Joe Rogan Experience #1423 - Andrew Doyle

1. 0:00 – 0:52

   Titania McGrath revealed: the persona behind the viral satire

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Three, two, one. This is your unveiling-

   2. ADAndrew Doyle0:04

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      ... because now people know.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle0:06

      That people know, yep. That's it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      That, first of all, Titiana.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle0:10

      So, this is the- I should've chosen a, an easier name. Like, uh, no one can get... it's Titania.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Titania?

   8. ADAndrew Doyle0:14

      Because she's named after the queen of the fairies in Midsummer Night's Dream.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Oh.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle0:17

       But-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Tell everybody your real name.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle0:18

       ... my real name's Andrew Doyle.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Do you have an issue with people now knowing-

   14. ADAndrew Doyle0:22

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       ... that, uh, Tatiana or Tit- Titania? Titania? Doesn't-

   16. ADAndrew Doyle0:27

       Titania's... yeah, she totally eclipsed me. I don't, like, I don't have-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       (laughs)

   18. ADAndrew Doyle0:31

       I'm basically not alive anymore. It's all about her, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Oh! Well-

   20. ADAndrew Doyle0:35

       It-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       ... I, I can't remember how I found out about you on Twitter, but just laughing really hard at something that you wrote. That was so close. You, you do such a good job of, like, blurring the line between outrageously woke and satire.

   22. ADAndrew Doyle0:50

       Yeah, it's that thing of trying to-

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       There you are.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle0:52

       ... try... (sighs)

2. 0:52 – 3:31

   How the satire works—and why people still fall for it

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:52

      Who's the girl?

   2. ADAndrew Doyle0:54

      Trying to tr- oh, there! Okay. Yeah, so the girl is a composite of four different women-

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:58

      Well, that's good.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle0:59

      ... put together, because I was worried about, you know, I don't wanna get sued or anything like that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:01

      Oh, for sure, yeah. So it's not-

   6. ADAndrew Doyle1:02

      Um-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:02

      ... a real human.

   8. ADAndrew Doyle1:03

      But, you know-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:03

      "Radical intersectionalist poet."

   10. ADAndrew Doyle1:05

       That's it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       (laughs) "Selfless and brave." Buy my book. (laughs)

   12. ADAndrew Doyle1:08

       (laughs) But-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       "Activist healer." (laughs)

   14. ADAndrew Doyle1:11

       (laughs) But also, I love that she's deadpan, 'cause it means that she sort of look- every time I post something, it's like there's this po-faced woman staring at you, daring you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Yes.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle1:18

       "Don't you dare," sort of-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       (laughs)

   18. ADAndrew Doyle1:19

       "... challenge me," or she could be mean in a way that I'm not. Uh, and so-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Wow.

   20. ADAndrew Doyle1:23

       ... that's kind of funny. You end up inhabiting this character who just isn't like you, and I do, I do end up thinking like her and, and, and, and-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:30

       (laughs)

   22. ADAndrew Doyle1:30

       ... and I even, I've even dreamt as her, and that sounds like a lie, but I have.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Wow.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle1:34

       So that's pretty scare- I, I ha- you know. Uh, she'll have to go eventually, 'cause I can't, like, I can't deal with that kind of... th- it's a psychosis, isn't it? It, it-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       Well, she's so big now. You have 420,000 followers.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle1:45

       It's weird, 'cause it happened really quickly. I, I, I guess it's because there's a whole cohort of people out there who are just sick of this stuff, and they-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Oh, yes.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle1:52

       ... you know, and I d- well, it's partly that, but also partly 'cause people still fall for her all the time. People constantly think it's real, you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:59

       Oh! All the time.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle2:00

       All the time.
3. 3:31 – 6:24

   Wokeness as pseudo-religion: purity tests, cancel culture, and no redemption

   1. ADAndrew Doyle3:31

      Like, like, f- frighteningly so, to, to a point that it's, it's a cult-like behavior. It's like, it's, it's, it's... like, I think the, the basic principles of, you know, standing up against racism, sexism, homophobia, all that stuff, is great.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Yes.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle3:46

      Uh, I think the, the, the woke movement isn't that. It's a kind of weird cultish, uh, pseudo-religious thing that is beyond that. So that you're no longer allowed to make mistakes. You can't be redeemed. There's no-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:58

      Right.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle3:58

      ... there's no r- it's a, it's, it's, it's got all those hallmarks.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Yes.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle4:01

      You know? It's like when the early Christians used to burn people out of love, you know? It's that-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:05

      (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle4:05

      It's that thing. And that's why we get this kind of cancel culture stuff. And I guess that's why I wanna... (sighs) And maybe that's why it's popular, 'cause people are sick of, uh, treading around on eggshells, worried about being misinterpreted or even worried about fucking up and making a mistake. I mean, what's wrong with saying something that's... every now and then, maybe you do say the wrong thing, and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Well-

   11. ADAndrew Doyle4:23

       ... um-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       ... it should be fine if you're a human being, but part of it is also that things are written down, right?

