Joe Rogan Experience #1619 - Claressa Shields

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Welcome. What's happening? How are you?

Claressa Shields 0:16 I'm good. How are you, Joe?

Joe Rogan 0:17 Wonderful. It's a pleasure to get to meet you and to have you on here. I'm a big fan.

Claressa Shields 0:21 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:22 You, uh, in a young life, you have accomplished incredible things.

Claressa Shields 0:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:28 Like, for people that don't know, you won an Olympic gold medal at 17.

Claressa Shields 0:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:32 And then you won it again four years later.

Claressa Shields 0:34 Yep. Two-time Olympic gold medalist.

Joe Rogan 0:35 The only American boxer ever.

Claressa Shields 0:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:38 I think, like, only another sp-... Like, no boxer's ever done that, right, in America?

Claressa Shields 0:42 No, just... No, not from America. Just me.

Joe Rogan 0:45 And, uh, I mean, you've gone multiple weight classes, and now you're considering fighting in MMA. I mean, you, you kind of cleared out boxing in a lot of ways.

Claressa Shields 0:57 It's always something more to be accomplished-

Joe Rogan 1:00 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 1:00 ... in boxing. But I'm venturing off into MMA because I really wanna see, "Am I as great as I think I am?" And I think I am, so I'm excited to be fighting with the PFL later on this year and just, um, taking it from there and seeing what happens.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Well, I think, uh, when someone is as good as you are at boxing, you could basically do anything you want in life.

Claressa Shields 1:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23 You just have to put the same amount of focus that you put on boxing to whatever it is-

Claressa Shields 1:28 Smart man.

Joe Rogan 1:28 ... that you apply yourself to.

Claressa Shields 1:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30 You know? There's rare human beings that can do what you've been able to do. It's a rare person.

Claressa Shields 1:35 Five Ps.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Five Ps?

Claressa Shields 1:36 Proper preparation prevents poor performance.

Joe Rogan 1:39 There you go.

Claressa Shields 1:39 So in MMA, I'm not coming over like, "Hey, I'm in boxing. I'm gonna box all you girls up." It's like, "I'm at Jackson Wing Gym, you know, with Coach Jackson, Coach Wing. I'm training."

Joe Rogan 1:48 I was... I've seen you kick a bag. I've seen you throw kicks. I was very impressed. I can't believe you're already that good.

Claressa Shields 1:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:54 It's real. I was like, "Wow, maybe she put..." You were throwing high kicks.

Claressa Shields 1:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 1:58 I didn't know my leg can go up that high till they showed me the technique of it, and I was like, "Whoa, this shit's insane."

Joe Rogan 2:03 D- do you stretch all the time? Are you a person who... Like, when you were boxing, I mean, I know most athletes stretch, but having a full split is not, uh, really ne-... It's not really required to punch people.

Claressa Shields 2:16 No.

Joe Rogan 2:16 Do you... But you obviously have very flexible legs.

Claressa Shields 2:19 I've been doing yoga for the past few months.

Joe Rogan 2:22 Wow. Hmm.

Claressa Shields 2:22 So I was able to kick high when I first went to Jackson Wing Gym in December. I was able to kick high, but not for very long. I probably would get two or three good high kicks, and I'm like, "Yo, let's bring it down a level."

Joe Rogan 2:33 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 2:33 Now, from all the stretching, when they got that pad up there and they like, "Kick it," I just do the form, and my leg can go up there over and over and over again just from the stretching and actually being a bit more flexible than what I was before. So I stretch, but I stretch more serious now.

Joe Rogan 2:50 What brought you into yoga?

Claressa Shields 2:51 Um, really, it was the MMA fans, to be honest. They're like-

Joe Rogan 2:55 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 2:56 ... "You're gonna have to stretch." And, you know, people are on there, you know, talking trash or whatever, trolls. But they were saying... Like, I read a lot of comments, and I'm like... They're like, "You know, she's gonna have a problem with kicking. She's not flexible. Her legs are big," blah, blah, blah. So I would read some of that stuff and do my own research, and I'm like, "Damn, they're right." (laughs) So my goal for one, one of my New Year's resolutions was to be able to do the splits by the end of the year. So I have a yoga teacher, um, and me and her go, like, up on, up on Zoom twice a week. And she's, like, having me do these stretches. I'm like, "Girl, you is something else." Her name is Sakina.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Hmm. Have you done, uh, hot yoga ever?

Claressa Shields 3:36 No. Not yet. I heard it's brutal, though.

Joe Rogan 3:39 It's brutal.

Claressa Shields 3:39 It's more of a mental thing.

Joe Rogan 3:40 It is brutal, for sure. But one good thing about it is when you get that hot and sweaty, your muscles become really pliable, and you can make really good gains that way, like, in terms of flexibility.

Claressa Shields 3:51 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 3:51 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 3:51 Maybe I shou-... Maybe I should try it with Sakina.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Yeah, I always find, uh, I'm way more flexible in a hot yoga class than I am anywhere else.

Claressa Shields 3:58 You can do the splits?

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah, I can do the splits.

Claressa Shields 4:00 Damn.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 4:01 You're ahead of me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:02 (laughs) Wha-

Claressa Shields 4:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:03 I'm old. I started when I was 15, you know?

Claressa Shields 4:06 So, you still do the splits?

Joe Rogan 4:07 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 4:07 Your body is, like, jacked up. You should not be able to do the splits. You should be more stiff.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Oh.

Claressa Shields 4:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 There's a guy who fights for ONE FC that makes me look like a twig. His name is Alain Ngannou. He's-

Claressa Shields 4:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:19 ... super jacked, and he's one of the most flexible guys I've ever seen in my life.

Claressa Shields 4:24 Oh.

Joe Rogan 4:24 Insanely flexible, but flexible everywhere. His spine is flexible. He can, he can bend over backwards standing and touch the back of his, like, his... Touch his palms to the ground and then flip his feet over the top.

Claressa Shields 4:37 Oh, that's mysterious, though.

Joe Rogan 4:37 And his Instagram's incredible 'cause he's built like a superhero. See if you can find his, uh, his Instagram.

Claressa Shields 4:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:43 He's built like a super... I mean, like a freak of nature-

Claressa Shields 4:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:47 ... but is incredibly flexible.

Claressa Shields 4:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 4:50 I need to see what this is.

Joe Rogan 4:51 He just puts a lot of time and dedication to flexibility. You can, it can be done. It's just... There he is. Look at him.

Claressa Shields 4:58 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 4:58 I mean, come on. And when you see this guy, when you see this guy move and you see him fight... I mean, pu-... Do the video one so we could see him... Oh, no, no. Go to that one right there with the dude with the blue shorts right in front where he, he headkicks this dude. Watch this guy. I mean, you see his, his flexibility is incredible.

Claressa Shields 5:16 But that's one thing about the kicks, though. You really have to condition those shins for that.

Joe Rogan 5:20 Oh, yeah.

Claressa Shields 5:21 Remember, when I first started, I was like, probably like five kicks in, I'm like, "Yeah, not yet."

Joe Rogan 5:25 Just the bag, right?

Claressa Shields 5:26 Yeah, just the bag itself.

Joe Rogan 5:27 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 5:27 Then when we went up to the pads, I'm like, "Coach, do you got softer pads? Serious."

Joe Rogan 5:32 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 5:32 He's like, "Champ, these are my softest ones." I'm like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:36 It takes a while.

Claressa Shields 5:38 Yeah, it takes a minute.

Joe Rogan 5:38 It takes a while. You see some people, they start whacking their shins with, like, uh, Coke bottles and stuff like that, just trying to toughen them up.

Claressa Shields 5:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:45 They do all kinds of things to their shins.

Claressa Shields 5:46 I can kick really hard now.

Joe Rogan 5:48 Oh, there you are. Look at this. Seriously. Superman punches, everything, head kicks.

Claressa Shields 5:54 The thing is, some of this stuff I learnt. I learnt Superman punch that same day. So when he showed me it one time, we just started doing it, and he was like, "You're doing good." Like, I can look at it now and tell you my mistakes.... right now, but I'm not gonna say too much 'cause I fixed them already.

Joe Rogan 6:11 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 6:11 But sometimes when I throw, like, the head kicks, my kicks would, my h- my hands would go down at the same time.

Joe Rogan 6:17 How did you get to Jackson Winkeljohn? 'Cause first of all, you couldn't have picked a better gym to, to train at, the, one of the best gyms in the world. But what, what brought you there?

Claressa Shields 6:26 Um, actually, I've always had, like... I, I, I believe in technique and training. People may look at me boxing and be like, "Oh, she's just naturally fast. She's naturally strong." It's like, no, I am strategically smart in boxing and I have a lot of skill. I may look like I'm a beast out there, but it takes a lot of skill to land those punches, body work, defense, which is... I probably got hit three times my last fight.

Joe Rogan 6:51 Well, you went one of your fights... W- What was that woman from... (clicks tongue) Oh, God, what was her name? It was y- well, your first world title fight. She was a blonde lady.

Claressa Shields 7:00 Nikki Adler?

Joe Rogan 7:01 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 7:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:02 She went a whole round without landing a single punch on you.

Claressa Shields 7:04 Yeah, and I, I, and I ended that fight in the fifth round.

Joe Rogan 7:07 Yeah. You... Anybody that doesn't think that you have technique just doesn't understand boxing. That's-

Claressa Shields 7:12 Yeah, they're, they're-

Joe Rogan 7:13 That's a g-

Claressa Shields 7:13 ... just like, "Oh, she's a woman. Really weird."

Joe Rogan 7:14 You can't respond to those people. You can't even-

Claressa Shields 7:16 Yeah, they're weird.

Joe Rogan 7:16 No, you clearly have-

Claressa Shields 7:18 And also-

Joe Rogan 7:18 ... clearly have superior technique.

Claressa Shields 7:20 I agree. No, so for MMA, I was just like... I already had signed a contract with the PFL, and now I'm like, "Okay, how... what do you have to do for the five Ps to play in effect?" And I was like, "I need to get the best trainers." And I just remember, like, in 2016, me and Johnny Bones, we were talking at the ESPYS and he was like, "Yo, you'd be the perfect boxer to come over to MMA." And I was like...

Joe Rogan 7:43 It's true 'cause you're really young.

Claressa Shields 7:45 I don't know. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:46 What are you 25 now?

Claressa Shields 7:47 Yeah, I turn 26 in two days.

Joe Rogan 7:48 Oh, boy.

Claressa Shields 7:49 Yeah. Super, yeah, super nice shit.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Well, uh, an early happy birthday to you.

Claressa Shields 7:53 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 7:54 So, that's a perfect age because you, you still are capable of getting elite at all the arts. You're still-

Claressa Shields 8:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:00 You, you could get elite at Brazilian jiu-jitsu. You can get elite at striking, with kicking in Muay Thai. You, you can... I mean, you're young enough that you could do all that shit.

Claressa Shields 8:09 Yeah, I think it's just all about, like, one, having the right teachers.

