Joe Rogan Experience #1618 - Mat Fraser

1. 0:00 – 1:25

   CrossFit Games intensity and the mystery-event format

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Welcome. Thanks for coming, man. I appreciate it.

   4. MFMat Fraser0:15

      Yeah, thanks for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      I've watched you compete. I watched that, uh, that documentary, too. What is the- the documentary called? I forget the name of the-

   6. MFMat Fraser0:21

      Uh, The Fittest?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Yes. Yeah.

   8. MFMat Fraser0:24

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Dude, that is crazy. It's-

   10. MFMat Fraser0:26

       (clears throat)

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       The- the physical strain that you guys are ... What happened to the vo ...

   12. NANarrator0:30

       Sorry.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Oh.

   14. NANarrator0:31

       I had something set so it's louder, but ...

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Oh, okay. We're back.

   16. MFMat Fraser0:33

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Uh, the- the physical strain that you guys put your body through is fucking insane. And until you watch, like, you guys compete and do all the shit, like, rucking, like, running with the he- the weight vest on and ...

   18. MFMat Fraser0:46

       Everything. Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       It's insane.

   20. MFMat Fraser0:48

       Yeah. Yeah, the games ... So, like, the games are, like, the big competition. It's like ... It's- it's a wild show, 'cause it's ... Sometimes it's five days, sometimes it's three days. And we'll have, like, usually between 12 and 15 events over those days.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Do they let you know in advance what you're gonna have to do?

   22. MFMat Fraser1:06

       Some. Like, we might find out an event sometimes a week or two ahead, uh, but then, like, we'll have others where we're literally finding out the event as we go, like, as we're competing. So we don't even know what we're doing on the competition floor. They'll be- they'll be like, "All right, start lifting that weight. We'll tell you when to stop, when you hit your number of reps."

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       (sighs)

2. 1:25 – 4:09

   Endurance extremes: marathon rowing vs running, rucking, and joint impact

   1. MFMat Fraser1:25

      You know, stuff like that. It's, uh ... It's interesting to train for, 'cause you don't know if you're training for a one rep max or 100. Uh, you don't know if you're training for a 40-meter dash or a marathon. You know? It's ... Yeah, it keeps it interesting. Like, we've had- we've had events that are, like, 20 seconds long, and then a couple years ago, we had to row a marathon on, like, the stationary Concept2 rowers, so, like, 42,000 meters.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:51

      So, was that 26.2 miles rowing?

   3. MFMat Fraser1:54

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 4- yeah, 42,000-something meters.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:57

      How long does that take?

   5. MFMat Fraser1:58

      I think the average time was about three hours. I think a couple people were, like, three and a half hours.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:02

      Yeah, because you can't row as fast as you can run, right? Can you?

   7. MFMat Fraser2:08

      (clicks tongue) I mean, I would prefer to row a marathon than run one.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:11

      Really?

   9. MFMat Fraser2:11

      Just 'cause it's easier on the joints.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       Oh, okay.

   11. MFMat Fraser2:13

       Like, your ass goes numb just from sitting on the seat.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:17

       (laughs)

   13. MFMat Fraser2:17

       Um, but yeah. I mean, it was just easier on the joints. They did it 'cause they were like ... We tested it, and, like, after you run a marathon, like, you can't walk for a couple days. Like, your body's just trashed. With rowing a marathon, like, you're sore, but you're good to go the next day.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       It really- doesn't it really, though, depend on the person and what kinda condition you're in? 'Cause my friend Cam Hanes, that motherfucker runs-

   15. MFMat Fraser2:40

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       ... a marathon every day.

   17. MFMat Fraser2:41

       Yeah. I think if you're conditioned for it and that's all you're doing-

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:44

       Yeah.

   19. MFMat Fraser2:45

       ... you know? And ...

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       But he lifts weights, too.

   21. MFMat Fraser2:48

       Yeah. Yeah, I've- I've met Cam. I met him a couple years ago.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       He's got problems.

   23. MFMat Fraser2:51

       Does he?

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       Yeah, he's crazy.

   25. MFMat Fraser2:53

       (laughs) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       He's legit, legit crazy, like David Goggins crazy. There's a few people that I know that I'm like, "What are you doing to yourself?"

   27. MFMat Fraser2:59

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       You know?

