading up on the new stuff?

Joe Rogan 37:24 Well, they haven't, they haven't decided to pursue it, that's all it is.

Annie Lederman 37:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:27 I mean, and, uh, if they did pursue it, they'd realize it's a fucking bottomless pit of information.

Annie Lederman 37:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:32 From essential fatty acids to different kinds of proteins and absorption of plant-based proteins versus animal based proteins and what's the benefit of grass-fed beef over regular beef. It's a fucking endless stream of infor-

Annie Lederman 37:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:43 I mean, if you follow someone like Dr. Rhonda Patrick, you realize really quickly that she is in the heart of this shit 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and she's still learning things.

Annie Lederman 37:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:52 You ne-, it never ends. It never ends. I mean, we, we, and also it varies. What's good for you is not necessarily good for me. Your diet might not be as effective as my diet on me.

Annie Lederman 38:01 I only eat elk. Is that bad?

Joe Rogan 38:03 That's good.

Annie Lederman 38:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:04 That's good for everybody.

Annie Lederman 38:05 All I eat is elk all day.

Joe Rogan 38:06 It'll turn you into a, a fucking savage. I'll give you some.

Annie Lederman 38:09 Some fucking elk, dude.

Joe Rogan 38:10 I'll give you some. I got it, I got some waiting for you back there.

Annie Lederman 38:12 A fanny pack and some goddamn elk, that's why I'm on here.

Joe Rogan 38:15 I got some. What kind of, uh, cooking setup do you have at your place?

Annie Lederman 38:18 I just have just a stove with-

Joe Rogan 38:20 You have a frying pan, like a cast iron frying pan?

Annie Lederman 38:22 Yeah, I do. I have a cast-

Joe Rogan 38:22 Okay. Do you know how to cook? Are you a good cook?

Annie Lederman 38:24 I'm all right.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Decent? Okay.

Annie Lederman 38:25 I'm decent.

Joe Rogan 38:26 I'll hook you up with some elk sausage, we'll start with that. I'll give you a recipe, how to cook it correctly. Do you have a thermometer?

Annie Lederman 38:31 Um, I'm really into-

Joe Rogan 38:32 Meat thermometer?

Annie Lederman 38:33 ... I'm really into (knocks on table) um, Bigfoot porn. Can you not say "elk sausage" in front of me?

Joe Rogan 38:37 Wah, wah, wah.

Annie Lederman 38:39 Um, I don't have a meat thermometer.

Joe Rogan 38:41 No? Okay. Well, uh, that's good for elk sausage. It's fine. You'll, you'll get a sense of when it's cooked.

Annie Lederman 38:45 I can't believe you wah wah wah'd me.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Wah wah wah.

Annie Lederman 38:48 'Cause I didn't get to it quick enough? That's a good joke.

Joe Rogan 38:49 Well, you were talking about elk sausage, bro.

Annie Lederman 38:52 I'm sorry, I'm insulting your...

Joe Rogan 38:53 No, it's just Bigfoot dick, elk sausage, that's-

Annie Lederman 38:56 I don't know why I wouldn't draw those two... I wouldn't pull those together.

Joe Rogan 39:01 Why, you wouldn't?

Annie Lederman 39:02 Yeah. Why would, why would I not have-

Joe Rogan 39:03 Well, one of them is an ungulate. The other one is a legendary primate.

Annie Lederman 39:06 Oh my God. Ugh. (laughs) You're really getting stuck on semantics here.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Listen, you're the one who, uh, cracked the joke.

Annie Lederman 39:14 Let me just make some fucking jokes. I just got accused of doing a therapy session and now I'm-

Joe Rogan 39:18 Oh...

Annie Lederman 39:19 ... telling jokes?

Joe Rogan 39:21 Listen-

Annie Lederman 39:21 I'm feeling triggered.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Are you feeling judged?

Annie Lederman 39:23 (laughs) No. No, but, um, I'm not feeling judged.

Joe Rogan 39:27 But everybody that I know that has had those wild, drunken days and has come out on the other side-

Annie Lederman 39:32 Sunde.

Joe Rogan 39:32 ... there's something, like, nostalgic about it. Like, you look back-

Annie Lederman 39:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:36 ... and you go, "Huh, I made it through that."

Annie Lederman 39:39 Have you been to an AA meeting? You can't, it's like the good old times in AA or I always felt like people were either telling these stories that were so insane, and I was like, "I'm not an alcoholic," or they were like, um, "That's pussy shit. Like-"

Joe Rogan 39:51 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 39:51 "... you're not in our... Get out of here."

Joe Rogan 39:53 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 39:53 "You're not even cool enough to be here."

Joe Rogan 39:54 Like Celebrity Rehab, right? Did you, did you ever watch that show?

Annie Lederman 39:57 Uh-uh.

Joe Rogan 39:58 One of the best parts about it was Eric Roberts, you know, Julia Roberts' brother?

Annie Lederman 40:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:01 He's been in a bunch of movies. He, uh, was there for weed addiction.

Annie Lederman 40:05 Yeah, that's funny.

Joe Rogan 40:06 And everybody else is having the fucking DTs, they're on the floor in the fetal position shaking.

Annie Lederman 40:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:10 He's reading the paper.

Annie Lederman 40:11 He's losing weight, he's getting his shit done.

