Joe Rogan Experience #1337 - Dan Crenshaw

1. 0:00 – 5:57

   Desk coins, SEAL symbolism, and how Crenshaw got “SNL famous”

   1. DCDan Crenshaw0:00

      Yeah. Trident there.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      Yeah, this one is from, uh, Goggins. David Goggins gave me this one.

   3. DCDan Crenshaw0:08

      That's his coin?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Yeah, he's got his own coin.

   5. DCDan Crenshaw0:10

      Okay, so he's got-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      You need a Dan Crenshaw coin, bro.

   7. DCDan Crenshaw0:12

      I do. This is kind of a big coin.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      It's a fat one. It's not one you can really carry in your pocket.

   9. DCDan Crenshaw0:17

      No, no.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       So it stays on the desk.

   11. DCDan Crenshaw0:18

       He's, he's really trying to outdo everybody else's-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       (laughs) That's David-

   13. DCDan Crenshaw0:21

       ... coin.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       That's David Goggins. (laughs)

   15. DCDan Crenshaw0:24

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       (laughs) The uncommon amongst uncommon men, even with your fucking coins. (laughs)

   17. DCDan Crenshaw0:28

       Oh, dude. Jesus.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       So what's-

   19. DCDan Crenshaw0:30

       That coin, that coin's not gonna be that big. I'm still working on it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Are you gonna get a coin for real?

   21. DCDan Crenshaw0:34

       W- we are, yeah. We-

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Yeah.

   23. DCDan Crenshaw0:34

       ... we're way behind the power curve on this. We need one. It's all about, you know, you gotta get the right symbology in there. You got the right amount of Texas, right amount of SEAL, the right amount of Congress.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah.

   25. DCDan Crenshaw0:43

       It's all, you know, pack that into the right symbology, so...

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Yeah. Test different ingredients.

   27. DCDan Crenshaw0:48

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Try it over and over again-

   29. DCDan Crenshaw0:49

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       ... till you get the bacon right.
2. 5:57 – 8:10

   Why long-form podcasts change politics (and why talking points fail)

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:57

      What was great about it, though, is that you came back after that, and he apologized to you, and you accepted it graciously. But it also got ... I mean, it was great for you because it got people to know who you are. And then, I started paying attention to you after that. I started watching some interviews and watching some speeches and s- different things. And I found you to be a very reasonable right-wing guy, which I think we need way more of in this world. You know, it's like in this polarization of left versus right, it just seems... It's so toxic right now, that when you can find people that are reasonable and intelligent and- and think along logical lines that you could easily follow and go-

   2. DCDan Crenshaw6:36

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:36

      ... "Oh, okay, maybe I agree or disagree with this guy, but I see where he's coming from."

   4. DCDan Crenshaw6:41

      Yeah. And you're... What you're getting at is a- a problem in politics is- is politicians and political leaders, I think, f- forgot to explain why we believe what we believe.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:49

      Yes.

   6. DCDan Crenshaw6:50

      And that's pretty important. Um, you know, we'll... I think too often talking points are relied upon. And it's not that those talking points are false necessarily, but they're not persuasive because you haven't gone a couple layers deep. A- again, I think you talk about this a lot. Why are podcasts so popular? They're popular because people want to hear a little bit more information. They want to get a deeper understanding of why you think what you think. People are ready to hear that. They're ready for some nuance. Um, that being said, it... B- being in politics, you wouldn't think... (laughs) you wouldn't think that we're getting any closer to nuanced conversations. And-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:25

      Well, I think political conversations on podcasts are opening up a whole new door where you understand people like Tulsi Gabbard or Andrew Yang or-

   8. DCDan Crenshaw7:33

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:33

      ... Bernie Sanders or the people that I've had... I've had on this podcast. One of the things that I've talked to people about, they said, "I didn't know that Bernie was, like, a normal person." You hear him talk and y- you know, it's a- always in these very quick sound bites on television. You know, he's always yelling about wealth or race or something. He just looks like a madman.

