Joe Rogan Experience #1382 - RZA & Donnell Rawlings

1. 0:02 – 4:57

   Launching Donnell’s podcast: creative format ideas and producer banter

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Boom. Okay. So, now that I'm the producer of the Donnell Rawlings Podcast-

   2. DRDonnell Rawlings0:06

      We already established that.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      ... we established that.

   4. DRDonnell Rawlings0:08

      Yes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      We've taken off the RZA.

   6. RZRZA0:10

      Yeah. I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      Sir, thank you for being here.

   8. RZRZA0:11

      Thank you. I'm gonna give him a, a beat-

   9. DRDonnell Rawlings0:14

      Man!

   10. RZRZA0:15

       ... as is, uh-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       He's gonna be, uh-

   12. DRDonnell Rawlings0:16

       Yo.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:16

       ... you're gonna have music.

   14. DRDonnell Rawlings0:17

       I'm, I'm... Yo, this-

   15. RZRZA0:19

       It gon' be hip-hop.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       From Hip Hop Royalty.

   17. DRDonnell Rawlings0:19

       Yo. First off, I... When you said that, I'm saying, I got a button down too. Don't just assume it's all hip-hop.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       (laughs)

   19. RZRZA0:26

       Man.

   20. DRDonnell Rawlings0:26

       You s- that, that was insulting. You know, not hip-hop. I would love any genre if you have a vision, or you see, or even connected to this at all, whatever you feel, I fucking gotta feel it.

   21. RZRZA0:37

       Bonga, bonga.

   22. DRDonnell Rawlings0:37

       And I'll make it work.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       W- I think your idea of driving around talking shit is a great one.

   24. DRDonnell Rawlings0:42

       I figured-

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I like when Bill Burr did a podcast doing that. He basically-

   26. DRDonnell Rawlings0:44

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       ... did like, these little video things doing that. But Driving with Donnell is a great idea. Or even just you... Don't limit it. Do whatever the fuck you want.

   28. DRDonnell Rawlings0:51

       I'ma do-

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       One day you wanna drive, drive.

   30. DRDonnell Rawlings0:53

       ... I s-
2. 4:57 – 7:25

   Talking to yourself as growth: Bhagavad Gita, contemplation, and the ‘voice in your head’

   1. RZRZA4:57

      But there's a scripture on that, bro.

   2. DRDonnell Rawlings4:59

      What is it?

   3. RZRZA5:00

      The scripture is in the Bhagavad Gita.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:02

      Ooh.

   5. DRDonnell Rawlings5:02

      Is that the Quran?

   6. RZRZA5:03

      No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:03

      No.

   8. RZRZA5:05

      No.

   9. DRDonnell Rawlings5:05

      I don't know. I don't-

   10. RZRZA5:06

       That's what... I know the Quran is the Quran.

   11. DRDonnell Rawlings5:07

       All right. I just need to know.

   12. RZRZA5:09

       The Bhag- so the Bhagavad Gita-

   13. DRDonnell Rawlings5:10

       Spell it.

   14. RZRZA5:10

       ... which means the song of God. Just put GITA, Gita. The Gita, right?

   15. DRDonnell Rawlings5:15

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RZRZA5:15

       It's actually the words of Krishna. And he says, "Contemplation with yourself," which is talking w- with yourself, "will take you further than praying."

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       Ooh.

   18. RZRZA5:27

       Okay? And if a man is not contemplating, right? If you're not-

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:31

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RZRZA5:32

       ... whether you're doing it verbally, like right now, we talking out loud. We all got that voice in our head.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       Yeah.

   22. RZRZA5:38

       You have that voice. He was like, "Yo, should I put the condom on or not?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       (laughs)

   24. DRDonnell Rawlings5:42

       That joint ain't that loud no more though.

   25. RZRZA5:44

       Right?

   26. DRDonnell Rawlings5:44

       I feel you. I... We been there.

   27. RZRZA5:45

       You have that voice-

   28. DRDonnell Rawlings5:46

       Right.

   29. RZRZA5:46

       ... and, and, you know, if you, you listen to it or you don't listen to it, right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:49

       Right.
3. 7:25 – 8:50

   Ancient epics, UFO vibes, and pronunciation jokes: Mahabharata detour

   1. RZRZA7:25

      I was about to say that he talk about, well, well, the Mahabharata, which is the longer version of the, the Bhaga-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:29

      Yeah.

