Joe Rogan Experience #1570 - Willie D & Mike Judge

Mike Judge 0:02 (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Willy D and Mike Judge, together at last.

Willie D 0:16 (laughs)

Mike Judge 0:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:16 Good to see you, man.

Willie D 0:17 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 0:18 You're the first guy in the studio to bring his own headphones, the first guy ever in 1,500 shows.

Willie D 0:22 I- is that right?

Joe Rogan 0:23 Yeah.

Willie D 0:23 Oh, man. Well, you know that where there's a will, there's a way. (laughs)

Mike Judge 0:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:27 Well, they fit too. They're- they're-

Willie D 0:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:29 ... they're- they're unique.

Willie D 0:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 0:31 And, uh, Mike, you just happen to be rolling with Willy, so you're here today as well.

Mike Judge 0:34 Yes, thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 0:35 My pleasure, man. Um, I wanted to get m- get ahold of you and find the good spots in Austin anyway, man. You've been here for a long time, right?

Mike Judge 0:42 Yeah, since '94. And I'd come down here a lot before that. Lived in Dallas.

Joe Rogan 0:48 What's going on with Beavis and Butt-Head?

Mike Judge 0:51 Uh, it's, uh, it's coming back. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:53 It- it really is?

Mike Judge 0:54 Yeah. In fact-

Joe Rogan 0:55 Wow.

Mike Judge 0:55 ... that's why I'm gonna have to split in a little while for some Zoom meetings. But, uh, yeah, no, it really is. Yeah, we're doing a ... I think, uh, I think it's gonna be good. I'm excited about that.

Joe Rogan 1:04 Dude, I was a gigantic fan of Beavis and Butt-Head. Right around the time I started smoking pot-

Mike Judge 1:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09 ... was when I really got into Beavis and Butt-Head at the same time.

Mike Judge 1:13 Yeah, that- a lot of ... We had a lot of stoners that liked it. Also, a lot of people talking about it, like hat- watching it after you come home from a bar, that sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 1:22 Yeah, it was one of the silliest shows ever.

Mike Judge 1:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:24 It was ridiculous.

Mike Judge 1:25 Now everyone will be drinking at home and getting stoned. Well, you always get stoned at home, so...

Joe Rogan 1:30 (clears throat) And Willy-

Willie D 1:30 You'll be stoned everywhere, right?

Joe Rogan 1:31 I've been a fan of the Geto Boys-

Mike Judge 1:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:33 ... since the very beginning.

Willie D 1:34 Yes.

Mike Judge 1:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34 So when I- when I first met you in Houston ... I rarely geek out, but w- when I met you, I mean, I've ... Dude, when I used to deliver newspapers, I used to listen to Geto Boys while I was delivering newspapers.

Willie D 1:43 I didn't know you d- delivered newspapers.

Joe Rogan 1:45 Yeah.

Willie D 1:45 We got something in common. Man, we got something that's in common.

Joe Rogan 1:47 You did that too?

Willie D 1:48 Well, I delivered newspapers, and I also sold door-to-door subscriptions-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Oh.

Willie D 1:52 ... for the Houston Chronicle.

Joe Rogan 1:53 No kidding. Yeah.

Willie D 1:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55 I did, uh, the Boston Globe and the Boston Herald. When did you guys start? When did Geto Boys start?

Willie D 2:01 Uh, the incarnation that everybody know right now is m- myself, s- Scarface, and Bushwick, with Ready Red. We started in '89, but the group actually was formed in '87.

Joe Rogan 2:13 Wow. That's a d- man, 1980, 'cause you gotta think, like, when was Sugarhill Gang? That was '81?

Willie D 2:22 That's, like, '83.

Joe Rogan 2:23 '83.

Willie D 2:25 Yeah. I think it was.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Dude, you were there-

Willie D 2:26 No, no, no, no. More than a- l- less than that. Oh, no, no. Sugarhill Gang, '79.

Mike Judge 2:30 Yeah, that was-

Joe Rogan 2:30 Wow.

Mike Judge 2:31 ... I was in high school.

Willie D 2:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:33 '79.

Willie D 2:34 Yeah, that's right, '79.

Joe Rogan 2:35 So you were there in the earliest days of hip hop?

Willie D 2:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39 That's an amazing thing to be a part of, like when an art form emerges.

Mike Judge 2:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:46 You know, there's ... Like, how- how many people can say that they were there when an art form emerged?

Mike Judge 2:52 Yeah, as a fan-

Joe Rogan 2:53 Yeah.

Mike Judge 2:53 ... I was, uh, I, like ... 'Cause I was into blues, but that was all before I was born. And then, and then when this stuff was happening while we were alive, watching it, it was just really cool to see.

Joe Rogan 3:02 I was in, uh, Jamaica Plain. I was, uh, I guess I was in, like, seventh grade or something like that. And Jamaica Plain was a suburb of, uh, of, uh, Boston. And I was in school and some kid had a beatbox that he brought to school and he was playing Sugarhill Gang. I've n- I've never for- I'll never forget this. I was like, "Wow, that's different."

Willie D 3:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:22 And that was the beginning.

Willie D 3:24 Man, that Sugarhill Gang, man. I remember I used to play football for the, uh, for, uh, Hester House. It was a f- it's a, uh, community center in Fifth Ward, and I used to play for the Houston Cowboys. (laughs) Go figure.

Mike Judge 3:39 (laughs)

Willie D 3:39 Right? So we, we played in the, uh, Astrodome. That was a big deal, you know. That's what- what the, where the Houston Oilers played at. And so I remember being on the bus and the whole team singing that song. They played the song and everybody was singing it word for word. That's my greatest experience when I think about that song. Like, everybody knew every single word. I mean, you had to know the word, every single word to the song, s- uh, or else you wasn't cool. It's kinda like knowing every single word to, uh, Mo City Don Freestyle, you know, by Z-Ro f- in Houston. Like, if you don't know that song-

Joe Rogan 4:18 What song is that?

Willie D 4:19 ... you're not a, you're not a Houstonian.

Joe Rogan 4:20 I'm not aware of it.

Willie D 4:21 Yeah, it's- it's called ... Yeah, it's, uh, it's- it's a song by Z-Ro, uh, Z-Ro. He's done some collaborations with, uh, Geto Boys, but even he stands on his own. He's, uh, uh, huge throughout, you know, throughout the South mainly. Uh, the dude go platinum in the South by hisself, you know, just- just the South. Z-Ro, if you're not up on it, man, get up on it, man.

Joe Rogan 4:41 I'll have to get up on it after the podcast is over.

Willie D 4:44 Get up on it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:44 I will most likely get up on it. (laughs)

Willie D 4:46 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 But you were there, like, you were there when hip hop was also getting censored too. Remember those, the Tipper Gore days? Like, a lot of people don't remember.

Willie D 4:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:56 Al Gore's wife-

Willie D 4:57 Tipper Gore. I can't stand you, girl. Don't get your head knocked off like Daniel Pearl.

Joe Rogan 5:02 (laughs)

Mike Judge 5:02 (laughs)

Willie D 5:02 From what I hear on the streets, you a big old freak. What gives you credibility to be the moral police?

Joe Rogan 5:08 (laughs)

Willie D 5:08 Sharp as a crease, impetuous as the, as the Middle East. Sit on your ... What? What? Oh, okay. I'm ... Forget it.

Mike Judge 5:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:17 (laughs)

Willie D 5:17 Hey, but I- I had it, man. I had it for a moment. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:21 (laughs)

Mike Judge 5:21 (laughs)

Willie D 5:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:21 People forgot that Al Gore's wife was trying to censor hip hop.

Willie D 5:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Like, people ... You know, the ... A lot of times, people think of, like, the right wing as being the people that try to censor speech, but back then, it was Tipper Gore that was on this, uh, she was on this mission.

Mike Judge 5:36 Yeah.

Willie D 5:37 Uh, Parent ... What was it? Parents for Music something censorship.

Mike Judge 5:44 Yeah, there were several of the ... There was Morality and Media.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Mike Judge 5:48 They went after Beavis and Butt-Head too, but not like this.

Willie D 5:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:50 Well, then they went after 2 Live Crew. Like, that's when things got serious 'cause that act- that actually went to court.

Mike Judge 5:55 Yeah, that's right. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:55 That was crazy. Like, pe- people that don't remember, like, you- you know, there's- there's some people in this country that are-... on, they were on the front line of censorship and 2 Live Crew was one of the big ones.

Willie D 6:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:09 Like, they, they went to court in Florida, Broward County. And Broward County, they could... They have crazy laws in Florida, they, they put people in jail for all kinds of weird shit-

Willie D 6:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:18 ... and they just decided that that was obscene.

Willie D 6:20 Yeah. Yeah. They, they made that move on us-

Joe Rogan 6:25 Pull this, pull this forward a little bit so I can-

Willie D 6:27 Forward?

Joe Rogan 6:27 Yeah. Just so it's not on your neck there.

Willie D 6:29 Okay.

Joe Rogan 6:29 There you go.

Willie D 6:30 Yeah, so yeah, they tried to make that move on us and (sighs) we were defiant to the end, man. Like, I remember going to one city and, uh, (laughs) we're still on stage and they was like, "Yeah, uh, y'all can't play." 'Cause we, we had planned on going... Well, this was in Florida, I can't remember exactly what city it was, but we went there and our goal was to play no matter what. We was gonna s- rap our lyrics exactly as they were. And we get there and then they say, "Oh, uh, the city has changed their mind, you can't play at all." So they got us on that one.

Joe Rogan 7:11 So you had to shut down the show?

Willie D 7:12 Yeah, we, yeah, couldn't do it at all.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Wow. (sighs)

Willie D 7:15 I- I- I... The Geto Boys was, was the first group to have a manufacturer decline or to say that... Uh, you know, decline, uh, uh, the distribution of our music.

Joe Rogan 7:32 Really?

Willie D 7:32 We were the first group in music history where your- a manufacturer ha- said, "We're not gonna press."

Joe Rogan 7:38 Which album?

Willie D 7:39 That was the, uh, Geto Boys, uh, self-titled album.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Wow.

Willie D 7:44 Yeah, that was '92. That was the Rick Rubin remake. So we did the... It was the Grippin on That Other Level album, right? So it was like a remake of that with two extra songs that Rick Rubin, uh, produced. And the other songs were, like, songs that he, um, kind of just kind of remixed a little bit, but they had the same sound for the most... So, so sonically, they were pretty much the same, but there was two new songs added. So that's when we changed the name of the group to G-E-T-O, the, the spelling of the group.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Hmm.

Willie D 8:18 G-E-T-O from G-H-E-T-T-O. But yeah, you know, uh, the funny thing was that... Well, it wasn't funny at the time, but... Well, it still ain't funny. Um-

Joe Rogan 8:29 (laughs)

Willie D 8:29 (laughs) You know, the- these, this, uh, Geffen Records, David Geffen, he decided that he was not going to distribute our music, but he was cool with distributing Andrew Dice Clay-

Joe Rogan 8:45 Ah.

Willie D 8:45 ... and, and, and Guns N' Roses.

Joe Rogan 8:49 Ah.

