Joe Rogan Experience #1687 - Jimmy Dore

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays)

Narrator 0:12 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 0:12 It's always some extreme shit you and these-

Joe Rogan 0:14 I know, I know. This is the most extreme, though.

Jimmy Dore 0:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:17 This is the closest I've ever come to dying, I think-

Jimmy Dore 0:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:19 ... doing one of these things. I just don't know why d- I just- My friend, Jocko Willink, he sent me a video of his kid doing, uh, 20 minutes in, in the ice bath 'cause I, I, the first time I did it, I did it, I bailed at, like, a minute and a half. And I was like, "Oh my God, this is so cold." And then last night, I did it, and I got to four minutes and I was like, "I think I can go further."

Jimmy Dore 0:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:40 And so today, what I decided to do is set a timer. So when I set a timer, like, I had my phone timer on so I could look at the timer. And when I did that, I could stare, and I knew exactly how much time was past. And so I got to five minutes. Uh, that was my goal to get to five minutes. I was like, "Fuck it, let's go for 10." I got to 10, I was like, "Fuck it, 15." And I got to 15, and then I was like, "We're gonna go for 20."

Jimmy Dore 1:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01 And I got to 20 minutes. It's 33 degrees, too. I'm fucking freezing in there.

Jimmy Dore 1:04 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 1:05 And then when I got to 20 and I got out, like, I could barely walk. And then I was shivering the entire, shivering-

Jimmy Dore 1:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11 Like, hardcore shivering in my house, shivering all the way over here. It's 90 degrees in Texas. I'm driving, no AC on, windows rolled up, freezing, freezing. Normally, I'd be, like, sweating like a pig in there. I was freezing, shivering the entire, like, all the way, all the way over here. I got here-

Jimmy Dore 1:28 (laughs) I know.

Joe Rogan 1:28 ... I'm wearing this sweatshirt because-

Jimmy Dore 1:30 It's a (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 1:30 ... I had it laying around here. I put it on 'cause I was, I was freezing.

Jimmy Dore 1:33 Yeah, I just, uh, while you were doing that, I was, uh, hitting my snooze button.

Joe Rogan 1:37 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 1:37 I swear to God, that's what I was doing. Joe's right now in an ice bath trying to do another five minutes. I'm gonna do another five minutes, too.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Ugh.

Jimmy Dore 1:43 (laughs) I'm gonna do another-

Joe Rogan 1:43 I don't know who's doing the right thing. You might be doing the right thing. I may be torturing myself.

Jimmy Dore 1:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 I- it's, it's probably, like, a point of diminishing returns.

Jimmy Dore 1:50 (laughs) You would think.

Joe Rogan 1:50 It's probably, like, five minutes or something.

Narrator 1:52 You're very close to hypothermia, just so you know.

Joe Rogan 1:54 Oh, look at that.

Narrator 1:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:55 Mild hypothermia, 35 to 32 degrees, but is that your body? What?

Narrator 2:00 I, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:01 Moderate?

Narrator 2:01 I was just looking up, like, the symptoms, was the first couple things you were saying there, and I was like-

Joe Rogan 2:04 Shivering, yeah. Let me see what the s- the symptoms are. Exhaustion, no, I'm definitely not exhausted. The, uh-

Narrator 2:09 Yeah, you weren't those.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Confused. I'm confused as to why I did it.

Narrator 2:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:12 Fumbling hands, no. Memory loss, no. Slurred speech, no. Drowsiness, no. Um-

Narrator 2:17 Stuttering.

Joe Rogan 2:17 What's the difference between exhaustion and feeling tired or drowsiness? They're redundant. That seems a little re-

Narrator 2:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Right?

Narrator 2:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:24 The thing is the breathing exercises. If you deep breathe, I deep breathed through it. Like, uh, in the beginning, I was just kinda breathing normal, and then once it got real rough, I started doing these deep breathing exercises, like six seconds in and six seconds out, and then it was more tolerable.

Jimmy Dore 2:39 Yeah, it's amazing what people will do to... (laughs) You know, I was just, I was hanging by my thumbs for six hours. I'm like, "I can do it. Let's just do it. Let's see if I can do it." Uh, 'cause I s- my friend sent me a video of his kid hanging by his thumbs, and I was like, "I bet I can do it longer." Like, what is that? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:53 I don't know. I don't know.

Jimmy Dore 2:55 (laughs) I don't know what-

Joe Rogan 2:55 I don't know what I do. I don't, I just...

Jimmy Dore 2:57 (laughs) All this stuff, you guys, it's always like, "You can't, you can't eat but once every 36 hours."

Joe Rogan 3:01 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 3:01 "You gotta breathe through your nose, and then your, uh, your mouth will expand, and you'll have the right bite." And I'm like, "What is this?" All this crazy shit I never knew about.

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yeah, I've gotten this, like, uh, accidental education on this show, just wanting to talk, like James Nestor, the breathe guy who wrote that book.

Jimmy Dore 3:17 The guy who makes, makes the palate bigger?

Joe Rogan 3:18 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 3:19 Literally makes it... Did you do that?

Joe Rogan 3:20 No, I didn't do that.

Jimmy Dore 3:21 Oh, didn't do that.

Joe Rogan 3:22 No, I didn't do that. I do do the breathing exercises, but that's like a type of breathing. I think you're supposed to, mm, you're supposed to do something as you do it. What is that called, the mewing? Isn't it called mewing? There's like a thing that they say that people do to sort of expand your palate. It ch- it changes the inside of your mouth-

Jimmy Dore 3:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:40 ... somehow or another. Well, apparently our mouths, "Mewing is the placement of the tongue on the roof of the mouth, which proponents say can reshape the face and help correct orthodontic breathing and facial structural issues."

Jimmy Dore 3:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 3:52 "It was developed by an orthodontist named John Mew in the 1970s."

Jimmy Dore 3:56 So no- why don't more people do that? Why don't they teach that?

Joe Rogan 3:58 Why don't more people do a lot of things? There's a l- like, breathe- deep breathing exercises are phenomenal for your immune system. They're phenomenal for relaxation, for, uh, alleviate anxiety. There's a lot of different things that you can do that people don't do because they're hard.

Jimmy Dore 4:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:11 You know? It's like, we have to overcome the- I mean, that's the thing. It's like overcoming the, the, this sort of hesitancy to do things that are difficult.

Jimmy Dore 4:21 Well, that's the short term, long term, right? So-

Joe Rogan 4:24 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 4:24 ... you got- if you want a long-term gain or a short-term gain, and that's the whole, that's the whole point. That's the whole point of life, right? Like, you've, you've gotta be able to take pain, but I'll still... You know, I, I start, every time I put a mask on, I think of that episode where you talk about sniff- breathing through your nose.

Joe Rogan 4:39 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 4:39 'Cause if I breathe through my mouth with a mask on, I- it just sounds, it smells horrible.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Right. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 4:44 My breath, I never knew I had such bad breath. I'm like, "Wow." It's like, holy shit. Like, I'm farting out of my mouth.

Joe Rogan 4:49 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 4:50 This is hor- I cannot, I don't know how people wear masks all goddamn day. So even when I-

Joe Rogan 4:54 You really got to change masks, you know, like wash it.

Jimmy Dore 4:56 Even when I'm on the plane, I'll, like, I'll take the, like, a little, uh, blanket, and I'll put it over, and then I'll take my mask off 'cause I can't sit there like that.

Joe Rogan 5:02 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 5:04 I, I don't, I act like I'm like this-

Joe Rogan 5:06 Right.

Jimmy Dore 5:06 I can't do it. I can't. I don't know how people wear masks all- people who have to go to work and wear masks all day and they don't get paid double, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 5:14 It, it is crazy. And it's not healthy for you, I don't think.

Jimmy Dore 5:16 How could that be?

Joe Rogan 5:17 It can't be. I've, I've read or listened, rather, to this doctor describing masks, and he said there is a certain amount of viral load that the mask will filter out. He goes, "But essentially," he goes, "I wear a mask so that people don't think I'm an asshole."

Jimmy Dore 5:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:33 He said, "When you use a mask, it's essentially like a chain-link fence trying to stop a handful of sand." He goes, "Some of it will get stopped." He goes, but-

Jimmy Dore 5:43 Really?

Joe Rogan 5:44 Yeah, he goes, "But why do you wear a mask?" He goes, "You wear a mask so that people don't think you're an asshole and then people realize you care." Unless you're wearing a very tight-fitting N95 mask-

Jimmy Dore 5:54 Like what... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:54 ... you know, it's really sealed off. And then, like, how are you getting air in? You know, like, what, it's... You know, these things that, um-... um-

Jimmy Dore 6:02 Reggie Watts told us about. They're these, like, headgear things-

Joe Rogan 6:06 Yeah. Eh-

Jimmy Dore 6:06 ... that have a filter.

Joe Rogan 6:07 I've seen those.

Jimmy Dore 6:08 Yeah, we have those out there. They're like spaces-

Joe Rogan 6:10 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 6:10 ... suit helmets.

Joe Rogan 6:11 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 6:11 Those are legit.

Joe Rogan 6:12 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 6:12 Like that thing, you actually, like, tighten it on your neck and then-

Joe Rogan 6:14 Yeah. It's like an astronaut.

Jimmy Dore 6:15 Yeah. And then-

Joe Rogan 6:16 That's ... You know, Reggie was like, "This is what I'm gonna wear when I travel." I'm like, "Yeah, why not? You're a fucking wild dude." You know? (laughs) Like, Reggie Watts is wearing a space suit everywhere.

Jimmy Dore 6:24 I was gonna do that.

Joe Rogan 6:26 Why not?

Jimmy Dore 6:26 'Cause I, I had an offer to go to Italy, and I was gonna ... And I was like, well, I, I ... But I was afraid to risk, you know, getting sick. This was-

Joe Rogan 6:33 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 6:34 ... la- last year. And so, I ... And then, I, I decided ... And then I wasn't gonna go. And it was like, "No, you can't even travel to Italy. You can't go anywhere." And so everything got bad. But I think it's gonna ... Are you afraid about the, uh, dates?

Joe Rogan 6:45 There's Reggie. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 6:46 Yeah. Ah! That's it. Yeah, that's the thing. We have them outside. Look at Reggie. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:53 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 6:53 (claps hands) He's so wild. But aren't you afraid that, uh, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 6:56 Dates gonna get canceled-

Jimmy Dore 6:57 Yes.

Joe Rogan 6:57 ... is what you're saying? Yes, 100%.

Jimmy Dore 6:58 So it's all gonna start happen again.

Joe Rogan 6:59 Yes, I am. And I'm just accepting it. I'm just zen. I'm just, it is what it is, you know? It's not the worst thing that can happen, is dates get canceled. I've had a date scheduled for 4/20 in Vancouver for the past two years. It was supposed to be 4/20 of 2020-

Jimmy Dore 7:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:16 And now it's gonna be 4/20 of 2022.

