Joe Rogan Experience #1441 - Hugo Martin

Joe Rogan 0:00 ... two, one. What's up, dude?

Hugo Martin 0:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:02 How are you?

Hugo Martin 0:03 Good. How are you?

Joe Rogan 0:04 First of all, the game looks fuck- tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Hugo Martin 0:07 (smacks lips) Uh, my name is Hugo Martin, and I'm the game director on Doom Eternal.

Joe Rogan 0:11 Oh, no!

Hugo Martin 0:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 They're dragging us back in. Let me tell you something, folks. We, h- he, Hugo just played some of Doom Eternal. He showed us the game and show, and, and ran through the, some of the first level. Holy fuck. Goddamn, it's so next level. It's so next level, graphics, it's so next-

Hugo Martin 0:27 It's cool.

Joe Rogan 0:27 ... everything about it, like the weapons, the demons, the, the way you kill them. It's the most violent thing I've ever seen in my life.

Hugo Martin 0:35 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 0:35 It's so ridiculous.

Hugo Martin 0:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:36 But it's like, seems like it's okay, because it's violence against demons.

Hugo Martin 0:39 Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 0:40 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 0:40 And, and we, we, we work hard on that. Like, you ne- there's no cursing. Th- I have three kids. There's no cursing. There's no sex. I do want it to be something that my nine-year-old could play.

Joe Rogan 0:50 Don't you think it's kind of crazy that you can rip people's heads off, you can shove their arm down their throat, you can cut them in half? That's fine, just don't use any of those naughty words, kids. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 1:01 Yes. Because I was joking with someone the other day. It's like, when I'm with my kids, like, he's not gonna go up to somebody and like glory kill them. But when someone says-

Joe Rogan 1:09 Explain what a glory kill is 'cause it sounds too much like glory hole-

Hugo Martin 1:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11 ... and people are gonna get really confused.

Hugo Martin 1:13 So in the game, when you damage a demon, uh, enough, they will glow, uh, with like a shader on them and that means you can go in to do a, a melee finisher basically, which is like a, a melee attack. And you'll get health from it. And there are these really, really cool animations.

Joe Rogan 1:26 And melee, we should explain, is like with your own hands.

Hugo Martin 1:29 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:29 You can rip them apart or cut them in half with a sword or a chainsaw or...

Hugo Martin 1:33 Yes. And-

Joe Rogan 1:34 It's so crazy.

Hugo Martin 1:35 Like, when my kids see that, they're not gonna do that. But when they hear someone use the F word, they're like, "Oh, I could use that in everyday life." And, and that sucks. So-

Joe Rogan 1:43 That's a very interesting rationalization.

Hugo Martin 1:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:44 I'm not buying it.

Hugo Martin 1:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:45 But, but the game is awesome. (laughs) It would be cool if you had an R-rated mode that you had to like, w- enter in your security number, social security number or something. It'll unlock it. It shows you're over 21.

Hugo Martin 1:55 (laughs) That would be funny.

Joe Rogan 1:57 You know?

Hugo Martin 1:57 That would be awesome. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:58 Or over 18. I feel like over 18. Yeah. And then you just hire your brother. "Dude, get in here. I'll give you five bucks."

Hugo Martin 2:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:03 "Unlock this bitch." (laughs)

Hugo Martin 2:04 That would be awesome. It, it's cartoonish violence though. You can see it.

Joe Rogan 2:08 Right.

Hugo Martin 2:08 It, it's very much like a cartoon, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah. And again, you're killing monsters. It's like-

Hugo Martin 2:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:12 ... Walking Dead when they spike 'em in the head. You can't do that to a person on TV but you could do it to a zombie.

Hugo Martin 2:16 And they're demons from hell. You're doing God's work.

Joe Rogan 2:18 You have to.

Hugo Martin 2:19 Yes, that's right.

Joe Rogan 2:20 When you need something, you have to... Uh, and we should explain that Doom was one of the very first 3D games. It was Castle Wolfenstein, right? That was like the first one with id Software. We've had Carmack in before. He's no longer with-

Hugo Martin 2:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:33 ... id Software. But who is, is Willett still there?

Hugo Martin 2:35 No, he's not there anymore either.

Joe Rogan 2:36 Goddamn it.

Hugo Martin 2:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:37 What about Hollingshead?

Hugo Martin 2:38 No.

Joe Rogan 2:39 What the fuck, bro? How's it id Software?

Hugo Martin 2:41 Uh, Marty Stratton.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Change the name. Get a bunch of new people running it.

Hugo Martin 2:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:45 L- listen, whoever's running it, they're doing an amazing job, because that game looks sick and I'm scared. I'm scared I'm gonna get sucked into it.

Hugo Martin 2:52 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 2:52 The game, first of all, the game play and then just the beginning sequence, the in-game, like, whole sequence looks like a f- like a CGI movie.

Hugo Martin 3:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:02 It doesn't look like game play. Like, remember when we used to play games and you used to have that opening scene that was like a video and then it would go to the game-

Hugo Martin 3:11 Totally.

Joe Rogan 3:11 ... but the game was crude? This game is exactly like the opening scene, which is so crazy.

Hugo Martin 3:18 Yeah. No prerendered. That, everything, those are the in-game assets. That's how good they are. The team is like insane. The guys are true artists, craftsmen. You know, like, they just go crazy on the details and when you zoom in with the camera for the cinematics, they completely hold up. The rigging, like it's like a feature film. It's nuts.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Are you guys still... There, there it is right now. Let's play the, let's play the, the, uh-

Narrator 3:37 This is the old trailer.

Joe Rogan 3:38 This is the old trailer?

Narrator 3:39 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 3:39 Yeah, this trailer's good.

Narrator 3:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:40 Let's play it for people. (tense music)

Narrator 3:43 This is humanity's chance to repent. (eerie music) Against all the evil that Hell can conjure.

Joe Rogan 3:57 And if you're just listening, you got to see this on YouTube.

Narrator 4:02 ... all the wickedness that mankind can produce.

Hugo Martin 4:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:02 And if you're like, "I'm a grownup. I don't have time for this shit. I have an IRA and a 401 (k) and I have kids."

Hugo Martin 4:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:07 Me too, bitch. Me too. (eerie music)

Narrator 4:12 Saving your people will not bring you peace. It will only make the burden you carry worse. (gun fires) For millennia, we have survived, made others sacrifice in the name of our prosperity. Who are you, a human, to defy our traditions? (guns fire)

Joe Rogan 4:48 Now, if you're just listening, this is just annoying music and noise. But if you're watching, it looks fucking sick.

Hugo Martin 4:54 Watch this. Oh. And then it, it goes bam, right in the head.

Narrator 4:59 Quickly. There are those who would seek to stop this.

Hugo Martin 5:04 Angels.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Oh, there's angels too? Oh, Jesus. Who is he?

Hugo Martin 5:07 Look at this.

Joe Rogan 5:08 Oh, shit.

Hugo Martin 5:11 You see that? (intense music)

Joe Rogan 5:12 So he's like the boss demon?

Narrator 5:14 The only thing I fear-

Joe Rogan 5:16 Whoa.

Narrator 5:17 ... is you.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Goddamn, this looks good. (eerie music)

Hugo Martin 5:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:30 Doom Eternal.

Hugo Martin 5:31 It looked off.

Joe Rogan 5:32 I anticipate a massive waste of time for people. 3/20, so that's when it comes out?

Hugo Martin 5:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:37 So it's j- what's that, nine days from now?

Hugo Martin 5:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:40 Wow.

Hugo Martin 5:41 That guy, if you're Bruce Lee, that is your Chuck Norris.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Oh.

Hugo Martin 5:44 Yeah. And you guys are gonna... And then the whole scene actually when you meet him, whi- which is a little clip from that, it's really inspired by that scene, uh, is it Enter the Dragon or Return of the Dragon when he fights Chuck Norris?

Joe Rogan 5:54 (smacks lips) I think it's Enter the Dragon.

Hugo Martin 5:55 Yes. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 5:56 I think.

Hugo Martin 5:57 You know like-

Joe Rogan 5:58 Is that what it is?

Hugo Martin 5:58 ... when they square off in the Coliseum, like-

Joe Rogan 5:59 Yes.

Hugo Martin 5:59 ... you know. The, the, he comes out and he says some badass shit and you like look at him and you're gonna fight.

Joe Rogan 6:03 Mm-hmm. (firing sounds) Yeah.

Hugo Martin 6:04 Yeah. (firing sounds)

Joe Rogan 6:05 Yeah, that's a fucking great scene.

Hugo Martin 6:07 That is a great scene.

Narrator 6:07 We have Way of the Dragon.

Joe Rogan 6:08 Is it really?

Hugo Martin 6:09 Way of the Dragon, yes.

Joe Rogan 6:10 Oh, wow. Way of the Dragon.

Hugo Martin 6:11 Or for the Star Wars fans, we say, like, it's like you're Obi-Wan and that's your Darth Maul.

Joe Rogan 6:16 Oh, okay. I like the first analogy better.

Hugo Martin 6:19 (laughs)

Narrator 6:20 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 6:20 You did a little bit worse.

Narrator 6:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:21 It feels like, I don't know, Star Wars has become too Disneyfied. It doesn't really sync up with that.

Hugo Martin 6:26 That fight is badass though between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul and-

Joe Rogan 6:29 Yes.

Hugo Martin 6:29 Oh, man, it's awesome.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Yeah, it's pretty badass.

Hugo Martin 6:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:31 That's before it went to shit, you know?

Hugo Martin 6:33 The, the fights in the prequels were amazing.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 6:35 Like they were really good.

Joe Rogan 6:37 Yes.

Hugo Martin 6:37 I've watched the one against Obi-Wan and, and, um, Anakin like a million times. Like I love that one. It's so good. Like when they sh- and the lava and shit, and they just-

Joe Rogan 6:46 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 6:46 ... go off on each other and like, it, it's amaze- George described it in an interview that it would be like you would be seeing, uh, Jedi at their peak. That, that really in the first three Star Wars films, they were not at their peak. And then in the prequels you would see them in their prime.

Joe Rogan 6:59 Hmm.

Hugo Martin 6:59 You know, like, like Hickson in his prime. So like-

Joe Rogan 7:01 Right.

Hugo Martin 7:01 ... it, that's what's so cool about that fight. They're just going off on each other. It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Hmm. Yeah. Well, what you guys have done is, uh, create something that's gonna ruin people's lives.

Hugo Martin 7:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:11 So I hope you're really excited about massive waste of time. I mean, we were talking before the show about video games and the addictive quality of video games. I have a real problem. I, I just can't play them that much.

Hugo Martin 7:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 7:23 I can dip my toe in every now and then, and then I shake my head and I gotta go running or something 'cause otherwise it'll get the grip on me.

Hugo Martin 7:29 Yes.

Joe Rogan 7:29 Because they're too fun. Like there's no movie that you're gonna watch that gives you the kind of engagement that your video game does.

Hugo Martin 7:34 Because you're like in the movie.

Joe Rogan 7:36 Yes. And it looks like a fucking movie now.

Hugo Martin 7:38 And you see it with The Glory Kills, like you are your own fight choreographer.

Joe Rogan 7:42 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 7:42 If you're sick of breaking the arm and shoving it in his head, then swing around from behind and cut him in half. You know, like do anything you want. (laughs) It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 7:49 Now as far as multiplayer, because I'm not really into playing games, the game-game. I'm into multiplayer.

Hugo Martin 7:55 So you, I promise if you play the single player, what is unique about our single player is that it will give you the same buzz that a multiplayer will give you because your opponents this time are the AI. And that opening level, that's white belts. You're, you're messing with like easy dudes. Um, the, later on it will continue to level up. And as you saw, like that guy that comes out with the ax, like again, he is, he is as tough as you are. So, uh, you will get the same feeling from the single player that you do from a multiplayer experience.

Joe Rogan 8:20 That's not really possible.

