Joe Rogan Experience #1648 - Reggie Watts

Reggie Watts 0:00 (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (drum music)

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) We were just staring at-

Narrator 0:15 Rolling Stones.

Joe Rogan 0:15 ... shooting stars-

Reggie Watts 0:16 (laughs) Of course.

Joe Rogan 0:16 ... and black holes. Imagine what a black hole sounds like. What do you think it sounds like, don't you-

Reggie Watts 0:19 I think, didn't someone, uh, uh, they, they simulated it or something? Some physics, physicists simulated it or something?

Joe Rogan 0:25 Really?

Reggie Watts 0:26 Yeah, it's like-

Joe Rogan 0:26 See if you can find out.

Reggie Watts 0:27 It does make a, it does make a sound.

Narrator 0:28 Well, that's the best part of Interstellar.

Reggie Watts 0:30 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Wow.

Narrator 0:30 I mean, my favorite part of it-

Reggie Watts 0:31 Oh, man.

Narrator 0:31 ... at Chinese Theatre, I mean, it was so loud and fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Yeah. Oh, you want to see it there?

Narrator 0:36 I want to see it again there so bad.

Reggie Watts 0:38 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 0:38 IMAX is the place to see it, right?

Narrator 0:39 That's what it... It was the IMAX theatre-

Reggie Watts 0:41 Yes.

Narrator 0:41 ... he made it at. Like, he was testing it there to make sure it was to par and it was this, that way.

Joe Rogan 0:45 That's a bold movie, man.

Narrator 0:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 Very bold movie.

Reggie Watts 0:49 Oh, yeah. Super sick too.

Joe Rogan 0:50 Because think of all the, the, the elements that people have to follow along, especially the ending. Spoiler alert.

Reggie Watts 0:56 Oh, yeah, totally. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:56 But at the end when he's, like, looking at himself through-

Narrator 0:58 Full circle.

Joe Rogan 0:58 ... like, like, what, what is happening there?

Reggie Watts 1:01 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 Like, you gotta, like, if you're... You know, you take your, like, a kid there and he's like, "Dad, what is going on here?" You're like, (breathes out) .

Reggie Watts 1:07 (laughs) He's like, "I don't know, man. We're in the same spot."

Joe Rogan 1:10 "I can't really explain it, son."

Reggie Watts 1:11 We're saying-

Joe Rogan 1:11 "We'll talk about it later."

Reggie Watts 1:12 We're in the same spot.

Joe Rogan 1:13 "We'll get it on DVD."

Reggie Watts 1:14 Are those-

Joe Rogan 1:14 Does it, does it have the sound of it?

Narrator 1:17 Main engine is engaged.

Reggie Watts 1:18 That robot was so dope.

Narrator 1:20 One, two, three, four.

1:20 This isn't translating as great movie sound, but... (rocket roaring) It's just a rocket also is what it sounds like.

Joe Rogan 1:30 Yeah, this isn't working.

Narrator 1:31 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 1:31 Yeah, it's fine.

Narrator 1:32 One, two-

Joe Rogan 1:32 I would imagine without the rocket-

Reggie Watts 1:33 (laughs)

Narrator 1:34 Without any music.

Joe Rogan 1:34 ... it sounds like stars getting smushed.

Reggie Watts 1:36 Yes, it's like... I think it was like they were saying like, it's like a ... You know, that type of a thing.

Joe Rogan 1:41 Just the fact that that's a real thing, that in the center of every galaxy is this giant mass that's eating stars.

Reggie Watts 1:48 Star eaters.

Joe Rogan 1:49 Just ...

Reggie Watts 1:50 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Just sucking them into who knows what on the other end.

Reggie Watts 1:53 I, you know, it's, it's great. I love reading about it. I mean, I haven't read about black holes in a really long time since, uh, I think a Michio Kaku book that I had.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 2:01 But it was a while, a while ago. But, um, I mean, it's so fascinating that weird, like, you know that point, it's like the v- the event horizon. It's like theoretically it wouldn't work like this, but theoretically, there's just like a membrane and you're just close, close, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine. You just get sucked in-

Joe Rogan 2:17 Stretched.

Reggie Watts 2:17 ... and just stretched and broken, just crushed to bits.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 2:21 And then I guess just reconstituted as pure energy on the other side?

Joe Rogan 2:25 Yeah. What-

Reggie Watts 2:25 Because it definitely doesn't just gets destroyed, it gets redistributed. They're redistributors.

Joe Rogan 2:29 We're just so concerned about the finite life that we live, like we're so concerned of preserving this very fragile existence that the idea of getting reconstituted into pure energy in another dimension is like horrific.

Reggie Watts 2:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:44 But that's why we're here. We're here...

Reggie Watts 2:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:46 Right? We're here because a star exploded.

Reggie Watts 2:49 Yeah, yeah. We're made of stars.

Joe Rogan 2:50 What's that old song? << We are stardust. We are golden. >>

Reggie Watts 2:54 (snaps fingers) Uh.

Joe Rogan 2:55 << We're a billion-year-old comet. >>

Reggie Watts 2:57 Oh, is that from the '60s?

Joe Rogan 2:58 << And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. >>

Reggie Watts 3:03 It's like the Strawberry Alarm Clock or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:05 Yeah, Woodstock. Joni Mitch- Uh, well, Joni Mitchell did a version of it, but I don't think, uh, she was the origin- Well, she, maybe she was original. Maybe she wrote it. I don't know.

Reggie Watts 3:14 Huh.

Joe Rogan 3:14 But...

Reggie Watts 3:15 Joni Mitchell, artist, huh.

Joe Rogan 3:16 Oh.

Reggie Watts 3:17 Message to Love, Crosby, oh.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Oh, Crosby, Stills & Nash.

Reggie Watts 3:19 It's probably Crosby, Stills & Nash, definitely. When you were singing it-

Joe Rogan 3:21 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 3:21 ... the way you were singing it-

Joe Rogan 3:22 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 3:22 ... that's Crosby, Stills & Nash.

Joe Rogan 3:23 Can you give us a little of it before we get in trouble?

Narrator 3:25 Sure.

Joe Rogan 3:25 Gi- Give me a little taste. Give me a little taste.

Reggie Watts 3:27 Give us 2.6 seconds of it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:28 Give me a little taste of, like, 1970s acid, (rock music plays) 1970s acid and, uh, marijuana grown in that Mendocino range where that Hulu series-

Reggie Watts 3:42 The Emergence.

Joe Rogan 3:42 ... Sasquatch was made.

Reggie Watts 3:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:45 There it is.

Reggie Watts 3:45 Okay. (laughs)

3:46 Well, I came upon a child of God.

Joe Rogan 3:50 << He was walking down the road >>

Reggie Watts 3:53 Oh.

3:53 And that man, he told me.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 3:55 Oh, I haven't heard this.

Joe Rogan 3:56 You never heard this?

Reggie Watts 3:57 No.

Joe Rogan 3:58 Oh, my goodness. This is classic.

Reggie Watts 4:00 I gotta get into them.

4:01 Said I'm going down to Yasgur's Farm. Don't you hear them rock and roll?

4:06 Oh, Yasgur.

4:08 But don't you hear them rock and roll?

Joe Rogan 4:08 Keep it going. Fuck it. If we get pulled, we get pulled.

Reggie Watts 4:11 Gotta get back to that land.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Let's test Spotify's algorithms out. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 4:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:15 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 4:16 It's, it's like the Borg, man.

4:19 We are stardust. We are golden. We are billion-year-old carbon. And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden.

4:31 Ooh, ah, that's gorgeous.

Joe Rogan 4:33 That's pretty fucking good, man.

Reggie Watts 4:34 Whoo.

Joe Rogan 4:34 Especially when you're high.

Reggie Watts 4:36 Oh, that's special.

Joe Rogan 4:36 There's something about being high, that old music just resonates, man. Um, there's, there's some, there's some, like, Allman Brothers songs that are different when you're high. You listen to them when you're...

Reggie Watts 4:47 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 Like, like Midnight Rider.

Reggie Watts 4:49 I don't know if I know that one.

Joe Rogan 4:50 You don't know Midnight Rider?

Reggie Watts 4:51 I, I know... I'm terrible. I don't, I-

Joe Rogan 4:53 How dare you.

Reggie Watts 4:53 ... I apologize. I'll, I'll see it. It was just a really fun podcast.

Joe Rogan 4:56 You're a musician, Reggie.

Reggie Watts 4:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:56 You're a musician.

Reggie Watts 4:57 I know I'm supposed to know all music. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:59 This is outrageous.

Reggie Watts 5:00 I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Your mind is filled with electronica.

Reggie Watts 5:04 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:05 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 5:05 I know, I know. My zone is like so very specific and very surprising to people, but I love it.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Well, that's all that matters, man.

Reggie Watts 5:12 Of course, of course. But, I mean, I love... You know, I was... My philosophy on music when they're like, "What kind of music you listen to? What kind of..." Like, I'm like, "Anything that's good."

Joe Rogan 5:19 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 5:19 That's, that's always my answer.

Joe Rogan 5:20 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 5:20 It could be anything.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 5:21 Anything. Doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Anything that's good. Yeah.

Reggie Watts 5:23 Anything that's good. I mean, it's all subjective, but...

Joe Rogan 5:25 What were you gonna tell me? There was a lady you were gonna... I s- I stopped you. I said, "I'll save it for the podcast."

Reggie Watts 5:29 Oh, yeah, yeah, right. Um, yeah, my friend Kirsten Joy Weiss, she's a trick shooter. Um, uh, she's, she's, uh...

Joe Rogan 5:36 Like a pistol shooter?

Reggie Watts 5:37 Yeah, pistol, rifle. Um, and she lives in Cody, Wyoming, and she is amazing. Um, just a really cool independent thinker, like, she loves sci-fi. But she sent me these... I'll see if I'll... I can send you a video. You can see. She did like this, I guess, a shot that hasn't been duplicated before.

Joe Rogan 5:55 There she is. Look at this.

Reggie Watts 5:57 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:58 (laughs) She's, she's leaning back. For people that not listen, she's got her shins down on the ground and leaning back behind them and she's shooting 30 yards behind her-

Reggie Watts 6:09 Yeah.

Narrator 6:09 She's calling it gun pilates.

Joe Rogan 6:10 ... backwards.

Reggie Watts 6:11 Yeah, is that the-

Joe Rogan 6:12 She calls it gun pilates.

Reggie Watts 6:13 Was that the... Was that this one? Is that the long shooting or is it... Long Range Trick Shots that was called?

6:19 ... uh, trick ... It says Gunplay's trick shot.

6:22 Okay, yeah.

6:23 Yousment 2 or-

Joe Rogan 6:24 There's a whole market for hot girls with guns. Do you know that? Like, hot, the hot girl gun world?

Reggie Watts 6:29 Not that one.

6:30 Yeah. It's, it's funny. But you know what? The interesting thing that is different about her, she's almost like ... She's just a badass shooter that happens to be a-

Joe Rogan 6:39 Hot.

Reggie Watts 6:39 ... an attractive woman. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:40 Right.

Reggie Watts 6:40 Yeah. (laughs) I mean, she, she ... But she's like a ... She's the real deal. She was gonna be on ... Uh, she trained in the Olympics, uh, on the Olympic team. Um, and, uh, and I like her videos because she talks about ... I mean, it's called The Joy of Shooting, obviously, but, but I mean, it's a play on her name, but, but she really does mean it. She's just talking about like, "Hey, this is a cool exercise." And kind of like a meditative exercise, like, like shooting and target practice is meditative. And the cool thing about her, she does everything herself. Every video that you see is just her with a camera and a tripod, all her editing. She's super DIY.

