Joe Rogan Experience #1692 - Jason Wilson

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. JWJason Wilson0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Well, it's a pleasure to meet you, man.

   3. JWJason Wilson0:13

      Oh, it's a honor to meet you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Honor to meet you, too.

   5. JWJason Wilson0:15

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You know, I've, uh, paid attention to your videos and I ... You know, I follow you on Instagram. And so many times I've, I've watched your videos and said, "That's a authentic guy." Like, "I wanna meet that guy. I wanna talk to him." So I was real excited that you were willing to do this.

   7. JWJason Wilson0:31

      Oh, man. I was honored. You know, um ... Let me turn this, I guess.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      Yeah.

   9. JWJason Wilson0:34

      I was really honored, um, when I ... I reached out to you on Instagram. I was surprised that you were following me. I was blown away, man. I just has been, you know ... I've been watching you for a while, and I was just ... You know, when you offered for me to come here, man, I just was just ecstatic. So thanks, man. It's a honor to be here.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Oh, my pleasure. I, uh ... You know, I think one thing that young boys and, and men a- as well need in this world is guidance-

   11. JWJason Wilson0:58

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       ... and mentorship. And, uh, to get that from martial arts is, uh, one of the best ways and one of the most, uh, one of the most fulfilling and satisfying ways. So w- ... I, I found you from a video that a bunch of people sent me of you, uh, working with a young boy who was, uh, having a hard time, uh, dealing with th- the pain of, like, punching through a board. Y- you know the video.

   13. JWJason Wilson1:21

       Yes, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       And just the way you were communicating with him and letting him know that it's okay to cry and that ... You know, just express yourself. And it was refreshing, and it was authentic, but it was also like ... You could tell, like, that kid is gonna get a lot out of that exchange. And I was like, "I wanna meet that guy."

   15. JWJason Wilson1:36

       Well, yeah, man. I mean, that video opened my mind up to really what men we're dealing with inside. Because when that video went viral, our offices at our nonprofit had to shut down.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       Really?

   17. JWJason Wilson1:47

       Okay, so the Cave of Adullam, the martial arts program you're speaking of, is under the umbrella of our nonprofit, The Union. And so when this video went viral, my wife calls me, who is our executive director. She says, "Jason, is there a video that's going viral?" And I'm like, "What do you mean?" 2016, I didn't really understand the terminology. And sure enough, this video started racking up a lot of views. Shortly thereafter, our phones wouldn't stop ringing. And it was men from all over the world, crying to our staff, calling in crying, saying, "I want to be free. I'm tired of holding all of this in. I wish my coach would have talked to me that way when I was going through ..."

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:25

       Yeah, there it is right there.

   19. JWJason Wilson2:26

       "... a lot." Yeah, that's it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:28

       Well, it's, it's hard to find a good mentor. And I think every man needs a mentor. And, you know, one of the things that martial arts does that I think is really important is it gives you these goals to work towards as you move through a belt system or whatever kind of system that e- each martial art that's different has.

   21. JWJason Wilson2:50

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:51

       As you develop your skills and you, you, you get more proficient and you improve, you, you have, like, tangible progress and you can see it. And I think there's a lot of people that go through life not exactly sure where they stand-

   23. JWJason Wilson3:06

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       ... where they're at.

   25. JWJason Wilson3:07

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:07

       And I think martial arts provides you with real feedback in one of the most ... I think one of the most emotionally and physically difficult things that a person can do.

   27. JWJason Wilson3:17

       Yes. And so many people don't realize, the young boy in that video, Bruce, he was actually had a, a fear of failure. He had broke that board easily the week prior. But because of this test and the pressure and everyone watching, he just froze on his non-dominant hand and he couldn't break through. So he broke down crying. And I wel- welcomed his tears and said, "Look, we cry as men." You know, "Let this go." And men ... And I love about martial arts more than sports, it makes you face your fears. And nothing like if a punch is coming at you, or kick, or if you're grappling and you're concerned if someone's gonna take your back and choke you, I apply all these principles in life as well. And so when you give a man or a male a safe space to really be emotional and let go of anxiety that he feels every day, the father wound, his fear of failure, his lack of confidence, where he can have a moment ... We call it a moment on the mat, where you can stop the training and you can express what's overwhelming you in that moment, they transform instantly, man, and this a ... It's a great thing to see. And I've never seen anything work like the arts. Even with my son, he's 13 years old. You saw him, you know, 6'1 and a half. Everyone says, "You're gonna play basketball." And it's like, "No, it's other things that I want to do." And so even with sports, I say, "Son, it'll give you some confidence." But when we spar, we, we training, the anxiety he feels, the voices, "Oh man, uh, Chris hit you again. What are you gonna do about that? How you gonna maneuver? How you gonna respond?" And I allow him to break down in that moment. I say, "Okay, cool. Now it's time to recover. Reflect on it. What's the lie? What's the truth? Do you think this man is not supposed to hit you? He's a skilled fighter. The goal is not for you to be the best. The goal is for you to learn."