Hugo Martin 8:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:22 See, 'cause what I like is duels. I like, like, like in Quake Champions, I like playing duels. You know, that's what's fun for me. Like one on one, like me and Jamie would get barbecued and we'd come here and we'd play for hours just one on one. You run around the map and collect your rocket launchers and your ammo and armor and shit, and just fuck each other up.

Hugo Martin 8:41 We have a multiplayer called Battle Mode that is fucking awesome. Like it's really, really good. And then, um-

Joe Rogan 8:47 Is it like Quake multiplayer? Like same kind of deal?

Hugo Martin 8:50 No.

Joe Rogan 8:50 No?

Hugo Martin 8:50 No, it's, it's different. It's, it's very unique. Uh, the last multiplayer we made was not super well received. It was a really competent, good multiplayer, but it wasn't-

Joe Rogan 8:58 What was that?

Hugo Martin 8:58 Uh, it was just Doom 2016's multiplayer experience.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Oh, okay.

Hugo Martin 9:01 But, um, it really wasn't innovative enough. Like fans wanted to see us like do something new. So we basically took the single player experience, that combat loop that you'll master, and then we, we give you a way to do it with your friends. It's a 2v1, so it'd be, you know, two of you guys versus one guy gets to be the slayer with all the guns.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Hmm.

Hugo Martin 9:17 And it's really, really cool. And then there's Invasion. So like you'll play the single player campaign and then, uh, someone can become a demon. Like Jamie could become a demon and then invade you while you're playing and you won't know where he is and he'll just come out and try to fuck with you.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Hmm.

Hugo Martin 9:29 Like it's really cool.

Joe Rogan 9:30 But is there any one-on-one multiplayer?

Hugo Martin 9:32 Invasion's kind of one-on-one, but Battle Mode the closest we be- we come to the one-on-one is 2v1.

Joe Rogan 9:38 Oh, okay. That's weird. Why decide two verses one instead of one versus one?

Hugo Martin 9:42 It's just unique, you know? It's, it's, uh, the balance there. No one demon can stand against the slayer. You know, the Doom guy is all powerful. He's got all these, you know, he's right here.

Joe Rogan 9:52 There he is.

Hugo Martin 9:52 He's, he's got all the guns and the mods and he's got eight guns.

Joe Rogan 9:55 Why are his biceps exposed? It seems like a vulnerability.

Hugo Martin 9:58 Because it's like a kind of a con-

Joe Rogan 10:00 He's a badass?

Hugo Martin 10:00 (laughs) Pretty much. He's, he's-

Joe Rogan 10:01 But if someone comes along and cuts his fucking arm off, it seems like that's a good spot to hit.

Hugo Martin 10:05 His arms are like trees. So like they're, they're-

Joe Rogan 10:07 Whatever, they're made out of jelly donuts.

Hugo Martin 10:09 They're, they're very large.

Joe Rogan 10:10 Cut right through that shit.

Hugo Martin 10:11 They are so big that in one scene he raises like a sword and the bicep just like is, it's absurdly huge. But, but, um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:17 That's cute, but it's still made out of meat.

Hugo Martin 10:19 (laughs) That's true. That's true. The, the, uh, I forgot what I was saying.

Joe Rogan 10:23 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 10:23 But yes, you, you can, you can compete. Battle Mode is really good. You'll really like it.

Joe Rogan 10:28 Yeah, but why don't you have a one-on-one?

Hugo Martin 10:30 Uh, because we just, it didn't, it just didn't work out that way. Like-

Joe Rogan 10:34 Do you think, do you anticipate anything like that in the future? Like an add-on or...

Hugo Martin 10:37 Uh, you never know. Like certainly, uh, we'll see. But, but we're really, really proud of this. Like I think what you want to do is you, you got to innovate if, if you want to make something that's really gonna engage people like that, like the whole point is to like give them something to master that they've never seen before. Because if you're just asking me to master a new version of a thing that I already mastered, sure, a lot of people would appreciate that, but you're not really gonna capture like a large audience. So we really created something that was completely unique. And, um, so we're excited that-

Joe Rogan 11:05 Now is there gonna be a death match mode where like all of us can get in a room and fuck each other up?

Hugo Martin 11:10 Uh, no. That-

Joe Rogan 11:11 Jesus Christ, Hugo.

Hugo Martin 11:12 Well...

Joe Rogan 11:12 What are you doing?

Hugo Martin 11:13 (laughs) We, we have, uh, Quake Champions for that.

Joe Rogan 11:16 I know, but we already played Quake Champions. I want to play that. I want to use those weapons.

Hugo Martin 11:21 Well, we-

Joe Rogan 11:21 Play with that guy. Look at this. Is this the multiplayer, Jamie?

Hugo Martin 11:23 This, this is the multiplayer.

Joe Rogan 11:25 Jesus Christ, it looks crazy.

Hugo Martin 11:26 It is nuts. The, dude, you, the, it's, it's kind of based, based on a couple of core pillars of like we needed something that had a lot of drama. We wanted something that had a lot of pacing, like the variations in pacing in the match. And, uh, something with deep strategy. So and, and was primarily innovative, like unlike anything any- anything anybody had played before. And was for like it's a multiplayer for people who love Doom Eternal.

Joe Rogan 11:48 Oh.

Hugo Martin 11:48 So when you play the Doom Eternal single player, you'll, you'll like this.

Joe Rogan 11:51 Right. It did, it looks so incredible, man. I mean-

Hugo Martin 11:53 It's, it's fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 11:55 The graphics are so off the charts.

Hugo Martin 11:57 I just want to play this right now, to be honest with you.

Joe Rogan 11:58 I know. I'm looking at this video.

Hugo Martin 12:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:00 Jamie's playing, uh, showing the video of this guy playing and it's just-

Hugo Martin 12:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:04 It looks incredible. It looks-

Hugo Martin 12:05 So he's, he's the slayer. You're seeing through the slayer right now. And those two demons that he's shooting with the numbers coming out of them, those are the other guys.

Joe Rogan 12:11 Now I don't think most people understand the incredible amount of work that's involved in creating one of these things.

Hugo Martin 12:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:18 When did you guys start on this?

Hugo Martin 12:19 About four years ago.

Joe Rogan 12:21 So, it's been four years of steady work to make something like this happen.

Hugo Martin 12:25 And in nine days, we're gonna, like give it to the world.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Release it.

Hugo Martin 12:29 Yes. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 12:30 Give birth.

Hugo Martin 12:30 ... I'm, I'm shaking. I'm shak-

Joe Rogan 12:32 Are you?

Hugo Martin 12:32 Oh, my God. I'm so nervous.

Joe Rogan 12:33 They just canceled E3.

Hugo Martin 12:34 Yes. Uh-

Joe Rogan 12:35 Everyone's scared of the goddamn coronavirus.

Hugo Martin 12:38 I know. My wife, uh, says I'm gonna be in quarantine at the house for two weeks when I come home.

Joe Rogan 12:42 Because you come here.

Hugo Martin 12:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:43 I don't think it needs to be two weeks. I think it's four days is you start showing ...

Hugo Martin 12:46 (sneezes)

Joe Rogan 12:46 Lookit, you're sniffling already.

Hugo Martin 12:47 (laughs) I'm just nervous.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Psychosomatic.

Hugo Martin 12:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:49 Um, they say that it's four days and you start exhibiting symptoms, so.

Hugo Martin 12:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 12:53 I coughed at the airport and people looked at me like I've, it was, I felt, almost wanted to apologize. I was just clearing my throat and I didn't cover my mouth and everybody was like ...

Joe Rogan 13:01 Mm.

Hugo Martin 13:01 Yeah, it was, it was-

Joe Rogan 13:02 I know. Everybody's on edge.

Hugo Martin 13:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:03 But meanwhile, The Comedy Store was packed last night.

Hugo Martin 13:06 Dude, we went to Pax East last week with the fans. Hun- like lines of fans. And at the beginning everybody was touching elbows. That lasted like 20 minutes and it, we were just high-fiving and-

Joe Rogan 13:15 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 13:15 ... hugging and stuff.

Joe Rogan 13:16 That's how it was at the store last night. A couple guys were like trying to give you knuckles and rub elbows.

Hugo Martin 13:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:19 I'm like, "Get the fuck outta here."

Hugo Martin 13:20 It's just ... We'll-

Joe Rogan 13:21 "We all go down together."

Hugo Martin 13:22 (laughs) That's like-

Joe Rogan 13:22 "Come on, gimme a hug."

Hugo Martin 13:23 Well, they say ... I didn't watch that show yet with that guy that you had, but, uh, 50 and up or something? Or like ...

Joe Rogan 13:29 It's, the real problem is people with respiratory issues, people who are overweight, and, and people who are old. Those are, those are the real problems. Unhealthy people.

Hugo Martin 13:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 13:38 That's, that's the real issue. That's gonna be the real issue. Although Sam Harris did know a guy who's a skier who is 50 who was a- apparently very healthy and very fit, and he is now on a ventilator, and he was in Italy. I don't know the specifics. You know, sometimes ... Look, I've, I've got the flu before and I'm sure you has, have as well, and sometimes what happens is you're worn down from travel, you're worn down maybe from drinking, you're worn down from too much exercise, and then it gets you. And then if you're not, like ... And this is just the common cold. And apparently, the common cold is a type of coronavirus.

Hugo Martin 14:14 I don't, I don't know any-

Joe Rogan 14:14 Um, Google that. Make sure that's true. But I'm, I'm pretty ... I was reading up on coronaviruses last night, I was like, "What?"

Hugo Martin 14:21 So-

Joe Rogan 14:21 Like SARS is a type of coronavirus.

Hugo Martin 14:24 Is this just here now forever? Like this is a part of the world? Like, coronavirus?

Joe Rogan 14:28 It's a good question. Well, Michael Osterholm, who, uh, wrote this book, Deadliest Enemy, and who was on, on, uh, Tuesday, on the podcast Tuesday, he opened up a lot of peoples' eyes as to like, what, what the issue is and what, what, what you can do to prevent it. But those wet markets that they have in China are just bananas, man. With the fucking bats on the tables and ... Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that cause illnesses ranging from the common cold to more severe dis- diseases such as, uh, MERS, uh, sev- or SARS. Uh, a novel coronavirus is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans. So, uh, zoonotic or zoononic, meaning they're transmitted between animals and people. So, what, what's happening is these fucking wet markets. He was detailing how they have chickens that are in one cage and civets that are above the chickens, and the civets are shitting on the chickens, and the chickens are eating the civet shit, and it's like-

Hugo Martin 15:27 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 15:28 It's like, it's just a perfect environment to create a disease that's gonna jump from one species to the next.

Hugo Martin 15:35 That is scary.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Yeah. And he's like, and many of 'em have jumped to humans. I mean, all the major, uh, whether it's avian flu, that's from birds, swine flu, obviously from pigs. They jump from farm animals or from these wet markets to people. Yeah, and they're not gonna stop those wet markets. So, it's like, I, I mean that's how people buy their food which is just crazy. Have you ever seen-

Hugo Martin 15:55 They-

Joe Rogan 15:55 ... the videos and pictures of what they look like over there?

Hugo Martin 15:57 No, that seems scary, though.

Joe Rogan 15:58 What, you think your game is scary?

Hugo Martin 15:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:59 You wanna see, you wanna see what a bat looks like when it's laid out on a table? Apparently, bats are like a common thing to eat. And bro, when you see what a bat looks like with its mouth open, it looks like it belongs in your game.

Hugo Martin 16:10 Oh, that, that would be good, good reference.

Joe Rogan 16:12 We were looking at pictures of 'em yesterday and they have a table laid out. And then, even on, just on the ph- raw concrete, bats laid out with their mouth open.

Hugo Martin 16:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:20 They look cartoonish. They don't even look real. And they have no wings. They got Jamie's oh-my-God-ing over there. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 16:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:25 Look how big these bats ... These are bats without wings. I wanna see. Holy shit.

Hugo Martin 16:30 Holy shit, dude. That looks like a dog.

Joe Rogan 16:31 They do look like dogs. Unless those are dogs. Those might be dogs.

