Joe Rogan Experience #1699 - Meghan Murphy

1. 0:00 – 4:18

   Meeting Meghan Murphy & the infamous Mexican raicilla tasting

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hello.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy0:13

      Hi.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Welcome.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy0:15

      Thank you.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy0:17

      I'm ... Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Very nice to meet you.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy0:18

      It's great to meet you. I'm really excited to be here.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       We've talked about you, uh, eight or 10 times.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy0:23

       I know, it drives-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Yeh-

   13. MMMeghan Murphy0:23

       ... me crazy.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       Does it?

   15. MMMeghan Murphy0:24

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       (laughs)

   17. MMMeghan Murphy0:26

       I'm like, "I want to talk too." (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       W- what, what is your impression of the way people are interpreting what happened to you?

   19. MMMeghan Murphy0:34

       Uh, well, I was really frustrated when Jack, and ... I don't know how to say her name properly, and I'm gonna muck it up. Jack and, um, the head of safety-

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       Vidya? Is that how you say it?

   21. MMMeghan Murphy0:43

       Vidya?

   22. NANarrator0:44

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Vidya. Yes. Let's, let's tell, tell people the story what happened.

   24. MMMeghan Murphy0:48

       Okay.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       You want some of this?

   26. MMMeghan Murphy0:49

       Yes. Okay. So let me-

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       I brought this from Mexico. Yeah, go ahead.

   28. MMMeghan Murphy0:50

       This is my favorite booze, and not just my favorite Mexican booze, my all-time favorite booze. And (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Whoosh.

   30. MMMeghan Murphy0:58

       And nobody likes it except for me.
2. 4:18 – 7:22

   Why Meghan says she was targeted: Canada’s Bill C-16 and gender-identity law

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      So y- um, let's go to your story.

   2. MMMeghan Murphy4:21

      Okay, okay, okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:21

      So like explain to everybody what happened with you.

   4. MMMeghan Murphy4:23

      Okay. Um, well, I mean, I'm not sure how ba- how far back you want me to start, but-

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:28

      Let's ... How ... You getting kicked off Twitter, let's ...

   6. MMMeghan Murphy4:31

      Okay. So I mean, I was one of the only people in Canada who was talking about gender identity critically. Um, I'm not saying that to big myself up. It was very annoying 'cause I obviously was like targeted. So there was Jordan Peterson, um, who spoke out, and then there was me, and then there was like a couple other people. And I was pretty vocal about it. Um, I first started talking about it back in like 2016, 2017 because the liberal government was pushing through Bill C-16, which was our gender identity legislation. Um, so they were, they were trying to, and succeeded in, 'cause the bill passed, incorporate gender identity into the, um, human rights code, um, and the criminal code. And I went and testified against that bill to say like, "This bill shouldn't pass. Um, it'll have a negative impact on women's rights," which of course it did.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:25

      For people who don't know what the bill, what it means, could you ... Should we explain what it means?

   8. MMMeghan Murphy5:30

      I-

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:30

      'Cause some folks aren't hip to the argument.

   10. MMMeghan Murphy5:32

       Right. Sorry. I shouldn't ... ..........................

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       And also that Canada ... We should explain. Canada does not have a First Amendment, so you don't have freedom of speech over there.

   12. MMMeghan Murphy5:38

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       You have a human rights council, right? So, and then if laws violate ... If, uh, rather some of your speech violates the laws that they put in place, you can literally be arrested.

   14. MMMeghan Murphy5:52

       Yeah, you can ... You go through a human rights tribunal. Um-And so, I mean, the law didn't actually ... It was very vague. Like, it didn't specifically say, for example, you know, if you misgender somebody, that's a hate crime or hate speech or something like that. All it did was to say that gender identity and ex- and gender expression essentially needed to be protected under the law just like whatever race, um, other sort of marginalized identities or whatever. Um, and what we thought would happen, which did happen, is that it would sort of direct policy, um, and it would mean that, you know, anybody could use any bathroom or change room. It would mean that men would have to be allowed in transition houses and women's shelters if they identified as women. Um, it would mean that men could be transferred to female prisons if they identified as women. Essentially, like, to me, the concept of gender identity nullifies sex. Like, you can't have both. You can't say ... Either you are a woman, and you're a woman because you're female, or you identify as a woman. You can't, you can't do both. And then anybody, of course, can identify as a woman. Um, I'm sort of going about this a long way. But, um, yeah. I was just worried about the implications. Uh, I testified at the Senate. Jordan Peterson testified. (laughs) Are you okay?

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       Yeah, I just took another sip.

   16. MMMeghan Murphy7:22

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       Whew.

