Joe Rogan Experience #1619 - Claressa Shields

1. 0:00 – 1:58

   Claressa’s historic boxing résumé and the pull toward MMA

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Welcome. What's happening? How are you?

   2. CSClaressa Shields0:16

      I'm good. How are you, Joe?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Wonderful. It's a pleasure to get to meet you and to have you on here. I'm a big fan.

   4. CSClaressa Shields0:21

      Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      You, uh, in a young life, you have accomplished incredible things.

   6. CSClaressa Shields0:28

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      Like, for people that don't know, you won an Olympic gold medal at 17.

   8. CSClaressa Shields0:32

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      And then you won it again four years later.

   10. CSClaressa Shields0:34

       Yep. Two-time Olympic gold medalist.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       The only American boxer ever.

   12. CSClaressa Shields0:38

       Yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       I think, like, only another sp-... Like, no boxer's ever done that, right, in America?

   14. CSClaressa Shields0:42

       No, just... No, not from America. Just me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       And, uh, I mean, you've gone multiple weight classes, and now you're considering fighting in MMA. I mean, you, you kind of cleared out boxing in a lot of ways.

   16. CSClaressa Shields0:57

       It's always something more to be accomplished-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Yeah.

   18. CSClaressa Shields1:00

       ... in boxing. But I'm venturing off into MMA because I really wanna see, "Am I as great as I think I am?" And I think I am, so I'm excited to be fighting with the PFL later on this year and just, um, taking it from there and seeing what happens.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Well, I think, uh, when someone is as good as you are at boxing, you could basically do anything you want in life.

   20. CSClaressa Shields1:22

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       You just have to put the same amount of focus that you put on boxing to whatever it is-

   22. CSClaressa Shields1:28

       Smart man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       ... that you apply yourself to.

   24. CSClaressa Shields1:30

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:30

       You know? There's rare human beings that can do what you've been able to do. It's a rare person.

   26. CSClaressa Shields1:35

       Five Ps.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Five Ps?

   28. CSClaressa Shields1:36

       Proper preparation prevents poor performance.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       There you go.

   30. CSClaressa Shields1:39

       So in MMA, I'm not coming over like, "Hey, I'm in boxing. I'm gonna box all you girls up." It's like, "I'm at Jackson Wing Gym, you know, with Coach Jackson, Coach Wing. I'm training."
2. 1:58 – 5:16

   Flexibility, yoga, and adapting a boxer’s body for kicking

   1. CSClaressa Shields1:58

      I didn't know my leg can go up that high till they showed me the technique of it, and I was like, "Whoa, this shit's insane."

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      D- do you stretch all the time? Are you a person who... Like, when you were boxing, I mean, I know most athletes stretch, but having a full split is not, uh, really ne-... It's not really required to punch people.

   3. CSClaressa Shields2:16

      No.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:16

      Do you... But you obviously have very flexible legs.

   5. CSClaressa Shields2:19

      I've been doing yoga for the past few months.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:22

      Wow. Hmm.

   7. CSClaressa Shields2:22

      So I was able to kick high when I first went to Jackson Wing Gym in December. I was able to kick high, but not for very long. I probably would get two or three good high kicks, and I'm like, "Yo, let's bring it down a level."

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:33

      (laughs)

   9. CSClaressa Shields2:33

      Now, from all the stretching, when they got that pad up there and they like, "Kick it," I just do the form, and my leg can go up there over and over and over again just from the stretching and actually being a bit more flexible than what I was before. So I stretch, but I stretch more serious now.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       What brought you into yoga?

   11. CSClaressa Shields2:51

       Um, really, it was the MMA fans, to be honest. They're like-

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:55

       Yeah.

