Joe Rogan Experience #1453 - Eric Weinstein

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   What's up, brother? How…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      What's up, brother? How are you?

   2. EWEric Weinstein0:02

      Hey, Joe. How are you?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Good. You hanging in there?

   4. EWEric Weinstein0:04

      I have not been off of my property more or less in two weeks, so it's crazy to see another human being.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      Yeah, I don't think this is healthy for us.

   6. EWEric Weinstein0:11

      I know.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      This lockdown shit. Everybody's so weirded out. You wanna run into people walking dogs, like, they don't want the dogs to get close to each other, like, "Hi." Everyone's across the street, "Hi."

   8. EWEric Weinstein0:22

      And, and I'm a hugger, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      Me too.

   10. EWEric Weinstein0:23

       And we're in California, so I'm a hugger in California, and all of my instincts are wrong.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Everything's all messed up. Everyone's confused. The... Here's the big question: how long does it take before we normalize and go back? Like, let's say the end of July, everyone announces, "We got this thing locked down. We have a viable treatment. It's no different than the flu. We get you this chloroquine with, uh, Z-Pak," or whatever the current treatment is.

   12. EWEric Weinstein0:52

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       When do people start hugging again?

   14. EWEric Weinstein0:53

       What do you mean? It's not... It's gonna be crazy. Yeah, I mean, I think that the idea is we're all so starved for touch-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Yeah.

   16. EWEric Weinstein0:58

       ... that, like, we're gonna have a, uh, a jubilee like you've never seen. People are gonna greet each other with tongues, and we're almost like just acquaintances.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Well, I don't think that's a good idea.

   18. EWEric Weinstein1:06

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Uh, there's still colds and cooties and all that other stuff.

   20. EWEric Weinstein1:09

       I know, but I think-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       (laughs)

   22. EWEric Weinstein1:10

       ... I think everybody's losing their shit.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       They definitely are. I've been talking to a lot of friends that are on the, um, extremely cautious side, let's say that. And, you know, they're not going anywhere, and they're wearing gloves and masks when they step outside their house to go do something in the backyard. And then they put the glove and mask down, and they spray it with Lysol when they come inside and... (breathes deeply)

   24. EWEric Weinstein1:31

       It's not healthy, and-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Mm-hmm.

   26. EWEric Weinstein1:33

       ... it is also healthy. I mean, the idea that we have not been tested in so long, it's good to remember also that this stuff is live and real, and it has always been live and real. And, you know, if it was possible to live without this stuff, that would be one thing, but the 75-year nap that we've been in since 1945 is itself the greatest threat to all of us.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:56

       Right.

   28. EWEric Weinstein1:56

       And, and, and our preparedness is just a wonderful indicator, um, where you actually get to see, this is the quality of your experts, this is the quality of your leadership, this is what they look like when put under stress.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       That's true, right? That is a good... That's a good thing. And I'm impressed with the medical community. I'm impressed with the people that are recognizing that this is a huge problem. Not so impressed with the administration of a lot of these hospitals that haven't prepared in terms of, like, masks and ventilators and a lot of these other things. Not so impressed with politicians, but also, it just seems like everyone, like you said, was in this nap state and hadn't really been tested. And really, globally, no one had been tested since the pandemic of 1918 like this, right?

   30. EWEric Weinstein2:44

       '68, uh, which I had, I had the Hong Kong flu, and '57 were sort of the best parallels to this.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Right. Yeah, we don't…

   1. EWEric Weinstein15:00

      flights, product. She... Wh- whatever she's doing, she's- she's heroically like taking a ton of this on her shoulders and not, um... I- I- I'm hesitating because I don't even know what I'm allowed to say.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      Right. Yeah, we don't have to talk anymore then.

   3. EWEric Weinstein15:17

      Yeah, you should, you should-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      She's a, uh, she's a very interesting person. I'm really glad you introduced me to her. She's fascinating. This, like, this is, uh, a great time to see what people are actually made out of, you know?

   5. EWEric Weinstein15:28

      Yeah, who's, who's heroic? The heroic impulse.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      Sure. And- and who can keep their shit together when things go sideways, when things get Western, as it were.

   7. EWEric Weinstein15:37

      Well, let me ask you a question.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      Okay.

   9. EWEric Weinstein15:38

      Of all of the presidential candidates that were in the race, like, everybody who's dropped out in... As well, which of them would you want in a COVID situation?

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Tulsi.

   11. EWEric Weinstein15:48

       Tulsi. That's... By the way, that was my answer as well.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Instantly.

