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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1370 - Brian Grazer

Brian Grazer is a film and television producer and screenwriter. He co-founded Imagine Entertainment in 1986, with Ron Howard. His new book "Face to Face: The Art of Human Connection" is now available: https://www.amazon.com/Eye-Contact-Power-Personal-Connection/dp/1501147722

Joe RoganhostBrian Grazerguest
Oct 24, 20192h 3mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:001:14

    Grazer’s two books and the origin of his “curiosity conversations”

    1. JR

      Three, two... All right, here we go. What's up, Brian? How are you?

    2. BG

      Hey, good.

    3. JR

      Thanks for being here, man. Appreciate it.

    4. BG

      (laughs) Yeah, I'm p- I'm psyched about it.

    5. JR

      I'm psyched about having you.

    6. BG

      Yeah, I'm get... now adjusting to the sound, uh-

    7. JR

      Oh, in your ears?

    8. BG

      Yeah, my ears, and is it muffled? And how's it all sounding?

    9. JR

      No, perfect.

    10. BG

      All right, good.

    11. JR

      Sounds perfect.

    12. BG

      All right, cool.

    13. JR

      So we were just talking about your books, and I tr- I said, "Let's save it. Let's save it for the podcast," 'cause I, I wanted it to sound fresh.

    14. BG

      Okay, yeah.

    15. JR

      I don't want you to re-say it. So tell me about... You, you wrote two books?

    16. BG

      I wrote two books. And, you know, as you know, I'm a, you know, movie writer and a movie and television producer and stuff.

    17. JR

      To say it mildly. I mean-

    18. BG

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      ... you've made some fucking amazing movies.

    20. BG

      Wow, thanks. Thanks, Joe.

    21. JR

      My pleasure.

    22. BG

      Yeah, and, um, uh, in all this, I, I, I think m- you know, uh, my whole life and whatever those stories are, the movies are, and the successes, I kinda think anyone that's really focused can, can do what I do. So that was kinda the end product of the first book, which was, it was called A Curious Mind: The Secret to a Bigger Life. And, um, that book is really about... I mean, how much do you wanna know about it? (laughs)

    23. JR

      Everything.

    24. BG

      Everything.

    25. JR

      Whatever you wanna tell me.

  2. 1:143:02

    Growing up with acute dyslexia: shame, coping, and learning by watching people

    1. BG

      Okay, so basically, I couldn't read at all in elementary school, and it caused a lot of tr- a lot of shame and then a lot of trauma.

    2. JR

      Did you have dyslexia or...

    3. BG

      I had dyslexia, very, ver- quite acute dyslexia.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. BG

      And I think we're out in Woodland Hills, which was the fancy part of the valley. I grew up in the flats of Sherman Oaks, uh, actually as a, as a little kid going to Riverside Drive Elementary School and then later to Nobel Junior High and then later Chatsworth High School. And in elementary school, I couldn't read at all, and they didn't classify it as dyslexia. They- it was just you're slow. You're dumb. You, uh, why can't you answer this? Uh, and then you'd say, "I can't read," and then that didn't make sense. It just didn't c- none of those things computed really that somebody couldn't actually read a word, and I really couldn't read a word. So when you can't read a word, then you find ways to, uh, survive, cope, um, and not have the teacher look you in the eyes and say, "Okay, Brian, come to the board and answer this question." Because you're never g- it's just gonna produce more shame 'cause you're not-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. BG

      You don't know the answer. It's not-

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. BG

      ... possible. So I found that, um, as that went on m- for a little wh- for quite a while, around the fourth, fifth, sixth grade, I really looked at people, I really looked them in the eyes to learn. And I found that by looking somebody in the eyes, you could engage, I didn't know this then, but you engaged their heart. If you're really doing it with sincerity and interest, you can engage people and move them and evangelize things, you know, get people to,