Willie D 8:49 And, you know, you know what type of music these guys were doing at that time. We talking about 1990. You know? So, of course, I mean, we, we was like, "Yeah, man, this is, this is censorship and we know why." Wink, wink. You know? We know.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Yeah.

Willie D 9:06 You know? So, so we, we hi- That's when we came with the We Can't Be Stopped album.

Joe Rogan 9:14 That album cover.

Willie D 9:15 Yeah.

Mike Judge 9:16 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Jesus Christ. When you see Bushwick Bill with a, a patch over his eye-

Willie D 9:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:21 ... in the hospital gurney and you guys are rolling with him behind and that's the album cover. Look at that.

Willie D 9:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:26 I mean, come on.

Mike Judge 9:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:28 That is classic.

Willie D 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:31 That is a classic album cover.

Willie D 9:34 We can't be stopped.

Joe Rogan 9:35 (sighs) And Bushwick's on the old school cell phone. (laughs)

Willie D 9:39 Yeah.

Mike Judge 9:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:40 The brick.

Willie D 9:40 And that's, and that's done... That was done, like, totally spontaneously, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:46 Wow.

Willie D 9:46 Like, we didn't... We... It was totally unplanned, 'cause we had finished the album and then Bushwick gets shot. And this would ha- this would happen a lot with B- Bill. Like, Bill could get a job done and, like, if he had something major to do, he'd get it done. But then after he get it done, you know, it's just something starts going on, some stuff just starts happening.

Joe Rogan 10:10 (sighs)

Willie D 10:10 So we had finished the album and, you know, get a call Bill got shot. Go up to the hospital, immediately in my mind... This is my cowboy Western days, me- mind you.

Mike Judge 10:22 (laughs)

Willie D 10:23 I'm thinking revenge, like, "I don't care who shot him, who shot... Who..." You know? Like, "Let's get him." So I get to the hospital, I go into the room and Bill is laying there and he's kind of... He's dazed, but he's conscious and he's like, "Will, don't hurt her." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:47 (laughs)

Mike Judge 10:47 (laughs)

Willie D 10:47 "I made her do it." So it's like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:51 Your Bushwick Bill impression is wrong.

Mike Judge 10:52 I know. It's- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:53 It's so wrong.

Mike Judge 10:54 He's so good at it, though.

Willie D 10:55 So, so-

Mike Judge 10:55 (laughs)

Willie D 10:57 So that was that. You know, I checked on him, he was good, he's gonna survive. He lost his eye, but he's gonna survive.

Joe Rogan 11:03 How did he make her shoot him?

Willie D 11:06 He said that they were arguing... This is Bill's version, that they were arguing over, uh, something and he was mad so he pulled out the gun and he threatened to throw the baby downstairs. And then he, he has the gun in the- in, in, in the... His girlfriend is like... They're tussling over the gun and so Bill's like, "Shoot me, shoot me, shoot me." This is what he's saying that he told her. So the gun goes off. Boom! Bill gets shot in the eye. Now, knowing Bill like I know Bill, I know Bill didn't purposely shoot himself in the eye, get- have anyone shoot him in the eye. Bill just likes walking on the edge, you see? He'll walk that edge like, "I do it, I do it, I do it, I do... Oh shit, he shot..." (laughs)

Mike Judge 12:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:04 (laughs)

Willie D 12:04 "Damn." You know? So that, that's what I believe happened, but Bill say, you know, he made her shoot him. So-... get to the hospital and... (smacks lips) We go downstairs and Cliff Blodget is there. And at the time, Cliff is the co-owner of Rap-A-Lot Records. And Cliff say, you know, everybody, you know, we have a little meeting in the lobby and, "Yeah. Bill's okay. He gonna survive." You know? That, that was our first thought. You know what I'm saying? Everybody just wanted him to be okay. He's safe, he survived. Cliffs- Cliff say, back to business. But Cliff like, "Okay. So what, (laughs) what are we go- what are we gonna do about the album cover?" And I said, "Well, we can shoot it."

Joe Rogan 12:49 (laughs)

Willie D 12:51 He alive?

Mike Judge 12:53 (laughing)

Willie D 12:55 So... So Cliff is like, "Well, how we gonna do that?" I said, I said, "Man, we just go up there and shoot it." He said, "Well, who's gonna ask him?" I said, "I'll ask him." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:07 (laughing)

Willie D 13:10 So I went up there and I was like, "Bill." "Yeah." I say, "Man-"

Joe Rogan 13:17 (laughs)

Willie D 13:17 "... we..." (laughs) "We gonna shoot this album cover, man. You down?" Bill was like, "I don't care."

Joe Rogan 13:27 (laughing)

Willie D 13:28 He's like, "Yeah." He said, "Yeah." Went back down and told him it was a go. Me and Brad went upstairs. Cliff went to his car, got the camera. We went... We went upstairs and back to the room. The nurse put Bill on another gurney. And me and Brad rolled him down the hall.

Joe Rogan 13:49 So the nurse was in on it. Nurse knew you were gonna-

Willie D 13:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:52 (laughs) There it is.

Willie D 13:54 We rolled him down the hall and... We didn't roll him far. I mean, that, like, uh, maybe the room was like right behind us to the, to the right.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Whose idea was it for him to be holding the phone?

Willie D 14:04 I don't know, but I know Chief was there too, our road manager. So I don't know if Chief told him, you know, "Grab the phone or something." I don't know, but-

Joe Rogan 14:13 (laughs)

Mike Judge 14:13 Was the hat already on him? (laughs)

Willie D 14:16 No, he put the hat on too.

Joe Rogan 14:17 Oh.

Willie D 14:18 So, uh, yeah, I think that was Chief idea to put the props on, but he started rolling down the hallway and, and Cliff shot the picture and that's how you got the cover.

Joe Rogan 14:27 Wow.

Mike Judge 14:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:29 One of my great regrets is not having him on the podcast. He was reached, they reached out, whoever was representing him, reached out. And I had a, you know, I, I, my shit gets... I book it myself. I do it on my phone.

Willie D 14:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:41 So I have months in advance and I'm trying to coordinate shit. And it took a couple weeks for me, me to find a date and I got ahold of them again. But then he was sick.

Willie D 14:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:50 He was real sick. He was in the hospital and they said he couldn't travel anymore.

Willie D 14:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:53 And then shortly after, he died.

Willie D 14:55 Yeah. It, it, it happened fast. Like once he started, like once he made the announcement, his health deteriorated-

Joe Rogan 15:02 Was it pancreatic cancer?

Willie D 15:03 ... really fast. Uh, I think... What was it? Yeah, I think it was.

Joe Rogan 15:08 That's one of those ones that-

Willie D 15:10 Yeah. It was, it was pancreatic.

Joe Rogan 15:12 (sighs) That's one of those ones that gets you quick.

Willie D 15:14 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:15 (clears throat) That's, that's a bummer. How did you guys all get together?

Willie D 15:19 Very carefully.

Joe Rogan 15:21 (laughs)

Mike Judge 15:23 (laughing)

Willie D 15:23 So-

Mike Judge 15:23 (laughs)

Willie D 15:25 ... I started off as a solo artist. I was writing some songs for the Geto Boys new album. This is the first encar... Well, not even the first encarser- incarnation of Geto Boys, but this is like one of the incarn- one of the incarnations. (laughs) So the group has changed members several times. By the, by the time that I wrote these songs for the group, they had changed members maybe about three times. So he asked me, Jay asked me, J Prince asked me to write some s- some songs for the new album. And I wrote Let a Hoe Be a Hoe and Do it Like a G.O. Prince Johnny C didn't want to perform those songs. Well, he didn't want to perform Let a Hoe Be a Hoe, he was married.

Mike Judge 16:13 (laughing)

Joe Rogan 16:14 (laughs) By the way, I quote that.

Willie D 16:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:17 I quote... Yeah. I told you when I met you.

Mike Judge 16:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:18 That's one of my... I've, I said that on the podcast at least 30 times.

Willie D 16:22 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:22 Whenever someone says something, I'm like, "Let me quote the great Willie D, 'You gotta let a hoe be a hoe.'" (laughs)

Willie D 16:26 Real talk, man. That go a long way.

Joe Rogan 16:28 (laughs)

Mike Judge 16:29 (laughs)

Willie D 16:29 A- and, and that's male and female.

Joe Rogan 16:31 Yes.

Mike Judge 16:31 Yes.

Willie D 16:32 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:32 Yes.

Mike Judge 16:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 16:32 True. I'm glad you said that.

Willie D 16:34 Yeah. So I write the songs. Jay give them a ultimatum, "Look, man. Y'all perform these shows or go solo, but this is the direction I'm taking the group." Prior to that, the first incarnation of the Geto Boys had more like a Run-DMC style of rap. Jay wanted more southern H-Town Houston experience, so that's what I gave him. And he liked it, the people around him liked it. And he decided, "I'm gonna take the group in this direction." So when he gave him the ultimatum, Johnny C decided that he didn't wanna do it, but he did perform on the original Do It Like a G.O.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Hmm.

Willie D 17:23 Juke Box decided that he wanted to do it. So the first day of going into the studio to, to create this new group and this new sound, I didn't know Brad, Scarface. I didn't know him at all. I had met Bill before 'cause me and Bill had a run-in before, so I had met him before. Well, I didn't really meet him. Uh-

Joe Rogan 17:51 What kind of run-in?

Mike Judge 17:52 (laughs)

Willie D 17:54 It was... (laughs) It was a phy- physical altercation.

Joe Rogan 17:57 (laughs)

Mike Judge 17:57 I've heard all these stories.

Joe Rogan 17:58 (laughs)

Mike Judge 17:59 They're so good.

Willie D 18:00 But that happened. And you know, that was water under the bridge as far as I was concerned. We're... Jay comes to me one night and I'm just kinda skipping around the place 'cause I gotta... I'm trying to piece it together so you can make... As best as I can for, for it to make sense. Um, okay. So Jay comes to my house one night. He say, "Look, man. I want you... I got an idea. I want you to be in the Geto Boys."... I guess this is when he's having this problem with Johnny C dropping out and he's trying to figure out what he's going to do with the group. So, he comes to me one day, he say, "I got an idea. I want you to be a Geto Boy." I said, "Nah, I don't want to be in no group." (sighs) And he was like, uh, he said, "Man, you know, uh, you know, this is what I want to do." I said, "Yeah, I don't want to be in no group." And he was like, "Well, do it for me." (laughs) So, I looked at it like Jay was investing in my dream of becoming a rapper. So, when he said it like that, he convinced me, and I was like, "Okay, I'll do it. But after I do it, I'm going back solo." So, my time in The Geto Boys was supposed to be temporary all along. So, I agreed to do it and he told me, he said, "I got this other boy on the- on the- on the South Side named DJ Action." That's who everybody knows as Scarface now. He said, "I got DJ Action. I wanna put y'all in a group. You, Scarface..." I mean, well, he said, "DJ Action and Juke Box. Y'all will be the new Geto Boys." So, that's the group. He come to pick me up. He's in an Astro van. Scarface is in the- Scarface, AKA DJ Action, he's in the van. Beatle, his producer, is in the van. Ready Red, our DJ, is in the van. Bushwick is in the van 'cause he's hanging out, you know, that's Jay's buddy, so he's just hanging out. And I hop in. Let's see if I'm missing anybody. So Jay, Beatle, Brad, Bill, Red, Juke Box, and me. We all in the van, we going to make this album. We don't even know the title of the album. We just finna go make an album. We go out to Jay's ranch about an hour from my house. We get there, and I think the first or second night, Juke Box decided that he was gonna quit the group. Now, from what I understood from the conversation was that he was having kids, uh, twins or something, or a baby or something, and his woman wanted him to get a real job.

