Joe Rogan Experience #1430 - Raghunath Cappo

1. 0:01 – 1:38

   Reuniting after years: “Yoga Ray,” UFC commentary, and old training bonds

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Three, two, one, boom. We're live. What's up, Ray? How are you, buddy?

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo0:07

      Pretty good. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Great to see you, man. It's been a while.

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo0:10

      It's been-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      10 years?

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo0:15

      No, more than that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Really?

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo0:16

      2007, I moved out of LA.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Wow. Damn.

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo0:20

       Unbelievable.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       That's weird.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo0:20

       I know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       I've talked about you in the podcast several times, though.

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo0:22

       You know what? Uh, I never listened to the pod- podcast until recently. Um, someone told me the second time you said, I think three times you've mentioned me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Probably.

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo0:32

       "Yoga Ray."

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Yoga Ray. (laughs)

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo0:34

       And all these kids are contacting me, "They mentioned Yoga Ray on the show."

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       (laughs)

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo0:38

       Yeah. It was, it was cool. I appreciate it. I appreciate you.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       I appreciate you too, man.

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo0:41

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I-

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo0:42

       I always thought, truthfully, I always thought, "Joe Rogan's gonna do something good." I honestly, I can tell you that. And it, it may be embarrassing to say, but, um, what, I'm proud of you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Oh, thank you.

   26. RCRaghunath Cappo0:53

       I hope- I hope you don't mind me saying that.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       That's very nice. No, I don't-

   28. RCRaghunath Cappo0:55

       I'm proud of all you've done.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       That's, thank you. That's very nice. That's a funny thing to say though.

   30. RCRaghunath Cappo0:59

       And you've had great just at the Joe Rogan time, you've had, done some great stuff. First of all, standup comedian, that's a, that's a great gig.
2. 1:38 – 4:36

   The no-gi shift and the 10th Planet era: innovation in early American jiu-jitsu

   1. RCRaghunath Cappo1:38

      Those were some of the greatest m- memories of my time in LA, is when Eddie opened 10th Planet.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:44

      Yeah, we had a lot of fun, man.

   3. RCRaghunath Cappo1:45

      I mean, it was such a special-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:47

      We did a lot of training.

   5. RCRaghunath Cappo1:47

      ... interesting time of jujitsu, I think, that was going to no, no gi. There's this-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:52

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RCRaghunath Cappo1:52

      ... demographic of jujitsu guys who didn't wanna wear a gi anymore.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      Yeah. Well, it was a lot of people wanted to learn things that would transition directly into MMA, and to not have the clothes to grab onto, it changed the grips. And Eddie was one of the very first to really, truly concentrate on using wrestling grips, gable grips, over-unders, things along those lines. Uh, and then the other people were still really clinging to the gi.

   9. RCRaghunath Cappo2:17

      He was like a, uh... And I think the thing w- that I was attracted to about the Ultimate Fighting when I first saw... I think the first one I saw was 2, you know, UFC 2, and I was like, "Oh, man. This is..." And you watch those Gracie in action videos.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:31

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RCRaghunath Cappo2:31

       It's like, "Yeah, this is real stuff."

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       That's how it really works.

   13. RCRaghunath Cappo2:33

       "I wanna learn real stuff."

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       Yeah.

   15. RCRaghunath Cappo2:35

       And so I started even noticing in my gi game, I just played open guard, and I was lackadaisical, and I'd always have to tell the guys, "Hey, do me a favor. Just try to slap me, because, uh, this is getting-"

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       (laughs)

   17. RCRaghunath Cappo2:46

       "... a little unreal. I don't want a, I want a real-life situation."

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       Right.

   19. RCRaghunath Cappo2:51

       And I'm figuring, "Okay, I don't wanna get..." By the way, I don't wanna get caught up in the gi, no-gi thing right now, but I always felt like, you know, real practical fighting. Um, the guy may not be wearing a tuxedo.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       I think both are good, because, like, you live in New York. New York gets cold. If you get into a scuffle with someone, uh, I hope you would never would do, but if you-

   21. RCRaghunath Cappo3:09

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:09

       ... did, and he was wearing a jacket like yours, you could manipulate him with that jacket, and they really probably wouldn't know what to do.

   23. RCRaghunath Cappo3:15

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       You know, there's a real benefit to, like, being a judo player if someone has a winter coat on.