Jimmy Dore 7:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:20 'Cause you can't even get there-

Jimmy Dore 7:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:22 You know, I mean, there's no ... Obviously, 4/21 is gone, and 4/20 ... Even f- ... They just op- ... They're opening up Canada in August, so it might not even happen then. So we're supposed to be in Vancouver.

Jimmy Dore 7:33 You mean Canada's not open right now?

Joe Rogan 7:35 Not really.

Jimmy Dore 7:35 Not like the United States?

Joe Rogan 7:35 I mean, you can kinda get in, but I think it's a big deal, and you have to quarantine. Uh, are they open to international travel? I think when you're a Canadian resident, like, uh, Matty Madison, uh, y- you know, the chef. He was here, and he said that he had to quarantine for two weeks when he went back.

Jimmy Dore 7:51 That's quite a name, Matty Madison. I-

Joe Rogan 7:53 He's a bad motherfucker.

Jimmy Dore 7:54 I always liked names like that, Chris Christie, Matty Madison.

Joe Rogan 7:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 7:57 That'd be like if I was Jimmy Jimmison.

Joe Rogan 7:59 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 7:59 (laughs) Hey, look, it's Joe Joeyson.

Joe Rogan 8:02 Uh- (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 8:02 How are you, Joey Joe?

Joe Rogan 8:03 Uh, it's a, it's a weird time, but it's ... It is what it is, you know? I mean, there's nothing you do about it, so I just accept it. So if dates get canceled, there's worse things.

Jimmy Dore 8:15 Yeah. All right. Well, it was good talking to you, Joe. I'm gonna take off.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Good talking to you too, see? (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 8:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:21 (sighs)

Jimmy Dore 8:21 That's ... It is what it is. All right. Take care. (sighs)

Joe Rogan 8:24 Good to see you, Jim.

Jimmy Dore 8:24 I mean, what can, what can you do?

Joe Rogan 8:26 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 8:26 You know, other than try to stay healthy. Try to stay healthy and- I've been ... Here's the weird thing. Uh, so I, uh ... Well, maybe I shouldn't say this. No, I won't say it.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Okay. I get it, yeah. Yeah, it's a w- it's a weird time when you talk about things openly, right? Because there's certain things that if you just discuss them honestly, people are gonna get furious at you.

Jimmy Dore 8:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:47 There's certain opinions that if you hold these opinions, people are gonna get furious at you.

Jimmy Dore 8:50 So to me, that's the worst, uh, byproduct of a Trump presidency, was that, uh, questions, aren't ... You're not allowed to question things.

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 8:59 You're not allowed to have certain thoughts.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Right.

Jimmy Dore 9:02 And if you have certain thoughts, like, y- you're, you're considered deplorable. You're the c- You're, you're-

Joe Rogan 9:07 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Dore 9:07 And it's like, it's real. That's a real thing-

Joe Rogan 9:10 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 9:10 ... happening. And just like, for instance, like, remember when, um, if you th- if you gave the theory that, uh, the virus started in a, in a lab-

Joe Rogan 9:19 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 9:19 ... that you were canceled, and that-

Joe Rogan 9:20 Right.

Jimmy Dore 9:20 ... was misinformation. And then, uh, Jon Stewart goes on Stephen Colbert (laughs) and does the funniest bit in the world about it. And-

Joe Rogan 9:28 Even though Colbert was trying to, like, hamstring-

Jimmy Dore 9:31 Oh, he was trying to ... Oh, he was trying ... He was doing the opposite of what com- comedians are supposed to do.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Right.

Jimmy Dore 9:34 He wasn't doing yes/and.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Right, right.

Jimmy Dore 9:36 So when Jon Stewart was being hilarious, he kept trying to take the legs out from underneath the bit.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Hi, I'd like to see some evidence, if you have any evidence I'd like to see it.

Jimmy Dore 9:42 How long have you, how long have you worked for Ron Johnson? It's like, what-

Joe Rogan 9:44 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 9:44 ... in the F are you doing? This guy's doing a brilliant comedy bit.

Joe Rogan 9:48 I know.

Jimmy Dore 9:48 And he is so shitlibbed, Stephen Colbert, his brain is so shitlibbed that he can't even go along with the bit. He has to break comedy rules to save his shitlib, uh, uh, reputation. And Jon Stewart at one point just walked away from him and went, uh, to- ... right towards the camera. You saw it.

Joe Rogan 10:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Dore 10:05 He's like, "I'm done with you."

Joe Rogan 10:06 Well, he just had to keep the momentum going, and he was being cockblocked.

Jimmy Dore 10:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:10 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 10:10 So everybody noticed that, right?

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah. Oh-

Jimmy Dore 10:11 It wasn't just me?

Joe Rogan 10:12 Every comic. Yeah. We noticed it-

Jimmy Dore 10:14 Okay, good.

Joe Rogan 10:14 ... for sure-

Jimmy Dore 10:14 All right.

Joe Rogan 10:15 ... 'cause we know that feeling once ... Like if you're-

Jimmy Dore 10:17 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 10:17 There's a heckler, and you're in the middle of a bit, you're gonna stop?

Jimmy Dore 10:20 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:20 You know, you walk away from the heckler and you walk to the rest of the room.

Jimmy Dore 10:22 That's what he did.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 10:24 And I ... You know, goddamn Stephen Colbert. He used to be my favorite.

Joe Rogan 10:29 He was amazing on The Daily Show, amazing.

Jimmy Dore 10:31 Well-

Joe Rogan 10:31 He was so good.

Jimmy Dore 10:32 And then when he-

Joe Rogan 10:33 And on The Colbert Show he was amazing.

Jimmy Dore 10:33 And on The Colbert ... I mean, that character he did-

Joe Rogan 10:36 Apparently he's gonna do that again.

Jimmy Dore 10:37 Really?

Joe Rogan 10:37 He's d- I don't know.

Jimmy Dore 10:38 I hope so.

Joe Rogan 10:38 I saw some video. He's going back to Comedy Central. There's some thing with him going back to Comedy Central. That character was fucking brilliant.

Jimmy Dore 10:45 And, and, and it was a brilliant show. Now, uh, uh, the show he does now is not as good as that show, not even close.

Joe Rogan 10:51 No. No.

Jimmy Dore 10:52 It's one of those surface-level conversation things. And then when someone does come in with something brilliant, he has to n- shut it down, because it might offend who oth- who knows who it might offend.

Joe Rogan 11:02 It ... The, the b- b- beautiful thing about those shows is it really helps guys like us.

Jimmy Dore 11:07 (laughs) Yes.

Joe Rogan 11:07 It really does.

Jimmy Dore 11:08 I know.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Because you can talk about things in long form and not be interrupted. Uh, Charlamagne Tha God and Stephen Colbert to launch late night TV talk show. I know that. This- is that what it is? Is that-

Narrator 11:18 That's what this says. This is how it's c- I mean, th- this article at least says that-

Joe Rogan 11:22 So Charlamagne-

Narrator 11:23 ... this is how he's coming back as being the producer of the show or something like that.

Joe Rogan 11:26 Oh, okay. Okay. Well-

Narrator 11:28 They haven't fully said, so ...

Joe Rogan 11:29 Charlamagne's awesome. That would be great.

Narrator 11:32 So we'll see.

Joe Rogan 11:32 That'll be great.

Narrator 11:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:33 That'll be great. But again, better if it's on the internet 'cause you don't get interrupted. Like, there's this thing where you're interrupting the flow of the conversation that it stops these ... Y- you know, I don't have to tell you, but for the people that are listening, your, your mind is ... When you're having these conversations with people, your mind is sort of going to, like, where does this go next, and what about this, and what about that? And you wanna listen to the person, but you also have some thoughts. You're waiting to interject. And all that stuff gets hamstrung-... when you have five minutes-

Jimmy Dore 12:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:04 ... and then you have to cut to commercial. And then also, you're working for a large corporation and there's, whether it's a spoken pressure or it's just a known pressure, particularly to adhere to these very distinct ideas that everybody's propagating, whatever those ideas are. And i- it's mostly these liberal leftist ideas that you're getting from these Hollywood studios. Whether they've thought through these things or not, it's like if you wanna work, you better adhere to these i- ideas and you better adhere to these, you, you better say these things.

Jimmy Dore 12:39 Yeah. I mean, uh, well, we all know that there was the letter th- to, that w- CAA sent to Tulsi Gabbard, right? We know, do you know about that? Right?

Joe Rogan 12:49 No.

Jimmy Dore 12:49 And they were like, when she wouldn't, um, back Hillary Clinton and, um, they sent... now this is going back years ago, so it's hard for me to remember. Uh, but, um, yeah, they were like threatening her like, "Hey, you better get on board with Hillary," and all this stuff. And, um, and it was from the CAA. And so-

Joe Rogan 13:08 This is from 2016?

Jimmy Dore 13:09 Yes, back then. And, um, I c- k- I ...

Joe Rogan 13:14 Is it available?

Jimmy Dore 13:15 Yeah, check it out. Can you, can you Google that? See if that, whatever comes up for that. But, um, ple- pretty please (laughs) so I'm not, so I'm not giving misinformation.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 13:24 But, um, you can't, uh... and that's the beauty of, uh, like YouTube, uh, or podcasts is because they don't, there's no gatekeeper.

Joe Rogan 13:33 Right.

Jimmy Dore 13:34 And so they don't, now they don't know how to control me, someone like me. Now I get to just say whatever I want all the time and it turns out there's a lot of people who like that and they like what I'm saying and that can't be controlled and they don't know what to do. So what they do is like, uh, they'll write hit pieces on you, right?

Joe Rogan 13:49 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 13:49 On me. They've done that, right? So like when I was pushing Force the Vote, I don't know if you know what that was.

Joe Rogan 13:53 Yeah. Sure. But explain it to people maybe who don't.

Jimmy Dore 13:55 So Force the Vote was, um- I'll let you do that. I'll bring it back up at some point. Okay. So Force the Vote was when, um, the, uh, uh, the pr- the Democrats got a majority in the House, but it was a very slim majority. It was like somewhere around 8, 9, 10 votes, something like that. It wasn't that many votes. And we realized that the, the squad, the Justice Democrats now had enough members that they couldn't elect the speaker without their votes. So if they s- withheld their votes, Nancy Pelosi could not become speaker. And so, uh, everybody had always thought that getting a vote on the floor of the House for Medicare for All was a big goal of the left just to get a vote. Nancy Pelosi's been called, said in 1994, "We should have a vote for single payer." And of course, uh, AOC said, uh, famously that, "We can't even get a vote." She was lamenting. She's saying the Democratic Party is a center right party and we can't even get a vote on Medicare for All. Well, here's a way you can get it. You can withhold your vote from Nancy's... You use leverage just like the Tea Party did. They're called the Freedom Caucus. They drove John Boehner crazy to the point where he stepped down because they couldn't pass anything without their votes, the Freedom Caucus. Same thing right now. Uh, the, all the leverage is in the hands of that squad. And they could use it, but they refuse to do it. And so I put it, made a push for them to do this. And it was obvious they didn't wanna do it. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 15:14 What, what do you think is holding them back? Is there...