Joe Rogan 40:14 He's got a cup of coffee. (laughs)

Annie Lederman 40:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:14 Just-

Annie Lederman 40:14 He's on a treadmill.

Joe Rogan 40:15 It was so ridiculous. Like, s- some people, you know, their stories are a joke, I'm like-

Annie Lederman 40:20 I did quit smoking weed, and it did make things a lot easier. Like laundry, just little things. I was like, "Oh, that was maybe making things." I would always smoke weed before I would clean my apartment, and that was like seven years to get my apartment clean.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Yeah, it can get distracting.

Annie Lederman 40:33 It doesn't a- it does not affect me well.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Yeah. Well, when I do things, like if I wanna clean my office, I just have like a, the thing. Like, "This is what we're doing now." And, and I find that-

Annie Lederman 40:42 Adderall?

Joe Rogan 40:43 Even listening to music is not good. Listening-

Annie Lederman 40:45 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 I find that, I used to listen to podcasts while I cleaned my office. But then I find that I would be like pausing and listening to a particular part.

Annie Lederman 40:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:52 And then I'd wanna rewind it. I'm like, "Oh, I'm fucking with myself here. I'm distracting myself."

Annie Lederman 40:55 Right. And then that's a weird defense mechanism too, because I do that all the time too. I'm always multitasking and I always have to be doing three things at once. It's like-

Joe Rogan 41:02 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 41:02 ... "Why?"

Joe Rogan 41:03 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 41:03 'Cause it's gonna make me, I'm gonna slow down so much, I might have to like deal with my own shit.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Mm. Yeah. So like f- writing too, like sometimes I'll write listening to music. But most of the time, it's better without music.

Annie Lederman 41:14 With lyrics?

Joe Rogan 41:16 Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll, sometimes lyrics and sometimes foreign music. I like foreign music 'cause I don't know what they're saying.

Annie Lederman 41:21 What kind?

Joe Rogan 41:22 Brazilian, I like a lot of Brazilian music. I like a lot of Spanish music.

Annie Lederman 41:25 Some Bollywood or what?

Joe Rogan 41:26 I listen to some of that.

Annie Lederman 41:27 All right.

Joe Rogan 41:27 You heard of Daler Mehndi? Do you know who Daler Mehndi is?

Annie Lederman 41:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:30 No? You don't know Daler Mehndi?

Annie Lederman 41:32 No.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Oh, he's amazing. He's really cool.

Annie Lederman 41:34 I just listen to, I listen to a lot of Elton John. That's what I'm into right now. That's why I, I like to wear all my crazy things too.

Joe Rogan 41:40 I know.

Annie Lederman 41:40 I listen to Elton John and that shit.

Joe Rogan 41:42 I'm gonna play you some Daler Mehndi.

Annie Lederman 41:43 Let me hear it.

Joe Rogan 41:43 I'll play it on my phone. Careful. Be- You think we'll get banned? Yeah, 100%. 100%? All right.

Annie Lederman 41:47 Why?

Joe Rogan 41:47 It's gotten him before. Even if we out our existence?

Annie Lederman 41:49 Oh, 'cause you can't-

Joe Rogan 41:50 Yeah, yeah. How do you spell his name? D-A... There it is, Daler Mehndi. Um, what does this say? "The song is not currently available in your country or region." What?

Annie Lederman 42:03 Oh my God, I love it.

Joe Rogan 42:05 I fuckin'...

Annie Lederman 42:05 Now I'm really into it.

Joe Rogan 42:06 I fuckin' bought it.

Annie Lederman 42:06 I want that shit.

Joe Rogan 42:08 What is that? Oh, here it goes. (instrumental music plays)

Annie Lederman 42:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:12 Ah. He can't... La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

Annie Lederman 42:15 La, la, la, la.

Joe Rogan 42:15 He's trying to shut it up. I know how-

Annie Lederman 42:16 We can't hear it. We can't hear it. We can't hear it.

Joe Rogan 42:19 ... Ah.

Annie Lederman 42:19 We can't hear it.

Joe Rogan 42:19 He's trying to get flagged maybe. Even that, yeah.

Annie Lederman 42:19 That's actually a woman getting fucked by Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 42:21 Even the guy yelling? Yes. Wow, okay. Welcome to the wonderful world of, uh, the internet. Um, anyway, I like Daler Mehndi. He sounds cool. But I think-

Annie Lederman 42:32 Is his name Daler?

Joe Rogan 42:33 D-A-H... Hold on, I'll play the song again.

Annie Lederman 42:36 Oh, I would've liked it better if it was like the Daler symbol.

Joe Rogan 42:38 D-A-L-E-R M-E-H-N-D-I. But I think he got arrested for human trafficking.

Annie Lederman 42:45 But can you still like his work?

Joe Rogan 42:47 That's a problem. Like, I was at, uh, Dave Chappelle and I did some shows the other day.

Annie Lederman 42:51 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:52 And we had a DJ, and the DJ, uh, was playing all this, uh, Michael Jackson music.And, uh, he is so good.

Annie Lederman 43:01 Yeah, he's great.

Joe Rogan 43:01 Even though he's a fucking pedophile, allegedly, most likely.

Annie Lederman 43:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:07 Pretty probably.

Annie Lederman 43:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:08 Definitely did something wrong.

Annie Lederman 43:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:10 Even though it's still fucking great.

Annie Lederman 43:13 Yeah, but also he's dead.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 43:16 So what ... If you don't listen to his music, you're punishing ... What are you punishing?

