Joe Rogan Experience #1335 - Jim Gaffigan

1. 0:00 – 4:00

   Amazon Prime special and the shifting standup-special landscape

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Dun-dun-dun. Ladies and gentlemen, (claps) one of the greats, Jim Gaffigan.

   2. JGJim Gaffigan0:06

      Oh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      How are you, sir?

   4. JGJim Gaffigan0:07

      Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Great to see you, man. I'm excited that you're doing a special on Amazon.

   6. JGJim Gaffigan0:12

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      I think it's important that there's a, a bunch of other platforms for all of us-

   8. JGJim Gaffigan0:16

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      ... to do specials on. And when a guy like you goes over to Amazon, legitimizes it, makes it a big deal, it's exciting.

   10. JGJim Gaffigan0:23

       Yeah, and it, it's, uh, it's fascinating how the, the outlets for specials has changed so dramatically.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Yeah.

   12. JGJim Gaffigan0:30

       'Cause when we were, when we were kids, it was just HBO.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Yep.

   14. JGJim Gaffigan0:35

       And then Comedy Central, when, uh, I released Beyond the Pale, it was, uh, that perfect moment where, uh, in every dorm room in America, Comedy Central was on.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Yep.

   16. JGJim Gaffigan0:48

       You know, it w- it had shifted from MTV to Comedy Central bec- probably 'cause of Chappelle and, and Jon Stewart. And so, but it shifts. You know, it's like, then Netflix was big, and, um, and we see these other platforms coming out. So it'll be, it'll be interesting. If I can convince people, 'cause everyone goes to Amazon.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JGJim Gaffigan1:11

       Or someone in their family does. So if I can convince them the next time they're buying paper towels-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       (laughs)

   20. JGJim Gaffigan1:16

       ... and socks-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       (laughs)

   22. JGJim Gaffigan1:17

       ... to just go over to Prime, 'cause they, everyone has a Prime membership.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       Yeah, that's a weird part about it, right? It's like-

   24. JGJim Gaffigan1:24

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       ... it's shopping, but it's also, like, the same as iTunes.

   26. JGJim Gaffigan1:28

       It, y- yeah, people have asked me, they're like, "What if, uh," you know, well, one person asked me, they were like, "What if someone doesn't have a Prime membership?" And I'm like, "Then they're-"

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Who are you?

   28. JGJim Gaffigan1:36

       "... probably not on the Internet."

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Yeah, who are you?

   30. JGJim Gaffigan1:39

       Right? They probably can't afford even, uh, you know, high-speed Internet.
2. 4:00 – 9:27

   Independent releases vs. Netflix: discoverability and the mystery of view numbers

   1. JGJim Gaffigan4:00

      Or they just, you know, some of, uh, how it was explained to me was, I released, uh, Noblesse, my special before this, uh, independently.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:13

      Right.

   3. JGJim Gaffigan4:13

      You know, through a lot of different platforms.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      Well, why'd you decide to do that?

   5. JGJim Gaffigan4:16

      Well, some of it was, I, I got an offer that was attractive. Uh, I knew that... I mean, I, I love Netflix, I have five specials there. Uh, but I kind of looked at Netflix, I always describe it as, it's a, it's a swimming pool, swimming pools are great, the, you know, a special, having a special is kind of like a floaty. But, like, Netflix, there were just hundreds of floaties in this, in this pool. So how do you know y- people are gonna watch yours? You get-

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:48

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JGJim Gaffigan4:48

      ... like a week at Netflix, uh, for, for accessibility. And I also thought that, uh, it would have a greater impact internationally. I don't think it did for me, personally. Um, and, and it was something to try differently, you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:03

      You know what's weird too, is you never really know what the numbers are.

   9. JGJim Gaffigan5:06

      No, you don't know the numbers.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:07

       They don't tell you.

   11. JGJim Gaffigan5:08

       You don't know the numbers, and it also shifts. Like, so like the, the great success that, uh, Segura and Ali Wong had, and you know, like, we're comedians. We watch all of, uh, the specials on Netflix. I mean, whether we watch the whole thing is another thing, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       Yeah.

   13. JGJim Gaffigan5:27

       That's like, uh, with Ted Alexandro and I, we're always like, I'm like, "Did you watch it?" And he goes, "I, 10 minutes. Did you watch the..."

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       (laughs)

   15. JGJim Gaffigan5:34

       It's like the best compliment is, "I watched-

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       Yeah.

   17. JGJim Gaffigan5:35

       "... the whole thing."

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:36

       Yeah.

   19. JGJim Gaffigan5:36

       "I watched Chris Rock's whole special."

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       Right.

