Joe Rogan Experience #1542 - Cameron Hanes

1. 0:01 – 2:45

   Settling into the new studio + correcting the Portland wildfire claim

   1. NANarrator0:01

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Hello, Cam Hanes.

   3. CHCameron Hanes0:14

      'Sup?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What's going on, buddy? Good to see you.

   5. CHCameron Hanes0:16

      Oh, man. It's good to be here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Yeah.

   7. CHCameron Hanes0:17

      In this spaceship. Look at this.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Y- it's weird, right?

   9. CHCameron Hanes0:20

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       It's very p- uh, polarizing. People love it or hate it. A lot of people hate it.

   11. CHCameron Hanes0:25

       Oh, really?

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Yeah.

   13. CHCameron Hanes0:26

       I think it's cool.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       I like it.

   15. CHCameron Hanes0:27

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       I don't love it.

   17. CHCameron Hanes0:29

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's interesting. It's, uh ... We did it really quickly. I mean, we, we decided to move here. Within six weeks-

   19. CHCameron Hanes0:36

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       ... we were here. Um, I said this on the, uh, video on my Instagram, but I should probably say it again. You live up there in Oregon.

   21. CHCameron Hanes0:42

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       And I, I said something incorrect. I said about, uh, there was a guy who got ... I know there was one guy who got arrested for lighting fires.

   23. CHCameron Hanes0:48

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       And I thought ... I'd read some other shit about activists getting arrested for lighting fires, or antifa people.

   25. CHCameron Hanes0:54

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Shouldn't even call them activists. What do you call them? Crazy people.

   27. CHCameron Hanes0:57

       Idiots.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Morons.

   29. CHCameron Hanes0:59

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       But it's not true. So, sorry if you-
2. 2:45 – 4:45

   Portland unrest, anger, COVID shutdowns, and conspiracy narratives

   1. CHCameron Hanes2:45

      Yeah, it's, it's ... You know, people, when they find out, "Oh, you're from Oregon, so what do you think of all ..." You know? It's just ... It's kind of embarrassing to, to ... Just because I understand people have an opinion, and they want change, and they ... You know, maybe it's, maybe some of it is valid. But I don't agree with 100 nights of burning, or however many nights it's been of just burning and ruining a city. I don't, I don't understand how that ... I mean, eventually, maybe one night, have a protest, do whatever, get your message out, talk to people. But just destruction? I don't get that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      I think it's exactly what we were just saying, that you get enough people that join onto a movement, and the, the movement has no, like, directive or leaders. They're just there showing up.

   3. CHCameron Hanes3:31

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:32

      And you're gonna get morons that do things like light books on fire and throw them into the lobby, like doing all the things that they were doing-

   5. CHCameron Hanes3:37

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:37

      ... trying to break into the federal building. It's just, people are nuts, man. You get ... And people are ... They're ... Everyone's ... So many angry people right now, too.

   7. CHCameron Hanes3:45

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      That's an- also part of the problem.

   9. CHCameron Hanes3:47

      It's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       So many people are angry.

   11. CHCameron Hanes3:48

       It's a crazy time.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       And so many people are out of work because there's ... Of COVID, because everything shut down, so people are furious because of that. You know, they don't know what to do. It's just, it's one of those things where it- it d- it d- it doesn't, doesn't seem like there's a solution on the horizon for a lot of people.

   13. CHCameron Hanes4:05

       No.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:05

       And so then they're like, "We gotta burn this system down. Fuck the system." And it's like-

   15. CHCameron Hanes4:08

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:09

       Whew.

   17. CHCameron Hanes4:10

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       But Portland-

   19. CHCameron Hanes4:10

       That's rough.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       ... is a fun place. I love going up there.

   21. CHCameron Hanes4:12

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       I've always loved Portland.

   23. CHCameron Hanes4:13

       Well, I'm, I'm proud to be from Oregon. I mean, Oregon is a great state. Um, this? I don't know. It's really hard to support just destruction.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Yeah.

   25. CHCameron Hanes4:23

       And I don't know.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:24

       It's just, it doesn't seem like it's helping anything, you know? And then, you know, all the conspiracy theories. "Oh, it's the fucking ... You know, they're, they're trying to bring down democracy. It's Russia and China involved, and oh, George Soros is funding it." Like, there's a-

   27. CHCameron Hanes4:37

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       ... million different versions of the conspiracy after a while. There's so much chaos in the streets. You know? It's, uh, it's a weird time.

