Joe Rogan Experience #1418 - Don Gavin

1. 0:00 – 1:30

   Revisiting the Boston comedy boom (late ’70s–’80s) and why it felt unique

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... three, two... Hello, Don Gavin.

   2. DGDon Gavin0:05

      Hello, Joe Rogan.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Good to see you, sir.

   4. DGDon Gavin0:07

      It's good to see you. It's been a long time.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Pleas- Yeah, it's a pleasure to get you on here, man.

   6. DGDon Gavin0:10

      I'm thrilled to be here.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      We've talked about you, uh, I don't know how many times. Many times.

   8. DGDon Gavin0:14

      I've heard that from, from my son. He says you mention my name glowingly, is the word he uses.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Yeah, well, hey, man, you were a giant inspiration to me when I was, uh, coming up-

   10. DGDon Gavin0:23

       That's good to hear.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       ... when I was a kid. Well, you know, I've talked about this so many, many times, but that era of, uh, Boston comedy, when I started in '88, and, uh, you guys had already been through the Ding Ho and all that's, uh, been gone. And it was the heyday of comedy. It was an amazing time, and, you know, I was very fortunate to be able to see guys like you and, and Sweeney and, you know, and all those guys. Mike Donovan and Kevin Knox, and I mean, you can go down the list over and over and over again. Lenny Clarke, and just an amazing time for, for standup back then.

   12. DGDon Gavin0:55

       Yeah, that was certainly the heyday. Uh, I came in, I started at around '79 and had been going on for one or two years, but going on meaning not much going on, you know. And then it built and built and built, and then to the point that, uh, that explosion, as you said, uh, wow. It... And, and I, I always like to think people talk about a Boston style, there wasn't a Boston style other than being very aggressive maybe.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Yeah.

   14. DGDon Gavin1:20

       Uh, there were... But everybody had different ways of doing, because we didn't know.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Yeah.

   16. DGDon Gavin1:24

       It wasn't like an LA style or a New York style. There was just d- all different approaches coming out to the same end, you know?

2. 1:30 – 2:30

   The Ding Ho roots: hostile rooms, DIY beginnings, and early innovators

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:30

      Yeah, you started in '79, so that was really, like, the beginning of comedy clubs, right?

   2. DGDon Gavin1:36

      Yeah. Well, they weren't even comedy clubs. You mentioned the Ding Ho. Ding Ho used to be a, uh, like a saloon, and (laughs) the guys that were sitting at the bar when we first went in there, they refused to leave. So they stayed at the bar and all they would do is when we put somebody on the... uh, up on the stand, you know, they'd turn around and say, "Hey, shut the fuck up, we're trying to drink here."

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      (laughs)

   4. DGDon Gavin1:56

      You know, and we couldn't get... we couldn't get rid of them, so finally we wheeled it out because they got so tired of hearing the microphone or the... But that was, that was a... just a little... a joint, that's all you can say.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      Just-

   6. DGDon Gavin2:06

      And it became a Chinese restaurant there. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:08

      So it wasn't a Chinese restaurant at first?

   8. DGDon Gavin2:09

      It was just a saloon, I think, you know, and that... And then suddenly this guy came in, there's a... there was approach to put comedy in there, and Barry Crimmins was one of the guys originally, and Lenny, myself, Sweeney, as you mentioned.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:20

      Yeah.

   10. DGDon Gavin2:21

       DJ Haz and people like that. Uh, Jimmy De- Tingle.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       Yeah.

   12. DGDon Gavin2:25

       There was a bunch of us that came in at that time. And once again, no particular one style.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:30

       Yeah.

3. 2:30 – 5:05

   The ‘headliner hosts’ Boston format and running multiple rooms in one night

   1. DGDon Gavin2:30

      Other than the fact that we kind of created that the headliner would be the host.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:35

      Yeah, that was a weird Boston style.

   3. DGDon Gavin2:37

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:37

      Like when you have the Don Gavin Show-

   5. DGDon Gavin2:39

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      ... you would go out there and host-

   7. DGDon Gavin2:40

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:40

      ... and you'd do a few minutes in between each comic.

   9. DGDon Gavin2:42

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:43

       Yeah.

   11. DGDon Gavin2:43

       And, and he... Well, we didn't know it was weird. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       (laughs)

   13. DGDon Gavin2:46

       Because I wanted to be in charge, and if you... if Joe Rogan went on and he's supposed to do 15 and he'd do great, great. Now Bill Johnson comes on, he blows, I'm going to go up and take the mic after about six minutes, "Yeah, that was, that was Bill Johnson." Yeah, just great.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       (laughs)

   15. DGDon Gavin2:59

       And then go on to the next guy.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       Yeah. Yeah.

   17. DGDon Gavin3:01

       And then at the end, that headliner would close the show.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       Yeah. Yeah.

   19. DGDon Gavin3:05

       So you had that much control over it. But when you started doing more and more shows, like I started at Nick's in Boston. Initially, it was a joke. It was supposed to be a tax write-off and they tried to sabotage it. He used... that used to be a steak joint.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:18

       Really?