Hugo Martin 16:33 Oh, those are dogs, bro.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Oh. Okay.

Hugo Martin 16:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:35 Jesus. Those are dogs.

Hugo Martin 16:36 That looks like-

Joe Rogan 16:36 Jesus Christ. Those are dogs.

Hugo Martin 16:37 Oh, those are bats.

Joe Rogan 16:38 They look like they're the same thing, though. So, those are bats. So, look at the teeth on the bats.

Hugo Martin 16:41 Yeah, that's really-

Joe Rogan 16:42 Look at that. Look at how they're all, they all have their mouths wide open like they're trying to bite you.

Hugo Martin 16:47 So-

Joe Rogan 16:47 Like, they die trying to kill you.

Hugo Martin 16:49 And they're gonna, they're gonna cook those?

Joe Rogan 16:51 Yes. That's how-

Hugo Martin 16:52 And eat-

Joe Rogan 16:52 That is how this disease got started. Look at that guy smoking cigarettes.

Hugo Martin 16:55 And he's smoking.

Joe Rogan 16:56 But go back to him again. Let me see a big picture of him.

Hugo Martin 16:58 He's, he's, he's triple stacking the, the bad behavior.

Joe Rogan 17:01 Look at him. Stacks of bats, smoking cigarettes.

Hugo Martin 17:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:03 Like, they're eating bats.

Hugo Martin 17:05 (laughs) That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Like, it's just nuts, man. But this is what happens. See, look at all these chickens stacked on top of each other. When you have a billion people ... And look at that guy sleeping on top of that cage.

Hugo Martin 17:14 Oh, that, that, that should be in our game, actually.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Those are bats. It should be. Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 17:17 That'd be a good-

Joe Rogan 17:17 Yeah, like if you're hungry, eat a bat. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 17:19 You could glory kill that thing and get health. That would be good.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Apparently SARS came from bats as well. So, don't eat bats, kids.

Hugo Martin 17:26 I won't.

Joe Rogan 17:26 But they have to because they're starving. I mean, that's one of the things that ... China's doing what they have to do. There's too many people and not enough food. And a lot of what they're eating is just, we wouldn't imagine eating it.

Hugo Martin 17:37 Are y- are you not traveling because of this?

Joe Rogan 17:40 I'm not changing shit.

Hugo Martin 17:41 Yeah, I c- uh, that's ... My wife asks me a lot, like she, she was really concerned about me coming here, and, um, I was like, "Dude, we go- we gotta sell the game." So ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:48 I just got back from Vegas and I was a little nervous while I was over there, but I did everything normal. I went to a workout, I, I, you know, I ate. I'm so ... I went to the fights which is, you know, 20,000 people at the T-Mobile Arena-

Hugo Martin 18:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:01 ... all stuffed into this one area, and everybody was acting normal. Everybody was high-fiving and hugging and fighters, I mean, Jesus Christ, you wanna talk about people exposed.

Hugo Martin 18:09 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:09 You know, they're sweating and they're half-naked.

Hugo Martin 18:12 Tyson Fury was trying to lick that dude's blood. I mean-

Joe Rogan 18:14 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 18:14 ... I, I don't think he's worried.

Joe Rogan 18:15 That was before.

Hugo Martin 18:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:16 (laughs) That was before the big outbreak. Yeah, I, um, I'm worried about old people. I'm worried about my parents, for sure. I'm worried about-

Hugo Martin 18:24 Sure.

Joe Rogan 18:24 I'm worried about people who are overweight. You know, I have friends that are, uh, not healthy, that l- uh, maybe they should lose some weight. And I'm worried about them. I'm worried about people with respiratory problems. You know, um, a good friend of mine has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis.

Hugo Martin 18:37 Oh, that's right.

Joe Rogan 18:38 And he canceled his tour-Shout out to Everlast. He canceled his tour because of that. I mean, but he's got, you know, a real concern. I mean-

Hugo Martin 18:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:46 ... his dau- his daughter has a pretty serious lung condition.

Hugo Martin 18:48 That is really scary.

Joe Rogan 18:49 It's horrible. Yeah. And so, look, you know, he's got no choice. He has to stay home and, and, and play it safe. And I think a lot of people are gonna do that. You know, um, it's gonna be interesting to see how the government handles it. 'Cause one of the things about love or hate Trump, he's willing to do some shit that's ... a lot of people would think would be unpopular, like close down traffic.

Hugo Martin 19:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:08 Close down, uh, flights coming in from others... other countries that are infected, that have high rates of infection. You know, I mean, uh, I wonder what they're gonna do. And something... I think something really radical has to be done to try to st- start this... slow down this, this fucking illness. But I don't know what they can do, honestly.

Hugo Martin 19:25 So, are we waiting for it to... Like, I- I gotta watch the show with this guy. Are we waiting for it to go away? Like, I read a quote that, like, when the weather changes, it'll-

Joe Rogan 19:33 Mm-mm.

Hugo Martin 19:33 ... it'll stop or something?

Joe Rogan 19:35 Mm-mm. That's horse shit. Yeah, uh, Michael Osterholm, uh, set us straight on that. That's nonsense. He's like, "It's not gonna have any effect on it." What happens is, it just runs through the population and, um, people develop immune systems that can handle it. You develop an immunity once you catch it. And for many people, it's just gonna be like a bad cold. For many people, it's gonna be like you're coughing and you're... And you just, you just try to get better. Stay home, drink a lot of fluids, be healthy, do your best, and, uh, eat healthy, and then get out. Y- you're gonna have an immunity to it. And that's gon- what's gonna happen on the other end. I saw one guy, um, he had it, and it was fairly mild. And then they quarantined... And he got over it. He was getting over it and getting better, and then they quarantined him with a bunch of people that also had it, and then he got it even worse.

Hugo Martin 20:20 Oh, boy.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Which was interesting, 'cause I was like, "I wonder how he got it again." And I guess probably his immunity wasn't fully developed yet-

Hugo Martin 20:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:25 ... and then it just overwhelmed his, uh, immune system. Because he was, you know, he's basically quarantined with a bunch of other people that were really, really sick. But he got through it, and he was talking about it. And all these poor people that are stuck on boats.

Hugo Martin 20:37 Oh my God. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:39 Uh, this is gonna kill the cruise ship industry.

Hugo Martin 20:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:41 I guarantee you that.

Hugo Martin 20:42 We just went on vacation and I have to say, traveling and... Like, we went to this vacation spot, the... There's nobody there. It's actually... It's kind of nice, I gotta be honest.

Joe Rogan 20:50 Oh yeah, if you go to Hawaii right now, whoo.

Hugo Martin 20:52 Like-

Joe Rogan 20:52 You got the whole beach to yourself.

Hugo Martin 20:54 We had everything to ourselves.

Joe Rogan 20:55 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 20:55 It was amazing. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:56 I wonder, you know, I wonder, uh, how this is gonna play out. I really do.

Hugo Martin 21:00 We go, like, you know, you're... Even at our hotel, eating at the buffets and stuff. But like, to your point, I'm just like, "Fuck it, what are we gonna do?" Like-

Joe Rogan 21:07 They're closing down buffets. It's one of the things they're doing in Vegas. They're closing down buffets.

Hugo Martin 21:11 Those buffets are huge. I haven't been to Vegas-

Joe Rogan 21:13 No.

Hugo Martin 21:13 ... too many times, but the one time I was there, it had a pretty crazy buffet.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Yeah. I mean, you... All you can eat. Just fucking pig out.

Hugo Martin 21:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Some of those buf- ... But that's also how they do it on a lot of cruise ships. They have buffets.

Hugo Martin 21:23 I only went on one cruise ship, and by the end, I wanted to throw up. Like, oh my God. Look... 'Cause the first day, you're like, "The food's amazing."

Joe Rogan 21:30 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 21:30 But it's so buttery gross and-

Joe Rogan 21:33 It's like being stuck on an apartment building filled with drunks, but you're all on the roof. And if you jump off the side, you're definitely dead.

Hugo Martin 21:40 Yes. And they're-

Joe Rogan 21:41 That's what it's like.

Hugo Martin 21:41 They're-

Joe Rogan 21:41 'Cause-

Hugo Martin 21:41 ... feeding you the fattiest, grossest, but tasty food.

Joe Rogan 21:45 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 21:45 You know? Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Well, if you're looking to get fat, that's your move.

Hugo Martin 21:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:48 Some people are just, "Fuck it, let's go all in." But-

Hugo Martin 21:51 I just recently lost 20 pounds. Uh-

Joe Rogan 21:52 Did you?

Hugo Martin 21:53 Yeah, I was-

Joe Rogan 21:53 What'd you do?

Hugo Martin 21:54 Um, well, my... I was 226 and, uh, that was fun, especially f- I, I, I mentioned earlier, like doing jujitsu, but the- ... My-

Joe Rogan 22:02 Fun just 'cause you could pin people down easier?

Hugo Martin 22:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Extra weight?

Hugo Martin 22:05 More weight to throw around, I guess. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Did you get tired easier, though?

Hugo Martin 22:08 I did. Like, there's definitely been benefits to losing weight that I actually really like. But, uh, my h- my blood pressure and my, uh, cholesterol was really high. So-

Joe Rogan 22:16 What did you do to lose the weight?

Hugo Martin 22:18 Well, I went to a nutri- ... Well, really I gained that weight just from eating like an idiot. Uh, I had really bad eating habits and, uh, I had no idea. Like, I didn't know you weren't supposed to eat a shit ton of pasta before you go to bed. Like, you know. And, and-

Joe Rogan 22:30 (laughs) You, you didn't know?

Hugo Martin 22:31 I-

Joe Rogan 22:31 How old are you?

Hugo Martin 22:31 I- I'm 43. I don't-

Joe Rogan 22:32 How do you not know that?

Hugo Martin 22:33 I f- I make video games. I don't know what the fuck's going on.

Joe Rogan 22:35 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 22:36 So, like... I, I know how to do glory kills.

Joe Rogan 22:39 Listen, man. I woke up this morning with acid reflux. Not really, but like, well, bleh. It felt gross 'cause I, I ate two tins of sardines last night before I went to bed. Yeah, so I'm not smart either.

Hugo Martin 22:50 Uh, th- uh, I went to a nutritionist and she just kind of coached me on, like, basic stuff, and it was remarkable how much weight I lost just by not being, you know, stupid.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Y- you gotta just go to bed hungry.

Hugo Martin 23:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:01 You're way better off going to bed hungry than eating a big meal before you go to bed. But I come home from the comedy store and it's late and no one's home, I just... I've just become a- an idiot. I just start eating.

Hugo Martin 23:10 To... That's exactly-

Joe Rogan 23:11 And then I go right to sleep. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 23:13 I would crunch on the game and, like, be at the office late, come home and t- total... My wife would make something amazing, but I miss dinner and it's like, "I wanna fucking eat. It looks awesome."

Joe Rogan 23:23 It's right there.

Hugo Martin 23:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 23:24 But that made me super fat and, and, uh, like, it, it wasn't very... But I was, I was working out a lot, so it was actually... And doing jujitsu, so it, it, it was fun being of a larger size, but I'm not supposed to be that big. Like, it wasn't good. That-

Joe Rogan 23:36 It's-

Hugo Martin 23:36 My, my numbers are all much better now.

Joe Rogan 23:38 That's great. And you just... The nutritionist, what did she change?

Hugo Martin 23:42 Uh, I basically j- ... I kept a food diary and she read it and just laughed. She's like-

Joe Rogan 23:47 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 23:48 She's like, "You eat like you're 13." I'm like... I was like-

Joe Rogan 23:51 (laughs) Well, I work on things for 13-year-olds.

Hugo Martin 23:54 That- that's it, pretty much.

Joe Rogan 23:55 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 23:55 And, uh, I, I just really... When I was a kid, it was like, "Finish your food. Clean up your plate."

Joe Rogan 24:02 Yep.