   13. ADAndrew Doyle4:28

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       And then when things are written down, you can see them over and over again. If you made a mistake and just said something-

   15. ADAndrew Doyle4:33

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       ... in normal human conversation, which is how we're supposed to communicate and how we normally communicate-

   17. ADAndrew Doyle4:37

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:38

       ... it just comes and goes.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle4:39

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:39

       You know? But when it's written down, then it becomes something different.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle4:44

       But it's more than that, isn't it? Because it's, it... I'll give you an example. So there was a guy who was the editor of a, uh, cookery magazine in the UK. And a vegan freelance journalist emailed him saying, "I'd love to do a thing about vegans." And he replied and made some joke about, "Yeah, you can do something about how we all force-feed them meat and we'll make them eat each other and all..." Stupid, flippant thing.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:02

       Right.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle5:02

       Rather than saying, "I was really offended by that. Can we talk about it? I don't think that's appropriate for you to email a freelance journalist," she screenshot the thing, put it on Twitter, made a thing of it, and he had to step down. So I think-

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       Wow.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle5:14

       ... that's the difference, is w- whereas, like, saying to someone, "Look..." Calling out a mistake or calling someone out for something they've done that you perceive to be bad, that's, uh, that's all well and good. But when you're using it to advertise how virtuous you are-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle5:27

       ... and, and how you, you're able to take someone down for the mistake that they made, that troubles me. 'Cause then it's no longer about, really about the issue.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       Well, I think what we're dealing with when it, when, when you're talking about woke culture, and I love that you made this comparison to radical religion, 'cause I think they're the same patterns.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle5:45

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       I think human beings have patterns that they follow, and you could say that you're not religious, but you follow these extremely rigid ideologies that don't allow for any variation whatsoever. You-
4. 6:24 – 11:56

   Art under ideological enforcement: Rowling, Tarantino, and representation metrics

   1. ADAndrew Doyle6:24

      Oh, yeah. And well, it happened with JK Rowling, didn't it?

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Yes.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle6:26

      It happened with JK Rowling because she defended... It was a British case, it was the woman who, um, was fired from her job because she posted some tweets saying that she didn't believe that sex was a mutable characteristic. She said there are men and women and you can't change... Now, that's her opinion and she's entitled to have it. Uh, but the, the judge in the UK ruled that no, it's, that's not a legitimate opinion to hold and you can be fired for that. Right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      (sighs)

   5. ADAndrew Doyle6:48

      So JK Rowling simply said, "No, that's not fair. That's, it's her opinion." And they went for her.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      Yeah.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle6:54

      Even though she's like, she's so woke, 'cause she keeps retrospectively deciding that her characters are gay and-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:59

      (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle6:59

      ... all sort of stuff like that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       Yes.

   11. ADAndrew Doyle7:01

       And, you know, D-Dumbledore's gay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Yes.

   13. ADAndrew Doyle7:03

       And d- and she got, she got-

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       They gone after her.

   15. ADAndrew Doyle7:06

       They went after her before that as well, 'cause in the Fantastic Beasts sequel with Dumbledore as a young man, uh, there's not much overt homosexuality. And so the LGBTQ community was saying, "Why isn't it more..." I mean, what do they want? Like, double penetration? What do they want with that?

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       Yes.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle7:20

       Like, they, they want a full-on wizard gay sex scene.

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:23

       Uh-huh.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle7:23

       And she got, she got the brunt of that.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       (laughs)

   21. ADAndrew Doyle7:25

       You know? It's like, this doesn't... And I hate that sort of, I don't think, you don't need validation by seeing wizards making out. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:32

       Well, unless that's your vision. I mean, if her vision was, I mean, if she wanted some radical sexual aspect to her story.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle7:39

       I don't think it was. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       But if she wanted it... No, it wasn't.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle7:42

       Yeah, if she wants to write wizard porn, that's fine. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       I wouldn't... Yeah. I mean, if that's what you... Look. I mean, it doesn't even necessarily have to be porn. But, um, look, I don't think you should ever try to alter someone's artistic vision-

   27. ADAndrew Doyle7:51

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:52

       ... when someone is a genius like JK Rowling. I mean, think about the stuff that she's created.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle7:56

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Harry Po- look, the Harry Potter series speaks for itself-
5. 11:56 – 16:37

   Identity politics escalations: corporate fandom purity tests and superhero casting demands

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      There was a, a crazy one that I, I'll send it to you, Jamie, 'cause I was sending it to a bunch of people, about them calling for, uh, Captain Marvel to step down. (laughs)

   2. ADAndrew Doyle12:06

      Right. Okay. Why?