Joe Rogan 8:12 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 8:13 And also getting in there and doing it. But I mean, having a, having a body to do it, like, I'm glad that I didn't wait till I was, like, 35, you know, 36 because then I would just be starting, it would set me back and it'd be like, "I'm going in here starting new and my body isn't even in its prime." Like, right now I don't think that my body has, has, has peaked yet-

Joe Rogan 8:32 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 8:33 ... like, where I've been as strong as I can be, as fast as I can be. I still think, like, I'm, like, right there. I just haven't, I haven't touched where I'm like, "Okay, this is the best my body can be at." I haven't, I haven't touched that shit.

Joe Rogan 8:44 They think a pro athlete, th- your prime is somewhere between 28 and 32, I think they said 'cause that's when your-

Claressa Shields 8:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 8:50 ... body lines up with your brain 'cause-

Claressa Shields 8:53 I was hoping it was 26.

Joe Rogan 8:54 Maybe it is 26.

Claressa Shields 8:55 I was hoping. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:57 Listen, Tyson won the world title at 20, you know?

Claressa Shields 8:59 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 8:59 And then it's like, Jon Jones won the world title at 22. It's like, you can... Or is it 23? Is Jon Jones 22 or 23?

Narrator 9:07 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 9:07 He's the youngest ever UFC champion.

Claressa Shields 9:09 I feel like he was 21. Am I tripping?

Joe Rogan 9:11 No, no, he wasn't 21. He was either 22 or 23.

Narrator 9:15 23.

Joe Rogan 9:15 'Cause... 23.

Claressa Shields 9:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Okay, because before that I think it was Josh Barnett and he won the heavyweight title, I think it was 24, you know. But there's... it's... you know, it's, it's different for everybody. Like, some people peak young and some people they, as they get older, they get smarter, so they understand their body better and so maybe their body doesn't quite work as well as, as it did when they were 24, but they're a better athlete-

Claressa Shields 9:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:40 ... at 30 or 32 just 'cause they know what to do and how to do it better. They understand... they have a better communication with their body.

Claressa Shields 9:47 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:48 But that's, like, what you're doing by doing yoga and even by expanding into martial arts, that's the key. It's, like, keeping your body doing different things, and then you go understand your body more the more-

Claressa Shields 9:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:59 ... different stuff you do with it. So, when did you start training in MMA?

Claressa Shields 10:04 December.

Joe Rogan 10:05 Just December?

Claressa Shields 10:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:06 And how often are you doing it?

Claressa Shields 10:08 Um, I was at Jackson Wing Gym three weeks at a time. So I'd be there three weeks, go home a week, come back three weeks, go home a week, come back three weeks. Um, I was doing that because I really just... I like to just have my time where I'm at home with my family, with my boyfriend. I don't like just training, training, training, training, like-

Joe Rogan 10:24 Right.

Claressa Shields 10:25 ... shit will drive you crazy. So I'm like, "I gotta leave."

Joe Rogan 10:27 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 10:28 So now, uh, starting back in... after my birthday in April, I'll be up in Jackson Wing for three weeks, but I'll only go home weekend. So I'll be there three weeks and then go home for Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Fly back Sunday, be there three weeks again until, uh, I have my actual fight.

Joe Rogan 10:45 So is the plan to continue boxing as well as fighting in MMA?

Claressa Shields 10:49 Yeah, the overall goal for me is to be champion in boxing and be a champion in MMA at the same time.

Joe Rogan 10:54 Ooh.

Claressa Shields 10:55 Once that's done, then I don't know what else I could possibly do. Like-

Joe Rogan 11:00 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 11:00 ... that'd be, like, the end game for me. Like, that's it.

Joe Rogan 11:02 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:03 So I know I'm... I can be champion in boxing, which is very easy to do because I'm already a c- uh, uh, accomplished so much in boxing and the girls just can't fuck with me in boxing. Let's keep it real.

Joe Rogan 11:14 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 11:14 But MMA, (laughs) on the other hand, a bit more challenging.

Joe Rogan 11:18 But it's true. But it's true.

Claressa Shields 11:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:20 You know? I mean, you've had a, a couple interesting moments in fights but, you know, you've won-

Claressa Shields 11:26 I've had one interesting moment in a fight.

Joe Rogan 11:27 The one you got knocked down-

Claressa Shields 11:28 That's it.

Joe Rogan 11:28 ... with the uppercut. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:29 Other than that, I still whooped her ass 10 rounds.

Joe Rogan 11:31 You did whip her ass.

Claressa Shields 11:32 And then Christina Hammer was supposed to be the big tall giant from, you know-

Joe Rogan 11:37 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:37 ... Germany to come over here and, you know, slay the dragon. And she got beat up pretty bad too.

Joe Rogan 11:42 She got overwhelmed when she started-

Claressa Shields 11:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:44 ... clinching you. You could tell, like, she was just... When she got close to you, she just wanted to hold on.

Claressa Shields 11:49 I thought the ref should have stopped that fight.

Joe Rogan 11:50 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:50 Eighth round, she didn't respond to 10 punches in the corner. 10.

Joe Rogan 11:55 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:55 It was like she was out of there.

Joe Rogan 11:57 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 11:57 And he... And I think she jumped in, s- said that the, said that the round had ended, but it was like, no, you need to be stopping this. Like, she's done, but-

Joe Rogan 12:04 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 12:05 ... she was able to hold on and whatever for, you know, two more rounds. But I thought eighth round, I thought it was over. Like, I started celebrating. I was jumping up and down. Me and my coach jumped in the ring, we were hugging and all of a sudden they're like, "No, no, no, the fight's still on." I'm like, "What the hell just happened?"

Joe Rogan 12:20 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 12:20 So yeah, it's confusing.

Joe Rogan 12:21 That was a weird moment.

Claressa Shields 12:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:23 I- i-... Was that a satisfying one for you because she was talking so much shit before, so...

Claressa Shields 12:27 It's not even about, like, the shit talking really. It was just about, like, "How dare you guys compare her to me?"

Joe Rogan 12:33 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 12:33 That's what it was for me. It was like, I had watched film of her and I had my eye set on her since I was 17, before I even had turned pro. And I knew then when I was 17, I could've beat her. So now that I'm, you know, I was like 22 or whatever, 23, it's like, "What the hell do she do that make you guys think she can beat me?" Like, either I'm just a terrible boxer or you guys just, I don't know, think she's that good.

Joe Rogan 12:57 I think sometimes when someone's o- overwhelming like you are, the, people try to pump up challengers in a, in a way that they don't even really believe.

Claressa Shields 13:07 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:08 You know what I mean? Like, they kind of like... I'm just gonna be honest. I've had to do that before doing commentary.

Claressa Shields 13:13 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 13:14 Like, pretend. Like, there were certain dudes that I knew they were gonna fight an accomplished champion and you knew they were fucked.

Claressa Shields 13:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:22 And so you have to kind of play their strong points, but if you caught me alone and it was just you and me and it was like, no recording equipment-

Claressa Shields 13:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:32 ... like... (laughs)

Claressa Shields 13:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:32 I would be like, "He's fucked."

Claressa Shields 13:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 13:34 But you can't necessarily say that-

Claressa Shields 13:37 Yeah, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 13:37 ... because it's disrespectful to the opponent and because you want to-

Claressa Shields 13:40 And, and you're, you're in certain professional environments. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:40 ... kind of make it exciting. Yeah, well I'm, uh, I'm a hype man.

Claressa Shields 13:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:44 You know, that's what I'm trying to do. If, if Jon Jones is fighting someone and I think Jon Jones is gonna slaughter him, I'm gonna put, point out the guy's strong points.

Claressa Shields 13:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:52 I'm, I'll point out Jon's strong points and I'll point out the guy's strong points and what he has to do and what he can do and where he excels. But sometimes they don't really believe that shit. And with you, I think the problem is they're always trying to sell fights, right? But it's, it's hard to sell when you, you... Here's everybody else, right?

Claressa Shields 14:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:11 Here's you. You're way, you're, you're, you're so advanced-

Claressa Shields 14:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:14 ... in comparison, like, technique wise, ability wise, accomplishments wise. There's not a lot of competition for you in boxing where people are calling out for... Other than occasionally people start talking about Laila Ali, right? Occasionally that comes up. "Well, she's, you know..."

Claressa Shields 14:32 She's retired.

Joe Rogan 14:33 She's retired. Sh- she's probably-

Claressa Shields 14:34 And she's been retired for a long time.

Joe Rogan 14:36 ... 43?

Claressa Shields 14:36 43.

Joe Rogan 14:37 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 14:37 And this is the thing I don't respect about that, right? I hate when somebody else try to take somebody else shine, somebody else attention. You know, it's like-

Joe Rogan 14:45 Damn.

Claressa Shields 14:46 ... she's... You know, nobody was trying to take her, take her attention when it was her time.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Right.

Claressa Shields 14:51 And that's why I didn't, I didn't like about Hammer either. When I won the world title fight, why are you jumping in the ring talking about some, "You beat us both"? You say congrats and get the fuck out the ring. You know, but she's getting there being disrespectful. And then Laila gets upset because I've become undisputed champion. She's never been undisputed. And people are comparing me to her and she gets offended. When it was like, to me, I thought it was a good comparison because I feel like I boxed way better than her. And for them to be saying that me and her are equal or whatever, she should've been happy because of that, because they're giving her more, um, more props on her skills, which I feel like she didn't really have that much. But, you know, whatever. It was like, I never really had a problem with it and then all of a sudden it's like, it's like, well, she'll knock me out and my record and this and that. And I just was like, "Hater." That's all I kept thinking to myself. Hater. And I would've loved to fight her, but, um, at the end of the day, I'm an active fighter. She's retired. So when people bring her up, like, I don't want to have to keep saying that I beat her, because I think it's evident, but at the same time it's like, look, it was, she had her time. This is my time. They don't even correlate with each other.

Joe Rogan 15:58 Yeah, when was the last time she fought? Was it like-

Claressa Shields 16:01 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 16:01 ... 2016 or something? See if you can find Laila Ali's last professional boxing fight.

Claressa Shields 16:06 You said 2016. You thinking real, no.

Joe Rogan 16:09 No?

Claressa Shields 16:09 She's been retired for like 13, 12 years.

Joe Rogan 16:11 Has it been that long?

Claressa Shields 16:12 Yeah. Like, I think her last fight was 2001.

Joe Rogan 16:15 Was it really?

Claressa Shields 16:16 Probably.

Joe Rogan 16:16 2007. Wow. I was way off.

Claressa Shields 16:19 At least 2012, I'd say. What? I think-

Joe Rogan 16:21 2007.

Claressa Shields 16:22 I started boxing in 2006. I was like 11 years old-

Joe Rogan 16:25 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 16:25 ... when I started boxing. So that mean I was 12.

Joe Rogan 16:28 So basically she, she retired when she was like 30.