   25. RCRaghunath Cappo3:20

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:20

       Like, if you had a fight with-

   27. RCRaghunath Cappo3:21

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       ... Karo Parisyan or Ronda Rousey or someone like that, and they, they're wearing a, a winter coat-

   29. RCRaghunath Cappo3:25

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:25

       ... they'll fuck you up.
3. 4:36 – 6:58

   Jean Jacques Machado, Renzo’s NYC gym, and the ‘rare black belt’ days

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:36

      It was. It's like when you look back at those times, it's an, it was an interesting era. It was an interesting era for us as humans. It was an interesting era for martial arts. There was a lot going on, and that, 10th Planet was really, uh, a hub of exciting innovation, and still is. But I mean, back then it was this really unique thing. This, this completely no-gi branch of jujitsu that's directly connected to Jean Jacques Machado, which is a totally legit-

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo5:05

      Very conservative, legit...

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:07

      Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo5:07

      Jean Jacques was, is-

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:09

      Still.

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo5:09

      I mean, I was s- so I'm always impressed with him too.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:11

      He still rolls, man.

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo5:13

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:13

      He's at my age and he doesn't get injured. Like, he, he might have, like, a little tweak here and there, but he's so intelligent and he's so technical and he's just so good.

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo5:22

       That was, I- I'm saying was only because I'm not there anymore, but when I was going there, I was like, "This is such an amazing place." Jean Jacques Academy, the quality of fighters you would get there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       Yeah.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo5:35

       Ju- I mean, that was also at a time where there was no jujitsu in America. I mean, it was, you have to travel-

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       Yeah, you gotta go somewhere.

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo5:40

       ... to get to a jujitsu school.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       Yeah.

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo5:41

       You have to fi- you have to be into it and go somewhere and, um, to have that many black belts at a school.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo5:49

       That was, like, unheard of in jujitsu schools.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Yeah, I remember I was in his class one day and there was, like, 11 black belts. I was like, "This is crazy."

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo5:55

       And it wasn't like that back then.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       No. Very, very unusual.

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo5:57

       There was a random rogue black belt somewhere in San-

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:00

       Yep. (laughs)

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo6:00

       You know, somewhere in Portland or something like that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       Yep, yep. You had to find them. It was a lot of purple belts teaching schools and blue belts teaching schools in some places even.

   26. RCRaghunath Cappo6:08

       That was a great time to get into jujitsu also.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       Oh, yeah.

   28. RCRaghunath Cappo6:10

       Like, I went...I started with Renzo in New York.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:15

       In New York, yeah.

   30. RCRaghunath Cappo6:16

       I went there the day that, uh, Matt Serra got his purple belt.
4. 6:58 – 8:17

   Jiu-jitsu culture vs. yoga culture: camaraderie, body contact, and learning under pressure

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:58

      He's so loved, that guy's so... I mean, that's one of the really nice things about jujitsu is the camaraderie and the friendship. It's like, it's very different than... I always just, uh, compare it to other martial arts in that the problem with striking martial arts is that you hurt each other all the time. You never develop the sort of closeness that you do with jujitsu because you're always trying to kick each other's fucking heads off.

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo7:18

      Well, you know, I did Ashtanga yoga for years, where it's sort of silent and you're just doing a set series of poses.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:23

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo7:25

      I could be with people, like, every day for a year and practically never speak to them.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:30

      Right.

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo7:30

      I remember meeting a guy at the DMV. I was like, "I know you. You're right next to me every morning for two hours-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:35

      (laughs)

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo7:35

      ... but we've never spoken a word." Jujitsu, you become best friends with a guy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:39

      Yeah.

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo7:39

       That you walk out with, like, 20 new friends.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:42

       You know each other so well too.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo7:43

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:43

       Like you know when someone's breaking, you know when someone's exhausted, you, you know when someone's getting better, you know when someone's really been consistent. You know, like you roll with someone, they're super sharp, you're like, "What have you been doing?" Like-

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo7:54

       Right. What have you...

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:55

       ... "Oh, I've been going four days a week now."

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo7:56

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Oh, wow.

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo7:58

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:58

       You see it, right?

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo7:59

       Yeah. They become like your best friends.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       Yeah.

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo8:01

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:01

       Well, it's also like, we appreciate when someone's really good. Like if you roll with someone and they're really good and they start getting you, and they didn't used to get you before, you, like, you, like, you get excited-

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo8:11

       It's like, "Uh."

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:11

       ... like, "All right, I gotta ramp up my game," 'cause you, you're-

   26. RCRaghunath Cappo8:13

       Yeah. He's doing something.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:14

       ... you're doing real, doing really well. Mm-hmm.

