Joe Rogan Experience #1584 - Todd White

Todd White 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hey, buddy.

Todd White 0:15 Hello, Tom Wade. How are you, my friend?

Joe Rogan 0:17 What's up, buddy? Dude, you're one of the reasons why I'm here.

Todd White 0:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:19 I remember you told me multiple years ago, like when... How many years ago did you move here?

Todd White 0:23 I moved here seven years ago.

Joe Rogan 0:25 And you were telling me how fucking great it is. I remember running into you, you're like, "Dude, it's fucking great. I love it." I'm like, "Man, I don't know."

Todd White 0:31 You said, "My wife would never move there."

Joe Rogan 0:34 (laughs)

Todd White 0:34 That's what you said. We were at, we were at-

Joe Rogan 0:36 Yeah.

Todd White 0:36 ... the Commons at Marmalade.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Yeah, Calabasas.

Todd White 0:38 Yeah, in Calabasas.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, dude, I've known you for what, fucking 20 years?

Todd White 0:43 Yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 0:43 Um, I probably met you in, like, 2000-ish or something like that. Uh, maybe before.

Todd White 0:49 I, I... The day you walked into Jean Jacques's, I was on the mat and we were rolling and you came walking in. And I had... I was a fan of your first show (laughs) you ever did. And I saw you and I go, "Oh, shit, that's Joe Rogan." And my friend says, uh, "Who's that? Who's that?" I go, "He's on a show. He's on News Radio." And, uh, he goes, "Oh, I don't know who that is." And I go, "Yeah, he's the pl- He's the, uh-"

Joe Rogan 1:08 Handyman.

Todd White 1:09 Handyman. He's a mechanic. He's always running around with his toolbox. And he goes, "I don't know who he is." And I go, "Okay, well..." And then that was the first time I ever saw you and you came in.

Joe Rogan 1:16 That's like '98, dude.

Todd White 1:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17 I think it's like '98.

Todd White 1:18 That was about, that was about... Yeah, I was a white belt and...

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah. John Jackpot and Tarzana.

Todd White 1:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah.

Todd White 1:23 I saw... I saw the... Uh, I was working at, uh, Warner Brothers, uh, Tiny Toon Adventures and I was a, I was a... I was a PA, production assistant at that time. It was the first job I ever had in LA and that guy says, uh, "Hey, we're gonna have a party tonight. We're gonna watch these fights. They're like cockfights. Come on over and let's watch them." And I, I went over to his house and I was literally hypnotized watching Royce Gracie do what he did. I couldn't believe it. Everybody else was talking-

Joe Rogan 1:49 So this was, like, '93?

Todd White 1:50 (clears throat) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51 Their early, their first days of UFC?

Todd White 1:52 The very first. The first UFC. It was the first one.

Joe Rogan 1:55 Wow, so you, you watched the first one live?

Todd White 1:58 I s- Yeah. I saw it at, at a party that I was not supposed to be at and nobody else was paying attention to this. It was just on. It was, like, two other guys watching it and, uh, and I'm watching this going, "Oh, I gotta do that." Like-

Joe Rogan 2:10 (laughs)

Todd White 2:10 It, it was speaking to me in a way I've never... You know, like art speaks to me and I was watching it and... And the next day, I, uh, find Torrance, Gracie Academy, because they kept saying Torrance Gracie and I knew where Torrance was so I, I, I was living in S- Studio City in the Valley. I drove, I had a Honda Prelude, I drove all the way on the 405, the worst freeway in the world, and it took me about three hours to get down there on a Saturday morning. And I walked into that place and it was... They were done, but I could smell all that sweat and humidity and nastiness and I was like, "Oh, God, this is great."

Joe Rogan 2:42 (laughs)

Todd White 2:42 And I, I walked in and, and they were very nice to me, but there was, like, these dudes and they looked so intimidating and they were just ripped up and clawed up and dripping wet and... This wasn't the pretty days where everybody has rash guards and designer gis.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah.

Todd White 2:54 This was, like, Crugon's gis.

Joe Rogan 2:57 Yep.

Todd White 2:57 They were yellowed and nasty smelling and, and no... There was no... There was chest hair in your mouth.

Joe Rogan 3:04 I remember Crugon's.

Todd White 3:05 And, uh, and, and they came walking out and I was just, like, I felt... Man, I felt like a little bitch.

Joe Rogan 3:09 (laughs)

Todd White 3:09 I was just looking at them going like, "I wanna be you." And he goes, uh, "Where are you from," you know, and I go, "Oh, the Valley." "The Valley? This is too far, my friend." And he goes, uh, "My cousin Jean Jacques is in the Valley. The Machados go there." And, uh, I was kind of, like, struck in awe by everything, right? So I thought, "Okay, I'll go to the Valley," you know. And there was no internet. U- Understand, there's no internet. You can't just Google. So I got the Thomas guide out and I started looking around and, and I would ask people and... And so nobody knew the answer to this because remember, as you know, in the early days, Brazilian jiu-jitsu was like, "Oh, you do that karate stuff?"

Joe Rogan 3:44 Yeah.

Todd White 3:45 And so I, uh, I got on my mountain bike. I was a heavy mountain biker then, and I got on my bike and I was in Studio City and I decided to ride Ventura Boulevard. And I'm gonna look at every shop on Ventura Boulevard. And I was driving, I got all the way down to Encino and, uh, and was just... And I see this jiu-jitsu, right? And I go, "Oh, that's it." I, I walk in and this little kind of chubby round guy comes walking up and he's tucked into his gi and he goes, uh, "Can I help you?" And I go, "I'm looking to do a... I'm looking to do that ground fighting stuff." And he goes, "Yeah, we do that here." And I go, "Okay." You know, "Sign up." And so I signed up and I'm there a week and I'm there every day and not once are we on the ground. We're doing this stand up, small circle stuff and, like... And I'm looking at my classmates and they're all, like, horribly out of shape and, like, they can barely move and I'm thinking, "God, this isn't what I saw," you know?

Joe Rogan 4:37 What was the place?

Todd White 4:38 It was, like, Mushin Ryu Jiu-Jitsu, right?

Joe Rogan 4:40 Oh.

Todd White 4:40 But I was so out of my head trying to find it and so I'm there a week and he's like, "Hey, congratulations, you get a belt." And I'm like, "I hardly know anything." And so he gives me this belt and I'm working out with this one guy and he says, "Hey, I think what you want is the Machados." And I was like, "Where am I?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:58 (laughs)

Todd White 4:58 He goes, "This isn't it, dude." (laughs) And I'm like, "In the wrong movie." And so-

Joe Rogan 5:03 That's hilarious.

Todd White 5:03 ... I go, "Okay," uh, he goes, "That's down the road, dude, like four stores, four shops." Four shops short, right? So I literally... At the class, I'm like hurrying up and I'm like, "Ah, I gotta go." And I walk down there and I see them and it wa-... This is on Ventura Boulevard. He wasn't at his place in, in Tarzana yet. He was getting ready to move that week. And I walk in and it was a place as big as this studio. I'm not kidding. And he goes, you know... Jean Jacques spoke very poor English back then and he was like, "Oh, hello. Hello." And I'm like, "Uh, sign. I sign up now." You know? And so I signed up and I started going to him, but I had made like two friends. See, when I was in LA I didn't have any friends because I was there to work and become my goal and so, uh, I was still talking to these guys and still going to the other place and the time worked out where he was early and I would leave and go next door to Jean Jacques, right? So I was there about another week and we're just doing drills at Jean Jacques. We're doing armbar drills over and over again, from our back, from open guard drills.... and I would go home and I would draw it in my book. I had a sketchbook of everything, so everything we learned, I would draw it and I would... You know, I was an animator for a long time, so I could animate the movements and I could see in rolling where we would end up. So, if we start here and I did this, this, and this, I knew we would end up over here in this position. In my mind, it was easy 'cause I had animated.

Joe Rogan 6:22 Hmm.

Todd White 6:22 So, I would see rolling like cartoons, and they would just kinda roll into it.

Joe Rogan 6:25 Oh.

Todd White 6:26 And so it came very... I wasn't a wrestler, but it came pretty natural to me to m- the movements, right? And so, um, so a week later, the guy at the Mushinryu Jujitsu place was telling me, "Oh, you gotta do this 'cause..." and I go, "But if you did that, you would get stuck in an arm bar." 'Cause he's having me like, choke or like, reach up. And he goes-

Joe Rogan 6:47 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 6:47 ... "No, you can't get an arm bar from there."

Joe Rogan 6:50 (laughs)

Todd White 6:50 And I go, "I think, I think you can." He's like, "You're not gonna do it." And so I, I go, "Well, watch." And he got in my guard, and he like, he did his little chest slap thing, you know, this little like... (laughs) and, and he like stuck his arm out-

Joe Rogan 7:03 Where is the little chest slap?

Todd White 7:04 Yeah, you know how the, they like get ready to fight and they're like, you know, they do their poses.

Joe Rogan 7:09 Oh, no. (laughs)

Todd White 7:09 And he did that in my guard. And it was weird, and everybody's watching, right?

Joe Rogan 7:15 Oh.

Todd White 7:15 And they're standing there watching the instructor tell me I didn't know what I was doing, and he did that and he stuck his arm out, and I grabbed his arm and I pulled it in, and I threw my legs over his face and I arm barred him.

Joe Rogan 7:24 (laughs)

Todd White 7:25 And he got real pissed off, and he goes... He got up and he was really perturbed and he goes, "That wouldn't work in real time. That only worked 'cause I was letting you get there." And I, and I was scared, and I go, "I think it would work, man."

Joe Rogan 7:38 (laughs)

Todd White 7:38 "I think it would work." And remember, I had two friends now, right? My two guy friends, right?

Joe Rogan 7:43 Right. "I think it would work." (laughs)

Todd White 7:44 And they were going, and I hear one of 'em go, "Oh no, it worked." (laughs) And then I'm looking around, and, and he's getting kinda pissed. I mean, he's a short guy, but he was really stock. And he goes, uh, he goes, "Look, I'm tired of hearing about this Brazilian Jujitsu. So, I tell you what. You use your Jujitsu..." Which, by the way, I had had like two weeks of training. Now, granted, I was there every day with Jean-Jacques, like, doing drills. So, you know if you got one movement that you do 100 times, you're gonna have an inkling-

Joe Rogan 8:12 Right.

Todd White 8:12 ... of how to do it.

Joe Rogan 8:13 What year is this?

Todd White 8:14 Bro... (sighs) so, you're talking about-

Joe Rogan 8:17 '94?

Todd White 8:18 ... right after the first UFC, maybe like-

Joe Rogan 8:20 '93?

Todd White 8:20 ... two months after the first UFC.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Oh, so then '93.

Todd White 8:23 Yeah, '93.

Joe Rogan 8:24 Damn.

Todd White 8:24 And so-

Joe Rogan 8:24 You were ahead of the curve.

Todd White 8:25 So, I'm sitting there and I go, "Okay, uh, I think, uh, I think it'll work, dude." Now, I don't know anything about standing, right?

Joe Rogan 8:32 Right.