   29. MFMat Fraser3:00

       Yeah, I- I've ... I'll watch Cam, and yeah, he runs a marathon every day, and it's like, "Why? What are you doing?"

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Well, he likes-
3. 4:09 – 6:56

   How Mat found CrossFit after Olympic weightlifting—and accidentally turned it into a career

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:09

      How did you get involved? What- what was ... Did you just walk into a class one day and get excited by it?

   2. MFMat Fraser4:13

      Kinda funny, so, so I- I have a background in Olympic weightlifting, did that for 10 years, lived at the Olympic Training Center. Like, my goal was to go to the Olympics for weightlifting, and then that didn't pan out, and, like, started focusing on school, and then I just kinda, I guess, just gained the freshman 15. So I was like, "All right, I either need to start working out again or change my diet." So I was like, "Ah, I'll start working out." And, uh, you know, trying to find an Olympic weightlifting gym is ... They're like a needle in a haystack. But CrossFits are everywhere, and so I just, like, Googled "CrossFit near me," 'cause they u- they use all the same equipment, like the barbells and bumpers. And so I just showed up, introduced myself. I was like, "Hey, like, I don't wanna do your CrossFit thing. I'm- I'll be in the back room just doing clean and jerks and squats," and, uh, just kept doing that, kinda showing up on a irregular basis, and then one of the girls from the gym who was a competitor was just kinda, like, bribing me into workouts every once in a while, like, "Oh, you might be good at this one. Give this one to try, give this one a try." And the, uh, the owner of the gym actually signed me up for my first competition, 'cause he's, "Okay, I think you have potential in this. You should give this a try." And, uh, so we- we made a deal that he signed me up and paid my entry fee, and then if I won any money, he- I had to buy a pair of CrossFit shoes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:37

      (laughs)

   4. MFMat Fraser5:37

      And, uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      What are CrossFit shoes?

   6. MFMat Fraser5:39

      I mean, at the time, it was, like, the Reeboks, like, the minimalist shoes.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:43

      Okay.

   8. MFMat Fraser5:44

      Like, I was working out in Air Max 90s.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:46

      (laughs)

   10. MFMat Fraser5:46

       And so he's like, "Anything's better than that."

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       And what year was this?

   12. MFMat Fraser5:49

       (clicks tongue) This would be back in, like, 2012. And, uh ... So anyways, I- I won the competition, got a couple hundred bucks, and was like, "Yo, this is kinda cool, like, just pocket money for a college kid. Like, are there more competitions like this?" And so they showed me where to find these competitions, and I just kinda started driving around the Northeast, like all of New England, and if there was prize money at a competition, I was signing up. And so I basically looked at it like a part-time job of, like, while I'm in school full time and broke, I can make some pocket money.And, uh, yeah, just kinda... I was like, "All right, if I wanna keep winning these competitions, I need to work on my weaknesses, get better," and then just kinda fell in love with it, and it- it just ratcheted up bit by bit until, like, I'm at the world championships and I'm like, "Oh, shit. How did I get here?" (laughs)

   13. NANarrator6:35

       And then you won-

   14. MFMat Fraser6:36

       (laughs)

   15. NANarrator6:37

       ... over and over and over again.

   16. MFMat Fraser6:38

       (laughs)

   17. NANarrator6:39

       Which is crazy.

   18. MFMat Fraser6:40

       Yeah.

   19. NANarrator6:40

       It's a weird start, man, to something that you e- not just excelled at. I mean, I think you're the winningest guy ever, right?

   20. MFMat Fraser6:47

       Yeah. Yeah, I've won, won the... been on the podium seven times, and I've won it the last five years.

   21. NANarrator6:52

       That's-

   22. MFMat Fraser6:52

       And-

   23. NANarrator6:52

       ... bananas.

   24. MFMat Fraser6:53

       Yeah, I mean, I-

   25. NANarrator6:54

       For someone (laughs) who started off as a-

   26. MFMat Fraser6:55

       And, like-

   27. NANarrator6:55

       ... lark.