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JWJason Wilson4:59

       All right? So when I give them that freedom to feel, to feel the fear, now they're not ... They don't succumb to it when it really happens in real life. And so that's why I love the arts, especially the grappling arts, which I hate I didn't discover till later in my training, because nothing like someone invading your space.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JWJason Wilson15:00

      he's Bruce Banner right in the middle. That's how big he is, and he's like 270 pounds. He literally can roll with you and lay on you and you probably couldn't breathe 'cause he knows how to add the press- p- the pressure on you.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:12

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JWJason Wilson15:12

      But, uh, we would talk like, "Man, you know, why do we shrink back?" You know, we think, well, man, the only reason you won is 'cause you bigger. And so what if I'm bigger? Your job is to beat me. I remember I was rolling with one guy. He says, "Well, how much do you weigh? You outweigh me by 50 pounds." But yet, Fabio Lima, who's another instructor in Detroit, he's half my size and taps me.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:36

      Hmm.

   5. JWJason Wilson15:37

      You understand?

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:37

      Yeah, for sure.

   7. JWJason Wilson15:38

      And so, yeah, you see it in jujitsu all the time. But big guys, it's like you're supposed to win, you're big. So, when you lose, it's twice as worse, you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:47

      Well, it is important for big guys to learn what it's like to face other big guys as well. If you're in a big-

   9. JWJason Wilson15:52

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       ... a big guy in an academy that only has small people, you get a very false sense of security.

   11. JWJason Wilson15:57

       (laughs) Absolutely, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       And then all of a sudden someone comes along and rag dolls you, and you're like, you're not-

   13. JWJason Wilson16:02

       What-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       ... accustomed to that.

   15. JWJason Wilson16:03

       (laughs) It, I mean, like I said, that happened my first, like, experience with jujitsu. The guy was my size. So, I'm coming, thinking I'm gonna do certain locks, arm bar, 'cause again, at the time, I wasn't used to applying it against real resistance.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JWJason Wilson16:15

       So, you look sweet if everyone is a rag doll.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Right.

   19. JWJason Wilson16:17

       I can go through techniques and demos, and you look really great.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       Right, if no one's resisting.

   21. JWJason Wilson16:21

       Yeah, but what happens when they're trying to stop you?

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       Yeah, that's a problem with a lot of those sort of combinatory martial arts where they take a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

   23. JWJason Wilson16:30

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:30

       And then they do drills.

   25. JWJason Wilson16:31

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       It's like you learn the movements of the drills.

   27. JWJason Wilson16:33

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       But you don't learn when someone's actually resisting against you.

   29. JWJason Wilson16:36

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       And that's, that's aikido in a lot of ways.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Wouldn't it be nice…

   1. JWJason Wilson30:00

      on the floor, several friends of mine get shot and die, and my best friend at the time in high school gets shot in the head. All of this stuff had shaped my mind in a way where I didn't really expect anything good to happen. And so because of that, being only a masculine male for me was perfect, because I could stay in f- fight or flight. I can guard myself. I didn't have to show any weakness.But when I allowed myself to feel, when I allowed myself, um, to really be what I didn't see, so you say, how did I develop the curriculum of The Cave? All I am to these boys, all I am to men like yourself, I became what I desired. I always wanted a male in my life that I can look up to, trust, and be a mentor, or be a mentor to me. Someone that I can confide in who wouldn't condemn me when I fail. That's all I am, Joe. And then, things I couldn't deny, like I hated the church. Like, with a passion. Uh, Jehovah's Witnesses would come to my door. I would study the Bible just to dog them, just to put them in check. Then I studied Egyptology, Hinduism, everything. And I said, "Okay, cool." I said, "God, if you're real, show me." (sighs) A friend of mine who was in the NBA, well, he's retired now, we were going to the studio. I used to produce music as well. And, uh, he says, "I can't drive, but you can take the car to the studio." I drive the truck, going on the freeway, a car stalls in front of me. So I swerve to get out of the way. It was a 4Runner, which was top-heavy at the time. The car- truck flips over two times and lands back on all four. They rushed me to the hospital, and here he come. He's the number one draft pick at the time. He comes in the hospital screaming and crying like, "Where, where is Jason?" He comes at me. I says, "Dude, I'm all right. Trust me. It's cool." He was like, "No, you don't understand. My mother told me this was gonna happen. That's why I didn't drive the car." I said, "Okay, cool." Yeah-