Joe Rogan 7:14 Oh.

Reggie Watts 7:14 That's what I like about her.

Joe Rogan 7:15 That's cool.

Reggie Watts 7:15 She's, she's sick. And she's like-

7:17 The video's playing on his phone.

7:17 ... very philosophical. Very cool.

Joe Rogan 7:19 What are you saying, Jim?

Reggie Watts 7:20 The video's playing on his phone.

7:21 Oh, I'm so sorry. Sheesh.

Joe Rogan 7:23 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 7:23 I am going to stop that right now. Sorry, Kierstin, wherever you are.

Joe Rogan 7:27 The, um-

Reggie Watts 7:27 Um-

Joe Rogan 7:28 She's badass. It is true though that shooting is like very meditative, right?

Reggie Watts 7:32 Oh, completely.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 7:33 Are you kidding? I mean, it's like any ... You know. It's like a, it's ... You know, you're shooting a project- ... Whether you're shooting or it's a bow and arrow, or it's a crossbow or bow, or it's a sling, or you're throwing a ball, like-

Joe Rogan 7:42 Even darts.

Reggie Watts 7:43 Oh, man. Darts, especially.

Joe Rogan 7:44 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 7:45 Darts, especially. I mean-

Joe Rogan 7:46 Like just to try to get that arc right.

Reggie Watts 7:48 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 7:48 And you're like, "Ugh."

Reggie Watts 7:49 Yeah. You're like thinking, not thinking, muscle memory, learning.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Also like the weirdness of like letting that thing go. Like you don't wanna let it ... You don't wanna drop your hand down. You gotta like release it at the exact right time, like ...

Reggie Watts 8:02 Yes. Yes. I know it's ... I l- ... I, I went ax throwing in Great Falls, Montana, uh, recently with my friend.

Joe Rogan 8:08 It sounds like a Great Falls, Montana activity.

Reggie Watts 8:10 Oh, are you kidding? It's so great fun.

Joe Rogan 8:11 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 8:12 I'm with my friend Kelly. He's, he's awesome. His family's cool. I went with my mom. I brought my mom.

Joe Rogan 8:16 Your mom was ax throwing?

Reggie Watts 8:17 My mom ... No, my mom was like 83, just like sitting in a chair drinking wine.

Joe Rogan 8:21 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 8:21 And we're just ... She's like three feet away from people throwing axes at walls.

Joe Rogan 8:25 That's hilarious.

Reggie Watts 8:26 Just like, "Oh, this is so awesome."

Joe Rogan 8:27 Sipping wine while people hurl blades.

Reggie Watts 8:29 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:30 That's very funny.

Reggie Watts 8:31 My friend Kelly was a re- ... He's so ridiculously good at it. I, uh, it was, it was stupid. He was ... He'd like not look, he'd turn around and throw the ax behind his back, and it would land on the target. He would take two axes and throw them simultaneously and they would land ... And he's not like ... He's just a natural at it. It's very strange.

Joe Rogan 8:47 He doesn't practice?

Reggie Watts 8:48 I mean, he's been there a few times, but he was already a natural the first time he went. So like the-

Joe Rogan 8:53 Really?

Reggie Watts 8:53 ... uh, people who work there are just like, "Hey, are you, are you on a league?" You know, like that type of thing.

Joe Rogan 8:56 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 8:56 He's like, "No, I just do it for fun." You know, it's like a movie, right? Right?

Joe Rogan 9:00 So-

Reggie Watts 9:00 It's about ax throwing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:01 Naturals are weird.

Reggie Watts 9:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:03 Like a natural in anything is a strange thing, when you see someone who's just really good at something right away.

Reggie Watts 9:07 Yeah. It just makes sense, you know. It's like they just have this ability to like, "Oh, yeah. Like this." And you're like, "Wait, but I've been training for five years," (laughs) and you're like-

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 9:15 They just see it and they just, they just have it.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Yeah, but it's annoying.

Reggie Watts 9:18 It is annoying.

Joe Rogan 9:19 If you're a person who's been like studying your whole life and some guy comes around, "Oh, you mean like this?" Thunk.

Reggie Watts 9:24 Yeah, and like-

Joe Rogan 9:24 You're like, "Ugh."

Reggie Watts 9:27 And then you've got-

Joe Rogan 9:28 Ugh.

Reggie Watts 9:28 Then you've got, then you've got problems and then you have to deal with it.

Joe Rogan 9:31 Bodies are not- Bodies are not fair, you know. They're not fair. Some people's bodies just work way better.

Reggie Watts 9:36 Oh, man. I mean, for me, like I always had a good ear. So like if I heard an accent, if I heard, um, you know, Olivia Newton-John on the radio or whatever, I could mimic them, the, her timbre and the m- and the texture and-

Joe Rogan 9:48 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 9:49 ... really, really easily. And so for me, music came pretty eas- ... I mean, obviously the theory is the theory and that, and that's something you have to learn. But I, I had an ear, so even if I didn't learn theory, but I kept playing with musicians, I would have been fine 'cause I would have figured it out, just with my ear.

Joe Rogan 10:03 When did you start learning music?

Reggie Watts 10:05 Age five.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Wow. That's a, that's a nice advantage.

Reggie Watts 10:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:09 So you grew up with a m- a musical mind?

Reggie Watts 10:12 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love ... You know, my, my parents, you know, we were in Europe for a while because of the military Air Force, and, uh, we moved around. And then, uh, so I was born in Stuttgart, and then we moved, uh, to, I think like Italy, ended up in Spain for two years, the final two years till age four, then we moved to Great Falls, Montana to Malmstrom Air Force Base. But, uh, in that time, you know, I just loved ... My parents loved jazz, Ray Charles. You know, my mom listened to French, a lot of French or European folk music, like Ana- Ana Mouskouri and, uh, Edith Piaf and things like that. So I, I was hearing that all the time, and I saw Ray Charles, and I loved the way he moved.

Joe Rogan 10:48 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 10:48 And he had the sunglasses and playing piano. And so I used to sit at the edge of the table and pretend like I was Ray Charles. And they were like, "Oh, let's get him a toy piano," and they did. And then, uh, and then my mom was like, "Do you wanna have lessons or..." I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." So I was like, you know, almost 6, 5, and I started studying, uh, classical piano, like private, private lessons. It was awesome.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Is there anyone that's learned piano without lessons? 'Cause I know people who've learned guitar without lessons.

Reggie Watts 11:13 Oh, yeah. 100%.

Joe Rogan 11:15 Yeah?

Reggie Watts 11:15 Uh, yeah. It's just by ear. The piano actually is an easier instrument to learn by ear because-

Joe Rogan 11:19 Really?

Reggie Watts 11:19 ... it's a grid. It's just a grid. It's not like when you have a stringed instrument where you have like a, a fretless board like a cello or violin or something like that, right? It's like there's no fret, there's no marking, so you have to really know where to put your finger, and you have to know the technique of bowing.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 11:34 There's a lot of complicated stuff.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 11:35 In piano, it's like, "Uh." You know?

Joe Rogan 11:37 Uh-huh.

Reggie Watts 11:37 Note, right? And so ... And then you, and then you start to notice, oh, it's a pattern. It keeps repeating, but it just goes higher and higher or lower and lower.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Th- that's interesting. Does it feel more limited because it's just you're pressing buttons rather than the, the creativity that's involved in a musical instrument that has chords that you can manipulate?

Reggie Watts 11:56 Mm-hmm. No, I, I would say that, uh, I think what's great about a piano is that, uh, yes, you have like the basic, these are chords and things like that, but you have dynamics. Um, then you have note combinations. And then if you really wanna get crazy, like j- John Cage or whatever, prepared pianos where they're putting screws in the string board, you know, or in the ... I forget what it's called, but the, the board where the strings are.

Joe Rogan 12:17 What do you mean?

Reggie Watts 12:17 Um, the soundboard, I guess. It's ... Uh, so they would put a screw next to a s- uh, a string, so that when you hit a note, it's, it ... (vibration sound) It would just vibrate against the metal.

Joe Rogan 12:28 Oh.

Reggie Watts 12:28 And they would have certain keys prepared, so they call it prepared piano. So John Cage wrote a bunch of prepared piano pieces where they'd modify the soundboard of the, of the piano. And, uh, as ... And then he would write music for it, and you would play the music and certain notes would have metallic sounds, and sometimes-

Joe Rogan 12:44 Wow.

Reggie Watts 12:45 ... notes wouldn't be there, a bunch of stuff. Um, so the piano is like ... It's a good basic instrument.... that's a good foundation.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Now, when digital keyboards came out, well, there, a lot of people, like, resisted the sound of digital keyboards. Like, I remem- I remember when Jump on Eddie Van Halen played Jump.

Reggie Watts 13:02 Oh, yeah. Huge deal, right? Revolt. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:02 People were very upset. Hugely upset.

Reggie Watts 13:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Like, "What the fuck is this? You guys were running with the devil."

Reggie Watts 13:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:08 "How did you get to this?"

Reggie Watts 13:10 I know.

Joe Rogan 13:10 But-

Reggie Watts 13:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:12 ... still a good song, man.

Reggie Watts 13:13 Oh, it's an amazing song, but that's how things go, right?

Joe Rogan 13:15 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 13:15 It's like someone comes up... I mean, you know, essentially synthesizers, you know, they c- came from, what, like, the, the '50s or whatever, like, oscillators, things that made s- It's an a- all it, all it is just a sound going (imitates synthesizer) and then you have another sound which collides with it which creates texture, right? 'Cause they're battling each other. And you change the wavelength, the frequency, then multiply that and, and put it onto a keyboard. Now you've got a synthesizer, right? But then Buchla back in the day had... His idea of synthesis was just like, like, a, a strip of, like, random sounds you could manipulate, just move up and down. And so there was a... kind of this battle between Buchla's philosophy, which was a West Coast philosophy, and Moog's philosophy, which was an East Coast philosophy. But Moog was like, "We're gonna make the interface a, a, a really easy to understand one, which is the keyboard, the piano and keyboard."

Joe Rogan 14:00 What I was gonna get to is, like, did, uh, uh... The current piano keyboards, like the current electrical keyboards, have they gotten to the place where they can actually recreate the sound of a great piano?

Reggie Watts 14:14 Really close. Really, really close.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Could you tell the difference?

Reggie Watts 14:17 Um, uh, it's hard because it depends on the context. If you're listening to it just naked and, and then you're running through tests like the lowest note, um, a note in the middle of the keyboard, and then the highest note, I think someone who plays piano, they might be able to tell. But now the, the s- sampling is so crazy. They'll sample one note so many times and then they duplicate that all the way down the length of the keyboard. And, uh, when you hear... You can't really hear the difference, especially in a song. It just sounds like a real piano or it sounds like a real Rhodes. Like, um, Nord makes, uh, the Nord Electro, which is what I usually use. It emulates electric pianos, Wurlitzers, and, and, uh, also pianos, and I guess organs as well. Um, but the... It sounds so good. (laughs) It almost sounds sometimes better.

Joe Rogan 15:08 Really?

Reggie Watts 15:08 Sometimes. Just because it's, it's like... Imagine the optimal version of a Rhodes, like, Mark II or something like that or whatever, like, a very popular Rhodes. Uh-

Joe Rogan 15:17 That's a type of piano?

Reggie Watts 15:18 Yeah, it's a t- Yeah, so a Rhodes electric piano. It's what you heard the most in the '70s. That and Wurlitzer. Wurlitzer sounds more plucky. It's like a... You've heard it, like, (singing) ooh, you're making me miss-

Joe Rogan 15:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Reggie Watts 15:28 ... (singing) being in America so... That's a Wurlitzer.

