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Joe Rogan Experience #1408 - Ed Calderon

Ed Calderon is a security specialist and combatives instructor with over 10 years experience in public safety along the northern border area of Mexico. Follow him online @EdsManifesto http://edsmanifesto.com

Joe RoganhostEd Calderonguest
Jan 8, 20201h 55mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:0015:00

    Welcome back, Ed. Good…

    1. JR

      Welcome back, Ed. Good to see you again, man.

    2. EC

      Thank you for having me back.

    3. JR

      Well, I'm, I'm happy you're back, but I'm not happy that there was motivation to bring you back based on the violence. You know, the violence that is going on between, uh, the cartels and it was the Mormons, and then, it was, we were just talking about this, uh, other person that got shot because they ran... What, would you explain that again? They were ran a cartel roadblock?

    4. EC

      Yeah. Basically, in Tamaulipas, a lot of the cartel groups actually make, uh, they, they build their roadblocks in the, on the, s- state and, and local roads. And according to what I've heard from some of the people that I know there, uh, this family, uh, ran one of those roadblocks. They didn't know if it was cops or not, and they apparently decided to run the roadblock and they, the, the cartel guys shot them.

    5. JR

      What should someone do if they encounter a cartel roadblock?

    6. EC

      Uh, slow down. Um, I mean, if, if, uh, if anything, I would probably avoid traveling through those areas. That's the number one-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. EC

      ... avoidance. Um, usually, you know, and I've actually gone through some of those myself.

    9. JR

      Really?

    10. EC

      Yeah. And it's, uh, it's all about... They're all, they're all, they're, they're looking out for the, for rivals moving through their territory. They're looking for government personnel maybe spying on them. And, uh, usually it en- usually they'll just shake you down for some money and they'll, uh, let you go on your way unless you have a 4x4 truck they can use for their, you know, their own purposes, which is-

    11. JR

      Oh, they might take your truck?

    12. EC

      Yeah. Uh, they're, uh, specifically in Tamaulipas, uh, uh, 4x4 trucks are a commodity for them. They use them for their ongoing, you know, turf war.

    13. JR

      Oh, right, especially someone else's. Th- they don't mind getting shot up.

    14. EC

      (laughs) Yeah. I mean, uh, m- most of the trucks that you see w- that are arm- up armored or they have the rifles on top are usually stolen vehicles. Um, all of them are stolen vehicles and a lot of them are, you know, Americans crossing into Mexico. Some of them are Amer- Americans crossing into Mexico and just getting their truck stolen.

    15. JR

      Jesus Chr- is that... That's a real common thing?

    16. EC

      It's- it's- it's- it's starting to be pretty common. Um, uh, I recently saw a case of an- of an apparent abduction, uh, in, uh, in- in Tamaulipas. Um, you see the video and- and- and the cartel guys come out of the car, they grab the- the- the- the owner of a- of a- of a pickup truck. They get him out of the car, they take his cell phone, leave it on the sidewalk because they're- they're aware of all the SOS technology and they take him inside a- in- inside of another car and they take the truck. And you thought... You know, you would think, you know, it's- it's because he did something or he's- he's- he's involved in something. They let him go a few blocks later and just took the truck. It was all about the truck.

    17. JR

      Wow.

    18. EC

      Yeah. It's resources. You know, they're just, uh, acquiring resources for their- for their war basically.

    19. JR

      Nice of them to let him go.

    20. EC

      Nice of them to let him go.

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. EC

      You know? (laughs) It's not always the ca- it's not always the case, but it's pretty... Yeah.

    23. JR

      I think most people in America are just now waking up to the chaos that's going on down there. I think that, uh, the Mormon assassination was a real wake-up call, but I think, uh, people are paying much more attention now. I mean, we've- we talked about this. When was the last time you were on? It was like five months?

    24. EC

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Something like that.

    26. EC

      A- a lot of the stuff we talked about those five months ago, uh, kind of that's how things progressed.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. EC

      We actually did mention the Mormon communities-

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. EC

      ... down there, which was kind of eerie.