   10. DCDan Crenshaw7:51

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:51

       But then you sit down and talk to him for... in a long-form conversation, you let him expand on his thoughts, you go, "Oh, he's a reasonable guy." He just has... Th- these are his principles. These are- these are his ideas, and he's not a cartoon.

   12. DCDan Crenshaw8:02

       Yeah. I mean, on a personal level, most people in Congress are not exactly who you think they are. They- they are just people.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:09

       Yeah.

   14. DCDan Crenshaw8:09

       They make jokes and we- and we-

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:10

       Of course.

3. 8:10 – 16:56

   Troops overseas, Tulsi Gabbard disagreements, and the “bring them home” debate

   1. DCDan Crenshaw8:10

      We- we make small talk in the elevator. You know, these- these things happen. Um, Bernie, in particular. He's on the Senate side. I don't really interact with him at all. Uh, Tulsi Gabbard, I do. You mentioned her.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DCDan Crenshaw8:22

      Um, you know, we- we- we do... We- we do have good conversations. Uh, that- that does happen. We disagree vigorously on- on lots of things.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:29

      What do you guys disagree on?

   5. DCDan Crenshaw8:31

      Uh, Tulsi in particular?

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:32

      Sure.

   7. DCDan Crenshaw8:33

      Uh, well, most things, I would say. Uh, one- one thing she's quite outspoken about is, um... is our involvement overseas. Uh, she's... She would generally s-... She's- she's much more of an isolationist than I am. What I remind people when we're talking about that particular subject, why- why do we keep troops in Syria? Why do we keep troops in- in Iraq? Why do we keep troops in Afghanistan? Isn't the war over? Um, why don't we bring the boys back home? And the- the answer is, this is not a conventional war. This is not something where you sign a peace treaty with a uniformed, uh, army. It is... It is a different... It's a different situation. We send guys like me over there so that they don't come here. We send guys like me over there so that we keep pressure on them and- and prevent them from having the operational space and timing to commit another 9/11. You have to understand that these people over there wake up every single day trying to plan another 9/11. It is- it is- it is what they do. And, uh, we've already seen, uh, an increase in- in ISIS activity just from the drawdown that we already did have in Syria. So, you know, that's a... That's a fair disagreement, again, but she's a really cool person and I wanted... I- I brought up Tulsi just specifically because we do talk and- and I- and I- and I- and I just like her as a person. We just disagree on things, but there's a respect there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:47

      To play devil's advocate, some would say that the reason why they want to plat- plot another 9/11 is because we're over there.

   9. DCDan Crenshaw9:53

      Yeah. I disagree with that. So let's- let's look at the Osama bin Laden, um, example. What exactly did we do to this guy? You know? (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:01

       Well, we helped him, right?

   11. DCDan Crenshaw10:02

       Yeah, exactly.

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       Back when he was fighting against-

   13. DCDan Crenshaw10:03

       So when the Ni-

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       ... the Soviets, with the Mujahideen.

   15. DCDan Crenshaw10:05

       Exactly. In the... He- he was a Mujahideen fighter. We helped him fight the Soviets. We protected Saudi Arabia from invasion from Saddam Hussein. That's his homeland. And yet he hated us. And when we left, we never occupied Saudi Arabia. We left when they asked us to leave after we defended them, um, and prevented another invasion from Saddam Hussein after he invaded Kuwait. What is it we did to make this guy so mad? And the answer is, we didn't do anything, objectively speaking. He hates us because of our Western ideology. He hates us because he hates us. And... And- and that's hard for us to understand because it's not logical, uh, but it is the truth. And, um, it's- it's... You know, so th- that's the... and it's a prime example of- of why we... this- this- this is a long-term fight. And it's, um... it- it's not likely to go away anytime soon. And the last thing I would say, the world is a very small place. We can... W- when we pretend that we... to ignore things going on in the Middle East, we can pretend that they won't come here, but the reality is, that's a 12-hour flight. And- and- and- and the speed of information travels even faster. You know, when we were seeing a lot of attacks in the US and in Europe when ISIS was at its peak, as its... uh, uh, uh, at its peak strength, that was because they were able to radicalize online. Notice that they've stopped having that power, and it's because we actually took the fight to them.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       Well, there- there certainly are some conflicts between their ideology and Western ideology, but why... and Western values, but why is it that they're dedicating their entire life to try to take down America?