   28. RCRaghunath Cappo8:14

       You have a different metric with all these...

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:16

       Yeah.

   30. RCRaghunath Cappo8:17

       Yeah.

5. 8:17 – 11:00

   Raghunath’s shift from jiu-jitsu to yoga—and “illegal” techniques at modern schools

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:17

      Well, I remember you being one of the first guys that I knew that got into yoga. And yoga is a huge part of jujitsu now. So many people that train in jujitsu-

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo8:26

      Uh-huh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:26

      I think-

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo8:27

      I'm jyu... By the way, I'm jujitsu illiterate now.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:29

      Uh, you still know.

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo8:30

      Eh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:31

      What did, what did you st- when you stopped, were you a brown belt?

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo8:34

      I was purple.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:34

      Purple.

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo8:35

       I was purple. I, uh, w- because I, I didn't, I stopped going to Jean Jacques's classes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo8:38

       And we just wanted to... And I think it's sort of before Eddie started giving out... Well, actually, maybe he did, he g-

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       He was giving out belts pretty early.

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo8:44

       He gave out belts actually.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       Yeah.

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo8:46

       But I just wasn't... It was confusing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       Just wasn't enough.

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo8:49

       It was confusing 'cause I was sort of with Jean Jacques-

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:51

       Right.

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo8:52

       ... but I just, I wanted to do the no-gi stuff.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Yeah.

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo8:54

       And Eddie had this natural flex, has this natural flexibility that I c- I related to, and he's my size, and I related to that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:01

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo9:01

       And I'm not like... I was never super athlete in high school or anything like that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:05

       Mm-mm.

   26. RCRaghunath Cappo9:05

       I was, like, short, I couldn't d- but I was flex, I was reasonably flexible and yoga got me really flexible. And so I appre- I s- I was like, "Okay, he has a really great closed guard game. I wanna learn that from him."

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:16

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RCRaghunath Cappo9:16

       And I really sort of, like, honed in on what he could give.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:21

       Yeah.

   30. RCRaghunath Cappo9:22

       And so, yeah, I never, like, approached him, "Hey, can I have a belt?"
6. 11:00 – 16:54

   Diet wars and independent thinking: vegan ethics, plant-only health, and dogma traps

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:00

      Did you see his... He did a debate with, uh, this-

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo11:02

      I saw it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:03

      ... guy-

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo11:03

      I saw it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:03

      ... about, about his documentary. It was very interesting because that debate really should be, like, 15 hours long. We only got into some points that the other guy fucked up, uh, and got incorrect. And you get in the weeds with nutrition stuff, you know.

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo11:15

      Yeah. Well-

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:15

      Because he was a part of that Gamechanger documentary.

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo11:18

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:18

      You get into the weeds, it's really-

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo11:19

       And I, and you know, I heard that documentary was good. I sat down with my kids to watch it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       It's interesting.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo11:24

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:24

       It's like there's a lot of it that's not legit, and then there's a lot of it that is. Like, you can eat only plants. You can. You can be healthy eating only plants, but you have to do it right and it's not easy. And it's different for everybody. In some people, it does not agree with their body and it's not the optimum way for them to eat. For some people, when they get off of it and just start eating, like, more paleo or they start eating grass-fed meat, they feel so much better. Like I just, I just don't know if there is a perfect d- I, uh, no, I do know. There's not a perfect diet for any w- like, for every single human being on this planet. There's not, like, one diet that you could lock in and if you ate that way, you'd be fine. Everybody's different. And people have all these weird autoimmune disorders and shit, and a lot of them are triggered by certain carbohydrates and plants, and, and when you eliminate those things from your diet, you find all these, uh, skin problems clear up and-

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo12:16

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       ... people are trying to figure out, "Well, what's that all about?" And there's always people that think that maybe it's there's certain toxins like oxalates and polyphenols and stuff that exist in plants that might trigger your, uh, your gut sensitivity or autoimmune issues in the gut. There's a, it's so in the weeds, man. It's like-

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo12:33

       It's confusing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:33

       You can go on and on and on with-

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo12:34

       And you can debate about details.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       Mm-hmm. And everyone has a point.

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo12:38

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       They all have a point. The, the vegan people have a point when it comes to ethics, when it comes to animal rights, when it comes to, like, cruelty and factory farming. They have a point. And then the health conscious people, the people that are like, "You know, I don't give a fuck about that, I'm just, I'm just trying to be healthy. And I g- I cured up all my m- my diseases by just eating grass-fed meat. I'm just gonna buy it from, uh, y- you know, ethical ranchers."