   3. RZRZA7:30

      So the Bhaga, so the Bhagavad Gita is about 700 verses that's taken out of the Mahabharata, which is one of the longest, it's not the longest poem, but it's in the top 10.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:38

      How do you say it? Is it Mahabharata? How do you say it?

   5. RZRZA7:41

      Yeah, you might have... That B is in there.

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:43

      Yeah, something-

   7. RZRZA7:43

      I don't know if that B is silent, you know? (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:44

      Yeah, that's the one with all the A's and Q's and-

   9. RZRZA7:46

      (laughs) I ain't never, I only know words that got a silent B. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:48

       Yeah. Mahabharata. That's the whole, that's, that's crazy stories.

   11. RZRZA7:51

       Yeah.

   12. DRDonnell Rawlings7:51

       What word has a silent B? I never even know those word existed.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:54

       Mahabharata. A silent B? No, there's gotta be in there.

   14. RZRZA7:58

       It is something like that, right?

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:58

       That, that B makes noise, right? But it's, uh... There's Vimanas in that, right? Where there's flying crafts. There's a bunch of-

   16. RZRZA8:07

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:07

       ... weird shit that people throughout history-

   18. RZRZA8:09

       Lasers, bing, and lightning.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:09

       ... tried to figure out what the fuck are they talking about?

   20. RZRZA8:11

       Yeah. And, uh, k- you know, that ancient civilization was measuring what they call kappas every 35,000 years, you know. And they were saying, you know, you know, he-

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:22

       Measuring coppers?

   22. RZRZA8:23

       Yeah. No, like, that's w- that's wha- that's, like, K-A-P-P-A, like capadonna.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:27

       Oh.

   24. RZRZA8:28

       Like kappa.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Oh.

   26. RZRZA8:29

       I got a tendency to... I w- I, I wanna just make a disclaimer real quick. I have a tendency to pronounce words the way I pronounce them.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       (laughs)

   28. DRDonnell Rawlings8:37

       I have a tendency to listen and understand the words the way you pronounce them, son.

   29. RZRZA8:40

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:40

       (laughs)
4. 8:50 – 13:57

   Who ‘spit a 16’? Rap culture, white rappers, and hip-hop’s inclusive roots

   1. DRDonnell Rawlings8:50

      Joe said he never spit a 16, son.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:53

      Ugh.

   3. RZRZA8:53

      Oh, you never spit a 16?

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:54

      No, I didn't. I'm very white.

   5. DRDonnell Rawlings8:56

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:56

      Eight? No.

   7. RZRZA8:58

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:58

      No, man. He, I didn't even know what he's talking about. I had to, like, go over it with him.

   9. DRDonnell Rawlings9:01

      Tell him the bars you said you spit.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:02

       Oh, uh, what did I... I said hip hop, hypnotic... No.

   11. DRDonnell Rawlings9:05

       (laughs) Oh, he wanted you to class him.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:06

       That's not exactly what happened.

   13. DRDonnell Rawlings9:06

       Yo, he needed a classic.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       He was asking me about Sugarhill and I said, "Yeah, I remember that," and then I started singing it.

   15. DRDonnell Rawlings9:11

       I don't think I was asking you about Sugarhill, son.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       (laughs) I think we talked about it.

   17. DRDonnell Rawlings9:14

       No, no, no. I wish I could remember exactly.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:16

       Did he? Didn't he? I think you did.

   19. DRDonnell Rawlings9:17

       We got, we went to Sugarhill after a, after a period of time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:19

       Yeah, you asked me if I knew.

   21. DRDonnell Rawlings9:21

       Yeah. No, no, this is what I said. "You ever spit 16?"

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:23

       Okay.

   23. DRDonnell Rawlings9:23

       You was like... This is what you told me, Joe. You said, "I don't have time to spit 16."

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       No, I don't have any time to rap.

   25. DRDonnell Rawlings9:29

       This is what you said.

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:29

       I don't.

   27. DRDonnell Rawlings9:29

       No, you said, "I have much better things-"

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       I said I enjoy it?

