Joe Rogan Experience #1369 - Christopher Ryan

1. 0:03 – 1:02

   Vanthropology: living out of a Sprinter and the freedom of the road

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      And now, the official hello. Hello, Chris Ryan.

   2. CRChristopher Ryan0:06

      Hello, officially.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      What's going on, buddy? How are you?

   4. CRChristopher Ryan0:08

      Everything. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      You distinguished-looking motherfucker. Am I distinguished? Oh, that's- What, what do you think is going on with the, the goatee, the whole deal?

   6. CRChristopher Ryan0:13

      Yeah, it comes and goes. I don't know.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs)

   8. CRChristopher Ryan0:16

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      What have you been up to, man? I've been following your Instagram chronicles. You-

   10. CRChristopher Ryan0:19

       Have you?

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       You, you, yeah. You're traveling the world in a van. What are you doing? (laughs)

   12. CRChristopher Ryan0:22

       Vanthropology, I call it. It's the vanthropology tour. Yeah. Yeah, I love it, man. It's like, uh, you know, you and I have probably spoken about in my 20s, I backpacked all over the world.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CRChristopher Ryan0:33

       Hitchhiked to Alaska a couple times and, you know, did all these adventures. A Sprinter van that you have a bed in and a cooler and a freezer, that's kinda like a backpack for a older, slightly richer dude.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       (laughs) Right.

   16. CRChristopher Ryan0:46

       You know, that's, that's how I look at it. 'Cause you have everything you need with you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Yeah.

   18. CRChristopher Ryan0:50

       Which is a feeling I love. I love just being able to say, "You know what? I'm tired. I'm gonna pull over and sleep right here. And before I do, I'm gonna have a couple of beers and listen to some music." And, you know, it's like everything I need-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CRChristopher Ryan1:01

       ... is right here.

2. 1:02 – 4:00

   Can you drink in your van? Policing, quotas, and how laws “find” people

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:02

      Right. Can you ... What, what is the deal with pulling over in a S- a Sprinter van and drinking? Are there a lot ... You know, like, you're not even allowed to be drunk in the backseat of your own car. You know that?

   2. CRChristopher Ryan1:12

      Yeah, I believe uh, uh, if you have a, a bed, it's considered a domicile.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:17

      Oh.

   4. CRChristopher Ryan1:18

      That's what I've been told. I'm not a legal expert, but-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:21

      Huh.

   6. CRChristopher Ryan1:21

      ... my understanding is that, uh, the front two seats are considered the vehicle, but beyond that, in the back where you have the bed and the, all the stuff-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:30

      Mm-hmm.

   8. CRChristopher Ryan1:30

      ... that's considered your house.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:32

      Oh.

   10. CRChristopher Ryan1:32

       So, a warrant to search is, is the same as, uh, someone coming into your house.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Oh.

   12. CRChristopher Ryan1:38

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       'Cause I, I know a dude who got in trouble because he was drunk in the backseat of his car 'cause he knew he was drunk and so he was like, "I'm not fucking driving. I'm just gonna sleep it off." And he laid down in the backseat of his car, and the cops knocked on the door, and, uh, he opened up the door and he said, "Yeah, I'm drunk, and I'm sleeping off." They arrested him.

   14. CRChristopher Ryan1:56

       That's bullshit.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       Yeah. Well, you know ... Uh, we- uh, co- some cops, they feel like they have to make a certain number of arrests. You know, some places have-

   16. CRChristopher Ryan2:07

       Quotas?

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       Yeah.

   18. CRChristopher Ryan2:08

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       Which is w- ... I've always thought that was so strange. Like, what happens if no one commits crimes? What do they do about the quotas? Do they just make up crimes?

   20. CRChristopher Ryan2:16

       And how do they fill those prisons-

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Right.

   22. CRChristopher Ryan2:18

       ... that are, you know, dependent upon 98% occupancy rate?

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       Yeah.

   24. CRChristopher Ryan2:22

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       They just assume that there's gonna be a certain amount of people that fuck up. Like, what happens if something happens? Some ... I mean, I don't know what it would be, other than a mass consumption of mushrooms across the entire population.

