Joe Rogan Experience #1518 - David Choe

1. 0:00 – 4:43

   Back on JRE after years: nerves, vomiting, and fear of being canceled

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (laughs) Hello, David. (laughs)

   2. DCDavid Choe0:05

      (laughs) .

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      What's up, buddy?

   4. DCDavid Choe0:06

      If I leave right now, this will be the shortest-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Yeah.

   6. DCDavid Choe0:08

      ... one you've ever done.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Ever, ever now. You don't have to do this. I know you're worried you're gonna say some crazy shit, and, uh-

   8. DCDavid Choe0:15

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      ... you're going to torpedo your life. Now that you're a cult guru with strawberry blond hair. (laughs)

   10. DCDavid Choe0:21

       It's more, uh-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       Strawberry blond.

   12. DCDavid Choe0:23

       Well, I did, it's a home job. It's a-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       It's beautiful.

   14. DCDavid Choe0:25

       ... do it yourself, so it's more, um, my therapist would always say, "Lean into the discomfort, what you don't like." And I hate gingers, so I said-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       (laughs)

   16. DCDavid Choe0:33

       ... "Why don't I just become one?"

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       I'm like, your therapist says lean into discomfort?

   18. DCDavid Choe0:39

       Yeah, if- if there's something that, like, I'm in a men's group also, and they said... And I told them, I said, "I'm gonna go back on the Joe Rogan Experience after four, five, six years." I don't know when the last time I was here.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Probably five, right?

   20. DCDavid Choe0:53

       I don't know. It's been a while. And so they go, "Lean into the discomfort."

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Mm.

   22. DCDavid Choe1:00

       "Start with what you least wanna share."

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Mm.

   24. DCDavid Choe1:03

       And I go, this is me trying to-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       They don't know you that well. (laughs)

   26. DCDavid Choe1:08

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       That's fucking terrible advice for you. (laughs)

   28. DCDavid Choe1:12

       (laughs) So I sit there, I'm driving over here, and I go, "Okay, start with what I least wanna share." I pulled over on, uh, uh, Van Nuys Boulevard, and I puked.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Really?

   30. DCDavid Choe1:21

       Yeah, I puked. I-
2. 4:43 – 7:23

   Compliments as a discomfort exercise—and a custom 'Ghosts on the Beach' gift

   1. DCDavid Choe4:43

      Thank you, I appreciate that. What is your, uh, threshold with receiving compliments?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:48

      Uh, my threshold?

   3. DCDavid Choe4:49

      Yeah, what's your comfort level?

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:51

      (sighs) Oh...

   5. DCDavid Choe4:51

      I haven't seen you in a long time.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:52

      Uh, yeah, it's been a while. I don't know. Gonna get weird?

   7. DCDavid Choe4:54

      Can I give you, can I give you-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:56

      Okay.

   9. DCDavid Choe4:56

      ... five?

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       Sure. (laughs)

   11. DCDavid Choe4:57

       Okay. Um.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:00

       (laughs)

   13. DCDavid Choe5:00

       You, you're- you only look better as you get older.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       Oh, thank you.

   15. DCDavid Choe5:03

       You have a beautifully shaped skull.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       (laughs)

   17. DCDavid Choe5:06

       Like, as an artist, as a sculptor, like, I painted you.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       Yes.

   19. DCDavid Choe5:10

       I don't like the painting anymore, I think I can do a better one now, but-

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:12

       That's awesome. It's an awesome painting.

   21. DCDavid Choe5:14

       I'm like, "This guy," like, all artists and sculptors out there listening, paint this guy's skull, it's beautiful.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       (snorts) (laughs)

   23. DCDavid Choe5:20

       Um, you're unbelievably, uh, curious, inspirational, you give me hope, you're funny, you're entertaining, and you're a leader. Just talk to all your guys right now, like, you're leading this charge to Texas right now. And, uh, you're a perfectly imperfect, unrepeatable miracle of the universe.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:46

       Wow, that's heavy.