Claressa Shields 16:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:31 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 16:31 Which, I tell people all the time, I think that that kind of eats at her. You know, she retired at 29, 30 in boxing when she was on top, you know, and there were a lot of girls who wanted to fight her. She left without fighting Anne Wolf, left without fighting a girl named La- Laticia Robinson. It was a few girls who she didn't fight.

Joe Rogan 16:51 Anne Wolf was the scariest in her day.

Claressa Shields 16:53 And Wolf is still scary to me now. (laughs) I mean-

Joe Rogan 16:55 She's still scary. (laughs) Remember she was training-

Claressa Shields 16:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:56 ... James Kirkland, screaming at him in the corner. She's a terrifying trainer. She's an amazing trainer.

Claressa Shields 17:01 Terrifying trainer and terrifying boxer too.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Yeah. She has like, in my opinion, the most, uh, spectacular one-punch knockout in the history of women's boxing.

Claressa Shields 17:09 I said history of boxing.

Joe Rogan 17:12 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 17:12 Like, that punch there was like, what the f- ... I mean-

Joe Rogan 17:14 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 17:15 ... I dream to get a knockout like that. Like, I thought my last fight, I'm like, "That's my dream. I want to knock this girl out like Anne Wolf knocked out Monda Ward."

Joe Rogan 17:22 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 17:22 That was my whole thing. But it's like, I feel for Laila that she retired kind of early.

Joe Rogan 17:27 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 17:27 So everybody always compared whoever was next up to her. But it was like, still, you're retired.

Joe Rogan 17:33 Yeah. I understand.

Claressa Shields 17:33 Nobody, nobody... It's nobody's fault because you're retired.

Joe Rogan 17:36 Have you ever worked with Anne Wolf?

Claressa Shields 17:38 No, I would love to though.

Joe Rogan 17:39 Yeah, I would love to see that. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 17:41 I think she needs to just show me like how to sleep a girl.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 17:44 Because I would like that.

Joe Rogan 17:45 Here it is. Boom.

Claressa Shields 17:47 That's it.

Joe Rogan 17:47 (laughs) Dude.

Claressa Shields 17:48 Man, I'm talking about... This girl. Ah!

Joe Rogan 17:51 Oh my goodness.

Claressa Shields 17:52 Ah! That fought so good.

Joe Rogan 17:52 Timing, power, everything. No, Anne Wolf was a monster. And it's really interesting like-

Claressa Shields 17:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:57 ... when, uh, she was training, because, you know, her, her work ethic, you could see it when she was-

Claressa Shields 18:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:04 ... training other fighters.

Claressa Shields 18:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Like she demanded, like, some serious work from them and she had so much intensity.

Claressa Shields 18:11 It was only one thing she said one time, because I, I watched a few of her documentaries when she was training with James Kirkland and training herself. She said, um, "You want to break a fighter down and bro- and, and then build him back up."

Joe Rogan 18:21 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 18:22 And that's something I've never been like a real fan of. Like-

Joe Rogan 18:25 I understand.

Claressa Shields 18:25 Um, some fighters, you got to know which fighter you training. Some fighters can deal with being broken down.

Joe Rogan 18:31 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 18:31 But when you break a fighter down mentally, the next thing to go, "Well..."... break they body down, the next thing to go is they mind. Some people don't have strong minds to where they can actually get built back up.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 18:42 And, you know, for s- and, you know, for me, I'm the fire that I believe in hard work, but also believe in, like, "Okay, this is just too much. I gotta take a break."

Joe Rogan 18:49 Right.

Claressa Shields 18:49 You know? And I've always li- listened to my body. Like, I got fined at the Olympic Training Center for telling them, like, "Look, I'm not running another fucking sprint." Like, like, like, like, "My legs are tight. Um, I'm sore. I'm not running." And they fined me $500, but guess what?

Joe Rogan 19:02 They fined you for not training, like, n- not listening to your body?

Claressa Shields 19:06 Yeah, but they were saying like, "Oh, you need to go see a doctor. You need to get a doctor's note." And I'm like, "Well..." But the doctor couldn't get me in 'til three, 'til three days. I'm like, "Well, in three days, I'm not- I'm not doing anything." And, um, they fined me for that. But when I went to see the doctor, he said, "One more sprint, you woulda, you woulda, um-"

Joe Rogan 19:23 Tore something.

Claressa Shields 19:24 He said, "You woulda tore your calf. You woulda popped your calf muscle." And I'm like, "Well, here go the note. Give me my fucking money back."

Joe Rogan 19:30 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 19:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:31 How do they... I don't understand how can they fine you for listening to your body? Like, how do they know how you feel?

Claressa Shields 19:38 It's just more athletes. You don't really fine greats, you know what I mean? It's more athletes who really complain to get outta training, fake injuries than you have those who don't fak- who, who, who don't fake injuries and actually take the sport serious.

Joe Rogan 19:52 But is that v- really prevalent to the point where they have to fine people at the Olympics?

Claressa Shields 19:56 Outside.

Joe Rogan 19:56 I would imagine. What... That's crazy.

Claressa Shields 19:59 But that's where I was just, like, that was my Muhammad Ali moments where I'm like, "I don't care what you guys do, I'm not gonna injure myself because you guys don't believe what I'm saying." Like-

Joe Rogan 20:09 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 20:09 ... what I'm... I know what I feel now a- and, and I couldn't run or sprint-

Joe Rogan 20:13 Can you explain to me how-

Claressa Shields 20:14 ... for almost, like, three weeks.

Joe Rogan 20:15 How does, how does it get to a point where they fine you? Like, what do they tell you? Like, do they, they come up to you and they say, "You have to do these, the, these training routines that we're asking you to do"? 'Cause they're not your trainers, right? Like, you're at the Olympics.

Claressa Shields 20:27 No, we got... No, we got the Olympic Training Center-

Joe Rogan 20:29 Right.

Claressa Shields 20:30 ... in Colorado, so I was staying there, and we're in preparation for a tournament coming up. And they had a schedule for us. We'd get up in the morning at 6:00, go run, we'd get o- we'd all get on the bus to go to the track to run.

Joe Rogan 20:40 How much time are you there for?

Claressa Shields 20:42 I lived in the Olympic Training Center for two years.

Joe Rogan 20:44 You lived there for two years?

Claressa Shields 20:45 Two years.

Joe Rogan 20:46 Wow.

Claressa Shields 20:46 Yeah, from 2014 to 2016.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Wow.

Claressa Shields 20:49 So I was there, and I would rarely go home. But while I was there, that... So they had a schedule. We'd work out at 6:00, we'd train again at 1:00, and sparring at 7:00. So they had our stuff set up, and I just was like, "Look, I'll do the training, I'll do the sparring, but I cannot run." And they just were not listening. I'm like, "Look, after we get done running, I can barely walk. Like my legs is so tight, they're so stiff." And they're like, "Well, we got running in the morning, in the morning." I'm like, "I won't be there."

Joe Rogan 21:17 And they were trying to get you to do sprints as well. It's not just, uh, distant running.

Claressa Shields 21:20 Just sprint workout, exactly. I'm like, "I'm telling you, I will not be there."

Joe Rogan 21:23 So they fined you?

Claressa Shields 21:25 Yeah, once I didn't show up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:26 (exhales loudly) (claps)

Claressa Shields 21:28 Like...

Joe Rogan 21:28 That's cr- that seems crazy to me, especially someone who's as accomplished as you. They must know that you know your body.

Claressa Shields 21:34 People like to pick on the greats. I mean, once we... I remember... Do you remember that USA Boxing had switched over coaches? They had went from having American coaches to having a coach from Ireland. His name was Billy Walsh. He came over. Me and him have a great relationship now. I love Billy. But when I w- when I first met him, he was super hard on me because he just thought, "Oh, she's an Olympic gold medalist, she's not gonna listen. She thinks, you know, um, she knows everything." And that's just what he interpreted off of-

Joe Rogan 22:04 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 22:04 ... wherever he did his research at. And he came, and he came to the US with that kind of attitude toward me.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 22:09 And, um, he said something to me. I think we were talking. He was like, "It's gonna be harder for you to win a second Olympics than it was for you to win the first time." And he said, um, "You're gonna need to listen to me in order to do it."

Joe Rogan 22:20 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 22:20 And I looked at him and I said, "Well, one, let's get something straight. Don't ever fucking talk to me like that. You don't know me like that. Let's get that straight. And secondly, it's not gonna be harder to win a second Olympics because, one, I'm taller now, I'm faster, I'm smarter, and I've been undefeated since I was 17 years old." So, just the way that I like to speak things to e- i- into existence is, I told myself all the time, "2016 Olympics is gonna be way easier than 2012." And that was my mindset. So when he came to me and said that, it was like, "Whoa, wrong, wrong engine, man."

Joe Rogan 22:57 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 22:57 No. And I had to let him know, like, "You don't talk to me like that. You only talk positive shit, because what I'm doing is already hard enough."

Joe Rogan 23:05 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 23:05 "But I don't need no doubter, like, I don't need no doubters in my corner."

Joe Rogan 23:09 Right.

Claressa Shields 23:09 And that's just how I told him, and he just was like, "We'll see." And I said, "We- And we sure in the hell will see," and we did.

Joe Rogan 23:16 (claps hands) (laughs) Yes, you did. So this is, like, what you mean when you're talking about Ann Wolfe's philosophy of breaking someone down physically. You don't think it's wise-

Claressa Shields 23:26 No.

Joe Rogan 23:26 ... to break someone down physically?

Claressa Shields 23:28 No, I think it's wise to, to work hard-

Joe Rogan 23:30 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 23:31 ... and, you know, push your limits. But when you're talking about breaking somebody down to where they, like, when they go home, they feel like they can't walk, their body is sore, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 23:39 Right.

Claressa Shields 23:39 Like, to me, that's, that's discouraging. And, like, when I, when I get too sore, I don't come back to the gym and train for two or three days. It's like, I'm scared to get injured.

Joe Rogan 23:48 Right.

Claressa Shields 23:48 You know, I'm, I'm, I'm scared of having to pop something, hurt something. So it's like, I believe in recovering. So I'ma work hard, but I'm also gonna be smart about it. But when you break down somebody's body, like, it can be discouraging for some people. For me, I learn myself, and that's discouraging. You know, if I gotta go to the gym and punch the bag, but my legs is sore as hell, my legs gotta hold me up. So it's like, I don't even wanna be here. And if I go to the gym and let's say my arms are so tired, but my legs is full of energy, it's still discouraging 'cause it's like, "Okay, my legs are holding up, but my punches won't-"

Joe Rogan 24:20 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 24:21 "... won't go." So I like to feel, feel good during training. I feel like that's when you get the best results.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Do you think there's a fine line between pushing yourself so that your body keeps getting stronger and so your, your endurance keeps increasing your capacity but knowing when you're just working too hard and breaking things down and it's not beneficial at all and you actually lose progress?

Claressa Shields 24:47 And that's possible.

