Joe Rogan Experience #1403 - Forrest Galante

Joe Rogan 0:00 (singing) And (snaps fingers) what's happening, brother? How are ya?

Forrest Galante 0:05 Hey, Joe. I'm good, man.

Joe Rogan 0:05 Good to see you, man.

Forrest Galante 0:06 It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 0:07 I've been following your exploits on, uh, social media and, uh, the yellow caiman.

Forrest Galante 0:12 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:13 Dude, that is a wild-looking creature.

Forrest Galante 0:16 Isn't it? It's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 0:17 And it was thought to be extinct?

Forrest Galante 0:18 Uh, yeah, so this one's... It's a little confusing. It, um... It's a species that was last seen in... When the last one died in a zoo in the '80s, and because of the region that it occupies in Colombia, which has always been controlled by FARC rebels, nobody had been back down there to look for it. And, uh, myself, and there's actually this amazing Colombian scientist named Sergio Riena, were both kind of going and, and prodding and trying to see if we could get in, and, and we both found it within a month of each other.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Oh, wow.

Forrest Galante 0:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:44 Now, it's a... It was a beautiful-looking creature. Look at that thing.

Forrest Galante 0:47 Right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 Such a wild, green, yellow color. So wild-looking.

Forrest Galante 0:52 It's u- super unique. I mean-

Joe Rogan 0:54 Dude, you're just holding that thing by the neck?

Forrest Galante 0:56 Yeah. We just had a little wr- wrestling match, him and I, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00 You don't even have body control. Don't you wanna take mount here, maybe get a back mount, get some hooks in?

Forrest Galante 1:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 1:06 No, he was, he was good at it. You know, reptiles, they tire out, so they're not like mammals.

Joe Rogan 1:10 Oh.

Forrest Galante 1:10 Um, once they expend all their energy, that's kind of it. Um, but yeah, absolutely amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:15 D- Are they similar to regular crocodiles or alligators in that they don't have to eat for, like, a year?

Forrest Galante 1:21 Yeah. The... So, caiman... I mean, caiman don't have the... as slow of metabolism as certain other species, but they are... They're a member of the alligator family, so to speak, and they can go very long times without food.

Joe Rogan 1:33 What a crazy animal. Like, looks like a monster.

Forrest Galante 1:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:37 I mean, look at-

Forrest Galante 1:37 Look at it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:38 ... the teeth on that thing. Swallows things basically whole, just-

Forrest Galante 1:42 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:42 ... spins to take chunks off of things, swallows 'em whole, doesn't have to eat for a year, can go underwater for how long without holding its breath?

Forrest Galante 1:50 It's, like, 40, 45 minutes, some of them.

Joe Rogan 1:52 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 1:52 Yeah. Some species, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53 (laughs) So you have no idea it's there.

Forrest Galante 1:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54 It's just waiting for you. And they're fairly small, right? There's, like, a 90-pound animal when it's fully grown, a caiman?

Forrest Galante 1:59 Uh, well, these ones, it's so little is known about this particular species of caiman that it's hard to say. I would say, yeah, 100 pounds is probably about right.

Joe Rogan 2:07 There's a, uh, great photo, Jamie, from the Nature is Metal, um, Instagram page from yesterday of-

Forrest Galante 2:14 That page is nuts. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:15 I love that page.

Forrest Galante 2:15 I love it too. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:16 I love that page. There's a great one of, uh, a jaguar with a caiman in its mouth.

Forrest Galante 2:21 There is.

Joe Rogan 2:21 That one. Look at the eyes on that fucker.

Forrest Galante 2:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Now, go f- g- l- expand. Look at that.

Forrest Galante 2:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:27 Oh! Thing of nightmares.

Forrest Galante 2:28 (laughs) Look at those fangs right in the throat.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 2:30 Like, just death grip.

Joe Rogan 2:32 Just...

Forrest Galante 2:32 And, uh, you can see that, that caiman is death rolling in that scene, right? It's trying to get away.

Joe Rogan 2:37 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 2:37 It's rolling, and that jag is just locked in.

Joe Rogan 2:40 The eyes on that thing, my God.

Forrest Galante 2:42 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 2:43 It's like nature has created... Like, in those kinda eyes, th- that's the perfect... That's the, the perfect vision of terror.

Forrest Galante 2:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:51 Like, those eyes.

Forrest Galante 2:52 Totally.

Joe Rogan 2:52 Like, if you're locked into those eyes, like, there's no forgiveness. There's no emotions. There's just ferocity-

Forrest Galante 2:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:00 ... and aggression and death.

Forrest Galante 3:02 I- It seems like nothing but testosterone is behind that, you know what I mean? Testosterone's probably the wrong, "wrong" chemical, but it just seems so-

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yes.

Forrest Galante 3:09 ... focused and motivated, and like you say, it's just... It looks like death.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Yeah, I'm sure there's some testosterone involved in that equation too, but there's a bunch of other cat shit-

Forrest Galante 3:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:17 ... in there.

Forrest Galante 3:18 Totally, literally. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:19 It's like... And they have... Apparently, the, the, the thing in the caption was saying that the caiman has one of the greatest bites per pound-

Forrest Galante 3:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:26 ... of any of the big cats, and they regularly eat these-

Forrest Galante 3:29 The jag, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Uh, j- jaguar, rather-

Forrest Galante 3:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:31 ... has one of the greatest bites, and it regularly eats these, uh, these caimans.

Forrest Galante 3:35 Yeah. No, they're amazing. And, and, you know, back to the one that we found, it's so great because, like, I'm the hide-and-seek guy, right? Like, I look for them.

Joe Rogan 3:43 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 3:43 And now there's this scientist, Sergio Riena, down in Colombia who's gonna manage that species' ongoing existence.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Oh, wow.

Forrest Galante 3:48 So it's, it's really cool.

Joe Rogan 3:49 So w- what is involved in that, like, managing their existence? What does he...

Forrest Galante 3:53 I mean, you know, it's wildlife management, so it's-

Joe Rogan 3:56 Right.

Forrest Galante 3:56 ... it's getting proper population dynamics, trying to understand them genetically, figure out what their food source is, figure out how much hunting pressure they can take or-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 4:02 ... cannot take. Those kinda-

Joe Rogan 4:04 Right.

Forrest Galante 4:04 ... things. And that's not my department, you know? I, I, I go in and look for them. That's someone like Sergio, who's in the field, lives in Colombia, can work with the species. It's really cool.

Joe Rogan 4:12 I remember there was a documentary about this guy who was a scientist who was obsessed. It was a biologist, and he was obsessed with, uh, the giant sloth.

Forrest Galante 4:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:21 And he was spending all of his time down in the Amazon. He'd been down there for years, and, uh, th- the, the, the documentary was following him at this stage where he was getting really frustrated and not sure if he's wasting his career.

Forrest Galante 4:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:33 Like, there was this feeling, like, "Fuck, this thing might not be real."

Forrest Galante 4:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:36 Like, 'cause they would tell him, "Yeah, I saw it. It was over the hill." You know?

Forrest Galante 4:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:39 And, and, and he's like, "Uh, you sure you saw it?"

Forrest Galante 4:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:42 And they would... You know, they'd bring these people in. They would speak their native tongue, and they'd have this discussion of this thing that they saw-

Forrest Galante 4:47 Yep.

Joe Rogan 4:47 ... two years ago.

Forrest Galante 4:48 Yep.

Joe Rogan 4:48 It was big like a bear, you know?

Forrest Galante 4:50 Walks on its hind leg.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 4:51 M- megatherium, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 4:52 They're, uh... I... We discussed this briefly last time I saw you, I think.

Joe Rogan 4:55 Right.

Forrest Galante 4:55 It's funny. We got straight back to the same, (laughs) same wildlife stuff. Um, but yeah, no. It's... Who knows, right? Who knows if it's still out there. There's definitely ongoing reports, so much so that... I forget what university, but some university actually launched an, uh, an expedition to try and find the megatherium, so-

Joe Rogan 5:11 Really? Recently?

Forrest Galante 5:12 It's not... Uh, I'd have to look it up. Probably 10 years ago now.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Oh.

Forrest Galante 5:15 Not that long ago, but, but, you know, if an academic institution is putting resources behind an expedition like that, there's a lot of faith and maybe even intel that they're not releasing publicly to say this animal's still here.

Joe Rogan 5:27 Wow. That would be crazy. Like-

Forrest Galante 5:29 Wouldn't it?

Joe Rogan 5:29 ... how big was a giant sloth?

Forrest Galante 5:31 Uh, well, there's a couple varieties. Like, the... There was a North American one that was enormous, like bigger than a grizzly bear.

Joe Rogan 5:36 Wow.

Forrest Galante 5:37 Um, yeah. But, so from what I've been... what I've heard, what I've read, you're talking about something that stands 14 foot tall walking around the Amazons like, like this.

Joe Rogan 5:45 14 foot tall, like-

Forrest Galante 5:46 When erect.

Joe Rogan 5:47 ... bigger than a Kodiak grizzly?

Forrest Galante 5:48 That's what the reports say.

Joe Rogan 5:51 That's... You gotta take everything with a grain of salt, but all right.

Forrest Galante 5:53 Exactly. I mean-

Joe Rogan 5:54 People say-

Forrest Galante 5:54 ... you gotta take their existence with a grain of salt.

Joe Rogan 5:56 Like, but this page, whatever this page is, "A Bigfoot Cousin?" (laughs)

Forrest Galante 5:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:59 What the fuck is this page? And look up there, "Megalodon Sightings. Is the Megalodon Shark-"

Forrest Galante 6:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:03 "... still alive?"

Forrest Galante 6:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:05 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 6:05 And straightaway, that's, like, discrediting, right?

Joe Rogan 6:07 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 6:07 You're like, "Okay." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:09 What is this website you pull up there?

Forrest Galante 6:11 There's a article from June about... just lots of information about them. It's not even saying, like, it exists. It's just saying-This is all the information we have about this, uh-

Joe Rogan 6:21 This animal?

Forrest Galante 6:21 ... Map and Guari sightings.

Joe Rogan 6:23 People love finding undiscovered or mythical creatures that turn out to be... Like the, uh, Tasmanian tiger.

Forrest Galante 6:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:31 Like, that's a perfect example.

Forrest Galante 6:33 Yep.

Joe Rogan 6:33 Like people l- they love to try to f- what is it, thylacine or something?

Forrest Galante 6:37 Thylacine, yep.

Joe Rogan 6:37 People love to try to find that thing.

Forrest Galante 6:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 6:39 Like the idea that it's out there, it's like, what is it about people where it's so compelling to find a species that we were... we thought didn't exist or we thought was extinct, like whether it's Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster or the thylacine which we know used to be real?

Forrest Galante 6:55 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 6:56 It's...

Forrest Galante 6:57 I, I mean, what do you think? I think that people que- you know, they long for the unknown, and there's this big question mark surrounding cryptids or surrounding extinct animals as to whether it's still out there, and that's so much more inviting to the general... uh, to the general populace to get an answer to than knowing, "Oh, you know, there's 700 of them left and we're trying to get them up to 1,400," or whatever the species dynamic is for some other animal, as opposed to being like, "There could be one out there."

Joe Rogan 7:24 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 7:24 "Where is it?" And I personally, I've been on two different expeditions looking for thylacine.

Joe Rogan 7:28 Really?

Forrest Galante 7:28 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did one in Northern Australia up north of Cairns, and then one I spent, uh, a couple weeks in Tasmania with a amazing biologist, Nick Mooney, who, uh, he's adamant that he's seen thylacine and he's a biologist. This isn't... You know, someone who worked as a biologist that was out in the wilderness going, "Yeah. Yeah. I've seen thylacine." And he was terrified to tell everybody, and that's, that tells me that it's more credible, right?

Joe Rogan 7:53 Oh.

Forrest Galante 7:53 If you're scared to tell people because of your reputation as opposed to like going out there going, "I saw it. I saw it. I saw it."

Joe Rogan 7:59 Right.

Forrest Galante 7:59 That becomes more credible than the people who are just waving their arms in the air going, "I told you it's here."

Joe Rogan 8:04 When did he come out of the thylacine closet?

Forrest Galante 8:06 Uh-

Joe Rogan 8:06 Like were you scared to tell people? When did... Oh, God.

Forrest Galante 8:09 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:09 I gotta go public with this.

Forrest Galante 8:11 Um, I'm not sure if, if he told us first or if it was public, uh, right before then, but not long ago. I mean, maybe 10 years ago.

Joe Rogan 8:20 Yeah. It's such a cool looking animal too, because it, it was a marsupial tiger, right?

Forrest Galante 8:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:24 Or a marsupial predator or whatever.

Forrest Galante 8:26 It's like a marsupial wolf m- with tiger stripes. It's so bizarre and it had this amazing, um, jaw that would open like, like a snake's.

Joe Rogan 8:34 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 8:34 Like way wider than its head should. Stripes on the back. Um, just such a cool animal.

Joe Rogan 8:39 Yeah. And the last one died in a zoo, right? The la- the last one that we think.