   13. CSClaressa Shields2:56

       ... "You're gonna have to stretch." And, you know, people are on there, you know, talking trash or whatever, trolls. But they were saying... Like, I read a lot of comments, and I'm like... They're like, "You know, she's gonna have a problem with kicking. She's not flexible. Her legs are big," blah, blah, blah. So I would read some of that stuff and do my own research, and I'm like, "Damn, they're right." (laughs) So my goal for one, one of my New Year's resolutions was to be able to do the splits by the end of the year. So I have a yoga teacher, um, and me and her go, like, up on, up on Zoom twice a week. And she's, like, having me do these stretches. I'm like, "Girl, you is something else." Her name is Sakina.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       Hmm. Have you done, uh, hot yoga ever?

   15. CSClaressa Shields3:36

       No. Not yet. I heard it's brutal, though.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:39

       It's brutal.

   17. CSClaressa Shields3:39

       It's more of a mental thing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       It is brutal, for sure. But one good thing about it is when you get that hot and sweaty, your muscles become really pliable, and you can make really good gains that way, like, in terms of flexibility.

   19. CSClaressa Shields3:51

       Oh, wow.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       Yeah.

   21. CSClaressa Shields3:51

       Maybe I shou-... Maybe I should try it with Sakina.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       Yeah, I always find, uh, I'm way more flexible in a hot yoga class than I am anywhere else.

   23. CSClaressa Shields3:58

       You can do the splits?

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       Yeah, I can do the splits.

   25. CSClaressa Shields4:00

       Damn.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       Yeah.

   27. CSClaressa Shields4:01

       You're ahead of me. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       (laughs) Wha-

   29. CSClaressa Shields4:03

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:03

       I'm old. I started when I was 15, you know?
3. 5:16 – 9:59

   Shin conditioning, learning new strikes, and the Jackson-Wink choice

   1. CSClaressa Shields5:16

      But that's one thing about the kicks, though. You really have to condition those shins for that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:20

      Oh, yeah.

   3. CSClaressa Shields5:21

      Remember, when I first started, I was like, probably like five kicks in, I'm like, "Yeah, not yet."

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:25

      Just the bag, right?

   5. CSClaressa Shields5:26

      Yeah, just the bag itself.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:27

      (laughs)

   7. CSClaressa Shields5:27

      Then when we went up to the pads, I'm like, "Coach, do you got softer pads? Serious."

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:32

      (laughs)

   9. CSClaressa Shields5:32

      He's like, "Champ, these are my softest ones." I'm like... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:36

       It takes a while.

   11. CSClaressa Shields5:38

       Yeah, it takes a minute.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       It takes a while. You see some people, they start whacking their shins with, like, uh, Coke bottles and stuff like that, just trying to toughen them up.

   13. CSClaressa Shields5:45

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:45

       They do all kinds of things to their shins.

   15. CSClaressa Shields5:46

       I can kick really hard now.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       Oh, there you are. Look at this. Seriously. Superman punches, everything, head kicks.

   17. CSClaressa Shields5:54

       The thing is, some of this stuff I learnt. I learnt Superman punch that same day. So when he showed me it one time, we just started doing it, and he was like, "You're doing good." Like, I can look at it now and tell you my mistakes.... right now, but I'm not gonna say too much 'cause I fixed them already.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:11

       (laughs)

   19. CSClaressa Shields6:11

       But sometimes when I throw, like, the head kicks, my kicks would, my h- my hands would go down at the same time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:17

       How did you get to Jackson Winkeljohn? 'Cause first of all, you couldn't have picked a better gym to, to train at, the, one of the best gyms in the world. But what, what brought you there?

   21. CSClaressa Shields6:26

       Um, actually, I've always had, like... I, I, I believe in technique and training. People may look at me boxing and be like, "Oh, she's just naturally fast. She's naturally strong." It's like, no, I am strategically smart in boxing and I have a lot of skill. I may look like I'm a beast out there, but it takes a lot of skill to land those punches, body work, defense, which is... I probably got hit three times my last fight.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       Well, you went one of your fights... W- What was that woman from... (clicks tongue) Oh, God, what was her name? It was y- well, your first world title fight. She was a blonde lady.