Joe Rogan 24:48 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 24:48 It's a thing that's called over, over-training.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 24:51 And I think that sometimes us as athletes, we push ourselves so hard and I'm one of the people (laughs) , like I didn't get a massage ever in my life 'til I was 17, and I was boxing since I was 11 years old, and not boxing against girls or sparring against girls, I s- I, I sparred against guys, grown men. Like I was 15 in the ring sparring against guys who's 28, 29, who done knocked out other grown men. I'm in the gym knocking them out. So it was like, now, I went all those years without ever getting a massage, without really stretching, just hard work, dedication and like, and like my boxing coach, uh, Jason Crutchfield at the time, I mean, he was brutal. He treated me like I was a guy. So if, if, if the boys sparred twice a day, I sparred with them twice a day. If we ran four miles, I, I ran four. It wasn't no three miles, you can be on your period, whatever. You do what they do. You don't get no slack. And also, he was the one that was like, "You better come in first place. When we're running, you better come in first place. You better whoop everybody's ass in sparring. You better be here at the gym on time." I mean, he was just that hard on me. So now when I'm at the gym sometime I'm like, "Yo, I'm not ever gonna train that hard again." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:08 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 26:08 He's like, I'm gonna train, but I have like ... I just have, like, that... I have that cutoff switch where it's like, "Look, I know that this is too much."

Joe Rogan 26:17 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 26:17 Like I tell my coaches now, like see my coach have to really set up a s- set up sparring for me 'cause I'm like, "I won't s- I won't spar." He's like, "I don't care for sparring." It's like, I get in there with guys, right, and they look at me, they're like, "Oh, she's a girl," blah, blah, blah. And they don't respect that I have power and I got speed and I got skill. So I get in there with a guy who think he gonna be all like this, and I, and I, and I punch him, and now he like, "Oh." So now he really wanna fight. So now this sparring match has turned into a fight-

Joe Rogan 26:48 Mm.

Claressa Shields 26:49 ... and I'm dropping dudes with body shots, I mean I'm dropping them with big right hands. They're throwing shots at me, I gotta be on my Ps and Qs, and it's like after the sparring match I'm like, "Damn, that was probably tougher than my fights," you know? So now it's like next day I come to training and Coach is like, "Oh, we got 10 rounds on the bag and 10 rounds on pads." And I'm like, "Coach, yesterday I just sparred 12 rounds with my dude, like you really want 20 rounds today?" Like I'm sore.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Right.

Claressa Shields 27:17 And he just like, "Yeah, that's what we got." So I, so I do it, but I also make sure that once I leave the gym, I can either go run or I can do recovery, and I always choose recovery 'cause I'm like ... I feel like that's just, that's just best for my mental to know, like all right, I took a ice bath, my legs feel good. I ice my shoulders and my back, my, and my, and my back feel good. I like to feel good training. And that's just, that's just the main thing for me, I really don't ... Like sparring, Coach, like he'll ... Coach Jonathan will tell you, I don't, I don't care for sparring (laughs) . It's not a something that I need, I feel like, like do you, do you know how to fight? Yes. So why do I need to spar? I think once I spar and I see that I'm in shape for 10 rounds for two minutes, then, then that's it. If I spar 10 rounds and I get tired in the eighth round, I'm, "Okay, I need to maybe spar a little bit more." But sparring is like the last thing I care to do.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Do you think it's because you, uh, like for some athletes, they need people to push them in order to reach their full potential.

Claressa Shields 28:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:19 But you obviously understand yourself. You obviously know your body very, very well, and you've shown that you rise to the occasion in fights and that you've been in great condition in fights, and that y- you p- put in the work necessary to be great. So do you think that like sometimes coaches have this almost like, (smacks lips) they have like a one size fits all philosophy? Like this, maybe this dude doesn't work hard enough, so they're gonna push him until he breaks, and then they try to apply that shit to you, and you're like, "Hey, hey, hey, I know what I'm doing." Is that what you feel?

Claressa Shields 28:50 Yeah, it's like people gotta realize that when you have fighters, you have to learn, learn them like you learn your children.

Joe Rogan 28:56 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 28:56 I was one of the kids growing up, you hit me with a belt, I never talked to you again. I was one of those kids.

Joe Rogan 29:02 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 29:03 You better off talking to me. You, you, i- if you, if you talk to me and tell me what I did wrong, I, I won't do it again, but hit me with a belt, I won't do it again, but I'm not talking to you no more.

Joe Rogan 29:12 Right.

Claressa Shields 29:13 See, my sister was one of those kids, you hit her with a belt, she liked the attention, so she'd do more bad shit.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Oh.

Claressa Shields 29:20 So that was my sister. People tried to apply her to me. And then we had my little brother, who I really grew up protecting, and he didn't get whoopings or nothing, which he probably needed a few more than what he got (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 29:34 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 29:34 ... to be honest. But my mom noticed that. My mom noticed that, so my mom didn't whoop my sister, my mom never whooped me, and my little brother probably had like ... He was the youngest, so he probably had a few whoopings 'cause he was the baby, right? But she learned all of us. But my dad thought that, you know, he whooped my sister. My dad whooped me one time, and I had a whole fit. I was 11 years old, I told him I'll never talk to him again, I don't like him, I hate him, and this is what... me 11 years old. And for the next few months, whenever I seen him, we went over his house, it was the holidays, I'm like ... He just seemed like ... It really messed up our relationship for a few months, and I was 11 years old. So my dad never hit me with a belt again, and this is 'cause my sister broke a broom on me (laughs) . Me and my sister were fighting, she grabbed a broom, hit me with the broom, it broke, and of course I beat her up, but my mom called my dad and like, "They over here fighting and this their second broom of them that done broke in a week." So my dad comes over there, it's actually my 11th birthday, yeah, and he brings me a pencil, "Happy birthday. You got a pencil." And my mom says, "They broke another broom."

Joe Rogan 30:44 (sighs)

Claressa Shields 30:44 So my dad like, "Y'all over here breaking brooms," and I'm explaining to him like, "No, she broke the broom on me. I didn't break the broom." My dad whoops both of us.... and I was just highly upset. And I didn't... I mean, for the next couple of months, I just was like, "I don't fuck with you, bro." (laughs) So-

Joe Rogan 31:03 Mm. Oh. He's lucky it only lasted a couple of months.

Claressa Shields 31:05 No. So when... So when I'm talking about fighters, right?

Joe Rogan 31:07 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 31:08 You have to learn the kind of fighters... Like, I'm not the fighter who you have to yell and scream at to get something done. Like, I'll get up by myself at 8:00 in the morning and go run. I'll do all the... I, I, I'll work out. I'll show up at the gym on time. You don't have to scream and yell at me to get your point across. Talk. Let's have some communication. I always hated being yelled at. But my first boxing coach, Jason, sometime... It was so many of us at the gym, he just applied the same thing to all of us, but he never really yelled at me though. And then when I got older, he wanted to apply that kind of communication toward me and that's why we ended up not working together no more, 'cause it was like, I'm grown, I'm 18, you're not about to be yelling at me and trying to embarrass me in front of the gym and stuff like that. Like, I, I... He was like a father to me, so it was like, you got something to say to me, me and you can talk. Like don't air my business out in front of the whole gym.

Joe Rogan 32:00 Right.

Claressa Shields 32:01 And so... But that's what he was used to doing to everybody over the years and I just think that... I don't know, when I got older, he just was like, "I'm just going to communicate with everybody on the same level," and he thought that it would, it would kinda be easier for him, I guess.

Joe Rogan 32:14 Right.

Claressa Shields 32:14 But it's like a different communication that we had between each other, so I didn't like it.

Joe Rogan 32:18 Yeah. That's what I'm talking about, that one-size-fits-all philosophy. And I-

Claressa Shields 32:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:21 I like what you said that it is like your children.

Claressa Shields 32:23 It is.

Joe Rogan 32:23 Every child is different. Yeah. When you... When you set up a fight, like if a fight is set up for you and you have, uh, you know, eight, 12 weeks, whatever you need, are you organizing your schedule? Are you doing your strength and condi-... Are you organizing everything or do you have someone who does all that stuff for you? I know-

Claressa Shields 32:40 I do all that myself.

Joe Rogan 32:41 You do all of it?

Claressa Shields 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 32:43 I've always done all of it. I think now, at the time of my career, like, I really need an entourage, for real.

Joe Rogan 32:48 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 32:48 I mean, I need an entourage.

Joe Rogan 32:49 What kind of entourage you need?

Claressa Shields 32:51 I mean, I need a person... Okay, a person to keep me entertained. A person to watch my-

Joe Rogan 32:54 You need a per-... Like a jester? (laughs)

Claressa Shields 32:56 A little bit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:57 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 32:57 I need somebody to, you know, wash my clothes for me, get my bag together.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Right.

Claressa Shields 33:01 I, I need somebody to make sure I got all my vitamins and water and stuff in the bag.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Right.

Claressa Shields 33:05 Because-

Joe Rogan 33:06 You need a Bondini Brown. You need a hype person.

Claressa Shields 33:09 A hype person too.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Right. You know?

Claressa Shields 33:10 Yeah. You know, just for when I'm like... I, I, I need somebody to talk to people... Talk to people who are at the door.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 33:16 Like I hate going to clubs and having to say-

Joe Rogan 33:19 Right.

Claressa Shields 33:19 "Hey, bro, I'm the champ, Claressa Shields," blah, blah, blah.

Joe Rogan 33:21 Right.

Claressa Shields 33:21 It's like-

Joe Rogan 33:22 You need someone to do that for you.

Claressa Shields 33:22 ... you should know who I am. Like I just get mad, so I would, I would rather have somebody right there who's like, "Hey, man, it's the champ. Look at her belts." Just holding the belts and-

Joe Rogan 33:29 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 33:29 ... you know? So I don't have to say the shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:32 Right. Just walk in with all the belts.

Claressa Shields 33:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:34 Just carry them on both arms.

Claressa Shields 33:35 Just to get the respect, you know? But I think I need like maybe like a five, six people entourage.

Joe Rogan 33:41 The problem is-

Claressa Shields 33:42 It costs, huh?

Joe Rogan 33:43 It's not just that it costs. Then you have, you have psychological issues. You have all these people around you and you have to-

Claressa Shields 33:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:49 ... you manage the ecosystem of all these people.

Claressa Shields 33:52 I'm not gonna manage nothing.

Joe Rogan 33:52 And so they don't, they don't get along with them and e-

Claressa Shields 33:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:55 One person doesn't get along with another person, then they come to you, "Claressa, this girl's fucking up," and this and that.

Claressa Shields 34:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:01 You know what I mean? And then you have to deal with that. And if-

Claressa Shields 34:03 That's why I only have one person with me.

Joe Rogan 34:05 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 34:05 I just got an assistant my last fight. Her name's Lia and she was so helpful throughout my camp.

Joe Rogan 34:10 Perfect.

Claressa Shields 34:11 Oh, my God. Just-

Joe Rogan 34:11 Keep her. Just, just one.

Claressa Shields 34:13 But then, well, like, when she doesn't feel like dealing with me, then what?

Joe Rogan 34:16 Well, then get a new Aliyah.

