Joe Rogan Experience #1356 - Sturgill Simpson & His Band

1. 0:00 – 1:40

   Band intros + why intimate venues hit harder (Troubadour recap)

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... we willed it into existence. Do, do, do. Sturgill motherfucking Simpson and his band. Uh, uh, just let's introduce everybody.

   2. SSSturgill Simpson0:07

      Okay, you want me to do that?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      You wanna do that? Yeah, you can do it.

   4. SSSturgill Simpson0:09

      All right, uh, s- next to you is my, my drummer, Miles. (door closing) We have Chuck, he plays the bass.

   5. MMMiles Miller0:17

      Hello.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson0:17

      Down on the end is Bob, he plays the keys. And this is our, uh, head of security, this is Justin. He's a ... You know, we weren't sure about this place, so we brought help, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      It's a sketchy joint. Um, you guys were fucking fantastic last night. We had a great time.

   8. SSSturgill Simpson0:34

      Thanks, man.

   9. MMMiles Miller0:35

      Thanks.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       So, the Troubadour is such a great place to see you two 'cause it's so intimate, man.

   11. MMMiles Miller0:39

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       You know, it's such a, it's, it's a really interesting place. It's so tight, you know?

   13. SSSturgill Simpson0:44

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       It's so old school and a fucking million shows have happened in that joint.

   15. SSSturgill Simpson0:47

       Everybody has played there.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Everybody.

   17. MMMiles Miller0:49

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson0:50

       Yeah, it was f- it was interesting for us. We didn't feel like it was a good show. I think we kinda-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       What?

   20. SSSturgill Simpson0:54

       ... we kinda woke up about halfway through, but also-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       No.

   22. MMMiles Miller0:56

       Oh, what?

   23. SSSturgill Simpson0:56

       ... it's the first time we've been this close to people in a while.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       It was a great show, man.

   25. SSSturgill Simpson1:02

       It was fun.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       I enjoyed the fuck out of it. And, uh, Suzanne from Honey Honey, Suzanne Santos-

   27. SSSturgill Simpson1:06

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       ... she came with me too, they, she loved it. It was great, man. We had a good time.

   29. MMMiles Miller1:10

       Hell yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       (laughs)
2. 1:40 – 4:41

   Amphitheaters vs clubs + Everlast and skate-shop chaos

   1. SSSturgill Simpson1:40

      Quicker than anything. Uh, we don't, I don't really like the, the amphitheater, like the outdoor amphitheater things-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:44

      Yes.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson1:45

      ... the t- the tin roof sheds.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:47

      I feel the same.

   5. SSSturgill Simpson1:47

      It's just not, it's, there's no connection 'cause everybody that is close to you is sitting down, and then there's this giant, like picnic going on behind them up on the grass. It's always just a weird separation.

   6. MMMiles Miller1:57

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:57

      What happened, Jamie? I wanted ... What are we doing? I didn't switch, sorry. Oh (laughs) .

   8. MMMiles Miller2:03

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      Had a problem. I thought you were trying something new out.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson2:06

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:06

       Um, yeah, the amphitheatres are weird. I mean, uh, they can be great. Oh, there, oh, there's the picture from the Troubadour last night. That was fun, man.

   12. MMMiles Miller2:14

       Nice.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:15

       That place, I mean how many people does that seat?

   14. SSSturgill Simpson2:17

       Probably 400, I think.

   15. MMMiles Miller2:18

       500.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson2:19

       500?

   17. MMMiles Miller2:19

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       They were stuffed in there. That is a fire hazard.

   19. SSSturgill Simpson2:22

       Mm-hmm (laughs) .

   20. MMMiles Miller2:22

       Mm-hmm, for sure. Someone, someone fucked up.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson2:24

       Bobby's organ's a fire hazard.

   22. MMMiles Miller2:27

       (laughs)

   23. SSSturgill Simpson2:27

       (laughs)

   24. MMMiles Miller2:27

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       It was a good time, though. It really was. I saw Everlast perform there recently. He was there like, uh, just a few weeks ago.

   26. SSSturgill Simpson2:36

       I met that dude once.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       He's awesome.

   28. SSSturgill Simpson2:38

       He is a chill guy, man. He really is.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       (sighs) The best.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson2:41

       We were at a, it was at Mo- this guy Dom owns like a skate, it's like a skate shop. My buddy Ian took me to this skate shop that he had a bunch of sneakers there. I was looking for some sneakers. And it was just this little sleepy skate shop. And, uh, and then he's like, "Yo, let's go out back." And we walked out back and there's like 12 X Games champions back there just slaying this halfpipe. I'd never really seen that shit that, you know, up close like that, just like, you know, thrashing. And, uh, it was intense. And then we're sitting there hanging out, and then fucking Everlast shows up.
3. 4:41 – 7:22

   Could Sturgill rap? White rappers, accents, and Shia LaBeouf freestyles

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:41

      You've tried a lot of different forms of music. Do you ever think you would ever do hip hop?

   2. SSSturgill Simpson4:46

      Oh, God no.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:47

      That would be a weird stretch.

   4. SSSturgill Simpson4:49

      Uh, well, there's just so many other people that should do it other than me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:53

      (laughs)

   6. MMMiles Miller4:54

      (laughs)

   7. SSSturgill Simpson4:54

      You know? Um, I would love to, but no. I would love to produce a hip hop record with Bob. I think we could probably make some fat fucking tracks and just get some rappers to do the actual art.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:06

      Yeah.