3. 4:45 – 8:22

   “The elites,” politics, and power networks (Bilderberg to Epstein)

   1. CHCameron Hanes4:45

      Yeah. I mean, Eddie Bravo was right about a lot of stuff.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:48

      Alex Jones was right about a lot of stuff.

   3. CHCameron Hanes4:50

      Right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:51

      Yeah.

   5. CHCameron Hanes4:51

      You know, it's, it's, uh ... It is crazy, because you start ... And I've even texted you about this, about wondering about ... You know, people would always say, "Well, do the elites run the country? And they're controlling this, and media, and this and that." And then I ... Then you start wondering or thinking or seeing and, and you see all this, and it's like, maybe that's true. Maybe the elites have been controlling everything, and they're still trying to with this COVID and the fear and everything they're doing, just ... They can control people with fear, and that's what's happening.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:20

      I get super suspicious when people use that term, "the elites."

   7. CHCameron Hanes5:23

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:23

      I'm like, "How do you get in that group?"

   9. CHCameron Hanes5:25

      (laughs) Like, I don't even know what that is.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Is there a meeting?

   11. CHCameron Hanes5:28

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:28

       What does, what does, what does the elites ... What does that mean?

   13. CHCameron Hanes5:30

       I don't like them. I, I know that. That's a-

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       Yeah.

   15. CHCameron Hanes5:32

       I know enough about it, but ...

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       I don't know if they're real. I mean, that's ... There has to be, right? There ha- there is a Bilderberger meeting, right?

   17. CHCameron Hanes5:39

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:39

       Where the Bilderberg Group, they get together, and they meet up.

   19. CHCameron Hanes5:42

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       But what do they do?

   21. CHCameron Hanes5:45

       I don't know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       You know, maybe they just talk about interest rates.

   23. CHCameron Hanes5:47

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       (laughs)

   25. CHCameron Hanes5:48

       (laughs) Yeah. Well, we were talking about this in ... I would probably ... I'm a bow hunter, all right? So I d- I don't like the, the politics and trying to explain all this, but-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:58

       You stay in your lane.

   27. CHCameron Hanes5:59

       ... I try to stay in my lane, but I do have thoughts on other things. And we were talking about, like, e- if you l- even look at the movie 300 and Gladiator, like, the old time, the, the weird ... They would say boy lovers and, you know, it's like these politicians. It's-... like a toned down version of that still. It's like, they're so po- uh, politicians... I don't know, that's why Trump got elected. They were so, people were so sick of politi- quote, "politicians," but there still is that, that influence and that, them controlling, and them just a, so much different than the people, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       Yeah. Well, I think that's how you become successful as a politician. You have to be a politician.

   29. CHCameron Hanes6:39

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:39

       You have to be, like, deeply embedded. And again, this is just guessing.
4. 8:22 – 11:56

   Trump, Biden, and the “fake news” era—then a Jared Kushner detour

   1. CHCameron Hanes8:22

      So how, how does, uh, you, a self-proclaimed moron-

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:25

      Yeah.

   3. CHCameron Hanes8:25

      ... have the president of the United States-

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:28

      Well, he's clearly a moron too. That's the only, the only thing (laughs) that makes sense.

   5. CHCameron Hanes8:30

      ... tweeting about you-

   6. NANarrator8:32

      (laughs)

   7. CHCameron Hanes8:32

      ... mentioning you. When, when do, oh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:34

      See-

   9. CHCameron Hanes8:34

      ... actually, when does him and Biden get here?

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:36

       No, it's not gonna happen.

   11. CHCameron Hanes8:37

       For the podcast?

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       See-

   13. CHCameron Hanes8:38

       What?

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       ... Joe Biden's the smart one. He's like, "Well, that guy's a moron. I'm not going on his podcast." But Trump-

   15. CHCameron Hanes8:41

       Yeah, if he's the smart one, we got-

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       (laughs)

   17. CHCameron Hanes8:43

       ... we got problems.