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:10

      Wouldn't it be nice if he told you?

   3. JWJason Wilson32:11

      Yeah, exactly. (laughs) Exactly, dude.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:14

      (laughs)

   5. JWJason Wilson32:14

      And so, that's a whole 'nother conversation.

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:17

      That's another conversation.

   7. JWJason Wilson32:18

      But he- I, I, I don't know if he believed it either.

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:20

      Oh, that's funny.

   9. JWJason Wilson32:20

      You know, but h- but for his sake, like, "I don't wanna take chances, but you can go."

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:25

       Right. Wow.

   11. JWJason Wilson32:26

       I asked his mother, I said, "Did that happen? Is that true?" She was like, "Yeah." That still wasn't enough for me. That was just a coincidence. I got so many stories, but the one that really transformed my life, I'm working at Coca-Cola. 12-hour days, I'm angry, and my wife calls me and says, "Don't lose the faith." I said, "If God is real, why am I in here all these hours, and he- I have all of this talent, and I'm just driving a forklift?" I said, "He's fake." And I studied Egyptology, I said, "The only sun that's coming through the clouds is the sun." And we- in Egyptology, that was Ra, the sun god. And I hung up. Within 10 minutes, I go to unload the pallets off of this truck and the driver didn't chalk his brakes. The weight of the high-low pushed the truck bed away, and I dropped with the high-low to the ground, two herniated discs in my back. I fall to the ground, I look up to the sky, I said, "Okay, you got my attention. I'll never go against you again." My son you see in that lobby, my wife had five miscarriages after our daughter, and I'd, uh, after my father died in 2007, I was in the shower and, um, heard the Lord say to me, he says, "Hey, after you, there is no more." I said, "Okay, what does that mean?" Took me to Abraham. Rich, no children, so when he died, all of his wealth goes to a servant. I get out the shower, I look to my wife, I said, "Nicole, do you pray for a child, specifically a boy?" She says, "Yeah." And I get angry, because my wife almost died from, uh, she got pregnant before little Jay, and she has a bicornuate uterus. I hope I'm saying it correctly. Where the egg went into a uterus that wasn't productive. So if the child would've been born, my wife would've died, and the baby. So, they were able to catch it. So we had, she had to have another, uh, she had another miscarriage. They had to stitch up this bicornuate uterus, but she could get pregnant, but again, she could deal with the same issue of dying because she only has half of her uterus. So, I prayed with her. Two weeks later, she gets pregnant. At the five-month mark, Joe, I'm getting her something to eat. She calls me screaming and crying. I said, "What's going on?" Sharp pains in her stomach. I said, "We about to lose another child." I knew we shouldn't have got pregnant. I go home. As I'm going home, a car pulls up to me. This older white woman, she looks at me. She says, "Hey, um, do you know where such and such is? I can't remember." And I told her. She says, "Oh, by the way, don't lose the faith." I said, "What?" She says, "Don't lose faith. It's gonna be okay."

   12. JRJoe Rogan35:20

       Just randomly.

   13. JWJason Wilson35:21

       Straight up, man. You know, so those things, I couldn't question. We go to the hospital, it's her appendix had ruptured. The doctor said the timing was so perfect, it was scary. Only at that time in her pregnancy could he take my son out, then remove her appendix and put him back.

   14. JRJoe Rogan35:40

       (sighs) He took him out and put him back?

   15. JWJason Wilson35:43

       Yes, yes, man. And so I'm like... So imagine now, my son is in her. We don't... All these drugs going in my wife for pain, and we're like, "God..."

   16. JRJoe Rogan35:52

       Right.

