Joe Rogan Experience #1680 - Jakob Dylan

1. 0:00 – 1:39

   Fear Factor memories, grimy downtown shoots, and LA’s visible homelessness

   1. JDJakob Dylan0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Hello, Jacob.

   4. JDJakob Dylan0:15

      How you doing?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Good to see you again, man.

   6. JDJakob Dylan0:17

      Good to see you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      First time we met, we were talking about it earlier, uh, you took your kids to Fear Factor where it was a gross day, right?

   8. JDJakob Dylan0:24

      Uh, d- weren't they all, I suppose?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      No, the, the second day is always the gross day.

   10. JDJakob Dylan0:27

       Oh, I didn't know that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Yeah, it was the first day is a big stunt.

   12. JDJakob Dylan0:29

       Oh, today ... The first day is the sports day more.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Yeah, and then the second day-

   14. JDJakob Dylan0:32

       Oh. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       ... it's disgusting and then the third day it's usually something epic.

   16. JDJakob Dylan0:35

       Well, had I had a choice, we would've picked the disgusting day anyway.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       (laughs)

   18. JDJakob Dylan0:38

       That was pretty wild.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       I don't remember what it was. Do you?

   20. JDJakob Dylan0:42

       No, you know, it was downtown. It was in an abandoned building, like a-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Yeah.

   22. JDJakob Dylan0:45

       ... warehouse style and it was disgusting before you guys even started.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       It was.

   24. JDJakob Dylan0:48

       I do remember the, what looked like an exploded melted cat on a chair.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Oh.

   26. JDJakob Dylan0:53

       There was fur, there was a face and it had been, like, for many ... I don't know how, how long it had been there, but-

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       That might be just a part of the landscape.

   28. JDJakob Dylan0:59

       I'm just saying that had nothing-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Yeah.

   30. JDJakob Dylan1:00

       That wasn't you guys.
2. 1:39 – 4:29

   Staying in LA vs leaving: traffic, commuting, and the LAX “loop” problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:39

      You live in there?

   2. JDJakob Dylan1:40

      I do, just ma- mainly 'cause I've always been there.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:42

      Yeah.

   4. JDJakob Dylan1:42

      And my, I, I think often about going somewhere else. You just transplanted here.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:46

      Yeah, that was, uh, my concern too is that I, I, I've been there for so long that I was just gonna stay there and-

   6. JDJakob Dylan1:52

      Where were you out there?

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:53

      I was in Calabasas.

   8. JDJakob Dylan1:54

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:54

      I was out, like, in the, the suburban area.

   10. JDJakob Dylan1:57

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       Which is nice. It's quieter and it's, but it's not quiet enough. When I moved, I moved there in '96.

   12. JDJakob Dylan2:05

       Oh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       So ... Or '97? Something like that. But it was, uh, when I moved there it was, you know, no one was out there. It's like coyotes and-

   14. JDJakob Dylan2:13

       (laughs) Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       ... owls and shit.

   16. JDJakob Dylan2:14

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       And it was just ... That's what I like. I like quiet, you know? Just peace.

   18. JDJakob Dylan2:17

       Did you have to commute every day for, for any of this?

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       Yeah, but-

   20. JDJakob Dylan2:20

       It was-

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       You know, you just-

   22. JDJakob Dylan2:21

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:21

       ... leave on time and, you know. I w- like, for f- when I was doing news radio, the TV shows when I first moved out there and we didn't really start until 10:00 AM at the earliest, so, you, you know, by that time traffic had started to die down, it's not that big a deal.

   24. JDJakob Dylan2:36

       Yeah. Well it's back. Traffic is back.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       Yeah.

   26. JDJakob Dylan2:39

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:39

       It's back.

   28. JDJakob Dylan2:40

       Yeah. We got, uh, see, we were just talking earlier that, that we thought there was an exodus of people leaving these major cities, but I don't, haven't noticed that. It seems like more people than ever out there.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:48

       Well, there's so many people even if you lose a million people or two million people or three million people, you still have 25 million people jammed into an area where when I moved to LA in '94, I guess, it was probably, I mean, I gotta think the population was like a third of that.

