Joe Rogan Experience #1676 - Jesse Griffiths

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JGJesse Griffiths0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) What's up, Jesse? How are you, man?

   4. JGJesse Griffiths0:16

      Doing really well. I'm good.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      You are one of the many people that are cool as fuck that I've met because of Steve Rinella.

   6. JGJesse Griffiths0:21

      Oh. Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      I need that, give that guy like a, uh, w- like a gift just for introducing me to cool people. Like I met, like at least a dozen really cool people because of Steve Rinella.

   8. JGJesse Griffiths0:31

      Yeah. Uh, I, I can believe that. Um, he is a, he's a powerful person. And, uh, I'm, I'm honored to be included in that group. I really am. Um, he's, he's done a lot for us. Um, he's, his, his ability to like get out there and, and support people and his, his knowledge of his reach, um, and, and, and just wanting to get out there and be, uh, like promote people-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:54

      Yeah.

   10. JGJesse Griffiths0:54

       ... it's, it's very, very kind.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       He is.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths0:56

       He's a very generous person.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       He is. And it's, uh, he's, he's so smart and he's so important to that, to that world, the world of wild foods, you know? And, um, I heard you on the podcast, on his podcast, a few years back when, uh, you were talking, uh, you guys were talking about, uh, cooking and, and Dai Due, your restaurant here in Austin, and you could tell right away that what you're doing is very much a, like a passion project. Like you're, you're a guy like when you talk about food and you talk about cooking, when you talk about like the ingredients that you use, and it's like I fucking love when someone's really into what they do.

   14. JGJesse Griffiths1:34

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       When I hear you talk about Dai Due, when I hear you talk about cooking in general, and of course you got a new book out. It's out right now, the hog book. Go get it. Uh, Chef's Guide to Hunting, Butchering, and Cooking Wild Pigs. Uh, but it's, it's very inspiring.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths1:50

       Thank you. Thank you. I, yeah, I, I've, I, I love food and, uh, most of my life revolves around gathering it in some way or another. Um, whether, I mean, I, I like to go pick blackberries a lot. Um, and that translates to a lot of other things. I mean, I, I obviously like to kill pigs. Um, I also like to buy carrots, things like that. I like to serve food. Um, and it's, it's, uh, it's honest work and, um, I'm glad that you appreciate that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       Yeah. It's, uh, it's, you know, I learned from Anthony Bourdain that what food really is, it's like it's an art form that's temporary.

   18. JGJesse Griffiths2:24

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       You know, I used to think of food as just being delicious.

   20. JGJesse Griffiths2:27

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:27

       And then I watched that No Reservation show and I'm like, "Oh, these are artists. Oh." It was like a shift in my head. I had to like rethink what, what it meant to be a chef.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths2:36

       Right. I don't know. Uh, sometimes I, I might disagree a little bit with the artist, uh, label, and more that I... You know, sometimes I'll tell our staff is like we're plumbers. Like we're, we're more craftsmen than, than artists. Now there's some, some chefs that are artists that are out there that way smarter than me, and they can make a foam or they can compose a dish with things that just like will blow your mind and you're like, "I don't think that's gonna be good." And then they put it together and it is really good. Um, I think of, uh, you know what, it make- being a chef got really hip, I, I don't know, I mean, Bourdain had a lot to do with that too. But I, I like to tell, uh, our staff (laughs) particularly just to kind of keep everybody's, you know, egos within, uh, within limit, uh, that we're, that we're more craftsmen, you know? That we're like, we're like plumbers, you know? We do something that's needed on a daily basis 'cause, you know, you, you eat a really good meal and you're hungry the next day. And so I think that there, some, some chefs are certainly artists and I really admire them. I, however, am not one of those.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       You're being humble. I get it, though. And I like what you're saying about keeping the other people in check. Good move. Very smart. Tell them they're plumbers. (laughs)

   24. JGJesse Griffiths3:44

       Right. Right. I mean, no offense-

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       You don't want-

   26. JGJesse Griffiths3:46

       ... to plumbers either. I mean-

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       Right. No offense.