   21. JGJim Gaffigan5:39

       You know, and, um, so I wanted to do something different. You know, I was offered, uh... And it's, it's, you know, it's a, uh, you know, it's expanding your audience. And I also understood that a lot of people consume things on demand. Like, I have young kids, so I'm just, I'm still buying on iTunes like it's 1981.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JGJim Gaffigan6:03

       You know, and people consume things on demand, I was convinced on that. And so it went...... uh, we did this kind of like everywhere but Netflix, and then there was a second window that was on Amazon Prime, and it got a real ... uh, a lot of viewers. And so that prompted Amazon to approach for this special.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       So, independently, when you released your last one, did, like, a production company come to you and say, "Hey, Jim, this is what we wanna-"

   25. JGJim Gaffigan6:34

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       "... you know?"

   27. JGJim Gaffigan6:34

       Yeah. It was Comedy Dynamics.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:36

       Oh, okay.

   29. JGJim Gaffigan6:36

       And they were like, "We're gon- we're gonna distribute it. Uh, we're gonna sell it piecemeal different places."

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       Mm-hmm.
3. 9:27 – 12:14

   The end of appointment TV and the binge-watching problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      I, I think in the future, there's not gonna be anything on live television except sports. I really do.

   2. JGJim Gaffigan9:32

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:33

      I think-

   4. JGJim Gaffigan9:33

      Definitely.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:34

      TV, like the idea of, like, tuning in at eight o'clock on Tuesday night and that's the only time to see something-

   6. JGJim Gaffigan9:39

      Oh, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:39

      ... is ridiculous.

   8. JGJim Gaffigan9:39

      No, appointment television-

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:41

      Yeah.

   10. JGJim Gaffigan9:41

       ... is absurd.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:42

       Nonsense. That's a great way of putting it.

   12. JGJim Gaffigan9:43

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       Appointment television. (laughs)

   14. JGJim Gaffigan9:44

       Yeah, it's just, it's insane.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Yeah.

   16. JGJim Gaffigan9:46

       You know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       A release date ... And that's th- one of the other great things about Netflix, like when Stranger Things comes out, you get the whole damn season.

   18. JGJim Gaffigan9:53

       Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so, like, the binging thing-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JGJim Gaffigan9:57

       ... is really ... It's absurd. Like, there's, there's gotta be some consequences of that 'cause-

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       Oh, yeah. It's unhealthy. (laughs)

   22. JGJim Gaffigan10:04

       We're just not getting enough sleep.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       Now, this ... A light friend of mine, she told me that she was up watching, uh, Stranger Things till six o'clock in the morning. She had to get up at 10:00 to take her kid to school. (laughs)

   24. JGJim Gaffigan10:16

       Yeah, it's just ... There's ... And we binge it like, like there's some reason behind it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:23

       Yeah.

   26. JGJim Gaffigan10:23

       There's ... It's just convenience.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:25

       You just get obsessed. "I wanna find out what's next. Oh my God-

   28. JGJim Gaffigan10:27

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:27

       ... they left me hanging.

   30. JGJim Gaffigan10:28

       Yeah.
4. 12:14 – 15:25

   Unexpected hits and why authenticity wins (Impractical Jokers and podcasts)

   1. JGJim Gaffigan12:14

      ... TruTV put on Impractical Jokers-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:16

      Amazing.

   3. JGJim Gaffigan12:16

      ... and those guys are selling out arenas. Amazing.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      That fucking show is so crazy popular.

   5. JGJim Gaffigan12:22

      It, it's, you know, it's fascinating watching that show because I, you know, you try and understand it because... But I think it's the authenticity of those guys.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:32

      Yeah. They're pals.

   7. JGJim Gaffigan12:33

      And it's not manufactured.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:35

      Right.

   9. JGJim Gaffigan12:36

      And, and I think people like that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       Yes. Yeah.

   11. JGJim Gaffigan12:39

       It's very appealing. You're like, you know... And I think that's also, like, real guys.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       Yeah.

   13. JGJim Gaffigan12:44

       I think there is so much beautiful people that we consume, so, so much beautiful people that we're shocked when we see a regular-looking person.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       (laughs)

   15. JGJim Gaffigan12:55

       We're like, "Wait a minute, what, what, did that person, that person must be a bad guy." I used to j- have a joke about that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       They seem like you could hang out with them too.

   17. JGJim Gaffigan13:03

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       Like, they seem like regular guys that would be fun to hang out with.

   19. JGJim Gaffigan13:05

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:06

       It's like, "Oh, I wanna be with them." (laughs)

   21. JGJim Gaffigan13:08

       No, like, when I first heard the premise, I was like, "Oh, this is..." But by the way, it's been going on for a while.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:14

       Quite a while, yeah.

   23. JGJim Gaffigan13:15

       And I was doing shows in London, and m- we have the same agent, and they were doing an arena three nights in a row.

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       (laughs)

   25. JGJim Gaffigan13:23

       In London.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:24

       That's crazy.

   27. JGJim Gaffigan13:26

       Crazy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:26

       It's amazing. Like, who the fuck saw that coming? When I heard about it from Ari, Ari Shaffir was telling me that these guys were selling out theaters, and I was like, "Really?" I'm like, "That's incredible." I go, "How big?" They went like, "5,000 people." I was like, "What?"