Joe Rogan 15:31 Right.

Reggie Watts 15:31 (singing) Boo-boo-beh, boh-boo-bay, tay-tuh-tay uh-day. Um, so you've got that, and then you've got Rhodes which more like, um, uh, Fly Like an Eagle, which is like-

Joe Rogan 15:40 Oh.

Reggie Watts 15:40 (singing) Bee-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo. All that stuff from the High South.

Joe Rogan 15:43 (singing) Doo-doo, doo-doo.

Reggie Watts 15:44 Yeah. (singing) Doo, doo, bah, bah, bah. Um, so... And the Rhodes is a little bit more versatile. Wurlitzer is very, "Oh, that's a Wurlitzer." But, uh, you know, all these pianos, it's like, imagine them at their peak condition, 'cause they're always... They're mechanical, right? So it's like there's always a... You have to send them to a tech to tune 'em up, you know. Maybe the pickups aren't working right, or maybe, um, you know, there's an element that's not functioning properly. So imagine the most optimal version of that instrument in, uh... Just that stays constant, and that's kind of, like, what a, what a Nord is. And I know that there'll be people out there going like, "Those n-" You know, there's a-

Joe Rogan 16:15 Right.

Reggie Watts 16:15 ... difference. But in general, uh, you know, keyboard players I know, they're very comfortable playing, like, like, my friend who has a Rhodes, Hammond B3, Clavinet, dude. He loved the Clavi-... And the Clavinet s- kind of sounds like a, like, (singing) ba, bah, dent, dun, dent, dun, dun, dun. (singing)

Joe Rogan 16:30 Oh, okay.

Reggie Watts 16:34 Uh, um, not the vocal part, but there's a keyboard and that's, um, and that is the, uh, Wurlitzer. Or, not the Wurlitzer, it's, uh, the Clavinet with a wah-wah pedal, which was very, very popular. But he played all of it, Rhodes, Clavinet, Hammond B3. And it was insane to watch him, like, drag this to all the gigs. Like, he dragged a full Hammond B3 and, and, uh, like, we're carrying it like a sarcophagus, you know, like, out of this van and then, like, into the gig, plus the cabinet, into the Leslie, the rotating speaker. So it was huge. I mean, it was huge. And then he would put his Clavinet on top of that and he had his Rhodes. And so every gig we had all those things. But then the Nord came out and he was like, "Oh, fuck it." (laughs) He started playing the Nord because the Nord sounded so good. And that was in the early days. And now it's insane.

Joe Rogan 17:16 And it had everything.

Reggie Watts 17:18 It, it had... Well, kind of. Yes, it does. You can... But you would still probably want to sep-... You'd get two. You'd get one that's, like, like a stage, which is for, like, piano sounds, and then there's one that's kind of, like, more oriented to Rhodes. And then you have an HP series which is semi-weighted, so it feels more like a Rhodes. So it feels... It's got a mechanical weighting as opposed to synthesizers which feels like you're pressing a nothing.

Joe Rogan 17:41 Mm.

Reggie Watts 17:41 Like, it's just super... You could, like, solo all over that thing with no resistance. But the HP series has, is semi-weighted. And then you got the Hammond, uh, version which has, like, stacks and drawbars on it. So it really goes... And then you can hook that into an actual Leslie cabinet. So they make smaller Leslie cabinets. So you have a small Leslie cabinet, a Nord organ simulator, and you've got a Hammond B3.

Joe Rogan 18:03 So what these simulators do... Are they literally recording the sound of an actual piano?

Reggie Watts 18:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:09 So it's not a, a sound that the thing makes.

Reggie Watts 18:12 No.

Joe Rogan 18:12 It's... You're just pressing a play.

Reggie Watts 18:14 Yes. As far as I understand it, um, yeah, they're... Essentially they're doing oversampling or they're sampling, um, multiple, multiple times, uh, the instrument. It's like a... Think of it as, like, a super hi-res scan of the instrument.

Joe Rogan 18:25 And then it, uh, it's all in, like, w- how it's projected through to the amplifier-

Reggie Watts 18:31 That's correct.

Joe Rogan 18:32 ... to make sure the sound actually resembles a piano or recreates-

Reggie Watts 18:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:36 ... a piano?

Reggie Watts 18:37 Yeah. And a lot of it has to do with, um, uh, the, the interface, like, how, how do the keys react? Does... Is it similar to how the instrument reacts? And then they can build in all kinds of algorithms for that. So how hard you're hitting it, or if you hit it really hard, does it have that bite? Like a Rhodes-

Joe Rogan 18:53 Mm.

Reggie Watts 18:53 ... if you hit it softly, it's just like, ding-... but then if you hit it really hard, it goes (imitates synth sound) kind of. Terribly sorry.

Joe Rogan 19:00 Y- y- there's manipulation, mechanical manipulation-

Reggie Watts 19:03 Yes. And they-

Joe Rogan 19:04 ... which is like a real instrument.

Reggie Watts 19:05 Yeah. And they, they, they put that in there. And then, like, you know, I remember getting my first synth was a Roland W-30, which was the- technically, the first workstation, which was- it was a synthesizer that had a sampler built into it. Um, you could write on it. It had a 16-track- I think it was a 16-track sequencer and, um, and was just like a regular synthesizer, but it had aftertouch, so, like, if you press a sound and then you pressed a little harder, it would actually make another sound.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Mm.

Reggie Watts 19:35 So you could do- so you- and you could program it any way you wanted, right?

Joe Rogan 19:38 So it can recreate pretty much any sound that you would in a regular musical instrument, but is real important?

Reggie Watts 19:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:45 Is like- is real- it doesn't matter? Because if you know that what you're doing is pressing play on this thing and it's recreating the sound of a piano rather than actually that little felt-covered hammer-

Reggie Watts 19:59 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... hitting the string-

Reggie Watts 20:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:01 ... and creating that sound, is that important that that actually takes place?

Reggie Watts 20:05 (smacks lips)

Joe Rogan 20:05 Because there's implications to this kind of simulation of stuff that would apply to a lot of other things that make people uncomfortable, like love.

Reggie Watts 20:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:14 Like artificial love.

Reggie Watts 20:16 Sure. Sure.

Joe Rogan 20:16 Some robot lady-

Reggie Watts 20:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:18 ... that is, uh, "What we've done, we've recorded all the sounds your lover could make."

Reggie Watts 20:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:22 You know? And, you know, and if you-

Reggie Watts 20:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:24 ... spank her, like, maybe she'll like it, maybe she won't.

Reggie Watts 20:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:27 And you're like, "What? What are we doing?"

Reggie Watts 20:30 Yeah, why?

Joe Rogan 20:30 You know what I mean? But, I mean, if- w- we could-

Reggie Watts 20:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:33 There's implications here, right? Like-

Reggie Watts 20:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:35 ... we could get to artificial life and you could have a friend that's not really your friend, who, like, sometimes he flakes on you.

Reggie Watts 20:41 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:41 But it's like, what is this fucking weird program this guy is running? What's a human?

Reggie Watts 20:46 I know. I mean, you know, taking it to that level. I mean- well, you know, instrument-wise, there's people that argue, like, I have to have my- I mean, like, Regina Spektor is not gonna show up at a gig playing, um, a- a- she's not gonna play, like, uh, an electronic version of a piano. She's not gonna play an electronic piano.

Joe Rogan 21:00 She's gonna play a real piano.

Reggie Watts 21:00 She's gonna play a real piano because-

Joe Rogan 21:03 Tory Amos.

Reggie Watts 21:03 ... she lo- she loves- yeah, Tory Amos. Like, they have to have their Bösendorfers or their Steinways-

Joe Rogan 21:07 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 21:07 ... or whatever. They, they need that instrument because that's how they create. They need the weight of it, like, to- 'cause when you're behind a piano, I mean, the weight of it and seeing the lid up, if that's how you have your playing style, but if the lid's up and you can see the length of it, you can see-

Joe Rogan 21:20 Is it a sound issue with the lid up or down?

Reggie Watts 21:23 Yes, it is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:23 What is the difference?

Reggie Watts 21:24 They're made to project.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 21:25 So that's why, uh, you'll see grand pianos at an angle facing... Like, if you went to a classical-

Joe Rogan 21:30 Mm.

Reggie Watts 21:30 ... performance or went to a, a, yeah, like a theater amp, um, you would see the piano and then the lid up. It projects the sound outward to the audience.

Joe Rogan 21:38 And then I guess there's a microphone that's near the piano that picks it up?

Reggie Watts 21:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:41 And you have to figure out where to put the microphone?

Reggie Watts 21:43 They'll do that, and sometimes they'll do contact mics as well.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Oh, like a guitar?

Reggie Watts 21:48 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:48 So it plugs right in.

Reggie Watts 21:49 Yeah, they'll put it, like, on the soundboard. So sometimes it'll be on the soundboard or a hybrid system. And so they can mix in between, um, uh, for amplification. But in, like, traditional settings, in a medium-sized room, they would just let the piano project into the room naturally.

Joe Rogan 22:03 There's a thing that we're, we're hitting on here though, right? W- with things being real or not real. And in-

Reggie Watts 22:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:12 ... musical instruments, that- that seems like a, a very- an applicable analogy. Like, there's a thing that happens all the time now with musical instruments where you can actually- I mean, you can re- recreate drums without any drums, right?

Reggie Watts 22:26 Oh. Oh, easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, synthesizers were mimicking all kinds of instruments for a long time. Not very well, but, uh, you know, early drum machines. That's-

Joe Rogan 22:36 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 22:36 It's- basically it's all the same principle. It's a sound wave that's being generated and then collisions with a secondary oscillator, or sometimes even more, and then you're changing properties of each of those. And you can change, like, how long it plays, or if it- if you press it once, does it keep holding if you keep holding it? Or do you press it and keep holding it and it stops? You know, there's, there's these- all these parameters, like a three-dimensional equation, you can, you can shape things. So that's why you got, like (imitates synth sound) that's all synthesizer.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Mm.

Reggie Watts 23:03 That's synthesized. So, like, early organs, when organs were popular back in the day, in the '70s or whatever, and you had your sheet music and your organ.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Right.

Reggie Watts 23:10 And they had the drum machine that Shuggie Otis used, you know, uh, or, um, uh, Sly and the Family Stone notoriously used the, the ogen- the organ modulate- or module for drum sounds and built an entire track around it. It's all synthesizers. It's crazy. Or the, uh, 808, you know, the famous Roland 808, which is, like, probably the most well-known drum machine, uh, in the planet. Um, it was just a synthesizer that only focused on making drum-like sounds that you could program.

Joe Rogan 23:39 I remember that. Um, obviously, um, there's a lot of people that have a lot of issues with a lot of these things, like-

Reggie Watts 23:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:45 ... other musicians, but the first rumblings I ever heard about it was drum machines.

Reggie Watts 23:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:49 Like people that did not like a fake drum you could hear it in the background (imitates drum sound)

Reggie Watts 23:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:53 And they'd get mad.

Reggie Watts 23:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:54 Like, "Oh, it's a fucking drum machine."

Reggie Watts 23:56 Yes. Yes. Of course they're gonna get mad. I mean, 'cause it, like, puts- it- they, they perceive it as a threat to, um, you know, perhaps an entire career based on, like, being a drummer, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:06 Is it that or is it also that they are no longer appreciating someone's skill? Like, if you hear someone play-

Reggie Watts 24:14 Mm. Sure.

Joe Rogan 24:15 ... there's, there's skill to it and you-

Reggie Watts 24:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 24:17 ... you enjoy it. You, you enjoy, like, "Oh, look at him go off." Like Bill Burr is really good at the drums and he-

Reggie Watts 24:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:22 ... fucking loves drummers and-

Reggie Watts 24:23 Love him.