   23. CSClaressa Shields7:00

       Nikki Adler?

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       Yeah.

   25. CSClaressa Shields7:01

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       She went a whole round without landing a single punch on you.

   27. CSClaressa Shields7:04

       Yeah, and I, I, and I ended that fight in the fifth round.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:07

       Yeah. You... Anybody that doesn't think that you have technique just doesn't understand boxing. That's-

   29. CSClaressa Shields7:12

       Yeah, they're, they're-

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       That's a g-
4. 9:59 – 11:20

   Balancing boxing and MMA: timelines, camps, and the “double champion” goal

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:59

      ... different stuff you do with it. So, when did you start training in MMA?

   2. CSClaressa Shields10:04

      December.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:05

      Just December?

   4. CSClaressa Shields10:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:06

      And how often are you doing it?

   6. CSClaressa Shields10:08

      Um, I was at Jackson Wing Gym three weeks at a time. So I'd be there three weeks, go home a week, come back three weeks, go home a week, come back three weeks. Um, I was doing that because I really just... I like to just have my time where I'm at home with my family, with my boyfriend. I don't like just training, training, training, training, like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:24

      Right.

   8. CSClaressa Shields10:25

      ... shit will drive you crazy. So I'm like, "I gotta leave."

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:27

      Hmm.

   10. CSClaressa Shields10:28

       So now, uh, starting back in... after my birthday in April, I'll be up in Jackson Wing for three weeks, but I'll only go home weekend. So I'll be there three weeks and then go home for Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Fly back Sunday, be there three weeks again until, uh, I have my actual fight.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       So is the plan to continue boxing as well as fighting in MMA?

   12. CSClaressa Shields10:49

       Yeah, the overall goal for me is to be champion in boxing and be a champion in MMA at the same time.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:54

       Ooh.

   14. CSClaressa Shields10:55

       Once that's done, then I don't know what else I could possibly do. Like-

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:00

       (laughs)

   16. CSClaressa Shields11:00

       ... that'd be, like, the end game for me. Like, that's it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:02

       Yeah.

   18. CSClaressa Shields11:03

       So I know I'm... I can be champion in boxing, which is very easy to do because I'm already a c- uh, uh, accomplished so much in boxing and the girls just can't fuck with me in boxing. Let's keep it real.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:14

       (laughs)

   20. CSClaressa Shields11:14

       But MMA, (laughs) on the other hand, a bit more challenging.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:18

       But it's true. But it's true.

   22. CSClaressa Shields11:20

       Yeah.

5. 11:20 – 14:14

   Dominant fights, controversial moments, and being overmatched opponents’ problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:20

      You know? I mean, you've had a, a couple interesting moments in fights but, you know, you've won-

   2. CSClaressa Shields11:26

      I've had one interesting moment in a fight.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:27

      The one you got knocked down-

   4. CSClaressa Shields11:28

      That's it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      ... with the uppercut. Yeah.

   6. CSClaressa Shields11:29

      Other than that, I still whooped her ass 10 rounds.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:31

      You did whip her ass.

   8. CSClaressa Shields11:32

      And then Christina Hammer was supposed to be the big tall giant from, you know-

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:37

      Yeah.

   10. CSClaressa Shields11:37

       ... Germany to come over here and, you know, slay the dragon. And she got beat up pretty bad too.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:42

       She got overwhelmed when she started-

   12. CSClaressa Shields11:44

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       ... clinching you. You could tell, like, she was just... When she got close to you, she just wanted to hold on.

   14. CSClaressa Shields11:49

       I thought the ref should have stopped that fight.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:50

       Yeah.

   16. CSClaressa Shields11:50

       Eighth round, she didn't respond to 10 punches in the corner. 10.

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Yeah.

   18. CSClaressa Shields11:55

       It was like she was out of there.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:57

       Yeah.