   9. SSSturgill Simpson5:07

      You know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:08

       S- I think, I know what you're saying, and I know how you, you're feeling, but I think you could pull it off. I think you-

   11. SSSturgill Simpson5:14

       Like rapping?

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:15

       Yeah, I think you could.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson5:15

       Sturge Ill?

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Yes. You could-

   15. MMMiles Miller5:18

       (laughs) He kinda, he kinda already does in some-

   16. SSSturgill Simpson5:19

       I, all right-

   17. MMMiles Miller5:20

       ... ways anyway.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson5:20

       You gonna give me up, man? I'll stay.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       Yeah, I think, um-

   20. MMMiles Miller5:21

       He kinda raps a little bit.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       No bullshit, I think-

   22. SSSturgill Simpson5:23

       I spit on the bus a little bit, truth be told. All right, you know?

   23. MMMiles Miller5:26

       Just some poems, you know?

   24. SSSturgill Simpson5:27

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       You'd have to be lit, but you could do it.

   26. SSSturgill Simpson5:31

       You know who can fucking rap for a white guy? Shia LaBeouf, man.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       Can he?

   28. SSSturgill Simpson5:35

       Yeah. He did some radio show years back out here in LA, and like it was actually impressive.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       Wow.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson5:42

       Yeah, his freestyle was, was fire.
4. 7:22 – 12:31

   One-hit wonders + how the internet changed breaking a band

   1. SSSturgill Simpson7:22

      Remember Snow?

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:22

      Yes!

   3. MMMiles Miller7:23

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:23

      Informer.

   5. MMMiles Miller7:25

      Snow.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson7:25

      Snow. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:25

      Like, he had, like, a whole-

   8. MMMiles Miller7:26

      He did the Patois thing.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:28

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk in the mic, brother.

   10. MMMiles Miller7:30

       Yeah, sure.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Sorry.

   12. MMMiles Miller7:30

       I just said he did the Patois thing.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson7:32

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:32

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He went Jamaican on us, right?

   15. MMMiles Miller7:35

       Yeah.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson7:35

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:35

       But it was really good.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson7:36

       Which is even weirder.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:37

       It was so weird.

   20. MMMiles Miller7:38

       (laughs)

   21. SSSturgill Simpson7:38

       Like, what the fuck?

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       It was s- unless he's from Jamaica.

   23. MMMiles Miller7:41

       Toronto.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:42

       Is he a, , oh, was he?

   25. MMMiles Miller7:43

       Yeah, which doesn't, I mean, it's not better-

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       Hmm. That's-

   27. MMMiles Miller7:44

       But there's a lot of-

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       No.

   29. SSSturgill Simpson7:45

       That just keeps getting better.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:46

       That's Canada.
5. 12:31 – 16:41

   Burnout, experimentation, and refusing to be a karaoke machine

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:31

      You know, when you switch shit up, uh, uh, this new album is so weird, man. It's great. It's great. But it's so interesting. If you go back to like your first album and then listen to this album-

   2. SSSturgill Simpson12:41

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      ... you'll be like, "That's not the same fucking guy." (laughs)

   4. SSSturgill Simpson12:43

      But it is.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:44

      I know.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson12:44

      It is the same guy.

   7. JLJustin Laseck12:44

      Yeah.

   8. SSSturgill Simpson12:44

      It's just they're all different-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:46

      Yeah.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson12:46

       ... uh, expressions or interests.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       But that, it's really exciting. You know, when, when someone mixes their style up as much as you do and you guys put together these albums, you know, e- each one of 'em is... They're uniquely you, but they're all different. It's a, it's a... You've got a real weird thing going on, man. (laughs) Like, if you went back and listened to your first album and then listened to the... They're all awesome.

   12. SSSturgill Simpson13:10

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:10

       But they're awesome in, like, all these different ways, man.

   14. SSSturgill Simpson13:13

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       You know, it's so cool to see all this experimentation, like this anime thing you're doing with this, and it's really badass.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson13:19

       That, that was really just sort of, uh, a lot of things lining up out of my control. That, that, that movie, we only started on that literally a little over a year ago.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:29

       Okay.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson13:29

       And just the way it all came together and how many people were working simultaneously is the only reason it got finished as fast as it... But it definitely delayed me releasing the record for at least a year.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:40

       But it's such a great idea. (laughs)

   20. SSSturgill Simpson13:41

       Yeah, it was... Well, I mean, you know, if you... If we're here to... Well, the whole reason we went in the studio and made this thing is 'cause we h- reached a point of burnout. I th- I definitely did. And then, uh, you also reach a point where now you realize the only way we're gonna survive and make money as musicians is touring, so why wouldn't we make this as fun for ourselves as possible?

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SSSturgill Simpson14:02

       And ju-

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       Yeah.

   24. SSSturgill Simpson14:02

       You know, you play these festivals, and then you're rocking out three or four songs, and the people are jumping. And, and I just kinda asked everybody, "Why wou- why can't we just go do that for two hours and make music that people can dance and have a great time to and still..." You know, Myles has probably been listening to me talk about making, uh, you know, fucking dubstep rock and roll record for five years-

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:26

       (laughs)

   26. SSSturgill Simpson14:27

       ... and we finally just did it, like...

