Joe Rogan Experience #1542 - Cameron Hanes

Narrator 0:01 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Hello, Cam Hanes.

Cameron Hanes 0:14 'Sup?

Joe Rogan 0:14 What's going on, buddy? Good to see you.

Cameron Hanes 0:16 Oh, man. It's good to be here.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 0:17 In this spaceship. Look at this.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Y- it's weird, right?

Cameron Hanes 0:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:20 It's very p- uh, polarizing. People love it or hate it. A lot of people hate it.

Cameron Hanes 0:25 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 0:25 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 0:26 I think it's cool.

Joe Rogan 0:27 I like it.

Cameron Hanes 0:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:27 I don't love it.

Cameron Hanes 0:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:29 I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's interesting. It's, uh ... We did it really quickly. I mean, we, we decided to move here. Within six weeks-

Cameron Hanes 0:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:36 ... we were here. Um, I said this on the, uh, video on my Instagram, but I should probably say it again. You live up there in Oregon.

Cameron Hanes 0:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:42 And I, I said something incorrect. I said about, uh, there was a guy who got ... I know there was one guy who got arrested for lighting fires.

Cameron Hanes 0:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:49 And I thought ... I'd read some other shit about activists getting arrested for lighting fires, or antifa people.

Cameron Hanes 0:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Shouldn't even call them activists. What do you call them? Crazy people.

Cameron Hanes 0:57 Idiots.

Joe Rogan 0:58 Morons.

Cameron Hanes 0:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:59 But it's not true. So, sorry if you-

Cameron Hanes 1:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 ... heard me say that. Jamie, uh, informed me of it today. It's one thing about being out of the loop. You don't know when people are mad at you.

Cameron Hanes 1:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08 But this time, I agree with them. Like-

Cameron Hanes 1:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10 ... they're mad at me for something that-

Cameron Hanes 1:11 Well, like, somebody did get arrested for-

Joe Rogan 1:13 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 1:13 ... a Molotov cocktail.

Joe Rogan 1:14 I read that. Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15 That turns out to be true. He got arrested, and then he got out of jail, and then lo- lit some more things on fire. But-

Cameron Hanes 1:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:21 You see, the ... Here's the thing. Like, when, when you say antifa, like, what does that mean, right?

Cameron Hanes 1:26 Yeah, I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:26 It could just be a crazy person.

Cameron Hanes 1:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:28 And that's what a lot of antifa is. Like, that guy that shot that dude in Portland, the guy that shot the Trump supporter?

Cameron Hanes 1:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34 That guy's a crazy person.

Cameron Hanes 1:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35 He's dead now, right?

Cameron Hanes 1:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:36 He was a, he was a crazy person.

Cameron Hanes 1:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39 You know, just decided to pile on to this thing and become an activist. But that's what the ... When you don't have a, like, uh, an, a- an entry examination-

Cameron Hanes 1:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 ... anyone can just join up.

Cameron Hanes 1:49 They just show up.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Yeah, you just show up, and now you're antifa.

Cameron Hanes 1:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52 And now you're a part of the resistance.

Cameron Hanes 1:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54 But I fucked up.

Cameron Hanes 1:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57 I said that people, a lot of people were arrested. I read some shit about it. I don't, I don't even remember where I read it, about all these people getting arrested-

Cameron Hanes 2:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03 ... for lighting wildfires, but it wasn't true. It was just this one guy-

Cameron Hanes 2:05 Well-

Joe Rogan 2:05 ... that, for sure.

Cameron Hanes 2:06 ... I think they should have been arrested, and maybe that's the difference.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Well, I ... See, that's why it made sense to me.

Cameron Hanes 2:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11 'Cause they had been arrested for lighting fires in ... Or that it, they hadn't been arrested. They had been, uh, seen lighting fires and throwing them into the mayor of Portland's apartment lobby.

Cameron Hanes 2:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23 And they were lighting fires out in the street in front of his apartment.

Cameron Hanes 2:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:27 It just ... When someone said, "Oh, look at all these arrests. They're, they're arresting people for lighting fires." Oh-

Cameron Hanes 2:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:31 ... I just went, "Oh, that makes sense."

Cameron Hanes 2:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:33 And I just repeated it.

Cameron Hanes 2:35 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:35 I'm very upset with myself. I don't like when I repeat shit that's not true. That's definitely not true.

Cameron Hanes 2:40 Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a hard time, though. I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:42 It's your spot up there, though.

Cameron Hanes 2:43 It is.

Joe Rogan 2:43 That's your, that's your area.

Cameron Hanes 2:45 Yeah, it's, it's ... You know, people, when they find out, "Oh, you're from Oregon, so what do you think of all ..." You know? It's just ... It's kind of embarrassing to, to ... Just because I understand people have an opinion, and they want change, and they ... You know, maybe it's, maybe some of it is valid. But I don't agree with 100 nights of burning, or however many nights it's been of just burning and ruining a city. I don't, I don't understand how that ... I mean, eventually, maybe one night, have a protest, do whatever, get your message out, talk to people. But just destruction? I don't get that.

Joe Rogan 3:20 I think it's exactly what we were just saying, that you get enough people that join onto a movement, and the, the movement has no, like, directive or leaders. They're just there showing up.

Cameron Hanes 3:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:32 And you're gonna get morons that do things like light books on fire and throw them into the lobby, like doing all the things that they were doing-

Cameron Hanes 3:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:37 ... trying to break into the federal building. It's just, people are nuts, man. You get ... And people are ... They're ... Everyone's ... So many angry people right now, too.

Cameron Hanes 3:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:45 That's an- also part of the problem.

Cameron Hanes 3:47 It's-

Joe Rogan 3:47 So many people are angry.

Cameron Hanes 3:48 It's a crazy time.

Joe Rogan 3:50 And so many people are out of work because there's ... Of COVID, because everything shut down, so people are furious because of that. You know, they don't know what to do. It's just, it's one of those things where it- it d- it d- it doesn't, doesn't seem like there's a solution on the horizon for a lot of people.

Cameron Hanes 4:05 No.

Joe Rogan 4:05 And so then they're like, "We gotta burn this system down. Fuck the system." And it's like-

Cameron Hanes 4:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:09 Whew.

Cameron Hanes 4:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 But Portland-

Cameron Hanes 4:10 That's rough.

Joe Rogan 4:10 ... is a fun place. I love going up there.

Cameron Hanes 4:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 I've always loved Portland.

Cameron Hanes 4:13 Well, I'm, I'm proud to be from Oregon. I mean, Oregon is a great state. Um, this? I don't know. It's really hard to support just destruction.

Joe Rogan 4:23 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:23 And I don't know.

Joe Rogan 4:24 It's just, it doesn't seem like it's helping anything, you know? And then, you know, all the conspiracy theories. "Oh, it's the fucking ... You know, they're, they're trying to bring down democracy. It's Russia and China involved, and oh, George Soros is funding it." Like, there's a-

Cameron Hanes 4:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:37 ... million different versions of the conspiracy after a while. There's so much chaos in the streets. You know? It's, uh, it's a weird time.

Cameron Hanes 4:45 Yeah. I mean, Eddie Bravo was right about a lot of stuff.

Joe Rogan 4:48 Alex Jones was right about a lot of stuff.

Cameron Hanes 4:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:51 You know, it's, it's, uh ... It is crazy, because you start ... And I've even texted you about this, about wondering about ... You know, people would always say, "Well, do the elites run the country? And they're controlling this, and media, and this and that." And then I ... Then you start wondering or thinking or seeing and, and you see all this, and it's like, maybe that's true. Maybe the elites have been controlling everything, and they're still trying to with this COVID and the fear and everything they're doing, just ... They can control people with fear, and that's what's happening.

Joe Rogan 5:20 I get super suspicious when people use that term, "the elites."

Cameron Hanes 5:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:23 I'm like, "How do you get in that group?"

Cameron Hanes 5:25 (laughs) Like, I don't even know what that is.

Joe Rogan 5:26 Is there a meeting?

Cameron Hanes 5:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:28 What does, what does, what does the elites ... What does that mean?

Cameron Hanes 5:30 I don't like them. I, I know that. That's a-

Joe Rogan 5:32 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 5:32 I know enough about it, but ...

Joe Rogan 5:33 I don't know if they're real. I mean, that's ... There has to be, right? There ha- there is a Bilderberger meeting, right?

Cameron Hanes 5:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:39 Where the Bilderberg Group, they get together, and they meet up.

Cameron Hanes 5:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:44 But what do they do?

Cameron Hanes 5:45 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 5:45 You know, maybe they just talk about interest rates.

Cameron Hanes 5:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:48 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 5:48 (laughs) Yeah. Well, we were talking about this in ... I would probably ... I'm a bow hunter, all right? So I d- I don't like the, the politics and trying to explain all this, but-

Joe Rogan 5:58 You stay in your lane.

Cameron Hanes 5:59 ... I try to stay in my lane, but I do have thoughts on other things. And we were talking about, like, e- if you l- even look at the movie 300 and Gladiator, like, the old time, the, the weird ... They would say boy lovers and, you know, it's like these politicians. It's-... like a toned down version of that still. It's like, they're so po- uh, politicians... I don't know, that's why Trump got elected. They were so, people were so sick of politi- quote, "politicians," but there still is that, that influence and that, them controlling, and them just a, so much different than the people, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:34 Yeah. Well, I think that's how you become successful as a politician. You have to be a politician.

Cameron Hanes 6:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:39 You have to be, like, deeply embedded. And again, this is just guessing.

Cameron Hanes 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 I'm a moron too.

Cameron Hanes 6:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:43 I should stay in my lane. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 6:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:45 I don't know what I'm saying.

Cameron Hanes 6:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:47 But I would imagine that the only way you really get successful as a politician is you have to be connected to all these other people that are connected to all these special interest groups and lobbies-

Cameron Hanes 6:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:56 ... and that's why you have to go to these fundraisers, and that's why you have to mingle, and, and then it becomes normal. You become a part of, you know, it becomes a normal part of the system.

Cameron Hanes 7:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:06 And I would imagine that that's the case with almost any big business. Like, that's why guys get together, the big businessmen get together and golf.

Cameron Hanes 7:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:12 Right? They, they get together and they talk shit, and they figure out their plan, and they, they work out deals and stuff, and-

Cameron Hanes 7:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:18 ... and some of them do it on Fuck Island with Jeffrey Epstein.

Cameron Hanes 7:20 God.

Joe Rogan 7:21 You know? I think that's a lot of, uh, the-

Cameron Hanes 7:23 No, wait. What, what do you mean? I don't, haven't heard anything about that.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Well, it's just a place.

Cameron Hanes 7:26 What, what is that?

Joe Rogan 7:26 It's beautiful. There's a lot of beautiful trees, and it's, uh, the, the-

Cameron Hanes 7:29 Oh.

Joe Rogan 7:30 ... beautiful, warm water.

Cameron Hanes 7:31 And, and why is it called Fuck Island?

Joe Rogan 7:32 Oh, I don't know. I don't call it that.

Cameron Hanes 7:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:34 I call it a nice place to meet nice people.

Cameron Hanes 7:36 Right. I mean-

Joe Rogan 7:37 And, uh...

Cameron Hanes 7:37 How crazy is that? That's just gone. It's like-

Joe Rogan 7:40 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:40 ... hey, wasn't that a story, or-

Joe Rogan 7:41 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:41 ... was that a thing?

Joe Rogan 7:42 Just went away. But that sounds way crazier than antifa lighting fires in Portland.

Cameron Hanes 7:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:47 And it's true.

Cameron Hanes 7:47 Right. That's-

Joe Rogan 7:48 That's a real one.

Cameron Hanes 7:49 Yeah, there's-

Joe Rogan 7:49 I can talk about that, and they, they're like, "Well, yeah, it is what it is."

Cameron Hanes 7:53 God.

Joe Rogan 7:53 You know?

