Joe Rogan Experience #1676 - Jesse Griffiths

1. 0:00 – 5:16

   Rinella connections, Dai Due mission, and the “chef as craftsman” mindset

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JGJesse Griffiths0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) What's up, Jesse? How are you, man?

   4. JGJesse Griffiths0:16

      Doing really well. I'm good.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      You are one of the many people that are cool as fuck that I've met because of Steve Rinella.

   6. JGJesse Griffiths0:21

      Oh. Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      I need that, give that guy like a, uh, w- like a gift just for introducing me to cool people. Like I met, like at least a dozen really cool people because of Steve Rinella.

   8. JGJesse Griffiths0:31

      Yeah. Uh, I, I can believe that. Um, he is a, he's a powerful person. And, uh, I'm, I'm honored to be included in that group. I really am. Um, he's, he's done a lot for us. Um, he's, his, his ability to like get out there and, and support people and his, his knowledge of his reach, um, and, and, and just wanting to get out there and be, uh, like promote people-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:54

      Yeah.

   10. JGJesse Griffiths0:54

       ... it's, it's very, very kind.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       He is.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths0:56

       He's a very generous person.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       He is. And it's, uh, he's, he's so smart and he's so important to that, to that world, the world of wild foods, you know? And, um, I heard you on the podcast, on his podcast, a few years back when, uh, you were talking, uh, you guys were talking about, uh, cooking and, and Dai Due, your restaurant here in Austin, and you could tell right away that what you're doing is very much a, like a passion project. Like you're, you're a guy like when you talk about food and you talk about cooking, when you talk about like the ingredients that you use, and it's like I fucking love when someone's really into what they do.

   14. JGJesse Griffiths1:34

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       When I hear you talk about Dai Due, when I hear you talk about cooking in general, and of course you got a new book out. It's out right now, the hog book. Go get it. Uh, Chef's Guide to Hunting, Butchering, and Cooking Wild Pigs. Uh, but it's, it's very inspiring.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths1:50

       Thank you. Thank you. I, yeah, I, I've, I, I love food and, uh, most of my life revolves around gathering it in some way or another. Um, whether, I mean, I, I like to go pick blackberries a lot. Um, and that translates to a lot of other things. I mean, I, I obviously like to kill pigs. Um, I also like to buy carrots, things like that. I like to serve food. Um, and it's, it's, uh, it's honest work and, um, I'm glad that you appreciate that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       Yeah. It's, uh, it's, you know, I learned from Anthony Bourdain that what food really is, it's like it's an art form that's temporary.

   18. JGJesse Griffiths2:24

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       You know, I used to think of food as just being delicious.

   20. JGJesse Griffiths2:27

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:27

       And then I watched that No Reservation show and I'm like, "Oh, these are artists. Oh." It was like a shift in my head. I had to like rethink what, what it meant to be a chef.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths2:36

       Right. I don't know. Uh, sometimes I, I might disagree a little bit with the artist, uh, label, and more that I... You know, sometimes I'll tell our staff is like we're plumbers. Like we're, we're more craftsmen than, than artists. Now there's some, some chefs that are artists that are out there that way smarter than me, and they can make a foam or they can compose a dish with things that just like will blow your mind and you're like, "I don't think that's gonna be good." And then they put it together and it is really good. Um, I think of, uh, you know what, it make- being a chef got really hip, I, I don't know, I mean, Bourdain had a lot to do with that too. But I, I like to tell, uh, our staff (laughs) particularly just to kind of keep everybody's, you know, egos within, uh, within limit, uh, that we're, that we're more craftsmen, you know? That we're like, we're like plumbers, you know? We do something that's needed on a daily basis 'cause, you know, you, you eat a really good meal and you're hungry the next day. And so I think that there, some, some chefs are certainly artists and I really admire them. I, however, am not one of those.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       You're being humble. I get it, though. And I like what you're saying about keeping the other people in check. Good move. Very smart. Tell them they're plumbers. (laughs)

   24. JGJesse Griffiths3:44

       Right. Right. I mean, no offense-

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       You don't want-

   26. JGJesse Griffiths3:46

       ... to plumbers either. I mean-

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       Right. No offense.

   28. JGJesse Griffiths3:47

       They make a hell of a lot more money than, than cooks do. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       Well, yeah. And you're fucking... You know, when your sink's broken or your toilet's backed up, you need them. The, um, the thing about it is, though, like there is an art to cooking food correctly. It's not sim- And there's also an art to being like a carpenter, right? You know?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths4:02

       Yeah.
2. 5:16 – 6:44

   How Dai Due started: supper clubs, local sourcing, and Texas seasonality challenges

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:16

      How long have you owned Dai Due for?

   2. JGJesse Griffiths5:19

      Uh, as a, as a brick and mortar restaurant, seven years. Now, the, it's been in business since 2006 when we started and, uh, basically (laughs) , uh, going to farms and setting up, uh, outdoor dinners and doing these big dinners outside. We called it a supper club. And we would serve, at our hay day, we were serving 80 people every week, once a week. Um, and just sourcing everything locally. A lot of times just from one farm. Uh, and then, you know, getting fish out of the gulf or freshwater fish, um, local olive oil, local dairy, local cheeses, local fruit, everything. Just, and whatever was available, that's what we'd do. Now these days, I don't think that's...... entirely novel. Um, but in 2006 to, you know, 2010, it was still a little bit novel. Not to say (laughs) that eating like that is a, is a, is a, like, groundbreaking idea because it's probably the second-oldest idea known to humans.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:18

      Right.

