Joe Rogan Experience #1417 - Kevin Ross

1. 0:00 – 2:43

   Sandbag shin conditioning: building bone strength vs deadening nerves

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... two, one. (smacks lips) Kevin Ross, bringer of gifts.

   2. KRKevin Ross0:05

      (laughs) What's good, man? How you doing?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Hey, good to see you, brother. thanks for-

   4. KRKevin Ross0:07

      Good to see you too.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      ... very much for that bag.

   6. KRKevin Ross0:09

      Oh, you're very welcome.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      It's very cool. People, uh, I'll let you know, uh, Kevin brought a giant, heavy bag filled with sand that has to weigh north of 200 pounds, right?

   8. KRKevin Ross0:18

      Oh, yeah. I, I think it's about 250.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      (laughs)

   10. KRKevin Ross0:21

       Yeah. It was r- a lot of fun getting that in my car by myself.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Is that your preferred method for conditioning your shins?

   12. KRKevin Ross0:28

       For sure. For sure. You know, the, the thing with con- shin conditioning, a lot of people do, you know, they smack themselves in the shin with bottles and kinda stupid things like that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Yeah.

   14. KRKevin Ross0:37

       But you're, you're not really creating what you need to, which is, uh, overall, um, conditioning, um, overall strengthening of the ner- um, the bone. Um, all you're d- really doing is deadening little spots in your nerves, but that's the worst thing you can do without strengthening your bones. So you're deadening the nerves, but not strengthening the bone overall, and if-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Hmm.

   16. KRKevin Ross0:59

       ... you're not doing that, you're gonna think your bone's a lot stronger than it is, but it can't handle the impact. So with, with a sandbag, you're, you're, you're covering much more, uh, surface area and, you know, applying it in a realistic situation where you're th- you're able to throw kicks repeatedly at this thing. And what you, what you really wanna do is do it to a degree that it's causing a certain amount of pain, but you're able to do this daily, um, with, with repetition, because that's how you continually develop. Just like getting stronger at anything, you know, it ca- it doesn't happen overnight. You gotta just do this every day, just at the end of your session, knock out a few kicks, and then again tomorrow, and again the next day, and you slowly and steadily are then able to go harder and harder and, and, and, and, um, develop this strength and conditioning in your shins.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       So the idea is that you're making, like, these little, tiny micro-fractures, right?

   18. KRKevin Ross1:51

       Yeah, for sure. And, um, yeah, li- like I said, you wanna be able to cover a good s- surface area so you're hitting it all a- kind of at once, as, as opposed to, like, little spots-

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       Mm-hmm.

   20. KRKevin Ross2:03

       ... which is what happens when you just whack it with a bat-

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       Right.

   22. KRKevin Ross2:05

       ... or something like that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:06

       Uh, my experience with whacking it with a bat is everybody kinda quits.

   24. KRKevin Ross2:09

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       You're like, "Hey, I'm gonna condition my shins," and then they just go, "F- what the fuck am I doing?" And they stop-

   26. KRKevin Ross2:14

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       ... doing it.

   28. KRKevin Ross2:14

       Well, the thing too with, with when you're able to kick like that is you can kinda slowly build up. You know, you start a little bit, lightly, and, and develop a little bit stronger, and you kinda create a little, little bit of a crease, and, you know, uh, as you get going, you, you, your brain can kinda wrap itself around it a little bit better, and then you start going harder and harder. And by the end of, you know, your five, 10-minute session, y- you're putting some serious weight into that, and you're not, you're not, um, noticing it as much.

2. 2:43 – 5:38

   Preventing catastrophic leg breaks: checking kicks and impact angles

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:43

      Yeah, we were talking about your, your, um, knee, that you had a, a fracture in your knee that you didn't realize you had.

   2. KRKevin Ross2:48

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:49

      And that's, that's w- it's weird. Like, the thing that disturbs me maybe the most in kickboxing, and so I've only seen it a few times, is when someone checks a kick and their, their leg snaps in half.

   4. KRKevin Ross2:58

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      Like Tyron Spong, when he fought-

   6. KRKevin Ross3:00

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:00

      ... Gokhan Saki or Anderson Silva when he fought Chris Weidman, same thing.

   8. KRKevin Ross3:03

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:03

      That snap of when-

   10. KRKevin Ross3:05

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       ... the, the, the shin gives out.

   12. KRKevin Ross3:07

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       Like, that, uh, can you prevent that from doing this?

   14. KRKevin Ross3:11

       Obviously, it's one of those just freak things that happens. Y- uh, you know, clearly, with those guys, uh, you can have the most conditioned shins in the world, but you catch them the wrong way, at the-

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       Mm-hmm.

   16. KRKevin Ross3:21

       ... wrong time, it can happen. And it's rare, but it does happen, and it doesn't really matter how long you've been doing this, how strong your shins are. Sometimes things just break.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       I always wonder how many guys have little breaks and they don't know about it too.

   18. KRKevin Ross3:37

       Probably a lot.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       Yeah.

   20. KRKevin Ross3:38

       Probably a lot, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       Yeah. They said that's what happened with Anderson.

   22. KRKevin Ross3:40

       Uh-huh.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       That Anderson threw a kick, and he broke it before that.

   24. KRKevin Ross3:44

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:44

       Like, he felt something was wrong, and then when he threw that second kick and it snapped in half-

   26. KRKevin Ross3:49

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       ... that's, that's why it did that.

   28. KRKevin Ross3:50

       Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       Well, Weidman was checking it perfect. He was checking it right at the top of his knee.

   30. KRKevin Ross3:56

       Yeah, and you know, that's a big thing with, um, you know, fighting. A lot of, a lot of people tend to just blindly just pick their shin up, you know, as opposed to paying attention to where it is on your shin that it's hitting. Just, just like when you're kicking, you need to pay attention to what piece of your leg you're hitting with, which piece of your shin you're checking with, and the higher up on your shin it is, the, the harder it's going to be. And when you're southpaw versus orthodox and throwing that inside leg kick, you're, you're, you're coming upwards at an angle, which is tends to be, like, low on your foot or your, your, your ankle, and then you're checking with high up by your knee, so you have the smallest part of your shin connecting with the, the hardest part of somebody else's. And with that, that's just the, the one that tends to do that.
3. 5:38 – 9:04

   Why Thailand produces killers: culture, economics, and training philosophies

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      It's such a brutally effective way to fight, and it's so interesting that Thailand perfected that.

   2. KRKevin Ross5:44

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:44

      It, I've, I've always been fascinated by that. Like, you know, when you-

   4. KRKevin Ross5:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:47

      ... think about the entire world, it's an enormous world, and people have been fighting in this enormous world from the beginning of time.

   6. KRKevin Ross5:55

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:55

      And this one island-They said, "Hey, I got an idea." (laughs)

   8. KRKevin Ross6:00

      (laughs) Well, it's, it's a cultural thing over there.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:02

      Mm-hmm.

   10. KRKevin Ross6:02

       You know, it's part of their upbringing. It's like baseball over here-

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:06

       Mm-hmm.

   12. KRKevin Ross6:06

       ... or soccer in other parts of the world, where everybody kinda does it to one extent or the other. And, you know, clearly, if you're doing this from a, a t- time you're a child, um, particularly when it's a, a job, like it is for them over there, and it's, uh, it's more than just for fun. It's not-

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:22

       Right.