   25. DCDavid Choe5:48

       You're great, man.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:49

       Well, that's very sweet of you.

   27. DCDavid Choe5:50

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       I appreciate you.

   29. DCDavid Choe5:51

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:51

       Thank you very much, man. That's very nice of you.
3. 7:23 – 11:27

   Quiet new life, social fear, and talking to a sculpture to prepare for podcasting

   1. DCDavid Choe7:23

      So, um, I got all the embarrassing stuff o- out of the way, I think. Oh, no. So I was at this outdoor restaurant-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:29

      Yes.

   3. DCDavid Choe7:29

      ... eating at the corner. And not having a full-on panic, panic attack, but I have a nice, beautiful, wonderful, quiet life now. I'm not on the air, I don't do podcasts, I don't do interviews, I'm not, I'm not ... Like, my life is amazing. Like, I completely changed my life since the last time I saw you. And I go, "I- I do wanna talk to Joe, but maybe I, you know, maybe I'll just talk to you on the phone or go visit you in Texas." Like, I ... Do I need to go on the air?

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:56

      Well, I gave you that option. I was like, "We ... You don't have to do this." But-

   5. DCDavid Choe7:59

      Right, but I'm a sick person, but s-

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:01

      But you're a fun guy.

   7. DCDavid Choe8:03

      S-

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:03

      You're fun. People enjoy listening to you.

   9. DCDavid Choe8:06

      So I had this, uh, sculpture that I made, and it was in my car and I just brought it out and I sat next to it and I said, "I'm just gonna prepare a little bit." So I started preparing for The Joe Rogan Experience.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:17

       (laughs)

   11. DCDavid Choe8:18

       And I start talking to this sculpture at the r-... And I'm, like, looking, I'm like ... You know, it was three o'clock, there was no one eating there. And I got caught. I got caught. (laughs) Like, I-

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:26

       Caught talking to a sculpture?

   13. DCDavid Choe8:27

       I got caught talking to sculpture. I was talking to this thing I made. And it wasn't a, it wasn't a friend, but it was a guy I knew. And he's like, "Dave?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       (laughs)

   15. NANarrator8:35

       (laughs)

   16. DCDavid Choe8:35

       And then he comes over and I'm like, "Oh, fuck, dude." And he's like, shame, red face. I'm like, "Oh, hey." And he's like, "Are you talking to the thing right now?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm going on this thing tomorrow, I just wanted to prepare a little bit. I'm a little bit nervous, I got my nerves. I'm, I'm ..." 'Cause I talked to you, what, Thursday?

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:52

       Yeah.

   18. DCDavid Choe8:52

       No, I talked to you a few days ago. And we talked for a while, and I'm like, "This guy is a professional talker. He's a commentator, he's a standup. He has this podcast that goes on for hours and hours, thousands of hours." It's an art. You're a painter. You're a MMA artist in, in, in my world. I'm also an MMA artist, mixed media artist, right? That's, uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       Yeah.

   20. DCDavid Choe9:16

       ... the bisexual of painting.

   21. NANarrator9:17

       (laughs)

   22. DCDavid Choe9:17

       It's like you use everything. Everything-

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:20

       Right?

   24. DCDavid Choe9:20

       ... anything goes. So I go, "This guy is so fucking good at it." 'Cause I got off the phone with you and I'm like, "He's so good at talking. He's so good at talking. He's just ..." (laughs) It's like, it's like when you practice something so much that you don't even know how, how, how good you are at it, you know? And, um, e- even, even, even your podcast, they, they go on for a few hours, which is against every ... Everyone's like, "Oh, kids, they have no attention span." This, th- these days. It's like 10 seconds, 15 seconds. These fucking TikToks or Instagram. And then here's this guy, he's talking to Post Malone for four hours-

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       (laughs)

   26. DCDavid Choe9:55

       ... and, and making it seem just seamless and effortless. And that's because you're a master at it. And I go, "I'm a ..." My confidence level as- as far as this art form is low. I don't talk to people anymore. I mean, I talk to my friends, but I don't talk as storytelling or entertainment. Um, my memory's shot to shit. I can't-

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:18

       Do you wanna?