   21. DGDon Gavin3:18

       Yeah, yeah, Nick's Steak Joint. And, uh, well, so when we did it one week, the stage was collapsed, next week there'd be no, no sound, next week no lighting. Uh, the, uh, the doors would be locked, uh. And, but then eventually more and more people coming in, then they got upset because we were getting in the way of the people going to the st- the steak bar. And then they said, "Well, maybe we can make money on this." We go upstairs, there was an upstairs there, and that was used only on one night of the week for Greek belly dancers.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       (laughs)

   23. DGDon Gavin3:46

       Where, where they were paid $200, the, the Nick's was, $200. In fact, the- these Greek belly dancers, the, the production people, they brought in their own liquor, so they only made $200 for the whole gig.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       Wow.

   25. DGDon Gavin3:56

       So once we're doing a theater one show, then two, and eventually, and around the time when you came in, we were doing five shows my... on m- my night on Saturday night, five shows in the same place, upstairs and downstairs.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       Yeah, I remember that. Um, that was before I was getting paid, so I was, uh, really an amateur, but I remember watching... There was a show in the upstairs room-

   27. DGDon Gavin4:17

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       ... and then there was a smaller downstairs room, and then there was another time where they did it in the disco.

   29. DGDon Gavin4:22

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       Right? They had-
4. 5:05 – 8:26

   Party culture and the IRS crackdown: cash payments, audits, and fallout

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:05

      Well, that was the thing that was also about, uh... that was interesting about Boston comedy, was that the partying.

   2. DGDon Gavin5:12

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:12

      Like, they... You guys were a bunch of fucking savages. I mean, that's what I remember.

   4. DGDon Gavin5:16

      Uh, yeah, it was pretty widespread at that point.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:19

      (laughs)

   6. DGDon Gavin5:20

      And... But again, we didn't know.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:22

      Right.

   8. DGDon Gavin5:23

      Uh, and almost all of us got in trouble with the IRS because-

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:26

      Yeah.

   10. DGDon Gavin5:26

       ... you get paid in cash.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       Right.

   12. DGDon Gavin5:27

       And then you just kind of forgot. That's what I said to them when I got called in. I hadn't paid taxes in seven years and I got called in this... And I said to the guy, I thought it was humorous, I said, "Well, I forgot," and he didn't think that was that humorous at all, so-

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       No.

   14. DGDon Gavin5:40

       So that didn't... That went on and on and on and on and on and on 'til finally he got that cleared up. But-

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       How did they catch you on something like that? How did they calculate-

   16. DGDon Gavin5:47

       Because I was on the cover of a calendar magazine in The Boston Globe. There was a group shot of about 8, 10 of us and there was my picture, and this guy had the picture and, you know, when he confronted me, he goes, "How come we don't know anything about this?" Uh, you know, "Did, did they pay for this? What do you do for a living?" You know? Used to be a teacher. "Where's that money?" You know? So yeah, so that was how I got caught. So the little bit of infamy, of fame, I guess, that I had just went to hell.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       (laughs)

   18. DGDon Gavin6:12

       Pshh! Knock me down. Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:14

       Yeah, everybody got done in with the IRS.

   20. DGDon Gavin6:16

       Wow.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:17

       ... I know Donovan, he got done in.

   22. DGDon Gavin6:19

       Oh, the whole crew.

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       Right?

   24. DGDon Gavin6:19

       The whole crew, everybody.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:20

       So how do you clear that up? Like, how do they decide how much you owe?

   26. DGDon Gavin6:23

       Oh, that's certainly, that's a, uh, give and take type of situation. They have a, uh, you know, they have an appeasement thing, uh... I think. I mean, I had guys knocking on my, on the, on my door at 7:00 in the morning. And, and then you'd have to meet with this guy, and then that guy would get fired, and it would start all over again, and, and lawyers. And yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't pretty, but it finally got cleared up, you know. They, they took extra money. They knew that they weren't going to get the whole thing, so they took some of the money back.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       How many years did it take to clear it up?

   28. DGDon Gavin6:50

       (sighs) For me, it was (laughs) quite a while, four or five years, I think.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Wow.

   30. DGDon Gavin6:54

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5. 8:26 – 9:40

   From teacher to full-time comic: burnout, a car crash, and choosing comedy

   1. DGDon Gavin8:26

      (laughs) And when I was doing, when I first started, I was a high school teacher.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:30

      Yeah.

   3. DGDon Gavin8:30

      I was, so I was teaching and doing this, the getting out of the clubs at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and then tr- uh, attempting to be a teacher about three or four hours later, so, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:38

      (laughs) When did you quit?

   5. DGDon Gavin8:40

      I got out of teaching in '84, I think. So I did, maybe crossed over the two together. Uh, and that was, uh, that was (laughs) a, a, a rough patch there because I knew something had to give, you know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:51

      Yeah.