   4. JGJesse Griffiths6:19

      And so, uh, but, but to kind of do it... Well, I, I would say doing it, doing it, it in Texas, um, was hard, harder. And no one had ever really attempted that with the ingredients here because it is such a rough space. It can be. I mean, the weather is very extreme and, uh, the growing seasons can be great or are terrible. We have, you know, weather events, things like that.

3. 6:44 – 11:21

   Jesse’s path into kitchens (no culinary school) and the “local cuisine” revelation

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:44

      So when you started out in 2006, um, were you coming right out of culinary school? Like, what were you, what were you doing before then?

   2. JGJesse Griffiths6:51

      Uh, I'd just been working in restaurants. Um, I never went to culinary school, um, or any school beyond high school. (laughs) And, uh, just, I just loved cooking. And I'd always worked in restaurants, but I did start to grow a little bit tired of this disconnection with food that I saw in restaurants. I traveled, uh, to Mexico and I traveled to Europe, and I saw in those two places that their cuisine was based on their local ingredients. And to put it in a really extreme way, in Northern Mexico, the food was wonderful, but it was very much austere. I mean, we're looking at onions and chilies and beans, and I'm talking about the high desert. Um, meat, I mean, no seafood whatsoever, obviously. They're a couple of hours from the coast. And they were still able to pull off this really beautiful food there. And that was just... It was meaningful. And then if you go some place like Europe, where it's like, oh, well, there's a lot more resources there, like in Southern France or Italy or some place like that, and you saw what they were doing, you know, they, they, you know, here we use walnut oil and duck fat as our primary cooking fats. And they base a whole cuisine on that region of France off of that. And what I saw where I'm from is that we had nothing like that. Whenever we wanted asparagus, we would order it. Whenever we wanted a beef tenderloin, we ordered it. And we'd get in these boxes full of, you know, random, nameless animals and out-of-season produce from, uh, across the world. And I, I, I, I just thought that what if we could represent the bounty of, of this area a little better? And I saw what, what you could do with an austere space, like in Northern Mexico. And I'm like, "Certainly we can do that in Central Texas," because we are very uniquely poised between the coasts in North Texas. We have prairies, we have hill country full of game, South Texas full of citrus and mangoes, things like that.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:44

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JGJesse Griffiths8:44

      We have, we have everything we need here.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:46

      I don't know what austere means.

   6. JGJesse Griffiths8:48

      Um- (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:49

      Do you?

   8. JGJesse Griffiths8:49

      Not, not bountiful, um...

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:51

      Don't know what it means?

   10. JGJesse Griffiths8:51

       Like a very-

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:52

       I was pretending I knew what it meant.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths8:53

       Oh, oh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:53

       For a while I was like, "I better ask a question." (laughs)

   14. JGJesse Griffiths8:56

       Yeah, um, you know, not, not necessarily poor but, uh, not, not an enriched environment. Oh, God. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:01

       Severe or strict in manner, attitude, or appearance. An austere man, okay, of living conditions or way of life, having no comforts or luxuries, harsh or aesthetic... Aesthetic? Is that a word? Aesthetic? How do you say that? Conditions in the prison could hardly be more austere, um, having an extremely plain and simple style or appearance, unadorned. The cathedral is impressive in its austere simplicity.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths9:27

       There you go.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       Okay. So, um, when you... Did you get out of high school and then immediately start working in restaurants?

   18. JGJesse Griffiths9:33

       I worked through, in restaurants all through high school, since I was-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       Did you always know that you wanted to be a cook?

   20. JGJesse Griffiths9:36

       Uh, no. I mean, I worked in the front of the house. I was a waiter and a bartender.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:40

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths9:40

       Um, it was just a good way to make cash. Um, and cash, you know, I, I loved it, you know, as a-

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       (laughs)

   24. JGJesse Griffiths9:44

       ... as a young man. And I, you know, I spent it on, um, um, I, I tithed most, most of it, at, um... No, I did not.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:51

       (laughs)

   26. JGJesse Griffiths9:51

       Um, but I, I, I enjoyed being in the front of the house, but I knew that it wasn't a long-term thing for me. So, I, I took the pay cut and went to the kitchen and, uh, just started working in kitchens at, um, when I was about 20. And then I was born in North Texas and kind of just worked my way south to Austin and got here in '98.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       Is going to culinary school the normal path when someone becomes a chef? Or is that-

   28. JGJesse Griffiths10:17

       Yes, yes. And I mean, I think it can be great. It really depends on the person. I've known a lot of people that came out of culinary schools that are, that have done a, a wonderful job in their career, and also a lot of people that, you know, they, it didn't work, and, you know, they're, they're onto massage school next. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       (laughs) Right, right. Well, that's like with everything, right?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths10:33

