Joe Rogan Experience #1423 - Andrew Doyle

1. 0:00 – 1:41

   Revealing Andrew Doyle behind ‘Titania McGrath’ and how the satire works

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Three, two, one. This is your unveiling-

   2. ADAndrew Doyle0:04

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      ... because now people know.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle0:06

      That people know, yep. That's it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      That, first of all, Titiana.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle0:10

      So, this is the- I should've chosen a, an easier name. Like, uh, no one can get... it's Titania.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Titania?

   8. ADAndrew Doyle0:14

      Because she's named after the queen of the fairies in Midsummer Night's Dream.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Oh.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle0:17

       But-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Tell everybody your real name.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle0:18

       ... my real name's Andrew Doyle.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Do you have an issue with people now knowing-

   14. ADAndrew Doyle0:22

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       ... that, uh, Tatiana or Tit- Titania? Titania? Doesn't-

   16. ADAndrew Doyle0:27

       Titania's... yeah, she totally eclipsed me. I don't, like, I don't have-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       (laughs)

   18. ADAndrew Doyle0:31

       I'm basically not alive anymore. It's all about her, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Oh! Well-

   20. ADAndrew Doyle0:35

       It-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       ... I, I can't remember how I found out about you on Twitter, but just laughing really hard at something that you wrote. That was so close. You, you do such a good job of, like, blurring the line between outrageously woke and satire.

   22. ADAndrew Doyle0:50

       Yeah, it's that thing of trying to-

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       There you are.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle0:52

       ... try... (sighs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Who's the girl?

   26. ADAndrew Doyle0:54

       Trying to tr- oh, there! Okay. Yeah, so the girl is a composite of four different women-

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Well, that's good.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle0:59

       ... put together, because I was worried about, you know, I don't wanna get sued or anything like that.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Oh, for sure, yeah. So it's not-

   30. ADAndrew Doyle1:02

       Um-
2. 1:41 – 3:31

   Why people keep believing Titania is real—and the Twitter outrage machine

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:41

      Well, she's so big now. You have 420,000 followers.

   2. ADAndrew Doyle1:45

      It's weird, 'cause it happened really quickly. I, I, I guess it's because there's a whole cohort of people out there who are just sick of this stuff, and they-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:52

      Oh, yes.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle1:52

      ... you know, and I d- well, it's partly that, but also partly 'cause people still fall for her all the time. People constantly think it's real, you know?

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:59

      Oh! All the time.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle2:00

      All the time.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:00

      When I retweet you, one of my favorite things to do-

   8. ADAndrew Doyle2:03

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      ... is read people getting upset at you.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle2:05

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:06

       They're like, "That is ridiculous! You think that? That's why Trump was winning and..." grrr.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle2:10

       Right. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       Grrr.

   14. ADAndrew Doyle2:12

       Never ceases to amaze me how angry people get on Twitter with, with s- you know, even legitimate, with legitimate causes. It's like... but I watch that and I think, it's fun because I can satirize the left and the, the sort of, the more sort of liberal side of things through her. But then I can argue with the, the right-wing Trump supporters and stuff, and I can mock them as well. Like, so you get to have a go at the extremes.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       Yes.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle2:33

       You know what I mean? And-

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       Yeah.

   18. ADAndrew Doyle2:34

       ... I, I, I'm so shocked that people s- still think she's real, though. Like, even after all this time.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       Oh, th- it's not shocking. You're close enough.

   20. ADAndrew Doyle2:41

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       There's plenty of people, and I'll point you to a few of them-

   22. ADAndrew Doyle2:43

       Okay.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:43

       ... that I follow. I, I follow some people where I just bookmark them so they don't, they don't know that I follow them.