   7. DGDon Gavin8:52

      And I tell the story that, that, uh, I was coming home from teaching, and not from the clubs at night, but from teaching, and I fell asleep at the wheel. And this was, uh, on R- highway, and I was hitting the stanchions on the side of the highway, bang, bang, bang, bang. And eventually, as I'm going down this gully, and, you know, y- you always see fast in front of you? No, what passed in front of me was, how am I going to make it to the show tonight? And my head went through the windshield, the whole deal. I came up, uh, climbed up out of the gully and I'm trying to thumb to get home. And I, I've got blood running down my face. I had no idea how bad it was.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:23

      (laughs)

   9. DGDon Gavin9:23

      And then I had to go to the hospital. So I go... My friend, we go back there. I was gonna get the car out of the gully. The car was totaled, you know, to- I mean, beyond totaled. There's, and there's hair and blood on the, on the windshield.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:34

       Sh.

   11. DGDon Gavin9:34

       And I said, "Oh, I better pick one job or the other," so...

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:37

       (laughs)

   13. DGDon Gavin9:38

       So, so the comedy, comedy won out.

6. 9:40 – 13:54

   Breaking in before open mics: auditions, early pay, bombing, and a Lenny Clarke fight

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      Did they have open mic nights in '79?

   2. DGDon Gavin9:43

      Sure. Oh, no. In '79, no, no, no.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      When you first started-

   4. DGDon Gavin9:45

      No.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:45

      ... what was it like?

   6. DGDon Gavin9:46

      Uh, well, the first time, there was only one place in existence, and that was the Comedy Connection. And, uh...

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      The little one?

   8. DGDon Gavin9:52

      Uh, the one on Warrington Street?

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:53

      Yeah.

   10. DGDon Gavin9:54

       Yeah, yeah. Probably, you know, the... Yeah, 150 seats or 200 or something.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       Yeah.

   12. DGDon Gavin9:58

       And two guys ran that. Uh, the... I think they were... Sean Maury was the guy that had been on The Tonight Show. So that's... In our days, that was like, oh my god, you know? So he, he r- ran a comedy class, and two guys took the class, Billy Downs and-

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       Paul Barclay.

   14. DGDon Gavin10:10

       ... and Paul Barclay. And they decided that, you know, maybe we'll do this comedy thing. Again, people didn't know what a comedy club was. When... You mentioned that, like, when Jay Leno was way before us, there were, there were no comedy clubs. He worked maybe strip joints or, like, uh, at an auto place or this or that. There, there was, there was no place to go t- and even people would say, "What, what's a comedian?" You know, other than watching-

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       Right.

   16. DGDon Gavin10:33

       ... TV, you didn't know really what stand-up comedy was even. So, so the beginning of it started off slow. And I remember my first paycheck once I got paid $8. Uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:44

       That was your first?

   18. DGDon Gavin10:45

       $8, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       Wow.

   20. DGDon Gavin10:47

       And I still have that. I have the copy of the check.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:50

       Do you really?

   22. DGDon Gavin10:50

       No, a copy of it. I actually cashed it. I needed the $8. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:53

       (laughs) Of course.

   24. DGDon Gavin10:54

       Yeah, but... So that was with B- Billy Downs and, and Barclay too. And in those days, you are auditioned instead of a, uh, open mic night. So it was just the two of them. And I had to go in front of them, and I looked at the two of them. I said, "I don't, I don't thi- I don't really like this," because I s- I said, "I know at least one of you two are not going to understand what I'm doing," you know, "because you really don't look like a brain trust here." And, uh, and I got hired, and I immediately was really good. And the next show I r- that I did was really good. I'm doing the same 10 minutes because I was a bartender and had some patter.

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       Right.

   26. DGDon Gavin11:27

       And the third one, they called me, like, the night before and said, you know, "Somebody fell out. Can you come in?" And what I had done, I had written 15 minutes of comedy that day. Sure I had, you know, but in my mind, that's what I thought. And it was the worst death of the world.

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:41

       (laughs)

   28. DGDon Gavin11:41

       That 15... I got about two minutes in. And people always say, you know, "What happens when you bomb?" Well, you don't, you don't really, don't, you don't really bomb af- after you've been doing this for a while. But that two or three minutes seems like an eternity, you know? It was f- it seemed like hours. And then I just went back into some of the old stuff, and I got out. And I actually got into a fistfight with Lenny Clark about it because he was... He kept on saying to me, you know, "Wha- uh, do you work in New York?" Well, you know, "You've been..." I said, "I've never been on a stage before in my life," you know. And so we, we, we were not friends at all at the beginning. And we got into... We got into a little go at it. And, and- (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       You guys had a fistfight?

   30. DGDon Gavin12:15

       Well, he said... Yeah. He said, "Oh, that was a great set." He was shitting on me. And his friend saw, you know, was witness to the fight and broke it up. And he says to Lenny, he goes, he goes, "You..." He said, "What's that all about?" He said, he said, "You just said he had a good show." He's, "He sucked, he knows it," and then me, "And you're being an asshole to go calling him, you know, calling him out." And we then became fast friends after that.
7. 13:54 – 17:14

   Why Boston exploded: dense clubs, packed lines, and the scene’s later dilution

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:54

      But, but during the time when I was an open micer, things exploded. I was very fortunate. That was when there was three clubs on Warrenton Street alone.

   2. DGDon Gavin14:02

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:02

      Right?