Cameron Hanes 7:54 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 7:54 God, I'm so mad at myself for saying that story and having it not be true. When Jamie showed it to me today, I was like, "Did I say that?"

Cameron Hanes 8:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:01 What is it like working with a moron?

Cameron Hanes 8:03 Well-

Joe Rogan 8:03 Is it weird? Like, I mean, no, really. Like, having someone like me, being a, a moron like I am, being responsible for steering the ship, and, you know, your livelihood is connected to this. This has gotta be strange, right?

Cameron Hanes 8:14 (laughs)

Narrator 8:14 It's just you're hitting the buttons, man.

Cameron Hanes 8:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:19 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 8:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:19 But you gotta take the good with the bad, I guess.

Narrator 8:21 Sure, yeah, that's the-

Joe Rogan 8:21 Is that how you look at it?

Narrator 8:21 ... same thing, yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 8:22 So how, how does, uh, you, a self-proclaimed moron-

Joe Rogan 8:25 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 8:25 ... have the president of the United States-

Joe Rogan 8:28 Well, he's clearly a moron too. That's the only, the only thing (laughs) that makes sense.

Cameron Hanes 8:30 ... tweeting about you-

Narrator 8:32 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 8:32 ... mentioning you. When, when do, oh-

Joe Rogan 8:34 See-

Cameron Hanes 8:34 ... actually, when does him and Biden get here?

Joe Rogan 8:36 No, it's not gonna happen.

Cameron Hanes 8:37 For the podcast?

Joe Rogan 8:37 See-

Cameron Hanes 8:38 What?

Joe Rogan 8:38 ... Joe Biden's the smart one. He's like, "Well, that guy's a moron. I'm not going on his podcast." But Trump-

Cameron Hanes 8:41 Yeah, if he's the smart one, we got-

Joe Rogan 8:43 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 8:43 ... we got problems.

Joe Rogan 8:44 Trump is like, "That makes sense to me. I'm in." Well, Trump is like, I mean, he's obviously deeply, again, way, way out of my lane-

Cameron Hanes 8:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:51 ... just talking nonsense, but he's obviously-

Cameron Hanes 8:54 Nobody's listening.

Joe Rogan 8:54 ... connected to business. He's a huge businessman.

Cameron Hanes 8:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:57 Huge and successful businessman.

Cameron Hanes 8:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:58 But not a politician in any way-

Cameron Hanes 9:01 Which is good.

Joe Rogan 9:01 ... other than becoming president.

Cameron Hanes 9:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:03 Which is fucking bananas.

Cameron Hanes 9:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:05 You know?

Cameron Hanes 9:06 It is.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Part of it is good, man. Part of it's good just to expose the system, and just to let everybody know, "Hey, look what can happen."

Cameron Hanes 9:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:12 "Look how, look how it can go wrong."

Cameron Hanes 9:14 He has, the whole fake news has really got some traction now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:17 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 9:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Fake news is a real thing now.

Cameron Hanes 9:19 I was-

Joe Rogan 9:19 You can say "fake news."

Cameron Hanes 9:21 Yeah. I was pretty impressed with, uh, the, the treaty we just signed, um, with Israel.

Joe Rogan 9:27 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 9:28 I mean, remember Jared Kushner got, he got beat up a lot, and Trump for appointing, and the whole family, and how everybody's involved, and, and his, uh, his operation, basically. But, you know, like, he, Jared Kushner wasn't qualified, and then here we sign this great treaty with Israel. And, uh, how'd that happen?

Joe Rogan 9:47 I don't know. See, if Jared Kushner was not married to Trump's daughter-

Cameron Hanes 9:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:51 ... I think people would look at him very differently.

Cameron Hanes 9:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:53 The, the problem is he's married to Trump's daughter, and he looks like Damien from The Omen.

Cameron Hanes 9:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:58 Have you ever seen photos of him and Damien side by side?

Cameron Hanes 10:00 No, I haven't.

Joe Rogan 10:01 Dude-

Cameron Hanes 10:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:02 ... he looks like a goddamn horror movie.

Cameron Hanes 10:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:04 Like, he's the, the Devil's son. Just perfect, like, slicked-back hair.

Cameron Hanes 10:08 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:08 Perfect angular features, thin and w- always wears a suit.

Cameron Hanes 10:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:12 Jamie, show me. What's up?

Cameron Hanes 10:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:15 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 10:15 Push some buttons.

Joe Rogan 10:18 He looks, he looks very similar to O- to The Omen.

Cameron Hanes 10:21 Well, whatever he did, it was good.

Joe Rogan 10:24 Come on, son. Look at that.

Cameron Hanes 10:25 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 10:26 Look at him and look at Damien. Look at the... Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 10:29 Oh.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Come on.

Cameron Hanes 10:30 Right there.

Joe Rogan 10:30 Come on. Right there. Come on.

Cameron Hanes 10:31 That's almost exact.

Joe Rogan 10:32 Bro.

Cameron Hanes 10:33 Is that Photoshop?

Joe Rogan 10:34 No.

Cameron Hanes 10:34 That looks like it could be Photoshop.

Joe Rogan 10:35 No. And even, he's showing off his watch. "Look at my watch. The Devil gave me this watch."

Cameron Hanes 10:40 That's not Gucci.

Joe Rogan 10:41 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 10:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:43 Look at that. Those two up in the m- the... That looks like a horror movie. Like, "Oh, they're, they're here, they're bringing in the Antichrist."

Cameron Hanes 10:49 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 10:49 The one on the far left with Donald Trump being blurry, and him, that one right there. Click on that one. Come on, son. That's some Satanic shit. If that was in a Stephen King movie, you'd be like, "Oh my God, they've gotta stop him! They've gotta stop him!"

Cameron Hanes 11:00 Well, what, whatever powers he's used, it, it worked out good for this treaty.

Joe Rogan 11:04 He's just got good features.

Cameron Hanes 11:05 Yeah, that's it.

Joe Rogan 11:05 You know? The kid's getting a hard time because he's got good angular features. He's got a s-

Cameron Hanes 11:09 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:10 ... solid-

Cameron Hanes 11:10 I wish I looked that good.

Joe Rogan 11:11 I do too.

Cameron Hanes 11:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Smooth skin.

Cameron Hanes 11:13 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Looks nice.

Cameron Hanes 11:14 Oh.

Joe Rogan 11:15 He's young.

Cameron Hanes 11:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:16 Handsome.

Cameron Hanes 11:16 Tight.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Yeah. Everything's smooth.

Cameron Hanes 11:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:19 No, no, no ruddiness to his skin.

Cameron Hanes 11:21 No.

Joe Rogan 11:22 Yeah, I don't know... Uh, y- you, the problem is, if you're married to the president's daughter and then you get a big job-

Cameron Hanes 11:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:28 ... in, in the White House, automatically you're fucked.

Cameron Hanes 11:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Like, people are just gonna say automatically, "You don't deserve that position."

Cameron Hanes 11:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:34 There's no way.

Cameron Hanes 11:35 And Biden's son is the same thing, probably.

Joe Rogan 11:37 Right. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 11:37 Yeah. I- I mean, that doesn't come up too often either, and that's pretty scandalous.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Right, that thing where, you know, someone got fired because, uh, B- Biden, uh, forced it through. What, how did that work? Wha- Do you remember that?

Cameron Hanes 11:50 Oh. Yeah, no. I, I better-

Joe Rogan 11:52 I don't care. We should stay out of politics.

Cameron Hanes 11:54 Let's, let's-

Joe Rogan 11:54 It's so depressing.

Cameron Hanes 11:55 ... try to avoid the retractions.

Joe Rogan 11:56 I just wish there was something going on that I was r- get, really excited about.

Cameron Hanes 11:59 Like-

Joe Rogan 11:59 Like, this is good.

Cameron Hanes 12:00 Like elk hunting.

Joe Rogan 12:01 Yes. Oh, elk hunting.

Cameron Hanes 12:02 See?

Joe Rogan 12:02 We're doing that soon.

Cameron Hanes 12:03 I know. I know. That's the-

Joe Rogan 12:05 We're days away.

Cameron Hanes 12:06 That's the... And the thing about it, so I was just in Colorado. No reception, you versus the animals, uh, reading the country, reading the wind.... that's, I mean, that's life. That's ... None of this BS.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Yeah. That, well, that's the beautiful thing about the woods as a reset, is that when you're out there and quiet, you realize, "Oh, none of these animals out here give a fuck about me."

Cameron Hanes 12:30 No.

Joe Rogan 12:30 They don't know who I am. They don't know what, what is happening in the world. They're not aware of Kamala Harris and-

Cameron Hanes 12:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:37 ... Joe Biden or-

Cameron Hanes 12:39 No. No.

Joe Rogan 12:39 ... Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump. They don't know nothing.

Cameron Hanes 12:42 No.

Joe Rogan 12:42 They're just out there trying to eat grass and not get eaten.

Cameron Hanes 12:44 They're ... And breed.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Yeah. And, and, you know-

Cameron Hanes 12:47 And, and do their thing.

Joe Rogan 12:47 ... John, when John was there last w- year, he was like 18 yards away from a mountain lion.

Cameron Hanes 12:51 John? Oh, Dudley.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Dudley, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 12:53 Yeah, yeah. W- well, I saw t- um, we saw, I think, when I was there, I saw one, but the guys hunting saw two during the day, mountain lions, and just out doin' it because the snow came. The weird snowstorm. It went from 90 degrees one day to 20 degrees the next day.

Joe Rogan 13:10 How does that happen?

Cameron Hanes 13:11 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Jared Kushner. That's how.

Cameron Hanes 13:13 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:13 Satan.

Cameron Hanes 13:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:15 I mean ... (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 13:15 Exactly, had to be. But anyway, the animals were ... They didn't know what to do, so the lions were out hunting hard. They were like, "This is great." Animals weren't moving-

Joe Rogan 13:25 Hmm.

Cameron Hanes 13:25 ... because they didn't know ... They were cau- kinda caught off guards. Normally, the seasons change as a gradual ... And I think the bull stopped bugling. The deer stopped moving that normally the bucks are in velvet, so they're off feeding and just in their normal routine. Everything stopped 'cause of snow and this cold temperature came. But the lions were ... They're like, "Oh, yeah. Now, we're going to the Hot Pocket section and killing some deer and elk." And, uh, it was, it was crazy. But we saw two lions and then the bear were kinda gone for a little while, but then they popped back out too. And, uh, it was good hunting, for sure.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Yeah, um, that video that you posted of the bear eating the elk calf.

Cameron Hanes 14:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:04 That's, uh, that's something that people need to see.

Cameron Hanes 14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:08 Need to see the ... It's like people who love wild animals, I, I, I understand it. Like, but there's th- there's a real cruelty to the way they die in the wild.

Cameron Hanes 14:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:18 That if people get upset about hunters, like, you kinda ... I understand that you wouldn't want a beautiful animal to die. I do understand that.

Cameron Hanes 14:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:26 But you kinda need to know that they're gonna die no matter what happens, and this is the way they usually die.

Cameron Hanes 14:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:32 And it's a rough way to go.

Cameron Hanes 14:33 You know-

Joe Rogan 14:34 Bear, bears eating animals like that, it's, it's so hard to watch too because the bears don't really kill 'em first.

Cameron Hanes 14:40 No. And, and the bear ... This year was a hard year for the elk calves because ... So the calves were, were pregnant, dro- we call it dropping the calf, so they were giving birth. And the bear were just following knowing that the calves are gonna be dropped. They'll be on the ground. They can't stand up. And they could just kill them pretty quick. And so, they were finding like two cal- two dead elk calves a day every day. And this was a hard year specifically because it was dry in Southern Colorado, so the grass didn't grow. Normally, the, the grass would be taller. There'd be more cover. Elk calves could hide better. They were just laying out in the open. And the bears were like, "Oh, okay. There you are. Go-"

Joe Rogan 15:21 Oh, wow.