Forrest Galante 8:43 Yep. In Hobart, in Tasmania.

Joe Rogan 8:45 Wow.

Forrest Galante 8:45 But let me, let me lay this on you. So my next expedition, um, for that animal, 'cause I- I'm like all those other people that are kind of obsessed with it. My next expedition for that animal is to Papua New Guinea. So this species... Yeah, that's right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:59 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 8:59 This-

Joe Rogan 8:59 Wow.

Forrest Galante 8:59 This species used to range all the way from Papua New Guinea down through mainland Australia and into Tasmania. When people came over and settled that area, they brought with them dogs, dingoes. And dingoes out competed them in mainland Australia and possibly in Papua New Guinea 4,000 years ago, but the, the thylacine remained in Tasmania where there are no dingoes to out-compete them. But in mainland Australia you've got a diversity of habitats, so there are places the thylacine could still hide. But in Papua New Guinea, the terrain is so crazy that the idea is that in certain regions dingoes could have never made it there. So perhaps there's these isolated regions where thyla- very small thylacine populations continued for the past 4,000 years.

Joe Rogan 9:41 Have there been sightings?

Forrest Galante 9:43 Many, but just the same kind of sightings as a giant sloth. You know what I mean? It's all hearsay.

Joe Rogan 9:47 Oh. People are so full of shit.

Forrest Galante 9:48 Yes, they are.

Joe Rogan 9:49 It's so- so- such a problem if... y- y- gonna be a guy like you actually looking for species.

Forrest Galante 9:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:54 You know?

Forrest Galante 9:55 You gotta, you gotta wade through so much bullshit, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:58 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 9:58 It's just... And it's funny because one thing can discredit the entire story that maybe it shouldn't because they're embellishing or s- or you can be on the hook for someone's story and be like, "I totally believe this guy. It's- it's all real." And it could be complete BS, and there- it's just so hard to tell. You just have to go with instinct.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Oh, God.

Forrest Galante 10:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:17 But it is incredibly compelling. I mean, if you really did get an ab- absolute photograph of a thylacine and you- you knew it was real or- or captured one.

Forrest Galante 10:26 Yeah. I think, I think it would be the, you know, discovery of the century, and I think it would kind of shift the scales for people that are on the fence about, "Eh, why do I care about conservation? Why do I care about wildlife management?" You know, those kind of things, to be like, "Check this animal out." Something that, you know, last saw when we put a bounty on its head and now it's back, like it's hung on by a thread. Like that's such a message of hope, you know.

Joe Rogan 10:50 It is a message of hope, yeah.

Forrest Galante 10:50 "Let's save it. Let's bring it back." Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:53 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 10:53 You get the idea.

Joe Rogan 10:53 Well, the- the whole environment in Australia is so strange and now because of the wildfires, you know, there's a lot of species, like that was... We were just talking the other day about the koala bears.

Forrest Galante 11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:03 That the, uh, koala bears, a lot of their habitat got burnt in, uh, a lot of these fires. It's really sad to see-

Forrest Galante 11:08 Really sad.

Joe Rogan 11:08 ... koala bears are on fire and they're like singed.

Forrest Galante 11:10 And they're like losing their fur. It's awful.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Yeah. It's... They're such a little cute little animal.

Forrest Galante 11:14 They are. But, um, and I don't have a lot of firsthand experience with them (laughs) , but my understanding is they're actual jerks. Like-

Joe Rogan 11:19 Really?

Forrest Galante 11:19 ... they're really cute and cuddly looking, but their behavior is pretty aggressive and jerkish, and I don't know enough about them to really comment on it. But my understanding is it- it's kinda like sea otters, right? Do you know about this thing with sea otters?

Joe Rogan 11:32 What about them?

Forrest Galante 11:32 So like everybody loves sea otters. They're so cute. They're so cuddly.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Right.

Forrest Galante 11:36 Sea otters are super destructive. They rape each other.

Joe Rogan 11:39 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 11:39 Like they're- they're like gnarly animals. (laughs) They're like not that sweet at all. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:44 (laughs) Isn't that the thing with pandas too? Like pandas are ruthless.

Forrest Galante 11:47 Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 11:47 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 11:48 But you look at them and you're like, "Oh, I wanna cuddle it."

Joe Rogan 11:50 Adorable.

Forrest Galante 11:50 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:51 Little sweetie pie.

Forrest Galante 11:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:53 My, um, youngest daughter is really into polar bears.

Forrest Galante 11:56 Oh yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:56 She thinks polar bears are adorable and she wanted to get like a stuffed polar bear.

Forrest Galante 12:00 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 12:00 And, uh, I find it so fascinating that that animal, which is the most ruthless of all bears-

Forrest Galante 12:06 For sure.

Joe Rogan 12:06 ... we, we associate with Klondike Bars and Coca-Cola.

Forrest Galante 12:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:09 It's everybody's buddy and they're sliding around in the snow, and I almost wanna like show her, like this is what they do to seals, you know?

Forrest Galante 12:18 Right. Go up, go up there and just watch one get torn to shreds. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:21 (laughs) Just show a video. Just I wanna show her. I know she's not looking at... Yeah.

Forrest Galante 12:24 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:25 Like that picture. There's this image of this seal and these... they all have red faces from-... blood. What, what did they ever ... Did they ever figure out that one polar bear that was in Russia that had been sprayed, it said like T-34 on it? You see it in that image right there?

Forrest Galante 12:41 Oh.

Joe Rogan 12:41 See that one, Jamie?

Jamie Vernon 12:42 Mm. I don't know about that.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Right there. Someone had spray painted a T and the number 34 on the side of a bear's body, and they don't know what happened.

Forrest Galante 12:53 That's extremely ballsy to spray paint a polar bear.

Joe Rogan 12:56 How did they do it? And then, the real concern is that this bear is going to have a real hard time hunting-

Forrest Galante 13:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:02 ... because they're gonna be able to see it much better because of the fact that it has this spray paint on the side of it.

Forrest Galante 13:08 Huh. I've never, I've never seen this story before. It's really interesting.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Yeah. They don't know, they have no idea what happened. Here it is, "Russian scientists search for polar bear with black T-34 spray painted on its side: 'Cruel joke can turn deadly for predator now too visible for both prey and poachers.'"

Forrest Galante 13:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:25 Yeah. I mean, do they have a hard time with pro- ... They, they have a, um, a real issue with certain towns in Siberia that are like on the outskirts where polar bears are invading.

Forrest Galante 13:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:34 And they have like dozens of polar bears entering their towns.

Forrest Galante 13:36 They, they, they've even evacuated towns because of so many polar bears-

Joe Rogan 13:40 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 13:40 ... being there from what I've heard. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:43 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 13:43 Would you imagine just having an army of polar bears roll into town?

Joe Rogan 13:46 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 13:46 You know, you have a town of like 150 people and in come eight polar bears one day. It's like, what, what can you do?

Joe Rogan 13:52 There's nothing you can ... You gotta get out.

Forrest Galante 13:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:54 Either you're gonna kill them, you're gonna shoot them with rifles, or you're gonna get out.

Forrest Galante 13:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:57 You probably should just get out.

Forrest Galante 13:58 Yeah, you should get out.

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 13:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:59 I mean, it's ... Polar bears are a strange an- ... Like, bears in general are a strange animal because people love them because we grew up with teddy bears.

Forrest Galante 14:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:06 And we see Yogi and there's l- ... Like, they're so lovable-

Forrest Galante 14:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:10 ... on television and in the movies.

Forrest Galante 14:12 Yep.

Joe Rogan 14:12 And so, people have this idea of them, like they wanna take bear selfies, like, "Hey-"

Forrest Galante 14:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:16 ... "take a bear selfie." Like, how many people get jacked taking bear selfies?

Forrest Galante 14:20 Yeah. No, that's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 14:21 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 14:21 I, I, I have been contacted by people being like, "Hey, why don't you, like, not pose with wildlife? Because it's influencing other people to do that." I'm like, "I'm a biologist. It's my jo- ..."

Joe Rogan 14:30 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 14:30 "I don't have another option here." (laughs) Like, "I have to pose with wildlife."

Joe Rogan 14:33 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 14:33 Like, "I'm working with it." Like ...

Joe Rogan 14:35 You're supposed to ta- ... You are the guy-

Forrest Galante 14:37 I'm the guy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:38 ... supposed to take pictures. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 14:39 Right. Like, "Maybe instead don't do what I do." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 14:43 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 14:43 Don't just jump out and try to get a selfie with something that's gonna kill you. (laughs) Like, it's common sense.

Joe Rogan 14:47 Yeah, that whole idea of, like, that what you're doing is influencing people to do the same thing, like, all right. What ... You know, come on.

Forrest Galante 14:57 Yeah, I think it's nuts. I mean-

Joe Rogan 14:58 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 14:58 ... you know, how many pages on Instagram are there where people are chugging vodka-

Joe Rogan 15:02 Yes.

Forrest Galante 15:02 ... and jumping off roofs and slamming tables and all this other stuff?

Joe Rogan 15:05 Oh, yeah.

Forrest Galante 15:05 Is everybody looking at that being like, "Hey, I'm gonna jump off a roof onto a table"?

Joe Rogan 15:08 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 15:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:08 There's so many of those pages.

Forrest Galante 15:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:10 There's so many of those videos.

Forrest Galante 15:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:12 People breaking their legs, jumping off balconies, like, oh ...

Forrest Galante 15:15 Just don't do it.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Yeah. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 15:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:16 I think it's probably good to see people do stupid shit-

Forrest Galante 15:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:19 ... so then you don't do it.

Forrest Galante 15:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:21 You know?

Forrest Galante 15:21 Yeah. And I got the scars to prove it, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:22 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 15:22 Like there's, there's shots of me getting bitten by sharks and all this other stuff, it's like, "This is why you don't do it."

Joe Rogan 15:27 You've been bitten by a shark?

Forrest Galante 15:28 Just this year. I mean, it's pretty minor, but just this year I, I took a single tooth-

Joe Rogan 15:32 Ay-yi-yi.

Forrest Galante 15:32 ... from, uh, a lemon shark while I was working in the field with one.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Dude, lemme see that. Fuck, man.

Forrest Galante 15:38 It's actually, it's on my Instagram page, I think. You can pull it up.

Joe Rogan 15:40 What's, uh, what's below ... What's the scar below it?

Forrest Galante 15:42 Oh, that's not a scar. I burned myself cooking crab last night on a pot.

Joe Rogan 15:45 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 15:46 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 15:46 I should've only rolled this shirt down to here.

Joe Rogan 15:48 Yeah, that's not quite as romantic.

Forrest Galante 15:48 Or made up a better story. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:50 Dude, I burned the top of my foot, uh, cooking spaghetti.

Forrest Galante 15:53 There ... Yeah, there you go. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:54 Uh, I was moving the b- ... Some ... Such a moron. I was moving the b- ... I was cooking barefoot. I was moving the boiling water with the spaghetti in it to the sink, you know, to put it in the strainer.

Forrest Galante 16:04 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 16:04 And I spilled it on the top of my foot.

Forrest Galante 16:07 Oh.

Joe Rogan 16:07 Wa- ... And I had to keep my shit together 'cause I was holding the pot.

Forrest Galante 16:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:10 I was like, "Fuck." And then I poured it in there and then we were going to Hawaii the next day.

Forrest Galante 16:15 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 16:16 So while I was in Hawaii, I had to have, like, ointment over the top of my foot-

Forrest Galante 16:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:20 ... a bandage on it, and I went into the ocean with my, uh, my Chucks on.

Forrest Galante 16:24 Yeah, the-

Joe Rogan 16:24 I wore my Converse All Stars in the ocean.

Jamie Vernon 16:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:26 I was like, "Look, uh, look, I have to cover it." Like, "I'll just do this and then I'll just clean it after I go in." I'm like, "I'm not gonna not go in the ocean, man. I'm in fucking Hawaii."

Forrest Galante 16:33 Right. You're in Hawaii.

Joe Rogan 16:34 I'm like, "If it gets infected, I'll, I'll figure that out."

Forrest Galante 16:36 But how cool did you look going in the ocean with your Chucks on?

Joe Rogan 16:39 I looked like a loser.

Jamie Vernon 16:40 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 16:40 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:40 And then the next, the next day there was a, um, uh, they had some sort of an issue with bacteria in the water where they told people to get out of the water.

Forrest Galante 16:50 Great.

Joe Rogan 16:50 So-

Forrest Galante 16:50 And you got an open wound? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:51 Yeah. Well, uh, well, it was never open, fortunately. It just, uh, it just ... The skin over it, like, was ... It was all totally red.

Forrest Galante 17:01 Gotcha.

Joe Rogan 17:01 And then the skin over it bubbled.

Forrest Galante 17:03 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 17:03 And then it eventually ... After a while, it healed-

Forrest Galante 17:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:06 ... and scratched ... Now I just have a big giant red mark. So that's when you got bit.

