Joe Rogan Experience #1515 - Dr. Bradley Garrett

Joe Rogan 0:00 And boom, (claps) because we're live. What's up, man? How are you?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:04 Nice.

Joe Rogan 0:04 Cheers. Salud.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:05 Ha- hey, cheers, brother.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Nice to meet you.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:07 Good to meet you, too.

Joe Rogan 0:07 By the way, congrats on the mustache. The mustache-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:10 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 0:10 ... lower piece combo, that's, uh, the anarchist guy, with, that guy that, uh, who's the mask?

Narrator 0:15 Guy Fawkes.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Guy Fawkes, that's right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Perfect, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:17 Yeah. Yeah, I was kind, I was going more for a kind of a, a Doc Holliday. Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Oh.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:22 I'm, I'm your Huckleberry.

Joe Rogan 0:24 How good was he in that role?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:25 He was fantastic.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Come on, man. Mm. Many people have played Doc Holliday, but he's the best. So, uh, are you a prepper yourself? 'Cause you do have one of them GPS watches on, so either you're like-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:38 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 0:38 ... a hardcore hiker or you just don't wanna get lost.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:40 So, you, you were waiting to see the paracord bracelet, right?

Joe Rogan 0:42 (laughs) Ah, but they always have that, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:44 I know, right?

Joe Rogan 0:45 Does that ever come up?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:46 That, uh, when do you ever unravel that thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 0:49 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:49 It's, it's... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:50 Yeah, that always seems to me like someone who, like, preps at, you know, they, you just try a little too hard if you've got a paracord bracelet.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 0:55 Yeah. No, it's a kind of virtue signaling.

Joe Rogan 0:57 You never know, though. I guess it's better to have it and not to need it, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 Than need it and not to have it.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:02 I mean, and it's kind of funny, when I, uh, so I've been, I've been hanging out with preppers for about three years now, and, uh, inevitably you start drifting towards the culture, right, as you're talking to people. But every once in a while, I'll see someone in a grocery store or whatever, and I'm like, "Okay, they, you know, they got the bowie knife. They got the, like, you know, walkie-talkies strapped to 'em." I'm like, "Wow, you are really paranoid."

Joe Rogan 1:22 Walkie-talkie? Really?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:22 Yeah. I know people who walk around with their radios on.

Joe Rogan 1:24 Well, you live-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:24 Because they, because they wanna be ready for action at any moment.

Joe Rogan 1:26 You live in the mountains.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Wilderness-type area.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:29 Yeah. I live in, I live in Big Bear.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Do you, did you live there before you got obsessed with-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:34 No.

Joe Rogan 1:35 ... prepping?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:36 No. So did you move there to accustom yourself or to, uh, acclimate yourself to the culture? Like-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:44 So here's the deal. I, one of the communities that I worked with while I was writing this book, Bunker, was a community in South Dakota where there's, there's 575, uh, sort of semi-subterranean concrete bunkers that, uh, were built during World War II, and they used to store, uh, weapons in there, right? So these are bunkers to protect ordinance.

Joe Rogan 2:07 Jamie's gonna turn this towards you, there. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:09 Okay, cool. Thanks.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Sorry.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:11 Um... And-

Joe Rogan 2:12 I think I've seen this before in that now they drive, uh, they drive, like, RVs in there and stuff. Is that the same?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:17 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Okay.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:18 So now you've got, now you've got, like, 30 or 40 families that are moving into those bunkers, and, uh, those families, super cool people, very generous, very kind. I spent a lot of time with them. And, uh, you know, they told me, if, if, you know, if it ever hits the fan-

Joe Rogan 2:33 "Come visit us."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:33 ... "Y- y- come visit us. We'll, you know, we've got space for you. You're gonna be safe. You're gonna be fine."

Joe Rogan 2:36 They're gonna eat you.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:37 Well, (laughs) yeah, maybe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:40 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:40 But so, so when the, when the pandemic hit, I, b- you know, of course, I thought, "Well, is this it? Is this the moment we've been waiting for?"

Joe Rogan 2:47 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 2:48 So I s- I send everyone messages, and sure enough, they're packing up and they're going to the bunker field. And then I thought, you know, the obvious thing. "Well, you know, what about my family? What about my elderly parents?" What about, who else? Y- you know what I mean? The list starts growing-

Joe Rogan 3:02 Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:02 ... of people that you have to abandon-

Joe Rogan 3:04 Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:04 ... to save yourself, right? And, uh, so I, I didn't go, obviously.

Joe Rogan 3:09 Good for you.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:10 But, but all my family lives in Southern California, my immediate family, and, uh, and, uh, I started thinking about, like, "What is the appropriate bug out plan?" And, and I think this is a good one. So basically, Big Bear is within an hour and a half of all my family members, and, uh, I bought a cabin out there. It's got a quarter acre. It's, you know, relatively remote. Um, I can store some supplies. We could also use that as a family vacation home, right?

Joe Rogan 3:38 Hm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:38 So, so like, in the meantime, we can just enjoy it.

Joe Rogan 3:40 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:40 But if we ever needed (laughs) to all sort of leave together at the same time, we could go to the cabin and then-

Joe Rogan 3:46 It's kinda crazy that you could be at the beach, and then you could drive two hours and you're in the snow. That's one of the weirdest things about California. I mean, we, we have some really interesting terrain out here.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:56 Yeah. Uh, well, growing up here, I never, I took it for granted, right?

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 3:59 And then now I've lived in f- four countries and visited maybe 40, and every time I come back to California, I think, "Damn, this place is unique." You know?

Joe Rogan 4:07 How long did it take you to get to the valley?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:10 Uh, to get to the, to-

Joe Rogan 4:11 Right here?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:12 Oh. To here? Um, two hours.

Joe Rogan 4:14 That's nothing.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:16 Yeah, that's not bad at all.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:16 Yeah, two and a half. But check this out. The really cool thing is that if you go off the backside of Big Bear Mountain, you can just drop down into the Mojave Desert. So you can be, you can go from Big Bear to Joshua Tree in, like, 30 minutes. And if you-

Joe Rogan 4:26 Really?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:26 ... if you can take dirt roads in a 4x4, you can get there in 20.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Wow.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:30 Yeah. So I, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:32 So if you wanna do mushrooms, it's a pl- it's, it's a good po- spot to live.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:36 It's a very good spot to live. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:38 Now, you decided to write this book, and then you moved there? Was that the idea? Or did you, were y-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:46 I-

Joe Rogan 4:46 ... had you been thinking about living in a, in a place like that first, or?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 4:50 Uh, no. I, I never, I never really thought about a plan. Um, uh, to be honest with you, I've been living in cities for 15 years now. I l- I lived in London and then in Sydney, so I've been in Sydney for the past three years. And, you know, cities just suck the money out of you.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 5:05 So I never, I never had any money. I never had any way to, to think about it. And I know the, the pandemic has been, you know, tragic, unfortunate, terrible for a lot of people. But for me, it was, like, one of the best things that ever happened to me. I, I came back to California. Check this out. I came back to California to take care of my mom 'cause she was having spinal surgery.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Okay.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 5:25 I had, I had just finished my three-year research fellowship at the University of Sydney that, that enabled me to write this book with the doomsday preppers. And I was going to a new job at University College Dublin, in Ireland. And so I land in LA to take care of my mom for, for six weeks while she gets her spinal surgery. Bang. (snaps fingers) As, like, I'm wheeling her out of the hospital, and they're putting in the, uh, the tents in the parking garage at Torrance Memorial Hospital for the overflow of, of COVID patients.

Joe Rogan 5:53 Oh, Jesus.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 5:53 So-

Joe Rogan 5:54 So what, what time, when was this?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 5:55 S- I g- I, I guess this was Febru- early February.

Joe Rogan 5:59 So it was just when it was starting to pick up.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:01 Yeah. And so, uh, I'm with my partner, Amanda. We just moved from Sydney, and, and, uh...... we, (laughs) we take my mom home and we just, you know, lock ourselves inside for a couple of months and kind of wait for this all to unfold. So I actually finished this book, like the final proofs of this book, I finished in lockdown in the early days of the pandemic.

Joe Rogan 6:21 You feel relatively safe when you're in a place like Big Bear because it's woods and, you know, just like, by the time the virus gets up here, and how's it gonna get to you? You know what I mean? It's not like you're in these crowded areas. It's-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:34 Well, I, you know-

Joe Rogan 6:35 ... it's pretty remote.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:35 ... the, the virus doesn't give a shit. It moves wherever it wants to.

Joe Rogan 6:37 That's true, but-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:38 You know, you have all these people driving from LA up there for the weekend and, you know-

Joe Rogan 6:41 Well, that's true.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:42 ... but-

Joe Rogan 6:42 You were s- also, also saying that people are pretty cavalier up there, huh?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:45 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:45 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:45 Yeah, they c- they certainly are. Um-

Joe Rogan 6:48 Did you... Does it feel good to be tested? You, you were tested today.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:51 Did it feel good?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:51 I, it feels-

Joe Rogan 6:52 Did it feel like a weight lifted off of you?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:53 It actually... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:54 Yeah, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:56 It's nice.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:56 It feels great. But I was a little-

Joe Rogan 6:57 'Cause you can start thinking like-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 6:58 I was, I was actually kind of disappointed to see I didn't have the antibodies, you know.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Everybody thinks they have them.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:02 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 7:02 Everybody does. Everybody in here is like, "I think in January, I think back in January, I had this cough. I'm pretty sure I had it and beat it."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:08 Yeah. But I have to say, um, I guess my, m- you know, my anxiety about coming here was kind of ramped up by the, by the po- by the possibility that they were gonna say, "You've tested positive." Like, drag me out by my hair, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:21 Well, we wouldn't do that.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:22 No, but-

Joe Rogan 7:23 If you were positive, I would just back up a little and put a mask on, I guess. What would we do?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:27 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 7:28 W- would you feel comfortable doing a podcast with someone who's in the room who's positive? I think it's a bad move. We probably would, would be b- we'd do it in the parking lot. We could do that. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:39 Could do something.

