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Joe Rogan Experience #1750 - Ari Shaffir & Tony Hinchcliffe

Ari Shaffir is the host of "The Skeptic Tank." His most recent special, "Ari Shaffir: Double Negative," is available via Netflix. Tony Hinchcliffe is a stand-up comedian, writer, and actor. He's also the co-host, along with Brian Redban, of the podcast and live YouTube show Kill Tony.

Ari ShaffirguestJoe RoganhostTony HinchcliffeguestJamie Vernonguest
Jun 27, 20243h 0mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:12

    Intro

    1. AS

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (metal music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

  2. 0:12 – 1:21

    Beeple NFTs and why absurd digital art doesn’t need a “meaning”

    1. JR

      That is a digital art of an NFT. Um, what it is, is this guy Beeple. Do you know who Beeple is?

    2. TH

      No.

    3. JR

      Beeple's the king of the NFTs. He's a, he does, uh, he's a digital artist and he was on the podcast and he does a piece of digital art every single day and he has for 12 years. You never seen his stuff?

    4. TH

      Mm-mm.

    5. JR

      Oh my God, it's incredible. But it's that kinda absurdist stuff. Like, that's, uh, Elon, a giant Elon Musk with, uh, Dogecoin.

    6. TH

      Is that the guy that does, like, the cool thing that had, like, Hillary Clinton's head on, like, a moving robot?

    7. JR

      Yes.

    8. TH

      Oh yeah.

    9. JR

      That's him.

    10. TH

      I love that stuff.

    11. JR

      Yes, that's him. All of his stuff is real absurd and-

    12. TH

      Love it.

    13. JR

      ... wild.

    14. TH

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      It's awesome stuff. And he... That's Beeple. That's all of his stuff.

    16. AS

      Oh, that's cool.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. AS

      Is that a Burning Man thing? The bottom right? Oh, that's digital art? Yeah.

    19. JR

      Yes.

    20. AS

      Oh, it's not Burning Man. Damn, interesting.

    21. JR

      Yeah, he does all these, like, very strange... But it's really funny, people, like, try to find the hidden meaning. "Well, what he's trying to say is..." He goes, "I don't know what the fuck I'm saying."

    22. AS

      Dude, I love when an artist-

    23. JR

      Because it's just art.

    24. AS

      ... has to try to sell their work and they try to make it up. It's like, "The reality is I like flowers."

    25. JR

      Well, he's, he's not interested. Look at that one, (laughs) the missile with a big cock.

    26. TH

      (laughs)

    27. AS

      Love it.

    28. JR

      He, he doesn't, none of his stuff... He's not... He's, he's the most unpretentious guy ever. He's not pretentious at all.

  3. 1:21 – 2:28

    Tobacco-in-Texas, cheers, and the great Scotch vs. American whiskey debate

    1. AS

      This is the first weed I smoked in over a week.

    2. JR

      This is c- tobacco, we're in Texas, you son of a bitch.

    3. AS

      Oh.

    4. JR

      (coughs)

    5. TH

      (laughs) Really strong tobacco.

    6. JR

      How come you're not, uh, smoking weed?

    7. AS

      I was in Santa Domingo, I was in Dominican Republic. (laughs)

    8. JR

      Oh, that's right. We good?

    9. AS

      (coughs)

    10. JR

      You want more? Good. Um.

    11. AS

      (Coughs) Rud.

    12. JR

      Cheers, gentlemen.

    13. TH

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      We got-

    15. AS

      Cheers, to long life-

    16. JR

      To life.

    17. TH

      And fortitude. Boners.

    18. JR

      To good times. Mm. Ah, that's good shit, right?

    19. AS

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      That's old stuff. Ooh.

    21. AS

      Good Scotch.

    22. JR

      It's interesting. I, I think I prefer, like, uh, American whiskey. I prefer, like, like Buffalo Trace style whiskey. But that's still good. It's interesting.

    23. AS

      Not bad, yeah.

    24. JR

      It's different, different flavor.

    25. AS

      Is this Speyside?

    26. JR

      I don't know.

    27. AS

      Highland, interesting.

    28. JR

      I just had, um-

    29. AS

      I like that peaty kind.

    30. JR

      ... Jeff go out and get some mo-... I like the peaty kind too.

