Joe Rogan Experience #1766 - Ben Patrick

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Welcome. What's happening, man?

Ben Patrick 0:14 Hey, man.

Joe Rogan 0:14 We should thank Jamie, because inadvertently, Jamie's the reason why this podcast got started.

Ben Patrick 0:19 You're welcome.

Joe Rogan 0:19 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 0:19 Thank you, guys. Thank you, Jamie.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Jamie t- What... Jamie told me about you, like-

Ben Patrick 0:23 It's probably three years ago-ish?

Joe Rogan 0:26 A couple.

Ben Patrick 0:27 Yeah, at least.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Yeah, for sure, at least a couple. And I've always had, like, weird issues with my knees, for years. You know, I've had-

Ben Patrick 0:33 Yep.

Joe Rogan 0:33 ... both knees reconstructed. As... You've had a bunch of knee surgeries as well, right?

Ben Patrick 0:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 0:38 How many knee surgeries have you had?

Ben Patrick 0:39 Well, I had, with my left knee, partially artificial kneecap. It was a strange-

Joe Rogan 0:44 Artificial kneecap?

Ben Patrick 0:45 Really strange thing. Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 0:48 What's an artificial kneecap? What's it made out of?

Ben Patrick 0:51 Some kind of, like, rubber plastic kind of shit. I was super depressed. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:56 Wow.

Ben Patrick 0:56 I was, I was...

Joe Rogan 0:57 So, like, when you feel it-

Ben Patrick 0:58 I had missed my senior year of basketball, so I was getting... They said, basically, that my kneecap had fractured off, like the upper left side was just fractured, so they had to take it out and put something else in there.

Joe Rogan 1:08 I've never even heard of that before.

Ben Patrick 1:09 You can... Yeah, you can still see kind of where it juts out.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Ooh.

Ben Patrick 1:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13 And can you sit on your... Well, obviously he can't. I've seen you. Be on your knees, no, no issues at all with that?

Ben Patrick 1:17 Yeah, yeah, no issues.

Joe Rogan 1:19 Do you, do you get a-

Ben Patrick 1:19 But I had issues a long time after that.

Joe Rogan 1:21 Yeah?

Ben Patrick 1:21 Until I started, you know, figuring out some alternative training stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Did you... You got a meniscus replacement too, didn't you?

Ben Patrick 1:27 Meniscus transplant. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Now, that is wild.

Ben Patrick 1:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30 What did... What, what, what happens there?

Ben Patrick 1:32 Uh, apparently they, you know, put in a cadaver meniscus and it's-

Joe Rogan 1:35 And how long does it take-

Ben Patrick 1:36 ... takes.

Joe Rogan 1:36 ... before your body takes it?

Ben Patrick 1:38 Don't know. But that one didn't seem like a problem at all. That was e-... That one was easier.

Joe Rogan 1:42 Really?

Ben Patrick 1:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43 So, when they put the cadaver-

Ben Patrick 1:45 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 1:45 ... meniscus in, how long before you were able to really work out again?

Ben Patrick 1:49 Um, that one I would say was, like, in a matter of months I could feel that spot actually felt fine again.

Joe Rogan 1:56 A matter of months?

Ben Patrick 1:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Really? How old were you when that ha- happened?

Ben Patrick 1:59 18.

Joe Rogan 2:00 'Cause I looked into that, and they said they don't recommend it for people over a certain age. It was like... So, I think it might be 50.

Ben Patrick 2:08 People tell me now, they're like, "Oh, you had that?" They don't even... They don't do that anymore.

Joe Rogan 2:11 I think they still do it.

Ben Patrick 2:12 So-

Joe Rogan 2:12 Yeah, at least from what I read online.

Ben Patrick 2:14 I guess more-

Joe Rogan 2:14 They still do it.

Ben Patrick 2:15 I guess more rare-

Joe Rogan 2:16 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 2:16 ... that they would do that.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Do-

Ben Patrick 2:17 And then quad tendon repair. So I-

Joe Rogan 2:19 Quad tendon repair?

Ben Patrick 2:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:20 What happened there?

Ben Patrick 2:21 It's a torn quad tendon. So, that's the tendon above your kneecap.

Joe Rogan 2:25 So, everyone that I've turned on to your stuff, um, has loved it and has said, "Well, God... How come I didn't know about this before?" Like, when... So, we should explain your... Knees_over_toes_guy is your Instagram, uh, handle. And, uh, Athletic Truth Group, right? This is what you guys... Is this... Did you f-... Who founded the Athletic Truth Group?

Ben Patrick 2:49 Yeah. So, before I was on social media, I made a business name, Athletic Truth Group, LLC. And that was my gyms.

Joe Rogan 2:56 And these are your books?

Ben Patrick 2:56 Yeah, I have a couple starting books on Amazon. Um, Knee Ability Zero, so that's the idea of getting stronger knees. Bodyweight, You Don't Need Anything.

Joe Rogan 3:05 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 3:06 That came about during COVID. You know, I had to figure out for people, there's no gym.

Joe Rogan 3:10 Right.

Ben Patrick 3:11 And then the other book goes over, like, my classic stuff, so that's called ATG for Life. So, that was my business. I ran a gym for seven years prior to COVID.

Joe Rogan 3:18 So, you knew you had all these injuries. You were really depressed. You felt like your knees were falling apart and that was gonna hinder your ability to do what you love. You loved to play basketball.

Ben Patrick 3:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:28 And so how did you devise and what... Where did... What research did you do to figure out all these, uh, strength and conditioning methods to strengthen your knees?

Ben Patrick 3:38 First clue was from a guy named Charles Poliquin.

Joe Rogan 3:41 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 3:42 So, at the time, I was painting walls for my dad, just... I was out of high school. I was a, you know, a bum. When you're an athlete, you don't get a scholarship.

Joe Rogan 3:51 Right.

Ben Patrick 3:51 You know? People think you failed at life, you know.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Right.

Ben Patrick 3:55 But I was painting walls, researching relentlessly, and I saw a cr-... a clue from him about the farther and stronger your knee can go over your toes, the less chance of knee injury you have.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Which is always contrary to what they always tell you in gyms. At least they used to tell you, "Don't ever have your knees over your toes as you do squats. It's very dangerous."

Ben Patrick 4:14 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 4:15 So, I, I believed that all the way up to that time. So, I quickly started looking into this. Charles, rest in peace, he was an older guy, so I couldn't find any video of him doing it. But he had this... a disciple named Keegan Smith, an Australian strength coach. Um, and there I could see video examples of him doing it, and they're intentionally training knees over toes. So, I just... It was almost kind of like a shotgun thing. I just started trying everything. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 4:42 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 4:43 And I quickly found that what got me the least pain was actually the lowest level of "knees over toes" training, which is basically dragging a sled backwards. And I would do anything I could find for this. I'd put my car in neutral and have a buddy in my car, and I'd put a butt... my butt against the bumper and just backwards. So, I'd be... (laughs) I'd move my car in neutral, but backwards.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 5:06 Dragging a sled backwards. And I used that to carry me through and, and went from there and was able to return to my sport and do a lot of cool stuff.

Joe Rogan 5:16 So, who figured out the dragging a sled backwards thing?

Ben Patrick 5:20 It's so cool. First off (laughs) , credit has to go... This is Chinese wisdom passed down generation to generation to prevent cartilage breakdown, to prevent arthritis in elderly, so they actually have their elderly start walking backwards. So-

Joe Rogan 5:36 Oh.

Ben Patrick 5:36 So, you have i-... In China, you have walking backwards. Meanwhile, in Finland, in the forestry industry, they would drag trees backwards. So, like, they would be dragging trees. And then, have you heard of American powerlifting coach, Louie Simmons?

Joe Rogan 5:52 Yes.

Ben Patrick 5:52 He's a legend. Louie was trying to figure out the secret of these Finnish guys who are getting such strong knees and backs and stuff, and they credited the, the forestry as their, like, foundation-

Joe Rogan 6:04 Really?

