Joe Rogan Experience #1766 - Ben Patrick

1. 0:00 – 2:25

   Knee surgery history and the depth of Ben Patrick’s injuries

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Welcome. What's happening, man?

   2. BPBen Patrick0:14

      Hey, man.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      We should thank Jamie, because inadvertently, Jamie's the reason why this podcast got started.

   4. BPBen Patrick0:19

      You're welcome.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs)

   6. BPBen Patrick0:19

      Thank you, guys. Thank you, Jamie.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Jamie t- What... Jamie told me about you, like-

   8. BPBen Patrick0:23

      It's probably three years ago-ish?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      A couple.

   10. BPBen Patrick0:27

       Yeah, at least.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Yeah, for sure, at least a couple. And I've always had, like, weird issues with my knees, for years. You know, I've had-

   12. BPBen Patrick0:33

       Yep.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       ... both knees reconstructed. As... You've had a bunch of knee surgeries as well, right?

   14. BPBen Patrick0:37

       Yep.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       How many knee surgeries have you had?

   16. BPBen Patrick0:39

       Well, I had, with my left knee, partially artificial kneecap. It was a strange-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Artificial kneecap?

   18. BPBen Patrick0:45

       Really strange thing. Yeah. Um-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       What's an artificial kneecap? What's it made out of?

   20. BPBen Patrick0:51

       Some kind of, like, rubber plastic kind of shit. I was super depressed. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       Wow.

   22. BPBen Patrick0:56

       I was, I was...

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       So, like, when you feel it-

   24. BPBen Patrick0:58

       I had missed my senior year of basketball, so I was getting... They said, basically, that my kneecap had fractured off, like the upper left side was just fractured, so they had to take it out and put something else in there.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       I've never even heard of that before.

   26. BPBen Patrick1:09

       You can... Yeah, you can still see kind of where it juts out.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       Ooh.

   28. BPBen Patrick1:13

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       And can you sit on your... Well, obviously he can't. I've seen you. Be on your knees, no, no issues at all with that?

   30. BPBen Patrick1:17

       Yeah, yeah, no issues.
2. 2:25 – 3:38

   From “knees falling apart” to building a system: ATG, books, and early mission

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      So, everyone that I've turned on to your stuff, um, has loved it and has said, "Well, God... How come I didn't know about this before?" Like, when... So, we should explain your... Knees_over_toes_guy is your Instagram, uh, handle. And, uh, Athletic Truth Group, right? This is what you guys... Is this... Did you f-... Who founded the Athletic Truth Group?

   2. BPBen Patrick2:49

      Yeah. So, before I was on social media, I made a business name, Athletic Truth Group, LLC. And that was my gyms.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:56

      And these are your books?

   4. BPBen Patrick2:56

      Yeah, I have a couple starting books on Amazon. Um, Knee Ability Zero, so that's the idea of getting stronger knees. Bodyweight, You Don't Need Anything.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:05

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BPBen Patrick3:06

      That came about during COVID. You know, I had to figure out for people, there's no gym.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      Right.

   8. BPBen Patrick3:11

      And then the other book goes over, like, my classic stuff, so that's called ATG for Life. So, that was my business. I ran a gym for seven years prior to COVID.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      So, you knew you had all these injuries. You were really depressed. You felt like your knees were falling apart and that was gonna hinder your ability to do what you love. You loved to play basketball.

   10. BPBen Patrick3:27

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       And so how did you devise and what... Where did... What research did you do to figure out all these, uh, strength and conditioning methods to strengthen your knees?

3. 3:38 – 5:16

   The core idea: reversing the “knees over toes is dangerous” dogma

   1. BPBen Patrick3:38

      First clue was from a guy named Charles Poliquin.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:41

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BPBen Patrick3:42

      So, at the time, I was painting walls for my dad, just... I was out of high school. I was a, you know, a bum. When you're an athlete, you don't get a scholarship.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:51

      Right.

   5. BPBen Patrick3:51

      You know? People think you failed at life, you know.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      Right.