   26. CRChristopher Ryan2:38

       Oh, if people just stop breaking laws?

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       Yeah. Yeah, people just stop.

   28. CRChristopher Ryan2:40

       They'll just pass the law ... I mean, every one of us breaks several laws every day, right? Like, there are laws we don't even know exist that we're breaking.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:47

       Like, what kinda laws do you think?

   30. CRChristopher Ryan2:49

       Oh, God, I don't ... I read an article about this years ago. Um, I- I- t- sh- I, I'd be hard-pressed to, to give you examples right now, but I'm sure there are financial laws. I mean, we're all cheating on our taxes. (laughs) Not me, not me.
3. 4:00 – 7:15

   Invisible rule-breaking: WiFi squatting, terms & conditions, and data as the real commodity

   1. CRChristopher Ryan4:00

      What about every time you click on one of ... You update some software and you click agree, I have read and agree to this?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:06

      Right.

   3. CRChristopher Ryan4:06

      You didn't read that shit. Nobody reads it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:08

      Well, that was one of the things that Snowden talked about yesterday.

   5. CRChristopher Ryan4:10

      Oh, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:11

      Yeah, about the terms and conditions-

   7. CRChristopher Ryan4:13

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      ... that you, you accept, that-

   9. CRChristopher Ryan4:15

      And who knows what's in there-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:16

       Yeah.

   11. CRChristopher Ryan4:16

       ... that then you're not complying with, you know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:19

       But you'd have to have a lawyer go over every piece of it, and then a lot of it is open to interpretation, and they can-

   13. CRChristopher Ryan4:25

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:25

       ... change it at a moment's notice.

   15. CRChristopher Ryan4:26

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:26

       One of the things that you see in terms and conditions is they have the ability to change it without notice, which is like, what ... You know?

   17. CRChristopher Ryan4:33

       (laughs)

   18. JVJamie Vernon4:33

       Get that-

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:34

       Sam Harris had a great podcast with, uh, this guy who was an expert in data collection. He was talking about what's actually happening now is that we have ... There's a commodity, and that commodity is data, and we didn't know it was a commodity.

   20. CRChristopher Ryan4:48

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       And then all of a sudden, these companies like Facebook and Google made billions and billions of dollars off of this commodity that we didn't even know we were giving up.

   22. CRChristopher Ryan4:57

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       And we didn't know that they had it. We didn't know it was valuable. And then, you know, this is their-

   24. CRChristopher Ryan5:02

       And there's no way to protect it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       And it's their business model. Their business model is ... And then th- also their business model is tricking you into clicking on things by getting you outraged. So they're consistently-

   26. CRChristopher Ryan5:12

       Hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:12

       ... bringing up things, whether it's, you know, Trump or abortion or what- whatever it is that, like, gets you riled up, that outrage algorithm-

   28. CRChristopher Ryan5:21

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       ... is gonna find your little soft spot.

   30. CRChristopher Ryan5:24

       Yeah.
4. 7:15 – 12:48

   Human nature is contextual: the H2O analogy and “different people” in different settings

   1. CRChristopher Ryan7:15

      I... And we vary not only individually, but I think we vary, uh... We become different creatures in different conditions.

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:24

      Sure.

   3. CRChristopher Ryan7:24

      So people sometimes will ask me, like, "What's your... You know, what is human nature? What's your opinion, you know, based on these books?" And I say it's like asking what's the natural state of H2O?

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:34

      (laughs) Right.

   5. CRChristopher Ryan7:35

      Right?

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:35

      Is it boiling? Is it ice?

   7. CRChristopher Ryan7:36

      Exactly. What are the-

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:37

      Right. Right.

   9. CRChristopher Ryan7:37

      What's the pressure? What's the altitude?

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

   11. CRChristopher Ryan7:39

       And-

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       Don't you feel like you're different people with different people as well?