   30. JDJakob Dylan3:07

       Oh, yeah. Well for sure-
3. 4:29 – 6:23

   LA institutions and comedy crossovers: Troubadour worries, Nate ’n Al’s rescue, and Dean Delray’s late pivot

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:29

      Is the Troubadour still happening?

   2. JDJakob Dylan4:30

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:30

      I, I heard that the Troubadour was about to go under, then somebody rescued it.

   4. JDJakob Dylan4:33

      Oh, I don't know if you mean like right now because if-

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:35

      Yeah.

   6. JDJakob Dylan4:35

      I don't know if, I, I don't know if they're, what they're gonna do.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:37

      Yeah, 'cause I know Bill Burr was real worried about that. He loves that place 'cause he was trying-

   8. JDJakob Dylan4:40

      Well then he should go in and buy it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:42

      Maybe he will. He might.

   10. JDJakob Dylan4:43

       Somebody bought Nate 'n Al's. You know Nate 'n Al's?

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       Yeah, they did?

   12. JDJakob Dylan4:45

       They closed that down. They shut that down and somebody rescued that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       Oh. Well, that's good.

   14. JDJakob Dylan4:50

       So Bill needs to go rescue the Troubadour.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       He may.

   16. JDJakob Dylan4:53

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       I don't know. He's a cautious fellow-

   18. JDJakob Dylan4:55

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       ... when it comes to, like, investments and stuff, like he's a wealthy guy that pretends he's not. (laughs)

   20. JDJakob Dylan5:01

       That's smart.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       Yeah, it is smart. He's, he is smart. And we were talking about how, uh, Bill has your friend Dean Delray opening for him which is hilarious that you know Dean from the music days.

   22. JDJakob Dylan5:09

       Yeah, I've known Dean for, oh, more than 25 years or so.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:13

       He's a good-

   24. JDJakob Dylan5:13

       He was, well, he was always a great entertainer and always a funny guy and he, I know you know him as well. I was not surprised that he decided to be a stand-up, but, um, I guess you made me aware that it's surprising to do that in your early 40s.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       It's real odd, yeah, for someone to take a chance like that and shift careers because, y- it's a risk. It's a giant risk.

   26. JDJakob Dylan5:32

       Why, how so?

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       Well, y- you know, it might not work and-

   28. JDJakob Dylan5:36

       Right, you're saying if you try it in your 20s and it didn't work you got time to go do something else.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:39

       Yeah, or you have time to make it happen, you know?

   30. JDJakob Dylan5:42

       Yeah.
4. 6:23 – 7:47

   First Wallflowers album in years and why Jakob made a documentary instead

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:23

      Yeah. Um, this new album, when was the last time you guys had an album?

   2. JDJakob Dylan6:29

      2012.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:30

      Wow.

   4. JDJakob Dylan6:32

      Yeah, but, you know, I, I did not anticipate... I didn't even... I mean, time flies.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:36

      Yeah, it does.

   6. JDJakob Dylan6:36

      I didn't realize that. But I, you know, I, I tour every year, so I don't have, you know, far enough along where I, I don't need to worry so much about making records all the time if I'm not focused or have the ideas. So, y- y- if you're not paying attention, you just keep touring and touring and, you know. Uh, I did... And then I did, did a movie as well, a documentary, which had a soundtrack in between that, the Echo In The Canyon movie, which was, uh, an interview where we, we spoke to a lot of people who were around in the mid '60s, particularly '65 and '66, the bands who went to Laurel Canyon.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      Oh, wow.

   8. JDJakob Dylan7:08

      So that took a long time to do, and we interviewed people like Eric Clapton and, uh...

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:12

      And this was your project?

   10. JDJakob Dylan7:13

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       What- what made you... What was the motivation to do something like that?

   12. JDJakob Dylan7:18

       Uh, well, you just... If you don't take a minute, you'll just keep doing it. You gotta get off the treadmill at some point, you know. And I've been making... My first record was 1992.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:26

       Wow.