4. 6:56 – 9:52

   Breaking his back at the Olympic Training Center: pressure, bad decisions, and consequences

   1. MFMat Fraser6:56

      Yeah, I'm- I'm not blind to it. Like, I'll be sitting there with my fiance, like... You know, it's just when these cool opportunities get plopped in front of me and I'm like, "How? How did I end up here?" Like, this wasn't supposed to be my life, you know? I was a mechanical engineer, you know, like, I thought my sports career was over with Olympic weightlifting. You know, I broke my back. Like, i- it was a whole-

   2. NANarrator7:15

      What did you do to your back?

   3. MFMat Fraser7:17

      Uh, broke my L5 in two spots.

   4. NANarrator7:19

      Oh.

   5. MFMat Fraser7:20

      Yeah.

   6. NANarrator7:20

      How?

   7. MFMat Fraser7:21

      Uh, just training too heavy too often, and, uh...

   8. NANarrator7:25

      It just fractured the actual bone?

   9. MFMat Fraser7:27

      Yeah.

   10. NANarrator7:27

       (imitates whooshing noise)

   11. MFMat Fraser7:27

       Yeah, like the little wings off the side.

   12. NANarrator7:29

       Oh.

   13. MFMat Fraser7:30

       And it was on two separate occasions, too.

   14. NANarrator7:32

       Oh, no.

   15. MFMat Fraser7:32

       It was like, they were like (laughs) a week or two apart from each other, and, uh-

   16. NANarrator7:36

       So wait a minute, hold on. You broke one and then you kept lifting?

   17. MFMat Fraser7:39

       Yeah, I didn't really have a choice. So I was living at the Olympic Training Center, and like, there was a lot of pressure on the program to like, produce, and I was on the Junior World Team, I was leaving for Romania in a couple weeks to compete, and, uh... Yeah, it was just... I dunno, I wasn't training as smart as I should'a been, and so the first one when I was doing like a clean pull, so just like a deadlift with a big explosion at the top, and like (clicks tongue) loud pop on one side and I dropped the bar, and like, it... Y- have you ever seen those heat packs that have the little clicky thing in 'em?

   18. NANarrator8:12

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MFMat Fraser8:12

       It was... That's what it felt like, when it like clicked and then it just like... the inflammation just spreading.

   20. NANarrator8:18

       Oof.

   21. MFMat Fraser8:19

       And, uh... And so, you know, go to my room, lay down for couple days, and then, you know-

   22. NANarrator8:26

       Get an MRI?

   23. MFMat Fraser8:26

       ... it was, it was... Oh, I knew something was wrong. Like, I've never had an injury like that, you know, I couldn't move.

   24. NANarrator8:33

       Did you get a X-ray? Did you get an MRI?

   25. MFMat Fraser8:35

       No, 'cause it was like... The... I was leaving for the competition in like two weeks so it was like too late to call the alternate to-

   26. NANarrator8:42

       Oh, god.

   27. MFMat Fraser8:42

       ... like, replace me.

   28. NANarrator8:43

       So you just... You wait, wait, do they know that you're this injured?

   29. MFMat Fraser8:46

       I mean, I told 'em. Like, "Hey, I..." Like-

   30. NANarrator8:49

       And they're like- "... I'm, I'm injured," and I was told like, "Hey, there's a difference between pain and injury." And I was like, "Okay, uh, I'll get back to lifting." And so then a couple days goes by and I'm being super cautious, like, basically stripped all the weight outta my training, I'm just moving, and then, uh... What was it? It was heavy back squat. And like, load up and you're going for like a new one rep max like a week before you get on the airplane, and, uh, yeah, hit the bottom of the hole, (clicks tongue) left side goes. Oh, Jesus.
5. 9:52 – 15:18

   Doping realities in Olympic sports: testing later, retroactive medals, and state-sponsored programs

   1. MFMat Fraser9:52

      Uh, I mean, you... I feel for him now that I have a little more life experience, and like... You know, at the time, hated the guy, um, but now that I know the situation he was in, he was under pressure for keeping his job to like, "Hey, you need to produce athletes." Like, none of the American athletes are doing well on the world, world scene, but it's like, USA's one of very few countries that competes clean, and so it's like, how do you compete, you know?

   2. NANarrator10:18

      Yeah.

   3. MFMat Fraser10:19

      Uh, so he had this outside pressure of to like produce an athlete whether it was the right way or wrong way.