Forrest Galante 17:09 Uh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:10 Look at you, smiley face. Look at that-

Forrest Galante 17:11 Oh, it's kinda funny. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:12 "Oh, look, I got bit."

Jamie Vernon 17:13 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 17:13 Well, it was totally my fault. And I was being an idiot. And-

Joe Rogan 17:17 What happened?

Forrest Galante 17:18 Uh, we were working off the back of the boat and we had all these lemon sharks around, and we were working to get tiger sharks. Um, and, uh, I just dropped my guard for a second and as I looked back to where my hand was in the water, I saw the shark coming like that. And I just pulled my arm back and I literally just clipped a single tooth. But I think if it had been a fraction of a second later-

Joe Rogan 17:37 (sighs)

Forrest Galante 17:37 ... that would've been the hand.

Joe Rogan 17:38 Fuck.

Forrest Galante 17:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:40 How big was the shark?

Forrest Galante 17:41 Uh, it was probably like ... It's, it's on the ... It's probably the next page over. It's probably like an eight-foot shark. So it would've got me and I was lucky it just-

Joe Rogan 17:48 Oh my God, dude. You could've lost your arm.

Forrest Galante 17:49 For sure.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Oh, fuck.

Forrest Galante 17:50 Oh, this is a, this is a different ... This is a tiger shark, but this is pretty cool nonetheless.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Don't they have, like, Kevlar suits-

Forrest Galante 17:55 Mamorun.

Joe Rogan 17:55 ... that sharks can't bite through?

Forrest Galante 17:56 They do. They, um, Neptunic-

Joe Rogan 17:58 Why don't you wear that everywhere you go?

Forrest Galante 18:00 That's a good question.

Joe Rogan 18:00 You should wear that when you go to the mall. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 18:03 (laughs) It's, uh ... I'd look about as cool as you with your Converse in the ocean. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:07 Well, you couldn't see the Converse until I got out of the ocean. You'd be like, "Hmm."

Forrest Galante 18:09 That's true. You could see, you could see my Kevlar in the mall no matter where you are.

Joe Rogan 18:13 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 18:13 Um, no, I, I don't know. I don't like anything that inhibits the movement like that.

Joe Rogan 18:17 Does that stuff inhibit, the Kevlar stuff?

Forrest Galante 18:19 I've never worn it.

Jamie Vernon 18:20 Is that it?

Forrest Galante 18:20 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 Whoa.

Forrest Galante 18:21 It's those sharks behind, and that's the situation I was in. I was on the back of the boat like that.

Joe Rogan 18:25 Apparently Catalina, like off Catalina, there's a high shark population.

Forrest Galante 18:29 Yeah. White sharks. And they're increasing every year.

Joe Rogan 18:32 Really?

Forrest Galante 18:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:33 Why?

Forrest Galante 18:34 Well, because we used to, we used to hunt them, first of all, and we used to hunt seals and sea lions as well, and that's all been banned for a long time. So, there's way more seals and sea lions now, and there's more sharks reproducing.

Joe Rogan 18:45 Mm.

Forrest Galante 18:45 And I think, you know, I think there's something to be said for them, the water being consistently warmer and them staying further north than they used to as well-

Joe Rogan 18:54 Oh.

Forrest Galante 18:54 ... or south, depending on which way they're going. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:56 I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Forrest Galante 18:56 But, like, where I live in Santa Barbara, um, there's this single bay where my buddy and I have been going for the last four years, and it's, it's only for, like, three, four weeks in the summertime that there's, like, six to eight juvenile great white sharks around. And when we started going there four years ago, they were like six feet long, and then the next year they were like eight feet long. This year, um, I- I didn't go 'cause I was traveling, but my buddy went and filmed them. He's like, "Dude, they're getting up to like 10 feet." And it's the same animals in the same spot. What happens when those are like 14-foot animals? It's a very popular swimming beach.

Joe Rogan 19:29 Oh.

Forrest Galante 19:30 Yeah. So, who knows? Maybe they'll move on, maybe they won't.

Joe Rogan 19:33 Maybe they eat people.

Forrest Galante 19:33 Maybe they eat people. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:36 (laughs) Well, someone got eaten in Santa Barbara a few years back, right?

Forrest Galante 19:39 Um-

Joe Rogan 19:40 I believe a surfer.

Forrest Galante 19:40 There was a Pismo Beach one. I don't know about Santa Bar- possibly. It happens, it's like once a year, you know, there's some kind of attack, a bite, usually in October, around lobster season, or when the swells start to pick up, somebody gets chomped somewhere.

Joe Rogan 19:53 Why is it around then?

Forrest Galante 19:54 I think October, I'd have to check on their ecology, I think it's right around when they start breeding, so they're-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Oh.

Forrest Galante 19:59 ... they're a little fueled up.

Joe Rogan 20:00 Hmm.

Forrest Galante 20:00 But October is also when lobster season starts, so all the free divers are free diving in and out of caves looking like a seal. The waves start to kick in for the winter swells, so you got more people on surfboards. It just seems like the perfect cocktail of timing-

Joe Rogan 20:13 Hmm.

Forrest Galante 20:14 ... for, for mis-ID.

Joe Rogan 20:15 That makes sense.

Forrest Galante 20:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:16 That makes sense. It's, uh, it's such a beautiful creature and it's so cool that they're there, but it's also, you're like-

Forrest Galante 20:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:26 ... this thing can kill people.

Forrest Galante 20:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:27 And it's right there, and, and we go in the water-

Forrest Galante 20:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:30 ... and we swim around like, "Yay." And we, we have, we're so helpless out there.

Forrest Galante 20:34 Completely. And you, I think that's just the, you just have to know that going into it, right? It's, it's not like you're gonna, you know, kiss your life goodbye every time you get in the ocean. But-

Joe Rogan 20:43 Jamie, you're playing some audio.

Jamie Vernon 20:46 It's not should be coming out, but it is.

Joe Rogan 20:47 Yeah. What is it from?

Jamie Vernon 20:49 That shark attack in Santa Bar- Oh, it's not, this was two years ago. This guy caught it on his, uh, GoPro. Here you go.

Joe Rogan 20:54 He caught it an attack?

Jamie Vernon 20:55 Remember? It, we played this a while ago.

Forrest Galante 20:56 Oh, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 20:57 Like, it swims by him-

Joe Rogan 20:57 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Jamie Vernon 20:58 ... and then he misses his foot. Now it's spearfishing. Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 21:01 (gasps) Oh, my God. Oh, my God, dude. You're just so slow in there.

Forrest Galante 21:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:06 That's what's, oh, Jesus.

Forrest Galante 21:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:08 So, is he prodding it to keep it away from him?

Jamie Vernon 21:10 Yeah. Mm-hmm. He's swimming backwards, I think.

Forrest Galante 21:11 And that's the right move, you know, give it a poke, keep it off you.

Joe Rogan 21:15 It bit his toe? Wow, barely.

Forrest Galante 21:17 That is a best case scenario.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Oh, my God. The best case.

Forrest Galante 21:20 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:20 He's got a cool scar.

Forrest Galante 21:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 He had to take his shoes off to show everybody. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 21:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:26 (laughs) Fuck, man, he kept his little toe. I mean-

Forrest Galante 21:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:27 ... that's a little toe.

Forrest Galante 21:28 Yeah, literally. (laughs) Yeah, no-

Joe Rogan 21:30 It must've just sliced by...

Forrest Galante 21:32 They're such cool animals. They deserve a ton of respect, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:35 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 21:35 And I think you just have to realize they're there.

Joe Rogan 21:37 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 21:37 Like, that's just a part of it. There's also a way to, uh, to be smart about it, right? Don't go in, there's bait balls and tons of birds diving and tons of fish in the water. You know, stay out of the, the immediate surf zone and low vis and a high seal area, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:49 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 21:49 There's ways to, like, really reduce the risk.

Joe Rogan 21:52 We did New Year's in Hawaii last year-

Forrest Galante 21:54 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 21:54 ... and we got to see some whales.

Forrest Galante 21:56 Nice.

Joe Rogan 21:56 Dude, that is, it's, we were real close.

Forrest Galante 21:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:58 It's so wild, man. They're so big.

Forrest Galante 22:01 Aren't they?

Joe Rogan 22:02 They're so big and so beautiful. It's like, it's, it's, you're so happy that they're there.

Forrest Galante 22:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:07 You know?

Forrest Galante 22:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:08 And, and it's, uh, the, the, whales are one of those weird ones where you, where you're looking at it and you're like, "Am I seeing this?"

Forrest Galante 22:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:13 "Is this really a whale in the water?" Like-

Forrest Galante 22:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:16 ... they're so magical.

Forrest Galante 22:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:17 You know?

Forrest Galante 22:18 And so intelligent.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 22:18 That's what's amazing, like, they're, you know, the, the general consensus is that they're restricted by their morphology. Like, their body type doesn't allow them to share with us how much more intelligent they are than we really realize.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Mm, right.

Forrest Galante 22:30 But we know a little bit, you know, we know how they can sing across oceans and communicate and all get together and, you know, ugh, it's amazing. Synchronizing the way they swim.

Joe Rogan 22:38 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 22:38 Amazing creatures.

Joe Rogan 22:39 Well, and then there's orcas who eat them.

Forrest Galante 22:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:42 Which is even more fucked up-

Forrest Galante 22:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:43 ... 'cause we love orcas. But then you see, when you see an orca killing a whale, you're like, "Oh," well, that's where they got their name, right?

Forrest Galante 22:49 Mm-hmm. Killer whale, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:50 It's because they kill whales.

Forrest Galante 22:52 Yep. And they are a whale, they're in that family, you know?

Joe Rogan 22:55 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 22:55 They're marine mammals.

Joe Rogan 22:55 Well, they kill dolphins too, right?

Forrest Galante 22:57 Yeah, they're, they're, dolphins, whales, fish, stingrays-

Joe Rogan 23:00 Sharks.

Forrest Galante 23:00 ... seals, sea lions, sharks, like they're-

Joe Rogan 23:02 They're the captain.

Forrest Galante 23:03 ... they're amazing predators. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 23:04 They really are. And it, it's like that polar bear thing we were talking about earlier. They're like, you know, Shamu, like, cuddly-

Joe Rogan 23:09 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 23:09 ... you get your stuffed toy, they're smiling in every cartoon.

Joe Rogan 23:13 But aren't they pretty cool to people in general in the wild?

Forrest Galante 23:16 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:17 That's strange.

Forrest Galante 23:18 I believe there has never been an attack on a human being by an orca in the wild, period. There have been multiple in aquariums, um, you know, where there's been shows going on-

Joe Rogan 23:28 Sure.

Forrest Galante 23:28 ... that kinda stuff, but I believe there's never actually been a recorded case of a death by orca in the wild.

Joe Rogan 23:33 That's kinda crazy when you think about it.

Forrest Galante 23:35 Well, it just shows they're intelligent, right?

Joe Rogan 23:37 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 23:37 It shows, they look at you and go, "Nope, that's not on the menu." Like, "That's not, that's not something I need to eat."

Joe Rogan 23:41 But they must be hungry sometimes.

Forrest Galante 23:43 Well, what's interesting about orcas is there's really two sects of their diet. There's, there's orcas that only eat marine mammals, and there's orcas that only eat stingrays and some other fish species. And so, I think, you know, for, for those people, you see some of those incredible photographers like Paul Nicklen and stuff like that, that get those images of them underwater, they're diving with the fish-eating orcas. I think a few people have been successful in diving with the mammal-eating ones, but that's-

Joe Rogan 24:08 It's a little bit more risky proposition.

Forrest Galante 24:08 I feel like that's a dice for all. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Yeah. They might mistake you.

Forrest Galante 24:12 Well, you, you're a mammal and you're not, you're a seal size, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:15 Jamie, who were we talking to about orcas and the, um, the population that lives in the north, uh, the Pacific Northwest, like around Seattle, that only eats the Chinook salmon? Remember we were having this conversation the other day with somebody?

Forrest Galante 24:32 Phil Demers?

Joe Rogan 24:32 Phil Demers? Was it Phil?

Forrest Galante 24:33 I mean, that was a clip from-

Joe Rogan 24:34 Probably, yeah. Okay. So that's a crazy situation, right? You have a population of orcas that only eats Chinook salmon-

Forrest Galante 24:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:42 ... and then there's a decline in the population of Chinook salmon, so they're trying to figure out how to get them to eat seals.

Forrest Galante 24:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:47 They're try... And th- like, they won't do it.

Forrest Galante 24:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:49 They're, they're the local population. But then they have these migratory populations that come in and do eat seals.

Forrest Galante 24:54 And eat the seals, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:54 And they're like, "Hey, you assholes are starving to death."

Forrest Galante 24:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:56 "There's fucking food everywhere."

Forrest Galante 24:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:58 But they won't do it.

Forrest Galante 24:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:59 They won't switch over. It's very strange, isn't it?

Forrest Galante 25:02 And you gotta wonder how much of that is learned behavior, right? How many parent orcas are passing down, "This is the food."

Joe Rogan 25:08 Right.