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       Trump is like, "That makes sense to me. I'm in." Well, Trump is like, I mean, he's obviously deeply, again, way, way out of my lane-

   19. CHCameron Hanes8:51

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:51

       ... just talking nonsense, but he's obviously-

   21. CHCameron Hanes8:54

       Nobody's listening.

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       ... connected to business. He's a huge businessman.

   23. CHCameron Hanes8:57

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       Huge and successful businessman.

   25. CHCameron Hanes8:58

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       But not a politician in any way-

   27. CHCameron Hanes9:01

       Which is good.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:01

       ... other than becoming president.

   29. CHCameron Hanes9:03

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:03

       Which is fucking bananas.
5. 11:56 – 14:01

   Escaping politics: elk hunting as a mental reset (and Colorado’s wild swings)

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      I just wish there was something going on that I was r- get, really excited about.

   2. CHCameron Hanes11:59

      Like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:59

      Like, this is good.

   4. CHCameron Hanes12:00

      Like elk hunting.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:01

      Yes. Oh, elk hunting.

   6. CHCameron Hanes12:02

      See?

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:02

      We're doing that soon.

   8. CHCameron Hanes12:03

      I know. I know. That's the-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:05

      We're days away.

   10. CHCameron Hanes12:06

       That's the... And the thing about it, so I was just in Colorado. No reception, you versus the animals, uh, reading the country, reading the wind.... that's, I mean, that's life. That's ... None of this BS.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:19

       Yeah. That, well, that's the beautiful thing about the woods as a reset, is that when you're out there and quiet, you realize, "Oh, none of these animals out here give a fuck about me."

   12. CHCameron Hanes12:30

       No.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       They don't know who I am. They don't know what, what is happening in the world. They're not aware of Kamala Harris and-

   14. CHCameron Hanes12:37

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       ... Joe Biden or-

   16. CHCameron Hanes12:39

       No. No.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       ... Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump. They don't know nothing.

   18. CHCameron Hanes12:42

       No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       They're just out there trying to eat grass and not get eaten.

   20. CHCameron Hanes12:44

       They're ... And breed.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       Yeah. And, and, you know-

   22. CHCameron Hanes12:47

       And, and do their thing.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       ... John, when John was there last w- year, he was like 18 yards away from a mountain lion.

   24. CHCameron Hanes12:51

       John? Oh, Dudley.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       Dudley, yeah.

   26. CHCameron Hanes12:53

       Yeah, yeah. W- well, I saw t- um, we saw, I think, when I was there, I saw one, but the guys hunting saw two during the day, mountain lions, and just out doin' it because the snow came. The weird snowstorm. It went from 90 degrees one day to 20 degrees the next day.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:10

       How does that happen?

   28. CHCameron Hanes13:11

       I don't know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       Jared Kushner. That's how.

   30. CHCameron Hanes13:13

       (laughs) Yeah.
6. 14:01 – 19:08

   Predator-prey reality: bears on calves, lion kills, and respecting wild death

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:01

      Yeah, um, that video that you posted of the bear eating the elk calf.

   2. CHCameron Hanes14:04

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:04

      That's, uh, that's something that people need to see.

   4. CHCameron Hanes14:08

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      Need to see the ... It's like people who love wild animals, I, I, I understand it. Like, but there's th- there's a real cruelty to the way they die in the wild.

   6. CHCameron Hanes14:18

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:18

      That if people get upset about hunters, like, you kinda ... I understand that you wouldn't want a beautiful animal to die. I do understand that.

   8. CHCameron Hanes14:26

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:26

      But you kinda need to know that they're gonna die no matter what happens, and this is the way they usually die.

   10. CHCameron Hanes14:31

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:32

       And it's a rough way to go.

   12. CHCameron Hanes14:33

       You know-

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:34

       Bear, bears eating animals like that, it's, it's so hard to watch too because the bears don't really kill 'em first.

   14. CHCameron Hanes14:40

       No. And, and the bear ... This year was a hard year for the elk calves because ... So the calves were, were pregnant, dro- we call it dropping the calf, so they were giving birth. And the bear were just following knowing that the calves are gonna be dropped. They'll be on the ground. They can't stand up. And they could just kill them pretty quick. And so, they were finding like two cal- two dead elk calves a day every day. And this was a hard year specifically because it was dry in Southern Colorado, so the grass didn't grow. Normally, the, the grass would be taller. There'd be more cover. Elk calves could hide better. They were just laying out in the open. And the bears were like, "Oh, okay. There you are. Go-"

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:21

       Oh, wow.