       Sure.
4. 11:21 – 16:34

   The Venice lesson: respecting simplicity, sourcing, and relationships

   1. JGJesse Griffiths11:21

      I never, I never left. And then, um, when I started traveling, and that's when I really got excited about it, and, um, you know, just saw food in its, in its, in its real way, you know? I think, like, a formative meal for me would be in, in Venice. Um, I, I was, uh, able to travel there, but I was also able to work in a kitchen. It was in the off season. Nobody was, was there 'cause it was between, like, the, the sunny season and Carnival. And so, the chef took me literally on a gondola. Like, I mean, you can't get more romanticized than that. He's like, "We have to go to the, the seafood market." "Well, how do you get to the seafood market?" You get on a gondola. And the guy takes you across the canal, and then we went and bought the most beautiful sole, you know, like a little miniature flounder. It was a tiny little flatfish. And then we go back to his kitchen, and he's got-... uh, a reach-in cooler and it's, it's the depths of their os- ops- off-season, so there's not much going on, vegetable-wise. And he's got three sizes of arugula in there. He's got small, like, medium and large. And then he's got some lemons and he's got some olive oil. And this guy takes this sole and he cooks it on a, on a flat top and he's like, "Don't put any salt on it. It's still salty from the lagoon." And I'm like, "Yeah, you're full of shit, man." Like, (laughs) really? I'm like, "Okay." And then he cuts a lemon in half 'cause it's winter and so lemons are in season, it's this beautiful lemon and he puts that on the plate. And then he picks the small arugula and puts that on the plate 'cause it's delicate. And then he takes some olive oil and he puts it on top and he puts it in the window and a waiter comes and takes it. And I, I just remember thinking, like, how, how is that? We could not get away with that in the United States, like, serving food like that. Here, here's a chef who's extremely talented. He's been working in these hotels all over Europe his whole life and he has the ego, (laughs) a lack of, and to, to just put a perfectly cooked piece of fish, some raw greens, some beautiful olive oil, and a perfect lemon on a plate and send it out in the dining room.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:21

      So it's to, to not fuck with it.

   3. JGJesse Griffiths13:23

      Exactly.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:23

      To know exactly when it's, it, this is all you need.

   5. JGJesse Griffiths13:27

      Right. And not-

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:28

      Simplicity.

   7. JGJesse Griffiths13:28

      ... and not think that you... (sighs) You don't have to, to do anything to it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:32

      Right.

   9. JGJesse Griffiths13:32

      And it's, and it's, it's up here, it's, I mean, uh, I mean, I wanna do stuff to, you know, I wanna manipulate it all the time, of course.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JGJesse Griffiths13:37

       But when I saw that, I was like, "That's food and that's cooking and that's, that's hospitality and that's nourish- nourishing right there." You know, I thought that was really cool. And it was all ingredient based and it was all hyperlocal.

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:50

       And there's gotta be something satisfying about, uh, being able to respect the simplicity of a dish, right?

   13. JGJesse Griffiths13:56

       Certainly.

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:56

       To not, not get your fingerprints all over it, just to know that-

   15. JGJesse Griffiths14:01

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:01

       ... as it stands, it's, it's amazing.

   17. JGJesse Griffiths14:03

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       You don't really have to fuck with it.

   19. JGJesse Griffiths14:04

       Yeah. And at that point, your, your skill is really sourcing, you know? It's, it's relationships-

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:11

       Yeah.

   21. JGJesse Griffiths14:11

       ... that you've made with, with a, uh, you know, a fish monger or a farmer or a rancher, or somebody that's, you know, pressing olive oil. It's things like that, that, uh, I think are, are really exciting, 'cause, I mean, once you have those base ingredients, you really don't need to do that much. I mean, you can.

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:27

       Yeah.

   23. JGJesse Griffiths14:27

       You can get there and play with it all you want. My style is certainly to not play with it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:34

       And also, I mean, there's, there's so much wisdom in leaving stuff alone.

   25. JGJesse Griffiths14:37

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:38

       That like, that when you see someone do that and, you know, and you know that that's all it needs, it's like, it's exciting. There's something exciting about something that really hasn't been fucked with-

   27. JGJesse Griffiths14:47

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:47

       ... in that way, like as a dish.

   29. JGJesse Griffiths14:49

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:50

       Just-
5. 16:34 – 22:30

   Teaching hunts and butchery: building food respect through hands-on experience

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:34

      Now, you've been... You use a lot of local ingredients, but you've also been doing this thing where you, uh, take people hunting and show them how to butcher an animal and show them how to cook an animal.

   2. JGJesse Griffiths16:47

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:47

      When did you start doing that?

   4. JGJesse Griffiths16:49

      That was in 2008, so shortly after. Um, we started doing, uh, classes on butchery of domestic pork, um, which was kind of my wheelhouse, I'd learned that in restaurant work. I'd been a prep cook and a butcher in a restaurant. And, uh, being new to hunting at that point, um, I, I had just started hunting a couple years prior and was really excited about it and saw the, uh, opportunity to really kind of tie the two together. You know, I, I knew how to butcher before I knew how to hunt, um, and so that... I had a little bit of an advantage on the back end of it, but still have and still do have to this day a lot to learn about the front end of it. And I wanted to be able to share that with people because I, I think that hunting is a very key way to show people the importance of food, because if you can feel sad about taking the life of a deer or a pig or a squirrel, then you can also understand what a case of carrots that is, you know, rotting at a grocery store because they haven't been sold or they're not, they don't look good enough to sell anymore, that's also sad to me. And, and, you know, a lot of work went into that and, and, and so much, it's immeasurable. And so being able to tie food, uh, with the, with the source like that, with hunting or fishing or whatever, I think was really important. So we started doing classes where we were taking people out and we would... It's guided hunts and then...... you learn how to butcher, cook, and then you eat game throughout the weekend too. And we still do that to this day.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:24

      And when you do this, how many times a year do you do this?