Ben Patrick 6:04 ... of dragging trees. So, he popularized-... and so, he could probably, you know, tell someone much more in detail. But the, the idea of a sled, of dragging something as a form of human exercise.

Joe Rogan 6:18 Hmm.

Ben Patrick 6:19 That's the history as I know it.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Louis Simmons, uh, also created the Reverse Hyper-

Ben Patrick 6:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:25 ... which, uh, I've used, uh, to strengthen my back, and I know a lot of people that had disc issues. He developed it to, uh, deal with... It's really kind of a crazy story, because they were telling him that he needed to get his discs fused, because he had, um, uh, you know, d- disc issues where his discs were pushing on his nerves, where he was, uh, you know, having, uh, bulging issues, bulging discs. And so, he was like, "Well, if something compressed them, then something can decompress them. So, how do I decompress them?" And so, he developed... You, you're aware of the Reverse Hyper, I'm sure.

Ben Patrick 6:59 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:00 It's an amazing machine.

Ben Patrick 7:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:01 And it's the first machine that I've ever seen that actively decompresses the muscles while strengthening the muscles. So, on the deceleration, or the decline, it actively decompresses your spine. And then when you ascend, when you lift your legs up, it strengthens all those lower back muscles. It's a genius-

Ben Patrick 7:18 Yep.

Joe Rogan 7:18 ... piece of equipment.

Ben Patrick 7:20 Yep. So, he was already on the side of, um, he didn't want to go through with the surgery-

Joe Rogan 7:24 Right.

Ben Patrick 7:24 ... for his back.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 7:25 And he figured out how to rebuild his back, and went on to, you know, hit insane powerlifting numbers and stuff. And it was the same for me with... For me, my corollary was jumping super high-

Joe Rogan 7:35 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 7:35 ... you know? So, that was something I actually could never do before all my knee problems, but because of figuring this out, all this stuff, basically figured out how to put rockets in my knees. Now I can jump super high.

Joe Rogan 7:46 That's so crazy, 'cause I've watched your videos and how high you jump. I mean, you almost can put your chin on the rim.

Ben Patrick 7:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:52 It's wild.

Ben Patrick 7:54 What's... You know, a lot of people can jump high, but I think what's cool is, um... This, I was demoing some stuff.

Joe Rogan 8:01 And h- are you about 6'1"? How tall are you?

Ben Patrick 8:04 6'1".

Joe Rogan 8:04 Yeah, so when you jump like that, like, that's crazy, like, how high you can get up, and you tell me that you didn't used to be able to jump at all when you were young.

Ben Patrick 8:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:13 That's nuts.

Ben Patrick 8:14 Yeah. So, that's what makes my story unique, because my, my, all my coaches I played for, they'll attest, and they've attested on camera, like, what a terrible athlete I was (laughs) you know.

Joe Rogan 8:25 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 8:25 Um, now-

Joe Rogan 8:27 That Ben used to suck!

Ben Patrick 8:28 Yeah. Now, for anyone watching, I actually set up, and I'll leave it there 'til well after the podcast, but I set up my f- s- top six Instagram posts, that's what you see when you go to page.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 8:38 To quickly educate on all the main stuff we're talking about here. Just-

Joe Rogan 8:42 I've sent your stuff to so many people.

Ben Patrick 8:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:44 And some of my friends already knew it. My friend, was already doing it, and he-

Ben Patrick 8:47 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 8:48 He, he had some knee issues, and then he started doing the split squats. And doing split squats completely eliminated all of his knee injuries.

Ben Patrick 8:55 That's wild.

Joe Rogan 8:55 I don't know if he g- does your whole program.

Ben Patrick 8:57 That's interesting, 'cause I follow him, but I've never talked to him.

Joe Rogan 9:00 Yeah, he's-

Ben Patrick 9:00 I'd love to meet him.

Joe Rogan 9:01 ... he's a big fan of yours. Um, as of many of my friends are. The, uh, backward sled thing is something that I've recently implemented. You know, I have a, a yard. It's got, it's got a nice, long piece of grass. And so, I stack that sucker up with, like, 100 pounds, I put it on the sled and I just (grunting) . And it's, it's amazing how much it's helped. It just... My knees feel different. They feel like... It's hard to say. It's like they feel more stable, you know? It feels like there's m- they're more rigid. Like, there's more there. I mean, they still work great, like with stuff. Like, I'm 54.

Ben Patrick 9:36 You're... And I saw him at... So, for the record, he was playing with my one-year-old out there, and your knees are bending great.

Joe Rogan 9:44 Oh, yeah, yeah. They're, they're very flexible, yeah.

Ben Patrick 9:46 So, anyways, I just wanted to put that out there, like for anyone who hasn't seen you in, in action, I was very impressed.

Joe Rogan 9:52 Oh, just playing with them?

Ben Patrick 9:53 Well, just to see how your knees bend. D- you can deep squat, you can rest on your knees, all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't have any issues like that, no. My, my issue is torque.

Ben Patrick 10:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:02 It's from kicks.

Ben Patrick 10:03 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:04 That's my issues. Like, it's mostly meniscus. The amount of torque that you put on your knees when you throw a kick, and then I'm hitting a 130-pound heavy bag, and I'm doing it for like, you know, an hour a day. That's a lot of force. And I love to do it. And so, for me, it's like, okay, I'm not gonna stop doing this. Like, I'm gonna stop doing it when I have to stop doing it.

Ben Patrick 10:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:29 And, and until I have to stop doing it, I'm gonna figure out what I can do to strengthen my knees and make them better.

Ben Patrick 10:35 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:35 Your exercises have 100% made my knee stronger. 100%.

Ben Patrick 10:40 I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 10:41 It's re- it's really amazing.

Ben Patrick 10:43 So, with those kicks, and a lot of people out there can relate, you do that 'cause it's something you wanna do. It's not like that's the healthiest thing for your knee to go with this... I mean, the amount of torque is probably, like, in the thousands of pounds every time you throw out a kick, if you add all up all, you know, all that force. And it's the same with jumping. Playing basketball is not good for your knees-

Joe Rogan 11:02 Right.

Ben Patrick 11:02 ... but, but I wanna do it.

Joe Rogan 11:03 Right.

Ben Patrick 11:04 So, that's where the sled comes in, because every step that you're going backward, you're strengthening your knee. But there's a fundamental difference between the sled and any other exercise that I do. The difference is that only you move the sled, so the sled never moves you. When you do squats or anything like that, you're taking some degree of risk. You're... The weight is gonna move you down-

Joe Rogan 11:29 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 11:30 ... and then you're gonna move it back. So, I w- last time I was in LA, I'm on the roof of my apartment and I have one of those internal resistance sleds up there. And my neighbor's 82, and he wants to join me for a workout. He doesn't know who I am. He's just... I can instantly put him on a sled. And this is an internal resistance one that you can push and you can go backwards. I can-

Joe Rogan 11:51 I've seen that one.

Ben Patrick 11:52 Yeah. If you pull up my Instagram, I put, so that anyone listening can get the world's fastest education, meaning I'm just... I made for the podcast, I spent the last week preparing six posts in order. So, let's go to that one on the top left. The current human exercise fundamental-... is walking forward with a machine doing the work for you, a treadmill.

Joe Rogan 12:13 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 12:14 Okay? It should be the human doing the work. Even pushing a sled would be so much better. You can put an older person on pushing a sled. Only they move the sled, so you don't have the, the, you know, with a squat or something like that, there's a lot more chance of, uh, of injury.

Joe Rogan 12:31 Right.

Ben Patrick 12:32 But we, we want those effects of a squat. But for example, I go six days a week I sled, and one day a week I squat. You see the difference there?

Joe Rogan 12:40 Is that what you do?

Ben Patrick 12:41 Six days... I, every workout, I sled first.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Really?