Joe Rogan 43:20 Okay, but-

Annie Lederman 43:21 The pun- the man's dead.

Joe Rogan 43:22 Right, but even if he wasn't dead, like if Ted Bundy had some great poetry, would you want to read it? Would you enjoy it?

Annie Lederman 43:31 Um ...

Joe Rogan 43:32 No. It's creepy.

Annie Lederman 43:33 I don't know, probably not, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Yeah. I mean, I don't know-

Annie Lederman 43:35 This-

Joe Rogan 43:36 I really don't know what Michael Jackson did. I don't know, and I don't think anybody does other than-

Annie Lederman 43:40 It's so-

Joe Rogan 43:40 ... the people that he did it to.

Annie Lederman 43:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:42 But there's a lot of fucking weirdness to it, for sure.

Annie Lederman 43:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:45 Holding hands with little boys and, uh-

Annie Lederman 43:47 I know. It's really uncomfortable.

Joe Rogan 43:48 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 43:48 It's just like inappropriate boundaries, and that's enough to like molest a kid.

Joe Rogan 43:52 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 43:52 Honestly, just having that inappropriate-

Joe Rogan 43:54 Listen-

Annie Lederman 43:55 ... blurred thing between kids and grownups, it's not good.

Joe Rogan 43:57 Yeah, you hold hands with your nieces and nephews and ... That makes sense. Your children, that makes sense. But if you're a 55-year-old man and you're holding hands with an 11-year-old boy in Dubai-

Annie Lederman 44:08 Yeah, that's weird.

Joe Rogan 44:09 ... I gotta get, I gotta get suspicious.

Annie Lederman 44:11 Yeah. I gotta question whether I'm gonna enjoy this song that I'm enjoying right now.

Joe Rogan 44:15 << I wanna be startin' somethin'. Don't try to be startin' somethin' >>

Annie Lederman 44:18 Uh-huh. (snaps fingers) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:18 But it was so good. I was listening to the music and I was like, "Goddamn, this guy was amazing."

Annie Lederman 44:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:23 He was so exceptional.

Annie Lederman 44:24 But there's no way he wasn't molested. I mean doesn't he seem so molested?

Joe Rogan 44:28 Yeah. Well, um, in the interest of being, beating a fucking dead horse, I have talked about this many times on the podcast, where I think that he was a castrato, which is someone who was castrated when he was very young-

Annie Lederman 44:42 Oh.

Joe Rogan 44:43 ... to pre- preserve his v- high-pitched voice.

Annie Lederman 44:45 Oh.

Joe Rogan 44:46 Then his doctor, the same doctor that killed him, came out later ... This is long after I'd predicted this ... and said that he was chemically castrated to preserve his voice. So he, he confirmed what I was saying. Now, whether this doctor's telling the truth or not-

Annie Lederman 44:58 So with castration, are you not able to get a boner?

Joe Rogan 45:01 I don't believe so. Um, I think-

Annie Lederman 45:02 Oh my God, so he maybe wasn't molesting them but he was just ...

Joe Rogan 45:05 He could've been just being weird with them. I don't know. Who ... Maybe he didn't do anything with them. Maybe he just wanted to be a child. Maybe his childhood was stripped from him because he was famous from the time he was five fucking years old and his father did something to him.

Annie Lederman 45:17 Yeah, definitely was a weird life.

Joe Rogan 45:18 According to the doctor, his d- his father did s- did something to him, like chemical castration is what they do to pedophiles.

Annie Lederman 45:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:25 They'll do it to pedophiles so that they can never get erections, and it b- it basically stops your body's production of testosterone and kills your testes. And they do it with some, some chemical injection, and apparently, according to the doctor, that's what they did to Michael Jackson. Which, you think about his voice, it makes sense.

Annie Lederman 45:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Because his voice was insane.

Annie Lederman 45:44 Yeah, it was so high.

Joe Rogan 45:44 It was so high-pitched and if you listen to like castratos, those, uh ... There's o- there's only a few recordings of actual castratos, but it was a common practice. Not common, it wasn't like everybody did it, but it was a practice that was done to young boys to preserve their high-pitched voice, where they would fucking castrate them.

Annie Lederman 46:02 What a word.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Horrible.

Annie Lederman 46:04 Castrato.

Joe Rogan 46:05 But they did it ... I mean people would let their children get the- either balls chopped off just so they could sing good.

Annie Lederman 46:11 So they would sep-

Joe Rogan 46:11 And they would, you know, it'd be very valuable to them.

Annie Lederman 46:13 How long, how long ago was that?

Joe Rogan 46:15 Well, there's a recording. So the recording, uh, I don't think they had recordings until like the late 1800s, I don't believe. But-

Annie Lederman 46:24 There was a lot of dance back in the day.

Joe Rogan 46:26 When was that?

Annie Lederman 46:26 A lot of boys dancing for kings.

Guest 46:27 When was that, uh ... Last one is 1922.

Joe Rogan 46:29 1922 was the last castrato recording?

Guest 46:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:32 And how old was that dude?

Guest 46:35 Mm ...

Joe Rogan 46:35 So he was probably born in the 1800s or something? (exhales)

Guest 46:40 Yeah, well he, he died in that same year, so I don't know.

Joe Rogan 46:43 Hmm.

Guest 46:44 Fucking ...