Todd White 8:32 So, he gets up and he goes, "Okay, I'm gonna attack you, and you attack me." And I'm like, "I don't know how to attack you."

Joe Rogan 8:38 (laughs)

Todd White 8:39 So, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, "Ready." And like, all of a sudden I'm in a video game (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 8:44 Oh, no.

Todd White 8:44 ... and I'm standing there. So, what do I do? I copy what I saw Royce Gracie do, I stick my arms up like the Karate Kid, and I stick my foot in front, and he fucking starts like, like coming at me with his elbows and swinging, and he looks like a little machine. And I just took my foot and kicked him in the front leg. His leg goes down, he lands on me, we fall into the guard. He starts hitting me with his elbow on the top of the head, right? Like, I grabbed him, I clenched him, I squeezed him really tight, mostly so I didn't get punched in the face 'cause I was afraid, and, and I stuck my head in his chest, and he's hitting me on the top of the head and I'm like... And that heat comes up your back from your butthole to your neck, and you go, "You motherfucker."

Joe Rogan 9:23 (laughs)

Todd White 9:23 "You're hitting me now?" And I go, "Okay, all right, all right. Now we're in a new league. Now I'm, you're not my friend. Now you're fighting me." And I literally just kinda monkey, shimmied up his high guard and I just threw him in an arm bar, and I cranked as hard as I could on that arm, and he screams, "Okay."

Joe Rogan 9:41 Wow.

Todd White 9:41 And I get up, right? And I'm like, you got that blood rush. I'm like, hair messed up.

Joe Rogan 9:47 (laughs)

Todd White 9:48 I'm like, "You motherfucker. Okay."

Joe Rogan 9:51 (laughs)

Todd White 9:51 And I, I... (laughs) And I grab my bag, I grab my bag, my little fucking goofy bag. I grab it, and I walk out, right? I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm, I'm like, flustered. I walk out and the two dudes come running out after me. They're like, "Bro, bro, I'm coming with you. Where are you going?"

Joe Rogan 10:07 (laughs)

Todd White 10:07 "Where's that school at?" And they came and they fucking trained all the way to purple belt, both those guys.

Joe Rogan 10:12 Who are the guys?

Todd White 10:13 It was Jim Lahan, the, the wood carpenter guy, and a guy named Seth. I, I don't even remember his last name.

Joe Rogan 10:17 Wow.

Todd White 10:18 They both trained all the way through purple before they kind of faded away.

Joe Rogan 10:21 Hmm.

Todd White 10:22 And, uh, and-

Joe Rogan 10:22 Man, you fade away when you're at purple, that's such a shame.

Todd White 10:25 That, I-

Joe Rogan 10:25 You're so close.

Todd White 10:25 As an instructor now, it crushes me when I give a blue belt to someone, and then I see them fade. And I'm thinking-

Joe Rogan 10:31 Hmm.

Todd White 10:31 ... "God, dude, you got past-"

Joe Rogan 10:33 The hardest part.

Todd White 10:33 ... "You're, you're a color."

Joe Rogan 10:34 Yeah.

Todd White 10:35 The greatest belt you can get is blue.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Yeah.

Todd White 10:37 I say that s- to this day, and I'm a fourth black. Blue because you're a color.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Yeah.

Todd White 10:41 You're not the white anymore. You're in the club. You're in.

Joe Rogan 10:45 Dude, the day Jean-Jacques gave me a blue belt was like one of the greatest days of my life. The day Jean-Jacques gave me my purple belt, I was like, "Oh my God, I'm close. I'm so close to brown."

Todd White 10:57 Purple, purple's a danger belt.

Joe Rogan 10:58 P- purple belts, uh, tap people.

Todd White 11:00 So-

Joe Rogan 11:00 I remember seeing a lot of purple belts that could tap brown belts.

Todd White 11:03 Oh, yeah. Okay, so-

Joe Rogan 11:04 Purple belts that were dangerous. They had like-

Todd White 11:05 There, there's-

Joe Rogan 11:05 ... one really good move.

Todd White 11:06 Oh, yeah. Here's my take on purples. They're just crazy enough to try anything-

Joe Rogan 11:10 (laughs)

Todd White 11:11 ... and they're not worried about getting got. Like-

Joe Rogan 11:12 Especially those purple belts that train every day.

Todd White 11:14 That's obscene.

Joe Rogan 11:15 Those psycho purple belts.

Todd White 11:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Yeah.

Todd White 11:17 Yeah. They can be... I mean, they're the, they're the... You know, they're su- so close to a... They're closer to a black belt at that point than they were further from it.

Joe Rogan 11:24 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I trained with this purple belt one of the last times I trained. This guy was a surfer at Jean-Jacques' school in Malibu.

Todd White 11:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:31 And, uh, I remember we were just fucking going to war. I was like, "Jesus, this guy is so good for a purple belt." He's like close. They're close, they just, they're off on a few things. They don't know all the escapes. They don't know where their von... There's just a few things they're off on, but the shit that he was good at, I was like, "Whoo, this feels dangerous."

Todd White 11:50 Yeah, I know. What, what drives me crazy as an instructor now and owning a school is, you know, there was a long period of time where we could be lazy and rest on what we knew, right? And you would get a guy from another school or someone come in and he's a blue belt, or even a purple belt. It was like, "Oh yeah, let's roll." And they run right to you, right?

Joe Rogan 12:07 Yeah.

Todd White 12:07 "Hey, you, you rolling today? Let's roll." And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 12:09 Yeah.

Todd White 12:10 ... okay, let's roll. And, and you're like, you go into this, it's a, (sighs) you lull yourself into a, a mistake where you go, "I'm just gonna like defend and lay, be lazy and I'm gonna roll here 'cause I don't feel like rolling." And you're rolling with them and all of a sudden you're like, in your mind you're like, "Oh, shit. They're a little more than I anticipated."

Joe Rogan 12:29 Mm.

Todd White 12:30 Oh, shit. They're a little, they're amped up and bringing it, and you're like, "Dude, I just ate two donuts." (laughs) And I'm like thinking about like-

Joe Rogan 12:36 You know what would drive me the most crazy? When a guy would sit on the sidelines and wait while you roll with three or four people.

Todd White 12:42 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:42 And then jump up and go, "You wanna roll?" Like, I don't ... See, UFC fighters do that. You're like, "Come on, man."

Todd White 12:49 Come on, dude.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Yeah, you've been waiting. You've been sitting here waiting for everybody to get tired.

Todd White 12:53 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 12:54 I, dude, I remember when you lost your job at Nickelodeon.

Todd White 12:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:58 We were in the parking lot of John Jax. And this is like, what year was that?

Todd White 13:03 Um, I, that had to have been, uh, you know what? It had to have been '98.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Yeah. And you're like-

Todd White 13:05 '98 'cause I had a house. I just bought a townhome in Valencia.

Joe Rogan 13:09 Yeah, and we were talking. You're like, "Fuck, I don't know what to do."

Todd White 13:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:12 Like, I'm thinking, you know, but just like, just, you know, working on my art.

Todd White 13:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:17 I remember that conversation, man.

Todd White 13:19 It's-

Joe Rogan 13:19 And then I remember like years later you're balling out of control and you're arts and galleries. And I had a friend, and I went over his house and he had one of your fucking paintings above his kitchen table. I was like, "Holy shit, that's Todd White's painting."

Todd White 13:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:33 He's like, "You know that guy?"

Todd White 13:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:34 I go, "I do jiu-jitsu with him." I'm like, "Wow." He goes, "Yeah, he's really talented. He's really good." It was like one of those cocktail party paintings.

Todd White 13:40 Yeah. Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:40 And I remember thinking, "This is nuts, man. I'm at someone else's house and Todd White's painting is above his fucking kitchen table." It was wild.

Todd White 13:48 I love that.

Joe Rogan 13:49 But I was telling you the other day, or just earlier today rather, that, um, Shor, the restaurant out here.

Todd White 13:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:54 I go in, had no idea. I just go in, me and my wife, we're on date night. We walk in and I'm like, "This is fucking Todd White's paintings are everywhere."

Todd White 14:02 Yeah. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 14:03 It's, it's d- well, your style is so distinctive. You know, I can see your st- like either someone's ripping you off or it's you.

Todd White 14:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:11 So like when I walked in there I'm like, "I'm, I'm 99% sure this is Todd White-"

Todd White 14:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:14 "... or some Todd White copier."

Todd White 14:17 It, it's, uh ... So, you know, I had, I had (sighs) 13 years in animation. I came out of high school. I got a job at Warner Brothers as a, a charac- as a, um, production assistant on the first season of Tiny Toons. But, but what I did is I just, I, I looked at every super talented artist, every draftsman, and I, I would ask questions and I, I was drawing every day. I had no social life. And, uh, they would give me such great advice. Th- so I looked at it, that's my college because I didn't go to school. Uh, my mom was a painter, so I grew up in a painting household. Her mom was as well. And, uh, I just looked at it as I'm gonna educate myself through, you know, the, the hard work and the grind. And before I knew it, I was just around some of the most talented artists in the industry and they were showing me techniques and, and way to, the way to put life into character and the way to give a drawing life, which is the hardest thing, by the way. I look at a lot of paintings and I ... It, it, they may be technically great, but there's no life. They're dead looking.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Yeah.

Todd White 15:11 The eyes are dead. It's a dead looking painting. And so I learned through super talented artists to t- teach me how to put that kind of personality and life into the drawing and then translate that into the painting. And, uh, I was always obsessed with The Rat Pack and Sinatra and Dean Martin-

Joe Rogan 15:30 Mm.

Todd White 15:30 ... and Sammy Davis, Jr. And I just, I would, I had VHS tapes of them at the Summit and everything and I used to watch them all the time and try to-

Joe Rogan 15:36 They looked like they were having so much fun.

Todd White 15:38 God, men were men and women were dames and they had the drinks-

Joe Rogan 15:41 (laughs)

Todd White 15:41 ... and the cigarettes and they were blowing smoke in each other's face and they weren't worried about masks. It was just amazing time and, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 15:48 Women were dames.

Todd White 15:49 I loved it. You know?

Joe Rogan 15:50 Dames is such a great word. (laughs)

Todd White 15:52 And so, uh, so I just kind of, I wanted to capture that in painting and I wanted to, I wanted to kind of bring some of that timelessness back. And, uh, and, you know- (clears throat) I would, uh, I was really good with marker work, uh, marker color comps, uh, in animation 'cause th- then I quickly after that I became a character designer. And, and so I spent the next, you know, 10 years in animation designing characters for shows. And I ended on SpongeBob. And that was like, uh, Steve Hillenburg, a lot of my friends from a previous show said, "Hey, we're going over to Nickelodeon. They got this new show they're working on. It's a pilot, SpongeBob, and they need a character guy." And, and I met with Steve and, and he said, uh, he gave me marine biology books. He's like, "Here, make these characters." And, uh, I went home-

Joe Rogan 16:32 A marine biology book?

Todd White 16:34 Yeah, he was a marine biologist. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Really?

Todd White 16:36 He went to CalArts. He, he wasn't the best draftsman but he had good ideas. And, uh, and he was a really cool dude and a surfer.

Joe Rogan 16:41 So why marine biology? Was he just-

Todd White 16:43 Because it was all about underwater life.