   24. ADAndrew Doyle2:48

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       And just some of them are so goddamn fucking crazy.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle2:53

       And yet, I keep getting told this is like a straw man. These people don't really exist. You're having a go.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Oh, they exist.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle2:59

       But they, they do. I even once did a... do you remember there was a tweet by... is it, is it Rosanna Arquette who's really, really woke? Rosanna Arquette, the actress.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       I think so.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle3:05

       So, she did a tweet about how ashamed she was of being white and then-
3. 3:31 – 6:24

   ‘Wokeness’ framed as cult/religion: cancel culture, purity tests, and redemption-free morality

   1. ADAndrew Doyle3:31

      Like, like, f- frighteningly so, to, to a point that it's, it's a cult-like behavior. It's like, it's, it's, it's... like, I think the, the basic principles of, you know, standing up against racism, sexism, homophobia, all that stuff, is great.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Yes.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle3:46

      Uh, I think the, the, the woke movement isn't that. It's a kind of weird cultish, uh, pseudo-religious thing that is beyond that. So that you're no longer allowed to make mistakes. You can't be redeemed. There's no-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:58

      Right.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle3:58

      ... there's no r- it's a, it's, it's, it's got all those hallmarks.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Yes.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle4:01

      You know? It's like when the early Christians used to burn people out of love, you know? It's that-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:05

      (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle4:05

      It's that thing. And that's why we get this kind of cancel culture stuff. And I guess that's why I wanna... (sighs) And maybe that's why it's popular, 'cause people are sick of, uh, treading around on eggshells, worried about being misinterpreted or even worried about fucking up and making a mistake. I mean, what's wrong with saying something that's... every now and then, maybe you do say the wrong thing, and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Well-

   11. ADAndrew Doyle4:23

       ... um-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       ... it should be fine if you're a human being, but part of it is also that things are written down, right?

   13. ADAndrew Doyle4:28

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       And then when things are written down, you can see them over and over again. If you made a mistake and just said something-

   15. ADAndrew Doyle4:33

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       ... in normal human conversation, which is how we're supposed to communicate and how we normally communicate-

   17. ADAndrew Doyle4:37

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:38

       ... it just comes and goes.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle4:39

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:39

       You know? But when it's written down, then it becomes something different.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle4:44

       But it's more than that, isn't it? Because it's, it... I'll give you an example. So there was a guy who was the editor of a, uh, cookery magazine in the UK. And a vegan freelance journalist emailed him saying, "I'd love to do a thing about vegans." And he replied and made some joke about, "Yeah, you can do something about how we all force-feed them meat and we'll make them eat each other and all..." Stupid, flippant thing.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:02

       Right.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle5:02

       Rather than saying, "I was really offended by that. Can we talk about it? I don't think that's appropriate for you to email a freelance journalist," she screenshot the thing, put it on Twitter, made a thing of it, and he had to step down. So I think-

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       Wow.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle5:14

       ... that's the difference, is w- whereas, like, saying to someone, "Look..." Calling out a mistake or calling someone out for something they've done that you perceive to be bad, that's, uh, that's all well and good. But when you're using it to advertise how virtuous you are-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle5:27

       ... and, and how you, you're able to take someone down for the mistake that they made, that troubles me. 'Cause then it's no longer about, really about the issue.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       Well, I think what we're dealing with when it, when, when you're talking about woke culture, and I love that you made this comparison to radical religion, 'cause I think they're the same patterns.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle5:45

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       I think human beings have patterns that they follow, and you could say that you're not religious, but you follow these extremely rigid ideologies that don't allow for any variation whatsoever. You-
4. 6:24 – 11:56

   Art under ideological enforcement: JK Rowling, Tarantino, and representation checklists

   1. ADAndrew Doyle6:24

      Oh, yeah. And well, it happened with JK Rowling, didn't it?

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Yes.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle6:26

      It happened with JK Rowling because she defended... It was a British case, it was the woman who, um, was fired from her job because she posted some tweets saying that she didn't believe that sex was a mutable characteristic. She said there are men and women and you can't change... Now, that's her opinion and she's entitled to have it. Uh, but the, the judge in the UK ruled that no, it's, that's not a legitimate opinion to hold and you can be fired for that. Right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      (sighs)

   5. ADAndrew Doyle6:48

      So JK Rowling simply said, "No, that's not fair. That's, it's her opinion." And they went for her.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      Yeah.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle6:54

      Even though she's like, she's so woke, 'cause she keeps retrospectively deciding that her characters are gay and-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:59

      (laughs)

   9. ADAndrew Doyle6:59

      ... all sort of stuff like that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       Yes.