  3. 3:024:46

    Mentorship and “think big”: the grandmother who reinforced belief

    1. BG

      like, play on your team and- or you play on their team. They pick you and stuff (laughs) good things happen, um, except the reading part. Um, but it, it enabled me to learn a lot just by looking at people and talking to people. And my gr- I had this one mentor, this little grandmother. Uh, her name was Sonia. And little Sonia, she's like f- like four 10, I guess, you know? And she would always say to me- she'd see me once a week minimally, always once a week, and she'd say, "You're going all the way. You're gonna make it big. Think big, be big." And she had all these isms because half... my mom's side of the family was Jewish. My dad's side of the family is Catholic. The Jewish side, the grandmother was my mentor and the person that really was the single person that I could kinda count on in life, and she'd constantly tell me how, how things I'd go great. "You have a gift for gab," she'd say. And, and every time she said, "You're gonna go all the way," I'm thinking there's, like, absolutely no empirical evidence I'm going all the way anywhere, you know?

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BG

      Except my parents were always arguing, "Let's put him back." The, the teacher, Miss Stigg, said, "Let's put him back." So I just wasn't going anywhere, I didn't think. So, so that gave rise to me r- uh, gave rise to the fact that I thought the way I can really learn a lot is have these kinda curiosity conversations. And once I graduated college, I did this on a weekly basis and I still do it to this day once a week. Sometimes once every two weeks, but never more than once every two weeks. I never... I'm pretty militant. I'm extremely militant about it.

    4. JR

      Like, how do you do it? Like, what do you mean?

  4. 4:466:41

    How dyslexia works (for him) and the discipline of learning to read

    1. BG

      Um, well, what I do is I think about... It's often... And I, I, I know you do something possibly similar to this and, and, and... but my system would be I bombard myself with... Now I can read, of course (laughs) , um, and I was able to start to read, like, in high school.

    2. JR

      Can you tell me how they fixed that? Like, how-

    3. BG

      They couldn't fix it. It's not-

    4. JR

      So how do you learn-

    5. BG

      It wasn't fixable.

    6. JR

      ... how to... Dyslexia reverses words on you, right?

    7. BG

      Uh-

    8. JR

      It reverses the way you view letters and-

    9. BG

      Y- yeah. Well, it scr- initially-

    10. JR

      Scrambles?

    11. BG

      ... as a kid, it scrambles the letters. Then when it gets better, it reverses the words. And to this day, I still start on the right and go to the left. So it takes, like, really thoughtful discipline to make sure I'm always starting on, on the left.

    12. JR

      Do you mean with sentences or with words?

    13. BG

      With the sentences. With the sentences.

    14. JR

      Really? So you'll start at the right end of a... You should read Hebrew or something. Isn't that-

    15. BG

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      Isn't it go right to left?

    17. BG

      Chinese or something-

    18. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. BG

      ... I guess.

    20. JR

      Different languages do that, right?

    21. BG

      Yeah, I guess they do. Um, but incidentally, when you have dyslexia, it's very hard to learn other languages.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm. I would imagine.

    23. BG

      So very, very hard. So, um, but I can read and I bombard myself on-

    24. JR

      So how do you switch it around?Like when-

    25. BG

      Well-

    26. JR

      ... when your- your brain is making you read right to left-

    27. BG

      Yes. Um, I- I- I started to lear- just create, like, just, like, an exercise, a discipline, where I could m- like, in co- as in college, I was able to read... I could force myself to start on the left and go to the right.

    28. JR

      Is there a certain mechanism that's causing you to do right to left? Like, do they know what the cause of this is?

    29. BG

      (smacks lips) Not that I know of.

    30. JR

      Hmm.

  5. 6:4114:18

    The weekly one-on-one ‘curiosity conversation’ system (a private podcast)

    1. JR

      So you learned how to read, you learned how to figure it out, and then you said you- you have these conversations at least once every two weeks.

    2. BG

      Yes.

    3. JR

      So, how do you do this? Like, what do you... Do you organize them? They're structured?

    4. BG

      They're structured. They- they s- they're- they see... There's a randomness to them, because often you have to... I- I have to... It's not like getting on your show, where everybody wants to be on the show. (laughs) Uh, I say that with a compliment, of course. But I- I'm begging people, because even though-

    5. JR

      To sit down with you.

    6. BG

      I'm begging them to sit down with me, and I'm groveling, and, uh, I'm calling assistants directly. I still... I have three assistants, but I make all of my own ph- phone calls, always. You know why? Because I have this discipline of getting to know assistants and going-

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. BG

      ... "Hey, it's Brian. Is Richard around?" Or... And I just, like... I do that.