Joe Rogan 46:44 It's, but it's ... It's a thing.

Annie Lederman 46:46 He died never nutting, but always beautiful singing.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Have you ever heard it?

Annie Lederman 46:51 He had the voice of an angel and the-

Joe Rogan 46:52 We can't play that either, right?

Guest 46:54 No.

Joe Rogan 46:54 No. You should listen to it though. We'll, I'll play it for you.

Annie Lederman 46:56 That sounds so upsetting to listen to.

Joe Rogan 46:58 It's upsetting. It is upsetting. It's haunting. It's haunting.

Annie Lederman 46:59 Yeah, you can't en- Yeah, you can't enjoy that.

Joe Rogan 47:01 Yeah, I played it for a friend of mine the other night and he was like, "What?" And I was like, "Look, you gotta listen to this." And I played it, he was like, "Is that fucking real?" And he's like, "It sounds like, like someone who'd like did something to somebody." And you're like, "Ahhh."

Annie Lederman 47:11 Maybe people should jerk off to it to, like in honor of the man.

Guest 47:15 He was 63 when he died in 1922, he was born in 1958 and those recordings were-

Joe Rogan 47:20 1850.

Guest 47:20 ... done in 1902 to 1904, so that makes him 40s? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:26 Mm-hmm.

Guest 47:26 He was in his 40s when he was recording those.

Joe Rogan 47:28 You said, you said 1958? You mean he was born in 1858?

Guest 47:30 1858 is when he was born, I'm sorry, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:32 Mm-hmm.

Guest 47:32 And died in 1922.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Wow. Yeah, that's ... The whole thing's dark.

Annie Lederman 47:37 The look you gave me during my circle jerk idea was rude.

Joe Rogan 47:42 What look did I give you?

Annie Lederman 47:43 You gave me a, come on bitch, circle jerk for the ... I was saying, it, to ... If he couldn't co-

Joe Rogan 47:50 Are you dwelling on the look?

Annie Lederman 47:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:51 Are you projecting? Listen, I know this is uncomfortable for you and you're nervous to be here, but I'm your friend and I love you and I want you to be happy. I'm not looking-

Annie Lederman 47:58 You want me to be happy?

Joe Rogan 47:59 Yes, I'm not looking to-

Annie Lederman 47:59 I know, you are so nice.

Joe Rogan 48:00 I'm not looking to trip you up.

Annie Lederman 48:01 My king.

Joe Rogan 48:02 Come on.

Annie Lederman 48:02 The king.

Joe Rogan 48:03 You know I love you.

Annie Lederman 48:04 I know, I love you too.

Joe Rogan 48:05 And that's why you're here.

Annie Lederman 48:06 Thank you so much for having me, I really do-

Joe Rogan 48:07 My pleasure.

Annie Lederman 48:07 ... appreciate it. I am trying to be chill. It's just like a cool-

Joe Rogan 48:11 Are you weirded out by this, by being here?

Annie Lederman 48:13 I'm not weirded out, I'm trying to be in the moment. I like to be funny impulsively, like it's my impulse to always like tell jokes and stuff.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Mm-hmm.

Annie Lederman 48:19 And this is a more like chill, less jokey-

Joe Rogan 48:23 You could be jokey.

Annie Lederman 48:25 Okay, now there's pressure to be jokey. (laughs)

Guest 48:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:28 You're t- you're overthinking this shit too much.

Annie Lederman 48:30 I'm not overthinking anything. I'm being chill and normal.

Joe Rogan 48:32 Okay, you have two cups of coffee. (laughs)

Annie Lederman 48:34 I have two cups of coffee. One's calling me a cunt.

Joe Rogan 48:37 What is, uh, one of 'em? One of 'em is a caveman, what's the other one?

Annie Lederman 48:40 This is caveman and this is a cunt mug. I got it for my dad and then I got one for myself too.

Joe Rogan 48:44 You got it for your dad?

Annie Lederman 48:45 Yeah, as a joke. Well, my dad and I ... It also looks like it says unt. We, one time, uh, we went to ... We were at the post office. My dad's very funny. He reminds me of Caddy Daddy actually, the Kyle Dunnigans thing.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Oh really?

Annie Lederman 48:59 You know him?

Joe Rogan 48:59 By the way, that fucking thing is hilarious what you guys are doing.

Annie Lederman 49:02 I know, it's fun, right?

Joe Rogan 49:03 Are you doing more of those?

Annie Lederman 49:03 Yeah, we, we recorded one and then, uh ...It just wasn't funny. It wasn't ... We have to rethink it.

Joe Rogan 49:10 Mm-hmm.

Annie Lederman 49:11 Don't wanna put out ... We don't wanna disappoint with ******* too.

Joe Rogan 49:13 But the one you did do, the one you did put out is hilarious.

Annie Lederman 49:15 Yeah, that was fun.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 49:17 He's so fun. He's hilarious. But, um, so my dad and I were at, uh, the post office and mailing something out, and I was taking a while to mail something out. And just, we're just jokingly antagonistic, you know. My dad's like, "Come on," and I was like, "Dad, leave me alone. I'm not done," you know. We're just joking with each other.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Right.

Annie Lederman 49:33 And this old woman who's been observing, she goes to leave and then she just pivots before she leaves and turns around. She goes, she goes, "You know what, young lady? You're a real itch."

Joe Rogan 49:44 An itch?