   16. CHCameron Hanes15:22

       "... kill 'em and start eating 'em." And it was just ... (exhales) They, they hammered 'em this year. I mean, normally, I talk to the game warden there, um, when I was on that hunt, great guy, legend. Um, Bob's his name, and, um, he's been there for many years. And, uh, he said that normally in that area, there's about, I think, 23 elk calves survive a year out of 100. And this year it was down in the teens because of the, the grass was just-

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       Hmm.

   18. CHCameron Hanes15:53

       They couldn't hide. So it's-

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       So, it's gonna be a rough year in the future.

   20. CHCameron Hanes15:56

       It's tough to survive anyway.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       Yeah.

   22. CHCameron Hanes15:57

       I mean, 23 out of 100 is, isn't, uh, you know, I ... Don't quote me on these numbers, but it was just ... The point is, I wanna make, it was less this year because there wasn't the cover.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       Yeah. It's a, it's a rough world, man. The world that they live in, you know?

   24. CHCameron Hanes16:09

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       When we were there with Johnny Hamilton and he was telling us that story, I, I've told this story before on the podcast about how they were tracking a cat. And, uh, they, they found, uh, the cat's tracks and then elk tracks, and then no more cat tracks.

   26. CHCameron Hanes16:22

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       And then they found the elk about 100 yards later. The cat had jumped on the elk's back-

   28. CHCameron Hanes16:26

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       ... and taken out a big bull elk.

   30. CHCameron Hanes16:29

       Yeah.
7. 19:08 – 28:22

   Wolf reintroduction in Colorado: biology, ranching, and “management” politics

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:08

      Uh, they're trying to introduce the, uh, reintroduce wolves to Colorado.

   2. CHCameron Hanes19:12

      Oh God. Don't, that's-

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:13

      You know about all that?

   4. CHCameron Hanes19:14

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:14

      Yeah.

   6. CHCameron Hanes19:14

      That's ridiculous. No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:15

      You think that's ridiculous?

   8. CHCameron Hanes19:17

      Yeah, no.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:17

      I w- I'd like to have a biologist s- sit down and talk t- Like, a biologist who's pro-reintroduction of wolves sit down with someone like you.

   10. CHCameron Hanes19:26

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:27

       And, and have, like, a conversation about it.

   12. CHCameron Hanes19:29

       Yeah, here's the problem. Here's what they do. They say, it all sounds good, "Hey, let's... Wolves are a big part of the whatever, um, let's get 'em back in where they used to be. Let's make..." 'Cause y- even you said, you like see- knowing there's grizzly bear out there.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       Yeah.

   14. CHCameron Hanes19:44

       And you don't, obviously you don't wanna be attacked, but just knowing they're there and maybe seeing 'em and, and wolves are an amazing animal. The problem is they make, they make all these, um, uh, I don't know, I don't wanna say promises, but they sell it a certain way, like, "We're gonna have this many packs of wolves and they'll, they'll breed this, this often. And then so we'll have a carrying capacity of this many wolves." Well, so once the wolves are there, then it's, "Oh no, we can't kill wolves," 'cause they, they sell it like they're gonna manage 'em, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       Right.

   16. CHCameron Hanes20:16

       "'Cause we're gonna keep this many." But then it's like once they're there, they're like, "Oh no, we can't hunt wolves."

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:22

       I'm just-

   18. CHCameron Hanes20:22

       I was like, "What? No, I thought you were gonna, I thought we were gonna manage 'em." Well, so that, then all, everything goes back to noth- And then you got all these protests with all these pro-wolf advocates saying, "We can't hunt wolves," so they're there, they're breeding over and over and over. You got all these wolves running around killing 'cause that's what they do, and we can't hunt 'em because now we've backtracked.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:40

       Well, it, it is one of those things where they promise that y- y- like they have a number. Like, "If we have 2,000 wolves in this particular area, then we'll open it up to management."

   20. CHCameron Hanes20:51

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:51

       And what management e- means is they'll have tags and they'll, uh, put tags available for hunters and they can go and hunt wolves. People that hear that, they're like, "Wait, why would you..." Like, they hear, "You don't eat wolves. Why would you hunt wolves?"