   4. DGDon Gavin14:03

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:03

      There was Nick's, there was the Connexion, and then there was a comedy club at The Charles above the Connexion with a-

   6. DGDon Gavin14:07

      Yeah, the Duck Soup?

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      That was across the street. Yeah.

   8. DGDon Gavin14:10

      Right. On the, uh, the thing-

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:10

      But do you remember when Mike had The Comedy Club at The Charles above the Comedy Connection for a brief period of time?

   10. DGDon Gavin14:14

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:15

       So there was three, and then there was Duck Soup that was on the other side.

   12. DGDon Gavin14:18

       Right, right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:19

       So it was four-

   14. DGDon Gavin14:19

       All within, like, 100 yards or something.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       It's crazy. And they were all packed.

   16. DGDon Gavin14:22

       Yeah. And the lines would be out- that- that- uh, on the street in the middle of winter. I remember going out at my show on a Saturday, there's people out there with two inches of snow on their head.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       (laughs)

   18. DGDon Gavin14:31

       And I'm going, "You're actually waiting to see me?"

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:33

       (laughs)

   20. DGDon Gavin14:33

       "There's something wrong with you people." Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:35

       Well, there was something magical about those times because comedy clubs just overall were only a couple decades old in the whole country. I mean, you had the earliest ones were, like, uh, Comedy and Magic Club, Comedy Connection, Catch a Rising Star in New York.

   22. DGDon Gavin14:52

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:52

       You had a couple of clubs that were open before, you know, before the, the Boston explosion. But this is all real recently. So, like, imagine s- an art form that takes over the entire country, and it really only started in the year 2000.

   24. DGDon Gavin15:06

       Yeah, the in- from the inception-

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:07

       That's what it'd be like.

   26. DGDon Gavin15:08

       The e- from the inception to the explosion-

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       Yeah.

   28. DGDon Gavin15:10

       ... it was not a mature, uh, t- uh, art form at the time.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       No.

   30. DGDon Gavin15:14

       Maybe 10 years, 12 years.
8. 17:14 – 19:50

   ‘Murderers’ row’ and the outsider gauntlet: setting up visiting headliners

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:14

      Well, there was a ... there was about 12 of you.

   2. DGDon Gavin17:17

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:17

      You know, there was, like, 12 murderers who would just run around.

   4. DGDon Gavin17:20

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:20

      And to this day, I swear, I, I tell everybody, I think they're the best comics I've ever seen in my life.

   6. DGDon Gavin17:25

      Wow.

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:25

      To this day.

   8. DGDon Gavin17:26

      Wow.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:26

      There was moments at the com- at the, uh, uh, Nick's Comedy Stop and at Stitches where I'm like, "That is about as good as standup comedy ever gets." And some of those moments, like, the, the comedy stop ... Nick's Comedy Stop used to do a dirty trick. When a famous comedian would come into town-

   10. DGDon Gavin17:43

       Right. (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah. An outsider.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       (laughs) They would have some poor bastard, like, uh, you know, like, um, you know, fill in the blank. You don't even need him to na- uh, d- d- just someone who doesn't ... didn't do comedy that often.

   12. DGDon Gavin17:54

       Right. Okay.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:55

       Richard Lewis, let's say him.

   14. DGDon Gavin17:56

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:56

       And he would be the headliner.

   16. DGDon Gavin17:58

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:58

       But before him would be you, and Sweeney-

   18. DGDon Gavin18:03

       And Kenny Rogerson.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       ... and, and Kenny Rogerson, and Donovan. And it would just be a murderers row of fucking savages.

   20. DGDon Gavin18:11

       Yeah, yeah. Mike McDonald. This guy-

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:13

       Yes.

   22. DGDon Gavin18:13

       This guy acted, this guy acted ... Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       And th- these poor bastards. I, I, I saw ... I, I came to Nick's Comedy Stop right after Billy Crystal had bombed.

   24. DGDon Gavin18:20

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:21

       I, like, came up the stairs and they were talking about it. Like, you guys had set him up. And, y- you know, people were saying like, "You ain't ever seen nothing like it in your life. This poor guy's a movie star, and he went on stage and just ate plates of shit."

   26. DGDon Gavin18:31

       Yeah. After, yeah, after five people had just been destroyed.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:35

       Destroyed for an hour.

   28. DGDon Gavin18:36

       Yeah. Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:36

       Right? Like, so you got, like, each guy's doing 15 minutes.

   30. DGDon Gavin18:38

       Yeah.
9. 19:50 – 31:46

   Fast talk, Irish roots, and ‘savages’ on and off stage (plus brawls)

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:50

      Yeah. Well, it was, uh, it was a dog eat dog world there. You had to be able to survive in Boston. And the, the tension span, like the way the, the standup was, it's like they didn't let you guys, like I say, they, you didn't let anybody breathe. There's a Boston style of comedy. It's like, here's a fucking punchline. Here's another punchline.

   2. DGDon Gavin20:08

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:08

      Here's another punchline. Take a breath. Boom, there's another one. And these other guys that would come in from out of town were not accustomed to that style of performing.

   4. DGDon Gavin20:16

      It's a more laconic and more-

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:17

      Yeah.

