EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,033 words- 0:00 – 1:42
COVID-era standup: testing, New York outbreaks, and why comics need each other
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Good morning, man. How are you?
- MNMark Normand
Hey, hey. Good to be here.
- JRJoe Rogan
But you in Texas.
- MNMark Normand
I know, I feel good. I got tested, I feel great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, you're clean, you're clean of cooties.
- MNMark Normand
I've got to be honest, I'm shocked. I thought I'd been super spreading for weeks.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
I just felt like that in my body, like, "Ah, I must be hurting people."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's a wave going through New York right now.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of comics got it.
- MNMark Normand
Everybody's got it. I don't want to say names. I don't know what's out, but holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I don't know what's out either.
- MNMark Normand
And it was all, it got all the funny ones, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MNMark Normand
It wasn't like, the hacks didn't die. And it's just like real comics, you know, they get Patrice, they get Mitch Hedberg, they get Geraldo. Same with corona.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, you know, the one, those are the ones that are hanging out.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, good point.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- MNMark Normand
Funny people hang out with funny people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That, that is a, like when a comic stops hanging out with comics, never turns out well.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When they kind of alienate themselves-
- MNMark Normand
Ooh, good point.
- JRJoe Rogan
... from other comics. You, you've noticed, right?
- MNMark Normand
Good point. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
They get weird.
- MNMark Normand
And we don't care about scandals or anything. If you're funny, we'll still hang out with you.
- 1:42 – 6:36
Getting “standup shape” back: stage rhythm, forgetting bits, and pre-show looseness
- MNMark Normand
Well, the pandemic's a bitch 'cause you can't do standup, but when you get that moment when you're hanging out with the other guys again, you're like, "Oh, this is what I've been missing. I've been going crazy. I felt like a weirdo in my apartment."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I've been doing these shows in town with Chappelle, and, uh, I did one of 'em with him, uh, like three weeks ago. Well, I did one with Tony Hinchcliffe at the Vulcan Gas Company like four weeks ago.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, (laughs) Ron White was the funniest ever, 'cause before he's like, "I'm basically retired. I'm just gonna fucking retire, take all my tequila money and just fucking chill out. I'm gonna sell my plane."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He started talking all this shit, and then he gets off stage. He did one set that he had, he hadn't, he hadn't done standup in eight months.
- MNMark Normand
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
The moment he gets off stage, he grabs me by my shoulders. He goes, "We're fucking doing this, okay?"
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"We're back."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He goes, "I don't give a fuck what we have to do. This must continue." Like, he was like at 10, he was at, at a 10.
- MNMark Normand
It's in you. It's like when you quit drinking and you're like, "Fuck it. Tonight we're drinking." It's the same feeling.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
You just start chugging again. You're like, "Ah!" You rip your shirt off, you look like Kreischer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you ever quit drinking?
- MNMark Normand
I tried for like a week. I just, I like it, and, uh, I'm, I feel like I'm good at it now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- MNMark Normand
I'm in my late 30s. I, I've drank since I was 13.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
I, I got it down. I mean, I'm from New Orleans, you know. You, you get after it out there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's a different world up there.
- MNMark Normand
It's part of the culture. But yeah, no, you're right. The comedy, you need it. Once you get back into it, 'cause we're, I think we're inherently lazy, most comics. We want to put our feet up. Well, not you. You're doing 17 jujitsus and, you know, making coffee and stuff. But like-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
... I feel like, uh, we're inherently lazy, but you get us back in that, that limelight, and it, it all percolates.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well, in terms of like wanting to do it, yeah.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, the, the, the juice is worth the squeeze. It's... Say that again. The juice is worth the squeeze.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like when y- if you can get back into like standup shape, the juice of killing in front of a crowd-
- 6:36 – 9:47
Comedy as a fragile art form: bad openers, environmental distractions, and timing analogies
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's why for m- well, for me, I used to always bring opening acts on the road because-
- MNMark Normand
Hmm. Oh, there you go.