Joe Rogan 16:45 ... the concept of the show? Okay.

Todd White 16:45 I don't know if you've ever seen the show. Um-

Joe Rogan 16:47 I've, well, I've seen it a few times with my kids. I never really paid attention.

Todd White 16:50 It's just underwater.

Joe Rogan 16:50 Is it-

Todd White 16:50 Yeah, it's just like fish.

Joe Rogan 16:50 I didn't know it was underwater.

Todd White 16:52 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:53 (laughs)

Todd White 16:53 It's all fish life.

Joe Rogan 16:54 I know Bubble Guppies is underwater. (laughs)

Todd White 16:56 I, I don't know what that is. (laughs) I, I, I actually can't stand watching-

Joe Rogan 16:59 You don't watch that with your kids?

Todd White 17:00 I don't. Uh, the kids have s- so many shows going on and they're all so horrible to watch. So I don't stare at any of them.

Joe Rogan 17:04 Yeah, Bubble Guppies was, uh, my daughter's favorite show-

Todd White 17:07 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 17:07 ... for like two years.

Todd White 17:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Um, your style, like, put, go to his website and pull up some of the, or pull some of the images of it. Your, are, are they all-

Todd White 17:16 There you go.

Joe Rogan 17:17 ... like this? Like y- your, your st- do you do other kinds of styles or is it most of your work-

Todd White 17:22 No, it's-

Joe Rogan 17:22 ... like cocktail-

Todd White 17:24 Y- so-

Joe Rogan 17:25 ... party?

Todd White 17:25 I, I, I view my work as, uh, it's all personality and relatable. So in my mind, uh, I'm gonna, I'm not painting art for your furniture or your living room. I'm not painting something you want to put in your living room. I'm painting something that you want, that you identify with. And, uh, I think a lot of people, uh-

Joe Rogan 17:42 What do you, what do you mean by that? Like, if it's not for the living room, like where is it if you identify with it?

Todd White 17:45 It's, yeah, it's put it-

Joe Rogan 17:45 Where would you hang it?

Todd White 17:46 ... wherever you identify.

Joe Rogan 17:47 Oh.

Todd White 17:47 Put it where you identify. See yourself in it. You see yourself, you see your boys weekend at Vegas that time you had the greatest time ever. The women had girls' night out and they see their new stuff.

Joe Rogan 17:56 But it's also, it's so-

Todd White 17:57 Do you, do you go to Instagram at all on that?

Joe Rogan 17:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Todd White 17:59 No? That's gonna have my newest stuff.

Joe Rogan 18:00 Interesting cartoonish. Oh, okay.

Todd White 18:02 I hate that word.

Joe Rogan 18:03 What, cartoon?

Todd White 18:04 Cartoonish.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Cartoonish?

Todd White 18:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Really?

Todd White 18:06 Ugh. What's good word? Cat- charactered.

Joe Rogan 18:09 Charactered. But no one's gonna know what you're saying.

Todd White 18:11 I know. I know.

Joe Rogan 18:13 (laughs) People are-

Todd White 18:13 So there you go, there's some new stuff right there.

Joe Rogan 18:15 Mm.

Todd White 18:15 That's like the, the foxes and-Um, you know, uh, so I always wanna represent someone's life. I want them to see their life in it. I want them to see their personality and their-

Joe Rogan 18:25 Can, go back to that picture again.

Todd White 18:26 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 18:28 The, the-

Todd White 18:29 Chasing foxes.

Joe Rogan 18:30 ... the blonde, the like, from the left-hand side, the third one, she looks like a bitch.

Todd White 18:34 Oh, good, good, because in a group of four-

Joe Rogan 18:36 That one right there, look at it. She looks like the mean one. That's the one that's like, "Fuck him. You can be so much better."

Todd White 18:37 Yep. In a group of four, that's what you're gonna have. See, everyone has their own attitude. Everyone has their own attitude. Everyone has their own personality.

Joe Rogan 18:44 Like, out of those three-

Todd White 18:46 You know why? She gets everything she wants, doesn't she?

Joe Rogan 18:47 ... I'm like, I like the girl on the far left, the one in the white. That's my kind of girl.

Todd White 18:50 There you go. She's soft, soft.

Joe Rogan 18:50 Smiling. She seems like she's happy.

Todd White 18:53 She's soft.

Joe Rogan 18:53 That o- w- that one, you gotta work for that one that's holding that wine glass too low, she's just too much work.

Todd White 18:58 What do we like? We like the thrill of the hunt, not the thrill of the kill.

Joe Rogan 19:00 No, I like nice people.

Todd White 19:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:03 I, I get my thrills in other places. I don't want them in relationships.

Todd White 19:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:06 A lot of people, they look for conflict in relationships. I just look for nice people, man. I like the white-

Todd White 19:11 I lucked out. I lucked out.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Yeah, you got lucky. I did too. I like the one in the white. That's my kind of girl. But that one, that one with the low wine glass, I'd tell my friends, "Bro, please. Please don't bring her over to the house."

Todd White 19:22 Look at that. Sugar shack.

Joe Rogan 19:23 So those three, I have no problem with any of those girls.

Todd White 19:25 They're fine. Those are fine girls.

Joe Rogan 19:26 But I think the one that Jamie's got the cursor over, she's gonna be the most problems. She's gonna overdose at your house.

Todd White 19:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:32 She's gonna want-

Todd White 19:32 But see, what are we doing? We're having conversations-

Joe Rogan 19:35 Yes.

Todd White 19:35 ... about stupid art, right? Like, so, you know, art should be a conversation piece. It, you know-

Joe Rogan 19:40 The one on the far right, she's gonna fuck your friends.

Todd White 19:42 My friends-

Joe Rogan 19:42 Yeah, you're gonna go have vacations.

Todd White 19:43 ... my clients.

Joe Rogan 19:44 She's gonna text your friends, "Can you help me move?"

Todd White 19:46 Like, "I can't believe it."

Joe Rogan 19:46 And then she's gonna fuck all your friends.

Todd White 19:48 Yeah, so it should be a conversation piece. You should have it in an area where friends come over and they go, "What's going on here?"

Joe Rogan 19:54 Yeah.

Todd White 19:54 And it represents you, it represents your personality. They say, "Well, this is how," you know, "we love our life when we see these."

Joe Rogan 19:59 But I know, I know you got to a point where you were like really in demand. Like, I remember, uh, I was talking to Eddie about it and he was like, "God, Todd is so busy. Like, he's like constantly working." Does d- does it ever get to a point where it seemed like labor or like a t... That is a dope Hendrix shirt, son. What you got there?

Todd White 20:17 Like that?

Joe Rogan 20:17 Hidden by your gay bandana.

Todd White 20:19 I'm sorry. It's not gay.

Joe Rogan 20:20 The COVID, COVID.

Todd White 20:20 It's more like a rancher's bandana.

Joe Rogan 20:22 There you go. We're in Texas.

Todd White 20:24 Yeah. Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 20:24 If it was gay, it'd have sequins in it or something. I like that. That's a dope shirt.

Todd White 20:28 You can have it.

Joe Rogan 20:29 Um, really? Oh.

Todd White 20:30 I'll give it to you.

Joe Rogan 20:31 Well, you already gave me that shirt.

Todd White 20:31 One of the coolest, one of the coolest, uh, shows I ever did, I have the greatest fans of any artist, period, living. They're just, they're awesome people and they show up in droves and we were doing a show one time and this, this client in England came up and he goes... And I said, "Dude, that's the greatest jacket I've ever seen." And he goes, "You like it?" And I go, "Yeah." And he goes, "It's yours."

Joe Rogan 20:48 Wow.

Todd White 20:48 And I go, "I'm not gonna take your jacket." And in my mind I go, "I'm taking his jacket."

Joe Rogan 20:51 (laughs)

Todd White 20:52 And I go, he goes, (clears throat) he goes, "No man, try it on. If it fits you, it's yours." And I thought, "That's a fair, fair..." I try it on, I'm like, "Oh, buddy."

Joe Rogan 20:59 Fit perfect?

Todd White 21:00 He goes, "I've had sex with it." He goes, "It's yours."

Joe Rogan 21:02 Wow.

Todd White 21:02 I go, "Oh, thank you." And then the cool thing is about 10 years later, I was in Toronto doing a show and an, a kid came up, a, a artist kid and he showed me his work briefly, which I, I find a bit hard to look at people's work in the middle of my show and I'm like, "Oh, that's awesome, dude." And he goes, "Man, that's a great jacket." And I go... He was about my size. I go, "Hey, see if this fits you." And it fit him and I go, "It's yours."

Joe Rogan 21:22 Wow.

Todd White 21:22 And he was like over the moon. He goes, "I can't believe it." And then-

Joe Rogan 21:25 Oh, that's dope.

Todd White 21:26 And then other people were like, "Dude, I just bought a fucking $60,000 painting. You gave him a jacket?"

Joe Rogan 21:30 (laughs)

Todd White 21:31 (laughs) Like, "Hey, hey, come on, man."

Joe Rogan 21:33 You just gotta go with the flow.

Todd White 21:33 Pay it forward. Pay it forward.

Joe Rogan 21:35 Yeah, you gotta go with the flow. But did you ever get to a point where, you know, 'cause you were painting so much, I mean, you have a lot... You like, like had requirements, right? I mean, was it-

Todd White 21:44 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 21:44 Was it ever where it felt like work?

Todd White 21:46 No, it was always, uh... I, I never, uh... Unless it was a commission, I was being commissioned by someone to do something, I, I painted what I wanted how I wanted it and, and, uh, e- every day was exciting to me because my paintings start as a story. I have a story in my mind first and I have... I come up with titles and names and sometimes you'll be coming-

Joe Rogan 22:03 Go, go back to the Instagram page real quick, please.

Todd White 22:04 You'll have a conversation with something and, and I'll hear something. Any one of those, pick, and it's a different story.

Joe Rogan 22:09 All right. What's the story of the lady with the... Or what's the story with the dude jumping up in the air? Is that Eddie Van Halen?

Todd White 22:14 That's Eddie Van Halen, dude.

Joe Rogan 22:14 Oh, wow.

Todd White 22:14 That was... Thank you. Sorry. We miss you, buddy.

Joe Rogan 22:17 Wow, that's a great Eddie Van Halen-

Todd White 22:19 Story of my, story of my childhood right there.

Joe Rogan 22:20 That's so-

Todd White 22:20 1984, riding a school bus to school and people playing Jump in the back of it on a cassette boombox.

Joe Rogan 22:27 Yes. Dude, that-

Todd White 22:27 That was history, man. That was-

Joe Rogan 22:29 My high school too.

Todd White 22:30 Brought a sad tear to my eye when I heard that. I was like, "Oh."

Joe Rogan 22:32 I've become friends with David Lee Roth-

Todd White 22:35 I know.

Joe Rogan 22:35 ... and it's one of the weirdest things ever because when I was in high school, that guy was the shit.

Todd White 22:40 He's God. He was a god.

Joe Rogan 22:42 And I'm eating dinner with him in Vegas and we're laughing and having a good time and I'm like, "This is so strange."