Cameron Hanes 15:22 "... kill 'em and start eating 'em." And it was just ... (exhales) They, they hammered 'em this year. I mean, normally, I talk to the game warden there, um, when I was on that hunt, great guy, legend. Um, Bob's his name, and, um, he's been there for many years. And, uh, he said that normally in that area, there's about, I think, 23 elk calves survive a year out of 100. And this year it was down in the teens because of the, the grass was just-

Joe Rogan 15:53 Hmm.

Cameron Hanes 15:53 They couldn't hide. So it's-

Joe Rogan 15:54 So, it's gonna be a rough year in the future.

Cameron Hanes 15:56 It's tough to survive anyway.

Joe Rogan 15:57 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 15:57 I mean, 23 out of 100 is, isn't, uh, you know, I ... Don't quote me on these numbers, but it was just ... The point is, I wanna make, it was less this year because there wasn't the cover.

Joe Rogan 16:06 Yeah. It's a, it's a rough world, man. The world that they live in, you know?

Cameron Hanes 16:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:09 When we were there with Johnny Hamilton and he was telling us that story, I, I've told this story before on the podcast about how they were tracking a cat. And, uh, they, they found, uh, the cat's tracks and then elk tracks, and then no more cat tracks.

Cameron Hanes 16:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:22 And then they found the elk about 100 yards later. The cat had jumped on the elk's back-

Cameron Hanes 16:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:27 ... and taken out a big bull elk.

Cameron Hanes 16:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:29 I mean, th- those ... They are amazing creatures.

Cameron Hanes 16:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:33 They live in the snow. They live in cold weather in the mountains. They live solo.

Cameron Hanes 16:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:39 They hunt solo. They only interact with other animals mostly when it's time to breed, right?

Cameron Hanes 16:43 Yeah. Cats?

Joe Rogan 16:45 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 16:45 Y- yeah. And they kill ... Cats specifically kill a lot of big bucks, and the reason why is 'cause those big old bucks, they're, they like being by themselves.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 16:55 They don't like being ... They just kinda go off by themselves, bed, and they live a solo life basically. That's easy target for a cat. So cats kill a lot of big bucks.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Yeah. It makes sense. But they, they're ... I love that they're there. This is the thing about predators. It's like I don't wanna get eaten by a mountain lion-

Cameron Hanes 17:17 No.

Joe Rogan 17:17 ... but I love that they exist.

Cameron Hanes 17:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:19 I don't wanna get eaten by a grizzly, but I love the fact that there are grizzly bears.

Cameron Hanes 17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:23 Like, all of it is, it's so, it's such an interesting world, the world of the wild.

Cameron Hanes 17:29 It is.

Joe Rogan 17:29 The world of predator and prey.

Cameron Hanes 17:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:31 And when you're out in there, you feel so vulnerable and you feel so fleshy. Like, like, whenever I see ani- like, when you, even when you, like, you, you, you're taking care of an elk that you killed and you feel their hide-

Cameron Hanes 17:43 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:43 ... you're like, "God, I'm so weak." Like, everything that we have is so soft. And they're just ... They're living this life that's so, it's so robust.

Cameron Hanes 17:53 Oh.

Joe Rogan 17:53 And it's so ... It's just wild.

Cameron Hanes 17:54 If they survive, like, the bull I just killed, the taxidermist, um, he just texted me or sent me a message on Instagram of the ivory. So that's the, the back teeth of the bull. They call them ivories. They're ivory. People make jewelry out of 'em. But he said they're the most worn ivories he's ever seen. So the, the bull was very old. And, uh, so you can imagine a bull that's, in that country, 10, 12 years old.... where you're living outside every single day. I mean, we stay outside one time, and it's just like, "Oh my God, I thought I was gonna die." People do die.

Joe Rogan 18:27 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 18:27 People do die from hypother- thermia. They're out every single day living in the mountains, so when you see their hide, they're built for that with their muscle. I mean, a 7, 800 pound bull elk that never eats meat, obviously, just eating grass, solid muscle. You know?

Joe Rogan 18:42 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 18:43 Those things are just built. It's incredible. Um, and also with all those lions and the bears, trying to survive that. Johnny, you mentioned Johnny Hamilton, they took eight lions out of that country this year, and we're still seeing 'em during the daylight every day.

Joe Rogan 18:59 They have so much food.

Cameron Hanes 19:00 Oh, yeah. That's the thing, i- if it's good hunting, lions are gonna be there.

Joe Rogan 19:04 Yeah, it's, it's just the, the world that they live in, so spectacular.

Cameron Hanes 19:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:08 Uh, they're trying to introduce the, uh, reintroduce wolves to Colorado.

Cameron Hanes 19:12 Oh God. Don't, that's-

Joe Rogan 19:13 You know about all that?

Cameron Hanes 19:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:14 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 19:14 That's ridiculous. No.

Joe Rogan 19:15 You think that's ridiculous?

Cameron Hanes 19:17 Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 19:17 I w- I'd like to have a biologist s- sit down and talk t- Like, a biologist who's pro-reintroduction of wolves sit down with someone like you.

Cameron Hanes 19:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:27 And, and have, like, a conversation about it.

Cameron Hanes 19:29 Yeah, here's the problem. Here's what they do. They say, it all sounds good, "Hey, let's... Wolves are a big part of the whatever, um, let's get 'em back in where they used to be. Let's make..." 'Cause y- even you said, you like see- knowing there's grizzly bear out there.

Joe Rogan 19:44 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 19:44 And you don't, obviously you don't wanna be attacked, but just knowing they're there and maybe seeing 'em and, and wolves are an amazing animal. The problem is they make, they make all these, um, uh, I don't know, I don't wanna say promises, but they sell it a certain way, like, "We're gonna have this many packs of wolves and they'll, they'll breed this, this often. And then so we'll have a carrying capacity of this many wolves." Well, so once the wolves are there, then it's, "Oh no, we can't kill wolves," 'cause they, they sell it like they're gonna manage 'em, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:16 Right.

Cameron Hanes 20:16 "'Cause we're gonna keep this many." But then it's like once they're there, they're like, "Oh no, we can't hunt wolves."

Joe Rogan 20:22 I'm just-

Cameron Hanes 20:22 I was like, "What? No, I thought you were gonna, I thought we were gonna manage 'em." Well, so that, then all, everything goes back to noth- And then you got all these protests with all these pro-wolf advocates saying, "We can't hunt wolves," so they're there, they're breeding over and over and over. You got all these wolves running around killing 'cause that's what they do, and we can't hunt 'em because now we've backtracked.

Joe Rogan 20:40 Well, it, it is one of those things where they promise that y- y- like they have a number. Like, "If we have 2,000 wolves in this particular area, then we'll open it up to management."

Cameron Hanes 20:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:51 And what management e- means is they'll have tags and they'll, uh, put tags available for hunters and they can go and hunt wolves. People that hear that, they're like, "Wait, why would you..." Like, they hear, "You don't eat wolves. Why would you hunt wolves?"

Cameron Hanes 21:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:03 "Wolves are beautiful. Wolves are like dogs."

Cameron Hanes 21:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:06 But I understand that and I'm on that perspec- I get that perspective, makes a lot of sense to me, but people need to know that there's a reason why they wiped 'em out in the first place.

Cameron Hanes 21:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:15 Like, they, they were destroying cattle and they were i- i- I understand too, like, "Hey, they were here first." I get that.

Cameron Hanes 21:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 I get that perspective. But if you eat meat and you like having cattle, these ranchers, it's a struggle as a rancher as it is.

Cameron Hanes 21:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:30 And if ranchers get hit with wolves and wolves start taking out their calves and taking out their cattle, like, it's, it can be devastating. They, you know, like in Alaska, they kill people's dogs. They do a, a lotta, there's a lotta wild videos of wolves tearing apart dogs in people's backyards.

Cameron Hanes 21:46 And wolves are just doing wolf things.

Joe Rogan 21:48 Yeah, that's what they do.

Cameron Hanes 21:48 It's, it's not, it's not their fault, but once they're there-

Joe Rogan 21:52 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 21:52 ... they're not going anywhere.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Well, places where they exist, they have a different perspective on 'em. I remember I was in BC, um, and I ran into this man at the airport and, uh, I've, I forget why he came up to me. I think, like, I had a, maybe I had a hunting T-shirt on or something. Something-

Cameron Hanes 22:09 Keep Hammering.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Maybe it was a Keep Hammering shirt.

Cameron Hanes 22:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:11 But he, he came up to me and he said, uh, "Are you a hunter?" And I said, "Yeah, I, yeah." And he goes, uh, he goes, "Yeah, we, uh, we do a lotta hunting up here." He goes, uh, "I do a lot of wolf hunting."

Cameron Hanes 22:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:21 And, uh, I was like, "Y- w- you wolf hunt?" Like, just right out, right out of the gate at the airport.

Cameron Hanes 22:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:26 "I'm a wolf hunter."

Cameron Hanes 22:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:28 And I, I go, "Why do you hunt wolves? Like, what are you hunting wolves for?" This is, like, early on in my-

Cameron Hanes 22:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:32 ... in my hunting days.

Cameron Hanes 22:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:33 And he's like, "If you don't hunt them, man, you got a real problem with their numbers."

Cameron Hanes 22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:36 He goes, uh, "I..." And he was telling me stories about friends that have ranches and they get attacked by wolves.

Cameron Hanes 22:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:40 You know, the, the, the cattle get attacked by wolves. And he was telling me that they take barrels of frozen meat and that they freeze 'em with water and then they leave these big bricks-

Cameron Hanes 22:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:50 ... of frozen meat and water, uh, out for wolves and then he's got stands set up-

Cameron Hanes 22:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:56 ... where he, uh, he waits-

Cameron Hanes 22:57 To hunt 'em.

Joe Rogan 22:57 ... for wolves c- because it takes a long time for them to eat through the meat and the ice, like this, like a barrel-

Cameron Hanes 23:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:03 ... filled with... And, you know, he just kinda sets up shop and he goes in, and he goes, "Some of 'em are just too smart." He goes, "I'll set that up," and they're like, "Nope, I know what that is."

Cameron Hanes 23:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:11 "They won't come anywhere near it."

Cameron Hanes 23:12 No.

Joe Rogan 23:12 He goes, "You'd be amazed how smart they are."

Cameron Hanes 23:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:14 But it's just, people that live, like in BC, in northern BC, there's a lotta wolves.

Cameron Hanes 23:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:19 They have w- wolf issues up there. And those people, they have a completely different attitude about what a wolf is.

Cameron Hanes 23:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:26 And it c-

Cameron Hanes 23:26 But it, it's the people that know wolves.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 23:29 It's just the same thing in BC with the grizzly bears.

Joe Rogan 23:31 Right.

Cameron Hanes 23:31 You know? I mean, and anybody who's-

Joe Rogan 23:33 Exactly.

Cameron Hanes 23:33 ... who's out in the bush knows, hey, grizzlies are a big problem out here, but the people in the city make the decisions o- with the vote.

Joe Rogan 23:39 Right, and that's what happened when they banned w- grizzly bear hunting in BC.

Cameron Hanes 23:44 And that's what would likely happen in Colorado with wolves.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Yeah, most likely. Yeah, I mean, Colorado's Denver and Boulder.

Cameron Hanes 23:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Right? That's the big population centers.

Cameron Hanes 23:51 Very liberal, r- liberal.

Joe Rogan 23:53 Very. And they're not going to be into shooting wolves.

Cameron Hanes 23:56 Anybody who's out there-

Joe Rogan 23:58 Wolves are cool.

Cameron Hanes 23:58 ... like where I was and the guys I'm hunting with, there's no, no debate.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:03 No wolves.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:04 And that's, uh, yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 24:06 But some people say, like, the reason that's the case is because people want a lotta animals that they can hunt.