   29. JGJim Gaffigan13:37

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       "What?" And that was years ago. Now, it's, they've moved to arenas.
5. 15:25 – 24:43

   Media narratives, criticism, and the pressure to filter art through politics

   1. JGJim Gaffigan15:25

      Because also, like, even, generally when there are articles written about comedians, uh, you're kind of... There's always like, "All right, let's see what this half-day of research-"

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      (laughs)

   3. JGJim Gaffigan15:38

      "... how they interpret it." Do you remem- I remember in the-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:41

      Your entire body of work, right?

   5. JGJim Gaffigan15:42

      ... in the '90s there would be like, New York Magazine would be like, "The end of standup comedy."

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:46

      Yes. (laughs)

   7. JGJim Gaffigan15:47

      And you'd read the article and you're like, "Well, I guess, oh, they followed that person. They don't even really even do standup."

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:53

      Yeah.

   9. JGJim Gaffigan15:53

      Um, so it is, there is no point behind it, but I'm just kind of a sucker for trying to understand where the zeitgeist is trying to steer things. But in the end, I think comedy, you know, Seinfeld describes it as like, it all comes down to butts in seats.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JGJim Gaffigan16:11

       Butts in seats. Like, they can kind of promote, uh, you know, like the new best thing, but, you know, those people, uh, show up to shows. They, you know, they're not told where to go.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       Y- I think what's also important to note is that the narrative's no longer being controlled by media. Like, you, you can't... An article in Newsweek or, uh, uh, on a website or an, uh, uh, some YouTube piece, it doesn't define things anymore.

   13. JGJim Gaffigan16:39

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       The, the landscape is too big. Not, no media outlet has any sort of monopoly on how to define someone or something. The, the people decide now. It's really a meritocracy in that way.

   15. JGJim Gaffigan16:52

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       That if you, if you have something that's good, people find out about it and they like it. And you can write all your hit pieces that you want, they don't work anymore.

   17. JGJim Gaffigan17:01

       No.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       It doesn't work.

   19. JGJim Gaffigan17:02

       But-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       You know, you'll, you'll change a few people's minds, 'cause they'll buy into it, but then if they investigate themselves, they'll feel, "Oh, you're a piece-of-shit journalist. This is a terrible article about something."

   21. JGJim Gaffigan17:11

       It's... You know, it... But I sometimes think, well, like, I have two theories on this. O- one, I sometimes think, "Was it always like this and I didn't see it?" Or here's my other theory. My other theory is that in the collapse of traditional media, meaning the collapse of newspapers and, and just, uh, you know, television news bureaus, that there, because there's no money to pay, uh, someone to be, say like, a, a movie review. My wa- my, uh, father-in-law is, he used to write movie reviews f- in Milwaukee, and he would review the movies, and that was his job. And that job is really only present in, in very rare situations. Otherwise, it's just the opportunity of someone that does it out of a passion thing, meaning someone who has a blog, or it's someone who is, doesn't need a financial incentive. So, in other words, they're like, "You got 50 bucks to write a review of this thing." Or, so it ends up not being...... close to objective. Does that make sense?

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:23

       Hmm. Yeah, no, it does. And I, I think if you're gonna really study something, like if you, if you want to know about a person, you know, say if it, it's a politician or, you know, an actor or comic or whoever you're writing about, the idea that you're gonna figure them out with just a, a few hours of Google searching is kind of crazy. Like-

   23. JGJim Gaffigan18:43

       It's absolutely crazy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       I mean, and, and the, the rush is to define someone in either very flattering or very unflattering ways. The, the-

   25. JGJim Gaffigan18:52

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:53

       ... this, that's really where most of the energy goes.

   27. JGJim Gaffigan18:57

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:57

       Most of the stories are either hit pieces or they're fluff pieces that seem to be propped up by a publicist.

   29. JGJim Gaffigan19:04

       Yeah, there is ... I, I feel as though ... Like, I did this movie that came out, um ... It was just a small indie comedy where I was a guy, uh, w- who had two separate families and they didn't know about each other. So it's like, he's a good guy. No, but he had two families. And it's a comedy. It's set in the '90s and y- you know, the, the reviews that didn't like the movie, that didn't surprise me, you know? Or the criticisms. But like, a lot of the reviews were kind of, um ... There was a tone of like, "How dare this white male (laughs) have two fam-" Like, they couldn't get beyond ... Like, it wasn't ... Like, they would insert like, a, a social commentary-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:54

       Mm-hmm.
6. 24:43 – 26:45

   Comedy as a ‘vacation’ from politics—and how humans stay confidently wrong

   1. JGJim Gaffigan24:43

      Well, you know, there- there's- there's also this, too, is that, you know, I'm- I tend to lean left. I'm pretty, uh, liberal socially. And, um, but, uh, and, you know, when Trump was elected and, like, there was the Women's March and all this stuff, there was this- I had this thought process of, like, "How do I- how do I, you know, cont- how can I contribute? How can I help make this country better?" Which is- sounds grandiose, which it is. But the thing is, is like, I'm not changing anyone's mind.