   14. JDJakob Dylan7:27

       So, uh, you know, wanted to do something different. And I think it actually took too long to do something different, you know. But those take a long time. Documentaries don't really have scripts, you know, they just unravel. So you just have to keep going until... It, it changes, the story keeps changing as you go, and then you need to go out and talk to this person to fill in that blank, you know. You gotta keep doing that, and before you know it, it took three years.

5. 7:47 – 12:11

   Laurel Canyon in 1965: super-bands, fragile chemistry, and the ‘covert ops’ rabbit hole

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:47

      So, who was in the Laurel Canyon scene in, in the 1960s? Hendrix was there, right?

   2. JDJakob Dylan7:53

      He may have passed through. He's not a... No, he's not an L- an L- LA art- like, a Laurel Canyon artist.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:57

      I thought he had a place in Laurel Canyon for a while.

   4. JDJakob Dylan7:59

      He may have. I mean, we really zeroed in on one year, like '65 with Buffalo Springfield and The Byrds.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:03

      Wow.

   6. JDJakob Dylan8:04

      You know, these people getting together with so much talent in one group. When... That dream didn't last, I... None of those groups were able to stay together. But it's not about Laurel Canyon in its entirety. It's people working... They wondered where Joni Mitchell was or Frank Zappa, but that was a different experience. And, you know, Carole King, that's all down the line a little bit later. That's more of the singer-songwriter era. And someone can make that. I re- I recommend Ken Burns makes that documentary, because that's gonna be, like, a long one. And we didn't get into the- the- the- the, uh, the riots in the Sunset Strip and all that. It was really about one year specifically.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:38

      Why, why that year?

   8. JDJakob Dylan8:40

      Just 'cause it was, like, when these bands, like, you know, you got Buffalo Springfield, you got Neil Young, you got Stephen Stills in the same group together, you know. Like, that wasn't gonna last-

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:48

      Right.

   10. JDJakob Dylan8:48

       ... just two giants in the same space. So, they were kind of figuring out what groups could do. I don't think anybody imagined having jobs very long. I don't think anybody was, you know, looking at each other's paychecks yet and noticing how these... the dream is not gonna probably stay together too long. Um, but that was... That's what we found to be interesting. Really, if you wanted a documentary about Laurel Canyon, it's... I'm not go- I wouldn't be capable of doing. It's too large.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JDJakob Dylan9:10

       In, in its entirety, you know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:11

       It's probably something that you'd have to do for multiple shows, right? Like a Netflix-style series.

   14. JDJakob Dylan9:17

       Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       Yeah.

   16. JDJakob Dylan9:18

       You could, you could, you absolutely could. There's a lot of different eras up there.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:21

       And-

   18. JDJakob Dylan9:22

       And there's also the CIA, there's all kinds of shit you can get into up there.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:24

       Oh, yeah.

   20. JDJakob Dylan9:24

       I mean, it's not just the music.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       Have you read that book, Chaos? Uh, the Tom O'Neill book about the Manson Family?

   22. JDJakob Dylan9:30

       No.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       It's all about the CIA, and-

   24. JDJakob Dylan9:32

       Got it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:32

       ... about the CIA infiltrating the hippie culture-

   26. JDJakob Dylan9:36

       Oh, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       ... and literally supplying acid to the Manson Family.

   28. JDJakob Dylan9:40

       Yeah. Well, I know you like a good conspiracy.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       Oh, I love a good conspiracy.

   30. JDJakob Dylan9:44

       I mean, that's... You know, the hippie movement, you, you might say that was dumbing down America intentionally. I mean, there's, there's a lot of conspiracy in that.
6. 12:11 – 15:42

   How rock culture flipped: 1950s vs 1960s, ‘no bad influences yet,’ and early rockstar expectations

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:11

      Well, it's, uh, it was a strange time if you ch- connect, like, the '50s and then the '60s. The, the, the contrast of this, the style of the country, like just the culture, it was so radically different. And the music is the best representation of that. Music and films. Like, music of the '50s versus the music of the '60s is a giant monumental shift.