   6. DGDon Gavin20:18

      ... just like this. And I s- I was told that I talked 70 words a minute, Gus to 100 when I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:24

      (laughs)

   8. DGDon Gavin20:24

      ... that I, that I (fast-forward sound) .

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:25

      Yeah.

   10. DGDon Gavin20:25

       And I have, you know, one of those, uh, VHS tapes where I, and I play some of th- those one time recently. I'm going, "I have no idea." All I know why there's people laughing, but I have, I have no idea what I was saying.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       (laughs)

   12. DGDon Gavin20:36

       I'm going, "Oh my God." Yeah. Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       Well, you had sneaky punchlines. You would sneak punchlines in. It would look-

   14. DGDon Gavin20:42

       The asides.

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:42

       ... like you were done and the, the asides would come in.

   16. DGDon Gavin20:44

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:45

       And boom.

   18. DGDon Gavin20:45

       Or a tag here or-

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:46

       Yeah.

   20. DGDon Gavin20:46

       ... a tag there and move over there.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:47

       Did you just develop that style on your own? Mm-hmm.

   22. DGDon Gavin20:50

       Yeah, I didn't... Again, w- what did I know about style? I just, that's just the way it was. I was always a fast talker. You know, you come from big Irish families and if you don't talk fast, you're not going to get the bread or you're not going to get the food. So, you know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:02

       Yeah.

   24. DGDon Gavin21:02

       So I had three brothers and, uh, and downstairs my cousins lived and there were six there. So four, you know, that's a... So there was always bang, bang, bang, bang, bang to that. And it was all... Everybody was an Irish Catholic basically that was on the comedy scene, you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:14

       Yeah.

   26. DGDon Gavin21:15

       It was certainly not homogenized by any means.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:17

       Well, that's also interesting too, because it was in a lot of places it was more of a Jewish thing.

   28. DGDon Gavin21:22

       Sure, sure.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:23

       But Boston, it wasn't. Boston, it was like a lot of... And big guys too. That was the other thing. Everybody was like six foot three.

   30. DGDon Gavin21:31

       (laughs)
10. 31:46 – 36:08

    Drugs, drinking, and the Ding Ho after-hours: cops, cards, and sunrise exits

    1. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       Were the drugs there from the beginning?

    2. DGDon Gavin31:49

       Um, let me think. Pe- uh, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, it's like in the old, it's like in the old days, you know, the s- you know the story about your mother says, "Don't..." you know, gives somebody who offers you drugs, says, "Don't take them." I said, "Well, they don't offer you, you have to buy them." You know?

    3. JRJoe Rogan32:03

       (laughs)

    4. DGDon Gavin32:03

       So it's like- (laughs) but initially, you didn't have to buy them. That was the thing. Everybody, everybody was doing it, you know. It's like smoking. When I was growing up as a kid, 95% of people smoked and why? Because other everybody else smoked. You know, I stopped smoking in the year 2000. Mike Clarke and I had a bet and none of us... we haven't had a cigarette since. So, apparently it wasn't addictive, but everybody smoked. So the same thing in those days, everybody was either a drinker or doing the, doing the blow or, uh, smoking the bones and some... (laughs) You, you had at least two or three vices. A lot of, a lot of deck, deck chairs to throw off, you know?

    5. JRJoe Rogan32:36

       Did you have any of those vices before you got into standup?

    6. DGDon Gavin32:39

       Uh, no, I think it grew (laughs) it pretty much, uh, blossomed once I got in there, now that I think of it. Uh, yeah, I used to smoke. That was about it. But nothing, no, nothing else, nobody-

    7. JRJoe Rogan32:50

       Drinking?

    8. DGDon Gavin32:50

       Uh, not he- heavily at all. Hardly, hardly ever.

    9. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       Not heavily.

    10. DGDon Gavin32:53

        And I covered up for them, ever since.

    11. JRJoe Rogan32:55

        (laughs) Yeah.

    12. DGDon Gavin32:55

        I'm... I made up a lot of ground. I can say. I mean, now all, all the guys are AA. I'm the... I'm like the only one left drinking and I notice there's much more liquor everywhere I go. There's always liquor now, there's-

    13. JRJoe Rogan33:05

        Yeah, everybody cleaned up.

    14. DGDon Gavin33:07

        Yeah, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan33:08

        Yeah. They're, they're looking at you like you're the last Mohican.

    16. DGDon Gavin33:10

        Yeah. It's like, uh, Bobby Nickman, a comedian and a writer, and he, he said that he first got into AA because he needed the stage time, you know, to take it up and talk in front of a crowd.

    17. JRJoe Rogan33:21

        Right.

    18. DGDon Gavin33:21

        But he was one of the first guys that kind of cleaned up, and then this guy, and then this guy and, and there's very few of them now.

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:27

        Well, a lot of guys came from AA and that's how they got their start. You remember Dave Fitzgerald?

    20. DGDon Gavin33:32

        Oh, sure.

    21. JRJoe Rogan33:32

        Funny guy.