Jimmy Dore 15:17 So I th- so there's a, uh, uh, I think it's w- what's going on is that, uh, you know, as Chris Hedges says, you know, uh, "Politics attracts the most mediocre people to begin with." And they're, you know, mo- they're narcissists and they're self-dealers. And so once they got power, uh, they realized, I, uh, I don't want, I don't really wanna go against the establishment 'cause I don't wanna feel the wrath of the establishment. I don't wanna feel the wrath of Wall Street, the military industrial complex, big pharma and all that, and the party coming down on me. Because if you're in Congress, you know you're gonna get speaking fees, you're gonna... right? Speaking gigs.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 15:50 You're gonna get a book deal.

Joe Rogan 15:52 Right.

Jimmy Dore 15:52 You're, you're, uh, and you're... and if you're in Congress for five years, you get a pension for the rest of your life.

Joe Rogan 15:56 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Dore 15:57 So these people do not wanna upset the apple cart like they ran on. They ran on... literally AOC was saying that we need, cause a ruckus and they don't wanna be pushed, but we have to push them and we have to stop being polite. That's what she said.

Joe Rogan 16:10 So you think they get into office and then all the benefits of being in office-

Jimmy Dore 16:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 16:16 ... then start to-

Jimmy Dore 16:17 And they get-

Joe Rogan 16:17 ... show themselves and they get a little bit tempted by that.

Jimmy Dore 16:19 And so right now, if, if you voted for people in the squad, they've been going along with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden 100%. They said they gave Joe Biden an A. That's was, that was this progressives giving Joe Biden a... (laughs) Joe Biden who's not doing anything he campaigned on. He campaigned on, uh, the public option. We're not getting the public option for healthcare. He cam, he campaigned on a $15 minimum wage. We're not getting a $15 minimum wage. We're not getting it at all. And they, and by the way, so the squad could use their leverage to make him do these things and to, uh, decriminalize marijuana. He's doing, he's going the other way. He is ramping up the drug war again.

Joe Rogan 16:52 But doesn't Sh- isn't Schumer trying to push legalizing?

Jimmy Dore 16:55 Isn't that something?

Joe Rogan 16:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 16:56 But Chuck Schumer is too progressive for Joe Biden. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:00 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 17:00 That's it. The, the biggest tool of Wall Street, that's why Chuck Schumer is the leader, by the way. Chuck Schumer's not the leader because he's a leader that people wanna follow. Chuck Schumer's the leader because Wall Street gives him the most cash that he then divvies out to the rest of the senators. And that's why he's the leader, because they need his cash and he's the biggest puppet of Wall Street. But that's why Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are president and vice president. Wall Street first picked Kamala Harris on Martha's Vineyard. There, that was her, their first pick. They thought they had another Obama, because if you remember, Obama was the darling of Wall Street. In fact, his entire cabinet came from an email that was g- given to him from Citigroup. We now know that from WikiLeaks, right? So and everybody in that email from Citigroup ended up in Barack Obama... Barack Obama got more money from Wall Street than John McCain when he ran. People forget that. So they're the ones who are choosing who our president and vice president are. We don't have real elections. We get select-ance. We have selections, right? So they picked, uh, Kamala Harris. Turns out Kamala Harris couldn't get a goddamn vote. She couldn't get a vote or a, or a delegate. Nobody liked her. So, uh, they switched-

Joe Rogan 18:01 Well, Tulsi Gabbard kind of put the, the screws in the back, right?

Jimmy Dore 18:04 He hurt her. She hurt her. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Yeah. She hurt her bad in that debate.

Jimmy Dore 18:07 But I mean, it was, I, I mean, I think Kamala Harris was just transparent. I think people saw she was nothing and she... anyway...So they went to their next person, their next most reliable guy. Who's that? Joe Biden is the most reliable guy from Wall Street. He's the guy who criminalized bankruptcy. He made it f- if you get medical debt, now you can't get rid of it. I mean, he did everything he could for, for Wall Street and he's done it. He's no friend of the working man, Joe Biden, obviously. And so that's how we got Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. They're Wall Street's number one and number two. And that's what happens, and so, uh, we don't have elections, we do have selections, and this idea that voting Democrat... You know, Joe Biden, you hear... I was told that you have to, uh, vote for Joe Biden because of kids in cages. Well, the kids are still in cages, Joe. I don't know if you know that, but I guess they should be honored that they are being caged by the lesser of two evils.

Joe Rogan 18:54 Well, you can't film them now, which is very strange. Where they try to stop people from filming them.

Jimmy Dore 18:59 So it's just censorship now.

Joe Rogan 19:01 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 19:01 That's all they have now-

Joe Rogan 19:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 19:02 ... left is censorship.

Joe Rogan 19:03 This just... It's so disheartening to see the left advocating for censorship-

Jimmy Dore 19:08 Yes.

Joe Rogan 19:08 ... instead of pushing the correct ideas.

Jimmy Dore 19:11 Well, it's-

Joe Rogan 19:11 Instead of, i- instead of, like, having open debates about these ideas to prove their point or to argue their point, they wanna silence the opposing point of view. And where, where we're seeing the problem with this-

Jimmy Dore 19:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:22 ... clearly what you just described earlier with the lab leak theory. The lab leak theory under Trump was something that they wanted to suppress, so if you pushed that lab leak theory, if you even discussed it on Facebook, they yanked it.

Jimmy Dore 19:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 19:33 They took it down. But now, they're saying it's the most likely scenario and even Fauci is forced to admit that this is a possibility, you know? And that, that weird conversation that he had with Rand Paul where he's saying that it's molecularly impossible according to the data from China. Like, hey, when, when, when did we start listening to the data from China as being w- 100% accurate? That's... This is crazy talk.

Jimmy Dore 19:57 Fau- Fauci. He sounds like a used car salesman. He's like, "That's not gain-of-func-... This is the definition," right?

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 20:02 "That's not what I have people qualified up and down-"

Joe Rogan 20:04 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 20:05 "... the line." What? You mean people qualified that you handpicked?

Joe Rogan 20:08 Yeah, that's the problem.

Jimmy Dore 20:08 He just goes, "People qualified up and down the... At, at... Uh, yeah, up... That you picked that rely on you to get a jo-" And, of course, he... The sound bite out of that was, "You don't know what you're talking about."

Joe Rogan 20:18 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 20:18 That was the soundbite that all the pe- that got played. Play the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 20:22 Well, that's the weird thing is that, uh, there's two narratives and there was the narrative from the right is that Rand Paul called him out and proved that he was not telling the truth about gain-of-function research. And then this, the narrative on the left was Fauci owns Rand Paul.

Jimmy Dore 20:36 (laughs) Yes. Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:37 And just, like, Jesus Christ, you guys are like little kids.

Jimmy Dore 20:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:39 He owned him? Like, is that what it is? He, he s- he scolded him? He told him?

Jimmy Dore 20:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:44 He told him what not? Is that what happened?

Jimmy Dore 20:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:46 Like, it's-

Jimmy Dore 20:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:47 ... so strange.

Jimmy Dore 20:48 Well, the first time, not this last time, but the first time I saw Rand Paul giving it to, uh, Fauci about gain of function, he mentioned the doctor's name. He said, "So, y-... T- t- Bla-... Dr. Joe Bla-

Joe Rogan 21:00 Peter Datzak?

Jimmy Dore 21:00 Yeah, whatever the name was.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 21:01 He said, "That's not gain of function."

Joe Rogan 21:03 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 21:03 And Fauci goes, "No, that's not gain of function and if it is, it's being done under the right regula-" Like, you can't-

Joe Rogan 21:08 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 21:08 ... have it both ways.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Right.

Jimmy Dore 21:09 He co- contradicted himself right there.

Joe Rogan 21:12 Right.

Jimmy Dore 21:12 "That's not gain of function what he's doing, but if it is, it's being done correctly." What the eff? So he's being like a politician. He's being like, "Oh, come on. You got... Buy this new... It's an '84 Corolla. It's really good and..."

Joe Rogan 21:23 But it's so strange that this has become a political issue when you, you're literally talking about the possibility, and I'm just saying the possibility because obviously I don't know, that the research that was funded by the NIH through that... What was it?

Jimmy Dore 21:38 Echo, Echo Watch.

Joe Rogan 21:39 ... Echo health... What is it called?

Jimmy Dore 21:40 EchoHealth Alliance?

Joe Rogan 21:41 Right, EchoHealth Alliance produced this virus. The people-

Jimmy Dore 21:45 Well, we don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:46 We don't know, but this is the possibility that needs to be investigated.

Jimmy Dore 21:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:49 Three people from that lab were sick in November-

Jimmy Dore 21:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:52 ... of 2019, and one of their spouses wound up dying.

Jimmy Dore 21:55 Right, and now people are saying that that's all CIA ops, that that's... The CIA's making or leaking that story because they want to s- uh, advance the cold war with China. Now, the CIA-

Joe Rogan 22:05 Does that make any sense?

Jimmy Dore 22:07 Does the CIA want a cold war with... The establishment want a cold war with China? Yes. Uh, but you can't then turn your eye to science. Just because-

Joe Rogan 22:15 Right.

Jimmy Dore 22:15 ... so, uh, would this serve their narrative? Yeah. But at the same time, you can't just... So they kee-... I remember the former head of the CDC was on CNN with Dr. Sanjay Gupta and he said that his theory was it was started in a lab.

Joe Rogan 22:28 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 22:29 Uh, he said, "But it doesn't matter what my opinion is." He said, "Science is gonna figure this out."

Joe Rogan 22:33 And they went after him.

Jimmy Dore 22:34 Well, yeah, but how-

Joe Rogan 22:35 Which is amazing.

Jimmy Dore 22:35 Right. It's like he said, "It's my opinion." Why...

Joe Rogan 22:38 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 22:38 And now Fauci shares that same opinion, and-

Joe Rogan 22:41 Right.

Jimmy Dore 22:41 ... and s- so, uh, but how long does this take for science to figure out?

Joe Rogan 22:46 This is why partisans... So, like, censorship is so dangerous. It's one of the reasons why censorship is so dangerous, but it's also while these... While, why having these ideas that go against the par-... Uh, if you're objectively looking at the facts, you have to ignore some of them because they don't go along with the party line.

Jimmy Dore 23:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:05 That's scary to me.

Jimmy Dore 23:05 That's scary.

Joe Rogan 23:06 That's really scary because then you're getting into self-censorship because people-

Jimmy Dore 23:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:09 ... are afraid.

Jimmy Dore 23:10 People are self-censor.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Yeah, yes.

Jimmy Dore 23:11 I'm self-censoring on this show right now.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well-

Jimmy Dore 23:14 I mean, stuff we were talking about out there.