3. 7:22 – 14:01

   Twitter lockouts and the permanent ban: ‘Men aren’t women’ and misgendering rules

   1. MMMeghan Murphy7:22

      And so essentially, like, I was the loudest feminist voice in Canada, um, by far. And I was tweeting about these issues. Um, I was asking questions about gender identity. I was sort of saying like, "What does this mean?" Like, I said ... One of the tweets that I- my account was locked down for was, um, "What's the difference between a man and a trans woman?" Um, and I wasn't saying that to try to be rude.

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:49

      Right.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy7:49

      Um, I was saying, was like, "Somebody please explain what happens to m- uh, a man between him being a man and then him being a trans woman." Do you know what I mean? Like, if he hasn't had any surgeries or anything-

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:02

      Right.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy8:02

      ... like that, not that I think that a surgery can change your sex, but like, what is it? So now, yesterday he was a man. Today, he identifies a- as a woman or a trans woman. What's happened here? (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:14

      Right.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy8:14

      Like, what does this mean? Like, it- it was just so nonsensical. It's just a, a belief system, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:19

      Well, it can get even worse, right? But you- you can decide to go back and forth throughout the day.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy8:24

      Yeah. I- I mean, you can-

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:25

       People have ... They've allowed that. This is, this is also accepted. Like, you, you can be gender-fluid, and you can be gender-fluid depending upon your mood multiple times a day.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy8:37

       Right. And th- and yeah. And that's what the concept of gender identity does. It's just an identity. It's just something you say.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       Right.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy8:45

       Like, it could be something you feel, but it's just a proclamation. There's no material reality involved. There's nothing concrete. There's nothing you can-

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Right.

   15. MMMeghan Murphy8:54

       ... point to. Um, you know, essentially, like it's a- it's akin to a religion as far as I'm concerned. It's faith-based, right? Um, so, you know, I feel like these laws are in a way sort of enforcing religion on people. Like, it's like they're enforcing this like faith-based-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:12

       Woke religion.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy9:13

       Yeah. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       Yeah.

   19. MMMeghan Murphy9:14

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       Yeah, in a lot of ways.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy9:15

       I mean, you could call it progressive, but it's of course not progressive. It's just weird and nonsensical and has a terrible impact on women. But, um, so one of the tweets that I was locked down for was that one, you know, "What's the difference between a man and a trans woman?" Um-

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       Y- and just a question?

   23. MMMeghan Murphy9:32

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:32

       And so they suspended you for that.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy9:34

       So they, yeah, they locked down my account, and they were like, "You have to delete this tweet if you want your account back." I appealed it. It was ... Every time I've appealed anything, it's just been totally ignored. They don't explain why. They never tell me what rules I break either-

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Right.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy9:46

       ... or did break, right? Like, they never said ... They say hateful conduct, but they don't say, "Oh, it's this specific rule. Like, you're not allowed to misgender or deadname," or whatever it would be.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:58

       Right.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy9:58

       I mean, I don't even know what rule that would break, saying like, "What's the difference between a man and a trans woman?" Um, the other tweet of course was, "Men aren't women."

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:07

       Yeah.
4. 14:01 – 18:03

   The Jessica Yaniv case and why Meghan says misgendering enforcement protects bad actors

   1. MMMeghan Murphy14:01

      Speaking of which, um, (laughs) the, the final tweet that I was actually banned for. So they locked me down for those two things, right? And then the final straw for them was when I said, "Yeah, it's him," in reference to Jessica Yaniv, who was once Jonathan, um, if you recall. He was the, the man in Vancouver who was going around to local estheticians and asking them to give him a Brazilian bikini wax.

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:28

      Yeah.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy14:28

      Um, and he is fully a man. I mean-

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:32

      Fully a man, intact testicles, intact penis.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy14:35

      Yeah, everything. I mean-

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:36

      Beard. Yeah.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy14:37

      And also a crazy person.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:39

      A crazy person.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy14:39

      And a major fucking creep. Like, and he's messaging these women on Face- Facebook, um, I think sometimes under like a fake photo and name, so maybe with like a woman's photo and woman's name that's not him. And then they would realize that he was a man, I guess maybe if they talked to him on the phone or something like that, and they'd be like, "No, sorry, like we don't offer this service to men." And he would accuse them of transphobia and essentially try to extort money out of them. And when that didn't work, I guess he decided he wanted to, I mean, again, he's a crazy person, so we can't take this as representative of very much other than the fact that he's like a grifter and a crazy person, but you know, to take them all to the Human Rights Tribunal-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:17

       Yeah.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy15:18

       ... um, to say he's being discriminated against. But this is exactly, exactly the perfect example of what happens if you just say anybody's a woman, and you just have to accept it. He has a penis, he has balls, he obviously looks like a man. At that time, he was still using his male name, um, in various places, like on Facebook, some other places. I think on Twitter at that time he was, um, maybe using both names. Um, but it, there was, there was nothing to show me that he was a woman. So I said, "Yeah, it's him." I figured out that it was him. Um, and then-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       That was it.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy15:57