- JRJoe Rogan
... well, for two reasons. One-... you wanna hang with a guy, want, want a buddy to come with you on the road, but two, you know the person's gonna be funny.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause the worst is when you have to sit there through 20 minutes of someone's terrible act and you, you're like, "Oh, no." And you feel bad for the audience-
- MNMark Normand
Right. (laughs) Oh, that's the worst.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, and then I used to feel bad, like comedy doesn't work.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "Comedy's not real."
- MNMark Normand
Right, right. "These people hate it. They'll never come see a show again."
- JRJoe Rogan
"This is not comedy. This is... What is comedy? Comedy doesn't, can't be real."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"These guys talking? Nothing can be funny."
- MNMark Normand
Well, comedy is pretty flimsy when you really break it down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
You know? It's like one little air conditioner, the blender's gone, it's all over.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
The waitress comes, it's all over. So you're like, "Damn." It's like a boner when you're 48. You know? It's harder to hold.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
A stumble of words.
- MNMark Normand
Yes, that's it.
- JRJoe Rogan
It slips through your fingers.
- MNMark Normand
It's over.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's gone.
- MNMark Normand
Seinfeld said-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
... it was like when a car train goes by, like a ca- a train goes by and one of the cars is missing and you have to jump it with a motorcycle.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- MNMark Normand
That one missing car. But if you do too late, you'll hit the-
- 9:47 – 16:58
Marriage as a contract: divorce payouts, role reversals, and the manager-spouse dynamic
- MNMark Normand
That's nice. I, I, I kind of wish I had that with like a wife. That's why I'm so scared of marriage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- MNMark Normand
Because you change so much from just high school to now or college to now, and then you get a ... you get married and then you change again maybe when you're 62. And then you're stuck with this, uh, plus size lady.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
And you don't know what the hell to do and how to get out and then you can't meet anybody new because you're 62.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the problem with the contract of marriage, right? That's the problem, is it is a legal contract.
- MNMark Normand
And it feels-
- JRJoe Rogan
If, if it goes great and you're-
- MNMark Normand
... very antiquated.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is in a lot of ways. Um, it's very good for, uh, ensuring that there's like a, there's a bond that's not just your word.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, it's legal. So if you do try to leave, the woman at least has some sort of financial recourse. In some case the men. Every now and then one of us-
- MNMark Normand
That's true.
- JRJoe Rogan
We've, we put one on the board.
- MNMark Normand
Right. (laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Tom Arnold is our all star.
- MNMark Normand
(laughs) Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- MNMark Normand
He's the-
- JRJoe Rogan
In terms of men-
- MNMark Normand
He's the broad.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who have made money from divorces, he's the GOAT.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, I think-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- MNMark Normand
... it's like when a Black cop shoots a white guy. I'm sure it's the same shit-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MNMark Normand
... with the Black community. Or like when OJ won. I, I, I lived in a Black neighborhood and I could hear the, the yelling and people were going nuts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Tearing.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Every now and then a guy wins. Who else do we know of that has made money off of like a high profile divorce where the woman had all the money?
- 16:58 – 20:32
Managers, careers, and early podcasting: Joe’s origin story and betting on the internet
- JRJoe Rogan
And i- is it quantifiable? Now, this is where I could speak, because I have the same manager that I had when I was an open mic comedian.
- MNMark Normand
Wow, that's rare.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Oh yeah, dude. I met Sussman and, uh, I was, uh, I think I was 24. I was like 23 or 24. And, uh, I was terrible. (laughs) And I was an open mic-er.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, way aware.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was driving a limo. I mean, uh, but I had a few good jokes I could kill, like occasionally.
- MNMark Normand
Uh-huh.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, I could catch a, I could catch a good wave-
- MNMark Normand
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when I was loose. And just randomly he was in Boston looking for comedians. And he had set up a bunch of meetings to see all these different headliners, local headliners on stage. And I didn't know he was there. I didn't know anything was going on. I was driving limos and I called the owner up and I asked him, I said, "I had a funny idea. Could I do five minutes tonight?" 'Cause he was already giving me some spots when I was emceeing some shows.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I go, "I got this bit. I think it's, I think it's gonna work. I think I got something." And I went up and I opened with it, and I remember it did get a laugh.