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JGJim Gaffigan25:20

      I really believe that. It's like- and if anything, I think at my shows, it's like people are kind of like, "Huh, a break from it."

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:29

      Yes. Yes.

   5. JGJim Gaffigan25:29

      Do you know what I mean? Like, it's- we're all thinking about it-

   6. JRJoe Rogan25:32

      Yeah.

   7. JGJim Gaffigan25:32

      ... all the time. We're like, "All right, there's a- a tariff, uh, a Chinese tariff! What does that mean? I don't know what that means! Is that- are American farmers destroyed? What- what's going on?" But, like, when they come to my show, they don't want me to rehash it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:46

      Yes. Yeah, no, I think that's one of the keys to your success, is that you provide a vacation.

   9. JGJim Gaffigan25:51

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:51

       A fun, silly, well thought out, comedically brilliant sort of vacation from the nonsense of the day.

   11. JGJim Gaffigan25:58

       But also pointing out that humans are- we're absurd.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:02

       Yes.

   13. JGJim Gaffigan26:02

       We're stupid.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:02

       Yes. Yeah. Sure.

   15. JGJim Gaffigan26:03

       We are so stupid. Like, we just think- humans think we have it- every generation, we think we have it figured out.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:09

       Yeah.

   17. JGJim Gaffigan26:10

       That's, uh, like the- the- the suredness of people makes me concerned.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:16

       (laughs) It should, right?

   19. JGJim Gaffigan26:16

       Like, you know, there were people at a time that were like, "Here's how we serve the- how- here- how we solve the flu is we're gonna put these leeches on people. Trust me, it's working." Like, they- they were convinced that would work.

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:28

       Yeah. Yeah, it makes you wonder, like, what- how we're gonna view this generation 100 years from now or 200 years from now.

   21. JGJim Gaffigan26:35

       Oh, it's gonna be fas-

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:36

       (laughs)

   23. JGJim Gaffigan26:36

       I mean, I've got a- I've got a 15-year-old-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:39

       Ugh.

   25. JGJim Gaffigan26:39

       ... who, uh, is so, uh- my children are- they're so fascinating. But-

7. 26:45 – 32:12

   Raising five kids in New York and navigating comedy-club dynamics

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:45

      And you live in New York City still.

   2. JGJim Gaffigan26:47

      I live in New York City.

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:48

      Yeah.

   4. JGJim Gaffigan26:48

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:48

      Which is cra- I- I- I always- we talked about this a long time ago.

   6. JGJim Gaffigan26:51

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:51

      That that's a wild place to raise kids.

   8. JGJim Gaffigan26:53

      I- is it?

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:54

      I don't know. You tell me.

   10. JGJim Gaffigan26:56

       I don't ... I feel like there is, um, there is socioeconomic, uh, cultural more diversity my kids walking to a subway station-

   11. JRJoe Rogan27:10

       Sure.

   12. JGJim Gaffigan27:10

       ... than if we lived in the suburbs.

   13. JRJoe Rogan27:12

       For sure, yeah.

   14. JGJim Gaffigan27:13

       Um, and, uh, yeah, you know, it's- you know, they don't have a yard, but, like, I'm kind of like, I don't know, it seems like people that have yards, they're, like, paranoid about their kids getting snatched anyway. So, uh, but, I don't know, it's what- I also- you know, I feel like there's a lot of convenience in New York that I like. And I also, to be perfectly honest, it's like, in LA, I feel like I feel kind of smothered by the entertainment industry.

   15. JRJoe Rogan27:43

       Hm.

   16. JGJim Gaffigan27:44

       And- and maybe it's, uh, my insecurity, but it's like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:47

       No, I think you're right.

   18. JGJim Gaffigan27:47

       ... there's like- y- you drive down the street, there's all these billboards, and- and each of those billboards is saying, "You're a failure!"

   19. JRJoe Rogan27:54

       (laughs)

   20. JGJim Gaffigan27:54

       "Look at this person! This person- this is their fifth show where they're gonna get an Emmy nomination, and people don't even know your name!"

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       Yeah.

   22. JGJim Gaffigan28:03

       You know? So it's- I mean, obviously, just fate had it where I stayed in New York, 'cause there's plenty of reasons to live in LA.

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:10

       Well, first and foremost, you're a comic. You're always-

   24. JGJim Gaffigan28:12

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:12

       ... recognized as a comic, but you do a lot of other things as well. But, like, being- y- you do a lot of other movies and television shows and stuff. But being in New York City, I think you- in- in some ways, you get the b- best of both worlds.