Joe Rogan 23:16 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Dore 23:16 I, I, I... You don't know what's going, what's, what's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 23:18 Right.

Jimmy Dore 23:19 And right now, I just saw a thing where they're... Uh, PayPal is hooking up with the ADL and, to suppress people who are doing bad speech. So if they... The ADL, that's the, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:31 Anti-Defamation League.

Jimmy Dore 23:33 ... Anti-Defamation League.

Joe Rogan 23:33 So PayPal is hooking up with them so that if you-

Jimmy Dore 23:35 So I just saw this today. I-

Joe Rogan 23:36 So you can't use PayPal if you say something that they don't agree with? Like, what is bad speech?

Jimmy Dore 23:41 You tell me, but you know how they're doing that. If they don't like what you say-

Joe Rogan 23:44 Here it is.

Jimmy Dore 23:45 What's this? PayPal to research-

Joe Rogan 23:46 Hate groups and extremists.

Jimmy Dore 23:46 ... transactions that fund hate groups.

Joe Rogan 23:48 But didn't they label Sam Harris as a extremist?

Jimmy Dore 23:51 So that's the problem.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 23:52 So then once you start letting some jagoffs, uh, decide who's an extremist and who isn't... You know, I... Who I think is an extremist? I think Joe Biden is an extremist. Right now Joe Biden, while he's denying people healthcare in America and a living wage, is bombing the poorest people in Africa right now, Somalia. Do you know 50% of Somalia are nomads?... and we're bombing that goddamn country.

Joe Rogan 24:13 What, what's going on in Somalia? I'm not aware of this at all.

Jimmy Dore 24:13 You tell me why we're bomb ... I don't know. There must be some oil there or maybe batteries, lithium. Who knows? There's something there.

Joe Rogan 24:18 I'm not even aware of this.

Jimmy Dore 24:19 Yeah. He just started bombing, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:21 Is this today?

Jimmy Dore 24:22 No. It was last week. I did a story on it already. It's up on my channel.

Joe Rogan 24:24 Your fucking show is fantastic, by the way.

Jimmy Dore 24:26 Oh, please keep saying that. Please say that again (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 24:28 I love it.

Jimmy Dore 24:30 That's very sweet.

Joe Rogan 24:30 I watch it, I watch it all the time. You're, you're a true independent, you know? You're, you're really allowed to say your full opinion on your show and the way you do it is, uh, it's very brave. And I, I love the fact that there's a platform ... Like, you know, as much shit as people talk about YouTube, and I don't agree with their censorship at all, but I think what's ... One, part of the problem with YouTube is they're managing it scale, right? There's fucking-

Jimmy Dore 24:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:55 ... millions and millions-

Jimmy Dore 24:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:56 ... of videos coming in. And who's doing it?

Jimmy Dore 24:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:58 It's arbitrary and it's, it's, it's subjective. You have people working for them that are choosing what gets banned and what doesn't gets banned, and then they have to come in and clean up the mess. We've had many of our shows, when we were on YouTube, that were demonetized.

Jimmy Dore 25:11 Demonetized.

Joe Rogan 25:11 But then a lot of them, when we, when we challenged it, someone else looked at it and said, "No. These are okay."

Jimmy Dore 25:17 Yeah, but it's too late.

Joe Rogan 25:18 And they let it through. It's too late. So you lose all your income.

Jimmy Dore 25:19 So you've already got all your views, and so now-

Joe Rogan 25:21 Right.

Jimmy Dore 25:21 ... you're not gonna get any revenue off it.

Joe Rogan 25:22 It's th- I mean, that's where self-censorship comes in. So whether or not there's, like, this gigantic plot to self ... make people self-censor, whether this is planned out, I, I tend to think it's b- it's a little bit of both. I think more than that, it's managing at scale. I don't think YouTube's an evil company. I think they're dealing with fucking insane amounts of volume.

Jimmy Dore 25:43 I totally understand why they're doing what they're doing. I ... Because the-

Joe Rogan 25:48 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 25:48 ... independent news space causes a lot of problems for their revenue model and they've, they get all this bad press from the establishment press-

Joe Rogan 25:56 Right.

Jimmy Dore 25:56 ... because the independent news s- uh, space on YouTube is direct competition to the establishment media.

Joe Rogan 26:02 Right.

Jimmy Dore 26:02 So what happens is they write all these hit pieces about how YouTube independent, uh, news people, how they're all radicals and crazy and they're poisoning your kids' minds and making them radical. And they, I mean-

Joe Rogan 26:12 No.

Jimmy Dore 26:12 They did, they did articles where they stuck me in with Nazis and pedophiles and the Jimmy Dore Show saying the stuff about the, uh, Syria is false flags. Turns out I was 100% right. That still sits in my Wikipedia page. So the, that-

Joe Rogan 26:25 Does it really?

Jimmy Dore 26:25 Yes. They-

Joe Rogan 26:26 It still, it still ... It hasn't been amended?

Jimmy Dore 26:27 Wikipedia is a totally controlled ... You cannot get the true ... Especially if you're antiwar. If you're antiwar, you're fucked on Wikipedia. They put in every smear ever written about me, but I'm not allowed to put the stuff in that exonerate me. Like, it'll say, "CNN Business said Jimmy Dore is a conspiracy theorist. He's calling the f- uh, uh, gas attacks in Syria false flags." Well, turns out I was proven right by the OPCW whistleblowers and Aaron Mate's great reporting. Uh s-

Joe Rogan 26:52 Can you explain that to people? 'Cause people, if people are, are not, like, really balls deep into politics, they might not understand, especially international politics, this whole Syria false flags thing.

Jimmy Dore 27:01 So they've been trying to get rid of S- ... They've been trying to overthrow Syria for decades, right? So this is not a new thing. But they're pretending like it all started with the Arab Spring, and it didn't. Uh, what ... How it started was the CIA funded a program called Timber Sycamore. Look it up. And what we did was we funded terrorists, right? Uh, Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda. And, uh, and we funneled a lot of arms from Libya, which we had just turned into a failed state, through Turkey into Syria. And so, uh, we created a war, uh, do- what they call a dirty war, in Syria and ... because we wanna overthrow Assad. And how do you make him out to be ... "Oh, he's gassing his people. He's doing these things." So you gotta make him propaganda to get people on board. And they said ... The first thing they did was a gas attack, right? Remember Bar- ... They wanted Barack Obama to bomb him in, like, 2014, 2013.

Joe Rogan 27:51 Right.

Jimmy Dore 27:51 And-

Joe Rogan 27:52 And this ... That was when Barack Obama had a news, a press conference and the public-

Jimmy Dore 27:56 Said no.

Joe Rogan 27:57 ... said no. Like, u- ... Almost unanimously.

Jimmy Dore 27:59 Unanimously said, "We don't want you to bomb."

Joe Rogan 28:01 People were furious about this, this idea that we're gonna go to war-

Jimmy Dore 28:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:03 ... with another country.

Jimmy Dore 28:04 Turns out he fucking did it anyway, right? So he just didn't do it officially. They dropped more bombs in Sta- ... So many bombs in Syria. They ran out of bombs when Barack Obama was president. The Air Force ... That's also a real news story. Look it up. The Air Force-

Joe Rogan 28:15 They ran out of bombs?

Jimmy Dore 28:15 ... ran b- runs out of bombs. I think they dropped 26,000 bom- ... They know that-

Joe Rogan 28:19 What?

Jimmy Dore 28:19 ... Barack Obama and Joe Biden dropped more bombs than Dick Cheney and George Bush. Did you know that?

Joe Rogan 28:24 What?

Jimmy Dore 28:25 Yes. See, this is the thing, Joe. This is why I have my show. And this is why it's so easy to out ... So here it is. US-

Joe Rogan 28:30 "US is running out of bombs to drop on ISIS." Holy shit (laughs) .

Jimmy Dore 28:33 2015. Look at that.

Joe Rogan 28:35 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 28:36 They ran out of bombs. "The US Air Force has fired off more than 20,000 missiles and bombs since the US bombing campaign-"

Joe Rogan 28:41 Okay. But if you talk to people that are in the military, the, the idea that I'm getting from them was that they wanted to get rid of ISIS, that ISIS is bad. So when you read this and you say they're dropping bombs on ISIS, what's the actual story?

Jimmy Dore 28:54 So they're, they're doing both. They're fighting ISIS and funding and, you know-

Joe Rogan 28:59 And funding?

Jimmy Dore 29:00 The same people, right? So, uh, the, the military might be fighting ISIS in one moment and the CIA might be funding them in the next.

Joe Rogan 29:06 "Behind the sudden death of a $1 billion secret CIA war in Syria." What is this, Jamie?

Narrator 29:11 That's, uh, 2017. It's, like, lo- it's explaining everything he was talking about-

Jimmy Dore 29:15 Yeah.

Narrator 29:15 ... like, two minutes ago.

Joe Rogan 29:17 Wow. Russian-

Jimmy Dore 29:17 So it said, "Bombing," uh, "The bombing, uh, helped hollow out rebel army backed by the CIA."

Joe Rogan 29:23 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 29:25 So they're trying to overthrow ... When it ... And by the way, I c- I show on my show from 2006 an interview with Christine (mumbles) and, uh-

Joe Rogan 29:32 What?

Jimmy Dore 29:32 Christine Amanpour. I like to say Christine (mumbles) .

Joe Rogan 29:34 (laughs) Why do you say it like that?

Jimmy Dore 29:35 'Cause I, I, I like to say words funny.

Joe Rogan 29:37 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 29:38 I was what ... I started ... I used to say Barrack Obama and then Jon Stewart said it, so I had to stop.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Ah, okay.

Jimmy Dore 29:42 Uh, so I like saying names funny anyway. You know, it makes me laugh down to my stomach.

Joe Rogan 29:46 Okay.

Jimmy Dore 29:47 And, uh ... (laughs) Sit like that. I don't know why that makes me laugh.

Joe Rogan 29:49 Y- you're a comic.

Jimmy Dore 29:51 And, um, so that's what's co... So- so they've been trying to overthrow Assad and there's a lot of different reasons why they wanna do it. Israel, of course, has influence and interest wi- because Assad and S- and I- Iran are-

Joe Rogan 30:01 But this is not in any way, shape, or form saying Assad's a good guy?

Jimmy Dore 30:04 N- no.

Joe Rogan 30:05 Right.

Jimmy Dore 30:05 No. N- no. It's w- name a head of a country that is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:08 Right. So, Assad-

Jimmy Dore 30:09 You know the United States is running a torture program right now in Guantanamo Bay-

Joe Rogan 30:13 It's what I heard.

Jimmy Dore 30:13 ... as we're trying to put sanctions on Cuba.