   17. DCDan Crenshaw11:37

       Well, th- I mean, there's this-

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:39

       Because this is always the question for us-

   19. DCDan Crenshaw11:40

       It is a question and it's-

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:41

       ... as civilians.

   21. DCDan Crenshaw11:41

       And it's... And it's, you know, (laughs) you almost have to ask them exactly why. Right? But I mean, uh, at its core, we are infidels. At- at its core, there's... they- they're- they're taking an extreme view of- of Islamic fundamentalism and believing that we are infidels that must be destroyed. I mean, that's at its core. Uh, they're- they're... It's- it's less political reasons and a little bit more emotional reasoning. Um-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:00

       There has to be some- some part of it because of our policies and some part of it because of our actions and-

   23. DCDan Crenshaw12:06

       I- I don't know. I'm not so sure that we should always assume that it's our fault. And- and- and I think that's a common, uh-... that's a common theme, uh, in, in politics these days, where anything bad happening must be America's fault, it must be decisions we made. I mean, maybe. But let's objectively make the case if that, if that's, if that's true, I think there's an automatic assumption. And I, and it's not self-evident to me.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:27

       But if we're in ... What are we in? 100. And how many countries do we have bases in? What's the number? Do you know?

   25. DCDan Crenshaw12:33

       It's a lot. It might ... It's, it's definitely over 100.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       Yeah. And if you were one of the people that is in one of those countries-

   27. DCDan Crenshaw12:40

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:40

       ... and you had to deal with that, and you saw, like, the drone attacks in Yemen that have killed people, and wedding parties, and the, the kind of shit that we hope never happens again, but has happened in the past-

   29. DCDan Crenshaw12:50

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       ... you can kinda understand-
4. 16:56 – 20:25

   Civic humility, social media dunking, and competition as cultural medicine

   1. DCDan Crenshaw16:56

      You can apply ... And you can imply that to not just our foreign policy, it's every issue.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:00

      Yes.

   3. DCDan Crenshaw17:00

      You know, why are things the way they are? It's, it's a really good question to ask. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:03

      Yeah.

   5. DCDan Crenshaw17:04

      When we're trying to find the solutions for the things we don't like, the first question we should ask is, "Why are things the way they are?" And that question really gets manipulated, uh, again, on any issue. And, um, it, it is unfortunate. How do we fix that? I don't know. My, my message wh- when, like, high school kids are asking me how do they get involved in politics, and what I tell them is, "It's okay not to know things, first of all. And it's okay not to choose a side just yet." Right? Because there's, there's nothing wrong with your ignorance on the why behind this issue. Th- there's nothing wrong with that. You're young, you don't have the experiences yet, it's fine. But there is something wrong with having a very strong opinion on that when you don't actually understand it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:43

      Yes.

   7. DCDan Crenshaw17:44

      That's, that's what creates the animosity. That's what creates the divisiveness. Because once you're emotionally attached to an opinion, it's, it, it's not easy to, to remove yourself from that. Uh, it, it takes a, a massive amount of, of, I think humility, um, and which is, it's an attribute we all aspire to but maybe don't have exactly. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:04

      Yeah.

   9. DCDan Crenshaw18:04

      Uh, and it's hard. And so, uh, it's, it's okay not to know and to ask questions and to just wonder and to think, "Uh, maybe what I'm hearing isn't exactly the whole truth. Maybe I'll look into it before I start posting on social media about how,"-... how awful that situation is or, or whatever.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:18

       People love to know, you know, even if they don't. They l- they love to be the person that has the information. And one of the things that social media has done is, uh, allowed this sort of text-based debate format where people can shut people down. "Wrong." And say this.