Guest 20:54 Oof.

Willie D 20:54 So, he quit the group. (exhales) So now, we decide, okay, it's gonna be me and Scarface. It's us. At this time, he's still DJ Action. So, it's me and Action, and Ready Red is our DJ. So, maybe like the second day or something, I'm in the studio and I'm- Red is making music and stuff and- and Bill is rapping Public Enemy's song. Yes, the rhythm, the rebel, without a pause or lowering my level.

Guest 21:28 (laughs)

Willie D 21:28 So, I look, and he's drinking a 40 ounce too. He got a 40.

Guest 21:33 (laughs)

Willie D 21:35 And a light comes on. (laughs) I say, "Let's put Bill in the group. Let's get Bill to take Juke- uh, Juke Box's place." So, everybody started laughing. I said, "Yeah, see, that's what the world gonna do. But they gonna stop laughing when they hear this gangster shit I'm gonna write for them." So, I said, "Jay," I say, "let me write something." I say, "If he do it, is he in the group?" And Jay was like... (laughs) .

Guest 22:07 (laughs)

Willie D 22:09 "Man, I don't know, man. Uh, Bill, what you think?" Bill said, "I don't know, but I can try."

Guest 22:18 (laughs)

Willie D 22:18 Wow. I took Bill to the- to the kitchen and we sat at the breakfast club- I mean, not at the breakfast club (laughs) . We sat at the breakfast table. I asked him some questions about himself and I embellished it with what I thought it might be like to- to walk in his shoes, and I came up with Size Ain't Shit. Three days later, he recorded it. That's how Bill became a rapper, and that's how he became a Geto Boy.

Guest 22:47 Wow, so a lot of people don't know that you were writing all that shit.

Willie D 22:50 Yeah, I- I- I was... On Geto Boy records, I would say, 70 to 80% of everything that ever came out of Bushwick's mouth came out of my head first.

Guest 23:04 That's crazy that you saw him rapping and a light went off and that formed The Geto Boys. This is like one of those stories-

Willie D 23:10 Yeah.

Mike Judge 23:12 He was only a dancer first, right? You- you-

Willie D 23:14 Yeah, see-

Mike Judge 23:14 You would break dance at the shows?

Willie D 23:17 Yeah, and so, like, we wasn't... Like, Bill actually was opening, like- like, an opening act for The Geto Boys prior to becoming an actual rapper and a member. He was on the cover of the first album, but he wasn't an- an official member of the group. He didn't have a contract. He was just- he was there for aesthetic purposes.

Guest 23:43 (laughs)

Willie D 23:43 So, he performed, I mean, he performed before the group would come out. He would warm the crowd up. He'd dance, you know? Little Billy, they used to call him- they used to call him Little Billy, and he would dance. And so, after he'd do his thing, then the group would come out and start rapping. So, that was his role at first. And we wasn't gonna have that in our group. We wasn't gonna have, like, a dancer in our group. But once Bill became a rapper, we said, "Well, let's utilize his dance skills." So, we would have parts in the show where Bill would, you know, do a little dancing and stuff. But if you listen to that first album that he, me, Scarface, and Ready Red made, that album-... Bill is only on like, maybe four songs. That's because he came in late, and those songs originally wasn't for him. That's why he's only on, like, I think we did maybe 12 s- yeah, we did 12 songs, and he's only m- He's on, like, maybe five songs or something. I can't remember.

Joe Rogan 24:51 The dude who quit, what's his name again?

Willie D 24:52 Jukebox.

Joe Rogan 24:53 How does Jukebox feel about all this? When you guys blew up, he had to be like, "Fuck." (laughs)

Willie D 24:59 Yeah. Well, you know, you gotta ask him how he feel. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:03 (laughs)

Willie D 25:03 But, uh, you know, h- he, look, I've seen a number of people go through that in this business. I've been in the game 31 years, so I've seen really, really talented people who are not making money initially. It's not happening fast enough.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Yeah.

Willie D 25:24 And I've seen dudes not make it in this game because their woman told them, "You need to get a real job."

Joe Rogan 25:32 Yeah.

Willie D 25:32 "Look, we got a baby. Look, you keep coming back here. You're going in the studio. You're spending all this time hanging out rapping and all this shit, you need to get a job." And one of the dudes, it was... I remember this, this white, white guy. He's probably a fan of your podcast. Uh, little kid, man. Uh, when I met him, he was, like, 17 years old. He rapped like Too $hort, cold-blooded. Think of it, a white dude rapping like Too $hort.

Joe Rogan 26:00 (laughs) Mm.

Willie D 26:00 And he was authentic with it. Dope, dope, dope. So I was gonna put him on, and when we had the meeting, he didn't show up.

Joe Rogan 26:14 (sucks teeth)

Willie D 26:14 He didn't show up for the meeting.

Joe Rogan 26:15 (groans)

Willie D 26:16 And then he, he gives me the story, this sob story about his girl this and this and that or whatever. And then so maybe six months later, uh, we tried again. And then something else came up, and then I cut him off after that. So fast-forward, I seen him about maybe three years after that, and he tells me that he's working at some grocery store stocking groceries. And-

Joe Rogan 26:42 (sighs)

Willie D 26:42 ... he got a baby with the girl, but she's gone now.

Joe Rogan 26:44 Whoa.

Willie D 26:46 So this is a cautionary tale, and this is the reason why I'm telling it, is because that could have been me. When I was 20, 21? 20, 21, 22, there was this girl I really, really liked, man, you know? I was dating her, and, and she made me work for it, you know? I had to work to get to the dough. So I liked her, you know? I'd earned her.

Joe Rogan 27:15 (laughs)

Willie D 27:17 When I would write, I would put a sign on the door, "Do not, do not disturb," and I would unplug the phone. I would give myself five minutes to dedicate toward my craft every single day, no matter what was going on in my life. Didn't matter if I was broke. Didn't matter if there was a death in the family. Didn't matter if I was in a bad mood. Didn't matter if I was going out that night. What- it didn't matter. Five minutes minimum. That means research, planning, plotting, writing, doing something towards my goal. I would unplug that phone, and she would try to call me and couldn't reach me. So one day, she, we get on the phone, and she said, "Uh, I think we need to break up because you don't ever have time for me." So I tried to explain it to her, but she wouldn't listen. But I was okay with it because I had made my mind up well before that, that I was not gonna let anything get in the way of me becoming a successful rapper. So I, that meant everybody. That meant any family members, friends, girlfriend, whatever, 'cause I just felt like that rap was gonna last longer. My music, my talent was gonna last longer. My gift was gonna last longer than any relationship.

Joe Rogan 28:40 When, uh, w- where'd you get this belief in yourself? Did this come from boxing? 'Cause a lot of people don't know, you're a really good boxer.

Willie D 28:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:46 And I remember, there was, uh, we talked about this when I met you, that one of the things that I, I didn't know that you were a boxer until I saw that rapper versus rapper boxing event they put on. And you, was it Marley Marl?

Willie D 28:58 Marley Mar- I mean Melly, Melly Mel.

Joe Rogan 29:00 Melly Mel.

Willie D 29:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:01 I forget who it was.

Willie D 29:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:02 You fucked that dude up. That was a r- that was wrong. Like, that was, uh-

Willie D 29:06 Well, it, it, it-

Joe Rogan 29:06 ... whoever, whoever set that up-

Willie D 29:08 Well, it, it was either him or me, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:10 I understand, but it wasn't-

Willie D 29:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:12 ... either him or you.

Willie D 29:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:13 As soon as-

Mike Judge 29:14 But he had won a bunch before that though, hadn't he? Hadn't he won a bunch of those?

Joe Rogan 29:17 That's correct.

Willie D 29:17 Oh, no, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 29:18 But when you watch this, look at the way he's holding his hands and look at Willie.

Mike Judge 29:22 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:22 This is not a, this, this is a terrible fight. Like, if I was in the guy's corner, I would have thrown in the towel as soon as I saw him holding his hands up.

Willie D 29:29 Well, it wasn't one of my greatest, my greatest, uh, e- exhibitions, but, uh, it was effective, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:35 Well, you could tell right away that you really knew how to box.

Willie D 29:38 But he was... Mel was unorthodox, so, so it was kind of like it was... It took longer to really, like, zero in on what I wanted to do with him.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Well, he's a big strong guy.

Willie D 29:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:49 When you, you see him moving, you can tell he's athletic and he hits hard, and you... But you were setting it up.

Mike Judge 29:56 Wasn't he known for street fights, you said, or something like it? (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 29:59 See, there's a lot of people that are known for street fights 'cause when you're fighting in the streets, a lot of times, you're fighting people that don't actually know how to fight. But me-

Mike Judge 30:05 Oh.

Joe Rogan 30:05 ... as a person who's a, a fight fan who had done martial arts my whole life, I was looking at Will. I was like, "He knows how to fight." Like, you could just see by the way you're moving, that's it. Not, not some good camera work, but-

Mike Judge 30:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:18 ... but clear.

Mike Judge 30:20 Yeah.

Willie D 30:20 Yeah. It was a clean punch. So, so Mel, for, like, maybe five years, him and his manager would call and say, "We want a rematch." And I was like, uh, you know, like, "The first one was for charity, you know? I'm gonna have to get paid if you want to..."... you, you want to get your, you wanna get that rep restored, bro, you gonna have to pay for it.

Joe Rogan 30:44 (laughs)

Willie D 30:44 You know, I'm not gonna do it for free. But, look, when I, when I look back at it, I wish it was somebody else that, that, that, that I had the squabble with, right? 'Cause Mel is a good dude. I like Mel, I like his team, I like his people. They good people. So, but, you know, f- for a while though, but we was going back and forth. I was like, "Man, you, you know, I know what, I know what happened and I know what you want to do." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:09 (laughs)

Willie D 31:09 "So if you want, if you, if you want to get back in the good graces of The Knockout Artist, man, you gonna have to, you gonna have to pay for that." So, uh, we never could, you know, work out a number that-

Joe Rogan 31:20 But you had a legit boxing past though.

Willie D 31:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:23 What was your, what was your, your boxing history? You had won-

Willie D 31:27 Golden Gloves.

Joe Rogan 31:27 ... Golden Gloves events.

Willie D 31:28 '84.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Yeah.

Willie D 31:29 Texas.

Joe Rogan 31:30 Yeah. So you had a leg- how much, how many fights did you have?

Willie D 31:33 32.