  4. 2:28 – 5:48

    Josh Barnett’s ‘War Master’ whiskey and why fighters aren’t all meatheads

    1. JR

      You know who makes a damn good whiskey? Josh Barnett.

    2. AS

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      Josh Barnett has his own War Master whiskey.

    4. AS

      Really? (laughs)

    5. JR

      It's fucking good. Josh Barnett is a genius.

    6. TH

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      He's a very intelligent guy and he's a connoisseur of great things. Like, he's, he's really into things. And if he does something-

    8. AS

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... he's gonna do it the right way, like 100%. He never does it, do a bullshit thing. And he's got this War Master whiskey. I think it's like-

    10. AS

      Is it good?

    11. JR

      I forget the brand he's working with.

    12. TH

      Warbringer.

    13. JR

      Warbringer, and his is called The War Master. And I'm telling you, it's fucking good. I wish I had, uh, the bottle here. I mean, he gave it to me and I tried it out. I was like, "Whoa." I go, "Dude, this is some fucking great whiskey."

    14. AS

      I love his promos.

    15. JR

      And smoking-

    16. AS

      Like he's, like he's in there in the factory fucking lugging bags every day. (laughs)

    17. JR

      No, no, no, no, no. You don't know. He does.

    18. TH

      No way.

    19. JR

      He goes down there.

    20. AS

      Really?

    21. JR

      Yeah, he goes down there. Look, he's involved in every step of the way.

    22. AS

      Why did he stab that barrel?

    23. JR

      Because he's an animal.

    24. AS

      (laughs)

    25. TH

      He tasted it, I think.

    26. JR

      It's Josh Barnett.

    27. AS

      Yeah, what? (laughs)

    28. TH

      Oh yeah, he tasted it? (laughs)

    29. JR

      See, that's how you taste it. He's the youngest ever UFC heavyweight champion. The youngest ever. No one has beat his record. He won the UFC heavyweight title, I think he was 24 years old.

    30. TH

      Wow.

  5. 5:48 – 8:22

    Chandra Levy, DC danger, and the true-crime obsession (especially among women)

    1. AS

      Did he run for governor or mayor?

    2. JR

      No, his, his, his dad was a governor or something like that.

    3. AS

      Ah, maybe that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    4. JR

      That was a mayor or governor. It was some politician. What was he?

    5. AS

      He wasn't the one who had-

    6. JR

      Wasn't it, wasn't it-

    7. AS

      ... who had the, who had the-

    8. JR

      Governor.

    9. AS

      ... chick disappear and then got-

    10. JR

      I don't think so.... let's not even spread that rumor. (laughs) It sounded, like, a bitch.

    11. AS

      (laughs) No. Who was that, though?

    12. JR

      Which one is that?

    13. AS

      There was some chick disappeared in his, like, staff, just disappeared, and they were all sort of investigating it until some other story came up and just buried it.

    14. JR

      Oh.

    15. AS

      Any memory of this?

    16. JR

      I know what you're talking about. This is 9/11. This was, uh-

    17. AS

      9/11, let this guy go.

    18. JR

      ... Gary ... The guy's name was, uh-

    19. AS

      Gary Condit.

    20. JR

      That's right.

    21. AS

      Ah.

    22. JR

      Gary Condit. And there was a girl that he was apparently having an affair with, or supposedly having an affair with.

    23. AS

      Living his life.

    24. JR

      And she, and she got murdered.

    25. AS

      Oh.

    26. JR

      In a park.

    27. AS

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      Like, right after the affair was exposed. And then 9/11 happened. And so because 9/11 happened, everybody sort of forgot about it.

    29. TH

      Chandra Levy.

    30. JR

      'Cause it was so crazy. That's right.

  6. 8:22 – 10:06

    Power, government narratives, and the ‘we don’t need presidents’ thought experiment

    1. JR

      It's interesting, right? Because it's always been the way people have operated. They always get t- together on a patch of land and they choose a leader and then they fuck, "Fuck everybody else. This is it. This is us."

    2. TH

      (laughs)

    3. AS

      This patch.

    4. JR

      "We are the fucking shit."

    5. AS

      Patch 72.