       ... I was permanently banned. Yeah. And that was in November. And that was it. I appealed, they were like, "Nope, sorry, hateful conduct." Again, didn't tell me what rule I broke. 20 minutes after I was banned, I was banned on Friday night, I was at the bar. I was like, "What the fuck?" (laughs) I'm trying to have fun. Um, 20 minutes after I was banned, Pink News, which is like a, like LGBT queer news site, um, they post an article saying (laughs) , "Twitter has a new rule against misgendering and deadnaming." And I was like, "Oh, this is a really funny coincidence that this went out 20 minutes after I was banned for some rule that they didn't specify, but I can only assume was misgendering."

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       Yeah. Misgendering.

   15. MMMeghan Murphy16:43

       Misgendering a man who's a predator and who was still going by his male name in various places on the internet.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       Whoops.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy16:50

       So I mean, he should have been banned too for misgendering himself.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       Good point.

   19. MMMeghan Murphy16:54

       Thank you.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       It's, it's just so weird, because it's the one area that there's no room for o- there's no room for interpretation. There's no room for debate or nuance. It's just like you cannot misgender, you cannot deadname, you cannot like...

   21. MMMeghan Murphy17:13

       And you're cruel and horrible if you do.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Yeah, they're cruel and horrible to you.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy17:18

       Well, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:19

       Yeah.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy17:19

       I mean, the things that people aren't banned for on Twitter, I mean, I have been like subject to countless death threats. Like, "You should die. You get the wall. You should go to the gulag." (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:29

       Yeah.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy17:29

       Like people sho- you know, like people-

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:31

       Imagine.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy17:31

       ... say horrible things to me online.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       Yeah.
5. 18:03 – 25:25

   From ‘TERF’ labels to Antifa analogies: tribal politics and social-media mob behavior

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:03

      Oh, that TERF is my favorite.

   2. MMMeghan Murphy18:04

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:04

      Trans exclusionary radical feminist.

   4. MMMeghan Murphy18:06

      Yeah, yeah. Which, I mean-

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:09

      (sighs) Oh, there's so many of those things that people love those little acronyms too, because it like makes them feel like they're a part of, like, some little group that knows these things, and other people don't know these things, and...

   6. MMMeghan Murphy18:20

      Yeah. And that, that acronym doesn't even make sense, because it's applied... Like I don't, I'm not a radical feminist. Um, I've never identified as a radical feminist. Um, I don't have anything against radical feminists, per se.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:32

      What is a radical feminist versus a regular feminist?

   8. MMMeghan Murphy18:35

      (sighs) Um, I mean technically the word radical is meant in this context to get at the root, so the difference... Radical feminists would say the difference between radical feminism and, like, liberal feminism would be that they want to upend the whole system of patriarchy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:55

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MMMeghan Murphy18:55

       Um, rather than just changing some of the surface things like legislation and things like that. They want to, they want there to be a revolution essentially.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:05

       Burn it all down.

   12. MMMeghan Murphy19:06

       Yeah. Kill, kill all men.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:06

       They're like the Antifa of feminists.

   14. MMMeghan Murphy19:08

       (laughs) I mean, I don't think most of them are violent, um, but be- some of them are probably violent, or some of them would want a violent revolution to overthrow the patriarchy.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       Even when Antifa's violent, they're violent l- like, you know, little small doughy people.

   16. MMMeghan Murphy19:23

       You just think that because you know that you could beat them up, but I don't think that when they're... (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:27

       You think they're violent?

   18. MMMeghan Murphy19:28

       Like yes. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:29

       Yeah. No, I think they're violent too.

   20. MMMeghan Murphy19:30

       I think they're quite scary and again, a lot of them seem really unstable. Um, like they've shown up at my events before to protest, um, and they're quite threatening and, you know, (sighs) I, I don't... I kind of do find them scary because I find them unhinged.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       Yeah.

   22. MMMeghan Murphy19:50

       And they obviously have perpetrated violence.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:52

       Yeah.

   24. MMMeghan Murphy19:52

       Like Antifa was responsible for a whole bunch of violence during all the BLM stuff in the summer.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Mm-hmm.

   26. MMMeghan Murphy19:58

       Um, and I, you know, am not as strong as you are because I'm female. I also don't work out as much as you, but (laughs) you know, like, if a scrawny like Antifa guy wanted to beat me up, he probably could.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:12

       Right. Yeah, it's, um... There's a weird like misfits revenge aspect to what they're doing.