   7. BPBen Patrick3:55

      But I was painting walls, researching relentlessly, and I saw a cr-... a clue from him about the farther and stronger your knee can go over your toes, the less chance of knee injury you have.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:06

      Which is always contrary to what they always tell you in gyms. At least they used to tell you, "Don't ever have your knees over your toes as you do squats. It's very dangerous."

   9. BPBen Patrick4:14

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:15

       Yeah.

   11. BPBen Patrick4:15

       So, I, I believed that all the way up to that time. So, I quickly started looking into this. Charles, rest in peace, he was an older guy, so I couldn't find any video of him doing it. But he had this... a disciple named Keegan Smith, an Australian strength coach. Um, and there I could see video examples of him doing it, and they're intentionally training knees over toes. So, I just... It was almost kind of like a shotgun thing. I just started trying everything. You know what I mean?

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. BPBen Patrick4:43

       And I quickly found that what got me the least pain was actually the lowest level of "knees over toes" training, which is basically dragging a sled backwards. And I would do anything I could find for this. I'd put my car in neutral and have a buddy in my car, and I'd put a butt... my butt against the bumper and just backwards. So, I'd be... (laughs) I'd move my car in neutral, but backwards.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       Mm-hmm.

   15. BPBen Patrick5:06

       Dragging a sled backwards. And I used that to carry me through and, and went from there and was able to return to my sport and do a lot of cool stuff.

4. 5:16 – 9:01

   Backward sled as the breakthrough: why it worked and where it came from

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:16

      So, who figured out the dragging a sled backwards thing?

   2. BPBen Patrick5:20

      It's so cool. First off (laughs) , credit has to go... This is Chinese wisdom passed down generation to generation to prevent cartilage breakdown, to prevent arthritis in elderly, so they actually have their elderly start walking backwards. So-

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:36

      Oh.

   4. BPBen Patrick5:36

      So, you have i-... In China, you have walking backwards. Meanwhile, in Finland, in the forestry industry, they would drag trees backwards. So, like, they would be dragging trees. And then, have you heard of American powerlifting coach, Louie Simmons?

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      Yes.

   6. BPBen Patrick5:52

      He's a legend. Louie was trying to figure out the secret of these Finnish guys who are getting such strong knees and backs and stuff, and they credited the, the forestry as their, like, foundation-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:04

      Really?

   8. BPBen Patrick6:04

      ... of dragging trees. So, he popularized-... and so, he could probably, you know, tell someone much more in detail. But the, the idea of a sled, of dragging something as a form of human exercise.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:18

      Hmm.

   10. BPBen Patrick6:19

       That's the history as I know it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       Louis Simmons, uh, also created the Reverse Hyper-

   12. BPBen Patrick6:25

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:25

       ... which, uh, I've used, uh, to strengthen my back, and I know a lot of people that had disc issues. He developed it to, uh, deal with... It's really kind of a crazy story, because they were telling him that he needed to get his discs fused, because he had, um, uh, you know, d- disc issues where his discs were pushing on his nerves, where he was, uh, you know, having, uh, bulging issues, bulging discs. And so, he was like, "Well, if something compressed them, then something can decompress them. So, how do I decompress them?" And so, he developed... You, you're aware of the Reverse Hyper, I'm sure.

   14. BPBen Patrick6:59

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       It's an amazing machine.

   16. BPBen Patrick7:01

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       And it's the first machine that I've ever seen that actively decompresses the muscles while strengthening the muscles. So, on the deceleration, or the decline, it actively decompresses your spine. And then when you ascend, when you lift your legs up, it strengthens all those lower back muscles. It's a genius-

   18. BPBen Patrick7:18

       Yep.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       ... piece of equipment.

   20. BPBen Patrick7:20

       Yep. So, he was already on the side of, um, he didn't want to go through with the surgery-

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       Right.

   22. BPBen Patrick7:24

       ... for his back.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       Yeah.

   24. BPBen Patrick7:25

       And he figured out how to rebuild his back, and went on to, you know, hit insane powerlifting numbers and stuff. And it was the same for me with... For me, my corollary was jumping super high-

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:35

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BPBen Patrick7:35

       ... you know? So, that was something I actually could never do before all my knee problems, but because of figuring this out, all this stuff, basically figured out how to put rockets in my knees. Now I can jump super high.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:46

       That's so crazy, 'cause I've watched your videos and how high you jump. I mean, you almost can put your chin on the rim.