   14. KRKevin Ross6:22

       ... for fun. It's, it's like, "This is how I survive." It's this or working in the fields.

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:27

       Yeah.

   16. KRKevin Ross6:27

       You know? And, and that completely changes their mentality about it, and that's why when you go there, it's like, obviously the skill for sure, but, but the mentality and their reasons for doing this, like, it's so different. It's so different.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:41

       Yeah, and they start so young. And there's, they're, they're basically sent to these camps.

   18. KRKevin Ross6:46

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       And they start fighting, like, you know, be- before they're like 10 years old.

   20. KRKevin Ross6:51

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       Uh, oftentimes they start fighting.

   22. KRKevin Ross6:52

       Yeah. A lot of these kids, you know, their, their families send them to these, these camps, and that's where they're raised. You know, they're raised in a gym to be fighters and to work for the gyms. I mean, that, that's really what they're doing, is they're working, you know? They're, they're, they're getting money to send back to their families, and they're not doing this for fun. They're not doing this as a hobby.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       Yeah. I've always been fascinated by the way the Thais spar as well, because I think it's really interesting that given that they do fight so often, and their livelihood depends on it, and that it is not a game-

   24. KRKevin Ross7:25

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       ... they've really figured out a bunch of things. And one of the things they've figured out is, hit the pads hard, hit the bag hard, spar light.

   26. KRKevin Ross7:34

       Yeah, yeah. There's, um, there's give and take to everything that we do, and we're trying to maximize, um, our learning and minimize the, the damage or the, the, the risk of injury that we're taking. And we have the opposite approach here in America, just beat the shit out of each other and, you know, that's good. That's how you're gonna get better. But you don't really develop when you're going hard like that. You're learning how to be tough, and you're learning how to take damage, and you're, you know, learning how to be in the fire like that, which is important, but you're not really developing. You know, when you're, when you're playing, when you're practicing, when you're not thinking about getting injured or knocked out, you're able to learn n- imply new things and new techniques and, and, and, and practice things that you normally wouldn't. It's like when, when you're worried about getting hurt, you're only gonna focus on the things that you're really good at, you know? You're not gonna try these different approaches, and that's what really limits a lot of our development, you know? A lot of ... You see a lot of fighters, their, their ability kind of levels off, uh, to a certain degree, and they don't, they don't continually develop as their careers go on, and they also don't last very long either, 'cause the amount of damage their, their bodies and their brains are, um, taking, you know? Each one of us only has a finite number of shots to the head we can take and, and shots to the body we can take. And do you want to use those in the gym or do you wanna use those in the ring? Um, you know, and it's, I think it's really about finding a good balance

4. 9:04 – 11:20

   Hard sparring vs smart development: finding the right training balance

   1. KRKevin Ross9:04

      between that. You know, in the beginning all I did was just go crazy and spar super hard six days a week, leading all the way up to the fight. And, and-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:12

      Six days a week you were sparring hard, really?

   3. KRKevin Ross9:14

      Yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:15

      Wow.

   5. KRKevin Ross9:15

      And with gu- I mean, the smallest guy I had to work with coming up was probably 20 pounds bigger than me and, you know, in a lot of ways this helped me develop and, and gain a lot of strength and confidence and, and ability to take that kind of punishment, but it also did a lot of detrimental things, a lot of stupid injuries, a lot of damage. And, you know, over the years, I've come to develop and get more onto the, the Thai approach of things and, and practice and playing and, and, you know, finding when the time to go hard is and when the time to, to learn and develop is, and what's counterproductive and what isn't.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      How do you make that distinction? Like, how do you know when's the time to go hard?

   7. KRKevin Ross9:54

      (laughs) You don't. You don't really. I mean, everything with- that we do is a process of trial and error, you know? And I think once you kind of understand that you can think clearly and, and apply the things you need to in the midst of that firefight, which, which, you know, is, is really what shuts a lot of people down in the beginning. They, they, they can't process the information that's happening because it's so intense and, and that is why it's important to kind of have that and, and have that fight-like situat- scenario in, in the gym, but once you've done that and you've had the experience and all of that, I think it's, it's so much, so much more beneficial to start going towards the other direction, especially if you wanna stay in this sport for a, a, a, a good amount of time and, and, and, and not take unnecessary damage for really no, no purpose whatsoever. Um, it should... To me, it should be the exception and not the rule, you know? Like, have those hard training sessions in once in a while, especially if you can get working with people that you're not used to 'cause, 'cause, you know, obviously when you fight it's you don't know what they're really doing in there and, um, it's like working with a stranger. And in the gym we, we know each other so well that we tend to just work on those things and not practice. Um, but, but that's how we develop, um, and if we're not doing that, we're, we're really limiting ourselves.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:15

      It's gotta be difficult to find the right balance in terms of like what gym you're training at.

   9. KRKevin Ross11:20

      Mm-hmm.

5. 11:20 – 15:14

   Training bases and lifestyle: San Diego move, gyms, and discipline culture

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:20

      Like w- where are you training at these days?

   2. KRKevin Ross11:22

      I'm down in San Diego now. I moved down there, uh, two years ago at the, uh, The Boxing Club.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      Oh, this is that, uh, Artem-

   4. KRKevin Ross11:29

      Yeah, yeah, Shorokhin. Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:30

      ... L- Levin's place? Yeah.

   6. KRKevin Ross11:31

      Uh, yeah, and Levin was, is there too. Um, Artem, um, Shorokhin, the other, small Artem, he, uh, he, he... We met almost 15 years ago. He was actually the janitor at this gym. Uh, ju- had just moved from Russia and now he, he owns three of them and, um, is this, uh, amazing gym owner and, and businessperson, which is, it is just an unbelievably fascinating story that he has, and a inspirational thing, and, um... But yeah, that's where I'm at n- now. And I kind of bounce back between, um, San Diego and, and out here, um, Gina lives out here, so I kind of go back and forth.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:07

      I- now that place is, it's called The Boxing Club, right?

   8. KRKevin Ross12:10

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:10

      But it's Muay Thai?

   10. KRKevin Ross12:11

       Yeah, yeah. There's another gym out here called Boxing Works, which i- which is the one I train at in, uh, Torrance, and same thing, it's, it's a Muay Thai gym. And, and both these gyms are, are Muay Thai and kickboxing related, yet they're-... boxing, um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       Why do they call it Boxing Works? Is it just to get people to join?

   12. KRKevin Ross12:26

       I- I- I don't really know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:27

       (laughs)

   14. KRKevin Ross12:27

       You know, I don't really know ho- why that happened or how that happened. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's kind of ironic that both those places, uh, are seemingly boxing gyms, and they're not at all.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       What made you make the move down there?

   16. KRKevin Ross12:38

       A lot of things. I, I'd always planned on ending up in San Diego. I mean, that's the one place.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       I love it down there.

   18. KRKevin Ross12:44

       And, yeah, and I've lived all over this country since, um, you know, I've moved all over the place since I was a little kid. And San Diego was just where I always planned I'd be one day. Um, I didn't think I'd move down there until I was done fighting, but through the process of a lot of things and, you know, transitions in my life, um, it just kind of was the right time to go.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       It's the perfect balance 'cause it's like a city.

