EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,030 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Welcome back, Ed. Good…
- JRJoe Rogan
Welcome back, Ed. Good to see you again, man.
- ECEd Calderon
Thank you for having me back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I'm, I'm happy you're back, but I'm not happy that there was motivation to bring you back based on the violence. You know, the violence that is going on between, uh, the cartels and it was the Mormons, and then, it was, we were just talking about this, uh, other person that got shot because they ran... What, would you explain that again? They were ran a cartel roadblock?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. Basically, in Tamaulipas, a lot of the cartel groups actually make, uh, they, they build their roadblocks in the, on the, s- state and, and local roads. And according to what I've heard from some of the people that I know there, uh, this family, uh, ran one of those roadblocks. They didn't know if it was cops or not, and they apparently decided to run the roadblock and they, the, the cartel guys shot them.
- JRJoe Rogan
What should someone do if they encounter a cartel roadblock?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, slow down. Um, I mean, if, if, uh, if anything, I would probably avoid traveling through those areas. That's the number one-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... avoidance. Um, usually, you know, and I've actually gone through some of those myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. And it's, uh, it's all about... They're all, they're all, they're, they're looking out for the, for rivals moving through their territory. They're looking for government personnel maybe spying on them. And, uh, usually it en- usually they'll just shake you down for some money and they'll, uh, let you go on your way unless you have a 4x4 truck they can use for their, you know, their own purposes, which is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, they might take your truck?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. Uh, they're, uh, specifically in Tamaulipas, uh, uh, 4x4 trucks are a commodity for them. They use them for their ongoing, you know, turf war.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right, especially someone else's. Th- they don't mind getting shot up.
- ECEd Calderon
(laughs) Yeah. I mean, uh, m- most of the trucks that you see w- that are arm- up armored or they have the rifles on top are usually stolen vehicles. Um, all of them are stolen vehicles and a lot of them are, you know, Americans crossing into Mexico. Some of them are Amer- Americans crossing into Mexico and just getting their truck stolen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus Chr- is that... That's a real common thing?
- ECEd Calderon
It's- it's- it's- it's starting to be pretty common. Um, uh, I recently saw a case of an- of an apparent abduction, uh, in, uh, in- in Tamaulipas. Um, you see the video and- and- and the cartel guys come out of the car, they grab the- the- the- the owner of a- of a- of a pickup truck. They get him out of the car, they take his cell phone, leave it on the sidewalk because they're- they're aware of all the SOS technology and they take him inside a- in- inside of another car and they take the truck. And you thought... You know, you would think, you know, it's- it's because he did something or he's- he's- he's involved in something. They let him go a few blocks later and just took the truck. It was all about the truck.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. It's resources. You know, they're just, uh, acquiring resources for their- for their war basically.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nice of them to let him go.
- ECEd Calderon
Nice of them to let him go.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
You know? (laughs) It's not always the ca- it's not always the case, but it's pretty... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think most people in America are just now waking up to the chaos that's going on down there. I think that, uh, the Mormon assassination was a real wake-up call, but I think, uh, people are paying much more attention now. I mean, we've- we talked about this. When was the last time you were on? It was like five months?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Something like that.
- ECEd Calderon
A- a lot of the stuff we talked about those five months ago, uh, kind of that's how things progressed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
We actually did mention the Mormon communities-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... down there, which was kind of eerie.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Mm-hmm. …
- ECEd Calderon
to guide us towards a place where things could stabilize down there. And a lot of it is not going to be able to be done in Mexico. It's going to have to be done up here, right? Um, basically, you know, one, you, you have to take care, the US has to take care of the drug market up here, the illegal drug market. And certain things that have happened like legalization of marijuana, marijuana in some of the, some places up here have changed the dynamics of what happens down there. Some for the better, some for the, some bad, some bad things have happened. Um, talking to, uh, my friend Jon Norris, who was on here as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
And just comparing notes, seeing how a lot of the drug, uh, grows that are up here, the pot, illegal pot grows that are up here are exactly like the ones that I found in Baja six, seven years ago. And how some of that drug money made from those fields are, is staying in, in the US, it's not being sent back. So that means you have an active growing cartel presence in the US that is US based. So I think the, the, one of the, the problems that people have is perception is that that's a Mexican problem. It's a, it's a US/Mexico problem. You know, you have a border there, but the problem has two root causes, right? Social, economic inequality and destabilization and corrupt government down there, and a thriving illegal drug market up here. And, you know, those two have to be solved to se- I mean, to, in a, in a, in a combined way.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many members, uh, when you combine all the cartels-
- ECEd Calderon
(coughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... how many members are we talking about?
- ECEd Calderon
That's, I mean, it's pretty hard to put a number on how m-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just rough.
- ECEd Calderon
I, I will say this.
- JRJoe Rogan
More than a million?