Joe Rogan 30:15 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 30:15 So they're putting sanctions on Cuba because they don't, they don't take care of their people enough and, "We care, we care about the Cuban people!" At the ... And I'm like, they talk about sanctions, which are murderous, right? People can't get their diabetic, diabetes medicine. They can't get heart tr- uh, um, uh, operations because we have these sanctions on them and people talk about sanctions on Cuba like it's a kitchen remodel. It's like, "Yeah, just get a little white vinegar on that populous. Rub it out." It's f- unfucking believable. So, uh, w- w- j- so yeah, so Assad is not a good guy. Joe Biden, not a good ... Horrible guy. Running a torture program. The United States is the biggest penal colony in America. We imprison black and brown people at unbelievable rates. We are the terrorists in the rest of the world. We turned Libya into a failed state. We are just ramping up bombings in Afghanistan. Today's headline in USA Today, uh, we did Iraq.

Joe Rogan 31:03 I wanna hear all this, but I wanna ... I don't wanna go too far off of Syria.

Jimmy Dore 31:06 So getting back to Syria.

Joe Rogan 31:06 Because I wanna, I wanna-

Jimmy Dore 31:07 So getting back to Syria, is, is, is they had all these terrorists, literal terrorists, uh, funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, those kind of types of people, and the CIA, uh, trying to overthrow Assad. Now Assad beat them. And so the reason why they would stage these fake gas attacks was because they wanted the United States to have a reason to join them and overthrow Assad, because the American people already told Barack Obama-

Joe Rogan 31:31 Right.

Jimmy Dore 31:31 ... "We don't want-"

Joe Rogan 31:32 But when you say-

Jimmy Dore 31:33 So they would stage these-

Joe Rogan 31:33 ... "stage fake gas attacks." What exactly was done and how do we know what was done?

Jimmy Dore 31:38 So we know what was done because of the OPCW whistle blowers. So the OPCW-

Joe Rogan 31:42 What does, what does that stand for? OP-

Jimmy Dore 31:43 The, the, um ... For the prevention of chemical weapons, right? So the organization for the prevention of chemical weapons. I'm pretty sure that that's what that stands for. Or for the prohibition something. Prohibition of chemical weap- OPCW, right? So that's the official organization that goes and it's gonna ... And they're supposed to be independent and it turns out they've been, being influenced by NATO and western government powers and we found this out because of the OPCW. So they went in, they go in to do the initial investigation to see where the gas attack, whether it's real, who did it, all this stuff. So the, uh, engineering report, um, got suppressed. The engineering report said, "This didn't happen." It said, "This whate- this cylinder was placed there. It wasn't dropped from the sky. It didn't happen." They suppressed those reports. So anything that was in the, the fr- initial OPCW report that debunked the gas attack narrative, uh, got suppressed. And so then these whistle blowers came out and this guy, Aaron Mate, who's a great journalist, works at the Grayzone, he, uh, highlighted this and he's testified in front of the UN about this and he's caught all these people at the OPCW lying and suppressing stuff. And nobody in the American mainstream press will cover this. Nobody's writing their article on Syria. A- Aaron Mate's written at least 10 articles detailing what happened in Syria. No one's written an article to debunk one thing he's written. Not anybody. So what this is, is we're trying to overthrow another Goddamn government in the Middle East, just like we did in Iraq, just like we did in Libya, and now we're trying to do it in Syria. And if you remember General, uh, uh, W- Wesley Clark-

Joe Rogan 33:12 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 33:12 ... was on Democracy Now! I don't know if you've ever seen this video-

Joe Rogan 33:15 Yeah, I've seen it. It's amazing.

Jimmy Dore 33:16 So he said after 9/11, he went into the Pentagon and his buddy called him in and he goes, "Hey look. What, what are we doing? We're going to war in Iraq." And he's like, "Why are we going to war in Iraq?" And he said, "I don't know, but we, you know, we got a big military and we can take out governments."

Joe Rogan 33:27 We, we should play this. I've played it before, but we should play it so that this is a standalone podcast so people can listen to this and listen to-

Jimmy Dore 33:35 General Wesley Clark say, and, and this-

Joe Rogan 33:36 A hugely respected general-

Jimmy Dore 33:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 33:38 ... say how he was told that there's this plan to do these things.

Jimmy Dore 33:42 There's a plan to, to go into all these countries that we're currently going into.

Joe Rogan 33:45 And this was, when- when did he do this? In 2007 that he said this?

Jimmy Dore 33:48 Something like that, on, on Democracy Now!

Joe Rogan 33:50 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 33:50 Do you ... Yeah, so you can-

Joe Rogan 33:51 We'll-

Jimmy Dore 33:52 Wanna insert that or-

Joe Rogan 33:52 Yeah. We'll play it. We'll play it, just so we can, it can, we can refresh-

Narrator 33:56 ... Rumsfeld and, and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the joint staff who had used, used to work for me and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you gotta come in, you gotta come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "You g- we've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" (laughter) He said, "I don't know." (laughter) He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." (laughter) So, uh, I said, "Well, did they find some information collect- connecting Saddam to Al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They've just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we got a good military and we can take down governments." And, um, he said, "I guess if, if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail." (laughter) So I came back to see him a few weeks later and by that time, we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He said ... He reached over on his desk, he picked up a piece of paper. He said, "I just ..." He said, "I just got this down from upstairs," meaning the Secretary of Defense's office, "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off, Iran."

Jimmy Dore 35:25 So there it is.

Joe Rogan 35:26 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 35:26 We're bombing Somalia. We're bombing Libya. We're bombing Syria.

Narrator 35:29 So the truth is about-

Jimmy Dore 35:30 And-

Joe Rogan 35:31 Is there a re- so you were talking about, um ...... this, this whole gas attack thing. Th- is, is there any ambiguity? Is there any confusion? Is there any like, "We're not sure about this, we're not sure about that?" Like, what- how it's- it's-

Jimmy Dore 35:45 So no. There's not in m- in my head there isn't, because e- even at the time, Joe, when these gas attacks happened, uh, they happened when, uh, Assad was winning the war against the, the terrorists. He was winning. And he ... and so then they do this gas attack to try to get the Americans in, give them a reason to join in. So why would Assad. It doesn't make any sense. Why would he do the one thing that he knews- knows would bring the United States into this war and they could beat him? So why would he do that? And by the way, the gas attack, what did it kill? 50 people? 100 people? It's not like these are effective we- ... The- it just makes no sense that they would do it. None of it made sense. And so, uh-

Joe Rogan 36:20 And the idea was that he used it on his own people because they were rebelling against him?

Jimmy Dore 36:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Is that what the idea-

Jimmy Dore 36:24 That's the idea. But, uh, but, you know, this was debunked by Robert Fisk im- originally. So I was aware of Robert Fisk's reporting, who passed away recently. But he was one of the most decorated war correspondents in all of Europe. And he went there and he was like ... he interviewed the doctors and all. He's like, "Yeah, this didn't happen. This doesn't, this doesn't match up." And, uh, nobody else reported that. Joe, why won't people report this stuff in the United States? You tell me why, uh, The Washington Post, MSNBC, CNN, or The Intercept, they won't do a goddamn article on this. They won't do an article on Syria. In fact, they just did. The Intercept did a big thing on Joe Biden's warmongering and they stopped right at where it came to Syria. They didn't keep going, which was very cowardly and very revealing, right? And so, uh, you know, The Intercept's another very pro-censorship organization (laughs) . Doug Lingard had to leave that organization 'cause they were censoring him, the guy who founded it. You know that, right?

Joe Rogan 37:15 Yeah, I do know that. It's, uh, very disturbing, right? 'Cause all of this is disturbing, because as a person who's on the outside, you don't know ... Especially me. I'm really on the outside. At least you're a political guy.

Jimmy Dore 37:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:24 I'm- I just have to rely on people like you and, you know, Kyle Kulinski and, and Krystal and Saagar and I ju- I nee- I need people to explain things to me that are independent. I mean, this is why people like you are so important to me, 'cause I can get real information that's not been filtered down through the powers that be.

Jimmy Dore 37:43 I mean, it's exact- it's exactly what Eisenhower said, that-

Joe Rogan 37:47 Right.

Jimmy Dore 37:47 ... we must resist the undue influence of the military-industrial complex. And guess what? We're not. We're not resisting it.

Joe Rogan 37:53 You think they- they- they think that they're doing enough good and resisting o- enough-

Jimmy Dore 37:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:58 ... that they'll let a few things slide-

Jimmy Dore 37:59 So Darian would-

Joe Rogan 38:00 ... because this is how they stay in operation? Like what do- what do you think the motivation is behind it? Because I'm sure the people from The Intercept and I'm sure that people from a lot of these organizations, they think of themselves as being on the right side. Right? They think of themselves as being on the right side of history. They think of ... Most ... When you're talking about The Washington Post or The New York Times, most of the people working there, I, I ... Maybe I'm, maybe I'm delusional. I think they're good people and I think they think that they're progressive and that they're doing the right thing. So what happens?

Jimmy Dore 38:30 I think Jeff Bezos hires the most progressive people (laughs) . Dr. Evil is running a newspaper that, uh ... By the way, he ha- he has- he had the contract with the CIA which was worth like two or three times what he fucking paid for the paper. So you're not getting the truth from the ... E- every time. So if you read-

Joe Rogan 38:47 Do you think he actively is involved in The Washington Post stories, though?

Jimmy Dore 38:50 But if you read Manufacturing Consent, right?

Joe Rogan 38:53 Uh, yeah, I've read it.

Jimmy Dore 38:53 So you see how that's th- th- th- how censorship happens.

Joe Rogan 38:58 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 38:58 Right? So it, it happens by who funds it.

Joe Rogan 39:00 Right.

Jimmy Dore 39:01 Right? It happens by who- then who they hire. Like I was on a panel one time in San Francisco and it was being hosted by this Emmy award-winning news guy from NBC, and I was talking about how bad the establishment news is and how they all have group think and they all go ... He goes, "Jimmy, you know, when, uh, when we're, we're in editorial meetings, we don't all talk like that. I don't think you know what we talk about when we're in editorial meetings." And I go, "You know, I don't, because I'll never be invited into one of those editorial meetings, because I've been coloring outside the lines my whole life, whereas you have been groomed to be in that editorial meeting since you were in fucking kindergarten and you don't even know it."

Joe Rogan 39:35 How important is a guy like Chomsky when you think about Manufacturing Consent and y- you think about what he exposed. Like, when was that book written?

Jimmy Dore 39:44 I don't know. Was it in the late '80s or ... I think?

Joe Rogan 39:47 I think it was somewhere around then. But that guy-

Jimmy Dore 39:50 And that was before the consolidation of media.

Joe Rogan 39:52 Right.

Jimmy Dore 39:52 So that was when there were still 50 giant media companies and now there's only five or six thanks to Bill Clinton, no friend of the working man.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Hey.