   6. JGJesse Griffiths18:27

      Uh, (laughs) you know, well, um, you know, in season, it's, it's Texas, so it's hot. Our season typically runs, uh, if we, if we have a couple dove hunts or something in there, from mid-September till, uh, maybe April. Um, so just basically the, the cooler and cool and cold months of, of the year, so about six, seven months.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:49

      And when you do it, w- d- you do it on weekends? Like, when, when do you, uh...

   8. JGJesse Griffiths18:52

      Yeah. They're, they're, they're typically weekend classes. Um, we used to do a lot of private events, and now I've just gone to, we work with, we work with one ranch. Um, we do a Friday through Sunday class. And, um, in all honesty, though, our, our whole season this year has fairly much been booked up by, uh, people that came to previous classes.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:12

      Mm.

   10. JGJesse Griffiths19:13

       They, they come back. We have a pretty high return rate on those. We're about to release our schedule of those, but there's gonna be very, very little (laughs) seats available to those. They fill up... We, we do eight classes a year for four people.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       Y- y- you kinda would... If you're hunting too, you're, you're gonna need small groups, right?

   12. JGJesse Griffiths19:30

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       You really can't...

   14. JGJesse Griffiths19:30

       Yeah. It's... And it's got to be very intimate, you know. We want everybody to see everything and put their hands on it. So it's, it's really necessary. We have a team of guides so everybody... If you've never been hunting before, you have a guide. We walk you through the whole, um, the whole series of events, like from sighting in the gun to, um, you know, it's, it's this constant barrage of, of, like, learning. And it's like, this is how you put your heel down, you know. This is the way the wind is blowing. This is the way we're gonna walk to do this, you know. This is, uh, what time of day we expect deer to move, when we expect hogs to move, why we're sitting right here. All kinds... You know, we're, like, constantly feeding information. And then once that animal's taken, we're feeding, you know, more information about this is how you skin, this is how you gut, this is how you use the liver, this is caul fat. Um, this is a shank. This is best for grind. This is best for slow cooking, things like that. And then we teach them how to, how to butcher it, break it down. Um, and then we really want them to be able to do it on their own. And the whole time, we feed them game to kinda really keep it in context, 'cause a lot of times people have been told, uh, you know, that you can't eat that. You know, you can't... You know, deer liver's no good, or, or venison tastes gamey to me, or... I'm not even gonna touch the hog topic yet. But, um, you know, people are very, uh, opinionated about hogs. And, uh, we try to just kinda dispel those myths, and empower and educate people and to be able to do it on their own. Whether or not they go and do it in the future, I don't really know, but I do think that it gives them some very good connectivity. I mean, I know people that came on a trip 12 years ago that still talk about it, to me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:05

       Mm.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths21:05

       And I think it was important. And, I mean, that's ver- that's really important to me and very meaningful, that it's, it's a, it's a formative experience, even if they never do it again, you know. But it, it, it teaches them to really value a resource, that time they killed a deer, 'cause it's really hard to, like... For me, uh, once you've killed that deer, if you open up a, a bag of, of, of beef or something, I, I can't but help but think, like, all those animals in a field, you know, they all had lives, they all had deaths, everything. You know, it's like... And I think it, it teaches you just to appreciate resources. And once you start to appreciate that resource, uh, maybe you'll start to appreciate all resources, you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       Right, you appreciate the-

   18. JGJesse Griffiths21:48

       Anything.

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       ... vegetables-

   20. JGJesse Griffiths21:49

       Sure.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:49

       ... everything else.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths21:50

       Well-

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:50

       Even water.

   24. JGJesse Griffiths21:50

       ... you might appreciate where your clothes are made, or-

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       Right, right, right.

   26. JGJesse Griffiths21:53

       ... or, or, uh, do we need a, a, a leaf blower?

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:57

       (laughs)

   28. JGJesse Griffiths21:57

       You know, things like that.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:58

       Yeah. We are really disconnected from so many things that are critical for life-

   30. JGJesse Griffiths22:04

       Yeah.
6. 22:30 – 28:20

   Texas feral hogs 101: population explosion, history, and what “feral” really means

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      How do you, how do you not appreciate really good food? The, the pig thing, I'm glad you brought that up, because that is one thing that I keep hearing out here from folks that, uh, there's an attitude about pigs that they're disgusting. They're just f- dirty creatures, and they kinda just want them dead. And, uh, I've talked to people that go helicopter hunting.

   2. JGJesse Griffiths22:50

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:50

      And, uh, I go, "Well, what do you do with all the pigs?" And they're like, "You leave them there." And I'm like, "What?"

   4. JGJesse Griffiths22:55

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:55

      I'm like, that doesn't seem... That seems w- not just wasteful, but well...

   6. JGJesse Griffiths23:02

      You know, I mean, there's a lot to that, and that's-

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:04

      You have to, right?