Joe Rogan 31:34 See? That, there's no substitution for that. There's no substitution for that. If you've actually been in there 32 times and you got a guy who's good at fighting, I'm sure he's a tough guy, but that's a mismatch, that's a...

Willie D 31:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:46 When y- you had that kind of discipline, that had to play a part in your rap career, because to get that good as a boxer, you gotta put that time in when you don't want to.

Willie D 31:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:57 You have to grind.

Willie D 31:58 Yeah. You know, my, my greatest motivation was just changing my lifestyle 'cause I come from insufficient, insufficient living, insufficient love, insufficient clothing, insufficient housing, you know, insufficient, uh, care. Everything was insufficient, except the bad stuff. I wanted out. I was like, "I got to change this trajectory. I don't like it and I'm not going to bring my children into this world like this. I'm not gonna bring my children and put my children at a social disadvantage."

Joe Rogan 32:47 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 32:48 So this is why it was very important for me to get some money first, before I started having children, you know? And, a- if somebody's already in that position then it's already happened and y- you didn't plan it out the right way, but as soon as you can, you gotta get it right, you gotta make it right, because children don't ask to come into this world. And you bring these children into this world and a world of insufficient, you know, living even and, and, and insufficient love is even worse. Because if you got sufficient love, love will make you grind so hard that you'll get it. You know? Because once you give life, life is bigger than yours, and them children, you realize is more important than whatever that it, it is that you want to do. And you look at... And really, when you put that energy into that and you let that be your driving force, you actually become a greater person, because you... It, it's like n- 'cause y- your, your motivation is bigger than you.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 33:50 It's greater than you. You may deci- you may sometimes wake up and don't want to do it, but because you love those babies so much, you're, "I, I got, I'm, I gotta do it." Sometimes you might want to snap, sometimes you want to tell the boss, "Man, kiss my ass. Go to hell, you funky mother..." You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 34:05 Yeah.

Willie D 34:05 You want to just go off on the boss. And you be thinking about them kids and you're like, "Ooh-wee, nah, I can't do that."

Joe Rogan 34:11 Right. Where did you get this wisdom from? When you were young and you were, you were experiencing these hard times, how did you... I mean, a lot of people make m- the same mistakes their parents make, the same mistakes other people around them make. It's very few people that dig their heels in the ground and go, "No, no, no. This shit stops with me."

Willie D 34:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:31 How did you... Where did you get the wisdom?

Willie D 34:33 I just kind of like... It was, a lot of it was trial and error. Baptism through fire. A lot of it. I just... I w- I listened to Stevie Wonder's music. It's very inspirational, Stevie Wonder music, very like, very inspirational. Probably saved my life. I watched manly examples, like examples of fatherhood, like James Evans from Good Times.

Joe Rogan 35:06 Yes.

Willie D 35:07 John Amos.

Joe Rogan 35:08 I met John Amos at The Comedy Store.

Willie D 35:10 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 35:10 Oh, he was cool as fuck.

Willie D 35:12 Yeah. Yeah, I hear he's a real cool dude. I need to meet him. That's one of the things, like, that's one of the people, you know, in this, in this game that I'd, I'd like to, to meet one day.

Joe Rogan 35:21 He's so n-

Willie D 35:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:23 So down to earth.

Willie D 35:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:24 So natural. When you talk to him, he grabs you, he's laughing. He's, he's great.

Willie D 35:28 Yeah. Well, it was him, man. It, it was watching his example of fatherhood, his undying-

Joe Rogan 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 35:34 ... love that he had for his children-

Joe Rogan 35:36 Yeah.

Willie D 35:37 ... his, his wife. He was a man. When you went to the Evans house, you knew it was a man on the other side of that door. You couldn't just come in there and do whatever you wanted to do and mess with his family or whatever. It was a man on the other side of that door.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Isn't it crazy that sitcoms like that can, they can have so much value?

Willie D 35:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Even though it was an entertainment show, for a lot of people, you, you look at that guy and you say, "That's who I want to be."

Willie D 36:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:03 "I want, I want to aspire to have that kind of family." I was... Like, there's an example of a man.

Willie D 36:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:09 Even though it's a comedy.

Willie D 36:10 Right. A- and you're right about that, man. The only thing that I wanted to make sure that I did not repeat was the cycle of not ever making it out.

Joe Rogan 36:25 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 36:25 Because James never made it out. He, in fact, he died.

Joe Rogan 36:28 Right.

Willie D 36:29 (laughs) You know? He, he got a new job and went out, I think. He g- got killed. They killed him off like, like, a, an accident in the snow some-

Joe Rogan 36:38 Why did they kill him off?

Willie D 36:39 ... time. It was snowy, snowy weather.

Joe Rogan 36:39 Did he run off the show?

Willie D 36:40 Well, they killed him off because he-... didn't like the direction the show was going in. They, you know, they was doing a lot of, uh, he didn't like the, it, it had a lot to do with the, the Jimmy Walker character.

Joe Rogan 36:54 Oh.

Willie D 36:55 You know, the, you know, quite frankly it was a lot of buffoonery, right?

Joe Rogan 36:59 Yeah.

Mike Judge 36:59 He thought it was getting too broad, d- too big, and-

Willie D 37:03 Well, he thought-

Mike Judge 37:04 ... dynomite stuff.

Willie D 37:05 Yeah, exactly.

Mike Judge 37:05 Yeah.

Willie D 37:05 The dynomite and stuff and all that, and he wanted, he wanted to have more social stuff. He thought that they, that they could continue that, that trend of making funny stuff but also being socially astute.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Mm.

Willie D 37:17 And they, um, you know, uh, they just couldn't see eye to eye.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Well, Jimmy Walker at the time, if you remember, he was a gigantic character.

Willie D 37:26 He was.

Joe Rogan 37:26 He was huge.

Mike Judge 37:27 He was huge.

Willie D 37:28 He was.

Joe Rogan 37:28 He, that dynamite, that haunted him forever.

Willie D 37:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:31 'Cause you know Jimmy became a comic.

Willie D 37:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:32 And we would see Jimmy at The Laugh Factory, and he was always doing standup, and people demanded that he say dynomite. Like-

Willie D 37:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:41 ... it was a trap.

Willie D 37:42 Yeah. It was, it was, man. But it was, to me, the greatest sitcom ever because it really, it really shaped, helped shape my life as p- type of person that I became. So now along the way, you know, I was, like I said, it was baptism through fire. I, I made a lot of mistakes along the way, but one of the things that I try to do is not repeat the same mistakes. I am not going to ever be perfect. I don't aspire to be perfect. But what I do aspire to do is learn from my mistakes and not make the same mistakes. Oh, I'm, I got some more mistakes to make. I'm gonna make s- few more big ones-

Joe Rogan 38:25 (laughs)

Willie D 38:25 ... before I get up outta here.

Mike Judge 38:27 (laughs)

Willie D 38:27 (laughs) You know? You know? But I-

Joe Rogan 38:29 But not the same ones.

Willie D 38:29 But not the same ones.

Joe Rogan 38:30 Yeah.

Willie D 38:31 And, and I will grow.

Joe Rogan 38:33 Yeah.

Willie D 38:33 I will grow. And I think, but I think that I got through, man. I think I was spared. You know, I think it, it was, part of it was my, my, my will to leave my mark, and then a, a lot of it was luck, and then the rest of it was favor.

Joe Rogan 38:52 But you know, I think it's amazing what you're doing, because I think what happened with you with watching Good Times, your, you know, I know you know this, but your social media presence and what you put out there, like-

Willie D 39:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:06 ... you're a man. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're a man of your word. You stand for things. And when you, when you put these thing, when you call people out on their bullshit, and you call men out on their weakness, you're setting examples-

Willie D 39:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:20 ... that a lot of young guys are seeing. And they're, they're looking at you as a guy who not just get out, not just got out, left his mark, but evolved.

Willie D 39:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:29 Evolved as a man. You know, when you were running for, what were you running for?

Willie D 39:33 City council.

Joe Rogan 39:34 And, you know, you and I had a conversation about it. You're like, "Well, my past came back to haunt me."

Willie D 39:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:38 You know, this, this is one of the, like, people have to have a past.

Willie D 39:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:43 Like, and a guy like you who has a past is more valuable, a guy who gets, who can show people. Like, just because you fucked up-

Willie D 39:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:52 ... just 'cause you done dumb shit or you were in a bad situation when you were younger, it doesn't, that doesn't define you.

Willie D 39:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Like, who you are now is who you are.

Willie D 40:01 Right. I like to tell people, "My, my past don't define me. It refine me."

Joe Rogan 40:10 I like it.

Willie D 40:11 You see?

Joe Rogan 40:11 Yeah.

Willie D 40:11 Because it's so much that I see. I have foresight now. So much that I see, that I've seen, I've witnessed, I've done myself personally or, you know, I've been very, very close to the action. And I'm a odds man. I say, "Well, you know, if you do this, then more than likely this will be the outcome."

Joe Rogan 40:38 Yeah.

Willie D 40:38 That's why I never joined a gang, 'cause I was like, not that I didn't do anything wrong, but I felt like if I'm going to do something wrong, I trust me to not snitch me out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:52 (laughs)

Mike Judge 40:52 (laughs)

Willie D 40:53 You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:53 (laughs)

Mike Judge 40:53 Best reason for

Guest 40:54 Yeah.

Willie D 40:54 I'm gonna tell you a story that, I'll tell you a story I've never, never told publicly.

Guest 41:01 Ahem.

Willie D 41:01 In the mid-'80s there was some cab killings in Houston that it was killing cab k- cab drivers, right? The guys who were involved, who started it, came to my house first to get me to go with them to hit a lick. We poor. We in the hood. You know? Like everybody need money. Some of us, we're not gonna eat, you know, if we don't go out there and kill something. Not literally kill a person, but kill something, you know, so that we can, that we can, um, nourish our bodies, right? They came to me, "Hey man, look, we're finna go do this." Wa wa wom. And I look out and I see like, it's the dude that, one of the cats that's, you know, in the neighborhood, that tough guy, and then I s- I look out and I see like three other dudes with him. Oh hell no, that's too many dudes. You gonna do something. Now if, if he wouldn't have had that many people with him, I probably would've went with him.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Mm.

Willie D 42:12 If it would've, would've just been him and another cat, all right, I probably would've went. I don't know. But he had like three other dudes with him. And the next morning, I hear a cab driver, old Black dude in the neighborhood. Well, he wasn't from the neighborhood but they killed him in the neighborhood. And he was this elderly dude. And they only took like 30 something bucks.

Joe Rogan 42:41 (inhales deeply) Oh man. (exhales)

Willie D 42:42 Uh, and so I know-... that's what happened, right? So then over the next, like, maybe three weeks, four more cab drivers get killed. Now, I know ... Um, pretty good- I got a pretty good idea who- who's doing this, right? Because I'm not the only one talk- that, that knows. It's other people that know these guys and they're talking. So there's murmurs in the streets about this happening. So then, uh, they get caught up and each of these guys, they end up with ... The one that got the less years was like 15 years. All these guys were minors except the, the main one. They were 14 to like 19 years old. So they end up with a minimum 15 years, and then the one that got the max was like 40 years. So my life would have been very, very much different had I walked out that door that night.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Whew. Wow. (clears throat) That's some heavy shit. ******.