   28. DCDavid Choe10:18

       I watched three seasons of Ozark and I can't even tell you anyone's name.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       (laughs)

   30. DCDavid Choe10:22

       I go, "There's Jason Bateman and there's the kid, and the kid with the drone," and I- I don't know, the wife. I don't know anyone's names. I can't recall anything. Um, and, and, and you have all these scientists that are brilliant, you have comedians, and everyone's, like, quick-witted and they're fast and they're ... And I go, "I'm dim-witted. I'm like a, a human soft-serve. I'm like ... I- I c- I can-"
4. 11:27 – 17:27

   Self-hatred loop: anxiety mornings, ‘I am enough,’ and using suffering to create art

   1. DCDavid Choe11:27

      So, the reason why I kinda did that was I wake up every morning racked with anxiety and nerves, and it starts immediately. "You're a piece of shit. You're no good."

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:38

      Really?

   3. DCDavid Choe11:38

      "People don't like you," this and that. And then, like, what did I say when you showed me my painting from 2018? I immediately have to self-de... "Eh, it's not that good, I could do a better one." So I, um, I talked to my therapist about it. I say, "I- I don't have a self ... I don't have a high self-opinion of myself." And they go, "Well, an average human, living in society today, from morning till night, will say...... thousands of horrible things about themselves, like, oh, thousands. Like, "I'm not good enough, I'm fat, I'm ugly," this and that, just... And for you to say just a few nice things, I'm like, "What is this, some fucking Stuart Smalley shit?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      (laughs)

   5. DCDavid Choe12:20

      Like, uh, "And I'm good enough and I'm pr-" And they go, "See? You did it again. You just went right into it..." Like, "Wh- why can't you say you're a good painter? You know you're a good painter. Why can't you say you're..." And so they go, "Gimme five right now." "Five what?" "Say five fucking things about yourself that, that..." And I, I, I couldn't give them one. I couldn't give them one. And, uh, and they were like, "Don't you think that's off?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:42

      Has that always been the case?

   7. DCDavid Choe12:45

      I think so. I think it's, uh, uh, to go into that kind of self-hatred is, I could sit here and say it's a, um, Korean thing, K-rage, but it's-

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:55

      K-rage. (laughs)

   9. DCDavid Choe12:58

      They said-

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       (clears throat)

   11. DCDavid Choe12:58

       ... "You know, take a stick of deodorant, go home tonight, and write 'I am enough' on your, on your mirror so you see it every morning." And I go, "I'm not doing that. (laughs) That's so stupid."

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       (laughs)

   13. DCDavid Choe13:09

       "That's fucking retarded. I'm not doing that."

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       You're wasting deodorant. (laughs)

   15. DCDavid Choe13:12

       Yeah. And they go, "We're, uh, w- you're paying us, you're here, just do it." "All right, fine, I'll do it." I go and I write, "I am..." I misspell it, E-N-U-F-F, "I am enuff." And then I go next week and they go, "So how's it going? You know, brushing your teeth, you look at 'I'm enough'?" They go, "I can't see it." And they're like, "What kind of deodorant did you use?" "You know, the clear, invisible one." "No, get the thick, white, chunky, whatever, uh-"

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:35

       Antiperspirant.

   17. DCDavid Choe13:35

       "... yeah, uh, Old Spice, and, and, uh, like, uh, like..." "You're a fucking graffiti artist, right?" (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:41

       (laughs)

   19. DCDavid Choe13:41

       So, okay. And I, and I said, "I c- I can do it, but I don't believe it, 'cause I can sit here and tell you the amount of times in my life that I wasn't enough. Like, I can sit here and go through many, many stories of women dumping me for richer, better-looking, more famous, better this, better that. I can tell you of jobs I didn't get. So I, I'm not enough, and I'm not, you know..." So, and it's this struggle. It's this burning, fucking, like, the Michael Jordan shit, like, I gotta fucking... I'm not at, I'm not at war, I'm not... You can't fucking cancel me. I've already canceled myself.