Ben Patrick 12:45 I d- it doesn't matter if it's upper body, I sled first. It-

Joe Rogan 12:47 So is that how you warm up? Or is that-

Ben Patrick 12:49 That's how I warm up, but it also, it gets my cardio in. It gets... If you go right to the second post, someone can see exactly the benefits I'm talking about. You actually get a foot workout when you push a sled.

Joe Rogan 13:02 For sure.

Ben Patrick 13:03 Okay? And so I think most of us humans, we're missing training our feet.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Yeah, I would-

Ben Patrick 13:07 So-

Joe Rogan 13:07 ... agree with that too.

Ben Patrick 13:08 Right. So right off the bat ... And you were mentioning Louie Simmons and the reverse hyper-

Joe Rogan 13:13 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 13:13 ... and how it's like, how you can rebuild a back. When you push a sled, you get a very similar effect, 'cause you're not loading your spine.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Right.

Ben Patrick 13:20 So pushing a sled and then going backward at least as much. So I, I do more backward than I do forward. But I sled every day.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Mm.

Ben Patrick 13:30 S- so every time I work out, the first thing I do is I sled.

Joe Rogan 13:34 No kidding, 'cause I've only been doing it once a week.

Ben Patrick 13:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:36 And I've been thinking, you know, like, "Oh, I don't wanna overdo this."

Ben Patrick 13:40 And that's what's interesting, is that it's a lot easier to overdo exercises. And it's the crazy impressive exercises I can do that get views on posts. The sled is not interesting.

Joe Rogan 13:51 Right.

Ben Patrick 13:52 But the sled is what I've definitely done more than any human being over the last 10 years. So the best thing I can do is just relate the exact, you know, path I took.

Joe Rogan 14:01 So how does one know when they're overdoing the sled?

Ben Patrick 14:04 So first off, if the sled had 1,000 pounds on it, it just wouldn't move.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Right.

Ben Patrick 14:11 So you already have that difference. It's much harder to get into a tricky situation on the sled, and we really haven't seen such a thing. Like people have asked this a lot, "How do I..." Like, "What's too much?" There's actually, in the last five years, there's one dude who has sledded more than me, and I've made him my training partner now. Like I'm like-

Joe Rogan 14:30 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 14:30 ... "Dude," like, "your mission in life is to push me. Push me every day of my life. You push me."

Joe Rogan 14:34 He sleds every day as well?

Ben Patrick 14:36 Go look at the second slide on that. My training partner's 43, and he has reversed his body. He can dunk a basketball, and he's the guy in, in all my posts. So he's 43 years old. He's the youngest looking 43-year-old I've ever seen. He's, he can now dunk a basketball. He's completely shredded. He's-

Joe Rogan 14:55 Damn!

Ben Patrick 14:55 In the last five years-

Joe Rogan 14:56 Look at that. That's crazy.

Ben Patrick 14:58 He's out-sledded me in the last five years.

Joe Rogan 15:00 One-handed hang while he's extending his legs, contracting his abs, and holding a 45-pound plate.

Ben Patrick 15:07 Okay. He ra- he rarely does that. That's... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:09 But that's fucking wild. That's wild.

Ben Patrick 15:13 For me.

Joe Rogan 15:13 What does this guy do?

Ben Patrick 15:15 He's a trainer.

Joe Rogan 15:16 Pff. Man.

Ben Patrick 15:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:19 Fucking sign me up. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 15:20 Yeah, he, he, he wrote the, um, he wrote the gym book with me. It's a, it's intended to be like our gentlest starting tips for longevity.

Joe Rogan 15:29 So that wheeled, uh, sled, what is the difference? Is that, does that have resistance on it? Like can you...

Ben Patrick 15:35 We can break it down.

Joe Rogan 15:36 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 15:36 That's actually the third slide. So anyone-

Joe Rogan 15:38 Oh.

Ben Patrick 15:38 I tr- I basically put in 100 plus hours of work just to prepare every commonly asked question from the podcast, so that anyone can go see. So I love a real sled. Like I heard you're putting a gym in here.

Joe Rogan 15:51 Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're putting a gym next door.

Ben Patrick 15:53 Turf and-

Joe Rogan 15:54 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 15:54 ... a real sled, you're gonna be hooked. But think about out of your driveway, a real sled is tough, uh, to find a good surface for traction. And you need friction, but if it's like choppy, that's no good.

Joe Rogan 16:08 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 16:08 It has to be a smooth friction.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Oh, okay.

Ben Patrick 16:10 That's the cool thing about the sled, is being able to get a smooth friction. So it's-

Joe Rogan 16:13 But, uh, but it's kind of smooth on grass, right?

Ben Patrick 16:15 Kind of, but it depends on the grass.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 16:17 Also it would depend, you'd have to have a s- you know, certain degree of weather.

Joe Rogan 16:22 Hmm. Yeah, that's true.

Ben Patrick 16:23 You would, you would be susceptible to maybe your foot hitting something.

Joe Rogan 16:26 But we're 100% putting turf in next door.

Ben Patrick 16:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:28 So that's not an issue.

Ben Patrick 16:29 But you could-

Joe Rogan 16:30 How wide do you think the turf should be? 'Cause that's an issue-

Ben Patrick 16:32 Doesn't-

Joe Rogan 16:33 ... we're trying to figure out right now.

Ben Patrick 16:33 Doesn't really matter how wide, just depends on how many sleds you're gonna put in.

Joe Rogan 16:37 Right.

Ben Patrick 16:37 So I think even if it's about four feet, I think p- for every four feet or so, you can have a sled.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Okay.

Ben Patrick 16:43 Do you mean how long or, or just how wide?

Joe Rogan 16:44 No, wide.

Ben Patrick 16:45 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:46 Because the, the, the width issue. We're just trying... We're mapping out the gym right now, so there's like a jujitsu area with the-

Ben Patrick 16:52 Sweet.

Joe Rogan 16:52 ... kickboxing bags. And then there's going to be, uh, my daughter does gymnastics, so there's a-

Ben Patrick 16:58 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:58 ... springboard area. And then there's, um, a cardio area and heavy bag area.

Ben Patrick 17:03 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 17:04 So we have all the stuff set up, and we're trying to figure out where the, um, the, where this AstroTurf is gonna be-

Ben Patrick 17:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:12 ... and like how wide it should be, the track.

Ben Patrick 17:14 Yeah. I mean, ideally, you run it just along one side of the gym.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 17:17 So you just let it run from one end to the other. And then depending on how many people are gonna be training there, like if it's... if only one person would, would need to use the sled at a time, then I think about four feet.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Okay.

Ben Patrick 17:28 So you could go like 4 or 8 or 12, I think you'd be fine.

Joe Rogan 17:31 Okay, fine. That's good, 'cause I think w- we have it set up for seven feet, and it's just not gonna be that many people here. So-

Ben Patrick 17:36 Seven's great.

Joe Rogan 17:37 It's the, it's a p- it's a private gym, so it's gonna be mostly comedians-

Ben Patrick 17:40 Ex- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:41 ... and guys who work here.

Ben Patrick 17:42 Exactly. So, so seven's great. Sled and turf is ideal.

Joe Rogan 17:46 And so you like, like that Rogue, uh, sled-

Ben Patrick 17:49 Rogue dog sled.

Joe Rogan 17:50 ... is an excellent one, 'cause they have a handle too, so you can push.

Ben Patrick 17:52 I li- that's, to me, that's the best. If you can push it on the way there-

Joe Rogan 17:55 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 17:55 ... so that's getting your feet, your hamstrings, your glutes-

Joe Rogan 17:58 Right.

Ben Patrick 17:58 ... without stressing your back, and then, and then backward on the way back.

Joe Rogan 18:02 Right. 'Cause mine, I just, I have a chest harness.

Ben Patrick 18:05 Okay. Okay.

Joe Rogan 18:05 And I put the harness on, and it's got a clip, and it clips to a strap, and I just pull it backwards.