Claressa Shields 34:17 No.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Get a new Lia. Get a final-

Claressa Shields 34:18 No, I mean like dealing with me as far as like, you know-

Joe Rogan 34:20 Final, final-

Claressa Shields 34:20 ... I can get-

Joe Rogan 34:20 I know.

Claressa Shields 34:20 ... pretty like shut down when it get close to the fight, like-

Joe Rogan 34:23 Right. Well, she should understand you. She's gotta learn that.

Claressa Shields 34:26 Uh, a little. But it's like sometimes I wanna talk, sometimes I don't.

Joe Rogan 34:28 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 34:29 And it's like she don't know which one. Like my best friend, Nini, she's... If she was able to be in camp with me, everything will work out perfectly fine.

Joe Rogan 34:35 What does Nini do?

Claressa Shields 34:36 Nini has a, uh... What are those things called that take care of older people?

Joe Rogan 34:44 Uh, like a rest home?

Claressa Shields 34:47 Yeah. She owns one of those.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Oh, okay.

Claressa Shields 34:49 So she does like a lot of like-

Joe Rogan 34:50 So she's busy?

Claressa Shields 34:51 Yeah, she's busy.

Joe Rogan 34:52 She-

Claressa Shields 34:52 And she's pregnant right now.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Oh, she's double busy?

Claressa Shields 34:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:54 So Nini can't come with you on the road?

Claressa Shields 34:56 No, can't come with me on the road.

Joe Rogan 34:56 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 34:57 I wish.

Joe Rogan 34:58 But it is a thing, right? Like you need to manage to have as... The, the least amount of stress and problems in your camp as humanly possible, right?

Claressa Shields 35:07 Yeah. And that's what I've been doing for so many years, but then sometimes it's like, is it really this lonely at the top?

Joe Rogan 35:12 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 35:13 You know? And it's like-

Joe Rogan 35:13 It is. Everybody says it, right?

Claressa Shields 35:15 Yeah, but do... It gotta be true?

Joe Rogan 35:17 (laughs) I think it does. Because there's, there's no one-

Claressa Shields 35:21 I mean, Floyd isn't lonely.

Joe Rogan 35:22 Floyd? Yeah.

Claressa Shields 35:23 He got like an entourage everywhere he go.

Joe Rogan 35:25 He's figured it out.

Claressa Shields 35:26 And that's why I need to talk to him.

Joe Rogan 35:28 Yeah. But-

Claressa Shields 35:29 And ask him like, "What is the... What is the secret?"

Joe Rogan 35:30 He's a unique dude though. He's figured out a lot of things in a-

Claressa Shields 35:33 He's a Pisces.

Joe Rogan 35:33 ... in a different way.

Claressa Shields 35:34 We're all unique.

Joe Rogan 35:34 Uh, I don't know about all that.

Claressa Shields 35:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:36 That Pisces shit.

Claressa Shields 35:37 Hater.

Joe Rogan 35:37 That's not... (laughs) I'm not a hater, but I'm just thinking like what Floyd has done that's very u-... First of all, Floyd figured out a way to fight defensively but still be exciting because people want him to lose. Like Floyd, if you go back to Pretty Boy Floyd-

Claressa Shields 35:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:51 ... when he was younger, he was very aggressive and-

Claressa Shields 35:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:53 ... he knocked a lot of guys out, then had a lot of hand problems.

Claressa Shields 35:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Then as he gets older, fights far more defensively, but talks way more shit and shows all his watches and shows all his money and shows all his jets and all that shit, and people want him to lose-

Claressa Shields 36:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:08 ... because he's so flashy. But people were paying money to see all these different people beat him, so he made more money by fighting defensively responsibly and by fighting like... You, you, you go through the history of boxing, there's never been a single human being that won as many titles as Floyd in men's boxing that has been hit as few times as he has. I mean-

Claressa Shields 36:31 It's probably true.

Joe Rogan 36:33 50 and 0. 49 and Conor Gr-... Conor McGregor. 50... The 50th fight, it's like-

Claressa Shields 36:38 I mean, he went nine rounds, 50.

Joe Rogan 36:40 It's real, but Conor had zero professional boxing fights. It's almost unfair. But it was a fight and Conor can crack. H- you know, as a MMA fighter, he's a good fighter. He's a very good fighter. But Floyd went all those fights against... I mean, the only times he ever got hit, Maidana hit him. Um, Sugar Shane Mosley hit him. Demarcus Corley hit him. He had a few fights-

Claressa Shields 37:01 Demarcus Corley.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Yeah. Chop Chop Corley.

Claressa Shields 37:03 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:04 Remember him?

Claressa Shields 37:04 I'm not even talking about... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:05 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 37:05 Chop Chop.

Joe Rogan 37:05 He caught him.

Claressa Shields 37:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 37:06 He caught Floyd. He had him in trouble.... but Floyd was so clever. He was so s- even when he got hit, he just knew how to protect himself.

Claressa Shields 37:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:14 And then he slowly started putting all their moves and their distance and their timing into his computer, and next thing you know, he's shutting them down. And that's what he did-

Claressa Shields 37:22 He learned his body, though.

Joe Rogan 37:23 ... with Sugar Shane. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 37:24 He learned it as he got older. He's seeing like, "Okay, I may not be as fast as I was here, but I'm still- I can still do this, I can-

Joe Rogan 37:29 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 37:29 ... still do that." I mean, I think his eyes is like what... His eyes is what set him apart from-

Joe Rogan 37:36 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 37:36 ... everybody. Like, you s- you, you know, when he fought against Canelo, I'm like, "Canelo's a great fighter."

Joe Rogan 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 37:41 Even though he was younger, it still was like, Canelo's a great fighter. And I, I thought it w- I, I thought it was too early for Canelo, but I was still excited to see the fight. And just the way that he went out there and, and, you know, schooled him defensively and offensively, I was like, "Man."

Joe Rogan 37:55 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 37:56 But to see, like, Canelo now and people say, "Oh, you know, he could beat Floyd," and it's like, he still can't. Because Floyd, the way that his mind works, the way that mine works, if I get in there with you one time, I learn you, the next fight will be easier.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Don't you think Canelo's way different now, though?

Claressa Shields 38:14 He's way different, but still cannot underestimate the skill of Floyd.

Joe Rogan 38:18 You can't. No, I agree with you. But I think Floyd did a smart thing. One, he made Canelo cut weight, so he made him, I think he got down to 152, right? Wasn't that the, the weight they agreed to?

Claressa Shields 38:30 Yeah, but it was a fight at 54. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:32 Right, but he made him, didn't he fight him, make him fight at 152?

Claressa Shields 38:35 He, I think he made him, may- he ma- made him drop two more-

Joe Rogan 38:37 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 38:37 ... pounds or some shit like that.

Joe Rogan 38:38 It was just very clever. Caught him when he was young, which is very clever. He's done that with a lot of fighters, like he done smart things, like Manny Pacquiao, waits and waits and waits and waits, doesn't-

Claressa Shields 38:47 He wouldn't be M-

Joe Rogan 38:47 ... set the fight up.

Claressa Shields 38:48 He wouldn't be-

Joe Rogan 38:48 Maybe.

Claressa Shields 38:49 ... Manny Pacquiao like that anyway, though.

Joe Rogan 38:50 Maybe he would have. Maybe he would have. But the way-

Claressa Shields 38:52 Maybe-

Joe Rogan 38:52 ... he did-

Claressa Shields 38:53 ... or, or, or would he have?

Joe Rogan 38:54 He, listen, he won. They fought, he won. That's all we know.

Claressa Shields 38:57 And Pacquiao got so many excuses after, like, look, you can't have an excuse of, "Oh, Pacquiao's old," but then Pacquiao comes back and beat Keith Thurman-

Joe Rogan 39:04 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 39:04 ... and everybody like, "Oh, Pacquiao's not-

Joe Rogan 39:05 Right.

Claressa Shields 39:06 ... old no more." It's like, nah, he's old. He's still a good fighter and he beat a young fighter like Keith Thurman. Floyd Mayweather is just that great.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Well, I, I agree. Listen, I'm a gigantic Floyd Mayweather fan.

Claressa Shields 39:16 Oh, we agree.

Joe Rogan 39:16 I'm just saying, he's clever in when he schedules these matchups. Like, he didn't catch Manny Pacquiao when Manny Pacquiao was in his prime. He caught him after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked him out. He was smart.

Claressa Shields 39:27 Did he?

Joe Rogan 39:27 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 39:27 He fought him after the knockout?

Joe Rogan 39:28 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes.

Claressa Shields 39:32 Are you sure?

Joe Rogan 39:32 Yeah, I'm sure. We can go look. We'll pull it up.

Claressa Shields 39:36 Yeah, look that up.

Joe Rogan 39:37 I'm-

Claressa Shields 39:37 So, wait.

Joe Rogan 39:37 99% positive.

Claressa Shields 39:38 So, Floyd, so, so you're saying-

Joe Rogan 39:40 My-

Claressa Shields 39:40 ... that-

Joe Rogan 39:41 I'm just saying Floyd is the, he's the cleverest guy in boxing.

Claressa Shields 39:44 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 39:44 ... in terms of how to do things-

Claressa Shields 39:46 A millionaire, I need to get mine-

Joe Rogan 39:46 ... and when to do things. I mean, he's made the most, he's made a billion.

Claressa Shields 39:49 Yeah, a lot of money.

Joe Rogan 39:50 He's made a billion dollars in boxing. Who the fuck's ever done that? I think he's the only one.

Claressa Shields 39:54 Yeah, he probably the only one for me.

Joe Rogan 39:55 Yeah, he's the only one. Uh, l- p- did you got his schedule? Uh, for some reason it doesn't have his, uh, fight history- What? ... and his-

Claressa Shields 40:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:02 That's outrageous. ... Wikipedia.

Claressa Shields 40:03 Go on there and... It doesn't have his-

Joe Rogan 40:04 How is that, how is that possible?

Claressa Shields 40:04 If you go on BoxRec to Manny Pacquiao and down-

Joe Rogan 40:06 That can't be true.

Claressa Shields 40:07 ... and see before Flo- before he fought Manny-

Joe Rogan 40:08 It's not in there. Wikipedia doesn't have his- It's not in there. It's like they're not there. What? That's the, it has his election stuff.

Claressa Shields 40:14 What is this?

Joe Rogan 40:15 Election stuff? Yeah, I don't- What are you talking about?

Claressa Shields 40:17 Um-

Joe Rogan 40:17 I don't- What election stuff?

Claressa Shields 40:18 Um, Manny Pacquiao's-

Joe Rogan 40:19 From the Philippines.

Claressa Shields 40:19 ... the president, right?

Joe Rogan 40:20 Oh, oh, oh, oh. Well, go to Floyd Mayweather.

Claressa Shields 40:22 But wait, no, you need to go to BoxRec.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Well, you want me to see w- it was the order of this. It would just show Pacquiao. That's right. You're right. So it doesn't, literally doesn't have his professional boxing record? Not in the order, like it doesn't- Wow. I don't know why. That's strange. Give me a second. I'll find out on the side.