Hugo Martin 24:02 "Swipe up every last bit." Watching my dad, he's Argentinian, piles of fucking steak, you know. Like-

Joe Rogan 24:07 Mm.

Hugo Martin 24:07 Just... I thought that's how people ate. And-

Joe Rogan 24:09 That's how you're supposed to eat.

Hugo Martin 24:10 ... yeah, but not at like 11:00 at night, I guess.

Joe Rogan 24:13 Yeah. Uh, I, I just don't think you're supposed to eat and- and then go to sleep. It's just not-

Hugo Martin 24:17 I- I didn't-

Joe Rogan 24:17 ... a smart move.

Hugo Martin 24:17 ... do a vegan thing. I asked her that. Uh, I was like, "Should I not eat cer-" She's like, "No, it's kind of the basic stuff. I eat the- the little bit of all these food groups, and I just eat in moderation." Also, when I moved to Texas, the, uh, Asian food scene there is amazing. And the-

Joe Rogan 24:33 Oh, really?

Hugo Martin 24:34 It's fucking amazing. The-

Joe Rogan 24:35 In Dallas? Like what kind of Asian food?

Hugo Martin 24:37 Vietnamese food is outrageous. Uh, the Taiwanese boof- beef noodle- beef noodle soup is fucking am- which is like Chinese ramen.

Joe Rogan 24:45 That's interesting that it's, uh, in Dallas.

Hugo Martin 24:47 Yeah, I didn't know that either. Uh, Dallas is culturally super diverse.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Dallas is a fucking great city.

Hugo Martin 24:52 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 24:53 It is a great city. I was just there two weeks ago.

Hugo Martin 24:55 The food is-

Joe Rogan 24:55 I love it there.

Hugo Martin 24:56 ... so good. And it-

Joe Rogan 24:57 I love it there.

Hugo Martin 24:57 If it's bad for you, they have perfected it, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 25:00 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 25:00 What- in my first week there, I went to the Texas fair and I had fried pumpkin pie with a scoop of ice cream and hot chocolate, and it was like the best fucking thing I've ever had in my life, but it's so bad for you.

Joe Rogan 25:10 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 25:10 And, uh, so it was just-

Joe Rogan 25:11 Fried pumpkin pie.

Hugo Martin 25:13 (laughs) It was, it was good.

Joe Rogan 25:14 They don't play games in Texas.

Hugo Martin 25:15 (laughs) No, the whole fair is just fried stuff.

Joe Rogan 25:18 Well, fairs are ridiculous.

Hugo Martin 25:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:20 Just going to a fair is ridiculous. Just- you're gonna get fat just walking through the gates.

Hugo Martin 25:25 I- I did, you know, definitely. And then honestly, like, uh, the work was so intense, uh, with- by my own doing. I was so into making Doom and still am, but that- but I had to balance it out. Like, I think I was reaching a milestone of like learning how to eat better and sleep right. Like, I was- I was just acting like I was still in college.

Joe Rogan 25:44 And how many hours a day were you guys working? 'Cause when I was friends with the id guys back- this was like, uh, Quake III before it came out, like way back then I was friends with those guys. And, uh, when I was doing gigs in Dallas, I would go to id Studios and they'd-

Hugo Martin 25:57 They-

Joe Rogan 25:58 ... show me all the stuff. Yeah.

Hugo Martin 25:59 They told me, yeah, it was- it was pretty awesome.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Let's do-

Hugo Martin 26:01 I'm embarrassed that I'm coming here and I'm not good at Quake, so like-

Joe Rogan 26:03 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 26:04 ... I was like, "Shit, he's gonna totally give me garbage."

Joe Rogan 26:07 No, it's okay. You- but you play with a controller. We should tell people. You play with an Xbox controller, which is quite embarrassing.

Hugo Martin 26:12 It is- well, I'm- I'm- I'm pretty good with it though. But-

Joe Rogan 26:15 But how do you not use a mouse and keyboard?

Hugo Martin 26:16 I do sometimes, but I-

Joe Rogan 26:17 That's probably why you're not good at Quake.

Hugo Martin 26:19 (laughs) Well, I- Quake- Jamie and I were bonding over this.

Joe Rogan 26:23 Oh.

Hugo Martin 26:23 When Quake came out, I was in art school and everybody was using Apple products. So-

Joe Rogan 26:27 Right.

Hugo Martin 26:28 ... uh, ve- like literally no one I knew had a PC. Like, one dude in a dorm had a PC and he would go there and he'd turn on Doom and you're like, "Holy shit, this is crazy." But like- I mean, I'm- I was like an Apple guy, hardcore, so I just-

Joe Rogan 26:40 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 26:41 I just missed it, you know, like that boat. But I play now and I'm okay. I play- I like playing, uh, PUBG. I mean, you have to- certain games you have to play, uh, you know, mouse and keyboard, and, uh, like PUBG and stuff like that. But-

Joe Rogan 26:51 Jamie, are there- are computers updated? Is everything updated?

Narrator 26:54 We are ready to go.

Joe Rogan 26:55 We're ready to go.

Hugo Martin 26:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:56 We'll- we'll play afterwards.

Hugo Martin 26:57 No, I'm not very good at all.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Come on, man. You're a fucking- you- you work in the game industry.

Hugo Martin 27:01 I do.

Joe Rogan 27:02 You have to play a little.

Hugo Martin 27:03 I do-

Joe Rogan 27:03 You can't say, "I'm not gonna play because I'm not good."

Hugo Martin 27:05 No, I- I will-

Joe Rogan 27:05 'Cause then you're saying to all these kids out there that are not good, "Don't even start."

Hugo Martin 27:08 Oh, no, I will- I will totally play. I'm just not- uh, we didn't make Quake Champions. That was made by another team.

Joe Rogan 27:13 But-

Narrator 27:13 Well, they did an awesome job.

Hugo Martin 27:14 They did do an awesome job. We- everything that comes out of id is always gonna have a certain-

Joe Rogan 27:18 Cool.

Hugo Martin 27:18 ... level of quality.

Joe Rogan 27:19 So it's a different team at id that made Quake Champions?

Hugo Martin 27:21 Yes, it was outsourced. Uh, managed by Tim Willits and then outsourced to, I believe, Saber and, uh-

Joe Rogan 27:26 So is Willits with them now? Where is Willits?

Hugo Martin 27:28 Uh, Willits, I believe, is with them, but I'm gonna probably get that wrong.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Shout out to Tim. How are you, buddy?

Hugo Martin 27:33 Yes, he-

Joe Rogan 27:33 I haven't seen that guy in forever.

Hugo Martin 27:35 And- and, uh, he left, uh, the- couple months ago, I think. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 27:40 So he's retired? Drinking Mai Tais-

Hugo Martin 27:41 No, he's-

Joe Rogan 27:41 ... on the beach?

Hugo Martin 27:42 He's with them now.

Joe Rogan 27:43 Oh, okay.

Hugo Martin 27:43 Yeah, like doing something awesome. I don't-

Joe Rogan 27:46 Yeah?

Hugo Martin 27:46 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 27:47 Can't tell us?

Hugo Martin 27:48 I don't even know, to be honest. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:50 Okay. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 27:50 Like, there's- there's f- I just head down making Doom.

Joe Rogan 27:52 I get it. So how many days a week are you guys working? When you- when you're in crunch time, are you working six, seven days a week on this thing?

Hugo Martin 27:59 Um, it's not really crunch. It's funny, I- I- I prepared for this interview. I watched all your video game interviews and I know that crunch comes up a lot. But like, the- the- the, uh, it's- this is gonna sound hokey, it's- I've- it's like a lifestyle. Like I- I live and breathe this, you know? Like, no one makes me stay at the office. And even when I come home, I- I see my kids, I do my thing, and then I just w- do research. Like, it sounds ridiculous, uh, not- not unlike my diet, but like my research is that of a 13-year-old. Like, I play fucking video games and read comic books and just engross myself in pop culture, because essentially what we do is make pop culture- content for- that's pop culture content, you know?

Joe Rogan 28:40 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 28:40 Uh, that didn't make sense. But the- the-

Joe Rogan 28:42 No, it makes sense. I know what you're saying.

Hugo Martin 28:43 (laughs) So you just have to like, you know, uh, ingest a ton of it, which means that it's 24/7. I mean, I get- I get up really early. I try to do the exercise thing. I- I couldn't really fit in going to do any kind of training or anything in the afternoons 'cause it was just family and stuff, so I try to do that in the mornings. And then I come home and, uh, put the kids to school, and then I have like about two hours where there- the house is empty and I'll just play games, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:07 Oh, so you're training real early then?

Hugo Martin 29:09 I do- it's horrible, but I do the 6:00 AM one, which is fucking holy shit, dude.

Joe Rogan 29:13 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 29:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 So you're up at 5:00, shove something in your mouth real quick.

Hugo Martin 29:17 No, not anything. I made that mistake. I drank a protein shake once before training, that was a fucking disaster. Holy shit. So I don't need anything. I drink water. I didn't even know what the hell I was doing. Again, I didn't know- knew nothing of nutrition. So I was like, "It's 5:30 and I gotta be healthy, I'm gonna drink this." And like-

Joe Rogan 29:32 Yeah, you can't train.

Hugo Martin 29:33 Neon belly, I'm like, "Dude, this is-"

Joe Rogan 29:34 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 29:34 "We're gonna have a serious fucking problem in like two seconds." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:37 Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, the same thing with yoga, hot yoga. I've tried to do it after breakfast. You literally can't do it. You'll want to throw up.

Hugo Martin 29:44 I actually- I- I'm tired too. Like, uh, so I'm- I'm pretty much just water, you know? And- and, uh, it's only an hour, so I could- I could kind of get through it. I don't know if this, uh, BCAs are helping or not, but I- I sometimes put that in my water just 'cause other people-

Joe Rogan 29:59 BCAAs, branched-chain amino acids.

Hugo Martin 30:01 Is that good?

Joe Rogan 30:01 Talk about that. Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah. Um, good before you train and after you train.

Hugo Martin 30:06 Yeah, and-

Joe Rogan 30:06 Yeah, depending upon who you ask, you know, there's different protocols.

Hugo Martin 30:09 Just for a little extra juice, you know, I don't know, like to- to help, uh, 'cause I get a lot of muscle strains, uh, so I- I just-

Joe Rogan 30:16 Strains?

Hugo Martin 30:17 Yeah, like in my calves and stuff.

Joe Rogan 30:18 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 30:18 Like in-

Joe Rogan 30:19 Like cramps? Is that what you're saying?

Hugo Martin 30:20 I guess.

Joe Rogan 30:21 Are you taking any electrolytes?

Hugo Martin 30:23 ... I'm, I'm, they're going away because I'm hydrating. That was another thing the nutritionist said was that I was probably dehydrated-

Joe Rogan 30:29 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 30:29 ... way, way more than I realized.

Joe Rogan 30:30 Sure.

Hugo Martin 30:31 So I'm drinking water, like, and it's actually working. Like, I actually feel like I'm, I'm getting less of those, and I'm also hungry less. Like, one of her things was that, uh, uh, probably some of what my cravings are for food is that I'm actually thirsty. So I-

Joe Rogan 30:44 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 30:44 ... would, uh, now I, like, chug a big glass of water. And the cravings do kind of, those 11 o'clock cravings kind of subside a little bit. Um, but yes, I, I try to do it in the mornings. It's just super, super rough.

Joe Rogan 30:56 Yeah, over the last couple of weeks, uh, last week in particular, I've been drinking a shitload of water, just a shit... Like last time, last night at The Comedy Store, I must have drank seven bottles of water, which is great until I got home. I got up to pee three times-

Hugo Martin 31:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:10 ... in the middle of the night last night. I'm like, "Fuck."

Hugo Martin 31:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 31:12 I'd wake up, it's like 3:00 in the morning, I'm like, "Goddammit, I, can I hold it in? No, shit." And I just kept doing it, man. Three times I got up to pee.