Joe Rogan 24:24 ... loves to talk about drummers and he'll, he'll send me clips of guys going off with drums.

Reggie Watts 24:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:29 Like people who are really good with drums, like- and if- there's something, like y- you're getting a per- there's a piece of that person that's coming out through their playing. Like if Travis Barker-

Reggie Watts 24:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:40 ... goes off on the drums, like, that's Travis Barker-

Reggie Watts 24:43 Sure.

Joe Rogan 24:43 ... expressing himself.

Reggie Watts 24:45 Yeah. Well, that's the cool thing about it, there is no threat, essentially. Oh, um, I mean, I'm speaking, going back to that threat k- kind of thing. It's like, there is no threat in that, that person's gonna be who they are, and no one's gonna replace a, a drummer. I mean, certainly, I used to play sampled drums on the keyboard live for hip-hop groups, you know? So I'd just be (beatboxes) but I'm just playing it. But because it has, it's a drum kit sound, and it's over sampled or it's, it's sampled so that each, however I hit it, if I hit it harder, the snare sounds a little bit harder hit. Or if it's softer, it resonates a little bit more. I would get into the, the feel of it. So I was kind of like a keyboard drummer, right? Um, but, uh, so there's that crossover element of it. But a lot of drummers, you know, when you're listening to music and you listen to a drum, a, a beat, you're like, "Wow, that's a really well done." They just like rhythm.

Joe Rogan 25:35 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 25:36 So it's not really about like, um, "Oh, you know, fuck those guys. You know, it's a, it's a drum machine. They coulda just got a drummer." It's like people don't really think like that anymore. Now a lot of drummers program their own beats and, and because they just like rhythm. But, uh, you know, of course, a player playing it, you just can't... There is no substitution for that, you know? Hearing people play. And a lot of drummers started playing like drum machines. Like, remember the end of Erykah Badu... Or no, the Roots song, um, (singing) that whole thing, that whole song, it, it just starts cycling that melody. And then you hear at the very end, it's so tasteful. At the very, very end, it was when drum and bass was making a, was kind of on the scene for a little while, since '95. And you hear at the end, Questlove starts going (beatboxes) He's playing like drum and bass producers, uh, making drum and bass beats. So he's mimicking that. And then there was, like, a bunch of cats in my own town on our jam nights that purposefully would set up a kit where it would have two or three s- uh, snares, like this guy KJ Saka, monster drummer. Two or three different kits, so essentially, he'd just rotate this way and he'd have a different kit, different kit here, and a different kit there.

Joe Rogan 26:55 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 26:55 So it'd be (beatboxes) So it would sound like sliced samples-

Joe Rogan 27:03 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 27:03 ... stuck together to make a beat, just like they actually made the beats.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Right.

Reggie Watts 27:08 So you get this call and response that happens. So you get, like, here's drum... So there's drum machines, then there's sampled programming, and then you got drummers (laughs) mimicking drum sampled programming, and then sampled programmers mixing and hybridizing both of those approaches at the same time. So music is like, there are no limits and, and the, the, the confines or the constraints or introduction of new technology is more exciting to me as a creator than anything.

Joe Rogan 27:34 Well, you're a technology enthusiast though-

Reggie Watts 27:36 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:37 ... on top of being a musician.

Reggie Watts 27:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:38 So that, that also applies. But it, it's like the, there's a difference in whether or not you're appreciating someone's artistic manipulation of musical instruments or whether you're just appreciating the final sound. Like, for some people-

Reggie Watts 27:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:53 ... that don't like myself, who's not... I don't know anything about music, but I, I like sounds. I like-

Reggie Watts 27:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:57 ... "Oh, that sounds cool." And if it, the sound comes out of an electronic simulator or-

Reggie Watts 28:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:02 ... synthesizer, it's cool. But I think there's something that's really special about, like, the way Gary Clark Jr. plays guitar.

Reggie Watts 28:11 Oh, are you kidding?

Joe Rogan 28:11 You know what I mean?

Reggie Watts 28:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:12 Like, there's something about, like, knowing that that's a dude with strings and he's making these wild noises.

Reggie Watts 28:19 Oh, man, yeah. I mean, you know, do you know Thundercat?

Joe Rogan 28:21 Yes.

Reggie Watts 28:22 Okay, so Thundercat, genius, total genius, good friend of mine, an amaz-... I just, I love him so much. He plays the bass like he's playing three instruments at once, right?

Joe Rogan 28:32 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 28:32 He's, he, he's, he's one of those guys that's... He's a hybrid guy. So he's taking, like, the idea of multi-track music and he's playing it live on his bass.

Joe Rogan 28:41 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 28:41 So you hear him, um, essentially, like, like how a beatboxer will beatbox and you think you're hearing the whole sound, the whole song. Like, let's say they're doing a cover or whatever, and it's just them, there's no effects. They're just doing it, and you're like, "Oh, there's the melody line. There's the hook. Oh, and there's that drum beat. Oh, and there's the bass line." But they're doing this trick where some of their, some of their body is playing, uh, aspects of the rhythm. Melody-wise, they're figuring out ways to sneak breaths in, use an inhale as a rhythm sound, an exhale as a rhythm sound. Then they're using their voice to, to put a melody in there, then sneaking a bass line, uh, in between the notes.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 29:19 Fluctuating. And there's actually some notes missing, but your brain fills it in because it's a cover. You've heard it before. So it's a trick. So they're essentially suggesting the things you already know by constantly referencing them, but they're sewing it together when thing... And, and, uh, Thundercat's the same way. He's, like, playing rhythms, chords, melodies at the same time.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Oh.

Reggie Watts 29:41 All at the same time. And it's just mind-blowing. I love watching musicians like that.

Joe Rogan 29:46 And is this his own sort of style that he's created?

Reggie Watts 29:50 Yeah, it's kind of like, imagine like a... It's an evolution of jazz fusion. So Jaco Pastorius, for instance, like the, you know, the innovator of fretless electric, uh, bass, bass guitar. Um, and then you got like, um, uh, I'm forgetting his name. Clark, his last name was Clark, but he was a giant hands amazing bass player. Uh, or Pino Palladino, you know? Like, they're these monster bass players. They have, like, five-string basses, you know? Just, like, thick-necked basses and they're playing-

Joe Rogan 30:17 What's a normal bass have? How many strings? Four?

Reggie Watts 30:19 Four, four strings, yeah, and then you got five, sometimes even six string basses.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Really?

Reggie Watts 30:22 They're just insane. And so you got, like, people that are hybridizing. It's like, "This is my instrument. I learned on a four string. I can, like, hold it down. I can do this, I can do that, but I want more." So they start figuring out ways to sneak in, like, "Oh, now I'm gonna make a sound if I hit the body of the instrument, the pickups, I put in a different pickup. So when I hit the body of s- of the instrument, it sounds like a drum sound. So now I'm, like, hitting it, strumming, doing, uh, hammer-ons so I don't actually need to be strumming and I'm hitting, doing melodies, still playing a melody on the fretboard and then, then pulling, slapping." Uh, you know, it's, it's crazy. But, um, yes, but to your point, musicianship, to see it is amazing. But there are, there are musicians, um-... I'm trying to think of his name. Short-term memory gone. He plays a grid, uh, which was like pretty popular like six or seven years ago. And there's just a, it's just a grid of lights and you assign sounds to it. And he's (laughs) playing both of them with his hands. So he's playing samples, and beats, and rhythms that sounds like electronic tracks. And when you're hearing it, you're like, "Oh, he's just playing along to a track." It's like, no, he's doing everything at once. So it sounds like a full-on techno track.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Huh.

Reggie Watts 31:29 But he's like (beatboxes) , you know? And, but he's like, "Do..." (beatboxes) You know, it's insane to me.

Joe Rogan 31:37 It's funny how people like to dismiss certain things as being, like, either not legitimate or not good enou-... Like scratching, like DJ's.

Reggie Watts 31:48 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 31:48 Like some DJ's, they, they y- yeah, they are sampling other people's music.

Reggie Watts 31:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:54 But the way they're putting it together is unique and it's really entertaining. Like there's something cool about it.

Reggie Watts 32:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:01 Like, you know, Russell Peters is a legit g- DJ.

Reggie Watts 32:04 Oh, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 32:04 You didn't know that?

Reggie Watts 32:05 Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 32:05 Yeah, Russell's legit. And you talk to Russell about "DJ's"-

Reggie Watts 32:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:08 ... that are not really DJ's.

Reggie Watts 32:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:09 They just press play on their laptop.

Reggie Watts 32:11 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:11 He gets furious.

Reggie Watts 32:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:13 He fucking hates it because he really spins records.

Reggie Watts 32:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:16 He's got the headphones, he's doing the whole thing, and-

Reggie Watts 32:18 Yeah, he's mixing live. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:19 Yeah, exactly.

Reggie Watts 32:20 Well, yeah, you know, I mean, essentially, like, you know, people that I've, I've (laughs) been asked to DJ parties and I'm literally... I, it's what, what you call selectors. You can be a selector. Don't call yourself a DJ.

Joe Rogan 32:30 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 32:30 You can call yourself a selector. You're just someone who's like, "Oh, well. Oh, this song would be nice next." You know? And then you press... You... The, the song ends and then you press play for the next song. That's sometimes-

Joe Rogan 32:39 But isn't... DJ's a weird word, right? Because it used to be disc jockey-

Reggie Watts 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 ... which is a guy on the radio that just played songs.

Reggie Watts 32:44 Right, that's true, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:45 So that's the original DJ-

Reggie Watts 32:46 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:46 ... had nothing to do with mixing.

Reggie Watts 32:48 N- not, not, not technically. I mean, other than the records, right?

Joe Rogan 32:51 Right.

Reggie Watts 32:51 So like back in the day, like, oh, I had a record player and the guy's like (scratches records) , "Oh, wait a minute." (scratches records) "What?" (scratches records) And I'm like, "Oh, but if I also use the volume fader..." So that, so they are, they were still a DJ technically, but now it's evolved.

Joe Rogan 33:04 But not the guys who were on like Wolfman Jack, like...

Reggie Watts 33:06 Hey, everybody. This is Wolfman Jack. How you doing here? Come on in-

Joe Rogan 33:08 Yeah, they were just DJ's.

Reggie Watts 33:09 Yeah, true.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Like that was the original DJ. Like the word DJ changed.

Reggie Watts 33:13 Sure. A hu- 100%. 100%. No, but it just, you know, it's h- how we develop things. Like, "Hey, Mr. DJ," you know? It's just-

Joe Rogan 33:19 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 33:19 ... there's still a disc jockey, like, keep-

Joe Rogan 33:21 The DJ saved my life from a broken heart. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 33:24 Yes. I mean... Oh, God. I mean, it's so funny when you talk about artifice and, you know, the difference between like, like let's say, uh, produced music, uh, versus, um, well, that uses samples and drum machines and things like that, and then, uh, performed music, live music. It's interesting, the era that we're in now, I would say arguably for the last 10, 15 years, moved away from bands, uh, so much. I mean, bands still exist on the... In, in, um, in subculture, for sure. And, you know, and you'll see them like on alternative magazines and there's tons of bands. There's bands still. But the stuff that hits the mainstream that you get, uh, essentially like Nickelodeon, Disney, um, artists that get installed as pop stars, right?

Joe Rogan 34:07 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 34:08 Nothing against them. They're fine people or whatever. But the system is based of... The s- the real stars of this system are producers. It's producer-based music. So the producer's kind of the star. The singer is kind of the front person.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Mm.