   11. ADAndrew Doyle7:01

       And, you know, D-Dumbledore's gay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Yes.

   13. ADAndrew Doyle7:03

       And d- and she got, she got-

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       They gone after her.

   15. ADAndrew Doyle7:06

       They went after her before that as well, 'cause in the Fantastic Beasts sequel with Dumbledore as a young man, uh, there's not much overt homosexuality. And so the LGBTQ community was saying, "Why isn't it more..." I mean, what do they want? Like, double penetration? What do they want with that?

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       Yes.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle7:20

       Like, they, they want a full-on wizard gay sex scene.

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:23

       Uh-huh.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle7:23

       And she got, she got the brunt of that.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       (laughs)

   21. ADAndrew Doyle7:25

       You know? It's like, this doesn't... And I hate that sort of, I don't think, you don't need validation by seeing wizards making out. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:32

       Well, unless that's your vision. I mean, if her vision was, I mean, if she wanted some radical sexual aspect to her story.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle7:39

       I don't think it was. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       But if she wanted it... No, it wasn't.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle7:42

       Yeah, if she wants to write wizard porn, that's fine. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       I wouldn't... Yeah. I mean, if that's what you... Look. I mean, it doesn't even necessarily have to be porn. But, um, look, I don't think you should ever try to alter someone's artistic vision-

   27. ADAndrew Doyle7:51

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:52

       ... when someone is a genius like JK Rowling. I mean, think about the stuff that she's created.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle7:56

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Harry Po- look, the Harry Potter series speaks for itself-
5. 11:56 – 16:57

   Corporate/Disney activism and purity escalation: Captain Marvel and ‘allyship’ demands

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      There was a, a crazy one that I, I'll send it to you, Jamie, 'cause I was sending it to a bunch of people, about them calling for, uh, Captain Marvel to step down. (laughs)

   2. ADAndrew Doyle12:06

      Right. Okay. Why?

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:07

      Because, uh, let me find it for you. Hold on a second.

   4. ADAndrew Doyle12:10

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:10

      'Cause it's, it's so fucking ridiculous. They want Captain Marvel to step down and be replaced by a gay woman of color.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle12:17

      Right.Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      Because, I don't, I mean, is that how the comic book was originally?

   8. ADAndrew Doyle12:23

      Uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      Was the original comic book a gay woman?

   10. ADAndrew Doyle12:24

       Well, so, no, I, I'm not a comic book fan, but I know that this is something that's particularly affected comic books, in terms of Thor-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       Here it is.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle12:31

       ... and Iron Man. Oh, okay, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       "We need Brie Larson to step down from her role to prove she's an ally of social justice and ensure a gay woman of color plays the role. Let Monica, the original female and," all caps, "BLACK Captain Marvel instead of whitewashing characters for the benefit of the straight white men running Disney." First of all, Disney is run by a woman.

   14. ADAndrew Doyle12:54

       Right, okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       This, this should be clarified. I'm almost positive the CEO of entertainment at Disney is a woman.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle13:00

       Is that right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       Find out the... Pretty sure that's true. Yeah.

   18. ADAndrew Doyle13:03

       They've still got Walt on ice though, haven't they? He's still-

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       Yeah, they haven't had-

   20. ADAndrew Doyle13:06

       ... there in the cabinet. Right, okay.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       ... released-

   22. ADAndrew Doyle13:07

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       Is that-

   24. GUGuest13:08

       Bob Iger.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       No, but the, the entertainment CEO of, uh, there's someone who runs the film division. Whitney Cummings is explaining it to me about how ridiculous it is.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle13:19

       But isn't Brie Larson-

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       Who makes, whoever makes the decisions.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle13:21

       Isn't Brie Larson super woke? Like, she's got a reputation of being incredibly woke.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       Not woke enough if you're white.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle13:27

       But she was the one who said that she wanted to ban male journalists from her press junkets and from her-
6. 16:57 – 25:41

   Comedy vs. ‘punching down’: self-censorship, club culture, and platform gatekeeping

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:57

      Yes. And they don't feel like you have any right to make fun. Which is, for me as a comedian, one of the most offensive things a person could say.

