Joe Rogan Experience #1427 - Melissa Chen

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   What's up, Melissa? How…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      What's up, Melissa? How are you?

   2. MCMelissa Chen0:02

      Hello, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      We were just talking about caning and hanging in Singapore.

   4. MCMelissa Chen0:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Hanging now, is that the new one?

   6. MCMelissa Chen0:08

      No, it's always been-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      That's how they always do it?

   8. MCMelissa Chen0:09

      I mean, caning is one of the forms of capital punishment, but they, they still, they actually hang for drugs.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      What is Singapore like? I've never been. It seems like a strange place, 'cause it's relatively wealthy, right?

   10. MCMelissa Chen0:22

       Yes, very much so.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       And upscale and very nice, but also ruthless.

   12. MCMelissa Chen0:27

       But you know what happened in, like, my generation? I've witnessed it go from third world to first world in my lifetime.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Really?

   14. MCMelissa Chen0:33

       Yeah, yeah. So it's one of those success stories of nation building. Um, but it's, it's kind of like, you know those snow globes, the perfect snow globes-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah.

   16. MCMelissa Chen0:43

       ... with the, yeah, when you, like, turn it over and, like, everything kind of sprinkles? That's what it feels like living in Singapore. For me, at least. I, I had to get out. It's just, it's a bit sterile. It's perfect, but it's too perfect. It's almost like, there's a, somebody called it once Disneyland with the death penalty.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       (laughs)

   18. MCMelissa Chen0:57

       Which is a pretty good description.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       And you get the death penalty for things like drugs, right?

   20. MCMelissa Chen1:01

       Just possession past, like, maybe 25 grams or 25 milligrams or something, marijuana trafficking.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       So if you have an ounce of marijuana, how many grams is in an ounce?

   22. MCMelissa Chen1:11

       What's the conversion? I don't know. I, I haven't converted to-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       20?

   24. MCMelissa Chen1:15

       Your system.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       28. 28 grams in an ounce? Yeah, 28. So, like, an, an ounce is a good amount of weed, but two ounces of weed, you're dead?

   26. MCMelissa Chen1:22

       Yep.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Oof.

   28. MCMelissa Chen1:24

       Yeah. By hanging.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Oof.

   30. MCMelissa Chen1:26

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm. …

   1. MCMelissa Chen15:00

      to, to kind of break out of their, of their mindset, of, of their indoctrination?

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      Mm.

   3. MCMelissa Chen15:04

      You know? And it's, it's not, we're, we're not saying like, this is a top-down thing, like, "You have to read this." It's that, I just want to live in a world where being ignorant is a choice for everyone-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      Mm.

   5. MCMelissa Chen15:14

      ... 'cause, 'cause it's a choice for us, like let's say like, you know, right now you're like dumb and just, just like basically you spend your nights watching The Bachelor or like, you know, whatever it is (laughs) , it's like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:24

      I know some people.

   7. MCMelissa Chen15:25

      ... uh, I do too.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:26

      (laughs)

   9. MCMelissa Chen15:26

      I do too. But, uh, I know, I'm judging, but I know.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Oh, it's... Listen, it's, they, they also are into interesting things, but I know some people who do consume mindless nonsense. My friend Cam-

   11. MCMelissa Chen15:36

       But exclusively-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       ... he watches The Bachelorette. He does. I'm calling you out, Cam Hanes.

   13. MCMelissa Chen15:40

       You're shaming him? (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Yeah. You know, you know you watch that shit, bro.

   15. MCMelissa Chen15:43

       Which one? The female one? Bachelorette or the-

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       He watches both of them. (laughs)

   17. MCMelissa Chen15:46

       Oh God. I only know they're still going on because I'm at the checkout line in the-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Yeah, it's those magazines.

   19. MCMelissa Chen15:51

       ... in the supermarket line. I'm like, "Wha- why is that there?" Like...

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       It's so strange that people are even interested in that.