Jimmy Dore 40:00 Bill Clinton did the Telecommunications Act in 1996, which took us from 50 giant media companies and took us down to six. Right? And the answer was, "Oh, we can do that because the internet exists now. So the internet, that's gonna open up everything. We're gonna have lots of different voices." Except we don't, because now we have censorship. And where is the censorship coming from? The authoritarian left. They would rather s- shut people up. It's so weird, Joe, because I'm a natural, you know, anti-establishment guy. I'm a fricking comedian, right? I'm an outsider. Whatever the thing is, I want to go against it.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Right.

Jimmy Dore 40:30 I'm a contrarian. So whatever the fucking thing is, and now you can't do that on social media and people on the left cheer it on. They cheer on, "We gotta get rid of that bad information," like they cheered on with Alex Jones. And how stupid. It's like you guys don't know they start with the guy who's easiest to censor first and then it's gonna come down to you.

Joe Rogan 40:47 Right.

Jimmy Dore 40:47 And exactly what happened. I mean, I remember watching, um, Jacobin, right? Uh, uh, I used to have these ar- arguments at The Young Turks. They were for censorship. Still are. They're very pro-censorship. And so I remember, uh, Ana Kasparian, who was the co-host of that, she had one of her videos that had Jacobin magazine that got Facebook censored. And they were making a big deal out of it. Like, "Yeah, stop advocating for censorship and you won't be censored."

Joe Rogan 41:11 So-

Jimmy Dore 41:11 And she's like, "Well I was ..." She goes, "I ... When have I ever been for censorship?" "Like when you censored, uh, at ... We were for censoring Alex Jones." She goes, "Yeah, besides that." "What do you mean besides that? That's how it starts." Free speech is an absolute. If Alex Jones was doing something illegal, there's a government body or there's a law enforcement agency that's supposed to take care of that. And if he's not doing something illegal, then he deserves a printing press because that's what Facebook, Twitter and YouTube is. It's a printing press. And it's like, you can't take away someone's printing press 'cause you don't agree with what they're saying. They have to break a law and you have to go to court. And that's

Jimmy Dore 41:41 how it should be. And all these goddamn social media platforms should be, uh, uh, considered utilities.

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 41:46 You know that and I know that.

Joe Rogan 41:47 I agree. I agree 100% on that.

Jimmy Dore 41:48 Do you ... Like for instance, 20 years ago or 30 years ago, you couldn't start a business, Joe, without a telephone. How could you compete? If, if AT&T took away your telephone 'cause they didn't like the shit you were saying on your telephone, you couldn't run a business. Right? That was unfair. But today, you can't run a business without a Facebook page or a Twitter account or a YouTube. And they can censor you over that. They can take that away from your business, and that's not right.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Which brings me to something that's really disturbing. The, the recent decisions to-... tried to censor SMS messages.

Jimmy Dore 42:18 (laughs) Ch-

Joe Rogan 42:18 So that's standard text messages that may co- include erroneous information or misinformation. This is, this is something that they talked about-

Jimmy Dore 42:29 That's not chilling? Is that not chilling?

Joe Rogan 42:31 It's, it's terrifying because here's what people need to understand. If you think that this misinformation could possibly cost lives and that you wanna censor it because you wanna preserve life and you wanna preserve the truth, the problem is now they have a tool to decide what you say or don't say through private communication, which is what a text message is. And the way they're doing this is by saying someone could send out a mass text to a bunch of people, and in that, there could be misinformation-

Jimmy Dore 43:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:01 ... and they wanna be able to stop that from happening. But-

Jimmy Dore 43:03 That's what every dictator says.

Joe Rogan 43:04 But if it's a ma- Right. But if it's a mass text, how do you stop single t- Well, you'd use the same tools. And once those tools become available for this, don't think they're gonna put it away once this problem is over. They're not.

Jimmy Dore 43:16 No.

Joe Rogan 43:16 They're gonna make sure the problem is never over.

Jimmy Dore 43:18 That's right.

Joe Rogan 43:19 They're gonna make sure the pr- The- Which is what you're talking about with the CIA bombing in Syria, where they, they're playing on both sides.

Jimmy Dore 43:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:24 They will do that with everything. You've seen this thing recently with the Governor Whitmer.

Jimmy Dore 43:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:28 With the-

Jimmy Dore 43:29 Well, that was the FBI. The- So there's-

Joe Rogan 43:30 12... Yeah, 12 different informants were involved in this. Six defendants, 12 informants. Have you seen that, um, that meme, Jamie? The fucking, the Spider-Man meme? Let's see it. Here. I sent it to you. Put- Put it up, 'cause it's one of my favorite memes ever. It's hilarious. There's a meme of all these Spider-Man, like that they're all feds-

Jimmy Dore 43:52 Ah.

Joe Rogan 43:52 ... and they're all pointing at each other.

Jimmy Dore 43:53 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 43:53 And there's one- And it says, "One poor autistic guy is standing there, like not knowing," 'cause he's the guy they've talked into this.

Jimmy Dore 43:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:59 Look at this. Some autistic fuck.

Jimmy Dore 44:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:01 Look at this. Fed, another fed, fed, fed, fed. And I mean, this is what that, that whole plot to, to, uh, kidnap the governor was not just a bunch of feds. It was designed by them.

Jimmy Dore 44:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 44:16 They concocted it.

Jimmy Dore 44:18 Concocted.

Joe Rogan 44:18 They put it together. They, they, they organized it, and then they got these saps, these poor fucks to go along with it, much like the story of the 19-year-old kid. They gave him a fake bomb. They talked him in-

Jimmy Dore 44:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:30 They radicalized him, gave him a fake bomb, and talked this kid into using a cellphone to detonate the bomb that didn't work in the first place. And then once he did that, they swooped up and-

Jimmy Dore 44:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:38 ... and arrested him and said, "We caught a terrorist."

Jimmy Dore 44:40 This-

Joe Rogan 44:40 But you made him.

Jimmy Dore 44:41 The- that's it. Uh, we've covered this.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 44:42 Th- They've been doing this all- for a long time.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Right, of course.

Jimmy Dore 44:45 Since 9/11, they've been doing this at least, right?

Joe Rogan 44:47 Probably before that if you go back to Operation Northwoods.

Jimmy Dore 44:49 I bet. Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 44:49 It seems like they've been doing that since the '60s, right?

Jimmy Dore 44:52 (laughs) Northwoods.

Joe Rogan 44:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 44:53 People don't know that the CIA had drawn up plans, this is true, uh, to blow up shit in Miami.

Joe Rogan 45:00 Blow up a drone jetliner.

Jimmy Dore 45:01 And blow up a jetliner.

Joe Rogan 45:02 They were gonna blow up a jet with no one in it. They were gonna pretend there was people in it.

Jimmy Dore 45:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:05 And- and say, oh, well, in the '60s, you could just say a bunch of people died-

Jimmy Dore 45:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:08 ... and there was no real way-

Jimmy Dore 45:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:09 ... of knowing. They were gonna arm Cuban friendlies and use them to attack Guantanamo Bay. And there was al- this was all to motivate people to be- to go to war with Cuba.

Jimmy Dore 45:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:18 Uh-

Jimmy Dore 45:18 And why did they wanna go to war with Cuba? Well, because you can't have a successful socialist country 90 miles away from the United States. You can't have a successful socialist country in Central America, South America, and that's why we've done everything we've done. Uh, you can't have it, and that's why we have to make... If- if there's a... You know, in Venezuela, for instance, uh, turns out Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia. Did you know that?

Joe Rogan 45:45 What?

Jimmy Dore 45:45 Yeah. Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia. When I found that out, I knew it was just a matter of time before we were gonna bring some democracy to their people.

Joe Rogan 45:53 (scoffs)

Jimmy Dore 45:53 And that's what we're doing. We're gonna try and bring that Juan Guaidó, the whole thing. And so again, uh, uh, is Maduro, uh, the greatest guy in the world? Doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 46:03 No.

Jimmy Dore 46:03 Doesn't mat-

Joe Rogan 46:03 Right.

Jimmy Dore 46:03 It's not up to me to decide.

Joe Rogan 46:05 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 46:05 And they have a socialist government, and he- they have pulled, uh, peop- their government, their socialist government pulled people out of poverty and that... And so we don't want- we can't have that in the United States 'cause we're run by capitalists. We have a completely captured government. Uh, it's a rapacious oligarchy. Why do you think when COVID happened, the first thing they did, the first thing they did was they engineered an upward transfer of wealth of $5 trillion, the largest upward transfer of wealth in human history? That's how they fixed COVID. They didn't fix COVID. They just looted the Treasury and gave it to the richest thousand motherfuckers in the country and, uh-

Joe Rogan 46:39 But they did it under the guise of keeping the economy rolling.

Jimmy Dore 46:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:44 And it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Jimmy Dore 46:45 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 46:46 The thing that disturbed me-

Jimmy Dore 46:46 It seemed like a good idea because the media wanted to present it as a good idea. It wasn't a good idea. I knew it wasn't a good idea. I had, uh, il-

Joe Rogan 46:54 But do you think the media was aware that it wasn't a good idea? Because I think they thought-

Jimmy Dore 46:57 I don't- I think the media is such airheads. They just go all- It's groupthink. I mean, if you've ever sur- heard mentality, it's the, uh, it's the United States' establishment news media.

Joe Rogan 47:04 Right.

Jimmy Dore 47:04 Not a fucking original thinker in any of them, which is why I can outdo them on a daily basis.

Joe Rogan 47:09 But the way- the reason why you can is because you're independent.

Jimmy Dore 47:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 47:12 Because there's no one telling you-

Jimmy Dore 47:13 Nobody.

Joe Rogan 47:14 ... what to say or not to say.

Jimmy Dore 47:15 And I'm not self-censoring because I'm-

Joe Rogan 47:16 Right.

Jimmy Dore 47:17 ... I know my boss is watching me and I know what stories will get approved and what won't get approved. I just get to talk about whatever I wanna talk about, which is why I'm able to outdo them, which is why I'm better ded- able to do better reporting on Syria than The Intercept and The Washington Post. I'm am able to do better news information (laughs) segments on Syria or on Venezuela.

Joe Rogan 47:35 Because you don't have a gatekeeper.

Jimmy Dore 47:36 Because I don't have a gate- or Libya.

Joe Rogan 47:38 Right.

Jimmy Dore 47:38 When- But a big part of my show is taking the news media's coverage of this stuff like Libya, Syria, Venezuela and debunking it in real time.

Joe Rogan 47:45 But you are doing that. And doesn't that give you-

Jimmy Dore 47:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 47:47 ... hope that you can do that? 'Cause it gives me hope. 'Cause the- 'cause there's people like you and Kyle and Krystal and Saagar, and all these people are out there that are doing this kinda work, it does give me hope. It really does, because I think even though there's a lot of suppression because there's a lot of influence from the establishment media, like one of the things that we know for sure, and Kyle's talked about this a lot, is that they're, they're taking... What i- what used to be you, you would get recommended. So if I watch one of your videos-

Jimmy Dore 48:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:14 ... there would be more of your videos that would be recommended, but they- that doesn't happen anymore.

Jimmy Dore 48:17 No.