   22. CHCameron Hanes21:03

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:03

       "Wolves are beautiful. Wolves are like dogs."

   24. CHCameron Hanes21:06

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:06

       But I understand that and I'm on that perspec- I get that perspective, makes a lot of sense to me, but people need to know that there's a reason why they wiped 'em out in the first place.

   26. CHCameron Hanes21:15

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       Like, they, they were destroying cattle and they were i- i- I understand too, like, "Hey, they were here first." I get that.

   28. CHCameron Hanes21:22

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:22

       I get that perspective. But if you eat meat and you like having cattle, these ranchers, it's a struggle as a rancher as it is.

   30. CHCameron Hanes21:30

       Yeah.
8. 28:22 – 35:20

   Wolf encounters and the Under Armour ‘wolf’ commercial story

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:22

      Yeah. Um, I remember that, uh, Under Armor commercial that you did-

   2. CHCameron Hanes28:25

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:26

      ... where, uh, they had a wolf in the-

   4. CHCameron Hanes28:28

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:28

      ... commercial with you.

   6. CHCameron Hanes28:28

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:29

      And you said (laughs) , you said th- they could only get the wolf to growl one time 'cause after that it was over, like you, you could not control the wolf.

   8. CHCameron Hanes28:36

      No. Yeah, we, we, um, to make it growl, to make it mad, we gave him meat and then took it away. So it was very upset it didn't get the meat. But once it got in that, 'cause it was obviously a, a tame wolf or a, it'd been in movies-

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:52

      Trained.

   10. CHCameron Hanes28:52

       ... trained wolf. Um, but once you introduce meat and it got in that mindset of, of meat, yeah, then that wa- that was gonna be it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:59

       Yeah, this is the, the commercial. It's an awesome commercial. How long ago was this commercial?

   12. CHCameron Hanes29:04

       Um, I'm not sure.

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:07

       Quite a few years ago, right?

   14. CHCameron Hanes29:08

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:08

       Like four or five at least, right?

   16. CHCameron Hanes29:11

       What does it say?

   17. GIGuest (unidentified brief interjection)29:11

       2013.

   18. CHCameron Hanes29:11

       2013, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:11

       Damn, seven years ago.

   20. CHCameron Hanes29:13

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:14

       It's a dope commercial.

   22. CHCameron Hanes29:15

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:15

       And-

   24. CHCameron Hanes29:15

       It's cool. The wolf was awesome. I mean, wolves are amazing.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       How big was it?

   26. CHCameron Hanes29:20

       It was tall. I mean, I'd, I'd say it's probably 120, 130 pounds, I guess. But they're a lot taller than what you, like compared to a dog, a normal dog.

   27. JRJoe Rogan29:34

       How come they don't do more of these commercials?

   28. CHCameron Hanes29:36

       I don't know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:37

       So the whole idea is that you and the wolf are in competition and that you won out.

   30. CHCameron Hanes29:41

       Yeah. See, I got the bowl and it's mad.
9. 35:20 – 45:02

   Why Cameron trains so hard for bowhunting: fatigue, decisions, and shot pressure

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:20

      ... your, uh, your source of food. It's also what you train for, which when I first met you, um, and I was like, "Why does this guy train so hard? Like, what is he doing?"

   2. CHCameron Hanes35:29

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:29

      And then you're like, "Oh, I, I train for, uh, bow hunting." I'm like, "What?"

   4. CHCameron Hanes35:33

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:33

      Like what is happening when you bow hunt?

   6. CHCameron Hanes35:35

      (laughs) Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:36

      Like wh- are you in a race? Like-

   8. CHCameron Hanes35:37

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:37

      ... what's going on? And then the first time you took me I was like, "Oh."

   10. CHCameron Hanes35:40

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:40

       "Oh, okay, I get it." Fuck, you have to be in like really crazy shape-

   12. CHCameron Hanes35:44

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:44

       ... to pull this off.