   28. BPBen Patrick7:52

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:52

       It's wild.

   30. BPBen Patrick7:54

       What's... You know, a lot of people can jump high, but I think what's cool is, um... This, I was demoing some stuff.
5. 9:01 – 21:59

   Sled training principles: safety, frequency, and gym setup details

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      ... he's a big fan of yours. Um, as of many of my friends are. The, uh, backward sled thing is something that I've recently implemented. You know, I have a, a yard. It's got, it's got a nice, long piece of grass. And so, I stack that sucker up with, like, 100 pounds, I put it on the sled and I just (grunting) . And it's, it's amazing how much it's helped. It just... My knees feel different. They feel like... It's hard to say. It's like they feel more stable, you know? It feels like there's m- they're more rigid. Like, there's more there. I mean, they still work great, like with stuff. Like, I'm 54.

   2. BPBen Patrick9:36

      You're... And I saw him at... So, for the record, he was playing with my one-year-old out there, and your knees are bending great.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      Oh, yeah, yeah. They're, they're very flexible, yeah.

   4. BPBen Patrick9:46

      So, anyways, I just wanted to put that out there, like for anyone who hasn't seen you in, in action, I was very impressed.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:52

      Oh, just playing with them?

   6. BPBen Patrick9:53

      Well, just to see how your knees bend. D- you can deep squat, you can rest on your knees, all that stuff.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:57

      Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't have any issues like that, no. My, my issue is torque.

   8. BPBen Patrick10:02

      Yep.

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:02

      It's from kicks.

   10. BPBen Patrick10:03

       Yep.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       That's my issues. Like, it's mostly meniscus. The amount of torque that you put on your knees when you throw a kick, and then I'm hitting a 130-pound heavy bag, and I'm doing it for like, you know, an hour a day. That's a lot of force. And I love to do it. And so, for me, it's like, okay, I'm not gonna stop doing this. Like, I'm gonna stop doing it when I have to stop doing it.

   12. BPBen Patrick10:29

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:29

       And, and until I have to stop doing it, I'm gonna figure out what I can do to strengthen my knees and make them better.

   14. BPBen Patrick10:35

       Yep.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:35

       Your exercises have 100% made my knee stronger. 100%.

   16. BPBen Patrick10:40

       I appreciate that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:41

       It's re- it's really amazing.

   18. BPBen Patrick10:43

       So, with those kicks, and a lot of people out there can relate, you do that 'cause it's something you wanna do. It's not like that's the healthiest thing for your knee to go with this... I mean, the amount of torque is probably, like, in the thousands of pounds every time you throw out a kick, if you add all up all, you know, all that force. And it's the same with jumping. Playing basketball is not good for your knees-

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:02

       Right.

   20. BPBen Patrick11:02

       ... but, but I wanna do it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:03

       Right.

   22. BPBen Patrick11:04

       So, that's where the sled comes in, because every step that you're going backward, you're strengthening your knee. But there's a fundamental difference between the sled and any other exercise that I do. The difference is that only you move the sled, so the sled never moves you. When you do squats or anything like that, you're taking some degree of risk. You're... The weight is gonna move you down-

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:29

       Mm-hmm.

   24. BPBen Patrick11:30

       ... and then you're gonna move it back. So, I w- last time I was in LA, I'm on the roof of my apartment and I have one of those internal resistance sleds up there. And my neighbor's 82, and he wants to join me for a workout. He doesn't know who I am. He's just... I can instantly put him on a sled. And this is an internal resistance one that you can push and you can go backwards. I can-

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:51

       I've seen that one.

   26. BPBen Patrick11:52

       Yeah. If you pull up my Instagram, I put, so that anyone listening can get the world's fastest education, meaning I'm just... I made for the podcast, I spent the last week preparing six posts in order. So, let's go to that one on the top left. The current human exercise fundamental-... is walking forward with a machine doing the work for you, a treadmill.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:13

       Yeah.