Reggie Watts 34:21 So they're the face of it, right? So they represent the music. So in a way, it's kind of like corporate music, you know? It's like their tracks, like some of them can be like really great sounding, but, but then you look at the liner notes and s- 14 songwriters, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:35 Mm.

Reggie Watts 34:35 Whether that's true or not, some people just want to be included 'cause they're in the room or whatever. But you get like credits of like 14 songwriters, seven w- songwriters, five songwriters, um, and then the producer is really the one that makes it all shine. It's not like Fleetwood Mac, you know, produ- sitting down and recording Rumors, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:51 Right, right, right.

Reggie Watts 34:51 Which is a whole different thing when you hear that, you're like, "Oh my god, this is so beautiful and-"

Joe Rogan 34:55 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 34:55 ... uh, constructed, and the musicianship, and the production, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now you get tracks that (laughs) you know, they're cool. They're, I mean, they're fine. They sound good in the club and all of that stuff. But in comparison, it's a different pa- it's a complete paradigm shift.

Joe Rogan 35:10 Mm.

Reggie Watts 35:10 It's interesting.

Joe Rogan 35:11 It's gotta be so difficult to get a bunch of people that are really creative to agree how music comes together. Like if you get five people that are in a band and, you know, you got your guitar player, your lead singer, the drummer, everybody's all together, and they have to figure out how to agree.

Reggie Watts 35:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:29 Right? That's gotta-

Reggie Watts 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 ... be so difficult because you have egos and different visions and different creativity and-

Reggie Watts 35:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:36 ... I think the drum solo should be longer.

Reggie Watts 35:38 (laughs) Well, you know, i- it depends on the situation, right? 'Cause sometimes there's a songwriter, right? There's one songwriter in the band, or there's two songwriters in the band. The band's a five piece. So e- essentially, in a f- healthy functioning group of musicians, whether it's collectively created or whether it's steered by one or two people, they all agree that they're in service of what the music wants to be. So-

Joe Rogan 36:05 Mm.

Reggie Watts 36:05 ... so like when you hear something like, "Oh, that's dope." Play- "Can you play that again?" Like, "Oh yeah. Oh, that's do- hold on, I got an idea," it's, it's more like that. It's i- in a healthy situation, you're just, you're hearing something, you're inspired, and you're adding something, then someone's like, "Okay, great," and like, "Yeah, but we need a, we need a bridge or something." It's like, "Well, I was kind of messing with these chords and..." Like, "Uh, actually, I like that, but can you change that third chord? Oh, like this?" Like, "Oh yeah. That, yeah, yeah, that's it." That's kind of like, in my best healthy experiences, that's how music is made because you're not like personally generating the music. You're listening to something that wants to exist in the world and you're kind of in service of it.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Mm.

Reggie Watts 36:43 Is generally how I like to look at it. Some people will, yeah, their eagle will c- their e- their eagle. (laughs) Their ego will-

Joe Rogan 36:49 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 36:49 ... will come into it. Ra. But, uh, their, their ego will get into it and they start to confuse where they're getting their ideas from because they start to claim full responsibility for it.

Joe Rogan 36:58 Right. Well, think about how many great bands fall apart because of-

Reggie Watts 37:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:01 ... personality battles.

Reggie Watts 37:03 Totally.

Joe Rogan 37:03 You know?

Reggie Watts 37:04 Yeah. Especially when they started in a great place.

Joe Rogan 37:06 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 37:06 You know, when a band starts and they're like, "Oh yeah, they, we were having so much fun." And then something happened, we got more-

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 37:11 ... fame, you know?

Joe Rogan 37:12 Somebody brings their girlfriend into the recording sessions.

Reggie Watts 37:14 Somebody brings their girlfriend to the re- to the recording session, or their m- a manager, you know, gets involved and starts-

Joe Rogan 37:19 Mm. Oh, yeah.

Reggie Watts 37:19 ... dividing people and going, "Hey man, you know, you're the real star." You know, that kind of stuff.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Yes.

Reggie Watts 37:23 Right?

Joe Rogan 37:23 That kind of shit.

Reggie Watts 37:24 Yeah. And then it-

Joe Rogan 37:24 Oh my god, that's so common.

Reggie Watts 37:26 If that happens, like I'm outta there. That's not why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Joe Rogan 37:28 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 37:29 It's like, you know, I had this thing with, uh...... uh, Louie back in the day, Louis C.K. Like, so I had, I did this gig. He wanted me to do his, or he had me be like kind of a music coordinator for Louie, the, the series. And, uh, they said, "Here's the budget," right? Um. "Can you duplicate all of these songs for my series because I, we don't want to pay the licensing fee for the actual track. So we want sound-alikes," right? To these, his tracks that he wanted to be on the thing. So I was like, "Okay, cool." I got together like a sick dude, uh, my friend Matt Kilmer who's an amazing, uh, Frame drummer, drum, drum, uh, player, producer guy. He comes in, finds these really cool group of guys. They, they come together. They're all improvisers. They're super fast. I have a list of music we're supposed to replicate. We just go through it. Matt's guiding them through it, MDing the whole thing. I'm just kinda coordinating. And we get everything done and then, (laughs) and then at the end of it, we're like, "Cool, we got all the songs." They're like, "Yeah, we love it." And I'm like, "Now we just need to, to mix the songs." And then they're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. Uh. Uh, you know, no one said anything about mixing." I was like, "Are you kidding me? Like, you know that mixing is an important part of music, right? You make the music. You record the music. Now it needs to be mixed to sound really great, and then it needs to be mastered." And so, (laughs) so they like didn't get that, or they pretended like they didn't get it. And then they were like saying, "Well, we're gonna have to take that out of your fee," or whatever. And so, uh, (laughs) so I was like, "No. What? Why, why? What's happening?" And then it just kept going back and forth with the producers about like, "Yeah, you know, that's not cool you didn't tell us." And then I was like, "You know what? Fuck it. Keep all my money. Use it for the recording session. I'd suggest you keep Matt 'cause he's the guy who really did all the heavy lifting, and I'm outta here." And I just left, uh, because there's no point. I'm not in this industry, I'm not in the entertainment industry to, uh, because I, I, because it's all about money and all about opportunity.

Joe Rogan 39:25 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 39:25 I just wanna have a good time.

Joe Rogan 39:26 You wanna create.

Reggie Watts 39:27 I wanna create, and I wanna have a good time. And if someone starts to make a big deal about something-

Joe Rogan 39:31 So they just didn't understand the process of making music. And-

Reggie Watts 39:33 That's what they said. But-

Joe Rogan 39:35 They, you, so you think they did and they were being manipulative 'cause they wanted to save money?

Reggie Watts 39:38 I, I don't wanna say either way necessarily, but it was... It felt shady to me. It felt like maybe they didn't know, then they f- then they figured out that that's true, but then they still stuck with their story.

Joe Rogan 39:48 Reggie Watts, you had a Hollywood moment.

Reggie Watts 39:49 I had a Hollywood moment. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:50 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 39:51 It was like, I was like, "Whoa."

Joe Rogan 39:53 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 39:53 "This is that thing that, oh yeah-"

Joe Rogan 39:55 Oh, God.

Reggie Watts 39:55 "... this, this, this happens," or whatever. And you know, and, but you know, the good thing is they kept the dude. They, you know, Matt, Matt Kilmer did the music, uh, MD'd the music for the, for the next, uh, season. I don't know how many more seasons they did, but at least a second season. So that was good. I knew he had a gig. He was really good at it. You know, we, we figured it out. But the, my point is like, if it becomes, if a process becomes too difficult and everyone's like being super tedious about it, and you're talking about making something-

Joe Rogan 40:19 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 40:19 ... like a piece of art, I'm, I'm like, "You know what? Let's just simplify it and like cut the thing that we're having a problem with, or if it's too much trouble, let's just not do it because"-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Right.

Reggie Watts 40:28 ... "it's not fucking worth it." It's like, we're here to have a good time.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 40:31 You know?

Joe Rogan 40:32 Well, also you don't need it, you know? You have a lot of things going on.

Reggie Watts 40:35 Sure.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Like, you can just walk away.

Reggie Watts 40:36 Yeah, true. But I mean, but arguably, hey, just to keep it real, I mean, back in the day when I wasn't really making dough, you know, and I was like just, you know, gig to gig making, barely making rent or whatever, if a project was like too difficult, I'd, I just had to get outta there. It's just not, it's not worth it to me. Like, I would rather just like figure out like, "Ah, shit, how am I gonna borrow money to make rent?" Rather than like continue to like go to a rehearsal space where it feels-

Joe Rogan 40:59 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 41:00 ... shitty.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Isn't that, that's, it's so interesting because like if it all comes together, whether it's with comedy or with anything else, with, with some creative venture, some sort of thing where you're just trying to make something, it comes together and it feels great. But then if you're doing that and then you got some situation, like you got some executive-

Reggie Watts 41:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:20 ... that's stepped in, has decided to put their greasy little fingerprints all over everything and manipulate stuff and tweak things and tell you what you can and can't do and pull their dick out. And you're like, "Oh, no." (laughs)

Reggie Watts 41:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:31 "Now what have we done? We've gotten mixed up with commerce and"-

Reggie Watts 41:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:34 ... "nonsense and non-creative people."

Reggie Watts 41:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:37 It's the number one problem with television shows. When you-

Reggie Watts 41:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:40 ... you have the creative people, the artists, and the, the performers, and then they interact with the executives-

Reggie Watts 41:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:45 ... who are almost never creative and counter often to creativity.

Reggie Watts 41:50 100%. 100%. Well, that's why if you have a producer that's willing to fight for the vision of a piece-

Joe Rogan 41:56 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 41:56 ... and you also set the criteria before you get into it.

Joe Rogan 41:59 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 41:59 That's the important thing. It's like-

Joe Rogan 42:00 But once you get going, man, people reveal their true selves.

Reggie Watts 42:03 That, that's-

Joe Rogan 42:04 That's, that's the problem.

Reggie Watts 42:04 Yeah, that's true. And even, but even in that situation it's like... I mean, I've been really lucky. I've, I've had maybe two experience, Hollywood experiences like the one I subs- uh, uh, I described. But like, um, most of the time it's like if you're a judge of character and, you know, it feels good when you come sit down in the meeting and they're talking a good game and, you know, talk to other people who've worked with them and they're like, "They're really great." You can avoid all that shit.

Joe Rogan 42:26 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 42:27 You know? Or if you work with someone like, uh, Netflix who's just like, "Uh, are you gonna make it?" "Yeah." "Okay, well, we'll see you when it's made."

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 42:35 That's about it. You know?

Joe Rogan 42:36 That's what they do with standup specials.

Reggie Watts 42:37 That's what they did with my special-

Joe Rogan 42:38 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 42:38 ... which was super weird.

Joe Rogan 42:39 It's amazing.

Reggie Watts 42:40 And they were like, "Okay, cool."

Joe Rogan 42:42 "Great job." (laughs)

Reggie Watts 42:43 I was like, that's how you do it. That's how you set the precedent.

Joe Rogan 42:45 Yes.

Reggie Watts 42:46 You just, you just, you just like allow the artist who... If you're, if you have a meeting with the artist and they have a very clear vision, and they've laid it out, and they've got a really great team around them, then just let them do the thing.

Joe Rogan 42:56 Yes. Yeah, they've, they're, they've been great with that. Netflix is probably the best ever at just letting you do a special.

Reggie Watts 43:02 Yeah, 100%. 100%, which-

Joe Rogan 43:04 The... I mean, I had a conversation-

Reggie Watts 43:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:05 ... once before I did a Comedy Central special. And, uh, we went over the phone. Uh, we had a phone call, and they said, "Okay, we have a transcript of your act, and we'd like to talk to you about various bits." And they're like, "Okay. This we've gotta change." I'm like, "What do you mean we gotta change?" And they go, "Well, it would be better if you didn't say it like that." I go, "Stop. We're done."