Cameron Hanes 24:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:12 Like, this is the argument. Like, Steve Rennell has actually talked about this before with Alaska, that Alaska's done this sort of over-management of wolves in certain areas-

Cameron Hanes 24:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:20 ... because they wanna make sure there's a high number of moose and caribou and, and deer so that people will come up there to hunt.

Cameron Hanes 24:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 You know, 'cause they're trying to maintain... And he's like, w-... there's an argument that that's not the natural ecosystem. There's a-

Cameron Hanes 24:34 The natural ecosystem doesn't include skyscrapers.

Joe Rogan 24:37 That's true too.

Cameron Hanes 24:38 (laughs) So, yeah, I mean, humans doing fringe on, th- that's part of it.

Joe Rogan 24:42 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:42 So it's never gonna be, it's never gonna be like caveman or Native American times. It's never gonna be back to that.

Joe Rogan 24:48 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:48 So we're trying to balance it as best we can.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 24:50 And, you know, big game animals are a resource. They're a resource for the states. They, you know, hunters do come in. They contribute to a lot of things, the habitat, the conservation, um, different projects. And that's hunting money. So if the w- there's a bunch of wolves there and you can't hunt the wolves because these groups have, have protested and made it illegal, and then the wolves are killing all the deer and elk, yeah, that's not gonna work.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Yeah. It's, it's, um, it's an interesting situation because I love the fact that there are places where there are wolves. Like, uh-

Cameron Hanes 25:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:23 ... whenever we've gone to BC to John and Jen's place up there-

Cameron Hanes 25:26 Alberta.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Yeah, or I'd say, sorry, Alberta.

Cameron Hanes 25:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:29 Whenever we've gone up there, um, in Canada, you, you know there's wolves in that area.

Cameron Hanes 25:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:33 And there's something cool about it. I remember we saw one once in the distance crossing a, crossing a road.

Cameron Hanes 25:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:39 It was pretty far away.

Cameron Hanes 25:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:40 But I re- that was like the f- closest I've ever been to a wolf. But just seeing it crossing that road, and just I'm like, "Look at that."

Cameron Hanes 25:46 I know.

Joe Rogan 25:46 "That's a fucking wolf."

Cameron Hanes 25:47 Yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 25:48 Whoa.

Cameron Hanes 25:48 ... I think the, we get a, we get our bear license, but then we also get, um, a license for wolves. I think it's 25 or 50 bucks. It's pretty cheap. And there's always a hope that you'll see a wolf, and it'd be nice to get an arrow in one, and, um...

Joe Rogan 26:03 Well, they wanna control them because th- they destroy the-

Cameron Hanes 26:05 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:05 ... population of the, the moose and the elk and the... And it's, you know, the arg- it's a... For people that don't, that aren't in that world, they're like, "Well, why would y- why would you wanna kill a wolf?" Like, "Why don't just let them sort it out?"

Cameron Hanes 26:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:19 Like, that's the California argument.

Cameron Hanes 26:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:21 Like, what they wanna do essentially, the people that manage wildlife, a lot of them at least in California, they would like to eliminate hunting.

Cameron Hanes 26:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:28 And let the animals all take care of themselves in some sort of normal wild way.

Cameron Hanes 26:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:33 And force everyone to eat tofu.

Cameron Hanes 26:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:36 Force you to eat tofu-

Cameron Hanes 26:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:36 ... until you grow breasts.

Cameron Hanes 26:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:38 I think that's the plan. I think it's written somewhere.

Cameron Hanes 26:40 Uh.

Joe Rogan 26:40 I don't think that's true.

Cameron Hanes 26:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:41 But I do think that they, they don't like the idea of human beings, uh, they... Like, there's things that people will accept, like deer hunting.

Cameron Hanes 26:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:50 People have deer hunted forever. A lot of people have eaten deer.

Cameron Hanes 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:53 Deer tastes good.

Cameron Hanes 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:54 That makes sense.

Cameron Hanes 26:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:55 But as soon as you move into things like mountain lions, like even if you tell people-

Cameron Hanes 26:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:58 ... that mountain lions taste good, they don't wanna hear that.

Cameron Hanes 27:00 No.

Joe Rogan 27:01 They do not want to hear you're eating mountain lions.

Cameron Hanes 27:02 Well, they're not seeing lions, so they don't think there's any out there, but California is riddled with mountain lions.

Joe Rogan 27:08 Yeah, there's quite a few.

Cameron Hanes 27:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:09 There's quite a few. And, uh, they also don't have bad experiences with them. I think the people that have bad experiences with them have a completely different attitude.

Cameron Hanes 27:16 Yeah, you have-

Joe Rogan 27:16 Because then-

Cameron Hanes 27:16 ... one on your back-

Joe Rogan 27:17 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 27:17 ... you want it hunted.

Joe Rogan 27:18 Yeah. Now, it's not, you're not in Disney.

Cameron Hanes 27:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 You're not in a Disney movie.

Cameron Hanes 27:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:21 Now, you're a part of the food chain and you realize like, "Oh, I'm way down here."

Cameron Hanes 27:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:26 "I'm not up here." When I'm in my house and I've got a gun-

Cameron Hanes 27:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:29 ... I'm up here. But when you're, uh, out in the woods and you don't have a gun and you're hiking-

Cameron Hanes 27:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:34 ... and you realize you're being stalked-

Cameron Hanes 27:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:37 There's a crazy video that I saw once from Colorado, this guy, and, uh, there's a mountain lion slowly walking towards him on this trail. And he's trying to figure out what to do-

Cameron Hanes 27:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 ... and he's talking to it and he's like saying, "Hey, get the fuck out of here." Like-

Cameron Hanes 27:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:50 And, you know, you realize like he got away. Like-

Cameron Hanes 27:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:52 ... the mountain lion gave up on him luckily, but that could have been the end of that guy's life. That thing-

Cameron Hanes 27:58 For sure.

Joe Rogan 27:58 ... is just slowly moving towards him and trying to figure out whether or not it could eat him, and that's all it does. It's not like, "I've never done this before. I don't know if I can do this." Like-

Cameron Hanes 28:06 No.

Joe Rogan 28:06 ... it takes down things every single day.

Cameron Hanes 28:08 Yeah. I mean, it definitely, yeah, when it's, when a predator locks eyes on you like that, it's definitely a different feeling. I mean, yeah. It's, uh, they're good at what they do. I mean, they kill.

Joe Rogan 28:22 Yeah. Um, I remember that, uh, Under Armor commercial that you did-

Cameron Hanes 28:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:26 ... where, uh, they had a wolf in the-

Cameron Hanes 28:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:28 ... commercial with you.

Cameron Hanes 28:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:29 And you said (laughs) , you said th- they could only get the wolf to growl one time 'cause after that it was over, like you, you could not control the wolf.

Cameron Hanes 28:36 No. Yeah, we, we, um, to make it growl, to make it mad, we gave him meat and then took it away. So it was very upset it didn't get the meat. But once it got in that, 'cause it was obviously a, a tame wolf or a, it'd been in movies-

Joe Rogan 28:52 Trained.

Cameron Hanes 28:52 ... trained wolf. Um, but once you introduce meat and it got in that mindset of, of meat, yeah, then that wa- that was gonna be it.

Joe Rogan 28:59 Yeah, this is the, the commercial. It's an awesome commercial. How long ago was this commercial?

Cameron Hanes 29:04 Um, I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Quite a few years ago, right?

Cameron Hanes 29:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Like four or five at least, right?

Cameron Hanes 29:11 What does it say?

Guest (unidentified brief interjection) 29:11 2013.

Cameron Hanes 29:11 2013, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:11 Damn, seven years ago.

Cameron Hanes 29:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 It's a dope commercial.

Cameron Hanes 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 And-

Cameron Hanes 29:15 It's cool. The wolf was awesome. I mean, wolves are amazing.

Joe Rogan 29:19 How big was it?

Cameron Hanes 29:20 It was tall. I mean, I'd, I'd say it's probably 120, 130 pounds, I guess. But they're a lot taller than what you, like compared to a dog, a normal dog.

Joe Rogan 29:34 How come they don't do more of these commercials?

Cameron Hanes 29:36 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 29:37 So the whole idea is that you and the wolf are in competition and that you won out.

Cameron Hanes 29:41 Yeah. See, I got the bowl and it's mad.

Joe Rogan 29:43 And so that's when it, it did that growling.

Cameron Hanes 29:45 Yeah. Yeah, and then tha- after, after it did that, that was it.

Joe Rogan 29:49 You could tell it's got a collar. Back that up a little bit.

Cameron Hanes 29:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:52 Back that up a little bit. Look, look at that.

Cameron Hanes 29:54 Yeah. Yeah, it has... Well, it's just a little, it's a little rope, but that's, it had its hair matted down right there.

Joe Rogan 29:59 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 30:00 But it's a little rope.

Joe Rogan 30:01 That's someone's dog, bro.

Cameron Hanes 30:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:03 That's a husky.

Cameron Hanes 30:04 No. It was a wolf-

Joe Rogan 30:06 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 30:06 ... but it's, yeah, uh, uh, it had a little piece of rope on it, but...

Joe Rogan 30:08 Have you ever heard the John Dudley story that he told on the podcast?

Cameron Hanes 30:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:11 That's a crazy story.

Cameron Hanes 30:12 Being surrounded by a wolf-

Joe Rogan 30:13 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 30:13 ... or something like that?

Joe Rogan 30:13 Well, they fucked up and it was like that scene in The Grey. They killed an elk-

Cameron Hanes 30:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:17 ... and they didn't realize they killed an elk literally in the wolf's den.

Cameron Hanes 30:21 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Like, where they killed the elk, there was like bones all over the place-

Cameron Hanes 30:24 Uh-oh.

Joe Rogan 30:24 ... in the area, and they're like, "Oh, shit." And these wolves circled them and decided that they were gonna take the elk.

Cameron Hanes 30:31 Wow.

Joe Rogan 30:31 Yeah, and he-

Cameron Hanes 30:32 What, what, where was that?

Joe Rogan 30:33 It was in BC.

Cameron Hanes 30:34 BC.

Joe Rogan 30:34 And it was him and a guide, and the guide only had a certain amount of bullets.

Cameron Hanes 30:39 Oh.

Joe Rogan 30:39 And, uh, he only had a certain amount of ... 'Cause John only uses a four-arrow quiver.

Cameron Hanes 30:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:43 So John shot the, uh, elk with one quiver, or one arrow-

Cameron Hanes 30:47 Yeah, one arrow.

Joe Rogan 30:47 ... from his quiver.

Cameron Hanes 30:47 Yeah, three left.

Joe Rogan 30:48 And then he had three left, and he killed two other wolves and he had one arrow left, and, uh, they had shot three wolves together.

Cameron Hanes 30:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:57 Like, and the wolves were running at them, running-

Cameron Hanes 30:59 Really?

Joe Rogan 30:59 ... at them. He killed two wolves that were running at him.

Cameron Hanes 31:02 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:03 Yeah, and then one of them, he thinks was the alpha male, was sitting on the top of this ridge-

Cameron Hanes 31:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:09 ... like, at about, I think he said about 50, 60 yards-

Cameron Hanes 31:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:11 ... staring at him, and he drew back for that one, and then he took off and then-

Cameron Hanes 31:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:15 ... the whole pack just took off with him. They, they'd abandoned the situation-

Cameron Hanes 31:19 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:19 ... 'cause they realized what was going on. But when they shot one, he said all the other ones started howling.

Cameron Hanes 31:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:24 Like they tried to figure out who was dead.

Cameron Hanes 31:26 Yeah, check in.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 31:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Which is crazy.

Cameron Hanes 31:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:28 So like he's basically-

Cameron Hanes 31:29 They're smart.

Joe Rogan 31:30 ... in a weird little war with these wolves.

Cameron Hanes 31:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:32 And they were, they were making runs at him.

Cameron Hanes 31:35 That'd be intense.