Hugo Martin 31:19 I'm, I, so you would agree that just, I mean, obviously, right, just drinking should-

Joe Rogan 31:23 Drink a shit ton of water, but I believe in electrolytes. I think electrolytes are very important, and I think you should find, uh, a good company that, you know, sells electrolytes so you can pour into your water and will make a difference.

Hugo Martin 31:33 Do you have one that you would recommend?

Joe Rogan 31:34 I use Liquid IV. It's a sponsor of the podcast, um, just, uh, to, for full disclosure. But I actually enjoy it and even if it wasn't a sponsor, I would absolutely use it. It tastes good. You pour it in there. It's got, like, salt, a little bit of sugar, and a lot of electrolytes, and it's just fucking really good for you.

Hugo Martin 31:51 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 31:52 It's supposed to rehydrate you twice as fast as water itself.

Hugo Martin 31:56 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 31:56 Twice as well as water itself. Yeah.

Hugo Martin 31:59 That's, that's awesome.

Joe Rogan 31:59 Yeah, so I pour one of those into, uh, into a bottle. Uh, I like to do that before I work out, you know? It's also something that gives you, like, a, you know, little bit of calories. Not much, but...

Hugo Martin 32:09 Do you do anything during? Like is that...

Joe Rogan 32:12 Just water.

Hugo Martin 32:13 Just so, the electrolyte stuff or the BCAAs before or after, but not during?

Joe Rogan 32:18 I don't do it. I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that. I, but I don't, no.

Hugo Martin 32:21 (laughs) I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 32:22 The most I ever do is if I'm training really hard, like if I'm doing something really crazy, then I'll, then I'll drink, uh, something with electrolytes while I'm working out, like a Gatorade or a Powerade or something like that just to try to replenish-

Hugo Martin 32:34 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:34 ... my glucose levels.

Hugo Martin 32:36 Is that good to drink Gatorade while you're doing exercise?

Joe Rogan 32:39 Sure.

Hugo Martin 32:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:39 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 32:39 'Cause I feel-

Joe Rogan 32:40 Not bad.

Hugo Martin 32:40 ... like it is. Like when-

Joe Rogan 32:41 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 32:41 ... I'm pretty exhausted-

Joe Rogan 32:42 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 32:42 ... I have to be honest, they have little bottles of Gatorade.

Joe Rogan 32:43 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 32:44 I do get energy.

Joe Rogan 32:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a, I mean, there's a reason why athletes dr- you drink it.

Hugo Martin 32:48 That's-

Joe Rogan 32:49 They're not assholes.

Hugo Martin 32:49 That's true.

Joe Rogan 32:50 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 32:50 I, I don't know. They, they're always drinking the, it's on, the, it's the logo's on the cup, but I'm like, "Is that like some kind of special power?"

Joe Rogan 32:55 The, the issue with things like Gatorade or Powerade or any of those, you know, "sports drinks" air quotes-

Hugo Martin 33:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:00 ... is if you're not doing sports, you shouldn't be drinking them.

Hugo Martin 33:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:03 It's like if you're just laying around drinking Gatorade, there's a fuckload of sugar in that shit. But if you're running hills or if you're rucking with like a 50-pound backpack on and you're goddamn exhausted, well, if you drink one of those things, it'll give you some energy and it'll replenish some electrolytes and give your body some glucose. There's some benefits to that stuff. It's just when to use it and where and why you use it is what's-

Hugo Martin 33:23 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 33:24 ... important. But there's definitely benefits to taking those, uh, sports drinks.

Hugo Martin 33:28 Your, your facility out there is fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 33:31 It's pretty dope. I love it.

Hugo Martin 33:32 Like you, you, the bats thing? That, those-

Joe Rogan 33:33 Oh, the clubs, club bells? Yeah.

Hugo Martin 33:35 That's pretty crazy.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 33:36 I've, I've never done any kettlebells or... I need to, though, 'cause I don't know about my-

Joe Rogan 33:39 I could show you some of the stuff. It's pretty easy. If you have like a lightweight kettlebell, you could learn it. Y- you really should start with a lightweight one so you don't hurt yourself.

Hugo Martin 33:46 Who's the guy who, uh, works for you? Uh, he's got the beard. I met him first. Uh-

Joe Rogan 33:50 Taylor?

Hugo Martin 33:51 Taylor, I think. He has a black T-shirt on.

Joe Rogan 33:53 Jeff?

Hugo Martin 33:54 Yeah, Jeff.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Is it Jeff?

Hugo Martin 33:55 And I shook his hand and I was like, "My, my goodness, I think you've been tossing around (laughs) like even-"

Joe Rogan 34:00 He's just corn-fed.

Hugo Martin 34:01 Seriously, it was like-

Joe Rogan 34:02 He's a big old fella.

Hugo Martin 34:03 You've been doing something, dude.

Joe Rogan 34:04 Yeah, they're big fellas. Um, the, um, the, the great thing about kettlebells or club bells, those clubs, is that you're using (sniffs) your whole body. You know, that's the thing about those things. It-

Hugo Martin 34:14 It hurts.

Joe Rogan 34:14 ... actually enhances your athletic ability. It enhances your ability to do sports, particularly jujitsu. Like, things like Turkish get-ups. You ever do Turkish get-ups?

Hugo Martin 34:23 I, I was joking with my friend yesterday, so no. Uh, I've seen them. I think if you put the word Turkish in front of anything, it usually means it's pretty gnarly, so like...

Joe Rogan 34:31 (laughs) Turkish sauna.

Hugo Martin 34:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:32 Turkish bath, yeah.

Hugo Martin 34:33 Turkish prison, like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:34 Right, right.

Hugo Martin 34:35 Like, like-

Joe Rogan 34:35 Midnight Express, wasn't that a Turkish prison?

Hugo Martin 34:37 Yes.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 34:37 That is the magnifier for everything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:40 Turkish, that's funny. Turkish wrestling. Yeah, true. Right.

Hugo Martin 34:43 But, but, uh, I've never done one, but, uh, that, it, they look pretty serious.

Joe Rogan 34:47 They're legit. Turkish get-up's one of my favorite exercises 'cause it's not romantic, it doesn't give you big pecs, but man, for jujitsu, it's a real, a real game changer.

Hugo Martin 34:56 And that's with the one leg, like you have one leg out, one leg...

Joe Rogan 34:59 Well, you start off on your back. (clears throat) You start off laying on your back. You, you press the kettlebell up and then you sit up. And then once you sit up, you get one leg under you and then you go up and then you go all the way up, stand straight up, and then drop all the way back down.

Hugo Martin 35:12 You should watch a video. Uh, ideally you should find a coach and have someone correct all your form so that you have it down and then you can do it on your own. But the beautiful thing about that is like you could have a kettlebell and you sit in your office and just for five minutes, just do Turkish get-ups for five minutes and do it a couple times a day and it'll change your body. That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 35:31 It'll change your core strength and your shoulder strength and your shoulder stability because you got this thing overhead at the end of it and then you're dropping it back down and you're, you know, resting your body back down, then starting all over again. It's a very difficult exercise.

Hugo Martin 35:45 I'm, uh, I think working with someone is what I need to do 'cause at, at 43, I'm finding that, like, I k- I injure myself 'cause I'm not exercising correctly. I, I-

Joe Rogan 35:55 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 35:55 ... clearly I'm not doing anything correctly. But the, the, uh, like I'll, I'll try to do some extra stuff outside of training to, you know, work on things and, uh, there's always something. And then when you get, when I get something, it fucks everything up for months. Like-

Joe Rogan 36:08 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 36:08 ... I did something to my bicep and I couldn't do half the shit I needed to do, you know, in, in the morning, uh, training. Like, it, it was a pain in the ass. So actually I, I'm not really doing anything anymore. I do just some basic simple shit, but like I don't-

Joe Rogan 36:21 Basic simple shit is fine. Like just body weight squats, chin-ups, push-ups, stuff like that.

Hugo Martin 36:26 D- that's it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Oh, that stuff's real good for you. The thing is like you're doing something right 'cause you got a purple belt, right?

Hugo Martin 36:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 36:33 And so you, congratulations on that.

Hugo Martin 36:34 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 36:34 But also, you know, you're doing jujitsu. That's a fucking hard thing to do, man. It's like-

Hugo Martin 36:39 I gotta do something.

Joe Rogan 36:41 ... you beat your body up.

Hugo Martin 36:41 'Cause when I wasn't doing it, I got the, the kids and, uh, the work because the, you know, it is a lifestyle, but it's also a lifestyle that involves sitting on your ass staring at a TV screen.

Joe Rogan 36:50 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 36:50 Uh-

Joe Rogan 36:50 What kind of, um, chairs do you guys sit in to keep you from getting back pains and stuff?

Hugo Martin 36:54 I don't really sit that much, like for me-

Joe Rogan 36:56 Standing desk?

Hugo Martin 36:56 No, I'm just walking the whole fucking time, like just walking to this thing, walking to that thing, and then we just have pretty basic desks, but a lot of people do standing desks, uh, for sure. And, and, um, I like those a lot too. Uh, the, uh, I don't have one, but 'cause again, I don't really sit anywhere specific. I have an office, but I'm never in it. Um, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:13 You're always moving around talking to different people about this and that.

Hugo Martin 37:16 Which is good 'cause I, when I sit for too long, my lower back, I got like a bulge in, in the, in the s- lower back area. I don't know. Uh, and if I sit too much, it kind of bug, it kind of bugs me. But, um...

Joe Rogan 37:27 Everyone who does jujitsu has something going on with their back.

Hugo Martin 37:30 Yeah, I'm a little worried about that 'cause I found a thing that I-... you, you get the kids and before that was like, you know, roughhousing with 'em and you're fucking breathing heavy. And it's just like, "Shit, dude."

Joe Rogan 37:40 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 37:40 And so I'm like, "What can I do?" I'm like, "I don't fucking like basketball. I think running sucks." Like, I don't wanna just work out, like, you know. So I, I, I did this and it became a fun, engaging way to get healthy, like-

Joe Rogan 37:53 It's a game.

Hugo Martin 37:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:54 You know, you're playing a game.

Hugo Martin 37:55 The, it's all, like, it cleans up everything.

Joe Rogan 37:57 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 37:58 Like, I can't eat shitty food 'cause I'm gonna feel like shit on the mat.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Right. You're gonna, yeah, you need to train hard.

Hugo Martin 38:02 So, like, it, it had this ripple effect in my life-

Joe Rogan 38:04 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 38:05 ... that was fucking amazing.

Joe Rogan 38:06 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 38:07 And, and, uh, and a really healthy pursuit. But the back thing, uh, is that guaranteed? That like-

Joe Rogan 38:13 Well, there's things you can do to, to mitigate it. And I'll, I'll show you some of the things that we have here at the, a machine called the Reverse Hyper. Unfortunately, this just came up on a podcast yesterday as well. Reverse Hyper machine, which is a great machine for strengthening your lower back. And then there's, uh, one of my sponsors is Teeter. They make those inversion tables. And they have this thing called the DEXX and it's like, you, you bend over... It's a D-E-X-X? Is that what it is?

Narrator 38:36 It's 1X.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Just 1X?

Narrator 38:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:37 And you bend over at the waist and it just, like, decompresses your spine and relaxes everything.

Hugo Martin 38:41 To, to-

Joe Rogan 38:42 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 38:42 ... sep- like the-

Joe Rogan 38:43 I'll show it to you afterwards. I'll show it to you afterwards.

Hugo Martin 38:45 Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I, I wanna, I wanna keep doing it for, for health reasons, right?

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah. No, for sure.

Hugo Martin 38:49 Like, I found something that is, is a good... It add, it adds something to my life in a healthy way. So-

Joe Rogan 38:54 Yeah, I love it. It's, it's awesome, but it does beat you up.

Hugo Martin 38:56 Are you s-

Joe Rogan 38:57 There's no if, ands, or buts about it.

Hugo Martin 38:58 I've seen you, uh, wearing your gi in some pictures. Are you wearing your gi again and training more with your gi? Are, did you always train with your gi or like-

Joe Rogan 39:05 Well, I trained with the gi and no gi. I, I have a black belt in both.