Reggie Watts 43:26 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 43:27 Like the, the phone call was like 10 minutes long. It was supposed to be an hour conversation. I was like, "We can't do this."

Reggie Watts 43:32 No.

Joe Rogan 43:32 I go, "Thank you, thank you, but I'm not gonna do it." And they're like, "What?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm not doing it."

Reggie Watts 43:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:37 ... it's the, we're not... We can't do this. Like, I can't do this special. There's no, uh, there's no way I, I'm gonna go over the transcript on the phone with you-

Reggie Watts 43:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... of my act, because first of all, I'm not even gonna say it the way it's on the... The transcript was one set at The Comedy Store-

Reggie Watts 43:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:52 ... that we recorded and then someone transcribed.

Reggie Watts 43:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:56 Like, I might not do it that way in front of a live audience, 'cause I'm kinda free-flowing. I fuck around, I mix things up. I, I do, I'll do this bit third instead of first and that bit fifth, and they'll tie together in a different way, 'cause I feel it in the moment.

Reggie Watts 44:12 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's just not, uh, there's no way I could do that. You know, the, well, first of all, I don't have a transcript.

Joe Rogan 44:19 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 44:19 So that's, that, that's, (laughs) that gives me a little bit of an edge.

Joe Rogan 44:22 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 44:22 They just have to trust that I'm... I mean, the first time I did the... Was it The Tonight Show? Or no, The Fallon Show. Well, before he had The Tonight Show, was it just The Jimmy Fallon Show?

Joe Rogan 44:30 What was it?

Reggie Watts 44:30 I think it was just The Jimmy Fallon Show.

Joe Rogan 44:31 He had a show before The Tonight Show?

Reggie Watts 44:33 I, yeah. It was just the... I think it was just Jimmy Fallon. Was it-

Joe Rogan 44:37 Was it, like, late Late Night or something?

Reggie Watts 44:38 Yeah, it was a, it was a late night show. I, I believe, I believe-

Joe Rogan 44:40 Like, he had the Conan O'Brien spot or something?

Reggie Watts 44:42 Is that correct? Uh, anyways... What... (sighs) Maybe it was the... I'm, I'm sorry. I'm confused.

Joe Rogan 44:47 You thinking of Carson Daly?

Reggie Watts 44:48 No, no, no. (laughs) No. Definitely not Carson Daly. It was, uh, it was when Fallon... He, well, I guess he's still in New York. But he was in New York, he was doing the show. The Roots were the band. And my friend Todd was working as a writer there, and they suggested I do a set there to be, to do a live comedy set. And, uh, the producers were, I remember the producers calling me. We had a phone meeting or whatever with my manager and stuff. And they were just like, um, "Yeah, do you have any examples of what you're gonna do?" And I'm like, "No." Like, um, "Do you have a transcript?" I'm like, "No." And they're like, "Well, do you... Are you... Uh, what? Oh, well, we'll get back to you." And then they, they let me do it. And I remember, like, the producer paging the curtain for me before I was going out, and he's like, "You're not gonna do anything, like, embarrassing-

Joe Rogan 45:30 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 45:30 ... to, to us." And I'm like, "No, man. No, it's fine." You know, whatever. And they let me go out, and I knew that they were, like, so nervous about it, 'cause they didn't have any, you know, there was nothing to verify what, what I was gonna do. And then I did my set, and it was totally fine, right? But, um, the thing is, like, I've built in the ability for people that you're either gonna, like, want me or not.

Joe Rogan 45:49 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 45:49 It's not like-

Joe Rogan 45:50 Right, you-

Reggie Watts 45:50 ... "Can you modify or..."

Joe Rogan 45:52 You figure your way through the net.

Reggie Watts 45:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:54 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 45:54 I mean, I mean if they say, like, "You shouldn't swear," I'll do that. That's easy.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 45:58 That's, uh, super easy. I don't swear a lot. And when I do swear, it's just to be absurd.

Joe Rogan 46:02 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 46:03 But, uh, but, you know, it's funny. It reminds me of, uh, you were talking about, like, kind of people coming in and ruining ideas or whatever. It's like, my whole thing with, like, uh, you know, I started this, a little bit of a plug, but I started my own app called Watts App. Um, and, uh... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:17 What is it?

Reggie Watts 46:20 It's a, it's like a... Think of it as, like, my own, um, uh, social media, uh, account, if you will. And so it's just like, essentially like a glorified website, right? But it's an app. You go on there. All my videos are on there, or videos that I want to be on there. My, I have this stupid web series called Drone, Droneversations, which is me interviewing people, but it's all shot on drones. And the drone-

Joe Rogan 46:44 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 46:44 The drone, the drones are super loud and you can barely hear the conversation.

Joe Rogan 46:49 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 46:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:50 How long did you develop this app for?

Reggie Watts 46:52 Uh, we developed it for, like... So my friend, uh, Oliver Thomas Klein, who's a genius, um, it probably took maybe like a, maybe a year to build-

Joe Rogan 47:01 'Cause it's-

Reggie Watts 47:01 ... or less.

Joe Rogan 47:02 It's a conversation, getting an app going. I-

Reggie Watts 47:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:06 ... uh, I was looking to get in an app going a few years back.

Reggie Watts 47:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:08 And I met with some people and the numbers they were throwing around-

Reggie Watts 47:11 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... I was like, "Wait, how much?"

Reggie Watts 47:13 Oh, yeah. I remember being quoted, like, close to 200 grand.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Oh, I was double that, more.

Reggie Watts 47:17 Really?

Joe Rogan 47:18 Yeah, it was like half a million bucks.

Reggie Watts 47:19 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:20 And that wasn't even sure. They weren't even sure we could-

Reggie Watts 47:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:22 ... get it done with that. I was like-

Reggie Watts 47:24 Like, "Here's the-"

Joe Rogan 47:24 It's like if I was building a house.

Reggie Watts 47:25 ... "Here's the initial estimate." Yeah. I mean, I was... You know, I worked with some really great people. My friend, Sasha, who's a, a brilliant, uh, creative, uh, advertising person. She now has her own company, but, uh, she sells this product called Period Pants, which is like period pants for, for women, um-

Joe Rogan 47:40 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 47:40 ... with like this no bullshit kind of thing. Like, like, whatever, "Women's hygiene can be simplified. We have a solution for it." And, and-

Joe Rogan 47:47 What is the solution?

Reggie Watts 47:48 ... really... It's just called Period Pants. They're essentially-

Joe Rogan 47:50 But what do they, what do they do?

Reggie Watts 47:51 ... they're, they're underwear that have an absorbent material in it. It's not a new concept.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Built into the pants?

Reggie Watts 47:55 Built into the pants. So the pant itself is the absorbent thing.

Joe Rogan 47:58 So you got a padding in the pants.

Reggie Watts 48:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:00 And do you Velcro it out and throw it in the wash?

Reggie Watts 48:02 N- No. Well, no. You wash the whole thing, just like underpants.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Oh.

Reggie Watts 48:05 So essentially, it's just like special underpants that have an absorb, uh, absorption layer to it.

Joe Rogan 48:09 Okay.

Reggie Watts 48:09 Which is fucking brilliant. And her aver- her, her campaign is brilliant. She did Impossible, the first Impossible Burger campaign. Um, Impossible, like the whole, the whole thing, like the ulf, the image of it and how it was presented, that was all Sasha Markow.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 48:23 But, um, she su- she linked me to some people, some des- designers who are really amazing people. And I sat down, designed with them, and like thought about all the stuff, and they're, "Cool, let me find a, you know, development team. Get back to you." And the budget was like... You know, I was like, "I was thinking about like 30 grand, 35 grand." And they're like, "How about 190?" And I'm like, "I don't, I don't-"

Joe Rogan 48:44 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 48:45 "... have that money." That's like a lot of money.

Joe Rogan 48:47 That's so much money. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 48:48 So much money. And then, uh, and then Sasha was like, "No, no, no, no. There's gotta be someone else." And then she found a producer who then linked me to Thomas Oliver Klein, uh, or Oliver Thomas Klein, and, um... (laughs) And, uh, he gets on the, the, the, uh, video call with us. And I'm like, "This is what I wanna do. Uh, 30, 30, 35 grand." And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I can do that."

Joe Rogan 49:10 Really?

Reggie Watts 49:10 And I was like, "For real?" And he was like, "Yeah." And he did it. 35 grand, I had my app. Now, we've made a, you know, additions to it that have cost more, you know, to, to implement. But he was completely accurate. It was one dude, and my app was made.

Joe Rogan 49:23 I have a friend who has an app for meditation. He built this app and then had to redesign the entire thing and start all over again with a new team.

Reggie Watts 49:32 Yeah. That happens. Yeah, I mean, with mine, it's great because we thought about modularity and, and expansion from the beginning.

Joe Rogan 49:39 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 49:39 And he's a super smart dude. He's into crypto and all that stuff even before crypto was crypto.

Joe Rogan 49:44 Is he into Dogecoin?

Reggie Watts 49:45 Dogecoin.

Joe Rogan 49:46 How do you say it?

Reggie Watts 49:46 Doge.

Joe Rogan 49:47 Does anybody really know how to say it? Doggycoin?

Reggie Watts 49:49 It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 49:50 Is that it?

Reggie Watts 49:51 ... Doge.

Joe Rogan 49:51 Doge?

Reggie Watts 49:51 Yeah, it's Dogecoin. Yeah, Doge.

Joe Rogan 49:53 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 49:53 Doge. But, you know, and I was just like, "You know, Instagram's great."... but it's, you're at the whim of their aesthetics. You know, plus you're being tracked, and it's all a bit, it's really just a shopping-

Joe Rogan 50:03 And they can just decide to demonetize you, or rather deplatform you-

Reggie Watts 50:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:07 ... or just shadow ban you or-

Reggie Watts 50:10 Yeah. Algor-

Joe Rogan 50:11 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 50:11 ... algorithmize you or whatever.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 50:14 You know?

Joe Rogan 50:14 Y- and if you develop an application and that application is 100% you-

Reggie Watts 50:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:20 ... then you're free.

Reggie Watts 50:21 Yes, that's totally it, and that's, that's why I did it, and I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna put Drumversations up there, you know? And Drumversations, they had Thundercat as a guest.

Joe Rogan 50:28 Let me see Drumversations.

Reggie Watts 50:29 Yeah, they're on-

Joe Rogan 50:29 Do we, are there any of them online? Can we watch?

Reggie Watts 50:31 Uh, yes.

Joe Rogan 50:32 Or do we have to do the app?

Reggie Watts 50:33 Well, I, no, I think there might be some online. Yeah, there's, there's Jack White, um, Feist, um, Thundercat, uh-

Joe Rogan 50:42 Go to Thundercat.

Reggie Watts 50:43 Yeah, Thundercat. Fred Armisen, um-

Joe Rogan 50:45 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 50:45 ... and, uh, yeah. And it's just, it's, it's a stupid idea, but I wanted to do it for so long, and I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna become my own production company and just, I'm gonna stop pitching." I mean, I'll keep pitching but like I'm gonna s- if no one's into an idea, I'm just gonna make it, so.

Joe Rogan 50:58 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 50:59 So this was one of the first. Put it on the app, and then I put pictures on there. I have like, you know, I can send messages to fans. So I'll be like, "Hey, you look cute today."

Joe Rogan 51:06 Ah, that's cool.

Reggie Watts 51:06 Or as a notification or whatever.