   26. JGJim Gaffigan28:25

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:25

       Because you get many clubs to perform in-

   28. JGJim Gaffigan28:27

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan28:28

       ... many clubs to practice in, but you also don't get that sort of scrutiny of the- the agents and the managers in the entertainment industry, so you can work on your shit. And then, on top of that, you're not surrounded by the business.

   30. JGJim Gaffigan28:41

       Yeah.
8. 32:12 – 35:48

   The Comedy Store comeback: management, culture, and the perfect rooms

   1. JGJim Gaffigan32:12

      It's amazing the transformation The Comedy Store has gone through.

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:19

      Yeah.

   3. JGJim Gaffigan32:20

      Like, it is the ... I would say it's probably one of the most important clubs in the country, beyond a doubt. Maybe ... I'm thinking it's, like, up there, right? As, like, the surefire thing if you're an audience member. You go to The Store, you're gonna see a great show. But, like, 15 years ago, I don't know if that was the case.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:39

      No. No, it wasn't the case in 2008.

   5. JGJim Gaffigan32:44

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:44

      Yeah, it was, it was pretty bad for a while.

   7. JGJim Gaffigan32:45

      And who is, who is responsible? 'Cause that i- that comes down to management.

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:50

      That has a lot to do with it. It also ... The internet, a lot of us, uh, talking about how great The Comedy Store is.

   9. JGJim Gaffigan32:54

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       Also, getting rid of the old management, firing them.

   11. JGJim Gaffigan32:57

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:58

       They found the old guy, uh, was running the place, was stealing money, and they fired him.

   13. JGJim Gaffigan33:02

       (laughs) There's ... Comedy St-

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       He was a piece of shit anyway. He was just running it poorly.

   15. JGJim Gaffigan33:03

       There's so many stories where it's like, "And then it was revealed they were stealing."

   16. JRJoe Rogan33:08

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JGJim Gaffigan33:08

       And you're like, "What?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:09

       Yeah. Yeah, they, they, they did a sting operation and caught him stealing money.

   19. JGJim Gaffigan33:13

       Oh.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:13

       Yeah, he was a bad guy, but just running the place poorly too.

   21. JGJim Gaffigan33:16

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:17

       And he was the reason why I wasn't there for seven years.

   23. JGJim Gaffigan33:19

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:19

       Yeah, so-

   25. JGJim Gaffigan33:20

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:20

       I came back, and, you know, b- b- all the talking about The Store with comics on podcasts too-

   27. JGJim Gaffigan33:26

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:26

       ... got people so excited about it, and then you'd look at the lineup. Like, on a Tuesday night, it's just a murderer's row.

   29. JGJim Gaffigan33:31

       And also, those rooms are great. The layout of the rooms-

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:35

       Mm-hmm.
9. 35:48 – 37:22

   Talk shows vs. long-form: why podcasts reveal the real person

   1. JGJim Gaffigan35:48

      When did you decide to not ... 'Cause you used to do those shows.

   2. JRJoe Rogan35:52

      Yeah.

   3. JGJim Gaffigan35:53

      Was there a ... Was i- it's a time management thing?

   4. JRJoe Rogan35:56

      It's a time management thing, and it's also I don't believe that they have a good format. I think that format is nonsense. I think the format of waiting for commercials and the audience, being right there and playing to the audience, it's not, it's not an effective way to have a conversation. It's definitely not an effective way to express ideas that are complicated. You wanna be able to, like, f- air them out in a long form way. (clears throat) And you can't do that on those shows. You just can't. It's, it's in, it's out, and if anything weird or controversial comes up, you stick your foot in your mouth, you never have a chance to take it out. Nobody really gets a chance to see how your mind really works. Like, what, what are you thinking? What, what, uh, w- where is your head at? How do you come to these conclusions? What's your thought process? Who are you as a person? Are you a good person? Are you trying to do good?

   5. JGJim Gaffigan36:41

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan36:41

      Are you flawed? Are you ... What, what, uh, what are you?

   7. JGJim Gaffigan36:44

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan36:44

      And you find that out in a long form conversation, so like ... (clears throat) ... when I had Bernie Sanders on, one of the things that people said was most interesting is like, "This guy's not a cartoon. He's a really nice guy. I see him on these shows and he seems like this fucking cartoonish character-"

   9. JGJim Gaffigan36:57

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan36:57

       "... but now you see him here in this long form conversation where there's no interruptions at all. He just has a chance to think and talk and express himself." And you go, "Oh, now I know the real Bernie because I never knew him in these goddamn debates when he's screaming for 12 seconds-

   11. JGJim Gaffigan37:13

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan37:13

       ... about healthcare, about taxes, or about whatever it is."

   13. JGJim Gaffigan37:17

       Yeah. I, it's fascinating. Like, uh, right, here, let me a- let me ask you this.

   14. JRJoe Rogan37:22

       Okay.