  2. 15:0030:00

    Mm-hmm. …

    1. EC

      to guide us towards a place where things could stabilize down there. And a lot of it is not going to be able to be done in Mexico. It's going to have to be done up here, right? Um, basically, you know, one, you, you have to take care, the US has to take care of the drug market up here, the illegal drug market. And certain things that have happened like legalization of marijuana, marijuana in some of the, some places up here have changed the dynamics of what happens down there. Some for the better, some for the, some bad, some bad things have happened. Um, talking to, uh, my friend Jon Norris, who was on here as well.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. EC

      And just comparing notes, seeing how a lot of the drug, uh, grows that are up here, the pot, illegal pot grows that are up here are exactly like the ones that I found in Baja six, seven years ago. And how some of that drug money made from those fields are, is staying in, in the US, it's not being sent back. So that means you have an active growing cartel presence in the US that is US based. So I think the, the, one of the, the problems that people have is perception is that that's a Mexican problem. It's a, it's a US/Mexico problem. You know, you have a border there, but the problem has two root causes, right? Social, economic inequality and destabilization and corrupt government down there, and a thriving illegal drug market up here. And, you know, those two have to be solved to se- I mean, to, in a, in a, in a combined way.

    4. JR

      How many members, uh, when you combine all the cartels-

    5. EC

      (coughs)

    6. JR

      ... how many members are we talking about?

    7. EC

      That's, I mean, it's pretty hard to put a number on how m-

    8. JR

      Just rough.

    9. EC

      I, I will say this.

    10. JR

      More than a million?

    11. EC

      I will say this, they defeated the Mexican army in Sinaloa.

    12. JR

      Yeah, that was bananas.

    13. EC

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      When they captured El Chapo's son-

    15. EC

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      ... and then the army gave it back.

    17. EC

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      They're like, "Yeah, you can have him back."

    19. EC

      Well, and-

    20. JR

      "Sorry."

    21. EC

      Uh, the, that, that whole situation, uh, and it was like, I, I remember, uh, that was happening and I was getting asked questions about it and it was live, it was-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. EC

      ... all of a sudden, all of a sudden just popped off, you know. Um, basically a, supposedly, the official story from the Mexican government is that they send a special police unit to capture him, right? Which is completely false, I think, because you don't send 35 agents to capture one of the, the heads of one of the biggest Sinaloa cartel cells, right? So it's pretty much, uh, by chance they spotted this party, people were around there, they went there, all of a sudden El Chapo's son is there.

    24. JR

      So you think they just stumbled into him?

    25. EC

      There's a... I, I posted a video on my, on my feed of the capture of, uh, of this, of, of, uh, El Chapo's son and you can see it. And you can see the surprise and really how the agents are kind of uncomfortable or are fearful of what they just stumbled on. Um, imagine US agents stumble in on one of the, um, America's most wanted individuals up here. They're gonna put him on the ground, they're gonna handcuff him.

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. EC

      In the video, you can see that they point their rifles at him and he calmly takes out his gun and hands it to somebody inside of the, inside of the house he was in and walks out and kind of tries to negotiate with the people outside, the federal agents that are trying to arrest him.And you can see that the agents are like, "Oh, what did we stumble in on?"

    28. JR

      Whoa.

    29. EC

      Right? So, that happened. They grabbed him, they reported back to Mexico, they captured him. They started to announce the capture and his brother, um, uh, his half-brother, Archibaldo, basically called in all of the reinforcements from all surrounding towns and regions in Sinaloa and it was flooded with a bunch of armed cartel guys. All of Sinaloa was.

    30. JR

      Wasn't there a video of the government people and the cartel people talking? Oh-

  3. 30:0045:00

    Fuck. …

    1. EC

      you know, group or operation was. But at the same time you started seeing, you know, the DEA and- and the- and the US government, uh, uh, condecorating and- and putting all these awards on a guy like Luna, who was the guy that got arrested recently, who was head of s- security down in Mexico. And now all of a sudden he's, no, no, he's not. You know, he was recognized by the US government as being a player for, uh, the good guys and now he's arrested. So you start seeing all these, you know, different interests, different political, uh, political kind of m- m- movements around the drug war and what that turned into.And, uh, you know, you don't know what, you don't know what to think, right? Each an- each also ... Each US administration has changed the way they do things in ... when it comes to the drug war and also benefits certain groups down there. So, you know, who knows, realistically.