    22. DGDon Gavin33:33

        Yeah. Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan33:34

        He got into comedy from Alcoholics Anonymous-

    24. DGDon Gavin33:37

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:37

        ... because he would go up on stage and tell these crazy old drinking stories-

    26. DGDon Gavin33:40

        Sure.

    27. JRJoe Rogan33:40

        ... and people would laugh, and then he polished those stories up.

    28. DGDon Gavin33:42

        Sure.

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:42

        Made them tighter, and then started doing standup.

    30. DGDon Gavin33:45

        Yeah. Um, but, uh, it, it, uh... when you... in the... we'll say in the mid '80s, the early '80s, if, if you weren't a drinker, you were the exception to the rule, again.
11. 36:08 – 40:01

    Touring realities and industry scams: Houston stories and Spotlight Agency theft

    1. JRJoe Rogan36:08

       (laughs) God, I mean, it's, it's crazy how something like that can happen where there is just this one place and one core group of people, and then the comedy club scene branches out from that. Like Houston used to have this place called the Laff Stop. Did you ever work there?

    2. DGDon Gavin36:22

       Sure, I did. Yeah, yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan36:23

       That was the same thing for Houston. Houston had a great scene.

    4. DGDon Gavin36:26

       Houston, well, Houston was a little crazy, uh, with people too.

    5. JRJoe Rogan36:28

       It was wild.

    6. DGDon Gavin36:29

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan36:29

       It was wild.

    8. DGDon Gavin36:29

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan36:29

       Yeah, and when I first went there, it was when it was at its wildest. It was after Kinison had gone.

    10. DGDon Gavin36:34

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan36:35

        And Bill Hicks had left, and all those guys were gone and-

    12. DGDon Gavin36:37

        Yeah, Collabo was another name-

    13. JRJoe Rogan36:39

        Yeah, yeah.

    14. DGDon Gavin36:40

        ... in that group, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan36:40

        Uh, Jimmy Pineapple.

    16. DGDon Gavin36:41

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan36:41

        J- Jimmy worked with me the first time I ever did a weekend there.

    18. DGDon Gavin36:43

        Really?

    19. JRJoe Rogan36:44

        And the first time I was ever there, I was like, "Wow, this place is like a lot like Boston." Like early... like these were a bunch of wild fucks. They had an o-... they had a show going on in the main room and then in the bar area they had another stage and the open mic night started at 8:00, went till 2:00 in the morning. So you'd get done with your show, the show would be over at 10:00, and you'd go out to the bar and you'd be fucking hanging out there for another four hours because the show's still going on.

    20. DGDon Gavin37:06

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan37:06

        It was, it was crazy.

    22. DGDon Gavin37:07

        It was crazy, but I do remember a good story there was we used to walk from the hotel to the venue and, um, and it was all the, you know, cowboys basically down, down there and so I get... I'm walking, I get hit in the back with a water balloon, but you would have thought I was shot with... shot by a, by, uh, a rhino gun, you know? Bang, that thing... I was soaking wet. When I get there, I had to put on one of their T-shirts and I'm going, "I can't believe how, how this guy hit me that good." So when I get to the club, I see the car, it was recognizable, I'm going...... they, oh, they're come, they're coming to see me. So I went inside, got a hammer, and went out during the show when they opened the advertisement and broke every window in their car-

    23. JRJoe Rogan37:45

        (laughs)

    24. DGDon Gavin37:45

        ... including the directionals, the side thing, and stuff like that. And I called my agent on stage. He goes, "Well, I got hit by those window." I said, "Whoever did it..." And nobody took claim. I said, "What? But what a great aim you had." And, but I didn't mention a, about their car. Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan37:56

        That's hilarious.

    26. DGDon Gavin37:58

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan37:58

        Did you go out and watch-

    28. DGDon Gavin37:59

        Oh, yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan38:00

        ... or check to their window?

    30. DGDon Gavin38:00

        (laughs) Yeah.
12. 40:01 – 41:58

    The modern Comedy Store and comedy ‘tourism’: packed rooms without the coke

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:01

       The way The Comedy Store works is essentially that way. I mean, Mitzi obviously ran it, but she let the comedians run it for the most part.

    2. DGDon Gavin40:08

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:08

       You know, she let everybody work out their own issues and p- solve their own problems, and she would just book you.

    4. DGDon Gavin40:14

       Right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:14

       She'd just tell you when to go up, and it was just a madhouse.

    6. DGDon Gavin40:16

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:16

       And it, to this day, still very similar.

    8. DGDon Gavin40:19

       Is it still the same?

    9. JRJoe Rogan40:20

       Oh, it's packed every fucking night now.

    10. DGDon Gavin40:21

        Wow.

    11. JRJoe Rogan40:21

        Now it's crazy, because the internet, now people hear about it and they know about it. And you've got people flying in from Australia and England and Ireland just to come down and see comedy-

    12. DGDon Gavin40:30

        Really?

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:30

        All the time. All the time.

    14. DGDon Gavin40:31

        Wow.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:31

        Always meeting people there that are, they, they basically have comedy tourism from Europe. They fly in to The Comedy Store, like, e- any night of the week. Because The Comedy Store, on Monday, they'll post the s- the schedule for the week.

    16. DGDon Gavin40:43

        Sure.