Joe Rogan 48:18 They- progressive...... talk shows. Like, everyone wants to say the censorship is on the right, like they're censoring the right. They're censoring the left too.

Jimmy Dore 48:25 They're censoring everybody.

Joe Rogan 48:26 They're censoring everybody who's not established media-

Jimmy Dore 48:28 That's right.

Joe Rogan 48:29 ... because established corporate media has enormous amounts of money behind them.

Jimmy Dore 48:33 That's right.

Joe Rogan 48:34 And corporations behind them that are advertising on them.

Jimmy Dore 48:37 That's right.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Yeah. So-

Jimmy Dore 48:38 And so, and, and s- so they don't... Again, the establishment... People would go to YouTube, uh, to see YouTubers, people tubing by themselves. Now, when you go to YouTube for the news, they wanna push you to corporate media-

Joe Rogan 48:50 Right.

Jimmy Dore 48:50 ... because it's safer for their bottom line. And I g- I get it. It's, it's just basically bottom line. The... I get why they're doing that. And I don't think that some nefarious conspiracy. It's very black and white why YouTube is censoring, and I get why they're doing that. But we have to push back, and that's why I think it should be, uh, uh, it, it should be a utility.

Joe Rogan 49:06 I agree, it should be a utility. And I, I don't understand when people get upset at things being popular. Like, there was a, a recent-

Jimmy Dore 49:13 Right. (laughs) Yes.

Joe Rogan 49:13 ... article on NPR about Ben Shapiro. And it was talking about how many views Ben Shapiro gets-

Jimmy Dore 49:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:18 ... and his Facebook page gets more interaction than anything else, and that he's pushing hate. Like, no, he's pushing his perspective and his opinion.

Jimmy Dore 49:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:25 Ben Shapiro's not a hateful guy. And this, uh, if you... Have you met him?

Jimmy Dore 49:28 No, I have not met.

Joe Rogan 49:28 He's a wonderful guy. I really enjoy him. I like him a lot. I don't agree with him on a lot of things. I don't agree with him on many, many things. And I've had disagreements with him on the podcast, particularly stuff... Like, he's very religious, right? So he's very against gay marriage. He's very against gay relationships. And I think that's preposterous. I don't think that makes any sense. And we've had disagreements on that and a lot of other things, like the, the, um-

Jimmy Dore 49:51 So but that's-

Joe Rogan 49:51 ... Colin Kaepernick thing. And there's, there's many things that he and I have had disagreements about. But he's not a bad person. He just has ideas that I don't agree with. And this is the problem. It's like, what you're supposed to do when someone has an i- idea that you don't agree with, you're supposed to talk to them.

Jimmy Dore 50:06 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:06 And you say what you think and they say what they think. And hopefully, if it's an, uh, some sort of a subject that I'm informed on, I can offer a perspective that's contrary to his and it'll make sense. And then people listening go, "Oh, I agree with Ben." "Oh no, I think Joe's right." "I think..." And you, you figure out for yourself. That's what it's supposed to be b- being a person, being a human being. Th- this idea that there's one arbiter of truth, there's one absolute arbiter of truth and it has to be this, whoever is the establishment media. And when it's something like NPR, it's even more weird, because this is... NPR is funded by people, right? It's funded... Uh, that, that's-

Jimmy Dore 50:45 Well, it's, it's funded also by Archer Daniels Midland and Walmart and Bank of America. They're no longer public radio.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Right.

Jimmy Dore 50:51 That's the problem.

Joe Rogan 50:52 That's the problem, but it's National Public Radio.

Jimmy Dore 50:54 It, it sounds like it should be, but-

Joe Rogan 50:56 It should be public.

Jimmy Dore 50:57 But it's not. And-

Joe Rogan 50:58 But it should be.

Jimmy Dore 50:59 Right? It should be.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Or you gotta change your fucking name.

Jimmy Dore 51:01 I know.

Joe Rogan 51:02 Right?

Jimmy Dore 51:02 Th- uh, that... So I used to... When I used to have a show on KPFK in Los Angeles, uh, The Public, that's the real lefty station.

Joe Rogan 51:08 Right.

Jimmy Dore 51:08 And I would come in to do fundraisers and I would say, "You know, how many commercials for a bank do you get to run and still call yourself a public radio station?"

Joe Rogan 51:15 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 51:16 And that was... I was taking a shot at K- KCRW-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 51:18 ... and KPCC. So, uh, turns out there's an unlimited. I mean, every time I turn on NPR, they're running a Bank of America commercial or something like that.

Joe Rogan 51:26 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 51:27 And, and... Or the f- or the fine people at, uh, you know, Raytheon. And, uh, so, uh, the, that, this, the ce- the censorship's not stopping, Joe. In fact, what's happening is that the left is embracing it, and that's what's scary. There's nobody to push back against it. And when I come into this space, this journalism space, and I can do it better than them, they want me censored. That's why they, that's why they, uh, uh, write those hit pieces. You know, Neera Tanden, who, uh, Bernie sand-... Um, used to run the Center for American Progress, which is this big well-moneyed think tank started by Hillary Clinton's former campaign dir-... So it's all big... And then Joe Biden tried to put her in, in, in his cabinet, right? Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:06 Right.

Jimmy Dore 52:06 And so there was a big ruckus over that. And she was, she was on... She's been on Twitter saying that, uh, you know, I've been, uh, uh... Sh- she came at me on Twitter s- uh, trying to con- conflate me with that, uh, uh, Steven Crowder, that Jimmy does these hateful video... This is so funny, she owned herself in her tweet. She goes, "Jimmy Dore does many, has done many hateful, uh, videos about me. I don't watch them, but they can be horrible." I'm like, "Well, how do you know they're horrible if you don't watch them?"

Joe Rogan 52:34 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 52:34 How do you know that they're full of hate speech if you're... Well, a- are you, are you ignoring them while you're watching them?

Joe Rogan 52:39 It all-

Jimmy Dore 52:39 Anyway. So but those... But that's someone who's got the ear of the president.

Joe Rogan 52:43 Right.

Jimmy Dore 52:43 The president in bed with, with, uh, Silicon Valley. Just now, the other day, Jen Psaki, the s- press secretary for the president, said, "If you're banned on one media platform-"

Joe Rogan 52:52 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 52:52 "... you should be banned on all of them." And so this, so she wants to get me banned. So do you see what's happening?

Joe Rogan 52:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 52:57 The powerful people. I stick out like a sore thumb 'cause I'm not co-opted by The Washington Post and New York Times or The Intercept or MSNBC. I can speak my truth and they gotta sh-

Joe Rogan 53:05 Why do you think she's saying that? Do you think someone's telling her to say that? Or if you're b-

Jimmy Dore 53:08 No, she wants to get rid of me. I exposed her-

Joe Rogan 53:10 She does?

Jimmy Dore 53:11 Yeah, 'cause I exposed that she was for stealing the oil in Libya. Neera Tanden, these again-

Joe Rogan 53:15 No, no, no. Jen Psaki.

Jimmy Dore 53:17 Oh, Jen Psaki. What about her?

Joe Rogan 53:17 When she said that, on, if you're, if you're banned from one media platform, you should be banned from all of them. Why do you think she's saying that?

Jimmy Dore 53:24 Because they wanna control the narrative. I mean, the establish-

Joe Rogan 53:26 So is that... Like, do you think someone's saying, "Hey, this is what we wanna push, that if you are banned from one-"

Jimmy Dore 53:31 Yeah, that was a-

Joe Rogan 53:32 "... social media platform, th- this is, so there's like-"

Jimmy Dore 53:34 It would seem to me that she didn't make that up on the fly, that that was a policy that they've been thinking about. And that's... And so Chris Hedges talked about it on my show that they're just gonna, the establishment is just gonna be using more crude and more cruder forms of control, like censorship. They're just doing it flat out now. And so that's all they have left, and they can't control people like you or can't control people like me. And so what are they gonna do? Censor us. That's all they have left.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Right. Now, when we're talking about NPR, I don't... Uh, in all fairness, and I, I really wanna be fair as much as possible.

Jimmy Dore 54:04 Okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:04 I don't think NPR was calling for the censorship of Ben Shapiro, were they? They were just-

Jimmy Dore 54:09 Oh, I don't know if they-

Joe Rogan 54:10 ... saying that he-

Jimmy Dore 54:11 They're lamenting-

Joe Rogan 54:12 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 54:12 ... the fact that someone else-

Joe Rogan 54:13 That it's a problem.

Jimmy Dore 54:13 ... is more popular than they are.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Yeah. Well, that... CNN's done that as well.

Jimmy Dore 54:16 Of course. That's-

Joe Rogan 54:17 CNN's done that about many, many shows, right?

Jimmy Dore 54:18 And people don't see through that. I mean, there was a guy on CNN lamenting that there are some YouTube shows that get better, bigger, uh, audiences than a CNN show. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 54:26 You know why? 'Cause you guys suck.

Joe Rogan 54:28 Well, the problem with those shows is that these people have been chosen for their spot. They, they, uh, they get on there with a suit and a tie and they say what's in front of them on the teleprompter. And I don't know how much editorial, uh, control they have over it. But at the end of the day-... they, they're not there because they're popular, right? You are on your show because you developed an audience over the years, that people enjoy what you're doing, or they like it. They- it resonates with them. They- they've tuned in. They've subscribed. They- they- they go and seek you out on a regular basis. They're not doing that with CNN.

Jimmy Dore 55:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:01 It's just on. It's on.

Jimmy Dore 55:03 It's on.

Joe Rogan 55:03 So, when Brian Stelter's talking, it's 'cause he's on, and so you're watching. But when he's not on, when someone else is in his place, the ratings go up, which is crazy.

Jimmy Dore 55:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:11 When you got your own show and then you're not there, and the ratings are better when you're not there. But see, this is the thing about when you are chosen to be on a slot in corporate news.

Jimmy Dore 55:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:22 Like, y- it's a weird thing that shouldn't ... Look, it exists. Whatever it is, it exists. But the way independent shows have gathered up a following strictly by the merit of their content is a different thing. And this is a thing that I think people find, they have a connection with you.

Jimmy Dore 55:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:42 They know that if you're talking, you in particular, Jimmy, they know that if you're talking, this is what Jimmy Dore thinks about things. And there's no one whispering in your ear.

Jimmy Dore 55:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:51 There's no one coming down on you and saying, "Hey, Jimmy, uh, I don't like the way you were talking about Raytheon. Raytheon is a s- a proud sponsor of the- the Fuck You Network, and, you know, we're- we're not really interested in- in-"

Jimmy Dore 56:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:04 "... airing that segment."

Jimmy Dore 56:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:05 You know what I'm saying?

Jimmy Dore 56:06 Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.

