Joe Rogan Experience #1724 - Jewel

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right, we're up and running. Oh, you're a real professional. You're a one-year... one ear open, one ear on-

   3. JEJewel0:18

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      ... type of person.

   5. JEJewel0:19

      That's funny. I did that accidentally.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      You... Did you?

   7. JEJewel0:22

      I'm sure it's habit.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      Yeah, I bet it is.

   9. JEJewel0:24

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       A lot of people... Like, a lot of radio professionals will do that, don't they?

   11. JEJewel0:26

       Really?

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       They almost want, like, a little bit of ambient.

   13. JEJewel0:29

       Yeah, I like to hear the sound of the room still.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Yeah. The real noise.

   15. JEJewel0:31

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Who does that? Jim Norton does that. Yeah.

   17. JEJewel0:34

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       It's odd, but I get it.

   19. JEJewel0:37

       I do it in the s- vocal booth.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       Oh, that makes sense.

   21. JEJewel0:39

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Right. You want to s- hear the actual sound, not, like, the digitally enhanced and s- the coming through, uh, b- speakers. And you wanna hear your voice.

   23. JEJewel0:50

       Yeah. Everybody hears sound differently, and pitch particularly. I hear pitch as... It sounds like waves to me.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       Waves?

   25. JEJewel0:56

       So, like, if I'm tuning my guitar, I hear wa, wa, wa, wa, or I'll hear wa, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa. It's like a little vibrato sort of. So when I'm... When you push sound through air, it's pushing air and it'll make those little waves. But if you have just this on, it takes all the air out of it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Oh.

   27. JEJewel1:13

       And so I don't hear pitches well when I'm singing. And so I'll always have one earphone off so I can hear those little waves that I... 'Cause if I can match my wave to that, to the (laughs) wave I'm hearing, I know I'm in tune.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       That makes the most sense for singers, right, as opposed to any other kind of musician because you're, you're modulating air.

   29. JEJewel1:31

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       That's part of what you're doing.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   And he- …

   1. JEJewel15:00

      huge chunks of icebergs all around, like, uh, gnarly shit. Like, my granddad was really gnarly

   2. NANarrator15:05

      And he-

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      I mean, amazing. ... didn't grow up doing that.

   4. JEJewel15:06

      No. He was, like, raised in Switzerland, you know?

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      People-

   6. JEJewel15:09

      Like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      ... were just so hardcore-

   8. JEJewel15:10

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:10

      ... back then.

   10. JEJewel15:10

       And my granddad was, like... He was just hard, a n- hard guy. So, anyway, the war starts to break out. Like, Hitler starts to become an actual problem, and now nobody can get visas in this group except my grandmother, whose father had come to America during World War I and went back to Switzerland. So, anyway, she can get a visa. Nobody else can. So she decides to leave everybody, her boyfriend, her family, everybody, because she didn't wanna be in Europe while this war started gearing up. So, she got on the very last civilian ship that left right before the war. She shows up in Alaska and my granddad's like, "Where is everyone?" She's like, "Nobody could come. It's just me." And he's like, "Where's your boyfriend?" And she's like, "I broke up with him." And he's like, "Do you wanna get married?" (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       (laughs)

   12. JEJewel15:55

       (laughs) And, uh, her mother was a seamstress, really poor, but had given my grandmother all of her cash and just said, "This is so you don't ever have to rely on a man." Which is, to me, so sweet.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       Wow.

   14. JEJewel16:05

       So, my grandmother had this huge wad of cash in her pocket, probably more than anybody in that area had, and she felt it in her pocket and then she looked at my granddad. But she really believed in his vision and she was like, "Sure, why not?" And they got married, and then they walked 200 miles across the wilderness to get to Homer, and-

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       They walked?

   16. JEJewel16:24

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       How long did that take?

   18. JEJewel16:25

       There was no roads. There was no, like, horse and wagon trails. There wasn't shit.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       Oh, fuck.

   20. JEJewel16:28

       You're just talking about wild land. And then-

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       In the 1920s?

   22. JEJewel16:32

       ... once they got... No, this is, like, what's... When did the war break out? We're-

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       '40-

   24. JEJewel16:36

       ... talking-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       No, '30-

   26. JEJewel16:38

       ... no, '36? So, th- I'm terrible. Anyway, '30s, um, so it was right around then. So, they got to Homer. They knew they liked Homer, um, which is on this place called Kachemak Bay, and then they walked up and down there trying to find a place. They found a place, and then they just carved a living out of, like, legit raw wilderness. No grocery stores, no nothing, you know?

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       Wow.