   20. KRKevin Ross13:07

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       But it's not a big city.

   22. KRKevin Ross13:09

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       And it's got a lot of beauty.

   24. KRKevin Ross13:11

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       Like, there's beautiful hills and the, the ocean is beautiful. Like, but it's not that crowded.

   26. KRKevin Ross13:17

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:17

       It's like it's all right. I shouldn't even, even be talking about it. (laughs)

   28. KRKevin Ross13:20

       (laughs) Yeah, and when, what-

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:21

       I don't want people to move there.

   30. KRKevin Ross13:22

       Once you go there, it's, it's tough to want to be anywhere else.
6. 15:14 – 20:25

   Wildfires in California and Australia: scale, human causes, and community impact

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      He took me up in one, and we flew over Van Nuys, and over Ma- it was crazy flying over Malibu 'cause we did it right after the fires.

   2. KRKevin Ross15:20

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      So you got to see all the houses that were burnt to the ground.

   4. KRKevin Ross15:23

      Mm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      Nuts, man. And like Point Dume, so these just huge estates that are probably worth $25 million-

   6. KRKevin Ross15:29

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      ... is burnt to the fucking ground. It's like, and so many of them, man.

   8. KRKevin Ross15:33

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:33

      Malibu lost like 600 structures.

   10. KRKevin Ross15:37

       That's wild, man. It's, it's hard to wrap your brain around the, the damage that was done. And then I saw this scale which showed, you know, what the California fires are and what the Australian fires are.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       Oh, my God.

   12. KRKevin Ross15:48

       And that's just...

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       My friend Tom-

   14. KRKevin Ross15:51

       It's, it's unreal.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       ... is there right now, and he said they had to divert his plane. He was supposed to fly into Melbourne, and they diverted it to Sydney because they couldn't fly through the smoke.

   16. KRKevin Ross16:00

       Man.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       70% of the country is covered in smoke.

   18. KRKevin Ross16:02

       (imitates fire blazing)

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       And a good percentage of those fires were started by people.

   20. KRKevin Ross16:06

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       Just fucking around, like throwing cigarettes into the bush.

   22. KRKevin Ross16:09

       Crazy.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       Yeah.

   24. KRKevin Ross16:11

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       They said half a billion animals are dead.

   26. KRKevin Ross16:14

       Geez.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Yeah.

   28. KRKevin Ross16:16

       That's terrible.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       It's insane. And they said that the koala bear, like, so much of their habitat is destroyed, they're, they're in like grave danger.

   30. KRKevin Ross16:24

       Yeah.
7. 20:25 – 22:32

   Martial arts as mental hygiene: humility, stress release, and “static” removal

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:25

      Yeah. Well, I've... Uh, I mean, to make a, an analogy with martial arts, one of the reasons why I enjoy being around martial artists and why most of my friends, a good percentage of my friends are martial artists, I, I feel like training all the time and getting humbled-

   2. KRKevin Ross20:42

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:42

      ... is p- par- particularly in jujitsu because you can get tapped out a lot and you, you know, you just train and you get tapped out and you keep going.

   4. KRKevin Ross20:50

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:50

      It's not like getting knocked out.

   6. KRKevin Ross20:52

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:52

      It's not like... You know, you can only get cracked in the head so many times in sparring. But you, you develop this kind of humility that is, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's everybody kinda understands it and there's this feeling that you get where you understand when, when someone's trying to kill you all the time-

   8. KRKevin Ross21:12

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:12

      ... like, on a regular basis, some dude's trying to choke the fucking breath outta you-

   10. KRKevin Ross21:16

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:16

       ... and someone's got their arm wrapped around your neck, like, the rest of the world seems easier.

   12. KRKevin Ross21:22

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:22

       You know?

   14. KRKevin Ross21:22

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:22

       And I, I almost feel like human beings are engineered through, through evolution. We've, we've sort of been designed through natural selection to learn how to survive difficult things.

   16. KRKevin Ross21:35

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:35

       And when the difficult things don't exist, we make things that aren't difficult, difficult.

   18. KRKevin Ross21:40

       Yeah, very much so. Very much so. You know, for me, I feel that training in martial arts and fighting and all of these things, it, it clears the static and the noise out of your life and it, it allows you to focus on the things that are important and not be so distracted by fluff and nothingness.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:00

       Yeah.

   20. KRKevin Ross22:00

       You know? And even a day or two of not training, I, like, I feel that stuff seeping back in.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:06

       Yeah.

   22. KRKevin Ross22:06

       You know? And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's substantial, you know? And, like, I don't know how everyone's not running around shooting each other-

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:12

       (laughs)

   24. KRKevin Ross22:12

       ... because just a few days of not doing this, I'm like, "I wanna kill somebody," beco- because I allow just the stresses of nothing to get it there, you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       To make this sound more consistent, just push that a little bit further just 'cause it's... You're doing-

   26. KRKevin Ross22:26

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:26

       ... one of those cigarette things. Like, "Hello. S- I don't have a voice."

   28. KRKevin Ross22:30

       All right. How about that?

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       That's perfect.

   30. KRKevin Ross22:31

       All right.

8. 22:32 – 28:31

   From chaos to purpose: Kevin’s early life, trauma, and alcoholism

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:32

      Um, how much longer do you think you're gonna compete?

   2. KRKevin Ross22:35

      I have no idea, man.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:36

      How old are you now?

   4. KRKevin Ross22:37

      I'll be 40 this year.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:38

      Oh, shit.

   6. KRKevin Ross22:39

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:39

      That's the magic number.

   8. KRKevin Ross22:40

      You know, the... Since the day I started, you know, I didn't start till I was 23.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:44

      Yeah.

   10. KRKevin Ross22:45

       And, uh-

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:45

       So, well, tell your story because it's a-

   12. KRKevin Ross22:47

       (laughs) Okay.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       ... it's an, it's a fascinating story 'cause I love a guy whose life is fucked up and then he figures something out-

   14. KRKevin Ross22:54

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:54

       ... and then becomes a role model. And in-

   16. KRKevin Ross22:56

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:56

       ... a lot of ways, that's what you've done.

   18. KRKevin Ross22:59

       Yeah, it's a long story and I, um, I'm actually in the process of writing my autobio- autobiography right now, um, which I've been working on pretty consistently for the last five years. Something that... You know, I really was doing it for myself in a lot of ways, to have an understanding of the things that I've been through and the things that I've learned and processed and acquired over these years, which is, you know, in a lot of ways, it's been extremely rewarding doing all of this. But it's also been in... very difficult, very painful and emotional going back through all of these things that happened to me in my childhood and my upbringing, and things that I'm, even to this day, I'm still trying to process and understand a lot of. And, um... (sighs) where were we going with all this? (laughs) With my story? (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:55

       Oh, well, your story of not starting till you were 23-

   20. KRKevin Ross23:57

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:58

       ... and before that, too much partying-

   22. KRKevin Ross24:00

       (clicks tongue) Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan24:00

       ... yeah.