Joe Rogan 51:08 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 51:08 And, uh, and it doesn't cost anything. There's no monetization. I have a store, so that's a hard thing, right? I go to a store, there's a price, I pay that price. That, there's no hidden costs, everything is transparent.

Joe Rogan 51:19 Oh, that's really dope.

Reggie Watts 51:20 So, and-

Joe Rogan 51:21 That's such a Reggie Watts thing to do.

Reggie Watts 51:23 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 51:24 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 51:24 You have no idea. I was like so stoked. And then I'm gonna do the first, uh, well, I don't know if it's the first, but volumetric live stream 'cause I have live streaming on it too.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Mm.

Narrator 51:32 It's the only one I can find for some reason, but-

Joe Rogan 51:35 Okay.

Reggie Watts 51:35 Oh, yeah, this is me and Jojo.

Joe Rogan 51:36 Let me hear this.

Reggie Watts 51:37 Swimming for like half an hour super hard, and I was like-

Joe Rogan 51:40 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 51:40 ... if I had a pool, I would just be swimming all the time and that'd be a great way to burn calories.

Joe Rogan 51:44 You have a Chinese rice farmer's hat on.

Reggie Watts 51:46 So easy- I do. (laughs) ... because no one would notice, you're just fucking around.

51:49 You can do it forever. People, I mean-

51:51 Yeah.

51:51 ... old people like to do it.

51:53 Yeah.

51:53 I mean, babies could do it.

Joe Rogan 51:53 And you're, and she's, you're both wearing masks-

Reggie Watts 51:55 Yeah.

51:56 Like someone should make a lab album with us about-

Joe Rogan 51:56 And you're outside.

Reggie Watts 51:57 Especially, well, this was the early days.

51:59 Like beating myself up for cheating on my ex-boyfriend.

Joe Rogan 52:00 Oh, but now she gave up on the mask. Now it's a chin strap.

Reggie Watts 52:03 Oh.

52:03 I released that energy.

52:04 Yep. Oh, really?

52:04 Yeah.

52:05 That's what that shit's about?

52:06 Yeah.

52:06 Do you tend to write about your life experiences? Like that's the writing?

52:09 Yeah, and I'm sick of myself.

Joe Rogan 52:10 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 52:11 Okay. (laughs) It's so stupid.

Joe Rogan 52:12 It's so ridiculous. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 52:13 And it's so dumb. That's the dumbest shit ever.

Joe Rogan 52:15 It's like you're being attacked by bees, but it's- (laughs)

Reggie Watts 52:17 (laughs) Yeah, it's totally, it's just constant. Um, and, uh, yeah there's some great ... the, the Fred Armisen one's great because it's just-

Joe Rogan 52:22 Where'd you film this?

Reggie Watts 52:23 This is at that, oh, I forget, Elysian? Um, it's on the edge of Elysian in that sculpt, uh, that sculpture, this-

Joe Rogan 52:29 Oh, where is that?

Reggie Watts 52:29 ... right there is, uh, it's, it's on the edge of Elysian and it's got this beautiful, um, (smacks lips) shot of downtown. And I was super into her single, and so I wanted to like have the show turn into a music video-

Joe Rogan 52:42 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 52:43 ... uh, just suddenly out of nowhere, and it, and it totally turns into that, the music video. And, uh, it's i- it's just a fun idea to do and I wanted a platform that I can do this on an-, and like, you know, and so I'm doing this live stream thing, um, with this crew called, uh, Fifth Planet, and they do volumetric capture which is basically a bunch of, uh, Microsoft Azure Kinect cameras in a circle around you, and in real time you can actually manipulate the camera, like while I'm doing a video, you can actually manipulate the raw feed. And, um, so it'll look ... I wish there was a way to show you, but uh, there, there's a, it looks like a, (smacks lips) i- i- it looks like science fiction, like a hologram. But you're just kind of-

Joe Rogan 53:24 Oh.

Reggie Watts 53:24 ... doing ... but I'm doing a bunch of experiments and so I'm gonna do three of those, three of those as a live stream, some comedy or whatever, in a studio, so you can watch on, on Watts- WhatsApp. And then later, that will become a full compressed music video with a beautiful sound and everything, and that will be put on a looking glass portrait holographic display.

Joe Rogan 53:47 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 53:47 So, so I'm now producing content for the looking glass holographic display which doesn't require glasses, you're just looking at this, this frame and there are just holograms inside of it. It looks like a box-

Joe Rogan 53:59 Wow.

Reggie Watts 53:59 ... with things happening inside of it you don't need glasses for. And so, um, and they're planning on, you know, scaling so you, eventually imagine you're gonna have a 50-inch holographic display using a technology that just b- it projects like 45 different angles simultaneously and your brain puts it together as three-dimensional.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Oh, wow.

Reggie Watts 54:18 So it's, it's an incredible technology and I've known those guys way back since 2010 when they just had like a box with a bunch of LEDs inside of it.

Joe Rogan 54:25 Whatever happened to Magic Leap?

Reggie Watts 54:28 I-

Joe Rogan 54:28 Do you remember those sort of misleading-

Reggie Watts 54:31 They kind of disappeared, didn't they?

Joe Rogan 54:31 ... commercials? They showed you like a ballerina dancing on a man's hand.

Reggie Watts 54:36 Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:36 Or on a girl's bed is what it was, yeah.

Reggie Watts 54:38 Yeah, the AR shit, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:39 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 54:40 Well, it's like, you know, the great AR future, you know, there was like this huge promise of like, oh, you'll b- be able to put on a pair of glasses and blah, blah, blah.

Joe Rogan 54:46 Right.

Reggie Watts 54:46 And, and, and that's still being worked on and Apple will release something like that in the future, but, you know, w- it's still pretty limited. But what's exciting about like the looking glass technology is like a bunch of friends can walk into a room, if that was your monitor they would see it just happening immediately.

Joe Rogan 55:02 Mm.

Reggie Watts 55:02 And you don't need any special gear, it's just happening, and it looks fucking fantastic.

Joe Rogan 55:06 Mm.

Reggie Watts 55:06 So I wanna produce, I'm gonna produce, I'm gonna do this a- uh, a scene with actors (laughs) . It's gonna be a really dumb scene with actors, but because all the camera angles are happening simultaneously, I'm gonna take the feed, give it to a traditional editor, and they're going to rotate, push in, create the, you know, the insert shot of someone setting down a cup, the two shot, the master shot, the singles just from the one performance.

Joe Rogan 55:29 Oh, wow.

Reggie Watts 55:31 So that's my like-

Joe Rogan 55:32 So all the information's there.

Reggie Watts 55:34 Exactly, yes. Now the resolution might be kinda crappy when you push in, you know, to something-

Joe Rogan 55:39 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 55:39 ... that's, even though it's 4K 60 frames you're like, someone's setting down a glass ... It might look artifacty and stupid but I don't really care.

Joe Rogan 55:45 Mm.

Reggie Watts 55:45 It's about like can we create a traditional 2D linear edit with volumetric capture which is the holy grail of filmmaking in the future. That'll be one of the things we'll use. But, so I'm excited about that, so I'm gonna run that s- that experiment, that si- same live session as well.

Joe Rogan 56:01 Have you fucked around at all with VR movies?

Reggie Watts 56:04 Yes, I made a, I made, uh, something called Waves with my friend Ben- uh, Benjamin Dickinson, um, w- that had, um, Natalie, uh, from, uh, uh, Game of Thrones, uh, in it. But yeah, it was just like a, you put on the VR headset and it's a movie-

Joe Rogan 56:18 Who's-

Reggie Watts 56:18 ... it's not interactive.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Who's Natalie from the Game of Thrones? Which one is she?

Reggie Watts 56:21 I feel terrible that I'm, and she's gonna kill me. Um, um, y- you know her. Uh-

Joe Rogan 56:25 Cersei? Oh, there you go. There she is.

Reggie Watts 56:28 Yeah, there she is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:31 ... Reggie Watts is no stranger to, well, uh, to pushing the boundaries of both technology and humor, and he just found a way to do both at once.

Reggie Watts 56:39 Yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 56:40 Oh, wow.

Reggie Watts 56:41 (waves crashing) (surfer music)

Joe Rogan 56:44 Oh, wow.

Reggie Watts 56:44 So this is all in VR.

Joe Rogan 56:46 Dude. That's crazy.

Reggie Watts 56:47 And it's a story, it's not interactive. That's why it's... When you say, "Movie," that's what it was.

Joe Rogan 56:51 Wow.

Reggie Watts 56:52 Look at you. You've taken the first step in-

Joe Rogan 56:54 And you did all this with a green screen like this?

Reggie Watts 56:56 Yeah.

56:57 What is real? What is a matrix?

Joe Rogan 56:58 Wow.

Reggie Watts 56:59 And she was so cool. She was doing Game of Thrones, and she had no... She didn't have to do it (laughs) at all. And she was like, "Sure, let's, let's go for it."

Joe Rogan 57:07 Wow.

Reggie Watts 57:08 Yeah. And I've never even seen this. That's crazy. Yeah, so... And this was all my design, like, you know, the whole... I mean, not the design-design, but the i- the concepts were there.

Joe Rogan 57:17 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 57:17 The designer obviously made it happen, but, um... So that was my first thing. Me and Ben did that. And-

Joe Rogan 57:23 When did y- how long ago was this?

Reggie Watts 57:24 That's a long time ago. It was like, uh... I wanna say 2000... (smacks lips)

Joe Rogan 57:30 17?

Reggie Watts 57:30 Yeah. (laughs) Let me say 2017. No, I think it was earlier than 2017. Well, no, actually it was 2017. 2017. And since then, I've done, like, social VR on Altspace. I've done Sansar.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Mm.

Reggie Watts 57:41 Um, you know, uh, and right now... Oh, and then there's this company called 3D Live that I just saw an NFT installation on the 59th floor of the US Bank Tower just this last weekend. You wore 3D glasses, floor to ceiling display, I, I don't know, 60 feet across and a wraparound. 3D glasses, the NFTs are floating holographically in, in the center of the room.

Joe Rogan 58:04 Jesus.

Reggie Watts 58:05 There was, like, rings that appear from the monitor, and they just kind of ring out and the (laughs) rings are floating in front of you and you can, like, kind of put your hands in it and it's rotating around. It was insane, and I couldn't believe it. And so I'm like, "Well, now I need to do a performance with that." And now I'm gonna do a performance with... Because the guy who, who did it, his name's Yung Orbseer. He was the guy showing his NFTs in the gallery. He used to work... Or he... I guess he still works for 3D Live, but he used to be behind the scenes. Now he's, like, made his own installation, these NFTs. Mind-blowing.

Joe Rogan 58:35 Hol- hold... Please.

Reggie Watts 58:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:36 Explain NFTs to people-

Reggie Watts 58:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:38 ... that don't know what you're talking about, because I don't know what you're talking about.

Reggie Watts 58:40 It's great.

Joe Rogan 58:41 I do, but I don't.

Reggie Watts 58:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:41 I know it's a non-fungible token.

Reggie Watts 58:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:43 I'm not exactly sure what that means.

Reggie Watts 58:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's just not very fungible. You know-

Joe Rogan 58:48 Oh. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 58:48 ... tokens are super fungible.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Got it.

Reggie Watts 58:49 These aren't very fungible. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:50 I don't even know if I could... If I, if I was on Jeopardy!

Reggie Watts 58:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:54 What is fungible?

Reggie Watts 58:55 Yeah, totally. Fungible. Uh, uh, uh, fungible.

Joe Rogan 58:57 I'm not sure what that means.

Reggie Watts 58:57 Uh, fungible. I don't even know fungible.