   14. CHCameron Hanes35:46

       Well, you don't, you don't have to, but here, what I know is like when hunting, and you know how it is now, you've done it for years, but in the mountains, um, there's so many deci- yeah, you can get up and down the mountains, you can get, uh, around elk, but there's so many decisions that you have to make and pr- it's, it's related on performance, so the higher level of performance, the better decisions you're gonna make. The, I mean, like on these last hunts, I, I pretty much have an arrow nocked, I've, I killed two bulls this year and a buck and a bear, and I've had an arrow nocked pretty much all day, pretty m- ready to go, and that's, that can be fatiguing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan36:24

       Yeah.

   16. CHCameron Hanes36:24

       Just this walking around slowly is tiring. So when you're at a heightened level for-

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:33

       ... eight hours.

   18. CHCameron Hanes36:34

       Or more. 15 hours on some days. And you're covering distance and, and it's like, I wanna be ready at all times for anything that happens. So I have an arrow nocked and I am ready. So, I ... To do that, it's exhausting. If I, if I didn't train the way I do, I couldn't do that, so who knows what that would result in as far as success? But people don't realize that just ... I mean, you know what it's like when you're hunting. It's like almost, you know, yoga poses all day essentially I've heard people describe it as.

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:06

       Yeah.

   20. CHCameron Hanes37:07

       And, uh, 'cause you're going so slow and so controlled and every footstep is, is controlled and, and s- ... And, uh, um-

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:14

       Just freezing. Like if you're in a situation and an elk sees you and you have to freeze-

   22. CHCameron Hanes37:18

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:18

       ... and you're holding your bow in your hand-

   24. CHCameron Hanes37:20

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       ... you don't realize how damn heavy that thing is.

   26. CHCameron Hanes37:22

       And they don't have anywhere to go.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:24

       And they'll just stand there.

   28. CHCameron Hanes37:25

       They'll ... They have-

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:25

       Just stand there.

   30. CHCameron Hanes37:26

       ... nothing to do-
10. 45:02 – 46:45

    Food, recovery, and ‘how are you not injured?’ (NormaTec, massage, CBD)

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:02

       And I gotta think that a guy like you who does ultra-marathons and all, all this crazy working out, there has to be something to what you're eating. There has to be.

    2. CHCameron Hanes45:13

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       The fact that you're eating all this wild game is that your diet is- like, how much of your diet's meat?

    4. CHCameron Hanes45:20

       Oh, probably I would say 40%.

    5. JRJoe Rogan45:23

       Just 40?

    6. CHCameron Hanes45:23

       Yeah, 40 to 50.

    7. JRJoe Rogan45:25

       What's the rest of it?

    8. CHCameron Hanes45:26

       Uh, carbs (laughs) like potatoes and rice and, uh, fruits and vegetables.

    9. JRJoe Rogan45:32

       Just think about how much wild game you consume and how much- how protein-rich that is and how, like, that dark red meat that you get from the animals.

    10. CHCameron Hanes45:42

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan45:42

        Like, how, how good that is for you.

    12. CHCameron Hanes45:43

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan45:43

        That has to have some sort of a- an effect on your, your physical abilities. Because one of the things that people always marvel at with you is, like, "How the fuck does this guy do so many things?"

    14. CHCameron Hanes45:53

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:54

        Like, how do you have the time to get up in the morning- I mean, there's been many times where you've run a marathon a day.

    16. CHCameron Hanes46:00

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:00

        I know people are hearing this, "Oh, this guy's full of shit."

    18. CHCameron Hanes46:02

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:02

        No, no, no, no.

    20. CHCameron Hanes46:03

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:03

        A marathon a day.

    22. CHCameron Hanes46:04

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:04

        You've run m- multiple marathons a day. You've done days where you got up at 3:00 in the morning, more than one day-

    24. CHCameron Hanes46:10

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:10

        ... where you ran a marathon and then went to work.

    26. CHCameron Hanes46:13

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:14

        Or you've run 18, 19 miles, went to work, and then finished the marathon off during your lunch break.