   8. JGJesse Griffiths23:05

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:05

      Because of the-

   10. JGJesse Griffiths23:06

       Certainly.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:06

       ... you have to eradicate a certain amount of those pigs.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths23:08

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:08

       But isn't there, like, a lot of food that you're just letting rot?

   14. JGJesse Griffiths23:11

       There is. So I mean, th- you've... This is the, this is the Pandora's box topic for me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:16

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths23:17

       Um, I'm, I'm very vested, and then I just wrote a book about feral hogs. Um, Steve Rinella, to, to come full circle on that, uh, he called me the hog apologist.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       (laughs)

   18. JGJesse Griffiths23:28

       Um, and it's true. But to, to your point, I think that, you know, we'll start, we'll start there with, uh, a feral hog, so-

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:35

       Let's explain the numbers too, because-

   20. JGJesse Griffiths23:37

       Certainly.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:37

       ... people need to know how, how fucking crazy it is here in Texas.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths23:40

       Yeah. And, and it... And of course these numbers are not gonna be clearly defined, you know. The... It's hard to get a census on hogs. So the estimate, uh, in, in the United States is around 6 million. The estimate here in Texas is between 2 and 4 million, so probably somewhere in the middle of that, maybe 2.6. That's a number that you'll see a lot, uh, maybe around 3 million, but whatever, a bunch.

   23. JRJoe Rogan24:04

       So literally more than the entire population of Austin-

   24. JGJesse Griffiths24:08

       In hogs.

   25. JRJoe Rogan24:09

       ... in hogs.

   26. JGJesse Griffiths24:09

       Spread out around, around the state. And in the time we've been talking about them, you know, how many have been born?

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:16

       Shitting out a bunch of them.

   28. JGJesse Griffiths24:16

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:16

       Boink, boink, boink, boink.

   30. JGJesse Griffiths24:17

       Yeah, yeah. So they have no breeding season. They can breed at a very young age, um, you know, let's say five or six months, uh-... uh, is- is very conceivable. Um, and then they have a gestation period of three months, three weeks, three days, and then they can drop a litter of, you know-
7. 28:20 – 33:02

   Wild pig biology and genetics: boars vs pigs, rapid physical changes, and “invasive” debates

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:20

      Well, we should explain to people what happens to pigs, right? Um, I've talked about it on the podcast before, but if people haven't hea- heard that episode, there's a physiological change that happens to pigs when they get wild.

   2. JGJesse Griffiths28:30

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:30

      So when you're saying that this, these are pigs, they're wild pigs, people are like, "Wait, but they're boars. Boars are different than pigs."

   4. JGJesse Griffiths28:36

      They're not.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:37

      The, uh... It's all called sous scrofa, right?

   6. JGJesse Griffiths28:39

      Correct, correct.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:40

      Yeah, so it's-

   8. JGJesse Griffiths28:40

      And once they escape, within months the, their hair can become shaggier. And we're talking about the same pig, you know?

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:45

      Yeah.

   10. JGJesse Griffiths28:45

       Not its offspring.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:46

       Right.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths28:46

       Their hair can become shaggier, and their snouts will elongate in order to allow them to root more effectively, because that's one of their primary ways of feeding, is rooting. And that's the most destructive way. I mean, they can dig three feet down in soft dirt, and they're getting roots, they're getting insects. They're, they're omnivores. And they, they'll go after anything. And, and so once they get out, they go feral quick. They get, and they get street smarts too. I mean, they go nocturnal. I mean, they're, they're smart, smart animals. And so you add all this together, you know, the, the, the herds that were initially brought here for food, and then further domestic herds, and then you have escapees over hundreds of years of, of, you know, settling in this country. And you've got es- escape domestic hogs. Then you've got hogs specifically brought in for hunting, namely your Russian boars, your Eurasian boars, um, which are kind of the big hairy razorbacks. And so-

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:42

       How much different are those? If... Is it all the... It's still the same species, right?

   14. JGJesse Griffiths29:45

       Yes, it is. And they're... I mean, they're, (sighs) they're... It's like, uh, I believe, and (sighs) you know, not... I don't want to s- stand by it, but I believe it's just like a subspecies. There's one more Latin name after sous scrofa.

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:56

       Oh.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths29:56

       Uh, for the Eurasian. But th- freely interbreeding. It's not like, I mean, they're-

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:01

       They're not hybrids where they're not-

   18. JGJesse Griffiths30:02

       Well, they make hybrids.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       Right, but the hybrids are viable.

   20. JGJesse Griffiths30:05

       Absolutely. Absolutely.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:06

       Yeah, so it's not like a hy-

   22. JGJesse Griffiths30:07

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:07

       ... a hybrid like a liger-

   24. JGJesse Griffiths30:08

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:08

       ... where they can't reproduce.

   26. JGJesse Griffiths30:09

       No, no, no, no, no.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:10

       Yeah.