Willie D 43:52 So I ... Yeah. So I can see a lot of things happening. Like, I can s- you know, like, experience, you know, I can s- I can see a lot of things happening from my own experience, but other people's experience too, and I personally do believe that experience is not the best teacher. Other people's experience is the best teacher. Because if I s- see you go out and ... If you walk around the corner and you come back, running back bleeding profusely, "Oh, man, (panting) these guys around the corner just stabbed me, man." Why would I run my silly ass around the corner?

Joe Rogan 44:35 (laughs)

Guest 44:35 (laughs)

Willie D 44:35 They just stabbed you.

Joe Rogan 44:37 Right.

Willie D 44:37 What's gonna happen to me? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:39 Right.

Willie D 44:39 What, what's likely to happen to me?

Joe Rogan 44:41 Yeah.

Willie D 44:41 What could happen to me if I go around that same corner?

Joe Rogan 44:45 (laughs)

Willie D 44:45 That motherfucker might stab me next. So no, I'm not going around that corner. I'm going in the opposite direction. In fact, get from by me, man, 'cause they might come stab you again-

Joe Rogan 44:55 (laughs)

Willie D 44:55 ... and get me while I'm with you.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Yeah. I think you're right. I think you can learn from both, but you can learn the terrible lessons from other people without having to do it.

Willie D 45:03 Without ever having to do it.

Joe Rogan 45:04 Yeah.

Willie D 45:04 If you stick your hand in the fire and it burn you, why in the hell would I stick my hand- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:09 Yeah.

Willie D 45:10 ... in that fire and it let, let it burn me unless I wanna be burned?

Joe Rogan 45:14 (laughs)

Willie D 45:14 So that's why I, you know, these, these ... The gang thing, I, you know, I could never get with it. I've never been a gang member, so I don't know what these guys be thinking. I don't know what they, what they be thinking, man. But I just don't see an upside to it. I just ... It has a terrible retirement plan.

Joe Rogan 45:37 (laughs)

Guest 45:37 (laughs)

Willie D 45:38 You know, most of the dudes-

Joe Rogan 45:41 (laughs)

Willie D 45:41 ... most of the dudes are killed before they're 30 or maimed. They have a extensive criminal history. Their, their opportunities are severely limited because of the record. People are afraid to do business with them. You know, it's li- it's just way too much and I just feel f- I just figure like, you know, well, I'm just gonna go ahead and avoid that. Plus, I'm a Black man in America. It's all kind of ways to get killed in here. It's all kind of ways to die already, all right? Okay, we ... Besides, like, s- you know, like natural stuff like natural death, diabetes, cancer, lupus, uh, you know, obesity, all these type of things, right, that can kill you. Stroke. You got accidents, you know, might get hit by a car or something like that. Uh, you got domestic disputes. Why would I say, "Man, you know what? I need one more motherfucking thing to die-

Joe Rogan 46:47 (laughs)

Willie D 46:47 ... to help me rush this death."

Joe Rogan 46:49 (laughs)

Willie D 46:49 "I gotta get there, baby. I gotta get there. (smacks lips) I'm gonna join a gang."

Guest 46:54 (laughs) .

Willie D 46:56 I'm trying to eliminate the things-

Joe Rogan 46:58 Yeah.

Willie D 46:59 ... that can, that can kill me. I'm trying to avoid those type of things. Why would I walk right into something?

Joe Rogan 47:07 But again, a lot of people do. Like, what, what ... Where did you get the wisdom? Like, you've, uh ... The way you think right now, this ... Have you always thought this way, where you plot ahead and look at things like you're playing 3D chess?

Willie D 47:20 I, I did to an extent, but I got a lot better at it in my 20s, like late 20s. I got really better. Go- And the reason why I say that is because, uh, the trip part about it is that, like, there are dudes that are my age that tell me, "Man, you was like a big brother to me." You know, because I've been knowing them since we were like teenagers or-

Joe Rogan 47:42 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 47:42 ... early 20s or whatever, and I've always been just a few steps ahead in, in, you know, seeing what was going on-

Joe Rogan 47:50 Yeah.

Willie D 47:51 ... you know, watching, you know? So ... But I, I still had some things that, that I had to learn. Uh, primarily conflict resolution. Conflict resolution, it should be taught in schools.

Joe Rogan 48:05 I agree.

Willie D 48:06 Uh, Americans have a big problem with conflict resolution. It should be taught in schools. Any of you politicians out there, y'all wanna work on a bill with me, come on with it. I'm down. Conflict resolution should be taught in schools, because I, I remember being on stage, man, and somebody would like heckle, like ... And it'd be like, oh, it would be a dude, always a dude.

Joe Rogan 48:32 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 48:32 Heckle, like, "Oh, man, and he- da da da da." Just talking crazy for no reason. And I would jump off stage, knock them out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:44 (laughs)

Guest 48:44 (laughs)

Willie D 48:44 Get back on stage and finish the show.

Joe Rogan 48:46 (laughs)

Willie D 48:48 ... you know, I would do stuff like that. I mean, uh, uh, once we were in Jackson, Mississippi... Let me see, uh, statute of limitation. Okay, I'm past. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:01 (laughs)

Willie D 49:01 Yeah, okay. We're in Jackson, Mississippi and the promoter owes us our backend. You know, they pay you the front end, you know, for signing the contract, agreeing to do the show. Then you show up, they pay you the rest. We get there, it's cars everywhere. It's cars lining the streets. It's, they're all on the grass. We know this is big. And for artists, I don't care how many sold out shows you do, you love to see the people turn out and you go like, "Wow." So this is one of those nights. Our manager, our road manager, Chief, comes back to the limo... And this, you know, this was long ago, long time ago. People were still ri- we were still riding in limousines. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:48 (laughs)

Willie D 49:50 So our manager comes over, he's like, he say, "Hey man," he say, "he ain't got all the money. Promoter don't have all the money." I said, "What do you mean he ain't got all the money? Man, all these people out here?" Man, we like, "Man, fuck that." We... I grabbed my cousin Dre and we go in there. "Say man, you gonna come up with that money or..."

Joe Rogan 50:19 (laughs)

Willie D 50:21 At first he chuckled. "Say man, hey, look here, bring that money back here," and da da da da da.

Joe Rogan 50:31 (laughs)

Willie D 50:31 He gave us the money. We came back to the limo, okay-

Joe Rogan 50:36 I like how you're being careful with this even-

Mike Judge 50:39 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:41 ... just the emotion, man. (laughs)

Willie D 50:43 We got the money. We got the money and now everything is good. Went on the stage and did the show and then left. This is me like, again, cowboy western days.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Right.

Willie D 50:57 Not really thinking like, like i- all kinds of things that could've happened with that in that situation, right?

Joe Rogan 51:03 Right. Sure.

Mike Judge 51:04 (laughs)

Willie D 51:05 Like, going back on the stage, like, listen, just going back on the stage, look, back up. Just taking that money like that in the first place, you know, that's a case. That could be a case, okay? Then you go on stage to do the show. This, uh, we in his hometown. He could be rallying the troops-

Joe Rogan 51:24 Making phone calls, right.

Willie D 51:25 Vroom, vroom.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Yeah.

Willie D 51:26 We come out, it's over. I'm not thinking on that type of level. I'm like, "He violated, you get this and that's it." And it's whatever, who else wanna get it.

Joe Rogan 51:34 What would you have done different now?

Willie D 51:36 Oh, uh, in that exact same situation, uh, I would try to convince him to pay up. Like, he still wouldn't get away with it, but I would just do it differently.

Joe Rogan 51:51 Yeah. I like... (laughs) I get it.

Willie D 51:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Yeah.

Willie D 51:55 Uh, uh, still, he would have to pay up, I mean-

Joe Rogan 51:59 But there's a long history of promoters not paying people.

Willie D 52:01 Yeah. He, they-

Joe Rogan 52:02 Yeah.

Willie D 52:02 ... they must pay.

Joe Rogan 52:03 They must pay.

Willie D 52:04 They must pay because-

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah.

Willie D 52:06 ... what you don't wanna do is you don't wanna have, like be in a situation where people owe you money. And look man, if... Hey, it's an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Nothing more, nothing less. You know, the same way with, with record contracts and p- and stuff. I've heard people talk about, bad about executives and stuff. "Well, they didn't pay." Well, you know, uh, what happened to all that gangster shot, that, that gangster talk you be doing?

Mike Judge 52:39 Right. Right.

Willie D 52:40 Well, you can't go get your money? You're not gonna go-

Joe Rogan 52:42 (laughs)

Mike Judge 52:42 (laughs)

Willie D 52:43 You're not gonna go get your money? Like, I, I don't understand that.

Joe Rogan 52:46 Right. When did you guys meet? Did you guys meet for Office Space or did you know each other before that?

Mike Judge 52:52 Um, it was af- it was after, uh, through-

Joe Rogan 52:54 It was after?

Mike Judge 52:55 Through Brad, yeah. I mean, I was a huge fan. I mean, I put all those songs in Office Space, which actually-

Joe Rogan 53:00 That's-

Mike Judge 53:00 ... actually was shot like-

Joe Rogan 53:01 The beginning of Office Space when he's in the car rapping by himself is one of the classic all time scenes.

Mike Judge 53:07 Oh, yeah.

Willie D 53:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:07 Yeah, it's a-

Willie D 53:07 I met Mike in 2013 at South by Southwest.

Joe Rogan 53:12 Ah.

Mike Judge 53:12 Yeah. Brad was in town. Brad, I also put Brad in Idiocracy. He's in there briefly. But, um, yeah, we, yeah, we met, uh, 2013 and I nerded out probably like you did.

Joe Rogan 53:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Mike Judge 53:25 But I also, I mean, I, I just think all these stories are incredible and, um, yeah, we stayed in touch since then.

Joe Rogan 53:31 That's pretty cool. But I'm, I'm a giant fan of people who overcome adversity because I think it's not just a, a testament to your character, but it's a lesson for other people. That's why I think it's so important.

Willie D 53:40 That's why I jumped on, uh, social media.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 53:43 I knew I was risking a lot of disrespect, right?

Joe Rogan 53:48 Mm.

Willie D 53:49 Because people on social media and on the internet period can be the most disrespectful bastards ever. And you know like, they say things that you know they would never ever ever say to your face, but they just be...

Joe Rogan 54:09 Yeah.

Mike Judge 54:10 (growling)

Joe Rogan 54:10 Yeah.

Mike Judge 54:10 (moaning)

Joe Rogan 54:12 Yeah.

Mike Judge 54:14 (growling)

Joe Rogan 54:20 (laughs)

Mike Judge 54:20 (laughs)

Willie D 54:20 (laughs) You know it. Man, so I knew what I was doing. I, I, I knew that there would be people that was, would just oppose just to oppose. There are people out there that they see you doing it, they wanna oppose just to oppose. I knew there would be people that would try to leverage my re- my, my history, my past against me.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 54:44 I knew that would happen. Sometimes people do stuff like that...... because they don't want you to give up information that could save somebody else. They don't want people to be saved.