   2. ADAndrew Doyle17:07

      Right. It also makes you wanna do it more, right?

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:08

      Of course. (laughs)

   4. ADAndrew Doyle17:09

      (laughs) Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:10

      Yeah. It's, that's what it's about.

   6. ADAndrew Doyle17:12

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:12

      We're, we're the, the mockery police.

   8. ADAndrew Doyle17:16

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:16

      We come in and mock when things are fucked up.

   10. ADAndrew Doyle17:18

       But then because they believe in the power structures, what they're saying is you're punching down.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       Down.

   12. ADAndrew Doyle17:23

       Right, you're punching down. But-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       But arguably with woke people, you're not punching down.

   14. ADAndrew Doyle17:28

       You're not.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       No.

   16. ADAndrew Doyle17:29

       That's always been my argument, you see.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       Yeah.

   18. ADAndrew Doyle17:30

       'Cause for one thing, I think you can punch down if you want.

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       Sure.

   20. ADAndrew Doyle17:33

       You know, who's, who gets to say? But I think the, the, the woke people have incredible power.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:38

       And they're bullies.

   22. ADAndrew Doyle17:38

       And they're bullies.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:39

       They, they pile-

   24. ADAndrew Doyle17:40

       They are.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       ... up together.

   26. ADAndrew Doyle17:41

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       They go after you. They'll do it for days on end and attack your Twitter and attack you and write articles about you. I've experienced it.

   28. ADAndrew Doyle17:47

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:47

       But it's, you know, you're just trea- preaching to the choir.

   30. ADAndrew Doyle17:51

       Yeah.
7. 25:41 – 41:59

   From social media to institutions: academia’s role, elections, and ‘make it about class again’

   1. ADAndrew Doyle25:41

      Um, and, and particularly when those same people have, uh, such power in the major institutions, right? You know, I've always said, the w- the, the woke group, people are, are the minority. You know, most people are sick of it, most people are fucked off with it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:54

      Yeah.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle25:55

      But they seem to occupy all these major, uh, roles in television, in the arts, in media, in journalism, in the law, you know, and, and therefore they have disproportionate clout.

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:06

      Yes.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle26:06

      S-

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:06

      Academia's a big one.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle26:07

      Academia's ma- that's where the problem started, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:10

      Right, and then you convert children to think that way.

   9. ADAndrew Doyle26:13

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:13

       You get an impressionable 17-year-old who's a freshman in-

   11. ADAndrew Doyle26:16

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:16

       ... college, and they fi- find this, and it resonates with them, and also they can develop social clout by adhering to this religion the same way a, a, a radical, you know, fill in the blank with whatever Christian, whatever-

   13. ADAndrew Doyle26:29

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:29

       ... whatever sect of religion you'd like to compare it to. It's very similar. You-

   15. ADAndrew Doyle26:35

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:35

       ... the more pious you are, the more adherent you are to the dogma, to this rigid ideology, the more clout you get.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle26:43

       And, and, and worse than that in universities, because you won't pass the course if you-

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:46

       Right.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle26:46

       ... you know, you, it, and what's interesting is it's not a kind of, um, underhand thing on the part of the a- of the scholars who are now activists, right? They are open about this.

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:56

       Yes.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle26:56

       They say quite explicitly, you know, "We, we, we are activists as well as scholars."

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:00

       Yeah.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle27:00

       Which means they're pushing a political agenda, which of course, it didn't used to be that. The aca- academe used to be about objectivity and presenting different ideas and, and, and getting to the truth, but they already know the truth.

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:09

       Yes.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle27:10

       And they're gonna, they're gonna ensure that you wouldn't even get on the course if you didn't sort of basically subscribe.