   28. JGJesse Griffiths30:10

       Nothing like that. Um, and so then you've got some, s- some kind of specific areas. California had a lot of Russian boars brought in, and there's certain areas in Texas. Um, the Powder Horn Ranch down near Port O'Connor was one that, uh, had it brought, s- some brought in specifically and deposited there.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       Is the difference in the flavor or the, the, the way they, like, look, like the flesh?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths30:33

       It would be really hard to determine that now, because most of them over the years have interbred with your standard feral pig. And so purebred...... uh, populations of those hogs are very hard to find. It's debatable whether the Powder Horn Ranch population is purebred Russian boar. I've read, I've read different things about it. Some say that, that it's not. Some say that it is.
8. 33:02 – 50:35

   Why some hogs taste bad: diet, boar taint, stress, and choosing the right cooking strategy

   1. JRJoe Rogan33:02

      Is the difference in the way domestic pork versus wild pork, the way it taste, just primarily diet? Or does, does something happen to their flavor profile when they assume this metamorphosis, when they get out and their snout extends and their hair gets bushy? And does it change the flavor that, like... I would imagine some hormonal changes are happening in their bodies, right?

   2. JGJesse Griffiths33:22

      Mm-hmm. Certainly. You're gonna see, um... A- as far as flavor goes, you can have diet, um, and also most domestic hogs are castrated. And what that does is it prevents something called boar taint. And it's, it is a... You know how some people don't like cilantro?

   3. JRJoe Rogan33:40

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JGJesse Griffiths33:41

      You know, there's, um, you know, maybe 7% of the people don't like cilantro.

   5. JRJoe Rogan33:44

      It's, like, a genetic thing, right?

   6. JGJesse Griffiths33:45

      Yeah. Well, boar taint is offensive to something, like, 96% of people. I mean, like, a lot of people. It's a, it's a very strong musty odor and, um, we deal with it randomly. I mean, when you're hunting wild pigs, uh, you know, very, very, very few of them have been caught and castrated, the boars. So you're gonna have that hormonal influence on them. Um, you're also gonna have diet, uh, which is, which is huge to me. Like, I mean, a, a pig that's foraging along the coast and potentially just eating, you know, in marshes or in this... in South Texas, in, like, mesquite scrub where there's not a lot to eat, versus a hog that's, you know, lives just, you know, 30 minutes southeast of here that's got four varieties of acorns and wild pecans and, like, nice soft ground and blackberry roots to choose from. One of those are gonna be really good and it's that last one. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan34:35

      Mm.

   8. JGJesse Griffiths34:35

      You know, they're gonna put on a lot of fat and be very, very good. So one of the things that we address constantly is, uh, the disparity in quality, uh, for, for wild pigs. But, I mean, to your question of the difference between a domestic hog and a, and a wild pig is, is mostly consistency. Because a domestic hog from a given farm is gonna be given a pig ration and they're gonna be fairly consistent. Now some of them might bully their way to the front of the line and eat a little bit more. They're pigs, (laughs) you know? Um, versus a, a feral hog that from the same property, you know, but it's not getting fed a pig ration. Uh, so you will see a lot of difference. The feral hogs are typically a lot leaner and they can be anywhere from, like, identical in flavor to a domestic pig to very, very different.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:24

      And a lot of them, because they're omnivores, they could perhaps be on... Like, they could find, like, a dead deer or something like that-

   10. JGJesse Griffiths35:32

       Correct.

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:32

       ... and start eating that.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths35:33

       Yeah. Or a live deer.

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:34

       Yeah. Well, I've... I saw one. Uh, there's a photo of one running away with a fawn in its mouth.

   14. JGJesse Griffiths35:38

       Yeah, I've seen it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:39

       Seen that photo?

   16. JGJesse Griffiths35:39

       Oh, any, any picture of a pig doing anything naughty immediately gets sent to me.

   17. JRJoe Rogan35:44

       (laughs)

   18. JGJesse Griffiths35:46

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan35:46

       Yeah. They... So they will go and hunt fawns.

   20. JGJesse Griffiths35:49

       I, I-

   21. JRJoe Rogan35:50

       Or they just see them?

   22. JGJesse Griffiths35:51

       In my book, I call them opportunistic omnivores. Uh, you know, uh... Or I think I call them woodland vacuums with shitty manners also.

   23. JRJoe Rogan36:00

       (laughs)

   24. JGJesse Griffiths36:01

       Uh, it, it's what they come across, you know? There's... I mean, you know about the great rattlesnake debate.

   25. JRJoe Rogan36:07

       What's the great rattlesnake debate?

   26. JGJesse Griffiths36:08

       Okay, so this is, this is a good one. And-

   27. JRJoe Rogan36:10

       You say it like everyone would know. Well, of course, the great rattlesnake.

   28. JGJesse Griffiths36:13

       Oh, you've lived here.

   29. JRJoe Rogan36:14

       Do you know the great rattlesnake debate, young Jamie?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths36:16

       (laughs)
9. 50:35 – 53:40

   Processing and cooking feral hogs: yields, sausage, fat blending, and pork burgers

   1. JRJoe Rogan50:35

      And what are the, what is the difference in what you would do with a 300-pound boar, how you would cook it?

   2. JGJesse Griffiths50:40

      Uh, you know, that's gonna be a lot of sausage, you know, things like that. Some very simple, uh, approach to it. Something that's probably gonna be highly spiced. Um, maybe you're gonna have to add some fat into it if it's lean. Typically, uh, you know, if- out of the same litter, uh, if you have a sow and a boar next to each other, the same age, the sow will probably have a little more fat on her, uh, t- typically. Also will depend on where she's at in her pregnancy cycles. Um, so boars tend to be leaner, but a big boar, I mean, it, it, it mostly is going to be, you know, like, it's, it's gonna be, like, curry or a chili or something that you're gonna add some s- some spice to, uh, some s-

   3. JRJoe Rogan51:21

      You wouldn't cook a ham off of it or anything like that? Slow cooker?