Ben Patrick 18:11 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 18:12 Um-

Joe Rogan 18:12 It's not a Rogue one.

Ben Patrick 18:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:13 But I could get a Rogue one.

Ben Patrick 18:14 Yeah. And a, and a waist-

Joe Rogan 18:15 I love their stuff.

Ben Patrick 18:15 For most people, a waist belt-... will be, like, the, the safest.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Why is a waist belt better than a chest?

Ben Patrick 18:21 I think it's, I think it's easier to balance and s-... you know. Uh-

Joe Rogan 18:25 Balance?

Ben Patrick 18:26 Yeah. Like, imagine for someone who's starting and is very fragile, and now the strap is coming all the way up to the chest area.

Joe Rogan 18:33 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 18:33 They could actually... Like, you're pretty fit and athletic, but having the-- so it could still work, obviously-

Joe Rogan 18:40 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 18:40 ... at the chest. But most people will struggle with the coordination, I guess you would call it.

Joe Rogan 18:45 I see.

Ben Patrick 18:46 Uh-

Joe Rogan 18:46 Should I switch, or is it okay what I'm doing?

Ben Patrick 18:49 I mean, if it's working, there's no need to change it. The concept is still the same.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 18:53 It's just something-

Joe Rogan 18:54 So I'm not having any issues with it at all.

Ben Patrick 18:54 It's just something for most people to know that a waist belt will feel... Plus, I me-... You can see with the waist belt, you could even kind of rest your hands on the belt and just-

Joe Rogan 19:01 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 19:01 ... have a bit, a bit more control for someone-

Joe Rogan 19:04 Got it.

Ben Patrick 19:04 ... who's less fragile. But again, I'm taking people who are, you know, coming off gnarly knee injuries, you know-

Joe Rogan 19:09 Hmm, right.

Ben Patrick 19:10 ... people who are 70s, 80s, even 90s. So I just want to make sure it's all the, you know, the safest state.

Joe Rogan 19:17 Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. Um, I, I also was doing another one of your recommendations, which is the b- going backwards on the treadmill with n-... the engine off. But I should tell you, my friend Phil, who used to own a gym, said that you could blow out the engines-

Ben Patrick 19:32 Yeah. My post, my post on that one says, um-

Joe Rogan 19:35 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 19:35 ... "Great for the human, maybe not great for the machine." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:37 Yeah. Apparently, uh, it can-

Ben Patrick 19:39 I p-... I put that in every post now. Like, "Look, it... you can take a treadmill that's not turned on, put your, you know, turn around, and use-

Joe Rogan 19:47 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 19:47 ... your strength to spin it-

Joe Rogan 19:49 Right.

Ben Patrick 19:49 ... but it may not be good for the treadmill." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:53 (laughs) Well, someone needs to develop an ATG treadmill, where it can handle that kind of resistance.

Ben Patrick 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 D- what about one of those... Well, those aren't strong enough. The, I, I have one of those air runners, which is-

Ben Patrick 20:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:05 ... awesome for running on. You know, it's like the self-propelled. It's actually, I think... What did they say, Jamie? It's like 15% harder than regular running?

Ben Patrick 20:14 That sounds right.

Joe Rogan 20:15 Something like that, right? It's... I like it a lot. I'm, I'm a big fan-

Ben Patrick 20:19 It's great for running.

Joe Rogan 20:19 ... of that. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 20:20 Um, if they come out with a model that you can put resistance-

Joe Rogan 20:23 Right.

Ben Patrick 20:24 ... because people have sent me video. I'm like, "That could be a little sketch trying to go backward on it."

Joe Rogan 20:29 Yeah, there's no-

Ben Patrick 20:30 And there's no, there's no resistance.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Right.

Ben Patrick 20:31 It's too easy. So let's break down that point, because it's actually the resistance that makes it fundamentally safer.

Joe Rogan 20:36 Right.

Ben Patrick 20:36 Meaning if I, if I just tell my 82-year-old neighbor, "Go sprint," (laughs) I mean-

Joe Rogan 20:41 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 20:41 ... something bad is gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 20:42 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 20:43 But when he's against a sled, s-... you're basically trying to find the right amount of weight that slows you down-

Joe Rogan 20:49 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 20:50 ... but still allows you to get into a natural motion. Obviously, if it's 1,000 pounds, it won't move.

Joe Rogan 20:54 Right.

Ben Patrick 20:54 So the best weight is gonna be right in the middle, a medium amount of weight that slows you down, so you're not taking any, like, jarring... You know, like when you throw a kick-

Joe Rogan 21:03 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 21:03 ... that's the psh (imitates impact) like all that impact coming in.

Joe Rogan 21:06 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 21:07 But if you can get into a smooth resistance pushing and going backward with the sled, you're now actually working your knees in that similar motion of the kick, or in basketball, the landing or the jump, these, these positions that really hurt at the point of impact. And you notice how you're able to get, like, circulation? So that's part of the trick, is to get those knees to heal. Okay, we got to get them stronger, but how do we get them to heal at the same time without the strength work increasing the risk of injury? You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 21:33 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 21:33 So it's... it can be tough to get out of that knee injury, knee pain cycle, and that's where the sled comes in. It's the solution.

Joe Rogan 21:41 I am... uh, yeah. I mean, I'm someone who has worked my legs out forever, like most of my life, but I've never done these exercises. And part of me is like, "How the fuck did I not know about this? How am I finding out about this from Jamie and then from Instagram?" (laughs) I mean, from you, really.

Ben Patrick 21:59 It's very simple. It's very simple how this occurs. So I wasn't taught it either and didn't get a scholarship to college (laughs) , painting walls during the day. I have nothing. I had no backup plan. So I was like, "All right, I'm not gonna make it as a basketball player. I'm just gonna figure out how to bulletproof my knees." So then I start really digging into the corners of the Earth to find data. You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 22:22 Right.

Ben Patrick 22:23 The... Everything we're talking about right now in this podcast without question will be in the textbooks in 20, 30 years.

Joe Rogan 22:30 Wow.

Ben Patrick 22:31 But it takes a long time for textbooks to change. You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 22:35 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 22:36 So you're not gonna find the stuff we're talking about in the main textbooks that people are going to schooling and learning. So I find some pockets of information, work really hard on it, rejuvenate my knees, manage to market myself and get a college basketball scholarship. Played two years at a junior college. You know, like in America, we have these two-year JUCO, lot of, lot of wild stories. Had an amazing coach there and kept healing my knees while playing. So, like, I was improving as I was going through my first years of college. Got a full ride D1 scholarship at age 23.

Joe Rogan 23:12 Wow.

Ben Patrick 23:13 So I went from Mr. 18-Year-Old on my butt... Oh, you know, like, people from my hometown, by the time I was 23 getting a D1 scholarship, it was like, "What the heck is going on?" So I actually had started training kids in the summer just because it was like this unbelievable thing that had happened. But here's what I'm getting to. I go to this Division I school, and the strength coach, who has his degrees from college and everything, he's not gonna let me do my drills, the very things that got me the scholarship. Isn't that a wild concept?

Joe Rogan 23:47 What did he say?

Ben Patrick 23:48 "You're not allowed to do your Knees Over Toes stuff here." So-

Joe Rogan 23:52 Wow.

Ben Patrick 23:52 ... the school gave me a scholarship, full ride. I'm gonna be, you know, living out my dream, having a chance to play in March Madness, whatever. Now, I mentioned I was 23.

Joe Rogan 24:02 Right.

Ben Patrick 24:03 So I get (laughs) a call from the head coach before the season, and he tells me, "NCAA has denied your eligibility. They say you're like... your clock is up." None of us knew. It's a very rare thing. I've never heard of this happening of someone, like, fixing their knees and then later going to college. So we did a whole appeal process. But in the back of my mind, I was like-... I don't want to now have to go two years trying to train behind the strength coach's back. And look at the system. So it's like, it's not his fault. He's just doing what he learned in the textbook.