   4. NANarrator10:25

      Isn't that fucked up, that statement that you just said? But I know it to be true. When you said the USA's one of the few countries that competes clean? That's... It's actually true.

   5. MFMat Fraser10:34

      Oh, it's-

   6. NANarrator10:34

      And so strange.

   7. MFMat Fraser10:36

      I remember at the Junior Worlds that I competed at, the winning guy in my weight class snatched more than what I clean and jerked. Like, he, this, like, 18-year-old kid, and he like power snatched 155 kilos. It was crazy.

   8. NANarrator10:50

      Where's he from?

   9. MFMat Fraser10:51

      I wanna say he was... Like, somewhere over in Europe, and I'm pretty sure it was like (claps) the whole podium got popped.

   10. NANarrator10:59

       (laughs)

   11. MFMat Fraser10:59

       It's kinda like... I remember like the 2008 Olympics-

   12. NANarrator11:01

       (laughs)

   13. MFMat Fraser11:01

       Like, the 94 kilo class they started testing down, and it's like, like currently it's like ninth place guy has the bronze medal, 'cause they just kept testing down, down, down, and s-

   14. NANarrator11:11

       So did they-

   15. MFMat Fraser11:12

       It's-

   16. NANarrator11:12

       ... pop 'em right after the competition or they pop 'em-

   17. MFMat Fraser11:14

       I think it's like-

   18. NANarrator11:15

       ... in the future?

   19. MFMat Fraser11:15

       ... years later-

   20. NANarrator11:15

       Yeah.

   21. MFMat Fraser11:15

       ... 'cause it's like at the time with a drug they don't know how to test for.

   22. NANarrator11:18

       Right.

   23. MFMat Fraser11:19

       And so they save the samples and then-

   24. NANarrator11:20

       Mm-hmm.

   25. MFMat Fraser11:20

       ... years later they figure out how to test for the stuff.

   26. NANarrator11:23

       Did you see Icarus?

   27. MFMat Fraser11:25

       I, I watched like the first bit of it. Uh.

   28. NANarrator11:28

       (laughs)

   29. MFMat Fraser11:28

       Yeah, I haven't seen the whole thing yet.

   30. NANarrator11:29

       It's fucking nuts.
6. 15:18 – 18:20

   CrossFit drug testing, surprise visits, and the awkward logistics of compliance

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Now, how often do they test everybody?

   2. MFMat Fraser15:20

      I mean, pretty often. Like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      Do they show up randomly?

   4. MFMat Fraser15:23

      Yeah, yeah. So we have out-of-competition drug testing. Um, you know, it's ... Like, when I did weightlifting, we, we were on, like, the NAN program, so no advance notice. So you had to give-

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:33

      Hm.

   6. MFMat Fraser15:33

      ... if you're in the Olympic sports, you're tested by the Olympic Association, you have to give one hour a day of where you are, and they show up, they don't call, nothing. So, like, everyone put from, like, 5:00 to 6:00 AM, I'll be in my dorm room. And, like, if you're leaving for the airport at, like, 4:50, you'll see someone sitting outside the dorm room just, like, looking at their watch, waiting for 5:00 AM to hit and give the knock. And, like, they'll follow you. They come with you to school, work, doesn't matter what you're doing.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:05

      Will they m- make you miss a flight?

   8. MFMat Fraser16:08

      Uh, yeah, probably. I, I'd assume they would.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      (sighs)

   10. MFMat Fraser16:12

       But, I mean, like, I remember having to talk to professors of like, "I have an exam and, like, I didn't have to pee," so I'm like, "You guys gotta come to class with me."

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       (laughs)

   12. MFMat Fraser16:21

       And having to, like, explain to a professor of like, "Hey, like, these guys are here for drug testing. I compete in a sport. Is it okay if they just sit there?" And-

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Wow.

   14. MFMat Fraser16:30

       Yeah, so the CrossFit-

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       How creepy.

   16. MFMat Fraser16:32

       I mean, it's weird. Like, I've had it before where they showed up at 5:00 AM, I didn't have to pee, and I'm like, "Yo, it's 5:00 AM. I'm going back to bed." And they're, they're like, "Yep, we'll sit right here."

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       So they just sit in the room while you're sleeping?