   13. CRChristopher Ryan7:43

       Yeah. Yeah, I had a girlfriend, um, a Spanish... She was s- sh- her mother was French, her father was Catalan. She was raised in Spain and then lived in Miami, uh, when she was 13 to 15 or something. So she spoke English really well, Spanish, French, and Catalan perfectly, right? And we were living in San Francisco. And I was high. I was, I was smoking a joint. She was across the room talking to her mom on the phone in French. And then her mom put her dad on the phone, so she switched to Catalan. And, and I was just high enough that I noticed, like, "Wow, that's not Peggy talking two different languages," and then three 'cause she would, like, put her hand on the phone and say, "Ah, my mom said..." da, da, da. So English, French, Catalan. It's not Peggy speaking three languages. Those are three different Peggys.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       Mm.

   15. CRChristopher Ryan8:34

       She's different. Her facial tics and her movements and her body position changed depending on the language she was speaking, right? And at the time, I was in grad school, and, um, I thought, "This is like multiple personality disorder." So I started researching multiple personality, and I g- I sort of came up with this idea that language, in her case, because she learned them all when she was very young, reconfigures the brain in such a way that she actually has different identities in those languages.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       Mm.

   17. CRChristopher Ryan9:08

       And next time we were fucking, I started talking to her in Spanish and she freaked out. She-

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       She got at you?

   19. CRChristopher Ryan9:14

       Yeah, she... (laughs) Like, like I was s- I was a stranger suddenly.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       Whoa.

   21. CRChristopher Ryan9:18

       Yeah. I wa- I just said s- I didn't... You know, I just said, like, "You're beautiful," or something. She's like, "Ah, get away." E- e- es muy guapa.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       Wow.

   23. CRChristopher Ryan9:25

       Eres muy guapa. Like, "Get away from me, you creep." Like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:28

       We-

   25. CRChristopher Ryan9:28

       'Cause our whole relationship had been in English.

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       Mm.

   27. CRChristopher Ryan9:31

       Yeah. Yeah, it was strange. So anyway, so I looked into-

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:34

       (laughs)

   29. CRChristopher Ryan9:34

       ... multiple personality disorder (laughs) . This story has everything. Uh, and y- I don't know if you, if you've checked that out.

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:41

       No.
5. 12:48 – 13:02

   Language, identity, and dissociation: “three different Peggys” and multiple personalities

   1. CRChristopher Ryan12:48

      And we don't know how the fuck that works. We know that hypnosis, people can have open heart surgery under hypnosis, or have limbs amputated, or all sorts of amazing things with no anesthesia whatsoever.

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:59

      Has that really been done?

   3. CRChristopher Ryan13:00

      Oh, yeah. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:01

      Wow.

   5. CRChristopher Ryan13:02

      Yeah.

6. 13:02 – 24:55

   Placebo, hypnosis, and healing: belief as an adaptive tool (and modern vulnerability)

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:02

      Have you ever been hypnotized?

   2. CRChristopher Ryan13:03

      Yeah. But I, I don't have high hypnotic ability.

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:07

      Mm.

   4. CRChristopher Ryan13:07

      That differs, uh, it's another thing that differs among people. And Stanley actually has a really interesting theory, uh, along those lines, which is that in, uh, prehistoric populations, hypnotic ability would be, um, uh, adaptive because a lot of the healing rituals were keying into placebo response. Uh, so if we have a certain ritual, if you're susceptible to the, you know, you believe in that, like voodoo. Uh, there's a-

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      Mm.

   6. CRChristopher Ryan13:38

      ... you know, voodoo death, people die-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:39

      Yeah.

   8. CRChristopher Ryan13:39

      ... when their, uh, spell is cast or occurs.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      They believe it. Yeah.

   10. CRChristopher Ryan13:42

       'Cause they believe it. If you don't believe it, it doesn't happen. So it happens, uh, the opposite direction as well with healing. So his, his idea is that that would've been a very adaptive, um, characteristic in prehistoric societies, whereas in contemporary societies, it's maladaptive.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       Mm.

   12. CRChristopher Ryan13:59

       Because you're more susceptible to advertising or you're easier to manipulate.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       Ah, yeah. Hmm.