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:23

       (laughs)

   21. DCDavid Choe14:23

       How are you gonna cancel someone who's already canceled them- there's nothing you're gonna say, there's nothing you're gonna fucking do that's gonna outweigh anything I've already said to myself. "You, uh, that guy sucks, he's ugly, he's fat, he's f- full of shit, da, da." I've already said that, you know? So-

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:38

       Do you think that fuels your art? Do you think there's a benefit to that sort of-

   23. DCDavid Choe14:42

       Absolutely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       ... yeah.

   25. DCDavid Choe14:42

       Absolutely. But, you know, it, there's been that, there's been that debate forever, how do you create great art? And I'm not talking about good art, but, like, the transcendent art-

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:56

       Mm-hmm.

   27. DCDavid Choe14:56

       ... the art that, like, is, you remember it, your, it'll live on for generations. And it's like, oh, it's, like, the Picasso and, and, uh, van Gogh and all the comedians that fucking hate their... It's, it wasn't a debate for me. When I look at the art that I enjoy, the comedy that I like, the music that I like, you must fucking suffer. You must suffer. You have to suffer. Uh, comfort is the, is the killer of creativity, that's what I used to say. And, you know, and I, and, you know, I'm saying it now. But, like, I'd be, like, in a room, like, ranting this, "Comfort is the killer of creat... You gotta fucking..."

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       It's the killer of everything, man.

   29. DCDavid Choe15:37

       But I'm rich as fuck.

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Yeah.
5. 17:27 – 38:07

   ‘Buck wild’ podcasting: unreleased episodes, roleplay, and glossolalia experiments

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:27

      You, but you associate public speaking and podcasts with causing trouble because you were so... But people don't know, your podcast was legendary-

   2. DCDavid Choe17:37

      Jamie-

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:37

      ... for being so ridiculous.

   4. DCDavid Choe17:39

      Jamie, you're moving, you guys are moving to Texas, right?

   5. NANarrator17:41

      Yeah.

   6. DCDavid Choe17:42

      Will there be any vacation or break between-

   7. NANarrator17:45

      Yeah, we'll look small, but, like, you know.

   8. DCDavid Choe17:49

      I associate-

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:49

      Yeah.

   10. DCDavid Choe17:49

       ... I, I, I guess because m- I tell myself a story. I know a lot of podcasters, I know a lot of comedians, and they don't... Oh, okay, you know what? F- fuck that, forget, I'll s- I'll, I'll use I statements. I had a podcast and-... as-

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:09

       You're buck wild podcast-

   12. DCDavid Choe18:10

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:10

       ... son. I would, I would listen to your podcast sometimes and I would go, "Goddamn, Dave. Holy shit."

   14. DCDavid Choe18:17

       And you saying that right now, I get a hit right now. There's a dopamine charge going on.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:21

       That's fun podcasting, man.

   16. DCDavid Choe18:21

       I'm like, Joe, the great Joe Rogan is telling me my show is buck wild and I-

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       Well, it was... It's like you. Like, even the way you describe your own s- s- anxiety and self-hatred, it's like y- there's a freedom to your expression that you would talk about on the podcast. You would say the most embarrassing, humiliating shit, and you would say it freely-

   18. DCDavid Choe18:41

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:41

       ... and openly and then discuss why it's embarrassing and why it's humiliating and what you did wrong and what was fucked up about it, and what you were thinking while you were doing it, how you knew it was fucked up. It was, like, riveting, man. I remember parked... I was parked in my car once, and you and Asa, I forget what you guys were talking about, but I was like, "Jesus Christ, I have to see how this plays out."

   20. DCDavid Choe19:01

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:01

       So I'm sit- sitting there, I didn't get out of my car for like five minutes just waiting-

   22. DCDavid Choe19:05

       Wow.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:05

       ... for this conversation to play out.