- ECEd Calderon
I will say this, they defeated the Mexican army in Sinaloa.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that was bananas.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When they captured El Chapo's son-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then the army gave it back.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're like, "Yeah, you can have him back."
- ECEd Calderon
Well, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
"Sorry."
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, the, that, that whole situation, uh, and it was like, I, I remember, uh, that was happening and I was getting asked questions about it and it was live, it was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... all of a sudden, all of a sudden just popped off, you know. Um, basically a, supposedly, the official story from the Mexican government is that they send a special police unit to capture him, right? Which is completely false, I think, because you don't send 35 agents to capture one of the, the heads of one of the biggest Sinaloa cartel cells, right? So it's pretty much, uh, by chance they spotted this party, people were around there, they went there, all of a sudden El Chapo's son is there.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you think they just stumbled into him?
- ECEd Calderon
There's a... I, I posted a video on my, on my feed of the capture of, uh, of this, of, of, uh, El Chapo's son and you can see it. And you can see the surprise and really how the agents are kind of uncomfortable or are fearful of what they just stumbled on. Um, imagine US agents stumble in on one of the, um, America's most wanted individuals up here. They're gonna put him on the ground, they're gonna handcuff him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
In the video, you can see that they point their rifles at him and he calmly takes out his gun and hands it to somebody inside of the, inside of the house he was in and walks out and kind of tries to negotiate with the people outside, the federal agents that are trying to arrest him.And you can see that the agents are like, "Oh, what did we stumble in on?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- ECEd Calderon
Right? So, that happened. They grabbed him, they reported back to Mexico, they captured him. They started to announce the capture and his brother, um, uh, his half-brother, Archibaldo, basically called in all of the reinforcements from all surrounding towns and regions in Sinaloa and it was flooded with a bunch of armed cartel guys. All of Sinaloa was.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wasn't there a video of the government people and the cartel people talking? Oh-
- 30:00 – 45:00
Fuck. …
- ECEd Calderon
you know, group or operation was. But at the same time you started seeing, you know, the DEA and- and the- and the US government, uh, uh, condecorating and- and putting all these awards on a guy like Luna, who was the guy that got arrested recently, who was head of s- security down in Mexico. And now all of a sudden he's, no, no, he's not. You know, he was recognized by the US government as being a player for, uh, the good guys and now he's arrested. So you start seeing all these, you know, different interests, different political, uh, political kind of m- m- movements around the drug war and what that turned into.And, uh, you know, you don't know what, you don't know what to think, right? Each an- each also ... Each US administration has changed the way they do things in ... when it comes to the drug war and also benefits certain groups down there. So, you know, who knows, realistically.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, you know, I, I went to Chichen Itza, I think, in 2000-ish, 2002, maybe, 2003, somewhere ar- around the, that time. And there was no concern.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a different time, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's ... But that's 16-
- ECEd Calderon
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
17 years ago.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so recent in terms of, like, human history.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That a region changes so radically, so quickly.
- ECEd Calderon
Well, it's, it's, it's ... There's a lot of things happening, you know. Um, there's a lot of interest ... (bottle clinks) China has a lot of interest in Mexico and, um, you go back and you see something like the- (coughs) I'm sorry. Um, you see things like the, uh, the whole, um, how some, uh, armed groups started popping up, uh, uh, in Mexico in the Michoacán area fighting back against the cartels. The, uh, the whole ... There was, like, a s- a series, uh, like a documentary on them. The, uh, the, uh, Autodefensas, they were, they were called, basically, like vigilante groups. And then, you ... Later on, you realize that they were all fighting for basically protecting or inc- ... uh, or working around security for illegal Chinese ore miner- mining in the area.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. They w- ... It's all ... It was all about, uh, Chinese ore mining, uh, uh, iron ore mining, illegal Chinese ore mine- mining in the area.
- JRJoe Rogan
So the Chinese ore miners, they just made a deal.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. And then, you know, "Uh, we can get in on it, so let's arm all these guys and we're, we're, we're protecting our communities," but they were-
- JRJoe Rogan
Holy shit.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, there was a lot of that going on. Not all of them, but a lot of ... There was a lot of shady stuff going on in the region, uh, when it comes to that. Now you see things like the stuff that's going on in Sonora, and there's a lot of lithium there. That's pretty valuable thing, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Sonora is a place that a lot of hunters go.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sonora has these big hunting ranches and it's like ... It's famous for giant mule deer.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, it's a ... Uh, I've been up, out there hunting myself and it's a, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful part, part of Mexico.
- JRJoe Rogan
But that seems like a sketchy spot to be venturing into.
- ECEd Calderon
But it's for ... It's perfect because it's, uh ... It's perfect for them because it's rural so there's nobody around.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Uh ...
- JRJoe Rogan
But if you were, like, a guy from Texas wanting to drive your truck down there to go hunting.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
And it's the first…
- JRJoe Rogan
- ECEd Calderon
And it's the first year of the administration of this new president, right, who has been trying to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hugs.