    6. JR

      It's kind of funny, man. It's like, th- what they're really everyone would really be afraid of is if all of the people woke up and said, "Hey, y- we don't even really need a government. If we just stop invading each other and we equally distribute all of the natural resources." (laughs)

    7. AS

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      "If we just ... If we ..."

    9. TH

      (laughs)

    10. AS

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      "Instead of hoarding it, we treat it as, as one community, one community, the community this planet Earth. So, if people need food in Africa, that's our community. If people need gas in Argentina, that's our community, and we all work together."

    12. AS

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      "And there's no, there's no presidents."

    14. AS

      Why won't that happen?

    15. JR

      Well, because people always wanna take over.

    16. AS

      Dude, even if the poor people here, if you're like, "Yeah, we should ... everyone split it up evenly," like, that means with the whole world. Even the poor people here would be like, "Oh, no, let's not do that."

    17. JR

      It's so f- We're so funny the way we, like, have narratives from movies and from fiction and we try to, like, f- shoehorn them into real life. And one of them is, like, politicians aren't corrupt, and politicians are looking out for your best interests. (laughs)

    18. TH

      Yeah. Yeah.

    19. AS

      No way.

    20. JR

      It's like when ... If you see that in a movie, you're like, "Oh, that makes sense." So, in real life if I say to you, "Do you think that some politicians are corrupt?" And you're like, "Yeah, definitely." "Do you think that politics in general is kind of tainted by influence and money?" You'd be like, "Oh, yeah, yeah. Fuck yeah, for sure." And you go, "Okay, well, is that happening right now?" "No, I think right now-"

    21. TH

      (laughs)

    22. AS

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      "... it's doing a real good job."

    24. TH

      It's every other five-year period. (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. TH

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      "I think this ... I don't think this guy's ties to the pharmaceutical companies are a big problem at all." And-

    28. AS

      They've been talking about it for 200 years.

    29. JR

      Bro, jeez.

    30. AS

      The fucking government's always ripping people off. And suddenly now, you're right, they were like, "No, not these people." Like, why?

  7. 10:06 – 16:28

    Nancy Pelosi, stock trading, and why insider trading feels like the ultimate temptation

    1. JR

      Did you see Nancy Pelosi defend, uh-

    2. TH

      She's-

    3. AS

      What?

    4. JR

      ... just-

    5. AS

      She's-

    6. JR

      ... uh ...

    7. AS

      What'd she say?

    8. TH

      ... out of that.

    9. AS

      I'm making ... I don't know, guys. I'm doing great at it. You guys should try it. (laughs)

    10. TH

      (laughs) Yeah.

    11. JR

      A bunch of people were freaking out about it.

    12. TH

      (laughs)

    13. AS

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      I think it was Kristel and Sauger were, were doing ... I didn't watch it, but I did see the headline, that she apparently is somehow-

    15. TH

      Oh, it's incredible. You have to watch it.

    16. JR

      Can we play it?

    17. TH

      It's like when-

    18. AS

      She's just bypassing all the laws to make hella cash.

    19. TH

      She looks so guilty. It's like when, uh, they, they tell Robert Durst that they know that he did it, and he, like, starts burping and shit. (laughs)

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. AS

      (laughs)

    22. TH

      (laughs)

    23. AS

      Just deflects.

    24. JR

      You think about how much money she's worth. She, she makes, like, how much a year? How much does she make a year?

    25. AS

      She just funnels it to her husband, and like, "No, he made the money."

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. TH

      (laughs)

    28. AS

      "Not me, technically."

    29. JR

      Well, c-

    30. AS

      (laughs)

  8. 16:28 – 19:10

    Sports betting ethics: Pete Rose, incentives, and when betting ruins the game

    1. TH

      It's like the coach of a team-

    2. AS

      So they're not... You know? Of course they would.

    3. JR

      But what I was saying earlier, it's like the most tempting thing to do illegally.

    4. AS

      It would, it would, it would. You wouldn't do it. The rest of us would do it.

    5. TH

      Like, we found out Pete Rose was betting on and against his teams when he was playing for the team. That's-

    6. AS

      Yeah.

    7. TH

      ... sort of the same thing.

    8. JR

      Well, the against for sure is.

    9. AS

      The against is a problem.

    10. JR

      The against is the problem. If you're betting on your team, I don't give a fuck. I'm like, "Good. You should bet on your team."