   28. JEJewel16:58

       And it was just that. My dad's childhood photos look like the 1800s. It's a horse and wagon with wheel, uh, wooden wheels, and when the tides were out, they could take the wagon down to the beach and then they could go into where there was a town and they could get some basic supplies like flour, you know? But that's all they bought, was like maybe flour, salt, and sugar. And that's how my dad was raised. Like, my dad's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:18

       How-

   30. JEJewel17:18

       ... childhood was gangster.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      things you have to learn how to do. You can't call someone to fix the plumbing.

   2. JEJewel30:03

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      You can't call ... You don't even have plumbing, right?

   4. JEJewel30:05

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      (coughs) Did you guys have a well?

   6. JEJewel30:07

      No, we had streams.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      Just streams?

   8. JEJewel30:09

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      You just went and gathered water?

   10. JEJewel30:10

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:11

       You didn't think of, like, hooking a pipe up to those things and bringing it to the house? (laughs)

   12. JEJewel30:14

       It was just everywhere. No, we never did.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       (laughs)

   14. JEJewel30:16

       But when we got older, we had a hose that ran from a stream-

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       Oh.

   16. JEJewel30:19

       ... up through a hole in the sink.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:20

       Nice. Luxury.

   18. JEJewel30:20

       But then, like the worms in the spring (laughs) -

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       Oh, would get into this, the hole?

   20. JEJewel30:24

       (laughs) And so you'd, like ... They'd take my s- ... I mean, I was the only girl on an all-guy, like, ranch.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:29

       That had to be annoying.

   22. JEJewel30:29

       And so they would take my little pink pretty scarf and tie it around the hose to catch all the worms.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       (laughs)

   24. JEJewel30:34

       I was like, "There goes my cute scarf." It was sad.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Did you guys ever get giardia or anything from the water?

   26. JEJewel30:40

       No, never.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       That's, uh ... What is that? That's if ... There's gophers and stuff and things that get in-

   28. JEJewel30:45

       I think anything.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       Yeah.

   30. JEJewel30:46

       But I, I think me and my family kind of grew an immunity. I do think you can kinda grow a tolerance-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JEJewel45:00

      a triangle to me, but it was a before, a during, and an after, and I could tell that the before was clearly before I wanted to steal, the during was when I was stealing, and the after was after (laughs) . And so I started to get really curious about what's happening during each of those three phases, which takes a lot of awareness, right? I had to learn how to get pretty present to even notice those three things. So what I realized was, like, I would get scared, I would react by stealing, and I felt a reward. I felt powerful, I felt calm, I felt in control, which was great (laughs) when you feel scared and out of control in your life. And so I realized I couldn't affect the first part. Being homeless was just really triggering and really scary, but I could control, I could affect the middle, right? Where I was stealing, and to replace it with a behavior. So I started to replace it with writing 'cause I was writing a lot in my journal. And it felt awful. Like, I just literally had to force myself. Um, but again, it takes cultivation. Um, like, sometimes I wouldn't even wake up till after I stole, you know? And then sometimes I'd kind of wake up while I was stealing, but I didn't want to quit (laughs) . And then sometimes I'd notice the urge to steal, but I really wanted to steal and I would anyway.

   2. JRJoe Rogan46:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JEJewel46:08

      And then finally, like after months, I started to notice I want to steal and I'm gonna make myself write. So, you know, anybody listening, I just don't want to think this was, like, overnight aha. Like, it took months for me to get to this point. And then writing just sucked. It felt sucky. It didn't feel exciting or fun (laughs) . I was miserable. It made me realize how miserable I was. Like, it didn't feel really rewarding. And then that got me onto this really cool thing of noticing our body only has two states. Like, we only have two basic states of being, dilated and contracted, and that's it. And every single thought, feeling, or action is gonna lead you to one of those two states. And so I started to keep track. Every time I noticed I was tight con-... You know, I'd notice from my body language. Like, I was sitting like this. I rock a lot when I get anxious. I kind of don't breathe as much. So if I could notice that, I'd write it down. I'd get out my little notebook and I'd go to my contracted section (laughs) and I had three sections in there, thinking, feeling, doing. And I would just write down, "What was I just thinking, feeling, or doing?" And I wouldn't... I would just write it down and I'd go on with my day.

   4. JRJoe Rogan47:09

      And this is all... Did you learn how to do this from anyone? Did you figure this out on your own, how to write these things out and that? Like, to, to develop these categories?

   5. JEJewel47:17

      Mm-mm. No. It was just, like, my curiosity. Like, I wanted out. I didn't want to die homeless.

   6. JRJoe Rogan47:22

      Yeah.