Joe Rogan 31:36 Oh my God. He said, "Our back was to a tree."

Cameron Hanes 31:38 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:38 And he goes, "The guide only has like a couple of bullets."

Cameron Hanes 31:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:41 'Cause the guide's bullets are just to scare off grizzlies.

Cameron Hanes 31:43 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:44 And he doesn't want to shoot it, he just wants to scare it.

Cameron Hanes 31:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:47 They're not hunting grizzlies.

Cameron Hanes 31:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:48 So he brings a couple, "Oh, I'll just br- grab a couple bullets, put them in my pocket," and then here they are out in this situation where they're, they're literally getting run up on by a pack of wolves.

Cameron Hanes 31:57 Man, that's intense. I couldn't imagine.

Joe Rogan 32:00 It's wild.

Cameron Hanes 32:01 Yeah. I've seen, I've seen w- me and Roy, um, the la- it wasn't our last hunt, this was the hunt before, I was hunting brown bear up in Alaska, and I wanted to kill ... In this area there's so many brown bear you could kill two, so I wanted to kill one spot and stalk, and then hunting in, hunting in a tree and s- and you can bait them up there 'cause there's so many. And they had just made this, um, legal, so my goal was to hunt both ways. Anyway, I killed a bear on the spot and stalk, and, uh, we were up in the tree trying to kill, um, a- another bear. We were on this island. And, uh, it was, uh, I thought we saw a flash of a bear earlier and it was getting dark. It's like, well it never really gets dar- it gets dark for about an hour and a half at this time of year, this was in July, and so we were just gonna stay in the tree the whole time. So we got in there at, um, 7:00 at night and we were gonna stay till 5:00 in the morning and just kinda ride out the, the darkness. And, uh, I saw a flash and I thought we'd seen a bear earlier but it didn't come in, and I thought, "Oh, the bear's coming back." Turns out it was a wolf, and it was a black wolf and it came in there, I have it on video, I haven't even shared it yet, but, um, it was a black wolf and it stopped there at about 20 or 25 yards, and it was so ... Just a wild wolf that close is pretty amazing. It's like they're a special animal.

Joe Rogan 33:25 It is. Th- there's something about them 'cause they're so damn smart.

Cameron Hanes 33:28 Yeah. It reminds me of that picture, i- well the wolf in the picture, I think ... Did they send you one too? That photographer, the wolf I have in the snow, the black one-

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 33:36 ... with its head down?

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 33:37 Yeah. It reminded me of that old-

Joe Rogan 33:38 Happened at the old studio.

Cameron Hanes 33:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 33:39 Yeah. Just such a incredible animal. So yeah, I, I love wolves. I definitely don't think, um, wolves should be wiped out or anything like that, but I just don't think wolves in Colorado is ... That's not, that's not a thing we should do.

Joe Rogan 33:52 (laughs) It's just, reintroducing them just sets off a whole chain.

Cameron Hanes 33:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:57 I need to talk to somebody. There was a guy that is a, uh, a pro, he's a biologist and he's pro wolf reintroduction.

Cameron Hanes 34:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:02 I need to have m- y- you wanna be on with him?

Cameron Hanes 34:04 Sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:05 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 34:05 Let's do it.

Joe Rogan 34:05 It'd be an interesting conversation.

Cameron Hanes 34:07 Yeah. Let's do it.

Joe Rogan 34:07 Maybe he could explain.

Cameron Hanes 34:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:09 There's, there's a great video called, uh, How Wolves Ch- I think it's called How Wolves Change Rivers.

Cameron Hanes 34:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:15 You seen that?

Cameron Hanes 34:16 Yeah, I've he- I've heard about it.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 34:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Really interesting video about this guy, he talked about the reintroduction of wolves in the 1990s in the Yellowstone.

Cameron Hanes 34:21 In Yellowstone, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:22 Yeah, and about how it's changed the ecosystem for the better.

Cameron Hanes 34:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:26 But then I looked into the guy.

Cameron Hanes 34:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:27 And the guy is, uh-

Cameron Hanes 34:28 For the better is, uh-

Joe Rogan 34:29 Yeah. He's an eccentric character.

Cameron Hanes 34:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Uh, I'm not saying he's wrong, but he's, uh, he's into what's called rewilding.

Cameron Hanes 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:36 And he wants to reintroduce wild animals into places, including like the UK.

Cameron Hanes 34:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:42 He wants to reintroduce like, he's like, "The UK used to have lions and elephants and all these d- all these different animals."

Cameron Hanes 34:47 Wow.

Joe Rogan 34:47 He wants to ... L- see if we could find this gentleman, the, the guy, it's, it, his, the concept is rewilding, and apparently he was like this really depressed guy-

Cameron Hanes 34:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:57 ... who was like urban, you know, doing the, the, the normal city thing in, in England, and, uh, g- got really into the idea of wildlife-

Cameron Hanes 35:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:07 ... and reintroducing wildlife.

Cameron Hanes 35:09 Yeah. I feel bad for them over there. I mean, no hunting.

Joe Rogan 35:13 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 35:13 I mean, you know, me without hunting ... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 35:18 Well, that's your-

Cameron Hanes 35:19 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 35:20 ... your, uh, your source of food. It's also what you train for, which when I first met you, um, and I was like, "Why does this guy train so hard? Like, what is he doing?"

Cameron Hanes 35:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:29 And then you're like, "Oh, I, I train for, uh, bow hunting." I'm like, "What?"

Cameron Hanes 35:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Like what is happening when you bow hunt?

Cameron Hanes 35:35 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:36 Like wh- are you in a race? Like-

Cameron Hanes 35:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:37 ... what's going on? And then the first time you took me I was like, "Oh."

Cameron Hanes 35:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:40 "Oh, okay, I get it." Fuck, you have to be in like really crazy shape-

Cameron Hanes 35:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:44 ... to pull this off.

Cameron Hanes 35:46 Well, you don't, you don't have to, but here, what I know is like when hunting, and you know how it is now, you've done it for years, but in the mountains, um, there's so many deci- yeah, you can get up and down the mountains, you can get, uh, around elk, but there's so many decisions that you have to make and pr- it's, it's related on performance, so the higher level of performance, the better decisions you're gonna make. The, I mean, like on these last hunts, I, I pretty much have an arrow nocked, I've, I killed two bulls this year and a buck and a bear, and I've had an arrow nocked pretty much all day, pretty m- ready to go, and that's, that can be fatiguing.

Joe Rogan 36:24 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 36:24 Just this walking around slowly is tiring. So when you're at a heightened level for-

Joe Rogan 36:33 ... eight hours.

Cameron Hanes 36:34 Or more. 15 hours on some days. And you're covering distance and, and it's like, I wanna be ready at all times for anything that happens. So I have an arrow nocked and I am ready. So, I ... To do that, it's exhausting. If I, if I didn't train the way I do, I couldn't do that, so who knows what that would result in as far as success? But people don't realize that just ... I mean, you know what it's like when you're hunting. It's like almost, you know, yoga poses all day essentially I've heard people describe it as.

Joe Rogan 37:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:07 And, uh, 'cause you're going so slow and so controlled and every footstep is, is controlled and, and s- ... And, uh, um-

Joe Rogan 37:14 Just freezing. Like if you're in a situation and an elk sees you and you have to freeze-

Cameron Hanes 37:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:18 ... and you're holding your bow in your hand-

Cameron Hanes 37:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:20 ... you don't realize how damn heavy that thing is.

Cameron Hanes 37:22 And they don't have anywhere to go.

Joe Rogan 37:24 And they'll just stand there.

Cameron Hanes 37:25 They'll ... They have-

Joe Rogan 37:25 Just stand there.

Cameron Hanes 37:26 ... nothing to do-

Joe Rogan 37:27 Stare through you.

Cameron Hanes 37:27 ... other than not let whatever they're unsure about kill them.

Joe Rogan 37:30 And their vision is based on edge detection, right?

Cameron Hanes 37:33 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 37:34 I think it's based on they see-

Cameron Hanes 37:37 What does that mean?

Joe Rogan 37:37 ... your movement. They ... Like, that's why camo works.

Cameron Hanes 37:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Because if you are ... If you're standing there, they don't say, "Oh, there's a dude in camo."

Cameron Hanes 37:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:43 They see the pattern and they see the edges. As long as you don't move-

Cameron Hanes 37:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:47 ... they don't see-

Cameron Hanes 37:48 Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 ... anything funky.

Cameron Hanes 37:48 Movement. They definitely pick up movement.

Joe Rogan 37:50 But when they see movement with like the edge detection, like moving edges-

Cameron Hanes 37:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:54 ... like this edge is moving towards that edge, they're like, "What is that?"

Cameron Hanes 37:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:57 But if you just stand still-

Cameron Hanes 37:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:58 But if you got that bow in your hand, you're like, "Fuck, uh, I can hold it like this." And you've got your bow out like this and you're trying to hold it steady, like you got maybe a minute, two minutes in you-

Cameron Hanes 38:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:08 ... before that fucker starts to shake and then the elk is like whoa-

Cameron Hanes 38:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:11 ... and then shroom.

Cameron Hanes 38:13 Barking. Yeah. And so you, you quickly realize when doing hunts like that what being in shape means.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Yeah. Oh, dude, I, I learned. Like last year I thought I was in pretty good shape till I went up there with you. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 38:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:25 And I was like go- ... That one hill that we went up to get the bull-

Cameron Hanes 38:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:28 ... that we wind up getting, fuck that was hard.

Cameron Hanes 38:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:31 And to get up there and then the only good thing is that I was in good enough shape that even though I was exhausted I got my c- my heart rate back quick.

Cameron Hanes 38:37 Yeah. It recovered.

Joe Rogan 38:37 And then I could, I could, I could ... It wasn't like I was beaten down once I got up there.

Cameron Hanes 38:41 Yeah, 'cause you still have to ... We had to get the wind right to get up the hill-

Joe Rogan 38:44 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 38:44 ... is essentially what it was, and that recovery is all related to how good a shape you're in.

Joe Rogan 38:49 That thing that we had last year, I mean, I don't know if we ever played the clip, but that moment that we had up there was one of the wildest elk hunting moments. And I, and I don't have- I haven't been h- elk hunting for that long.

Cameron Hanes 39:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:00 That was the wildest thing I'd ever experienced. There was-

Cameron Hanes 39:02 When you killed your bull?

Joe Rogan 39:03 There was ... How many bulls were up there?

Cameron Hanes 39:05 Like nine.

Joe Rogan 39:06 Just screaming.

Cameron Hanes 39:07 I mean-

Joe Rogan 39:07 Just like, (screams)

Cameron Hanes 39:08 We'd, we'd pass some bulls but there was nine just on that one little hillside.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 39:12 It was like w- it's wha- what I would call a rut fest.

Joe Rogan 39:15 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 39:15 So there must've been some hot cows in there. Those bulls were coming in. They can smell a hot cow which means the cow in estrus, so she's ready to breed. Um, ovulating I guess is what you'd say if ... For a human. But, uh, so she was in estrus, means she's a hot cow. I mean, those bulls are like, "Okay." I mean, bulls kill each other.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 39:35 They kill each other all the time fighting.

Joe Rogan 39:36 Well, tell the story about the one bull that you shot that you thought was in its bed but was actually dead.

Cameron Hanes 39:42 Yes. Yeah. No, so I, I, uh, I snuck up and I saw this bull and its head was ... I don't know. I mean, they get exhausted so it's ... They can lay their head down a little bit and rest. I mean, middle of the day, they up all night rutting, chasing, fighting. So I saw this bull bedded and it was a big bull and I'm like, "God, I don't know. I mean, it's not moving but I don't know. Might as well ..." We got to make sure. So I took my boots off and I started sneaking in, sneaking in, sneaking in, and I got to about 20 some yards and I'm like, "I don't know, but I don't wanna be wrong." So I shot the bull, never moved and it was already dead. It'd been killed the night before. It took a tine in the neck it looked like.