Joe Rogan 24:36 Right.

Ben Patrick 24:36 How the heck is the textbook gonna change? You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 24:39 Did you have a conversation with him privately?

Ben Patrick 24:42 Um, anyone can relate, if you've been in team sports and you bring something up to, like, the head strength coach or the head coach or something like that, there's a lot of pressure.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 24:52 Like, it's like you're risking getting in murky water, having a bad reputation on the team. So I never got past that, that opening conversation with him of like, you know, "I've been doing these things."

Joe Rogan 25:06 So did he see you doing it? Like how did this happen?

Ben Patrick 25:08 Yeah, yeah. I told him which exercise, like, "These are the things I've been doing that are like, that have me able to play." 'Cause I couldn't play before. So these are-

Joe Rogan 25:15 So, so explain, explain how the conversation takes place.

Ben Patrick 25:19 So I meet him. He's gonna be running my program.

Joe Rogan 25:22 Right.

Ben Patrick 25:23 And I say, "Okay, I need to add in these things." Like you've seen these knees-over-toes split squats, right?

Joe Rogan 25:30 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 25:30 Very uncommon exercise. "No, no, no, you're not gonna be doing that here." So it's just a total stop. So I'm not gonna be doing, no-

Joe Rogan 25:37 So he tells you you can't do them.

Ben Patrick 25:39 No knees over toes.

Joe Rogan 25:40 But does he say why?

Ben Patrick 25:41 No. It's no knees over toes in his gym. So I knew I was gonna have to be going, you know, just on my own time outside of school and classes and workouts to keep up my routines. So when this whole thing went on with my eligibility getting denied, um, I was reques- I was... The head coach thought I should just get a lawyer, I'd be able to fight it. But I, I actually just withdrew from the thing and became a trainer.

Joe Rogan 26:08 So when he was saying this to you...

Ben Patrick 26:10 Yep.

Joe Rogan 26:11 ... did you try to argue it? Did you try to say, "This is what's helped me." Exactly. "This is what got me here."

Ben Patrick 26:17 Exactly. That's-

Joe Rogan 26:17 Then what did he say?

Ben Patrick 26:19 No knees over toes in his gym.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Did you show him some of the literature? Did you show him some of the Poliquin stuff?

Ben Patrick 26:24 No, no.

Joe Rogan 26:24 No?

Ben Patrick 26:24 I never got that far. But it was also, for me being a new recruit college kid, it was like, that was a, that was a, an intimidating moment for me. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 26:34 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 26:35 I didn't have excellent communication skills. I was a nobody, you know.

Joe Rogan 26:38 I see, I see. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 26:39 I was just a new recruit.

Joe Rogan 26:40 That sucks.

Ben Patrick 26:41 Yeah. But in his mind, he's just enforcing what he believes, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 26:48 And what he learned in college.

Ben Patrick 26:48 ... is the right thing to do, exactly.

Joe Rogan 26:49 Right. I mean, he's literally a professional.

Ben Patrick 26:51 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 26:52 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 26:52 So new data can come out, and new data has even come out on full knee bend and your knee going over toes and stuff like that, and how it actually leads to less pain and more athleticism. But now from the moment that data comes out, it's not like the textbooks magically all switch, you know. I mean...

Joe Rogan 27:08 Right.

Ben Patrick 27:09 The whole curriculum and textbooks and the tests, and so even in my first couple years of college, I would have to be guessing on tests. Like is the answer the actual answer that's up-to-date right now? Or is the answer what the textbook thinks is the answer? Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 27:25 Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

Ben Patrick 27:25 And it goes like that for diet, and y- you see like new data is constantly coming out, right?

Joe Rogan 27:30 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 27:30 So that's why for me it's, it's really nothing. Um, I'm not even trying to be critical of that system. There's so many cool aspects to college and stuff like that. I just knew I had to create an alternative.

Joe Rogan 27:45 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 27:46 So I just, it was like a light bulb went off and I just went hardcore as a trainer from that point. I've, you know...

Joe Rogan 27:54 Now how, when did you start getting traction? Like when did people start paying attention and recognize like, "Hey, this guy is really onto something?"

Ben Patrick 28:02 Making results in person. So I had a gym for seven years, and I became known as the knee guy.

Joe Rogan 28:08 Where was your gym at?

Ben Patrick 28:09 Clearwater, Florida. It's like a beach town by Tampa.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Sure. My sister lived there.

Ben Patrick 28:12 Tampa is still main city. Oh, cool. So getting results in person, became known as like the knee guy, and quite honestly friends telling me like, "You need to like go on social media and stuff like that."

Joe Rogan 28:24 Hmm.

Ben Patrick 28:25 So I hated social media at the time.

Joe Rogan 28:26 Why'd you hate social media?

Ben Patrick 28:27 This was only a few years ago. (laughs) I don't know. What reasons could you come up with? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:32 All of them. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 28:33 Exactly. So...

Joe Rogan 28:34 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 28:35 So, but I did realize, okay, I'm gonna need to approach social media the same way I approach knees and try to become as competent as I can possibly be and be patient with it and be responsible and... You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:50 Hmm.

Ben Patrick 28:50 And so-

Joe Rogan 28:50 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 28:51 I really liked Gary V because he had a positive vibe, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:54 Maybe too positive.

Ben Patrick 28:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:56 I'm just kidding. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 28:58 I really like Gary V because it seemed like you could be yourself and do, and actually win on social media.

Joe Rogan 29:04 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 29:04 And you're the same way. You're just you.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 29:07 And you're winning more than anyone. That's, you know, another conversation. Thanks for everything you're doing. You're the voice for us right now, so...

Joe Rogan 29:15 I don't wanna be. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 29:16 I, I understand. I understand. I can't even imagine. But there are examples you can just be you. You can just try-

Joe Rogan 29:23 Yes.

Ben Patrick 29:23 ... to help people. You don't have to be perfect. I can make as many mistakes as we regress-

Joe Rogan 29:27 Sure.

Ben Patrick 29:27 ... but tomorrow I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna try to help people. And the next day I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna try to help people.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 29:30 And that's how I'm gonna measure my life, by how much I help people. There's no ego. If I made a mistake, move on, try to help people more. So I've just been doing that since. And I did count up though for, you know, if someone wanted to be realistic about it, if you're like me, you're from a small town, you have no special connections or anything, I answered over 500,000 messages.

Joe Rogan 29:52 Oh my God. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 29:53 Be- before, before I hit like 100,000 followers.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Oh my God.

Ben Patrick 29:58 So I'm at like, so...

Joe Rogan 30:01 How do you have the time for that?

Ben Patrick 30:03 Um, I-

Joe Rogan 30:04 Do you give yourself like a, a, an, a, like an allocation?

Ben Patrick 30:08 I, I'm very organized. I also have gone multiple years of my life without any entertainment sources whatsoever. So like this past year, 2021, I did no TV, no Netflix, no video games, not a single sports game of any kind.

Joe Rogan 30:20 Oh my God.

Ben Patrick 30:21 Yeah. So...

Joe Rogan 30:22 That sounds monastic.

Ben Patrick 30:24 Well, I can-

Joe Rogan 30:24 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 30:25 ... I don't consider myself a lucky person.

Joe Rogan 30:28 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 30:28 So I had to go, "Okay, (laughs) I know how much this, dragging this fricking sled works."

Joe Rogan 30:33 Right.

Ben Patrick 30:33 And it gets your cardio in, and you can put older people on it, and you can rehab on it. But people aren't aware of it the way I am. How do I get there?

Joe Rogan 30:41 Right.

Ben Patrick 30:41 Okay, I wanna get lucky. I want my post to do well. I want people to know what I know.

Joe Rogan 30:45 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 30:46 So I tried to put luck on my side and, and literally work at it harder than anyone else was gonna work at putting, you know, uh, the negatives out there.