   28. BPBen Patrick12:14

       Okay? It should be the human doing the work. Even pushing a sled would be so much better. You can put an older person on pushing a sled. Only they move the sled, so you don't have the, the, you know, with a squat or something like that, there's a lot more chance of, uh, of injury.

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       Right.

   30. BPBen Patrick12:32

       But we, we want those effects of a squat. But for example, I go six days a week I sled, and one day a week I squat. You see the difference there?
6. 21:59 – 27:54

   How Ben built the method despite institutions: scholarships, textbook lag, and a hard pivot

   1. BPBen Patrick21:59

      It's very simple. It's very simple how this occurs. So I wasn't taught it either and didn't get a scholarship to college (laughs) , painting walls during the day. I have nothing. I had no backup plan. So I was like, "All right, I'm not gonna make it as a basketball player. I'm just gonna figure out how to bulletproof my knees." So then I start really digging into the corners of the Earth to find data. You see what I mean?

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:22

      Right.

   3. BPBen Patrick22:23

      The... Everything we're talking about right now in this podcast without question will be in the textbooks in 20, 30 years.

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      Wow.

   5. BPBen Patrick22:31

      But it takes a long time for textbooks to change. You see what I mean?

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:35

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BPBen Patrick22:36

      So you're not gonna find the stuff we're talking about in the main textbooks that people are going to schooling and learning. So I find some pockets of information, work really hard on it, rejuvenate my knees, manage to market myself and get a college basketball scholarship. Played two years at a junior college. You know, like in America, we have these two-year JUCO, lot of, lot of wild stories. Had an amazing coach there and kept healing my knees while playing. So, like, I was improving as I was going through my first years of college. Got a full ride D1 scholarship at age 23.

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:12

      Wow.

   9. BPBen Patrick23:13

      So I went from Mr. 18-Year-Old on my butt... Oh, you know, like, people from my hometown, by the time I was 23 getting a D1 scholarship, it was like, "What the heck is going on?" So I actually had started training kids in the summer just because it was like this unbelievable thing that had happened. But here's what I'm getting to. I go to this Division I school, and the strength coach, who has his degrees from college and everything, he's not gonna let me do my drills, the very things that got me the scholarship. Isn't that a wild concept?

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:47

       What did he say?

   11. BPBen Patrick23:48

       "You're not allowed to do your Knees Over Toes stuff here." So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:52

       Wow.

   13. BPBen Patrick23:52

       ... the school gave me a scholarship, full ride. I'm gonna be, you know, living out my dream, having a chance to play in March Madness, whatever. Now, I mentioned I was 23.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:02

       Right.

   15. BPBen Patrick24:03

       So I get (laughs) a call from the head coach before the season, and he tells me, "NCAA has denied your eligibility. They say you're like... your clock is up." None of us knew. It's a very rare thing. I've never heard of this happening of someone, like, fixing their knees and then later going to college. So we did a whole appeal process. But in the back of my mind, I was like-... I don't want to now have to go two years trying to train behind the strength coach's back. And look at the system. So it's like, it's not his fault. He's just doing what he learned in the textbook.

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:36

       Right.

   17. BPBen Patrick24:36

       How the heck is the textbook gonna change? You see what I mean?

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:39

       Did you have a conversation with him privately?

   19. BPBen Patrick24:42

       Um, anyone can relate, if you've been in team sports and you bring something up to, like, the head strength coach or the head coach or something like that, there's a lot of pressure.

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:52

       Yeah.

   21. BPBen Patrick24:52

       Like, it's like you're risking getting in murky water, having a bad reputation on the team. So I never got past that, that opening conversation with him of like, you know, "I've been doing these things."

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:06

       So did he see you doing it? Like how did this happen?

   23. BPBen Patrick25:08

       Yeah, yeah. I told him which exercise, like, "These are the things I've been doing that are like, that have me able to play." 'Cause I couldn't play before. So these are-

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       So, so explain, explain how the conversation takes place.

   25. BPBen Patrick25:19

       So I meet him. He's gonna be running my program.