Joe Rogan 7:40 Just we'll fig- we would figure it out. If you were positive, we'd figure it out. We'd do it in the parking lot with masks on or something.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 7:45 But here's... The thing about Big Bear, right, is that, is that, um, when we were in lockdown in LA, in the early days of it, like, a- a- again, I'm speaking from a space of ver- (laughs) of privilege here, you know, 'cause my paychecks were still coming in, whatever, but like, I almost experienced a sense of euphoria. Like, all my talks were canceled, my plane tickets, I canceled like four plane tickets, you know.

Joe Rogan 8:04 So the pressure's relieved.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:06 Oh, yeah, and I was just like, "I can just hang out with my mom."

Joe Rogan 8:08 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:08 "This is great." You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:10 Mm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:10 But, but you get, you know, you get through that initial phase and then you get into the stamina phase.

Joe Rogan 8:16 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:16 Right? And like that's something we should really talk about.

Joe Rogan 8:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:18 Because when... If you're, if you're thinking about locking yourself in a bunker, um, uh, you know, stamina is gonna be really important. And when they, uh, shut down the beaches and the trails in Los Angeles and I couldn't get outside anymore, that, I mean, that had a devastating mental effect on me.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Did they do that in Big Bear as well? They shut down the trails up there?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:37 No. No.

Joe Rogan 8:38 No.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:38 No. So when we, we moved up to Big Bear, immediately-

Joe Rogan 8:40 Is that San Bernardino County?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:41 ... we could go, we could go trail running again. We could be outside and, you know-

Joe Rogan 8:44 Is it San Bernardino County?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:46 Yeah, yeah, yes.

Joe Rogan 8:46 Yes. So they're allowed... They have different rules, lower population, all that jazz?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 8:50 Yeah, a lot more space.

Joe Rogan 8:51 All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the, the trail thing was a real bummer. Um, the, the locking off the beaches too. It's like, you know, there was... In the beginning, there was so much scrambling because they weren't really sure how it was transmitted or when it was dangerous, when it wasn't dangerous.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Now they're pretty sure, um, there was a study done that shows that it dies almost instantly at, in sunlight. So, uh, when you're outside at the beach, there's probably very little chance of, of spreading. So a lot of people took this, that when the protests were happening, it's very little chance that it's gonna spread during the protests, which is probably true during the day. But the thing is, the protests don't end during the day. People were-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:31 ... jammed on top of each other all throughout the night, and it easily could have gotten you then.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:36 They're showing that also even simulated UV light, there was a study done that showed that, uh, artificial UV, uh, artificial sunlight, like simulated sunlight also kills it.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:45 I had... I was out in, uh, Joshua Tree yesterday and I went for a, a seven-mile trail run.

Joe Rogan 9:50 Damn, dude, did you bring-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:50 And-

Joe Rogan 9:51 ... some water? How hot is it out there right now?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:52 Dude, I, I went through four bottles of water. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:54 God, that's scary.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 9:55 I actually f- I forgot my... I usually have my Camelbak that I run with and I forgot it, so I just, I stocked up on water and anyway, I was slamming water. But I was on the trail, like, I mean, way out, way out in the middle of, of the national park, right? T- totally open space and I, and I run up on this hiker and she like pu- you know, puts her backpack on the ground and she pulls the mask out and puts the mask on, whatever.

Joe Rogan 10:16 Mm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 10:16 And then, you know, and I'm like, "The trail's pretty wide."

Joe Rogan 10:18 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 10:18 Um, I didn't say anything, but it's like, it's kind of like, you know-

Joe Rogan 10:21 People are scared, man.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 10:22 I know. People are scared.

Joe Rogan 10:23 If you wanna really be scared, I'm in the middle of a book right now. My buddy Matt Stax recommended this. I wanna, I wanna tell people about this 'cause this is fucking excellent. Now, I wanna say before I say this, do not get this book if you have anxiety.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 10:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:39 Just don't. Um, it's called Survivor Song. It's a novel by Paul Tremblay. I guess that's how you say his name, Paul Tremblay. It's fucking excellent, but it is terrifying and it is about a pandemic. It's about a pandemic that hits the East Coast. It's a, a fake pandemic, like, uh, a, a type of rabies that is, uh, easily spread to people.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:02 There's gotta be loads of people writing books about pandemics right now, right?

Joe Rogan 11:05 Well this obviously was written a long time ago.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:07 No, for sure, for sure.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Like I, I think... I don't know what year it came out. I don't know what it says here. I, I got the audiobook.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:12 But I just wonder if we're gonna reach a saturation point on the topic where people are like, "I'm not touching a book that has anything to do with the pandemic." You know, after thinking-

Joe Rogan 11:19 Some people.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:19 ... after thinking about it for years.

Joe Rogan 11:21 Some people. Yeah, but that's just... Some people are just... They, they're angry. You know, like I had a friend who was across the st- my friend Bridget Phetasy, she was across the street from someone without a mask. No one around her. Someone on the other side of the street started screaming at her, "Put on your fucking mask! Put your fucking mask on!" Like, no one anywhere near them, across the street.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:46 People are losing their marbles.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 11:47 That's... I know. Well, it's, it's, uh, classic Foucault, right? We, we all start policing each other.

Joe Rogan 11:52 Yeah. Well, it's also people's anxiety and insecurity and people that are mo- emotionally and mentally unstable, now is their time to shine 'cause this is like, this is like what they've been... What people, like p- preppers, I would imagine, what prep... And I'm not saying all preppers are emotionally unstable, but what preppers have been looking for is this moment where all of their anxiety and all of this, uh, paranoia actually comes to fruition. Like, "See, I told you so."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:18 Yeah, right. No, the, the justification-

Joe Rogan 12:20 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:20 ... uh, for the prepping. But I think a lot of that comes from-... uh, feeling belittled, right? Like they, they've been mocked, they've been made fun of.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Sure.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:29 They've been, you know. People are, people were, prior to the pandemic, embarrassed to admit that they were prepping, you know?

Joe Rogan 12:36 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:36 Um, I mean-

Joe Rogan 12:37 Which is odd.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:38 Yeah. In fact, (laughs) I've been working on this book for three years and about a month into the pandemic, I get this email from my brother, who's here with me right now, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, you know, just so you know, I've got a, I've got a storage unit with some masks and some food." And I, and I'm like, "What? You didn't, you didn't think you might mention that to me?"

Joe Rogan 12:56 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 12:57 You know? Like... But, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, uh, sort of deemed, it's almost deemed pathological, right? Like people-

Joe Rogan 13:04 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:04 ... equate prepping to hoarding.

Joe Rogan 13:06 Yeah. Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:06 It's like, "Why do you need all that stuff?" You know?

Joe Rogan 13:07 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:08 But the thing is, if you... (sighs) In order to not stockpile in that way, right, you have to have so much faith in capitalism. You have to have so much faith in our social systems. You have to have, uh, faith that everything is gonna hold together roughly in the way that it is right now.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:24 And, of course, the world that we built, the society that we built is, is incredibly new, right? You only have to go back a few hundred years and it's like, if you weren't stockpiling, you were effectively committing suicide. You couldn't make it through winter, right?

Joe Rogan 13:35 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:35 'Cause people are growing their own food, raising their own animals. Now, it's like we ha- we have this expectation that you're gonna be able to, you know, order your takeout or, you know, go to the grocery store and, and stock up. You know, think about this. Imagine this scenario. Imagine that the, that the lethality rate on this virus was like 10%.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 13:55 Right? What, like what do you have to do to convince those grocery store workers to come to work at that point?

Joe Rogan 14:01 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:01 No one's coming to work.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Exactly.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:02 No one's driving the trucks. No one's gonna deliver anything. And then what preppers would say is, "We're 72 hours to anarchy," or, "72 hours to animal," right? It's like y- once you shut down those kind of supply lines, right, our entire mentality starts to shift into a different mode.

Joe Rogan 14:17 Yeah. Yup-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:18 And it doesn't take long before you think, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna take something from my neighbor at this point. I'm hungry. My family's hungry."

Joe Rogan 14:23 Sure. Yeah. I mean, it's, it gets real scary. Or cooperate with your neighbor, hopefully.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:28 You know, um, I, uh, I hunt, so I have a lot of meat. And so, um, one of the things that happened during the pandemic when it hit, I s- I had a lot of people come over and I, I gave them meat 'cause I have, uh, three commercial freezers here at the studio. Like, you, you know, if you shoot an elk, a elk's 400 pounds of meat.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:47 That's a lot of meat, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:48 It's, the great thing is as long as the power stays on and I have electricity, I have frozen meat. So I can, I can give a lot of it out.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:55 So you got a backup generator?

Joe Rogan 14:56 Yeah, I do. But it's-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 14:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:57 I'm not a prepper, you know, but I'm prepared in some ways, and then when all this came down, basically all I did is I stockpiled on a lot of dried stuff like rice, pasta, things that, you know, you can cook easily. And then-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:12 Well, that, that's the thing is people get fixated on prepping as this kind of, you know, "I built a multimillion dollar bunker," or whatever.

Joe Rogan 15:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:18 Whatever spectacular stories that people hear, which, you know, I'm happy to, happy to verify if you (laughs) wanna go, get into those. But, um, you know, mo- like prepping on a, on a practical level, like everyday prepping is just, it's just common sense. You know?

Joe Rogan 15:31 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:32 Just having, you know-

Joe Rogan 15:33 Having enough food to last a few days.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:35 And thinking through, you know, what, what might happen, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:38 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:38 In a, in a blackout or the, you know, the tap's not working or whatever.

Joe Rogan 15:40 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:40 These things do happen.

Joe Rogan 15:42 Yeah. They do happen. And, but it w- I wanted to get into the psychology of prepping, prepping, because it seems to be conflated with, uh, conspiracy theorists-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 15:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:53 ... in some way. Like, uh, preppers or, uh, it's the tinfoil hat brigade. It's like tho- those, those type of folks, folks who think 5G is causing COVID. You know what I mean?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Like it, there's, for whatever reason, prepping, which should be just, uh, prudence, you know, common sense, preparing, you know, having something that can purify your water if everything goes weird.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:15 You know? I mean-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:15 Going, going camping every once in a while just to get a sense of what it's like to be outdoors.