    9. JR

      Well, that's so refreshing from a guy-

    10. BG

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      ... who is as successful as you are-

    12. BG

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... because so many times when people get that successful, you insulate yourself with a bunch of other people who do all the calls for you and open all the doors for you, and you just kinda... You stay insulated and m- more aloof.

    14. BG

      Yeah. Tha- Well, thank you. Thanks. Well, I... Yeah. They d- People do... I mean, look, there are producers that are sort of... that are s- you know, let's say we're in the same category or same ilk-

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. BG

      ... um, that just do it differently. I- I made v- a lot of deliberate choices through trial and error. I saw... I went through the '80s, where power guys had desks above the s- other chairs that are on the other side. I-

    17. JR

      Mm.

    18. BG

      The power guys always had black lacquer f- furniture. Uh, they did all these power things.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. BG

      And I thought, "I want to re- I want artists to like me, relate to me," and I always did everything to create a democratic environment. Because not that I was such a cool guy, but more like you just get so much more out of a creative person-

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. BG

      ... by not intimidating them.

    23. JR

      Sure. Yeah.

    24. BG

      And I just saw, you know, my peers, and sometimes- often, you know, someone maybe a decade ahead of me, you know... I- I don't want to s- I'm so close to saying names, but- but just those sort of tough guys, you know.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. BG

      Um, (smacks lips) and I- I didn't think that was, uh, effective. I just didn't think it was effective. And I wasn't making these really hardcore action movies. I was doing movies that were... They were designed to emite- i- ignite emotion-

    27. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    28. BG

      ... and feeling. In fact, even when I, uh, do public speaking, I say, "Oh, uh, they know Brian Grazer's there," or whatever they might say, but I go s- I'm- I always say, "I'm in the feelings business." I'm not a movie producer to... I'm just a... I'm in the feelings business, because I feel like that's what we want out of a cinematic experience for- for me-

    29. JR

      Sure.

    30. BG

      ... for- from the movies, uh, I'm interested in doing, or TV shows. Is that... Uh, so, um, because I- I- I- I grew up loving those movies of the '70s, and I'm captivated by things that move me emotionally and elevate me emotionally.

  6. 14:1816:32

    Chasing obsession and excellence: Nobel laureates to Uber drivers

    1. BG

      Yes. Exactly. And, and, um, and maybe you do this too, but I, I've found ... I mean, I do meet a lot of people. I, I reach out to meet people that are, you know, expert, um, at s- many different things that I, that I don't do, of course. But sometimes I just, I become really motivated just to meet somebody because they're so uniquely committed to something.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. BG

      Like, they're so obsessed.

    4. JR

      Yes.

    5. BG

      Um, and I've even found that ... I've learned a lot from Uber drivers and baristas and stuff, where, uh, I, I, um, y- so I, I, I ... But I do reach out to meet, you know, people that have really had a very intense, committed to a really intense journey-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. BG

      ... and often have triumphed in it.

    8. JR

      Yeah, that's very contagious-

    9. BG

      Yeah, it is.

    10. JR

      ... like, the kind of energy that those people exude.

    11. BG

      Yeah. It, it is. It's, uh, inspirational too, isn't it?

    12. JR

      Yes. Yeah, yeah.

    13. BG

      Because like, even, uh, who was it? Josh ... You might know this guy. Josh Waitnick.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. BG

      Okay. The guy that was the subject of Searching for Bobby Fischer.

    16. JR

      Yeah, the chess master.

    17. BG

      The chess master-

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. BG

      Who now is like a martial art-

    20. JR

      Jujitsu martial. Yeah.

    21. BG

      Exactly.

    22. JR

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    23. BG

      And he was able to like succeed in both templates or formats, right?

    24. JR

      Yeah. Did we say his last name right?

    25. BG

      Uh-

    26. JR

      Waitkins? Is that it? How do you say it?

    27. BG

      I thought it was Wait ... I don't know.

    28. JR

      Uh, it's, uh-

    29. BG

      Waitnick?