   2. JDJakob Dylan12:37

      Yeah. Well, of course, well, it was brand new.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:38

      Yeah.

   4. JDJakob Dylan12:38

      That's why most of those bands were good. They weren't, they didn't have any bad influences yet.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:42

      Oh.

   6. JDJakob Dylan12:43

      I mean, uh, not to name names. You get further down the line, I mean, y- you know, as much as you might love David Bowie, he also is responsible for, like, influencing a lot of stuff that you don't like. You know, because it becomes harder and harder to find your influences and you're, you're having to sift through the muck of not only just bad influences, but bad equipment, bad guitars, bad microphones. This all starts to change and it becomes instead of a, "I got four choices in front of me to listen to and they're all really good," to, "Now I got 20 choices," it gets, becomes more difficult to figure out which stuff is just clouding up your influences. But anybody around in the '50s, that's why you get those compilations. Why, why was everybody so good?

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:18

      Hm.

   8. JDJakob Dylan13:19

      Because they just didn't have any bad influences yet. They were all listening to the same stuff and it was all really good.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:24

      That's an interesting perspective. So it was, like, fresh and it's almost like they didn't have a chance to fuck it up yet.

   10. JDJakob Dylan13:32

       Yeah. They didn't. I mean, it's kinda interesting if you think about it. I mean, even the most mildly talented person, if they were only listening to great stuff, they'd probably be pretty good just because their sources are so good. And they were so close to the source. I mean, rock and roll was so, in the '50s, it was brand new. By even the early '60s, uh, it still, like, you don't have... I mean, I've been making records for almost 30 years.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:52

       Wow.

   12. JDJakob Dylan13:53

       If you're starting out in 1960, like, 30 years is from the '30s, like, there was nothing for them to be running around doing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       That's a great point. I never thought of it that way. That is a great point. And then you also have to take into consideration that a, a genuine rockstar was a, literally a decade old.

   14. JDJakob Dylan14:11

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:11

       There was no real rockstars. Well, you had, you had Buddy Holly, you had Elvis, you had a few, Chuck Berry-

   16. JDJakob Dylan14:17

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:17

       ... Little Richard. You had a few rockstars.

   18. JDJakob Dylan14:19

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       And then, uh, in the 1960s, that, that, that concept was little more than a decade old.

   20. JDJakob Dylan14:27

       Yeah, and it seemed like a good option at that point.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:29

       Fuck yeah.

   22. JDJakob Dylan14:29

       What if you could be, minus the plane crash, what if you could be one of those guys, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:33

       Yeah.

   24. JDJakob Dylan14:33

       Yeah. But I think when they were s- I mean, how big of, how big could Buddy Holly's dreams have really been? I mean, no one had-

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       Right.

   26. JDJakob Dylan14:39

       I mean, he w- was he 22? I mean, like, no one has-

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:41

       Right.

   28. JDJakob Dylan14:42

       No one knew h- uh, uh, the idea of having any job, I mean, I've had my job for 30 years. That's amazing for anybody to have any line of work for that long. So you go back to those guys starting, I can't imagine anybody wondered what kind of records we would make in the '60s and the '70s. I mean, I can't imagine any, any kind of foresight.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       Yeah, that's a really good point. It's, uh, imagine if that guy was still alive.

   30. JDJakob Dylan15:04

       You know, he wouldn't be as old as you think if he was still alive. That's-
7. 15:42 – 19:17

   Growing up as Bob Dylan’s son, LA in the ’80s, and the ‘pay-to-play’ club trap

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:42

      Yeah. It's, uh, it's, it's, it is really interesting the history of rockstars. Like, it had to be, it, it's gotta be a weird thing growing up being the son of literally one of the greatest musicians of all time. How, how weird is that?

   2. JDJakob Dylan16:00

      (laughs) You have to be maybe a little more specific. How weird?

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:04

      Your dad?

   4. JDJakob Dylan16:04

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:05

      Yeah, how, what is it like?