   27. JLJustin Laseck14:28

       Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

   28. SSSturgill Simpson14:29

       I don't know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:32

       But it's, it's great that you take those steps, you know-

   30. SSSturgill Simpson14:36

       Well, these guys help a lot too. The last... We were touring in 2018, and the music was just sorta going there anyway on stage. Um, you know-
6. 16:41 – 20:25

   Making records with a band (not session players) + label control battles

   1. SSSturgill Simpson16:41

      We don't really talk about it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:42

      You guys don't ever get together?

   3. SSSturgill Simpson16:43

      I mean, I'll, I'll write lyrics and stuff or maybe have like a rough idea, structure, and form. But these guys are all, like, bonafide musical geniuses, man. They're all... And, like, their flavor... That's why, you know, like, on this record, I'd never done it before but, um, at a certain point, anybody that's in the room is contributing wh- whether they're writing the songs or not, just their presence, the energy they bring to that track. Like, they're, y- y- if, if you got a guy that plays the perfect thing the first take, y- what are you really producing? You know what I mean?

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:13

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JLJustin Laseck17:13

      (clears throat)

   6. SSSturgill Simpson17:13

      You're hire- you're hiring someone for what, v- or as a tool, and, you know, there, like Nashville, there's all these session players, so i- in a sense it's just this giant toolbox. And there might be 10 guys you could call today to do this thing, but a- two of them might be way more perfect for this specific thing than those other eight.

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:30

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SSSturgill Simpson17:31

      They're all badasses, but, you know, you know, you can flavor... Man, I just found the right, the right flavors that I wanna stand up there with 'cause these gu- I could make 10 records with these guys, and they're all gonna sound like 10 different bands.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:43

      Now, is this because you guys don't have... I mean, how much of influence do record companies have on new bands? Like, when new bands are coming up, and they're trying to put together their music, how much influence do record companies have on the creative process?

   10. SSSturgill Simpson17:58

       It just depends. Did they discover them, or are they already, are they, are they jumping on board with something that's already working?

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       Uh, well, I mean, uh, someone, uh, like in a, as an artist, like someone looking at you as an artist going, "Yeah, you... Let him do whatever the fuck he wants." You know? Like, "Let him, let him-"

   12. SSSturgill Simpson18:12

       Let him try (laughs) . No, that's a very rare thing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       It's rare-

   14. SSSturgill Simpson18:15

       If you're dealing with record companies, right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:18

       ... with executive? Right. Yeah.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson18:18

       I, I had to... I had got it contractually written into my contract that nobody could tell me what to do.

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:25

       So it's common that you get fucked with?

   18. SSSturgill Simpson18:27

       I mean, everybody's gonna have their two cents-

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:28

       Right.

   20. SSSturgill Simpson18:28

       ... their input. There's gonna, "Here's what we really want you to want to do."

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:32

       Right because like-

   22. SSSturgill Simpson18:33

       You know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:33

       ... this is g-, prob-, probably, I would think there would be executives who go, "Stop! Stop fucking with it right there! Just leave it right there, trust me! "

   24. SSSturgill Simpson18:39

       Well-

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       "Put it out like that."

   26. SSSturgill Simpson18:40

       ... those would be, like, actual record men. The guys that used to run the record business. Like, they knew what the real shit was, and you don't fuck with the real shit. But there's very few of those people actually working in the record business anymore. It's all, like, 25-, 30-year-old bottom line quarterly report motherfuckers.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:57

       (groans)

   28. CBChuck Bartels18:57

       It's all about the money.

   29. SSSturgill Simpson18:59

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:00

       But wouldn't you think that excellence would bring money? Like, espe- especially today, in this day and age-
7. 20:25 – 22:37

   Quitting a rail-yard career at 35 + how life experience feeds songwriting

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:25

      Man. What were you doing at 35 when you quit?

   2. SSSturgill Simpson20:29

      Mm...

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:30

      You working on a railroad or something?

   4. SSSturgill Simpson20:31

      I was work-, I was the operations manager at a rail yard at a, uh, intermodal yard out, out in Utah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:36

      Wow!

   6. SSSturgill Simpson20:36

      Running a rail yard, uh, just overseeing the switching crews that, when the trains would pull in from the east and west side of the yard, we would break those trains apart and, like, look at other manifests and drag cars off of the rails and build them into those trains and then crew them again and get them on the line.

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:52

      Damn.

   8. SSSturgill Simpson20:53

      So I was working, like, 90-hour weeks.

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:55

      Phew.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson20:56

       Mostly cleaning up train wrecks and derailments or, like, they blew a switch and put three cars on the ground. We, we c-, we were the central artery in the, in the Midwest. Or the really, that, that corridor is kind of the cross-section of the entire country's shipping commerce, so if we fucked up and tied up the main lines, then we kind of shut down the railroad.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:16

       Do you know what's fucked up? You could never tell a kid, "Hey, you wanna, you wanna make meaningful music? This is what you gotta do. You gotta struggle in, like, difficult jobs till you're about 35 and ba-, you know, barely get to where you want to be, where you're really kind of freaking out about your future, and then pour yourself, your heart and soul, and then find success after that." That's a good move-

   12. SSSturgill Simpson21:37

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:37

       ... if you want to have impactful music. (laughs) But if you, if you get into music, like, early on in your life and make a career early on in your life, you miss everything that you did. By being an older m-, like, you're, you know, a 35-year-old man that makes a jump.