    28. CHCameron Hanes46:19

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:19

        And then you go lift weights, and then you shoot your bow or you shoot your bow and then you lift weights. And, like, it has to play a factor. I know there's just overall endurance and discipline and the fact that you've just always given yourself this hard workload-

    30. CHCameron Hanes46:34

        Mm-hmm.
11. 46:45 – 58:13

    Endurance outliers: Courtney Dauwalter, sleep deprivation, and the psychology of pain

    1. CHCameron Hanes46:45

       I would think. I mean, and I eat wild game every day, s- every single day. And I know that has to help me recover, um, but I, I think aside from that, I think we're- as humans, we're capable of so many amazing things. And it's like, I've- that's why the people who you've had on this podcast that I've, I've like, been obsessed with connecting with because they're humans just like we are, but they- Goggins, they do incredible- it's like how can the same specie of, of wha- whatever, so humans just like everybody else walking around here, do such amazing things? And I, I try t- I wanna connect- I always wanna connect with those people like Goggins, uh, Courtney Dauwalter, um, been running with Emma Coburn lately. She's a, um, Olympic steeplechaser. She won the bronze at the last Olympic. Pro- I'm thinking she's gonna win the gold at this Olympics this coming year. So, I try to think, well, how, how can they do that? They're the same specie as we all are. There must be something- Courtney's, Courtney's the toughest person I've ever been around. I've been around some tough people. But her mental toughness is, is unlike anything you've ever seen. And I-

    2. JRJoe Rogan48:00

       It's weird, too.

    3. CHCameron Hanes48:01

       I've said-

    4. JRJoe Rogan48:01

       'Cause she seems so nice and normal.

    5. CHCameron Hanes48:03

       She is, but she's- yeah, she's- you know, couldn't get more s- uh, uh, you couldn't find a more sweet person. But, um, I've said this before where a dog will run itself to death- that's- yeah, I took that picture right there.

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       What is this?

    7. CHCameron Hanes48:18

       So-

    8. JRJoe Rogan48:18

       It says, "We estimate I slept fewer than four hours during my 105 hours on the Colorado trail. It was a combination of one-minute trail naps and longer attempts in the RV, and sometimes they happened by accident during a group sunrise photo. Weekend at Bernie's-" Anywa- so she just passed out while she was doing this.

    9. CHCameron Hanes48:35

       Yeah, go-

    10. JRJoe Rogan48:36

        "Less than ideal overall sleep time, but during the later days, the coughing and the wheezing preventing me from being able to fall asleep."

    11. CHCameron Hanes48:42

        Yeah. So, that-

    12. JRJoe Rogan48:43

        Sleep game needs major wor... Ex- explain this whole thing-

    13. CHCameron Hanes48:45

        This-

    14. JRJoe Rogan48:45

        ... that she was trying to accomplish.

    15. CHCameron Hanes48:46

        Right. Go to that one Weekend at Bernie's o... Yeah. So, right here. So, we stopped with the sun coming up to take a picture and she'd been going for 105 hours, which I... What is that, over four days? And slept for four hours. So, we stopped to take a picture and she fell asleep. I mean, just passed out. But right after this picture, she's up running.

    16. JRJoe Rogan49:07

        (laughs)

    17. CHCameron Hanes49:08

        So, that pi... That other picture on the trail w... That I took with her and Maggie, um...

    18. JRJoe Rogan49:15

        D... Like, a lot of people will look at this and they'll, they'll say, "What kind of a human wants to do this?"

    19. CHCameron Hanes49:21

        This, this was a three-minute nap right here. So, it was gonna be three minutes or maybe six minutes, but something... Sun had just come up and in... Incidentally, I'd just seen a cup... Uh, a big group of bucks in the dark about two hours earlier, about, I think, 3:00 in the morning. This was probably about 5:00 in the morning. But I laid my pack on her legs there and my coats on her legs. She's the closest one. Maggie's is... The second one. Who, Maggie, in her own right, she won the, uh... It's called Big's Backyard Ultra where they run four miles every hour for as long as you can do it.

    20. JRJoe Rogan49:54

        (laughs)

    21. CHCameron Hanes49:54

        Get four miles done. And she won it last year. Courtney, the year before, was the first woman. Anyway, so these women are insane. But they took, uh, three-minute naps... Or a six-minute nap right here, then back up, and that's... Resets your body. I mean, it reset... It's like a Control-Alt-Delete. So, before this, she, Courtney, was, like, so exhausted from all this. Maggie would ask a question and she'd answer, barely audibly, two minutes later. And then, so it was, it was me, or Courtney, then me, then Maggie. And Maggie would say something to Courtney, nothing. Two minutes later, she'd like... I could barely hear it. She'd answer whatever Maggie said, 'cause her brain was like... They said her, her blood, her, her oxygen level and brain was at 70%, which that was because of the coughing and lung issues and the high altitude and the dust and everything. So, it just... Her brain wasn't working like it should.