   14. CRChristopher Ryan14:04

       Yeah. So I, uh, yeah, I've, I've, uh, when I was in grad school, I had some professors who worked with hypnosis, and I studied it a bit, uh, along the same, around the same time I was looking at multiple personality disorder. 'Cause I was real interested in this question of how the brain and the body interact, how much of, you know, there's all this research showing that people with the same, um, condition in, in hospitals, exactly the same age, same prognosis and all that, they heal significantly faster if their hospital window looks out on trees as opposed to it looks out at another building.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Mm, that makes sense.

   16. CRChristopher Ryan14:42

       Something like that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       Yeah.

   18. CRChristopher Ryan14:43

       Just looking at something like nature-

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       Yeah.

   20. CRChristopher Ryan14:47

       ... keys the body into s- to some sort of energy that, that helps it to heal.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:51

       Completely makes sense. I've met people with multiple personalities. Well, Roseanne, Roseanne's got mul- doesn't she? G- l- make sure that's true. Um, uh, I know another one that's a weird one is, uh, the football player Herschel Walker. I think he had trauma-induced multiple personality disorders.

   22. CRChristopher Ryan15:06

       Wow.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:07

       Does she?

   24. JVJamie Vernon15:08

       There's a article that says, like, Bill B- Bill Maher reminds us she does, and then Roseanne says she doesn't, so...

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:13

       Yeah, I think she does.

   26. JVJamie Vernon15:15

       And then this 2001 says seven, having seven personalities is tough, her saying it, so...

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       Yeah.

   28. CRChristopher Ryan15:20

       Hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       Uh, well, here's the thing about Roseanne, I mean, uh, and I'm, I'm saying this for the tenth time, I guess. She was hit by a car when she was 15, and she was put in a mental institute for nine months afterwards. She had severe brain damage, and she lost her ability to do mathematics, and, like, it really scrambled her brain. And that is p- the, probably the birth of the Roseanne that we know, the comedian. And, um, that's also the case with Sam Kinison. Sam Kinison was also, uh, like a pretty normal kid, and then he was hit by a car, and, you know, pretty severe brain damage as well. And, um, brain damage for w- especially, um, apparently, uh, it has a c- it, uh, especially has an impact on, um, your ability to be, uh, rational and impulsive behavior, it, like, people with brain damage a lot of the times get very impulsive. It's-

   30. CRChristopher Ryan16:11

       Yeah.
7. 24:55 – 35:27

   Pleasure vs discipline: fitness culture, runner’s high, dogs, and the “sex high”

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:55

      Y- you're not a guy that really spends a lotta time working on fitness or-

   2. CRChristopher Ryan24:59

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:59

      ... health or any o- any of those-

   4. CRChristopher Ryan25:01

      That's a nice way to put it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:02

      Well, you, you enjoyed that article-

   6. CRChristopher Ryan25:04

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:04

      ... that I wrote back in the day.

   8. CRChristopher Ryan25:04

      Lazy fuck is what I-

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:05

      I wasn't gonna say that, man.

   10. CRChristopher Ryan25:05

       ... is what you're trying to say.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:06

       I love you.

   12. CRChristopher Ryan25:07

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:07

       But, uh, w- I-

   14. CRChristopher Ryan25:08

       I take it as a compliment.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:09

       (laughs) You enjoyed-

   16. CRChristopher Ryan25:11

       I got better things to do than work out, Joe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       (laughs) I get it. Um, you enjoyed that article that I wrote a long time ago-

   18. CRChristopher Ryan25:16

       I did. The-

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:17

       ... about th-

   20. CRChristopher Ryan25:17

       ... the sand-

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:18

       Yeah, human body's like a sandcastle.

   22. CRChristopher Ryan25:19

       Yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:20

       Like, you, you can make it beautiful, but it's not gonna last.

   24. CRChristopher Ryan25:21

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       It's y- and you know that going in. You know that while you're doing it.

   26. CRChristopher Ryan25:25

       Yeah. And I, uh, and, I mean, I've got this idea for a book, m- m- if I keep writing books, uh, which is sort of a self-help book, but it's a parody of self-help books. And so it'll be, it'll be calling attention to the way so much of what we do to try to be healthy is actually counterproductive 'cause we stress.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:43

       Mm. Yeah.