   14. SSSturgill Simpson21:51

       Yeah. I mean, that-

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       That's a bold move.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson21:53

       ... that makes sense, but there's been a lot of incredible artists that made some truly visionary shit at 20, you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:00

       For sure.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson22:01

       Um-

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:01

       But there's a life experience aspect to your music.

   20. SSSturgill Simpson22:05

       Uh, well, yeah. I mean, like, I wouldn't know what the f-, I wouldn't have any of this shit to write about if I'd done it at 20.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:09

       Yeah.

   22. SSSturgill Simpson22:11

       Um, I'd be wri-, God knows what I'd be writing about. Probably pussy.

   23. CBChuck Bartels22:15

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       (laughs) Yeah, for sure.

   25. SSSturgill Simpson22:19

       For sure.

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       Yeah.

   27. SSSturgill Simpson22:20

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       When you're young, what else, what are you thinking about? You know, if you're talking about stars and horoscopes and shit, you're probably bullshitting people.

   29. SSSturgill Simpson22:30

       E- also-

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       This podcast got weird real quick, huh?
8. 22:37 – 26:01

   Horoscopes, numerology, and ‘empaths’ + Nancy Reagan’s astrologer

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:37

      What do you think about horoscopes? Do you think that shit's real?

   2. SSSturgill Simpson22:41

      Um-

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:41

      Like astrology?

   4. CBChuck Bartels22:42

      (clears throat)

   5. SSSturgill Simpson22:43

      (laughs) What do you think about horoscopes (laughs) ? I'm actually interested in what he thinks about horoscopes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:48

      Yeah, what do you think about it, man?

   7. CBChuck Bartels22:50

      I mean, somebody's just making shit up for other people to read.

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:52

      You can move that mic so you don't have to break your neck.

   9. CBChuck Bartels22:54

      Yeah, you're just making stuff up if you're, if you're reading a horoscope or someone's trying to plan-, like, give you some sort of indication of what's gonna happen, serendipitously or by fate. Either way, it's just s-, someone making the shit up.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson23:08

       It's just horseshit.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:10

       People looking for patterns, I think.

   12. CBChuck Bartels23:12

       I'd have to learn about, like, the astrology aspect if they're trying to, they're, if they're using that for something effectively.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson23:18

       Uh, nume- numerology is the only thing in that world that even remotely interests me. It just because-

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:23

       How's that interest you?

   15. SSSturgill Simpson23:24

       It's based on, like, mathematics and-

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SSSturgill Simpson23:27

       ... and universal equations and shit. I don't know. Basically, like, don't, right, some people can get a little loopy with it and they, th-, they'll, th-, like, they won't fly on a airplane. They'll have their numerologist look at the flight numbers-

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       Mm.

   19. SSSturgill Simpson23:40

       ... or the, the number on the plane and, and how these things all correlate whether this is a wise decision or not, you know? That, that to me is just like, "What?" (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:47

       You know, Nancy Reagan was all deep into that.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson23:49

       Really?

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:50

       She was deep into astrology, actually, and she had, like, some famous astrologer who would read, do the readings for them. And she would dictate whether or not Ronald Reagan should go and do shit.

   23. SSSturgill Simpson24:02

       Based on numerology?

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:03

       Based on, based on astrology. It's not the same, right? Numerology is just numbers.

   25. SSSturgill Simpson24:07

       No, it's totally different.

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       But astrology is... But, but, but she, didn't she? Is that not the case? I'm pretty sure she was, like, balls deep into it, like, really into astrology.

   27. CBChuck Bartels24:19

       (laughs) After the assassination.

   28. BEBobby Emmett24:20

       Should we look that up?

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:21

       What's that? (laughs)

   30. BEBobby Emmett24:21

       We should look that up.
9. 26:01 – 30:31

   Tech eavesdropping + psychic ‘Spidey sense’ and human perception

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:01

      Like, like, have you ever been to an empath?

   2. MMMiles Miller26:04

      No, I have not.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson26:05

      No? What do you think about that?

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:06

      Exactly what does that? It means they...

   5. SSSturgill Simpson26:09

      Uh, like they ... I don't know, I guess that's what they call psychics now so you don't feel like you're getting ripped off.

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:13

      Oh. Oh, really? They call them empaths now?

   7. SSSturgill Simpson26:14

      Yeah, empaths. They're very empathetic.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:16

      Oh, I didn't-

   9. SSSturgill Simpson26:16

      They feel things.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:17

       Oh, is that what it is?

   11. SSSturgill Simpson26:18

       Your dead s- your dead family and...

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       (sighs) I don't think that anyone on this planet ... I don't think there's a, an, an equal ability to perceive anything. I think some people are way more perceptive. Some people are smarter. They see patterns better. They see trouble coming. They see problems. They see things better than other people do. And I think there's feelings that you get sometimes, like weird feelings. Then someone'll call you and you're like, "Fuck, I was just thinking about that dude. That is weird." Like someone sends you a text. You haven't thought about them or talked to them in months and months and months, and all of a sudden you think about them and bam, a text comes through.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson26:55

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MMMiles Miller26:55

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:55

       Or they're calling you. I don't know what that is, but I'm-

   16. SSSturgill Simpson26:57

       One time we were all texting about Jean-Claude Van Damme, and five minutes later my Netflix recommendations are full of Jean-Claude Van Damme.