Forrest Galante 25:08 You know, "This is how you hunt salmon, this is what you eat."

Joe Rogan 25:10 Right.

Forrest Galante 25:10 "Everything else is off the menu." Versus what's instinctual. Like, how did that one group of orcas learn to eat seals, whereas the other one is so dedicated to salmon? It's, it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 25:20 Well, it's amazing that they didn't adapt, right? They're starving-

Forrest Galante 25:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:24 ... but they don't branch out.

Forrest Galante 25:26 Right. Or maybe they're just unsuccessful.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Mm.

Forrest Galante 25:28 You know, maybe, maybe they've never learnt how to hunt seals. 'Cause it's definitely a different behavior to scooping up a fish.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Right.

Forrest Galante 25:34 So, yeah. It is amazing. You'd think they would get to this kind of tipping point where they're like, "There's not enough to eat, we need to make a transition," and then are they unsuccessful in that transition because they can't figure out how to do it? Are they just not doing it? They just don't know about it? It's... Who knows?

Joe Rogan 25:49 It's a real bummer, man, when you hear that they're almost starving to death-

Forrest Galante 25:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:53 ... out there, and they're trying to actually bring Chinook salmon to them.

Forrest Galante 25:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:56 You know, like, like whoo.

Forrest Galante 25:58 You know, I, it's, it's one of those things, it's like that whole kind of microenvironment is a game of Jenga. Right?

Joe Rogan 26:06 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 26:06 And you pull one piece out and you're like, ah, tower's still standing. Pull another piece out, ah, tower's still standing. You know, and it just takes that one piece till it all collapses.

Joe Rogan 26:13 That is an interesting way of looking at it, right? You know, they were talking about, uh, Hawaii, you know, and all these different invasive species that live in Hawaii, and, uh, there was this discussion about pigs.

Forrest Galante 26:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:25 And they were saying, you know, like, "We should really take the pigs off of Hawaii," and a lot of the people in Hawaii are like, "Hang on."

Forrest Galante 26:31 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:32 "We've been here as long as the pigs."

Forrest Galante 26:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:34 "So, like, are we invasive?"

Forrest Galante 26:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Like, "What's invasive now?"

Forrest Galante 26:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:38 Like, when does it become... Because obviously, like, luaus, they're synonymous with, like, eating pigs.

Forrest Galante 26:44 Huge.

Joe Rogan 26:44 And wild pigs are a, a big part of, you know, the, the people that hunt in Hawaii.

Forrest Galante 26:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:50 That's a... Their food source.

Forrest Galante 26:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:51 So they, they're like, "Well, would it..." But then you have a situation like Lanai, where I go every year.

Forrest Galante 26:56 The axis deer?

Joe Rogan 26:57 Yeah, which is terrible.

Forrest Galante 26:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:59 Environmentally, it's a disaster.

Forrest Galante 27:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:01 Like, it's, it's all wrong.

Forrest Galante 27:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:03 There are 30,000 deer on this one island.

Forrest Galante 27:05 That many?

Joe Rogan 27:06 30,000.

Forrest Galante 27:07 Good Lord.

Joe Rogan 27:07 They don't know, really. They're d- they're-

Forrest Galante 27:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:08 ... guessing. The, the estimate's between 20 and 30,000.

Forrest Galante 27:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:11 And there's 3,000 people.

Forrest Galante 27:12 Yeah. (laughs) That's-

Joe Rogan 27:13 And dude, you ain't never seen anything like it, 'cause it's a little-ass island.

Forrest Galante 27:16 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 27:16 You can drive around the whole thing in an hour.

Forrest Galante 27:17 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 27:18 I mean, maybe a little bit more than that, but not much.

Forrest Galante 27:20 Sure.

Joe Rogan 27:20 It's a tiny fucking island.

Forrest Galante 27:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:21 And there's so many deer.

Forrest Galante 27:23 Yeah. That's-

Joe Rogan 27:24 Like, you'll see them on... Like, you'll, you'll get your binoculars out-

Forrest Galante 27:27 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 27:27 ... and you look at this huge field, and you're like, "Oh, my God."

Forrest Galante 27:30 It's all deer?

Joe Rogan 27:30 You'll see a thousand.

Forrest Galante 27:31 Oh, you're kidding.

Joe Rogan 27:32 No. No.

Forrest Galante 27:33 Wow.

Joe Rogan 27:33 It's crazy. It's cra- it's so unnatural. No predators. Only humans. Plenty of food.

Forrest Galante 27:39 Right. Right. And they're just, the population's exploded.

Joe Rogan 27:41 Everywhere.

Forrest Galante 27:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:42 And they're damn delicious.

Forrest Galante 27:44 Right. (laughs) I have heard that before.

Joe Rogan 27:45 So for people who live there, it's amazing.

Forrest Galante 27:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:47 You know, like, if... You don't have to have much money to eat really well.

Forrest Galante 27:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:50 You get a rifle, you go out there, bang, you got a deer, and you could shoot as many as you want.

Forrest Galante 27:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:55 You could shoot seven in a day-

Forrest Galante 27:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:56 ... and stockpile your freezer and have all your meat for the year.

Forrest Galante 27:59 And they're that abundant? Like, if someone wanted to stock up?

Joe Rogan 28:02 Oh, my God.

Forrest Galante 28:02 Yeah. Wow.

Joe Rogan 28:02 The only thing that keeps me from killing a ton of them is that I use a bow and arrow, and it's really hard to do with a bow and arrow-

Forrest Galante 28:07 Sure.

Joe Rogan 28:07 ... 'cause they're so fast.

Forrest Galante 28:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:08 And they evolved in Asia to get away from tigers.

Forrest Galante 28:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:11 They're an Indian animal.

Forrest Galante 28:12 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 28:13 So it's, uh, super fast.

Forrest Galante 28:15 It's, it's a tough argument that c- because you're right. Like, Hawaiian people, pig is culturally significant to them.

Joe Rogan 28:21 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 28:21 You know, just like probably axis deer is to the people of Lanai and has been for however long the deer have been there. But I guess it's like, at what cost? Right?

Joe Rogan 28:29 Right.

Forrest Galante 28:29 At what cost? I- if... And I don't think this is the case, but if someone said, "Look, if... I know these pigs are culturally significant to you, but if we leave them here, the whole island's ecosystem will collapse. There'll be no birds, no fish, you know, no lizards, nothing." Is it worth it to have pigs?

Joe Rogan 28:44 Right.

Forrest Galante 28:44 Like, that's... And it's delicate.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Well, the pigs in particular, right? 'Cause they eat everything. They eat ground-nesting birds.

Forrest Galante 28:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:50 They'll devastate everything that's in-

Forrest Galante 28:51 Everything.

Joe Rogan 28:51 ... front of a roots.

Forrest Galante 28:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:53 They'll fuck up every tree, everything that's coming up, all the sprouts, everything.

Forrest Galante 28:57 Everything. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 28:58 They're super destructive. Here. They're destructive here in California.

Joe Rogan 29:00 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 29:01 It's not, it's not isolated to Hawaii. Everywhere that we've brought pigs, they've done a lot of damage.

Joe Rogan 29:05 Well, we were actually gonna... I was... We were talking about this out here. We're gonna film something about, uh, hunting pigs at Tejon Ranch, 'cause Tejon Ran-... Like, they, the place gets devastated. Their agriculture-

Forrest Galante 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 ... gets devastated by these pigs. There's so many of them.

Forrest Galante 29:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:17 And they're all over... Northern California has a problem in San Jose. They're in people's yards.

Forrest Galante 29:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:24 They're destroying shit and... 'Cause they're, they... If you don't kill them, they just breed and breed and breed and breed and breed-

Forrest Galante 29:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:29 ... and breed and breed, and then they just expand.

Forrest Galante 29:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:31 And they're, they're dealing with them now even in the northern part of the United States.

Forrest Galante 29:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:35 They're dealing with them in the Northeast. There was a New York Times article about it. See if you can find that. Um, from two days ago.

Forrest Galante 29:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:41 About the expansion of wild pigs, is that they are starting to make their way into the Northeastern states. And they're just... They can't be stopped. They can survive-

Forrest Galante 29:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:50 ... in any weather.

Forrest Galante 29:51 Yep.

Joe Rogan 29:51 They breed three times a year. They can... They're viable, I think, from the time they're five to six months old, they have their first litter.

Forrest Galante 29:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:58 "Feral pigs roam the South. Now even the Northern states aren't safe. The swine have established themselves in Canada-"

Forrest Galante 30:04 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 30:04 "... and are encroaching on border states like Montana and North Dakota." Fuck, man. If they get into Montana...

Forrest Galante 30:09 They'll do so much damage. You know what's crazy about the feral pigs in the United States? They were brought here by, I believe, Christopher Columbus, starting with six animals.

Joe Rogan 30:19 Whoa.

Forrest Galante 30:19 So the entire 200 million or whatever it is across the US, I don't know the number, it was like, six or eight or 10 original pigs that were brought in by Christopher Columbus and dropped in Florida.

Joe Rogan 30:30 That's insane.

Forrest Galante 30:31 That's... You wanna talk about how crazy they can reproduce and how much damage they do? Like, think of the biomass of those animals s- stemming off of, like, six of them.

Joe Rogan 30:39 That's insane.... and they're so tough, you can put them on a boat and they'll make it across the ocean.

Forrest Galante 30:44 Oh, yeah. No, they're amaz- I, and, and, and they are terrible for the environment.

Joe Rogan 30:48 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 30:48 Like, they do so much damage to native species, to riparian habitat. I mean, they're... I, like you said, we were talking about it out there briefly and, um, it's, it's a good thing. People should realize that invasive species like that should not be in an ecosystem.

Joe Rogan 31:02 Well, they certainly shouldn't be in an ecosystem when there's no balance, right?

Forrest Galante 31:05 Correct.

Joe Rogan 31:05 If there are like warthogs and they're in Africa, there's a system for that.

Forrest Galante 31:08 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Like, they're all, they're supposed to be there. Warthogs are wild looking-

Forrest Galante 31:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:12 ... creatures, aren't they?

Forrest Galante 31:13 They're amazing.

Joe Rogan 31:13 Have you ever seen one? You've seen one in, in person?

Forrest Galante 31:14 Yeah, yeah, I grew up there. I grew up in Zimbabwe.

Joe Rogan 31:16 Oh, that's right.

Forrest Galante 31:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 That's right. Yeah.

Forrest Galante 31:18 So I got, I actually got a pretty funny story about a war- warthog. Uh, my uncle, uh, my, my mom's brother, we were out on safari one time and he was, he was young. You know, he's m- he was much younger than my mother, so he was maybe a teenager or something, and he grabbed this plum and started going for a walk across camp. And anyway, this warthog decided it wanted this plum, and so it came trotting after my uncle and started chasing him in circles around this tree. But my uncle was so panicked by this thing chasing him around this big baobab tree that he wouldn't drop the plum.

Joe Rogan 31:49 Oh, Jesus.

Forrest Galante 31:49 So he's just in this perpetual cycle of being, of being (laughs) chased around this tree until he eventually threw the plum and the warthog just veered off and went for the plum. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:58 Lucky it didn't want him.

Forrest Galante 31:59 Yeah. (laughs) They're, they're very funny, very mischievous. I love the way their tails stick up through the grass when they're running around.

Joe Rogan 32:05 They're weird looking.

Forrest Galante 32:07 Very.

Joe Rogan 32:07 Like, they, they're, they're, they're related to pigs, right? In some sort of way?

Forrest Galante 32:10 Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, they're all that same family. Speaking of weird pigs, are you familiar with the barbarossa?

Joe Rogan 32:14 No.

Forrest Galante 32:15 This is one we should pull up.

Joe Rogan 32:17 Barbarossa?

Forrest Galante 32:17 You're gonna love this animal. Yeah. You're gonna love this. It, it, it's one of my top bucket list animals to see in the wild.

Joe Rogan 32:24 It's a great name.

Forrest Galante 32:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Barbarossa.

Forrest Galante 32:26 You gotta... I, I, I don't even wanna tell you what it is until you see the image-

Joe Rogan 32:28 Sounds good.

Forrest Galante 32:28 ... because you're gonna be like, "No way that's real." It looks like something outta Star Wars.

Joe Rogan 32:32 Really?

Forrest Galante 32:32 Mm-hmm. And it's a pig.

Joe Rogan 32:33 Where does it live?

Forrest Galante 32:34 Indonesia.

Joe Rogan 32:36 How big does it get?

Forrest Galante 32:37 Uh, maybe 200 pounds. I'm not positive on the size, but-

Joe Rogan 32:40 Whoa!

Forrest Galante 32:42 Look at that thing. Look at those tusks-

Joe Rogan 32:43 What the fuck-

Forrest Galante 32:44 ... growing out of its face.

Joe Rogan 32:44 ... is those things that grow out of its, the middle of its head?

Forrest Galante 32:47 Yep.

Joe Rogan 32:48 That's crazy.