   15. JGJim Gaffigan37:22

       'Cause-

10. 37:22 – 40:23

    Nicotine gum, appetite, testosterone talk, and the unglamorous work of improvement

    1. JRJoe Rogan37:22

       Nicky says, um, "Give me one of them." So let me try those out.

    2. JGJim Gaffigan37:24

       Oh, they're beautiful.

    3. NANarrator37:25

       (laughs)

    4. JGJim Gaffigan37:25

       They're delicious.

    5. JRJoe Rogan37:26

       Is it good?

    6. JGJim Gaffigan37:26

       I go original flavor.

    7. JRJoe Rogan37:27

       And you used to, used to do the chew, right?

    8. JGJim Gaffigan37:29

       I used to dip-

    9. JRJoe Rogan37:30

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JGJim Gaffigan37:30

        ... and then I used to smoke cigarettes. Like, there's... My wife has, uh-

    11. JRJoe Rogan37:34

        Thank you.

    12. JGJim Gaffigan37:35

        ... uh, videos, like, you know, we have all these old videos of us doing standup.

    13. JRJoe Rogan37:40

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JGJim Gaffigan37:40

        And she was transferring them to, like, DVDs at the time. Now we're gonna have to get them off the DVD. And she would find these videos of me doing standup smoking on stage.

    15. JRJoe Rogan37:51

        Whoa, back in the day, son.

    16. JGJim Gaffigan37:53

        And she was like, "What are you doing?"

    17. NANarrator37:55

        (laughs)

    18. JGJim Gaffigan37:56

        And I'm like, "Yeah, I used to smoke." I used to... You know, I had yellow fingers. (chewing) I was chain smoking.

    19. JRJoe Rogan38:01

        I smoked cigarettes before I go on stage, even recently. I smoked one of Chappelle's cigarettes, uh, last weekend. It gives you-

    20. JGJim Gaffigan38:06

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan38:06

        ... a crazy head rush. Before you go on stage, I like it. (chewing)

    22. JGJim Gaffigan38:11

        It's-

    23. JRJoe Rogan38:11

        When I wanna smoke cigarettes... Sorry for the smacking in the-

    24. JGJim Gaffigan38:14

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan38:14

        ... microphone, folks. It's a terrible thing to smoke cigarettes, but there's a weird rush that you get from, from the nicotine.

    26. JGJim Gaffigan38:21

        Oh, yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan38:21

        It's like a, it's a head rush. It's like you feel good.

    28. JGJim Gaffigan38:24

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan38:25

        It-

    30. JGJim Gaffigan38:25

        Yeah.
11. 40:23 – 46:10

    How comedians write and test material: notes, recordings, and the road’s feedback loop

    1. NANarrator40:23

       (laughs)

    2. JGJim Gaffigan40:23

       No, I'm so focused on... I, I sometimes listen to my set while I work out. It's like, when you work out, you have to focus on working out.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:30

       Yeah, but that's a good thing to do. I do that when I'm on the elliptical sometimes.

    4. JGJim Gaffigan40:33

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:34

       I listen to, listen to comedy. I think listening to sets is, uh, one thing that not enough comics do. They record their sets, but they don't listen to them because it's gross and you feel-

    6. JGJim Gaffigan40:43

       Oh, it's-

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:43

       ... it's annoying, you don't wanna hear it.

    8. JGJim Gaffigan40:45

       Yeah, yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan40:45

       But it's way, the way you learn.

    10. JGJim Gaffigan40:46

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan40:46

        And I feel like, I mean, cr- I don't know, I would like to know y- how you feel about this, but-

    12. JGJim Gaffigan40:51

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:51

        ... I feel like the amount of time that you spend concentrating on your material has a direct result in how good it is and how good it gets quick, especially when you're producing specials so you abandon-

    14. JGJim Gaffigan41:00

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan41:01

        ... all your material-

    16. JGJim Gaffigan41:01

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:01

        ... and then you have to write new stuff. For me, the process is greatly accelerated by physically writing. Physically writing is very important.

    18. JGJim Gaffigan41:07

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan41:08

        I devote a lot of time to sit in front of a computer, staring at it, smoking pot, writing things out-

    20. JGJim Gaffigan41:12

        Right.

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:12

        ... looking at notes, writing things out.

    22. JGJim Gaffigan41:14

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:14

        Performing, those are critical, but also listening. Listening to those recordings and then writing notes on the recordings.

    24. JGJim Gaffigan41:21

        Yeah. For me-

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:22

        It's work.

    26. JGJim Gaffigan41:22

        ... the process is... It shifts all the time, right? So there's sometimes you just give birth to a chunk. You go bler, it just comes out.

    27. JRJoe Rogan41:31

        Yes.

    28. JGJim Gaffigan41:32

        And you're like, "Oh my gosh, thank God."

    29. JRJoe Rogan41:34

        Yeah.