   17. MMMiles Miller27:04

       Oh.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson27:04

       I've never watched a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie on Netflix in my life, and all of a sudden there's like eight of 'em.

   19. MMMiles Miller27:08

       That's the government, bro.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:09

       Oh, yeah.

   21. MMMiles Miller27:09

       Someone's listening.

   22. SSSturgill Simpson27:10

       It creeped me out.

   23. JRJoe Rogan27:10

       That should creep you out. That should creep you out.

   24. SSSturgill Simpson27:13

       I had a meeting with Netflix about this anime thing early on, and I brought this shit up and asked them point-blank. They said no.

   25. MMMiles Miller27:20

       Of course they did. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:21

       Maybe, maybe they just get results. Maybe it's like they have a cleaner, and they say to this guy, "Listen, I don't give a fuck how you find out what these people are talking about, but you can find out, right?" "Uh, yeah, maybe. Uh, we'll see." "Just don't tell me. Just do it. Just do it."

   27. MMMiles Miller27:35

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:35

       And this guy just, like ... this thing is just listening to every goddamn word you say and providing suggestions for things you could buy on Amazon. Maybe. But I was thinking about psychics though-

   29. MMMiles Miller27:45

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:46

       ... is I think some people are probably better at that. I bet there is moments where some people have a weird sense. I just don't think it's consistent enough for anybody to pay money for it.
10. 30:31 – 47:25

    Special Forces Foundation spotlight: Chuck’s war injury, recovery, and ketamine

    1. CBChuck Bartels30:31

       I'm hanging out with these guys because I'm a Green Beret, and I got hurt, and you saw the show last night. So, I'm speaking at the shows 'cause, uh, Sturgill on his own... Well, let me back up. I got blown up in March and I was in the hospital. Previous year, I'd like, uh, come off of a deployment. I had, like, 11 months before the second one. Was a bit down in the, down in the dumps. Got, got divorced. Had a dude die on the first trip, so it was kind of like, poof. It was real rough to deal with. And then, was listening to these dudes quite a bit, and then led into the next deployment. I was there a month. Boom. Almost just died pretty hard. Um, teammates saved me and, uh, we had blood on the ground. Like, I got blood on, on target and then they made a hellacious movement to get me to medevac. Long story short, I'm eating dinner in the hospital, one of the first meals jamming out to these dudes, and I was like, "Mom, I wanna, I wanna meet Sturgill Simpson." And then she tried to get a hold of him, SOCOM eventually did, and, uh, he came, hung out for, like, two hours. Uh, I made, uh, my friend, now General Beaudette, wait, like, 15 minutes so that we could finish (laughs) talking about what we were talking about, which when you're, when you're an enlisted dude, you don't make generals wait. But (laughs) I was on a lot of ketamine, so it was, it was sweet. But, uh, then, uh, Sturgill had it on his ow- had it on his own accord to, like, donate to the foundation. So, this little tour going on that coincides with the actual album release is donating to the Special Forces Foundation. So, um, that helps Gold Star families, which are the families that remained of the- remained of the friends that got killed on this trip. Uh, so there were four Green Berets and two EOD techs. And, uh... So, that money's going to them, and that's, that's what I care about. I don't... Like, I'm alive. I don't have, uh, any legs below my knees, for those that can't... Well, you can't see my legs on the video anyway, but... And I don't have my testicles either, so that's a different set of challenges. But I, I don't care about getting taken care of other than the normal army processes, but I want them to get taken care of from the foundation. So, I'm grateful to have these guys as friends now. They're awesome. They're amazing musicians, but amazing people. And then I'm grateful to be here and just to push that out, so... People are coming to the shows, all that money goes to the, the foundation and then people can, uh, go on the foundation's website, which is specialforcesfoundation.org. And, uh, yeah, I appreciate it.

    2. JRJoe Rogan33:00

       That's fucking awesome, man.

    3. CBChuck Bartels33:01

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan33:01

       That's really, really, really cool. That's really cool that you're doing this. And, um, and thank you for coming here and telling everybody this. You know, this is, um... It's a great way to... It's a great way to help out and, and your music, you know, to connect it to that, I think that's, that's just a fucking incredible thing. It's really cool. You know, when you were sending me the text messages telling me that you were going to the hospital, you know, it's very touching.

    5. MMMiles Miller33:30

       It's... It was like, uh... Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan33:34

       Yeah, you were... You know, you could tell you were seriously moved by this. And, you know, for someone like you who truly understands the consequences of war, like, the physical consequences in a way that none of us will ever understand, you know, it's, it's very... Not just... It's brave of you to talk about this-

    7. CBChuck Bartels33:53

       (laughs)

    8. JRJoe Rogan33:53

       ... but it's also, it's so, so valuable. So valuable for everybody that, that hasn't served to, to understand what it really is. So, thank you for that.