   24. KRKevin Ross24:01

       So, (sighs) to summarize a lot of this, you know, I was, I was... I, I grew up in a lot of different places and moved around a lot. You know, my parents split up very early. Um, me and my mother and three brother- four brothers, sisters, um, you know, we basically lived in somebody's basement for a wh- in the beginning. And, uh, we're living on welfare and bouncing around from place to place, and so much of that shut me down emotionally. And, and, you know, when I was a kid, from what I'm told, I, I mean, I've, I have really not much recollection of my childhood 'cause I've, I blocked so much of this out. And that's why it's been really difficult for me to, to write this book because I don't really have many memories. I have almost no memories of...... that time in my life where I felt like a child, that carefreeness-

   25. JRJoe Rogan24:50

       Mm.

   26. KRKevin Ross24:51

       ... o- of childhood. And I've had to, you know, talk to siblings and friends from back then, and, and look through photo albums, and slowly things start coming together, and, you know, that, that's why a lot of this has been, uh, really therapeutic. But, um, I always loved fighting. I always loved boxing and was very intrigued by it. And martial arts, you know, Bruce Lee was always a hero of mine, and, uh, but I hated violence, coming up. I hated it, but I was intrigued by it. So one of... a really good friend of mine, uh, we lived in Colorado for about a year or two, he would get into fights on a weekly basis in school, and I was fascinated by it. And I'm like, "Wow," that, like, "You're so brave and so strong."

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       (laughs)

   28. KRKevin Ross25:31

       And I felt like such, like, a weak... I was very... I allowed, like, w- weakness to, to, to, um, overtake me throughout the, the, the events of my life. And I was very shy, I didn't talk. Um, you know, I wa- I was always athletic and that kind of thing. But, but as far as confrontation and that, I'd, like, it just shut me down. And, and I didn't like it. It upset me a lot, you know, when s- people would be angry with me, and, um, so it... I had this, this strange dynamic where I was drawn to fighting and I was drawn to violence in one way, but if, I also hated it a lot and was scared by it. Um, but, but over the years, you know, I thought about... I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll try boxing one day, and that'd be really cool." You know, I was fascinated watching two people in the ring and, and all these people are watching, and they're there with each other regardless of their skill level. And, you know, just thinking about what, what it must be like in there to do that, you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       Mm-hmm.

   30. KRKevin Ross26:29

       And, um, it fascinated me. But it... but I... again, like I said, I, I love martial arts, so I wanted to be able to kick people. I wanted to be able to elbow people and knee people. And I never saw any fighting that was like that. You know, as I was coming up, I mean, you'd see taekwondo and karate, and a lot of point sparring, and that kind of thing, and forms, and, you know, even that I thought wa- was fascinating, but I wanted to fight like boxers did. And, um, I just never really saw anything like that. And one day, uh, '94, um, this is right when we moved to Vegas, I was watching ESPN at, like, 2:00 in the morning, and they used to have Thai fights on once in a while. And this fight came on, they're like, "Oh, this next fight is a Muay Thai fight between so-and-so," and when that started, I was immediately hooked. It hi- hit something in me that just, like, lit me on fire. I was like, "This is everything that I've been looking for. This is something so different," and it just spoke to my soul. Um, and, and it fascinated me, and I was like, "If I am ever gonna do this, that's gonna be it. It's gonna be Muay Thai." But, you know, for various reasons, um, it scared me, one. I didn't know how I'd be able to afford it. Um, I didn't know if my parents would even let me, and, you know, coming up the way I did, I was partying and drinking all the time. Um, even at that... I mean, I started drinking when I was, like, 12 years old.
9. 28:31 – 37:45

   The turning point: grief, a deal with his father, and starting Muay Thai at 23

   1. KRKevin Ross28:31

      Starting Muay Thai is what, what, um, what did it. I, um... as I said, I, I, I, I learned about it in '94. Over the years, every once in a while, I'd see a fight and I'd be like, "Oh, oh, I wanna do this so bad." And in '98, I actually started calling around gyms in Vegas. I was like, "Oh, maybe I'm gonna find a place to do this." And for me, it was one of those things where if I'm gonna do it, I wanna do it right, and I, I wanna do it to fight. And if I'm gonna do it to fight, I... what is the, the, the fastest way to get there? And I was like, "I need to take one-on-one lessons. I need to," um, I wanted to learn from a Thai, you know? And that was not to say, you know, like, Americans or anybody else can't, can't teach it, but I was like, "If, if you're gonna learn, you might as well learn it from the source." And the only place in Vegas that taught Muay Thai... one of the only places that even taught Muay Thai and the definitely only place that had Thai instructors was Master Toddy's gym. And I called the gym, um, you know, went down and talked to, uh, one of the instructors, and when he let me know how expensive it was gonna be, I was like, "There's just no way. There's no way I'm gonna be able to do this." And, and for me, I also knew that, "If I am gonna go after this, I'm gonna need to stop drinking, stop partying, completely alter my entire existence. I'm probably gonna lose all my friends. Um, everyone's gonna laugh at me." I, I didn't even know how serious I took myself, you know? I was like, "I laugh at me when I say this," you know? Like, it's... and if you knew me back then, you, you'd probably laugh too, like, "What do you, what do, what do you mean you're gonna fight?" Are you stupid?"

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      (laughs)

   3. KRKevin Ross30:04

      That's the stupidest thing I could ever think of. And, um, one of my best friends, Moe, he, um... for whatever reason, this one night we were up on the roof drinking and smoking weed, and he... we got to talking just about life, and he was actually born with, um, a heart defect. I can't remember the exact name of, uh, the disease that he had, but he was in and outta hospitals his whole life. He was ev- eventually gonna need to get a heart transplant, and, uh, he's like, "What do you wanna do with your life?" You know (laughs) , I looked at him like he was asking me what, uh, what do I wanna do when I got to the moon. I'm like, "What do you mean what do I wanna do with my life?" And then he's like... I was like, "Well, I always wanted to fight," and expecting him to laugh at me about this. He was like, "Well, why don't you?"... why don't you do it? And you know, I told him, "Well, I feel old already." I was 18 at the time. I f- already felt ancient then. You know, and I told him all my reasons and all my fears and doubts and, and all these things. He's like, "You know what, man..." He's like, "If anybody can do it, you can." He's like, "I think you should." And, uh, and that really, that always stuck with me. I was like, "Um, maybe I can." And, and in that moment, you know, I felt very motivated and, and wanted to do it. But by dr- you know, continuing to drink and all these other things, I just put it, suppressed it into the back of my mind. And then about a year later, um, he was in the hospital and, um, he needed to get a heart transplant and they basically, it was basically at that point was like, "You're gonna be here until you get one or y- you're gonna die." And, you know, I don't think any of us realized how serious it was or maybe we just didn't want to. (sniffs) He ended up passing away, um, while he was waiting for the transplant. And that just obviously devastated me to- to- to- to- to no end. And through that night, through my drunken coping, I was like, "I- I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna go after this dream." You know, my friend, he didn't even get a chance to fail at a dream and I'm too scared to even try b- for no reason, just out of fear that n- literally my only reason not to do this other than, you know, financial and all those other, um, surface things. But it really just boiled down to fear. (sniffs) And I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna d- I'm gonna go after this for him. You know, he didn't get a chance to live, I'm gonna, I'm gonna live for the both of us." But, you know, unfortunately, his, his death sent me even harder down that downward spiral of alcohol and depression. And three years later, I, um, I just had a realization one day. I was like, "If he was still alive, he'd beat the fuck out of me for wasting my life."