Joe Rogan 54:56 You think that, that's true?

Willie D 54:57 Oh, yeah. Th- th- there, there are some really evil people in the world, bro. When I was younger, I was an idealist. I didn't think that... I knew it was people out there like that, but I didn't think it was that many. The internet opened it up. It really exposed it.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 55:14 It's some really, really bad people in the world.

Joe Rogan 55:17 There's some bad people in the world.

Willie D 55:17 And very, very dis- very... (sighs) You know how they say, "Hurt people hurt people"?

Joe Rogan 55:24 Yes.

Willie D 55:25 Right?

Joe Rogan 55:25 Yeah.

Willie D 55:25 So, a lot of these people are hurt. They don't know how to channel that anger and ... into something positive, right?

Joe Rogan 55:35 Right.

Willie D 55:35 So, they just take the easy route and do the negative thing.

Joe Rogan 55:39 Yeah.

Willie D 55:39 Right? And they just go, like, however they feel at that moment, they just respond.

Joe Rogan 55:43 Well, when you're in a position like you're in, and you're o- on, in the public and you have that comment section, that's just a, it's a honeypot for those kind of people.

Willie D 55:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Just looking, just looking for an opportunity to try to get under your skin.

Willie D 55:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:57 You know?

Willie D 55:57 Yeah. And what I do to them, I try to be as disrespectful-

Joe Rogan 56:04 (laughs)

Willie D 56:05 ... as I possibly can.

Joe Rogan 56:06 I noticed that. (laughs)

Willie D 56:08 I... Look, let me tell you, man, when I say I try to be disrespectful, I try to make them crawl back under that rock-

Joe Rogan 56:21 (laughs)

Willie D 56:21 ... that they came from under.

Joe Rogan 56:23 But you're giving them attention in doing so.

Willie D 56:25 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 56:26 (laughs)

Willie D 56:27 When I-

Joe Rogan 56:28 (laughs) He said, "No, no, no." (laughs)

Willie D 56:32 No. When I smash 'em-

Joe Rogan 56:33 (laughs)

Willie D 56:34 ... I destroy them. I let them know, "Nobody likes you. You have a hard time getting a girlfriend."

Joe Rogan 56:42 (laughs)

Willie D 56:42 "Your children don't like you. Your mama and daddy didn't like you."

Joe Rogan 56:45 (laughs)

Willie D 56:46 "So, you come on here and you see people having a good time, and you see people are in good spirits, and you want to destroy that and make them feel like you're miserable, low-down ass. You are an uncivilized mutt."

Joe Rogan 56:58 (laughs)

Willie D 56:58 "Nobody likes you." And then I block 'em. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:06 (laughs)

Willie D 57:06 One of 'em had the audacity to come under a different name and say-

Joe Rogan 57:10 (laughs)

Willie D 57:10 ... "Oh, you're so Mr. Big Shot, you wanna block somebody when they say something back." Look, bastard, you're not gonna come up off my name. You're not gonna come up, get on my platform and handle me. I got time. So-

Joe Rogan 57:23 (laughs)

Willie D 57:25 I got moderators on my platforms-

Joe Rogan 57:27 (laughs)

Willie D 57:28 ... and, and I do a lot of it myself, too. So, when they come, our goal is to destroy trolls.

Joe Rogan 57:35 (laughs)

Willie D 57:35 I got moderators like, like LaShawn and Miss Michie and, and, and Leelee, you know? Man, we destroy them. Miss Ch- uh, Miss Chyna, White Chyna. We ain't playing no games, man.

Joe Rogan 57:52 (laughs)

Willie D 57:52 You have to destroy them, make them feel like the lowlife that they are. And what, and I'll tell you what's happened numerous times, they'll delete their comment.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Oh.

Willie D 58:05 I, sometimes I'll give 'em a chance to, to do the right thing. I'll give them a chance to do the right thing, and if they don't do the right thing, if they try to continue on that lonely road, I will hit them with the block, and that hurts them more... Blocking is the ultimate ignoring a person, ignoring of a person-

Joe Rogan 58:32 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 58:32 ... when you block them. Imagine somebody block you on their phone. It could be somebody that you don't really care too much about, but the idea that they block you, "What did I do, man? What, what's going on?" You're like, "Uh, who are you to block me?" You know?

Joe Rogan 58:47 (laughs)

Willie D 58:48 They don't like it. It hurts 'em. And that's what I try to do. I try, I try to make them, uh, first of all, just really feel worse than they already feel. And, you know, sometimes, if I can get a suicide out of it, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:07 (laughs)

Willie D 59:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:08 I have the exact opposite approach. I don't pay attention to anything.

Willie D 59:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:12 I have, uh, what I, uh, I think of my time as bandwidth. I feel like if I have 100 units, like, uh, that's all I have. If I'm concentrating on something, like is, uh, the most important thing in my life, like, having a conversation with my daughter, doing standup, like some- something that's super important, that requires 100 units. That's all I have, all my bandwidth.

Willie D 59:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:31 Any time I spend talking with some fucking idiot- (laughs) ... that's just time I'm stealing-

Willie D 59:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:39 ... from the things I love. There's no time for that. There's zero time. I'm not changing people. I might make them feel bad, but-

Willie D 59:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... they already feel bad.

Willie D 59:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:47 And you're not gonna make me feel bad.

Willie D 59:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:49 I know who I am.

Willie D 59:50 Yeah. And, and, and that's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 59:52 But. I feel a but coming. (laughs)

Willie D 59:56 Well, I'll give you a however.

Joe Rogan 59:57 You don't get suicide out of that. There's some sort of a conjunction on the way.

Willie D 1:00:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:01 I'll give you the however.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 (laughs) However is just as good.

Willie D 1:00:06 Somehow, you know, however seems to not be as brutal as a but. But is like (slaps hands) , you know, like dead on.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 However's got more, more comedy, comedic flair.

Willie D 1:00:15 But however is more subtle. It's kinda subtle.

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 However. (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:17 However.

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:20 I, I think that it's possible to walk and chew bubblegum, right? So, for me-

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 1:00:26 ... I just, I look at it like walking and chewing bubblegum. Like I, I can do both. I can, I can give the information to the people that want it-

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 Yeah.

Willie D 1:00:37 ... and that's cool about it and keep it moving. But every now and, uh, you know, every now and then, I can take a little, quick pause and make him feel worse than he already feels.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:50 Like (imitates buzzer) boop, boop, block, boop.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:54 Uh! Destroyer! Look, look, one, one- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 (laughs)

Willie D 1:00:59 O- one day, uh, I was at this restaurant in Houston and this white dude, he probably about, you know, 35 or something, you know-... round about that white terrorist age. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 (laughs) White terrorist age? (laughs)

Willie D 1:01:15 White terrorist. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Timothy McVeigh age.

Willie D 1:01:17 White domestic, white domestic terrorist age.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 (laughs)

Willie D 1:01:20 He comes walking up to me, right? He's like, "Hey, man. You Willie D?" And I... And so he's... S- first thing I do is I take a step and I'm, and I'm watching-

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 (laughs)

Willie D 1:01:33 ... everything now. I'm really intense. I lock in on him. And I say, "Yeah." He say, "Hey, man. Hey, man. I'm the one on Fa- that was on Facebook, man. You know, you told me, you told me my kids were ugly."

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 (laughs)

Willie D 1:01:50 I was like... I say, "Yeah, that sound like something I would've said."

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 (laughs)

Willie D 1:01:54 I say, "But what did you say?" He say, "Oh, man. It's nothing, man. You know, I'm not... I ain't tripping, man. You know, it's just... It was just, you know, social media banter, man. That's all, you know." I said, "All right." But I locked in on him a little bit more and, you know, to make sure. But yeah, I remember when I said that, like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Yeah.

Willie D 1:02:20 ... I... He... The dude was talking reckless-

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 (laughs)

Willie D 1:02:25 ... so I checked out his profile. Saw his little kids. (laughs) Saw him on there with his kids.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Yeah.

Willie D 1:02:32 And I was like, "Yeah, don't try to check me. Check your baby."

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 (laughs)

Willie D 1:02:36 "Check the DNA for your little ugly ass babies."

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Oh my goodness. Ooh.

Willie D 1:02:40 And, uh, and it broke him. He, it, it broke him.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 Well, most trolls have private accounts. If you see, if you ever do pay attention-

Willie D 1:02:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 ... to comments, if you go into their accounts, most of them block everybody.

Willie D 1:02:52 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 You can't look at their pictures 'cause they know that you're out there causing shit- (laughs) ... and it's gonna come blow back onto them. They're cowards.

Willie D 1:02:58 Yeah, most of them that don't have a picture, they have, like, avatars and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 1:03:03 You know, they have the cartoons and a picture of a car or something.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Yeah.

Willie D 1:03:07 A brick. Uh, I don't, I don't even respond to those type of people most of the time. I just block them. I just immediately block them.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 (laughs)

Willie D 1:03:16 Because I don't feel like it's cool-

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 It's not fair game.

Willie D 1:03:20 It's not. It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 No.

Willie D 1:03:21 ... I'm putting myself out there.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Right, 100%.

Willie D 1:03:23 You know who I am, you see me.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 Yeah.

Willie D 1:03:25 You know where I be.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 You are-

Willie D 1:03:26 But you hiding and you low-key.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 You are dialed up right now. It's hilarious-

Willie D 1:03:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 (laughs) ... what you... You see, you immediately have ramped up-

Willie D 1:03:34 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 ... when you started talking about trolls. You could see, you- Yeah.

Willie D 1:03:36 I, did I do that?

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Yes. Yeah.

Willie D 1:03:38 Okay, all right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Intense. It got very intense.

Willie D 1:03:41 Okay, so it's... Okay, all right, all right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 You enjoy it.

Willie D 1:03:42 Maybe it's real.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 Oh, it's real.

Willie D 1:03:43 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 It's interesting that that guy came up, that that guy came up to you. That's... That... Like, he... Probably felt bad. Yeah. Probably felt bad for being a dick. Yeah, I wonder why he- People, people see a famous person like you and they don't think you're a real person. They feel like they get a free shot at... Like, they could just say something and nothing's gonna happen to them, you know?

Willie D 1:04:01 Th- this what people don't understand, Joe. I love people for real. Just, just on the strength of human beings. I love people. I love who love me, but I hate who hate me.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Mm.

Willie D 1:04:19 It's simple. I'm not the religious dude or God forgive, turn the other cheek. No.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 (laughs)

Willie D 1:04:25 That is not me. That is not me. It's never gonna be me.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 (laughs)

Willie D 1:04:29 And I'm fine with that.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 (laughs)

Willie D 1:04:31 People say, "Well, you should forgive for yourself." Uh, how about getting some vengeance for myself?

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 (laughs)

Willie D 1:04:38 It makes me feel better. That's what makes me feel good. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 Well, it clearly doesn't bother you.

Willie D 1:04:45 No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 You know what I mean? You seem to be enjoying it. It's everybody has a different mental constitution. I don't want them in my head, you know? I have too much time. I have too many things going on.