- ECEd Calderon
Hugs, uh, hugs and not, not bullets. (Spanish) . You know, this instead of that. Uh, his- it's been his first year. And, you know, "Hey, give him a chance. He's, he's, he's, he's doing whatever he needs to do."
- JRJoe Rogan
It's only the most violent year in history.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cut the guy a break.
- ECEd Calderon
Exactly. That's what they say. But then I go down there and I have a lot of, a lot of my friends that are still down there, people that have trained, uh, still down there, and I hear from them directly. Like, I have some, uh, young kids that are in the j- gendarmeria, which is like a federal police force that, uh, patrols all of Mexico. And some of the federal, federal police guys, they tell me like, "Ed, we're ... " Th- they, they said, "Or you sign the new contract to be guardia nacional and lower your pay, and all of your, all of the stuff that, all of your benefits will be gone, or you just stay on here in limbo and just stay at the base." And a lot of them are staying at the base, so it's nothing's, nothing's, nothing's, nothing's being done, basically.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, and I imagine that if it seems overwhelming and it seems helpless and it seems like the cartels are just taking over and they're making a shitload of money, and you're not making any money, I mean, that, that is the real crazy thing about it, right? They're ... If the, the government is asking people in this sort of already compromised situation and environment, asking them to work for a small amount of money to go after people that are making a tremendous amount of money-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and you're gonna be at war with these people, and these people, they're basically your neighbors.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. And also, you go there with a federal uniform, as part of the federal government, you go into a community where you- the federal government doesn't do anything for them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
The church is made by the cartels.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cartel made the road.
- ECEd Calderon
Christmas was brought, brought to you by the cartels, you know. Um, th- they, they are the good guys, so these guys come in here like, "Who are these guys? Like, what are they doing here?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales)
- ECEd Calderon
"We're not gonna ..." So that's, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
God.
- ECEd Calderon
... it's, it's, it's, it's, it is, it's a, it's a mess. It's a mess.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. But w- could boots on the ground actually fix anything?
- ECEd Calderon
(sighs) I mean, uh, I'm not a, and I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a military expert, uh, but, uh, there has to be some sort of outside force that is completely uncompromised by cartel, uh, money and influence, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
How long before they compromise those people?
- ECEd Calderon
Well, uh, when you put the Marines on the border, uh, a few of them got picked up on smuggling people, uh, from the border, so, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- ECEd Calderon
You know, who knows? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Just ...
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, it's- it's, uh, and- it's also a- it's a different war field, because a lot of, you know, a lot of our war fighters and law enforcement are- have some sort of blood ties to Mexico.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. Of course.
- ECEd Calderon
And-
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
But, you know, it,…
- JRJoe Rogan
20 years ago, he was peeing on little kids.
- ECEd Calderon
But, you know, it, and now it gives people like a, a, it, it's interesting. You see-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... you see fictionalized forms of stuff that happened down there. The Narcos show as well is another thing, you know, see fictionalized things of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
... how some of these powerful cartel groups kind of originated themselves in fiction. And now that is in the public, uh, kind of domain as far as collective knowledge. So people start asking questions and some of these things, and apparently people in power also ask questions as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus Christ.
- ECEd Calderon
(coughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, uh, it's so strange how popular it's become, you know, and, uh, it's such a, uh, a popular focal point of fiction as well.
- ECEd Calderon
And, uh, and, and fashion, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
El Chapo's picture with, uh, Sean Penn.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
The shirt was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- ECEd Calderon
... fire.
- JRJoe Rogan
Beautiful.
- ECEd Calderon
Everybody wanted that shirt.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know that, uh, Conor McGregor like wore something to mimic it when, on purpose when he was-
- ECEd Calderon
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
... pro- in the press conference for Rafael dos Anjos. Did you know that?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard something about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
He even stood, he stood in the same stance. Like look at him, look at him.
- ECEd Calderon
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, he's doing it on purpose.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, that's, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like a subtle-
- ECEd Calderon
... that's El Chapo.
- JRJoe Rogan
... nod to El Chapo.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. I mean, he's a, he, he, El Chapo has achieved legendary status. Now-
- 1:15:00 – 1:15:36
I, yes, that's another…
- JRJoe Rogan
English.
- ECEd Calderon
I, yes, that's another thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
I saw people in the line with me, uh, you know, that did not speak a lick of English.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
But they were from a country that had a quota.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- ECEd Calderon
And they're great, they're fine.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like Holland or some shit, yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
They're from a country that has a quota, so they're great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
But you're not- you're not, you're not-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hard for Canadians, man. I have friends from Canada that have come over here to try to become citizens.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a fucking grind.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. A- a- and- and- and don't get me wrong, I love this country. A- a bit, I'm new here and I like what I see. I don't like where it's going in some places.
Episode duration: 1:55:13
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