    9. CBChuck Bartels34:02

       Well, I always say I really like combat 'cause I was in a lot of it, uh, relatively speaking. Bu- bunch of guys have been in way more combat, bunch of people have treated more casualties. I'm a medic, but I was in a fair amount, almost got killed on the first trip a good handful of times and then, uh... So, I just don't like the war aspect. When you see your friends get killed (laughs) and, uh, you're stuck in a hospital bed. On top of all this stuff that's... You know, I didn't shit for a week, I pissed blood for a week, I've had tons of nights of excruciating pain. That's the life of an amputee or there are guys that are worse than me, so I'm just grateful for having what I have. And, uh... Yeah. That's the beginning of it. Like, especially on ketamine (laughs) , when you're going through all that and you're just like... I was telling, like, the people that took the trash out in the room, like, "Hey, I'm grateful for you, brother." (laughs)

    10. JRJoe Rogan34:52

        Shh.

    11. CBChuck Bartels34:53

        "Right on, brother." (laughs)

    12. MMMiles Miller34:54

        (laughs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan34:54

        What is, uh, what is ketamine like after catastrophic in- injury like that? Does it relieve the pain? Does it just put you in another dimension?

    14. CBChuck Bartels35:04

        So, ketamine is a, an MDA.

    15. JRJoe Rogan35:06

        Pull this sucker right...

    16. CBChuck Bartels35:07

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan35:07

        Here, just

    18. CBChuck Bartels35:08

        got it.

    19. And ketamine is a, an MDA antagonist in the brain, so essentially it's a dissociative. So, the way that it feels, 'cause we learn this in class as a medic and everything, but the w- the way that it feels is kind of... (laughs) It takes your perspective and it's like, "Chh." It always felt like a whirlwind when the, if I was getting a push of it. But things, it's like you're starting to get your vision masked and, uh, you're pre- you're still there, but you're dipping into, like, subconscious, 'cause you're still conscious. 'Cause unconscious would mean that you're, like, you pass out and you cannot have a gag reflex depending on how unconscious you are, so... Uh, ketamine... I, I would close my eyes and immediately trip the most insane balls that you could imagine and open them and I'd be back in the room and I'd be like, "What the fuck?"

    20. JRJoe Rogan35:56

        Whoa.

    21. CBChuck Bartels35:56

        And then a friend of mine, uh, when I left my first rotation, he was an Air Force CCT that got, uh, blown up in the same village I, uh, had a few casualties in. Uh, he stepped on IED. He's an above-the-knee, some missing fingers, but when he was on ketamine, when he was awake and looking around, he'd see the walls on fire and then there'd be, like, women, like, white pale skin in the corners peeling the skin off their back, and he was, like, awake. (laughs) And I was like, "Dude, that's..."

    22. JRJoe Rogan36:24

        Holy shit.

    23. MMMiles Miller36:24

        Yeah.

    24. CBChuck Bartels36:25

        Like, whatever. I don't know. It must be, like, someone's psychology when they go in, like, set and setting type thing. But...... I was in it when I got a lot of ketamine, my legs were blown off. I'm getting worked on, I'm telling dudes how to treat me.

    25. JRJoe Rogan36:36

        (laughs)

    26. CBChuck Bartels36:37

        I cut my own shirt off, and then I get the ketamine and I'm, like, in and out, and I see these visions back and forth. And, like, I was convinced I was... There were two distinct moments I was like, "I'm not gonna make it," and had that conversation, so. (sighs) And what's surreal about this right here is that you were talking to him on this show, and you guys talked about combat medics. And you were like... And I just sing in key-

    27. JRJoe Rogan37:06

        Yeah.

    28. CBChuck Bartels37:06

        ... and I was like, "Right on, they're talking about me." (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan37:09

        (laughs)

    30. CBChuck Bartels37:09

        And, and then I got all kinds of jacked up.
11. 47:25 – 51:39

    War, gratitude, and avoiding escalation: MAD, terror, and near-peer conflict

    1. JRJoe Rogan47:25

       It's a hard f- thought for people to accept that war is inevitable. It's a, a hard thought. And it doesn't seem like it's inevitable 'cause it's not inevitable in this room. I mean, if we were the last people on Earth and there was a bunch of food and places to sleep, I think we'd probably not kill each other.

    2. SSSturgill Simpson47:43

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan47:43

       We probably wouldn't go to war. Right? (laughs) It's like, what is the number where you go to war? Is it a million? Is it two million? Is it separated by oceans? Is it just mountains or boundaries? But the fact that no one thinks that war can be solved, like no one, no one that I know thinks that in our lifetime, there'll be no war. There has never been a period where someone on Earth that's human hasn't been going to war with each other. It's a horrible truth of being a person. And nobody, nobody knows it the way you do. So for you to come on and, and tell your story the way you just did, I, I appreciate the fuck out of that, man. And ... (sighs)

    4. CBChuck Bartels48:26

       I would just want people ... If, if, if they hear that and it moves them, it's more of like a, a just be, uh, grateful on a regular basis for what ... for anything.

    5. JRJoe Rogan48:38

       Yeah.

    6. CBChuck Bartels48:38

       I mean-Steven Pinker was on your show. I ended up FaceTiming with him as a result of all this. But like, he has that book about basically the, the enlightenment worked and we still have war and then there are people still fighting it. Uh, but overall, the world is continuing to improve and like, (laughs) steadily getting better and fewer people are dying from genocide and war. But it still exists, so do I want the respect for war, if someone is wanting to go to war, you know, if someone is gonna be a commander-in-chief, and that's a, that's a heavy thing to, like, toss back and forth.

    7. JRJoe Rogan49:13

       Yeah, extremely.