    30. JR

      Wait- he's, uh, he's a student under Marcelo Garcia, who's-

  7. 16:3220:27

    Jay-Z’s work ethic and turning a festival into a story about genius

    1. BG

      'Cause I don't really think of it, you know, that, you know, these sort of creative puzzles that way. I, you know, a creative puzzle would be like, uh, you know, a movie, or a TV show, or a documentary, and you know, I could, I could go on. And, but you're ... Okay, well, uh, Jay-Z asked me, um, 'cause I knew Jay-Z because he wa- was very obsessed with wanting to do the soundtrack to a movie called American Gangster, which I produced.

    2. JR

      Great movie. Love that movie.

    3. BG

      Did you? Thanks.

    4. JR

      Loved it.

    5. BG

      Oh great, thanks. I, I like that one a lot too, but ... So um, and I said, a- as much, you know, a- a- as, as impressed as I am with Jay-Z and his level of, you know, mastery himself, I said, "Look, we've already done the entire score. I mean, you can't do it. It's been done." He said, "Well look, I, I feel a kinship to, uh, Frank Lucas," who was played by Denzel Washington, who's a d- ends up being a drug dealer, like the biggest heroin dealer in, in America at the time (laughs) , um, and head of like his own mafia that he creates. And so anyway, the bottom line is, he feels this kinship to him, he wants to do this, he's very dedicated. I say, "It's already done. As much as, you know, superstar you are and how great you are." And he said, "Look, I will do a second album. I don't have to be the primary album that's on the screen. I'll do a second album." And I said, "But I only have three weeks." He goes, "I will do the whole thing in three weeks." And he did it.

    6. JR

      Whoa.

    7. BG

      And I went and saw him. He did the singing, he did the writing, he did ... he en- engineered it. He did every single thing. So the guy that's the king of hip hop, he goes to work. And I was really blown away because, uh, he still, you know, ha- he has that grit in him. And ...... and it turned out to be, like, for real hip hop lovers, they really liked this album. I guess it was, um-

    8. JR

      Everybody loves everything he does, though.

    9. BG

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      When was the last time Jay-Z put out something that was shit?

    11. BG

      Uh, he (laughs) doesn't-

    12. JR

      Right?

    13. BG

      ... really, yeah. He's kinda brilliant, actually. He's, um, yeah.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. BG

      So he doesn't-

    16. JR

      That's amazing.

    17. BG

      He's a brilliant marketer. He's a f- when he s- he says things that are very insightful. So, he wanted to do, um, after that, he, he, we got to know each other, and then he said, "Hey, I'm gonna do, uh, I wanna, I wanna do a festival. A, a, a festival with 24, 22 different artists, and all different types, and it's gonna be in Love Park, and it's called, we're calling it Made In America. Would you produce it?" And, and I said, "Yeah." And I knew that Ron Howard could get a chance at directing it, and I thought it would be really good for Ron to be around Jay-Z. That's a good thing for him. It's a good, he's got a good aura, and the right one for Ron. And I thought, well, so we joined him. And I said, "What is this about? You know, what's the premise?" And he said, "It's about democratization of, of music itself. There's no record stores anymore. And, and the walls are down. You could, you know, you can get, you know, there's a crossover between hip hop and, uh, y- y- you know, trance music, and all that stuff." So, and I thought that was kinda cool, and then I said, "Have you ever seen this movie called, um ..." Because it didn't have a story, th- this concert. And I said, "Did you ever see Amadeus?" He goes, "I never def- seen Amadeus." And I said, "Well, it's about genius." And, uh, he asked about it and he goes, "That's what the premise of this will be." And he immediately thought, had this idea that it should be every artist, every human being has a little bit of genius in them. And he made, made it very relatable. And that became the thesis of what this documentary became, and he only had that, like, a week before we were shooting.

    18. JR

      (laughs) Wow.

    19. BG

      So it was kinda remarkable.

    20. JR

      That's pretty remarkable.

    21. BG

      Yeah.

  8. 20:2721:36

    Recording the conversations (sometimes): Admiral McRaven and modern tools

    1. JR

      So, you've been doing this for 35 years and you haven't recorded any of these, these conversations you've had with people?