   6. JDJakob Dylan16:05

      Yeah, no, no, I know, I know who he is. No, I know that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:07

      (laughs) But I mean, what is it like? I mean, it's gotta be fucking bizarre.

   8. JDJakob Dylan16:11

      Well, it's all you know. It's all you know.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      It's all you know, but in contrast to w- what other people know. It's, it's gotta be very strange.

   10. JDJakob Dylan16:17

       I don't think it's strange. I never thought it was. I mean, it's, I, I'm a- I was always aware it was different from the guy next to me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Right.

   12. JDJakob Dylan16:22

       But I thought his life was probably pretty weird too. I mean, somebody's dad being a, uh, an oral surgeon was strange to me.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       Right.

   14. JDJakob Dylan16:29

       You know? But I also grew up in the '80s. It was a little bit different then. And, you know, and kids didn't really care. My friends, uh, m- uh, the people I was growing up with didn't know or care about that stuff.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       That's interesting.

   16. JDJakob Dylan16:37

       That's not till later, really. You saw people's parents act weird around you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       Oh, wow.

   18. JDJakob Dylan16:41

       But kids didn't care.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       No kid... That's strange. Wow.

   20. JDJakob Dylan16:45

       Well, I'm also talking about LA.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:46

       Yeah.

   22. JDJakob Dylan16:47

       So...

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       Well, LA in the '80s was such a, it was a Guns N' Roses fuck fest, right? It was just like crazy.

   24. JDJakob Dylan16:52

       That's late '80s. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       (laughs) Well, I was, uh, yeah, I guess so, right? That was like '87, '88-

   26. JDJakob Dylan17:00

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       ... the Guns N' Roses era.

   28. JDJakob Dylan17:02

       Yeah. That's a, yeah, that's the little dip, that's, that was a quick, short era.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Well, it was a weird era, right? All of a sudden everyone was wearing makeup and teasing their hair like a girl. It was like-

   30. JDJakob Dylan17:11

       You know, I honestly didn't see much of that. I, I only went to the Sunset Strip one time. I didn't grow up too far from there. Uh, and I still can't really dis- I mean, uh, if it was like that every night, like, Jesus, like, I, I never saw that. Uh, it wasn't the music I listened to or the f- none of the fashion. Any of that stuff appealed to me. But they took over that street, and it was literally like the, the, the street was just nothing but paper flyers and it was, uh, it was pretty something, pretty wild.
8. 19:17 – 24:11

   Scenes collide: glam metal saturation, New York’s punk alternative, and Nirvana’s culture-reset

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:17

      Yeah. Wow. Well, that time period was almost over-saturated, right?

   2. JDJakob Dylan19:26

      Uh, well, f- in LA?

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:27

      Yeah.

   4. JDJakob Dylan19:28

      Or just in general? Uh, well, certainly that scene was... I think that was, that was the Mecca. That's... People came from all across the country and they're, and they're...

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:35

      That was the dream. I mean, literally-

   6. JDJakob Dylan19:37

      That was the dream. You gotta go to LA.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:37

      ... Welcome to the Jungle, the, the video, right?

   8. JDJakob Dylan19:39

      Yeah. Well, you had to have... Yeah, yeah, you had to have a scene. I mean, Guns N' Roses is really, that's a... That's the end of it, really. That's... Well, maybe it was still around, but I don't consider that group to be part of that. They were really a, a fantastic group. They still are, but that... The scene I'm talking about, and I think anybody who saw it would also agree, like, that's... They weren't really a part of that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:56

      Who was a part of that?

   10. JDJakob Dylan19:59

       A lot of bands with two X's in their names. A lot of, you know, a lot of-

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:02

       Two X's?

   12. JDJakob Dylan20:03

       Yeah, you know, mid... A lot of bands misspelled. I don't know. I mean, I kinda want... I mean, it was more on the model of groups like Poison, which I'm sure you're aware of.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:09

       Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   14. JDJakob Dylan20:09

       That was the look, that was the sound, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:11

       Yeah.