- MNMark Normand
What?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like ... I forgo- I wish I could remember the bit, but it was a bit that actually worked. I was like, "Yes! It's real."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then I was real loose, then I went into some of my old stuff. And, um, I got off stage and this guy handed me a business card like a fucking movie.
- MNMark Normand
Wow. The '80s, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was like, he goes, "I'm a manager and, uh, I'd, I'd love to, uh, to talk to you and see you do more sets."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I did one next door, across the street, uh, like the next night. And then I went to New York like, uh, maybe two weeks later and did a bunch of sets for him in New York at-
- MNMark Normand
Jeez.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Catch Rising Star, and then next thing you know I was living in New York.
- MNMark Normand
Wow. Did you fuck him?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MNMark Normand
All right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Still, to this day, never fucked him.
- MNMark Normand
That's- But that's unheard of.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, with that kind of a situation, like, that guy is r- and he, and Chandra, my other manager, they're responsible for a giant part-... of my success-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because I, I know them so well and I've been with them so much and I trust them and I love them and it's like we have a, we have a friendship as well as like a working relationship.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- 20:32 – 26:15
Offensive comedy, “punching up,” and why audiences are the real focus group
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's what, everybody's worried about the blowback-
- MNMark Normand
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
... from just being a comic. They're worried about, you know, n- uh, the negative response from saying the wrong thing-
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... or joking about the wrong thing.
- MNMark Normand
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
I just joke about all the wrong things just 'cause it, I wanna have too many things to find.
- JRJoe Rogan
If we don't keep joking about the wrong things, then the idea of joking about the wrong things will go away. It's-
- MNMark Normand
I agree.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you see Quentin care- Quentin Tarantino has a movie where a woman gets her fucking brains bashed into a fireplace mantelpiece-
- MNMark Normand
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... right?
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you, do you get mad at that or do you think that's part of the film? Do you think that this is endorsing violence? What... No, you think it's a kind of weird art-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... where this craziness is happening. But for whatever reason, because the standup is on stage by themselves and they wrote this by themselves, they're not given that same sort of leeway.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like you can't just fuck around about something and say something you don't really mean, but it's-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... outrageous and you're not supposed to say it.
- MNMark Normand
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you s- that's the reason why it's funny is because you're saying something you're not supposed to say.
- MNMark Normand
I agree because also there's layers to a movie. With a comedy, you can just yell at you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
I can just yell at Mark Normand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
You know, he, he said this. I have a clip of him. "Look at this piece of shit saying this about, you know, special needs Downsy kids or whatever."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MNMark Normand
But then with the, with the, with the Tarantino, it's a director, it's a filmmaker, there's actors involved-
- 26:15 – 46:09
Twitter, resentment, and bombing: how insecurity fuels call-outs (even from other comics)
- JRJoe Rogan
Here's what happened. Everyone who got on social media, everyone, everyone has the ability to comment on things. And some of the people commenting on things are not good at comedy.
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of them.
- MNMark Normand
A lot of them, most of them.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of them that are comics that are commenting on it.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're not good at comedy. They're comics, but they're passable.
- MNMark Normand
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
They don't do well. They don't have thriving careers. And their, their, their act is (imitates buzzing)
- MNMark Normand
Right, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sometimes it's okay, you know? I'm not, like, being totally ob- objective.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe they could have put a little more work in.
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe they could have figured it out better. Maybe they could have... Whatever's wrong, whatever... You know, it just, sometimes it doesn't work out for people.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, yeah. It happens.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those are the loudest voices-
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... against very successful, outrageous guys like Louis or like Joey Diaz-
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... or like many of the other ones that people get mad at for bits.
- MNMark Normand
It's just new though, the comics attacking comics.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not good.
- MNMark Normand
That's not good. And I, when I started, that wasn't even a thought.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MNMark Normand
You'd be like, "Wait, what are you doing? You know what I, why I said that horrible thing. I'm trying to get a laugh here."
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's never guys like Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle-
- MNMark Normand
No. No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or, or, you know, it's never Bill Burr attacking comics.
- MNMark Normand
No.