   17. JWJason Wilson35:53

       When he was born, I didn't want to name him Jason, 'cause the name Jason means healer. And if you're a healer-

   18. JRJoe Rogan35:59

       It does?

   19. JWJason Wilson35:59

       Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I know being a healer, it comes with great pain. So you have to be able to identify with people. So I said, "I'm not naming him Jason. I'm gonna name him Jase." When I saw his face and he was crying, I cried so much at the sight of him, the nurses and the doctor were crying. And I heard The Most High say, "His name is Jason. It's gonna be tough, but that's his name." So it brings me to this place in my life where-... I run into people that are hurting. Last night, I'm at a restaurant here, my waitress is smiling the entire time and I'm like, "Wow, she's r- ... That's a ... She's a happy person." But me dealing with people, I know she's smiling 'cause she's hurting. Within seconds of our conversation, her eyes start watering and I say, "What's going on?" I said, "You're hurting, aren't you?" She just ... Her mother died of cancer, it was her best friend. Her father had cancer. Her siblings are all falling out because of that. She's running from job to job, going from state to state to state. She's running from her trauma and I says, "You're gonna have to let go and face it." And I told her, I says, "Don't allow your trauma to time travel." That's what we do. We allow the things in the past to visit our present and so it affects us from living free in the moment. And I hugged her and she really appreciated that I didn't just eat my dinner and walk out. She says, "No one stopped me to say that." And she thanked me. So those things, my man, I just ... All of that cumulated into me creating The Cave. I, I basically, I try, I try to be a healer for, for boys and men, to help you work through what's hurting, to get you past this facade of just always being strong. You know some of the greatest fighters in the world. No one can be strong all the time. You know, we'll say to each other, "Stay strong, bro." We're subconsciously telling each other that when you feel weak, something's wrong with you.

   20. JRJoe Rogan38:14

       Yeah, the facade thing I think is very important for people to hear and talk about-

   21. JWJason Wilson38:17

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan38:17

       ... because men do like to put up that facade that they're never vulnerable, there's never anything wrong. And they ... Everyone knows it's bullshit. You know?

   23. JWJason Wilson38:28

       It is.

   24. JRJoe Rogan38:28

       Other men know it's not true.

   25. JWJason Wilson38:30

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan38:30

       So you're not tricking anybody.

   27. JWJason Wilson38:32

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan38:32

       You know, you just ... You're posturing. And when you're posturing, it's really a weakness. It's ... Your-

   29. JWJason Wilson38:36

       Yes, sir.

   30. JRJoe Rogan38:36

       There's more strength in just being who you are. And just because you have vulnerable moments or just because you're emotional or just because you're sad, it doesn't mean you're weak.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   And they'll snap. …

   1. JWJason Wilson45:00

      stick. And, you know, uh, men I talk to allow someone to say sly remarks to them in public and they won't say anything. Then they come home and their wife just asks a simple question about just anything-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      And they'll snap.

   3. JWJason Wilson45:16

      And they snap.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      Yeah.

   5. JWJason Wilson45:17

      And so many good men feel it's wrong to check someone in the midst of a conversation in a respectful way. Uh, one thing I had to learn, Joe, I love fine dining and my wife, we both loving going out and enjoying each other's company. The worst thing that can happen is to have a waiter or waitress who is not good or just having a bad day. I typically, uh, prior to now, I would leave. You know, we would have a bad experience and on the way home, I would be angry in the car that I allowed that to happen. So now when I see a waitress who appears to be having a bad day or a waiter, I say, "Excuse me." I say, "It seems like, you know, you're not having a good day today, so can you please, uh, shift us, switch us with someone else? Because me and my wife are paying for a great experience." Almost always they say, "Well, I'm sorry, sir. Can, uh, can I try again?" I say, "Sure, but can you tell me what's going on?" It's amazing, man, what... The stories you will hear, the weight that they carry just being a waiter or waitress and they have to put all of that aside just to make us have a great experience. And so I give them the freedom to talk and share with me. One guy asked me to pray. And I said, "Well, I don't want to be disrespectful of this establishment," so me and my wife grabbed our menus and we were acting like we were ordering and I was praying for this young kid 'cause he was stressed because he didn't think he could get into college.

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:42

      Hm.

   7. JWJason Wilson46:43

      And so he couldn't perform his job well. But what if these people, especially men, knew it's okay for me to feel this way, but I need to release it before these thoughts make me toxic?