   28. CRChristopher Ryan25:43

       Especially Americans. Everything's work.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:45

       Sure, sure.

   30. CRChristopher Ryan25:45

       You know?
8. 35:27 – 46:14

   Mob mentality and the “smell in the air”: riots, brawls, and war-mode psychology

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:27

      You know what fascinates me, man? Mob mentality.

   2. CRChristopher Ryan35:30

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:30

      A mob mentality like, uh, like, you know, if there's, like, a riot, uh, uh, like, physical violence-

   4. CRChristopher Ryan35:36

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:36

      ... but in, in a way that you would never, like, there're a lot of people who would never think about hitting someone when people are hitting people all over the place, you'll just dive in. Like, people will dive in and kick people and punch people.

   6. CRChristopher Ryan35:48

      Hm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:48

      It's very weird.

   8. CRChristopher Ryan35:49

      Like bar fights you see?

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:50

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   10. CRChristopher Ryan35:51

       I've, I've never seen one in real life. I've seen 'em-

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:53

       Oh, I've seen a bunch of them.

   12. CRChristopher Ryan35:54

       Have you? Does that happen? People just randomly-

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:56

       Oh, yeah.

   14. CRChristopher Ryan35:56

       ... punching each other?

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:56

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People just punch people. Yeah. I've seen some-

   16. CRChristopher Ryan36:00

       That's bizarre.

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:00

       ... I've seen some pretty chaotic brawls. It's, uh, it's, uh, but there's a strange feeling in the air. It's almost like a smell. You know, like, you, Jim, you're nodding.

   18. JVJamie Vernon36:11

       Yeah, I was in a, at a riot and that, earlier the da- in the day, we s- like, we were like, "The hornet's nest is gonna explode tonight." We kinda felt it.

   19. CRChristopher Ryan36:19

       Hm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan36:19

       What was the premise? What was the-

   21. JVJamie Vernon36:20

       This was, uh, after the Ohio State/Michigan game in, like, 2002. Big Ohio State/Michigan game, I know you don't really understand the football thing of it, but they're, it's a huge day, big event, uh, we won in a very close game, undefeated season for Ohio State so they're headed to the national championship. This then meant s- uh, sofas on fire in the street for, like, the next couple of hours. And then shortly, uh, as the night exploded, uh, there was a couple bonfires in the middle of the street.

   22. JRJoe Rogan36:47

       ... we went, we heard or saw it on the news, so we went close to see it 'cause we were a couple blocks away. As we got close, we heard the knee-knocker bullets getting fired out, so everybody scattered.

   23. CRChristopher Ryan36:55

       Were those rubber bullets?

   24. JRJoe Rogan36:56

       Yeah, from like ... So, w- everyone went from one street on campus to, like, three other streets. Then it started up again. The street I was on, seven cars got flipped over, I think-

   25. CRChristopher Ryan37:06

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan37:06

       ... a- and lit on fire. So people started trying to, like, move their cars so they didn't lose it-

   27. CRChristopher Ryan37:10

       Oh.

   28. JRJoe Rogan37:10

       ... 'cause they're college kids, don't have any money, whatever. A lot of those people got caught on video, s- expelled from school, whatever. But at the end of that street, I was ... uh, we were on it. Uh, we saw all the riot police, the SWAT team, like, lining up. They started firing out tear gas everywhere. A tear gas canister ended up on the porch of the house we were in. Like, exploded in the house almost, so, like, we were all coughing and had to get the fuck out of there.

   29. CRChristopher Ryan37:31

       Wow.

   30. JRJoe Rogan37:32

       Lasted for a couple hours. Like, no one died or anything like that. There wasn't a lot of violence, but just 12 to 15 cars got fucked up.
9. 46:14 – 49:16

   Dunbar’s number and hunter-gatherer accountability: why small groups worked

   1. CRChristopher Ryan46:14

      150.

   2. JRJoe Rogan46:15

      Okay, right.

   3. CRChristopher Ryan46:16

      That's Dunbar's number.