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo13:02

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       They have a point too.

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo13:03

       Right. Well, last appreciation with Joe Rogan.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       Okay. Right.

   26. RCRaghunath Cappo13:06

       Relate for a, for what is, uh...... I was apr- I'm appreciating your, uh, independent thinking. It takes a lot because it's r- really easy just to opt into one side-

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RCRaghunath Cappo13:17

       ... and s- and dig your heels in.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:19

       It's bad for you, though.

   30. RCRaghunath Cappo13:20

       It's bad for you.
7. 16:54 – 19:57

   Where the name ‘Raghunath’ came from: mantras, sound, and ‘full-spectrum’ health

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:54

      Well, how did... What... How'd you get that name?

   2. RCRaghunath Cappo16:56

      So Raganath was alw- my name since about '91. A t- a teacher in India gave it to me.

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:02

      Oh.

   4. RCRaghunath Cappo17:03

      And, uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:03

      How's that work? How'd that work?

   6. RCRaghunath Cappo17:04

      It works where you, you approach teachers that you... that resonate with you, that sort of speak to you. The universe sends you people that speak to you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:15

      Hmm.

   8. RCRaghunath Cappo17:15

      I mean, I'm sure you've found that in your own life. There's certain people that explain something better than anybody, and it's, it's might be at different times in your life. And then, uh, the teacher feels you're ready, and they want to, like, sort of like give you a mantra.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:28

      Hmm.

   10. RCRaghunath Cappo17:28

       So they give you a mantra, and the mantra is... Mantra's sound, and the sound is very powerful 'cause sound affects the way we think. They say as far as transformation in yoga, like, we do have something very physical, and it starts to transform the bo- You're into yoga now-

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RCRaghunath Cappo17:43

       ... uh, from what I know of you.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:43

       Yeah.

   14. RCRaghunath Cappo17:44

       We both, I guess, we've been r- researching each other, but... So, um, and you have an appreciation for yoga 'cause it radically starts to change your body, and then starts to sort of slow down the pace of your thoughts and your mind, um, and your endu- and helps with your endurance and your cardio and all that stuff. So the grossest way to change is the change of the body. And the breathing start to also change your cardiovascular system, your endurance, and then, of course, the sounds that we hear, they say, are the most transformational. And it's almost hard to believe, especially coming from the West, because in the West, we're thinking, you know, "Sounds? How's that gonna make me healthy?" But it's all about sound that creates a healthy mind, a calm mind, a connected mind. The mind can... The idea behind yoga is it can go to a d- a dark place. The mind can go to a very dark place very quick. And those thoughts, you were just... as... were not our thoughts. But our thoughts can get us into trouble, they can get us in jail, they can get us divorced. They could, 'cause they could... The thoughts create an action. And so we might have an external cleanliness, but if we don't have that internal cleanliness, it's, you're not actually healthy.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       Hmm.

   16. RCRaghunath Cappo18:54

       So there's a different metric of what health is in the yoga system. And we've always taken it, in the Western world, to be, well, we're gonna... you know, health means fitness, you know? And so we're gonna become fit. But you could be fit and be angry. You could be fit and be resentful. You could be fit and be, um, unforgiving.And so then the next question is, w- what is your actual health then? W- where i- where, what is f- full spectrum health look like?

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       Right.

   18. RCRaghunath Cappo19:20

       And that's sort of what I, I love what yoga addresses. Um, and I feel like what we are doing there in, uh, in these great martial arts teachers that we've had teach us is how to be sort of almost like you're f- fighting this fight.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RCRaghunath Cappo19:37

       But there's no rage. You're not actually even angry at the person. It's actually just, (laughs) you're just doing what you're supposed to do right now. Can I be completely relaxed and do this?

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       Under stress. Under the stress of combat.

   22. RCRaghunath Cappo19:52

       Under incredible amounts of stress.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       Yeah.

   24. RCRaghunath Cappo19:53

       A guy's trying to, a guy's trying to choke the life out of you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       Yeah, literally.

8. 19:57 – 28:45

   The Santa Monica car-theft fight: calm conflict, jiu-jitsu stalemate, and real violence

   1. RCRaghunath Cappo19:57

      Yeah. I had, I, I had, you know, I had a f- I had a fight back then. I don't like to fight. I'm not, like, I don't look at myself as a fighter. I look at myself more as a meditator, but I got in a fight right at that time, probably when I saw you last.