Hugo Martin 39:09 I, I know, but like, I, I th- it seemed... I could be completely wrong. It seemed like you were doing a lot of no gi for a while.

Joe Rogan 39:13 A lot of no gi, yeah, lately.

Hugo Martin 39:15 But lately, it seems like you're wearing the gi again. But I could be completely wrong.

Joe Rogan 39:18 No, I, I, I, I think both are good. I think there's nothing wrong with the gi. What the gi teaches you is defensive, uh, postures. But what it teaches you defensive techniques better because you can't pull out of everything. So you have to do everything with proper technique. You can't just-

Hugo Martin 39:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:33 'Cause when everything gets slippery and it's no gi, you can just pull out of stuff.

Hugo Martin 39:36 Sure.

Joe Rogan 39:36 But you can't do that if someone has a hold of your, your sleeves and they're, got their fists fully wrapped in there. Like, you're not getting out and then you're just gonna get deeper in. You gotta use technique. You gotta use the, the proper defense.

Hugo Martin 39:48 Do you have a preference or just, it's all good?

Joe Rogan 39:50 I think both are good. I think both are good. Look, if you live in a place where people are wearing winter coats, learning how to fight with a gi is great.

Hugo Martin 39:57 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:57 'Cause, you know, you grab a coat. I mean, a, a coat is like a weapon that a person's wearing on them. Like, you use their own coat against them.

Hugo Martin 40:04 I, I saw a great, uh, uh, uh, podcast clip with you and, and, uh, a guy Richie, and you were staring at his tie and you were, like, salivating 'cause-

Joe Rogan 40:13 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 40:13 Yeah, my thing with ties. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:15 I tell people that if you have a tie, you should have like a Velcro thing in the back. Just take a nice tie, put it on, tighten it up, and then snip the back. And then sew in some Velcro-

Hugo Martin 40:24 So fww.

Joe Rogan 40:25 ... that seals up like this so that if, you could just, someone yanks on your neck, it just pulls that tie off.

Hugo Martin 40:29 Yes. That's the, the-

Joe Rogan 40:30 That's why I'm paranoid.

Hugo Martin 40:32 (laughs) Totally.

Joe Rogan 40:32 But, I mean, your collar itself, right? Like-

Hugo Martin 40:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:34 ... good shirt collar, you could choke someone with that. You know, you can Ezekiel choke with that.

Hugo Martin 40:40 I like the community-

Joe Rogan 40:40 With your sleeves, you could use your own sleeves. You can, I mean, you could collar choke on someone, one of those chokes with a good, like, stiff dress shirt. You can get in there pretty deep.

Hugo Martin 40:50 Th- uh, c- uh, a collar choke on somebody with a, (laughs) with a dress shirt on, that would be pretty sick.

Joe Rogan 40:54 You totally could.

Hugo Martin 40:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:55 With a, but with a jacket, like a leather coat, that person's a dead man. Like, if you had a street fight with a judo player and you're wearing a leather jacket, good luck.

Hugo Martin 41:04 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:04 You're gonna get thrown on your head.

Hugo Martin 41:05 Our head instructor does a lot of judo stuff and his fucking grip is-

Joe Rogan 41:09 Oh, my God.

Hugo Martin 41:09 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Yeah, they have crazy core strength too. Those guys have crazy upper body and core strength 'cause they're so used to just, "Uh."

Hugo Martin 41:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:17 Everything is throwing you and...

Hugo Martin 41:19 But you, like, when they're demoing and they grab your collar-

Joe Rogan 41:21 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 41:21 ... and you're just like, "What the fuck, dude?"

Joe Rogan 41:23 I know.

Hugo Martin 41:23 Like, "I'll never get this off." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:25 Hand strength.

Hugo Martin 41:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:26 Yeah, a lot of them what they do is they take gis or towels and they throw it over a chin-up bar and they do chin-ups by just holding onto the towel or holding onto the gi.

Hugo Martin 41:34 There's a wiry... Like, every muscle is, like, taught with those guys.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 41:40 You know?

Joe Rogan 41:40 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 41:41 Like, it's crazy. Even if they look skinny, like, you could s- you could ta- you, like, they grab ahold of you and you're like, "Holy shit, dude."

Joe Rogan 41:47 Well, you look at their hands and you see their knuckles are all inflamed.

Hugo Martin 41:50 Oh, my God. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Every knuckle, like, sticks out that far. That's, you see it a lot with jujitsu guys as well.

Hugo Martin 41:54 That's the tru- like, the ears, totally telltale sign, don't fuck with that guy.

Joe Rogan 41:58 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 41:59 But if the knuckles are fucked up, you should just do-

Joe Rogan 42:01 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 42:01 ... whatever that person says. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:03 Like-

Hugo Martin 42:03 Have you seen Megaton Diaz's hands?

Joe Rogan 42:05 Dude, holy shit.

Hugo Martin 42:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:06 They're like... I mean- See if you can find a, an image of Megaton Diaz.

Hugo Martin 42:11 Is that arthritis? Is that what that is?

Joe Rogan 42:12 Yeah. That ain't good. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 42:14 So is he like... (laughs) Is... So he's in p- he's in pain?

Joe Rogan 42:19 Well, I want... I don't know. I mean, you'd have to ask him. But God damn, I'd... Dude, that guy will s- rip your neck right off.

Hugo Martin 42:26 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 42:26 Like a, one of them Steven Seagal movies. "Ha." Like, but he could do it for real.

Hugo Martin 42:29 Like-

Joe Rogan 42:30 Like Road House.

Hugo Martin 42:30 I was just gonna say that. That, but dude... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:32 Yes. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 42:33 That's like one of my favorite movies. Like, that scene where he does that and then he's te- that guy, that bad guy is fucking crazy. Like, he's just, "I used to fight guys like you."

Joe Rogan 42:41 "Fight guys like you in prison." Yeah, like, "Oh, my God."

Hugo Martin 42:42 I remember being a kid and being like, "Holy Jesus God."

Joe Rogan 42:45 That movie's so good in all the worst ways.

Hugo Martin 42:47 That-

Joe Rogan 42:47 Dude, look at Megaton Diaz's hands.

Hugo Martin 42:49 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 42:49 Look at his knuckles.

Hugo Martin 42:50 So-

Joe Rogan 42:51 That's just one image of him. There's a bunch of images of him with his knuckles.

Hugo Martin 42:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 42:54 His hands are just gnarly. And that, I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of, uh, jujitsu guys like that.

Hugo Martin 42:59 You know, what is so... Uh, it's been said a million times, they are also, uh, the community around it is, uh, that's another part that I really fell in love with 'cause it's, it's like dad jitsu where I go. Like, we all wanna get in shape. And there's younger guys who are really athletic and old... We have, uh, one woman who's 72 'cause she's, her son is there and her son's a fucking beast and he fucking did this to me. But the, the, uh, the... It's just awesome. Like, we're all trying to get healthy and we're learning shit and we're helping each other. Like, it's fucking-

Joe Rogan 43:27 That's great.

Hugo Martin 43:27 Yeah, it's fucking great, dude. I, I love it.

Joe Rogan 43:29 Yeah, it's a, it's an awesome way to exercise. I'm, I'm wondering if one day they're going to be able to figure out some sort of a virtual reality learning game. That's one of the things that I talked with Carmack about. And I was like, I see... 'Cause Carmack, uh, has done some martial arts himself and I was like, I see... He's actually very good at judo and jujitsu.

Hugo Martin 43:47 He is?

Joe Rogan 43:47 And he's really talented.

Hugo Martin 43:47 Apparently he choked somebody out at the office once. I think the person asked for it, but I, there's some-

Joe Rogan 43:52 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 43:53 ... story of like-... they wanted to see if Jon could do it, and he was like, "Okay." And just like that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:57 (laughs) Like a robot, "Okay. I'll choke you out now."

Narrator 43:59 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 44:00 I, I spoke, I worked, I overlapped with him by, like, a month and he said one thing to me, and it was pretty cool. He told me not to put grates in the game because they don't look good. And I was like, "Yes, sir. That will never happen."

Joe Rogan 44:12 Grates?

Hugo Martin 44:13 Uh, something to do-

Joe Rogan 44:14 Like, like running on, ksh, ksh. Like grates that you would run on?

Hugo Martin 44:16 Something with grates when you look at them at an angle, they, like, do-

Joe Rogan 44:19 Oh.

Hugo Martin 44:20 All, all the tech guys right now are like, "Jesus, Hugo." Like it's very specific. But yeah, he just told me not to do that and, and I was like, "I will not."

Joe Rogan 44:27 That's all he told you?

Hugo Martin 44:28 Yes.

Joe Rogan 44:28 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 44:28 He's super nice. You know, I didn't know-

Joe Rogan 44:30 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 44:30 ... I didn't know what to say to him, you know. Like, I had no reason, I didn't wanna bother him.

Joe Rogan 44:33 Look it, that's me and him.

Hugo Martin 44:34 That is awesome. Yeah. He, he is, the dude's legit.

Joe Rogan 44:38 Yes.

Hugo Martin 44:38 Uh, uh, the founders of id, w- John Romero, that guy, like, I mean, I really feel like we're standing on the shoulders of geniuses when we make this game. Like, the, a lot of what makes Doom Eternal good is, is what they did in their game. Like the-

Joe Rogan 44:52 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 44:53 ... the rocket launcher is such a well-balanced weapon in the original Doom game, and we took a lot of inspiration from that. And the fucking characters are so well designed, the Pinky and the Cacodemon and the sounds they make. The game still holds up to this day.

Joe Rogan 45:04 Yeah. It does.

Hugo Martin 45:05 Like straight fucking legit geniuses-

Joe Rogan 45:08 Even with the clunky old school graphics it's still very immersive.

Hugo Martin 45:12 It, it actually adds to the charm 'cause when you look at it now, it just looks like a fucked up Saturday morning cartoon.

Joe Rogan 45:17 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 45:17 Seriously, it's like something they would make on Adult Swim, you know. Uh-

Joe Rogan 45:20 Yeah, well Quake 1 became a big hit even after Quake 2 and Quake 3. A lot of the guys went back to Quake 1-

Hugo Martin 45:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:27 ... because it was like a faster game, and it was like, and a lot of times guys actually cut all the textures out anyway.

Hugo Martin 45:34 Yeah, so they could see everything.

Joe Rogan 45:35 Yeah, which is really weird.

Hugo Martin 45:36 I just last year played, uh, through Quake 1 single player and Quake 2 single player campaign, uh, with mouse and keyboard.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Man.

Hugo Martin 45:42 Yes, you would be very proud. But I didn't play the multiplayer. But, uh, the, I, I actually am going to, uh, just become awesome at Quake Champions. I-

Joe Rogan 45:51 Really? Let's start-

Hugo Martin 45:52 So-

Joe Rogan 45:52 ... today.

Hugo Martin 45:53 I, I'm down.

Joe Rogan 45:54 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 45:54 V- very often part of my research, like, when I play is to, I have to achieve, uh, I don't wanna s- like, I have to reach, uh, mastery in a game to under- to, to find the fun.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 46:06 Like part of the research, uh, that you have to do when you're designing a game and when you play other games i- i- to, to remain, to, so that we understand like how other games are working, uh, successfully or not is to play them long enough to achieve mastery so you really f- you feel that addiction, you feel that engagement-

Joe Rogan 46:21 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 46:21 ... level and you're like, "Okay, I know how they did this. I know, I know what I'm feeling right now." So-

Joe Rogan 46:25 Do you bring in, do you take like professional gamers and bring them in for-

Hugo Martin 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 ... consultation and say, "How do you, how do you feel about this?" And-

Hugo Martin 46:33 Uh, absolutely. We watch and certainly we talk to them, but it's, it's dangerous because if you, so, so absolutely. Uh, but it's kind of like would you want Michael Jordan designing the next sports game. Like it's kind of, like he can tell you, he, it's so- sort of like the, the guy who builds the race car might not be the best guy to drive it. Like-

Joe Rogan 46:51 Well hold on. Th- th- here's what's wrong with that analogy. You're talking about Michael Jordan in a game. I'm talking about game players.