    22. JRJoe Rogan50:54

        Let's explain what she was trying to do.

    23. CHCameron Hanes50:56

        Yeah, she was... Okay, she was trying to... The fastest known time to run the entire Colorado trail from Durango to Denver is eight days and something like two hours, I think. She wanted to beat that by a day. So, she was trying to run 490 miles from Durango to Denver with 90,000 feet of elevation gain total in seven days. And, uh, to do that, I mean, it's a gr... You can't... Sleep is... I don't know. I don't know what their perfect answer is. She, uh, she was about 22 hours, I think, at, at one point and ahead of the record.

    24. JRJoe Rogan51:41

        She's-

    25. CHCameron Hanes51:41

        But she ended up in the emergency room just because her, her... She pushed so hard. What I was gonna say is, animals will push-

    26. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        Look how s... Look how fucked up she looks.

    27. CHCameron Hanes51:52

        Yeah. She's like-

    28. JRJoe Rogan51:52

        She looks so tired.

    29. CHCameron Hanes51:53

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan51:54

        Look at her eyes.
12. 58:13 – 1:26:18

    Emma Coburn and the steeplechase: fast pain vs. long pain + training structure

    1. CHCameron Hanes58:13

       Right. Yeah, and it's, and I've, I've been t- I was talking to the, 'cause after my hunt in Colorado, I went and ran with Courtney. We did a 14,000-foot peak. And then I ran with Emma the next day. And two totally different athletes. Courtney's, you know, the, the eight, seven days crazy. Emma's the 3,000 meters. And I was talking to them both about pain, because Courtney's pain isn't as intense, but it's for a long ti- a week, you know, or days. Emma's pain, so for, she wants to break nine minutes in the steeplechase. She never has. 9:02 is, is her best, I believe. And, uh, she'll have to break nine minutes probably to win the gold medal.

    2. JRJoe Rogan58:57

       What's a steeplechase?

    3. CHCameron Hanes58:58

       That's 3,000 meters, and it has the barrier, like the water barrier. So you jump over, you jump over barriers, and then there's a water barrier too. Have you ever seen, seen them jump over-

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:08

       I don't think I've ever seen a steeplechase.

    5. CHCameron Hanes59:10

       L- l- look up Emma-

    6. JRJoe Rogan59:10

       Here it is. Is it right here?

    7. NANarrator59:12

       That's her jumping over.

    8. CHCameron Hanes59:12

       Yeah, that's her.

    9. JRJoe Rogan59:13

       Oh, wow.

    10. CHCameron Hanes59:13

        That's her.

    11. JRJoe Rogan59:13

        So you jump over water. Damn, look how much air she gets.

    12. CHCameron Hanes59:17

        Yeah, yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan59:18

        That's crazy.

    14. CHCameron Hanes59:19

        So, yeah, so that's her. So, it's like, so she's, she has nine minutes. And you, you can see her, like there's a good video of her winning the World Championships, Emma Coburn World Championship.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:30

        So the steeplechase thing, the water, you have to jump over the water? What if you land in the water?

    16. CHCameron Hanes59:35

        They, they land in the water.

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:36

        That's okay?

    18. CHCameron Hanes59:37

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan59:37

        Just slows you down?

    20. CHCameron Hanes59:39

        Um, they, they can't really clear that water, so they plan on, on running and landing in the water.

    21. JRJoe Rogan59:44

        What a weird thing-

    22. NANarrator59:45

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan59:45

        ... to have a puddle in your run.

    24. CHCameron Hanes59:47

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan59:47

        Isn't that weird?

    26. NANarrator59:47

        I'm gonna laugh at us, it's gonna be so weird.

    27. CHCameron Hanes59:47

        Yeah, so, so see, so that's-

    28. NANarrator59:50

        Every day, I think.

    29. CHCameron Hanes59:51

        Right. And she's, she's taller than like those, uh, um, the other girls.

    30. JRJoe Rogan59:58

        Oh, so she-

Episode duration: 2:50:02