Joe Rogan 40:25 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 40:26 And it, and it got ... It was dead from fighting.

Joe Rogan 40:29 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 40:29 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 40:30 Now do you ... If it got killed the night before, can you salvage the meat?

Cameron Hanes 40:33 I don't think so. I mean, it didn't look good.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Was it hot? It was a hot day?

Cameron Hanes 40:37 Yeah. It was hot. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:38 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:38 That's a bummer.

Cameron Hanes 40:39 Mm-hmm. I know. That's ... I mean, that's life in the wild.

Joe Rogan 40:43 It is life in the wild. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 It's, uh ... We, we stumbled across one that had been killed, had been, uh, poked in the side but it would've been quite a while ago and it was rotten.

Cameron Hanes 40:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:52 It smelled terrible.

Cameron Hanes 40:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:54 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 40:54 This one ... I'm guessing it was the night before. It was, it wasn't that long but the meat had turned.

Joe Rogan 40:58 You realize that, you know, those antlers on their head, that's not just for looks.

Cameron Hanes 41:02 No.

Joe Rogan 41:02 They're, they were ... That's their weapons of war.

Cameron Hanes 41:05 No. Um, this, uh, this kid Wes on the last hunt that I just did in Colorado, he had some good footage of bulls fighting. Oh my God, dude, they're getting after it.

Joe Rogan 41:16 It's wild.

Cameron Hanes 41:17 Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh ... That's what makes it, you know ... Between that, being, um, they're so aggressive, then the sounds they make. If people haven't heard them, if you hear a bull bugle at 20 or 30 yards, you can't believe how loud that is. Then you couple that with the antlers and the size of them and their aggressive nature, and they're coming ... You can hear them coming through the trees and shit's a-breaking. And as a hunter you're sitting there and it's a lot to absorb. You know, it's li- ... I saw somebody yesterday commented that they'd been practicing at 20 yards on a target and, uh, it's so small compared to a bull elk. And it's like, that must look like a house at 20 yards, how could you miss? And I'm like, "Well, people shoot over the back of bulls all the time at 20 yards because it's so intense."

Joe Rogan 42:04 Yeah. If you-

Cameron Hanes 42:04 They just panic.

Joe Rogan 42:05 ... have never experienced it-

Cameron Hanes 42:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:07 ... the screaming alone. It's like when you're near it-

Cameron Hanes 42:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 ... it ... They sound like something from Lord of the Rings.

Cameron Hanes 42:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:13 The, they're ... What an animal, man. I mean-

Cameron Hanes 42:15 Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:15 They have everything going for them.

Cameron Hanes 42:17 They do.

Joe Rogan 42:17 The, the looks, the crazy antlers, the delicious meat, the crazy sounds they make-

Cameron Hanes 42:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:22 ... the wild places that they live-

Cameron Hanes 42:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:25 ... and the romantic but short life that they live.

Cameron Hanes 42:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 They live this wild, crazy short life running away from mountain lions and bears and, and wolves and, and trying to get laid.

Cameron Hanes 42:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:36 And then fighting other elk to the death with swords that grow out of your head.

Cameron Hanes 42:40 ... which sounds like the life I wanna live.

Joe Rogan 42:42 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 42:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:43 No. No, I'd rather be the bow hunter.

Cameron Hanes 42:45 Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:45 Sleep in a nice place, and e- even if it's just a tent.

Cameron Hanes 42:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:48 Just someplace with a sleeping bag.

Cameron Hanes 42:51 Shelter.

Joe Rogan 42:51 Nice little pillow. Ah.

Cameron Hanes 42:52 I know.

Joe Rogan 42:52 Mm.

Cameron Hanes 42:53 Yeah. "We'll get up and do this again tomorrow." They're out-

Joe Rogan 42:54 Yeah, drink out of a cooler.

Cameron Hanes 42:56 Meanwhile, they're out there surviving-

Joe Rogan 42:58 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 42:58 ... all night. Never, never lets up.

Joe Rogan 43:00 To me, it's my, uh, one of my favorite parts of the year is just the reset of just experiencing the woods, the real wilderness.

Cameron Hanes 43:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:08 Like, where we're going in Utah in the mountains, what is th- what is that mountain range called?

Cameron Hanes 43:12 Um, is it the Unita- U- Un- Unitas or Unitas-

Joe Rogan 43:18 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 43:18 ... or something like that?

Joe Rogan 43:19 Whatever it is, it's, it's a gorgeous mountain range.

Cameron Hanes 43:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:23 It's gorgeous, and it's, it's just- it just reminds you, you know, of what life must have been like before human beings ever existed, before they ever came to this part of the world.

Cameron Hanes 43:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:35 And just walking a- around with those animals, it just- it's a reset. It's a real reset.

Cameron Hanes 43:40 Yeah. Yeah-

Joe Rogan 43:41 And every time I eat that meat, I think about those-

Cameron Hanes 43:43 Oh.

Joe Rogan 43:43 ... those moments.

Cameron Hanes 43:44 I know, that connection, and when we talk about it, I mean, ad- ad nauseum probably, but that, that feeling-

Joe Rogan 43:50 Look at that. God, that's pretty.

Cameron Hanes 43:53 Yeah. Yeah, that's- yeah.

Narrator 43:54 I don't know how to say that.

Joe Rogan 43:55 Unita. U- U- Winne- Uinta? How do you say it?

Cameron Hanes 44:00 I don't know.

Narrator 44:00 Try it.

Joe Rogan 44:01 Try it. Winta? Who- is that a Native American word?

Narrator 44:04 Winta.

Joe Rogan 44:04 Winta?

Cameron Hanes 44:04 I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 44:05 Who made that word up? Why'd they put those letters together like that?

Cameron Hanes 44:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:09 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 44:09 I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 44:10 But that is what it looks like.

Cameron Hanes 44:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:11 That's part of what it looks like.

Cameron Hanes 44:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Really looks like the, um- yeah.

Cameron Hanes 44:16 It does.

Joe Rogan 44:16 Like that right there. That's, that's super- yeah, that's super familiar to me.

Cameron Hanes 44:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:21 So gorgeous.

Cameron Hanes 44:22 Oh, it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 44:23 And we'll hike if- like, we'll start where you see the beginning at the bottom of the screen, and we'll go all the way to that far mountain range.

Cameron Hanes 44:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:31 And, you know, if you're- if you're outta shape-

Cameron Hanes 44:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:36 ... it's a rough go of it.

Cameron Hanes 44:37 You're just gonna ma- take a lot of shortcuts, like, into your decision-making and make a lot of poor decisions.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 44:42 And chances are, you're not gonna- I mean, you can kill. People kill all the time. I see it all the time. "Look, this guy killed, and he doesn't run a marathon a day," or whatever that people want to say.

Joe Rogan 44:50 No, you can get lucky.

Cameron Hanes 44:51 Yeah, y- you can- but if you're gonna have sustained succ- success for decades, uh, multiple times a year, you're gonna have to be at your best.

Joe Rogan 45:00 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 45:00 That's all there is to it.

Joe Rogan 45:02 And I gotta think that a guy like you who does ultra-marathons and all, all this crazy working out, there has to be something to what you're eating. There has to be.

Cameron Hanes 45:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:13 The fact that you're eating all this wild game is that your diet is- like, how much of your diet's meat?

Cameron Hanes 45:20 Oh, probably I would say 40%.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Just 40?

Cameron Hanes 45:23 Yeah, 40 to 50.

Joe Rogan 45:25 What's the rest of it?

Cameron Hanes 45:26 Uh, carbs (laughs) like potatoes and rice and, uh, fruits and vegetables.

Joe Rogan 45:32 Just think about how much wild game you consume and how much- how protein-rich that is and how, like, that dark red meat that you get from the animals.

Cameron Hanes 45:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Like, how, how good that is for you.

Cameron Hanes 45:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:43 That has to have some sort of a- an effect on your, your physical abilities. Because one of the things that people always marvel at with you is, like, "How the fuck does this guy do so many things?"

Cameron Hanes 45:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:54 Like, how do you have the time to get up in the morning- I mean, there's been many times where you've run a marathon a day.

Cameron Hanes 46:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:00 I know people are hearing this, "Oh, this guy's full of shit."

Cameron Hanes 46:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:02 No, no, no, no.

Cameron Hanes 46:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:03 A marathon a day.

Cameron Hanes 46:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:04 You've run m- multiple marathons a day. You've done days where you got up at 3:00 in the morning, more than one day-

Cameron Hanes 46:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:10 ... where you ran a marathon and then went to work.

Cameron Hanes 46:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:14 Or you've run 18, 19 miles, went to work, and then finished the marathon off during your lunch break.

Cameron Hanes 46:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:19 And then you go lift weights, and then you shoot your bow or you shoot your bow and then you lift weights. And, like, it has to play a factor. I know there's just overall endurance and discipline and the fact that you've just always given yourself this hard workload-

Cameron Hanes 46:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:34 ... and your, your body's adapted to it. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

Cameron Hanes 46:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:37 But the fact that you're not injured all the time and the fact that you have all this energy, I gotta think that that wild game plays a big factor in all that.

Cameron Hanes 46:45 I would think. I mean, and I eat wild game every day, s- every single day. And I know that has to help me recover, um, but I, I think aside from that, I think we're- as humans, we're capable of so many amazing things. And it's like, I've- that's why the people who you've had on this podcast that I've, I've like, been obsessed with connecting with because they're humans just like we are, but they- Goggins, they do incredible- it's like how can the same specie of, of wha- whatever, so humans just like everybody else walking around here, do such amazing things? And I, I try t- I wanna connect- I always wanna connect with those people like Goggins, uh, Courtney Dauwalter, um, been running with Emma Coburn lately. She's a, um, Olympic steeplechaser. She won the bronze at the last Olympic. Pro- I'm thinking she's gonna win the gold at this Olympics this coming year. So, I try to think, well, how, how can they do that? They're the same specie as we all are. There must be something- Courtney's, Courtney's the toughest person I've ever been around. I've been around some tough people. But her mental toughness is, is unlike anything you've ever seen. And I-

Joe Rogan 48:00 It's weird, too.

Cameron Hanes 48:01 I've said-

Joe Rogan 48:01 'Cause she seems so nice and normal.

Cameron Hanes 48:03 She is, but she's- yeah, she's- you know, couldn't get more s- uh, uh, you couldn't find a more sweet person. But, um, I've said this before where a dog will run itself to death- that's- yeah, I took that picture right there.

Joe Rogan 48:17 What is this?

Cameron Hanes 48:18 So-

Joe Rogan 48:18 It says, "We estimate I slept fewer than four hours during my 105 hours on the Colorado trail. It was a combination of one-minute trail naps and longer attempts in the RV, and sometimes they happened by accident during a group sunrise photo. Weekend at Bernie's-" Anywa- so she just passed out while she was doing this.

Cameron Hanes 48:35 Yeah, go-

Joe Rogan 48:36 "Less than ideal overall sleep time, but during the later days, the coughing and the wheezing preventing me from being able to fall asleep."

Cameron Hanes 48:42 Yeah. So, that-

Joe Rogan 48:43 Sleep game needs major wor... Ex- explain this whole thing-

Cameron Hanes 48:45 This-

Joe Rogan 48:45 ... that she was trying to accomplish.

Cameron Hanes 48:46 Right. Go to that one Weekend at Bernie's o... Yeah. So, right here. So, we stopped with the sun coming up to take a picture and she'd been going for 105 hours, which I... What is that, over four days? And slept for four hours. So, we stopped to take a picture and she fell asleep. I mean, just passed out. But right after this picture, she's up running.

Joe Rogan 49:07 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 49:08 So, that pi... That other picture on the trail w... That I took with her and Maggie, um...

Joe Rogan 49:15 D... Like, a lot of people will look at this and they'll, they'll say, "What kind of a human wants to do this?"