Annie Lederman 49:44 An itch. And my dad goes, "I think you mean an aunt," which is fucking one of our best stories.

Joe Rogan 49:50 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 49:50 My daddy's funny.

Joe Rogan 49:51 So she doesn't realize you're just joking around?

Annie Lederman 49:53 She didn't get we were just joking. She was like, "Oh, you're being so ..." And it's like-

Joe Rogan 49:57 Did you tell her-

Annie Lederman 49:57 ... "Get over it."

Joe Rogan 49:58 ... "Hey, this is my dad. We're just joking around"?

Annie Lederman 49:59 No, my dad said she was an aunt and we laughed, so I think she got it.

Joe Rogan 50:03 And then she left?

Annie Lederman 50:03 Yeah. Well, she was leaving when he said it, yeah. And we just were like crying in the parking lot.

Joe Rogan 50:06 The, the fact that someone, like, needs to stop you and, and put you in your place.

Annie Lederman 50:11 Yeah, it's just so silly. But it's like, she was old. What does she know?

Joe Rogan 50:14 Ah.

Annie Lederman 50:15 I'm sure I'm- I'm just gonna try really hard to not be one of those old people.

Joe Rogan 50:18 What do you think you're gonna be like as an old lady?

Annie Lederman 50:19 I think I'm gonna peak.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Really?

Annie Lederman 50:20 I'm excited. Well, I'm-

Joe Rogan 50:22 Like Betty White style?

Annie Lederman 50:22 ... I'm trying really hard to, I'm trying really hard to be in the moment and appreciate each new age and not get anything in my face or do anything like that and just-

Joe Rogan 50:30 Get anything in your face? (laughs)

Annie Lederman 50:32 Well, you know, except cum shots, obviously. No.

Joe Rogan 50:34 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 50:34 I mean, like, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 50:36 Oh, you mean like filler and-

Annie Lederman 50:36 I don't ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 50:37 I try not to do anything too crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Please don't.

Annie Lederman 50:40 It's just-

Joe Rogan 50:40 Ooh.

Annie Lederman 50:40 ... it's fighting an inevitable thing and a thi- I think it's a gift to age, you know. It's, we get to be different every day. My mom was a ... She worked at a, this organization called Gray Panthers, which (laughs) can put-

Joe Rogan 50:52 Gray Panthers?

Annie Lederman 50:53 Yeah, it was for old people.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Oh, people that like to fuck?

Annie Lederman 50:55 Old people that like to fuck. I mean, I'm sure they like to fuck.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Cougars.

Annie Lederman 50:57 But Maggie Kuhn, Maggie Kuhn was the woman's name, which I know there's a little bit of a parallel between Gray Panthers, Black Panthers.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Raccoons, coons, oh.

Annie Lederman 51:06 Her last name is Kuhn, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Oh. Wow.

Annie Lederman 51:07 But it was spelled differently. Um, but, so she was this ... It was in Philadelphia and she was, uh, she like died when she was 90, maybe 89. But we used to hang out with her all the time and she had dated, famously dated like a 40-year-old I think in her 80s or something.

Joe Rogan 51:22 Holla.

Annie Lederman 51:22 So I think she was fucking.

Joe Rogan 51:23 Was she pegging him?

Annie Lederman 51:24 She might've been pegging him. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 51:26 There's a lot of that.

Annie Lederman 51:26 She could peg at that point.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Remember-

Annie Lederman 51:27 She had a lot of hats and a lot of cats and-

Joe Rogan 51:29 She just lays down. He can peg himself.

Annie Lederman 51:30 To peg ... Oh, he can peg himself.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Yeah. You remember, uh, Elizabeth Taylor? It was like she married a series of gay guys before she died.

Annie Lederman 51:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:39 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 51:40 Huh.

Joe Rogan 51:40 You think that happens to really pretty old ladies? They, you know, they probably-

Annie Lederman 51:43 Well, they just want a man to tell them they're beautiful. I've been-

Joe Rogan 51:46 Maybe.

Annie Lederman 51:46 ... just showered with compliments by gay men.

Joe Rogan 51:48 Yeah, I think they go through menopause too and they probably give up on the idea of sex.

Annie Lederman 51:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:52 And then they just want pretty men around them.

Annie Lederman 51:54 Yeah. I mean, not that her gays were that pretty. I've had prettier gays.

Joe Rogan 51:58 I don't remember. Pff. (laughs)

Annie Lederman 51:58 (laughs) I've definitely been the la- I've been the last puss for a couple guys.

Joe Rogan 52:02 The last puss before gay?

Annie Lederman 52:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Really?

Annie Lederman 52:04 Where I'm like ... And then one guy got married and shit. I was sure he was ... I sure, I was sure it was his last.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Listen, just because he got married doesn't mean he's not gay.

Annie Lederman 52:11 Yeah, that's a good point.

Joe Rogan 52:12 I know of dudes who's super married.

Annie Lederman 52:12 But he ... Guys would reach, gay men would reach out to him. They would try to touch him and I would like ... He was always wearing a suit. We lived in Santa Fe. I'm like, "Why are you wearing a suit?"

Joe Rogan 52:18 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 52:19 They'd like slap his, their hands away like, "Not until he comes out. He's mine."

Joe Rogan 52:22 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 52:22 I knew. I mean, I was like, "There's no way."