   24. DCDavid Choe19:07

       Wow. Thank you. I mean, I don't even know where you would even listen to it. I have a strong support system that... Of friends and family that care about me. And, uh, when I went off the rails and completely lost my mind, they took it off the air, which I went crazy.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:21

       Yeah.

   26. DCDavid Choe19:21

       Like I don't even-

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:23

       Well, this was back when it was on there.

   28. DCDavid Choe19:24

       I'm sure it's like on the dark web somewhere. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       Oh, yeah. For sure. Well, we were talking the other day about how you kept recording it and you didn't, you didn't release any of them.

   30. DCDavid Choe19:31

       I never stopped.
6. 38:07 – 43:16

   Multiple ‘Daves’ and self-therapy: inner parts, psychodrama, and healing vs monetizing

   1. DCDavid Choe38:07

      And I go, "There's a lot of people living inside me."

   2. JRJoe Rogan38:10

      Oh, yeah.

   3. DCDavid Choe38:10

      There's a lot of ... There's ... Like, I, I'm like, "Oh, there's a guy here right now that's fucking puking on the s- on Van Nuys Boulevard."

   4. JRJoe Rogan38:15

      Yeah.

   5. DCDavid Choe38:15

      "And there's another guy that's super confident and cocky." And so I go, "There's a-"

   6. JRJoe Rogan38:20

      You're a collective.

   7. DCDavid Choe38:20

      "There's a short bus in my brain, and the person driving right now, today, right now, is a confident, sober, mentally stable ... But on that bus, there's a racist Dave, there's a sexist Dave, there's a werewolf Dave, there's a trans Dave, there's a, a, uh, experimental butt plug Dave. There's, there's many Daves, and they're ... It's whatever attention I, I, I wanna give them."

   8. JRJoe Rogan38:43

      Yeah.

   9. DCDavid Choe38:44

      And, um ... You ever done a psychodrama?

   10. JRJoe Rogan38:47

       Psychodrama?

   11. DCDavid Choe38:48

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan38:49

       What is that?

   13. DCDavid Choe38:50

       It's like a therapy tool where, um, you're in a room like this with, uh, like f- five other patients. Um, and, or, I d- I don't know, it could be like up to 10, I guess. And you identify one of the most traumatic moments of your life, and ... That you can't ... You're stuck. You can- you can't get past. "I can't get past my parents divorcing, I can't get past failing at the, you know, national ..."

   14. JRJoe Rogan39:20

       Right.

   15. DCDavid Choe39:20

       You know, whatever that moment is.

   16. JRJoe Rogan39:21

       Okay.

   17. DCDavid Choe39:22

       And so then you keep playing that on a loop in your b- brain, and no matter what you do in life, that's always still going on. And so it's a tool to, to rewire your brain. So it's like, "Okay, you're gonna play yourself. How old were you then?" "16." "Okay, so you're Joe Rogan, 16. Who was there?" "My dad was there, my mom was there, my coach." You know? And then so all the other people play the roles of those things, and then you just go through, "And then what happened?" "And then this guy punched me." "Pause. What are you smelling right now? You go around the room." And it, it ... You just dissect the moment.

   18. JRJoe Rogan39:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. DCDavid Choe39:58

       And, and you're like, "So what did you need at that moment?" "Well, I needed my dad to fucking step up for me." And ... But did he? No. So in this version, have him come in. So you're rewriting history and, um, I go home. I've done hundreds of these now, and I go, "Has anyone ever done a psychodrama with themselves?" Right? 'Cause there's many voices on the 101 over here. It's like, "Dave, turn the car around." You, f- ... Who's talking right now? Scared, fucking ... "Confident Dave, we need you up on the bus. Come to the front." "Okay." It's like, "Hey, um, why the fuck did you stick a Nestle Pure Life water ball in your mouth?" "'Cause you wanted to explain to Joe what a butt plug ... " "D- did you need to do that?" And, and then, so I do this for a few hours. Of course I'm recording, and once again, I'm in a fucking room talking with a hot mic, crying, laughing, screaming to myself (laughs) .