   4. JRJoe Rogan46:17

      Dunbar's number. Yeah. (laughs)

   5. CRChristopher Ryan46:18

      Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you've heard about that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:19

      Yeah, I mean, that might really be it. That might be real- really be what we're programmed for.

   7. CRChristopher Ryan46:22

      Well, that's what hunter-gatherer, that's where hunter-gatherer groups always splinter.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:26

      Yeah.

   9. CRChristopher Ryan46:26

      Where they never get beyond that. And I think that's why because, uh, you know, a hunter-gatherer group, which is egalitarian and sharing and cooperative and all that, uh, by necessity, right? 'Cause that's how our ancestors survived is by taking care of each other, mitigating risk. Um, you need reputational damage. And if everyone doesn't know everyone, reputational damage n- is no longer effective. So, if you ... Let's say you go and you're, you're a good hunter and you kill an antelope and then you don't share it and you just keep it for yourself, that's not gonna go over real well with the hunter-gatherer group.

   10. JRJoe Rogan47:05

       Right.

   11. CRChristopher Ryan47:05

       You're, you're gonna be, uh, ridiculed, chastised, maybe expelled from the group, maybe have a hunting accident and die, uh, because that hoarding, selfish behavior is extremely taboo in a hunter-gatherer society.

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:20

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CRChristopher Ryan47:20

       Whereas, you know, you look at our society, uh, where reputational damage is no longer, uh, functional outside of your group of friends. As long as you're good to your friends, your golfing buddies, you can screw the rest of the world. Yo- you can not pay your contractors for years-

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:38

       Right, right.

   15. CRChristopher Ryan47:38

       ... and become president.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:40

       Right.

   17. CRChristopher Ryan47:40

       You know? Everyone-

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:40

       (laughs) Yeah.

   19. CRChristopher Ryan47:41

       Everyone in New York-

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:42

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CRChristopher Ryan47:42

       I, I worked in real estate in New York in the '80s. Everyone knew who that guy was and what-

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:47

       Right.

   23. CRChristopher Ryan47:47

       ... he was up to and that you couldn't trust him, he was full of shit, and that he ripped everybody off. And, but that's how business works in New York. Even the, the company I was working for, it was really interesting to see how your leverage, uh, increased when you owed somebody a lot of money. You know? There's, there's that-

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:07

       Of course.

   25. CRChristopher Ryan48:07

       ... truism if you owe someone five bucks, you have a problem. If you owe them a million bucks, they have a problem.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:12

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CRChristopher Ryan48:12

       You know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:13

       Right, right, right.

   29. CRChristopher Ryan48:13

       You really see that. But yeah, I th- I think it's 150 is, is the cutoff for how many people we can keep track of, I think. Dunbar's number has proved to be pretty accurate.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:24

       Well, it seems to be what we're, what we evolved-... to, sort of, be accustomed to, right?
10. 49:16 – 54:39

    Audiobooks and author voice: re-recording Sex at Dawn and the “director’s cut” idea

    1. CRChristopher Ryan49:16

       Uh, I'm thinking I might do, uh ... I did the audiobook of Civilized to Death, which I, I really enjoyed that process. I'm thinking I might do a 10th anniversary director's cut audiobook of Sex at Dawn.

    2. JRJoe Rogan49:28

       Did you do the audio version?

    3. CRChristopher Ryan49:29

       No.

    4. JRJoe Rogan49:29

       Who did?

    5. CRChristopher Ryan49:30

       Actors.

    6. JRJoe Rogan49:31

       Oh, yuck.

    7. CRChristopher Ryan49:32

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan49:32

       Oh, yuck.

    9. CRChristopher Ryan49:33

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan49:33

        My friend Steve Rinella, he wrote a book on buffalo, the American buffalo, you know, just the history of buffalo in this country. And, um, someone else wrote it, and he finally got the rights back, and he-

    11. CRChristopher Ryan49:43

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:43

        ... he did it himself now.

    13. CRChristopher Ryan49:44

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:44

        But it just killed-

    15. CRChristopher Ryan49:45

        That's, that's what I'm gonna do.