   20. CSClaressa Shields11:57

       And he... And I think she jumped in, s- said that the, said that the round had ended, but it was like, no, you need to be stopping this. Like, she's done, but-

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       Yeah.

   22. CSClaressa Shields12:05

       ... she was able to hold on and whatever for, you know, two more rounds. But I thought eighth round, I thought it was over. Like, I started celebrating. I was jumping up and down. Me and my coach jumped in the ring, we were hugging and all of a sudden they're like, "No, no, no, the fight's still on." I'm like, "What the hell just happened?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:20

       Yeah.

   24. CSClaressa Shields12:20

       So yeah, it's confusing.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:21

       That was a weird moment.

   26. CSClaressa Shields12:22

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       I- i-... Was that a satisfying one for you because she was talking so much shit before, so...

   28. CSClaressa Shields12:27

       It's not even about, like, the shit talking really. It was just about, like, "How dare you guys compare her to me?"

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:33

       Hmm.

   30. CSClaressa Shields12:33

       That's what it was for me. It was like, I had watched film of her and I had my eye set on her since I was 17, before I even had turned pro. And I knew then when I was 17, I could've beat her. So now that I'm, you know, I was like 22 or whatever, 23, it's like, "What the hell do she do that make you guys think she can beat me?" Like, either I'm just a terrible boxer or you guys just, I don't know, think she's that good.
6. 14:14 – 18:11

   Laila Ali comparisons, legacy talk, and why women’s boxing stars are rare

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:14

      ... in comparison, like, technique wise, ability wise, accomplishments wise. There's not a lot of competition for you in boxing where people are calling out for... Other than occasionally people start talking about Laila Ali, right? Occasionally that comes up. "Well, she's, you know..."

   2. CSClaressa Shields14:32

      She's retired.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:33

      She's retired. Sh- she's probably-

   4. CSClaressa Shields14:34

      And she's been retired for a long time.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:36

      ... 43?

   6. CSClaressa Shields14:36

      43.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:37

      Yeah.

   8. CSClaressa Shields14:37

      And this is the thing I don't respect about that, right? I hate when somebody else try to take somebody else shine, somebody else attention. You know, it's like-

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:45

      Damn.

   10. CSClaressa Shields14:46

       ... she's... You know, nobody was trying to take her, take her attention when it was her time.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:50

       Right.

   12. CSClaressa Shields14:51

       And that's why I didn't, I didn't like about Hammer either. When I won the world title fight, why are you jumping in the ring talking about some, "You beat us both"? You say congrats and get the fuck out the ring. You know, but she's getting there being disrespectful. And then Laila gets upset because I've become undisputed champion. She's never been undisputed. And people are comparing me to her and she gets offended. When it was like, to me, I thought it was a good comparison because I feel like I boxed way better than her. And for them to be saying that me and her are equal or whatever, she should've been happy because of that, because they're giving her more, um, more props on her skills, which I feel like she didn't really have that much. But, you know, whatever. It was like, I never really had a problem with it and then all of a sudden it's like, it's like, well, she'll knock me out and my record and this and that. And I just was like, "Hater." That's all I kept thinking to myself. Hater. And I would've loved to fight her, but, um, at the end of the day, I'm an active fighter. She's retired. So when people bring her up, like, I don't want to have to keep saying that I beat her, because I think it's evident, but at the same time it's like, look, it was, she had her time. This is my time. They don't even correlate with each other.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       Yeah, when was the last time she fought? Was it like-

   14. CSClaressa Shields16:01

       I don't know.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       ... 2016 or something? See if you can find Laila Ali's last professional boxing fight.

   16. CSClaressa Shields16:06

       You said 2016. You thinking real, no.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       No?

   18. CSClaressa Shields16:09

       She's been retired for like 13, 12 years.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       Has it been that long?

   20. CSClaressa Shields16:12

       Yeah. Like, I think her last fight was 2001.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Was it really?