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       Right.

   27. BPBen Patrick25:23

       And I say, "Okay, I need to add in these things." Like you've seen these knees-over-toes split squats, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:30

       Mm-hmm.

   29. BPBen Patrick25:30

       Very uncommon exercise. "No, no, no, you're not gonna be doing that here." So it's just a total stop. So I'm not gonna be doing, no-

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:37

       So he tells you you can't do them.
7. 27:54 – 35:19

   Scaling results via social media: obsessive execution and living for the mission

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:54

      Now how, when did you start getting traction? Like when did people start paying attention and recognize like, "Hey, this guy is really onto something?"

   2. BPBen Patrick28:02

      Making results in person. So I had a gym for seven years, and I became known as the knee guy.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:08

      Where was your gym at?

   4. BPBen Patrick28:09

      Clearwater, Florida. It's like a beach town by Tampa.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:11

      Sure. My sister lived there.

   6. BPBen Patrick28:12

      Tampa is still main city. Oh, cool. So getting results in person, became known as like the knee guy, and quite honestly friends telling me like, "You need to like go on social media and stuff like that."

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:24

      Hmm.

   8. BPBen Patrick28:25

      So I hated social media at the time.

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:26

      Why'd you hate social media?

   10. BPBen Patrick28:27

       This was only a few years ago. (laughs) I don't know. What reasons could you come up with? (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:32

       All of them. (laughs)

   12. BPBen Patrick28:33

       Exactly. So...

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:34

       Yeah.

   14. BPBen Patrick28:35

       So, but I did realize, okay, I'm gonna need to approach social media the same way I approach knees and try to become as competent as I can possibly be and be patient with it and be responsible and... You know what I mean?

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:50

       Hmm.

   16. BPBen Patrick28:50

       And so-

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:50

       Yeah.

   18. BPBen Patrick28:51

       I really liked Gary V because he had a positive vibe, you know what I mean?

   19. JRJoe Rogan28:54

       Maybe too positive.

   20. BPBen Patrick28:55

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:56

       I'm just kidding. (laughs)

   22. BPBen Patrick28:58

       I really like Gary V because it seemed like you could be yourself and do, and actually win on social media.

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:04

       Yeah.

   24. BPBen Patrick29:04

       And you're the same way. You're just you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:07

       Yeah.

   26. BPBen Patrick29:07

       And you're winning more than anyone. That's, you know, another conversation. Thanks for everything you're doing. You're the voice for us right now, so...

   27. JRJoe Rogan29:15

       I don't wanna be. (laughs)

   28. BPBen Patrick29:16

       I, I understand. I understand. I can't even imagine. But there are examples you can just be you. You can just try-

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:23

       Yes.

   30. BPBen Patrick29:23

       ... to help people. You don't have to be perfect. I can make as many mistakes as we regress-
8. 35:19 – 48:11

   Mindset detour: attention, finding purpose, and learning through loss

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:19

      Well, I figured that out when I was young because I was absolutely convinced that I was gonna be a loser because I couldn't-

   2. BPBen Patrick35:26

      Really?

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:26

      ... concentrate in school. I could, I didn't care.

   4. BPBen Patrick35:29

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:29

      I could, I could not pay attention. I was just... And I guarantee that if I had different parents and maybe if it was a different time in history, I would have gotten on some sort of ADHD medication.

   6. BPBen Patrick35:40

      Hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:40

      They would have said, "This kid's fucked." Like, "In order for him to be a productive member of society and graduate college and all that, you're g- we're gonna need to put him on some medication so he can pay attention in school." I guarantee 'cause I couldn't pay-

   8. BPBen Patrick35:51

      Wow.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:52

      I did not give a fuck what they were talking about. And so I thought that I was going to be a loser. I was like, "I'm just... I can't work. I can't, I just can't focus." Then I discovered martial arts.