    11. TH

      Right.

    12. JR

      When I hear, like, a fighter bets like a million dollars in, like, some sort of a side bet on himself-

    13. AS

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... I'm like, "Fucking yeah. Why not, man?" If he really thinks he can win that much, who gives a shit? Makes it more exciting.

    15. AS

      The only problem with Pete Rose betting on his team, somebody finally made it, was, like, uh, he would throw in closers for no reason, wasting them for the next game. So, like-

    16. JR

      Oh.

    17. AS

      ... he'd finish off a six-round lead, he was like, "Let-

    18. JR

      Oh.

    19. AS

      "... fucking Mariano finish it out anyway." People were like, "Oh, that's weird."

    20. JR

      Interesting.

    21. AS

      Like, you know?

    22. JR

      So he made decisions that weren't wise-

    23. AS

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      ... if he were to just-

    25. AS

      ... to ensure one win over the others.

    26. JR

      Right, if he were just being a manager, but-

    27. AS

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      ... I don't know. That's fucking... Is that Monday morning quarterbacking, though?

    29. AS

      Borderline. Yeah, you're right.

    30. JR

      Whew. It's like, I, I'm, I'm all down for people betting on themselves, but when you bet against yourself, that means you're gonna not play hard because you wanna win money. You're gonna do things on accident that are on purpose.

  9. 19:10 – 25:06

    Did Sonny Liston take a dive? The ‘phantom punch’ breakdown and fight-fixing suspicion

    1. JR

      You know what's interesting is, like, fighting has always been thought of as, uh, a sport where people throw fights.

    2. AS

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      It's always been an issue. You know, that was always the thing that haunted Sonny Liston in the second fight he had with Muhammad Ali, because Muhammad Ali dropped him with this, like, real short right hand, and a lot of people, they call it the phantom punch, but it definitely was a punch. Like, you see Liston's head sink in like a guy will sometimes when they get KO'd. You definitely see it. There's a thing that happens when a guy gets hit on the jaw where you see the way his head sort of sinks in, and Liston's head definitely sinks in, which means that Ali connected. But the acting after he went down was so ridiculous, like, you could tell he wasn't really trying to get up. He was, like, pretending he was trying to get up. It was acting.

    4. AS

      Ah.

    5. JR

      So it's like he definitely got hit with a punch, but in my opinion, he stayed down.

    6. AS

      Let's see it.

    7. JR

      And I think there was probably a bet, because Liston was v- you know, like, v- deep ties to the mob, wound up being a doorman at mob-owned casinos, like, and then he died on drugs. It's a really sad story. But at one point in time, Sonny Liston was, like, the scariest guy on the fucking planet until Ali beat him. And then Ali, when he was fighting him a second time, he hit him with this one punch. Watch it. Let's play it. So he's moving, and, you know, he had just lit- Liston up in the first fight. Look at this right here. Bam. See that? That's a real punch. Back that up again. People say that's a phantom punch. No fucking way. That's a real punch. You can see it. Watch. He, look at this, right hand over the top. Boom. See that?

    8. AS

      Oh, yeah.

    9. JR

      Perfect. Perfect punch on the jaw. But now here's where it gets weird. Watch it again one more time.

    10. TH

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      So if you see Ali moving, I mean, Ali was a master. Look at that timing. Who the fuck else could do that in the heavyweight division before him?

    12. TH

      He's got his opponent coming in, and he's, uh, counterpunching.

    13. JR

      Watch this for some- But that, the way-

    14. TH

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      ... he did this is fucking beautiful, man. If you, like, can appreciate how hard it is to do that, the way he did that to Sonny, no, no, play it back. Hold on. I thought that was just showing the punch that wasn't shown afterwards. Oh, I, we need to see afterwards. That's what I'm trying to get at. Because afterwards is when he's laying down- Okay. ... and he's pretending he can't get up. Maybe he couldn't get up, but for me, I'm like, "I don't know about this." Like, I'm looking at him, like, see.

    16. TH

      Oh.

    17. JR

      You see that? Like, that seemed like acting. Like, for sure he got hit, but that f- that fu- uh, there's just something about it just doesn't sit right with me. It didn't seem like a guy normally would-

    18. AS

      Wait, they didn't do the count? They did-

    19. JR

      No, the, the referee was trying to figure out what the fuck's happening, whether or not he stopped it.