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:16

       But again, it's the same sort of pattern that you see in dictators.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle27:18

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:19

       They're a dictator in terms of intellectual pursuits.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle27:23

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:23

       They're dictating to these children how you must think and behave. And they're, because of their position of power, because of their education, their grasp of the English language, the fact that they speak so eloquently-
8. 41:59 – 48:54

   LGBT acronym politics and media absurdities: internal contradictions and ‘gay press’ headlines

   1. ADAndrew Doyle41:59

      So she shouldn't be part of that community anymore. You see, I've got a real problem with the, the whole acronym thing, the L-

   2. JRJoe Rogan42:03

      Yes.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle42:03

      ... the LGBTQIA+ or whatever it is at the moment, because it keeps getting longer-

   4. JRJoe Rogan42:07

      It keeps going. It's, it's, but I love it.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle42:08

      I, I-

   6. JRJoe Rogan42:08

      I want it to get longer.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle42:09

      What is it now? It's lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersexual, asexual.

   8. JRJoe Rogan42:13

      Yeah. And what's the plus?

   9. ADAndrew Doyle42:14

      And then- the plus is whatever fucker we've forgotten, basically.

   10. JRJoe Rogan42:16

       Aliens. (laughs)

   11. ADAndrew Doyle42:16

       Uh, like, whatever- whatever isn't there, yeah. Um, who the fuck knows? I mean, I- I- I- see that as... For a start, there's massive internal contradictions within that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan42:24

       Yes.

   13. ADAndrew Doyle42:24

       Like, we're seeing this at the moment with sort of lesbian- lesbians versus trans people-

   14. JRJoe Rogan42:27

       Mm-hmm.

   15. ADAndrew Doyle42:27

       ... and gay rights versus trans rights, women's rights versus-

   16. JRJoe Rogan42:30

       Mm-hmm.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle42:30

       You know, that's not a coherent... It's not like those people are all the same.

   18. JRJoe Rogan42:34

       It's a weird gang.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle42:35

       It's- it's a gang that doesn't get on with itself.

   20. JRJoe Rogan42:37

       Right. Exactly. Yeah.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle42:38

       They also, that's why Dave Chappelle's bit about that was really good-

   22. JRJoe Rogan42:40

       Yeah.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle42:40

       ... with the- with the sort of the T's in the back and the L's in the front-

   24. JRJoe Rogan42:42

       Mm-hmm.

   25. ADAndrew Doyle42:42

       ... and stuff. It's- it's, they don't get on with each other. And then- and then if you're not ideologically pl- pure, they'll cast you out. They'll even say you're not gay, like with Peter Thiel.

   26. JRJoe Rogan42:50

       Yes.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle42:50

       You know, when- when he w- said at the Republican convention that he was supporting the Repub- Trump.

   28. JRJoe Rogan42:54

       Yes.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle42:54

       And- and The Advocate, the gay magazine, The Advocate, was saying, "Well, he may sleep with men-"

   30. JRJoe Rogan43:00

       (laughs)
9. 48:54 – 57:50

   Speech, deplatforming, and the UK’s ‘non-crime hate incidents’ enforcement

   1. ADAndrew Doyle48:54

      This is a s- it's a serious problem that I think is gonna get worse here very quickly, right? Because up until now, like I've always thought you guys are in a really great position. You've got your First Amendment, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan49:03

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ADAndrew Doyle49:03

      So, so people will always be able to say whatever they want in this country, you know? But you're seeing the cracks in that ideal very, very clearly. And some people are calling for hate speech laws, so, so that the First Amendment doesn't apply to what they call hate speech, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan49:15

      Right.

   5. ADAndrew Doyle49:15

      And that would be the, uh ... Rather than just ... I mean, yeah, you've got people setting off fire alarms, literally stopping people from speaking-

   6. JRJoe Rogan49:21

      Right.

   7. ADAndrew Doyle49:21

      ... that way. But I think there are people who are moving towards legislating against certain forms of speech.

   8. JRJoe Rogan49:26

      Well, it's very important that this be taught and that people understand that the answer to bad speech is good speech.

   9. ADAndrew Doyle49:34

      Yeah. Just more of it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan49:36

       That's always been the answer. To get two people that have opposing ideas-

   11. ADAndrew Doyle49:40

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan49:40

       ... and have them talk, and have one person who has the better ideas, who's more articulate and understands it, and understands the consequences of these evil ideas, and lays it out so that everybody watching can go, "Oh."