   22. CSClaressa Shields16:16

       Probably.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       2007. Wow. I was way off.

   24. CSClaressa Shields16:19

       At least 2012, I'd say. What? I think-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       2007.

   26. CSClaressa Shields16:22

       I started boxing in 2006. I was like 11 years old-

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       Hmm.

   28. CSClaressa Shields16:25

       ... when I started boxing. So that mean I was 12.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       So basically she, she retired when she was like 30.

   30. CSClaressa Shields16:31

       Yeah.
7. 18:11 – 32:23

   Training philosophy: avoiding burnout, overtraining, and one-size-fits-all coaching

   1. CSClaressa Shields18:11

      It was only one thing she said one time, because I, I watched a few of her documentaries when she was training with James Kirkland and training herself. She said, um, "You want to break a fighter down and bro- and, and then build him back up."

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:21

      Hmm.

   3. CSClaressa Shields18:22

      And that's something I've never been like a real fan of. Like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:25

      I understand.

   5. CSClaressa Shields18:25

      Um, some fighters, you got to know which fighter you training. Some fighters can deal with being broken down.

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:31

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CSClaressa Shields18:31

      But when you break a fighter down mentally, the next thing to go, "Well..."... break they body down, the next thing to go is they mind. Some people don't have strong minds to where they can actually get built back up.

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:41

      Hmm.

   9. CSClaressa Shields18:42

      And, you know, for s- and, you know, for me, I'm the fire that I believe in hard work, but also believe in, like, "Okay, this is just too much. I gotta take a break."

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:49

       Right.

   11. CSClaressa Shields18:49

       You know? And I've always li- listened to my body. Like, I got fined at the Olympic Training Center for telling them, like, "Look, I'm not running another fucking sprint." Like, like, like, like, "My legs are tight. Um, I'm sore. I'm not running." And they fined me $500, but guess what?

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:02

       They fined you for not training, like, n- not listening to your body?

   13. CSClaressa Shields19:06

       Yeah, but they were saying like, "Oh, you need to go see a doctor. You need to get a doctor's note." And I'm like, "Well..." But the doctor couldn't get me in 'til three, 'til three days. I'm like, "Well, in three days, I'm not- I'm not doing anything." And, um, they fined me for that. But when I went to see the doctor, he said, "One more sprint, you woulda, you woulda, um-"

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:23

       Tore something.

   15. CSClaressa Shields19:24

       He said, "You woulda tore your calf. You woulda popped your calf muscle." And I'm like, "Well, here go the note. Give me my fucking money back."

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       (laughs)

   17. CSClaressa Shields19:31

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       How do they... I don't understand how can they fine you for listening to your body? Like, how do they know how you feel?

   19. CSClaressa Shields19:38

       It's just more athletes. You don't really fine greats, you know what I mean? It's more athletes who really complain to get outta training, fake injuries than you have those who don't fak- who, who, who don't fake injuries and actually take the sport serious.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:52

       But is that v- really prevalent to the point where they have to fine people at the Olympics?

   21. CSClaressa Shields19:56

       Outside.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       I would imagine. What... That's crazy.

   23. CSClaressa Shields19:59

       But that's where I was just, like, that was my Muhammad Ali moments where I'm like, "I don't care what you guys do, I'm not gonna injure myself because you guys don't believe what I'm saying." Like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:09

       Yeah.

   25. CSClaressa Shields20:09

       ... what I'm... I know what I feel now a- and, and I couldn't run or sprint-

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       Can you explain to me how-

   27. CSClaressa Shields20:14

       ... for almost, like, three weeks.

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:15

       How does, how does it get to a point where they fine you? Like, what do they tell you? Like, do they, they come up to you and they say, "You have to do these, the, these training routines that we're asking you to do"? 'Cause they're not your trainers, right? Like, you're at the Olympics.