   28. MMMeghan Murphy20:21

       Yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       Because they're all misfits. Y- they're all like either like really fat or really scrawny and really fucked up and they're wearing masks and screaming nonsensical shit. And loving the fact that they found others like them and that they're all willing to participate in this anarchy and trying to burn it all down. And because of their cute little name, anti-fascists, like how could you disagree with them? You're not a fascist are you?

   30. MMMeghan Murphy20:44

       Why, do you love fascism?
6. 25:25 – 31:51

   ‘Whorephobe’ controversy: porn/prostitution writing and the Nordic model debate

   1. MMMeghan Murphy25:25

      And they've been doing this to me forever. Like, this was a more famous moment, but when I was writing for this like Canadian left-wing progressive news site back in 2015, I was an editor there too actually, um, they started, these Toronto progressives started a petition to have me fired, um, and accused me of all sorts of things. They accused me of being whorephobic, you know, afraid of prostitutes. (laughs)

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:54

      You're a whorephobic? I never-

   3. MMMeghan Murphy25:56

      I'm not just a transphobe. I'm also a whorephobe.

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:59

      I never heard of that one before.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy26:01

      Yeah, this has been going on for a while.

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:02

      You're a whorephobe?

   7. MMMeghan Murphy26:03

      I'm not a whorephobe. But they... Okay, so-

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:07

      How'd you get labeled a whorephobe?

   9. MMMeghan Murphy26:07

      ... there is some context for this. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:09

       (laughs)

   11. MMMeghan Murphy26:10

       Because I'm scared of prostitutes. I'm joking. I don't have an irrational fear of prostitutes. Um, I... (laughs) So most of my work before I started writing about gender identity, I was writing about... Like, I've run a feminist website for 10 years now. Um, I would write mostly about, like, violence against women, domestic abuse, but I did a lot of writing around pornography and prostitution. And, um, you know, I'm opposed to the porn industry. I personally don't like porn, but I think the porn industry is like pretty disgusting and exploitative and unethical. I think it's obviously incredibly misogynistic. It's racist. Um, I think porn... I know you didn't ask me about this, but too bad. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:58

       (laughs)

   13. MMMeghan Murphy26:58

       Um, I think porn's bad for men. I think it's bad for relationships, um, for the most part. In any case, I did a lot of writing around pornography, um, about prostitution. I advocate for a model that's called the Nordic model, which, um, criminalizes essentially the exploiters. So, it criminalizes pimps, johns, brothel owners, traffickers, um, and decriminalizes the women. So, it sees women as essentially victims of prostitution for the most part. Of course, I'm aware that some women choose it, um, and tries to punish the people who take advantage of vulnerable women essentially. And this is why I was labeled a whorephobe.

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:43

       Hmm. Um-

   15. MMMeghan Murphy27:44

       And this is what the left was really angry at me about for the most part, but they also, of course, accused me of being like a white supremacist and a transphobe and everything else because they like to just pile everything.

   16. JRJoe Rogan27:54

       I was talking to my friend Ari about this, and he was saying that he knows people in New York specifically where girls have men that they have sex with for money. They, they've become friends with them and they have like these little relationship deals with them where they'll meet them and then they'll have, maybe these guys have other relationships or maybe these guys are really busy and they don't want a relationship for whatever reason. They just want to pay for sex and have it a clean transaction, and these women will do it with like several different guys, and that is how they get by.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy28:31

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan28:31

       And they like it. They don't have pimps. They don't have prostitutes. And this sounds very utopian, right? It sounds like very, like best case-

   19. MMMeghan Murphy28:39

       Perfect. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan28:39

       ... best case scenario for the girl, best case scenario for the guy. Like, we're just, we're painting this with rose-colored glasses, right? Like, everybody loves it. It's great. There's no, no icky side effects and there's no misogyny and there's no... Right.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy28:54

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan28:54

       In that scenario, are you okay with that?

   23. MMMeghan Murphy28:59

       So, okay, is not-

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:01

       Or is that-

   25. MMMeghan Murphy29:01

       I'm not gonna tell a woman not to do that.

   26. JRJoe Rogan29:03

       Right.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy29:04

       That's what she wants to do. That's her own prerogative. If it genuinely makes her happy, then go for it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan29:10

       If it's better than working at Wendy's.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy29:12

       Well, and it is better than working at Wendy's financially, probably. You know, I-

   30. JRJoe Rogan29:16

       Right.
7. 31:51 – 43:50

   Questioning feminism, hierarchy, and ‘patriarchy’ as a conversation-stopper

   1. MMMeghan Murphy31:51

      No, I appreciate it. And to be honest, like, I- (sighs) I'm totally changing the subject again. I'm sorry, I'm very bad at staying on track, but like, I started to question feminism and the work that I was doing because I started to feel like there were questions that I couldn't answer, and I wasn't being challenged enough. So, I- I appreciate you challenging me on this stuff, but I've sort of started to move away from feminism a bit in the past few years, partly 'cause I just felt like I was repeating myself over and over and over again, and like preaching to the choir, and none of these people were asking me any questions, and I was like, if I was having an argument with somebody who, like, didn't believe in patriarchy and they were like, "What's- what's a patriarchy?" (laughs) I was like, would I be able to answer that question? I don't actually think I can, so maybe I should stop saying this word over and over and over again.