   10. BPBen Patrick36:03

       Hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan36:04

       And I could do nothing else. Like, what was... That was all I could think about, was that. And I was super focused. And then I realized, like, "Oh, I just need to find something I like." And it just, it was like a bell went off. And then there's a, there's an expression that I learned when I was, uh, doing TaeKwonDo when I was young, is that...Martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. And that is a, is an amazing statement and it proved to be so fucking accurate, because what martial arts showed me was that if there was something that I really loved and enjoyed, and something that gave me great satisfaction, I dedicated my time to it, I could reap tremendous results from it. And it set the tone for my entire life, like all of my work ethic, all the things that I've done since then, I mean, all of it, I owe to martial arts. And I owe all of it to this realization that it wasn't that I didn't have the ability to focus, it's just that I am fiercely opposed to focusing on something I don't give a shit about. And, but when it's something I do give a shit about, I am fucking all in and I become obsessed.

   12. BPBen Patrick37:16

       Wow.

   13. JRJoe Rogan37:16

       I was like, so what I thought was just a terrible personality flaw that I have and, uh, a discipline, a, a complete lack of discipline that I had, was actually not the case. I just, I'm completely opposed to being forced to do something that's uninteresting. And that is the majority of this country. The majority of this country is stuck in this situation where they have to do something they're not really interested in. And so, what do they do? They find enjoyment out of the social aspect of work, working with people that they like, so that's good. So they're doing something they don't like, but at least they like the guys at work and they like the people that they interact with, so that's where they, they get their enjoyment from. And then when they get home, then they find some other stuff to do.

   14. BPBen Patrick38:04

       Yeah. That's, that's powerful, but it totally makes sense.

   15. JRJoe Rogan38:08

       Yeah.

   16. BPBen Patrick38:08

       It seemed like it was a character flaw, but actually it was a great ability you had and by not being focused on stuff you weren't interested in, that means it was opening you up to focus on some really powerful stuff. You see what I mean?

   17. JRJoe Rogan38:20

       Yeah.

   18. BPBen Patrick38:20

       Like if you had, if Joe Rogan had just gone with the flow, you know what I mean?

   19. JRJoe Rogan38:25

       Yeah. If I'd given in, I would be fucking doomed.

   20. BPBen Patrick38:27

       You see what I'm saying?

   21. JRJoe Rogan38:28

       I would not be me, for sure. I wouldn't be as successful.

   22. BPBen Patrick38:31

       Exactly.

   23. JRJoe Rogan38:31

       And there, there's also a thing about energy. Like kids have so much energy, they don't wanna sit down and do something boring hour after hour. So if you have a boring class and that class is over and you have another boring class and that class is over... And also, I went to public school and a lot of the teachers, it's nothing, not a knock against public school, some of the teachers were great.

   24. BPBen Patrick38:51

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan38:51

       But a lot of the teachers were like really uninterested.

   26. BPBen Patrick38:54

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan38:55

       They were just showing up and doing their job. And all they wanted was you to listen and pay attention. And I couldn't fucking care less.

   28. BPBen Patrick39:02

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan39:02

       I really couldn't. And I was completely sure that I was gonna be a loser. I was so insecure about it, I was like s- I was thinking about my future and I was like, "Man, like what am I gonna be? Like I can't... Uh, there's not a thing that interests me. Like this sucks." And it... I was convinced that this was because there was something wrong with me, until I found something I loved. And then I got so good at it so quickly and I was so dedicated, I was like, "Oh, okay." And then when I quit that and started doing comedy and then I started applying the, sort of the same mentality from martial arts to comedy, I was like, "Oh, you can get good at anything. You just have to dedicate yourself to it."

   30. BPBen Patrick39:41

       Bingo.
9. 48:11 – 1:04:32

   Who benefits most: damaged cartilage, the 100-mile idea, and why “pressure” matters

   1. JRJoe Rogan48:11

      Now what about people that have a lot of cartilage damage and meniscus damage?

   2. BPBen Patrick48:15

      More damage, the more you need the sled, because it gets the circulation. The toughest thing is when you start losing that ability to communicate to an area. So if you just have great knee bend and bla- ... It's very easy to get in there, work out your legs. What happens when you can't even figure out how to work out your legs because your knees hurt so much? You see what I mean?

   3. JRJoe Rogan48:34

      Yeah.