Joe Rogan 16:19 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:19 You know, and pop your tent and pull your water out of a river and, you know, it's great to have those practical skills.

Joe Rogan 16:24 Yeah. It's f- Camping is fun as long as you know it's not permanent. Isn't that weird? (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:29 Well, so, I mean, and this is the thing about disaster, right, is that if, uh, if it has an endpoint, it's something that we can cope with, right? It, you know-

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:38 So, so take nuclear war, for example, right? Like let's say, let's say we get a, a text message on our phone. Remember in Hawaii in 2018, everyone got that message-

Joe Rogan 16:48 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:48 ... that the ballistic missile was incoming, right?

Joe Rogan 16:50 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 16:50 So imagine we get that message right now and you're like, "Well, Brad, we, we actually have a bunker underneath this, this studio," right? So you go into the bunker and, uh, but we know a- after LA's nuked, right, and it's gone, that if we stay in this bunker for 14 days, the radiation levels are gonna be a fraction of what they were when that nuke hit, right? So, so you have an endpoint there. We have to make it to day 14, and that's why people are able to psychologically cope with it. Whereas, you know, the situation we're in right now, like what did, we have, when is the endpoint? Like, that's why people are cracking.

Joe Rogan 17:24 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 17:25 'Cause they, they can't see the end of it.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Right. Well, they're cracking for a bunch of reasons.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:29 First of all, they're cracking 'cause the economic stability is nonexistent. It's gone. 50% of all restaurants are dead, you know?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 17:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:36 I mean, how many retail shops are dead? It's, it's terrible. Ra- uh, Yelp had some, uh, statistic the other day that I was reading online about all the different businesses that have been impacted. We don't even know what's happening with comedy clubs. It's just guesswork right now. But I think in Los Angeles, a lot of them are probably gonna wind up going under. Across the country, a lot of them are gonna wind up going under. Restaurants, um, I had, uh, uh, the owners of Felix and, uh, the head chef, Evan, and the owner, Janet, on the, the podcast recently, and they were explaining how the, uh, uh, Felix is a really great restaurant in Venice, that almost every restaurant operates with a very small amount of profit, you know, the, their profit margin. What did she say, like 15%, 14%, something like that?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 18:21 Yeah, it's, um, it sounds right. I think so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:23 So imagine, all the sudden, that's cut to zero for several months and then you're asked to occupy 50% of your restaurant, which is obviously going to diminish your profits radically as well. It's like, it's like, uh, just a survival game and there's no end in sight, right? So here we are in July, no one anticipated this in March. We thought, you know, by the time June rolls around, everything's going to be up and running. No. Here we are July, everything's locked down again and, and, and there's even talk of another stay-at-home order in Los Angeles, which is even scarier.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 18:54 So, so let's get back to your conspiracy theories.

Joe Rogan 18:57 Okay.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 18:57 If someone told you that we would be in this situation a year ago, would you have believed them?

Joe Rogan 19:03 Sure.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 19:04 You would have?

Joe Rogan 19:04 I would have, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 19:05 'Cause the pandemic seemed like a realistic scenario to you?

Joe Rogan 19:07 Well, because I've been to the Center for Disease Control.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 19:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:09 I, um, went to Galveston, Texas for the Center of Disease Control for a show that I did with my friend, Duncan. And, uh, Duncan Trussell and I went down there and we talked to these doctors that work with these viruses, and they scared the shit out of us. We d- we went down there to, f- for a television show that we were doing for Syfy, and it was basically on the idea of weaponized viruses. The, the, the basic premise of the show was what if someone engineered a virus and released it on our, on, you know, on the country, like a weaponized virus. And they said, "That's not what we have to worry about. What we have to worry about is nature. That's what we have to worry about." Turns out both.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 19:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:44 Because this virus most likely had been leaked from a lab, what we're dealing with, with COVID-19, according to my friend, Brett Weinstein, who is a biologist, and he detailed on a podcast that I did with him all of the different points of, uh, of evidence that, that lead to what he believes is a, a very likely scenario, that it was released from, accidentally released from a, a, a, a lab and not actually from a wet market, that the wet market's the cover-up. It's like the, the disease is too advanced. It, it has too many hallmarks and indicators of, uh, a virus that had been tampered with for study, for, uh, for, y- for study in a lab and for the examinations and all the, the different tests that they would run. And, uh, so you got both those things, right? You have, you have, um, the possibility of something just morphing in nature, like many other pandemics that have happened in the past, and then what we have now, which is this weird virus that doesn't make any sense. And we were talking about all the different, d- different symptoms that people get from it, neurological problems, blood clotting. I was reading this article where they were saying that, uh, the people that have died from, uh, COVID, when they've done autopsies on them, they found blood clots in every major organ. And they, they, they're like, "This is astonishing. Like, this is so weird."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 20:59 Yeah, it does seem very unpredictable.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Lungs, liver, kidney, bl- just blood clots everywhere. It's like, uh, people are hemorrhaging. It's, it's very strange. It's a strange fucking virus. And the am- uh, the transmissibility, is that a word?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 21:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:14 The, uh, the, the, the ease of transmission is terrifying. It's so, it's so contagious. It's a ridiculously contagious virus. So once we went to that Center for Disease Control, I started getting scared. I saw the 2015 Bill Gates TED Talk on, uh, pandemics and about the, the possibility of a pandemic and I got scared of it too. So I would have thought it's possible, yeah. I w- I would never would have thought it's impossible.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 21:40 So here's the thing, regardless of, of where this virus came from, you have to imagine that, uh, there are governments and individuals, uh, who are now keyed in to how effective this visit- this virus was at cripple- crippling, uh, capitalist economies, right?

Joe Rogan 21:56 Sure.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 21:57 Because it's b- the thing, the thing is, we created COVID's pathways, right? I mean, it's international flights, it's international trade, it's people moving around, it's, it's, you know, the neoliberal, uh, global capitalist system that we built over the past 30 years that created the pathways that, that, that took the virus everywhere at once, right?

Joe Rogan 22:15 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 22:16 So if this were to be a test run, (laughs) um, it's now proven to be extremely effective. And so you have to imagine the governments around the world, probably including the United States, are thinking, "Well, what e- you know, how could we, how could we weaponize this, potentially?" And this is the thing, the, I mean-

Joe Rogan 22:34 I don't know if the United States is thinking that, but I would imagine-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 22:35 Well, I don't, I don't, I don't know either, but the thing is, we, you know, the threats, existential threats that, uh, we face now have been multiplied exponentially, right?

Joe Rogan 22:45 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 22:45 In the past, in the past, you know, post-World War II, right? We had ... I mean, this is the first sort of global catastrophe, right? You know, World, World Wars, right? But then once we developed nuclear weapons, and we're, we're just past the 75th anniversary of the, the Trinity test now. Uh, you know, once we create that ability to destroy ourselves and potentially the entire world, we have to live with th- with the possibility of that happening, right? Now, stack on top of that artificial intelligence, climate change, you know, synthetic biotech. Uh, all o- all of these threats that we face are, are something that we have to kind of hold in our heads all the time, and I think it's cracking us-

Joe Rogan 23:22 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 23:22 ... mentally, to like, think about these possibilities. So, um, yeah, I mean, some of the preppers are conspiracy theorists, right? (laughs) And they're s- they're spinning some really outlandish scenarios. Um, but a lot of them are just trying to work through these things, right? And rather than get caught in this kind of perpetual future tense, like, you know, uh, thinking about something terrible happening, they're trying to take action now in the present, and that gives them some sense of, of, of peace, right?

Joe Rogan 23:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 23:49 Like it g- it gives them a sense of like ... It gives them some solid footing in the present. And a lot of the preppers I talked to were, um, uh, are not actually very anxious or paranoid at all, right? (laughs) Because they have a plan. It's those of us who don't have a plan that are, that are anxious.

Joe Rogan 24:07 D- well, you, you've talked to them post, post, po- yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 Um, have ... Do they feel vindicated?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:14 Uh, no, not really.

Joe Rogan 24:16 No?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:16 I ... What, what most of them have told me is that this was a mid-level crisis. This-

Joe Rogan 24:20 Well, they're right about that, right? I mean, if Yellowstone blows, this is gonna look like a cakewalk.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:25 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 24:26 If we get hit with an asteroid, th- I mean, it's a wrap for humanity.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:30 If there's a solar flare that takes out the power grid, we got real problems.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:34 This is minor in comparison when you look at the-... the actual fatality rate for healthy people, it's very, very low. You know, it's less than 1%, much less than half of 1% for, for most healthy people. So when you look at what, what could happen if Yellowstone blows, that's a continent-killer.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:57 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:57 I mean-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 24:58 I mean, we're talking about volcanic, volcanic ash clouding the sky. And -

Joe Rogan 25:02 Nuclear winter.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:03 Yeah, killing-

Joe Rogan 25:03 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:03 ... killing crops, all over-

Joe Rogan 25:04 Killing everything.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:05 ... all over the United States.

Joe Rogan 25:06 All over the world.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:06 Yeah. I mean being-

Joe Rogan 25:08 I mean, you gotta have a jet and go to New Zealand, like instantly. (laughs) I mean, it's like, you've-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:13 I mean-

Joe Rogan 25:13 ... I don't even know if that's-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:14 It's... New Zealand is in a volcanic zone. I mean, this... Like, this is one of the great, uh, red herrings of our time that, you know, that all of these wealthy people are gonna flee to New Zealand and find safety there. I mean, I also find it totally ironic that a lot of them are sort of, you know, libertarian free market capitalists that are quite happy to make money off this system, but when shit goes wrong, they want a really strong government to clamp down and take care of it, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:36 Is that what they want? I think they just want a remote place to escape with a small amount of people and a lot of, uh, wildlife resources and real natural beauty. Look, new Zealand's gorgeous.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:47 New Zealand's fantastic. I've-

Joe Rogan 25:48 I have friends who go there every year.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:49 Yeah, I've spent a lot of time there. Since I was-

Joe Rogan 25:51 Matt Lauer bought a crazy farm out there. He's got like a giant ranch.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:55 Well, that's... You know, it's, it's got the qualities-

Joe Rogan 25:57 I was like, "Why doesn't that guy move there?"