   7. JEJewel47:23

      I just wanted out. I wanted to do better. And so that was just my motivation, and I would just get really curious and go inside myself to try and go, "What the hell is going on? Why am I doing this? Why is my behavior like this?" And so when I was relaxed, I would notice and then I'd write down thinking, feeling, doing, and then I looked at it after, like, two months and it was a really easy pattern to see. The things that dilated me were joy, observation, gratitude, curiosity. Um, the actions were, uh, helping other people, like volunteering, um, reading, sleeping, exercising, being outside. On my contracted side, it was certain thought cycles definitely got me. Like, "I don't know what I'm doing." That thing could just... That one sentence (laughs) for some reason would do my head in 'cause I didn't know what I was doing (laughs) and it was so scary. I was so scared because I was in so many bad situations. Um, but jealousy, greed, fear, um, worry, not sleeping, not connecting to humans, not exercising. So then one day... So my panic attacks were still really a big problem and I started to get to where I could feel a panic attack coming on, and I was like, "Wait a minute. Your body can't be in two states at one time." Like, it just can't. You can only be in one at a time. And so I was like, "I wonder if I could hack my way out of a contracted state by forcing myself to participate in something off of my list that dilated me." And so I looked at gratitude and I was like, "I'm gonna try that one." And so, like, my anxiety's building up, I'm doing my rocking thing where I'm about to head into (laughs) my panic attack and I'm like, "What am I gonna be grateful for?" And I'm homeless and I'm feeling pretty sorry for myself that day, and I can't think of anything. And so one of the best, like, hacks to get present is curiosity and observation, 'cause you, you can't, like, observe this and not be really present 'cause you have to be present to observe it. So I...... used that to look around me, and I saw the sunlight filtering through this palm tree, and it was... made this, like, lacy pattern on me. And it reminded me of being a kid in Alaska, laying in the meadows and watching the tree, you know, through the leaves. And I don't know why, but it suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks that, like, I was alive, and I was here, and I hadn't killed myself. And I was so grateful. (laughs) And the gratitude of that, which was so unexpected, but it just erupted and moved me to tears that, like, what an act of defiance to not have killed myself and to have been there and just trying to figure it out. And I was suddenly grateful for myself, which was weird 'cause, you know, I had a lot of self-loathing and all kinds of things at the time. And the next thing I knew, a half hour had passed, and I didn't have a panic attack, you know? And that, to me, was like, "Eureka!" Like, "I'm figuring it out." Like, "I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna turn my life around," you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan50:15

      Wow. So this, the desire to kill yourself, was this just from the sheer pain of the anxiety and the, the depression and just the hating the position that you're in in life, that you just can't take it, you just want out?

   9. JEJewel50:33

      Yeah, that permanence, you know? I, I guarantee you, like, whatever had me sitting on the bluff that day watching the tide saved my life. Because whenever the idea of, "This is too painful. Life is too long to go on this way. It's just too painful to feel this way for 60 years," that thought will get you to kill yourself. But because I saw that tide, I was like, "I just have to..." I'd call it buckling myself in. I would just have to sit there and wait it out, and breathe and wait it out. And then plans helped me, like, you know, if you want a different outcome, you have to do something different. So I was very action-oriented, 'cause having a philosophy doesn't change your life. Actions change your life. And so that's why I was very into, like, if I got an idea, I tried to figure out how to make it practicable, like an actionable step, a behavioral step, and then I could see a result. And if the result wasn't good, I would have to go back to the drawing board and do something different. But if you want tomorrow to be different, you have to do something different today. And then you have to take notes on it, and you have to see if it works. And if it doesn't work, you have to try something different. And then you just have to not give up, and you have to keep doing it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan51:42

       But what's so impressive are the... is that you developed this structure, and you figured these, these steps out on your own, like even the step of having communication with yourself to try to come up with a different result, to sit down and think about the different states that you're in and what are these acts or what are the, the different activities that lead you, the different thought processes that lead you to the good states, the bad states. Like, what is it? And that you were, you were looking at it like you were a scientist studying yourself.

   11. JEJewel52:13

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan52:14

       Yeah. That's amazing. It's pretty incredible that you were a kid and you were that insightful. But I guess that's the thing about horrible situations. Like, horrible situations will force a person to find some kind of a solution that they didn't think was available before. Some... They'll find a way, or not.

   13. JEJewel52:37

       Or not.

   14. JRJoe Rogan52:37

       Or not.

   15. JEJewel52:37

       Yeah, you'll dig deeper-

   16. JRJoe Rogan52:38

       There's a lot of or nots.

   17. JEJewel52:39

       ... or you'll-

   18. JRJoe Rogan52:39

       Yeah.

   19. JEJewel52:40

       ... fold up.

   20. JRJoe Rogan52:40

       Yeah. And-

   21. JEJewel52:41

       One of those two things are gonna happen.