Willie D 1:04:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 That's how I look at it. But I used to engage with people all the time.

Willie D 1:04:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 I used to, I used to treat it like writing exercises. I would say, "Well, let me treat this dude like he's a heckler, you know? And just fuck him up-"

Willie D 1:05:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 "... like a heckler." But then after a while, I'm like, "Well, I don't... This is robbing me of my time." That's how I look at it.

Willie D 1:05:10 But when they come to your platform, you have the ultimate power. It's like having the mic and being a comic. You know how-

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Yeah.

Willie D 1:05:15 ... that go.

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Yeah.

Willie D 1:05:15 You got the mic.

Joe Rogan 1:05:16 Yeah.

Willie D 1:05:17 The dude in the audience has no chance of winning.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Right.

Willie D 1:05:21 No matter what he says, I mean, you get to drown him out. You got the mic.

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 Yes.

Willie D 1:05:25 So when somebody comes onto your social media account, you have the mic. They cannot win.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 I understand.

Willie D 1:05:35 I'm looking forward to it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 (laughs)

Willie D 1:05:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 Well, he basically threw- Pretty much. ... the bat signal out for trolls. Yeah. (laughs)

Willie D 1:05:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 They're all gonna come swarming towards Willie D's page now.

Willie D 1:05:44 No, no. No, they're not. You know why they're not? Because they don't... Trolls are bullies.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Yeah.

Willie D 1:05:50 They're just like any typical bully. You have to bully bullies. Bullies don't like to be bullied. They don't like hard fights.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 Yeah.

Willie D 1:06:00 They like easy fights.

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Right.

Willie D 1:06:02 They... Bullies only strike when they have a clear-cut advantage.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Right.

Willie D 1:06:06 Size, numbers, weaponry.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 Yeah.

Willie D 1:06:10 And when they think that they have someone who is afraid, it's the only time they strike. You have to understand the psyche of a bully. You know how I understand that? I used to be one.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 Mm.

Willie D 1:06:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 Yeah. (laughs)

Willie D 1:06:26 I used to be a bully. I was a bully till seventh grade, but I backed up off of it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 When did you start boxing? What year?

Willie D 1:06:36 I was 11, so whatever that was.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 That's right around that.

Willie D 1:06:39 77?

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 That's right around seventh grade.

Willie D 1:06:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Yeah.

Willie D 1:06:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 So that's when you probably figured... That's... Listen, I was an angry fucking kid until I started doing martial arts, and that was around 14. You know, once you, once you get to figure out how to get your aggression out, and also realize you get humbled, you know? Get your ass kicked a bunch of times.

Willie D 1:06:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 You get humbled and, and you realize, like, there is no reason to be angry for no reason.

Willie D 1:07:04 Right. And you understand that... It's, it's almost like you understand that you're gonna have conflict at some point.

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 Mm-hmm.

Willie D 1:07:15 ... when you do, you just reserve all your energy for that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Mm. Yeah. Don't waste it.

Willie D 1:07:20 You don't waste your energy. You don't waste your resources.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah.

Willie D 1:07:23 You just, you know... It's, it's a such thing as, like, being calculative and picking your battles, right?

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 Yeah.

Willie D 1:07:30 And so, that's what you do. It's like when you box, you don't have anything to prove. Everybody knows you box, everybody know you whoop ass. That's what you do for a living, you whoop ass. You know, that's what you do.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Yeah.

Willie D 1:07:40 So everybody knows, so you have nothing to prove. And so, you wanna save your energy. You got a fight coming up. You don't wanna mess your hands up-

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Right.

Willie D 1:07:50 ... you don't wanna mess your knuckles up. You know, you don't wanna, you know... You don't even wanna get yourself injured in no kind of way. You don't want to get yourself in trouble.

Joe Rogan 1:07:57 Plus, you're tired.

Willie D 1:07:58 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 You're tired from training all the time.

Willie D 1:07:59 Yeah. Well, but you can muster up the energy-

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Oh, yeah.

Willie D 1:08:01 ... to knock people out if you have to.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 Oh, yeah.

Willie D 1:08:03 But the point is, when you are... when you, when you, when you fight, you know, like, like my hands are still registered. I know what I can do with my hands. I know that I can kill somebody. And so, the liability is much greater for me than anybody... uh, some regular dude, just couple of regular dudes in the streets fighting. It's, it's just a regular fight.

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 Yeah.

Willie D 1:08:29 But if, if I fight-

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Right.

Willie D 1:08:32 ... they gonna... The prosecutor would just, "Aren't your hands registered-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 (laughs)

Willie D 1:08:38 "... Mr. Dennis?" (laughs) And like, "And you knew your hands was registered." "Can you-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 Do you, when... Do you actually have to go somewhere to register your hands?

Willie D 1:08:44 "Can you, can you hold your hands up?" "Can you, can you hold your hands..." Well, they do it when you, uh, when you, when you, when you fight. When you-

Joe Rogan 1:08:50 So when you register to box?

Willie D 1:08:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 So then-

Willie D 1:08:52 When you register for a fight, like, like pro fighting.

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 Right.

Willie D 1:08:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 So then they say, "Okay, you are a professional fighter, you have a higher-"

Willie D 1:08:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 "... liability if you enter into some sort of a conflict or whatever."

Willie D 1:09:02 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Yeah. Well, if you beat somebody up, for sure they're gonna go on the internet. (laughs)

Willie D 1:09:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 They're gonna go, "Look at this."

Willie D 1:09:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 "This fucking... This ain't fair."

Willie D 1:09:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:11 Yeah, it's... There's so many people out there that could benefit from learning how to fight. And there's this funny thing that I always tell people, "The best way to get rid of bullies is to teach bullies how to fight." Like, the, the, the problem with most bullies is they're, they're trying to boost up their own confidence by intimidating and diminishing other people.

Willie D 1:09:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 But it's really, they're really lacking confidence. If you taught them how to fight, they would abandon all that shit.

Willie D 1:09:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 The, the baddest motherfuckers are very rarely bullies. Occasionally. Occasionally, you got some real tough dudes that just enjoy hurting people-

Willie D 1:09:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:41 ... because they've been hurt so much in their life, like, no matter what, even just learning how to fight is not enough to eliminate whatever bullshit they have rolling around in their head.

Willie D 1:09:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 Speaking of fighting, speaking of old dudes fighting, Mike Tyson-

Willie D 1:09:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 ... and Roy Jones Jr. this weekend. What do you think of that?

Willie D 1:09:59 Ooh. Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 Crazy, right?

Willie D 1:10:01 Yeah. I think it's... I think he, um... Not too crazy to me, you know, 'cause I know they're fighters and, you know, they... (sighs) A fighter is... As, as long as a fighter knows that people wanna watch, they'll get in the ring if the money is right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Yeah.

Willie D 1:10:19 And-

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 But Roy fought as recently as two years ago.

Willie D 1:10:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 Yeah.

Willie D 1:10:23 Yeah, but that's still, it's still ring rust.

Joe Rogan 1:10:26 Yeah.

Willie D 1:10:26 Not as much as Tyson-

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 Right.

Willie D 1:10:28 ... but still ring rust. And so, it's gonna be interesting, man, because both guys are, like, not just champions, but they are Hall of Fame champions. Most people that I've heard talk, say Roy is gonna get ran through. I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. I think it's gonna boil down to which one of them are more prepared.

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 Yeah.

Willie D 1:10:55 That's what I think is gonna happen. It's gonna come down to who's more prepared.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 Well, they are... They definitely have different sizes. You know, Roy's a, he's a legend. They're both legends, but Roy, champion at 168 pounds, champion at 175, beat Ruiz at... He was about 200 when he won the heavyweight title.

Willie D 1:11:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:11:14 But he was never really, like, a big guy.

Willie D 1:11:16 He's not, he's not a natural heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 Right. Tyson's a tank.

Willie D 1:11:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 He's a, physically is a different person. And I don't like that they're switching it to two-minute rounds. That, that, that drives me crazy.

Willie D 1:11:26 I don't like it. But how many rounds is it?

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Eight. Eight two-minute rounds.

Willie D 1:11:29 Well, well, that just means more action.

Joe Rogan 1:11:33 Yeah. It does.

Willie D 1:11:34 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:11:34 But, but a guy like Roy, and one of the things that Roy said is that, uh, he wants to drag Tyson out. Like, he's like, "If Tyson's gonna beat me-"

Willie D 1:11:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:43 "... he's gonna beat me quick."

Willie D 1:11:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 He's like, "I want this fight to go..." He goes, "I wanna get him tired." And he goes, "And I have much more of a chance of getting him tired if he's fighting three-minute rounds." He's like, "We're grown men." And I guess the, the, the WBC was pointing to, uh, Julio Cesar Chavez, uh, I think had a, uh, a, a boxing exhibition recently. I think it was Chavez. It was some, some legend that was retired that had a boxing exhibition recently and he was real tired. And their thought was, "You know what? Instead of letting them get this tired, let's make them just fight shorter rounds."

Willie D 1:12:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:18 But Roy's like, "Well, this is like what women fight, the women fight two-minute rounds," so it got-

Willie D 1:12:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:23 Shit got sexual. (laughs)

Willie D 1:12:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:24 Or sexist. You know? But he didn't... I don't think Tyson wanted two-minute rounds either.

Willie D 1:12:31 Yeah, it would have been nice if... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 What's up, Jim? There's some rules. Have you seen the rules for the fight? Well, there's no judges and there's no, no decision. Celebrity judges this time. Celebrity judges? What kind of celebrities? They haven't announced that yet. Oh, Jesus. And there's no winner gonna be announced. Well, there's gonna be a winner if, uh, Mike Tyson connects on Roy's face or if Roy connects- Any cut and it's a fight. ... on Mike Tyson's face and knocks him out. Any cut? Any cut? It says bad... If it... Bad cut, it says, but... (sighs) Get the fuck out of here with that. It should be a boxing match. These are legends. They both get a belt when it's over. Oh, no, no. We can't have participation trophies. That's what it is. (laughs) But what happens if someone gets knocked out? There's no winner. What if Tyso- Listen, if- (laughs) ... if Tyson knocks him out, he wins. If Roy knocks Tyson out, he wins. This is, this is nonsense. These guy... Listen, I think to get it sanctioned in California, they had to agree to some stupid shit. I guarantee you, when that, "Ding," when that bell goes off, that is going to be a fucking fight. Mike Tyson is not fighting-

Willie D 1:13:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 ... any exhibitions. He's gonna come bobbing and weaving, s- swinging death with each hand, and Roy Jones Jr. is gonna be moving and throwing that nasty left hook. And let the best man win, but that is gonna be a fight. I, I-

Willie D 1:13:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:40 ... cannot imagine those two legends are just gonna move around.Like, if you watch Roy Jones Jr. hit the pads ... Have you seen him hit the pads lately? He looks fucking fantastic. He's fast as shit. His hands look amazing. Mike looks amazing. I mean, both of them look like they're taking this very seriously. I can't imagine a world where someone doesn't connect and some crazy shit doesn't happen.

Willie D 1:14:04 Yeah. Um ... Man, this is one of those things, man. I gotta see it.