   20. JRJoe Rogan41:04

       This sounds like an awesome ad for a Patreon page.

   21. DCDavid Choe41:06

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan41:07

       This is what you do. You take those episodes, you start new ones, and you take those crazy ones and you just put it, put it up only for Patreon members. And just ask them to please not share it, unless people are paying. And then use that money for charity. Probably make a million dollars in a week.

   23. DCDavid Choe41:23

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan41:24

       (laughs)

   25. DCDavid Choe41:27

       I don't know. I, I, I'm, I'm trying to heal myself.

   26. JRJoe Rogan41:31

       We all are.

   27. DCDavid Choe41:31

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan41:32

       We all are. What, what you're w- saying is mirrored in a lot of people, especially the, you're, you're different ... I'm a different person all the time. I'm a, a lot of different people and, um, some of them have their shit together and those ones guide the other ones away from the, the fucking rocks.

   29. DCDavid Choe41:51

       In a, in a fight, flight, or freeze situation, what are you? 'Cause I'm ... I'll, I'll just tell you, I, I could give a master class in freezing.

   30. JRJoe Rogan41:58

       If you can get out, you should get out always.
7. 43:16 – 50:44

   Korean pride, Parasite night, and pandemic-era anti-Asian racism at red lights

   1. DCDavid Choe43:16

      Okay. I told you the other day, um, this, this is pre-quarantine, pre-panda. I'm in the car with my dad and we were going to our favorite Chinese restaurant in San Gabriel Valley, which by where we live should take 15, 20 minutes tops. We live in Los Angeles. I look at the Google Maps, it says an hour and 10 minutes to get there.

   2. JRJoe Rogan43:41

      (laughs)

   3. DCDavid Choe43:41

      It's prime LA traffic. (sighs) My dad had a stroke two years ago, so he's got a kind of gimpy leg. He sort of drags his foot, so I'm like his, uh, Uber driver now.

   4. JRJoe Rogan43:51

      (laughs)

   5. DCDavid Choe43:51

      I take him everywhere. And, um, and he's, he's like a typical old Korean guy. He doesn't... He likes to eat close to home, no lines, fast, in and out, done. So-

   6. JRJoe Rogan44:02

      Yeah.

   7. DCDavid Choe44:03

      We get in the car, f- 5:30, 6:00 at, uh, on a, on a weekday night, and it's just traffic bumper to bumper. And, uh, he's like, "Fuck, look at this traffic." And the thing that added to this, which I didn't know, was it was the Academy Awards night.

   8. JRJoe Rogan44:19

      Oh, no.

   9. DCDavid Choe44:20

      So now it's like, we're not moving. And we're sitting, we're sitting at the light and my phone starts blowing up. Like, "Congratulations," like, "Fuck," like all caps. I go, "What? What's going on?" I look at my phone. My dad's like, "Hey, don't look at your phone when you're driving," like, "Th- we're not going anywhere, bro. Chill the fuck out." And Parasite, the Korean film, had just won best f- film, like in the American Academy Awards. And all my non-white friends are starting to, like... 'Cause Asians all know each other, right? We kind of do, but... "Congratulations on Parasite." And I go, "I had nothing to do with that movie." (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan44:57

       Whoa. You get...

   11. DCDavid Choe44:58

       Look-

   12. JRJoe Rogan44:58

       Wait a minute. You're getting congratulated because it's Korean?

   13. DCDavid Choe45:01

       Yeah. They're like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:01

       Wow.

   15. DCDavid Choe45:01

       ... "You must be so proud of your people," like, "You, you did it, man."

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:04

       Let me ask you this. Is that racist-

   17. DCDavid Choe45:06

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:07

       ... for them to do that?

   19. DCDavid Choe45:08

       (sighs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:09

       It seems a little racist. It's a racist congratulatory thing.

   21. DCDavid Choe45:13

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       Like your people...

   23. DCDavid Choe45:14

       Yeah, people-

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:14

       Like if somebody called me up and congratulated me for something Italians did, I'd be like, "What?"