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:07

      Because, uh, let me find it for you. Hold on a second.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle12:10

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:10

      'Cause it's, it's so fucking ridiculous. They want Captain Marvel to step down and be replaced by a gay woman of color.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle12:17

      Right.Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      Because, I don't, I mean, is that how the comic book was originally?

   8. ADAndrew Doyle12:23

      Uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      Was the original comic book a gay woman?

   10. ADAndrew Doyle12:24

       Well, so, no, I, I'm not a comic book fan, but I know that this is something that's particularly affected comic books, in terms of Thor-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       Here it is.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle12:31

       ... and Iron Man. Oh, okay, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       "We need Brie Larson to step down from her role to prove she's an ally of social justice and ensure a gay woman of color plays the role. Let Monica, the original female and," all caps, "BLACK Captain Marvel instead of whitewashing characters for the benefit of the straight white men running Disney." First of all, Disney is run by a woman.

   14. ADAndrew Doyle12:54

       Right, okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       This, this should be clarified. I'm almost positive the CEO of entertainment at Disney is a woman.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle13:00

       Is that right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       Find out the... Pretty sure that's true. Yeah.

   18. ADAndrew Doyle13:03

       They've still got Walt on ice though, haven't they? He's still-

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       Yeah, they haven't had-

   20. ADAndrew Doyle13:06

       ... there in the cabinet. Right, okay.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       ... released-

   22. ADAndrew Doyle13:07

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       Is that-

   24. GUGuest13:08

       Bob Iger.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       No, but the, the entertainment CEO of, uh, there's someone who runs the film division. Whitney Cummings is explaining it to me about how ridiculous it is.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle13:19

       But isn't Brie Larson-

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       Who makes, whoever makes the decisions.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle13:21

       Isn't Brie Larson super woke? Like, she's got a reputation of being incredibly woke.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       Not woke enough if you're white.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle13:27

       But she was the one who said that she wanted to ban male journalists from her press junkets and from her-
6. 16:37 – 21:32

   Comedy, censorship, and the ‘punching down’ debate

   1. ADAndrew Doyle16:37

      But then, yeah, so you can't argue with them. I thought maybe satire would be a good approach that, you know, because if they're not prepared to listen to reason, you can mock them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:45

      Right.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle16:45

      Right? I thought that would be a good... But it just makes them really angry. Uh, you know, I've get... I've had so much venom for mocking this, this... But, but of course when you mock the priests, they, they, they get angry.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:56

      Yes.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle16:56

      Yeah, that- that- that's the point.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:57

      Yes. And they don't feel like you have any right to make fun. Which is, for me as a comedian, one of the most offensive things a person could say.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle17:07

      Right. It also makes you wanna do it more, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:08

      Of course. (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle17:09

      (laughs) Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Yeah. It's, that's what it's about.

   11. ADAndrew Doyle17:12

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       We're, we're the, the mockery police.

   13. ADAndrew Doyle17:16

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       We come in and mock when things are fucked up.

   15. ADAndrew Doyle17:18

       But then because they believe in the power structures, what they're saying is you're punching down.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       Down.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle17:23

       Right, you're punching down. But-

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       But arguably with woke people, you're not punching down.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle17:28

       You're not.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       No.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle17:29

       That's always been my argument, you see.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       Yeah.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle17:30

       'Cause for one thing, I think you can punch down if you want.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       Sure.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle17:33

       You know, who's, who gets to say? But I think the, the, the woke people have incredible power.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:38

       And they're bullies.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle17:38

       And they're bullies.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:39

       They, they pile-

   29. ADAndrew Doyle17:40

       They are.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       ... up together.
7. 21:32 – 27:59

   UK vs US speech climates: ‘unsafe’ jokes, self-censorship, and career risk

   1. ADAndrew Doyle21:32

      You know, it's those, it's those younger comics, right? Who, who are coming up and they self-censor because they're worried about what they're gonna say. You know, that's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:40

      Right.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle21:40

      ... that's basically what it is. I mean, I had an argument with a young comic and, uh, and she said to me, "You know, you don't understand because I go up to comics... I have to go up to comics every night after they're set and explain to them why they shouldn't tell these jokes and why they, they..." You know, this was a serious conversation. And I thought, "This isn't for you."