   13. EWEric Weinstein15:52

       I don't... I didn't want her f- foreign policy, that's one of the reasons I wasn't like gung-ho on Tulsi. Uh, didn't like some of the stuff about, um, in India there's some issues about Modi and- and I don't wanna get into that. But if you ask like, who would you want to, like, who has that kind of locked down military, "We have to make sense, the bullshit needs to leave the room," the odd thing is it's a millennial female of color that I would immediately want to subordinate to.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Well, she's, um-

   15. EWEric Weinstein16:24

       'Cause she would also be no bullshit.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       Yeah.

   17. EWEric Weinstein16:25

       She- she had the strength to call out all of the nonsense. She would... I- I'm positive she would just say, "This is unacceptable. What are we doing? This is emergency times, we- we gotta suspend these issues. We have to get these things to our, uh, doctors, nurses, emergency technicians." I mean, look, I- I should say that I'm trying to be like smiley and positive, but I am just burning with rage. I cannot believe-

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       That- that things weren't set up correctly?

   19. EWEric Weinstein16:51

       Th- the scale of the screw-up and trying to even understand a government that I cannot trust as far as I can throw it, to- to- to feel contempt for the Surgeon General of the United States, to say that the World Health Organization is a danger to world health, to say that the CDC is lying. I hate being in a position where I believe these things.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Yeah. Um, but about Tulsi, uh, she's- she's a person of real character, you know. I don't see her like I see a lot of these people that are running for president. I see them wearing masks, you know. I mean, I don't even need to name names but they- they're- they're doing their best impression of a politician like a shitty comedian will do their best impression of Dave Attell, you know. That's the- the best example that someone gave me of, uh, like the- the comparison. There's- there's- there's a style of communicating that a lot of them have adopted to try to appear. And you can tell that they're coached, they're trying to appear presidential. She's just, that's who she is, man. I've hung out with her off camera, on camera. I've seen her, just the way she communicates with people. Now, I don't know her down to the bone, but what I see, I'm very impressed with and she's developed her character over two tours of duty overseas. I mean-

   21. EWEric Weinstein18:13

       Again, who- who volunteers, who takes this-

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:15

       Yeah.

   23. EWEric Weinstein18:15

       ... stuff on? This is the weird thing because I, you know, really, before COVID, I was in this Bernie Yang Tulsi mindset which is just, what is the fur ball that I can shove down the throat of the DNC to make the party fall apart under that Hillary Clinton overhang?

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:34

       Mm-hmm.

   25. EWEric Weinstein18:36

       The weird thing is in an actual pandemic...... I am almost positive that she has the stuff.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       Yeah.

   27. EWEric Weinstein18:45

       It may not be her year.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:46

       Right. She's only 38.

   29. EWEric Weinstein18:48

       She's only 38.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:49

       Yeah.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. EWEric Weinstein30:00

      is no mainstream left. What we're really talking about is legacy institutional media.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      Yeah.

   3. EWEric Weinstein30:05

      And the great danger is that assume that the mainstream completely exits the building and it's only, you know, 10,000 people trading bullshit amongst themselves but they also control all the institutions. So, like, you, the world, gets to keep reality.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:21

      Mm-hmm.

   5. EWEric Weinstein30:22

      And we, the institutions, agree to traffic in bullshit, you can make lots of jokes at our expense, but we are also going to be figuring out whether we're gonna stock masks or what our farming policy is or, um, how the US military should be deployed and where, uh, we should send troops to protect oil fields and all these kind of things. And th- that's what's concerning me is, is that a lot of us are settling for being right and having them look like idiots. And their point is, "Okay, fine. We'll continue on. We'll look like idiots, but we also still control the levers."

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      So f-... with legacy media, your, your assertion is that legacy media has a much more impactful presence in terms of foreign policy, in terms of dealing with, uh, pandemic, the response, like things along those lines? Like-

   7. EWEric Weinstein31:08

      So let's play with it and see where it goes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:09

      Okay.

   9. EWEric Weinstein31:10

      If you think about Wikipedia, Wikipedia might have a rule that says, "We allow ... We, we don't do original s- research, so please link to authoritative sources." And you say, "Okay, great. What are authoritative sources?"

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       Mm-hmm.

   11. EWEric Weinstein31:23

       So now the authoritative source is the CDC or the WHO or the surgeon general or the New York Times or CNN or MSNBC. Like i- if you have this c-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       But is MSNBC ... Like with ... If someone just goes on, on the air and talks about something-

   13. EWEric Weinstein31:37

       Well, let's have a listen. See, I, I-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       ... is that an authoritative source? Or is it-

   15. EWEric Weinstein31:40

       You're-

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:40

       Wouldn't it be like an expert in health, like someone who's gone over peer-reviewed studies, someone who is well-educated in-

   17. EWEric Weinstein31:49

       Who's the surgeon, who's the surgeon general right now?