Joe Rogan 30:56 Well-

Ben Patrick 30:56 Here's this empowering, positive thing I'm trying to get out. Went hard at it.

Joe Rogan 31:00 It's clearly effective. It's just, it's very amazing the kind of dedication that it takes to have no entertainment, no Netflix, no video games. Jamie would die.

Ben Patrick 31:10 One-

Joe Rogan 31:10 Look at him over there.

Ben Patrick 31:11 ... of the best things I ever did.

Joe Rogan 31:12 He would literally die.

Ben Patrick 31:12 One of the best things I ever did. I did no cheat meals the whole year too.

Joe Rogan 31:15 What?

Ben Patrick 31:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:16 Nothing?

Ben Patrick 31:17 No cheat meals.

Joe Rogan 31:18 Well, you're pretty shredded.

Ben Patrick 31:19 I appreciate that. But here's the-

Joe Rogan 31:22 No pizza?

Ben Patrick 31:23 No.

Joe Rogan 31:24 Nothing?

Ben Patrick 31:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:24 No pizza at all?

Narrator 31:25 None at all.

Ben Patrick 31:25 My wife's out there, and she's onto... She would rat me out if I was lying to you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:28 (laughs) I'm sure.

Ben Patrick 31:29 But I got something really good out of that. And I've rolled around in this year, and I haven't. I didn't go back because when you finish the end of the night, and you watch a TV show or something like that, and you have some pizza or whatever, those are, like, a temporary form of happiness. You know what I mean? Like-

Joe Rogan 31:46 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 31:46 ... like, it, it, it... Now, imagine if you don't have that, and you wanna make yourself, like, super happy. You know what I mean? So I spent a ton of time working my business. I spent so much time with my kid. I've taken that kid on, like, like, a thousand walks on my chest. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 32:02 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 32:03 And we're super tight. And I've helped so many people. That made-

Joe Rogan 32:06 Your kid is very tuned in.

Ben Patrick 32:08 I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 32:08 He's really f- he's fun. Like, he looks at you. Like, when we're playing with the, uh, Hyperice vibrating ball.

Ben Patrick 32:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:14 We have this, um, massage ball. It's called, um, Hypersphere, I believe it is, and it has varying levels of, of vibration that is amazing for rolling out, little tightness. Like, so this was not... It was just an accident. I, I've had this thing going on with my neck, so I came in here today, and while we're talking, I said, "Well, you know, it's not gonna seem weird to you. Like, you're an athletic guy."

Ben Patrick 32:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:40 So I put my hood on, and I put this vibrating ball, and I started doing these rolling things on my neck. And your son was like-

Ben Patrick 32:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:45 ... "What is going on over there?" And so then when I give it to him, I was pointing to the little button. And how old is he?

Ben Patrick 32:52 One.

Joe Rogan 32:53 He's very smart 'cause he was realizing that the button was causing that thing to vibrate. And then I'm like that, like that, and I point, and he puts his finger on it. And then I push down on his finger, and his eyes light up.

Ben Patrick 33:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:03 He's tuned in, man. It's, that's, uh, obviously all the, the time that you spend with him, interacting with him, is really having an effect on him. And he's obviously very smart too.

Ben Patrick 33:13 Man, super appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Oh, it's so cute to watch him play with that ball.

Ben Patrick 33:17 It's his new favorite toy.

Joe Rogan 33:17 Well, it's his now.

Ben Patrick 33:18 But even to me, I'm like, "How does he zone in on that tiny... " Now he can do it-

Joe Rogan 33:21 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 33:22 ... within minutes. He was just, already had it down.

Joe Rogan 33:24 Yeah. Well, it's cool. Um-

Ben Patrick 33:27 He spends a lot of time outdoors if I'm not watching TV. You know, he's not really-

Joe Rogan 33:31 Right.

Ben Patrick 33:31 I don't put him in front of screens and stuff.

Joe Rogan 33:33 Oh, that's great.

Ben Patrick 33:34 Now, I'm not gonna withhold him at all. He's gonna be free to eat pizza. He's gonna be free to, you know, be in front of screens. And I think what's realistic is, like, I think if I live this way that I like to live Monday through Friday, I think he'll be cool with that, you know. He'll be like, "All right, Dad doesn't watch TV during the week." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 33:51 Right.

Ben Patrick 33:51 We can still watch a movie. We can still have pizza on the weekend. That's still 104 days a year to be normal.

Joe Rogan 33:56 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 33:56 But I, I've really fallen in love with this style of living 'cause it's like you're trying to, like... You gotta, you gotta do more. (laughs) You gotta get out there to be happy 'cause you can't just resort to these temporary things.

Joe Rogan 34:08 Yeah. Well, that is true. Like, but I think you actually enjoy what you do.

Ben Patrick 34:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:12 And when you enjoy what you do, you're not, uh, you're not longing for something that you appreciate doing. I think there's a real problem with a lot of people that their day is a lot of suffering.

Ben Patrick 34:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:24 And, uh, um, you know, not real suffering, but it's discomfort.

Ben Patrick 34:28 I know what you mean.

Joe Rogan 34:28 So they don't enjoy it. They don't like their job. And so when they get home, they cannot wait to get in front of that computer and play a video game, or get-

Ben Patrick 34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 ... wait to binge on some Netflix and order some food that they enjoy, but that's-

Ben Patrick 34:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 ... bad for their body.

Ben Patrick 34:41 Yeah. And it's totally normal, but it may prevent them from getting to their long-term goals if they're... You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 34:46 Yes.

Ben Patrick 34:46 If they're doing that all the time. But it's... I get it. (laughs) I'm-

Joe Rogan 34:49 I get it too.

Ben Patrick 34:50 I can-

Joe Rogan 34:50 But I see what you're saying too.

Ben Patrick 34:51 I can do... I can... Anything you're describing, I've been addicted to. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 34:55 Right. Right.

Ben Patrick 34:55 So I totally get it. But... And like you said, with, you know, doing stuff during the day, um, that we don't wanna do, I can relate to that too. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 35:02 Um, that was kind of how school was a lot for me. So, like, one thing with my kid, super simple, is like, okay, when it comes time, and he has to, like, you know, think about reading, and that can become stressful. You have to read these books and stuff. Imagine if we just picked what we wanted to read about.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Right.

Ben Patrick 35:18 I think we'd be better at reading.

Joe Rogan 35:19 Well, I figured that out when I was young because I was absolutely convinced that I was gonna be a loser because I couldn't-

Ben Patrick 35:26 Really?

Joe Rogan 35:26 ... concentrate in school. I could, I didn't care.

Ben Patrick 35:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:29 I could, I could not pay attention. I was just... And I guarantee that if I had different parents and maybe if it was a different time in history, I would have gotten on some sort of ADHD medication.

Ben Patrick 35:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:40 They would have said, "This kid's fucked." Like, "In order for him to be a productive member of society and graduate college and all that, you're g- we're gonna need to put him on some medication so he can pay attention in school." I guarantee 'cause I couldn't pay-

Ben Patrick 35:51 Wow.

Joe Rogan 35:52 I did not give a fuck what they were talking about. And so I thought that I was going to be a loser. I was like, "I'm just... I can't work. I can't, I just can't focus." Then I discovered martial arts.

Ben Patrick 36:03 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:04 And I could do nothing else. Like, what was... That was all I could think about, was that. And I was super focused. And then I realized, like, "Oh, I just need to find something I like." And it just, it was like a bell went off. And then there's a, there's an expression that I learned when I was, uh, doing TaeKwonDo when I was young, is that...Martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. And that is a, is an amazing statement and it proved to be so fucking accurate, because what martial arts showed me was that if there was something that I really loved and enjoyed, and something that gave me great satisfaction, I dedicated my time to it, I could reap tremendous results from it. And it set the tone for my entire life, like all of my work ethic, all the things that I've done since then, I mean, all of it, I owe to martial arts. And I owe all of it to this realization that it wasn't that I didn't have the ability to focus, it's just that I am fiercely opposed to focusing on something I don't give a shit about. And, but when it's something I do give a shit about, I am fucking all in and I become obsessed.