   29. DRDonnell Rawlings9:32

       You said... Joe, you said-

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:33

       I enjoy listening to it. I don't have time to do it.
5. 13:57 – 16:53

   Is hip-hop evolving? Sampling, originality, melody, and genre blending

   1. DRDonnell Rawlings13:57

      Do you think, do you think hip-hop is evolving and not just... 'cause is it evolving, um, in a sense of the creativity of it?

   2. RZRZA14:09

      I think it, it's definitely creative.

   3. DRDonnell Rawlings14:09

      'Cause people, they got a situation now where it don't have to evolve amon-... people have found a way to make money off of something that people may not agree with, that's like hot. But do you think hip-hop is evolving?

   4. RZRZA14:20

      Yes. It, it always evolve, right? So it's... part of the evolution we're seeing now is whereas we, in my generation, we relied on music that was created before us, because we went to... we came in a time when they took music programs out of school, right? So you didn't learn how to play a guitar, piano, g... And, uh, your music equipment or your instrument became your turntables. It became your drum machine.

   5. DRDonnell Rawlings14:45

      Right.

   6. RZRZA14:45

      Eventually became our sampler. And then we sampled a lot of songs or a lot of breaks from old records that already existed.

   7. DRDonnell Rawlings14:53

      Right.

   8. RZRZA14:53

      Right? But this generation, right? They're not actually forced to sample. They actually could take their keyboard, their drum machine, their laptop, and just create.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      Hmm.

   10. DRDonnell Rawlings15:04

       And on their phone, too, yeah.

   11. RZRZA15:05

       Yeah, and on their phone, and just create the beat, right? And so now, that beat has no, uh, historical reference to it in the sense of, "Oh, that was a James Brown sample."

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:13

       Mm.

   13. RZRZA15:14

       "That was a Marvin Gaye sample." No. This, just... that's just th- that kid who, whether he did Fruity Loops and threw some chord progressions together, or whether he sat there on his garage band on his phone and, and, and hit the guitar program (laughs) that comes with it-

   14. DRDonnell Rawlings15:26

       Right.

   15. RZRZA15:27

       ... or whatever, the creativity of it is now having this form of originality, right?

   16. DRDonnell Rawlings15:32

       Right.

   17. RZRZA15:33

       Now, of course, once something like that happens, there's a formula. So we keep hearing that same formula exist right now.

   18. DRDonnell Rawlings15:39

       Right.

   19. RZRZA15:39

       But I think one of the greatest evolution of hip-hop, right? Is... and, and, and, as ev-... I'm gonna use the word evolution loosely, because when I think about the Cold Crush brothers and the Force MDs, they did this anyway in the beginning. But hip-hop has become more melodic now than it did in the '90s and the early 2000s, right? So what I mean by that, you know, rappers now, you know, you know, "I'm just OD-ing. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, la, di." Like, it's-

   20. DRDonnell Rawlings16:11

       Right.

   21. RZRZA16:11

       ... it's all melody, it's all-

   22. DRDonnell Rawlings16:12

       Right.

   23. RZRZA16:13

       ... you know, it's all chanting, right? Uh, it has the reggae chant vibe to it. When we was doing it, "I smoke on the mic like Smoke and Joe Frazier, the L laser."

   24. DRDonnell Rawlings16:22

       Right.

   25. RZRZA16:22

       It was all aggressive chop rap, you know what I mean?

   26. DRDonnell Rawlings16:24

       Right.

   27. RZRZA16:24

       So, so to see that it, it evolves to this melodic form, and then you look at Kanye. He's now took it to gospel.

   28. DRDonnell Rawlings16:32

       It's melodic as hell right now.

   29. RZRZA16:34

       Snoop took it to the Snoop Lion.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       Yeah.
6. 16:53 – 20:46

   Viral chaos: the ‘pussy-eating preacher’ and sex in nature (cunnilingus to eagles)

   1. DRDonnell Rawlings16:53

      But church even different now. You got fucking pussy-eating preachers now.

   2. RZRZA16:57

      What do you... what you mean now?

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:58

      What?

   4. DRDonnell Rawlings16:58

      No, no, I'm just saying, like, viral.

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:00

      (laughs)

   6. RZRZA17:00

      (laughs)

   7. DRDonnell Rawlings17:00

      No, I'm just... no, I'm sorry. (laughs) I didn't know.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:02

      What's going on?