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:40

      (laughs)

   5. KRKevin Ross32:40

      I've been wasting my life for 21 years because I'm afraid. You know, I'm afraid and I'm, I'm too afraid to fail. I'm too afraid of all these stupid reasons that, that all of us give ourselves in order to make ourselves feel better about not going after things. But really, they're just that, they're just that, they're just excuses. They're just things that make you feel better. (sniffs) And they're bullshit. They're all bullshit. Almost every excuse we have is total bullshit 'cause there's people with those excuses and with all those reasons and more and they're able, and they do it. I'm like, "What is your excuse?" And it just, it just smacked me in the face one day and I, I, I was at that point when I could not ignore it any longer and this was going into, um, 2003. Uh, so I was like, made it my New Year's resolution to do this and, um, you know, one night I, I was sitting down with my father and we'd have these, we s- he'd get into these long talks with me 'cause I was always very quiet and he'd, he'd like take me off to the side in his way to kinda talk to me and get to know me better. And he was like, "So, why don't you tell me something you've never told anybody?" You know, I'm like, "What, what do you mean?" Like, "What can I ... like I killed somebody when I was little?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan33:55

      (laughs)

   7. KRKevin Ross33:55

      You know, like, I'm like, like racking my brain what I could possibly tell him and, uh, you know, that, that kept replaying in my mind that, "You wanna fight. You wanna fight. You wanna fight." (sniffs) And, um, very, like, quietly was like, "I, I wanna fight one day." And he's like, "What?" He's like, "I wanna fight." And he's like, "What do you mean you wanna fight?" And you know, I told him and he's like, "Well, why don't you?" And I told him all these reasons. He's like, "Well, I cannot help you with all of your fears and doubts and this, but look, (sniffs) I'll make a deal with you. If you quit drinking and dedicate yourself to this, I'll take care of, um, every, all the financial things in order f- to let you do this." I was like... He's like, "We got a deal?" I was like, "All right, yeah." And he's like, and he points to that, I was drinking a 40 at the time. He's like, "What about that drink in your hand?" And I was like, "Well, I was gonna start tomorrow so, you know-"

   8. JRJoe Rogan34:42

      (laughs)

   9. KRKevin Ross34:42

      "... I don't want to, you know, maybe I could finish this all right." But, you know, I, I understood even at that age, like, you can't put things off like that. It was like, "You're gonna do it."

   10. JRJoe Rogan34:51

       Yeah.

   11. KRKevin Ross34:51

       "If you're serious about it, you're gonna do it now." So I dumped out the rest of the 40 in the, the sink he had in there and two days later I got into the gym. And, uh-

   12. JRJoe Rogan35:01

       Was it hard to wean yourself off the alcohol though if you were physically dependent on it?

   13. KRKevin Ross35:05

       It was, it was both extremely difficult, yet I was so focused on this goal that none of those ... I, I, I had to overcome so much not just the physical dependence of the, on alcohol, but, but my lifestyle and, uh, and s- change so many things. But I'd been putting this off for so long that I knew there was, there was no time for me to, to waste. You know, I was so focused on this that, like, once I made that switch in my mind, like, "I'm gonna go after this and there's nothing that's gonna stop me." And I've wasted so many years already that everything I'm doing is, is gonna be playing catch-up. You know, the, there's no way for me to get to, like, I'd look at, you know, the, like, Senshine, guys like that, and be like, "I'm never gonna get there." So everything that I do has to be to get me closer to this goal and I can't allow, you know, my physical dependency or my doubts or any of these things slow me down because, uh, everything I'm doing, I have to play catch-up. You know? And, um, having that, that focus allowed me to overcome all of those, those physical and emotional and mental challenges. And, of course, that's not to say it was easy. It was e- extremely difficult. It was extremely difficult but it was ... you got two choices, you know. You can, you can allow these things to slow you down and hinder you and weaken you or you can say, "I'm gonna go forward anyway. Doesn't matter how afraid I am. It doesn't matter how hurt I am. Doesn't matter how tired I am. This is what I want and I'm gonna put everything that I have into this so that way w-When I'm done, when my, when my life is over, when I can't do this anymore, I can look back and have no regrets that I didn't allow these things to slow me down. I didn't allow the excuses that we all have hinder me and keep me from doing this, you know, because one day we're gonna wake up and realize we could have gone after these things, and we didn't because of X, Y, and Z. But really, those things aren't, aren't anything, you know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan37:29

       Do you stop and think about those moments when you first started? This... 'cause that's a profound life shift-

   15. KRKevin Ross37:37

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan37:37

       ... right? To go from being a guy who's kind of aimless and partying a lot but knowing that you should do something with your life (snaps fingers) to finally doing something.

   17. KRKevin Ross37:45

       Mm-hmm.

10. 37:45 – 45:17

    Thrown into the deep end: first lessons, social anxiety, and rapid improvement

    1. JRJoe Rogan37:45

       Like, what was it like when you finally started training? What, what did it feel like when you actually f-... I mean, 'cause you hadn't r-... Had you done anything athletic before that?

    2. KRKevin Ross37:55

       Uh, you know, I was, I was always athletic my whole life. I, I was always really good at sports. I hated, I hated the team aspect of things though.

    3. JRJoe Rogan38:04

       Mm.

    4. KRKevin Ross38:04

       I despised being on a team of any kind. I, I love playing sports for the, for the love of it, you know, but anytime I was on, like, a team, I would... just hated it. I despised it, and you know, by the time I was like, I think 12, I completely turned my back on anything team-related because I felt... to me, it felt like it just ruined all the beautiful things about the physicality of, of athletics. You know, it put this, this, l-... this... well, it, it hindered me in a lot of ways, you know.

    5. JRJoe Rogan38:36

       Mm-hmm.

    6. KRKevin Ross38:36

       And having to rely on other people, you know, was always a big thing.

    7. JRJoe Rogan38:40

       Yeah.

    8. KRKevin Ross38:40

       You know, it's like, it doesn't matter how hard I work because this person might not have worked at all.

    9. JRJoe Rogan38:44

       Right.

    10. KRKevin Ross38:44

        And, you know, that's why I'm so drawn to fighting because it's, it's... even though you do have a team, of course, it really is... everything is on you, the good and the bad. There's nothing you can po-... you can point to all these other things, but it's really just you. Um, so yeah, I, I think back, and I look back to that time, and um-

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:04

        What was the first day like?

    12. KRKevin Ross39:05

        It was-

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:06

        Do you remember it?