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:50

       I don't know.

   19. EWEric Weinstein31:50

       Or CDC? Is that Redfield?

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:53

       I don't know.

   21. EWEric Weinstein31:53

       I'm sure he's a competent physician. I also think that there's a whole thing about pretending that masks don't work. "Masks don't work in the general population. Please don't buy them. Our healthcare people need them."

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       Is that what they're saying?

   23. EWEric Weinstein32:06

       Well, that's what they've been saying, right? And so the, the issue is that you have some piece of nonsense. So the, the, the orig-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       That is a piece of nonsense because California's now changing their recommendation and saying, "If you're going out in public, you should wear a mask."

   25. EWEric Weinstein32:17

       It's not just nonsense, it's deadly nonsense. It's deadly physician-killing nonsense. I mean, I'm trying ... Smiles, everyone.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:27

       Smile.

   27. EWEric Weinstein32:28

       (laughs) Um, yeah. I mean, what we have is a, is a situation in which we knew that the mask and personal protective equipment supplies are wildly off, to say nothing of ventilators and ICU beds. And now, what do we do about it? So we have rules like, "Please don't bring masks to work because it scares the patients," or, um, "Please don't, uh, wear homemade masks, um, because th- they might actually be more, uh, germ-filled (laughs) or virus-filled." So you're back-propagating s- what you wish to be true to get the action that you're looking for. What we have is a prisoner's dilemma, where if everybody runs and buys up masks, who ... Like, the people we need to be protected most are the heroes who are actually dealing with, you know, multiple COVID patients and taking huge amounts of viral load. So there's no question in my mind that those, those are the people that, as a society, if you would level with us ... Like, there is a speech to give, which would go like this. Um, you know, "My fellow Americans, uh, as Readiness Czar, I am forced to tender my resignation effective Friday this week. Uh, I have failed to heed many of the warnings in our academic literature. Because our s- reserves are severely depleted, it is imperative that we not suffer further loss of life, and therefore, I am, uh, forced to make a, an unusual request. Having failed you, I'm asking everyone who stockpiled masks for personal use to think about doing something sacrificial for the good of us all. Our heroes are currently exposed to the coronavirus and taking huge amounts of viral load, and I'm asking you to donate any unused masks that you have, uh, to this population, as we are desperately trying to replenish our stocks. Please continue to shelter in place and recognize that the benefit to you is minor and the benefit to us all is major. And this will be following your heroic impulse to bring us back together as a nation. Thank you."

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:30

       First of all, is there a Readiness Czar?

   29. EWEric Weinstein34:31

       No.

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:32

       Okay. Second of all, no one's gonna say that. They're, they're never gonna admit-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yes. …

   1. EWEric Weinstein45:00

      you saw this interaction with the, uh, was it Hong Kong TV asking about-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Yes.

   3. EWEric Weinstein45:04

      ... the WHO about Taiwan.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Taiwan. Yeah, that was insane. Well, explain that, because it's fucking insane. It, it was insane to watch. First of all, he pretended, the, the head of the WHO pretended he didn't hear them, and then he, he had them say it again-

   5. EWEric Weinstein45:19

      So first of all, he moves like ...

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:20

      Yes.

   7. EWEric Weinstein45:20

      You c- you can see his hand-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      Yes.

   9. EWEric Weinstein45:22

      ... like go to cut off the connection.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       And he hung up.

   11. EWEric Weinstein45:24

       He says, "I couldn't hear." He says, "Oh, I'll repeat the question." He's like, "No, let's go onto the next one."

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:29

       Yeah.

   13. EWEric Weinstein45:29

       Well, why would he wanna go onto the next one if he didn't hear it? Come on.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       Yeah.

   15. EWEric Weinstein45:31

       I don't even have ... H- here's the point. We are so afraid-

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       But e- explain what he did to people that don't know, because people are listening here and they're a little confused.

   17. EWEric Weinstein45:38

       He was asked about the Taiwanese response-

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:40

       Yes.

   19. EWEric Weinstein45:40

       ... to the COVID epidemic, and he didn't wanna say Taiwan, because China claims that Taiwan is part of China.

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Yeah.

   21. EWEric Weinstein45:50

       And because China exercises so much influence over the WHO, he wanted to say some very general thing, which is like, "I think all provinces of China have been doing an excellent job."

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       Yeah, that's exactly what he said, yeah.