   22. JRJoe Rogan52:43

       But that's... (sighs) like, I don't wanna say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Like, you don't get to make a you without that, which is so fucked. It's like, you're a really interesting person. Like, how do you get to be a really interesting person? You gotta have a fucked-up life.

   23. JEJewel52:58

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan52:59

       (laughs) It's, it's, it's unfortunately true. You know, I don't know anybody that's interesting that had it easy.

   25. JEJewel53:05

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan53:06

       I mean, I know a lot of nice people-

   27. JEJewel53:08

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan53:08

       ... that had it easy. They're lovely. They're wonderful.

   29. JEJewel53:11

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan53:11

       But they're not... You know, like, there's something about the emotional depth of your music and your lyrics that probably wouldn't be possible if you grew up in the suburbs with a happy mom and a happy dad and... I mean, I don't wanna say wouldn't be possible, 'cause everybody's got their own trials and tribulations in life, and just the, uh, just the existential angst of being a living finite organism-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:23

   You didn't know that…

   1. JEJewel1:00:00

      money to get a plane ticket to Detroit, but I had to hitchhike from Detroit up to Traverse City, which is so dumb, but that's what I did. I don't know how far it is, but Traverse City, where the school is, is pretty far in the upper peninsula in Michigan. So I show up and I, um, am walking through, like, the main street of the campus and I'm looking around and, um, people are, like, pointing at me, and I don't know why they're pointing at me. And then a teacher rushes out to get me and she goes, "You need to go to the dean's office." And I'm like, "What have they..." I mean, I haven't even figured out what dorm I'm in or anything, and so I go into the dean's office. He goes, "Where are you from?" And I was like, "Homer, Alaska." He's like, "Why do you have a knife on your belt?" (laughs) I was like, "What?" And I looked down and, like, I had a really large skinning knife on my belt, but that was really normal where I'm from. It wasn't, like, an aggressive thing (laughs) . So I almost got expelled my very first day because I showed up with a skinning knife.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

      You didn't know that you shouldn't have a skinning knife with you everywhere?

   3. JEJewel1:00:59

      (laughs) I didn't know that.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

      Did you keep it with you for self-defense or did you keep it with you to skin things?

   5. JEJewel1:01:04

      Well, it was a habit. Like, you always had a knife in Alaska. Always had a knife. I mean, it's just... I mean, if you guys-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

      Right.

   7. JEJewel1:01:10

      ... carry knives, you just get used to having a knife on you. It's handy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

      Yeah.

   9. JEJewel1:01:14

      And then, yeah, hitchhiking. I hitchhiked a lot 'cause, like, when I first moved out, I was hitchhiking into town, so it was good to have a knife on you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       Yeah.

   11. JEJewel1:01:20

       For sure. So it was both, but I didn't think it was, like, some aggressive, horrible thing or that it would get me expelled my first second on campus (laughs) .

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

       Did they understand when you said you were from Alaska?

   13. JEJewel1:01:30

       He did. Yeah. He... And I... I... Oh, and I was innoc- You know, like, I had a... I mean, I clearly wasn't trying to be a b-I was-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

       Right.

   15. JEJewel1:01:35

       ... it was... I was an easy read. Um, and so he was just like, "Give me your knife." He, like, shook his head.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       (laughs)

   17. JEJewel1:01:40

       He was like, "Oh my God."

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

       (laughs)

   19. JEJewel1:01:41

       He's like, "Where are your parents?" I'm like, "About that." (laughs) Like...

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:44

       Yeah.

   21. JEJewel1:01:45

       "I'm here on my own." And he goes, "Do you have money for books?" I was like, "What do you mean? I'm at school." Like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:51

       Right. You give me the books.

   23. JEJewel1:01:52

       ... "You give me the books." And he was like, he shook his head again, and I just remember him looking at me like, "Who is this kid?" And he's like, "Do you have food?" I was like, "I'm at a boarding school." Like, I thought they'd have food.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

       Yeah.

   25. JEJewel1:02:05

       But apparently, you had to pay for it, and I just didn't know that. And so now I was, like, in this position where I didn't have money for books, I didn't have money for food, and I was like, "Do you have a job, like, that you could give me?" And he goes, "Let me get back to you," and so he gave me a job, like, as a model for the art class, fully clothed, you know, like, in a leotard, but it's n- wasn't my ideal job, like, wearing a leotard. Like, I didn't like my belly. I didn't like what was all happening down here, so I was like... (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

       (laughs)

   27. JEJewel1:02:29

       I wasn't too thrilled with, like, standing in front of a class seeing, like-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       Right.

   29. JEJewel1:02:34

       ... my little belly, like, made into sculptures. It was such a bummer. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:40

       (laughs)

Episode duration: 3:41:47