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:42

      It's a word that sort of, uh, it's supposed to put the brakes in any argument, you know? Like, it's one of those words like-

   3. MMMeghan Murphy32:50

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:50

      ... because of the patriarchy.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy32:51

      Yeah, oh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:51

      Like, I had a-

   7. MMMeghan Murphy32:52

      ... 'cause of the patriarchy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:53

      Yeah.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy32:54

      Tell me about that, like...

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:56

       It's one of those things where, like, if you ask someone to define, like, what do you- what exactly do you mean by that?

   11. MMMeghan Murphy33:01

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Like, things can get real dicey.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy33:04

       And I couldn't, and I can't, and so I've stopped using that word.

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:08

       Well, the idea is that, like, men are controlling everything, right? Which is very disempowering for women, especially women that are very successful. It's like, how did they get there? Did they get there because men let 'em? Like, or did they get there because there are certain aspects of society that are a meritocracy?

   15. MMMeghan Murphy33:25

       And that should be a meritocracy, like-

   16. JRJoe Rogan33:27

       Yeah.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy33:27

       ... this is what I was saying about hierarchy, like it's like there are some people who are better at things than other people. There are some people who are better suited to be leaders. Um, i- it's not an equal playing field, and to pretend that it is-

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:40

       It's also not equal in the amount of effort that people put into things.

   19. MMMeghan Murphy33:42

       Totally.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:43

       Yeah.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy33:43

       Like if you wanna sit around in the house on your computer playing... (laughs) I was about to say video games because I'm 41 years old (laughs) and I was like, I don't think they're called video games anymore.

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:55

       They are.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy33:56

       Are they? Okay.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:56

       What are they called?

   25. MMMeghan Murphy33:57

       I don't know. I feel like there's another... Well, I obviously don't know.

   26. JRJoe Rogan34:01

       I think they're video games, they're just called video games, right? Yeah.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy34:03

       No, isn't it like... Okay.

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:05

       What else would you call them?

   29. MMMeghan Murphy34:06

       Uh...

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:08

       They're a video game.
8. 43:50 – 49:58

   Canada’s COVID restrictions, speech bills, and why Meghan left for Mexico

   1. JRJoe Rogan43:50

      So you went there as a tourist because you were kind of stuck in Can- Canada's lockdowns are fucking preposterous. And by the way, did you see Trudeau yesterday on TV, uh, using different pronouns to describe the recession and the recovery? Did you see-

   2. MMMeghan Murphy44:09

      Oh, like the shecession?

   3. JRJoe Rogan44:10

      Yeah. Did you see that?

   4. MMMeghan Murphy44:11

      Shecess- I didn't actually watch it, but I did-

   5. JRJoe Rogan44:13

      Go to Jordan Peterson's Instagram or his Twitter page, he retweeted it and said that this, this cannot be shared enough. Like, people need to understand how ridiculous this person is, but-

   6. MMMeghan Murphy44:24

      He's the worst.

   7. JRJoe Rogan44:25

      What is he doing though? Why would he do that? Like what, what's the motivation to do that? Is he just making up for all the times he wore a brown face?

   8. MMMeghan Murphy44:31

      (laughs) Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan44:32

      Like, what is...

   10. MMMeghan Murphy44:33

       He's, I mean, I don't know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan44:36

       'Cause he did wear it quite a bit, right?

   12. MMMeghan Murphy44:36

       I mean, a few times.

   13. JRJoe Rogan44:38

       (laughs)

   14. MMMeghan Murphy44:38

       But I mean, I, that's the thing I care about least-

   15. JRJoe Rogan44:41

       Least?

   16. MMMeghan Murphy44:41

       ... in terms of Trudeau.

   17. JRJoe Rogan44:42

       Yeah, yeah.

   18. MMMeghan Murphy44:42

       I mean-

   19. JRJoe Rogan44:43

       Here, l- let's hear this. Go- take it from the beginning, 'cause it's...

   20. NANarrator44:49

       It is exactly the example of the kinds of things you need to do to counter the she savi- the shecession and turn it into a shecovery.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy45:00

       (laughs)

   22. NANarrator45:00

       The fact is, uh, the Conservatives don't talk about that in their lengthy platform. It is-

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:07

       What?