    16. JRJoe Rogan49:45

        ... killed him because the person who read it w- was, like, a soap opera actor.

    17. CRChristopher Ryan49:50

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan49:50

        Had no connection to the material at all.

    19. CRChristopher Ryan49:54

        And in Sex at Dawn, there's a lot, there are a lot of jokes and, and, you know-

    20. JRJoe Rogan49:57

        Yeah.

    21. CRChristopher Ryan49:57

        ... sort of wry asides and stuff, and the people who read it, they, they don't get it. They didn't get-

    22. JRJoe Rogan50:02

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CRChristopher Ryan50:02

        ... the humor. So it's just the straight ahead ... It's as if, you know, someone took your comedy material and just read it in a monotone. It's like-

    24. JRJoe Rogan50:10

        That's called-

    25. CRChristopher Ryan50:10

        ... come on.

    26. JRJoe Rogan50:11

        ... criticizing me in a blog. (laughs)

    27. CRChristopher Ryan50:13

        (laughs) Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:13

        That's what they do. Someone takes it and just puts it in quotes like that.

    29. CRChristopher Ryan50:18

        Yeah. Yeah, good point. Yeah, there's no delivery there.

    30. JRJoe Rogan50:21

        Yeah.
11. 54:39 – 58:27

    Werner Herzog, Grizzly Man, and the comedy/darkness of obsession

    1. CRChristopher Ryan54:39

       Who else? Have you met Werner Herzog?

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:41

       I have not. No, I'd love to.

    3. CRChristopher Ryan54:41

       Are you into him?

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:42

       Yes, yes.

    5. CRChristopher Ryan54:43

       He's a, he's a character-

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:44

       Grizzly Man is one of my all-time favorite movies.

    7. CRChristopher Ryan54:46

       Yeah. Me too.

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:48

       (laughs) It's one of the best unintentional comedies ever-

    9. CRChristopher Ryan54:51

       (laughs)

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:51

        ... but I don't think it's particularly unintentional. There's a fucking moment in that-

    11. CRChristopher Ryan54:55

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:55

        ... film where the sheriff, when the sheriff's talking about, like, the body and they car- carrying the body off in bags-

    13. CRChristopher Ryan55:00

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:00

        ... he's like, "W- you know, what did you think?" "Well, first time I heard about it, I thought he was retarded."

    15. CRChristopher Ryan55:04

        (laughs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:05

        And then the ca- just has a smash cut to the sheriff's face, and I'm fucking howling.

    17. CRChristopher Ryan55:10

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan55:10

        I'm howling laughing. And I'm like, "This guy did this on purpose." Like, there's so many cuts in this movie that are so humorous-

    19. CRChristopher Ryan55:18

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan55:18

        ... I gotta think that... And Werner Herzog, have you ever heard him on Eric Weinstein's podcast?

    21. CRChristopher Ryan55:23

        No.

    22. JRJoe Rogan55:23

        Brilliant guy. Real-

    23. CRChristopher Ryan55:24

        Oh, yeah, he's-

    24. JRJoe Rogan55:25

        Really interesting, intense guy.

    25. CRChristopher Ryan55:28

        And very dark sense of humor.

    26. JRJoe Rogan55:30

        Oh, yeah.

    27. CRChristopher Ryan55:31

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan55:31

        Yeah. Well, that's why I thought, I was like, "This motherfucker did this on purpose."

    29. CRChristopher Ryan55:35

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan55:35

        "He made this a comedy."
12. 58:27 – 1:03:09

    Closeted identity, Hollywood casting reality, and how culture shapes “acceptable” roles

    1. JRJoe Rogan58:27

       Well, that leap, man, that coming out leap, fuck, it's gotta be so hard for people. I, I know several guys that are closeted, and it's torturous.

    2. CRChristopher Ryan58:37

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan58:37

       Torturous to see. And one of them d- s- you know, I've talked to him. I was like, "Just come out, man. No one gives a fuck. We don't care."

    4. CRChristopher Ryan58:45

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan58:45

       "No one cares. You'll, you'll, it'll be a giant relief."