   2. JRJoe Rogan20:09

      What happened?

   3. RCRaghunath Cappo20:10

      A guy ... It was in Santa Monica. The guy just stole my car.

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:13

      Oh, wow.

   5. RCRaghunath Cappo20:14

      It was my first date with my wife.

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:15

      (laughs)

   7. RCRaghunath Cappo20:16

      So let's see, it was our first day we married 16 years, the guy stole my car. Uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:20

      And how'd you catch him?

   9. RCRaghunath Cappo20:21

      Well, we are walking up the street, and she said, "Oh, you left your lights on in your car." And I said, "No, I have a, I have a Saab." You need the keys to o- turn on the, to get the lights on, so that can't be my car. But my top was down. It was a convertible Saab, and the top was down, and I was like, "Man, that is my car. How do I have my lights on?" And then I realized, there is this dude in my car trying to start my car. And my wife left her keys in the glove compartment, and h- I guess he opened the glove compartment, went into a convertible which was open. I had no alarm. It was one of those old Saab 900s I used to have. And you, and you put the keys in, and he just couldn't start 'cause it wasn't the right keys. So I don't, I don't know if it was because of yoga or jujitsu or whatever it was, but I was so calm about it. I just said, "Hold my sweatshirt." And I was super skinny then. I was like, I don't know if you remember my diet. It was, I was 100% raw foodist, vegan, like, you know, a buck 47 soaking wet with a crystal in my pocket, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:27

       (laughs)

   11. RCRaghunath Cappo21:28

       (laughs) And I just said, uh, in a very calm way, I just said, "Hold my jacket." And I, I ran. I jumped on the back of the trunk. I jumped over and jumped on his head, and then I ... And I'm small, so I w- I, I, I drive real close to the steering wheel, and I slip behind him and tried to choke him, but I couldn't get deep enough behind him to get the choke in, and it was this big dude. I couldn't really tell from when I jumped, but it was this big dude, and I just said, and he said, "You trying to choke me? I'm gonna kill you." But it was such a stalemate because he couldn't move. I couldn't get the choke in deep enough, and it was just a stalemate, and it went on for, like, three minutes just there.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:11

       Whoa.

   13. RCRaghunath Cappo22:11

       But I was just breathing. And then he went back to grab my face, and you do that thing in jujitsu where you hook the guy's arm with your leg.

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RCRaghunath Cappo22:17

       So he had that, I had that arm trapped. He couldn't move. I couldn't move. My wife was looking at me. She's not calling the cops. She's just, like, looking there shocked. And it's mi-

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       This is your first date?

   17. RCRaghunath Cappo22:26

       It's our first date. It's midnight in Santa Monica, right down, like, in-

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       Oh, Jesus Christ.

   19. RCRaghunath Cappo22:30

       ... right in, you know, by The Coffee Bean or something.

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:32

       Yeah.

   21. RCRaghunath Cappo22:33

       And, uh, finally we stand up in the seat. We were standing in the front seat. My windows are up, but the top is down. I cup his neck, and I punch him twice, and he grabs me by the shirt. He gr- I grab him by the shirt, and we throw each other through the windows.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:49

       Oh, Jesus.

   23. RCRaghunath Cappo22:49

       And they snap and shatter, and we fall out of the car over the door and roll in the street, and I put him in my guard. And then he just, at that point, I think, he just turned and ran. And I pulled his shirt off. Check this out. I had his shoes, his, 'cause his shoes fell off. They were sort of, like, untied Adidas. His shoes fell off. His pants dropped to his ankles 'cause they were low-hanging pants.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       They were sagging.

   25. RCRaghunath Cappo23:14

       Sagging pants.

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       (laughs)

   27. RCRaghunath Cappo23:15

       His baseball hat fell off, and I pulled his s- and I had his shirt, and he ran away. And we're both covered in blood 'cause there's glass all over us. And, uh, he runs away in his underwear pulling up his pants in his socks. A- and, uh, that's the story.

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:33

       (laughs)

   29. RCRaghunath Cappo23:33

       My wife looks on. I was like, "Why didn't you call the cops?" She's like, "I don't know. That was something like the coolest thing I've ever seen."

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       (laughs)
9. 28:45 – 43:51

   From hardcore straight-edge to monkhood: Youth of Today, ego tests, and walking away at the peak

   1. RCRaghunath Cappo28:45

      You know, I did, uh, music for most of my life, um, with Youth of Today. Youth of Today was the band before I became a monk, and then I, and at the height of that career, this was a New York City, hardcore, straight edge band. We didn't drink, we didn't smoke, and we, you know, uh, were all strict vegetarians.