   16. JDJakob Dylan20:12

       And it, there's... There was good music for some people. I mean, some people still love those songs. I mean, that's not what I'm talking about. It was just the scene was pretty crazy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       And that scene was... That was the dominant scene in Hollywood, right? It did, did it very much? Was there other styles of music that was coming out of that area?

   18. JDJakob Dylan20:27

       I think so. I think if you went east, you had, you had LA grou-... Well, I mean, LA's had great... I mean, when I was a kid out in LA, you had X and The Blasters. Y- you had exciting groups that I liked. And then I think there's also, there's Jane's Addiction later, there's other scenes out there. It wasn't just the Sunset Strip.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:41

       It is always fascinating when one area becomes responsible for a giant chunk of the culture, when it comes to, like, music culture. Like, that was one area. So it's not even a big area. You know, you think about Sunset Strip, if you're from out of town, and then you go down there and you drive two miles and it's over. You're like, "Oh, that's it, huh?"

   20. JDJakob Dylan20:59

       Yeah, and it was just really that... And it's funny you mention that. I wonder if you went to New York in 1986, did they have... I never heard of it. Did they have a glam scene?

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       I don't think they did.

   22. JDJakob Dylan21:07

       I mean, why... Only LA seemed to have that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:10

       Yeah.

   24. JDJakob Dylan21:10

       And everybody, everybody got in their trucks and drove out to LA to be a part of it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:13

       Well, L- New York was different, right? It was a lot more punk. It was CBGB, it was, you know, the Cro-Mags. It was, it was a different kind of scene in New York, right?

   26. JDJakob Dylan21:22

       For sure. Well, I guess so.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:23

       It's a grittier place, I guess.

   28. JDJakob Dylan21:25

       Yeah, it's just funny. I don't know how they dodged that glam metal scene, but they, but they dodged it entirely it seems.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:29

       They kind of did.

   30. JDJakob Dylan21:30

       I think that if you were into that, you had to go to LA, I suppose.
9. 24:11 – 31:20

   Nostalgia, ‘lifestyle music,’ and Joe & Jakob’s deep dive into KISS

   1. JDJakob Dylan24:11

      No intoxicant like nostalgia.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:13

      Right. Yeah.

   3. JDJakob Dylan24:14

      I mean, it's the most powerful.

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:15

      Yeah.

   5. JDJakob Dylan24:15

      You're... Nobody's void of that. Do- doesn't matter.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:18

      ... it's, uh, it's fun to- to have a band that you used to be embarrassed about that's not embarrassing anymore too. Like-

   7. JDJakob Dylan24:25

      I never had that problem, to be honest.

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:27

      No?

   9. JDJakob Dylan24:27

      That's l- that's lifestyle bands. That's the people who, you know, when you were growing up, they'd put... They would either wear a shirt or a sticker on their notebook that is really, they just wanna tell you what kinda guy or girl they are.

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:36

       Yes.

   11. JDJakob Dylan24:36

       It's not really about the band. It's, you know, it's, it's r- kind of synonymous with the shirt you ch- you know, the, the jeans you're wearing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:41

       Right.

   13. JDJakob Dylan24:42

       Lifestyle music.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:43

       Yeah.

   15. JDJakob Dylan24:43

       And there were people when I grew up, I remember, you know, you couldn't like The Smiths if you also liked The Police. It's just like, you gotta pick a team. And that's just like so childish, and they, that's high school in general really.

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:52

       Yeah.

   17. JDJakob Dylan24:53

       But when you get older, I think you just, you realize, "Wait a second. You know what? I really did like Adam Ants, and I really did like, uh, I did like The Clash at the same time."

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       Yeah.

   19. JDJakob Dylan25:00

       "But I didn't realize I was allowed to do that."

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       Yeah, I loved Led Zeppelin, but I also loved KISS.

   21. JDJakob Dylan25:05

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       And KISS was the embarrassing one, and I had to hide it from people. (laughs)

   23. JDJakob Dylan25:09

       You know what, though? You're... I mean, I think we're pretty much the same age. That's the badge on everybody. I did not have a KISS phase. I mean, I've been around those, those people, and I, and I like them. And I, I see the merit in it, but I was not... That did not blow through my basement and, like, knock me out when I was a kid.