Ben Patrick 37:16 Wow.

Joe Rogan 37:16 I was like, so what I thought was just a terrible personality flaw that I have and, uh, a discipline, a, a complete lack of discipline that I had, was actually not the case. I just, I'm completely opposed to being forced to do something that's uninteresting. And that is the majority of this country. The majority of this country is stuck in this situation where they have to do something they're not really interested in. And so, what do they do? They find enjoyment out of the social aspect of work, working with people that they like, so that's good. So they're doing something they don't like, but at least they like the guys at work and they like the people that they interact with, so that's where they, they get their enjoyment from. And then when they get home, then they find some other stuff to do.

Ben Patrick 38:04 Yeah. That's, that's powerful, but it totally makes sense.

Joe Rogan 38:08 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 38:08 It seemed like it was a character flaw, but actually it was a great ability you had and by not being focused on stuff you weren't interested in, that means it was opening you up to focus on some really powerful stuff. You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 38:20 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 38:20 Like if you had, if Joe Rogan had just gone with the flow, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 38:25 Yeah. If I'd given in, I would be fucking doomed.

Ben Patrick 38:27 You see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 38:28 I would not be me, for sure. I wouldn't be as successful.

Ben Patrick 38:31 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 38:31 And there, there's also a thing about energy. Like kids have so much energy, they don't wanna sit down and do something boring hour after hour. So if you have a boring class and that class is over and you have another boring class and that class is over... And also, I went to public school and a lot of the teachers, it's nothing, not a knock against public school, some of the teachers were great.

Ben Patrick 38:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:51 But a lot of the teachers were like really uninterested.

Ben Patrick 38:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:55 They were just showing up and doing their job. And all they wanted was you to listen and pay attention. And I couldn't fucking care less.

Ben Patrick 39:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:02 I really couldn't. And I was completely sure that I was gonna be a loser. I was so insecure about it, I was like s- I was thinking about my future and I was like, "Man, like what am I gonna be? Like I can't... Uh, there's not a thing that interests me. Like this sucks." And it... I was convinced that this was because there was something wrong with me, until I found something I loved. And then I got so good at it so quickly and I was so dedicated, I was like, "Oh, okay." And then when I quit that and started doing comedy and then I started applying the, sort of the same mentality from martial arts to comedy, I was like, "Oh, you can get good at anything. You just have to dedicate yourself to it."

Ben Patrick 39:41 Bingo.

Joe Rogan 39:42 That's what a lot of people don't realize or don't have the opportunity to learn, because they get stuck into a system. Like maybe you have like overbearing parents that want you to go down a very specific path, like, "Hey Mike, you're going to be a doctor. Hey Jill, you're going to be a lawyer. You're gonna do this or you're gonna do that, and this is what the family wants." And then you're, you're like trapped.

Ben Patrick 40:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:03 You're fucking trapped. And maybe you really wanna do something else.

Ben Patrick 40:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:06 Maybe there's something that's exciting to you.

Ben Patrick 40:07 I know. I was, I was lucky my parents were like... (laughs) I mean, if you finish with the nice stuff I had (laughs) and no recruitment for college and I'm still like, "Yeah, I'm still gonna be a basketball player." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:20 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 40:20 And they were like, "Okay, yeah you are."

Joe Rogan 40:22 That's great.

Ben Patrick 40:23 Now they're like, "You're still gonna work hard in the meantime." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:25 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 40:25 But they were ne- they never made me think that they didn't think I was gonna make it as a basketball player.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Well, that's good, 'cause my mom did not think I was gonna make it as a comedian. (laughs)

Ben Patrick 40:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:36 And she didn't think I was gonna make it as a fighter either. She's like, "What are you doing? You're gonna get hurt." She'd like... But that's just 'cause she's a mom, you know? If your baby-

Ben Patrick 40:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:44 ... someone you make in your body wants to kick people in the head for a living, you're like, "What the fuck are you doing?"

Ben Patrick 40:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 You know, "Don't do that."

Ben Patrick 40:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Yeah. It's, um, it's gotta be, I mean, it's immensely hard now to be a parent. But to be a parent in the 1960s when my, my mom gave birth to me, like fucking who knew what to do?

Ben Patrick 41:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:03 You know, no one had any good data.

Ben Patrick 41:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:05 You know, you had Dr. Spock, he wrote a couple of books.

Ben Patrick 41:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:08 (laughs) You know, like there's, there's so little to... Like people didn't understand how much variety there are, there are in human beings and what their interests are and what their desires are. They really just didn't know.

Ben Patrick 41:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:21 So it's like, uh, most people that raise kids, they learn from their mom and their dad or their grandparents or the people that are around them. And so you kind of like, you- you adjusted based on your instincts and what you've learned along the way, but all you learned was from the way you were raised. Today, we have such an amazing amount of information about the- the different styles of parenting and the benefits of those and like why it's important for your children to en- encounter adversity, why like... One of the things I've found with my kids is introducing them to sports, getting them used to losing, getting... And like losing's important, like it's very important.

Ben Patrick 42:05 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:05 And learning why you lost and learning to make adjustments and learning that bitter sting. Like, uh, you know, one of my kids was, uh, playing basketball and she, they had a terrible game and I was like, "Listen, it is so much better to lose," because then you realize like when you missed and it sucks and you could have won the game if you made that... Well, fucking practice more.And then maybe you'll make it next time. Like, g- become dedicated, become obsessed, and then you will reap the rewards of that. And then you will understand that you can apply that to all aspects of your life.

Ben Patrick 42:37 100%.

Joe Rogan 42:38 It really is a, it's a, it's a f- complicated formula but it's also simple.

Ben Patrick 42:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:42 It's complicated in that it's, you're dealing with the human mind, which is filled with doubt and anxiety and emotions. And you're also, y- you're in the middle of all the other everyday life stresses and relationships and, you know, job pressure. And then you're trying to figure out, like, "How am I going to feed myself? How am I going to prosper in life? How am I going to not be a loser?" Like, "How am I gonna be someone who, when someone runs into me that I, you know, went to school with a few years from now, how am I gonna not be embarrassed to tell them what I'm doing with my life?"

Ben Patrick 43:18 It's really how we handle losing is low-key (laughs) , you know.

Joe Rogan 43:22 It's so important.

Ben Patrick 43:22 My ... You know Mark Bell?

Joe Rogan 43:25 Yes.

Ben Patrick 43:26 That guy mentors me so well. He sends me messages all the time. We stay super tight. Just this morning, he was like, "Life is low-key how you handle losing."

Joe Rogan 43:35 It's a lot of it. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 43:36 Yes, it's-

Joe Rogan 43:37 It's a lot of it. Yeah, how ... And losing is so important, in everything. Bombing in comedy-

Ben Patrick 43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:41 ... has been one of the most important teachers-

Ben Patrick 43:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:43 ... for me. Because-

Ben Patrick 43:44 Why?