   23. EWEric Weinstein46:00

       Meaning a different country, Taiwan, um, because there's a dispute. And so what do you think China's most interested in? China, P- the People's Republic of China, Communist China, Communist Chinese want no recognition of their existing something called Taiwan.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       And why does the World Health Organization give into that?

   25. EWEric Weinstein46:26

       Well, how do, how do different nations get control of things? Um, you know, we have influence at the UN, and we've caused the UN to do things that are America-centric. Um, you know, other countries have influence and, and you, you do this by being on particular committees, rotating directorships, who pays, uh, the cost. I, I don't know how, uh, the WHO seems to be so enmeshed with China, and I, I don't want to opine about these things because I wanna keep my voice-

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       Right, but it-

   27. EWEric Weinstein46:57

       ... cl-

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:57

       ... it spoke volumes to watch that guy do that, do that little dance-

   29. EWEric Weinstein47:01

       Okay, to me-

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       ... trying to avoid saying Taiwan.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Right? And so there…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

   2. EWEric Weinstein1:00:00

      Right? And so there is an important partnership across this. If you think about, um... You remember the film Inglourious Basterds? Did you like that one?

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Sure. Loved it.

   4. EWEric Weinstein1:00:09

      Okay. Lieutenant Aldo Ray is this interface between regular army and the psychotic Jews who will kill Nazis given any opportunity. And you need people who interface between, like, the bad boys and the regular units.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

      Hm.

   6. EWEric Weinstein1:00:25

      And these are incredibly important, um, what is the plural of nexus? Nexi? I don't know. Uh, w- we got into trouble the first time with, uh, octopus.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

      Octopi.

   8. EWEric Weinstein1:00:36

      I- no, it's actually-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

      It's not octopuses?

   10. EWEric Weinstein1:00:38

       The, the, the recommended one is octopodes, spelled, spelled octopodes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       Really?

   12. EWEric Weinstein1:00:43

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

       Whoa. But I've seen octopi and-

   14. EWEric Weinstein1:00:45

       Yeah. Well, people, people use oc- they, they use, uh, octopuses, octopi.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

       There it is. Plural form of nexus is nexuses or nexus.

   16. EWEric Weinstein1:00:56

       Okay. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

       Oh, boy.

   18. EWEric Weinstein1:00:57

       Jamie with the win.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

       How-

   20. EWEric Weinstein1:00:59

       Thank you.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

       ... how weird that it's either or, that it could just be nexus, the plural form of nexus is... Well, that makes sense, I guess.

   22. EWEric Weinstein1:01:06

       So these nexus-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

       ... ness.

   24. EWEric Weinstein1:01:08

       Uh-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

       Sounds good, like deer. (laughs)

   26. EWEric Weinstein1:01:09

       ... or in cr- (laughs) God.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       Fish.

   28. EWEric Weinstein1:01:11

       I gotta get used to it. Uh, are incredibly important and we have to keep them up. And I'm worried about the, um, corpora- the rebel end of corporate, because these corporations are starting to realize that th- their need for kayfabe is just far exceeding, um-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

       Kayfabe?

   30. EWEric Weinstein1:01:30

       Kayfabe. Kayfabe is carnival-speak for the word "fake." And when catch wrestling devolved into professional wrestling, uh-
6. 1:15:00 – 1:15:47

   When they're given no…

   1. EWEric Weinstein1:15:00

      express themselves moronically. Um ...

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:03

      When they're given no choice at all, how so?

   3. EWEric Weinstein1:15:04

      Yeah. I want a choice of an actual president that's viable. I don't have one.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:08

      Right.

   5. EWEric Weinstein1:15:09

      So then you're gonna ask me, "Well, which, which of the non-viable people do you like best?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:15:12

      Well, this is the, this is the real i- issue with the Democratic Party. They've essentially made us all morons-

   7. EWEric Weinstein1:15:18

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:18

      ... with this Joe Biden thing.

   9. EWEric Weinstein1:15:20

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:20

       They really have. They've made us all morons.

   11. EWEric Weinstein1:15:23

       Can you imagine ... Who do we need ... I mean, ca- who ... I never-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:26

       I never vote for that guy.

   13. EWEric Weinstein1:15:27

       I can't vote for him.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:28

       I can't vote for him.

   15. EWEric Weinstein1:15:29

       I can't vote for Trump.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:15:30

       There, I would, I'd rather vote for Trump than him. I, I don't think he could handle anything. I mean, you're relying entirely on his cabinet. Like if you wanna talk about a, an individual leader that can communicate, he can't do that. And I, and we don't even know what the fuck he's gonna be like after a year in office. The pressure of being the president of the United States-

Episode duration: 3:02:05