   21. MCMelissa Chen15:56

       I know. I know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       It's a, it's a weird thing, very weird thing. Um, yes, that ignorance would be a choice would be nice if-

   23. MCMelissa Chen16:05

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Yeah. So, so what you're saying is that these part- parts of the world, one of the problems of getting them to shift their perception of the world is that they're not exposed to all the great works, they're not exposed to the-

   25. MCMelissa Chen16:18

       Different ideas.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       ... different ideas and different-

   27. MCMelissa Chen16:20

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       ... different debates.

   29. MCMelissa Chen16:21

       And they have a monoculture.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. MCMelissa Chen30:00

      economic warfare, um, which is one of the, the issues that Trump has really pushed back on. It's the China trade issue.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MCMelissa Chen30:08

      Um...

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      And he's been criticized by, about that. Do you think he's correct?

   5. MCMelissa Chen30:13

      On China?

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:14

      Yes.

   7. MCMelissa Chen30:14

      On China, yes. I do think he's correct. He's been pushed back on. It's interesting because (smacks lips) I think the Democrats were a lot more, you know, protectionist when it came to trade, right? The r- the Republicans and the Libertarians are always like, "Free trade, free trade," everything, like, you know, "Let's globalize the world," uh, it was the whole Thomas Friedman position when he wrote about it in Lexus and the Olive Tree, that if we globalize the world, that economic- that you're ec- you lift a lot of people out of poverty, your, your economic pie grows, but your, uh, politics shrink. That was the idea, right? No two countries that have McDonald's would fight a war or something like that. That was his theory.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      Hmm.

   9. MCMelissa Chen30:51

      Um, and in the case of, uh, China, obviously that, uh, didn't happen, right? Like the part about the politics changing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       Right.

   11. MCMelissa Chen31:00

       There was this quote a- by a Tiananmen pro- protestor. He said, "If the free world doesn't change China, China will change the free world."

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       Whoa.

   13. MCMelissa Chen31:09

       And if you think about what happened with the NBA, um, you know, with the whole Daryl More tweet and-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       Yeah, explain that, because that was shocking to me, 'cause the way they were capitulating to China, I was, you know, I was a little stunned.

   15. MCMelissa Chen31:22

       Me too.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       'Cause it was so open.

   17. MCMelissa Chen31:23

       Yeah, and-

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       Can you explain what happened?

   19. MCMelissa Chen31:26

       So Daryl More, who is the GM of the Houston Rockets, he tweeted out, um, basically a, a little picture that, that showed that he supported the Hong Kong protestors. And the Hong Kong protestors have been at it since July of last year, 2019. Um, they w- have been protesting the incursion of, of Chinese control into their supposedly autonomous region. China promised them that there would be, um, two systems, one country, two systems, after the handover in 1997 from the British to, to, to China. Um, they've slowly kind of eroded that, um, in w- in many ways. And their freedoms have been kind of, you know, diminishing over time. The straw, the straw that broke the camel's back was actually this policy that they passed, this law they passed that said that anyone can be extradited to China for trials basically. It was after a case that happened, a criminal case. And the Hong Kong people knew that h- this law, if it goes in effect, basically gives the Chinese government legal right to disappear or kidnap anyone and bring them for trial in some sort of kangaroo c- or show trial in, in, in China and that has happened. So booksellers, it's always the booksellers, in Hong Kong have been kidnapped because they were publishing these like insider accounts, like dirty secrets of the, you know, the CCP, whenever there was a leak, 'cause the, the Chinese Communist Party is huge. The Politburo is huge. And so there was a bookseller called Causeway Books and they were publishing all these like accounts from within the, the Chinese Communist Party and the owner of that bookshop one day just disappeared. And he ended up in China, um, it was basically a forced kidnapping and he, he was released, I think he was, you know, he, he did his jail time and now he's setting up another booksh- bookshop in Taiwan. Um, but, but that law basically would just have allowed China to do that legally this time. So the Hong Kong youth were up in arms. They, you know, they, they were tired of all their, the ways that their way of life had changed since the British handed, handed it over, and al- you know, in, in a way they were kind of pining for the good old times, the good old times when they were under colonial, you know, an English colonial master, which was one of those like poof moment for anyone on the left.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:43

       Mm.