   11. DCDan Crenshaw18:31

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:31

       "The problem with that is this and this." And everybody wants to be correct about things because they're married to these ideas. If these ideas succeed, they succeed.

   13. DCDan Crenshaw18:40

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:40

       If they, they get a zinger off on someone-

   15. DCDan Crenshaw18:42

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:42

       ... in some sort of online political debate, they walk around with, like a fucking, like a peacock, strutting.

   17. DCDan Crenshaw18:47

       Absolutely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:47

       You know, like they won. They got one in. And for many people, this is, like, the only form of competition they participate in, which I think is a real problem in our culture. Human beings desire competition.

   19. DCDan Crenshaw18:59

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       Espe- especially men. It is a gi- and when they shy away from it, they usually become secretly, quietly angry, and they, they, they harbo- harbor resentment and bitterness, and they never understand the feeling of losing and getting better, the feeling of failing and improving, the feeling of not knowing something and then learning something. Like, these, these things are critical, and to pretend that you know something when you don't, it's a terrible way to go about your life.

   21. DCDan Crenshaw19:27

       Yeah. I mean, that's a very good point on the competitive aspects of things. Uh, you obviously compete a lot. I've competed a lot in my life, and I, I can't imagine a world where that didn't happen. And I can't imagine a world where I didn't have to suffer as a kid through some losses in my soccer game. And then when my parents didn't say, "Well, you deserved to win," they said, "Well, you lost." (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       Yeah.

   23. DCDan Crenshaw19:48

       So, so that's what happens. And guess what? Welcome to life. And- (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       Yeah, I mean, "We still love you, but you, you fucking lost."

   25. DCDan Crenshaw19:54

       Yeah. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       And that's life. That's real.

   27. DCDan Crenshaw19:56

       Yeah, should've trained harder. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       It's, uh, the i- the, uh, they're doing that with these little kids, man. When my daughter was three, she had a soccer game where there was no winners and no losers. Like, uh, the other team fucking won. I watched-

   29. DCDan Crenshaw20:06

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:07

       ... the, the ball went in the goal. Everybody was cheering.
5. 20:25 – 25:26

   Outrage culture, trauma narratives, and lessons from SEAL training

   1. DCDan Crenshaw20:25

      I'm writing a whole book on this (laughs) actually.

   2. JRJoe Rogan20:27

      I'm glad.

   3. DCDan Crenshaw20:28

      Uh, and, uh, it's about outraged culture. It's about becoming too soft. And, and, but I, but I try to make it a, you know, a, uh, a productive conversation. Each chapter will be lessons, you know, derived from my own experiences and, and derived from psychology.

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:44

      Yeah.

   5. DCDan Crenshaw20:44

      Uh, derived from ancient truths actually.

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:46

      Mm-hmm.

   7. DCDan Crenshaw20:47

      Uh, there's, you know ... N- nothing I will say in this book is going to be new, but that's kind of the point, and that's how you know it's good. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:54

      Yeah, we need to hear those things over and over again, s- you know. Sometimes you forget them. Sometimes they just need to be cemented in your psyche. And competition doesn't mean being mean. It doesn't mean ... People, uh, they're, they're associating it and equating it with either violence or aggression or, uh, toxic masculinity. There's all these words they kept throwing around for people feeling bad because they lost. But that feeling of feeling bad because you lost something is extremely valuable in your life. It ... And I don't wanna say-

   9. DCDan Crenshaw21:23

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:23

       ... it hardens you because it doesn't harden you emotionally. You still are the more, same amount of emotional availability.

   11. DCDan Crenshaw21:28

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:28

       But you get ... If you're accustomed to it ... And I always tell people, young men, get involved in martial arts. It, it ... Especially jujitsu-

   13. DCDan Crenshaw21:36

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:36

       ... 'cause you can do it, and you're not gonna get brain damage. You get strangled a bunch. You get your ass kicked all the time, and it teaches you humility.