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:54

      But, uh, just to have the tools to deal with, uh, adverse moments in your life.

   9. JWJason Wilson46:59

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:59

       And have the tools to deal with emotions. You know, um, the thing that you were talking about with the samurais, what... Have you ever read, uh, Miyamoto Musashi's writings?

   11. JWJason Wilson47:10

       Book of Five Rings?

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:11

       Yeah.

   13. JWJason Wilson47:11

       Absolutely.

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       One of the beautiful things about it is, uh, this is probably one of the greatest assassins the world's ever known. I mean, he was a, a man who killed more than 60 men, one-on-one sword fights.

   15. JWJason Wilson47:25

       Yes. Yes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:25

       But his whole approach to everything was balance. That you, you must have balance. There w- there cannot be these moments where you are overwhelmed with emotion because that's how you die. That's how you make mistakes. And you cannot make mistakes in sword fighting. In every other situation, if you make a mistake in jujitsu, perhaps you could use good defense-

   17. JWJason Wilson47:48

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:48

       ... so you can get out of a bad situation.

   19. JWJason Wilson47:50

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:50

       You know, you maybe get caught and someone takes you back. You're like, "Oh, I know what I did there. I, I muscled it. I rushed it." You cannot do that in sword fighting. And so because of that, he developed this incredibly balanced perspective that many samurai shared, that he studied calligraphy, he studied poetry. He, he would... Yeah.

   21. JWJason Wilson48:10

       Tea.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:11

       Yes. Yes.

   23. JWJason Wilson48:11

       You know, that's an art as well.

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:12

       Yes. Yes.

   25. JWJason Wilson48:13

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:13

       Yeah. And that all these things, the, the discipline to be delicate, the discipline to understand, uh, beauty in nature and beauty in prose, and that this was what made him balanced. That he was not a brute.

   27. JWJason Wilson48:28

       Mm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:29

       That he was, he was in control of all aspects of his life.

   29. JWJason Wilson48:35

       Mm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:35

       And that he approached them all with equal focus and discipline.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   I let my trauma-…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      with just old thoughts.

   2. JWJason Wilson1:00:01

      I let my trauma-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      Yeah.

   4. JWJason Wilson1:00:03

      ... time travel.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:04

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JWJason Wilson1:00:04

      And I had to stop that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      Yeah.

   8. JWJason Wilson1:00:06

      And it's a process. Men say, "Well, man, how did, how did you get here?" I said, "Man, I'm a work in progress, man." That's why I stay transparent on social media. Um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Yeah. All of us are, right?

   10. JWJason Wilson1:00:16

       Uh, yeah, I'm trying to grow. I don't want you to look at me like I've got it. I don't. I'm, I'm aiming for that. It's a constant continuous process of growing-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JWJason Wilson1:00:26

       ... learning, and keep growing. And, um, when men see that, and I'm really encouraged, uh, when I get stopped. I was just in Santa Monica, California with my wife, and I hear someone say, "Man, I love your videos." And I said, "Nicole, did you hear that?" And she was like, "Yeah." I said, "I wonder if they're talking to me," but we kept driving. It was a police officer on the bike.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

       (laughs)

   14. JWJason Wilson1:00:48

       He rides a Hispanic brother. He says, "Hey, I love what you're doing. Thank you. It helps me make it through my day."

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       Oh.

   16. JWJason Wilson1:00:55

       Before I pull off, Joe, a group of white young kids pull up next to me. Had to be like 21 max. "I love what you're doing. Thank you."I said, "All right, cool. Thank you for stopping, because it encourages me to not give up." So people don't understand with me, and I'll be transparent with you, what I do with boys, what I do desiring to help men and families, I love it, but it comes... It's a heavy weight. Um, my desire was never to be here on your show or anything, viral videos or anything. I just wanted to shine my light in such a way that those who are in darkness can find their way out.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

       What's heavy about it, when you say it's a heavy weight?

   18. JWJason Wilson1:01:38

       The compassion fatigue, man. Meaning-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JWJason Wilson1:01:40

       ... um, that's what nurses experience, or doctors, at war. When you're constantly taking in trauma or people who are heartbroken, like the waitress last night, my heart, man, it breaks for people. So when you really care or you love hard, like I do, you, you get worn out.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:59

       Yeah.