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       When I was really young, um, my Uncle Vinnie worked for Howard Marks Advertising, and they were the ones who did the album covers-

   25. JDJakob Dylan25:31

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       ... for KISS. So I met Ace Frehley when I was like... (gasps) I don't remember how old I was. I was pretty young, younger than 10, I guess probably, and he had no makeup on. I met him when he had no makeup on. Like, he came into the office with no... And no one knew what he looked like. And I'm like, uh, like I knew a secret.

   27. JDJakob Dylan25:48

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:48

       Like, as a 10-year-old, I knew some crazy secret. "I know what Ace Frehley looks like."

   29. JDJakob Dylan25:52

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       So because my uncle had introduced me to them at a young age, I was a fan, like, all through, like from 10 to all through-
10. 31:20 – 39:02

    Artists and social media: authenticity, pressure, and the attention-span arms race

    1. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       Now you, you're not... We were talking about this before the show, that you're not a social media person. You're, you're not interested in any of that stuff. But a lot of people use that as like, um, uh, to... As a thermometer to read the temperature of the audience to try to figure out what, what people like or what they don't like. That influence can either be beneficial, like you can learn something from your audience and get feedback and it can help you, or it can fuck you up. The way you developed without all that stuff, do you think that there is... Is it detrimental for artists to have that much interaction with, with people that are into them and to be doing like social media back and forth with fans?

    2. JDJakob Dylan32:09

       Uh, well, I would say first, if you enjoy doing it, you should do it. I don't... Like there's people not unlike myself who don't actually... They don't find the, the joy of it. And that's when I, I feel bad for people who engage in it who aren't genuinely just enjoying it because it is, it is something. And, uh, y- you know, for people like myself, if you just put up tour dates and record release stuff, like that's not interesting enough to people to really get that kind of traffic you're talking about. But is it detrimental? I don't know. I don't, I, I don't have a grip on it. I couldn't advise anybody. Again, if you like doing it, you should, but, you know, if you're not good at social media, uh, then maybe you won't get noticed. And I'll use, I'll use Prince again. What if Prince wasn't into it? You know, he was large enough that he'd probably get over anyhow, but he might stumble a while because people are expecting that format of the interaction, of closeness, of pretending to be friends, and maybe it wouldn't work for him.

    3. JRJoe Rogan32:59

       Is that expected of musicians today?

    4. JDJakob Dylan33:01

       Totally.

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Yeah. So is that like something that's written into with contracts? So they ask you to-

    6. JDJakob Dylan33:06

       No. Well, if you're young and you had a band that's really good, you know, don't... Before you send your demo tape to somebody or your link, you know, you got... They're gonna go to your Instagram and see how many followers you have.

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       Really?

    8. JDJakob Dylan33:15

       Because that's... You're doing... They wanna know you're gonna do the work with them.

    9. JRJoe Rogan33:18

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JDJakob Dylan33:18

        And I get that.

    11. JRJoe Rogan33:19

        Mm-hmm.

    12. JDJakob Dylan33:19

        If you got 100,000 followers, that's... That looks really good to a label that wants to... Might want to work with you.

    13. JRJoe Rogan33:23

        That means-

    14. JDJakob Dylan33:23

        That's a starting. It means you know what you're doing-

    15. JRJoe Rogan33:25

        You're moving.

    16. JDJakob Dylan33:25

        ... and you're... You know how to use social media, and it's a big asset. If your tape is really good and you got great music in it, look, you don't even have Insta media or you don't even... You have, you know, 200 followers. Like that looks bad.

    17. JRJoe Rogan33:36

        Interesting.

    18. JDJakob Dylan33:37

        And that might, that might hinder your chances of working with people.

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:40

        Do you think that would fuck you guys up if you started today? Like you're-

    20. JDJakob Dylan33:44

        Uh...