    14. KRKevin Ross39:07

        Yeah, yeah, I do. It was, um... so I started out just doing private lessons. Hmm, I didn't even start doing classes until maybe six months to a year. (sniffs) So I was, I was doing private lessons on a daily basis. My, uh, trainer, uh, Master Chen, who's one of, uh, Toddy's original instructors, he had me in the gym at like 6:00 AM. This is min-... so this is January in Vegas, which is brutally cold, which, you know, a lot, not a lot of people realize, and their gym had no heat. All the windows (laughs) were like broken, so there's no insulation or anything, and, um, I don't know, I was, I was just... I was, I was so excited, yet I was so nervous. And you know, obviously, I wanted to do really well and, and perform, and everything was just... everything was so new that I didn't really, I didn't really have a lot, um... I couldn't even really process it. So there wasn't a lot of, um, there wasn't really a lot of thought that was going into it. I was just, I was just excited. I was just ex-... constantly e- excited and motivated and wanted to... my whole goal was to fight, you know. I was like, "I wanna fight even if it's only one time." So everything I did was with that mentality, you know. I was like, "I wanna get better. I wanna get better. I wanna do everything that I can in every moment," and I put every ounce of myself into... every second of the day was geared towards this, you know. I was singularly focused on this goal.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:32

        Can you remember the first day?

    16. KRKevin Ross40:34

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan40:34

        Can you remember the first day of footwork and-

    18. KRKevin Ross40:36

        (claps hands) Yeah. Oh, man. It's so-

    19. JRJoe Rogan40:37

        ... holding your hands up?

    20. KRKevin Ross40:38

        (laughs) The first day, the first day, he has me up in the ring. It must have been maybe the second or third day because, um, there was... I know there was other people there, and maybe they were just hitting the bag and stuff. So there, there was a couple of the other pro fighters there, or other... they were pro fighters. I was nobody. And I'm up in the ring, and so this is day one. He's like, "Shadowbox." I've never done anything fighting-related. I'm like, "What do you mean?"

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:09

        (laughs)

    22. KRKevin Ross41:09

        Like, I don't even know what that is. You know what I'm saying? Like, "What do you mean shadowbox?" So, like, so much of my... everything in my career has been, like, thrown into the deep end, can you swim kind of thing, and like this forced learning curve, you know. You know, I didn't get babied into anything, you know. It's like, "All right, shadowbox, go ahead." And everyone, all these fighters are s-... like, staring at me, watching me. I'm like, "I don't know what I'm doing, but whatever."

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:38

        (laughs)

    24. KRKevin Ross41:38

        You know, it was, it was, it was traumatic in a lot of ways, but having to confront that and face that, particularly me, 'cause I'm, uh, naturally a very shy person, a person that, that doesn't speak ever to anybody. I mean, even now, you know, I'm still very quiet, but if you knew me back then, I was basically a mute, you know, and I had no interaction with especially strangers and people I didn't know, and even the ones that I do, I'd still barely even communicate with. So all of this was so foreign to me. This was like an alternate universe that I was in. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was so scary, but it was like, "You don't have a choice. Like, get up there and do it or get the fuck out of here."

    25. JRJoe Rogan42:21

        Yeah.

    26. KRKevin Ross42:21

        You know what I mean? So there wasn't, there wasn't time for me to really (sniffs) think about it or, or, or, or like even be really nervous about it. It's like, "Do it. Shadowbox." Like, and, and, and this instructor, he barely spoke English, so it's not like I can like say, "Hey, well, I- I don't really know what I'm doing, and maybe you can show me some things."

    27. JRJoe Rogan42:40

        (laughs)

    28. KRKevin Ross42:40

        Just like, "Go." And that's very much a, a, a Thai approach, is like, "Just do it. I'm not gonna tell you how. I'm not gonna explain the steps. Just go kick the bag or, or hit it. Just do it." And, um...Yeah, it was, uh... It was scary.

    29. JRJoe Rogan42:56

        But then once you got some momentum, once you had a couple of weeks under your belt-

    30. KRKevin Ross43:02

        Mm-hmm.
11. 45:17 – 55:15

    First fight disaster—and why it mattered: humility, resilience, and a win streak

    1. KRKevin Ross45:17

       Instead of having to explain to them what it is, and, um... Yeah, so nine months in, I got the, uh... There was gonna be a fight in Salt Lake City, Utah, and, uh, a bunch o- of the other people at the gym were fighting as well, and we were all gonna go up there, um, and compete.

    2. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       Is this an amateur fight?

    3. KRKevin Ross45:35

       Yeah, yeah, and-

    4. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       Headgear?

    5. KRKevin Ross45:37

       Um, mm-hmm. No. Yes, headgear but... You know, the funny thing was we had headgear but we didn't have shin guards, we had eight-ounce gloves, and we had knees to the head.

    6. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       Really?

    7. KRKevin Ross45:49

       Which was a trip. So, um, anyway, so w- so... And I was like, "Oh, yeah, great, we get to fight," and then I was so excited and, um, my pops and, uh, Gina and we, uh, we drove up there and, um, you know. Like I said, I really felt like I was on my way, but when we got there, um, the guy that I was originally supposed to fight, I don't remember if he backed out or it was just that he was closer in weight to somebody else, um, you know. And that was kind of the thing back then, we would just show up at places and be like, "You gotta fight for me or don't you?" And, um, they didn't, and, um, I was like, "Oh my god." I was devastated. I was devastated. I'm like, "I did all this work, I was so ready and now I don't have a fight." And, you know, my trainer's like, "Well, is, is there somebody else you can get?" And so the, the, the, the promoter, you know, he's calling around, calling around and then finally he's like, um, "Well, there's one guy that's gonna take it but he outweighs you by 20 pounds and he's had about 30 fights already."

    8. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       (laughs)

    9. KRKevin Ross46:52

       I was like, "Let's do it. I don't give a fuck, man." I was like, "I didn't do all this for nothing," you know what I'm saying? And, you know, and again that like... That was just our mentality. The way that we came up and the people that we came up under was you fight anytime, anywhere, anyone, any style, any weight, it doesn't matter. And, um, so yeah, I didn't even... I didn't even really think about it, uh, as far as, like, that goes, you know. It's like, "I get to fight? That's fucking awesome, man." And, uh, I felt, I felt, I felt confident in a way, but it's also that you have no idea what you're really doing. Like, you can train your whole life, but if you've never fought, you don't know anything, anything. You have no concept of what it's like to be in there. You could have the hardest sparring in the world with, with a complete stranger and it's night and day between a real fight and sparring. And so it's like, yeah, you, you, you wanna feel confident going in there but you have no concept of, of what it is. So it's really just fake. It's fake confidence. And, um... I got fucking crushed, man. So I go out there and, uh, I, uh... You know, I have no concept of, uh, like, pacing myself or anything, so I just, like... I'm, like, sprinting at this guy. And in, like, 30 seconds, I was j- done. I couldn't breathe, I couldn't think, I couldn't... I could barely even see. It felt like, it felt like I was underwater, um, and it was, it w- it, though it was the worst thing in the world 'cause nothing this guy was doing was hurting me and every time he would hit me, the whole crowd's like, "Oh." And all I wanted to do was just say, "I- it's n- it's isn't bothering me. This isn't hurting." Like, I wanted to, like, tell everybody-

    10. JRJoe Rogan48:32

        (laughs)