    30. JGJim Gaffigan41:34

        And sometimes it's just like you're chiseling away at granite and it's just bit by bit underneath. But for me, it's doing these longer sets, like doing an hour in 10 minutes. I will... And it's a shift from before. It used to be like I needed the sits, uh, sets in the city to like, uh, build piece by piece, but now I'm kind of... I'll talk about like something that happened, uh, when I was a kid, and then I'll polish it over a long period. 'Cause in an hour show, it's, you know, I believe you have to do A material every time you do a theater, and it has to be new because you want people leaving going, "I'm coming back when it comes back here."
12. 46:10 – 55:34

    Political fatigue, WWII reminders, and how quickly societies can turn

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       ... in all these different places. So I think, like, we've... I've been talking a lot with comics lately about, like, "What was your reaction to Trump winning the election?" Comics saw it coming more than-

    2. JGJim Gaffigan46:21

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       ... most people who live in LA, 'cause most people who live in LA are very liberal-

    4. JGJim Gaffigan46:25

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       ... very left-wing, convinced that, you know, this is... Even it did- didn't matter who you voted for, Hillary was gonna win California no matter what.

    6. JGJim Gaffigan46:31

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       Like, we were... Th- this was a pro-

    8. JGJim Gaffigan46:34

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       ... Democrat state, and when Trump won, I, I ran into people that were shell-shocked. They couldn't-

    10. JGJim Gaffigan46:40

        (laughs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:40

        ... fucking imagine.

    12. JGJim Gaffigan46:42

        I mean, I think, uh, I mean, I was surprised.

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:44

        Were you, man?

    14. JGJim Gaffigan46:44

        I was def- I was definitely surprised. But that being said, I wasn't surprised by, um, the, uh, the logic behind some of the people that voted for Trump last time that are sheepish to admit it now.

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:02

        Yes.

    16. JGJim Gaffigan47:03

        Um, I understood some of that logic, but I thought it was fascinating 'cause there was a time for me... 'Cause I tour with, uh, Ted Alexander a lot, and he's like an o-

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:13

        I love Ted.

    18. JGJim Gaffigan47:14

        He's like, he's like an Occupy Wall Street guy. Like, he's, like, uh, very, uh, progressive. And we would tour, and he would have... During the election, he would have some material on Hillary and some material on Trump, and it worked everywhere. It worked in Texas, worked in Tennessee, which I think is the most conservative place-

    19. JRJoe Rogan47:32

        Tennessee.

    20. JGJim Gaffigan47:33

        ... outside of Nashville. And, and so it would work everywhere. And then the election happened, and that same material... And it wasn't just the context of the, uh, post-election. It was... I c- I describe it as people looking at the ceiling, is that people didn't wanna hear it. An- and I think some of it is people were like, "We deal with this all day. We need a break from it." But it was both sides.

    21. JRJoe Rogan48:00

        Yeah.

    22. JGJim Gaffigan48:01

        So, like, Trump voters were more emboldened, kind of like, "That's right!"

    23. JRJoe Rogan48:05

        (laughs)

    24. JGJim Gaffigan48:05

        And then also the left, people were like, "Please."

    25. JRJoe Rogan48:09

        (laughs)

    26. JGJim Gaffigan48:09

        "Can I... I just wanna hear Jim talk about horses for 10 minutes." Do you know what I mean?

    27. JRJoe Rogan48:14

        Yeah.

    28. JGJim Gaffigan48:15

        And so there is something fascinating that occurs, and there's also something fascinating about international shows because when Bush was, when W was president, there were much more people coming up to me, going, "How dare he s- you know, start the Iraq War?" And with, uh, with Trump, they're like, "Yeah, you probably didn't have th- anything to do with that."

    29. JRJoe Rogan48:37

        (laughs)

    30. JGJim Gaffigan48:37

        Yeah, I would say that's-
13. 55:34 – 1:05:11

    Free speech, cancel culture, and ‘true believer’ politics inside entertainment

    1. JGJim Gaffigan55:34

       You know what I think is ... An- and I think this is also a reflection of the success of comedians' podcasts, is that w- what people don't realize is that comedians really appreciate a different point of view. We actually, uh, like f- we have friends that, like, we don't agree with. In fact, we almost find it entertaining. Like, "Let's talk to this friend because I know I disagree with him." And we can have that banter, and I think that particularly in this, uh, cancel culture, there is ... And so, like, you get these comedians, like you, hosting these podcasts, having these discussions, and, and comedians have kinda like the, uh, boldness to step in it and say, "Hey, I don't know about that. Tell me about that." Whereas, like s- from a societal basis, there's like, "Don't question. Don't question, uh, why w- we're pursuing this, because if you question it, that means you're not a true believer, and we're-"

    2. JRJoe Rogan56:36

       Yeah.

    3. JGJim Gaffigan56:36

       "... looking for true believers." Whereas ... And by the wa- it's, it's just interesting because, uh, I think ... You know, I have a friend, Tom Shillue, who I love, who's, who has a show on, uh, on Fox, uh, Nation. And it is weird, 'cause like six years ago, and I did this interview and I talked about it, and, and I could see the interviewer go, "Y- you're friends with someone that works at Fox?" And I'm like, "Yeah." You know? It's like, it's okay.