    8. CBChuck Bartels49:14

       'Cause it, it's, it means that I may never have kids 'cause I don't have my balls, you know? Like, like, that you, there's sacrifice. Like, I, I... And I'm the one that lived, and I didn't have any kids, but like, my friends have four girls. My other, my other friend has three kids. So like, when you're... If you're gonna move the chess piece to war, then we need to understand the implications of what that means and try to do everything in political power, in state strategy, to avoid overt war, 'cause it's-

    9. JRJoe Rogan49:42

       Yeah.

    10. CBChuck Bartels49:43

        ... especially nasty.

    11. SSSturgill Simpson49:44

        Like near-pier?

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:47

        You mean like-

    13. CBChuck Bartels49:47

        That's-

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:48

        ... Russia or-

    15. CBChuck Bartels49:48

        Yeah.

    16. SSSturgill Simpson49:48

        Russia or China.

    17. CBChuck Bartels49:49

        Near-pier war would be the worst thing to... You know.

    18. JRJoe Rogan49:51

        Yeah. It's a m-

    19. CBChuck Bartels49:51

        That's, that's World War III.

    20. JRJoe Rogan49:52

        Mutually assured destruction is the strangest thing on Earth. That we all have enough weapons pointed at each other to literally nuke every fucking man, woman, and child off the face of the Earth many times over.

    21. CBChuck Bartels50:03

        (clears throat)

    22. JRJoe Rogan50:03

        And that's what keeps us (sniffs) from using 'em, but yet we still have 'em. (clears throat) And we still have 'em pointed at each other.

    23. CBChuck Bartels50:09

        Pshew.

    24. JRJoe Rogan50:10

        I mean, remember when you were kids and we were worried about Russia? Do you remember that shit?

    25. CBChuck Bartels50:15

        (inhales deeply) Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan50:16

        I'm older, I'm older than you guys.

    27. SSSturgill Simpson50:17

        Now I have kids and I'm worried about people walking into Target with a suicide vest, you know?

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:21

        Yeah, yeah.

    29. SSSturgill Simpson50:22

        When's that coming?

    30. JRJoe Rogan50:23

        Right. Yeah, you could... All of it.
12. 51:39 – 1:01:38

    Home invasion at gunpoint + the criminal-justice ‘factory’

    1. SSSturgill Simpson51:39

       I had to make that decision this year. I, I found out I'm not a psychopath. It was very reassuring.

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:46

       Yeah, you told me about that story.

    3. SSSturgill Simpson51:47

       Yeah. Um.

    4. JRJoe Rogan51:48

       Yeah, yeah.

    5. SSSturgill Simpson51:49

       But that was, uh, uh... I don't know. To be honest, uh, uh, I'll tell the story, but, uh, before I forget the thought.

    6. JRJoe Rogan51:57

       (laughs)

    7. SSSturgill Simpson51:57

       It was everything else associated with what happened after that I found more impactful and, um, you know, the stuff that lasted or stays with you.

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:09

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SSSturgill Simpson52:09

       It wasn't what actually happened. It was seeing the aftermath and, like, the system and how it all-

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:15

        Yeah.

    11. SSSturgill Simpson52:15

        ... pans out. Um, but yeah, we had a, we had two home invasions within 36 hours, I guess. Uh, the first time, the guy came in in the middle of the night, about 2:30, 3:00 AM, and our back door had this sensor on it, made a very signature noise. And if you live in your house, you know the noises in your house. And s- for, for whatever reason, it just woke me up from a dead sleep. And I knew what I heard and it was the only thing that would make that noise. So, um, I kind of snaked my way out in the hall and down to the top of the stairs. And when I hit the top of the stairs, I heard the, the dog growl and the door close back. So I knew that was somebody leaving. We have a huge fucking dog, um, basically useless, but he did growl and he made a very primitive noise. I was proud of him. And, uh-

    12. JRJoe Rogan53:02

        (laughs)

    13. SSSturgill Simpson53:03

        ... the guy didn't come in because of that. And I just sorta went downstairs and kind of swept the ground floor and then he was gone. Um, I didn't wanna freak my wife out, so I waited until the morning to tell her, and then we called the police. Of course, one of the neighbors got it on, like, a ring cam.

    14. JRJoe Rogan53:15

        Oh.

    15. SSSturgill Simpson53:16

        In the back alley, the guy leaving and going down the street. So I had a very clear view of him. And, uh, s- for whatever reason, my wife (sighs) and the kids, they had to go on down to where we actually live. I was working that week in Nashville, probably mixing a record or something, so I had to stay behind. And, uh, as a result of me being home alone that day, I was cleaning and working on a, a firearm I had recently purchased and assembled. And, uh, so went to bed that night, locked everything up and, you know, because they weren't home, I put the gun on the floor (thumping sound) on a padded case next to the bed. So, I'm letting... The next morning, it's like 7:15 AM, the sun is shining, neighbor's going to work, I hear the back door open again. And I was like, "This can't... You know, what the fuck? Is it, like, the maid?" Who would be here that early? And I guess out of paranoia or whatever reason, I grabbed that gun and just went to the top of the stairs to look. I still think it's the maid, and when I hit the top of the stairs and looked down the staircase, (sniffs) same guy, same clothes, just standing in my living room, rolling the cord up on my headphones. And, uh, I was like, "Well, all right." I was almost impressed, one, that he came back, but it was just like I couldn't believe it was happening at this time. And, um, so I started down the stairs on him very quietly and I th- I got about halfway down by the time he, like, turned and saw me. And I was lo- looking through his, at his fucking head through a red dot like a video game. I'll never forget that image of this guy, like...... probably thinking he's about to die. And, uh, the back door was thankfully still open. The only thing I said to him was, "What are we doing here, man?" And I hit him with a strobe, which kind of, like... Probably he, to his brain, was, he thought was the gun going off because he kind of, like, seizured, and then I saw the adrenaline spike. Uh, and he turned-