    2. BG

      Okay. You're, you're, I'm gonna be stay, uh ... In the last 10 years, I've s- I've recorded some. And sometimes I do FaceTimes and they allow me to. Like, w- uh, Admiral William McRaven, who I really wanted to meet, you know, that Navy S- the Navy SEAL that, uh, um, created SEAL Team Six-

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. BG

      ... and just recently, sort of, sp- o- doesn't speak out publicly but had a point of view about the president and the whole Oval Office and stuff like that.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. BG

      And, um, and he's a, he's a really amazing guy. But I said, "Can I FaceTime you?" 'Cause that was the only way ... So if somebody can't meet with me, I now say, "Would you Skype with me or FaceTime?" At the time I started, there weren't, that did- the tool didn't exist.

    7. JR

      Right. So you would fly to them-

    8. BG

      I'd fly to them.

    9. JR

      ... and just kind of have these conversations?

    10. BG

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      That's so amazing that you've had this commitment to do this.

    12. BG

      I have this com- yeah, I do. I feel it's a really im- yeah. I mean, it's important to my life and, um, I just, it's like a, a hobby that you're completely-

    13. JR

      Yeah.

  9. 21:3628:52

    Failure as fuel and the craft of staying present under pressure

    1. BG

      ... committed to doing. And it's, it's, for me, eh, I- I'm a person that gets better. I can get better all the time. I'm open every minute of every day for self-improvement. Like, if you said, "Brian, did you think ..." If you gave me a, a, a, a note about this experience or something and you said, "You know, you'd probably be better if you did it this way," I, I'd, if I could integrate it or assimilate it, I would then do it.

    2. JR

      Good for you. That's a beautiful attitude.

    3. BG

      Well, I f- I know how fallible I am. I'm just-

    4. JR

      We all.

    5. BG

      (laughs) Yeah.

    6. JR

      All of us, if you're human.

    7. BG

      If you think, yeah.

    8. JR

      Yeah. It's just, that's part of being us.

    9. BG

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. BG

      So you embrace that-

    12. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    13. BG

      ... yourself too. Yeah.

    14. JR

      Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to. Constantly seeking self-improvement.

    15. BG

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      Yeah. The, the, the big pr- the big problem is holding yourself prisoner to the mistakes of the past. Don't do that.

    17. BG

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      And, and just constantly looking to get better at anything you're trying to do.

    19. BG

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      And, uh, I think having these kind of conversations like you're talking about will make you a, a better, more thoughtful person too.

    21. BG

      Yes.

    22. JR

      You know, 'cause it, it gives you a level of communication with human beings that, it just, it's very rare.

    23. BG

      Yes.

    24. JR

      In this world, very rare that you get to sit down across from someone. And sometimes I have these conversations with people where there's no one around, like, you know, the back bar at The Comedy Store. We-

    25. BG

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      ... sitting there with a buddy and we'll just sit, sit there. No one's around. Just he and I will just shoot the shit for an hour and a half, two hours, no one around, just talking. And, like, those, those are rare moments where you're not distracted, where you can just talk about things and you have ideas, and someone brings something up and you consider it, and then you add your own thing, and then they consider that. And then you just go back and forth and you get a better understanding of each other.

    27. BG

      Yeah. I, I agree with you. I, I, it's amazing that you're able to do it and get away (laughs) with it.

    28. JR

      Yeah. Yeah.

    29. BG

      I mean, see we're both sounds like open-minded to if ... As long as we're kinda disrupting our comfort zone, I think, and, and being open-minded to that, you're, you're then being open-minded to, like, the value of human error. (laughs)

    30. JR

      Yes, yes. Oh, yeah, the value of human error. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah.

  10. 28:5255:02

    Brian’s daughter’s jiu-jitsu injury and recovery (rear naked choke to strokes)

    1. BG

      I bet. Yeah. And I'm just imagining it as you say it, uh, because I don't know that much about jujitsu. I've gone to some fight, uh, you know, some fights that, a friend of mine, Ari Emanuel. (laughs)

    2. JR

      Oh, yeah. Okay.

    3. BG

      Um-

    4. JR

      Owns the UFC.