    4. JRJoe Rogan57:08

       Yeah.

    5. JGJim Gaffigan57:08

       It's okay. He's not a monster.

    6. JRJoe Rogan57:10

       Yeah.

    7. JGJim Gaffigan57:11

       He's not killing, you know, he's not putting children in cages. He's-

    8. JRJoe Rogan57:15

       I'm good friends with Steve Hilton. He has a show on Fox. He interviewed Trump. Uh, my family and his family-

    9. JGJim Gaffigan57:21

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan57:21

        ... go on vacations together. Nice guy.

    11. JGJim Gaffigan57:23

        And it's like, why ... Like, uh, it's, it's, it's this strange thing where I'm like, I can understand how important these beliefs are, and I can understand how threatening, um, democracy is, and I can understand how we have to face our history and, and all these things. But it's like, the discourse has to remain-

    12. JRJoe Rogan57:49

        Yes.

    13. JGJim Gaffigan57:49

        ... doesn't it?

    14. JRJoe Rogan57:50

        Yes. We have to be able to talk to each other, and I think that's one of the things that kinda died with the Trump election. People were like, "You're with us or against us." You're either for him or y- or you're f- for the future and compassion and, and, and-

    15. JGJim Gaffigan58:02

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan58:03

        ... caring about everyone, or you're a monster. And there's no, there's no discussion about finances, or the best way to run the economy-

    17. JGJim Gaffigan58:13

        Yeah, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan58:13

        ... or international trade. No, no, no, no, no. You're, you're with the good or the bad. (banging on desk) You're binary. It's one or zero. You're black or white. You're one or zero.

    19. JGJim Gaffigan58:21

        And it, that is the same thing that they criticized about W-

    20. JRJoe Rogan58:25

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JGJim Gaffigan58:26

        ... saying, "You're either with us or against us."

    22. JRJoe Rogan58:28

        Yeah.

    23. JGJim Gaffigan58:28

        Which, by the way, being a father of daughters, you know is also a line from Beauty and the Beast.

    24. JRJoe Rogan58:34

        Yeah. (laughs)

    25. JGJim Gaffigan58:36

        Right? (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan58:36

        Yeah, but it is, it's-

    27. JGJim Gaffigan58:38

        (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan58:38

        ... tr- and appropriately so, right? It's like very childlike. Like that, that perspective is very childlike. There's a lotta people that are conservative that are very good people.

    29. JGJim Gaffigan58:46

        Absolutely.

    30. JRJoe Rogan58:47

        Yeah.
14. 1:05:11 – 1:18:46

    Elk hunting, wild game ethics, and the ‘difficult pursuits’ worldview

    1. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:11

       What does elk meat taste like?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:13

       You want some?

    3. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:13

       Not really.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:14

       I wish, I wish he were around here. I'd give you some.

    5. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:15

       (laughs)

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:15

       Not really? You don't care?

    7. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:16

       I mean, I would-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:17

       If I had a kitchen here, if I had a kitchen here-

    9. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:18

       Is it-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:18

        ... and I cooked some, would you eat some?

    11. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:20

        I'm sup- We're at this compound. You, you have this huge place. You got a horse track in the back. You don't have a kitchen here?

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:26

        I'm going to e- open up a kitchen here. Seriously.

    13. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:28

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:28

        I'm actually, I'm gonna, I'm thinking about putting together a restaurant.

    15. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:32

        So the-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

        And having friends come over and eat here.

    17. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:32

        ... elk thing, what makes ... Maybe you've talked about this and I haven't heard the episode. But elk meat, is that good? Or it's just-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:39

        Fantastic. Yeah, it's a wild animal. It's wild. It's wi-

    19. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:42

        But does it taste like deer?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:44

        It tastes better than deer.

    21. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:46

        You don't like veni- Well, venison-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:46

        'Cause it-

    23. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:46

        ... you're like, "Oh, this is good," you know, if I have really strong mustard and I'm not hungry.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:51

        No, man. It's just prepared poorly.

    25. JGJim Gaffigan1:05:53

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:53

        Venison's delicious. It's, it's, all of it is how the meat is taken care of after the animal dies, whether it's cooled quickly, and how it's processed. That's all it is, how it, how it's cleaned, how it's cut up, how it's vacuum-sealed and frozen, uh, almost immediately after the animal dies, how you don't let in the glands. Like, they have tarsal glands that they can get ... They, they have hormones. Like, a lot of times-

    27. JGJim Gaffigan1:06:13

        Right.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:13

        ... when you're shooting these animals, it's during the rut. So they're, they're breeding, and this is when-

    29. JGJim Gaffigan1:06:18

        Oh.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:18

        ... this is when they have-

Episode duration: 1:43:57