- 46:09 – 52:18
Identity politics and the “stack of coins” metaphor
- MNMark Normand
But that's one thing ... I think when you focus on your group too much, you're already fucked, like, "I'm an Italian guy, and I think this, and we gotta stick the-"
- JRJoe Rogan
The worst.
- MNMark Normand
"And I'm a woman, and I'm a Black, and I'm a gay guy." It's like, "Just do your shit, and kill it, and then everything will fall into place." Don't worry about what group you're in. I know, I know obviously some people have to make groups to protect themselves.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's so you get a free, uh, like, stack of coins.
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's identity politics. In identity politics, you get a free stack of coins if you go in with an identity. But-
- MNMark Normand
Oh, I see what you're saying.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you walk in, like you walk in the conversation as, uh, um, an, a woman from India-
- MNMark Normand
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... like, you get a stack of coins- (die clatters)
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... right away. You get a little stack, and you identify as a woman from India. Now these other women from India are like, "Oh, she's one of us."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Uh, she's on the team." You know?
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you just wanna go in there as a human being-
- MNMark Normand
Yeah, just be Jugdish.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you get-
- MNMark Normand
Why do you need the group?
- JRJoe Rogan
You get no stack.
- MNMark Normand
Ah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't start off-
- MNMark Normand
That's interesting.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't start off with a stack of coins. You gotta earn all your coins.
- MNMark Normand
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? So identity politics, in a lot of ways, is people ... They want ... First of all, there's people that want equality and they don't wanna be marginalized and they want people to treat them ... They want people to treat them well. So they go into it saying like, "Look, I am also ..." Like, uh, like, uh, gay people. "I am also a person who's gay, and I just think we're just people."
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"And, uh, I rep, I, I represent gay people 'cause I want you to know that we're just people."
- MNMark Normand
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's one way of doing it. But some people don't do that. They go into it as someone who's already oppressed, and here's ... "I want my stack of coins."
- 52:18 – 1:03:09
Coffee, energy drinks, Diet Coke, and old-Hollywood body hacks
- JRJoe Rogan
I smoked weed.
- MNMark Normand
Kahn.
- JRJoe Rogan
I smoked weed before this show. Goddammit.
- MNMark Normand
Oh, I heard that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Weed is great and it's terrible at the same time.
- MNMark Normand
It'll cloud your mind.
- JRJoe Rogan
It will, uh, open doors of your mind, but then the breeze goes through and-
- MNMark Normand
There you go.
- JRJoe Rogan
... knocks other doors shut and you're like, "What happened?" Well, you-
- MNMark Normand
It's nothing.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you let in the breeze. You let in that weed breeze.
- MNMark Normand
I wish I liked weed. I wi- I see all my friends toking all day and eating brownies and shit, and I'm like, "I would be ruined if I did that."
- JRJoe Rogan
What were we talking about right before I brought her up?
- MNMark Normand
Uh, shit. Jugdish, the Indian lady.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cunt jokes.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah. Uh, we're all in a green room jizzing on each other with the, with the truth and they're, everybody's on Twitter and full of shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
I had it. I had it right there.
- NANarrator
Don't start saying her name because she says whatever she wants on Twitter.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but there was a reason. I had a point-
- NANarrator
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and I forgot what the point was.
- MNMark Normand
Yeah! It'll come back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Son of a bitch.
- MNMark Normand
See, that sativa will get you there, Fatty.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh!
- MNMark Normand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Also, I'm fasting, so-
- MNMark Normand
Oh, really?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So today is, uh, I'm not eating until, uh, after the show.
- MNMark Normand
What a country. We fast on purpose, baby.
- 1:03:09 – 1:05:22
Sex, pornography, and taboo myths: from ‘don’t masturbate’ to modern access
- MNMark Normand
Can you imagine how pent-up dudes must have been in the '40s or '30s? I mean, first of all, you look at a pinup and they're all creaming themselves. But, like, we all look at porn so much, it's so accessible. There's women walking around with nothing on now. Like, back then, you couldn't look at porn, you couldn't ... you just had to imagine shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MNMark Normand
That's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
And masturbation was greatly discouraged.
- MNMark Normand
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were taught that you were gonna be, you know ... You're a bad person. You're gonna go blind.
Episode duration: 3:01:29
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