   18. MFMat Fraser16:44

       Yeah, they just pull up a chair and they'll just sit there as you-

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       Just stare at you while you're sleeping.

   20. MFMat Fraser16:47

       ... go back to bed. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       How can you sleep while this guy-

   22. MFMat Fraser16:50

       I mean, you just, like, put on the TV or something for them and, like-

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       (laughs)

   24. MFMat Fraser16:53

       ... you just go back to bed. I mean, after a while, you get used to it-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       (laughs)

   26. MFMat Fraser16:56

       ... of, like, the first time having to take a drug test in front of someone, it's weird. Like-

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Yeah.

   28. MFMat Fraser17:02

       ... they're inspecting you closely.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       They have to look at your dick.

   30. MFMat Fraser17:04

       Yeah.
7. 18:20 – 21:36

   Banned methods and health risks: IVs, rhabdo, and why beginners get hurt

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:20

      How can they ... I know that the USADA stopped allowing people to use IVs 'cause one of the things they said about IVs is-

   2. MFMat Fraser18:26

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:27

      ... it allows you to flush your system out.

   4. MFMat Fraser18:29

      Oh, I didn't-

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:29

      And you, you can test negative for things.

   6. MFMat Fraser18:30

      Yeah, I never knew the reasoning. I remember it was coming up-... like, those IV bars that, like, they just jam pack it full of vitamins-

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:38

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MFMat Fraser18:39

      ... and whatever, like these super doses, and it's, like, started as, like, a hangover cure, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:42

      Right.

   10. MFMat Fraser18:43

       Um, and I remember that was getting pitched, like other people around me were doing them, and they're like, "You should do this." And I'm like, "All right. My livelihood depends on not breaking the rules." So I'm like ... And I'm contacting people at CrossFit like, "Hey, is this allowed?" And it's, like, right there in the rule book of, like, no IVs over 50 milliliters or something.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:04

       Hm.

   12. MFMat Fraser19:04

       And it's equivalent to like a tablespoon or two tablespoons. So I was like, "Oh, okay. That's not allowed. Not doing that." But yeah. I mean-

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:12

       So you can't even do IV vitamin trips?

   14. MFMat Fraser19:14

       Mm-mm. Nothing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:15

       Interesting.

   16. MFMat Fraser19:16

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:16

       But you can do some IVs. Like you said, no IVs allowed up to-

   18. MFMat Fraser19:19

       I think if it's a medical emergency.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:22

       So like if you're super dehydrated.

   20. MFMat Fraser19:23

       Yeah, so like if you're in trouble and like getting hospitalized-

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       Hm.

   22. MFMat Fraser19:26

       ... or like there's a, a need for it, I think it's allowed.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       Is that ... Do they do that to you when you have rhabdo? Do they give you, uh-

   24. MFMat Fraser19:34

       I think-

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:34

       I should probably tell people what rhabdo is.

   26. MFMat Fraser19:36

       I, I-

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Rhabdomyolysis, which is, uh-

   28. MFMat Fraser19:37

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       ... what it, how ... What is it exactly? Like your muscle tissue's breaking down 'cause you overtrain?

   30. MFMat Fraser19:42

       Uh, yeah. I think it's ... So I've had it once.
8. 21:36 – 25:48

   CrossFit gyms (“boxes”) and the quality-control problem in programming and coaching

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:36

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. It's, it really is like anything and, and c- and CrossFit when you talk about like someone doing 1,000 thrusters, uh, is a workout, is ... Are they scheduled by the people that run ... They call them boxes, right, your gyms? You call them boxes?

   2. MFMat Fraser21:48

      Yeah. Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:49

      Is that like inside term?

   4. MFMat Fraser21:50

      I think that's like the coin term.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:52

      Is that dorks? Is that like so dorky that you don't say it?

   6. MFMat Fraser21:55

      I mean I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:55

      'Cause you're too CrossFit?

   8. MFMat Fraser21:56

      Well, I came in from weightlifting so like-

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:59

      Right. So it's a gym.

   10. MFMat Fraser21:59

       ... like, we, we used to watch CrossFit fail videos.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:02

       Oh.

   12. MFMat Fraser22:02

       Like from weightlifting. Like when I started at CrossFit I didn't tell any of my weightlifting buddies for like ... until they saw me like on ESPN.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:09

       (laughs)

   14. MFMat Fraser22:09

       And like I was getting texts or phone calls and they're like, "Hey, so I was watching TV today and you do CrossFit now?" And I'm like, "Ah."