   29. CSClaressa Shields20:27

       No, we got... No, we got the Olympic Training Center-

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       Right.
8. 32:23 – 35:37

   Running your own camp: entourage needs, loneliness, and staying sane

   1. JRJoe Rogan32:23

      Every child is different. Yeah. When you... When you set up a fight, like if a fight is set up for you and you have, uh, you know, eight, 12 weeks, whatever you need, are you organizing your schedule? Are you doing your strength and condi-... Are you organizing everything or do you have someone who does all that stuff for you? I know-

   2. CSClaressa Shields32:40

      I do all that myself.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:41

      You do all of it?

   4. CSClaressa Shields32:42

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:42

      Yeah.

   6. CSClaressa Shields32:43

      I've always done all of it. I think now, at the time of my career, like, I really need an entourage, for real.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:48

      (laughs)

   8. CSClaressa Shields32:48

      I mean, I need an entourage.

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:49

      What kind of entourage you need?

   10. CSClaressa Shields32:51

       I mean, I need a person... Okay, a person to keep me entertained. A person to watch my-

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       You need a per-... Like a jester? (laughs)

   12. CSClaressa Shields32:56

       A little bit. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       (laughs)

   14. CSClaressa Shields32:57

       I need somebody to, you know, wash my clothes for me, get my bag together.

   15. JRJoe Rogan33:01

       Right.

   16. CSClaressa Shields33:01

       I, I need somebody to make sure I got all my vitamins and water and stuff in the bag.

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:04

       Right.

   18. CSClaressa Shields33:05

       Because-

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:06

       You need a Bondini Brown. You need a hype person.

   20. CSClaressa Shields33:09

       A hype person too.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:10

       Right. You know?

   22. CSClaressa Shields33:10

       Yeah. You know, just for when I'm like... I, I, I need somebody to talk to people... Talk to people who are at the door.

   23. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CSClaressa Shields33:16

       Like I hate going to clubs and having to say-

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:19

       Right.

   26. CSClaressa Shields33:19

       "Hey, bro, I'm the champ, Claressa Shields," blah, blah, blah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:21

       Right.

   28. CSClaressa Shields33:21

       It's like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:22

       You need someone to do that for you.

   30. CSClaressa Shields33:22

       ... you should know who I am. Like I just get mad, so I would, I would rather have somebody right there who's like, "Hey, man, it's the champ. Look at her belts." Just holding the belts and-
9. 35:37 – 43:43

   Floyd Mayweather’s blueprint: money, matchmaking, and the psychology of attention

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:37

      That's not... (laughs) I'm not a hater, but I'm just thinking like what Floyd has done that's very u-... First of all, Floyd figured out a way to fight defensively but still be exciting because people want him to lose. Like Floyd, if you go back to Pretty Boy Floyd-

   2. CSClaressa Shields35:51

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:51

      ... when he was younger, he was very aggressive and-

   4. CSClaressa Shields35:53

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:53

      ... he knocked a lot of guys out, then had a lot of hand problems.

   6. CSClaressa Shields35:56

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:56

      Then as he gets older, fights far more defensively, but talks way more shit and shows all his watches and shows all his money and shows all his jets and all that shit, and people want him to lose-

   8. CSClaressa Shields36:08

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan36:08

      ... because he's so flashy. But people were paying money to see all these different people beat him, so he made more money by fighting defensively responsibly and by fighting like... You, you, you go through the history of boxing, there's never been a single human being that won as many titles as Floyd in men's boxing that has been hit as few times as he has. I mean-

   10. CSClaressa Shields36:31

       It's probably true.

   11. JRJoe Rogan36:33

       50 and 0. 49 and Conor Gr-... Conor McGregor. 50... The 50th fight, it's like-

   12. CSClaressa Shields36:38

       I mean, he went nine rounds, 50.