    17. JRJoe Rogan40:44

        And so people read the schedule and they go, "All right, let's fly in on Tuesday." So they'll fly from fucking England, 11-hour flight, and come and see f- see comedy.

    18. DGDon Gavin40:51

        Wow.

    19. JRJoe Rogan40:52

        Because there's no comedy club like there. They have a Comedy Store over there in-

    20. DGDon Gavin40:54

        Right.

    21. JRJoe Rogan40:54

        ... in London, but it's not affiliated. It, they just stole the name, and they skirted into that international law by... You know, it's like they made their own 7-Eleven. "We're 7-Eleven too." Like...

    22. DGDon Gavin41:04

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:04

        It's not the same thing. But I don't know what the comedy's like over there in terms of The Comedy Store, but y- you know, they, when they wanna come here, they, they fly.

    24. DGDon Gavin41:12

        Wow.

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:12

        And so on any given night, you run into people that are from all over the world.

    26. DGDon Gavin41:15

        Wow.

    27. JRJoe Rogan41:16

        Yeah, it's crazy. You should come.

    28. DGDon Gavin41:18

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan41:18

        It's not... You should come just to see it.

    30. DGDon Gavin41:20

        I did work, uh, y- you know, years ago, way, way, way back.
13. 41:58 – 49:02

    Don’s album release: ‘Live with The Manhattan’ and finally going digital

    1. DGDon Gavin41:58

       Yeah. But it's funny that, uh, while we were doing it, uh, even though we were doing it for, for a living, it was, seemed like it wasn't a business.

    2. JRJoe Rogan42:06

       Yeah.

    3. DGDon Gavin42:07

       Like, let's say I'm promoting this album that I have, and, uh, I had this album d- done before, and it's, it was great, but I never had anybody produce it. You know, just made some copies of it. And it's called Don, Don Gavin Live with the Manhattan. Live with the Manhattan. And that was almost like a bootleg. I'd sell them, you know, maybe have a few after a show out the back of my trunk. (laughs) Like, um... But finally, we're releasing it. That's one of the reasons I bought it now.

    4. JRJoe Rogan42:32

       When did you record it?

    5. DGDon Gavin42:34

       I recorded it in 2011.

    6. JRJoe Rogan42:36

       Whoa.

    7. DGDon Gavin42:36

       And so it's on for 10 y- 10 years old. But my material hopefully, uh, doesn't get stale. It's because I don't do a lot of c- uh, current events, and I don't do, do politics, so it's still, uh... I mean, I have, uh, some, (laughs) some jokes that are old as some of the pe- the people who come to see me.

    8. JRJoe Rogan42:51

       (laughs) Now, did you... Like, when you, when you put that out, is that the first thing that you've ever put out?

    9. DGDon Gavin42:55

       Yeah, that's the only thing. And I, and I owned it, but I didn't do anything with it. So now, when I get to, uh, to, uh, Virtual Comedy Network with Joe Serpico, I mean, with Jimmy Serpico, he, uh, we did a, another album and a com- compilation of, uh, guys in Boston. And he, uh, saw... Somebody says something about me, my album. He goes, "I didn't know you had an album." And he got a copy of it, put it... He says, "Oh my God, this is something like discovering something." So he kind of came into my life for, to help out and see if we can produce this thing. And now it's on Sirius, uh, XM now and Pandora, and then it's going on, uh, all the streaming devices starting next week. But right now it's, uh, uh, I think they have the, uh, what do you call it? The rights just for those-

    10. JRJoe Rogan43:38

        Mm-hmm.

    11. DGDon Gavin43:38

        ... two stations there.

    12. JRJoe Rogan43:39

        So if somebody wants to get it, how do they get it?

    13. DGDon Gavin43:41

        Right now, they can get it on Sirius XM.... on Pandora. And as of, I think, next Thursday, it's on, uh, streaming live and 100+ shows.

    14. JRJoe Rogan43:47

        Okay. Because if it's on Sirius, you have to wait for it to air, right? You can't just... Uh, Sirius doesn't stream, right?

    15. DGDon Gavin43:54

        I've got to be honest with you, I'm, I'm not good about any of this stuff.

    16. JRJoe Rogan43:57

        I don't think so. Do they stream, Jamie?

    17. DGDon Gavin43:59

        You can probably search it. Yeah, yeah. They have downloadable stuff and whatnot.

    18. JRJoe Rogan44:02

        Oh, okay. So on the app, as opposed to on the-

    19. DGDon Gavin44:04

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan44:04

        ... actual thing that you... in your car?

    21. DGDon Gavin44:05

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JRJoe Rogan44:06

        Okay.

    23. DGDon Gavin44:06

        Yeah, I am so... Uh, in... Uh, anything mechanical. I-

    24. JRJoe Rogan44:09

        Well, I'm proud that I think you sent me your first p- text ever.

    25. DGDon Gavin44:13

        (laughs) On the internet. Which took me almost an hour and a half.

    26. JRJoe Rogan44:15

        (laughs)

    27. DGDon Gavin44:16

        Because, because I'm going, "W- okay, here's the T, here's an H over here." You know, I mean, that's how slow I was in doing that. And I-

    28. JRJoe Rogan44:22

        But you used to teach. You don't know how to type?