   28. JGJesse Griffiths3:47

       They make a hell of a lot more money than, than cooks do. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       Well, yeah. And you're fucking... You know, when your sink's broken or your toilet's backed up, you need them. The, um, the thing about it is, though, like there is an art to cooking food correctly. It's not sim- And there's also an art to being like a carpenter, right? You know?

   30. JGJesse Griffiths4:02

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah, I think so.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

   2. JGJesse Griffiths15:00

      Yeah, I think so.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      Yeah, it's like a, a perfectly cooked piece of meat. It's like, it doesn't... it's not requiring a lot, it's just, like, time and understanding what you're doing with it and salt and meat.

   4. JGJesse Griffiths15:11

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      I mean, it's about as primitive as you get.

   6. JGJesse Griffiths15:14

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      But when it's done right, it's like you, you, there's something about food where you f- you can almost, like, feel the effort when you cook, cook something perfectly and then you serve it to someone and they're eating it. Like, like, the, the effort of the people that have put this dish together comes through as you're eating it.

   8. JGJesse Griffiths15:29

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      And when it's done really well, it's like, there's this, like, you're excited about the skill of the person who put this together.

   10. JGJesse Griffiths15:37

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Like, if you have a perfectly cooked steak and you're eating like, "Oh." And you're excited about how they're, how they took care of it, whether they dry aged it, how they cooked it, you know, how they checked the temperature perfectly and served it.

   12. JGJesse Griffiths15:49

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       Like, there's so much going on there.

   14. JGJesse Griffiths15:51

       Yeah. I'm excited about the relationship we have with the rancher too.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JGJesse Griffiths15:54

       You know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       Yeah.

   18. JGJesse Griffiths15:55

       And like, and the story that they tell, you know? It's just like, oh, it's been... The, the, the rib eye primals are gonna look really good for the next month or so because we've had so much rain, the grass is really high, things like that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:07

       Right, right, right. Yeah.

   20. JGJesse Griffiths16:08

       And how that, I mean, that, how it computes, the, the whole system. And, you know, I think it's imperative that cooks get out there and see what it's like to grow a cr- a carrot or, or, or see a cow in, in the field, um, catch a fish, kill a deer, things like that. I think that all those things are really important lessons that, that tie you to that whole, the, the source, and then the whole system that it takes to get it to you.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Now, you've been... You use a lot of local ingredients, but you've also been doing this thing where you, uh, take people hunting and show them how to butcher an animal and show them how to cook an animal.

   22. JGJesse Griffiths16:47

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       When did you start doing that?

   24. JGJesse Griffiths16:49

       That was in 2008, so shortly after. Um, we started doing, uh, classes on butchery of domestic pork, um, which was kind of my wheelhouse, I'd learned that in restaurant work. I'd been a prep cook and a butcher in a restaurant. And, uh, being new to hunting at that point, um, I, I had just started hunting a couple years prior and was really excited about it and saw the, uh, opportunity to really kind of tie the two together. You know, I, I knew how to butcher before I knew how to hunt, um, and so that... I had a little bit of an advantage on the back end of it, but still have and still do have to this day a lot to learn about the front end of it. And I wanted to be able to share that with people because I, I think that hunting is a very key way to show people the importance of food, because if you can feel sad about taking the life of a deer or a pig or a squirrel, then you can also understand what a case of carrots that is, you know, rotting at a grocery store because they haven't been sold or they're not, they don't look good enough to sell anymore, that's also sad to me. And, and, you know, a lot of work went into that and, and, and so much, it's immeasurable. And so being able to tie food, uh, with the, with the source like that, with hunting or fishing or whatever, I think was really important. So we started doing classes where we were taking people out and we would... It's guided hunts and then...... you learn how to butcher, cook, and then you eat game throughout the weekend too. And we still do that to this day.

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:24

       And when you do this, how many times a year do you do this?

   26. JGJesse Griffiths18:27

       Uh, (laughs) you know, well, um, you know, in season, it's, it's Texas, so it's hot. Our season typically runs, uh, if we, if we have a couple dove hunts or something in there, from mid-September till, uh, maybe April. Um, so just basically the, the cooler and cool and cold months of, of the year, so about six, seven months.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:49

       And when you do it, w- d- you do it on weekends? Like, when, when do you, uh...