Joe Rogan 56:07 But this is what ... People need to get this in their head. It ... You wanna know what someone's opinion is. You really do. We all do. Because I'm not sure what mine are on things. I need to hear from educated people. I need to heal fr- hear from informed people that are speaking truthfully about, "This is what I've learned. This is my perspective. This is what I think. Based on the facts at hand, and I'm gonna show you what those facts are, this is my perspective on these things." When you do that, people go, "I l- I see how you came to that conclusion." But when you're on a- a network, whether it's Fox News or whatever, and you're- you're speaking and people know that you are reading off of a teleprompter, you have a- a team of writers, all the words are approved, you- you have a narrative that you're pushing, and this narrative is essentially g-guided by the network. The people don't resonate with that. It doesn't, it doesn't stick.

Jimmy Dore 57:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:03 It doesn't work. It's- it's a version of what we're talking about with late night television.

Jimmy Dore 57:07 Yes.

Joe Rogan 57:07 It's a version of it.

Jimmy Dore 57:08 Yes.

Joe Rogan 57:08 It's the same kind of thing. It doesn't resonate.

Jimmy Dore 57:12 So ... So, what all you have is, I think, in the space that I'm in, as a YouTuber, I think you too, Joe, is your authenticity. I- if you, if people can trust you. If they think that ... Right- right or wrong, if they agree with you or disagree with you-

Joe Rogan 57:24 Right.

Jimmy Dore 57:24 ... they know you're being sincere.

Joe Rogan 57:26 And if you're wrong about something, it's- it's also your job to correct it.

Jimmy Dore 57:29 Right, and then-

Joe Rogan 57:30 Say, "Well, I fucked that up."

Jimmy Dore 57:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:31 "I didn't know, or-"

Jimmy Dore 57:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:32 "... here's what I know now." And don't be married to your ideas. Th- these are ... This is what I think.

Jimmy Dore 57:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:38 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 57:38 And s- and once you blow that, you're ... Like, I have my ... People ... Uh, I have a broad appeal, like, from both left and the right, right? They ... I have a lot of people, uh, who watch my show on the right say, "I disagree with Jimmy on most things, but I appreciate that he's telling the truth." And they like that. They like that I'm gonna tell the truth. And I've had lots of people say that I've changed their mind. They go, "Oh, I started watching Jimmy, and since then, I've changed on single payer, but I still disagree with him on cops," and this and that-

Joe Rogan 58:04 Right.

Jimmy Dore 58:05 ... and blah blah blah. And that used to be the gold standard for a left ... You know, when I go on Tucker Carlson, I take heat for it every time I do. People, uh, uh ... But Tucker Carlson admitted, uh, one of the f- ... Last time I was on his show, we were talking about Julian Assange, and he said, you know, uh, "It was through the force of your argument that you changed my mind on Julian Assange." Now, that should be a co- c- considered a huge victory for the progressive left, right? Because you got the guy who's got the number one news show speaking to half the country, and I changed his mind on an issue. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to use speech, talk to each other-

Joe Rogan 58:36 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 58:36 ... and so we can h- we can change people's hearts and minds.

Joe Rogan 58:39 It's the very, this-

Jimmy Dore 58:39 And that's what you're supposed to do. So, when you see somebody who's a right-winger ... I had a union guy on my show, and I go, "What's your message for these guys?" And they go, "I don't have a message." I go, "Well, that's not how organizing works, fuck face."

Joe Rogan 58:49 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 58:49 "That's not how it works." I've been in unions my whole life.

Joe Rogan 58:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 58:52 You don't go to the shop floor and go, "Who- who's here a Proud Boy? You're out. Who here's a Boogaloo Boil You're out. Who's a libertarian? You're out. Who's a gun nut? You're out. Who's a Trumper? You're out. Okay, who's left? We're gonna organize against the man." That's not how fucking organizing works. And when people say, which they love to say, and they don't know what they're saying, they go, "Oh, we have to organize along class lines." Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 59:13 Right.

Jimmy Dore 59:13 You really mean that? 'Cause they don't fucking mean that. What does it mean when they say organize along cr- ... That not just the c- working class on half the country. When you say organize along working, working class, class lines, that means everybody. That means Trumpers. And when I'm out there pushing for Medicare for all, that's Medicare for all.

Joe Rogan 59:30 Right.

Jimmy Dore 59:31 That's Medicare-

Joe Rogan 59:31 Including Trumpers.

Jimmy Dore 59:31 ... for right-wingers-

Joe Rogan 59:32 Right.

Jimmy Dore 59:32 ... Trumpers-

Joe Rogan 59:33 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 59:33 ... libertarians, gun-

Joe Rogan 59:35 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 59:35 ... and people on the left. That's everybody.

Joe Rogan 59:37 Everybody. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 59:37 And so ... And- and guess who want ... Everybody wants to end the wars. We can come together on those things. We can come together on single payer healthcare. We can come together on police brutality. We can come together on pot legalization, and all kinds of shit we can come together on. $15 minimum wage, people agree on. All the shit that we agree on, that the establishment doesn't, and they don't want us talking to each other. I had a Boogaloo Boi on my show. I just interviewed him.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 I remember that.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:01 I ... A- all I did was I ... And I started off the interview by saying, "I don't know anything about the Boogaloo Bois. I am not endorsing a Boogaloo Boi. I am not ... I don't know anything about it. But I saw this guy give a speech at the state capital in Michigan, and I wanna have him on just pick his brain." And so, I brought him on, and I just ... I interviewed him. And it turned out he ... That the ... Certain fractions of the Boogaloo Bois that he belongs to, they were started because they were a reaction to the Proud Boys, and they were anti-racist. And one of the things that you had to be in a Boogaloo Boi was you couldn't be racist. That ... I didn't know that. Uh, he also said he was providing security for the Black Lives Matter protestors. That's, that's been documented. They did that. Uh, he's also, uh, pro-LGBTQ.I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 So wait. So what exactly ... What do they stand for?

Jimmy Dore 1:00:45 I told him, "You guys are fucking nuts." So-

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:47 But he's a gun guy. He loves guns.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 They wear Hawaiian shirts, right?

Jimmy Dore 1:00:49 They wear Hawaiian shirts and they love guns, but they're-

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 You can't wear Hawaiian shirts anymore because people think you're a Boogaloo Boy.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:54 Right. They think you're a Boogaloo ... So, but, but, but the Boogaloo Boys were anti-Trump, anti-cop, per- police brutality, anti-imperialism, antiwar, pro-LGBT and pro ... That's what that guy told me. Now, is every B- there's no coalition. There's no central-

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:08 But, so the faction that he was in was a part ... And so I reached out to that guy, right? And I, and I had ... The next guy came out, he goes, "What are you doing platforming that guy?" I go, "You mean I interviewed somebody?" He-

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:18 I go, "What's your message to that guy?" I go, "That guy is being crushed by capitalism right now because the COVID lockdown, he didn't have a job, he didn't know what to do." And I go, "That guy, you gotta have a message for that guy." And he goes, "I don't have a message for that guy." I go, "Well, that's why nobody ever fucking heard of you."

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Well, it's also-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:32 "And you're a shitty organizer."

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 The problem with any kind of organization that anybody could join, whether it's the Boogaloo Boys or anybody, you could start off good. You could start off with a good intention and then you'll get co-opted by the government. Someone'll come in-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 And they'll have fake-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:44 Infiltrators.

Joe Rogan 1:01:44 ... people. Yeah, they'll have infiltrators.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:45 That's right. And have you do all kinds of-

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 Agent provocateurs. They'll come in-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:48 That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 And they'll pretend they're a part of your organization-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 And they'll start lighting buildings on fire.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:52 Yes, right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Smashing windows.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:53 Smashing windows.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:55 Yes. That's what-

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 That's what they do.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:56 We, we ... Yes. That, that documented ... That happened a lot last summer.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 But that's a problem with any organization.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 That's not an official s-

Jimmy Dore 1:02:02 That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 ... government-run organization.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Is, if anybody could join it, that means the federal government can join it.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:07 Can join it. But the-

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Yeah, anybody can.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:09 But the sin I committed, Joe, was I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Platformed them.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:12 I t- I talked to somebody on the right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 Right. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:15 And that's what the establishment fears. If the populous left and the populous right come together, they're fucked. And that's what they have to stop.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 That's it.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:22 And that's why they're so after me when I did that. Newsweek wrote his hit piece, Buzzfeed, New York Magazine. I mean, they went nuts coming at me. I trended on Twitter for like three days two weeks in a row.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Congratulations.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:34 Oh, thank you very much. I was-

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 1:02:36 It's great. My parents are very proud. And I was trending yesterday on Twitter because I gave a speech at the Medicare For All marches that happened on Saturday. And I said, "We have to make the squad uncomfortable. We have to make Bernie Sanders uncomfortable." Because those are the people we have the most influence on. I don't have any influence. I don't have any influence on Rand Paul-

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:53 Or Mitch McConnell. I didn't help get them elected. I don't ... They don't listen to me ever. And Lawrence O'Donnell said, "The only way you're ever going to get ..." And this is a famous quote of his. "The only way you're gonna get the Democratic Party to listen to you or move to your side, to the left, is you have to be willing to show that you're not going to vote for them." And that is not what the Democrats are willing, or the people on the left are. They're not ... They're always gonna vote for the lesser of two evil, so the lesser of two evil's always gonna keep being shitty.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 Mm.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:19 And so that's why Joe Biden can govern like a right-winger 'cause he is a right-winger. He's a conservative right-winger, Joe Biden. I mean, he's ... And just think about this, about the military spending. So when Trump was president, they said Trump was a traitor and he was working for Putin and we can't trust him. Then why did you give him an extra $132 billion to do war? 'Cause that's what they did. For ... And during his four years of presidency, they up, they ramped up the military budget $132 billion. And then, and nobody ... And there was no town halls about it, there was no meetings, there was no big discussions about it. They just did it. You know you could end homelessness for $20 billion? They could do that every year. They don't want to. But, so, so it just goes to show you how captured our government is.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 How could you do ... Wait a minute. How could you do that? Doesn't LA's ... Isn't LA's homeless budget like $2 billion?

Jimmy Dore 1:04:05 I don't know w- how they're spending-

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 Or California's?

Jimmy Dore 1:04:06 ... that money, what they're doing.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:04:08 California. I mean, California's run by democrats. Super majority Democrats and a Democratic governor. And there's people sleeping under every bridge and no one gives a shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 Well, I hadColion Noir on the podcast-

Jimmy Dore 1:04:18 Who's that?

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 And he, he's a, a Second Amendment advocate. He's a lawyer, and he's a very interesting and intelligent guy. And one of the things that he pointed out was that it was pointed out to him that there's no incentive to really end homelessness 'cause there's a shit ton of people that are working to end homelessness and they're making six figures.

Jimmy Dore 1:04:34 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 And he put up the numbers.

Jimmy Dore 1:04:35 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 He put up the income of all the different people that are working in California that ... And some of them were $250,000 a year.

Jimmy Dore 1:04:43 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 And there's no progress made, and every year the budget goes up.

Jimmy Dore 1:04:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 And we were watching