Forrest Galante 32:49 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:50 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 32:51 Look at that one.

Joe Rogan 32:51 What the f- bro, that does not look real.

Forrest Galante 32:54 Right?

Joe Rogan 32:54 That-

Forrest Galante 32:54 Doesn't that look like something outta Star Wars?

Joe Rogan 32:56 Yes.

Forrest Galante 32:56 That's a real animal.

Joe Rogan 32:57 That looks like an Avatar creature.

Forrest Galante 32:58 Yep.

Joe Rogan 32:58 That's what it looks like. Is that fighting something?

Jamie Vernon 33:00 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 33:00 Looks like it.

Joe Rogan 33:01 What's it fighting there?

Jamie Vernon 33:02 There's another one, I think.

Joe Rogan 33:03 Oh my God.

Forrest Galante 33:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Barbarossa is going to war.

Jamie Vernon 33:05 It's a f- it says, uh, pig deer.

Joe Rogan 33:08 (laughs) They call it a pig deer?

Jamie Vernon 33:08 Uh, it says barbarossa or pig deer.

Joe Rogan 33:11 Oh, wow.

Jamie Vernon 33:11 Just might be somebody just-

Joe Rogan 33:12 That's-

Jamie Vernon 33:12 ... making a guess. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 33:13 Like, their nickname of it?

Jamie Vernon 33:14 I actually think they're, uh, having sex there.

Joe Rogan 33:16 Oh, getting it on.

Forrest Galante 33:16 (laughs) Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 33:17 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 33:17 That's not fighting.

Joe Rogan 33:17 Making more barbarossas.

Forrest Galante 33:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:20 (laughs) That's just shitty barbarossa jujitsu.

Forrest Galante 33:22 Yeah. That's the kinda fighting mommy and daddy do late at night.

Joe Rogan 33:24 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 33:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:25 Mommy and daddy were just playing.

Forrest Galante 33:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:26 Don't worry, no one's getting hurt.

Forrest Galante 33:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:29 Mommy was gagging.

Forrest Galante 33:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:31 Um-

Forrest Galante 33:32 Yeah, but aren't they wild?

Joe Rogan 33:32 Look at that one right there, Jamie. L- whoever your cursor is, click on that one. What the fuck, man? (laughs)

Forrest Galante 33:37 Isn't that a wild pig?

Joe Rogan 33:38 The things coming out of it, the tusks that come outta the middle of its head are so strange. Like, where did that come from?

Forrest Galante 33:44 I, I don't know why you evolve that. Maybe a, maybe, like, a peacock's tail, you know, for, uh, showmanship. But what's really crazy about them evolving those two, two teeth or tusks out of their, their bridge of their snout is they, if they're not broken in fights and rooting around, they can grow long enough that they will puncture the animal in the head and kill it.

Joe Rogan 34:03 I've heard of that. Oh.

Forrest Galante 34:04 Oh, that's these animals.

Joe Rogan 34:05 You know why? Because I, I put a, an image of it on my, my, uh, Instagram. It was one of those "Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself" memes.

Forrest Galante 34:12 Oh, yeah. (laughs) I saw a few of those. You threw up.

Joe Rogan 34:14 And it was, uh, a s- a barbarossa skull, actually.

Forrest Galante 34:17 Oh, saying that it w- can do that?

Joe Rogan 34:19 That it actually was driving into its own head, growing into its own head.

Forrest Galante 34:23 It's-

Joe Rogan 34:23 Yeah, like that.

Forrest Galante 34:24 Yeah, insane. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:25 That's crazy. Like, maybe that's nature's way of saying, "All right, enough."

Forrest Galante 34:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:29 "Check, check, please."

Forrest Galante 34:30 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:30 "You assholes will live forever-"

Jamie Vernon 34:31 That's a good one.

Joe Rogan 34:32 "... and eat everything in front of you."

Jamie Vernon 34:33 That is funny.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Like that one. Look at that.

Forrest Galante 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 Look how that-

Forrest Galante 34:34 There it is.

Joe Rogan 34:35 ... is growing into its own brain. Imagine what a, like, one day you have, like, a little bit of a headache and the next day it just gets a little worse. You're like, "What is going on?"

Forrest Galante 34:42 (laughs) And what do you do?

Joe Rogan 34:44 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 34:44 It's like if you go and, you know-

Joe Rogan 34:45 (groans)

Forrest Galante 34:45 ... hit that against the ground, it's only gonna get worse.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Right.

Forrest Galante 34:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:48 It's already in your brain.

Forrest Galante 34:49 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:50 Yeah, you'd have to get it... You'd have to have been smart enough to find a branch where you could slip that over-

Forrest Galante 34:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:55 ... and torque your head.

Forrest Galante 34:56 Yeah. I don't thi- I don't think-

Joe Rogan 34:58 And snap it off.

Forrest Galante 34:58 I don't think that's happening if you're a pig.

Joe Rogan 35:00 Is this awful, I mean, often that this happens, where they kill themselves by growing their tusk into their brain? Look at that.

Forrest Galante 35:06 I don't know. That looks like two of them heading that direction.

Joe Rogan 35:09 Fuck.

Forrest Galante 35:10 They're a crazy animal.

Joe Rogan 35:11 What a beautiful animal, though.

Forrest Galante 35:12 So there's an extinct subspecies of those called the Moluccan barbarossa, which in the single island near Sulawesi used to be, and then they think people have hunted them, um, you know, to extinction, localized extinction within that island and that subspecies. But, uh, some people I know that worked over there ate one. So they're like, "Yeah, no, we ate this wild pig with these crazy horns."

Joe Rogan 35:34 Recently?

Forrest Galante 35:34 And I was like... Yeah, this was, like, two years ago.

Joe Rogan 35:36 Oh.

Forrest Galante 35:36 Um, you know, and they have no proof and they don't have the skull and they don't have the picture. They were like, they were traveling and they were like, "Yeah, yeah, we got back and we ate this pig with these wild horns on this particular island." And I was like, "Wait, is that possibly a Moluccan barbarossa?" I was like, "Uh, I don't know." And you look where they were and what they said and what they ate, and it's like, oh, that could be an extinct, an extinct, uh, subspecies that you guys consumed.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Well, how many biologists are actually actively out there looking for these creatures?

Forrest Galante 36:00 With those, I would say zero currently, that species. But with regards to this field of presumed extinct animals, it seems to be a movement that's expanding, you know? And I think one of the reasons for that is we have a rate of something like 2,000 species a year being deemed extinct. Right? So when you have that many animals being deemed extinct every year, there's, there's flags being put up. Is it really extinct? Have we looked everywhere? And so this... You know, I don't wanna say I was the first, but I feel like I was in that wave of first people to start looking into extinction, um, as far as a- ongoing animals wrongfully deemed extinct. And now it's like, it's like mainstream in the biology world. It's like there's a lot of people that are like, "I'm gonna go see if I can find this thing."

Joe Rogan 36:38 Is it because it's a romantic sort of thing? There's a lot of cache, like if you can find an, uh, a s- seemed to be extinct barbarossa...

Forrest Galante 36:46 I think so. I think it's very romantic.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Yes.

Forrest Galante 36:48 You know, as opposed to just setting out to study something that we know that's there, this like harrowing journey to find-

Joe Rogan 36:54 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 36:54 ... this creature that the world has written off. It's very romantic.

Joe Rogan 36:58 You ... Have you ever heard of the orang pendek?

Forrest Galante 37:01 Oh, what is ... This is like a ... This is a cryptid, right?

Joe Rogan 37:04 Yes.

Forrest Galante 37:05 What is ... I- I've heard of this word.

Joe Rogan 37:06 It's a little tiny monkey person.

Forrest Galante 37:07 That's right. Did we talk about this last time?

Joe Rogan 37:09 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 37:09 We might have.

Joe Rogan 37:10 Perhaps.

Forrest Galante 37:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:10 Well, I'm very repetitive.

Forrest Galante 37:11 That's okay. I don't mind. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:13 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 37:13 It's, it's still fun. It's not in my wheelhouse, you know?

Joe Rogan 37:16 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 37:16 Like the, the cryptids, the Loch Ness Monsters.

Joe Rogan 37:18 I think that one, they think, is in Vietnam. Um, I think it's in Vietnam and s- maybe some other parts of Southeast Asia and, um, the, the, the ... Most people thought it was nonsense-

Forrest Galante 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:28 ... until the homo floresiensis-

Forrest Galante 37:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:32 ... until they found out about that hobbit person that lives in the island of Flores and then they're like, "Okay, hold on." Or lived, I should say.

Forrest Galante 37:38 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 37:38 As recently as 14,000 years ago, right? So when they found out about that thing, they're like, "Well, may- maybe these little fuckers are still hanging around-"

Forrest Galante 37:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:47 ... out there somewhere."

Forrest Galante 37:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 Just you're dealing with incredibly dense jungle and they're very wary. If you're a person stomping through the jungle, something that lives there hears you a mile away.

Forrest Galante 37:56 For sure.

Joe Rogan 37:56 You, you, you're not sneaking up on a monkey.

Forrest Galante 37:58 No. No. Well, we ... This year, um, I went into Son Doong, which is the world's largest cave. That was only discovered in 1995. It's this massive opening, six miles of underground cave. You know, you don't see daylight for two days.

Joe Rogan 38:13 Six miles?

Forrest Galante 38:14 It, it's ... You should look at the pictures of this place. You'll love it. I mean, it's just this m- It, it looks like something out of Avatar. I mean, this cave, you can fit New York City skyscrapers inside of it, it's so big.

Joe Rogan 38:24 (gasps)

Forrest Galante 38:24 It has its own weather system.

Joe Rogan 38:26 What?

Forrest Galante 38:26 Yeah. It's, it's ...

Joe Rogan 38:27 Where is this?

Forrest Galante 38:28 Son ... So it's in the Annamite Mountain Range between Vietnam and Laos and, uh, we got to go into it this year because we were looking for this habitat. In fact, this is my show that comes out tonight. Uh, we were looking for this habitat-

Joe Rogan 38:39 Where is it on so people can hear it wh- while we're fresh?

Forrest Galante 38:41 Animal Planet.

Joe Rogan 38:41 Animal Planet?

Forrest Galante 38:42 Extinct or Alive-

Joe Rogan 38:43 Um, tonight at 9:00 PM on Animal Planet. We go into Son Doong Cave. Set your DVRs, kids.

Forrest Galante 38:47 Plug. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 38:49 But, um ...

Joe Rogan 38:49 So let's see this. Oh my God.

Forrest Galante 38:50 Yeah. There, there's ... You know, Hang Son Doong. That's the entrance to it and, like, look at the size of it. The scope of it is massive.

Joe Rogan 38:57 I need something to compare it to. What am I looking at? I'm s- seeing the ...

Jamie Vernon 39:01 Tents.

Forrest Galante 39:01 Those are-

Joe Rogan 39:01 Are those tents?

Forrest Galante 39:01 Those are little tents.

Joe Rogan 39:02 Oh.

Forrest Galante 39:03 People.

Jamie Vernon 39:03 They're people in tents.

Joe Rogan 39:03 Oh, those are tents.

Forrest Galante 39:04 There's full lake systems in there and, uh ...

Joe Rogan 39:06 Oh my God, that's inside the tent? I mean, that's inside the cave?

Forrest Galante 39:09 Yeah. Look at the wedding cake, that one right there. That's called the wedding cake. It's ... Yeah, that one. It's these pyres. I mean, it's just ... It's the most fantastic looking thing. There's a person standing on top of that little pyre, uh, right there for scale.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Oh my God. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 39:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:24 That's insane.

Forrest Galante 39:25 It's insane. More people have summited Everest than have been through that cave.

Joe Rogan 39:29 Wow. Well, people summit Everest every day now, so ...

Forrest Galante 39:32 Well, that's why. (laughs) But yeah, so we ... That's the wedding cake.

Joe Rogan 39:35 That's inc- Oh my God, that's incredible.

Forrest Galante 39:37 I have a picture just like that, that I'm very proud of. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:40 My God, that's so spectacular.

Forrest Galante 39:43 But what's amazing is about two thirds of the way through the system, you can see where ... What you're looking at is areas where the cave roof has collapsed and there's isolated pockets of ecosystem, right? So we were talking about the, the pygmy people that could live in the forests of Vietnam. This is the kind ... My point is this giant six-mile-long cave with these huge openings wasn't even discovered until, I think, '95.

Joe Rogan 40:06 (whistles)

Forrest Galante 40:07 So what's to say a f- a tribe of small people couldn't hide in something like that and move in and out and-

Joe Rogan 40:12 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 40:12 ... never be seen? I mean, it's, it's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 40:15 There was a stupid movie about people that lived underground that ate people. Remember that? There was a bunch of chicks.

Forrest Galante 40:21 The Cave? Was that The Cave?

Joe Rogan 40:23 Mm.

Jamie Vernon 40:23 The Descent?

Forrest Galante 40:24 The Descent, that's what it was.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Jamie Vernon 40:26 Yes.