   13. ADAndrew Doyle49:54

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan49:54

       "Okay, I see. Now I learned." But as soon as you stop it ... You know, if they say, "We want Ben Shapiro to debate our person-"

   15. ADAndrew Doyle50:03

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan50:03

       "... and let's all go together," that's great.

   17. ADAndrew Doyle50:06

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan50:06

       Do that, do that. That's how to do it.

   19. ADAndrew Doyle50:08

       So why would you want ... If you claim to be opposed to all these horrible ideas, why would you want those ideas to be left unchallenged?

   20. JRJoe Rogan50:15

       Mm-hmm.

   21. ADAndrew Doyle50:15

       That doesn't make sense to me.

   22. JRJoe Rogan50:16

       Right. Yeah.

   23. ADAndrew Doyle50:16

       What, what you w- what you should ... You should be celebrating the idea that these people are gonna get a platform and be debated and be, and, and be, uh, repudiated.

   24. JRJoe Rogan50:23

       But they're worried that that person's gonna indoctrinate someone, and they think that they're absolutely right and that person's absolutely wrong. And this is the ar- the argument for de-platforming people from Twitter and YouTube and all these different social media platforms. This is-

   25. ADAndrew Doyle50:34

       But people aren't as stupid as that. They're n-

   26. JRJoe Rogan50:36

       A lot of them are.

   27. ADAndrew Doyle50:37

       But do you think s- ... Like, I don't believe that someone's gonna hear someone, uh, making a fascist speech and they suddenly become fascist by osmosis.

   28. JRJoe Rogan50:44

       Let me pause you there.

   29. ADAndrew Doyle50:45

       Okay.

   30. JRJoe Rogan50:46

       How do, how does someone join the Nazi Party?
10. 57:50 – 1:00:23

    Comedy prosecuted: Count Dankula’s ‘Nazi pug’ case and the subjectivity of ‘grossly offensive’

    1. ADAndrew Doyle57:50

       The famous one in the UK at the moment is the Count Dankula case. Um, I think he's the Nazi pug case.

    2. JRJoe Rogan57:54

       Yes, I do know that one, yeah.

    3. ADAndrew Doyle57:56

       And, um, and because I, I stood up-

    4. JRJoe Rogan57:58

       Explain it to people that don't know that story, 'cause it's-

    5. ADAndrew Doyle57:59

       So there's a g- a guy called Count Dankula. His real name is Marcus Meakin, and he's a YouTuber, and he created ... His dog, sorry, his girlfriend's dog is this cute little pug dog, right? And his girlfriend was always, always going on about how adorable the dog was. So he ma- ... He trained the dog to jump about enthusiastically whenever it heard the phrase, "Gas the Jews." And he trained it to do a little Nazi salute whenever it heard, "Sieg Heil," right? Now, those phrases out of that context are unpleasant. You can see why someone would be offended by that, right? But the joke was that this cute little dog is doing, is behaving this vicious ... In fact, the joke is predicated on the idea that there's nothing worse than a Nazi.

    6. JRJoe Rogan58:37

       Well, also-

    7. ADAndrew Doyle58:38

       Right?

    8. JRJoe Rogan58:38

       ... the joke is predicated on the fact that we all know the dog has no idea what it's doing.

    9. ADAndrew Doyle58:42

       Quite. Exactly, yeah. So that's what-

    10. JRJoe Rogan58:44

        There it is.

    11. ADAndrew Doyle58:44

        That's what, that's him doing the Sieg Heil there. So, bu- ... That's Buddha, the dog.

    12. JRJoe Rogan58:47

        What a cutie.

    13. ADAndrew Doyle58:48

        Now, now, look, I accept that people can be offe- ... Like, I, you know, I might be offended by, I'm offended by all sorts of things, and that's fine. But note, three million people saw that video before YouTube took it down, you know? And, um, three million people, not one complaint. No one complained. The police actually went to the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities and said, "Do you find this offensive?" And understandably, they said, "Yes," and the police said, "Great. Now we can prosecute this guy." Two-year investigation, uh, found guilty in a court of law, um, ultimately fined 800 pounds. That was what happened. But he's got a criminal record now for ... Whatever you think about the joke, right, it's, it's a, it is clearly meant to be funny. What I mean-

    14. JRJoe Rogan59:27

        Yes.