Todd White 22:49 Dude, you have the best life.

Joe Rogan 22:50 "That I'm friends with David Lee Roth having dinner with him. We're cutting up steaks and having a bunch of laughs and..."

Todd White 22:57 Oh, dude. At some point in your mind, just to be Joe for a second, you have to go, you know, you're having the conversations and you have such great conversations with people and you're like, "Goddamn, this is awesome."

Joe Rogan 23:06 It's weird.

Todd White 23:07 Like-

Joe Rogan 23:07 Seems weird.

Todd White 23:08 It's surreal.

Joe Rogan 23:09 Oh, beyond.

Todd White 23:10 Because, because here you lived... In a way, you've lived two lives. You had the first portion of your life, which was a, uh, youth, struggle, adult. You know, you're trying to get to your goals and make your dreams happen and it's a work in progress, but all this stuff is going on around you. Music's happening, movies happening, and you're, you're paying attention to it lightly. And now you're at a different part of your life where you're almost the ringleader of things and you're circus master and these people are coming into you and you're sitting across from like James Hetfield and you're just having conversations and you're like, "Dude, my God, you got me through high school, dude." Right?

Joe Rogan 23:41 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 23:41 The lightning got me through, you know? And, and it's-

Joe Rogan 23:44 Yeah.

Todd White 23:44 ... it's gotta be like such a personal-

Joe Rogan 23:46 It's bizarre.

Todd White 23:46 ... inside reward to go, "Goddamn, this is awesome."

Joe Rogan 23:49 Well, I, I, I without a doubt feel super, super fortunate in, in the weirdest way. Like, like what did I do in a past life to deserve this? But another way it's, um, it's, uh, it's alien. It's, it's both... I feel both fortunate and I also feel like, like how is this real?Like, how am I, how am I, like, when I'm sitting across from, y- you know, anyone, name the person. Like name ... Even like-

Todd White 24:15 Steven Tyler.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Yeah, Steven Tyler. The fact that Steven Tyler knows my fucking name is bizarre.

Todd White 24:19 Oh, everybody knows your name.

Joe Rogan 24:19 He came to see me in Vegas.

Todd White 24:22 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 24:22 So I'm hanging out with him after my show.

Todd White 24:24 I know.

Joe Rogan 24:24 I'm like, "This is so fucking weird."

Todd White 24:27 But, but you got your foot in the door and then you earned the room. So it's not like ... I mean, you're really good at it. So it's not like you're, it's not like you're flying by the seat of your pants. It's like, it's so, it's so easy-

Joe Rogan 24:36 That's all well and good.

Todd White 24:37 It's good to listen to. It's smooth.

Joe Rogan 24:39 That's all well and good, but it still feels bizarre.

Todd White 24:42 It's got to.

Joe Rogan 24:43 Because I mean, I don't ... I- I'm not panicking when I'm talking to him.

Todd White 24:46 No.

Joe Rogan 24:47 But I, but it is, there's parts, the time where he's talking, I'm like, "That's Steven Tyler!"

Todd White 24:51 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:52 He's right there. I could touch him!

Todd White 24:53 (laughs) I could-

Joe Rogan 24:54 I could touch him!

Todd White 24:54 I could grab Iron Man and throw him to the ground right now.

Joe Rogan 24:57 (laughs) Robert Downey Jr. just-

Todd White 24:59 Where's your Iron Man now, bitch?

Joe Rogan 25:00 Ta! (laughs)

Todd White 25:02 Boom!

Joe Rogan 25:02 He's actually a martial artist. He's really into Wing Chun.

Todd White 25:04 Yeah. Yeah. I like that one even, in fact.

Joe Rogan 25:05 (laughs)

Todd White 25:07 Good. I'm sure I'll get fucking hate mail on that.

Joe Rogan 25:09 (laughs) It's so true though.

Todd White 25:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:11 It's so true. Those kung fu dudes, they never let it go.

Todd White 25:14 Never. So ...

Joe Rogan 25:15 Well, you got a lot of, uh, the Day of the Dead type-

Todd White 25:17 So-

Joe Rogan 25:18 ... gals.

Todd White 25:18 During ... Well, that ... You're just catching September through, uh, November 2nd.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Oh, okay.

Todd White 25:21 That's my little shtick. I do, uh, September 1st through November 2nd, I do nothing but Day of the Dead. The best part is, uh, when I was over in England touring, they said, uh, "What is this Halloween stuff?"

Joe Rogan 25:30 Why you got a butt?

Todd White 25:31 Uh, well, why w- why not?

Joe Rogan 25:33 (laughs)

Todd White 25:33 That was a commission. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:34 Somebody wanted you to make a butt?

Todd White 25:35 That, that's my collector hired this, me to paint his wife like that.

Joe Rogan 25:37 Oh, wow.

Todd White 25:38 (clears throat) And I had a-

Joe Rogan 25:39 Did he, did he get a picture or did she stand there?

Todd White 25:41 Yeah. No, no, he sent totos.

Joe Rogan 25:42 Mm.

Todd White 25:42 So I won't, I won't, I won't paint nudes of people's wives. Like, "Don't send me nudes," I always say. But, uh, there's Meg. So I said, uh, "Hey," uh, my, my wife says, "Hey, you got a commission to do. It's a guy that owns a really big strip club chain."

Joe Rogan 25:55 (laughs)

Todd White 25:55 And I go, "Yeah?" He goes, "Yeah, he wants you to paint his wife." And, uh, he gave me a story, he met her when he was 18, yanked her right off stage and married her. And, and h- he's ... She's part of the empire now. And, and so he sent me a bunch of photos. And she's 40 now, and she was unbelievable, right? Like, goddamn. And so, uh, (laughs) he, he ... I did the painting of her, you know, in, in a bustier, and I sent it back to him and (clears throat) my wife says, "Hey, you got a, you got a letter back from them. Uh, I got good news and bad news." I thought, "Oh, shit, bad news." I don't like hearing that. And she goes ... I go, "What's the good news first?" And she goes, "Oh, the good news is, um, they love the painting. It's hanging in their bedroom." They said, "It's a great ... It's the centerpiece. Th- they just think it's the greatest thing ever." I go, "Well, what's the bad news?" He said, "If, uh, if you're ever in, uh, New Orleans, New York, or, uh, San Francisco again, contact them. You're gonna have the greatest night of your life." And I said, "That's the bad news?" She goes, "Yeah, you're never going there by yourself again." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:44 (laughs)

Todd White 26:45 I go, "Oh, well, fair enough. Fair enough."

Joe Rogan 26:47 (gasps) Who's the girl in the lower corner with the glasses?

Todd White 26:50 That's just a-

Joe Rogan 26:51 Just a gal?

Todd White 26:51 ... just a dirty little floozy, my brand new pistol.

Joe Rogan 26:54 (laughs) Dirty little floozy.

Todd White 26:56 Just a little scallywag.

Joe Rogan 26:57 Is she a dame?

Todd White 26:58 No. No, that's not a dame.

Joe Rogan 26:59 No. Is that a dame? What is a dame versus a floozy?

Todd White 27:02 Dude, a dame is a, is a girl who holds her own in a court of men.

Joe Rogan 27:05 Right.

Todd White 27:05 Like, she can just hold it, right?

Joe Rogan 27:06 A floozy hates her dad.

Todd White 27:07 You ever watch those old classic movies and, and, and they, they give it back to you. You know?

Joe Rogan 27:11 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 27:12 I like that. I li- I like ... So m- my paintings of women, they're, uh, they're not ... They may be sexual looking, but they're ... They, they have their own thing going. They have their own agenda. They're strong. They're not, uh, these weak, uh ... They're not just pinups.

Joe Rogan 27:23 Yeah, they seem aggressive.

Todd White 27:24 They are ... They have, they have a game plan, okay?

Joe Rogan 27:26 What does this get?

Todd White 27:27 And that comes from th- the cesspool of LA, and, and-

Joe Rogan 27:29 Mm.

Todd White 27:30 ... wallowing in that mire and being around that, that so much that you couldn't meet a nice innocent girl because they all had a game plan. There was ... They were after something. Wha- whether it was status, whether it was, uh, uh, money, or whether it was, like, to get on a show, which, you know, y- y- I'll never fault people for going to a place to try to achieve a dream.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Yeah.

Todd White 27:48 But at some point, at some point, it's like, "That's not happening."

Joe Rogan 27:51 You know what's the most depressing thing, uh, in LA when you, y- you're meeting people is the, the people that you think are pretty cool, but then you realize along the way that what they're really doing is being friendly so that they can sort of network?

Todd White 28:04 Of course. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:05 And you real-

Todd White 28:05 It- it's a town of that.

Joe Rogan 28:06 Yeah.

Todd White 28:06 Um, it- it's hard to filter.

Joe Rogan 28:08 It's, it's strange.

Todd White 28:08 I mean, I, I've been friends with people for 15 years. I had dudes that I thought were my bros, we're in foxholes together and, and you know, my wife is ... She's gotta be a bit psychic because she says, "That guy's gonna stab you in the back." And I'm like, "Get out of here. That's never gonna happen." And then the right opportunity comes along and they jump ship and they're just like (fists thudding) bang. And you're like, "Goddamn, she was right." And-

Joe Rogan 28:29 Stab you in the back, how so?

Todd White 28:30 You know, like, uh, what you said, riding coattails, uh, you're, you're ... you have a career going, you're doing your thing and all of a sudden they're like, "Hey, I wanna get in on that." And it's like-

Joe Rogan 28:38 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 28:38 ... "Yeah, but you sold insurance and now you're an art guy." And it's like, "What?" And they just fucking jump on you and, and it just ... You know, they try to-

Joe Rogan 28:46 And it is the weirdest thing when someone wants to be a part of your business.

Todd White 28:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Someone, "Hey, let, let me pitch you something."

Todd White 28:51 Oh.

Joe Rogan 28:51 You're like, "Oh, no," 'cause then you realize they're looking at you as, uh, an opportunity for income.

Todd White 28:58 You're an object and you're, you're ... Yeah. And what's, what's more discouraging for me is, uh, people who think, "Well, you're doing that, I can do that." And then-

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah.

Todd White 29:07 ... like, "What do you mean by that?"

Joe Rogan 29:08 That's hilarious.

Todd White 29:09 And they go, "Well, you know, I can do that. I can paint that way." And it's like, "Well, well, then do it, you know, and see how far it gets you." You know? Because i- it's not only one thing, it's, it's everything. It's the work, the labor, the drive you have. And I'll take drive any day over talent, because the harder-

Joe Rogan 29:24 Yeah.

Todd White 29:24 ... you drive something, you can get to that talent level.

Joe Rogan 29:26 I, I completely agree with that. I always tell people, like if someone ... Like, standup is a perfect example because a lot of people are funny, a lot of guys are funny hanging out, and they're hanging out with you, and I'm not particularly funny when I'm hanging out. Like, when I'm hanging ... I t- I can just hang out. Like, I'll be funny occasionally if some shit happens or if I have a, a moo- ... But I'm not a needy comedian. Like, I'm not ... I don't have to be the guy who's on all the time.

Todd White 29:48 Right. That's gotta be hard.