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:57 It's got, you know, clean water-

Joe Rogan 25:59 (laughs) Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 25:59 ... it's, it's English-speaking.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 26:00 It's got a stable government. You know, all of that, so...

Joe Rogan 26:02 Abundance of wildlife and no predators. They got a... It's a weird situation over there. It's a hunter's paradise-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 26:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:09 ... apparently, because, um, well, sort of. It's really... (sighs) It's... It depends on your philosophy, but most, most hunters that are, I would say, that... If you, if you look at, like, what, what the idea of hunting is, the idea of hunting is supposed to be you get your, your resources, your meat from the natural world. I want there to be a balance in the natural world. There's no balance in New Zealand. In New Zealand, they have to helicopter over these stags and gun them down because they're overpopulated. Because they, they literally get to the point where they worry about diseases and there's no predators there. What... Do you know the whole s- the whole history of how it's, uh, populated with animals?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 26:57 No, I don't.

Joe Rogan 26:58 It was... They were brought over there by the Europeans in 1800s as a, like a hunting sanctuary. They brought over stag and all these animals that don't exist in there. Red deer, all these, these, uh, these invasive animals. But then they don't have any way to control their population. So they have these like fucking huge herds of these animals roaming over the fields. Luckily, there's not a lot of people, but there's a lot of controversy behind it. Like, one, there's one recently that's going on right now I should tell people about. There's an animal called a tahr. Have you ever heard of a tahr?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 27:32 No.

Joe Rogan 27:32 T-A-H-R. It's a fascinating animal 'cause it looks like it's straight outta Star Wars. Um-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 27:37 I was gonna say, it sounds like it's from Star Wars, a tahr.

Joe Rogan 27:39 I think it's an Asiatic animal, I think. I think it's native to, like, the, the Alps or some sh-... I forget where it's from. Here, Himalaya. Yeah, there it is. Okay. It's a large... It's fucking weird-looking, man. It's this crazy hairy-looking... Take in that picture right there. Yeah, bam. Go large with that. Look at that fucking thing.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 28:00 What?

Joe Rogan 28:01 Yes. Look at that thing. It's amazing. Well, one of the best... First of all, it's a delicious animal and, um, they are in New Zealand. And they're very difficult to hunt because they live in these, like, really high altitude, rocky areas that are very difficult to traverse, very hard for hunters to get to them. It's extremely dangerous. A good buddy of mine, Adam Greentree, was hunting one and he fell and got really badly injured, and he had to get helicoptered out of there, and he was by himself. Really hard animal to get to. Well, they've decided recently, it's a very controversial decision, to eradicate them. So they're gonna, um... Even though there's this like, this really thriving, uh, industry where all these people's livelihood depends on this animal, uh, these people in these rural communities, these peop-... Hunting guides, all these different people that live off of these animals, they've decided for whatever reason, I'm not exactly sure what the reason is, but the New Zealand government has decided to eradicate these animals and it's-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:03 It's, it's gotta be this fantasy of getting back to the kind of precolonial past, right? Like, if you eradicate all the animals that were brought in with colonization, and you, you can get back to some kind of like indigenous stasis or whatever. I mean-

Joe Rogan 29:16 Maybe.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:16 ... I don't know. It seems like-

Joe Rogan 29:16 They would have to bring back the Haast eagle. There, they're, there's an enormous eagle that used to hunt humans that lived on New Zealand. They're the, the largest eagle that ever lived, lived in New Zealand, and they believe that the, uh, Polynesian people wound up killing them all.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:30 Well, you gotta go, you gotta go to Jurassic Park and get the DNA and resurrect that thing, man.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Is that Polynesian people? Who the fuck lived in... It's not Polynesian people. Who, who are the original settlers of New Zealand?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:38 The, the Maori.

Joe Rogan 29:39 The Maori.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:40 Right? Are they considered Polynesian?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:42 Uh, I think they were... Yeah, I think they were Polynesian sailors that landed there.

Joe Rogan 29:46 We're so white.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:47 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 29:47 We don't give a shit. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:50 Polynesians are fucking incredible, though. If you think about the fact those people figured out how to get in a boat and go to literally the most remote spot in the world with, which is Hawaii.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 29:59 Dude, have you ever seen their maps that are made out of sticks?

Joe Rogan 30:02 No.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:02 Dude, they have... They're, so they're these, uh, they're 3D maps that are made from, like, sticks put together, and they can tell wind and air currents, and they can read the stars with them. That's how they navigated with these.

Joe Rogan 30:11 Really?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:12 Whoa.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:13 Yeah, they're fantastic.

Joe Rogan 30:13 Where did you see one?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:15 Uh, I don't know. Well, actually, my, my, uh... I did my master's degree in maritime archeology, so I probably picked that up during that degree at some point.

Joe Rogan 30:22 So you, you did, uh, some of your studies was, were in Sydney, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:27 Yeah, I sta-... I started... I actually started here, um, at the University of California. I did anthropology and history. I went to Australia to do a degree in maritime archeology, and then I went to London to do a PhD in cultural geography.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Oh, wow.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:40 So I've ha- I've hopped four disciplines. Uh-

Joe Rogan 30:42 Did you get anything, Jamie?Let me see what this looks like.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:45 This way. Yeah, this way.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Holy-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:46 Yeah, look at those things.

Joe Rogan 30:46 ... shit.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:47 They're sweet, right?

Joe Rogan 30:49 Wow.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:50 I-

Joe Rogan 30:50 What is that even?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:51 Obviously, I have absolutely no idea how to-

Joe Rogan 30:53 Oh, my God.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:53 ... how to read those things.

Joe Rogan 30:54 That's so weird.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:56 See, the thing-

Joe Rogan 30:56 So how do they tie them together, with twine, or like, what is ...

Dr. Bradley Garrett 30:59 Yeah, I think it's twine.

Joe Rogan 31:01 And what are those images supposed to represent? What is that?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:05 It's, it's the, it's like, it's the wind, the tides, and the stars. I think there's-

Joe Rogan 31:08 What does that word ... Hold on. Scroll up. Micronesian?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Whoa. Micronesian s- You ever heard of that word?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:15 Yeah, Micronesian. So that, Micronesia's like, um, uh, uh, Chuuk. What are those four islands? Uh, Truk Lagoon, that's in Chuuk, and I can't remember the other islands, but ...

Joe Rogan 31:26 Look at, look how crazy that is.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:28 God, I love learning new shit.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:30 So here's the thing, right, is that, is that one of the things-

Joe Rogan 31:32 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:33 ... that preppers are into is like, rec- recovering these kinds of skills. So, you know, trying to learn how these things work and building them again. Uh, when I was at the University of California, I did two years of lithic technology, where I, I wo- you know, I can make, uh, arrowheads, stone tools-

Joe Rogan 31:47 Can you really?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:48 ... at- at- atlatl darts-

Joe Rogan 31:49 Can you do all that stuff?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:49 ... axes. Yeah, I spent years doing that stuff.

Joe Rogan 31:50 You know how to make an atlatl?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Really?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:53 Can you throw one? Do you know how to do it?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:54 Yes. Yeah, dude (laughs) we threw one at, at UC Riverside-

Joe Rogan 31:57 Yeah?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 31:57 ... where I was studying. Yeah, we made this atlatl dart, and then we sort of like, you know, cleared out the, the, the kind of alleyway in the experimental archeology lab where we were working. We were chucking this atlatl dart down those middle-

Joe Rogan 32:08 Indoors or outdoors?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:08 We probably couldn't get away with that now, but-

Joe Rogan 32:10 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:10 ... outdoors.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Probably not.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:11 Outdoors.

Joe Rogan 32:11 Outdoors. Now, when they taught you how to do all this stuff, uh, when, when they're talking about like building ancient arrowheads, is the, uh, technology behind creating those, the, the craftsmanship, is it, uh, theoretical or are they getting it down from the, the people that w- where the knowledge has been handed down?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:31 Oh, it's definitely the case that the knowledge is being handed down. Um, and what's really interesting is that, is that, uh ... I know you talked to Graham Hancock, but like, the, the ... (laughs) So the, the earliest, uh, uh, spear points that we think are the, are, are evidence of the earliest occupation of the Americas, these are, um, Clovis. So h- he talked about Clovis cultures, right?

Joe Rogan 32:53 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:53 Those Clovis points are so hard to make, dude.

Joe Rogan 32:56 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 32:56 And they're, they're making these like 12, 13,000 years ago. So, so it's essentially, uh, you take ... You get a piece of rock, right, and you have to flatten the rock first, right? So you've gotta send flakes with a hammerstone across the rock and create like a ridge down the middle.

Joe Rogan 33:11 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 33:11 And then in one strike, you take that whole ridge off, and you create this flat expanse down the middle of the spear point.

Joe Rogan 33:18 With one strike.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 33:19 Yeah, and that's what you, that's what you haft the shaft to with some sinew or whatever. But the thing is that that one strike, you have to do it on both sides, right? You have to make a flat edge on both sides down the middle of the spear point. It almost always cracks the thing in half.

Joe Rogan 33:34 And what is the material that you're using for the striker, and what is the material you're using for the arrowhead?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 33:40 So if ... The, the easiest stone, uh, to flint knap with is obsidian. It's got a really, really high, uh, silica value in it, and it's, it's highly heated. So it's, it's like glass, right? And that's what, um, the Aztecs were, were, uh, making their weapons out of, too. So you can see, you can see obsidian weapons all up and down, uh, North, Central, and South America. Um, but you can also work with like flint or chert. Those things are a l- little trickier, right?