    15. ADAndrew Doyle59:27

        And not only that, Cyber Crime Intelligence Unit investigated all of his tweets, emails, his entire background to find any remote connection to a fascist group or a far-right group. Nothing, they found nothing. So there's no evidence. So basically, they, they prosecu- ... In the UK, we now have someone who has been prosecuted because the judge believes that he knows what's secretly going on, what his secret intention is. And the, the actual phrasing of the law that, under which he was prosecuted is that it is deemed grossly offensive, which is a very subjective idea. Something that is grossly offensive.

    16. JRJoe Rogan59:57

        Well, particularly when the fact that you have 3000 different view, or three million different views-

    17. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:04

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:04

        ... and no complaints?

    19. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:05

        No complaints. Right? This-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

        Mm-hmm. That's, that's crazy.

    21. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:09

        And I know the guy, 'cause I, I, uh, I, I defended him at the time, and then, of course, people said that I'm a Nazi apologist 'cause I ... You know. That's wh- ... Which is utterly, utterly ludicrous. But I know the guy now. He's n- ... He's a nice guy. He's not at all-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:21

        I've seen him interviewed.

    23. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:22

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

        What's up, Jamie?

11. 1:00:23 – 1:35:11

    Dystopian workplace surveillance: background-check software scanning your likes

    1. GUGuest1:00:23

       There's a ... While you guys are talking about this, I found a story that happened last week, um-This was a tweet that I, I've kinda gone through it to verify it a little bit. I don't wanna say it's a 100% accurate.

    2. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:31

       Okay.

    3. GUGuest1:00:32

       But this guy got a job interview and I guess he signed up and they found this on his, on their own. He said he did not give them his information. They sent him 351 pages of every tweet he ever liked that had the word "fuck" in it.

    4. ADAndrew Doyle1:00:44

       Wow.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       He said, "I had to get a background check for my job and it turns out the report is a 300 plus page PDF of every single tweet I've ever liked, liked, with the word 'fuck' in it. Enjoy your dystopian BS."

    6. GUGuest1:00:57

       It's like there's a bunch of tweets showing up.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       Waves.

    8. GUGuest1:00:58

       But I, I looked up the company that does this.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

       Hold on, go back.

    10. GUGuest1:01:01

        Sorry.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

        What does it say? "Update: I came home to a package containing a printout of all 351 pages of it. Obviously, the dystopia cares about wasting paper."

    12. GUGuest1:01:12

        Here's like a for instance of what it looked like.

    13. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:14

        And have they used this to justify not giving him the job? Is that the idea?

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

        I don't know.

    15. GUGuest1:01:18

        I don't know what happened after that.

    16. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:19

        Right. Okay. Okay.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

        He, he liked this tweet, "Merry Christmas to the toddler I saw running across Trader Joe's with a giant bottle of peppermint vodka and Mom running after him like, 'No, no, no, no, no, no, no.' Only."

    18. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:31

        So flagged type, bad. Flagged reason, alcohol.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

        Yeah.

    20. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:35

        Post type, liked.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

        Yeah. So they, they changed what he was saying.

    22. ADAndrew Doyle1:01:42

        Right.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        He's, he's making a joke about a toddler that he saw running across Trader Joe's with a giant bottle of peppermint vodka that it had taken from its mom, and the mom was like, "No, no, no, no. Give me that, give me that, give me that." So they flagged it because the- there was alcohol in it. The baby had a bottle of alcohol. There's nothing offensive about that whatsoever.

    24. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:03

        I don't-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

        It's-

    26. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:03

        I actually don't understand why that would be an issue.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:05

        Because they want you to be scared as fuck. They wanna be able to control your thinking and they don't want you to ever do anything that could c- come back to hurt the company in any way and, and, and mess with their bottom line. I mean, that is crazy.

    28. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:17

        But even liking a tweet-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

        Yeah, like-

    30. ADAndrew Doyle1:02:19

        Not, not just writing the tweet, but liking.

Episode duration: 2:33:01