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:09

        (laughs)

    17. SSSturgill Simpson55:09

        ... and went out the back door and jumped clean off my fucking porch, like never hit a single step, and ran. Uh, the back gate, he had latched it, and I saw this on the video later, when he came in, he shut the back gate back. So he hit that back gate on a dead rant- on a dead run and just, like, blew it to hell. Latches and wood splinters flying-

    18. JRJoe Rogan55:27

        Oh.

    19. SSSturgill Simpson55:27

        ... and then, like, took off down the alley. And I was just- I was still- I was standing on my porch with a fucking, you know-

    20. JRJoe Rogan55:33

        Yeah.

    21. SSSturgill Simpson55:33

        ... looking like a jackass. (laughs) And, and my, like, neighbors are literally walking out of the house, going to work and shit, and I'm just like, "Okay, that happened." And then, uh, so then the next thing, there's, like, eight police officers in my living room. All they wanted to see was my gun, and every single one of them asked me why I didn't shoot the guy. And, uh, which I found very interesting. I was like, "Well, I mean..." And I thought about it, finally. You wouldn't have warned me when I'm down- going down the stairs, you would not believe how much shit can go through your head in, like, four seconds. Like, there, I, I had this whole conversation with myself as to, like, wife and kids aren't here, uh, you know, this guy doesn't even know I'm here yet. I'm holding a fucking assault rifle, and he's not a threat to me. But if I put one through his dome, which I have every legal right to do right now, there's gonna be news vans on my lawn, this is gonna be on your fucking Wikipedia page. (laughs) Like-

    22. JRJoe Rogan56:31

        (laughs)

    23. SSSturgill Simpson56:31

        You know what I mean? Like, all of that, I'm just like, "This guy is not a threat."

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:35

        Yeah.

    25. SSSturgill Simpson56:35

        Um, and thankfully, he chose to go out the door, but all those c- it was just so weird. They were like, "Why didn't you shoot him?" I was like, "Well..." And I said that, and they just kind of looked at me and, uh... And I was, like, and by the, you know, literally by the time we engaged, man, two seconds later, he's running out the door, so what, what, am I gonna shoot him in the back? And then you put me in prison? And they were like, "Ah, fuck, man. Twice in a week? You'd have been fine. We'd have figured something out."

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:57

        Figured something out?

    27. SSSturgill Simpson57:00

        And, uh-

    28. JRJoe Rogan57:01

        Who wants to take that chance? Oh, yeah, yeah, with, uh, life in prison or not? Right. Yeah. Roll the dice.

    29. SSSturgill Simpson57:06

        I mean, if he'd have turned-

    30. JRJoe Rogan57:07

        (laughs)
13. 1:01:38 – 1:34:41

    Touring logistics: announcements, rehearsals, and the grind behind the stage

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:01:38

       (laughs) How many shows are you guys doing?

    2. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:40

       (smacks lips) Uh, we're doing six of these, just as like a conversation starter. But then the real tour will be... Oh, I should probably announce that, they told me to while we were here.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

       (laughs)

    4. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:49

       Uh, we're gonna do a US, full US tour starting mid or late February, and with myself and a young man named Tyler Childers opening.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

       I love that dude.

    6. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:58

       Yeah, we do too.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:59

       Big fan of that dude.

    8. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:00

       Um, so that's happening next year, and those will also tie into, uh, fundraising, Ticketmaster and AEG and everybody participating in that's gonna...

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:02:09

       I was listening to his Purgatory album on the way over here.

    10. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:11

        Were you?

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

        Yeah.

    12. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:12

        Myles and I both fucked around in the room when that got made.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:02:15

        It's great shit.

    14. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:16

        Myles played drums on-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

        It's really good, man.

    16. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:18

        ... most records, right?

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JLJustin Laseck1:02:19

        Yeah.

    19. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:20

        I just stood in the control room and pretended to do stuff.

    20. JLJustin Laseck1:02:24

        (laughs) I can confirm that.

    21. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:27

        Yeah.

    22. JLJustin Laseck1:02:27

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

        That's, uh... So when you do a show like The Troubadour, is it like a knock the rust off, let's fucking start playing tunes live?

    24. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:34

        Well, definitely we haven't played in over a year.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:36

        Right.

    26. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:36

        And we're, we're going back and like working up material. We literally haven't played since we recorded it two and a half years ago. And just to get... We don't really rehearse, we just sort of knock the rust off. It takes us about three or four shows to feel like we even know what the fuck's happening.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:51

        So you guys don't get together before you tour?

    28. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:53

        No. Chuck and Bob both live in Detroit, Myles and I are in Tennessee. Yeah, we, uh, we hadn't seen these guys since October or-

    29. JLJustin Laseck1:02:58

        We, we get a lot done at soundcheck-

    30. SSSturgill Simpson1:03:00

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:37:33