Joe Rogan 34:07 They're all over Texas. The Comanche left so many arrowheads. Uh, go to Gary Clark Jr's Instagram page. He has a fucking perfect arrowhead that they found on, uh, a friend of his ranch. It's, it's amazing. When you, you look at this and you go, "Okay, this is probably hundreds of years ago, some guy sent this in-" Look at that. Look how perfect that is.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:30 Oh, that's gorgeous.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Look how perfect it is. It's perfect.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:34 Dude, I'll make you one. (laughs) I could, I could make you-

Joe Rogan 34:35 Well, I would, I would appreciate that.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:37 But I re- I found one once. I was hunting in, uh, Nevada. I was, uh, doing a high country mule deer hunt and I found one, and I fucking lost it. I don't know what happened. But it was just ... It was a chunk. It had broken. But that one, go back to that one again real quick. That's perfect.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:54 I mean, look at the-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:55 Oh, it's really nice.

Joe Rogan 34:56 I- it's, it's not damaged at all.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 34:59 So what you see-

Joe Rogan 35:00 What do you think m- it's ma- that's made out of?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:02 Uh, I think that chert. So chert often has this kind of chalky exterior that you gotta get off of it before you-

Joe Rogan 35:09 Chert.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:10 I've never even heard of that.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:11 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 35:12 How old do you think that is, if you had to guess?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:16 Seven, 800 years.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Blows air through closed lips ]

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:18 Think so. Check this out, man.

Joe Rogan 35:19 Blows air through closed lips ]

Dr. Bradley Garrett 35:19 One of the c- one of the coolest experiences I ever had ... So I'd, I did archeology for about five years. I excavated in, in Mexico, in the Yucatan Peninsula, in Hawaii, uh, in Australia, and in Southern and Northern California. And, uh, when I was in Mexico, we were, we were working on this old village site. It's a po- post-classic Maya site. And we're, we're digging up like ... There's just loads of pottery, right? Because think about it, if you're ... you know, you make a pot, inevitably you're gonna drop and break that thing, and what do you do? You sweep it out the front door, you know? And so we'd find these huge, um, uh, uh, pits that are just full of, of pottery sherds. And, you know, after a while, you just become totally desensitized to it. You're just chucking them in a bag. "And oh, here's what I found. 10 more," or whatever. And then I (laughs) one of them I pulled out and it had a fingerprint in it.

Joe Rogan 36:08 Blows air through closed lips ] Wow.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 36:09 Oh, dude. And I'm looking at the thing, and it's like, y- su-

Joe Rogan 36:13 It's, like, pressed into the clay?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 36:14 Su- Yeah. Suddenly, I've traveled through time, right? I've gone back 1,200 years, and I'm sitting there with w- you know, sitting there with this person in their house with their thumbprint pressed into this thing. It really unnerved me.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Blows air through closed lips ] Wow.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 36:27 I mean, you know, in, in archeological terms, meh, you know. It d- it doesn't actually tell us that much. We got, we got 10,000 pieces of those pots, but i- on a personal level, that, you know, experiencing that visceral connection to the history of humankind is unparalleled.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Right. It's 'cause you know someone made the pottery, but it's almost abstract until you see that fingerprint.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 36:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:50 Well, that's fucking awesome. God.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 36:53 Yeah, we also... One time I found this. We were walking through the jungle. We were actually surveying... We found a temple in, in the Yucatan that, uh, like, the local people knew about, but no one from the university had seen it. And so this guy's like, "Oh, you want a temple? Yeah, there's a temple over there."

Joe Rogan 37:08 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 37:08 You got... You know, and so we're, like, hack- hacking through the bushes with our, w- through the vines with our machetes and, uh, and we come up on this temple. And I was like, "Oh, man. This is... This is crazy." Like, how many people have seen this thing in, in the past, you know, 300 years? And then there were kind of some central stairs going up the middle of the temple, and I went there and looked on the ground and there was this, like a fi- there was this figurine there. Uh, and it had, it had eyes and like a kind of a, a little hat, but it was like somebody had made this thing out of clay and pressed it together. Um, I never figured out how old that was. I mean, it could have been made more recently, but that was-

Joe Rogan 37:43 Did you take it?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 37:44 ... kind of weird. Uh, we, we bagged it and tagged it, as they say in archeology. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:49 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 37:49 It went back to the lab.

Joe Rogan 37:50 What are the rules on that? Like, if you f- if you go to a temple, if they take you to a temple and you find something that's there, what d- are you allowed to say, "I'm a scientist"?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 37:59 Well, okay. So I became really uncomfortable with the idea that, you know, because I had a degree, I had some kind of authority over other people's culture.

Joe Rogan 38:09 Right. That's why I'm asking.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 38:10 Yeah. And I, I always felt like, well, that, you know, that village that's there, that's their shit.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Right. Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 38:15 Why are we taking it? You know? Um, and obviously, it's for the advancement of knowledge and maybe it brings some benefit to their village, but we don't know.

Joe Rogan 38:22 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 38:23 So, uh, this is eventually what drove me out of archeology. Um, for my, my master's thesis, I went up to Northern California and I worked with this tribe called the Winnemem Wintu. And, uh, they... It's a, it's a pretty tragic story up there, man. They, they had been there for thousands of years and, um, you know, we, (laughs) we, Americans, decided that they were going to, uh, build a giant dam so they could have a reservoir up there, and they, and they inundated all of their ancestral homeland. So like, all of their spiritual sites, all of their graveyards, I mean, all of this stuff went under water. So I'd spent two years, uh, doing a degree in Mar- maritime archeology, I'd been diving shipwrecks all over the world, and I s- and I went up there and I said, "Let me, let me dive, let me dive in the, in the reservoir." And you know, I've got my underwater camera and I've... You know, I said, "I'll take some photos, I'll bring them back, we can have a chat about it." And the spiritual leader of the tribe, Kayleen, she says, "All right. Well, why don't you just hang out for a bit and then maybe we can do that later?" So like, days turn into weeks, and then, you know, a couple of months, and I'm getting nervous. I'm like, "I, I have to write my thesis. I have no... I don't have my... I don't have my data," right?

Joe Rogan 39:37 And during these months, you're hanging out with these people?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:39 I'm just... Yeah, I'm just hanging out there.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Are you eating dinner with them? Just chilling?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:42 Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm g-

Joe Rogan 39:43 How do you have all this time?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:44 Yeah, we actually went... Uh, well, it's p- it's the degree, right? Like, like, that's what I'm there to do. I'm doing my field work.

Joe Rogan 39:50 And you can just hang out for months?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:51 Yeah. But I'm supposed to be, like, doing research-

Joe Rogan 39:54 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:54 ... and wr- and writing a thesis, you know?

Joe Rogan 39:56 Right, right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 39:56 And so I c- I s- after a while, I press her. I'm like, "Look, I've gotta... I've gotta do something." And she said, "You know what the problem with you white people is? You're obsessed with stuff. You just wanna get your hands on the things." You know? And she said, "If you wanna know about our culture, you've been hanging out with us this whole time. What can you tell me about our culture? Like, why do you need to get that st- that, that, all that stuff that's, you know, under water out there? Why do you need that? You know, you can just talk to us." So that was sort of my bridge from moving from archeology into cultural geography.

Joe Rogan 40:28 Hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 40:29 Which is much more about, you know, thinking about people's relationships with places and landscapes and...

Joe Rogan 40:33 And their culture is documented in what way? Like, how, how are they maintaining their historical records?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 40:41 Well, that's what... This was actually my, one of my first academic articles is I, I wrote about how a lot of their religious ceremonies had changed because the places that they used to go were now under water, right? So in, so in one case, there was this, uh, there was a rock, um, that young women went to as part of a puberty ceremony, and it used to be above water and they had that ceremony in the spring, but now when the, uh, that's when the, uh, the waters are high, right? So now they do it in sort of drought seasons so that they can still get to the rock. And so they had, they had changed the whole kind of, you know, (laughs) cultural, their cultural fabric had been altered by that inundation event.

Joe Rogan 41:23 Hmm. Hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 41:24 And basically, you know, the point that she was tr- trying to get across to me was like, "That didn't break us. Like, we're still us, even e- even though these things have had to change." You know? And that... I- it was an education for me as an archeologist because, you know, when you, when you go into a place with that very kind of like data-driven empirical mindset, you know, you want, you want hard facts that, (laughs) that make sense, that you know, that you can, you can write up clearly. And, and what she was telling me was something that was a little bit more... It was more nuanced. It, you know, it was difficult to pin down. It was more, you know, qualitative, right? And so I had to, I had to grapple with that, and that was a, that was a big learning lesson for me.

Joe Rogan 42:02 So in this... But when you're dealing with things that are more nuanced, you, you still need to kind of know what happened and when it happened. So how were they keeping records of what happened and when it happened?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:17 Well, they had oral histories, but I could or-

Joe Rogan 42:18 Oral histories.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:19 Yeah. But I could also go to, um, uh, the, uh, Bureau of Reclamation, the Forest Service, you know, they were... I w- I wa- I was actually working for the Bureau of Land Management at that time.

Joe Rogan 42:30 R- but, but I mean, internally-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:30 So, so those federal agencies have records of what happened.

Joe Rogan 42:33 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:34 With, I mean, you know, with the building of the dam and what was recorded beforehand and all of that.

Joe Rogan 42:38 Which is kinda fucked that they did that, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:40 But of the... But I'm, but I mean internally, I mean, in the tribe, i- everything is orally?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 42:46 Yeah. I g- you know, there's probably more people writing things down now these days, but you know, they've got oral histories that go back a long time. When I was in Australia, get this, man, I, I, I was, uh, um, talking to...... uh, an aboriginal clan out there, and they were telling me that in the Sydney Harbor, they can actually tell ... like, they can draw you a map of what is underwater in the Sydney Harbor because they have a cultural memory of when that wasn't underwater that goes back tens of thousands of years, and they have passed that down. They actually retain that memory.