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:56

      And she was a comic?

   5. ADAndrew Doyle21:57

      Yeah. Standup, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:58

      Mm-hmm.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle21:59

      This was a... This was a comic in a group. So I, I used to run this like, uh, workshop for young, young standups, and I can't do it anymore-

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:07

      (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle22:07

      ... because one of them complained... This is serious, right? So like, one of them complained to the boss, the b- the b... It's a very famous theater in London. And, and one of them complained and said that the, one of the jokes I'd tweeted as Titania made her feel unsafe. And then therefore, I was told I couldn't, I couldn't do this course anymore because I'd developed an unsafe environment.

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:26

       Oh, you made them feel unsafe?

   11. ADAndrew Doyle22:27

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:28

       Hm.

   13. ADAndrew Doyle22:28

       By a joke.

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       Dangerous.

   15. ADAndrew Doyle22:30

       That wasn't even mine, it was Titania, it was a character.

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:32

       Must've been a great joke. You're really-

   17. ADAndrew Doyle22:33

       It was probably a fucking great joke, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:34

       So good you made someone feel unsafe?

   19. ADAndrew Doyle22:37

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       Like, they were laughing so hard?

   21. ADAndrew Doyle22:38

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:38

       They're like, "I could die."

   23. ADAndrew Doyle22:40

       Yeah. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:41

       "I could die from laughter."

   25. ADAndrew Doyle22:42

       But that's that conflation of words and violence, isn't it? This idea that, that, that-

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:45

       That is a problem.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle22:46

       I- and I think... What really scares me about that is I think they believe it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:50

       It's disingenuous. Yeah.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle22:51

       Do you think it's disingenuous?

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:52

       It's clearly disingenuous, but it's the, the orthodoxy, right? Like, this is, this is what they're pushing.
8. 27:59 – 41:43

   Politics and the culture war: why ‘woke’ messaging shifts elections

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:59

      Well, it's a shift over the last few years, and it's the reason why Trump is in office.

   2. ADAndrew Doyle28:03

      Yeah. 100% it is. This is, this is why when people tell me, "Oh, the culture war is like a sideshow, it doesn't matter," I'm like, "It wins and loses elections, this stuff." You know? Like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:10

      It's not a sideshow.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle28:11

      It really isn't.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:12

      No.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle28:12

      Like, you know, when, what was it the other day, it was Eliza- Elizabeth Warren saying that she's gonna get a trans stu- pupil, like a 15-year-old to, to veto her, one of her, um, uh, appointees, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:23

      Was it Secretary of Education?

   8. ADAndrew Doyle28:24

      Some- yeah, something like that, something like that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:26

      Something like that.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle28:26

       But it-

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:26

       But it was a nine-year-old.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle28:28

       Oh, was it a nine-year-old? I thought it was like a 15-year-old.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:30

       Uh, I'll go pull, pull that up, see we can find-

   14. ADAndrew Doyle28:31

       I mean, either way, that's not good, right?

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:32

       No, either way it's not good. It's madness.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle28:35

       It's, and most people think that's madness, and most people think it's weird. Like, in the UK, Jeremy Corbyn started announcing his pronouns.

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:42

       Yes, I saw. (laughs)

   18. ADAndrew Doyle28:44

       Let me tell you, I don't know if you know what Jeremy Corbyn looks like. No one's confused about his pronouns.

   19. JRJoe Rogan28:47

       I know.

   20. ADAndrew Doyle28:48

       No one has ever been confused about it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:49

       He's got a fucking beard.

   22. ADAndrew Doyle28:50

       (laughs) He's g- women can have beards? What are you saying?

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:52

       Oh, I didn't know.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle28:53

       They get-

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:53

       They also, uh, can have penises and men can have their period.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle28:56

       Yeah, but Jeremy Corbyn's never identified as a woman as far as I'm aware. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:58

       It's so dumb.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle28:59

       You know, it doesn't fit with also that old school socialist, 'cause he's proper old school lefty socialist.

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:04

       Mm-hmm.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle29:04

       The woke stuff doesn't fit well with those people.
9. 41:43 – 1:00:23

   LGBT acronym politics and internal contradictions

   1. JRJoe Rogan41:43

      And this is what the woke people are doing. Every, no one can be woke enough. I mean, Martina Navratilova-

   2. ADAndrew Doyle41:50

      Yeah, I know.