Cameron Hanes 49:21 This, this was a three-minute nap right here. So, it was gonna be three minutes or maybe six minutes, but something... Sun had just come up and in... Incidentally, I'd just seen a cup... Uh, a big group of bucks in the dark about two hours earlier, about, I think, 3:00 in the morning. This was probably about 5:00 in the morning. But I laid my pack on her legs there and my coats on her legs. She's the closest one. Maggie's is... The second one. Who, Maggie, in her own right, she won the, uh... It's called Big's Backyard Ultra where they run four miles every hour for as long as you can do it.

Joe Rogan 49:54 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 49:54 Get four miles done. And she won it last year. Courtney, the year before, was the first woman. Anyway, so these women are insane. But they took, uh, three-minute naps... Or a six-minute nap right here, then back up, and that's... Resets your body. I mean, it reset... It's like a Control-Alt-Delete. So, before this, she, Courtney, was, like, so exhausted from all this. Maggie would ask a question and she'd answer, barely audibly, two minutes later. And then, so it was, it was me, or Courtney, then me, then Maggie. And Maggie would say something to Courtney, nothing. Two minutes later, she'd like... I could barely hear it. She'd answer whatever Maggie said, 'cause her brain was like... They said her, her blood, her, her oxygen level and brain was at 70%, which that was because of the coughing and lung issues and the high altitude and the dust and everything. So, it just... Her brain wasn't working like it should.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Let's explain what she was trying to do.

Cameron Hanes 50:56 Yeah, she was... Okay, she was trying to... The fastest known time to run the entire Colorado trail from Durango to Denver is eight days and something like two hours, I think. She wanted to beat that by a day. So, she was trying to run 490 miles from Durango to Denver with 90,000 feet of elevation gain total in seven days. And, uh, to do that, I mean, it's a gr... You can't... Sleep is... I don't know. I don't know what their perfect answer is. She, uh, she was about 22 hours, I think, at, at one point and ahead of the record.

Joe Rogan 51:41 She's-

Cameron Hanes 51:41 But she ended up in the emergency room just because her, her... She pushed so hard. What I was gonna say is, animals will push-

Joe Rogan 51:50 Look how s... Look how fucked up she looks.

Cameron Hanes 51:52 Yeah. She's like-

Joe Rogan 51:52 She looks so tired.

Cameron Hanes 51:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:54 Look at her eyes.

Cameron Hanes 51:55 I know.

Joe Rogan 51:56 She just looks exhausted.

Cameron Hanes 51:57 Yeah. So, that... Her pulse oxygen was 70, which it's supposed to be in the 90s. And if it's at 80 or 85, they say go immediately to the emergency room, to the doctor. And hers was at 70, so her brain just wasn't getting enough oxygen. And the doctor, I believe the doctor said that... 'Cause they said, "Well, what, what would happen if she keeps pushing?" And he, he said, "Well, she'll die on the trail." So...

Joe Rogan 52:24 Well, that's the problem with someone who's that tough.

Cameron Hanes 52:26 Yeah. That's what I was gonna say.

Joe Rogan 52:27 Like, they literally could push themselves to the point where their heart stops.

Cameron Hanes 52:29 And animals do that. We know that.

Joe Rogan 52:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 52:31 A dog will push itself. A horse will push itself so hard that they will die.

Joe Rogan 52:36 Not my dog.

Cameron Hanes 52:37 (laughs) No, your dog won't. Some dogs-

Joe Rogan 52:38 (laughs) I throw a ball from... Four or five times in a row and he just-

Cameron Hanes 52:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:41 He drops the ball and lays down. He's like, "Bro, we're done." (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 52:44 Yeah. Right. So, some dogs.

Joe Rogan 52:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 52:47 My dog, like Cashwood, he's a lab and all he wants to do, uh, he'll do that 'til he does.

Joe Rogan 52:52 He just wanna run.

Cameron Hanes 52:52 Right. So, and horses do that.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 52:54 Horses die a lot. Or not a lot, but horses die from pushing. So, most humans have that self-preservation mode where... I mean, most humans that s... Like, the hint of discomfort-

Joe Rogan 53:07 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 53:07 ... I'm out.

Joe Rogan 53:08 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 53:08 (laughs) So... But Courtney has that where, um... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Well, goals are interesting because goals are what force you to pass your comfort zone and go into this crazy level where y- you realize you're, you're only tapping into a very small percentage of what your body's capable of.

Cameron Hanes 53:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:29 Like, even Goggins, what is his quote, that most people quit at 40%?

Cameron Hanes 53:32 40%, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:33 Yeah, I think he's 100% accurate there.

Cameron Hanes 53:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:36 I don't know, I'm throwing percentages around here.

Cameron Hanes 53:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:37 40%, 100%.

Cameron Hanes 53:38 It sounds good.

Joe Rogan 53:39 But it... I mean, anybody knows, he knows, right?

Cameron Hanes 53:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:41 But there's, there's a, a thing that you do when you tap into... Like, when you have a goal, when you say, "I'm gonna run 10 miles a day and I'm gonna keep doing..." Like-

Cameron Hanes 53:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:50 My friend Lex Fridman.

Cameron Hanes 53:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:52 Um, the, um, uh, scientist-

Cameron Hanes 53:55 MIT.

Joe Rogan 53:55 ... MIT guy.

Cameron Hanes 53:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:56 Uh, he was on the podcast last week. One of the things that he was talking about was, uh, he did this challenge where he ran, was it four miles e- every four hours for...

Guest (unidentified, remote/clip participant) 54:08 That was... He did two challenges.

Joe Rogan 54:09 Yeah.

Guest (unidentified, remote/clip participant) 54:09 But that was the first one he did.

Cameron Hanes 54:11 Right.

Guest (unidentified, remote/clip participant) 54:11 Like, earlier in the year before it was four hours... Four miles every four hours for 48 hours.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Yeah.

Guest (unidentified, remote/clip participant) 54:16 Or 48 miles or whatever it was.

Joe Rogan 54:17 And just talking about it-

Cameron Hanes 54:19 I think Goggins did-

Joe Rogan 54:20 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 54:21 Goggins set that up.

Joe Rogan 54:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 54:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:22 Yeah. Yeah, him and Goggins were friends.

Cameron Hanes 54:24 Yeah, okay.

Joe Rogan 54:24 And, uh, and then there was some crazy push-up, sit-up, pull-up challenge that they did as well.

Cameron Hanes 54:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 54:29 And, uh, Goggins said, "Whatever you do, I'm gonna do double." (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 54:33 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Which is just a nice little mind fuck when you're, you're falling apart and you realize that Goggins is doing twice what you're doing. But-

Cameron Hanes 54:40 I love him.

Joe Rogan 54:41 There's something about a goal like that, where you set it in motion, and you realize-

Cameron Hanes 54:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:44 ... you have to do it, where it forces you out of your comfort zone. It forces you to realize what your body's actually capable of, which most people just never do. That's one of the great things about making someone compete. Like, the great thing about training for a marathon or getting ready to do something is, like, when you have a goal, and then you actually-

Cameron Hanes 55:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:01 ... and then you're committed to the thing, and you actually-

Cameron Hanes 55:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:03 ... have to go and do it. Then, and only then, do you often find out what your body's actually capable of.

Cameron Hanes 55:08 Yeah, yeah. And still, even, even during that goal, or that performance, it's, uh, it's really hard to push, I mean, push and give all you got. I remember my kids, I would say, I'd say, "Did you give all you got?" "Yeah." I'd go, "Well, I didn't see, you weren't throwing up. I didn't, you didn't throw up at the end." You know? It's like, when you push, I, I don't even, I mean, it's not like I'm, I can say I do that every time either. But it's like, who really pushes with all they got?

Joe Rogan 55:41 Well, and what is that line? Like-

Cameron Hanes 55:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:43 ... what's after that line? Do you die?

Cameron Hanes 55:44 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 55:45 And would you be happy if you pushed so hard that you died? Like, well-

Cameron Hanes 55:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:48 ... this is a good way to die.

Cameron Hanes 55:50 Well, no, but then you know you gave your all.

Joe Rogan 55:52 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 55:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:53 That's-

Cameron Hanes 55:53 But, but isn't that... So, that's what fascinates me-

Joe Rogan 55:56 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 55:56 ... with these people, with the, with the Goggins and, and Courtney and, and, uh, um, you know, also in some respects, Emma, is like, put, is like performing at this level, and it's just incredible to me.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 56:09 It's like, so I wanna know how can I take whatever mindset they have, apply it to myself and what I do? So, that's all I've tried to do is like... And I, and I've said a million times, I'm definitely not talented. I spend time around people who are the best at what they do and hoping a little bit, I can pick up a little bit, um, get that mindset. Like Goggins flips that switch. Courtney just has no switch, it's just who she is.

Joe Rogan 56:35 What is, what is talent? I wanna know what that is. Like, what, when you say you're not talented, 'cause you're obviously very successful at both as a bow hunter, you're probably... I mean, if there's three top bow hunters on the planet Earth, you're in that top. I don't know how many people are the, the best bow hunters on Earth, but in my mind, you're, you're in that group. What is talent? Like, if you're that good at bow hunting, and I've seen you shoot targets 150 yards away-

Cameron Hanes 56:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:59 ... and shoot balloons. I mean, you've, just you've been doing ridiculous shit. You're obviously incredibly talented with a bow. Like what is talent? What does that mean to you when you say-

Cameron Hanes 57:07 To-

Joe Rogan 57:07 ... "I'm not talented."

Cameron Hanes 57:08 Uh, to me, I, I always equate talent to physical, um, like performance, like say running 100 meters or ju-

Joe Rogan 57:16 Like a freak athlete.

Cameron Hanes 57:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Okay.

Cameron Hanes 57:18 That, I, I equate talent to athleticism.

Joe Rogan 57:21 Right. Like a, like a Mike Tyson or a, you know, a Paulo Costa.

Cameron Hanes 57:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:27 Or some just freak athlete.

Cameron Hanes 57:28 Or runners. I mean-

Joe Rogan 57:30 Runners, right.

Cameron Hanes 57:30 ... runners, there's like, they've, you know, we've been running-

Joe Rogan 57:32 Usain Bolt.

Cameron Hanes 57:32 We've been running since the beginning of time.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Right.

Cameron Hanes 57:34 If you're one of the fastest to, humans to ever run...

Joe Rogan 57:38 You have to be talented.

Cameron Hanes 57:39 That's, yeah, that's talent.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah, there's things that people get that you are never going to get.

Cameron Hanes 57:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:46 Right? There's, there's a certain amount of speed people c- can generate, a certain amount of power people can generate.

Cameron Hanes 57:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:51 There's things that people can do. But the kind of things that you're doing, it's not requir- it just requires mental strength.

Cameron Hanes 57:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:58 You're, you're doing endurance runs or these long-ass mind torture runs.

Cameron Hanes 58:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:05 They don't require that sprinting shit. They just require that ability to keep going when you don't wanna keep going.

Cameron Hanes 58:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:10 The ability to maintain a pace that's painful.

Cameron Hanes 58:13 Right. Yeah, and it's, and I've, I've been t- I was talking to the, 'cause after my hunt in Colorado, I went and ran with Courtney. We did a 14,000-foot peak. And then I ran with Emma the next day. And two totally different athletes. Courtney's, you know, the, the eight, seven days crazy. Emma's the 3,000 meters. And I was talking to them both about pain, because Courtney's pain isn't as intense, but it's for a long ti- a week, you know, or days. Emma's pain, so for, she wants to break nine minutes in the steeplechase. She never has. 9:02 is, is her best, I believe. And, uh, she'll have to break nine minutes probably to win the gold medal.

Joe Rogan 58:57 What's a steeplechase?

Cameron Hanes 58:58 That's 3,000 meters, and it has the barrier, like the water barrier. So you jump over, you jump over barriers, and then there's a water barrier too. Have you ever seen, seen them jump over-

Joe Rogan 59:08 I don't think I've ever seen a steeplechase.