    5. BG

      The UFC guy.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. BG

      Yeah. So he's a really good friend and my daughter's obsessed with, uh, she's obsessed with martial arts.

    8. JR

      Yeah?

    9. BG

      Jujitsu. She trains. (laughs)

    10. JR

      Hmm. That's cool.

    11. BG

      It's not what she does for a living, but she trains and she loves the community of people.

    12. JR

      Yes.

    13. BG

      She, she got injured, pretty seriously injured and then she, she didn't want to be indulgent, but I said, "Look, just I'll pay for you to start back early and you can just do one-on-ones." Which, 'cause she didn't wanna-

    14. JR

      W- how'd she injure herself? W-

    15. BG

      S- she got like (sighs) choked off from the back. I don't know how that-

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. BG

      And it, um-

    18. JR

      Her neck?

    19. BG

      Yeah. It created a stroke in her.

    20. JR

      Whoa.

    21. BG

      Yeah. It, multiple strokes in her brain, but it didn't, um, affect any part of her intellectual capacity. But it, it was really, it was pretty s- (laughs) it was very serious.

    22. JR

      Did she get... So she got caught in a rear naked choke?

    23. BG

      Yeah. That's right. Yes.

    24. JR

      Yeah. And the choke-

    25. BG

      Which, again, I don't know-

    26. JR

      ... gave her multiple strokes. I've never-

    27. BG

      Yes.

    28. JR

      ... even heard of that before.

    29. BG

      I will t- let you, I will-

    30. JR

      It's crazy.

  11. 55:021:00:29

    From A Curious Mind to Face to Face: eye contact as dignity in a lonely digital age

    1. BG

      So, uh, so there's that, and, uh... (laughs) And so the other book I wrote, because this kind of ties in. You'll... This is kind of interesting, um, 'cause you asked actually. So what happened is, in my house, there was a new person that started working on our, you know, uh, like, our staff at home kind of thing. Um, and, uh, you know, like, you know, working on the house staff kind of thing. I don't have, like, a c- I'm not like butlers. I'm not gonna, I'm not-

    2. JR

      What, what do you mean by house staff?

    3. BG

      (clicks tongue) Just like we have a l- we have people that, you know, housekeepers-

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. BG

      ... you know, that either cook, or they clean, or they... But it's a team. I have a team.

    6. JR

      Okay.

    7. BG

      There's a team. (laughs) Yeah. But I don't want to mislead you and make you think like I'm living in, like... You know, it's not insane.

    8. JR

      Uh, this is what I'm picturing. I'm picturing a dude with a, a napkin-

    9. BG

      No.

    10. JR

      ... over his forearm.

    11. BG

      No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

    12. JR

      "Mr. Grazer."

    13. BG

      That's what I don't... No, please, don't. Uh, yeah, it's not that. I'm glad that you pointed that out.

    14. JR

      And then he gives you your top hat.

    15. BG

      No, no.

    16. JR

      You put your top hat on. (laughs)

    17. BG

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, top hat, and gets my tux ready every night.

    18. JR

      You get into the Rolls-Royce, and they throw rose petals at your feet.

    19. BG

      (laughs) Yeah, yeah, Thirstin Howl. No. (laughs)

    20. JR

      Hello.

    21. BG

      Yeah. No, it's not that. It just, it's just, like, an organized place. So-

    22. JR

      I get it. You're balling. It's all good.

    23. BG

      It's something. And so she, apparently, she'd worked there. (laughs)

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. BG

      So (laughs) that's funny. So, so apparently, she worked at our house for, like, al- almost three months. And my wife's... She says to my wife, "I really like Brian a lot." And my wife said, "Well, gee, have you talked to him much?" She said, "Well, I haven't talked to him very much, but every time he speaks to me, he always looks me directly in my eyes, and it makes me feel like a human being." And I thought of the simplicity of that.

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. BG

      I thought, "Wow, just by looking at somebody directly in the eyes, with real... Not looking beh- behind them or you're just looking at them, it immediately is an equalizer." It says, "We're both equal." We're, we're th- both species on this planet, the same species on this... And it makes me feel like a human being. Gives me dignity.