   15. DCDan Crenshaw21:43

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:43

       It teaches you humility, and then you learn after that that you can get better, and then eventually, you become the hammer instead of being the nail.

   17. DCDan Crenshaw21:50

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:50

       And that's, that's something you can actually apply to your real life. You can understand that these lessons of failure and humility and humiliation and just getting pummeled, like, all that stuff pays off ultimately if you just keep showing up. And that's analogous to life. In life, if you can just keep showing up and keep working hard-

   19. DCDan Crenshaw22:10

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:10

       ... you're gonna have setbacks. You're gon- but you don't, don't let them define you. And you can move forward. But if you don't, if you just like, "The world's toxic. We need to nerf everything," and, you know, "Everyone needs a safe space. Well, we're, we're just gonna make a whole island full of pussies."

   21. DCDan Crenshaw22:24

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       And we're in danger of doing that.

   23. DCDan Crenshaw22:27

       Yeah. W- we're definitely in danger of doing it if it hasn't already happened in many ways. And, and, like, what you're saying is intuitively true, that hardship creates a stronger mind.

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Yeah.

   25. DCDan Crenshaw22:36

       Right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Lessons.

   27. DCDan Crenshaw22:37

       B- but it's, it's not just intuitively true. This is, this is in data. This is in, this is in science as well, um, and in, in a lot of psychological research. You know, this is a- and, and we know it to be true. What, the reason I, like, act- I love the, the subject of psychology because it kinda tells us things that we already intuit to be true.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:55

       Mm-hmm.

   29. DCDan Crenshaw22:55

       And, uh, and, and it just makes sense. And, and this is certainly one of those. And there's a lot of studies that show people who have suffered deep trauma, um, uh, e- end up better for it as long as they're telling themselves the right stories. And so this ... Like, I go into this a lot in my book too. You have to tell yourself the right story about that trauma. Uh, you have to tell yourself that you are resilient and that you, and that you are empowered to overcome it. That's, that's a very important narrative that you have to tell yourself. If you tell yourself it just happened to you and it's not fair and everybody's out to get you-

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:23

       Right.
6. 25:26 – 31:27

   Breaking a leg at BUD/S, “hurt vs injured,” and the ‘No Plan B’ mindset

   1. DCDan Crenshaw25:26

      (laughs) in training that the combat doesn't feel all that bad, and, and we're ready to get y- your eye blown out of your head, like I did. Uh, you're ready for that. You, you understand it, and it's, it's not surprising. You don't react as, uh, in an emotional way when it does happen, uh, because you've allowed yourself to be hardened and you've told yourself the right story about that. What is a traumatic experience? I mean, uh, h- hell week can be (laughs) it, it really is. I broke my leg the first time through. I had to do it again. So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:55

      How'd you break your leg?

   3. DCDan Crenshaw25:56

      Uh, just a stress fracture that turned into a fracture, and it just snapped at the, at the, uh, while we were running with the boats on our heads. So we run with these 200 or 300 pound boats on our heads that are basically the kind of boats that you use in, um, river rafting, and, but we run everywhere with them, um, with some estimates maybe up to 200 miles in just hell week alone. So, uh, it, it's, it's one of the reasons older, older guys, you know, maybe 25 and older have a lot of hard, a hard time getting-

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:20

      Older guys?

   5. DCDan Crenshaw26:21

      ... through BUD/S.

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:21

      25?

   7. DCDan Crenshaw26:21

      Yeah, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:21

      That's hilarious.

   9. DCDan Crenshaw26:22

      Yeah, because y- your, your body just breaks-

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:25

       Right.

   11. DCDan Crenshaw26:25

       ... more, you know? Y- uh, our early 20s are probably the prime time. Your muscles are developed about that time. Uh, your bone structure can still handle the, the just immense amount of punishment that it's taking, and, uh, you know, except for mine, which we called it, you know, and then we'd make fun of each other and say, "Oh, nice weak genes you have there."