Hugo Martin 46:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:59 So if you bring in game players to tell you about a game it's a good idea. Bringing Michael Jordan to tell you how to play a video game based on basketball, probably not the best idea.

Hugo Martin 47:07 No, definitely not. We, we do. We, we talk to them. Uh, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 47:10 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 47:10 But, what point I was making was just that like y- you could fall into a little bit of a trap. Uh, it's absolutely part of the process. It's the smart thing to do. Again, like, if you're building a race car you go talk to race car drivers-

Joe Rogan 47:22 Right.

Hugo Martin 47:22 ... and say like, "How does it feel? What do you think?" Like, "Well, this is loose. That feels odd." "Okay, we'll go fix it." You know?

Joe Rogan 47:27 So how does a game like Doom Eternal start? Does it start w- it starts with a meeting, you say, "Hey, we are thinking about doing this. What do you think?" And then how does it get the green light? How does a game like that get going? Were you there from the very beginning?

Hugo Martin 47:40 We have, yes. We have a green light. I've been there for seven, eight years now.

Joe Rogan 47:43 So what happens?

Hugo Martin 47:44 We have a green light process where we put together an overall idea, Marty and myself, you know, work very closely. Marty is the studio director and executive producer of the game.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Shout out to Marty.

Hugo Martin 47:54 He's awesome. He's, he's the boss. He is the shit. Um-

Joe Rogan 47:57 So what you guys say, like someone comes up with a con- so what are we gonna do for our next game?

Hugo Martin 48:02 We, we talk.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Okay.

Hugo Martin 48:03 Like it's a, you know, making games is, is fucking awesome. Like it's, it is. It's the fucking coolest. Like I can't believe that this is my job. Like it's-

Joe Rogan 48:11 That's awesome.

Hugo Martin 48:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:12 That's, that's what everyone wants in life.

Hugo Martin 48:14 There's, you, you stick a dynamite and a crowbar wouldn't get rid of me and, and fucking id Software. Like I can't get enough of making Doom games, but-

Joe Rogan 48:21 But you hit the jack- the jackpot. It's like what people want to do for a living is do something where you, you go to work and you're like, "I can't believe this is my job."

Hugo Martin 48:28 Oh, ev- so that's why when I go to play and to do the work I'm like, "I'm not fucking working."

Joe Rogan 48:34 Right.

Hugo Martin 48:34 Like seriously. You know?

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 48:35 Like-

Joe Rogan 48:36 That's awesome.

Hugo Martin 48:36 ... so, uh, the, which can get a little out of hand I guess sometimes. But the, the, uh, in terms of like balance and like doing other things and like get up and exercise or do something.

Joe Rogan 48:46 Right.

Hugo Martin 48:46 Um, but, uh, yeah. Me and Marty, we talk, uh, quite a bit and, and it's, uh, it's, it's commercial art. You know, it- it's, it's, uh, business and art and, and creativity coming together and we have a schedule and, and we have to work out the budgets and stuff like that. But ultimately we begin with like a conversation about like what it is we want to do. We're, we're talking all the time, he and I, about stuff. And then we talk to other, you know, people on the team. But essentially it begins with the, the executive producer and the director of the project getting together and talking. Then we, we work very closely with our publisher. And you start to formulate a, a plan and, and we had a plan and a good one for Doom Eternal. And, um, it's cool because we just recently had a meeting with, uh, our publisher where we were able to bring up some of the things that we talked about three years ago, and they are working now. Which is a good sign. Like you are pivoting a lot during development for sure. Like, "Okay, that didn't work. Let's try something else." But-

Joe Rogan 49:39 And what, what do you base it on? It didn't feel fun to do or-

Hugo Martin 49:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:42 ... it didn't look cool?

Hugo Martin 49:44 You, you, we call it just steering into things. You, go that feels good, steer into that. That feels good, steer into that. You're always steering into the fun. Like you let the game tell you what it wants once there's enough of it on the table to, to, you know, to judge.

Joe Rogan 49:56 So what are the first processes? Like when you s- say okay, you got the green light. It's time to make a game. What's the first things that get done? Is it design? Do you sort of design what the players look like? Is it the coding?

Hugo Martin 50:07 Uh, I've ... It's like everything. I mean, they begin the engine, uh, all the different process.

Joe Rogan 50:12 Is it a unique engine? Are you using an existing engine?

Hugo Martin 50:15 The ... And this is v- very good questions for Marty, the executive producer, but yes, they, they, uh, they, they begin making the engine based on, uh, what they wanna do next and, and the goals there. And that has to, like ... The, the, this is the engine of the race car, and we're discussing the kind of race car we want to make, so.

Joe Rogan 50:30 So, we should pl- explain to people what we're talking about. We're talking about a three-D engine that's-

Hugo Martin 50:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 50:34 Oftentimes, what, what happens is, like, say, another video game can license your three-D engine and use it with different graphics to, to make other games.

Hugo Martin 50:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 50:45 And that's a common thing.

Hugo Martin 50:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 50:47 The three-D engine is what we're talking about, which is every game has a different feel. It's like some people, like, when, during the Quake days, some people were really into Unreal, right? The ... Remember that game?

Hugo Martin 50:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Epic Games? And they were like, "This game has a different engine. I love the way this engine feels."

Hugo Martin 51:04 Yes.

Joe Rogan 51:05 You know? 'Cause they all have different sort of physics. Yeah.

Hugo Martin 51:08 Carmack's made some good fucking engines. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Oh my God, did he.

Hugo Martin 51:11 He- he's a smart guy.

Joe Rogan 51:12 Well, he recognized the balance of speed to, like, like, real world physics versus the s- sort of cartoonish shit. Like, what's, what's the fun balance? It seems like Quake III was, like, a really fun balance, whereas Quake II was a little slower. Quake 1 was way crazier, way faster, but wasn't ... didn't look as cool.

Hugo Martin 51:32 What is your favorite?

Joe Rogan 51:34 Champions.

Hugo Martin 51:35 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 51:35 Quake Champions is the best.

Hugo Martin 51:36 Tim is happy.

Joe Rogan 51:37 It's the best.

Hugo Martin 51:38 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 51:38 It's the best. It's everything in Quake.

Hugo Martin 51:40 As it should be.

Joe Rogan 51:40 Yeah, it's everything in Quake, but ramped up. I don't like all that stupid shit, like-

Hugo Martin 51:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:45 ... when lizards spit on you and it's poison. You run through it. Like, that stuff's-

Hugo Martin 51:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:49 ... weak. But, but the, the weapons are really well-balanced and the maps-

Hugo Martin 51:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:53 ... are amazing, and the graphics are off the charts. The graphics are so cool. Like, while you're playing it, you're like, "What the fuck?"

Hugo Martin 51:59 Dude, the, the ... It's a, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 52:01 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 52:01 And the artists are so amazing. I mean, the, the work they do is so inspiring. That's the coolest thing. Like, you, you love what you do. You love the medium that you work in. I feel so fortunate because ... And I speak for all of us at the team. We fucking love the type of game we make. I mean, you just saw it, dude. It's-

Joe Rogan 52:15 It's so cool. (laughs)

Hugo Martin 52:16 It's fucking absurd. It's like an-

Joe Rogan 52:17 So cool.

Hugo Martin 52:18 ... R-rated psycho cartoon.

Joe Rogan 52:20 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 52:20 But it's not, it's not mean-spirited. That's what I really like about it. Like, it's, it's, it's kind of, uh, it's cool. It's like you-

Joe Rogan 52:27 It's fun.

Hugo Martin 52:27 It's fun. Fun. That was actually our, our main focus. Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:29 And you, again, you're killing demons. Like that's-

Hugo Martin 52:32 That's it.

Joe Rogan 52:32 ... fine. It's just like Walking Dead. You're allowed to kill the zombies.

Hugo Martin 52:35 The whole-

Joe Rogan 52:35 Don't feel bad.

Hugo Martin 52:36 The whole purpose, uh, is to make ... Uh, something we talk about quite a bit, like the emotional response of the consumer, like how you feel when you play something, and we want you to smile. Like, certain games, they want you to be scared, which is good. Survival hard games, I'm on, I'm on my heels. I'm like, "Oh my God," you know, "What's around the corner?" In Doom, we want you on your toes smiling, like just fucking barreling forward, like, "What am I gonna murder next?"

Joe Rogan 52:57 (laughs)

Hugo Martin 52:57 Like, "Where is it?" You know. And, but it's, it's, uh, it's, it's frivolous and it's fun and it's junk food, but the ... As we say, there is quite a bit of nutritional content in there. Like, it's, it's a smart game.

Joe Rogan 53:09 Is there any pushback against these kind of games? Like, when you guys produce a game like this or create a game like this, is, is there any ... where people are like, "This is too violent, this is awful, this is-"

Hugo Martin 53:20 Not, not really because it's not against humans. Like, we ... It ... And it's not ... There's no agenda. Like, it's not ... I guess, yeah, we, we don't really deal with that because you're murdering cartoonish-looking fucking demons, you know?

Joe Rogan 53:34 Right.

Hugo Martin 53:34 And, and dude, believe me, like, we take it ... full advantage of that. Like, like I said-

Joe Rogan 53:39 Yeah, well you showed me.

Hugo Martin 53:39 ... you ... She's straight up Steven Seagal'd these motherfuckers right in the head. Like, it's awesome. And, and, uh, but-

Joe Rogan 53:44 I don't think you should say Steven Seagal anymore.

Hugo Martin 53:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:46 And definitely don't use it as a verb.

Hugo Martin 53:48 I, uh ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:48 It's way more violent than any Seagal movie, but-

Hugo Martin 53:50 That, that is true, but, but, like, I, I always got a kick out of his hyperextending of the limbs.

Joe Rogan 53:55 The breaking of the arms.

Hugo Martin 53:56 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 53:57 And that one in particular, that Glory Kill 2, we were like ... There's this, there's a ... (laughs) There's one pose in the animation where you hold out his arm and he's like, "Gah," 'cause that's like what guys always do.

Joe Rogan 54:05 What, what I'm holding out hope for is some sort of Oculus version of Doom or of Quake or something like that where you have, like, a unidirectional treadmill and you're locked into it. You, you've seen those things, right?

Hugo Martin 54:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:20 Was it omnidirectional? Is that what it's called? Or ... Yeah. Omnidirectional treadmill.

Hugo Martin 54:25 There's, uh, Doom VFR, which is pretty cool. Like, they, they made it, and, uh, it did really well, actually.

Joe Rogan 54:30 Really?

Hugo Martin 54:31 And it's ... Yeah, yeah. It's-

Joe Rogan 54:32 Where is it?

Hugo Martin 54:32 Uh-

Joe Rogan 54:32 Pull, pull up that.

Hugo Martin 54:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Doom VFR. Have you heard of it, Jamie?

Guest 54:36 I was telling my ... I have it, but I have not played it 'cause it came in my little cycle of, like, getting ... where I couldn't stand up for a long period of time.

Joe Rogan 54:42 Oh, your back issue?

Guest 54:43 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 54:43 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 54:44 Jamie broke his butt.

Hugo Martin 54:45 We, uh, kind of removed-

Joe Rogan 54:47 You don't even care?

Hugo Martin 54:47 R- ... (laughs) We removed those things from the office-

Narrator 54:50 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 54:50 ... the thing that he hurt himself on.

Joe Rogan 54:51 Oh, the hover boards?

Hugo Martin 54:52 Oh my goodness.

Joe Rogan 54:53 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 54:54 So, the ... One minute, people are laughing, "Check this out." Next minute, some dude's-

Joe Rogan 54:57 Yeah.

Hugo Martin 54:57 ... ankle is just straight fucking hanging off his leg.

Joe Rogan 55:00 So, this is the VR version of Doom?

Hugo Martin 55:02 Yes. It is. It is crazy.