   9. DRDonnell Rawlings17:03

      I didn't know they had this one... you been eating pussy, son?

   10. RZRZA17:07

       You been eating pussy, son? Wait, hold on. Say that again.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       What happened? You know what's going on?

   12. RZRZA17:08

       No, no. Oh, uh, uh, I don't know exactly what's going on.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       (laughs)

   14. DRDonnell Rawlings17:10

       Yo, yo-

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       (laughs)

   16. RZRZA17:11

       Say that again slow, brother.

   17. DRDonnell Rawlings17:12

       The pussy-eating preacher.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Oh.

   19. DRDonnell Rawlings17:14

       There was a-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       What is that, a pep-

   21. DRDonnell Rawlings17:15

       Jamie, google it. Google it, son.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       (laughs)

   23. DRDonnell Rawlings17:17

       It was like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:18

       Sounds like a children's book.

   25. DRDonnell Rawlings17:18

       ... I'm pretty sure pre- pre- preachers been eating pussy for a while.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       (laughs)

   27. DRDonnell Rawlings17:21

       But this one got caught on camera and he went viral, son.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       He got caught on PornHub?

   29. DRDonnell Rawlings17:24

       And like, they-

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:25

       (laughs) What PornHub? (laughs)
7. 20:46 – 25:33

   RZA’s kung fu origin story: movies, poverty, and the birth of Wu-Tang inspiration

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:46

      When did you ... When did you get into kung fu movies?

   2. RZRZA20:48

      Wow. I got into those, like ... I saw my first kung fu movie I think at the age of nine. Right?

   3. DRDonnell Rawlings20:54

      Wow.

   4. RZRZA20:55

      And, you know, that was probably only my third movie experience.

   5. DRDonnell Rawlings20:58

      (laughs)

   6. RZRZA20:59

      Only 'cause, you know-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:00

      Right.

   8. RZRZA21:00

      I mean, nowaday- you know, you can see movies anywhere. Back then in, in, uh, early '70s-

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:04

      You had to go somewhere.

   10. RZRZA21:05

       ... you had to go somewhere and ... Listen-

   11. DRDonnell Rawlings21:07

       Or you had to have a tape.

   12. RZRZA21:09

       Or ... No, no, no. No tape.

   13. DRDonnell Rawlings21:10

       VHS.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:10

       No tape?

   15. RZRZA21:11

       No, no. This, this before VHS. I'm talking about-

   16. DRDonnell Rawlings21:13

       Damn.

   17. RZRZA21:13

       ... going to the movies, like-

   18. DRDonnell Rawlings21:15

       And actually seeing this shit.

   19. RZRZA21:16

       My first movie ... Let me, let me give you a little bit movie history for the ￭￡. First movie I ever saw was, um, Huckleberry Finn.

   20. DRDonnell Rawlings21:23

       Wow.

   21. RZRZA21:24

       Okay? Down South, my cousin took me to the movies. I was maybe six or seven years old. Second time to the movie theater, second time, uh, my Uncle Hollis took me, uh, it was a double feature. It was, um, um, Star Wars and The Swarm. Right? Uh, which is ... And, and listen to how all this stuff affects my life. The Killer Bees, The Swarm, Wu Tang Killer Bees.

   22. DRDonnell Rawlings21:47

       Right.

   23. RZRZA21:48

       Third time to the movie theater, right? Or third or fourth time, 'cause I saw Rocky and then I saw, uh, a double feature starring Bruce Lee, which was called The Fury of the Dragon, and another movie called Black Samurai starring Jim Kelly.

   24. DRDonnell Rawlings22:04

       Oh, man. That was the shit.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:06

       Oh.

   26. RZRZA22:06

       And once I saw ... Look, once I saw that-

   27. DRDonnell Rawlings22:08

       Yo, that nigga, he's fucking motherfuckers up.

   28. RZRZA22:11

       ... say that-

   29. DRDonnell Rawlings22:11

       I'm saying.

   30. RZRZA22:11

       Yeah.
8. 25:33 – 32:24

   Veganism, discipline, and food culture: RZA’s diet timeline and Donnell’s ‘struggle plate’

   1. DRDonnell Rawlings25:33

      So do true vegans give a fuck about vegan for the health of it, or for actually what it's doing to animals and shit?