    29. DGDon Gavin44:23

        No. No, I had girlfriends.

    30. JRJoe Rogan44:25

        (laughs)
14. 49:02 – 54:02

    Writing process, recording sets, and building jokes: stage-first experimentation

    1. JRJoe Rogan49:02

       How do you write? Do you just sit down?

    2. DGDon Gavin49:03

       With a pen, mostly. Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan49:05

       Yeah.

    4. DGDon Gavin49:05

       Yeah. See? Hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan49:06

       Do you just sit down with an idea or do you have an idea, uh, ahead of time and you jot them down like in little notes and then-

    6. DGDon Gavin49:12

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan49:12

       ... try to flesh it out?

    8. DGDon Gavin49:13

       Yeah, like, like this. You know? Just this thing.

    9. JRJoe Rogan49:14

       Oh, like right... That you got right there?

    10. DGDon Gavin49:15

        Yeah. What- whatever. You know, that type of thing. Uh, um, I w- well... Like, a simple... This is not a whole joke, but just the other day I'm thinking about stoners, you know, and, and, and, and it's just, "Why can't we... W- where, why can't... W- where, why can't... Why can't we just all get a bong?"So, I thought that was funny.

    11. JRJoe Rogan49:32

        (farts)

    12. DGDon Gavin49:32

        Not that good. I didn't say it was good.

    13. JRJoe Rogan49:34

        (laughs)

    14. DGDon Gavin49:34

        You write stuff, you throw it away, right?

    15. JRJoe Rogan49:35

        I get it.

    16. DGDon Gavin49:36

        Just throw it away. Write it, throw it away.

    17. JRJoe Rogan49:36

        But so, these ideas pop into your head and you write them down-

    18. DGDon Gavin49:39

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan49:39

        ... and then do you flesh them out on stage or do you flesh them out on paper?

    20. DGDon Gavin49:43

        On stage, you know? But you've got... You know that. If... Some new thing, you know, have to fi- figure, "Where am I gonna incorporate this?" You're not gonna put it first.

    21. JRJoe Rogan49:50

        Right.

    22. DGDon Gavin49:50

        You're not gonna close with it.

    23. JRJoe Rogan49:51

        Right.

    24. DGDon Gavin49:51

        You gotta weave it in somehow into-

    25. JRJoe Rogan49:53

        Sometimes I'll open with a thing.

    26. DGDon Gavin49:54

        Really?

    27. JRJoe Rogan49:55

        Yeah. You never know.

    28. DGDon Gavin49:55

        That's kinda ballsy.

    29. JRJoe Rogan49:56

        'Cause I wanna dig a hole. I wanna see.

    30. DGDon Gavin49:58

        D- Really?
15. 54:02 – 1:06:07

    Tech reluctance, social media catch-up, and the ‘godfather’ debate

    1. DGDon Gavin54:02

       But you have to... That means you have to carry a phone with you, which-

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:04

       Yes.

    3. DGDon Gavin54:05

       ... which I don't.

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:05

       You don't carry a phone?

    5. DGDon Gavin54:05

       I'm an idiot, again, I told you.

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:06

       You don't carry a phone at all?

    7. DGDon Gavin54:08

       I do now, but now that I'm trying to, uh, be aware of what's, what's going on.

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:11

       (laughs)

    9. DGDon Gavin54:12

       But, uh... I mean, up until like two years ago, I had a real deluxe f-... Flip phone, you know?

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:15

        There's something to be said for those too, though.

    11. DGDon Gavin54:17

        Yeah, yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:17

        The flip phones are nice.

    13. DGDon Gavin54:18

        Yeah. Th-... You can certainly avoid people-

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:20

        Yes.

    15. DGDon Gavin54:21

        ... with the max one, you know?

    16. JRJoe Rogan54:22

        Yeah, and avoid text mess-... Ari, Ari Shaffir, he has a flip phone. He, he doesn't f-... Well, actually, he doesn't now. He, he actually went back to an iPhone, but he put a timer on it so he can only use his phone for an hour.

    17. DGDon Gavin54:31

        Well.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:31

        Yeah. Because otherwise, he starts playing with his phone and going on the internet and-

    19. DGDon Gavin54:35

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:35

        ... going on social media apps. You don't have any social media, do you?

    21. DGDon Gavin54:39

        Uh, we will soon.

    22. JRJoe Rogan54:41

        Oh.

    23. DGDon Gavin54:42

        We're in the process now. That's it, that's the deal, so...

    24. JRJoe Rogan54:45

        2020.

    25. DGDon Gavin54:46

        Yeah, yeah, I just-

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:46

        Making moves.

    27. DGDon Gavin54:47

        I just, uh... I'm kind of a slow mover. That's it.

    28. JRJoe Rogan54:51

        (laughs)

    29. DGDon Gavin54:51

        Like a turtle, s-... Races by me.

    30. JRJoe Rogan54:52

        Are you gonna do it all yourself? Are you gonna post tweets and all that shit yourself?

Episode duration: 1:14:21