    2. JR

      Fuck.

    3. EC

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      It's just, you know, I, I went to Chichen Itza, I think, in 2000-ish, 2002, maybe, 2003, somewhere ar- around the, that time. And there was no concern.

    5. EC

      Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a different time, yeah.

    6. JR

      That's ... But that's 16-

    7. EC

      I know.

    8. JR

      17 years ago.

    9. EC

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      That's so recent in terms of, like, human history.

    11. EC

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      That a region changes so radically, so quickly.

    13. EC

      Well, it's, it's, it's ... There's a lot of things happening, you know. Um, there's a lot of interest ... (bottle clinks) China has a lot of interest in Mexico and, um, you go back and you see something like the- (coughs) I'm sorry. Um, you see things like the, uh, the whole, um, how some, uh, armed groups started popping up, uh, uh, in Mexico in the Michoacán area fighting back against the cartels. The, uh, the whole ... There was, like, a s- a series, uh, like a documentary on them. The, uh, the, uh, Autodefensas, they were, they were called, basically, like vigilante groups. And then, you ... Later on, you realize that they were all fighting for basically protecting or inc- ... uh, or working around security for illegal Chinese ore miner- mining in the area.

    14. JR

      Whoa.

    15. EC

      Yeah. They w- ... It's all ... It was all about, uh, Chinese ore mining, uh, uh, iron ore mining, illegal Chinese ore mine- mining in the area.

    16. JR

      So the Chinese ore miners, they just made a deal.

    17. EC

      Yeah. And then, you know, "Uh, we can get in on it, so let's arm all these guys and we're, we're, we're protecting our communities," but they were-

    18. JR

      Holy shit.

    19. EC

      Yeah, there was a lot of that going on. Not all of them, but a lot of ... There was a lot of shady stuff going on in the region, uh, when it comes to that. Now you see things like the stuff that's going on in Sonora, and there's a lot of lithium there. That's pretty valuable thing, you know.

    20. JR

      Yeah. Sonora is a place that a lot of hunters go.

    21. EC

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      Sonora has these big hunting ranches and it's like ... It's famous for giant mule deer.

    23. EC

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. EC

      Yeah, it's a ... Uh, I've been up, out there hunting myself and it's a, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful part, part of Mexico.

    26. JR

      But that seems like a sketchy spot to be venturing into.

    27. EC

      But it's for ... It's perfect because it's, uh ... It's perfect for them because it's rural so there's nobody around.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. EC

      Uh ...

    30. JR

      But if you were, like, a guy from Texas wanting to drive your truck down there to go hunting.

  4. 45:001:00:00

    And it's the first…

    1. JR

    2. EC

      And it's the first year of the administration of this new president, right, who has been trying to-

    3. JR

      Hugs.

    4. EC

      Hugs, uh, hugs and not, not bullets. (Spanish) . You know, this instead of that. Uh, his- it's been his first year. And, you know, "Hey, give him a chance. He's, he's, he's, he's doing whatever he needs to do."

    5. JR

      It's only the most violent year in history.

    6. EC

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Cut the guy a break.

    8. EC

      Exactly. That's what they say. But then I go down there and I have a lot of, a lot of my friends that are still down there, people that have trained, uh, still down there, and I hear from them directly. Like, I have some, uh, young kids that are in the j- gendarmeria, which is like a federal police force that, uh, patrols all of Mexico. And some of the federal, federal police guys, they tell me like, "Ed, we're ... " Th- they, they said, "Or you sign the new contract to be guardia nacional and lower your pay, and all of your, all of the stuff that, all of your benefits will be gone, or you just stay on here in limbo and just stay at the base." And a lot of them are staying at the base, so it's nothing's, nothing's, nothing's, nothing's being done, basically.

    9. JR

      Well, and I imagine that if it seems overwhelming and it seems helpless and it seems like the cartels are just taking over and they're making a shitload of money, and you're not making any money, I mean, that, that is the real crazy thing about it, right? They're ... If the, the government is asking people in this sort of already compromised situation and environment, asking them to work for a small amount of money to go after people that are making a tremendous amount of money-

    10. EC

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... and you're gonna be at war with these people, and these people, they're basically your neighbors.