    20. AS

      He said that, he said, uh, he said the corner said it was 10 seconds, but he didn't count them.

    21. JR

      Uh-huh.

    22. AS

      They just doing it from the corner back then?

    23. JR

      I don't know. It was, this is very confusing.

    24. TH

      Well, when the fighter-

    25. JR

      I'm, I forgot that that whole thing had happened after that, that Ali-

    26. AS

      He did get up.

    27. JR

      ... went after him again, and Ali went after him again.

    28. TH

      When the fighter goes down, and the ref has trouble getting the guy to the neutral corner, the timekeeper is supposed to count.

    29. JR

      Yeah, but they were, they're not supposed to go resume fighting again, so that's why it's confusing. You're not-

    30. TH

      Yeah, I think he goes-

  10. 25:06 – 32:56

    Prime Conor McGregor striking: Aldo prediction, Alvarez combos, and what changed

    1. AS

      I never thought, I never thought that Conor punching out Aldo seemed like it was that vicious a punch.

    2. JR

      Oh my God. That was perfect.

    3. AS

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      That's, that's-

    5. AS

      But it didn't seem bru- like brutal strength.

    6. NA

      Well-

    7. TH

      When someone's coming in you can't-

    8. NA

      Yeah.

    9. TH

      ... you can't... Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't get any better than that.

    10. AS

      Yeah.

    11. TH

      Which is what's interesting about that. Muhammad Ali takes two big steps back-

    12. AS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. TH

      ... and he's bringing him in, and then he counterpunches. So he's bringing him in sort of double.

    14. AS

      As he gets hit on the chest too.

    15. JR

      Not only that, he's bringing him in like this. He's got his hand like this, and he goes around his hand, and he punches him in the chin. He's moving around, and as Liston comes at him, he- he brings his hand up and around Liston's hand before Liston can even withdraw his hand and cover, and cracks him on the chin. It was a beautiful punch.

    16. TH

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      The-

    18. TH

      And then Conor-Aldo, same thing, like it's like right to left, just straight across while he's coming forward-

    19. AS

      Yeah.

    20. TH

      ... and makes his head spin.

    21. JR

      The fact that Aldo was so hell-bent on destroying Conor. He just was-

    22. AS

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      ... hell-bent and, and Conor took advantage of that with the timing.

    24. AS

      It was hard immediately. Remember that? It was like, "Here we go, big fight." And then it was like, "One."

    25. JR

      It's over immediately?

    26. TH

      Smart.

    27. NA

      Yeah.

    28. TH

      It's like when Jane slaps somebody and then...

    29. JR

      It was genius. But this was a powerful punch when you first... Look- look at that. Boom, bang, bang. But first of all, you gotta realize, it's perfectly placed.

    30. AS

      Yeah, the placement.

  11. 32:56 – 41:50

    Tiger Woods comeback talk and why golf feels impossibly hard (and satisfying)

    1. TH

      Mm-hmm. Tiger Woods is back h- hitting golf balls again. He just posted on Instagram his-

    2. JR

      Heard.

    3. TH

      ... smashing a ball.

    4. AS

      Yeah?

    5. TH

      And, uh, he talked about how h- his leg almost got amputated.

    6. AS

      Amputated. From what happened to him?

    7. TH

      Can you imagine?

    8. AS

      What happened to him?

    9. TH

      A car accident.

    10. JR

      Car acc-

    11. TH

      A massive car accident. And, uh-

    12. JR

      Yeah, was he, didn't he, like, go off a cliff or some shit?

    13. TH

      Uh, yes, but-

    14. JR

      What?

    15. TH

      ... not really like a cliff-cliff, but like a, yeah, like a, like a, uh...

    16. JR

      What?

    17. TH

      Yeah. Like a, uh, what's that called?

    18. JR

      Or like a ravine.

    19. TH

      Ditch. Yeah.

    20. JR

      A ditch. Like a serious accident.

    21. AS

      When was this? How long ago was this?

    22. TH

      February? Yeah.

    23. AS

      Oh.

    24. JR

      Serious accident.

    25. AS

      Whoa.

    26. JR

      Yeah. Like, there's his car at the bottom of this ditch.