    11. KRKevin Ross48:32

        ... like, "This isn't hurting me. I, I can't breathe. Like, all I'm really trying to do is not pass out right now." And, and, I, I, I mean, like, physically I, I couldn't do anything but, but I was able to last for a while and, uh, do a couple decent things in there. But by the third round, he was just battering me and kneed me in the face and, you know, he d- he just kept clinching me up and was just kneeing the piss out of me, and there was nothing I could do. And they, they finally stopped it-... in the third round and I was, I was devastated, man. I was, I was devastated, and I remember walking, like, as I was walking back to the, the locker room, everyone in the crowd was, like, cheering for me and they're like, "Oh, that was awesome, man." Like, like, "Good job, good job." I'm like, "What is wrong with these people? Like, that wasn't good. That was so terrible. That was terrible." And, um, I was, like, laying in the back, I'm bleeding all over the place and, uh, my opponent comes in and he's like, "Dude, that was your first fight?" I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "Man, I hate to see you in, like, a year or two." He's like, "That was, that was amazing." And, you know, that really, that really stuck with me, you know? That, that one, that he said that, and also just the, the impact I saw that you could have on people that, that it's not necessarily about whether you win or lose, that it's what you show in there. It's the heart that you show, it's the, the spirit that you show. And, um, you know, I, I had, like, a day or two when I was like, "Maybe this just isn't for me." You know, I thought, I thought that this ... that I was gonna be so good at this. I thought that I was just gonna, like, skyrocket to the top and I got crushed, man. I didn't even make it out of the fight. I'm like, "Maybe this isn't for me." But I was forced to face that day one. Like, "Do you want to do this regardless of how good you are, regardless if you win? If you, if you can't win and maybe you can't be the best in the world, do you still wanna do this?" Yeah, I fucking do. I love this so much and me having to face that so early on was, was, was s- extremely significant. I saw so many of the people I trained with would go on these undefeated streaks, like 10, 15, 20 fights, but inevitably, you will lose and if you haven't had to confront that early on, eventually you do. Uh, most of those people never fought again or are just, like, crushed emotionally where they weren't able to overcome it. But I had to deal with that the first day and overcome it and be like, "You know what? That doesn't matter. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bust my ass in the gym and I'll make sure that never happens again." And I went on to win, like, 19, 20 fights in a row from there. And, you know, that was really, um, a significant moment in my career where I had to confront the, the reality of this and, you know, that so much of, of fighting is, is, is, is, uh, perfect metaphor for, for, for things in life. Like, if you really want something, you can't always focus on what the results are or the immediate results, like winning and losing and all of these things are ... So much of that is just on the surface, ego level of things.

    12. JRJoe Rogan51:36

        Yeah.

    13. KRKevin Ross51:36

        And when you break it all down, like, what is your ... why are you doing this? You know, I'm doing this 'cause I love it. I'm doing this to improve myself. I'm doing this because it's what keeps me healthy, um, mentally, physically, spiritually and all of these things. And that's the most important thing. And yes, it was an extreme motivator to be better and, you know, not to let that hap- happen to me again, but, um, you know, really, it really, uh, made things clear to me early on, like, what's important here.

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:09

        And also, just to get over that it's so, it's so psychologically important that you, like you were saying, you just kept getting, sort of, tossed to the wolves.

    15. KRKevin Ross52:19

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:19

        Everything you did was difficult. It was almost symbolic-

    17. KRKevin Ross52:22

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:22

        ... of your journey that you were forced to fight someone who had 30 fights and 20 pounds heavier-

    19. KRKevin Ross52:27

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan52:27

        ... and you had no experience. The, i- trusting the process is ... You really only trust the process if you ... it's difficult.

    21. KRKevin Ross52:36

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan52:36

        You know that whole expression, trust the pro- ... Well, if you're fucking everybody up, what do you mean trust the process?

    23. KRKevin Ross52:41

        (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:41

        You're out there just fucking everybody up. Of course I'm trusting the pro- I'm the man.

    25. KRKevin Ross52:44

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:44

        Right? But when you get your ass handed to you and then you have to rebuild, then you have to realize, well, there's a series of variables in here you're encountering. With, uh, variables in speed, in, in, in aggressiveness, and in styles, and in trickery, and some people are better than others at figuring you out, and some people have a style that's tailor-made to defeat your style.

    27. KRKevin Ross53:04

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan53:05

        And it's good when that does happen.

    29. KRKevin Ross53:07

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:07

        And not just to trust the process, but to, uh, appreciate the journey.
12. 55:15 – 57:53

    Hardship, meaning, and the myth of “making it”: success without destination

    1. JRJoe Rogan55:15

       I have one favorite day in the weather in Los Angeles. The weather in Los Angeles is perfect, right? It's just so often it's, like, 80 degrees and sunny. It's, like, 90% of the time, 80 degrees and sunny. Uh, me and my friend Brian and, uh, my friend Steve Rinella, we, we, uh, filmed this television show called Meat Eater and went on a hunting trip in Prince of Wales Island in Alaska where it's the rainiest part in North America.

    2. KRKevin Ross55:41

       Mm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan55:41

       It's so fucking rainy. You, you think you're gonna stay dry in your tent but there's no such thing as dry.

    4. KRKevin Ross55:48

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan55:48

       Like, and, and I realized this one of the first nights. I had to get up to take a piss in the middle of the night and I had a headlamp and I turned my headlamp on and inside my tent was like it was raining-

    6. KRKevin Ross55:59

       (laughs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan55:59

       ... because it was so much ... There was mist.

    8. KRKevin Ross56:02

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan56:02

       There was moisture, like, so much moisture that turning on the headlamp was like you, you were, like, doing it in fog. Like, everything was wet.

    10. KRKevin Ross56:10

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan56:10

        My sleeping bag was wet. My clothes were wet and I was like, "Oh, you go, you don't get dry. There's no dry." We had one day where we had a fire.

    12. KRKevin Ross56:18

        Oh.

    13. JRJoe Rogan56:18

        One day we figured out how to start a fire actually using Fritos. It was a pro tip. If you ever fucking-

    14. KRKevin Ross56:23

        (laughs)

    15. JRJoe Rogan56:23

        Fritos are made with some fucking crazy toxic grease that, uh, they work great-

    16. KRKevin Ross56:29

        Mm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan56:29

        ... as lighter fuel.

    18. KRKevin Ross56:31

        Oh.

    19. JRJoe Rogan56:31

        Like, if you light them-

    20. KRKevin Ross56:32

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:32

        ... they stay lit for a long time.

    22. KRKevin Ross56:34

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan56:34

        And then we were, like, taking, like, the inside of logs and, like, using that wood and wood that was, like, maybe, uh, under the bottom of other wood so it didn't get as wet.

    24. KRKevin Ross56:45

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:45

        We slowly put a fire together. Anyway, I was there for six, seven days. We got back to LA and it was 80 and sunny, and the feeling of that sun, I was like-

    26. KRKevin Ross56:57

        Mm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:57

        ... "This is the same sun I always experience." But it's always just n- n- you know, it's normal. It's no big deal. It's just California weather.

    28. KRKevin Ross57:04

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan57:04

        Another day in paradise, but not that day.

    30. KRKevin Ross57:07

        Yeah.
13. 57:53 – 1:13:00

    Kevin’s disclosure of abuse: isolation, betrayal, and rejecting victim mentality

    1. KRKevin Ross57:53

       ... yeah, we don't want that but, but those are the things that help you grow and those are the things that, that, that we inevitably need. Um, you know, I, uh, I hate to ... Well, I don't hate to because I, I want to do this. I'm gonna toss a little hand grenade at you and, uh, see what you wanna do with it here. But, um, I've been (sighs) thinking about a- this a lot lately and, and, you know, wanting to communicate my story and these things that have happened to me and then this opportunity came up and this opportunity to, to reach a lotta people and to ... There's that quote that says, "Be the person that you needed when you were younger."