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:06

      What are you doing there?

   3. RCRaghunath Cappo29:08

      Oh, that's me-

   4. JRJoe Rogan29:09

      Yeah.

   5. RCRaghunath Cappo29:09

      ... in a more relaxed form. That's a good photo. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan29:15

      (laughs)

   7. RCRaghunath Cappo29:15

      So, that's what I did. As, and, and, um, the idea of the band, we were teenagers. We were all teenagers, me and my, uh, my b- buddy, Parmananda, who also later moved into an ashram. So, uh, we started this when we were in s- 16, 17. And, um, it was a cool scene making our own music and stuff like that. But when we got Youth of Today together, it was about sort of a message of better living, positive mental attitude, um, these spiritual principles like karma and what goes around comes around, and, uh, um, respect, dignity, um, uh, controlling your senses and your mind. And-

   8. JRJoe Rogan29:59

      What, what led you to that?

   9. RCRaghunath Cappo30:00

      I don't know. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:01

       Really?

   11. RCRaghunath Cappo30:02

       I don't know.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       Really?

   13. RCRaghunath Cappo30:03

       I've always been interested in sp- my idea of a good time was, this was like '80s in New York City, was you'd find these like Easty-Westy bookstores that had books on yoga and metaphysics and reincarnation, and just plop it down and read books all afternoon by swamis and sadhus and weirdos and palm readers and stuff like that. That's my idea of what a good time was. And I always felt like life is meant for our self-edification. That's why we're here. We're here on a mission of growth. And when I h- when I read books by sages or mystics and things like that, I was always like, "I wanna be like that. That's what I wanna be. That's bigger than anything out there that I wanna be." So truthfully, the band, I never really want... I'm not a musician. I play a little bit of everything. I wrote all the songs, but it, I always looked at myself as more like a seeker and, uh, maybe a spokesperson. But then at a certain point in the success of that band, I started realizing, okay, now we're big and there's a lot of people who are following those sort of principles of controlling your senses, we don't drink, we don't smoke, we are, uh, we don't take drugs, uh, we're, uh, you know, we, we con- care about what we eat. But that's not the goal. That's like a doorway to something bigger. And so for me, I had to step away from that, even though it wasn't...... bad or a- anything. It, it wasn't what I wanted to become, and at th- uh, it was a certain point in my life. You know, y- you get to a certain end of a chapter in your life, and it w- for me, and at the time, it was the height of the band's career as well. We started touring internationally and stuff like that. But I realized there was no amount ... And, and by the way, this was '80s in New York, which is a very cool time. Run-DMC, Madonna, the Beastie Boys. Y- you never knew, like, what was about to, like, blow up, and you were with all these other people that they were your inspiration and they were your friends and stuff like that. So, uh, at that height in excitement, I just said, "There is no amount of, like, material success I want that's gonna fill sort of like a God-shaped hole in my heart." There's nothing out there that I want, and it wa- it was also a very precarious time in my life where, um ... not precarious, but, uh, a time where my father went into a coma for three years.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:29

       Oh, Jesus.

   15. RCRaghunath Cappo32:30

       I know. It's hor- it's so horrible to even say, think about.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:33

       What happened?

   17. RCRaghunath Cappo32:34

       What happened was he got some unknown lum- lung infection. He was young, 64. Y- unknown lung infection and there was some neglect in the hospital, and his lung collapsed. And so comas are one of these places where you don't ... "Is he do- dead? He's n- is he alive?" And it's so confusing for a person that loves that person-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       Hm.

   19. RCRaghunath Cappo32:57

       ... how to even react, and, uh, you know, in a, uh, I'll say in a humiliating way, I couldn't real- I couldn't deal with it, and I sort of shut myself off. And, um, I went and just started working on my music, something I could do, and then at his death when he'd finally left his body, I wa- I was cultivating a strong desire to go to India and, and study more. And I was, at that time, I was also studying yoga, Ayurvedic medicine.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:28

       So he went into a coma for three years-

   21. RCRaghunath Cappo33:30

       Three years.

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:30

       ... and then he expired?

   23. RCRaghunath Cappo33:31

       And then when he died, I-

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:32

       At the end of the coma?

   25. RCRaghunath Cappo33:33

       At the, at-

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:33

       He never came out of the coma?