Joe Rogan 29:49 So sometimes g- guys will go, "I can fucking do comedy. Like, I'm fucking funnier than you. I could do comedy." I'm like, "Yeah, you could do comedy. You could do, you could do comedy. You definitely could do." I tell everybody, "You could do it, but good luck."

Todd White 30:01 Do it over and over again.

Joe Rogan 30:03 Good luck.

Todd White 30:03 Be fresh.

Joe Rogan 30:03 But good luck understanding what that is. Like, you're looking ... It seems like you're just talking 'cause everybody talks.

Todd White 30:10 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 30:10 I talk. I can be funny. I say funny things sometimes. My wife laughs at me. Like, I think I can do it. And then go get an idea across in front of people.... and it seems like you're doing hypnosis, is what you're doing. That's right. You're doing some weird sort of artistic hypnosis with built-in ideas that spark lights in people's head. And you either can do that or you can't. And even if you, even if you can make your friends laugh, doing that on stage in front of people, that shit's gonna take forever.

Todd White 30:42 It, you know, people get, uh, very accustomed to like saying stuff with their boys or their friends and they, and they get these laughs and they think they're really good. But then if you got up on stage and you said something and it dropped dead silent-

Joe Rogan 30:53 Yeah.

Todd White 30:53 ... that's gonna hit you and you're gonna be like, "Uh..."

Joe Rogan 30:55 (laughs)

Todd White 30:56 Uh, it's gonna throw you like a gut check kick.

Joe Rogan 30:59 Yeah.

Todd White 30:59 You know, and all of a sudden you're like, "Uh, my next thing is..." You know?

Joe Rogan 31:03 Yeah. Well, you know, Eddie really got into comedy again.

Todd White 31:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:06 You know, Eddie took a long... I j- I forced Eddie on stage like in the early 2000s. I forced him on the stage. I'm like, "Dude, you're funny. You make me laugh all the time. Go do it." And he did it like eight or nine times, but the bombing was too much. He couldn't do it.

Todd White 31:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:18 But then when he started running 10th Planet, when he started teaching, he got way more comfortable talking to people.

Todd White 31:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 And he would make the crowd laugh in the gym, you know, when he was teaching classes. And then he eventually was doing seminars. And during seminars, he would have funny stories and he would do it and he would, yeah, he would be killing. He's like, "Dude, I was killing at my seminar."

Todd White 31:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:38 "I'm thinking about doing standup again." I'm like, "Do it! Fucking do it." And that turned into him actually doing standup. And dude-

Todd White 31:45 Good.

Joe Rogan 31:45 And he was touring with Sam Trippeley for a while. He was doing really well.

Todd White 31:49 Yeah, I saw that tin foil hat group, whatever.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Yeah, Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Theory Podcast.

Todd White 31:52 I follow them on Instagram. Occasionally talk.

Joe Rogan 31:53 Dude, he's funny.

Todd White 31:55 Good.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Eddie makes me laugh (claps hands) . Like he really c- I knew he could do it. But it's the pain of doing... But he was like, "Listen, I'm trying to run a school."

Todd White 32:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 "I'm trying to compete in jujitsu."

Todd White 32:04 You get, you're spinning a lot of plates, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:05 You can't spin too many plates.

Todd White 32:06 We, uh, me and my wife are spinning so many plates now. It's like we got a, we got the jujitsu school, we got... Which is basically a side project that I enjoy doing and a hobby that I've got some awesome instructors helping me with. And then, uh, then we have our art business, our art publishing business. 'Cause I'm self-published. I don't just turn my work over to a company to, to produce my work. I produce it all. Uh-

Joe Rogan 32:26 When you say produce...

Todd White 32:27 Giclée is high-end reproductions.

Joe Rogan 32:29 Ah.

Todd White 32:29 Uh, you know, when I do a release, it's a limited edition of 35, 135. And, and that goes out-

Joe Rogan 32:35 And this is for prints?

Todd White 32:35 Yeah, the prints, the high-end reproductions on canvas.

Joe Rogan 32:37 How do you, how does that happen? You, do you... When you, like say if you make a painting, like one of these paintings-

Todd White 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 ... and then you want to turn that into a print.

Todd White 32:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:43 What's the process?

Todd White 32:44 So you get it scanned. Uh, y- from there you take it on your computer and you run it through a big Epson 11880 printer the size of this table, and it prints it out on j- on a canvas. And, and you gotta color correct everything 'cause the, the photograph versus the computer talking to the inks and it's different. It comes out, you get that right, and then you start doing your run. Okay. Um, for me, when I do a limited edition, that's it. It's limited. I don't do more. I don't make a smaller version. This is where, this is where artists get in trouble, because the, the publicist will say, "Hey, we did a, we did 50 of that image. We sold out in a day. Let's do 50 more in a smaller size, and let's do 20 more in a smaller size."

Joe Rogan 33:24 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 33:24 So now if you're a, a, you know, the, the, the collector, who I value the highest in my profession, y- y- they look at it and they go, "Dude, I bought that. And then I'm walking down this gallery and I see a tiny version of it."

Joe Rogan 33:35 Mm.

Todd White 33:35 Like, it's losing value. It's losing its luster. It's like-

Joe Rogan 33:38 Yeah.

Todd White 33:38 ... you don't have something so special.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Yeah.

Todd White 33:40 And so when I do an edition of 135 in the world, that's it. So the UK will buy half out the front, then the Canada will pick up 20, and then what's leftover is for the US.

Joe Rogan 33:49 Why is that? Why is the UK the, the p- premier market?

Todd White 33:53 Um, they're, they are, uh, De Montfort Fine Art handles me over there, and they are a distributor. So they can, they have their network of galleries.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Ah.

Todd White 34:01 They already did. Here, I'm, I'm dealing with the galleries, or my wife deals with them, I don't. And, and she's the business end of it. And she's talking to the galleries and dealing... We only have like five or six i- in the United States and, uh, t- you know, from, uh, from, uh, Ohio to then, um, uh, t- uh, up northern California.

Joe Rogan 34:19 So how does that work? Like let's say you have an idea for a painting. You make a painting. Who... How do you decide who gets the original?

Todd White 34:26 Who buys it (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 34:27 But how do you even put that out there?

Todd White 34:29 So, so I put it out there on Instagram. Instagram is-

Joe Rogan 34:32 Ah.

Todd White 34:32 It's a, it's a strange day and time right now because of COVID, and they're shutting down galleries. And galleries, some galleries are not coming back. We, we're losing mom and pop galleries.

Joe Rogan 34:40 Yeah.

Todd White 34:40 They're closing down. They go, "Enough. We're out." And, you know, California was such an awesome thriving market, and now it's just dead in the water. It's just all these galleries are leaving. Artists are going, "What, what the hell am I gonna do?" And, uh, so I've lost several galleries and, uh, you know, Instagram is becoming this new, the, the, the Amazon for artists. It's like artists are now looking at Instagram as, "I'm just gonna put my work up there and push myself and they can contact us." And, and so that's w- what happens. I'll, I'll post an image and my clients will see it anywhere around the world and they'll contact their gallery. And so if they're-

Joe Rogan 35:15 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 35:15 ... in England, they'll contact a White Wall Gallery and they'll say, "Oh, I'd like to, to..." And they'll inquire. 'Cause, 'cause my wife will wake up in the morning, she'll have four or five emails from around the world of, "Hey, how much is that? What's the size of that?"

Joe Rogan 35:26 So is this on your Instagram page? Like if someone sees one of your paintings-

Todd White 35:29 Correct.

Joe Rogan 35:29 ... is there a contact information number or email number or email address where I can-

Todd White 35:32 So if they're local or if they're... Local, if they're in the US or whatever, they usually contact us directly from there-

Joe Rogan 35:37 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 35:37 ... from their Instagram, they'll send a DM or they'll send it, my website, my wife's, you know, page, and they'll send it to us. Uh, if they're, if they are a collector who's f- accustomed to a gallery, they'll contact that gallery. If I've always bought from, uh, Kevin in Ohio, um, they'll buy it from him directly. You know, they'll call him. "Hey, Kevin, I saw this new piece." And that's what we want. The problem is these galleries are closing down more and more. And-

Joe Rogan 36:01 'Cause of COVID?

Todd White 36:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:02 Yeah.

Todd White 36:02 And so some of them, they're like, "Well, my guy's gone." So we're just like, uh, "Just contact us direct. It's fine," you know. In the UK I send them... Anybody from the UK, we send them right over to White Wall Galleries. Anyone in the, in the Canada, we send them to, to List Gallery and then-

Joe Rogan 36:17 What's getting hit the worst? Is it United States?

Todd White 36:19 Ca- uh, the UK.

Joe Rogan 36:20 UK.

Todd White 36:21 Now they have some new strain, they're shut down again.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah. Some new strain that's 70% more contagious.

Todd White 36:26 I just, it's just...... you know, I got tested, uh, by you before I came in here. That was the first time I'd been tested. I-

Joe Rogan 36:34 (laughs)

Todd White 36:34 ... I see no point in getting, for me personally, doing ... I'm, I'm very fit. I train at least one day a week now, embarrassing to say. Uh, I know my body very well, and I know when I wake up and something's off.

Joe Rogan 36:47 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 36:47 And if something's off, I'll get checked immediately.

Joe Rogan 36:50 Yeah.

Todd White 36:50 But to say, you know, I've heard stories from guys who've, uh, rolled, friends of mine in California, super, super athletes, and they're like, "Yeah, dude, I was doing something and they said I had COVID." And I'm like, "And how did you feel?" And they're like, "I feel great. I feel fine." Like, "Nothing is wrong with me. I didn't know it. I don't have headaches. I don't have any of, anything."

Joe Rogan 37:10 There are false negatives.

Todd White 37:11 Yeah. And I go, "Dude-"

Joe Rogan 37:13 We, we ... Or false positives, rather.

Todd White 37:13 "... if, if you, if this is the end-all disease and you feel great, you're not bleeding out your eyeballs, then what ... Like ..."

Joe Rogan 37:21 It really depends on the person. It depends on your vulnerabilities. Depends on your age. You know, I had, uh, Alex Berenson from, uh, the ... He's a former, uh, journalist for the New York Times, and he wrote a book on COVID with, uh, a series of three booklets about all the things that we're doing wrong, particularly the lockdowns. He's like, these are the worst things you could do because it's also the worst environment for COVID to spread is when people are stuck indoors. He's like, "You're, you're actually seeing upticks in the virus in, in, in, during the places with the most lockdowns, like Los Angeles, which has the worst lockdowns and the biggest fucking, uh, spread of COVID."

Todd White 37:57 Explosion. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:57 It's crazy. But, uh, he's, you know, he's adamant about it that it's like, the, it, it's age dependent and it's comorbidity dependent. The, uh, the people that are dying, they have an average of, uh, 2.6 comorbidities, the people that are dying from COVID. Only 6% of the people who died from COVID actually died from COVID. The most of them are dying from COVID ... He, the way he put it is dying with COVID.