    2. JRJoe Rogan58:32

       Mm.

    3. KRKevin Ross58:32

       You know? And, and Gina has that on her wall and it stares me in the face every day and I realize that I now am the person that I needed when I was younger and if somebody would've opened up their mouth and let me know that I wasn't alone and that, that I wasn't n- so isolated and so many, so many horrible things that we all deal with is because we feel isolation. We don't think anyone could understand and we don't think that anyone else is going through these things and, and if we did, just that knowledge of not being alone would be so significant. But when I was 14 years old, I was molested by my stepmother and this went on for, uh, well over a year, close to two years, and (sniffs) it was o- obviously detrimental to me and these are, these, these are things that I'm just now finally starting to be able to understand and, and, and realize, like, what happened to me and, and realize how young I was at the time. You know, when I meet a, a 14-year-old kid, like, you're a fucking baby. You're a baby. You, you know, it's like when we think about ourselves when we were younger, like, at least myself, I'm like, "I still feel the same I did when I was younger. I was just little." You know what I mean?

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:51

       Yeah.

    5. KRKevin Ross59:51

       Like, but you don't really understand how little you were until you have, like, a little 12, 14-year-old kid standing next to you and are like, "You're not," like, "You don't even..." How could, how could that happen? And l- like, thinking about how ... Saw a study that said one in six males are abused by the time they're 18, which means every one of us probably knows somebody that this has happened to. You know, and to think how, uh, devastating it is, uh, to women, um, but, but, but to our men, it's, it's, it's, it's such a different thing 'cause you're almost, it's almost viewed, uh, sp- well, when it happens f- from a, a, a woman, you know, it's, it's almost viewed as, like, a good thing.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       Yeah.

    7. KRKevin Ross1:00:35

       You know? Like, it's a positive thing. Like, "Oh, ch- I wish that happened to me when I was a kid." Like, "I wanna, I wanna be molested." And, um, you know, we're not able to really understand it, um, a- and understand the, the damage that it, that it does and, and, you know, I, I, I, I ... If I wouldn't have felt so alone and, and, and, and so isolated at the time, I, you know, I don't necessarily know if things would've changed but I definitely would've-... wouldn't have felt so alone, you know. I wouldn't have felt like there's nobody in the world that could possibly understand this. There's nobody that ... Who can I talk to about this? You know, like, I can't talk to my friends. A couple of my friends knew. They thought it was the coolest shit ever, you know. They're like, "I want that. I want that bad." And I'm like-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       Well, it was your stepmom too, which is-

    9. KRKevin Ross1:01:26

       Dude, it was, it was (sigh) so confusing, you know. I was, I was, I was very conflicted by it, you know. Like, I couldn't understand it at all and then to have this person, like, man- mentally manipulating me and ma- making like, "Oh, it's not a big deal." It's o- it's almost like it's a good thing, you know. Like, it's like, "There's nothing wrong," you know. "It's, it's, um, you know, I'm not a stranger." And, and this, um, you know, even prior to the ... As I said, I started drinking when I was 12, but, but this really just derailed me so much and made me internalize and put up these barriers and walls around me and, and things that I'm ... Like I said, I'm only even just at, at this age starting to understand, like, the negative habits that this created in me, um, of, uh, of distrust and of, of, of, of, of, of negativity and of, of, of, um, you know, um, having to be, having to be alone and not trust people and, you know.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:39

        Mm.

    11. KRKevin Ross1:02:39

        And, and so many things like that, that, you know, like, Gina's probably the only person that I've ever talked to in depth about this. I mean, m- my couple people in my family know and almost none of my friends know. I've never spoken to this to anybody, you know. I, I, I, I, I tried to, uh, go to a therapist once and, and, and talk about this, but I started realizing, like, this therapist is getting more out of this, our, our interaction, than I, than I am. Like, he's, you know, like, a overweight person that needs, like, self-confidence help. I'm like, "Oh, geez, man." Like, like, "Who can I fucking talk to about this?" And, you know, maybe, maybe I can't talk to anybody, but I am in a position to where I can reach out and, and let other people let ... know that they're not the only ones going through this. And, and that has been weighing on me so much lately, especially over the last few years, um. And I'm like, "You are in a position to be able ... Even if you ... It only helps one person. Like, you can. You just don't know how to." I'm like, "Well, I could write about it, or I could do, like, a video blog or something." And, and I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I'm like, "How do I ... How can I do this? And, like, should I do this?" I'm like, "I don't know if that's, like, a good thing." Like, uh, um, it's not like I'm a, like, psychologist or someone that can, like, help with this and ... But I, I, I, I just felt like I need to express this and, and, and, and communicate this and then maybe it can do some good for even one person. And then if I didn't, that would haunt me forever.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:04:21

        I, uh, I had an experience when I was 13 with a girl who lived up the street who was 21, a co- a couple times. But, um, it was very different than your experience. It was, uh, (sniffs) I mean, I'm f- ashamed to say it, but it was kinda fun. You know, it's, it was different. It was ... I couldn't believe it. It was very weird.

    13. KRKevin Ross1:04:45

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:45

        But it definitely, like, kinda screwed up my idea of what boy/girl interaction was.

    15. KRKevin Ross1:04:54

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:54

        I didn't go from, like, 13-year-olds most the time they're like, "You want a kiss? I don't know, do you? I don't know."

    17. KRKevin Ross1:05:01

        (laughs) Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:01

        To, you know, this girl grabbing my dick and-

    19. KRKevin Ross1:05:03

        (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:04

        ... pulling her tits out. She was a woman, you know.

    21. KRKevin Ross1:05:06

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:06

        She was 21.

    23. KRKevin Ross1:05:07

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:07

        And it didn't, it didn't hurt me like your story. Like, your story hurts. Like, it sounds like you were betrayed and you were, you were s- ... And also, the, the fact that it was your stepmom, I mean, with me, it was like, "What the fuck was that all about?"

    25. KRKevin Ross1:05:23

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:23

        And I don't, I don't ... I didn't tell anybody.

    27. KRKevin Ross1:05:26

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:05:26

        I didn't tell anybody for, like, fucking years and years later. I probably didn't tell anyone until I was in my 20s.

    29. KRKevin Ross1:05:31

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

        And, uh, I think I probably told a girlfriend when I was in my 20s.
14. 1:13:00 – 1:55:40

    Authenticity vs fake motivation: real experience, real friends, real checks

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:13:00

       Well sometimes I think when someone like you goes through something like this and comes out on the other end...... what you can do by talking about this can set a path for so many people-

    2. KRKevin Ross1:13:16

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:13:16

       ... to understand that, you know, when someone looks at you, you know, they see you fighting on television and they, they, they, they see you on the internet and, you know, successful Muay Thai fighter and, you know, you look cool, you have this beautiful girlfriend, everything seems so positive. You know, when you're a young kid and your life is shit-

Episode duration: 2:32:21