   27. RCRaghunath Cappo33:34

       He never came out of the coma. And when he, and when he left his body, I decided, "I'm going to India now." This was m- that was the sign for me, and I quit the band.

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:43

       And this is at the peak of the band.

   29. RCRaghunath Cappo33:46

       It was at the peak of Youth of Today, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:48

       Was that hard to walk away from all that?
10. 43:51 – 1:00:30

    Life in the ashram: renunciation, Bhakti yoga, and how food ‘carries consciousness’

    1. RCRaghunath Cappo43:51

       I was a monk for about six and a half years.

    2. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)43:53

       Wow.

    3. RCRaghunath Cappo43:54

       Yeah. And it was a, it was a great time of life. And-

    4. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)43:57

       How old were you?

    5. RCRaghunath Cappo43:58

       Let me... I was 22.

    6. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)44:00

       So from 22 to 28, you were a monk.

    7. RCRaghunath Cappo44:01

       I was a monk. That means celibate, no masturbating, nothing for seven year... or seven and a half years.

    8. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)44:08

       Where'd you live?

    9. RCRaghunath Cappo44:08

       I lived in ashrams in India and in America, and I traveled all over the world actually.

    10. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)44:13

        Wow.

    11. RCRaghunath Cappo44:13

        But it was, it was... I, I... But I, I'll t- tell you what brought me to that place. After the... After being very materially frustrated, and I, I said those two main factors were some type of material success. I wasn't The Beatles or... And I wasn't, you know, Michael Jackson, but I had some material s-... I had fans. Um, and then realizing how life can get taken away from you in a moment with a... with, with that precarious place my father was at, it just made me start thinking, "What the hell am I doing in a short... in this short life? What am I supposed to do?" Give me some GPS. Give me some, "Where do I go from here? What do I want out of life? What is the... What is a home run?" Is it just to be as very famous? Is that the... is that the home run? Is it to be a collect tons of stuff? Is that a home run? Is to live a natural life? Is that a home run? Is to learn some art, you know, some type of art? Is that a home run? And so this was my, my burning question. And, um, and I was still a New Yorker and I was still sort of like a, you know, New York in the '80s, so I was, like, a little street smart New Yorker. I'm actually from Connecticut, but I, uh-

    12. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)45:21

        Wow.

    13. RCRaghunath Cappo45:21

        ... started hanging out in New York City. My parents were New Yorkers and so we used to... My older brothers lived in the city so I'd, I'd visit them. But some... At the time I was 14, I used to just go to New York City and just hang out on the weekends. (sighs) And, uh, when I became a m- a monk or w- and went to India, I had saved about 25,000 bucks. Not a lot of money, not, n- n- not tons of money, but it was, you know, some money I made. And I thought in my brain, "Okay." This is my cynical self. "I'm gonna go to India. I'm gonna meet a guru and the guru's gonna want all my money." This is how it works. (laughs) But when I actually lived with the monks, in India, especially India then, 1988, there is no central AC and it's hot, there is no heat and it's cold. In the winter, the showers are freezing because all the water's kept on a tank on the (laughs) roof of the ashram. In the summer, that water's super hot because it's all kept on a tank on top of the ashram. There's no creature comforts whatsoever. You go to bed early, you wake up super early. You go to bed, you know, 8:30, you wake up 3:00 in the morning. There's nothing that... There's nothing to buy, there's nothing to purchase. All the fun things that we like to, to, like, ease the pain of existence are not there. Um, i- you know, there's no movies, there's no television, there's no comedy. There, there's nothing. W- and so two things happen when you strip everything away from a person. They lose it, they hop the fence, so to speak, and I've seen that happen, or they learn to find their pleasure from something more subtle. And so when I first went there and saw the joy of the monks, I realized, "They don't want my money. They don't want anything I have to offer them. I want what they have." That was sort of a game changer moment for me. I wanna figure out how to be connected with nothing.

    14. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)47:26

        What did these guys do all day?

    15. RCRaghunath Cappo47:28

        (laughs) I don't know. They all did different stuff, I think.

    16. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)47:31

        Yeah?

    17. RCRaghunath Cappo47:31

        Everybody does... A- and every ashram's got their own thing. You know what I mean?

    18. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)47:34

        Did you have chores that you had to do to e- to earn your food? Like, did you have-

    19. RCRaghunath Cappo47:37

        Yeah. There... Every b-... You know, every ashram is gonna be different and every sp- uh, s- spiritual path. The- there's Christian monks and, you know, monks from different traditions around the world, I'm sure they all got their thing, different things. But later, I started doing my next band because the interesting thing about the Bhagavad Gita... The Bhagavad Gita is... you're familiar with.