   22. JWJason Wilson1:02:00

       And then, you know... I'm not religious, man. I'm not... Y- y- that tradit- all that stuff, I- I'm experiential with Yahusha or Yeshua, Jesus, who they call Jesus. I, I live it. You know my faith by what I do, not by what I say.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JWJason Wilson1:02:18

       And so because I do it, I take on a lot, man. And my wife, thank God I have her, she prays for me, she covers me, I can cry to her. She caresses my scalp because she knows I'm constantly under attack spiritually. I could build a rocket ship out of wood, no gas, and it'd... I have no difficulty in doing it. But let me try to teach, train, and transform boys. Let me try to stop a man from divorcing his wife or, uh, abusing his wife. Let me try to help, uh, uh, men, uh, express themselves in good ways, where they're no longer toxic to society.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:03

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JWJason Wilson1:03:04

       I catch it every day.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:07

       What do you do to try to mitigate that? What do you do to try to relax when you are dealing with sort of the compassion fatigue, when you're, you're... I mean, you're on... Obviously, you're on a path-

   28. JWJason Wilson1:03:17

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:18

       ... and that path resonates. It's why I reached out to you.

   30. JWJason Wilson1:03:21

       Yeah.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:18:20

   Yeah. …

   1. JWJason Wilson1:15:01

      And I get why I'm in this place and position (sniffs) and why I can't run from it, and I'm not. Um, but, you know, it gets hard. But that's what I'm saying, so things like this is something that encourage me to keep going. When men stop me and say, "Hey, man, you know, I was gonna get divorced, man, and I saw this video. And I, I wanted to ... Or I bought your book. I learned how to cry, and I want to wage and win the war within. How do I do these things?" It's just gas in my tank. "Keep going. I know it's hard."

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:35

      Yeah.

   3. JWJason Wilson1:15:35

      "Keep going." The training, so much has been taken away from me, Joe (sniffs) . Um, my mother, my friends, my brothers. Um, I love martial arts. Um, torn meniscus. Uh, my fibula head is unstable. It pops out when I'm in a kneeling position. The pain. It's like, "My God." You know what I'm saying? It's like these things I love, and it's like, "Focus on what you can do."

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:16:04

      Your fibular head is unstable?

   5. JWJason Wilson1:16:06

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:16:06

      And w- what is, uh, what happens?

   7. JWJason Wilson1:16:08

      So, when I get to a low position, just say if you're grappling-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:16:11

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JWJason Wilson1:16:12

      ... or if you're just in a kneeling position, soon as I stand up, man, it just pops out a socket.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:17

       Hmm.

   11. JWJason Wilson1:16:17

       And then it pops back in. (sniffs) And-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:20

       When, when you look at the structure of the knee, where's the damage at?

   13. JWJason Wilson1:16:24

       It's, um, right on the side. You know, where the ... Uh, I- it's just a f- Right on the side of the knee, the fibula head-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:30

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JWJason Wilson1:16:30

       ... is right there, and so ... But the meniscus is torn, but that there, it makes it worse. And then I have, I forgot, a Baker cyst as well, which one therapist believes that is causing a lot. And so-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:41

       Yeah, I'm sure. The cyst is ... So what ... The cyst is, is bleeding inside. A lot of that happens from a meniscus tear.

   17. JWJason Wilson1:16:47

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:48

       Um, so you can get that drained. I've had cysts drained. I've, I've had my right knee drained, like, 15 times.

   19. JWJason Wilson1:16:55

       Okay.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16:55

       Uh, I tore my meniscus a couple years ago in my right knee and I had it drained a bunch of times. Doesn't, doesn't happen anymore.

   21. JWJason Wilson1:17:02

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:17:02

       It's, it's sort of stopped. I had a bunch of stem cell shots in there.

   23. JWJason Wilson1:17:05

       Okay.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:17:05

       But, uh, you can do some things to strengthen the knee that'll keep it from, uh, being so instable. There's a, uh ... I'm bringing this guy up again. I bring him up all the time. Uh, KneesOverToesGuy on Instagram has a amazing, um, workout. You ever seen him?

   25. JWJason Wilson1:17:21

       I got that from you. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:17:22

       Yeah, there you go. (laughs)

   27. JWJason Wilson1:17:24

       (laughs) And I've, I-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:17:24

       He's amazing.

   29. JWJason Wilson1:17:25

       Y- Yeah, he is.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:17:25

       I did that today. I did his workout this morning, actually.

Episode duration: 2:56:23