   25. DCDavid Choe45:20

       Beautiful meatball.

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:20

       "Fuck is wrong with you?"

   27. DCDavid Choe45:21

       Beautiful meatball. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan45:23

       That... I don't even know that guy.

   29. DCDavid Choe45:25

       So that's what I'm saying. I'm in the car going, "I don't even fucking know that guy."

   30. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       (laughs) Is it all white people that are calling you congratulating you?
8. 50:44 – 1:08:53

   What’s the best response to hate? Joe’s violence-avoidance framework

   1. JRJoe Rogan50:44

      Well, that, that's wise. That's wise.

   2. DCDavid Choe50:48

      I mean, he's with his fucking kid and I go-

   3. JRJoe Rogan50:50

      Listen, it doesn't matter. You never know. If you go over and engage some guy in a physical confrontation and he beats you to death, there's no comforting the fact that his kid was there to watch.

   4. DCDavid Choe51:02

      (sighs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan51:03

      You have to really... People are so flippant about engaging in, in physical violence. It's very fucking dangerous. It's dangerous for everybody. Esp-... And you never know what someone knows.

   6. DCDavid Choe51:16

      So I snap in those moments. I go to rage. And, uh, like maybe if I was by myself, maybe I would have been more quick-witted and had a snappy comeback, but someone hasn't done that to me... The last time someone did this to me, I was probably in a Third World country 15, 20 years ago and before that, maybe I was a... in, in grade school. And as a 44-year-old man who's in a lot of pain that's been working on himself to heal, it, like, hurt me in an...

   7. JRJoe Rogan51:43

      Yeah. Well, y- y- j- fuck that guy. Just, just get away from him. That's the best thing. You're not gonna fix him by beating the shit out of him. You're not gonna change anything. You're gonna... I mean, the idea that you're gonna punish him for that and it's gonna... No. It's gonna make him hate Asian people more. He's just a fucked up dude. A, a guy who would do that to you for no reason at all, just sees you and wants to hurt you, make you feel bad, that kind of a guy is hurting, man. He's probably been abused his whole life. There's probably something real wrong with him. There's probably... Had a fucked up alcoholic dad or something or some uncle did something to him. There's always something. People that lash out and try to hurt people randomly for no reason are all in pain. You know, there's that old expression, "Hurt people hurt people."

   8. DCDavid Choe52:25

      Definitely. And I'm-

   9. JRJoe Rogan52:26

      And that's, that's true. That's-

   10. DCDavid Choe52:27

       And I'm, and I'm hurt.

   11. JRJoe Rogan52:28

       Yeah.

   12. DCDavid Choe52:29

       So-

   13. JRJoe Rogan52:29

       But you're... But that's not a... That's an intelligent thing, to do nothing, because your pause, your pause is wise, 'cause y- you can call it freezing, but you're stuck in an unwinnable situation. If you go over and beat that guy's ass, like that is violence, it's dangerous. You never know how it's gonna turn out. You never know if he has a gun or a knife or... Fuck. Or, or what if you-

   14. DCDavid Choe52:50

       I go darker than that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:51

       Or what if you kill him?

   16. DCDavid Choe52:51

       I g- I go, I go-

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:52

       What if you kill him?

   18. DCDavid Choe52:52

       I go darker than that. Fuck him. Just beat up his kid in front of him.

   19. JRJoe Rogan52:55

       Oh, Jesus.

   20. DCDavid Choe52:55

       I mean, n- none of that happened.

   21. JRJoe Rogan52:56

       I don't think he would let you do that. Then he would really kill you. But the, the idea is that...

   22. DCDavid Choe53:02

       (sighs) .

   23. JRJoe Rogan53:02

       The best thing to do is get the fuck out of there. So the freezing and trying to figure out what y-... 'Cause it's a th- it's a real decision. If you run over to... But if you get the fuck out of there, then that guy hurts you and then you feel bad and you never feel like you got him back.