Claressa Shields 40:34 Yeah, if you go to BoxRec, it should have it on there.

Joe Rogan 40:36 That's the strangest shit I've ever heard. Why, how, how could they only have his, his election shit from the Philippines and not have his boxing record in his Wikipedia? That's crazy. Oh, here we go.

Claressa Shields 40:46 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 40:47 It's not there. It's not there. Yeah. See, there it is.

Claressa Shields 40:50 Oh, so they fought twice and then he fought Floyd Mayweather?

Joe Rogan 40:53 Yeah. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 40:53 So wait, he got knocked out by Manuel Marquez in 2012?

Joe Rogan 40:56 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 40:58 Wait, they fought three times, though.

Joe Rogan 40:59 Yeah, they fought three times.

Claressa Shields 41:00 So where's the third one at?

Joe Rogan 41:01 The third one is, uh ... Four? There it is.

Claressa Shields 41:06 Oh, wow. Wow, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 41:09 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 41:10 They don't tell you about that-

Joe Rogan 41:10 Well, that was the big-

Claressa Shields 41:11 ... on the internet.

Joe Rogan 41:11 ... that was the big criticism for Floyd, was that he fought him after he was done supposedly-

Claressa Shields 41:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:16 ... and Marquez knocked him out, but, mm, you know. But there's also a lot of shit going on with that fight, because that was when Marquez started working out with Manny Pacquiao's old trainer, who, uh, many people accused of, uh, using magical supplements.

Claressa Shields 41:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:32 And, uh, they, they had said that he had used them on Manny, and then Manny stopped using them, and then Marquez started using them.

Claressa Shields 41:39 But that was another thing that they were saying, like, Floyd didn't want to fight Manny Pacquiao 'cause he didn't know if he was clean.

Joe Rogan 41:44 Right. Well, he won-

Claressa Shields 41:45 Which that's a legitimate statement.

Joe Rogan 41:47 It's a legitimate, yeah. It's legitimate. I mean, he won eight different world titles in eight different weight classes, which is kinda crazy. To carry his power all throughout, you know, a- all those different weight classes, it's pretty nuts.

Claressa Shields 41:59 He just got better as time went on, though.

Joe Rogan 42:01 That's true, too. But-

Claressa Shields 42:01 I mean, uh, even his technique, he worked with Freddie Roach and-

Joe Rogan 42:04 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 42:04 ... I don't know, I watched Manny Pacquiao, and to me, he's just like a fighter who comes forward and throw a lot of punches. But, I mean, the dude got like some great footwork, though.

Joe Rogan 42:13 Oh, yeah.

Claressa Shields 42:14 And, and like a really good jab.

Joe Rogan 42:15 He's got calves that are like that big.

Claressa Shields 42:17 I mean, like he got, he got calves like he plays soccer or something.

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah, it's crazy.

Claressa Shields 42:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:20 Well, I think that's a lot of his power, right? It's his-

Claressa Shields 42:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:23 ... his, his movement and also his, his ability to j- thrust off and drive off those calves and legs.

Claressa Shields 42:29 Mm-kay.

Joe Rogan 42:29 But he's a great fighter. I mean, there's no doubt about it, and bottom line is they fought once, Floyd beat him. They're talking about fighting again. I mean, I think at this point in time, Floyd's just collecting checks, right? He's willing to fight YouTube stars and-

Claressa Shields 42:42 He's doing it for entertainment.

Joe Rogan 42:43 ... anybody else. He's just having fun.

Claressa Shields 42:44 Us as fighters, we like to have that attention and spotlight. Right? So after you see other fighters getting that attention that you used to get, you always feel like, "You know what? Maybe I shou-" You, you really want those eyeballs and you want that attention. It's kinda like how we feel about Instagram or Twitter, those endorphins.

Joe Rogan 43:02 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 43:03 You know? Us, us as fighters get that from fans.

Joe Rogan 43:06 Right.

Claressa Shields 43:07 And that's probably what-... um, led me to do MMA. After not fighting for 14 months and having the opportunity to come to MMA, it's like, okay, now I get double opportunities to impress my fans now, to do MMA, and then also do boxing. It's like double after not fighting for a long time, so I'm kinda getting all the, getting all the stuff that I need back, you know-

Joe Rogan 43:27 Right.

Claressa Shields 43:27 ... all the attention and all the eyes. But us as fighters, sometimes we need that. That's why it's hard for us to retire.

Joe Rogan 43:32 That's probably also why Laila Ali started talking shit about you.

Claressa Shields 43:36 Hmm, probably.

Joe Rogan 43:38 Probably. (laughs)

Claressa Shields 43:40 (laughs) She didn't talk shit to nobody else (laughs) a- after all these 13 years.

Joe Rogan 43:43 Well, there's no one else that's gonna get any attention. The thing is like, look, let's, let's go over the history of like famous women boxers, right?

Claressa Shields 43:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:50 You had, uh, Christy Martin was one of the most high profile ones 'cause she was out there. But Lucia Rijker was the one that she was always scared of. Lu- Lucia Rijker was the killer.

Claressa Shields 44:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:00 She was, uh, a woman from Holland who was fucking a lot of girls up.

Claressa Shields 44:05 I love Lucia Rijker. She was my idol.

Joe Rogan 44:06 And she's a beast, she was a beast.

Claressa Shields 44:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:08 And, uh, she was also a Muay Thai champion.

Claressa Shields 44:10 Yep.

Joe Rogan 44:10 And, uh, or maybe Dutch kickboxing, but either way, um, when she went and tried to get that fight, they never, they never made that fight.

Claressa Shields 44:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:19 So there's always like women fighters have always, uh, from, you know, unfortunate reasons, have had a limited number of rivals. There's not a lot of like high profile people like you out there.

Claressa Shields 44:30 I feel like that's not true though.

Joe Rogan 44:32 Well, who's a, who's a high profile like you in women's boxing?

Claressa Shields 44:34 I mean, we're talking about me, but I mean-

Joe Rogan 44:36 Right, but that's what I'm saying. Sh-

Claressa Shields 44:37 I'm talking about-

Joe Rogan 44:37 Christy Martin in the day-

Claressa Shields 44:38 Or like back in the day-

Joe Rogan 44:40 ... was very high profile.

Claressa Shields 44:40 ... they didn't put a lot of women on TV, so-

Joe Rogan 44:42 Right.

Claressa Shields 44:43 ... the only that you seen, Ch- Christy Martin name came fighting on the undercard of Mike Tyson.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Right.

Claressa Shields 44:48 And then La- Laila Ali came fighting on, you know, her, um, well, from her dad name, Muhammad Ali.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 44:54 Then we got Ann Wolfe, who people still don't know.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Right.

Claressa Shields 44:57 You know, which was like, but she was a killer. And Lucia Rijker, who people still don't know.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 45:02 But I feel like if they would put the, put the backing behind women's boxing to where there was a lot of good girls who were good, but never got that TV exposure. I mean, we're talking about Kalisha West. You probably never heard of her, but she was a hell of a fighter. Um, so many, uh, let me ... La- La- Laticha Robinson. Right now, we got Amanda Serrano, but Amanda Serrano been around for a lot of years. Just now starting to get her, you know, starting to get her popularity up. Heather Hardy, myself, Katie Taylor. Cecilia been around for a long time, Cecilia Braekhus, but people still don't know her in America.

Joe Rogan 45:41 But that's what I'm saying.

Claressa Shields 45:42 Right, but we weren't given the opportunity early on to where if we would've fought on TV on every man's card have a woman undercard or something-

Joe Rogan 45:49 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 45:49 ... w- women's boxing would be a lot bigger. So even though people, you know, look at me like, "Oh, you're the biggest women's boxing star that they, that they have," I had the Olympics. And not on Professional, I had Showtime. I fought on The Zone, I fought on HBO. I've had all these different opportunities to be in front of so many different eyeballs to where now ... And I also do other stuff outside of boxing that other wo- uh, women fighters just not gonna do. Like I go to m- I go to MMA fights, you know, and I sit ringside, I watch. Um, I called out Amanda Nunes to a boxing match. I mean, shit like that that women fighters just don't feel like they need to do or that they wanna do because it's not looked at as ladylike.

Joe Rogan 46:29 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 46:29 You know, talking trash is not ladylike. Being, being confident is not ladylike. That's what they say. I'm one of the most known female fighters because I do that. And I'm confident, not on accident, but on purpose. Like, that's who I am. But when other women did it, they were told to, "Oh, calm down. Be nicer." Even at the beginning of my career, I had a agent who told me, "Can we find a, can we find a happy medium?" And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 46:56 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 46:56 ... "What the hell you talking about?" And it was like my opponent was disrespectful to me, the girl I knocked out in the fifth round-

Joe Rogan 47:01 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 47:01 ... Nikki Adler. She said she didn't even watch film of me before she came to America to fight me. She said she coming to defend her title, title and go back home. So it was like, hold on.

Joe Rogan 47:09 Probably should've watched some film.

Claressa Shields 47:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:11 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 47:11 You should have. But she came out there and it was like, to me, it was like, I done won the Olympics twice. And now I'm 4 and 0 getting ready to fight against you for a world title, 3 and 0. And you telling me that you didn't watch no film. I, I felt super disrespected. So they wanted me to be all nice to her. And I kept telling them like, "No, I'm fucking her up." I don't like-

Joe Rogan 47:30 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 47:30 I don't care. Like she gotta pay for disrespecting me.

Joe Rogan 47:34 I agree with everything you said, everything. But w- what I'm saying though, you've actually kind of proven my point.

Claressa Shields 47:40 What?

Joe Rogan 47:40 That just there's-

Claressa Shields 47:41 Being the most highest?

Joe Rogan 47:41 ... there's not that many high profile women fighters.

Claressa Shields 47:45 Well, maybe I was saying-

Joe Rogan 47:46 So-

Claressa Shields 47:46 ... it's not that many high profile fighters, but it was a lot of great women fighters-

Joe Rogan 47:50 Yes.

Claressa Shields 47:50 ... which is-

Joe Rogan 47:50 No, I'm sure.

Claressa Shields 47:51 ... people don't know about.

Joe Rogan 47:52 Well, there's a lot of great fighters, period, that people don't know about-

Claressa Shields 47:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:55 ... even in boxing, in male boxing and e- even in MMA.

Claressa Shields 47:58 In male boxing?

Joe Rogan 48:00 In male boxing, sure. There's, look, there's people running around out there who, uh, who, who don't know Errol Spence. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 48:07 Who don't know Errol Spence?

Joe Rogan 48:09 Regular people. Like if you think about how many people knew Sugar Ray Leonard when he was at the top-

Claressa Shields 48:12 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:13 ... and compare it to today-

Claressa Shields 48:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:15 ... I think there's almost too much shit going on today in terms of-

Claressa Shields 48:18 There's so many, I mean, it's-

Joe Rogan 48:19 ... too many things.