Todd White 38:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Doesn't mean it's not dangerous, but it's just not dangerous to you. And it's not dangerous to Jamie. Jamie kicked it in a day. Tony Hinchcliffe, who fucking barely works out, I called him today, he said he feels 100%. He had COVID two days ago, he tested positive. He said it felt like shit. Yesterday, he didn't feel too good. Today, he feels 100%. So, basically, he had a day and a half of feeling shitty. And the whole country shut down for that. But it's the people that are vulnerable are really vulnerable. Older people.

Todd White 38:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Sick people. But what it is is a, we, w- it's expo- ... Andrew Schultz said it best, that this, this, uh, disease has exposed a vulnerability in our health and a vulnerability economically, that people can't be out of work for a few months. They can't shut down for a few months.

Todd White 39:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:03 They need that ... Even big companies need that money coming in constantly to maintain the business model. And with people's health, there's a lot of people that, like yourself or like Jamie or Tony, that they get it and it's nothing. But there's a lot of people that are very vulnerable 'cause they're just not healthy. They're not taking care of themselves. They're not exercising. They're not watching their nutrition. They're not taking supplements. And when they get hit, they get hit hard.

Todd White 39:28 That's probably half the nation, though.

Joe Rogan 39:29 It's a big chunk.

Todd White 39:30 So, w- wouldn't it make more sense that they stay inside?

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yes.

Todd White 39:34 They-

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yes.

Todd White 39:35 ... lock down?

Joe Rogan 39:35 Yes.

Todd White 39:36 They stay away?

Joe Rogan 39:37 Yeah. Yeah.

Todd White 39:37 Hey, wouldn't it make more sense if, hey, healthy people work and we're all gonna pay this extra tax. I hate that word. We're gonna pay an extra tax to, to support them while they're doing it.

Joe Rogan 39:48 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 39:48 As opposed to shut everything down-

Joe Rogan 39:50 Yeah.

Todd White 39:50 ... and kill a million to save a thousand. Like ...

Joe Rogan 39:53 They didn't know, man. When this all started out, I just think no one knew what the fuck it was. They thought it was gonna be way worse than it was, and they haven't course-corrected.

Todd White 40:01 Right. And do you think there's any relation at all, since you love to go down rabbit holes-

Joe Rogan 40:06 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 40:06 ... do you think there's any relation at all to the fact that all these huge companies like Amazon and Google and all are making billions of dollars right now as long as mom and pop are closed? People can't get what they want from their store, so they go right to online.

Joe Rogan 40:20 I don't think so.

Todd White 40:21 You don't?

Joe Rogan 40:21 I think they're profiting from it. And I think they're taking advantage of a vulnerability and an availability. I don't think they have anything to do with it happening in the first place. I think what's happened-

Todd White 40:31 Oh, no, no. They didn't have anything to do with it in the first place, but as you said-

Joe Rogan 40:33 No, but I mean-

Todd White 40:33 ... as we're learning and going down the show.

Joe Rogan 40:34 ... even maintaining the lockdown ... No, I think it's politicians. I think they're just cowards.

Todd White 40:37 Who are they lobbied by?

Joe Rogan 40:39 Yeah, there's a little of that, but I, I just think that would be such a fucking scandal. Like, to, to ... If they were saying like, "Let's keep these businesses shut so that Amazon can thrive." Look at you raise- re- raising your eyebrows. (laughs)

Todd White 40:51 I don't know what you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 40:53 It's interesting-

Todd White 40:53 Don't quote me, boy. I ain't said shit.

Joe Rogan 40:56 (laughs) It's interesting to think about it that way, and a lot of people are conspiratorially minded and they look at it that way. You know, Eddie thinks China's taking over. He thinks China, China released the vi- Oh, oh, yeah.

Todd White 41:07 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 41:07 I don't think, I don't think he thinks China released the virus on purpose. But if you were really conspiratorially minded, that's what you would think. You would, you would think that China did it on purpose to crash the economy, and then they start buying up all these corporations, which they are doing.

Todd White 41:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:20 Yeah.

Todd White 41:20 And then I'm hearing, uh ... I have no idea about this, but I'm hearing. I'm getting texts from people like, "Dude, they're set up in Toronto. They're set up in Canada."

Joe Rogan 41:26 Oh, as long as you're getting texts, it must be real.

Todd White 41:28 They're set ... Yeah. Uh, they're set up in Mexico. We're surrounded.

Joe Rogan 41:30 By who? China?

Todd White 41:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:31 Yeah.

Todd White 41:31 And then, and Jocko's just like, "Pff. Pfft. Bring it."

Joe Rogan 41:35 I'm ready.

Todd White 41:35 Bring it.

Joe Rogan 41:36 Yeah. All caps. I'm ready.

Todd White 41:38 I'm ready.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Todd White 41:39 I, I, I ... He's my go-to. Whenever I get panicked, I call dad.

Joe Rogan 41:42 (laughs)

Todd White 41:42 "Jo- Jocko, what's going on here? What are we, what are we looking at?" Pshh. "Don't worry about it. We got it."

Joe Rogan 41:48 Yeah. He got COVID and I, I said, "How you feeling?" He goes, "Not a factor."

Todd White 41:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:52 That was all caps. Not a factor. (laughs)

Todd White 41:55 I, I was, I was working at the jiu-jitsu school one day and, and I'm under the counter trying to screw some lights in and I hear, "Guard, guard." And I'm like ... I got scared. And I looked up and he's standing there and I'm like, "Oh, Jocko."

Joe Rogan 42:07 Well, he's a guy who's been real smart with his business, too, because he opened up Origin, which they sell gis. They sell really cool stretchy pants. And they sell homemade boots. I got a pair of his homemade boots. They're fucking excellent. Like, re- American made, factory in Maine, like all-

Todd White 42:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:22 All stitched together by hand. All done by hand. And like, you feel, you ... Like, when I put 'em on, I'm like, I feel like I'm b- I bought something that a guy made. You know? It's like, it feels legit. Like, you p-

Todd White 42:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:34 It feels like s- I'm not getting it from Nike or someone-

Todd White 42:37 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:37 I'm getting it from a person.

Todd White 42:39 Y- your kids are much older right now, but I read the, the kid's books, his, um-

Joe Rogan 42:44 Oh, no. My, my daughter loves his books.

Todd White 42:45 Yeah. And he, he actually-

Joe Rogan 42:46 My youngest are 10 and 12.

Todd White 42:48 Yeah. Okay. All right. So you can still read to 'em. Uh-

Joe Rogan 42:51 Yeah.

Todd White 42:51 ... I read, I read to my boys-

Joe Rogan 42:52 If I try to read-

Todd White 42:53 ... and girls.

Joe Rogan 42:53 ... to my 24-year-old, she's not gonna listen.

Todd White 42:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:55 (laughs)

Todd White 42:55 Every night, I read to 'em and, and they love, uh, you know, hearing about Uncle Jake. And, but he did a book that didn't get a lot, uh, it's been kinda quiet with, uh, the Mikey and the Dragon book, okay?

Joe Rogan 43:04 Yeah.

Todd White 43:05 Mikey Slays the Dragon, I think. I don't wanna misquote it. He'll punch me in the face. But I, uh, I read it and I'm not, I'm not kidding you, as a, as a father and with your kids and y- you have that moment where you're reading to 'em, there's a, a heavy moment in there where, where the dad had died and then the Mikey's, like, reading his letter to him. And it's like, I well up. Like, I'm, I have to stop for a second-

Joe Rogan 43:24 Yeah.

Todd White 43:24 ... and, and read it. But it's so good and it's such a great story. And it's like, for a guy who is, you know, in leadership and a, and a war- a warrior and went through those, that organization, he's very creative in his, his endeavors of-

Joe Rogan 43:39 Yeah.

Todd White 43:39 ... writing and working and his thinking on that. It's, it, it almost doesn't make sense.

Joe Rogan 43:44 Well, it does because he gets good at everything he does.

Todd White 43:46 Yeah. I guess so.

Joe Rogan 43:47 That's why it makes sense.

Todd White 43:47 I guess so. I guess so.

Joe Rogan 43:48 It makes sense 'cause-

Todd White 43:49 You, you implement the jujitsu mindset.

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yes.

Todd White 43:51 Right? Where you're gonna, you're gonna focus, you're gonna train at it, you're gonna train hard.

Joe Rogan 43:55 Yes.

Todd White 43:55 And you're gonna have that kinda blinders, horse blinders on and just go for that.

Joe Rogan 43:59 Yeah. He's smart with everything he does and to, to have a blind spot where your creativity is unbalanced or your creativity sucks, like, he would never allow that.

Todd White 44:09 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 44:09 That would be a weakness. You know?

Todd White 44:11 He told me a story, he wants me to draw him for his studio, this, uh, this marine coming out of this, like, foxhole with, like, knives and hatchets, covered, clothes ripped off, and it was a true story about a guy and, uh, and so I've almost been intimidated to dive into that.

Joe Rogan 44:26 Yeah.

Todd White 44:26 Because I'm like, it would never be good enough in his mind, so...

Joe Rogan 44:28 Well, it's how do you do if you haven't experienced that? That's one of those things, like, you could easily paint someone d- in a jujitsu match, but you haven't been to war.

Todd White 44:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:39 So how do you, how do you do that without making it embarrassing or making it, you know, foolish? You know what I'm saying?

Todd White 44:48 Oh, I know exactly what you're saying. I would get, uh, when I was in my animation days, I would get directors call me in and say, "Hey, uh, we're gonna have Ranger Smith fight with Yogi Bear, but they need to look like they're really fighting." And they would ask me, they're like, "Well, how do you do this?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm not a fighter. I just did jujitsu and, and I know that really well." And they'd say, "Well, we're gonna have him put them in the guard and they're gonna roll around." And I'm like, "Okay. (laughs) Do it like this."

Joe Rogan 45:09 (laughs)

Todd White 45:10 And we, and he loved it, and John K, who r- did Ren & Stimpy, uh, he, he was obsessed with jujitsu and UFC.

Joe Rogan 45:16 Really?

Todd White 45:16 And he would have huge parties at his house every UFC and Tank Abbott was his favorite guy and, and he would wanna in- integrate those fighting moves into his cartoons and he would always get blowback from networks and such. And he, so... I mean, there's a great documentary, uh, the Ren & Stimpy Happy Happy Joy Joy that I, I sent it to you.

Joe Rogan 45:35 Yeah.

Todd White 45:35 And I don't know if you can see it. I think it's on Apple, it's on...

Joe Rogan 45:37 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 45:37 It's everywhere.

Joe Rogan 45:38 Yeah.

Todd White 45:38 But, uh, I- I had a small hand in that with, uh, some... Fuck, it came on and... They're awesome dudes and, uh, they did a beautiful documentary on the whole history of that show and the failure of it. And it, and it has a lot to do with, like, just that mental, um, inner genius going over the edge.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Mm.

Todd White 45:57 You know? And I see that a lot. You have to see it a lot where you... Somebody's on path and they're doing something so great and then all of a sudden, it just starts twisting and going in a different direction, but in their mind it's still great.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 46:08 I mean, how do you, how do you contend with your own writing abilities and that... Like, for me, I feel like I have this kind of black hole that I'm, I'm, everything I'm doing, I'm trying to fill in. And I know, I've heard only stories of comedians who are like, "Well, we're all kind of like miserable that we're using this comedy to put Band-Aids on."