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:40

       It's real, but Conor had zero professional boxing fights. It's almost unfair. But it was a fight and Conor can crack. H- you know, as a MMA fighter, he's a good fighter. He's a very good fighter. But Floyd went all those fights against... I mean, the only times he ever got hit, Maidana hit him. Um, Sugar Shane Mosley hit him. Demarcus Corley hit him. He had a few fights-

   14. CSClaressa Shields37:01

       Demarcus Corley.

   15. JRJoe Rogan37:02

       Yeah. Chop Chop Corley.

   16. CSClaressa Shields37:03

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan37:04

       Remember him?

   18. CSClaressa Shields37:04

       I'm not even talking about... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:05

       Yeah.

   20. CSClaressa Shields37:05

       Chop Chop.

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:05

       He caught him.

   22. CSClaressa Shields37:06

       Okay.

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:06

       He caught Floyd. He had him in trouble.... but Floyd was so clever. He was so s- even when he got hit, he just knew how to protect himself.

   24. CSClaressa Shields37:13

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:14

       And then he slowly started putting all their moves and their distance and their timing into his computer, and next thing you know, he's shutting them down. And that's what he did-

   26. CSClaressa Shields37:22

       He learned his body, though.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:23

       ... with Sugar Shane. Yeah.

   28. CSClaressa Shields37:24

       He learned it as he got older. He's seeing like, "Okay, I may not be as fast as I was here, but I'm still- I can still do this, I can-

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:29

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CSClaressa Shields37:29

       ... still do that." I mean, I think his eyes is like what... His eyes is what set him apart from-
10. 43:43 – 1:00:25

    Women’s boxing vs MMA promotion: pay, exposure, and the ‘micro’ issues

    1. JRJoe Rogan43:43

       Well, there's no one else that's gonna get any attention. The thing is like, look, let's, let's go over the history of like famous women boxers, right?

    2. CSClaressa Shields43:50

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan43:50

       You had, uh, Christy Martin was one of the most high profile ones 'cause she was out there. But Lucia Rijker was the one that she was always scared of. Lu- Lucia Rijker was the killer.

    4. CSClaressa Shields44:00

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:00

       She was, uh, a woman from Holland who was fucking a lot of girls up.

    6. CSClaressa Shields44:05

       I love Lucia Rijker. She was my idol.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:06

       And she's a beast, she was a beast.

    8. CSClaressa Shields44:08

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       And, uh, she was also a Muay Thai champion.

    10. CSClaressa Shields44:10

        Yep.

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:10

        And, uh, or maybe Dutch kickboxing, but either way, um, when she went and tried to get that fight, they never, they never made that fight.

    12. CSClaressa Shields44:18

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:19

        So there's always like women fighters have always, uh, from, you know, unfortunate reasons, have had a limited number of rivals. There's not a lot of like high profile people like you out there.

    14. CSClaressa Shields44:30

        I feel like that's not true though.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:32

        Well, who's a, who's a high profile like you in women's boxing?

    16. CSClaressa Shields44:34

        I mean, we're talking about me, but I mean-

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:36

        Right, but that's what I'm saying. Sh-

    18. CSClaressa Shields44:37

        I'm talking about-

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:37

        Christy Martin in the day-

    20. CSClaressa Shields44:38

        Or like back in the day-

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:40

        ... was very high profile.

    22. CSClaressa Shields44:40

        ... they didn't put a lot of women on TV, so-

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:42

        Right.

    24. CSClaressa Shields44:43

        ... the only that you seen, Ch- Christy Martin name came fighting on the undercard of Mike Tyson.

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:47

        Right.

    26. CSClaressa Shields44:48

        And then La- Laila Ali came fighting on, you know, her, um, well, from her dad name, Muhammad Ali.

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:53

        Mm-hmm.

    28. CSClaressa Shields44:54

        Then we got Ann Wolfe, who people still don't know.

    29. JRJoe Rogan44:57

        Right.