   28. JGJesse Griffiths18:52

       Yeah. They're, they're, they're typically weekend classes. Um, we used to do a lot of private events, and now I've just gone to, we work with, we work with one ranch. Um, we do a Friday through Sunday class. And, um, in all honesty, though, our, our whole season this year has fairly much been booked up by, uh, people that came to previous classes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:12

       Mm.

   30. JGJesse Griffiths19:13

       They, they come back. We have a pretty high return rate on those. We're about to release our schedule of those, but there's gonna be very, very little (laughs) seats available to those. They fill up... We, we do eight classes a year for four people.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   They're not hybrids where…

   1. JGJesse Griffiths30:00

      It's not like, I mean, they're-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:01

      They're not hybrids where they're not-

   3. JGJesse Griffiths30:02

      Well, they make hybrids.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      Right, but the hybrids are viable.

   5. JGJesse Griffiths30:05

      Absolutely. Absolutely.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Yeah, so it's not like a hy-

   7. JGJesse Griffiths30:07

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      ... a hybrid like a liger-

   9. JGJesse Griffiths30:08

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:08

       ... where they can't reproduce.

   11. JGJesse Griffiths30:09

       No, no, no, no, no.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:10

       Yeah.

   13. JGJesse Griffiths30:10

       Nothing like that. Um, and so then you've got some, s- some kind of specific areas. California had a lot of Russian boars brought in, and there's certain areas in Texas. Um, the Powder Horn Ranch down near Port O'Connor was one that, uh, had it brought, s- some brought in specifically and deposited there.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       Is the difference in the flavor or the, the, the way they, like, look, like the flesh?

   15. JGJesse Griffiths30:33

       It would be really hard to determine that now, because most of them over the years have interbred with your standard feral pig. And so purebred...... uh, populations of those hogs are very hard to find. It's debatable whether the Powder Horn Ranch population is purebred Russian boar. I've read, I've read different things about it. Some say that, that it's not. Some say that it is.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       It's a high fence?

   17. JGJesse Griffiths30:59

       It's got a high fence around it and has had one since the 1920s, I believe.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Oh, wow.

   19. JGJesse Griffiths31:03

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       And so whenever they brought in the boars, those are the same breeding population?

   21. JGJesse Griffiths31:09

       Right, they think. But, you know, you know, a fence doesn't mean shit to a pig, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       Right.

   23. JGJesse Griffiths31:13

       They go under it, you know, any way around it that they can. Flood, waters come up. They can swim, you know? It, it's... So it's, it's not known. But there is one sequestered population of feral hogs in the United States and that's on Oceaba Island off the coast of Georgia. And so that was an Iberico hog, uh, brought over here by the Spanish. You know, pointy hats, long brown robes. They dropped some hogs on that island and that island has sustained a population of purebred Iberico hogs to this day. Uh, and it's called Oceaba Island and they have an Oceaba Island hog which is a purebred Iberico hog, which is the same hog that produces the 150 ti- $150 a pound, uh, Serrano ham.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       Yeah. I've seen, uh, Iberico. I've seen that name-

   25. JGJesse Griffiths32:00

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:00

       ... before. Jamon.

   27. JGJesse Griffiths32:02

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       You know?

   29. JGJesse Griffiths32:02

       Jamon Iberico.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:03

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JGJesse Griffiths45:00

      I, I kill them (laughs) very regularly too. Uh, and, and I don't feel necessarily... I, I don't feel really bad about it, but I also, I want them to die quickly and I know that we need to get behind that wholesale to-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      Yeah.

   3. JGJesse Griffiths45:13

      ... in order to control this problem. But, um, I would just like to see them utilized as food more.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:18

      Well, it seems like a perfect food source if you think about it. It's an invasive species, you have to control the population of them, they're very nutritious-

   5. JGJesse Griffiths45:26

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      ... really good for you. They're delicious.

   7. JGJesse Griffiths45:28

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:28

      And, uh, they're also gross looking, so people don't feel as bad about shooting them.