   24. MMMeghan Murphy45:08

       Like, is it that the recession is sexist, so he's call- what the fuck is a shecession? Like, sec-

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       What does that mean?

   26. MMMeghan Murphy45:14

       I don't know. I think-

   27. JRJoe Rogan45:15

       Shecession and shecovery?

   28. MMMeghan Murphy45:18

       I think he's probably, I'm assuming-

   29. JRJoe Rogan45:20

       He's such a try hard.

   30. MMMeghan Murphy45:21

       He's such a loser. He's trying to say, like, maybe that women... Is he trying to say that women suffered more during COVID financially?
9. 49:58 – 55:38

   Vaccines, mandates, and alternative treatments: natural immunity, ivermectin, and health habits

   1. MMMeghan Murphy49:58

      No. I mean, people should be able to make their own choices-

   2. JRJoe Rogan50:01

      Yes.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy50:01

      ... about their health and their bodies, but beyond that, I mean, vaccine mandates don't even work. Like I think in Sweden, they've never had mandates, and yet more people are vaccinated in Sweden. Like they have a super high vaccination rate. I mean, when you're telling somebody, "You have to do this," I think there is gonna be some kinda questioning. Obviously not for a lot of people, who are like eagerly getting on board, but I mean, speaking personally, I'm much less likely to do something if someone tells me I have to. I'm gonna be like, "No, you don't tell me what to do. I'm gonna figure this out myself." Like why, why do I have to? Like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan50:33

      Yeah.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy50:33

      ... what's, what's, what's happening here?

   6. JRJoe Rogan50:35

      Well, here's my main problem with it. There's a lot of people that have gone through COVID already, and they have natural immunity, and they're telling them they have to be vaccinated too. But that's not logical, it's not rational, and it doesn't ... It's not supported by science. This doesn't make sense.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy50:52

      No. None of it makes sense. Um, and, you know, and Trudeau just announced the other day that all, uh, government employees essentially were gonna have to be vaccinated to work. Um-

   8. JRJoe Rogan51:04

      What about government employees that have gotten COVID and recovered?

   9. MMMeghan Murphy51:08

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan51:08

       They have antibodies.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy51:09

       But also, you can't say, "You can only have a job, i.e., you can only survive if you get this vaccine." I mean, why is ... Is this, uh, is this legal?

   12. JRJoe Rogan51:19

       Well, not only that. It's not really a vaccine in the traditional sense. A vaccine is where they take a dead virus and they turn it into a vaccine, and they inject it into your body so that your body fights off, it develops the antibodies and y- your body understands what, what that is, whether it's the measles or polio. It knows how to fight it off. This is really gene therapy. It's a different thing. It's your body ... It's tricking your body into producing spike protein and, and making these antibodies for, for COVID, but it's only good for a few months, like what they're finding out now. The efficacy wanes after five or six months. I'm not saying that people shouldn't take it, but I'm saying you're calling it a thing that it's not. It's not exactly what you're saying it is, and you're mandating people take it. And-

   13. MMMeghan Murphy52:07

       Well-

   14. JRJoe Rogan52:07

       ... there's no repercussions if they have any side effects. There's nothing they can do about it.

   15. MMMeghan Murphy52:12

       Yeah. And I mean, I just ... I think most people probably don't ... I mean, I've, I've, I've gotten a flu shot once in my entire life, and it wasn't because I was like scared of getting the flu. I think I w- I've just ne- I've never really thought about vaccines that much before, to be honest. Like so I was just like, "Okay, sure. I guess I'll get them." And I was at the doctor's office and she was like, "Do you want a flu shot?" And I was like, "Oh, okay. Sure." (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan52:36

       Yeah.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy52:36

       But I'm not ... You know. I'd never got flu shots before that. Like I'm healthy, I have a strong immune system. I'm not worried about getting sick. I'm not worried about COVID. Why do I need a vaccine? Like why do, why do young-

   18. JRJoe Rogan52:48

       The idea is that you're gonna-

   19. MMMeghan Murphy52:48

       ... healthy people need a vaccine?

   20. JRJoe Rogan52:50

       The idea is that you're gonna give it to other people and you're gonna spread it. The problem with that is-

   21. MMMeghan Murphy52:53

       But they have a vaccine, so why am I giving it to them?

   22. JRJoe Rogan52:56

       Here's the problem. The problem with that is even when you're vaccinated, you can get it and you can spread it. So-

   23. MMMeghan Murphy53:02

       So-

   24. JRJoe Rogan53:02

       ... none of this makes sense.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy53:03

       No. So there's no-

   26. JRJoe Rogan53:03

       The only thing that does-

   27. MMMeghan Murphy53:04

       ... point in any of this.