Cameron Hanes 59:10 L- l- look up Emma-

Joe Rogan 59:10 Here it is. Is it right here?

Narrator 59:12 That's her jumping over.

Cameron Hanes 59:12 Yeah, that's her.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Oh, wow.

Cameron Hanes 59:13 That's her.

Joe Rogan 59:13 So you jump over water. Damn, look how much air she gets.

Cameron Hanes 59:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:18 That's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 59:19 So, yeah, so that's her. So, it's like, so she's, she has nine minutes. And you, you can see her, like there's a good video of her winning the World Championships, Emma Coburn World Championship.

Joe Rogan 59:30 So the steeplechase thing, the water, you have to jump over the water? What if you land in the water?

Cameron Hanes 59:35 They, they land in the water.

Joe Rogan 59:36 That's okay?

Cameron Hanes 59:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:37 Just slows you down?

Cameron Hanes 59:39 Um, they, they can't really clear that water, so they plan on, on running and landing in the water.

Joe Rogan 59:44 What a weird thing-

Narrator 59:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:45 ... to have a puddle in your run.

Cameron Hanes 59:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:47 Isn't that weird?

Narrator 59:47 I'm gonna laugh at us, it's gonna be so weird.

Cameron Hanes 59:47 Yeah, so, so see, so that's-

Narrator 59:50 Every day, I think.

Cameron Hanes 59:51 Right. And she's, she's taller than like those, uh, um, the other girls.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Oh, so she-

Cameron Hanes 59:58 They're usually from Ethiopia or Kenya, um, s-

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 So what a weird event. You make them jump over a fence into a pond.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 That's so bizz-

Cameron Hanes 1:00:07 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 I never knew this existed.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:08 No, see, like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 How do I go this long?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:09 ... here, here's another one, yeah. So they ru- some don't have the water, like just have that barrier there, and I think there's four per lap.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 How many people eat shit jumping over that barrier?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:19 Where'd she go?

Narrator 1:00:21 She's in front, I think.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:22 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Look at her.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 Hustle.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:24 Oh, I know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 Look at them legs, damn.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Got some length.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:27 She can... So anyway, so she's got nine minutes of pain. And I was asking her about, 'cause there's always a decision, like I watched her watch, uh, run this mile race, and she was kind of in back with about a lap to go. And there's always that decision like-... do I wanna go now and have it hurt really bad or just kinda, "Ah, it wasn't my day"? Like, how do you decide to, to deal with that pain? And so I was- that's what I was asking her about, 'cause that's what fascinates me.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 And what'd she say? She's, so there she did it in 9:19, so she's got it down to 9:02.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:03 Yeah. She's down, 9:02 is her best now.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 God, damn.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:06 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 Look at all, all those ladies are beaten down-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 ... down at the end of that. That-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:10 Oh, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 ... that looks so exhausting.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:11 ... so painful. Yeah, so she's from this little town, Crested Butte in Colorado, and that's where I went and ran with her and it's, um, that's 10,000, 9,000 feet.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 What was her, um, her answer to that?

Cameron Hanes 1:01:24 To-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 To like-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:25 ... the pain?

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 ... how deciding.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:26 She's just so, she, like, her, her brain is so focused in on that time, that nine minutes, where it's just like... And so it's just, she knows that if she pushes now, it's only gonna last this amount of time, you know? It's just, this is what she's gotta do. This is wh- how it works. She's been doing it her whole life. And so it was just push through, so like if, uh, she's so regimented on time from doing track her whole life, she'll like say, "Well can you meet me at, um, 10:00? And then we can get coffee and s- till about 10:20, and then we'll go. We should be able to get to the mountain by about 10:30, and then we can run and we should be done." I mean, like, everything is like so regimented because her brain works like that, so when she thinks about that pain, I think she just knows that it's gonna be this certain amount of time and then it's gonna be over, and this is what she does. So, it's, it's different than, say, a Courtney who's not gonna, it won't be as intense 'cause you don't with sprinting when you're exhausted, it just hurts.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:30 There, it's so easy to be like... That's what I was asking her about, because when I watched her run the mile, that's not her event. Her event is 3,000 meters-

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:39 ... which i- which is more than a mile. So I said, "You could easily said, 'Well this isn't my event,'" um, you know, you've made that decision whether to go and pass all these other girls and win or just be like, "This wasn't my night, this isn't my event," whatever, and just a little bit less.

Narrator 1:02:57 This is where she takes the lead just as you're talking, so you can see it.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:59 Oh. Just a, so this decision on should I go or should I stay right here where it's comfortable, this feels good. I mean, it's still hard, it's still an effort, but it's not the pain like going. So when you make the-

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 You can see her go.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:13 Right, when you make this deci- oh, she o- almost went right there but didn't. See that? So when you make that decision, oh, this is, I think this is world championships.

Narrator 1:03:24 Yeah, this was that race we just watched but this is the full race.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:27 No.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 So you hang back knowing-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:28 No, this, this isn't-

Narrator 1:03:29 That's what it said.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:29 No, I'm-

Narrator 1:03:29 Oh, no it doesn't.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:30 No, no.

Narrator 1:03:30 I'm sorry, it jumped to 2014.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:31 Th- that was 2014, this is tw- oh no, so watch this. She passes right here, this is the world championships, going over this water, that girl in the middle didn't go over good, Emma did.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 Ooh.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:42 And right here so she's turning it on, but now it's, you know, now the finish line is there. But see how controlled and like fluid she is? And this is so fast.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 God, damn. And so she went on that crazy run with you and Courtney as well?

Cameron Hanes 1:03:57 No. No, no, no, they're-

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 What was she doing?

Cameron Hanes 1:03:59 ... they're two different athletes. Um, no.

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 She didn't run that, like she was sleeping up there with you guys, right?

Cameron Hanes 1:04:05 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 Didn't she crash?

Cameron Hanes 1:04:06 No, that was Maggie.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 Oh, Maggie.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 And she's-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:08 She's an ultra, this is Emma Coburn.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Emma.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:11 Emma.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Emma, Maggie.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:11 Emma.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Those are such white girl names.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 I just conflate 'em all together in my head.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:15 Yeah, no, Emma lives in Crested Butte so I went, I met Courtney in Leadville and that's, um, we ran, uh, Mount Sherman, which is 14,000 feet. So I met her at 4:00 in the afternoon, Courtney and her husband, Kevin. And we did, uh, this big k- 11-mile loop and we did a 14,000-foot peak and then I stayed there, um, and a- at their house and then the next morning I got up and drove and met Emma in Crested Butte, which is another small town in Colorado and it's high altitude and that's where, that's where Emma grew up and her parents live. And so I met her there the next day and we ran, I don't know, it was shorter distance but she runs so much faster, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 Mm.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:02 Five miles or whatever. But for me, running five miles at 10,000 feet with her at that pace, it's like, I mean...

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 She's got some length too.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:11 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 How tall is she?

Cameron Hanes 1:05:13 Uh, I would say 5'7".

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 But her long- her legs are so long.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:17 Yeah. Yeah. And ru-

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 When she's running, she's, she's got that crazy long stride.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:21 Yeah. And running, she's run trails there at 10,000 feet or 9,000 feet and it's just like, that training and to be, to go over those barriers you have to be athletic.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:34 Like, uh...

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 It's a different explosive move.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:35 She's more athletic than say the girls from Kenya.

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:39 They're smaller. They, but they live, Kenya's high elevation too so but if Emma lives at the same elevation, has the same talent, um...

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Fastest mile ever run on Colorado soil running 4:32.7

Cameron Hanes 1:05:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 Damn, Emma.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:54 That's, that's the, that's the one I, that's, that's the one I watched.

Joe Rogan 1:05:58 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:58 That's where I said she was in-

Narrator 1:06:01 That was 7:00.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:01 Yeah she was in, at the back and then I said that decision you made to turn it on...

Narrator 1:06:08 Right here.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:08 No, that's not it.

Narrator 1:06:08 Oh no, this was just the video of her running the fastest mile so...

Cameron Hanes 1:06:11 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Just a slow motion version of it?

Narrator 1:06:15 800 feet.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:15 Oh yeah, I think this, yeah this was a couple years ago. They, she just, she just broke that outside.

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 Oh, so this is the indoor version of it?

Narrator 1:06:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 And then she broke it outside?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:23 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I just was interested in how, how that decision is made.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Now what, when you talked to her about her training, how much of her training is just running and how much of her training is like strength and conditioning? Does she do plyometrics?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 Does she, 'cause she's gotta not just run, she's gotta jump over things.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:39 Yeah. She, she runs every day usually. I think she runs about 70 or 80 miles a week when she's training. And so it'll be about, you know, 10 miles a day split up a couple times, and then she'll lift I believe three times a week, and so we lifted together too and it's just, you know, um...... yeah, she, I mean, she's, she's strong. Definitely strong.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 Oh, you have to be.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 You could see it in her legs, like in the fact that she's able to get over those hurdles while she's in the middle of this crazy run.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 Hoo.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:07 Well, a f- a 4:30 mile, fast.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 There's something also so crazy about your goal in life, like what you do. The thing that you concentrate on the most is your physical body.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Like, you're banking on this... you're banking on your tissue.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:23 Who? Just humans, or-

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Any human that does that.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:25 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 Whether you're a fighter or a baseball player-

Cameron Hanes 1:07:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 ... or a runner, there's something crazy about banking on your body, you know? Like, I always l- when I look at professional athletes in particular, I'm always like, "Ooh." Like, boy, anything can go wrong.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Like, and then it takes forever to fix.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 It's not like you, you blow out a tire. You go to the car shop and, you, you know, you go to the tire place, you get a new tire.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:45 Yeah. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 You blow out a knee.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:47 That's been the only secret to any success I've had is that longevity.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:52 Because there's a lot of people who've been better than me for a short span. But if you can just keep doing it-

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 Keep grinding.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:58 ... keep grinding, keep hammering.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:08:01 I don't care what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:08:02 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:02 You're gonna get good.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 Yeah, that is the case. What, how do you, how do you avoid injuries? Because you train so much.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:09 Mm. I don't... I mean, I get massage and, um-

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 You do those NormaTec boots?

Cameron Hanes 1:08:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 Still doing that?

Cameron Hanes 1:08:16 I got those, yeah. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 I sent you those, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:18 You s- you sent those to me, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 Those things are the shit.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:20 Yeah, the, uh, Hypervolt, the hammer-

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:23 ... with the ball on it that, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 Massage?

Cameron Hanes 1:08:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:26 Do that with, uh, Eric comes over about three times a week. You know, you trained with Eric too.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:32 And goes through, breaks down my hamstrings and calves and, and, uh, hips es- especially so, um-

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 Dude, I had a lady that was giving me a massage-

Cameron Hanes 1:08:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 ... and, uh, I had a, a Theragun and, uh, I wound up just having her just use the Theragun. Like, she was g- giving me a massage and it was great and everything, but there was this like one spot in my back.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:50 And I was like, "Just try this for a second." She's go-

Cameron Hanes 1:08:52 And that worked?

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Psh, yeah, man.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Like half the massage session was just her jackhammering me. Brbrbrbrbrbr, just-

Cameron Hanes 1:08:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 ... working me with that and it was more effective than anything because you could do something with those things where you can push all-

Cameron Hanes 1:09:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 ... the weight in, like a massage, but it's doing something that-

Cameron Hanes 1:09:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 ... you're not gonna be able to do with your hands.

Cameron Hanes 1:09:08 Right. There, there, there's this, uh, girl who does my massage, her name's Erin. She is so amazing. I mean, I can say something that's bothering me. She can go, like feel my leg or go right to it and just feel it.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Mm. She just knows where the knots are.

Cameron Hanes 1:09:23 Yeah, and then she'll do something else on some other side