Claressa Shields 48:19 ... too many networks and too many built organizations.

Joe Rogan 48:21 Yeah. Yeah, there's so much going on out there.

Claressa Shields 48:24 Yeah. I agree.

Joe Rogan 48:25 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 48:25 I disagree. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:25 There's just ... You know, how many people know Gervonta Davis?

Claressa Shields 48:28 I mean, people know him because of Floyd.

Joe Rogan 48:30 Boxing people know him.

Claressa Shields 48:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Boxing fans know him.

Claressa Shields 48:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:33 But the average person, if he was around in like the 1980s, you know, when, uh, when Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran and like when all these household names, everybody would know who he is. It would be like Ray Boom Boom Mancini. It would be like one of those guys that everybody ... It would be like, you know, y- you think of like boxers that were famous boxers back then, they were household names 'cause there was less entertainment. There was less stuff going on and there was no internet. So if they had someone like Alexis Arguello fight on ABC Wide World of Sports, like that guy was a superstar. He was a household name. Aaron Pryor was a household name.

Claressa Shields 49:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:07 Like I don't think-

Claressa Shields 49:09 No.

Joe Rogan 49:09 ... even like ...... big time boxers today. I don't think they have the same sort of appeal in terms of like the general public as they did in the past, just because the public's overwhelmed by things to pay attention to. There's so much music and there's so much, there's so many athletes and so many sports. There's MMA, there's soccer, there's basketball, there's baseball. It's constant. The internet is filled with entertainment. You're just constantly getting overwhelmed with shit. So for a girl, my point has been, for a girl to rise, they have to be someone like you. They have to be someone who's just undeniable. Two-time Olympic gold medalist, undefeated professional boxer, dominates in multiple weight classes, now is thinking about fighting MMA, whoo, all eyes are on you. But in terms of boxing, there's just no- no one's like saying, "Hey, you know, we gotta get Claressa Shields to fight this girl." It's not like the Christy Martin, Lucia Reicher days, where there was one girl who was getting all the play because she was on the Mike Tyson undercards, which was Christy Martin. But there was this one girl that was in the shadows that the boxing fans knew was a killer, and they was like, "Boy, I really would love to see that fight." You know what I'm saying? Like, women's boxing just, for whatever reason, didn't, has not had the play, and I think you made a really good point that if they had women fight on the undercard the way the UFC has done, the UFC has done-

Claressa Shields 50:36 That's a-

Joe Rogan 50:36 ... a brilliant job of it.

Claressa Shields 50:37 Brilliant.

Joe Rogan 50:38 Yeah. And-

Claressa Shields 50:39 A lot of MMA cards and, uh, uh, MMA networks have.

Joe Rogan 50:44 Yes.

Claressa Shields 50:44 I mean, like, I like that the PFL that I get a chance to fight for a million dollars. Like, it's equal.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Yes.

Claressa Shields 50:48 You know, once you be up in the tournament.

Joe Rogan 50:50 Right.

Claressa Shields 50:51 But it's like, with boxing, they don't put you, they don't give women that same kinda...

Joe Rogan 50:56 Promotion.

Claressa Shields 50:57 ... promotion or give it that same-

Joe Rogan 50:58 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 50:58 ... kind of, um, chance. Like, they'll build up these guys. You know, like, they'll put other guys on the undercard of Errol Spence, Deontay Wilder.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Right.

Claressa Shields 51:07 Um, Manny Pacquiao. But for a woman, I mean, I would love to fight on the undercard of Canelo.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 51:14 The undercard of Anthony Joshua.

Joe Rogan 51:15 Of course.

Claressa Shields 51:16 Even though, you know, I feel like I've accomplished more than those guys in boxing, you know? But it's still, like, be- being able to share our fins to show them, like, "Look, this, this woman possess some skills or the same amount of skills that Canelo has. Oh, look at her compared to Anthony Joshua. Like, they're on the same card, but look at how she boxes, look at how calm she is, look at her pick her shots."

Joe Rogan 51:39 Right.

Claressa Shields 51:39 And, you know, look at how dominant she is. But we don't get those kinda opportunities. Like, even I feel like I'm at, like, a stuck point. Like, I just did my own pay-per-view, but it's like I still... Like, why can't I get on the undercard of one of those big names? And I feel like I- I'm not an undercard fighter to be honest. I'm not. I'm a main event fighter, but I would take the undercard fights to build my profile more, because I know that's how the other guys are building their profiles.

Joe Rogan 52:07 Right. Right.

Claressa Shields 52:08 But I don't get those kinda opportunities.

Joe Rogan 52:10 Yeah, that's a mistake, right? It's a mistake by boxing-

Claressa Shields 52:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:13 ... and boxing promoters that they haven't figured out a way to do it in the same way that MMA fighters have, 'cause clearly there's a lot of attention paid to female MMA fighters. Amanda Nunes is a huge star.

Claressa Shields 52:24 She is.

Joe Rogan 52:25 And, you know, you saw what happened when Holly Holm knocked out Ronda Rousey. Ronda Rousey was a huge star. Holly Holm became a star. Miesha Tate became a star. There's been a series of women's professional fighters that are stars, so you could just go down the line. Joanna Jędrczek. You know, there's so many of them, you know. There's not that kind of appeal in women's boxing and I think you're right. I think it's purely because of the promotion.

Claressa Shields 52:50 The promotion also too, they, they, they look at us as less than. Women's boxing, I mean, I'm just being honest. I'm a women's advocate. I don't believe that we should ask for e- for equal pay and not fight the same amount of time. It makes no sense. You'd like me coming to your job. I'm like, "Hey, Joe, I'm gonna do 20 minutes of work today. You're going to do 36, but I want them to pay me the same as they're paying you." And you're like, "You only came in here for 20 minutes and I've been here 36."

Joe Rogan 53:17 Right, but in your business-

Claressa Shields 53:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:19 ... you get paid directly proportionate, if you have a good agent and good manager, directly proportionate to how much people are willing to pay to see you. Like-

Claressa Shields 53:27 And that's not true either.

Joe Rogan 53:28 It's not true?

Claressa Shields 53:29 In boxing, it's not true, because-

Joe Rogan 53:31 How so?

Claressa Shields 53:31 ... if you wanna look up something right now, if you look up Claressa Shields ratings against, against, uh, Hannah Gabriels, it, it will, it will show you 430,000 views, 410,000 views. Adrien Broner's last fight on Showtime was 288 and 288K views, but he got paid $2 million. Well, he said on, on, on TV it was 13 million, but I looked it up and it said two.

Joe Rogan 53:56 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 53:56 But he got paid two million-

Joe Rogan 53:57 Hmm.

Claressa Shields 53:58 ... and my, and my fight against Kry- uh, and my fight against Hannah Gabriels, I got paid 150,000.

Joe Rogan 54:03 Well, that's unfortunate, but I also think that the, the Adrien Broner fight was a big disappointment in terms of the amount of people that watched it.

Claressa Shields 54:11 When he just came back or when?

Joe Rogan 54:12 The, the most recent one that you're talking about.

Claressa Shields 54:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Because I think they expected it to get more eyeballs than that, 'cause I remember reading an article about the disappointing ratings in that fight.

Claressa Shields 54:21 But it's also been more disappointing ratings. That's not just one. Look at me and Christina Hammer ratings, 375K. Me and Ivanna Harbinz ratings, 325K. You got other guys who Showtime is putting on and probably paying more than me, but I'm getting more eyeballs.

Joe Rogan 54:38 So why do you think that is?

Claressa Shields 54:39 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Hmm. So-

Claressa Shields 54:42 That's the thing. We don't know. I, I feel like it's to the minutes.

Joe Rogan 54:43 When you try to talk to Showtime about it, do, do you ever have conversations with executives about it or do you leave it all to the managers and the agents?

Claressa Shields 54:51 Managers and agents.

Joe Rogan 54:51 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 54:52 You know, I've, I've, I've had conversations with... I think I had maybe a few conversations with Steven Espinoza who works with Showtime and I've said like, you know, "I would love to do like some commentating and stuff like that to keep my face in the-"

Joe Rogan 55:04 Profile, right.

Claressa Shields 55:05 "... in the, in the public as I'm not fighting so people can still know like, okay, this is Claressa Shields. Hey, do you like Shawn Porter?" But, um, other than that, I just said like, "Could you...You know, I've said, like, you know, I noticed that you guys promoted my fight with Hannah Gabriels for four weeks, but you guys promote, you know, Danny Garcia and Errol Spence fights for eight, but you guys talked to me about the numbers. Like, okay, well maybe if you guys gave me eight weeks of promotion like you do the men, maybe I get higher numbers. And that's probably the only two conversations that I've had with him.

Joe Rogan 55:37 What'd they say to you about that?

Claressa Shields 55:39 Um, they had changed it. They had-

Joe Rogan 55:41 They did? All right.

Claressa Shields 55:41 Yeah. They had put more, they had put more time into, uh, we had a All Access for Hammer. Um, was it All Access or was it called 24/7? I think it's called All Access for Showtime. But, like, we had did that and they were, you know, putting some time and money behind it. And, um, that was cool, but I didn't look at them as they were sexist at the time, because I just felt like no other woman... W- women are always yelling "Equal pay," you know, "Pay us equal," "Equal opportunity," and stuff, but I wanted to look at the micro things, and I just was like, "Okay, let's look at the promotion."

Joe Rogan 56:16 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 56:16 "Um, let's look at, you know, the commercials, let's look at the micro thing."

Joe Rogan 56:20 When the commercial's there too, right?

Claressa Shields 56:22 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 56:22 The, that they air when something big is on.

Claressa Shields 56:24 Right. So I'm like, "Let's look at that stuff." And I even talked to the WBC organization and I'm like, "Hey, I was watching PBC boxing, and I seen that you guys have a full commercial of all the WBC champions, but they are all men."

Joe Rogan 56:38 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 56:39 And I was like, "I'm a WBC champion in, like, three different weight classes. Like, where is our WBC champion-"

Joe Rogan 56:45 Right.

Claressa Shields 56:46 "... commercial at?" And that's not me being, that's not me being a bitch. That's me just saying, like, "Hey, we're talking about being-

Joe Rogan 56:52 Justified. Yeah.

Claressa Shields 56:53 "... equal. Like, let's, let's equal it out 'cause that'll put our face more out there and get us more recognition." And I just saw that and I just reached out to them and said that, and-

Joe Rogan 57:01 Do you feel like you have a responsibility as the face of women's boxing to try to amplify the amount of promotion that women get? Because you're the king, or the queen rather, you're the top of the food chain.

Claressa Shields 57:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:11 If, if you're not getting attention, women's boxing's not getting attention.

Claressa Shields 57:16 Yeah, I feel like I have to do more than just fight. Like, I can go out there and fight and look great, but they're still gonna have something to say about that. "Oh, she's fighting, but she's not getting knockouts." So now when you talk about, like, I'm the only woman who I feel like will actually speak about the micro thing. Like I'm not just yelling "Equal pay," I'm yelling "Equal fight time, equal promotion, um, equal pay." Right? But I'm also, like, just let them know, like, "Look, women's boxing is here to stay. We're never gonna just go e- go extinct, so you guys might as well get behind us and pump up the whole thing, you know?"