    20. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)47:59

        Sure.

    21. RCRaghunath Cappo47:59

        It's one chapter of the biggest epic in the world, the Mahabharata. And it's a... it's the most studied and discussed and commented on by all the saints of ancient India. Um, people even bring it into politics and stuff. But it's a real conversation between the spirit and divo- divinity, and it's a conversation about, uh, (inhales) just about... it's just w-... it's just a- considered ancient wisdom for all people. So the... one of the ideas of the Gita is you don't give up what you're born to do. You do what you do, but in a spiritual way. You don't try to, like, wipe out your desires. It's not gonna happen. You take what you do and you do it in a way that is gonna assist you in your liberation and is gonna assist everybody else. So, um, even... I- I'll say, I love comedy, but I want comedy that uplifts me and not... doesn't degrade me. I like entertainment that when I walk away from it, I learn something. I feel like I'm growing. I feel connected. I don't want stuff that's gonna just give me darker thoughts.

    22. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)49:07

        Like The Joker?

    23. RCRaghunath Cappo49:08

        I've, I've never seen it.

    24. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)49:09

        You didn't see it?

    25. RCRaghunath Cappo49:10

        I didn't. I, you k-... I'm... I wanna say that I live on a farm. (laughs) I live on a farm. We've ra-... I rarely watch anything except comedy. I love comedy, um, because I think laughing is important. Um, but I don't watch so much TV. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm pretty...

    26. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)49:27

        Is it-

    27. RCRaghunath Cappo49:27

        If I do go to the movie, movies, it's out of, like... with my wife, "Let's just... we wanna get away from the kids, we wanna do something."

    28. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)49:33

        Right.

    29. RCRaghunath Cappo49:34

        Um, but it... there's no plan on what to watch.

    30. GCGuest (secondary questioner, likely in-room producer or companion)49:36

        S-
11. 1:00:30 – 1:18:49

    Nature, modern disconnection, and hidden threats: stars, Lyme disease, and fracking water

    1. RCRaghunath Cappo1:00:30

       Isn't it like the end of the world, Joe? (laughs)

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       It's not the end of the world. It's a new world. It's, I mean, obviously right now, ready? Everything's fine. Feel it, feel that?

    3. RCRaghunath Cappo1:00:40

       (laughs)

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Everything's fine. We're in this room. It's sustainable. I mean, people look at it in terms of they extrapolate, like, "If this happens and that happens and we keep going, oh my God, it's gonna be awful in 10, 15 years." Guess what? They thought that when the car came out.

    5. RCRaghunath Cappo1:00:54

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       They thought that when the printing press was invented. They thought that i- when, when people stepped out of the caves and, and started building huts. This has always been the case with people. We're terrified of change, you know? I d- I'm not, I'm not terrified that the world is ending, uh, that it's unsustainable. We have problems. We have challenges, for sure. Um, but one of the big ones is that we're divorced from nature in a very, very, uh, strange way, and most people are, are urban population centers. Most people don't encounter nature. If you're in Manhattan, your best bet is Central Park, which is the most bastardized, zoo-like form of nature you're ever gonna find.

    7. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:34

       Right.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:34

       It's not real nature. Like, where you live, you live in upstate?

    9. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:38

       We got bears, we got foxes, we got-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:39

        Yeah. You have real nature. (laughs)

    11. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:41

        (laughs) Real nature.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

        That's real nature.

    13. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:42

        I gotta cut you-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        Do you guys have ticks? Did you get, do you got Lyme disease?

    15. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:44

        We got ticks. Uh-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

        Have you got Lyme disease?

    17. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:46

        I don't, I don't have Lyme disease, but it's a serious thing.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

        It's a huge thing.

    19. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:49

        It's a huge thing, and I, uh, I've, I pulled off many ticks.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:52

        Oh, those fuckers.

    21. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:52

        I've got bullseyes on my arms.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

        And did you get, uh, antibiotics right away?

    23. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:57

        Um, yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

        Yeah. You gotta.

    25. RCRaghunath Cappo1:01:59

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:59

        They're fuckers. Those-

    27. RCRaghunath Cappo1:02:00

        And a lot of kids have Lyme disease-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

        Yes.

    29. RCRaghunath Cappo1:02:02

        ... where I live. And-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

        A lot of people have it. It's terrible.

Episode duration: 2:57:17