   28. JRJoe Rogan53:05

       Th- th- that's ... The, the only thing that is true is that if you're vaccinated, you have a better time recovering from COVID.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy53:13

       They should try ivermectin.

   30. JRJoe Rogan53:15

       Should they?
10. 55:38 – 1:08:17

    Exercise as mental-health medicine—and Meghan’s boxing and knee issues

    1. MMMeghan Murphy55:38

       ...that you can do. (sighs) I mean, there, there's basic practical things that you can do, obviously, to improve your health and to avoid, you know, getting real sick if you get COVID or whatever, but there's also, like, basic... This frustrates me a lot. There's basic practical things that you can do to help your own mental health.

    2. JRJoe Rogan55:55

       Yes.

    3. MMMeghan Murphy55:56

       Um, you know, so this thing where it's like we throw prescriptions at people for everything, we do that for, you know, physical health reasons, but we also do this for mental health reasons. And it's like, you know, it seems really weird to me that so many people are really, really depressed and they all need to be on drugs for depression, and I would like to offer, um, exercise, um, doing something useful with your life that makes you feel good about yourself and productive and like you've succeed... Like, try to learn and, and become better at, like, a new skill.

    4. JRJoe Rogan56:30

       Yeah.

    5. MMMeghan Murphy56:31

       Um, try-

    6. JRJoe Rogan56:32

       People don't wanna hear that though. They want that pill.

    7. MMMeghan Murphy56:35

       N- yeah. I mean-

    8. JRJoe Rogan56:36

       There's a lot of people that really don't wanna hear that. They, they want to pretend that w- first of all, with some people, there's a legitimate issue. There's a, like an absolute issue that can't be resolved with exercise and diet. Th- we have to make room for those people.

    9. MMMeghan Murphy56:51

       It's a chemical imbalance.

    10. JRJoe Rogan56:52

        Yeah.

    11. MMMeghan Murphy56:52

        All of it.

    12. JRJoe Rogan56:53

        Some of it. I think some, for some people-

    13. MMMeghan Murphy56:55

        Some of it, sure.

    14. JRJoe Rogan56:55

        ...it's real.

    15. MMMeghan Murphy56:55

        Yeah, of course, totally.

    16. JRJoe Rogan56:56

        But for-

    17. MMMeghan Murphy56:57

        But not all of it and not for everybody.

    18. JRJoe Rogan56:58

        ...a lot of people. In fact, there was a study that showed that physical exercise was as effective, if not more effective, for treating depression statistically than SSRIs. See if you can find that. It was, uh, cardiovascular, rigorous, rigorous cardiovascular exercise as or more effective than SSRIs to treat depression.

    19. MMMeghan Murphy57:23

        I mean, and I'm gonna be honest. Like, I have not done-

    20. JRJoe Rogan57:24

        Are you gonna be honest?

    21. MMMeghan Murphy57:26

        (laughs) I'm gonna start right now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan57:28

        (exhales) .

    23. MMMeghan Murphy57:28

        Are you ready?

    24. JRJoe Rogan57:29

        Is it this stuff?

    25. MMMeghan Murphy57:30

        (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan57:30

        Is this, what do you call this?

    27. MMMeghan Murphy57:30

        I'm trying to go slow 'cause like, I mean-

    28. JRJoe Rogan57:32

        Go slow. It's, this stuff is horrific. I can't believe-

    29. MMMeghan Murphy57:35

        I could-

    30. JRJoe Rogan57:35

        ...you purchase it.
11. 1:08:17 – 1:14:58

    Pronouns: personal courtesy vs public doctrine and compelled speech

    1. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:17

       Um, okay, let me ask you a question.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:08:18

       Please do.

    3. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:19

       Um, since this is my podcast. Um, you use correct pronouns, correct? Is that right?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:08:27

       Correct pronouns.

    5. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:27

       Right. So you, if somebody identifies as a, if a man identifies as a woman, you'll call him her or she?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:08:34

       If that's what she wants or he wants, yeah.

    7. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:37

       Okay, so why is that?

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:08:38

       'Cause if that's what they want. I don't give a shit.

    9. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:40

       Okay, but don't you think that-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:08:41

        I'll change their name. If they wanna be called Debbie, "Okay, Debbie."

    11. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:44

        The name doesn't bother me that much.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:08:46

        I would go for it.

    13. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:46

        One-on-one, I would do that. Like, if I was, like, talking to a friend and they identified as she and-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:08:55

        Right.

    15. MMMeghan Murphy1:08:55

        ... they were a man, then I don't feel like I would be super inclined to be like, "He, he, he, he."

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:09:00

        Right, right, right. To make a statement-

    17. MMMeghan Murphy1:09:03

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:09:03

        ... about doing it.