Joe Rogan 43:18 So, they have a pre-Ice Age memory when the oceans were less deep.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:24 Yeah, I don't know if it's pre-Ice Age, but the, the water levels were-

Joe Rogan 43:28 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:28 ... you know? Yeah. The water levels were-

Joe Rogan 43:29 So, the water levels were lower. It has to be pre-Ice Age if it's before 10,000 years.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:33 Right? So, these people had this idea of what was going on, and they just kept passing it down generation to generation.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:41 And this ... How accurate is their, their, their memory of it?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:46 I don't know. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure people are doing research on that. But, you know, if the- if you look at those, those, um, uh, the dot drawings, you know, those, like, traditional paintings that you see, uh, that are often paintings of landscapes.

Joe Rogan 43:59 Uh-huh.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 43:59 Some of those have been mapped onto, uh, you know, aerial imagery, and they're startlingly accurate. Right? And so, you have to wonder i- ... like, how, how did people who didn't have those aerial views get that view down on the landscape?

Joe Rogan 44:16 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 44:16 Right? I mean-

Joe Rogan 44:18 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 44:19 ... yeah, do you, do you stitch that together by just knowing the place so well that you kind- ... you can kind of depict it in that way, or is there some kind of ... I mean, you can get all hippy-dippy about it, and it's about astral projection. Or people were, like, taking hallucinogenics and flying across the landscape, or what ... you know.

Joe Rogan 44:34 Yeah. It's ... When you look at ancient maps that are really accurate, it's- it really is kind of amazing that they did all this stuff from a, uh, land level. And they did- they did it f- ... looking down. They, they figured out from traversing, going around the circumference of a continent, you know. When they, when they, when they would do that, if they would go around the outside of a continent and mark it, and then you look at it and it's stunningly similar to what we take today with satellite imagery, that really is amazing.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:05 It is amazing. And, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about how, how advanced we are now, right? How ... like-

Joe Rogan 45:10 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:10 ... what, what we've done with technology, but we don't talk a lot about all these skills that we've lost.

Joe Rogan 45:14 Sure.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:15 You know? Um, so that's why I like going out into the landscape. I, I love going out for a couple of days just hik- ... you know, hiking through the woods with a compass, you know, figuring it out. Leave- turn the phone off, leave it at home, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:25 I mean, give someone a sextant and tell them, "Figure your way across the ocean."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:29 Right. Yeah, "Good luck."

Joe Rogan 45:30 Right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:30 I mean, the- just looking at one of those things. Or how about that, um, ancient Greek computer thing? What is that called?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:38 Oh, the a- the anti- abacus?

Joe Rogan 45:39 The anti- ... No, no, no.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 45:40 No.

Joe Rogan 45:40 That's a counting thing. The, the, the ... That, that ... There's a device that they found that consists of, uh, a myriad of moving gears that took forever for them to try to understand exa- ... It's called the anti-th- ... Ugh, I'm gonna fuck up the word. You know what I'm talking about, Jamie? Yeah, I know what it is. Yeah. Jamie knows what I'm talking about. I know what it is. Th- there's this, this thing that they found that's intensely complex, and it's thousands of years old. And they found it in a shipwreck, and, um, they had to, to try to back engineer what this fucking thing is and how it worked, but- It's a astrolabe, I think, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 46:19 Astrolabe.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Um, I don't think ... There's an actual- Two-dimensional model of the celestial sphere. That's, that's really cool. That's cool. That is a different thing, though. I- I- it is really cool. Pretty amazing. Um, the original smartphone. That's funny. But, no. (laughs) There's ... It's, uh ... It's a- an ancient Greek ... Essentially, it's an ancient computer. Just pull up ancient computer, anti-th- That's what I ... I mean, I typed in "ancient Greek ocean exploration tool," and- No, no, no, but it's not that. Okay. It's not an ocean explanati- exploration tool. Oh, okay. It's actually like a computer. It's an ... Goddamn it. I w- wish I wrote it down. It's, um ... The word is anti- ... That's it. That's it. Oh, the Antikythera thing. Yeah. Chysera. Antikythera. That's it. So, click on that thing. They found that, and they're like, "Okay, what in the fuck is this?" And this anti- ... Go ... So I can read it? An- Antikythera mechanism, a 2,000-year-old computer, and they found this. And, uh, they had to try to figure out what this is. And see how they've kind of 3D mapped it and, and reimagined-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 47:29 Whoa, that's a trip.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Yeah. I mean, the ... I don't even know what they used it for. Let's, let's g- ... Let's click on that. What is the anti- ... That, th- ... The article to the right on Daily Express. What's of ... Uh, oh, there. Yeah. Let's see what it says. Uh, "Google Doodle marks the discovery of the ancient Greek computer." So, this is- "Track and calculate position of the Moon, Sun." Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 47:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:54 "Position of the Moon and Sun and planets, as well as predict the dates and colors of" (laughs) "colors of" ... So, it is a celestial device. So, so are the pl- ... Yeah, in some way, but all- ... It's a computer, right? So, this thing, this 2,000-year-old device, was even capable of adding, multiplying, dividing, and subtracting. So, they found it in, uh, May 17th, 1902 in, uh ... It was discovered, uh, in a Roman cargo shipwreck. For years, they were baffled by the purpose of the mysterious object and initially assumed the mechanism was a gear or wheel, but the archeologists soon discovered that the device was a complex machine capable of various fac- factions. The Antikythera mechanism gathered interest in 1950s, and its complexity, function, and computational powers has led it to be dubbed the first ever computer.Fucking crazy.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:45 Don't- don't you wonder how much stuff we have lost?

Joe Rogan 48:47 Oh, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:48 You know, or how much stuff is still in the ground?

Joe Rogan 48:50 Oh, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:50 I mean, that kind of haunts me. I co- you know-

Joe Rogan 48:52 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:52 ... you could go crazy thinking about when the (laughs) when humanity's gonna start-

Joe Rogan 48:55 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:55 ... digging up everything and try and unveil these ancient mysteries.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Well, you really could.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 48:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:59 You know, particularly when you think about, um, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with, uh, you- you said you know about Randall Carl- uh, Graham Hancock, but did you know about Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, the two of them sort of combined their, uh, their data and their research. And Randall Carlson is an expert in astrological, uh, or, uh, oh, it's, excuse me, uh, asteroidal or m- meteorological impacts. What would you say? Meteor impacts?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 49:22 Right. Uh, asteroid impacts. I think once-

Joe Rogan 49:24 Asteroid impacts.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 49:24 ... I think once it hits the Earth, it's an asteroid.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Yeah. Um, and he is a proponent of this theory that is gaining a lot of traction that the Ice Age ended abruptly because of an impact. And it's, uh, it coincides with soil samples, with, um, these, um, samples that they've shown, that show a lot of that tri- what is it called? Tritonite? Nuclear glass?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 49:47 Yeah. Th- that- Trinitite.

Joe Rogan 49:49 Trinitite. Thank you.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 49:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:50 That, from the Trinity Project, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 49:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:52 You know, they, they found this stuff, when they do core samples, somewhere in that neighborhood of 12,000 years, which is the neighborhood where the Ice Age ended, scattered all throughout Europe and United States. And they believe that something happened, some sort of an impact, multiple impacts around 12,000 years ago and it ended the Ice Age abruptly and probably caused a lot of flooding and probably was the- the origin of the Epic of Gilgamesh flood story, Noah's Arc flood story, and also, why there seems to be some sort of a reset of civilization. There's a pre-12,000-years-ago technology, and then there's sort of a dead zone of several thousand years, and then things reignite again after that.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 50:37 Well, it- it- it lends credence to, um, uh, that kind of oral memory, too.

Joe Rogan 50:44 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 50:44 Right? If like, if- like, if that memory has been passed down and it's, what's left is this kind of kernel.

Joe Rogan 50:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 50:49 Right? There's like s- there's something there that we're attaching stories to, to make sense of it.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 50:55 And this is where the conspiracy theories come from, too, right? Like one of the- one of the preppers that I spoke to, um, he was actually here in California. Um, the first time I met him, he started talking about planet X.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:07 Ni- Nibiru, right?

Joe Rogan 51:08 Nibiru, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:09 Nibiru, yeah. And he wa- he s-

Joe Rogan 51:09 It's all Zecharia Sitchin. You ever read his stuff?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:11 No.

Joe Rogan 51:12 Fascinating weirdo stuff.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:14 Well, he s- so he, so he told me, you know, Nibiru is- Nibiru-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:18 ... is- is hiding behind the sun and it's going to emerge, and the last time it emerged was 4,000 years ago, and that's where the- that's where the flood story comes from, because it's gonna create a pole shift, so the North and South Pole are gonna flip, and that's what creates the tidal wave event. And so he told me that he was building his bunkers to be submerged in 200 feet of water.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Well, he might be adding to the story (laughs) .

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:40 Well, no, I mean, uh, but what's inter-

Joe Rogan 51:41 But that's part of the problem.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:42 ... but what's interesting there is you kind of, you know, there's a, there are ... With these conspiracy theories, there's always a kernel of truth, right?

Joe Rogan 51:48 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:48 There's always a kernel of something that you-

Joe Rogan 51:50 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 51:50 ... can hold onto, but then it just gets spinned in a slightly weird way. And I think what some- some of it is kind of displaced anxiety, right? 'Cause we, like, these disasters have happened. We know they have happened, we know that they will happen. We don't quite want to admit it, right?

Joe Rogan 52:04 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 52:04 But it's a lot easier to pin it on some kind of, you know, impossible event than just to decide that like the world is chaos and we have to deal with it.

Joe Rogan 52:13 Yeah, there's many, many, many points of chaos. It's not just aliens (laughs) .