Joe Rogan 52:24 How do you-

Annie Lederman 52:25 He used to always wanna have like threesomes with other guys. Like, there was always-

Joe Rogan 52:27 Oh, boy.

Annie Lederman 52:28 I remember we invited my one friend in. We were just drinking so much. We called, uh, we called, um, Jack Daniels OJ so we didn't feel weird and we're like, "Pass the OJ."

Joe Rogan 52:36 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 52:36 We were just like fucking shitfaced all the time. Shaw came over, went to this college at ... When my college ended up going out of business, just this little school in Santa Fe. Just hammered. And, uh, my friend who I worked at a restaurant with, guy friend, he wanted to hu- hook up with me, so he's like, "Sweet." So he like hops into bed with us and then he leaves an- the next day he's like, "He kept looking me in the eye, Annie. He kept looking at me."

Joe Rogan 52:58 Wait a minute.

Annie Lederman 52:58 "He kept trying to make eye contact with me." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:00 So he was boning you and your, your boyfriend's like, "Ah."

Annie Lederman 53:04 I don't know if he ended up boning me. I think he would just ... He hopped in and then hopped out pretty quick.

Joe Rogan 53:08 What does that mean?

Annie Lederman 53:09 'Cause he got freaked out 'cause he kept looking at him.

Joe Rogan 53:11 Oh. Oh, he gave it a shot.

Annie Lederman 53:12 I don't know if it actually ... I mean, we were in full blackouts-

Joe Rogan 53:14 And then panicked.

Annie Lederman 53:14 ... at that point, so who knows?

Joe Rogan 53:15 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 53:15 I have n- I don't remember any of it. I really feel like I'm five years younger than I am, because I just blacked out five years.

Joe Rogan 53:21 You should write about those days.

Annie Lederman 53:23 I know, I will. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:24 It would be a hilarious book.

Annie Lederman 53:25 There were so many ... I have so many crazy stories. And it's funny because I always thought everyone else had them.

Joe Rogan 53:29 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 53:30 I really thought everyone else had this cra- I'm like, "You didn't steal cars when you were little?" Like ...

Joe Rogan 53:34 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 53:34 "You didn't do all these things? That never happened to you?"

Joe Rogan 53:37 Have you thought about writing a book?

Annie Lederman 53:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:39 But that'd be a ... It's also a great like comedy writing exercise.

Annie Lederman 53:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Like to sit down-

Annie Lederman 53:43 I know. I wanna tell these stories on stage some more.

Joe Rogan 53:46 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 53:46 Flash and the chain gang was ... I mean, there's just been so many. I drew some pictures. I draw too, so ... I haven't drawn in a while, but I drew like a coloring book once that I never followed through with, but it was, uh, Lessons from a Chubby Alcoholic and it was just different like true scenes from my drinking days.

Joe Rogan 54:02 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 54:02 Just fucking crazy the shit I did.

Joe Rogan 54:04 So how did you stop?

Annie Lederman 54:05 Uh, well, Tate. That actually brings me back to Tate. So I moved to New York. I wanted to do standup so bad. I had just done that one thing at The Cowgirl in Santa Fe and I liked it. I really, I, I was nervous and I don't remember. I'm sure it was like all abortion jokes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:19 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 54:19 I don't really remember, but then I do remember my first set after that. Um, I remember all the beginning ones. So the first one was when I got to New York. I, I moved to New York to do standup. I had crashed my scooter, so ... And I wanted to move to LA. I had met people out in LA and I thought that was where I wanted to go, but because I kept drinking and driving, I was like, "I have a drinking and driving problem. I have to go somewhere where I can't drive." So I moved to New York, thank God, because I think I really ... I think it helped me really push and get really strong before I came out here. So I moved to New York. I wanted to do standup. I was just drinking. I was partying. I have so many friends that I just met on benders, like random shit. I was just doing insane things, day drinking. Just way more drunk than everyone else. My, I left-

Joe Rogan 55:02 Hmm.

Annie Lederman 55:02 ... my drinking buddies in Santa Fe and everyone else was kinda like, "What are you up to?" So I was staying on my friend's couch-And I wanted to do stand up. And so finally, she was like, "Look, um, let's just go to an open mic. I'll go with you." And I was like, "All right." So I got all my jokes ready, we go to an open mic. Um, I go up, I drop my setlist, and then I completely black out. I'm so-

Joe Rogan 55:24 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 55:24 ... nervous. I'm like in this basement at this place called Cake Shop. Uh, my friend Caper Lamp was the host of it, or was she the host yet? I don't know. Anyway, I got up on stage and completely bombed and just started yelling at everyone.

Joe Rogan 55:36 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 55:36 I just started yelling at all of these comics, like, "Fuck you, you pieces of shit." Like, I don't know what happened. And then I sat down at the bar, and I'd already quit Jager. Jager was the first thing I quit. So I was sitting at the bar, and some guy came up, this comic, who I did not like or think was funny or want anything to do with, and he kept buying me drinks, and he was buying me shots of Jager, and I was like, "Look, man, I'm, like, struggling with drinking. I really, like, I can't really say no to a drink, but please stop buying them for me." And he just kept buying them, like I just was, uh, you know, I wasn't gonna stop. And so he kept buying them and then, so then I ended up waking up on his air mattress. This is after my first open mic. Waking up on his air mattress, fully clothed, didn't follow him or anything, just like trapped somewhere in Bushwick. It was snowing. I was like, "Where am I? What am I doing?" I looked around his apartment, I'm like, "All I wanna do is be a comedian." I was so sure that's what I wanted to do. I was spending all this time drinking, getting fucked up.