Joe Rogan 57:49 And another thing is if they paid you more, people would know you're making a lot of money and they would watch more. That's the reality.

Claressa Shields 57:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:56 One of the things is when you find out that Floyd's making $50 million for a fight or $100 million for a fight, people watch more because of that, because they recognize that it's very high stakes.

Claressa Shields 58:06 Exactly. But in women's boxing, we've never had that. Like, I mean, I was, I was super pumped my pay-per-view fight. No matter the amount of views that I got, it was just like, "Wow, I'm in a ring, I'm fighting on pay-per-view, and people was able to bet on me." It was like, "Yo, this is, this is big shit." Like, people can bet their hard-earned money on me to win a fight, to get a knockout, they can pick a round. It seemed like I became more of a superstar. And I hate that I do this, but (laughs) with numbers, Showtime, when I was fighting with Showtime, when it was fight week, I would gain about 25, 25,000 followers on Instagram. Instagram isn't everything, but I just, how I compare my numbers. This fight, without Showtime, I gained 15,000 followers just off of me fighting on a network that's not super known for, um, women's boxing. It was on FITETV. You can still go on there and buy the pap- and buy the pay-per-view if you want to. Go on there, 20.99. But I looked at the numbers and I'm like, "I was able to get 13,000 new people and eyes on me doing my own pay-per-view show compared to getting a 20, 25,000 that I would get from being on Showtime."

Joe Rogan 59:23 Does it frustrate you that you have to think about all this kind of promotion shit, that you can't just concentrate on the fighting?

Claressa Shields 59:27 You know, sometimes. But something that, um, somebody really important told me, his name is Andre Darrell, he said, "You the, you are the person for the job. You know, this, this is not the job for nobody else. God put you here for you to fight this fight. Like, not for you just to win the fights because you do that easy," but he was like, "In order for women's boxing to ever be equal, you the, you as the person to, to make it equal."

Joe Rogan 59:49 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 59:50 So sometimes I look at it as if it's a burden, and he just said to me, "There's no other person for the job than you. So you kinda just gotta accept your role and just make the best out of it." But I would love to just focus on fighting though, but that's just not the way that the world is set up for me.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Well, you've been successful focusing on, in everything, so.

Claressa Shields 1:00:11 Yeah, the-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 I mean.

Claressa Shields 1:00:11 See, the fights are easy, but I still need-

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 1:00:13 ... me some money.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 (laughs) The fights are easy, but I still need me some money.

Claressa Shields 1:00:15 (laughs) Yeah, I need me some money. For real.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 That's... Well, now you're going to the PFL.

Claressa Shields 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 And in the PFL, you're in, enrolled in this tournament that if you win, you make a million dollars.

Claressa Shields 1:00:24 Next year.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 Next year.

Claressa Shields 1:00:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 And, and so, talk me through how, when did you decide to make a transition and try to fight in MMA, and why did you decide to sign with the PFL?

Claressa Shields 1:00:38 Well, we had, I had been out the ring from last year January, and I was supposed to fight May. May got pushed back all the way till August. Then August to October, and then after that, we didn't hear nothing else from Showtime. Um, MMA organizations had already re- reached out to me prior. Like, you know, Dana, he wanted me to do something with Amanda, which I was like, um, not that I wouldn't, but it was like, "I need to give myself a fair chance." Like, this girl has been doing MMA for I don't know how long, and, you know, six weeks, I mean, six, six months to a year is just not enough time. Like, I'll go in there and, you know, I'm gonna fight with my, fight with my heart, but it's still, like, technique and everything is needed. So...I didn't look at that. We, we left that. Um, Bellator, (laughs) I don't know, like, we were actually close with them, but they said something about after Watching Me Box that I was too clean of a boxer for them, which I was like, "I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 What?

Claressa Shields 1:01:39 ... know what the fuck that mean."

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Too clean?

Claressa Shields 1:01:41 Yeah. Like, I don't wanna go in there and just take risks and get punched in my face or something. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 Really?

Claressa Shields 1:01:46 I just, I never even asked about it. Once my manager told me that, I said, "Cool." Like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 1:01:51 ... "All right." (laughs) Like, nothing I can do about that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Too clean of a boxer might be one of the dumbest things a person's ever said.

Claressa Shields 1:01:57 It was the num- number th-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Too clean.

Claressa Shields 1:01:59 ... dumbest thing that I've ever heard, so I just was like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Too skillful, too sharp.

Claressa Shields 1:02:03 Yeah, stuff like that. And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Too... (laughs)

Claressa Shields 1:02:05 ... "Oh, all right."

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 1:02:06 "Cool."

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 You need to lead with your face. You wanna make some money? Like, grrr!

Claressa Shields 1:02:09 Yeah, and it was like, mm-

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Take shots. That's ridiculous.

Claressa Shields 1:02:12 But we were just in the talks with them, so after we got that word, I was like, "Okay, whatever." And-

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 That's ridiculous.

Claressa Shields 1:02:17 But it seemed like when I talked with the PFL, it was more of a serious offer. It wasn't like, "Hey, come over here, fight our best girl, Kayla Harrison, and then just go back to boxing."

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 Right.

Claressa Shields 1:02:26 It was a really, a lucrative, uh, deal. It was a three-year deal. And, um, I just had the chance to talk with, w- with the CEOs and the owners and, I mean, it was really a great conversation. And I'm the person, like, when it come to business, I just get on the phone and I listen. I don't say much. I'm like, "Hey, Clarisse, I'm here. You guys go ahead. Take over the floor." And I just listen. And to hear what they were saying, you know, just about, like, me coming to the PFL, um, you know, me having a option if I wanted to fight in the tournament next year or, or if I didn't, you know, helping me find trainers, uh, making a three-year, uh, contract. What I would get paid this year versus next year is a big jump. And you know, just somebody who's also putting money behind me, you know, um, every month, like looking out for me. Like w- if- if rather I'm doing MMA this month or next month, I still get paid every month. You know, so that was very-

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Oh, so you get-

Claressa Shields 1:03:21 ... very helpful for me.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 So they pay you like a salary? Is that how it works?

Claressa Shields 1:03:23 Like a s- like a stipend.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 A stipend.

Claressa Shields 1:03:25 Yeah, so to me, that was like, "All right." 'Cause I had been, been without boxing for a year, so I hadn't made any money in over a year.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 Right.

Claressa Shields 1:03:32 So it was like all I've been doing is spending, spending, spending.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 They've made some big moves this year. They, they signed Anthony Showtime Pettis, who's a-

Claressa Shields 1:03:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 ... former UFC champion.

Claressa Shields 1:03:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 They have Rory MacDonald, who's a former champion as well. So they're, they're doing a lot of, like, very smart things in terms of acquiring big talent. But having you on is, I think, is huge, because they have Kayla Harrison, but, you know, she just, there's not a lot of competition for her, especially in that 145-pound weight class. That's a, it's a tricky weight class in MMA.

Claressa Shields 1:04:00 Is 155 she at? She's at 155 I think.

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 Is she?

Claressa Shields 1:04:03 Yeah, her last, I think her last fight was at 145, but she fought Turman at 155 last year.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 Oh, I see. Um, the UFC has, like, no one at 45.

Claressa Shields 1:04:11 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 I mean, Amanda Nunes just d- dominated Megan Anderson and they don't even have ratings. Like if you look at the UFC's ratings at 145, there's no rankings. It's not listed.

Claressa Shields 1:04:20 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 It's just, you just have Amanda. I mean, there's, there's no one there. It's, it's such a shallow weight class, unfortunately. But Kayla Harrison, uh, coming from that, you know, judo background, I mean, this is, uh, I mean, she's a, she's a, a beast of a, a judoka. She's really, really talented with that.

Claressa Shields 1:04:37 Agreed.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 And with you, with this in- incredible record in boxing and such, uh, accolades in boxing, the two of you together, that's a legitimate super fight down the road.

Claressa Shields 1:04:47 It'd be the first time that two two-time Olympic gold medalists ever fought against each other.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Yes, yes.

Claressa Shields 1:04:51 If the fight was to happen. But I, I mean, I look at it as, you know, she was two-time Olympic gold medalist at the same time... We went to the Olympics together, so I already knew Kayla before I had joined the PFL. We both went to the Olympic at the same weight class both years, 75 kilo, 165 pounds. And, uh, we were, we were cool. And we, and we still are cool technically, but we both understand, like, the big picture-

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Right.

Claressa Shields 1:05:16 ... is us fighting against each other.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Yeah, that's the big money fight in, in women's MMA right now, in terms of, like, something that people get hyped up about.

Claressa Shields 1:05:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 I mean, uh, the credentials, two Olympic gold medals on each side, and the two of you guys are striker versus a grappler competing in MMA. (exhales) That's a big fight. If, if PFL can promote it correctly, if they can get the eyeballs on it, it would, it would be a big moment for women's MMA.

Claressa Shields 1:05:42 I think, I, I think that they will. I just have to do my job. Like I, I like when people compare the fight and say, "Oh," like people think right now that if me and her got in, like if we was to fight that I would win, and people think that, some people think that she would win. But it's like for me being super honest with myself, it's like would I go in there and just try to wrestle with her? No. And would she come in there trying to just fight me with our, with our hands and do only striking? No. So me being smart is, like, I need to learn all of that stuff so that no matter what happens in a fight, I can make sure that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do to get the win. And that's how I feel about all the opponents. Like there's girls who are on a lower, on a lower scale right now, um, who are looking at me to be their big opportunity.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Right.

Claressa Shields 1:06:27 You know, in MMA. Like they, they, like they don't have a chance to beat me in boxing. Let's just put that out there. That's not it. But MMA is their chance to use a whole bunch of different stuff like jujitsu and wrestling and kicking to try to get the victory. So for me-

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Mm-hmm.

Claressa Shields 1:06:41 ... right now, um, it's just learning and training and getting ready, preparing for whoever I get in there with. And then just learning and getting as, as much experience as I can, because once 2022 come, that's when me and my team will decide if we're ready for the PFL League tournament or not. And I'm gonna be honest, you know, with myself. If I feel like, "All right, I'm ready. I feel like I've learnt enough." Cool. But if, but if my, if my team feel the same way that I feel or if they feel opposite, we're just gonna have a conversation. Like if they feel like, "Look, you're ready."You know, and I've already looked up all the girls who are in the PFL League this year. And I was happy to say at least five of them, I would beat up. And it's only eight. So I'm like, "All right. This a good number." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:28 (laughs)

Claressa Shields 1:07:28 It's a good number out of eight. But it still, this was like, for me-

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 You'd like it to be all eight?

Claressa Shields 1:07:32 ... it was like, I would like it to be all eight.

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 Yeah.

Claressa Shields 1:07:34 And that's the kind of person I am. So I'm going to train