   24. DCDavid Choe53:14

       But growing up in the '80s, I got that all the time and I b- and I built up a thick skin to that and I was, I was like, "I'm gonna go to a new Black school. I'm gonna go to a all Mexican school and they're gonna make fun of me."

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:24

       Right.

   26. DCDavid Choe53:24

       "They're gonna do that. They're gonna call me Mr. Miyagi." They're... So I pull into the beach parking lot and my dad had just already deleted it from his, like... I was like, "Oh, sorry, Dad." He's like... And, and I'm like, "What the fuck am I apologizing..." He's like, "Eh, whatever." And, um, and, and, you know, I'm saying it with my whole chest, "Korean!" Uh. I was feeling very braggadocious and proud and it all (mouth trills) it, like, deflates and I go, "A parasite got us here and then a virus sends us right, our dick shriveled back into our body."

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:53

       Oh.

   28. DCDavid Choe53:53

       And I'm like, "Oh, fuck, dude."

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:55

       Well, that is a virus too.

   30. DCDavid Choe53:57

       Well, yeah.
9. 1:08:53 – 1:22:21

   The ‘invisible’ traveler: hitchhiking, strangers confessing dark secrets, and real danger

   1. DCDavid Choe1:08:53

      Whenever, whenever I see stuff like that, I, I, I go... Because I grew up with it, if, if... You know, you know when you were in high school and people go, "Hey, pick a superpower."

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:09:05

      Right.

   3. DCDavid Choe1:09:05

      "Invisibility or flight."

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:09:07

      Right.

   5. DCDavid Choe1:09:07

      I'm already invisible. Like, being an Asian and growing up in the communities that I grew up with, I was invisible. Like, I, I don't even have a voice. Like, y- you as, you might find this hard to believe, but I never talked growing up. I was the kid in the corner. And, like, girls would form groups and talk about which guy they wanna fuck, and I wouldn't even be in... They're like, "Dave, Dave's sitting right there," and they're like, "Yeah, he's not even, he's not even on the fucking roster." And I'm like... So I, I get, I, I go, "Wait, is this racist? Yeah? But what has it per- How can I f- turn this around?" What it did for me... The Asian superpower is if you're not seen, and you're not heard, and we're seen as nonthreatening, I can go anywhere. I can go anywhere, and people open up to me. I've been to the Congo. I've been to Third World countries. I've been to every fucking state in, in America. I might be the most American person, like, I've been to every fucking state.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:10:03

      (laughs)

   7. DCDavid Choe1:10:03

      I've hitchhiked f- from the time I was 15 to every fucking state, every country, and I've talked. And, and because would a Black guy be able to do that? Would a white guy be able to do that? When people see, "Oh, that guy's Chinese, he's like Jackie Chan or he's a..." Wha- whatever they think, they don't think that I'm gonna do anything or say anything, or I'm gonna pro- you know, pose any threat-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:10:27

      Mm-hmm.

   9. DCDavid Choe1:10:27

      ... so they just open up, and they say the most... I don't know, like, when I started hitchhiking, people said, "No one's gonna pick you up," right? Like, '60s, '70s, everyone hitchhiked, and then something weird happened in the '80s where, like, "You're gonna get raped, kidnapped, murdered," you know? But I go, "I don't think so. I think if I put my thumb out and ask for help, someone's gonna give it to me." And with that, I got to see the world for free. I got to go everywhere. And much like... Wh- what happened was I would sit shotgun, and I'm, and I'm getting these free rides. And two things would happen, either the driver has a long drive, and they want someone to talk to, or they want me to talk to them. And something would happen. And I'm like, "I'm in the car right now with a complete stranger. Anything could happen." And the first hour is always small talk, "How long you been on the road? Oh, what'd you do..." You know, it's all that kinda stuff. Something switches when they know the ride's about, like, I'm about to get out or whatever, "I'm never gonna see this guy again. I'm never gonna see this guy again." So now, we've been talking about new sports and weather for an hour. Last 10 minutes, "I fucked my sister when I was 12."

Episode duration: 3:51:38