Joe Rogan 56:28 And this is only your second set ever?

Annie Lederman 56:30 This was my second, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:31 What-

Annie Lederman 56:31 This was when I had moved to New York. It was my first one in New York.

Joe Rogan 56:33 What had made you so sure that you wanted to be a comedian?

Annie Lederman 56:35 I just never wanted to do anything else. And when I, I think-

Joe Rogan 56:38 But you'd only had one set at a karaoke bar.

Annie Lederman 56:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:40 And then this second set where you screamed and told everybody to fuck off.

Annie Lederman 56:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Like, what was it that made you think that you could do it?

Annie Lederman 56:47 Um, I just, I don't know, I just never wanted to do anything else. I just didn't have another, there was no other plan. I had been a special ed teacher, I had done a go-go dancer, I'd worked at the bars, I'd done all that stuff. I just never, I just always, I just felt like if I could do it, I could do it.

Joe Rogan 57:01 Mm.

Annie Lederman 57:01 I mean, I guess it's that little bit of that delusion and that... But I just, I never, but I knew that I wouldn't be able to do it. I knew there were obstacles in my way, and I knew that drinking was one of them. I had talked to a comic before, uh, that sat at the open mic, and he had said, "Just try not to..." His advice to me was, "Try not to hook up with the, with the guys at open mics, because you're gonna get a reputation when you're just trying to be respected." So he had said that to me.

Joe Rogan 57:24 That's good advice.

Annie Lederman 57:25 I think it was great advice, 'cause it's also, there's no time for that.

Joe Rogan 57:28 Right.

Annie Lederman 57:28 This was my whole hustle.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Also, what are the odds that person's gonna follow through? If you follow through and become a comic, what are the odds that they are?

Annie Lederman 57:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Like, you might get hitched up to some fucking loser.

Annie Lederman 57:36 Yeah, you definitely don't-

Joe Rogan 57:37 Who's never gonna make it.

Annie Lederman 57:37 ... wanna get hitched up. But it also was, I needed to put all of my energy, I was in an, I'm s- barely in a place now to be in a relationship, so it's like, (laughs) this was 11 years ago. So I, um, I, I, when I woke up on that guy's air mattress, I was like, "Fuck, like, I already broke the thing that I wanted to do," and I was already, you know, from all my, like, weird sexual salty stuff when I was younger, I just didn't have a good relationship with sex. Drinking didn't help with it. You know, everything was just out of control. And all, and I had this thing now, this, like, precious thing that I want so bad. So, you know, crashing my scooter, almost dying, all that shit, not, wasn't enough. But standup really was, that's what I wanted. So I went to my friend's house, and I called Tate. I just called Tate. I was like, "I want, I gotta, I just wanna do this, and I wanna quit drinking." And so he told me to go to meetings and just ch- try it out.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Do you remember your first meeting?

Annie Lederman 58:32 Yeah, I went to one, I think it was the Lower East Side, and th- uh, the guy sharing was talking about, he's like, "I always knew I had a problem because I, I, when I was two, I took all of the Tylenol." And I was like, "What are you talking about?" Any kid with a childproof thing is just gonna eat the pills. I remember kind of judging him and being like, "Whatever." But it was good to have that community then, 'cause I needed to detach myself from like the partiers and all that lifestyle. So I did go to, I did 90 in 90, I did a meeting every day for 90 days, and then I, I never went back.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Some people actually learn how to do standup from those meetings. There was a, a guy named Dave-

Annie Lederman 59:05 I learned how to bomb. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:06 There was a guy named Dave Fitzgerald, who was a really funny comedian back in Boston, and, um, he learned how to do standup from making hilarious stories out of his drunk days.

Annie Lederman 59:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:17 'Cause he, he was a fucking raging alcoholic.

Annie Lederman 59:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:19 Did the same thing, k- just quit, and then started doing standup and literally learned how to do it-

Annie Lederman 59:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:24 ... from the meetings, 'cause he would tell these crazy stories about being blacked out, drunk-

Annie Lederman 59:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:28 ... and fucked up, and being in gun fights-

Annie Lederman 59:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:30 ... and, you know, high-speed chases-

Annie Lederman 59:32 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:32 ... and all this nuts.

Annie Lederman 59:33 If you had alcohol just shut, crazy stuff goes down.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Oh, yeah. But those guys-

Annie Lederman 59:37 But yeah, no, it's, you're-

Joe Rogan 59:37 ... many of 'em learn how to do standup.

Annie Lederman 59:38 Yeah, you're standing up in front of an audience.

Joe Rogan 59:40 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 59:40 I was brought up Quaker too, so our church was, you stand up and speak and everyone just-

Joe Rogan 59:44 Oh.

Annie Lederman 59:44 ... sits there in silence and watches you.

Joe Rogan 59:45 Quakers?

Annie Lederman 59:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:45 What's that like? Which one's Quaker? That's the oat box.

Annie Lederman 59:48 Oat box-

Joe Rogan 59:49 Yeah.

Annie Lederman 59:49 Everyone's like, gets it-

Joe Rogan 59:50 Ri-

Annie Lederman 59:50 ... confused with Amish, which has nothing to do with Amish.

Joe Rogan 59:52 What's the difference?