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:40

       (laughs)

   13. DCDan Crenshaw26:40

       "That's why you broke."

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:42

       Okay. (laughs) So, your leg broke, and how much time did you need before you went back to do it again?

   15. DCDan Crenshaw26:46

       Uh, six months. I was enrolled three classes. Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:48

       What, which, uh, which bone?

   17. DCDan Crenshaw26:50

       Left tibia.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:51

       Oh, okay.

   19. DCDan Crenshaw26:52

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:52

       That's a big one.

   21. DCDan Crenshaw26:53

       Yeah. Yeah, it hurt. Um, you know? (laughs) It's-

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:56

       That's a dangerous-

   23. DCDan Crenshaw26:57

       It's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:57

       ... one to break too. There's not a lot of blood flow there.

   25. DCDan Crenshaw26:59

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:59

       It's amazing that you got back in there six months later. A lot of times ... I know a guy who broke his leg, and, uh, he was, phew, he was fucked up for a good solid couple years.

   27. DCDan Crenshaw27:08

       Yeah, and, um, and it was a risk because we weren't sure. I, I, the, uh, frankly the command was getting impatient. They're like, "We're not gonna let you heal anymore. Six months is it."

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:18

       Jesus.

   29. DCDan Crenshaw27:18

       "So, go for it." Um, and, uh, you know, and it, it, you know, it's not like a compound fracture either. This is a crack in the bone, so, m- m- maybe it ... and in any case, it worked out just fine. But, uh, it's a risky thing because you ... I knew it broke, right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:32

       Mm-hmm.
7. 31:27 – 36:10

   Real leadership voices vs motivational ‘word harvesting’ (Jocko stories included)

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:27

      Yeah. It's, um, it's, uh, it's an interesting thing because of this world where there are so many people that are teaching lessons, that are teaching, you know, what you got... But then there's real ones like Jocko, you know? Like b- w- when a, when a guy like Jocko says something, everybody listens-

   2. DCDan Crenshaw31:42

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan31:42

      ... 'cause he's done it.

   4. DCDan Crenshaw31:43

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:43

      Like, this is real shit. And, you know, you see his watch every morning on his Instagram, 4:30 in the morning.

   6. DCDan Crenshaw31:49

      So annoying.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:50

      He's up. (laughs)

   8. DCDan Crenshaw31:50

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:50

      It's fucking very annoying when you wake up at 8:00 and you feel good about yourself. (laughs)

   10. DCDan Crenshaw31:53

       And not a morning... W- we're not all morning people, Jocko.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:55

       He's not either. Guess what?

   12. DCDan Crenshaw31:56

       (laughs) Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       He's not a morning person either.

   14. DCDan Crenshaw31:58

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:58

       He'd like to sleep in.

   16. DCDan Crenshaw31:59

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       But he gets up and he fucking gets after it. And that guy's fuel for m- fucking millions of people in this country.

   18. DCDan Crenshaw32:05

       He is. He- he's great.

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:06

       Because of his books and his videos and all the t- That video, Good, you've seen that video?

   20. DCDan Crenshaw32:11

       I don't think I've... I've seen a lot of them.

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Fuck.

   22. DCDan Crenshaw32:12

       I'm not sure which one you're talking about.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       Man, the one Good, I think about that when I run 'cause, uh, like, w- it's, it's talking about things going wrong, good.

   24. DCDan Crenshaw32:19

       Oh, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       Ch- chance to get better, good.

   26. DCDan Crenshaw32:20

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:21

       You know, everything fell apart? Good.

   28. DCDan Crenshaw32:22

       You're, you're welcoming the failure.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       Regroup. Yeah.