Joe Rogan 58:58 What does fungible mean? Okay, let's Go- let's Google it. I think fuckable, I think.

Reggie Watts 59:01 Fungible.

59:01 Duplicatable. Yeah, like duplicatable, maybe something.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Let's Google it.

Reggie Watts 59:06 Yeah, Goo- Google it.

Joe Rogan 59:07 What is the... (laughs)

Reggie Watts 59:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:08 What is the...

Reggie Watts 59:09 Juul.

Joe Rogan 59:09 Or go to DuckDuckGo so they can give you the truth.

Reggie Watts 59:11 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Give me the truth. Uh, fungible is the same.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Okay, here it goes.

Reggie Watts 59:15 It's like economic term.

Joe Rogan 59:16 Oh. "Of goods-"

Reggie Watts 59:18 Oh.

Joe Rogan 59:18 "... connected for, without an individual specimen being specified, able to replace or be replaced by another identical item, mutually interchangeable. It is by no means the world's only fungible commodity." Okay, I know it-

Reggie Watts 59:30 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:30 ... I understand it even less now.

Reggie Watts 59:32 Yeah.

59:32 (laughs)

59:32 I- I have heard of fungible, like, done... Used in economics.

59:34 (laughs)

59:35 But yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:35 So, but you can't replicate...

Reggie Watts 59:37 So yeah, non-fungible. So basically it's like I have... I've made a little video of me or... Yeah, I've made a video of me, a 30-second video of me, like, running around, uh, you know, a park or something like that. If I wanna make that non-fungible, then I mint it. And by minting, um, you use a minting service like Foundation or Sora. There's, I mean, there's many others. And, um, you get a crypto wallet (laughs) and, uh, you get the crypto wallet set up, you put money in it, it's converted into the crypto of your choice. So let's say ETH, which is very popular. Ethereum.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 What?

Reggie Watts 1:00:10 Ethereum is a-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 That's a very popular crypto?

Reggie Watts 1:00:12 ... is a token. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Do you know about that?

Reggie Watts 1:00:13 Mm-mm.

1:00:13 Yeah. ETH.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Fucking nerds. Both of you.

Reggie Watts 1:00:16 E-T-H-

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 1:00:16 (laughs)

1:00:16 Actually it's, uh... Uh, but yeah, so, so these are some-

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 So these are NFTs?

Reggie Watts 1:00:21 ... NFTs that we created. So, so see that one on the, the very top left?

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 Yeah.

Reggie Watts 1:00:25 That's, that's, um, a hol- that's the Looking Glass holographic display.

Joe Rogan 1:00:28 Oh, wow.

Reggie Watts 1:00:29 And, um... And so that device, we made a, an NFT, me and my friend Panther Modern, who... His name is Brady Keene. Check out his music. It's fucking disgusting. But, uh... So he made the 3D gra- motion graphics and the, the TVs and design, all of that stuff with the wires. We shot a bunch of video of me doing the thing. He put- inserted them on the TV screens. And then we, um, formatted it. It's on a loop. It's got music with it. And, uh, that is then put into this device. And so I'm trying to push this phrase called phygital. Right? Meaning the convergence of physical and digital media.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 1:01:03 So that's like a perfect representation because it's... The NFT is sold with the device. So when you bid on it and, you know, you win it or whatever, that device is sent to you. There's laser etching on the back that says the name of the piece, who made it and so forth.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 1:01:18 But technically it's that unit with the hologram. So it's the world's first holographic NFT, which was bought by, uh, Lee... What's his name? Charlie Lee? Charlie Lee who created Litecoin, another cryptocurrency.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 1:01:34 He bought it for almost nothing. And, uh, so he now has the physical unit that has the hologram in it. And you could ostensibly just put it on a shelf and call it good, or you can use the display to upload more holographic stuff if you want to. So that was the first holographic NFT. Those other videos that you saw cycling were just standard, "Here's a video. We've made it in NFT."

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 But then someone can't replicate that video?

Reggie Watts 1:01:56 Exactly. They hold the license to it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Right. But if you just replicate it and have it on your laptop, how is someone gonna stop you?

Reggie Watts 1:02:02 I mean, I guess if you're trying to make money from it, then-

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 Right, but you wouldn't...

Reggie Watts 1:02:06 Then you wouldn't... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 Right.

Reggie Watts 1:02:06 Or something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 You wouldn't be able to make money off of it.

Reggie Watts 1:02:08 You wouldn't be able to make money off of it. I mean, technically you could screenshot it, you could screen capture it, you know, if it's a video.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 Mm-hmm.

Reggie Watts 1:02:14 Um, in this case it's a hologram, so you would have to just... You'd have to have a Looking Glass device, and then you'd have to get the file in order to see it, which it is available.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 But it's stunning when you hear guys like Beeple-

Reggie Watts 1:02:24 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 Like, Beeple sold an NFT for, what, 59?

Reggie Watts 1:02:27 69.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 $69 million?

Reggie Watts 1:02:29 Yeah.

1:02:29 He's got a little more with his package though. You get a hair sample.

1:02:32 Oh yeah.

1:02:32 And-

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 You get his own hair? Is that his pubes?

Reggie Watts 1:02:34 It could be.

1:02:35 I hope so.

1:02:35 I don't know if he's...

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:02:36 It's got very long, luscious pubes.

Narrator 1:02:39 So-

Reggie Watts 1:02:39 So, like, he sends a whole package when you get his NFT.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 Okay. So you get an image?

Reggie Watts 1:02:43 This is, I think this is, like, an iPad with the image on it. The one that sold for a bunch, I believe was all of them together.

Narrator 1:02:50 Yeah, all of them. Yup.

Reggie Watts 1:02:50 In one video, sort of, so not just one.

Narrator 1:02:51 All of the art for a year. Yeah.

Reggie Watts 1:02:52 It's like 5,000 pieces.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:02:54 Yeah. Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 And someone bought it for $69 million in what? Bitcoin, or what?

Reggie Watts 1:02:59 Hmm.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:00 Yeah, I think ETH. They have to-

Reggie Watts 1:03:02 Probably ETH, yeah.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:02 They have to buy the auction is in ETH, so Christie's, you know, it's like it was auctioned by Christie's. It was like, ETH was... I think it was in ETH.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 And then how would you go about being actually rich with this? Uh, how does Beeple go from this to being a baller?

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:15 Oh, well, I mean... Well, you know, they bid, whoever bids, it, you know, just like a regular auction, and then they bid using crypto, and then the crypto's transferred before they transfer the file to the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 So the $69 million in ETH-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 ... he could actually put into his account?

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:29 Yes, you can just convert it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 And now he has 69 actual million dollars.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:31 Yeah, you just convert it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 And he can get a Ferrari.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:34 Yeah, you could, you could get one Ferrari for $69 million. (laughs)

Reggie Watts 1:03:36 The thing with ETH, though-

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 (laughs)

Reggie Watts 1:03:37 ... with some of these contracts, like, I don't know specifically which one it is, I heard him mention this, he has a, uh, it's built into the contract so if the person who bought it for $69 million sells it for $100 million, 10% of that goes back to his wallet. So he'll-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:52 Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Reggie Watts 1:03:52 ... earn $10 million from that sale.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Oh, my God.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:03:54 Yeah, you set the resale. So like on ours we did 15%, which is the average.

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Are you aware of the controversy surrounding the male Mona Lisa? Do you know the story about this?

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:04:03 The male Elisa? No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 No. Yeah, it's, um... There's the most expensive painting ever sold. It was sold for $400 million to, uh, the B- Bin Salam... What is his, excuse me, what is his name?

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:04:17 Salamon?

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 Mohammed Bin Salam, the... Am I saying his name right? The head of Saudi Arabia?

Reggie Watts 1:04:22 MBS.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 MBS.

Reggie Watts 1:04:24 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 What is his actual name, though? I'm sorry.

Reggie Watts 1:04:26 I think you were close.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 I fucked it up.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:04:28 It's probably Brian Saunders.

Reggie Watts 1:04:30 Mohammed bin Salamon.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 No, close.

Reggie Watts 1:04:32 Salman.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:04:33 Salman.

Reggie Watts 1:04:33 Salman.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Yes, Salman.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:04:34 Okay, the MBS, the head of Saudi Arabia bought it for $450 million. This is it. And the crazy thing is someone bought it at one point in time in the past, I want to say, for $1,500 and they didn't realize that it may or may not be, 'cause this is where it gets controversial, may or may not be the work of Leonardo da Vinci. Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 So it was restored. So g- do the history of this, the controversy and the history of it.

Reggie Watts 1:05:04 There's a documentary about it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 Yeah, there's a cr- there's a crazy history to it, um, where someone bought it for an extremely low amount and then a Russian oligarch bought it for over $100 million. See, $1,175 at an attic sale in New Orleans for a dirty painting that he hadn't even seen. After a painstaking restoration I think took a decade, some began whispering that it might be by the master himself. So an art dealer in 2005 paid $1,175 for it. So 16 years ago, someone paid $1,175 for the most expensive painting ever sold.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:05:44 (exhales) .

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 So then, this guy... Go down. Scroll down.

Reggie Watts 1:05:47 Oh, I can't get... This article is up.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Oh, it's one of them pay... It's The Economist.

Reggie Watts 1:05:52 Oh, it's one of them. I've got to find that whole thing.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 Um, there's a bunch of other articles that are free that you could read about it, but it's, uh, it's a crazy story. So this, this person, I believe, started working on it in 2005, started the restoration. And then by the time, I think it was around 2015, they started realizing, like, "Holy shit." 'Cause I guess sometimes in the past, someone would take a great painting and they would paint over it-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:16 Yes, I've heard of this.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 ... which is crazy.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:19 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 And so then there's this insanely painstaking restoration-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:24 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 ... project where you're removing layer upon layer upon layer. What?

Reggie Watts 1:06:30 $60 this was sold for in 1958.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 $60, so it gets even crazier.

Reggie Watts 1:06:35 Yeah. This was an article from 2017 where it was on auction for even less than it was just sold for.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 Yeah, so it was on auction-

Reggie Watts 1:06:41 That's a good thing.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 ... for $100 million then, and that's when it was bought by the Russian oligarch-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:46 S-

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 ... before MBS bought it.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:47 So is the controversy that the person who originally bought it should get a kickback-

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 No.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:51 ... because they don't know the value? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 No, here's the controversy. The controversy is, it may not be by Leonardo da Vinci at all.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:06:58 I see.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 And, or it might be partly by da Vinci, and so-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:07:02 I see.

Joe Rogan 1:07:02 ... Google this, th- there's a scan of the image, and I don't understand the technology involved in the scan, but the scan apparently revealed that there's more than one era of painting, or there's more than one application of painting-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:07:16 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 ... meaning that more than one person worked on it at more than one time.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:07:21 Like an exquisite corpse.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 Hidden drawings.

Reggie Watts 1:07:23 Oh, this is the original Mona Lisa, so this might not be it.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 No, no, this doesn't reveal it. This is not it. It's, it's about... There was a digital scan of that painting. What is it called again?

Reggie Watts 1:07:32 It said male Mona Lisa. I don't know, that's why-

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 There's another name for it.

Reggie Watts 1:07:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 There's a, there's a name for that painting. I forget what it is, but-

Reggie Watts 1:07:37 Salvator Muna-

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 Mundi.

Reggie Watts 1:07:39 Mundi, yeah.

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:07:39 Yeah, Salvator Mundi.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 So when they did the scan, there's something about the hands and the way the paint is done on that in relation to the rest of it, that it's like... You know, they're talking about, like, fucking microns. They're, they're measuring depth-

Guest (third voice in NFT segment) 1:07:55 Depth.

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 ... and layers and age and all sorts of different shit, and they're