   4. JGJesse Griffiths51:23

      Uh, if it was particularly fatty and looked really good, then I would, but I'm saying, like, uh, generally.

   5. JRJoe Rogan51:32

      So you would take the whole thing and then turn, turn it into sausage?

   6. JGJesse Griffiths51:35

      Could, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan51:36

      Yeah.

   8. JGJesse Griffiths51:36

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan51:36

      And what do you, like, how many pounds is a 300-pound boar when you dress it out?

   10. JGJesse Griffiths51:41

       Uh, you know, it's gonna lose about 45-ish percent of, uh, its weight in offal and hair, things like that, uh, hide, and then, uh, take off probably another 45, 50% off of that, uh, once you get all the bones out of it. So you're probably yielding, you know, get-

   11. JRJoe Rogan52:02

       100-ish pounds?

   12. JGJesse Griffiths52:04

       Uh, yeah, probably a little bit less. I, you know, maybe, like, 80 pounds, something like that, of, of just pure meat and depending on how lean they are, too. Some... I mean, if they got a ton of fat, you know, they might be more bulked out or they might be, you know, just real thin. Sometimes you can see through their ribs, sometimes there's, you know, bacon on them.

   13. JRJoe Rogan52:23

       Right.

   14. JGJesse Griffiths52:23

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:24

       And so normally when you process, uh, sausage like that, so y- you have your cuts and then d- do you have, like, standard recipes where you add X amount of fat-

   16. JGJesse Griffiths52:33

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:34

       ... X amount of, uh, spices and then... You do it all yourself, right?

   18. JGJesse Griffiths52:38

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan52:38

       All the blending?

   20. JGJesse Griffiths52:39

       Yes, so I'm, I'm usually a 20, 25% fat, uh, in the sausage, so we'll, we'll... If it's a very lean hog, we simply just package that into four-pound packages and freeze that and then later-

   21. JRJoe Rogan52:51

       And when you say fat, are you talking about domestic fat?

   22. JGJesse Griffiths52:53

       Yes, typically.

   23. JRJoe Rogan52:54

       So you get domestic pork fat and then you... Or do you use any other, other kind of fat?

   24. JGJesse Griffiths52:59

       Uh, generally I'll use pork fat. If I'm making specifically burgers, I mean, for, like, burgers, cheeseburgers, you know, I'll, I like to add in beef fat or I'll do, like, a 10%, uh, beef fat and 10% bacon.

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:12

       Would do a pork burger?

   26. JGJesse Griffiths53:14

       Absolutely.

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:14

       Really?

   28. JGJesse Griffiths53:15

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:15

       Pork burger?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths53:15

       It's really good. Really good.
10. 53:40 – 1:05:51

    Sous vide, slow-cooking tools, and the plastic-chemical concern

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:40

       What are your thoughts on sous vide?

    2. JGJesse Griffiths53:42

       Uh, I've got, uh, two turkey legs, uh, back at the house, so I'm gonna have to run here in like three hours, but-

    3. JRJoe Rogan53:48

       (laughs)

    4. JGJesse Griffiths53:48

       ... um, uh, that are, that are cooking for 24 hours. I, uh, I don't use it a lot, um, but I, I think there's some applications that it works really well for, es- especially with game. Um, you know, your, your, your steakish cuts can, can be really good. I think you do that a lot, right? You, like-

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:05

       I used to, yeah.

    6. JGJesse Griffiths54:07

       Um-

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:07

       I, I us- I haven't sous vided in a long time.

    8. JGJesse Griffiths54:09

       I, I don't often, like, take a back strap and sous vide it. I prefer to just-

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:14

       Yeah.

    10. JGJesse Griffiths54:14

        ... just cook it on the grill. Um, I will sous vide things like, uh, ribs and things like turkey legs that-

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:22

        Yeah.

    12. JGJesse Griffiths54:22

        ... that I think will benefit, uh, from a very, very long controlled cooking where they don't get overcooked-

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:28

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JGJesse Griffiths54:28

        So then I can usually... I'll, like, put them on the grill afterwards.

    15. JRJoe Rogan54:31

        Yeah, I was watching a YouTube video yesterday where this guy was, uh, cooked, uh, a- an inexpensive chuck steak and he sous vided for 24 hours and then grilled it. So he sous vided, I think it was, uh, I think he did it at 125 degrees for 24 hours and it just, like, broke down all of the collagen and all of the-

    16. JGJesse Griffiths54:52

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan54:52

        ... like, the, the hard, stiff stuff that's in that kind of a hard, you know, like, a more firm cut of meat and then-... afterwards, he grilled it. So, he grilled the outside of it, got a nice sear on it, nice crust. And was cutting through it, and it's like, "This is literally better than a rib eye."

    18. JGJesse Griffiths55:09

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:09

        He was like, "'Cause you get all the flavor from all this, this fat and all this gristle and everything breaking down slowly over the course of 24 hours." So, all that tough stuff becomes very tender, and then seared on the outside.