   4. BPBen Patrick48:34

      ... that's where the sled is the trick. We haven't really seen, it, there's no such thing as, like, uh, too much damage when it comes to just, okay, if you can walk, you can walk backwards. If you can walk backwards, you could drag a pound backward, two pound, keep going, more circulation while getting strength at the same time. You can will yourself out of extremely devastating knee issues. But I would say that you'd have to put in 100 miles, resisted, backwards, to know for sure, you know, "Oh, am I actually doomed or not?" And the more you do it, you start getting more communication in the area. You start getting stronger. It starts getting better. So, that's, that's been my formula for a long time now, and I think it would take the average person about five years of consistent work. But that would seem like, oh my God, five years. You know? But we don't think anything of spending decades to become good at a bench press or martial arts. You know what I mean? Or the piano.

   5. JRJoe Rogan49:32

      Well, that's the other thing is if you don't do those five years, your knees are just gonna still suck, and those five years-

   6. BPBen Patrick49:37

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan49:37

      ... are gonna happen whether you like it or not.

   8. BPBen Patrick49:39

      Still getting cardio. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan49:40

      Yeah, it's not like you hit pause on the world-

   10. BPBen Patrick49:42

       Exactly.

   11. JRJoe Rogan49:42

       ... and like go, "Let's just pause life and time, and, and I'll do something else for five years."

   12. BPBen Patrick49:48

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan49:48

       No, the five years are gonna happen.

   14. BPBen Patrick49:49

       I'm talking five minutes or let- you know what I mean?

   15. JRJoe Rogan49:51

       Yeah.

   16. BPBen Patrick49:51

       I'm talking about 100... Like, my average is about 100 meters a day backward.

   17. JRJoe Rogan49:56

       That's it?

   18. BPBen Patrick49:57

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan49:58

       Oh, okay.

   20. BPBen Patrick49:59

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan49:59

       I, I was doing long sessions.

   22. BPBen Patrick50:01

       You can.

   23. JRJoe Rogan50:02

       Is that good? Is that bad? Like, I'm not sore.

   24. BPBen Patrick50:05

       I think, I think, over the years, I've seen that the more frequent-

   25. JRJoe Rogan50:10

       Is more important?

   26. BPBen Patrick50:10

       ... because it allows you to get that circulation.

   27. JRJoe Rogan50:12

       Mm-hmm.

   28. BPBen Patrick50:12

       Having a really good set-up and getting it in more frequently, um, I've seen has worked really well.

   29. JRJoe Rogan50:19

       What is it about going backwards?

   30. BPBen Patrick50:21

       Yep. So, anyone listening to this could stand in front of a mirror right now, and if you went to take your first step backward and, and paused right where you're at, first off, your knee is over your toes. Now, what originally scared people out of knees over toes is that when your knee is over your toes, there's more pressure on your knee. That's the position that the pressure goes into the knee, when your knee is over your toes. But now it's been found out that bodies with more pressure on them age biologically younger, not the other way around. So, it's actually when we start avoiding these areas of pressure that a joint will degrade and get really fragile. So, this is a way to get that pressure in a safe way with your knees over your toes. So, every step backward, you're strengthening your knees over your toes to some degree. The better you get at it, the more you do it, the more you add up that pressure that actually makes the area stronger and gets it to heal and gets it to be younger. So, there was a gross misunderstanding of knee over toes equals more pressure on your knee, therefore avoid the area completely.
10. 1:04:32 – 1:09:23

    Recovery and nutrition: RICE debate, supplements refusal, and meat/fruit eating

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:04:32

       What does he say to do now?

    2. BPBen Patrick1:04:33

       Now he says motion and get it-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:04:35

       Motion?

    4. BPBen Patrick1:04:35

       Yeah, get... You need to get motion to it. You need to actually get blood flow to it-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:04:39

       Mm.

    6. BPBen Patrick1:04:39

       ... because deicing can actually delay healing.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:04:41

       Yeah, they used to say that icing prevents autolysis, right? Isn't that the... Wasn't that... Isn't that the term where-

    8. BPBen Patrick1:04:48

       I mean-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:04:48

       ... the, your... Because of the inflammation, it breaks down muscle tissue? That was like... I know that this is outdated-

    10. BPBen Patrick1:04:55

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:04:55

        ... but this was at one point in time the, the thought process and they would always tell you to ice injuries.