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       That's hilarious. (laughs)

   16. MFMat Fraser22:19

       Yeah, yeah. That was me.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       You're on, you're on ESPN-

   18. MFMat Fraser22:21

       Yeah. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:21

       ... and you're embarrassed. (laughs)

   20. MFMat Fraser22:24

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:24

       That's so silly.

   22. MFMat Fraser22:25

       But yeah, a lot of people call them boxes. Uh-

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:27

       Uh, but you would call them a gym.

   24. MFMat Fraser22:28

       Yeah, I just call it the gym. Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       Well, if you call it the gym, I, I think everyone should call it a fucking gym.

   26. MFMat Fraser22:33

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       How about that? So w- if they go to those CrossFit gyms, uh, are the workouts like when they have the workout of the day, is th- is that workout scheduled by the person who runs the gym?

   28. MFMat Fraser22:43

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:43

       Or-

   30. MFMat Fraser22:44

       Yeah, I mean it's-
9. 25:48 – 26:47

   Fueling the ‘brick house’: calories, breakfast battles, and performance supplements

   1. MFMat Fraser25:48

      Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, just taking in enough calories and fuel for the day is, is a full-time job. Like, when I was training and competing, I'm taking in two to three thousand calories a day just in liquid.

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:01

      What's a typical meal for you?

   3. MFMat Fraser26:04

      Oh, man, you have to ask my wife that one. She, she does all my-

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:06

      She does all the cooking and meal prep?

   5. MFMat Fraser26:07

      Yeah, everything. Um-

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:08

      Do you have those little plastic things you open up and-

   7. MFMat Fraser26:10

      No.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:10

      No?

   9. MFMat Fraser26:10

      No, it's like I'll, I'll just text her when I'm on my way home from the gym, and like, "Hey, be home in 10," and then I walk in and like there's a whole plate. But like, I'm like a child at breakfast. I hate eating breakfast. And it's like, she'll have like the three, four eggs, the bagel, cream cheese, fruit, vegetable, like th-

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:26

       Why do you hate eating breakfast?

   11. MFMat Fraser26:27

       I just, I don't like eating first thing in the morning.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:29

       But you have to-

   13. MFMat Fraser26:30

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:30

       ... because you need the fuel.

   15. MFMat Fraser26:31

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:31

       Yeah.

   17. MFMat Fraser26:31

       So it's like, I'm like a child sitting there and she's like, "No, you're not allowed to leave until you clean your plate."

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:35

       (laughs)

   19. MFMat Fraser26:35

       I'm like, "Oh, shit." Like, so now, it's like, now that I'm not training as a career, like, I won't eat until two or three in the afternoon. I just, coffee, water-

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       And how old, how old are you now?

   21. MFMat Fraser26:46

       31 now.

10. 26:47 – 32:50

    Why he retired at 31: leaving on good terms, hitting records, and reclaiming life time

    1. JRJoe Rogan26:47

       And what made you decide to retire at 31? 'Cause it seems like that's like kind of your athletic peak, no?

    2. MFMat Fraser26:52

       Yeah, uh, yeah, I think people peak at different ages. I mean, like, I had my best performance ever, um, like, my last competition, but it was just time, you know?

    3. JRJoe Rogan27:02

       You were done with it?

    4. MFMat Fraser27:03

       Yeah. Like, when I, when I did weightlifting, it's like I rode that bus until the wheels fell off.

    5. JRJoe Rogan27:07

       Mm-hmm.

    6. MFMat Fraser27:07

       And like, when I left it, I had resentments, I didn't like it, you know, I cut off ties with a lot of people just because I didn't know how to handle it. Um, and so with CrossFit I wanted to make sure that I left it still wanting to be a part of that community.

    7. JRJoe Rogan27:22

       Hmm.

    8. MFMat Fraser27:22

       Like, I still wanna feel good about showing up to competitions, keep my friends, like all this stuff. So you know, like, it's been a goal of mine for a long time to like, you know, get certain records in the, in the sport. So I hit that record, and there's just been too many other things in my life that I've put on hold, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm good." Like, I've done everything in the space that I wanted to do. Now I want to pursue some of these other things that I've put on hold. And you know, like, my whole life has revolved around this for seven, eight years now, of, you know, not traveling, not going out to meals, not hanging out with friends. It's like, no, like from eyes open to eyes closed revolves around this.