    19. MMMeghan Murphy1:09:03

        But I feel like in public, it has wider repercussions, and I feel like it participates in this greater lie that if you identify as the opposite sex, that's what you are. And I feel also that it's unnecessary, 'cause I feel like it, like, so I feel like it plays into this idea that it's offensive to say what I say, for example. Like, so the fact that I called Yaniv him, or, you know, I re- I refuse to use correct pronouns unless it's, like, on a personal level. Then I don't care, I'm not trying to be rude, I just-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:09:36

        And you do for a point, you're making a point.

    21. MMMeghan Murphy1:09:38

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:09:39

        Yeah.

    23. MMMeghan Murphy1:09:39

        I'm doing it, you know, yeah, exactly. Um, I feel like it sells out people who don't use correct pronouns. I feel like it plays into and reinforces this idea that it's offensive, and it's not offensive, you know? To call a man he isn't offensive. To call a male a man isn't offensive. You're just stating a neutral fact. Um, so I sort of feel like the more people that participate in that, the more it does make it seem like a crazy offensive, like, hateful, really mean thing to say if you don't use correct pronouns. And I feel like that's a standard that's been set by companies like Twitter. Like, people, people often say to me, like, they act like I'm being stupid when I talk about this. They're like, "Who cares? You got kicked off of Twitter. No big deal." And it is a big deal for me because I'm independent. Like, I don't work for anybody, I don't have some other job. Um, I've built my own platform, I've created my own audience, this is how I make an income, so it does matter to me in that sense. But it's also that it's, like, set a precedent, right? Like, it says people will say, "Oh, Megan's, Megan's hateful. Like, Megan's a really bad person. Megan's transphobic. She even got kicked off Twitter." Um, so, and, you know, because it sort of seeped into journalism, for example, so people will report stories about pedophiles and rapists and abusers and use their preferred pronouns because that's, like, the polite thing to do. I feel like I, I'm not trying to be like, "I came here to call you out," but I do, I think people don't understand why it matters sometimes. So they don't understand why I'm doing it, 'cause they're like, "Why don't you just be nice? Like, why don't you just use the correct pronoun?"

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:11:27

        Right.

    25. MMMeghan Murphy1:11:27

        And it's, for me, it's, like, a much bigger thing than just a one-on-one interaction or, like, a polite thing.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:11:34

        Well, it's, it's certainly a new thing. And one of the problems with new things like this is that people, they're, they wanna reinforce it to the point where it's like doctrine.

    27. MMMeghan Murphy1:11:45

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:11:45

        You know, like where there's n- no getting around it, like, this is the rule and you have to abide by that rule or you're a piece of shit. But it is, you know, when it comes to, like, men with beards and penises and testicles that want you to call them a woman, like, aren't you just crazy?

    29. MMMeghan Murphy1:12:05

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:12:05

        Like, what, what are, what is going on here? Uh, you, you're saying you want me to call you a woman but you have a full beard-Like, I was looking at this one person, I don't need to name this person. But there's this one person that said, you know, that, "Some women have penises and if you don't like that, you can suck my dick." That was a direct quote.
12. 1:14:58 – 1:55:01

    Trans in sports and sex-based spaces: fairness, safety, and policy consequences

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:14:58

       A very small group of people that misrepresent my stance on things too, by the way. They characterized me in a very, uh, it's, it's a, it's a caricature of who I am versus the actual words that I say and why I say them. And take, you take things out of context and try to pretend that, uh, I'm an anti-trans person or homophobic or... When none of those things are true. So, like, their, even their motivation for doing it was just they don't want any gray area. My own only, uh, dispute about trans people came because of a trans woman who was competing as a, a female in MMA fights without telling these women that she's fighting that she was a man for 30 fucking years, and just recently became a trans woman-

    2. MMMeghan Murphy1:15:52

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:52

       And was beating the shit out of 'em. And I was like, "This is fucked."

    4. MMMeghan Murphy1:15:57

       And it's gross because that guy knows he's a guy. Like, it's... You know, these people... You know, like that, that weightlifter, Laurel Hubbard, you know, you, you know you're a man. Like, you know you're cheating, you know this isn't fair and you're doing it anyway.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:16:15

       Did you see-

    6. MMMeghan Murphy1:16:15

       I have no respect for that.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:16:16

       Did you see the actual competition? She dropped the weights. It was like... I almost, like, feel like she just quit because she didn't want the heat of possibly winning.

    8. MMMeghan Murphy1:16:25

       Really?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:16:26

       Yeah.

    10. MMMeghan Murphy1:16:27

        I didn't actually watch, I just read about it after the fact.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:16:28

        Yeah, it was a whack attempt.

Episode duration: 2:47:19