    20. JGJesse Griffiths55:22

        Right. Yeah, I mean, it, it's a, it's a great tool. And what I like also about it is that it's, uh, it's an empowering tool. 'Cause sometimes people, they, they get into something. You know, they're like kind of technologically ... They, they just like to nerd out on something.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:38

        Yeah.

    22. JGJesse Griffiths55:38

        And sous vide is a classic way for somebody to do that. And if you're struggling with cooking game, or, or it's like, "Oh, it's come out tough," or this or that, I love to see tools like that enter into the, you know, the lexicon.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:52

        Right.

    24. JGJesse Griffiths55:52

        You know, where ... Or I mean, hell, a Crockpot. You know, for me, the Crockpot is like one of the coolest kitchen tools ever if you're a game cook.

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:01

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JGJesse Griffiths56:01

        'Cause what it does is it enables you to cook for a very long time at a precise temperature with no flame. You can go to bed. You can go to work, whatever.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:08

        Yeah.

    28. JGJesse Griffiths56:09

        And then you come back and i- it's cooked. You know, it's like, "Oh, that elk shank that I had, it was tough." You undercooked it, essentially.

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:15

        Right, right.

    30. JGJesse Griffiths56:15

        You know? And so, but a Crockpot is just a really simple way for people to achieve that, and then sous vide is kind of the, the modern, uh, update of, of a tool like that. And so I always appreciate anything that helps people, uh, you know, just, just want to get more out of their, their game, or if it's food in general. You know, just get excited about cooking, I think is just, is so beneficial to everyone, so.
11. 1:05:51 – 1:18:30

    Fire cooking and Dai Due’s open-kitchen concept: hearth, butcher rail, and cultural wood choices

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:05:51

       Um, when you... And when you're grilling things, are you cooking over wood? Like what are you-

    2. JGJesse Griffiths1:05:54

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:05:54

       Is that what you're doing?

    4. JGJesse Griffiths1:05:55

       Yeah. Uh, oak coals. So, we use post oak.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:05:58

       And do you, like you use, uh, l- like lump charcoal or are you actually using the wood itself?

    6. JGJesse Griffiths1:06:04

       We're using... Well, in the, in the restaurant, we're using just wood. No charcoal.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:06:08

       Why do you do that?

    8. JGJesse Griffiths1:06:09

       At, at home.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:06:09

       What is, uh, what's the benefits of using wood?

    10. JGJesse Griffiths1:06:10

        Uh, we just like, we just like wood, you know. We just like the smoke. We like... We cook over hot fires there, so very hot fires. So, we need a lot of heat. Charcoal pops a lot too, um, and just I've always preferred just post oak, you know, just nice ripping fire, spread some coals out and then we're grilling steaks and things over that bread. Everything gets cooked over that.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:06:32

        Hmm.

    12. JGJesse Griffiths1:06:32

        And it's-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:06:32

        And it's just because the flavor imparts?

    14. JGJesse Griffiths1:06:34

        Yeah, I mean it's... There's, there's some cultural value to that too. I mean, we live in a, in a oak rich area and everything, you know, like barbecue in this specific area has always been smoked over oak. Maybe a little bai- bit of pecan. If you go west, you're gonna start to see more mesquite, more... And south, you're gonna see mesquite, and you go east, you start to see things like hickory. And some of your, your... The, the wood you're burning I think also has some cul- cultural import too. And so it all kind of factors into the, the, the whole, this, the dish in the end, you know.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:07:07

        Hmm.

    16. JGJesse Griffiths1:07:07

        It's just like how you made that and what, what tree you cooked it over.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:07:11

        All right. When you think about doing that and you think about like, uh, cooking over, uh, oak fires and, and, and it's... Is this some... I mean, this is gotta be something that's been done here for a long, long time, right?

    18. JGJesse Griffiths1:07:25

        Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's like... I mean, cooking concepts, I mean, as far as that goes, I mean, I mean an, an animal over burning-... wood that's abundant, both of those things, hopefully. An abundant animal over abundant wood would make the most sense.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:07:42

        And that, there's something about fire and cooking over fire, too, that's, it just taps into some weird, uh, ancient memories or something. It's like, it's very satisfying and exciting-

    20. JGJesse Griffiths1:07:53

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:07:53

        ... to cook straight over a fire. It's a very different feeling than putting something on a frying pan over a burner, a gas burner-

    22. JGJesse Griffiths1:07:59

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:07:59

        ... which is all nice and everything. But there's a feeling that you get when you're cooking something over fire.

    24. JGJesse Griffiths1:08:03

        Yeah. I mean, I, I can't even speak to it. I mean, you, you said it, but, I mean, I, I, I don't know how to get, how to address it without just, you know, tapping into something that we don't understand. But it's there, and it's why we all stare at fires.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:08:16

        (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    26. JGJesse Griffiths1:08:16

        You know? You can't, you just stare at fires. Then you, I mean, also, you wanna cook things over fires, and when you have a fire, you wanna cook everything over a fire.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:08:24

        Yeah, they're beautiful.

    28. JGJesse Griffiths1:08:25

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:08:25

        There, there's something about it. It's like this crazy nature, like, this reaction that you can sort of help and manipulate. You start moving the logs around and, you know-

    30. JGJesse Griffiths1:08:37

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 3:08:29