Joe Rogan 46:24 Mm.

Todd White 46:25 And, and I don't know if that's a thing with you at all 'cause you have outlets like working out and fighting-

Joe Rogan 46:30 Yeah.

Todd White 46:30 ... and you're healthy and-

Joe Rogan 46:31 That keeps me sane.

Todd White 46:32 It does.

Joe Rogan 46:33 Yeah.

Todd White 46:33 It keeps me too when-

Joe Rogan 46:34 It keeps my approach to comedy, uh, reasonably healthy too. Like, uh, my, I always... The way I describe it is I- I make my own bullshit. Like, I don't, I don't like to have real struggle in my life, so I make brutal workouts and I put myself through horrific struggle so that regular life, like-

Todd White 46:55 It's easy.

Joe Rogan 46:55 ... the other struggles is easy. K- if y- anybody... Like, I'll tell people like, "Come work out with me. You wanna feel like shit? You wanna feel like-" (laughs)

Todd White 47:03 (laughs) Your arms are gonna fall off?

Joe Rogan 47:03 "You wanna feel like it never ends? You wanna feel like you're, you know, like you can't do this? Like, come do that." And then once you do do it, then other things feel easier, you know. It's like, like Jocko. Like, Jocko, you look at his Instagram. Every fucking morning, the aftermath. And he'll show you a puddle of sweat on the ground, some fucking sweaty kettlebells, jump ropes, dip rings, whatever the fuck it is he did that day. Like, beat yourself up in that way and then you're not mind-fucking yourself the way you do if you have all this unchecked, unbridled energy and angst and you, you don't have a handle on it. And I don't think it affects your creativity. I think, and anyway, there it is. Always.

Todd White 47:45 Yeah. It's just-

Joe Rogan 47:46 Yeah, the aftermath. Kettlebells, had a bad attitude this morning. (laughs) This, but to, to do that in my mind is the best way to deal with things that we all deal with. Everybody's got some sort of internal struggle. Everybody's got some demons.

Todd White 48:05 Dark passenger.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Yeah, there's always something. You, you... It's very hard to keep the mind on track. Very hard.

Todd White 48:10 It is.

Joe Rogan 48:10 I woke up the other night to take a piss and just a normal thing. I drank too much water before I went to bed.

Todd White 48:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:16 I woke up at, like, 3:00 in the morning to take a piss. I went back to bed and my fucking brain started racing.

Todd White 48:21 All the time happens.

Joe Rogan 48:21 Thinking about everything and I never got to sleep again.

Todd White 48:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:24 My alarm clock went off at-

Todd White 48:25 Shitty sleep.

Joe Rogan 48:26 ... eight and I was like, "Fuck." I sat in my fucking bed for hours and hours trying to think about my breathing and just slowly put myself into a trance. Nope. Never went there. All I was doing is just thinking about this and thinking about that and my mind got away from me. And it happens still to this day. Most of the time, it doesn't. Like, last night, I was real calm about it. I'm like, "It's not gonna happen again, you motherfucker. I am gonna get a full night's sleep and I'm not gonna get crazy."

Todd White 48:51 (laughs) I talk to myself the same way. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 48:53 Just give you one idea.

Todd White 48:54 ... "You son of a bitch."

Joe Rogan 48:55 Just one idea in my head that I'm thinking about things that I need to do or things that I need to correct or things that I need to work on, and then I'll get lost. And I'm like, "Fuck!"

Todd White 49:04 I hate when I think about minutia, like something I said a week ago to someone and I wish I wouldn't have said that-

Joe Rogan 49:09 Yes.

Todd White 49:10 ... or I wish I would have said it differently.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Yeah.

Todd White 49:11 Or a, or a business deal that I felt I could have done better at.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Mmm.

Todd White 49:15 And I start thinking of that. And, and, and I'm like, "That is gone. Why are you wasting your time?" So, sometimes as an artist, I try to think of a blank piece of paper and I, and I picture a hand and a pencil just touching that paper. Like, I try to go to sleep to that, just like, "Don't draw anything, don't do anything, just stare at that white paper and try to fade."

Joe Rogan 49:33 Mmm.

Todd White 49:33 And I can't, you know. I mean, sometimes it, I feel like it works, but-

Joe Rogan 49:36 Yeah.

Todd White 49:36 ... a lot of times it doesn't. Or I have an angst, you know. I, I, I probably said something, you know, to, to the wife that I, I regret and I'm just-

Joe Rogan 49:44 (laughs)

Todd White 49:44 ... laying there and my stomach's on fire and I'm just-

Joe Rogan 49:46 Yeah.

Todd White 49:46 ... burning and I'm like-

Joe Rogan 49:47 But that's also because you wanna be a better person.

Todd White 49:50 I definitely, I'm, I'm trying. I think, uh, I think moving here for me, uh, was the best thing I could have done, uh, to get out of LA. Um, you know, you're, you're, as we said earlier, you're around so many people that are, they're all trying to make it, they're all trying and this... I call it crabs in a bucket.

Joe Rogan 50:05 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 50:05 The minute you start to get to the top, the other fingers come up and pull that crab back down and-

Joe Rogan 50:09 Yeah.

Todd White 50:09 ... and, uh, and you're in this environment. And (clears throat) it's like, it's like a wolf pack of wolves, and when, when one shows weakness or is bleeding, all of them jump on that wolf and just, like, bark and bite and-

Joe Rogan 50:19 Yeah.

Todd White 50:20 ... and but then you go home and you bring that to the table at home, at least I did, I do. And, and it, and it's so hard on our, our spouses and, and they have to deal with that and how strong are they, you know, to stay with us this long and, and to deal with that.

Joe Rogan 50:33 Well, that's where training comes in, don't you think? Like, training just pushes all that out of your system.

Todd White 50:38 For me, yes.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Yeah.

Todd White 50:41 But it doesn't push it out of the system you created the mess, the hornet's nest at home and then, so I... Does your wife train with you at all, ever?

Joe Rogan 50:47 No. She works out a lot, though.

Todd White 50:49 Mine, I, I've, you know, she'll work out but not on the level of, of a, a ton. And I wanna get her into jujitsu because I feel like the movement, right?

Joe Rogan 50:58 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 50:58 Even like, you know, she'll say, "Oh, I don't want, like, sweaty people crushing me." I go, "Okay, fine. Just work with me and let's just move and get that movement down."

Joe Rogan 51:06 Right.

Todd White 51:06 And, and, and just sweat. And you'll be amazed at how much you'll just break sweat and be tired and your legs will be sore the next day-

Joe Rogan 51:12 Yeah.

Todd White 51:12 ... from just doing 50 arm bar drills.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 51:14 You know, just get that movement in and, and, uh, you know, I use, I use jujitsu every day of my life in, in work and just, uh, dealings and talking.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Yeah. Jujitsu also, it c- it calms the monkey mind, that fucking aggressive part of a man's mind where you're combative and aggressive. Jujitsu calms all that down because the kind of aggression that you get in jujitsu, like, really dealing with someone actually trying to strangle you. Like, and defending and, you know-

Todd White 51:43 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:44 ... and then trying to strangle them and trying to get the tap. Like, that kind of aggression is so extreme in comparison to the average person's everyday life that when you get through that, I think everything else just seems much more calm.

Todd White 51:56 It's the greatest feeling driving home after a hard workout-

Joe Rogan 51:59 Yeah.

Todd White 51:59 ... and you got the windows down and it's a little chilly outside and you got that inner core fire going and-

Joe Rogan 52:03 Mm-hmm.

Todd White 52:04 ... you know, you're, you're exhausted, you're depleted.

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah.

Todd White 52:06 You're just like, "Ah."

Joe Rogan 52:07 And you can sleep good. Yeah, I always sleep good after training. I always sleep good after a hard day, you know? Ju- a difficult, long, tough day is good for you, you know. It just, like, calms the mind down. When I don't do anything, that's when I'm at my worst. Like, if I take a couple of days off and just lay around and fuck off, that's when my mind starts racing. I start thinking about all kinds of shit and just, it's, I'm not, I have too much energy.

Todd White 52:31 Do you ever feel you deserve a little day off, or is that when you go hunting and you're like, "I'm on hunting now."

Joe Rogan 52:36 Well, hunting feels like...

Todd White 52:39 'Cause that's work. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:40 Yeah, but it is a day off. It's a day off of my regular life. Like, I enjoy it, but it's hard. Like, the kind of hunting I do too is mountain bow hunting.

Todd White 52:49 Right. You're walking and hiking-

Joe Rogan 52:50 So, it's hiking.

Todd White 52:51 ... for a long ways-

Joe Rogan 52:51 Yeah.

Todd White 52:51 ... carrying rucksacks.

Joe Rogan 52:53 And it's just, it's also you gotta get to a spot while the wind is blowing correctly, you gotta hustle, and then you gotta keep your shit together when you're trying to center your pin on a, on an elk's vitals and it's not easy. And it's hard to execute a shot, you know. It's, it's hard. Like, bow hunting is fucking difficult, it's not easy.

Todd White 53:14 Would you ever have thought you were gonna be a hunter-

Joe Rogan 53:16 No.

Todd White 53:16 ... 20, 10 years ago?

Joe Rogan 53:18 10 years ago, yeah. 10 years ago I was obsessed with it before I ever did it.

Todd White 53:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 53:21 I started hunting eight years ago and, uh, around 11, 12 years ago, I started really thinking about it. I started watching Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild-

Todd White 53:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:29 ... on TV. (laughs)

Todd White 53:30 Wild Man.

Joe Rogan 53:32 And I started, uh, I started paying attention to, uh, websites that talked about hunting and talked about, uh, you know, just different aspects of, uh, like, what it feels like to acquire your own meat in the wild. And then I started paying attention to PETA videos, man. That's, that's one of the reasons that I got into it. I had decided that I was either gonna become a vegetarian or I was gonna hunt because I was watching these factory farming videos and fuck, man, they freaked me out. You know, watching just abuse of animals and chickens stuffed into these little tiny pens and what kind of life was that? And I was like, "Am I contributing to this? Like, what kind of fucking hellish karma am I bringing on with the, with this, this, you know, being a part of this system?" And so I was trying to figure it out. I was like, "Well, maybe I'll just become a vegetarian or maybe I'll become a hunter." And so the first hunting I ever did ever was on a television show. I hunted on Steve Rinella's Meat Eater.

Todd White 54:29 Oh, that's awesome.

Joe Rogan 54:30 I shot a buck and we ate the liver over a fire.

Todd White 54:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:33 And, uh, that night I was like, "I am gonna be a hunter."

Todd White 54:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:37 I, I know what I wanna do.

Todd White 54:38 It, it's so much more than that, though. It's the camaraderie, it's the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 54:41 Oh, yeah.

Todd White 54:42 ... the, the fire and the-

Joe Rogan 54:43 It's also-

Todd White 54:44 ... your cooking, your...