   9. JGJesse Griffiths45:32

      Yeah. Yeah. There's that. I mean, I think the debatable thing is if they're delicious. Not on my part. I mean, that's, that's my role-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JGJesse Griffiths45:38

       ... in this, is that... Is to-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:40

       Right.

   13. JGJesse Griffiths45:40

       ... convince people because of the mythology that's out there about them. Um, I mean, I've heard everything from, "You can't eat them," period, to, "You can only eat them if they're under..." And I have heard every weight category-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Yeah.

   15. JGJesse Griffiths45:53

       ... that you can imagine, and it's always laughable to me. If they're under 80, 100. It goes in 20-pound increments at least, you know, to make it, you know, seem a little more scientific. But, uh, it- you know, I, I've eaten 300-pound boars that had testicles the size of cantaloupes and they were absolutely delicious.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       They were that big? Their nuts were that big?

   17. JGJesse Griffiths46:13

       Oh, they get big. They get real big.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:15

       Do you make, uh, Rocky Mountain oysters out of their nuts?

   19. JGJesse Griffiths46:18

       There's a recipe in the book for them.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       (laughs)

   21. JGJesse Griffiths46:21

       So, uh, you know, it... Just convincing people to, to try them. And I mean, it really... It, it doesn't... I don't, I don't care if you do or not, but, uh, I'd really like to give people the confidence to try them more, and know that a lot of the things that they've heard about pigs are not true.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:36

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JGJesse Griffiths46:36

       There's a lot of, like, generational mythology. You know, "You can't eat that pig because it's too big. You can't eat any boar." You know, you'll hear that too and it's like, that's just not true.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       Right.

   25. JGJesse Griffiths46:46

       I eat them all the time. And either I have a really terrible palate or that's wrong, you know?

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Well, is it a, a prep... It's, it's certainly... It has, there has to be some sort of impact on whatever their diet is, right?

   27. JGJesse Griffiths46:58

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:59

       But it also, it's a preparation issue and that's where your-

   29. JGJesse Griffiths47:02

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:02

       ... classes come in.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:11:29

   And when you do…

   1. JGJesse Griffiths1:00:00

      Things like that. And then they're just gonna come out and just get slowly cooked and crisped up on the grill. And I think that that method is something we use in the restaurant just extensively, is to cook things, um, beforehand till they're tender, and then we let 'em cool. And then like to order, we're cooking 'em over a hot grill. We do that with ribs. We do, you know, beef ribs, with, with wild boar ribs, pork ribs. Uh, we do that with chicken hearts. We do that with, uh, you know, duck quarters. Anything like that where you can take something and kind of cook it to where it's tender, and then just, you know, set it aside. I mean, you ... I mean, put it in the refrigerator for a few days. And then when it's time to, to grill it, it comes out and you just (sizzling sound) and you're just adding some char and smoke, crisping the skin on it, maybe glazing it with something. And I think it's just a really great way, uh, to kind of just reverse that whole process, where instead of browning it in the middle and then braising it, you're braising it, then cooling it, and then, then browning it. It's very, a very like Mexican technique right there, where so many meats are slow cooked and then, you know, like when you get a taco on the street, it's like it's been ... it's just been cooked forever. And then it's just hit on this flat, this plancha, that just like sears it, um, and you know, reheats it, and it just ... And that's where you get that crust and that Maillard reaction and everything. And it's just, it's, it's brilliant. And it's broken down and tender. And I think that applying that to game, um ... I mean, you can do domestic animals too, of course, but applying it to game is a really good trick.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

      And when you do that in terms of like cooking it-... uh, and then refrigerating it. How, how, what temperature do you like to bring it back up to before you, you sear it on the outside?

   3. JGJesse Griffiths1:01:34

      I usually like to go cold.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

      Really?