    21. JRJoe Rogan33:44

        Would you think you would adapt-

    22. JDJakob Dylan33:45

        I won't-

    23. JRJoe Rogan33:45

        ... and just change your approach?

    24. JDJakob Dylan33:46

        Maybe if I was 21 again, I'd... Maybe I'd enjoy it.

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:49

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JDJakob Dylan33:50

        You know what I mean? I don't know.

    27. JRJoe Rogan33:51

        But you don't have... Do you have anything?

    28. JDJakob Dylan33:53

        I mean, I got stuff. What do you mean?

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:55

        Do you have Instagram?

    30. JDJakob Dylan33:56

        (laughs)
11. 39:02 – 1:06:02

    Memoirs, Prince stories, and how comedians ‘drop in’ like musicians

    1. JDJakob Dylan39:02

       I do watch a lot of documentaries.

    2. JRJoe Rogan39:03

       Okay.

    3. JDJakob Dylan39:03

       I read a lot of, uh, uh, memoirs.

    4. JRJoe Rogan39:06

       Really?

    5. JDJakob Dylan39:06

       I like those. Yeah, I love music memoirs. I read most books, uh... I'm gonna give a shout-out right now. I don't know him. Richard Marx has a great new book I just picked up.

    6. JRJoe Rogan39:13

       Really?

    7. JDJakob Dylan39:14

       Yeah, reading it on the airplane yesterday.

    8. JRJoe Rogan39:15

       Oh.

    9. JDJakob Dylan39:16

       So he should know. He's a social media guy.

    10. JRJoe Rogan39:18

        Is he?

    11. JDJakob Dylan39:18

        Yeah. And he should know it's working. Countering everything I just said about my own shit.

    12. JRJoe Rogan39:23

        (laughs)

    13. JDJakob Dylan39:23

        His is working 'cause I picked up his book and I think it's great. It's very entertaining.

    14. JRJoe Rogan39:26

        What's it called?

    15. JDJakob Dylan39:29

        Oh, w-... Here he goes. Laptop. Jamie, you got it? Uh... Let's see. We're gonna put it up on the big screen? Stories to Tell. Stories to Tell. That it? Yeah. Uh, tweet... Sorry, the tweet's in blue. Yeah. That's what it's called. Well, 'cause I think anybody who's in my shoes, in any similar capacity, there's... They got a, they got an interesting story.

    16. JRJoe Rogan39:47

        There he is. Look at that.

    17. JDJakob Dylan39:48

        Is that live? Hey, man.

    18. JRJoe Rogan39:49

        Still got the messed up hair on purpose.

    19. JDJakob Dylan39:52

        Um.

    20. JRJoe Rogan39:53

        (laughs)

    21. JDJakob Dylan39:53

        But, you know, e- everybody who's, you know, came to LA p-... You know, to, to make it, they're... I find their, their stories are interesting. Or New York, wherever they went. You know?

    22. JRJoe Rogan40:01

        Yeah. Do you contrast those to your own story and just so... Does it give you a feeling of, like, just understanding that everybody's weird little path to try to get to where they are is different and...

    23. JDJakob Dylan40:11

        Well, absolutely. Yeah. And there's, uh... Well, what do you mean, more specific?

    24. JRJoe Rogan40:18

        I mean just that your business... Like-

    25. JDJakob Dylan40:20

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan40:20

        ... if you, if you're reading music memoirs, that is your business, and it's a strange business, right? And it's a business... It's very much like comedy in a way that, you know, you're off with your first footsteps and good luck. Who knows where this journey's gonna take you?

    27. JDJakob Dylan40:33

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan40:33

        And it's fascinating to me. I've read a, a bunch of comedians' memoirs or autobiographies or biographies on comics, and it's, uh, it's fascinating just because I can contrast those to my own life and just think about what... That this weird path that they went on. And I think of my own weird path and that it's, it's a wild world you're carving out when you're ch-

    29. JDJakob Dylan40:54

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan40:54

        ... carving a career in music or in comedy. You know?

Episode duration: 2:26:57