Dr. Bradley Garrett 52:18 Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:19 The- Zecharia Sitchin is fascinating. You should ... I mean, I'm not saying I buy into any of his theories. But what I am saying is, what he did expose that is undeniable was the rich history of illustrations from Sumer that are really fascinating. Um, particularly the origin of the- the, uh, caduceus, the origin of the double helix DNA that seems to, uh, be ... It's ... When you look at that- that sign that- that symbolizes medicine, you know, the two snakes crossing together?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 52:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:58 That originated in ancient Sumer, and it originated with a lot of these ancient clay tablets that showed what could be ... It's- it really is open to interpretation, right? But what he interpreted, the way he interpreted it, and he's got a very extraordinarily unusual interpretation of the Sumerian text, and his interpretation of Sumerian text is that it is a historical record of these beings that came from another planet and genetically manipulated human beings. And the crazy thing is, when you look at these clay tablets and the illustrations, you see these strange things, like you th- see these godlike creatures holding these humanoid creatures that are much smaller than them with tails, they have tails like monkeys. You see the entire solar system, we're talking about 6,000-year-old clay tablets, right? Back then, the- the general consensus was that the world was flat. If you, if you had talked to, you know, many, you know, m- many people from many different cultures, they did not think that the- the solar system had a sun in the center and that there was planets that were orbiting it. Well, they had a depiction of the solar system, not just a depiction, but all of the planets in the proper order. Like, pull up the image of the Sumerian, uh, solar system. This is 6,000 years ago. Look at this picture. So these gods ... Look at that, the sun in the center, all the planets, no extra planets. All the planets.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 54:34 Is Pluto in there (laughs) ?

Joe Rogan 54:35 Um, I think it was. How many we got there? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. Well, they, uh, they counted the moon as a planet.... which is odd, and then they counted Nibiru. Nibiru is this planet that they claim, that's it right there, that's on this 3,600-year elliptical orbit.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 54:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:58 Now, there's no evidence in Nibiru, right? There's no evidence that that's true. But who knows how much of this, you know, we're getting from these people that are interpreting this language that's essentially a dead language. No one can even speak it. So how much fuckery is involved in that? I don't know. I mean, I'm a moron. I'm, I'm not a, a religious scholar. I'm not a, a, a linguist. I don't really understand this stuff. But I do know that the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is also a Sumerian tale, sh- shares a lot of similarities with the Bible.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 55:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:30 Including the similarities between the s- the flood stories, the origin stories. You know, there's, there's just a lot of weirdness to that stuff. But the fact that these people had this story of the Anunnaki, and the Anunnaki in... in... according to Sitchin, the, the literal translation is, "Those from heaven to Earth came." And that they had come here and that they had, you know, done some... and this is his interpretation, they had done... And by the way, there's a website called sitchiniswrong.com, and you can go there, and this is, uh, another scholar of, uh, Sumerian history that refutes all of his claims. Who's right, who's wrong? I don't know. But it's, it's really weird. Just the, the stuff that you can't get away from is really weird. And that's the, the solar system, the fact that they had this detailed map of the solar system. Again, y- you're talking about... when I say detailed, they scrawled it on clay tablets 6,000 years ago. But clearly, the center's the sun. It even looks like the sun. It's much larger than anything else. The sun's a million times larger than Earth. And it's just this big thing, and then you see all these things around it that are supposedly representative of Jupiter, Neptune, uh, the... um, Venus. It's... it really does look like Mars, Earth. Like, there... it really does look like this is their drawing on clay of the solar system.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 56:55 All right.

Joe Rogan 56:55 Like, how the fuck did they do that?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 56:57 Yeah. No, I-

Joe Rogan 56:57 What, what were they doing?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 56:58 Yeah. No, it's fascinating, and I, I think it's certainly worth... you know, wherever we fall on these debates, and, on-

Joe Rogan 57:03 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:03 ... it's certainly worth talking about, right? And it's worth investigating. And when I, when I started working with, with, uh, these doomsday preppers, I had... I took a lot of heat from some of my, my friends in academia, you know, saying, sa-

Joe Rogan 57:15 What did they say?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:16 Saying, well, that, you know, that they're, they're right-wingers. They've got disgusting political views. They're racist. They're misogynists. They're, they're buying into conspiracy theories. Why would you give them airtime, basically?

Joe Rogan 57:25 Let me stop right there. Why would you generalize an entire group of weirdos-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:29 Well, exactly.

Joe Rogan 57:29 ... like that? That's so crazy.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:30 Exactly, and what, but-

Joe Rogan 57:31 But, but what do you think that is, though? What is the, the motivation to do that?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:35 Well, it's, it's, it's, it's people tribalizing, right?

Joe Rogan 57:38 Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:38 It's pa- it's part of this par- partisan divide that we're experiencing. Particu-

Joe Rogan 57:41 By academics, morons.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:42 Particularly in this country.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:44 Yeah. Well, or right and left, or whatever-

Joe Rogan 57:46 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:46 ... whatever binary you wanna pick.

Joe Rogan 57:48 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 57:48 You know? And, and for... you know. I mean, we could (laughs) go over the reasons why we've ended up in this situation, but we are, um... you know, we're running headlong into, into a very partisan age.

Joe Rogan 58:00 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 58:00 And, you know, I feel like the solution to that is actually... (laughs) you know, it's, it's going and spending time with people that you disagree with, right?

Joe Rogan 58:08 Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 58:08 It's extending some empathy, right? And it's not necessarily about giving people voice, but it is about giving people space and time.

Joe Rogan 58:15 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 58:16 Right? And so, uh, y- uh, I have to be honest, you know, a lot of these preppers I hung out with, it was... it was hard to hang out with them, you know? And-

Joe Rogan 58:24 How so?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 58:25 Well, this or that. One, one of the guys, uh, you know, did this thing where every time we were meeting, he would, he would rate women as they walked by. "She's a seven. She's a nine. She's a..." you know? And it was g-... it was really hard not to interject and say, "Man, she's just grocery shopping. Leave her alone." (laughs) You know? Um, you know, the conspiracy theories were, were constant.

Joe Rogan 58:43 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 58:43 But there's also a, a kind of, uh... we can think about, about, like, people who are prepping on the everyday, like, the... you know, uh, the person who just cares about taking care of themselves and their family, and maybe they're interested in building community, right? Um, but then there are the people who are selling the antidote to their fears. I ca-... in, in the book, I call these people the dread merchants, right?

Joe Rogan 59:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:06 The people who are gonna sell you the bunker, you know? For-

Joe Rogan 59:09 Like Jim Baker and his, uh-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:10 Oh, yeah, Jim Bak-...

Joe Rogan 59:11 ... his food.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:12 Oh, man. His survival water.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Yes. How, how amazing are those-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:15 ... buckets of food that you could use as the base of a table?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:18 Oh, dude, ha-

Joe Rogan 59:19 Have you seen that whole video?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:20 I love those, and he, and he talks about using them as Porta-Johns-

Joe Rogan 59:23 Yes. Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:23 ... and, uh, yeah. He sells the Bible buckets as well. Have you ever se-

Joe Rogan 59:27 (laughs) Bible buckets? What's a Bible bucket?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:28 It's just a bucket full of Bibles-

Joe Rogan 59:30 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:30 ... you know, just, just in case, right?

Joe Rogan 59:31 Why do you need more than one Bible?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:33 I know. Yeah, well, maybe you got a big family. And-

Joe Rogan 59:35 Maybe you'll want to go Old Testament if shit gets really weird. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:39 (laughs) Have you ever seen the, the Vic Berger remixes of the Jim Bak-

Joe Rogan 59:43 Yes, I have. Yes.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:43 Oh, man. They are so much fun.

Joe Rogan 59:45 Yes, yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:45 I got really addicted to those when I was working on this project. It was kind of my... it became almost like a, um, a, a mantra, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:52 Yeah, it's like-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 59:52 Just having these running in the background.

Joe Rogan 59:54 It's so strange that he was the guy that was attached to the Jessica Hahn controversy back in the 1980s. I mean, I... You remember that?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 Do you remember the Jim Baker? Like, he had had an affair with this woman, and it became, for whatever reason, this big news.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:11 Well, like, the s-

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 And that's the same guy. He's around today.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:13 Because, because then, we, we still expected people to be guided by their (laughs) moral compass, you know? Never-

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:18 Everyone's a hypocrite now, so we, we just-

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Right. Do you remember... and then there was Jimmy Swagger, got caught with a hooker, and he was crying, "I have sinned."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:25 Oh, yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 Do you remember that? Do you remember that? That was good.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:28 No-... yeah. No one confesses anything anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Look at that. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:31 No one admits to anything anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Spread the word, "Bible bucket." (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:33 Yes, I love that one.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Ah, a bucket of Bibles.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:38 Why not?

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 That's um... only 50 bucks?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 That's a pretty good deal. How many bi-... how many Bibles you get?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:43 24.Why? I think that's what it says.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Should we get a bucket of Bibles? I feel like we should have one at the studio.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:48 Get one. Get one.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 I feel like we should have one at the studio.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:50 I don't wanna feed the beast, but you should, you should get one.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Ah, if he gets 50 bucks from me. What the fuck are we gonna do?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:00:55 We need at least a table worth, table worth right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Right. A table's worth of Bibles.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:00 Six, six buckets? How many- Can you get- How many buckets makes a table? But that... Shouldn't we get the food? Or should we just get the Bibles? One bucket of Bibles and five buckets of food. (laughs) But his fucking food- I love watching him feed the audience-

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 You can get, from the giant trough.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:15 ... you know, from the giant trough.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 You can get real good freeze-dried food that'll last forever. You don't have to get his bullshit.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:22 Hell yeah, you can.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:24 So, um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 What the fuck? Creamy potato soup. Oh my God, look at that slop.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:29 That's disgusting. Shovel.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Yeah. Yeah, see-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:30 And he, and they do a big thing of rice, and then they just, and they mix it all together-

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 Yeah, um-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:34 ... and the big bucket of slop is poured on top of it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 Google peakrefuel.com. This is my friend Chad Mendez, has a really delicious, um, company that they, they make actual... I think it, is it freeze-dried? I think his stuff is freeze-dried or dehydrated. I'm not sure. But the people are doing it now-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:01:54 Freeze-dried.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah. People are doing it now where you can keep this stuff forever. This is my buddy Chad's stuff. This is really good for you. It's actually delicious and healthy.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:02:04 Yeah, and he's doing Mylar bags too. That's, that's much better than doing buckets.