    27. TH

      Yeah.

    28. AS

      Damn.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. AS

      And he almost lost his legs?

  12. 41:50 – 48:08

    Instagram bans, comedy ‘hate speech,’ and algorithmic moderation absurdity

    1. JR

      Oh, did Instagram ban you?

    2. AS

      Instagram did ban me.

    3. JR

      For... What the fuck, man?

    4. AS

      (laughs) Hate speech. Too much hate speech, they said. They referenced the Hitler-

    5. JR

      And they're changing it. They're changing what hate speech is. Tell everybody what happened.

    6. AS

      W- uh, one of them was, um, um, my tour posters I let my fans do, rename my tour-

    7. JR

      Yes.

    8. AS

      ... it makes me laugh.

    9. TH

      Genius, by the way.

    10. JR

      Yeah, it's really-

    11. AS

      Rules are rules, bet's a bet.

    12. JR

      It's a great idea.

    13. AS

      Thanks.

    14. JR

      You post them and they're funny.

    15. TH

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      And you allow people to get their name out there, like people who do graphic art.

    17. AS

      Mm-hmm. One, one of them was, uh, The Wrong Side of History Tour. Great, okay-

    18. JR

      Yeah, I saw that.

    19. AS

      ... I can name... That's a good, solid tour name. Uh, the next one was, uh, The Hitler Gave Me Gonorrhea Tour.

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. TH

      (laughs)

    22. AS

      And it's just a picture of Hitler with his hand over me.

    23. JR

      Was that a problem? They had a problem with that one?

    24. AS

      Hate speech.

    25. JR

      ... wait a minute, they're both hate speech?

    26. AS

      That was hate speech.

    27. JR

      The first one was too?

    28. AS

      The first one was not hate speech.

    29. JR

      Okay.

    30. AS

      The first one was okay.

  13. 48:08 – 1:08:31

    Social media as anxiety machine: kids, body image, bullying, and ‘meaningful control’ promises

    1. JR

      There should be a w- I, I don't know why they don't, right? Is it a financial decision? Is it a social engineering decision?

    2. AS

      They want everyone to be the same. They want one fucking... everyone the same so they can market the same to everyone with the least amount of effort. Let us... we're all different.

    3. JR

      Right, but here-

    4. AS

      Let us have our different experiences.

    5. JR

      But here's another thing that we have to m- uh, make a, a concession about or at least talk about is like, who's responsible for... when, when you hear about, uh, kids getting fucked up from social media, like particularly girls-

    6. AS

      They should be on there.

    7. JR

      ... how it fucks up their sel- but they're gonna be. Everybody's on there.

    8. AS

      Oh.

    9. JR

      ... they're all gonna be on it. Like, who's responsible, and what do they do to stop things that could possibly bite them in the ass? Like, are they making decisions that are financial decisions? Like, are they looking at p- people putting up fucked up things like that and going, "Hey, we could get sued or we can get taken down, or people could write articles about how we-"

    10. AS

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... "we, we won't-"

    12. AS

      Uh-huh.

    13. JR

      "... and then our stock could drop," and are they... I mean, is that what they're doing?

    14. AS

      Some of it, because it's not one person. It's like a-

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. AS

      ... conglomerate of people who just want dividends.

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. AS

      That's why there's always forest fires here, 'cause they're like, PG&E is like, "Eh, we gotta give shareholders dividends." So, same thing here. They won't do it. And, but the reality is, is that they know they're making loo- leading to people suicide, like, shut the whole thing down until you figure out how to do it without that.

    19. JR

      I have a- a friend who works for a big media company, and we were having this conversation, and she was saying that a lot of the people that work there also consider themselves activists. They don't-

    20. AS

      'Cause they're s- doing social change.

    21. JR

      That's what they think. They're-

    22. AS

      They're concentrating on their own good.

    23. JR

      ... they're, they're not... Yeah. They're not just thinking about, um, their job. They're thinking about the fact that they could, like, enact change in the world.

    24. AS

      Oh, they're making people-

    25. JR

      And I go, "Wow."

    26. AS

      ... upset about things all over the country and the world for, for to do nothing.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. AS

      You're just filling us all with anxiety and fear.

    29. JR

      You're right.

    30. AS

      For nothing.

Episode duration: 3:00:44

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