    12. EC

      Yeah. And also, you go there with a federal uniform, as part of the federal government, you go into a community where you- the federal government doesn't do anything for them.

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. EC

      The church is made by the cartels.

    15. JR

      Cartel made the road.

    16. EC

      Christmas was brought, brought to you by the cartels, you know. Um, th- they, they are the good guys, so these guys come in here like, "Who are these guys? Like, what are they doing here?"

    17. JR

      (exhales)

    18. EC

      "We're not gonna ..." So that's, you know-

    19. JR

      God.

    20. EC

      ... it's, it's, it's, it's, it is, it's a, it's a mess. It's a mess.

    21. JR

      Wow. But w- could boots on the ground actually fix anything?

    22. EC

      (sighs) I mean, uh, I'm not a, and I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a military expert, uh, but, uh, there has to be some sort of outside force that is completely uncompromised by cartel, uh, money and influence, and-

    23. JR

      How long before they compromise those people?

    24. EC

      Well, uh, when you put the Marines on the border, uh, a few of them got picked up on smuggling people, uh, from the border, so, you know?

    25. JR

      Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

    26. EC

      You know, who knows? (laughs)

    27. JR

      (laughs) Just ...

    28. EC

      Uh, it's- it's, uh, and- it's also a- it's a different war field, because a lot of, you know, a lot of our war fighters and law enforcement are- have some sort of blood ties to Mexico.

    29. JR

      Mm. Of course.

    30. EC

      And-

  5. 1:00:001:15:00

    But, you know, it,…

    1. JR

      20 years ago, he was peeing on little kids.

    2. EC

      But, you know, it, and now it gives people like a, a, it, it's interesting. You see-

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. EC

      ... you see fictionalized forms of stuff that happened down there. The Narcos show as well is another thing, you know, see fictionalized things of-

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. EC

      ... how some of these powerful cartel groups kind of originated themselves in fiction. And now that is in the public, uh, kind of domain as far as collective knowledge. So people start asking questions and some of these things, and apparently people in power also ask questions as well.

    7. JR

      Jesus Christ.

    8. EC

      (coughs)

    9. JR

      It's just, uh, it's so strange how popular it's become, you know, and, uh, it's such a, uh, a popular focal point of fiction as well.

    10. EC

      And, uh, and, and fashion, you know?

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. EC

      El Chapo's picture with, uh, Sean Penn.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. EC

      The shirt was like-

    15. JR

      Uh-huh.

    16. EC

      ... fire.

    17. JR

      Beautiful.

    18. EC

      Everybody wanted that shirt.

    19. JR

      You know that, uh, Conor McGregor like wore something to mimic it when, on purpose when he was-

    20. EC

      Okay.

    21. JR

      ... pro- in the press conference for Rafael dos Anjos. Did you know that?

    22. EC

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard something about it.

    23. JR

      He even stood, he stood in the same stance. Like look at him, look at him.

    24. EC

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      I mean, he's doing it on purpose.

    26. EC

      Yeah, that's, that's-

    27. JR

      It's like a subtle-

    28. EC

      ... that's El Chapo.

    29. JR

      ... nod to El Chapo.

    30. EC

      Yeah. I mean, he's a, he, he, El Chapo has achieved legendary status. Now-

  6. 1:15:001:15:36

    I, yes, that's another…

    1. JR

      English.

    2. EC

      I, yes, that's another thing.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. EC

      I saw people in the line with me, uh, you know, that did not speak a lick of English.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. EC

      But they were from a country that had a quota.

    7. JR

      Oh.

    8. EC

      And they're great, they're fine.

    9. JR

      Like Holland or some shit, yeah.

    10. EC

      They're from a country that has a quota, so they're great.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. EC

      But you're not- you're not, you're not-

    13. JR

      It's hard for Canadians, man. I have friends from Canada that have come over here to try to become citizens.

    14. EC

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      It's a fucking grind.

    16. EC

      Yeah. A- a- and- and- and don't get me wrong, I love this country. A- a bit, I'm new here and I like what I see. I don't like where it's going in some places.

Episode duration: 1:55:13

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