Forrest Galante 40:26 So my whole team watched ... We, we, we spent like ... When we were going ... Like, leading up to this expedition, we were like, "All right, let's watch a bunch of bad horror cave movies before we go."

Joe Rogan 40:35 The first one's bad. The second one is so bad it's, it's funny.

Forrest Galante 40:38 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:39 Because they did The Descent 2 and you're like, "Wait, uh ..."

Forrest Galante 40:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:42 "The fuck?"

Jamie Vernon 40:43 As you were bringing that up, I stumbled across a video potentially ... It's obviously probably not real of an orang pendek.

Joe Rogan 40:49 No, it's totally real, Jamie. Stop being a party pooper.

Jamie Vernon 40:51 Well, I know, but I mean, like, have you ever seen this?

Forrest Galante 40:53 God.

Jamie Vernon 40:53 These guys are on bikes.

Joe Rogan 40:53 Such a dick.

Jamie Vernon 40:54 And this thing st- runs out in front of them.

Joe Rogan 40:56 Let me see.

Jamie Vernon 40:57 It doesn't look like CGI is the only thing I'm going with at the moment. It pro- ... It's obviously probably not real, but like-

Forrest Galante 41:01 That's definitely a person.

Jamie Vernon 41:03 It had a tail or something, they were doing like freeze frames of it.

Joe Rogan 41:06 What?

Jamie Vernon 41:07 I stopped watching because you guys took me on the cave thing, but ...

Forrest Galante 41:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:11 What?

Jamie Vernon 41:11 It's a 10-minute video. I just ... I ... If you ... Neither of you have seen this before, then-

Forrest Galante 41:14 I've never seen it before.

Joe Rogan 41:14 So where are they?

Jamie Vernon 41:15 ... I'm kind of new.

Joe Rogan 41:16 They're in Vietnam?

Jamie Vernon 41:17 I think so.

Joe Rogan 41:18 Bro.

Jamie Vernon 41:19 Like, they were just out riding their bikes and this thing, they caught it on their GoPros and then they were trying to find it.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Let's see the-

Jamie Vernon 41:25 I ... They could also be trying to troll everyone on the internet. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 41:27 Do these guys have a troll, uh, video? I mean, what is their, their YouTube page? Have we gone on their YouTube page?

Jamie Vernon 41:33 It's, it's on a ... It's, like, on a Bigfoot webs- Sasquatch Chronicles is what I came across.

Forrest Galante 41:37 But that's the problem is ... Remember in Men in Black how they used to always check the, uh, whatever it was called, like, they'd check, like, the National Enquirer for, like, tips on aliens?

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yes. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 41:47 (laughs) Where else do you go to get this info though?

Joe Rogan 41:49 Right.

Forrest Galante 41:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:50 Let me see this again.

Jamie Vernon 41:51 It'll pop out right here.

Joe Rogan 41:52 So they're riding. Here it goes. They're riding.

Jamie Vernon 41:56 Right there. Like, what the fuck is that?

Joe Rogan 41:58 Whoa.

Forrest Galante 41:58 That's definitely a person or a humanoid.

Jamie Vernon 42:01 It's really tiny, whatever it is.

Forrest Galante 42:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:06 It's riding pretty fast.

Forrest Galante 42:10 It also could be, like-

Joe Rogan 42:12 Bullshit.

Forrest Galante 42:12 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 42:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:13 Could be bullshit, but it could be a little monkey person under there.

Forrest Galante 42:16 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 42:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:17 Look, we, we know those little monkey people were real.

Forrest Galante 42:20 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:21 God damn. Imagine if that's real.

Forrest Galante 42:24 And keep in mind ... And again, I'm not, like, a huge cryptid guy, but keep in mind, you know, as a, as a homo sapien, they have a higher intellect, which means they're better at avoiding people, right?

Joe Rogan 42:32 Right.

Forrest Galante 42:33 So it's ... You know, it's, it's not unreasonable to say if there was a group of small humanoids out there that didn't want to be discovered, they could stay hidden.

Joe Rogan 42:41 Yeah, and if it's really small-

Forrest Galante 42:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:43 ... and, you know, and, and also some sort of a hominid that has intelligence-

Forrest Galante 42:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:48 ... it's, it's probably got a pretty decent food source in the jungle.

Forrest Galante 42:51 Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:52 ... but they would find a dead one, wouldn't they?

Forrest Galante 42:55 That's always the argument, right? Why isn't there a roadkill-

Joe Rogan 42:57 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 42:58 ... X or Y? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:59 But the thing is, like, there is a lot of mountain lions. Good luck finding a dead one.

Forrest Galante 43:05 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:07 You know?

Forrest Galante 43:07 There's-

Joe Rogan 43:07 Look at that, look at that.

Jamie Vernon 43:08 Yeah, that's like the best screen shot they got.

Forrest Galante 43:10 I don't think that's a tail. That looks like a spear.

Jamie Vernon 43:12 Like a spear, yeah.

Forrest Galante 43:12 Yeah. And I mean, who knows, who's, what's to say that isn't a short guy who's been poaching, and he's like, "Crap, I'm getting busted."

Jamie Vernon 43:18 Yeah, yeah.

Forrest Galante 43:18 Right?

Joe Rogan 43:19 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 43:19 But it doesn't mean it's not fascinating. And this is the kinda stuff that we wade through in droves to try and figure out, you know, are these animals, are these creatures still out there?

Joe Rogan 43:27 Look at that, that's so weird. God, I'm- I'm- I'm such a sucker, though.

Forrest Galante 43:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:35 Oh, that thing looks like it's wearing shorts, dude. Doesn't it?

Jamie Vernon 43:39 I ... Yeah. Yeah. That looks ... And it's running exactly like a person.

Joe Rogan 43:44 Yeah, that's what I'm gonna first-

Jamie Vernon 43:44 In a full sprint, but-

Joe Rogan 43:45 But it's so little.

Jamie Vernon 43:46 Right, could be a little kid.

Joe Rogan 43:47 That- that's the thing about the ... It could be a little kid, yeah. But that's the thing about the Orang Pendek, is that they think it was like the Homo Floresiensis. I think they think it's really the same thing, and the Homo Floresiensis was really a- a three-foot tall humanoid.

Forrest Galante 44:00 Three, four feet, yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 44:02 And some, yeah, some subset.

Forrest Galante 44:04 Yep.

Jamie Vernon 44:04 Oh, here's a ...

Joe Rogan 44:05 That's another image?

Jamie Vernon 44:06 ... pretty good-

Joe Rogan 44:07 Oh, wow. Yeah, that looks like a little person, man.

Jamie Vernon 44:09 The head looks weird, though.

Joe Rogan 44:10 It's got a hat.

Forrest Galante 44:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:11 It looks like it's wearing a hat.

Jamie Vernon 44:12 The ears.

Forrest Galante 44:13 It's wearing, it's wearing a Disneyland hat.

Jamie Vernon 44:14 I think they're pointing out the ears because it matches the Orang Pendek images of that Sasquatch-type head or something.

Joe Rogan 44:21 Dude, that is a person with a stick.

Forrest Galante 44:24 And there, and there, that creature looks naked. It doesn't look like there's shorts on.

Joe Rogan 44:28 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 44:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:29 It does. So how tall do you think that is? That looks really short.

Jamie Vernon 44:34 And moving fast.

Forrest Galante 44:35 I mean-

Joe Rogan 44:36 Really short and like three feet tall.

Forrest Galante 44:38 Grow- going into tall grass, right? What's that? T- three-foot grass? Four-foot grass?

Joe Rogan 44:43 That's so weird.

Forrest Galante 44:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:45 Okay, so here's size comparison. See, I'm such a sucker. Look at, look how, look at, there's the size comparison. That is fucking tiny, man.

Forrest Galante 44:52 Yeah, it's tiny. It's really tiny.

Joe Rogan 44:54 Oh, my God, it's real.

Forrest Galante 44:55 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 44:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:59 I wanna believe so bad.

Forrest Galante 45:00 I know, it's-

Joe Rogan 45:00 I'm such a moron.

Forrest Galante 45:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:02 I'm such a moron when it comes to this stuff.

Forrest Galante 45:04 Ah.

Joe Rogan 45:04 I believed in Big Foot for so long, I wanted to believe so bad.

Jamie Vernon 45:06 They estimated it was between 80 and 150 centimeters, which is somewhere between 30 and 60 inches tall, so that's three-

Joe Rogan 45:13 Tiny.

Jamie Vernon 45:13 ... to five feet. Three to four feet, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:14 Little thing. Tiny little thing.

Forrest Galante 45:16 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 45:17 Tiny little person. I hope it's real.

Forrest Galante 45:17 Yeah, I do too.

Joe Rogan 45:18 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 45:18 I do too. Yeah. I mean, it's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 45:20 But do you hope ... Would you rather not knowing and it lives, or someone kills it and you find out that it's real?

Forrest Galante 45:28 I'd rather not knowing and it lives.

Joe Rogan 45:29 Me too.

Forrest Galante 45:30 For sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:31 Me too, but I feel like a bitch.

Forrest Galante 45:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:33 Like, I wanna know, but I don't want it to die.

Forrest Galante 45:36 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 45:36 You know? Like, come on, man. Just tell me.

Forrest Galante 45:39 And how blurry does the line get in that situation? Because it's- it's humanoid, right?

Joe Rogan 45:44 Yes.

Forrest Galante 45:44 So it's like-

Joe Rogan 45:44 Right.

Forrest Galante 45:45 It's not like you're catching them and putting them in zoos.

Joe Rogan 45:47 Right.

Forrest Galante 45:47 You know, to breed them and keep the population up. Like- like, that gets really dicey.

Joe Rogan 45:52 That's super dicey.

Forrest Galante 45:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:54 But didn't they do that with an African man in the Bronx Zoo in like the turn of the century?

Forrest Galante 45:59 They put an African man in the Bronx Zoo?

Joe Rogan 46:01 Yes, they did. Yeah, they had an African man. I believe it was the Bronx Zoo.

Forrest Galante 46:06 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 46:06 In like the 1800s or the early 1900s.

Jamie Vernon 46:10 Pigme?

Joe Rogan 46:11 A pigmy?

Jamie Vernon 46:11 Yeah, Ota Benga.

Joe Rogan 46:12 What year was it?

Jamie Vernon 46:13 1906.

Joe Rogan 46:14 Oh, God.

Forrest Galante 46:15 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Yeah, it's ... They had him in the zoo, man.

Forrest Galante 46:17 (laughs) That's- that's insane.

Joe Rogan 46:19 Look at that.

Forrest Galante 46:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:21 Dude's in the zoo. Yeah. Well, you know what, man? People were just figuring life out back then.

Forrest Galante 46:26 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 46:27 This- this is the reality of human beings, is that we have not been alive that long-

Forrest Galante 46:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:33 ... and we have not been civilized, in terms of how we view the world today, with inclusivity and objectivity and care, and, you know, kindness to- towards others. Like, this compassion and altruism.

Forrest Galante 46:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:46 This is ... On a- on a global scale, this is fairly recent.

Forrest Galante 46:50 Yeah. We're figuring things out-

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 46:51 ... as we go. I mean, the- history's a perfect ... It can show you how we've progressed.

Joe Rogan 46:55 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 46:56 You know? It's a document- documentation of how we've progressed.

Joe Rogan 46:58 But yet, still.

Forrest Galante 47:00 It's still fucked up.

Joe Rogan 47:01 That was still 50 years after slavery.

Forrest Galante 47:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:03 Right?

Forrest Galante 47:03 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 47:04 Yeah. 40, 45 years after slavery. What the fuck, guys?

Forrest Galante 47:08 So Bronx Zoo, you know, speaking in our like weird cryptid realm, reminded me of something. So get this. Chupacabra has been attributed to the possibility that there are thylacine in North America.

Joe Rogan 47:20 What?

Forrest Galante 47:20 And here's what supports that. There is documented proof that however many years ago, I don't remember the dates, there were two breeding pair of thylacine bound for the Bronx Zoo, and they- the boat crashed into the shore, and most of the animals escaped, including the two breeding pair of thylacine. Fast-forward 10, 15 years, you start having these chupacabra sightings pop up in the Northeast, and these animals were adapted to living in Tasmania, which is a pretty similar climate to the North American Northeast. And so, uh, there's people that have kind of drawn these parallels and said, "Oh, the chupacabra that we've reported running around, you know, the United States is actually a tiny remnant population of these thylacine that were brought here for the Bronx Zoo that escaped."

Joe Rogan 48:05 What? You buy into this?

Forrest Galante 48:08 No. Not personally.

Joe Rogan 48:09 Sounds good though, right?

Forrest Galante 48:09 But it sounds ... It's an amazing story.

Joe Rogan 48:11 Boy, you- you had me. If you said yes, I'd be-

Forrest Galante 48:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:13 ... I'd really go on an expedition.

Jamie Vernon 48:14 I- I- quick question off of stuff you've talked about. If someone could get one for the Bronx Zoo, then, would a rich person have been able to buy one, like a rich guy in Texas, for instance?