Joe Rogan 55:03 So ... Oh, this looks pretty goddamn good. And so, how are you moving around?

Hugo Martin 55:07 Uh, you're teleporting, just like he does.

Joe Rogan 55:08 Yeah, but how are you walking?

Hugo Martin 55:10 Uh, I think that's it, I, I think.

Joe Rogan 55:11 You just teleport? You-

Hugo Martin 55:12 I-

Joe Rogan 55:13 ... stand still?

Hugo Martin 55:14 I, I didn't, uh, I didn't work on this, so I don't really know how the movement works.

Joe Rogan 55:16 Oh, okay. Do you know, Jamie?

Narrator 55:18 I did.

Hugo Martin 55:18 Like, how are you going through all this?

Narrator 55:20 Did you see right there? There's a little line that shoots out.

Hugo Martin 55:21 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 55:21 That's, like, where you're teleporting to.

Hugo Martin 55:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Oh, so you stay ... Pfft, this is wack.

Hugo Martin 55:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:27 I can't move?

Guest 55:28 I mean, that's how they had it. That's ... This is, uh-

Hugo Martin 55:30 That's too good.

Guest 55:30 ... a couple years old now, so they've figured out some new things and some new-

Joe Rogan 55:32 Oh.

Guest 55:33 ... new controllers and stuff, but yeah.

Hugo Martin 55:34 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:34 Well, the graphics look dope, but if you're just teleporting to each spot and then standing still and punching people, that's ridiculous.

Hugo Martin 55:40 There ... I-

Joe Rogan 55:40 Oh, that's how you do it, huh?

Guest 55:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:41 And then you go forward.

Hugo Martin 55:43 Well, I'm not doing it justice, too, because I didn't work on this, so I couldn't really tell you how the movement actually works in this.

Joe Rogan 55:47 It's obvious. It's pretty, it's pretty obvious that that's what you do. You're tele- teleporting with that green bolt. Have you ever, um, uh ... You know what Sandbox is? Have you ever fucked with that?

Hugo Martin 55:56 No.

Joe Rogan 55:56 Sandbox VR?

Hugo Martin 55:57 No.

Joe Rogan 55:58 It's really cool. There's, um, uh, there's a company in Woodland Hills, or there's a, uh, a studio in Woodland Hills, and there's another one ... I don't ... There's a couple of them around the LA area. But anyway, you, uh, put a haptic feedback vest on, you put a helmet, VR, everything, plastic guns, and then you go and fight things. And there's one where you go and shoot ... This one's great. This one is called, uh, what is it?

Hugo Martin 56:23 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:23 Something Mansion? What is it called?... so they have one of these in Texas.

Guest 56:27 You shoot zombies.

Joe Rogan 56:28 Yeah. I wanna, I wanna do this.

Guest 56:29 Dude, it's the shit.

Joe Rogan 56:30 Yeah. That seems amazing.

Guest 56:31 It's really fun. Rats come out, you gotta gun the rats down. So you are in this room, and like, this is ... See, they keep cutting back for what, what is actually happening, what the people see.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Sure.

Guest 56:41 But when you're there live and you see it, it's fucking killer. It's really cool.

Joe Rogan 56:45 That is awesome.

Guest 56:46 Really fun. And they're getting better at these things. They have like a sort of a, a, the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 56:51 That character's cool.

Guest 56:51 That's the boss that comes and gets you. Deadwood Mansion, that's that one. I love that one.

Joe Rogan 56:55 That's awesome.

Guest 56:56 There's a Star Trek game. There's, um, there's quite a few of them. I think they have four or five different little experiences that you could do.

Joe Rogan 57:03 That's awesome.

Guest 57:04 Really, really fun. I envision that-

Joe Rogan 57:05 Don't they have a Star Wars one?

Guest 57:07 Um, perhaps.

57:08 I guess The VOID has that, yeah. The VOID's a little-

Joe Rogan 57:10 Oh, The VOID.

Guest 57:10 Dude, it's the shit.

Joe Rogan 57:10 Oh, that's right.

Guest 57:11 That seems amazing. It's really fun. Rats come out, you gotta gun the rats down. So you are in this room, and like, this is ... See, they keep cutting back for what, what is actually happening, what the people see.

Joe Rogan 57:11 Sure.

Guest 57:11 But when you're there live and you see it, it's fucking killer. It's really cool. Really fun.

Joe Rogan 57:11 That is awesome.

Guest 57:11 And they're getting better at these things. They have like a, sort of a, a, the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 57:11 That character's cool.

Guest 57:11 That's the boss that comes and gets you. Deadwood Mansion, that's that one. I love that one.

Joe Rogan 57:11 That's awesome.

Guest 57:11 There's a Star Trek game. There's um, there's quite a few of them. I think they have four or five different little experiences that you can do.

Joe Rogan 57:11 That's awesome.

Guest 57:11 Really, really fun. I envision that-

Joe Rogan 57:11 Don't they have a Star Wars one?

Guest 57:11 Um, perhaps.

57:11 I guess The VOID has that, yeah. The VOID's a little-

Joe Rogan 57:11 Oh, The VOID.

Guest 57:11 Dude, it's the shit.

Joe Rogan 57:11 Oh, that's right.

Guest 57:11 That seems amazing. It's really fun. Rats come out, you gotta gun the rats down. So you are in this room, and like, this is ... See, they keep cutting back for what, what is actually happening, what the people see.

Joe Rogan 57:12 Sure.

Guest 57:12 But when you're there live and you see it, it's fucking killer. It's really cool. Really fun.

Joe Rogan 57:12 That is awesome.

Guest 57:12 And they're getting better at these things. They have like a sort of a, a, the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 57:12 That character's cool.

Guest 57:12 That's the boss that comes and gets you. Deadwood Mansion, that's that one. I love that one.

Joe Rogan 57:12 That's awesome.

Guest 57:12 There's a Star Trek game. There's um, there's quite a few of them. I think they have four or five different little experiences that you can do.

Joe Rogan 57:12 That's awesome.

Guest 57:12 Really, really fun. I envision that-

Joe Rogan 57:12 Don't they have a Star Wars one?

Guest 57:13 Um, perhaps.

57:14 I guess The VOID has that, yeah. The VOID's a little-

Joe Rogan 57:23 Oh, The VOID.

Guest 57:25 Dude, it's the shit.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Yeah, you could do something like that.

Guest 58:03 Hudson, that sounds awesome.

Joe Rogan 58:04 My f- that's my hope for the future, is that games are like that and you're actually gonna be able to exercise doing that. Sure. Because I think that if you had a game where you're in a warehouse and you're actually running for your life a- and, you know, demons are chasing you and you're shooting down things, like, your heart rate would be jacked. You could do that for an hour and get a sick workout in and have an amazing good time. That would be awesome. You could get in great shape running from demons. You would. I wouldn't have to get up so early in the fucking morning. (laughs) Well, think about this game, if you could play this game, but you could play this game in a warehouse where, you know, you have all of the boxes and all the stairs. They're all real stairs and real boxes. Yeah, yeah. And you're, you're running around this pre-designed map and you're actually engaging with these VR demons with a haptic feedback suit on. Fucking glory killing them. Yeah. Psh, psh, ripping out their parts. That'd be awesome. Yeah. You're really into this glory killing, but the really problem with this calling it glory killing is it sounds too much like glory hole. (laughs) It really does. So- Right, Jamie? You agree?

Guest 59:07 They have a, they have a new ride that got announced today for, I guess, out here at Disneyland, the new Marvel, uh-

59:13 Comics Universe.

59:14 ... Avengers Campus is gonna be opening up-

Joe Rogan 59:16 Mm-hmm.

Guest 59:16 ... in the summer. They have a Dis- or a Spider-Man ride where it, it sounds like you put on a 3D he- headset, I think just goggles, and somehow they're tracking your hands. So during the ride you shoot things for points.

Joe Rogan 59:31 Oh.

Guest 59:31 And then there's a lea-

Joe Rogan 59:32 With your spider web.

Guest 59:32 And then there's a leader board-

Joe Rogan 59:33 That's awesome.

Guest 59:34 ... outside the ride for like weekly, daily and monthly stuff.

Joe Rogan 59:37 Oh.

Guest 59:37 So you and your family can get tracked and be like, "We're the best at this ride, so..."

Joe Rogan 59:41 Oh, you're gonna get addicted. (laughs) That's how they get you.

Guest 59:44 The, uh-

59:45 It sounds so awesome.

59:46 The level of, uh, sophistication going on, uh, with the games, whether you're mouse and keyboard or controller though, it would be hard to achieve in VR. I think VR offers like a very, uh, specific, unique, and fucking amazing experience. And I would, I would just like separate the two. Like, you know, when, when, uh, when, when we're making VR games we're definitely trying to do something else, uh, which is cool in and of itself. In and, in and of itself, but there's like, uh, not only just in our game but in a lot of games, like, there's just resource management. There's like s- high level skill meta shit happening. I mean, you know, you play fucking Quake, so like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Yeah.

Guest 1:00:22 ... you know, that's hard to reproduce, uh, in VR in certain ways, at least at this time. But, but I think that's the thing, like, they want ... It happens a lot in games where people want to take how you feel or how a movie engages you and apply it to a game. And I think it's like, let a game be its own-

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 Yeah, yeah.

Guest 1:00:38 Let a game be a game, let a movie be a movie, let VR be its own fucking experience. Like, that looks fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Yeah.

Guest 1:00:44 Like, uh, but, yeah, if we just ... Yeah, so, so, uh, still though, yeah, I would love to kill a de- you know, demon. I, I, we have the VR game, I should just play it, but I-

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 But what I'm, what I'm saying is like if someone made a Doom warehouse where you guys take a 14,000 square foot warehouse, just outfit it specifically for Doom, you got a line around the block of psychopaths-

Guest 1:01:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 ... waiting to play that thing for one hour.

Guest 1:01:08 Geeks.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 I mean, seriously. Especially somewhere like Texas where there's a bunch of warehouses. Like you can find some-

Guest 1:01:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 ... warehouse district where you can get three or four of them and set them up for different m- maps in the game.

Guest 1:01:21 That'd be fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 God damn, man. I mean, they're real close to being able to do something like that-

Guest 1:01:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 ... where it would be really accurate too, where you could have like a laser sight on your rifle and, you know-

Guest 1:01:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 ... you could see things through your goggles and-

Guest 1:01:33 That'd be fucking badass. Although, it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 It's the future.

Guest 1:01:36 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 It's the future, Hugo. It's a- it's- it's, uh, lame ... Well, it's not lame, you know, Carmack can do anything he wants, but he's doing AI now. Like he's not doing VR anymore, I heard. I heard he was just consulting with Oculus, but now he's, he's pursuing, uh, AI.

Guest 1:01:51 Well, let's be honest, he's too smart.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 (laughs) He is, he's-

Guest 1:01:53 He's too smart. He's from another planet. Him and Elon Musk get together and share notes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 Yes, yes.

Guest 1:01:58 Both, both, they're both super wizards.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Yeah, totally.

Guest 1:02:00 He's, uh, I mean, I'm sure he feels challenged by AI.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Yeah.

Guest 1:02:04 And, uh, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 He, he likes a challenge.

Guest 1:02:06 He's a very interesting guy to talk to, too. I really enjoy talking to him.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Yeah, he, he is awesome.

Guest 1:02:10 When you really think about what he's accomplished in the world of video games, I mean, he's the mack daddy.

Hugo Martin 1:02:15 ... amazing. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 He really is. He's the, the guy who started it all, really. The, if you enjoy 3D games, that's the guy.

Hugo Martin 1:02:24 That's why working at id Software, uh ... And, uh, and he totally is the guy. Uh, and along with the rest of them too, like Romero and those guys. Like they-

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Mm-hmm.

Hugo Martin 1:02:33 That group, fuck, that's like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:34 Do you know him? Do you know John Romero?

Hugo Martin 1:02:35 Uh, I've met him a couple times, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 That Daikatana game-

Hugo Martin 1:02:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 ... he took a lot of