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. BG

      And then I thought, "That's pretty powerful." I mean, this is only, like, two years ago. And then I retrofitted back all of those conversations I was alluding to, like, 35 years of every week a curiosity conversation. And I thought, "Well, the only reason these conversations were good is I must have been really looking at these people in the eyes, and we were really dialed in. Otherwise, they wouldn't share these private things or these insights. They wouldn't share their heart with me if they didn't feel I was present with them."

    30. JR

      Right.

  12. 1:00:291:11:57

    Phones, attention, Adderall culture—and the weed/edibles detour

    1. JR

      For sure. I've, um... Uh, the last week, I put a one-hour limit on my phone use.

    2. BG

      Oh, wow.

    3. JR

      Yeah. I put a one-hour limit on whether, whether it's apps per day.

    4. BG

      Per, per day, you mean?

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. BG

      Per day, yeah.

    7. JR

      Yeah. Apps, whatever-

    8. BG

      Yes.

    9. JR

      ... whatever I'm using. And-

    10. BG

      That's a good idea.

    11. JR

      ... I've thought about using the ph- like, thought about looking at the phone aimlessly-

    12. BG

      Yeah, you shou-

    13. JR

      ... and not.

    14. BG

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      You know, I've got this thing now that I'm doing where I just grab my phone. I go, "No, no, no," and then I put it away.

    16. BG

      Huh.

    17. JR

      I just... 'Cause people are really, really addicted to phones.

    18. BG

      They're really addicted.

    19. JR

      And you don't realize until you look at that f- screen time-

    20. BG

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      ... that reading that you get at the end of the day, and you're like, "Five hours?"

    22. BG

      (laughs) I'm sure I'm in that... (laughs)

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. BG

      Maybe four. (laughs)

    25. JR

      A lot of us are.

    26. BG

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      But this, that digital connection, the connection to d- you're missing, you're missing this connection to other people, and it also, there's a certain amount of anxiety attached to it where people are constantly checking their social media and checking, checking their-

    28. BG

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      ... their emails and their mentions and, and going back and forth with this and that and looking at this and that.

    30. BG

      Yeah.

  13. 1:11:571:27:44

    Sober October and building non-wishy-washy discipline (Whoop, sleep apnea, fasting)

    1. JR

      Well, this is Sober October for me, so I'm not doing anything.

    2. BG

      Oh.

    3. NA

      Can you do that?

    4. JR

      Yes.

    5. NA

      I guess you can.

    6. JR

      Yeah, yeah. I'm not, I don't have an, an, an addiction.

    7. NA

      Right.

    8. JR

      But me and my buddies-

    9. BG

      It's a choice. You dig it.

    10. JR

      Yes.

    11. NA

      And it's fun.

    12. JR

      And we do-

    13. NA

      And you and your buddies are cool with it.

    14. JR

      Yeah, we do Sober October. So-

    15. NA

      Okay.

    16. JR

      ... the entire month of October every year we do something. Um, like last year we did a fitness challenge.

    17. BG

      What's that thing? It's like Ramadan. (laughs)

    18. JR

      Yeah, it's like Ramadan for us. (clears throat) And the year before that we did, uh, hot yoga. We had to do 15 hot yoga sessions over the month.

    19. BG

      Jeez.

    20. JR

      And this year we have to do 10 classes of any kind and we have to read 500 pages of any book.

    21. BG

      Wow.

    22. JR

      Yeah, so we do it. Like to test yourselves and stuff. Yeah, but just, it, and it's fun.

    23. BG

      In a cool way. Yeah.

    24. JR

      And people join along. And this year we're, we're all wearing these Whoop straps, so everybody-

    25. BG

      What is a Whoop strap?

    26. JR

      A Whoop strap is a, it's, it's, uh, a fitness monitor that's, it works with-

    27. BG

      Mm.

    28. JR

      ... this application that works on your phone that, uh, it monitors heart rate variability. So it, uh, tells you h- first of all it tells you how much you're sleeping, which is very revealing.

    29. BG

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      It tells you what kind of sleep you're getting, and it j- it gives you like very detailed analytics. It shows it. And-

Episode duration: 2:03:49

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