    30. CSClaressa Shields44:57

        You know, which was like, but she was a killer. And Lucia Rijker, who people still don't know.
11. 1:00:25 – 1:09:44

    Why PFL: contract structure, monthly stipend, and the Kayla Harrison super-fight arc

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       And, and so, talk me through how, when did you decide to make a transition and try to fight in MMA, and why did you decide to sign with the PFL?

    2. CSClaressa Shields1:00:38

       Well, we had, I had been out the ring from last year January, and I was supposed to fight May. May got pushed back all the way till August. Then August to October, and then after that, we didn't hear nothing else from Showtime. Um, MMA organizations had already re- reached out to me prior. Like, you know, Dana, he wanted me to do something with Amanda, which I was like, um, not that I wouldn't, but it was like, "I need to give myself a fair chance." Like, this girl has been doing MMA for I don't know how long, and, you know, six weeks, I mean, six, six months to a year is just not enough time. Like, I'll go in there and, you know, I'm gonna fight with my, fight with my heart, but it's still, like, technique and everything is needed. So...I didn't look at that. We, we left that. Um, Bellator, (laughs) I don't know, like, we were actually close with them, but they said something about after Watching Me Box that I was too clean of a boxer for them, which I was like, "I don't-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:01:38

       What?

    4. CSClaressa Shields1:01:39

       ... know what the fuck that mean."

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       Too clean?

    6. CSClaressa Shields1:01:41

       Yeah. Like, I don't wanna go in there and just take risks and get punched in my face or something. I don't know.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:46

       Really?

    8. CSClaressa Shields1:01:46

       I just, I never even asked about it. Once my manager told me that, I said, "Cool." Like-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:51

       (laughs)

    10. CSClaressa Shields1:01:51

        ... "All right." (laughs) Like, nothing I can do about that.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

        Too clean of a boxer might be one of the dumbest things a person's ever said.

    12. CSClaressa Shields1:01:57

        It was the num- number th-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

        Too clean.

    14. CSClaressa Shields1:01:59

        ... dumbest thing that I've ever heard, so I just was like-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

        Too skillful, too sharp.

    16. CSClaressa Shields1:02:03

        Yeah, stuff like that. And I'm like-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:05

        Too... (laughs)

    18. CSClaressa Shields1:02:05

        ... "Oh, all right."

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:06

        Yeah.

    20. CSClaressa Shields1:02:06

        "Cool."

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:06

        You need to lead with your face. You wanna make some money? Like, grrr!

    22. CSClaressa Shields1:02:09

        Yeah, and it was like, mm-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

        Take shots. That's ridiculous.

    24. CSClaressa Shields1:02:12

        But we were just in the talks with them, so after we got that word, I was like, "Okay, whatever." And-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

        That's ridiculous.

    26. CSClaressa Shields1:02:17

        But it seemed like when I talked with the PFL, it was more of a serious offer. It wasn't like, "Hey, come over here, fight our best girl, Kayla Harrison, and then just go back to boxing."

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:25

        Right.

    28. CSClaressa Shields1:02:26

        It was a really, a lucrative, uh, deal. It was a three-year deal. And, um, I just had the chance to talk with, w- with the CEOs and the owners and, I mean, it was really a great conversation. And I'm the person, like, when it come to business, I just get on the phone and I listen. I don't say much. I'm like, "Hey, Clarisse, I'm here. You guys go ahead. Take over the floor." And I just listen. And to hear what they were saying, you know, just about, like, me coming to the PFL, um, you know, me having a option if I wanted to fight in the tournament next year or, or if I didn't, you know, helping me find trainers, uh, making a three-year, uh, contract. What I would get paid this year versus next year is a big jump. And you know, just somebody who's also putting money behind me, you know, um, every month, like looking out for me. Like w- if- if rather I'm doing MMA this month or next month, I still get paid every month. You know, so that was very-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:20

        Oh, so you get-

    30. CSClaressa Shields1:03:21

        ... very helpful for me.

Episode duration: 1:59:58