    12. BPBen Patrick1:05:02

        Yeah, and I think it, you know, I-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:05:04

        Do you think you should ice injuries at all?

    14. BPBen Patrick1:05:06

        Well, I think when you get hurt and you're in pain, the ice works, you know what I mean? And there's a lot of people who-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:05:11

        To reduce pain.

    16. BPBen Patrick1:05:12

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:05:13

        But not necessarily to help heal.

    18. BPBen Patrick1:05:16

        Exac- I think that's where it comes in.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:05:18

        Yeah.

    20. BPBen Patrick1:05:18

        And now I see people are having good results with the idea of doing it, um, you know, for a shorter period of time-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:05:24

        Mm-hmm.

    22. BPBen Patrick1:05:24

        ... like these ice baths and stuff.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:05:26

        Yeah.

    24. BPBen Patrick1:05:26

        Now, unfortunately, if people are expecting to get a bunch of good tips on that kind of stuff, I have no helpful tips because I don't do anything for recovery.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:05:34

        That's wild.

    26. BPBen Patrick1:05:34

        I just do my workouts. I don't take any supplements.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:05:37

        Nothing? No vitamins, nothing?

    28. BPBen Patrick1:05:39

        Only thing I take is, um, i- instant coffee in the morning just to be like... so I'm not like potentially lying about something, but there's an instant coffee called Strong Coffee-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:05:48

        Yeah.

    30. BPBen Patrick1:05:48

        ... and so it, it has about 15 grams of protein in there, so I'm getting my coffee, protein, that would... that would be considered the only supplement I take. I don't take any supplements for anything. It's very important to me that I do nothing for body work, no- no recovery, no massage, no... Any kind of thing that could help my knees, I refuse to take it. Does that make sense?
11. 1:09:23 – 1:31:08

    Strength-through-flexibility: split squats, loaded stretching, and debunking flexibility myths

    1. BPBen Patrick1:09:23

       So I'm in the, um ... I'd love at some point to demo, like cold front splits and shit like that, just so you can see it.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:09:31

       What do you mean?

    3. BPBen Patrick1:09:32

       Like doing the splits and stuff.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:09:33

       Oh, I can do that.

    5. BPBen Patrick1:09:35

       Awesome.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:09:35

       Yeah.

    7. BPBen Patrick1:09:36

       Um, I, I'll just demo this super fast.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:09:38

       Okay, sure.

    9. BPBen Patrick1:09:39

       All right. So ...

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:09:42

        Here we go.

    11. BPBen Patrick1:09:43

        You've got-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:09:44

        People are not hearing this. So you drop all the way down.

    13. BPBen Patrick1:09:47

        Yeah, but-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:09:47

        That's super impressive that you can do that and bounce up.

    15. BPBen Patrick1:09:50

        You can see me like, I didn't just walk in here-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:09:51

        Yeah.

    17. BPBen Patrick1:09:51

        ... like fresh.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:09:52

        No one's seeing this, though, unfortunately.

    19. BPBen Patrick1:09:54

        I know, that's okay. But, uh-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:09:55

        But it's not okay because this is a video podcast. Can I turn a camera on you?

    21. BPBen Patrick1:09:58

        Uh, yeah, I can do that.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:10:01

        All right. So-

    23. BPBen Patrick1:10:02

        I'll see when he's ready.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:10:04

        Here we go.

    25. BPBen Patrick1:10:05

        I think you'll be-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:10:05

        This is a first, folks. This is a first for the podcast.

    27. BPBen Patrick1:10:09

        So, here's-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:10:10

        This is wild that you can do that and just bounce up like that.

    29. BPBen Patrick1:10:13

        Yeah, this left knee wasn't ever supposed to bounce back.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:10:14

        Nobody can hear you, though. So you're, you're ... Come back, come back to the microphone.

Episode duration: 1:58:45