   2. RZRZA25:39

      Both.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:39

      Both.

   4. RZRZA25:39

      For sure.

   5. DRDonnell Rawlings25:40

      Really?

   6. RZRZA25:40

      Yeah.

   7. DRDonnell Rawlings25:41

      So you give a fuck-

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:42

      You have two camps.

   9. DRDonnell Rawlings25:42

      You give a fuck about like, how-

   10. RZRZA25:43

       People who share.

   11. DRDonnell Rawlings25:43

       ... how chickens are slaughtered and shit, is the reason?

   12. RZRZA25:46

       I mean, yeah. To be honest with you, bro, I just, uh, you know, I just hit you with this right here. The reality of how I feel. No animal needs to die for me to live. Okay? My son turned 14 this year. Never had a piece of meat in his life. Okay? He could do eight pull-ups right now. Okay? My oldest son haven't had meat in his life. He can bench over 200 pounds. Okay? Uh, 6'2", eight pack, play gu- guitar, piano, great memory.

   13. DRDonnell Rawlings26:23

       And he never had no hot dogs or nothing?

   14. RZRZA26:24

       Never had a hot dog.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:25

       (laughs)

   16. DRDonnell Rawlings26:25

       He ain't never had a hot dog?

   17. RZRZA26:26

       He never had a, he never-

   18. DRDonnell Rawlings26:27

       He ain't never had a hot dog?

   19. RZRZA26:29

       He never had one.

   20. DRDonnell Rawlings26:29

       Hold on, he ain't never had a hot dog?

   21. RZRZA26:29

       He ain't never had one.

   22. DRDonnell Rawlings26:29

       You ain't never tell-

   23. RZRZA26:30

       Hold on.

   24. DRDonnell Rawlings26:30

       He ain't never... You think he never, ever had a hot dog?

   25. RZRZA26:33

       Listen-

   26. DRDonnell Rawlings26:33

       How old is he, 18?

   27. RZRZA26:34

       Listen.

   28. DRDonnell Rawlings26:35

       How old is he, 18?

   29. RZRZA26:36

       21.

   30. DRDonnell Rawlings26:36

       21.
9. 32:24 – 1:06:11

   Food-history rabbit hole: Kellogg’s anti-sex cereal, Pepsi’s Black marketing, and Coca-Cola’s coca leaves

   1. RZRZA32:24

      The Food That Made America. Anybody watch that yet?

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:27

      No, what is it?

   3. RZRZA32:28

      Yo, they-

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:28

      Food Channel?

   5. RZRZA32:29

      No. It's, uh, maybe it's the History Channel or one of them stations, but they go into the, uh, Hershey Company, the Mars-

   6. DRDonnell Rawlings32:37

      Oh, is that the same people that did the Men That Made America?

   7. RZRZA32:40

      Yeah, yo.

   8. DRDonnell Rawlings32:40

      It's a A&E docuseries. I didn't know, I didn't see that one.

   9. RZRZA32:42

      Yo.

   10. DRDonnell Rawlings32:42

       But that right, that one about the men that made America?

   11. RZRZA32:45

       Yeah.

   12. DRDonnell Rawlings32:45

       I gotta watch it. Go ahead.

   13. RZRZA32:46

       Yo, the-

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:46

       Did they cover Kelloggs?

   15. RZRZA32:48

       They covered Kelloggs, yo.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:49

       (laughs)

   17. RZRZA32:49

       Check out how Kelloggs started, yo.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:51

       (laughs)

   19. DRDonnell Rawlings32:51

       I got a story for you.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       It's a great one.

   21. DRDonnell Rawlings32:52

       I got a story for you didn't know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       Tell the story about how-

   23. DRDonnell Rawlings32:54

       I got a story-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       Here it is.

   25. DRDonnell Rawlings32:54

       ... for you to know why black people like Pepsi.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:56

       But hold on, let him tell the Kellogg's story because you're not even going to believe this.

   27. RZRZA32:59

       Okay. Kelloggs started because he's just a doctor with a little, uh, they call it sanitory? What they call it when-

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:05

       Sanitarium.

   29. RZRZA33:06

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:07

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:20:58