   30. DCDan Crenshaw32:23

       You're welcoming the failure.
8. 36:10 – 54:56

   Polarization, social media incentives, and censorship: TERFs, ‘deadnaming,’ and Section 230

   1. JRJoe Rogan36:10

      That's also nice too, that you guys have these differing political philosophies, but yet you can be friendly with each other. 'Cause in today's day and age, I mean, I don't know what the fuck happened. Somewhere around 2016 when Trump won, everybody went haywire.

   2. DCDan Crenshaw36:23

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan36:23

      And now you're either with us or against us. You, you can't talk to Republicans and if you do, you're a bad person and you're a part of the problem and you're probably a white nationalist. And like, it's just... It's the most divided I can remember ever this country being.

   4. DCDan Crenshaw36:37

      It... Yeah. It's insane. Um, now on Capitol Hill, it's a little less. Like, I think behind closed doors, people do talk to each other-

   5. JRJoe Rogan36:46

      Mm-hmm.

   6. DCDan Crenshaw36:46

      ... quite a bit. And I think it'd be good if the American people understood that that's actually what happens. Uh, so they... We, we do debate vigorously in public.... and, and some of us don't talk to each other, just to be clear. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan36:57

      Why don't you guys host a reality show?

   8. DCDan Crenshaw36:57

      It's not, not every ... Not everybody. (laughs) Yeah, it wouldn't that make ... Well, we kinda do, right? (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan37:01

      Real people of Capitol Hill? (laughs)

   10. DCDan Crenshaw37:01

       I, I mean, between ... We, uh, kinda do. I mean, I put so much of w- what I do every day out on, on social media-

   11. JRJoe Rogan37:07

       Yes.

   12. DCDan Crenshaw37:08

       ... as, and others, as other members of Congress do sometimes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan37:10

       Well, it's a new thing, right?

   14. DCDan Crenshaw37:11

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan37:11

       It's-

   16. DCDan Crenshaw37:12

       And it's, it's a great way for people to get to know you. I think that there's a lot of value in that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan37:15

       Yeah.

   18. DCDan Crenshaw37:15

       Uh, you know, the, the old political way of thinking is don't say too much because th- you'll get crucified for it, and, uh, stick to your talking points because there's just ... There was, for a long time, and there's still th- there's, uh, still this argument to be made that there's no reward for being open and honest about things, for having that nuanced conversation. And, uh, that, that is still true, by the way. I've, I've certainly discovered it on my own. Uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:38

       Really? How so?

   20. DCDan Crenshaw37:39

       But just the, the backlash.

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:40

       You don't think there's a reward?

   22. DCDan Crenshaw37:41

       It's just, I think the backlash that you'll get from, from certain groups of people is, is, is quick and swift and unforgiving. And this is-

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:49

       Um-

   24. DCDan Crenshaw37:49

       And this is why, this is why ... Uh, now, again, is it worth it for me? Yes, I think it is because I'd still rather have that open conversation. I'd rather-

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:58

       No, I think, though-

   26. DCDan Crenshaw37:58

       ... sit with you for hours and actually get through this stuff.

   27. JRJoe Rogan38:00

       I think that that backlash is just the vocal minority, and I think there's a tremendous amount of people that are happy, uh, that you've done that and support you for doing that. They're just not vocal about it. They just-

   28. DCDan Crenshaw38:13

       I think you're probably right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan38:14

       For ... I'm fol- ... I know for sure 'cause when I talk to my buddies that, uh, you know, when I said, "Hey, I'm having that Dan Crenshaw," and they go, "Oh, I fucking like that guy, man." I'm like, "Did you ever post on his Twitter?" "No." "You ever post on his Instagram?" "No."

   30. DCDan Crenshaw38:26

       Yeah.
9. 54:56 – 1:06:11

   Electoral College, voting security, and the limits of ‘make voting easier’

   1. JRJoe Rogan54:56

      I mean, there's a lot of people that disagree with a lot of the aspects of it. One person, one vote, they would like that. They don't think that representative democracy is as important now because we have this ability to communicate that we didn't have in the 1800s. You know-

   2. DCDan Crenshaw55:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan55:08

      ... you had to send a fucking pony with a letter on it in order to get your word across. Now you can actually tweet and you could vote online if we so deem it and we made it legal.