Annie Lederman 59:53 Chri- it's just a very chill Christianity, so it's-

Joe Rogan 59:56 Were those the Pilgrims?

Annie Lederman 59:57 ... pacifists.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Were the Pilgrims Quakers?

Annie Lederman 59:59 No, I don't think they were. The, they were, um, when did Quakerism start? I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 They're pacifists?

Annie Lederman 1:00:04 Yeah, they're pacifists. They believe that God's in the form of an inner light that's in everyone and everything.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Hmm.

Annie Lederman 1:00:08 So why would you fight? I mean, I agree with that just from hallucinogens and shit too. But, um, w- it's something I struggle with. Like, I have to look back at, you know, childhood predators, and I'm like, "Can I, I have to forgive these people because they are from the same light," I guess?

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 What is the, what's the wacky thing with Quakers?

Annie Lederman 1:00:24 Um, Quakers are, well, it's just very, it's just, you sit in silence at the churches. There's two types, there's programmed and unprogrammed. I was unprogrammed, which is the super chill one. There's no Bible talk, there's no preacher, there's nothing, you just sit in benches facing each other. My meeting house had-

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 I don't... Wait, wait-

Annie Lederman 1:00:39 ... these old creaky-

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 Hold on. Psh, explain. What are you talking about?

Annie Lederman 1:00:42 So it's a, like a, it's a meeting house, that you meet up at the, on Sun-

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 You just stare at each other?

Annie Lederman 1:00:46 ... on Sundays. Yeah, or you look down at your hands, you don't really look at each other. But you s- you sit, there's facing benches, and then there's, you know, benches here, so you are kind of all looking at e- you're facing each other.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 And what do you do?

Annie Lederman 1:00:59 You sit in silence, and then if you feel moved to speak, it's supposed to be God speaking through you, but if you just feel moved to speak at all, you just stand up and you say whatever you want.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Wow.

Annie Lederman 1:01:06 And so...

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 And you're not, you're not reading scripture or...

Annie Lederman 1:01:08 Mm-mm. I mean, some people, every once in a while, someone would do that growing up, but I went to a Quaker school too when we were...Little kids, we used to have to sit in silence for, like, 45 minutes, which was impossible. I had such bad ADD. It was insane. I would wear shirts that had, like, things on it I could play with.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 (laughs)

Annie Lederman 1:01:22 Like, I had a shirt with a phone and it had, like, a cord. And I would just wear it and I would set alarms and sit on my alarm so it wouldn't go off. I just had to be doing stuff. It was crazy. You're just so little and you're just-

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Well, people are so-

Annie Lederman 1:01:32 ... sitting there silently.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 ... bored. Little kids-

Annie Lederman 1:01:34 Insane.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 ... get so bored, you know? And what's the first thing they do? They try to medicate them because-

Annie Lederman 1:01:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 ... they hate the fact they're so bored.

Annie Lederman 1:01:40 Well, I got medicated too. We did Ritalin and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Oh, no.

Annie Lederman 1:01:44 But when I was older, it... I, I don't feel like it affected me. They put me on antidepressants a little bit, but I was pretty good at being like, "I don't wanna do these things."

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 You don't feel like it affected you to be on-

Annie Lederman 1:01:53 Well, I s-

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 ... Ritalin?

Annie Lederman 1:01:54 But I st- I didn't take it for that long.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 How long did you take it for?

Annie Lederman 1:01:57 I don't know. I don't think-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Do you know Ali?

Annie Lederman 1:01:58 ... I took it for that long.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Ali Macrovsky?

Annie Lederman 1:02:00 Duh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Duh. She was talking about it last night.

Annie Lederman 1:02:02 Fucking love her.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Love her too. She was talking-

Annie Lederman 1:02:04 The best.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 ... about how, uh, like, that same sh- shit happened to her when she was a kid.

Annie Lederman 1:02:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Just bouncing off the walls and... They medicate you.

Annie Lederman 1:02:11 Yeah. It's so... It is interesting 'cause it is... W- I can only imagine what it's like to be a parent. You're just... There's all this information coming at you and you're dealing with your own shit. And a lot of people didn't go through their healing process or anything too, so it must be so hard to be a parent. It's just gotta be crazy. I, I think about it. I never wanted to have a kid until I did some hallucinogens and then I was like, "Maybe I wanna have a kid."

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 You'd be a great mom.

Annie Lederman 1:02:34 Yeah, I think I would. But I'm just-

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 I think so, to help you-

Annie Lederman 1:02:36 ... dealing with all my-

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... heal.

Annie Lederman 1:02:38 I'm dealing with-

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 You know?

Annie Lederman 1:02:39 ... all my... I just wanna make sure I'm not in a place... I, I was very angry in the past and it's something that I work on a lot. I just wouldn't wanna redo patterns and stuff like that. But I do think because I've had, I had such traumatic stuff, I think I would be... I think I could protect my kids in a good way.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 So, the Quakers are allowed to medicate their kids? That's part of the doctrine?

Annie Lederman 1:02:56 Yeah, you can-

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 It's okay?

Annie Lederman 1:02:57 There's no do-... I mean, it's pretty loose.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 There's no- Yeah.

Annie Lederman 1:02:59 It's like, you can do whatever you want. There was one guy that wore his, like, Jewish stuff to a meeting.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Oh.

Annie Lederman 1:03:04 Uh,