    9. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       So when we talked about meals, y- you said y- you don't like eating breakfast, but what would a breakfast be for you when you were in peak form?

    10. MFMat Fraser28:09

        Uh, I mean, the typical like, probably four eggs, four or five strips of bacon, bagel, cream cheese, bowl of oatmeal, bowl of fruit, uh, big jug of water. I mean, nothing crazy. It was just like the quantities I was having to put down.

    11. JRJoe Rogan28:26

        And are you supplementing as well?

    12. MFMat Fraser28:28

        Yeah, like, just the typical, like, protein, creatine, pre-workout, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan28:33

        Vitamins?

    14. MFMat Fraser28:34

        ... a shitload of beta-alanine, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan28:37

        Yeah, beta-alanine works.

    16. MFMat Fraser28:38

        Yeah, nothing, nothing crazy. Oh, I love that stuff.

    17. JRJoe Rogan28:40

        That stuff works, yeah.

    18. MFMat Fraser28:41

        Yeah, and I can't believe more people don't take it. Like, I found where I could buy it just on its own, like not mixed in a pre-workout-

    19. JRJoe Rogan28:50

        Mm-hmm, yeah.

    20. MFMat Fraser28:50

        ... and I just kept it in my gym bag just like a scoop before every training session.

    21. JRJoe Rogan28:53

        What do you think beta-alanine does for you?

    22. MFMat Fraser28:56

        It makes me feel like I have a third lung.

    23. JRJoe Rogan28:58

        Hmm.

    24. MFMat Fraser28:58

        And then, so that, that's how I always felt it was, like I felt like I had a third lung when I took it, um, and then-

    25. JRJoe Rogan29:04

        And you would just take it with water?

    26. MFMat Fraser29:06

        I mean, I would just like dry scoop and then swig it down with-

    27. JRJoe Rogan29:08

        Really?

    28. MFMat Fraser29:08

        ... a cup of water.

    29. JRJoe Rogan29:09

        It tastes weird.

    30. MFMat Fraser29:11

        Yeah, it didn't really have much, the one I had-
11. 32:50 – 44:05

    Building CrossFit cardio from a strength base: rowing obsession, technique fixes, and running mechanics

    1. JRJoe Rogan32:50

       Do you think that having this background in Olympic lifting was a giant advantage?

    2. MFMat Fraser32:55

       Huge, huge advantage. I mean, not only am I coming into the sport with lifts that are like already like messing with the top guys, but now I know how to move my body efficiently. So like a lot of times if you see these guys on like longer workouts where it has like 30 snatches at the end of it or, you know, just those high volume Olympic lifting, by the end of the workout, they're moving differently.

    3. JRJoe Rogan33:20

       Mm.

    4. MFMat Fraser33:20

       You know, their technique is, is-

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:22

       Breaking down.

    6. MFMat Fraser33:23

       ... breaking down. The bar's swinging out. They're not catching the bar as efficiently so it's crashing on 'em. For me, it's, it doesn't matter if it's the start of the workout, end of the workout. It's like I may catch the bar lower, I may have less pull, but the movement's identical, you know? So I, I just have this huge advantage coming in that whether I'm fresh, tired, sore, I only know how to snatch a bar one way.

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:48

       Would you advise a young person, if you ran into someone, they say, "I wanna be a CrossFit champion," would you say, "Get into Olympic lifting first?"

    8. MFMat Fraser33:56

       I don't think, I don't think it's necessary to do like pure dedicated Olympic weightlifting first. I think it's n- a necessity to do pure dedicated Olympic weightlifting and doing it properly, 'cause so many times you'll see people like, "Oh, what's your workout today?" "Oh, it's a workout to a heavy single." It's like, "Whoa. What? You're not working off percentages? You're not building up to-"

    9. JRJoe Rogan34:19

       Explain that to people, what you mean.

    10. MFMat Fraser34:21

        Like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan34:22

        'Cause a lot of people are like, "What the fuck is he talking about?"