Joe Rogan 54:44 ... you become friends with-... exceptional people, like jujitsu, right? It's very similar. Like, a person, to get good at jujitsu, like yourself, a person gets to the black belt level like you, you have to be an exceptional person. It's very difficult to do. It's hard. It's hard to, it's hard to endure and to get through the struggle and to be -- it, you, you're battling all these demons and all this shit to get to that point. It's the same thing with hunting. Like, the people that get really good at hunting, the -- especially bow hunting, like, those are exceptional people. It is not easy to do.

Todd White 55:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:17 The guys that are -- that excel at it, the guys like Cam Hanes and John Dudley and all these guys that -- Remy Warren, guys that I know, these are exceptional human beings. Like, they have exceptional character, exceptional mental strength and fortitude, exceptional discipline. Like, they're not normal humans.

Todd White 55:33 It's awesome being around that energy too.

Joe Rogan 55:34 Yeah.

Todd White 55:35 I mean, you feed off of it and you're like, "I get it."

Joe Rogan 55:36 Yeah. And also, for me, it's like, it was really -- I was really fortunate to find a place like John Jax, right? So I'm learning from a real master, right?

Todd White 55:46 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 And plus, it's been the same thing with bow hunting. I was really fortunate to learn from guys like Cam Hanes and John Dudley, learning from, like, real masters who have been studying this craft that's also the way they acquire their food. I mean, it's, it's not just hunting. It's also this insane discipline that's a lifestyle. And then when you're eating your food, like, I'm gonna give you some elk today.

Todd White 56:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:07 When, when you're eating this food, know I put an arrow, I ran an arrow through that elk. That's how that elk is on this table. That's -- I remember the hunt. I remember everything about it. I remember all of it.

Todd White 56:19 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 56:20 Yeah. It's-

Todd White 56:21 That's-

Joe Rogan 56:21 It's the best way to acquire meat, in- in my mind.

Todd White 56:23 You know, I- I grew up in a hunting family, go hunting, hunting household from grandparents to dads and all and my grandparent -- my papaw used to pick me up at, uh-

Joe Rogan 56:29 Your papaw? (laughs)

Todd White 56:31 (laughs) Yeah. I grew up, uh, in San Antonio, Texas, about 120 miles down the road. I'd be in high school at, uh, John Marshall and, and I'd get a call at noon, "Please send Todd White to the office, please." And I'm like, "Oh no, my papaw's here."

Joe Rogan 56:43 (laughs)

Todd White 56:43 And I would get there and he'd be like, "Let's go. Get your gun. We're going hunting." 'Cause he didn't -- he was a cantankerous little guy and he didn't have a lot of friends.

Joe Rogan 56:49 So he could just pull you out of school and take you hunting.

Todd White 56:51 He would yank me out of school to go hunting with him.

Joe Rogan 56:52 (laughs)

Todd White 56:52 'Cause he didn't wanna go up to the hunt release alone and he needed someone to do a lot of the work. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:55 Oh, that's hilarious.

Todd White 56:57 So, you know, if he shot something, I'm gonna have to skin it and gut it and kill it and -- well, he already killed it, but, uh ...

Joe Rogan 57:02 Yeah.

Todd White 57:02 You know.

Joe Rogan 57:03 The butcher.

Todd White 57:03 Or we'd go bird hunting a lot.

Joe Rogan 57:04 Yeah.

Todd White 57:04 I love, I love quail hunting and, uh, we'd shoot all ton of bobwhites and blues and-

Joe Rogan 57:08 How many times you cracked your teeth biting into a pellet?

Todd White 57:11 Um, you know what? I never cracked a tooth because I was caus- cautious. You know?

Joe Rogan 57:16 (laughs)

Todd White 57:16 I grew up hear- ever hearing like, "Bird's been shot. Don't go chewing your food." You know, "Bite into it lightly."

Joe Rogan 57:21 Yeah.

Todd White 57:21 And-

Joe Rogan 57:22 Isn't that funny though?

Narrator 57:23 That people still do that?

Todd White 57:23 And I would just spit some out. Spitting. Spit them out.

Joe Rogan 57:25 That's so crazy.

Todd White 57:26 And, uh, he used to get mad- you know, he used to get so angry at me when, when I would sneak up on a cubby of quail and they would, they would fly up and they'd only be like 10 feet away and I'd be like (imitates gun firing) and it would just disintegrate and he'd get so mad. He'd be like, "Let the bird get away from you, you pussy." You know? And-

Joe Rogan 57:45 (laughs)

Todd White 57:45 "Why do you shoot it that close for?"

Joe Rogan 57:46 So you have to let it get away from you so it doesn't-

Todd White 57:48 Yeah, because he would, he would feel- gave the bird a chance and it felt like you had to shoot it while it was further going away as opposed to right in front of you. And you would ruin the meat.

Joe Rogan 57:56 Well, it's because it doesn't destroy the meat. Yeah.

Todd White 57:57 Yeah. He would destroy it.

Joe Rogan 57:57 Yeah.

Todd White 57:57 And he was like, "You don't destroy them. You're eating what you kill."

Joe Rogan 58:00 Yeah.

Todd White 58:00 "And we're not here just to shoot things. You're here to-"

Joe Rogan 58:03 I've only been, uh, bird hunting a couple of times. I went turkey hunting once with Rinella on the same show, Meat Eater, I shot a turkey. And then I went, uh, pheasant hunting with Anthony Bourdain.

Todd White 58:13 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 58:13 That was fun. Yeah. And he shot one. I shot one. I- I nicked one, didn't quite get it. Like, hit the bottom of his feather, I sent a little bit of feather flying.

Todd White 58:21 Where did you go hun- pheasant hunting at?

Joe Rogan 58:22 Montana.

Todd White 58:23 Ah.

Joe Rogan 58:24 Yeah. Outside of Billings.

Todd White 58:25 That is, that is one man I really wish I would have met.

Joe Rogan 58:28 Oh, I love that dude.

Todd White 58:29 God, I wish I would have met. I was such a fan of his show.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Yeah.

Todd White 58:33 And it was so sad. My wife came in the morning and she goes, "You're gonna be so sad." And I was like, "Oh no, what?"

Joe Rogan 58:38 I found out from, uh, Maynard, from Tool, you know, Maynard does jujitsu.

Todd White 58:42 (gasps) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:42 And Bourdain was obsessed with jujitsu. So Maynard-

Todd White 58:44 Did they ever roll together?

Joe Rogan 58:45 No. So this is the thing. Maynard sends me a text message. I'm in Chicago, I'm doing standup. And I'm -- I wake up in the morning, I got a text message from Maynard that says, "Well, I guess that, uh, Bourdain versus Maynard jujitsu match is never gonna happen." So I looked a- I looked at the text, I'm like, "What does that mean?"

Todd White 59:03 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 59:04 So I think of calling him and I, I, I think I Googled it. I think I Googled Anthony Bourdain.

Todd White 59:11 Oh.

Joe Rogan 59:11 I think that's what happened. But all I remember is the moment I found out. I don't... I honestly, I know I, I got the inkling from him, but I don't remember what I read. But I remember just, just this sinking feeling, like, "Fuck." And the feeling you always have when someone you know kills themself, which is like, "What could I have done? What, what could I have done?" If I was there, I -- and I felt like if I was there, that wouldn't have happened. If I was there, I would've talked him down-

Todd White 59:37 Yeah, talk him down.

Joe Rogan 59:37 ... off the ledge. I would have been there. He's had a horrible relationship with this woman and she, you know, she was a mess and he was a mess with her, and then he had a horrible relationship with alcohol too. You know, he was a, a junkie for a long time and, um, he ... Like, when we were partying in Montana, when we, when we shot the quail-

Todd White 59:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 ... or shot the pheasant and we were eating. You know, we camped out, we're eating over the fire. Bro, that guy got fucked up. I mean, he got fucked up at a level, like, I, I ve-

Todd White 1:00:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 You know, I don't get that fucked up.

Todd White 1:00:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 Like, he kept going. Like, he kept going. We were stoned, we were drunk and he's like-

Todd White 1:00:15 And he was-

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 "What else you got? You got more pot?"

Todd White 1:00:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 "You got more booze? Like, open that bottle."

Todd White 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 I'm like, "Jesus Christ." Like, I'm sitting here barely hanging on to this log trying to sit in front of the fire and he, he just got blasted.

Todd White 1:00:28 Man.

Joe Rogan 1:00:28 He- he was escaping.

Todd White 1:00:29 (coughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 He was escaping something.

Todd White 1:00:30 Hiding. Burying the pain.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Yeah. He was, uh, he was, uh, escaping something. But he was obsessed with jujitsu, man. He really lo- he had a competition he did. He entered into competition and, you know, he was training all the time. He developed a six pack. Like, he got like really ri- He went from being a guy with like a little pouch, little-

Todd White 1:00:47 Punch.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 ... punch, little ph- fat belly to being a guy who was, like, pretty ripped and, you know, he's doing a lot of-... exercises and training basically every day. And he was training every day on the road. Look at him there, man.

Todd White 1:01:00 Look at that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 I mean, cut the fuck up. I mean, that was a guy who was not... I don't think he even got on a mat until he was, like, 59 or something like that.

Todd White 1:01:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 His, uh, ex-wife, uh, Octavia, she's, uh, she's, um, really into jujitsu.

Todd White 1:01:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 I think Octa- I think she's, uh, she might be a black belt now.

Todd White 1:01:20 Wait a minute. Is that, on the right-hand corner, scroll back to the left side, Jamie, right there, is that Joe? No, it's not.

Narrator 1:01:26 No.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 No. No, I never trained with him.

Todd White 1:01:28 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 We did some, um... When we were in Montana, I showed him some stuff. We were just rolling around a little, not even rolling around a little bit.

Todd White 1:01:36 Just position?

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 He was asking me questions.

Todd White 1:01:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 And, and I was like, uh, like, "What do you like to do?" You know, like, talking about darse chokes-

Todd White 1:01:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 And I said, "Do you know what a Japanese neck tie is?"

Todd White 1:01:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 And he said no. And I showed him that. I'm like, "If you can't get the darse, you can do the Japanese necktie." So we're-

Todd White 1:01:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 ... demonstrating some stuff. So we were, like, rolling around together on the fucking-

Todd White 1:01:52 Dirt?

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 ... on the ground.

Todd White 1:01:53 That's awesome though.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah.

Todd White 1:01:54 Right? Because that's something that you can share.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Uh, jiu-jitsu people.

Todd White 1:01:56 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Yeah.

Todd White 1:01:56 There's not a lot of people that you can get comfortable with, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Yeah, jiu-jitsu people are like, "Get on your back, get on your back." Right?

Todd White 1:02:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 And they'll get on top of you and, like, demonstrate-

Todd White 1:02:01 Other people are like, "What the fuck (laughs) are you doing, man?"

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 ... go around here. Yeah. He had another guy that he worked with that was really into jujitsu too that was, uh, you know, a friend of his. (sighs) It was, uh, it was, it was just this fucking sinking, shitty feeling where you, you just, you feel like you could have done better, but you don't know what you could have done. And then you're, you're probably lying to yourself. Like, unless I was in France with him when it happened, I'm not gonna stop it.

Todd White 1:02:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 Like, how... And it's also, uh, uh, I recognize from the, the night hanging out with him partying, like, I had drank with him before. I'd gone to dinner with him a bunch of times before.