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Yes. And he's, uh, Chad is a former UFC fighter who's a great guy, who's actually a hunter and he, he makes every- everything's organic and really healthy. And, and when you reconstitute it, it actually tastes good. So you don't have to buy that Jim Baker bullshit.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:02:24 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 You can actually buy this.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:02:25 Check this out. I, I went to this, I went to a community in, just outside of Dallas and, uh, they were, this is a, a budding prepper community. And they had built this, this 50-foot fountain ringed by the four horses of the apocalypse.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 Oh, Christ. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:02:38 I mean, it's like in a ti- you know, in a rural county, in a town with like 300 people, you know, they bought all this land. It's like a, it was a square mile of land. Um, and it had these, these, uh, sort of gr- green lagoons in there that were dredged out for, for, uh, grazing cows at some point, and they were gonna revitalize these into these kind of like crystal blue lagoons with white beach sand, and they were gonna build a bunker community in there, um, called Trident Lakes. So the, the lakes are the, uh, the blue lagoons. And he told me that their, (laughs) their plan was to do a kind of outer perimeter wall around this that was gonna be a, a, a giant berm around shipping containers. So essentially, the wall would be hollow, and he said he was gonna fill it with buckets of food and whatever. And I just, I kept imagining, you know, Jim Baker's Bible buckets just lined up down the walls of this thing, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 To keep intruders out.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:03:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Just a fucking 12-foot-high wall of Bible buckets.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:03:37 But he, I, I... They had this, this ex-Navy SEAL working for them and, uh, I'm waiting to meet with the CEO who's like... He put... He's kept me there for about three days, you know, trying to, trying to interview this guy. And in the meantime, they put me on the phone with this ex-Navy SEAL and he's, uh, gonna go over their security plan with me. So he tells me about the wall and, and then they're gonna put up a chain link fence with barbed wire, and they're gonna have dogs and CCTV cameras, and they've got a kind of no man's land between the, the fence and the shipping containers, right? And, uh, uh, he told me, you know, "As a geographer, you gotta understand, you gotta control the geospace." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 Huh?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:18 The geospace.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 What's the geospace? (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:19 I don't know, man. It's just... I guess it's just space, you know? You gotta have control of it. But he said, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 Don't you love when people use extra words?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:28 I know. Yeah, but then he, but then he started going down this rabbit hole where he's like, "You know, we did some, we did some Googling."

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 Oh.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:35 "There's, there's Muslim groups in Texas."

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Oh my goodness.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:38 And I was like, "Oh, okay." And he, and he goes... "And you know, it's, it's not just Muslim groups, it's not just, just Black Lives Matter. There's white nationalists, there's p-... We don't like any of those extremist views." And I'm thinking, "Well this is, this is kind of extreme, like what you- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:04:53 ... what you guys are planning here." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 We don't like any extremists. We don't like white nationalists. That's hilarious.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:03 I met, I met some really interesting people on this project. Um, uh, you know, there were, there were, there were people who were kind of on the deep end of things.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:11 I met this one... I met one guy in Kansas. I'm sure, I'm sure a lot of your, your listeners will have run into this place, a Survival Condo in Kansas.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Oh, never heard of it. What is it?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:20 Dude, it's awesome. So they're, so there-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Survival Condo?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:22 Survival Condo.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 Is it actually a condo?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:24 It's a condo. So the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 One condo?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:26 This guy, listen to this, this guy... So there's, there's two kinds of, um, uh, nuclear missile silos from the Cold War that are in the Midwest. The first kind is a kind of, uh, horizontal one where they would lift the missile up to fire it. And then the later ones they built, the Atlas F silos, are vertical. So they're di- 200 feet deep and they had a, you know, nuclear-tipped ICBM-

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 There we go.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:48 ... intercontinental ballistic missile in there.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Jim, you found it.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:50 Yeah, so, so I meet-

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 Bunker home with a price tag of two million. Oh my God.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:54 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 Two million bucks?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:05:55 So it's fi- it's one and a half million for a half floor inside this thing, or three million for a full floor.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Why is this?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:01 But dude, dude, this guy converted the entire missile silo into a subterranean condo complex.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 So those are like LCD screens that make it look like you're outside?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Oh my God, that's so nuts.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:12 (laughs) So, and then what he told me- Wait, wait for it. Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 Hold on. (gasps) He's got a pool.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:16 Yeah, he's got a pool. With a waterfall. A beach.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Actually looks pretty dope.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:19 Dude, there's a rock wall. It's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 It's got a theater. Yeah. Pool table, rock wall-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:23 We watched, we watched 007 in there.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 ... gun range. Wow. What is that? That's where they melt the bodies. They pour lime in there.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:27 That's where... They're raising, they're raising fish in there. Tilapia. They're raising-

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Oh my goodness.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:32 Yeah. They've got an FDA-certified, uh, growing facility in there.

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Duncan went to one of these places. When I was telling you I did that television show where we went to the CDC?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 Duncan met with these people. And I don't know if it was this group, but it was real similar. Same... Penthouse. What's the penthouse? That's where Drake lives, right?... he's got a ... Some ballers probably have some sort of crazy setup up there.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:55 So get this, the guy, he's, he bought this-

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Oh. That's pretty nice.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:06:58 He bought this thing for $300,000, the missile silo.

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 Is he selling these?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:02 He ... Yeah, and he dumped, I think, 10 million.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 4.5 million?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Jesus.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:07 That's the penthouse.

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 That's fat, though. That's a fat house.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 Would you live there?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:10 Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 If you did, would you have, like, a velvet robe?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 And invite people over with a, with a, like a-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:17 S-

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 ... some Courvoisier in a snifter? Come on over.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:19 Si- sit there and smoke my pipe-

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 Yeah.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:21 ... on top of my Bible bucket.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 Cigars, don't you want cigars in a place like that? You're a baller. You don't have time for a fucking cigar. Cigars, you have to... Or a pipe, rather. Pipes, you have to relight. It's annoying.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:31 It's a str-

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 You're a mover and a shaker. You're in a condo that's $4.5 million under the ground, protecting (laughs) , protecting you from bombs.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:38 Well, so I go- ... Uh, so I'm down there, like, we're 100 feet underground.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 How'd they get their air?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:43 And I'm inside ... He's, he's got, uh, redundant filtration systems, um, pulling air from the outside. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Pulling air with a mechanism, like-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:07:52 He's got nuclear, biological and chemical air filtration systems. He's also got a volcanic ash scrubber, so if the caldera does blow, he can actually scrub the ash out of the air.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Come on.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:00 Yeah, no, serious. So hi- ... Larry Hall told me that-

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 How much ash?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:03 ... the, the, the guy who built this, Larry Hall, told me they could stay in there for five years.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 But then you're hanging out-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:08 No doubt.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 ... with Larry for five years.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 Smelling his farts.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:11 He does-

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Listening to his stupid jokes. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:13 He d- he does have a condo in there.

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 Does he?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:15 So you're not gonna escape that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 4.5 million bucks? And where is this again exactly? In the-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:19 Dude, it's in the middle of Kansas.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Kansas?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:20 It's in the middle of a bunch of cornfields. There's nothing out there at all.

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 I have a buddy who lives in Iowa right now, and I'm trying to get him to move.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 You don't wanna ... I mean, there's issues out there, man.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:31 Yeah. I mean, and one of the problems is, how do you get to it, right?

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 You're gonna have to-

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:35 I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 ... hike.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:36 Yeah, well it, it-

Joe Rogan 1:08:37 Take you weeks.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:38 But it depends on what kinda disaster you've got.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 Right, that's what I'm saying. Hike.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:41 Right. Whether you ... Yeah. He's got a, uh ... If, if you buy into one of his packages, he's got a, like, SWAT-style, uh, bulletproof vehicle.

Joe Rogan 1:08:49 Oh, great.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:49 And he'll come pick you up, you know, that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 Mm-hmm. Great. Then you're hanging out with Larry in a bulletproof vehicle.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 You're gonna have to thank him for saving your life. (laughs)

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:08:56 You know what I asked? I asked him about the security guards, right? 'Cause he's got these camouflaged security guards with, uh, ARs standing at the gates, and they ... You know, they roll the gate open when you get there, and they let you through.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:06 And I said, "Dude, what, what keeps the security guards here after the caldera blows?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Right.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:12 Or, you know, whatever. And, uh, y- you know, I asked if they had space in the bunker, and they didn't. So I, I mean, I guess you just lose your exterior security when the event-

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 They don't have a fucking security condo? Larry!

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:26 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 Stop being such a greedy fuck. He needs someone like you around to, like, give him, like, sort of a peripheral view or a, a, an objective view, rather, of the outside. Like, "Hey, Larry, you, you're missing this. You got a-"

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:38 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 "Got a hole in your theory."

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:39 So in my (laughs) , in my previous life, um-

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Look at all those ... The security people.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 They look like they're ap- ... Like a shitty fucking action movie.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 Look at these people. That's Adam Curry in the middle.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:49 They're s- they're s-

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 That's our buddy, Adam. Look at him. Close in on that guy in the middle with the black vest. That's fucking Adam Curry.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:54 I can't get any bigger.

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 That's Adam. Is that Adam Curry?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:09:59 No.

Joe Rogan 1:09:59 (laughs) That's the Podfather. He's, uh, (laughs) he's gonna do his, uh, his podcast, No Agenda, from the condo. That's what he's doing.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:10:08 Some pretty sweet trucks. Oh my God. Yeah. Big babies.

Joe Rogan 1:10:10 They are sweet.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:10:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:11 Not gonna lie, right?

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:10:12 Well, and the trucks look real deal. Those are probably staying there.

Joe Rogan 1:10:13 Those are pretty dope.

Dr. Bradley Garrett 1:10:15 I, I went to another place in Utah called Plan B Supply, and they're ... This is all they do, is they build these kind of bulletproof, armored, uh, four-wheel drive, sometimes six-wheel drive trucks. Like, they are crazy rigs. So they buy them ... A lot of them, they buy from the government, you know, the government retires equipment, and they'll just buy,