    12. MFMat Fraser34:24

        Yeah, I mean like s- a lot of people just like, "If you're trying to bench 315, you just, you don't just go into the gym every single day and take a whack at benching 315." It's like you start at a lower number and doing a shitload of reps, and then you're tapering. You're cutting down the volume. You're increasing the weight. You're working off percentages to build up to that heavy single. So I mean like when I did weightlifting, I mean, you're working most of the time between 70%, 80% of your max lifts, just dialing in that technique and like making sure you know how to move with weight. And I remember coming into CrossFit with my background, I'm like, "Wait, you guys are just going heavy every day? Like that's not, that's not smart. That's how your body's gonna break down, you know, you're not learning how to move this weight properly."

    13. JRJoe Rogan35:12

        Right.

    14. MFMat Fraser35:13

        And so I mean, it was a huge advantage coming in with my background not, and not only knowing how to move the weights in those specific lifts, but then even like with the kipping movements on, like for pull-up bars or muscle ups, it's like I know how to move my body by using, using my hips. Like I'm getting that pop out of my hips to get up over the bar. And so I just knew how to move a little bit more efficiently, and so it was a huge advantage coming in.

    15. JRJoe Rogan35:40

        Do you think it's better, uh, 'cause it seems to me-

    16. MFMat Fraser35:42

        (clears throat)

    17. JRJoe Rogan35:43

        ... that if you came in with a strong cardio base, like as a triathlete-

    18. MFMat Fraser35:47

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan35:47

        ... or something like that, that it would be harder to put the strength on versus someone like you who comes in with a strong muscle base, a strong power base.

    20. MFMat Fraser35:58

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan35:58

        It'd be, it seems like it would make more sense that you would be able to d- develop cardio easier than they would be able to develop strength.

    22. MFMat Fraser36:05

        I think, I think there is some truth to that.

    23. JRJoe Rogan36:07

        Because it's hard-

    24. MFMat Fraser36:08

        I think-

    25. JRJoe Rogan36:08

        ... to develop strength while you're doing the, the heavy cardio, right? You could maintain strength, but if you're doing-

    26. MFMat Fraser36:14

        Uh.

    27. JRJoe Rogan36:14

        ... a lot of long distance running and shit like that, you don't-

    28. MFMat Fraser36:16

        I, I, I don't know about that.

    29. JRJoe Rogan36:17

        Mm-hmm.

    30. MFMat Fraser36:18

        Um, I mean, I've, I've continued to hit strength number PRs throughout my career.
12. 44:05 – 1:11:11

    Detour into combat sports: speed-walking jokes, MMA rules confusion, and heavyweight power

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:05

       Is there anything that looks less cool-

    2. MFMat Fraser44:07

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:07

       ... than competitive speed walking?

    4. NANarrator44:09

       (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:09

       I know it's hard to do, but most things that are-

    6. MFMat Fraser44:11

       I mean, th-

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:11

       ... hard to do, like-

    8. MFMat Fraser44:12

       ... th- those guys are ... They're moving.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:14

       Oh, yeah.

    10. MFMat Fraser44:15

        Like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:15

        But they look like dorks.

    12. MFMat Fraser44:16

        Oh, yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:17

        Right?

    14. MFMat Fraser44:17

        Have you ever seen, like, the suits, where, like, the aerodynamic suits where, like-

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:21

        N- No.

    16. MFMat Fraser44:21

        I, I don't know if it was a joke if someone was ... or if it was a real thing. But it was like, kinda like the cyclist how they have, like, the glasses that integrate into the-

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:30

        Mm-hmm.

    18. MFMat Fraser44:31

        ... helmet and it's, like, a big cone in the back for-

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:32

        Yeah.

    20. MFMat Fraser44:32

        ... aerodynamics, but-

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:33

        Like, like alien.

    22. MFMat Fraser44:34

        Yeah.

    23. NANarrator44:35

        Uh, that's a, yeah.

    24. MFMat Fraser44:36

        Yeah.

    25. NANarrator44:36

        That was a joke.

    26. MFMat Fraser44:37

        Okay.

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:37

        It's a joke?

    28. NANarrator44:38

        Wow.

    29. MFMat Fraser44:38

        Okay.

    30. JRJoe Rogan44:38

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:56:39