Forrest Galante 48:23 A thylacine?

Jamie Vernon 48:23 Been able to purchase one privately?

Joe Rogan 48:25 Oh, yeah.

Forrest Galante 48:26 Yeah. Back then-

Joe Rogan 48:26 Texas? You could probably get one today. (laughs)

Forrest Galante 48:29 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 48:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:29 If you wanna find a thylacine-

Forrest Galante 48:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:31 ... go- go to Bubba's house.

Forrest Galante 48:32 Right. (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 48:33 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 48:33 But especially back then, there were no like import/export laws about wildlife.

Jamie Vernon 48:37 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 48:37 You know, you could just bring in whatever you liked if you had money. You know, what's to say ... Everybody was in a race to collect stuff for zoos and museums. Like, what's to say somebody didn't bring some in?

Joe Rogan 48:45 Texas and the- their exotics. It's so strange. I mean, I had a bit about it in my act in 2016, my Netflix special, that there's more tigers in captivity in Texas, in private collections-

Forrest Galante 48:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:56 ... than there are in all of the wild of the world.

Forrest Galante 49:00 Isn't that insane?

Joe Rogan 49:01 Just Texas.

Forrest Galante 49:01 And that's like in guys' living rooms in, you know, a cage.

Joe Rogan 49:04 Hee-haw.

Forrest Galante 49:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:06 Feed 'em a steak.

Forrest Galante 49:07 Yeah. (laughs) It's nuts.

Joe Rogan 49:08 Yeah, it is nuts.

Forrest Galante 49:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:09 Their- their rules there are so strange. It's also, that's one of the rare states where the vast majority of the state is private land.

Forrest Galante 49:17 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 49:17 There's very little public land in Texas.

Forrest Galante 49:19 So, like, for yourself, when you go hunting there, it's all private?

Joe Rogan 49:22 Yes.

Forrest Galante 49:23 Oh, interesting.

Joe Rogan 49:23 If you're gonna hunt in Texas, you're gonna hunt most likely on a private ranch. There's some small patches of public land-

Forrest Galante 49:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:29 ... but in comparison, I think more the... I think it's in the 90% range.

Forrest Galante 49:33 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Yeah, that, that's... It's all giant ranches.

Forrest Galante 49:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:37 And what's really interesting is, uh, I, I've been reading a lot about... Over the last two, uh, to three months, I've been obsessed with, uh, Wild West stories, from, uh... Oh, did you put that book away? Empire of the Summer Moon, um, uh, S.C. Gwynn wrote this, uh, fantastic book about the Comanches.

Forrest Galante 49:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:55 And, uh, their... The, the battle with, uh, the people in Texas and the Texas Rangers in the 1800s, and trying to, uh, trying to take over that land from the Comanches. It's crazy-

Forrest Galante 50:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:08 ... that this stuff happened just, you know, 150 years ago.

Forrest Galante 50:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:12 It was so insane, and really sad.

Forrest Galante 50:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Really sad, because there's something incredibly romantic about their lifestyle that was just 150 years ago, when all of Europe, they were, you know, having horse-driven carriages-

Forrest Galante 50:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:28 ... and people were living in these fancy buildings. But right here in North America, people were living like they were in the Stone Age.

Forrest Galante 50:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:35 And they had this incredible nomadic, nomadic life, where they were following around the buffalo and killing the buffalo, and they, they, they were all just about war.

Forrest Galante 50:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:44 They were this wild, ferocious tribe that was about war and hunting buffalos.

Forrest Galante 50:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:50 It's, um, it's fucking amazing, man.

Forrest Galante 50:51 And that's, like, while our great-grandparents-

Joe Rogan 50:53 Yes.

Forrest Galante 50:53 ... were walking the Earth.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Yes.

Forrest Galante 50:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Really recent.

Forrest Galante 50:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:57 You know, I mean, they, they kind of... They, they s- put the kibosh on it all by the time it was, like, 1870s-

Forrest Galante 51:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:03 ... in that range. That's when they, they eventually moved them all onto reservations.

Forrest Galante 51:07 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:07 But fucking A. And not the Comanches, the Comanches, they never moved into reservations.

Forrest Galante 51:10 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 51:11 They just gave them plots of land.

Forrest Galante 51:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:13 They, they, to this day, don't have a reservation, but-

Forrest Galante 51:15 And bad land, is my understanding.

Joe Rogan 51:16 Terrible.

Forrest Galante 51:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Assholes.

Forrest Galante 51:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:18 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 51:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:18 But they were assholes to each other, too.

Forrest Galante 51:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:20 That's what's really fucked up. Like, you, you get this idea that, like, the Natives all lived in peace and harmony, and the, you n- you know, the Europeans came over and they fucked everything up.

Forrest Galante 51:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:29 They were killing each other left and right.

Forrest Galante 51:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:31 They were, the, the... Tribes would raid on other tribes, and they would... I mean, horrific things. And this guy goes into amazing detail about the way they would torture, uh, both captives from other tribes and Europeans and anybody-

Forrest Galante 51:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:48 ... that was... They would cut their legs off, they would cut their arms off, throw them on the fire-

Forrest Galante 51:51 Oh, gnarly.

Joe Rogan 51:52 ... watch them wiggle around while they were still alive. Like, wild shit, man. And he said that he even left some of it out 'cause it was so distasteful.

Forrest Galante 52:00 Really?

Joe Rogan 52:00 He was like... Yeah, he was trying to figure out, like, how he could put it in a book and literally not have people vomit.

Forrest Galante 52:05 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 52:05 Yeah, so, it's fucking amazing, though. But that's... This whole country, this whole continent used to be this wild ecosystem of human beings riding horses-

Forrest Galante 52:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:19 ... chasing buffalo, all these animals all over the place.

Forrest Galante 52:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:22 I mean, during the, the 150-plus years, or 250-plus years, they, they eradicated so many animals.

Forrest Galante 52:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:31 They extirpated them from so many different parts of the country, and then market hunting came in.

Forrest Galante 52:35 Yep.

Joe Rogan 52:36 And they just, just almost wiped out, like, so many different species of North American animals.

Forrest Galante 52:41 A- and not just almost, but did. You know, like, pre-human settlement, they say that the North American continent had more biomass, like larger game and more abundant megafauna than the plains of Africa.

Joe Rogan 52:52 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 52:52 You know, huge animals ra- roaming around, and, and, you know, European settlement a- and Native American settlement, it's all, it's all attributed to the decline. But things like, more recently, like, the passenger pigeon.

Joe Rogan 53:04 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 53:04 Right? Billions-

Joe Rogan 53:05 Billions.

Forrest Galante 53:05 ... billions. Used to black out the sky.

Joe Rogan 53:07 Used to black out the sky, yeah.

Forrest Galante 53:08 Yeah, and down to zero.

Joe Rogan 53:09 How the fuck did they do that?

Forrest Galante 53:10 I honestly... Like, I know by reading, but I personally don't know. You know what I mean? How do you kill-

Joe Rogan 53:16 Confusing.

Forrest Galante 53:16 ... billions of birds?

Joe Rogan 53:17 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 53:18 And it... That, that gets intricate, because the animals' ecology is such that it needs many others. You know, their, their tactic is confusion. Like, they don't, they don't run away. They just get in a big giant flock, and then you're like-

Joe Rogan 53:30 You can't kill them all.

Forrest Galante 53:30 ... "Oh, I don't know which one to pick." But, so that made them easier to hunt, and there was commercial... They, they'd actually hunt them commercially for meat. It was cheap meat, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it just... It's crazy to think that we're able to wipe out billions of anything in such a short amount of time.

Joe Rogan 53:44 Well, we came real close to doing it to the buffalo.

Forrest Galante 53:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:47 And some of those... Well, the bison, I should say. Some of those images of those bison skulls, like, stacked up-

Forrest Galante 53:52 Piles, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:53 ... like a mountain, it's really disturbing.

Forrest Galante 53:55 It used to be, you know, considered entertainment to shoot them from the railway as you were traveling across the country for fun.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Yep, just watch them drop.

Forrest Galante 54:02 Like, you just kind of hang out the window and, "Boom, got one."

Joe Rogan 54:04 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 54:04 Ha ha.

Joe Rogan 54:05 Well, the other thing is that they would go and they'd... Mostly what they would take from them is their tongues.

Forrest Galante 54:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:10 Which is crazy. It's the best meat in the world. And they wouldn't even eat the meat.

Forrest Galante 54:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:14 They would shoot them and take their tongues, and they would pickle their tongues.

Forrest Galante 54:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:18 And they would use the fur. They would, you know, sell the hides and make buffalo capes and all this different shit.

Forrest Galante 54:24 (laughs) It just shows what abundance we had.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 54:27 You know what I mean? Nowadays, a- not that I'm pro wiping out anything, but nowadays, you have a small population of whatever this, the animal is, and most people are utilizing every part of it-

Joe Rogan 54:37 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 54:37 ... right? Because we don't have that crazy abundance. Like, imagine if you just went out... Like, like you, for instance. Imagine if you just went out to shoot elk for the tongue.

Joe Rogan 54:45 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 54:45 It doesn't make any sense, right?

Joe Rogan 54:46 It's crazy.

Forrest Galante 54:46 Like, why on Earth would you ever consider doing that? But if, if you looked out of the studio here, and you saw 200 of them, you'd be like, "Yeah, right, I might grab a tongue today." Right? That's the difference.

Joe Rogan 54:56 Make a taco.

Forrest Galante 54:56 Yeah. (laughs) It's the difference of the abundance.

Joe Rogan 54:59 Yeah, well, there, there were basically two elk, right? A bison's, like, twice the size of an elk.

Forrest Galante 55:04 Yeah. Yeah, they're enormous.

Joe Rogan 55:04 It's so ridiculous that they just cut the tongue out.

Forrest Galante 55:06 It's awful.

Joe Rogan 55:07 It is.

Forrest Galante 55:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:08 And, and it... It's also crazy because it's such a... it's such an iconic symbol of the American West. My friend Steve Ranello wrote a great book.

Forrest Galante 55:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:15 It's called American Buffalo.

Forrest Galante 55:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:17 And, uh, he actually did the audio version of it, too, and he's a really good narrator. It's, it's excellent.

Forrest Galante 55:23 I'll check it out.

Joe Rogan 55:23 You gotta listen to that book, but it's all about the history of the Plains tribes and North American buffalo and...Fuck, man.

Forrest Galante 55:29 What, sorry, what'd you say it's called? I'm gonna write it down.

Joe Rogan 55:30 It's called American Buffalo.

Forrest Galante 55:31 American Buffalo.

Joe Rogan 55:32 The, get the audio version if you're into audio books-

Forrest Galante 55:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:35 ... because he reads it and he does an amazing job and it's his book. And he actually had sold it, and then someone else had, um, got the rights t-, uh, you know, the, whatever the book company had decided to have, uh, an actor read it.

Forrest Galante 55:49 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 55:50 And i- it was terrible, apparently-

Forrest Galante 55:51 So he just did it.

Joe Rogan 55:52 ... according to Steve.

Forrest Galante 55:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Yeah. He was like, "It was terrible." And then 10 years later, the rights, he got the rights back, and then he was able to-

Forrest Galante 55:58 Oh, great.

Joe Rogan 55:58 ... do it himself.

Forrest Galante 55:59 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 56:00 I fly so much, audio books are my best friend. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:02 Oh, man, I love them.

Forrest Galante 56:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:04 I've been, I haven't listened to podcasts in months. Uh, like the last two months have been mostly listening to audio books. I mean, I have a little bit, but-

Forrest Galante 56:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:10 ... mostly just audio books. Yeah.

Forrest Galante 56:12 Yeah. You ever done The Power of One?

Joe Rogan 56:14 Oh, yeah. I've read, uh, that was a couple years ago. Yeah.

Forrest Galante 56:17 It's one of my favorites. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:18 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 56:18 It's a great audio book too.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Who's-

Forrest Galante 56:19 'Cause I, I read it.

Joe Rogan 56:20 Who's the author of that again?

Forrest Galante 56:21 Ugh, I don't recall. I think he's kind of a one-hit wonder with that book and I can't remember his name, but, um, love, absolutely love the story.

Joe Rogan 56:28 Pull that up, Jamie. See what's up.

Jamie Vernon 56:31 Movie came up first.

Joe Rogan 56:32 A movie?

Forrest Galante 56:33 They made a movie?

Jamie Vernon 56:34 That's not, not about that.

Joe Rogan 56:35 Probably like some Kung Fu movie.

Forrest Galante 56:36 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:38 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 56:38 The Power of One.

Joe Rogan 56:39 The Power of One.

Forrest Galante 56:39 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:39 Do, do, do.

Forrest Galante 56:40 Bryce Courtenay. That's right. Bryce Courtenay.

Joe Rogan 56:42 Can you pull up the image of the book? What's the description of the book? What does it say?

Jamie Vernon 56:53 Ch- sh-

Joe Rogan 56:54 Is that it? The Power of One is everything.