Joe Rogan 1:14:09 Yes! That's what I'm saying. Yeah, this one's gonna be amazing.

Willie D 1:14:11 I just gotta ... I, I gotta see this, man.

Joe Rogan 1:14:12 Well, you were gonna go, right?

Willie D 1:14:14 Yeah, I ha- yeah, I was gonna go, man.

Joe Rogan 1:14:15 I was gonna go, too.

Willie D 1:14:16 And then, you know, they said there won't be any, uh, people allowed-

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 Audience members.

Willie D 1:14:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:21 Yeah.

Willie D 1:14:21 And then I was gonna, you know, go down there for the weigh-in and everything, but-

Joe Rogan 1:14:24 Want to hear something crazy?

Willie D 1:14:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 The, the distance that we are apart from each other on this table, I was gonna make it closer because this new studio's a little more compact. But I had Mike in on, at the last podcast. Mike's been on twice. Mm-hmm. He was on once, about 11 months ago, and when he was on 11 months ago, he said he couldn't even work out. He goes, "If I work out, my ego will get ignited and then I'll, I'll ... I just want to destroy again. I don't want to be the Mike Tyson of old." He says, "I don't want to have nothing to do with that. That's my past. I'm done." Wow. Then he start- I think his wife called him fat and he started working out. And he goes, "I started out with, like, 15 minutes on the treadmill and next thing you know, I'm doing two hours." (laughs) So he's doing- (laughs)

Willie D 1:15:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:04 ... two hours on the treadmill. He gets in tremendous shape and then someone says, you know, "Would you, would you box?" He says, "Aw, I'm not, I'm not boxing anybody." And then they go, "What about for $30 million?" He goes ... What? 30 million? Yeah. And so he dec- is this today? Is that what they're each getting?

Willie D 1:15:20 No, it's his shirt, I-

Joe Rogan 1:15:21 Jack. Oh, wow.

Willie D 1:15:22 Said he lost almost 100 pounds.

Joe Rogan 1:15:24 That's incredible. How did he- Yeah, he was probably pushing 300 pounds at one point. Not when I saw him. Not 11 months ago, he wasn't. No, not ... Probably overall. No, he was- Oh, he looks ... But 11 months ago, he was probably about, like, maybe 250 or something like that, so he definitely lost about 30 pounds. But ... So the distance between us is because he was so amped up. It was like a different human being. Mm-hmm. The first time, we were smoking weed, he's relaxed. (laughs) You know, he's got Tyson Ranch now. He's selling his own weed. By the way, strong as shit. (laughs) His weed is like his punches. They're no fucking joke. (laughs) So first, first podcast we did, we got barbecued, we had a great time. I'm like, "Holy shit, I'm getting high with Mike Tyson." Second podcast we did, he was so intense and we were talking about, like, great conquerors and shit, he was talking about all these different things and I'm like, "I'm nervous in the room with him." (laughs) Like, he's so amped up. Like, his forearms, you could s- (gasps) . His whole body changed. Like, he's, he's like he's got golf balls under this, this forearm muscle. He had just been training and you could tell. He's, he's like Mike Tyson of old. His mindset, whether or not he's physically capable of it, his mindset is like the Mike Tyson of old. It was legitimately nervous to be in the room with him, 'cause I was just like, "Wow." Like, he's, he's ready. He's ready to go right now and I'm like, "You know what? I'm gonna make my table a little wider." (laughs)

Willie D 1:16:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 Because if I was (laughs) , if I was, like, if I was even closer to him than this, 'cause this is the exact distance of the old table. (laughs) But the new table's, like, I'm gonna make it about, like, a foot closer. But if I was a foot closer to Mike like this, I'd probably be nervous. (laughs) I'd be more nervous. So it wasn't COVID or anything. (laughs) It was actual- No, it was, it was Mike Tyson. (laughs) He was so intense. I'm like, "In order for me to do my best job of, uh-" (laughs) "... communicating with people, if, in, in case I'm across from some, you know, like, amped up killer like Mike Tyson." (laughs) You know, you just natu- I mean, it's not like a thing where he's gonna hurt me, but you, you get nervous. I mean, he, he ... And Jamie said it best after he left. You were like, "That is a totally different person."

Willie D 1:17:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:34 Yeah. I was nervous. You were nervous, too? (laughs) I wasn't that close. I know, man. He's amped up.

Willie D 1:17:39 I'm trying to find this video.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 See if you can, like, lock the room with him.

Willie D 1:17:41 I'm trying to, I'm trying to surprise you with this video, man, if I can find it. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:17:45 Is it of him?

Willie D 1:17:46 No, no, no. This is something else.

Joe Rogan 1:17:47 He's, uh- Might have to run out and get it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Mike, thank you very much.

Willie D 1:17:51 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:17:52 N- next time I'll have you come in by yourself. I, I'd, I'd love to see it then. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Willie D 1:17:55 Well, we gonna do dinner, uh, six o-

Joe Rogan 1:17:56 Oh, yeah.

Willie D 1:17:57 Six o'clock.

Joe Rogan 1:17:57 Okay. Beautiful. Yeah, well, I'll see, I'll see y'all later, yeah.

Willie D 1:17:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:59 Awesome. Well, thank you, Mike.

Willie D 1:18:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:00 Thank you, man.

Willie D 1:18:01 All right, Mike.

Joe Rogan 1:18:01 All right. Mike Judge, ladies and gentlemen. Mike Judge. But yeah, so that's, that's the reason why this, this table is so far apart. I'm interested, 'cause you know Evander Holyfield wants to fight him, too. And Evander Holyfield has been steady training ever since Mike decided to come out of retirement. And I've been watching that. I've been paying attention to E- Evander's social media.

Willie D 1:18:23 I think th- that this is going to awaken a lot of sleeping giants.

Joe Rogan 1:18:28 Yeah.

Willie D 1:18:29 Like, I can see ... 'Cause H- Holyfield was s- supposed to fight him the first time.

Joe Rogan 1:18:35 Really?

Willie D 1:18:36 Initially this, this was supposed to be a Holyfield/Mike Tyson thing, I believe.

Joe Rogan 1:18:41 (clicks tongue) Well, th- Mike said they offered him a bunch of different people, but he didn't say Holyfield. He said they offered him Bob Sapp-

Willie D 1:18:47 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:18:48 ... at one point in time, and then there was a few different ... And then Shannon the Cannon was trying to get in on it. You know, Shannon was trying to ... Like, a lot of people don't want to fight Shannon.

Willie D 1:18:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:57 Um, he's got a real hard time getting fights, which is unfortunate 'cause, uh, he ... You know, Shannon's still got talent and he's been wanting to fight people for quite a while now. But, you know, with this ... They're all ... You know, it's, it's this weird situation where I feel like a person should be able to do whatever they wanna do. You know? If y- if people can go bungee jumping, people can ride bulls, people can do all sorts of crazy shit. Mm-hmm. Like, why are we trying to stop legends from fighting?

Willie D 1:19:25 We don't want the liability.

Joe Rogan 1:19:26 Yeah.

Willie D 1:19:27 You know, somebody go out there and get hurt, you know, first thing everybody gonna s- everybody gonna look for somebody to blame. And the family gonna be like, "You should've never let him get out there." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19:38 (laughs) Man.

Willie D 1:19:38 $100 million WBA, WBC, IBF, whoever's h- uh, who's s- who sanctioning this?

Joe Rogan 1:19:43 I think it's WBC.

Willie D 1:19:45 WBC.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 They have a weird belt. What is the belt called? It's like-... some, some weird name to the belt. Some legends or something like that, or something.

Willie D 1:19:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:57 I just, I don't like the idea of both guys getting a belt. That seems ridiculous.

Willie D 1:20:01 No, no, that's, that's not a good idea.

Joe Rogan 1:20:02 Both guys should get a paycheck, but there should be a winner.

Willie D 1:20:05 Yeah.

Guest 1:20:05 Frontline heavyweight title.

Joe Rogan 1:20:06 The frontline-

Guest 1:20:07 I'm all about that.

Joe Rogan 1:20:07 ... heavyweight title. Well, it will be interesting if they decide to do a legends tour, 'cause it's one of the things that Mike came on to talk about. He wanted to have legends play basketball, legends play baseball, legends like, you know, guys who you grew up watching and they still wanna do it, they still wanna compete. And maybe they can't compete with young guys, but you could still watch them compete against guys of their era.

Willie D 1:20:28 Yeah, that would be like, uh, kinda like what Ice Cube is doing with, uh, the Big3, the basketball league.

Joe Rogan 1:20:35 Yes.

Willie D 1:20:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:36 Yes. Very similar. Very similar. Yeah.

Willie D 1:20:39 He get, he get the right, right kinda guys, I mean, yeah, people would watch that.

Joe Rogan 1:20:43 Yeah.

Willie D 1:20:43 But the thing about it is th- the only difference is that you go play basketball, maybe you have a sore back or y- your knee's, uh, uh, a little swollen or whatever, you go in there and get in that ring, it, you might not come out.

Joe Rogan 1:20:55 Yes. That's true.

Willie D 1:20:56 That's true. That boxing is something-

Joe Rogan 1:20:58 That's true.

Willie D 1:20:58 ... that's a total different beast, so. I can see somebody getting hurt, though.

Joe Rogan 1:21:03 100%. I think someone's gonna get hurt.

Willie D 1:21:05 Somebody will be hurt.

Joe Rogan 1:21:06 I think someone's gonna get hurt. I think both of them know someone's gonna get hurt, you know. And, uh, I think they're okay with that. You know, Roy said on the show that if he dies boxing, he'll be happy. He said, "If that's how I die," he goes, "I'm a warrior. If, if that is how I die," he goes, "that's what I love to do."

Willie D 1:21:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:21:25 "If that's how I die, I'll, I'll die happy."

Willie D 1:21:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:28 That is what he said on the podcast and he didn't say it to like, to be braggadocious or to be full of bluster.

Willie D 1:21:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:21:35 He was, he was sincere. I mean-

Willie D 1:21:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:37 ... he's a multiple division world champion legend who will go down in history as without a doubt one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Willie D 1:21:45 Yeah. Yeah, I think if you can go on your terms, man, that's the way to go, like, however-

Joe Rogan 1:21:50 We all go.

Willie D 1:21:50 ... however that is.

Joe Rogan 1:21:51 Yeah. We all go. And that's how his, his perspective was. He's like, "We all die. If, if he dies that way, then so be it." Do you have two phones?

Willie D 1:22:00 I respect that.

Joe Rogan 1:22:01 Is that my-

Willie D 1:22:01 No.

Joe Rogan 1:22:02 Whose phone is that?

Willie D 1:22:02 No, this is, this is Mack Oler's phone.

Joe Rogan 1:22:04 Oh. (laughs)

Willie D 1:22:05 (laughs) I think, uh, he's probably looking for it.

Joe Rogan 1:22:09 (laughs)

Willie D 1:22:10 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:10 I was confused. Yeah, I hope no one gets hurt. I hope no one dies, obviously.

Willie D 1:22:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 But, uh, I feel like they should have the right to