   4. DCDan Crenshaw55:18

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan55:18

      Um, but...... the, the electoral college, do you feel like that that, and especially with, like, things like superdelegates, do you think that that's still the way to do things and it's still an effective way to-

   6. DCDan Crenshaw55:30

      Yeah. It, it-

   7. JRJoe Rogan55:31

      ... why is that?

   8. DCDan Crenshaw55:31

      Be- because the, the alternative is the 51% versus the 49%. And that, that, what that really boils down to is New York and, and, and, and Los Angeles telling everybody who the president should be.

   9. JRJoe Rogan55:43

      But the f-... The vast majority of people don't live in New York and Los Angeles. New York is, like-

   10. DCDan Crenshaw55:46

       That's exactly the problem. Tw-

   11. JRJoe Rogan55:48

       ... 20 million and seven... what is it? Nine million or something in New York?

   12. DCDan Crenshaw55:51

       I'm just saying, but th- th-... And, and that's the issue, right? 'Cause you, you really are... You're, you're, you're... A- and when people congregate in population centers, they also tend to start to think alike.

   13. JRJoe Rogan56:00

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DCDan Crenshaw56:01

       And I, I, I just think... And at a more fundamental level, look at the difference between Democrats and Republicans. People always wonder what that difference is. And there's a lot of differences, of course. But a really kinda simple heuristic to think about it is the word democrat and republican. (laughs) Okay? One believes in a pure democracy. One believes in a republic. I'm not saying democrats believe in total pure democracy. But, but when you're saying abolish the electoral college, you are saying pure democracy. You're saying 51% of the population can tell the other 49% what to do. The electoral college is a, is a check and balance against that that gives those states in the middle, uh, some kind of voice that they wouldn't have otherwise had. It makes them... Why is everybody in Iowa right now? Do you think they'd be in Iowa if, uh, if, if we didn't have electoral college?

   15. JRJoe Rogan56:43

       Good deer hunting there.

   16. DCDan Crenshaw56:44

       Yeah. Well, that's a good reason to go. (laughs) But-

   17. JRJoe Rogan56:46

       They like corn.

   18. DCDan Crenshaw56:46

       But, but, but the reality is is they would only-

   19. JRJoe Rogan56:48

       Yeah.

   20. DCDan Crenshaw56:48

       They would only be campaigning in the big population centers. They wouldn't bother going to the rural areas, uh, because you're gonna get the most bang for your buck going to just the populated areas.

   21. JRJoe Rogan56:57

       In terms of campaigning physically.

   22. DCDan Crenshaw56:58

       Campaigning physically.

   23. JRJoe Rogan56:59

       Right.

   24. DCDan Crenshaw56:59

       And also, but also who you're accountable to, so that's the most important thing. Who are you accountable to? You're not gonna care if you're accountable to the rural areas like you should be and to the middle of the country like you should be because if you only care about 51% of the vote, you're just going to go to those main population centers. And you're only gonna talk to them, and you're only gonna care what they think. And I don't think that's good... That's not a good... That's not good for democracy, especially when we have such a wide diversity of preferences and, and, uh, just styles of living across the country.

   25. JRJoe Rogan57:27

       Is it still that important to be physically in a place to campaign, like to physically go to Chicago to campaign or physically go to Iowa?

   26. DCDan Crenshaw57:34

       Yeah. People... I think people wanna see you, you know? There's a good argument to be, to be made that Hillary Clinton lost because she just didn't go to Wisconsin those last-

   27. JRJoe Rogan57:41

       Yeah.

   28. DCDan Crenshaw57:41

       ... days. So I think people s-... Uh, people wanna get to know you.

   29. JRJoe Rogan57:43

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DCDan Crenshaw57:43

       People wanna see you.

Episode duration: 2:36:10