   3. JRJoe Rogan41:50

      ... they went after her.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle41:51

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan41:52

      F- she's a lesbian.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle41:53

      No, but she-

   7. JRJoe Rogan41:54

      But she's not woke enough-

   8. ADAndrew Doyle41:55

      Wh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan41:55

      ... because she doesn't want trans women to compete in sports and dominate and win world records.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle41:59

       So she shouldn't be part of that community anymore. You see, I've got a real problem with the, the whole acronym thing, the L-

   11. JRJoe Rogan42:03

       Yes.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle42:03

       ... the LGBTQIA+ or whatever it is at the moment, because it keeps getting longer-

   13. JRJoe Rogan42:07

       It keeps going. It's, it's, but I love it.

   14. ADAndrew Doyle42:08

       I, I-

   15. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       I want it to get longer.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle42:09

       What is it now? It's lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersexual, asexual.

   17. JRJoe Rogan42:13

       Yeah. And what's the plus?

   18. ADAndrew Doyle42:14

       And then- the plus is whatever fucker we've forgotten, basically.

   19. JRJoe Rogan42:16

       Aliens. (laughs)

   20. ADAndrew Doyle42:16

       Uh, like, whatever- whatever isn't there, yeah. Um, who the fuck knows? I mean, I- I- I- see that as... For a start, there's massive internal contradictions within that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan42:24

       Yes.

   22. ADAndrew Doyle42:24

       Like, we're seeing this at the moment with sort of lesbian- lesbians versus trans people-

   23. JRJoe Rogan42:27

       Mm-hmm.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle42:27

       ... and gay rights versus trans rights, women's rights versus-

   25. JRJoe Rogan42:30

       Mm-hmm.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle42:30

       You know, that's not a coherent... It's not like those people are all the same.

   27. JRJoe Rogan42:34

       It's a weird gang.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle42:35

       It's- it's a gang that doesn't get on with itself.

   29. JRJoe Rogan42:37

       Right. Exactly. Yeah.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle42:38

       They also, that's why Dave Chappelle's bit about that was really good-
10. 1:00:23 – 1:06:12

    Surveillance and reputational scoring: hiring software and ‘liked tweet’ audits

    1. GUGuest1:00:23

       There's a ... While you guys are talking about this, I found a story that happened last week, um-This was a tweet that I, I've kinda gone through it to verify it a little bit. I don't wanna say it's a 100% accurate.

    2. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:31

       Okay.

    3. GUGuest1:00:32

       But this guy got a job interview and I guess he signed up and they found this on his, on their own. He said he did not give them his information. They sent him 351 pages of every tweet he ever liked that had the word "fuck" in it.

    4. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:44

       Wow.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       He said, "I had to get a background check for my job and it turns out the report is a 300 plus page PDF of every single tweet I've ever liked, liked, with the word 'fuck' in it. Enjoy your dystopian BS."

    6. GUGuest1:00:57

       It's like there's a bunch of tweets showing up.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       Waves.

    8. GUGuest1:00:58

       But I, I looked up the company that does this.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

       Hold on, go back.

    10. GUGuest1:01:01

        Sorry.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

        What does it say? "Update: I came home to a package containing a printout of all 351 pages of it. Obviously, the dystopia cares about wasting paper."

    12. GUGuest1:01:12

        Here's like a for instance of what it looked like.

    13. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:14

        And have they used this to justify not giving him the job? Is that the idea?

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

        I don't know.

    15. GUGuest1:01:18

        I don't know what happened after that.

    16. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:19

        Right. Okay. Okay.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

        He, he liked this tweet, "Merry Christmas to the toddler I saw running across Trader Joe's with a giant bottle of peppermint vodka and Mom running after him like, 'No, no, no, no, no, no, no.' Only."

    18. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:31

        So flagged type, bad. Flagged reason, alcohol.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

        Yeah.

    20. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:35

        Post type, liked.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

        Yeah. So they, they changed what he was saying.

    22. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:42

        Right.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        He's, he's making a joke about a toddler that he saw running across Trader Joe's with a giant bottle of peppermint vodka that it had taken from its mom, and the mom was like, "No, no, no, no. Give me that, give me that, give me that." So they flagged it because the- there was alcohol in it. The baby had a bottle of alcohol. There's nothing offensive about that whatsoever.

    24. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:03

        I don't-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

        It's-

    26. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:03

        I actually don't understand why that would be an issue.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:05

        Because they want you to be scared as fuck. They wanna be able to control your thinking and they don't want you to ever do anything that could c- come back to hurt the company in any way and, and, and mess with their bottom line. I mean, that is crazy.

    28. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:17

        But even liking a tweet-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

        Yeah, like-

    30. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:19

        Not, not just writing the tweet, but liking.

Episode duration: 2:33:01