   5. JGJesse Griffiths1:01:36

      Um, because if, if it is really tender... Let's, let's say, uh, let's, uh, say some elk ribs. Um, and you cook 'em until... And whatever method, like you maybe wrap them up real well and you put 'em in the oven and cook them until they're tender, or you braise them in pure fat like a confit. Um, and then they're, they're pretty tender. I'm not saying like falling apart tender, but if you get them to where they're almost tender, if you let them come back up to room temperature, they're gonna start to get a little floppy and hard to deal with. If you go cold onto the grill and, and start to, uh, manage that crust on there, they'll be a lot easier to handle. So, I typically will go cold onto the grill.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

      Really? An- and is it because there's n- it's not a thick amount of meat on those ribs too, right?

   7. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:17

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

      So, you don't have to worry about it being really cold in the center if you're charring the outside, it'll heat up the whole thing.

   9. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:21

      Yeah, I mean, and just give it ample time, you know.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:23

       Yeah.

   11. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:23

       And not a, not a... It doesn't have to be a ripping hot grill necessarily. It kind of depends on what you're doing. But, you know, you can like, you, you could take 30 minutes to kind of get a nice crust on a rack of ribs. And I do it with, with, uh, hog ribs all the time 'cause they're so variable.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:37

       You know, they could have two inches of meat on them or you could like be able to read a book through them sometimes.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:43

       Hmm.

   15. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:43

       I mean, they can just be so thin. So, if you wanna like parcook them and then throw them on the grill afterwards, it's just a really good simple way to make that happen.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:51

       And are, are you... Do you like to use a meat thermometer or are you doing it all by touch and feel?

   17. JGJesse Griffiths1:02:55

       Yeah. I mean, these are, these things are cooked to shred, you know.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:00

       Right.

   19. JGJesse Griffiths1:03:00

       These things are re- they're at 190 plus-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:03

       For that?

   21. JGJesse Griffiths1:03:03

       ... for multiple... Yeah. Almost all these things that I'm describing. These are well done pieces of, of meat. I mean, not like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:03:09

       Because it's hog?

   23. JGJesse Griffiths1:03:10

       Yes. Well, or, or the cuts that I'm talk- I'm talking about I, um, particularly like to do this on your slow cooking cuts, your shanks, your ribs, um, you know, like pieces of shoulder. Things that, that have to cook for a very long time anyway. Not necessarily like your, your, your backstrap or your loin that you're cooking medium rare. Um, I'm applying this more to things that I want to cook until they're like f- almost falling apart. But, you know, just a little bit shy of that. And then, they don't have any crust on the outside 'cause... I mean, one, one method would be to just simply poach hog ribs in water. Like I... There's a reci- there's a method for thi- for that in that book.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:03:49

       Really?

   25. JGJesse Griffiths1:03:49

       Where you would-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:49

       Poching them?

   27. JGJesse Griffiths1:03:50

       Sure. Or, or ve- it works really well with venison ribs too. If they're, if they're particularly lean, you just put them in water, you season the water really heavily with onions and spices and garlic and whatever, ginger, whatever. And then, uh, cook them until they're almost done and then you pull them out, cool them off a little bit, and then, then finish those on a grill and then you can glaze them with something that's sweet and sour and sticky and whatever from there. And they're excellent and it gets them very tender and then you go in and get them crispy and add that smoke component at the very end.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04:22

       And is this how you've always done it or is this something like you've figured out along the way?

   29. JGJesse Griffiths1:04:26

       Um, yeah, it's kind of twofold. You know, we've, we've always done that, uh, for many years with hog and venison ribs specifically. But then, you know, in a restaurant setting, it, it's got some big advantages. Like we, we do a, we do a whole beef rib and the thing can weigh, depending on the cow, three and a half pounds raw. So, it's a whole beef rib and what we'll do is we will season that and then we'll submerge that in hot beef fat and cook that at a very low temperature which is called a confit where we're basically just braising it in fat until it's tender. It's tied and then we pull it out and cool it and then to order, I mean, 'cause that process takes four or five hours. And then to order, that cold tender but firm beef rib just goes onto a hot grill and gets rolled on a grill until it's hot throughout and it gets crisp on the outside. And so you get a little bit of smoke and some texture on the outside and the meat's just falling apart tender.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:23

       And you just know when to do it just based on how many times you've done it in the past?

Episode duration: 3:08:29