    6. CRChristopher Ryan58:49

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan58:49

       Just, they worry about... Especially c- you know, actors.

    8. CRChristopher Ryan58:52

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan58:52

       You know, they worry about their careers.

    10. CRChristopher Ryan58:53

        Yeah. Yeah, I mean, wha- (laughs) You know, when your career's more important than the, the integrity of yourself.

    11. JRJoe Rogan59:01

        But I don't think it hurts who- I don't believe it. Uh-

    12. CRChristopher Ryan59:03

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan59:03

        ... I don't believe it. The only thing that would hurt with actors is leading man roles.

    14. CRChristopher Ryan59:08

        Yeah, Rock Hudson kind of guy.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:10

        Yeah, leading-

    16. CRChristopher Ryan59:10

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:10

        That's one thing that's fucking real. Like, if you're a... Like, I don't know if Tom Cruise is gay, but that's always been th- a s- a stupid rumor, right?

    18. CRChristopher Ryan59:18

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan59:18

        Let's, like, let's assume it's true.

    20. CRChristopher Ryan59:19

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan59:20

        If he did come out of the closet, man, nobody wants to go see a movie where he's the leading man and he's got a wife and kids. You'd be like, "That guy's sucking dick!"

    22. CRChristopher Ryan59:27

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan59:27

        Like, he would (laughs) he would, he would never buy into it. That's the w-

    24. CRChristopher Ryan59:30

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan59:30

        Like, a, a gay woman, like Jodie Foster, okay-

    26. CRChristopher Ryan59:33

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan59:33

        ... could easily play a straight woman-

    28. CRChristopher Ryan59:36

        Right.

    29. JRJoe Rogan59:36

        ... in a movie, and no one would care.

    30. CRChristopher Ryan59:38

        Sure. Yeah.
13. 1:03:09 – 1:20:25

    Hunting as responsibility: Hawaii deer & pig hunts, ethics of bows vs rifles, and moving to Colorado

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:03:09

       Really?

    2. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:09

       ... you and I spoke. Yeah. Uh, bow hunting.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:03:12

       You went bow hunting?

    4. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:13

       Yeah. Yeah. Uh, on Hawaii, Big Island.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:03:16

       Oh, you ...

    6. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:16

       I actually went on two trips.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:03:17

       Didn't you go with, uh, Kyle Kingsbury-

    8. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:19

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:03:19

       ... and Ben Greenfield and all those guys?

    10. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:20

        That was a deer, uh, axis deer trip to Molokai.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:03:24

        You have a bow?

    12. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:25

        I do.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:03:26

        How, how do you ... How often do you practice?

    14. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:28

        Uh, since I went hunting, not much, but before I went, every day. Yeah. I was, I was into it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:03:34

        Did you have a coach?

    16. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:35

        Nope. Uh, I had some friends who, you know, uh, helped me out, and, um, I watched some, you know, uh, Cam, your buddy-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:03:43

        Cam Harran?

    18. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:43

        Yeah, I watched some of his videos.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:03:45

        Cam Haines. (clears throat)

    20. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:46

        Um, but, uh, yeah. It was an, it was an interesting experience. So first I went on that, uh, trip with, um, yeah, Peter ...

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:54

        Atia?

    22. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:55

        ... Atia and Ben Greenfield.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:03:57

        Mm-hmm.

    24. CRChristopher Ryan1:03:57

        Like, all these podcast human optimization guys.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:04:00

        Who set, who set that whole thing up?

    26. CRChristopher Ryan1:04:01

        Uh, my buddy Kyle Tirman. He's a big wave surfer.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:04:05

        Oh, okay.

    28. CRChristopher Ryan1:04:05

        Uh, he spends a lot of time in Hawaii, and he knows a lot of people there. Uh, Healey? Geoff Healey, I think?

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:12

        Mm-hmm.

    30. CRChristopher Ryan1:04:12

        Big, big surfer dude. Anyway, so he knew all these people, and I guess, uh, uh, Aubrey and some other ... those guys sort of asked him to hook them up with a trip.

Episode duration: 2:17:49