   21. MCMelissa Chen33:45

       Um, (smacks lips) and so Daryl More tweeted this out and of course you know how big the, the China market is for the NBA, right? Like all these players have contracts with them. In fact the Houston Rockets had a lot of contracts with the Chinese CCTV for broadcasts, um, they also had like merchandising opportunities, sneakers that were made there. And, um, (smacks lips) that caused a huge, huge outcry in China. They were just like, "Oh, he's disrespecting us," um, and they were able to force him to basically make a groveling tweet that said, "Oh, I'm sorry for hurting the feelings of the Chinese people." And then like all the other, some NBA players actually came out and, and, you know, kind of took the side of the, of the Chinese government, like, "Oh wait, who are we to-"

   22. JRJoe Rogan34:32

       Yeah.

   23. MCMelissa Chen34:32

       ... you know, they, they kind of like did this backpedal thing when, when they're so strong on other forms of activism here, like, like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan34:38

       Yeah.

   25. MCMelissa Chen34:38

       ... the NBA when it came to the North Carolina, the bathroom bill, you remember? Like the transgender bathroom bill?

   26. JRJoe Rogan34:43

       Mm-hmm.

   27. MCMelissa Chen34:43

       They were, they were always on the side of the woke. (smacks lips) But then when it came to the China/Hong Kong issue, they stood with the biggest... The, the oppressor.

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:53

       Yeah, it's always hard when someone does side on the woke, like what are you, are you doing this 'cause you think this or are you doing this 'cause you think it'll make people think more highly of you if you do it? It's such a contrived thing today. It's so difficult to figure out why people are acting the way they're acting. So when they were acting in that way, it was so transparent.

   29. MCMelissa Chen35:16

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan35:16

       It was, there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it, like they were pressured and they were worried about the money, they were worried about economic, you know-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MCMelissa Chen45:00

      uh, the UN passed this resolution condemning China's treatment of the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Yeah.

   3. MCMelissa Chen45:05

      And the signatories to that, um, to that bill, that UN bill was basically, um, United States, New Zealand, the Europe, a lot of European powers. The so-called, you know, like, these are countries that are often accused of being Islamophobes because they won't accept Muslim refugees, or that many Muslim refugees. But you have Pakistan and even some, you know, majority of the Gulf countries siding with China, defending China on, on their treatment with, with the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang. And it's one of those things that's just like, "What? Pff. How, how is this happening?" You know? It doesn't make sense.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:41

      Does anybody have a road map of how they expect all this to play out?

   5. MCMelissa Chen45:47

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:47

      Because it seems that this, this could be a real problem in the future, and most Americans up until this whole, um, the, uh, up until this trade issue with the Trump administration, most Americans didn't even think about China.

   7. MCMelissa Chen46:04

      I don't, no, I don't think, I think Hong Kong was the-

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:07

      Yeah.

   9. MCMelissa Chen46:07

      ... was the thing that kind of lit, you know, the whole barrel.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       Just seeing the hundreds of thousands of people in the streets every day-

   11. MCMelissa Chen46:12

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       ... for weeks after months after-

   13. MCMelissa Chen46:13

       Really young people too.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:15

       Yeah, yeah.

   15. MCMelissa Chen46:16

       Yeah. Um, I think the, the thing has, that has kind of, like, descended into police brutality, like, protests against police brutality now, um, but it's still going on. There's still-

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:24

       Yeah.