Forrest Galante 56:57 Unless there's a novel I actually might not get it. Uh-

Joe Rogan 56:58 Suspense. No, I don't think that's it.

Forrest Galante 57:00 Uh-

Joe Rogan 57:01 No, that's definitely not it.

Jamie Vernon 57:04 Clayton, I don't know then.

Forrest Galante 57:05 No, no, it's the Bryce Courtenay one for sure. The b- it, it is about, it's about a young boy growing up in Africa-

Joe Rogan 57:11 So, it is a novel?

Forrest Galante 57:12 Yeah, I've only-

Joe Rogan 57:13 Okay, I'm confused.

Forrest Galante 57:13 I, I read it first and then I, then I listened to the-

Joe Rogan 57:16 All right, I'm confused. So, I, uh, no, I have not read this.

Forrest Galante 57:18 Oh, okay. It's very good. S-

Joe Rogan 57:20 There's a, there's something that has a similar title that's like, a self-help book.

Jamie Vernon 57:24 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 57:25 Oh, no. This is not a self-help book.

Joe Rogan 57:26 Okay.

Forrest Galante 57:26 This is, this is about a young boy growing up in Africa, um, during apartheid. He's very like, ostracized from his peers because he's not... I, I believe, I'd have to listen to it again, because he's not, you know, Boer, he's not a Dutch African, he's English African. And, uh, it's just, it's cr- his journey through life basically, and it's really good.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Mm.

Forrest Galante 57:46 Yeah. But it, it, what reminded me of it is we were talking about all the wildlife and he grows up very much so in the bush, in Africa, and around wildlife, and you know, he's juggling that and a, and a kind of defunct social system. And it's, it's really good.

Joe Rogan 57:58 Africa is so special. It's such a, uh, when- whenever I watch documentaries on Africa and African wildlife, you're just like, "What a crazy place."

Forrest Galante 58:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:07 Where all the nutty things live. You know?

Forrest Galante 58:09 (laughs) Right, pretty much.

Joe Rogan 58:10 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 58:10 And a lot of them too.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 58:11 That's what's great, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:12 I mean, we have some nutty things here. We have mountain lions, and grizzlies, and stuff like that.

Forrest Galante 58:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:16 But it ain't shit compared to what they have in Africa.

Forrest Galante 58:18 There's no, you know, having walked kinda through the wild basic- in a lot of different places, there's nowhere I've been like Africa, where you're so like, "Okay, I'm just a part of the food system now."

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 58:29 Like, "I'm not at the top anymore." Like, "I'm in the food web." You know? Lions can be hunting me, elephants can charge, uh, there's leopards in the trees. You know what I mean? You're just like, you just fit into the food web, you're not at the top of it any longer.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Yeah, it's such a w- a weird place too when it comes to wildlife, when, you know, they brought so many animals back from the brink of extinction a- on- only because they have value for hunting.

Forrest Galante 58:52 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 58:53 It's so, it's so torn, you're, everyone's so torn on that because it's, on one hand, like you would, you would love it if people donated enough money to keep these animals healthy and, uh, y- keep them in good populations because we appreciate them.

Forrest Galante 59:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:06 But that's not really the case. It's mostly people that wanna shoot them that are paying money, and because they have value, now their populations are so large.

Forrest Galante 59:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 59:16 And so everyone's like, really torn on that. They're like, "Ugh, this is weird." And it's-

Forrest Galante 59:20 Even hunters are torn on it.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Because-

Forrest Galante 59:22 And it's full spectrum be- sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Joe Rogan 59:24 No, it's okay because they're all fenced in, I was gonna say.

Forrest Galante 59:26 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 59:26 So it's not, like when you think of hunting, you think of, "I'm going to go to the wild."

Forrest Galante 59:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:31 "And I'm gonna experience these animals." But no, these animals like, they're making sure there's a large population of them because Mike from Cleveland-

Forrest Galante 59:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... is coming over there with his Creedmoor and he's gonna, you know, shoot some.

Forrest Galante 59:41 Yeah. And it's such a spectrum is what I was going to say because you have these national parks that absolutely do work, people pay enough money for tourism, ecotourism dollars to do photo safaris, and the wildlife's managed.

Joe Rogan 59:52 Mm-hmm.

Forrest Galante 59:53 You have these other areas that are managed by hunting dollars and they're managed beautifully well, they're sustaining animals, they're, they're reproducing them and they're, they're putting them in other habitats and ecosystems in parts of Africa. And then you have ones that are supposed to be managed properly both from ecotourism and hunting dollars, and they're just, uh, they're funding people's pockets, the animals are getting devastated, it's super unethical-

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Mm.

Forrest Galante 1:00:14 ... and it's, and everything in between. And that's the problem with Africa is like, you know, I'm all for hunting as a tool for conservation if it keeps the species around and keeps the, the animals up, but you gotta be careful where you're going and where those dollars are going because it's so easy to line someone's pocket and it never returns to the species.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Yeah, there's a giant issue with corruption there.

Forrest Galante 1:00:33 Huge.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 1:00:33 Huge. Yeah. I mean, the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Then we have poverty, right?

Forrest Galante 1:00:36 Yeah. Uh, where I grew up in Zimbabwe, the Mugabe regime, I mean, it's, it's notorious for being as corrupt as it was, and you know, created violence and, um, uprisings, and that's why my family came here because we got thrown off our land and like, crazy stuff. It's, it's very, very corrupt. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Yeah, it's, it's a wild place, man. You know-

Forrest Galante 1:00:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 ... my buddy Justin Bran runs this charity, uh, do you know who he is?

Forrest Galante 1:00:59 I don't, no.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Runs Fight for the Forgotten. They build wells for the Pygmies and-

Forrest Galante 1:01:03 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 ... we work with them with the Cash App and they built-

Forrest Galante 1:01:06 He came back with a terrible disease.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Yes.

Forrest Galante 1:01:08 I heard that on one of your podcasts.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 Yes.

Forrest Galante 1:01:10 He...

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 He doesn't know what it is. They don't know what it is. He's got some crazy parasite in his-

Forrest Galante 1:01:13 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 They think it might be in his brain.

Forrest Galante 1:01:14 Oh, boy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Not only that, he goes so deep into the Congo that they feel like it might be an undiscovered parasite.

Forrest Galante 1:01:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 Yeah, like he might be the first one, so it'd be-

Forrest Galante 1:01:24 I shouldn't laugh. It's like that's the worst way to find a new species ever.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 That's terrible.

Forrest Galante 1:01:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 He, it's been going on for six months.

Forrest Galante 1:01:30 And he's, he's like in really poor health?

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 He's all fucked up, yeah.

Forrest Galante 1:01:33 Gotcha.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 He, he, and he's a fighter for Bellator. He's one of their top-

Forrest Galante 1:01:36 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 ... heavyweights.

Forrest Galante 1:01:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 And so, you know, he's in the prime of his career and he can't really work out right.

Forrest Galante 1:01:41 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 Like he'll, he'll work out and then he'll break out into cold sweats, and they have to get him in the shower and, and you know, heat his body up. Like it's, it's a mess. It's really bad. And the, uh, you know, the drugs that they put them on ... The other thing is when you're on antibiotics, um, one of the side effect of some antibiotics, like Cipro-

Forrest Galante 1:02:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 ... is that your ligaments, uh, get weak.

Forrest Galante 1:02:05 Oof.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Yeah. And so he's a fucking cage fighter.

Forrest Galante 1:02:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Right?

Forrest Galante 1:02:08 That's not an option.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 So he's tearing his shoulders, like both-

Forrest Galante 1:02:10 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 ... of his shoulders are fucked up now, um, because your, your connective tissue is just not as strong because of the ... You know, our whole system apparently, I mean I really don't know what I'm talking about, but apparently our whole system is fueled, uh, sort of, it's, it's one gigantic unit. And so when you do something like you introduce antibiotics and you crush all these invading diseases-

Forrest Galante 1:02:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... or these invading, um, b- bacteria or what- whatever the fuck, staph or whatever, whatever's fucking with you.

Forrest Galante 1:02:43 Right, the microorganisms, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 Yeah, all the, the microbiome.

Forrest Galante 1:02:46 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Your, the rest of your body gets devastated as well.

Forrest Galante 1:02:49 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 Including like people who are prone, more prone to depression afterwards.

Forrest Galante 1:02:53 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 And Dr. Rhonda Patrick was talking about that. She had a staph infection and it screwed her up for a long time.

Forrest Galante 1:02:58 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Just because her whole body was outta whack from the antibiotics. 'Cause you know when you get staph, they're worried about you're gonna die.

Forrest Galante 1:03:05 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 So they just pump you full of anything that k- tries to kill.

Forrest Galante 1:03:08 Of course. It-

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 1:03:10 ... moral of the story, no, no good deed goes unpunished.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 1:03:12 You know, don't try to help people. (laughs) It's terr- like it's ... I'm kidding.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 I know, that's the, I know.

Forrest Galante 1:03:16 I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 He's got malaria three times too.

Forrest Galante 1:03:18 Oh, geez.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 1:03:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Fuck.

Forrest Galante 1:03:20 But I bet he's passionate about what he does and, you know, he's made a, he's made an impact, so ...

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 The most passionate.

Forrest Galante 1:03:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 He, he's like the most generous person I've ever met in my life.

Forrest Galante 1:03:27 That's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Every time I'm, I talk to him I feel like a selfish piece of shit.

Forrest Galante 1:03:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 'Cause he's just go, he's dedicating his whole life and everything is for other people.

Forrest Galante 1:03:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Everything is for the Congo, everything is for the pygmies.

Forrest Galante 1:03:36 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 It's fucking amazing.

Forrest Galante 1:03:37 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 It is.

Forrest Galante 1:03:38 It really is. Very admirable.

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 However, he's fucked.

Forrest Galante 1:03:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 Like you said, like they don't know what ... And they think it might be in his brain-

Forrest Galante 1:03:44 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 ... which is a, a giant issue, obviously.

Forrest Galante 1:03:46 Of course, yeah. Geez.

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 I mean, and obviously if it's in his brain, I mean depending upon what kind of parasite it is, it could be growing.

Forrest Galante 1:03:54 (sighs) It's just-

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Right?

Forrest Galante 1:03:55 Yeah. I hate parasites. It's like the one thing that makes my skin crawl.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 That's weird 'cause I love them.

Forrest Galante 1:04:00 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 (laughs)

Forrest Galante 1:04:00 Yeah, I'm sure they're your favorite, yeah. (laughs) They're just-

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Who's, who's out there like, "Man, I love parasites. I mean birds are cool, but-"

Forrest Galante 1:04:06 But fucking parasites.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 "... parasites is where it's at."

Forrest Galante 1:04:08 (laughs) I had a professor like that in college, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Really?

Forrest Galante 1:04:10 Yeah, he was a parasitologist. He loved them.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 Oh, well-

Forrest Galante 1:04:14 He was obsessed.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 ... it's a field of study.

Forrest Galante 1:04:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Yeah.

Forrest Galante 1:04:16 Yeah, yeah. Um, so the last time I saw you, I think was right before we headed to the Galapagos. I was telling you about-

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Oh, yes.

Forrest Galante 1:04:22 ... that crazy island we went on.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Yes.

Forrest Galante 1:04:23 We found that tortoise. Did you know that?

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 Really?

Forrest Galante 1:04:25 Yeah. First, only one specimen has ever been found before 114 years ago, and we found the second one. We s- we, the, the, the biggest discovery of my entire career was the week after I saw you last.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Wow.

Forrest Galante 1:04:38 Yeah. It was amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 What kind of tortoise is this?

Forrest Galante 1:04:41 The Fernandina Island tortoise, big Galapagos tortoise on this crazy active volcano on far remote Galapagos. We had gnarly sunstroke, heatstroke, I mean everything, and after a few days of hiking up and down this volcano, we, we found scat and then we found a, a dig like a tortoise had been digging, and 15 minutes later we found the animal.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 Well, I mean how many of them are in the wild?

Forrest Galante 1:05:02 There's a return trip that just, one return trip just went right now, and then another one will go in January. But what's great is on the first return trip, they had to bail because of weather, and the weather is very harsh there. Um, they found evidence of two more animals, so things are looking really good.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 So there might be like four alive on the planet?

Forrest Galante 1:05:22 W- well right now there's one, the one we found.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Ah.

Forrest Galante 1:05:24 She's literally the rarest animal in the world.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Let me, do you have an image of this?

Forrest Galante 1:05:28 Uh, there's, it's on my-

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 On Instagram?

Forrest Galante 1:05:29 ... Instagram, but it was on Forbes, Times New York, you know, everywhere. It was like big, big stuff, so you can-

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 So-

Forrest Galante 1:05:34 ... look up Fernandina Island tortoise, you'll find it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 ... when you find something like that, what gets done to ensure the, the population remains?

Forrest Galante 1:05:41 There she is.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 There it is. Wow.

Forrest Galante 1:05:42 We got little pigments.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 So how did you know? What i- what's the distinguishing, uh,