   17. MCMelissa Chen46:24

       ... you know? And then now with the whole coronavirus, you know, flaring up there, it's, it's highlighting a lot of issues with the, with the Chinese government. Um, Taiwan is another issue still. There are the three Ts you can't really talk about in China now, Tiananmen, Tibet, Taiwan. These are three things that absolute, you know, no-go, no-go zones.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       Now, what year did you come over here? How old were you?

   19. MCMelissa Chen46:48

       17.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:48

       17?

   21. MCMelissa Chen46:49

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       What was the shift like going from Singapore to the United States? You lived in New York then?

   23. MCMelissa Chen46:54

       No, no, Boston. Boston.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:55

       Boston?

   25. MCMelissa Chen46:55

       Your, your hometown, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       Yeah.

   27. MCMelissa Chen46:57

       Yeah. I lived in Boston for 10 years. Um, really enjoyed it actually. Kinda miss it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       It's cold as fuck.

   29. MCMelissa Chen47:03

       It... No, I, I like it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:05

       (laughs)
5. 1:00:00 – 1:14:37

   LOL. …

   1. MCMelissa Chen1:00:00

      right? It's, it's kind of, like, reminds me of, like... 'Cause I grew up pretty evangelical, my mom was very religious, it was that she tried to-... t- it's that, okay, if you're, if you're a good Christian, you might get corrupted by bad ideas, so we have to ban... I don't know like Harry Potter books are banned in my household. It's like we had to ban all these-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

      LOL.

   3. MCMelissa Chen1:00:18

      (laughs) Because it, it encouraged witchcraft, so I wasn't allowed to celebrate Halloween.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

      (laughs)

   5. MCMelissa Chen1:00:22

      You know.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

      Encouraged witchcraft? Wow, that's heavy.

   7. MCMelissa Chen1:00:25

      Yeah, yeah. It's pagan stuff.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

      That's heavy.

   9. MCMelissa Chen1:00:26

      It's satanic. But, but that's what I mean. This is like, this is satanic, this is evil, and it, it has taken on this religious dimension-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MCMelissa Chen1:00:34

       ... this liturgical dimension because it's, well, they're always so concerned that the corruption is just going, like they're gonna drift to the right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:41

       Of course.

   13. MCMelissa Chen1:00:41

       They're never concerned that, that somebody might be convinced by the arguments and go to the left. Why? I don't get that.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

       Well, the drifting to the left, first of all, they think would be a good thing. The problem is-

   15. MCMelissa Chen1:00:52

       But why don't they think it would happen?

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       Oh, well, they don't worry about it. They're not worried that someone would drift to the left. You mean by looking at someone's offensive views and that they would be more likely to drift to the left? Is that what you mean?

   17. MCMelissa Chen1:01:03

       That like... Okay, it's like let's say we expose everybody to all ideas.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

       Right.

   19. MCMelissa Chen1:01:08

       Why are we so concerned that, that the individual, that they're, you know, the, the target I guess would be, would be shifted right and not shifted left if-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

       Yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah.

   21. MCMelissa Chen1:01:17

       ... if there's an equal.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       I think it's they have an infantile perspective on ideas and they're worried about people being indoctrinated. They're worried about... What they're not worried... Look, if you, if you have someone talking and this, this person is preaching some rid- ridiculous thing and someone starts becoming indoctrinated and gravitates towards that, the real problem is that these people that are being indoctrinated are gullible and they're foolish. That's the real problem. And in your eyes, they're l- they're going in the incorrect way.

   23. MCMelissa Chen1:01:49

       So it's infantilizing.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:50

       Yeah.

   25. MCMelissa Chen1:01:50

       Yeah, it's actually patronizing.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:52

       It is patronizing.

   27. MCMelissa Chen1:01:53

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:53

       Yes.

   29. MCMelissa Chen1:01:54

       I think that's, that's what I couldn't stand about it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:56

       You, those people are dumber than you, you're smarter, you know better, you need to stop these people from being tricked-

Episode duration: 2:24:54