Joe Rogan 43:44 Like, especially once you ... Once you get your legs under ... In the beginning, it can be fucking ruthless. But once you get your legs under you and then you have, like, a bad set, the f- bad feeling that comes with a bad set is the ultimate motivator 'cause it makes you go back and reassess and dig in. Some people, though, not. Like some people with an emotional, with emotional issues, like, it causes them to spiral. And then they're paranoid in the next set. They're even w- more fearful that they're gonna have a bad set and then they have m- ... It's the same thing that happens with fighters when they lose. When fighters lose, uh, it, it's particularly at a high level, when you, you notice it in MMA, like, there's, there's fighters that are streaking and they're doing really well and you're like, "Wow, this guy has, like, real world-class championship potential." And then they have a loss and that loss devastates their confidence, and sometimes they never bounce back. Sometimes they bounce back, but there's some struggles and then they return ... Like, a good example is, uh, Francis Ngannou. Francis Ngannou is the UFC Heavyweight Champion and he's actually defending his title this weekend against this guy, Ciryl Gane, who is his most formidable challenge. And Francis was this juggernaut who was destroying everybody. Made it to the UFC Heavyweight Title and then got beaten up by Stipe Miocic, who is a, uh, a, uh ... He's the most accomplished heavyweight champion of all time, Stipe is. One of the all-time greats, without a doubt. Goes down in history as one of the all-time greats. Stipe figured out how to avoid Francis's devastating striking power, get him to the ground, and wear him out and beat him up, and just dominated him in a five-round decision. Francis was devastated after that fight. And for the next fight, he fought like shit. He had another fight afterwards and, against this guy, Derrick Lewis, who's a very dangerous guy as well. And him and Derrick had this completely uneventful fight where neither one of them would pull the trigger, but Derrick did enough to win the decision, but it was one of the worst heavyweight fights of all time, with one of the most exciting heavyweight knockout artists ever fighting the other most exciting heavyweight knockout artist ever, and neither one of them pulled the trigger. It was terrible, but it was just his psychological defeat. It wasn't just a physical defeat to Stipe Miocic, it was the remnants of the psychological defeat. But then the pain of that was so frustrating and infuriating that he dug deep, revamped his training, switched camps, changed gyms, changed his approach, started destroying everybody, and then came back and devastated Stipe in the rematch.

Ben Patrick 46:23 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:23 Just knocked him out, and now he's the Heavyweight Champion of the world. So it's one of those things where it's like, "Ooh, after the Stipe fight, let's see how he rebounds." He didn't rebound good at all. He looked terrible in that Derrick Lewis fight. And everybody was like, "He might not ever make it." Now, boom, he's the Heavyweight Champ of the world and one of the scariest motherfuckers that ever walked the face of the Earth. He figured it out.

Ben Patrick 46:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:45 But he figured it out partially because of that loss. If he just went in there and knocked out Stipe in the first round, in that first fight, he probably wouldn't be the fighter he is today. He probably would've-

Ben Patrick 46:56 Probably worked harder.

Joe Rogan 46:56 Yeah, he probably worked harder-

Ben Patrick 46:57 Learned more.

Joe Rogan 46:58 ... learned more, developed his endurance more, realized how to pace himself more. It was the most valuable yet painful lesson. And those losses are so much better than those wins. If you think of his wins, like the knockouts of Curtis Blaydes or the knockouts of Junior dos Santos, I'm sure it boosted his confidence. I'm sure it showed him that he could perform at the highest level in the big stage. But not as much as that loss. That loss was like, that's the burning embers that will not fucking go out.

Ben Patrick 47:24 Probably still fuels him (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 47:25 Probably. Probably gets up to pee in the middle of the night and is like, "Fuck!"

Ben Patrick 47:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:29 "That guy kicked my ..." Even though he knocked him out in the rematch, it's probably this-

Ben Patrick 47:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:32 ... in the back of his head.

Ben Patrick 47:34 But I think it's like most of us go through life and never quite realize is that, like, the future's unwritten.

Joe Rogan 47:39 Yes.

Ben Patrick 47:39 The ... You can be typecast, you can this (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 47:42 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 47:42 I was typecast as the fragile nigga. I had nicknames for this. My high school nickname was Old Man-

Joe Rogan 47:47 Really?

Ben Patrick 47:47 ... because of my knees. Now, it's like the, that's my ultimate advantage now, is my knees, when I play basketball.

Joe Rogan 47:54 That's so wild.

Ben Patrick 47:55 So the thing I was worst at is now what I'm best at, so-

Joe Rogan 47:57 That's so wild.

Ben Patrick 47:59 Yeah. And, and for people out there, like, even if you think, "Oh, my knees are shot. I can't do anything about it," find a sled. Start dragging it backwards.

Joe Rogan 48:11 Now what about people that have a lot of cartilage damage and meniscus damage?

Ben Patrick 48:15 More damage, the more you need the sled, because it gets the circulation. The toughest thing is when you start losing that ability to communicate to an area. So if you just have great knee bend and bla- ... It's very easy to get in there, work out your legs. What happens when you can't even figure out how to work out your legs because your knees hurt so much? You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 48:34 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 48:34 ... that's where the sled is the trick. We haven't really seen, it, there's no such thing as, like, uh, too much damage when it comes to just, okay, if you can walk, you can walk backwards. If you can walk backwards, you could drag a pound backward, two pound, keep going, more circulation while getting strength at the same time. You can will yourself out of extremely devastating knee issues. But I would say that you'd have to put in 100 miles, resisted, backwards, to know for sure, you know, "Oh, am I actually doomed or not?" And the more you do it, you start getting more communication in the area. You start getting stronger. It starts getting better. So, that's, that's been my formula for a long time now, and I think it would take the average person about five years of consistent work. But that would seem like, oh my God, five years. You know? But we don't think anything of spending decades to become good at a bench press or martial arts. You know what I mean? Or the piano.

Joe Rogan 49:32 Well, that's the other thing is if you don't do those five years, your knees are just gonna still suck, and those five years-

Ben Patrick 49:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:37 ... are gonna happen whether you like it or not.

Ben Patrick 49:39 Still getting cardio. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:40 Yeah, it's not like you hit pause on the world-

Ben Patrick 49:42 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 49:42 ... and like go, "Let's just pause life and time, and, and I'll do something else for five years."

Ben Patrick 49:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:48 No, the five years are gonna happen.

Ben Patrick 49:49 I'm talking five minutes or let- you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 49:51 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 49:51 I'm talking about 100... Like, my average is about 100 meters a day backward.

Joe Rogan 49:56 That's it?

Ben Patrick 49:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Oh, okay.

Ben Patrick 49:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:59 I, I was doing long sessions.

Ben Patrick 50:01 You can.

Joe Rogan 50:02 Is that good? Is that bad? Like, I'm not sore.

Ben Patrick 50:05 I think, I think, over the years, I've seen that the more frequent-

Joe Rogan 50:10 Is more important?

Ben Patrick 50:10 ... because it allows you to get that circulation.

Joe Rogan 50:12 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 50:12 Having a really good set-up and getting it in more frequently, um, I've seen has worked really well.

Joe Rogan 50:19 What is it about going backwards?

Ben Patrick 50:21 Yep. So, anyone listening to this could stand in front of a mirror right now, and if you went to take your first step backward and, and paused right where you're at, first off, your knee is over your toes. Now, what originally scared people out of knees over toes is that when your knee is over your toes, there's more pressure on your knee. That's the position that the pressure goes into the knee, when your knee is over your toes. But now it's been found out that bodies with more pressure on them age biologically younger, not the other way around. So, it's actually when we start avoiding these areas of pressure that a joint will degrade and get really fragile. So, this is a way to get that pressure in a safe way with your knees over your toes. So, every step backward, you're strengthening your knees over your toes to some degree. The better you get at it, the more you do it, the more you add up that pressure that actually makes the area stronger and gets it to heal and gets it to be younger. So, there was a gross misunderstanding of knee over toes equals more pressure on your knee, therefore avoid the area completely.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Hmm.

Ben Patrick 51:24 And I can see why that would be. That could make sense. But that was just a, a conclusion based on seeing that there was more pressure, not realizing that the way human bodies age and stuff, they actually need motion and pressure, even something like compression, like a knee bending all the way. Motion and compression is how you get synovial fluid to carry nutrients to the joint. So, we would think avoid bending a joint (laughs) to make it last longer. It's the opposite. Now, just forcing into pain, that wouldn't make sense either short-term. You see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 51:58 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 51:59 So, my job is like an art of, of how do you get motion and compression and pressure? How do you do all that stuff safely? So, it's a, it's, uh, a subject in itself, but that's not a subject that you can learn in any textbook yet. You see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 52:15 Right.

Ben Patrick 52:16 But that will be in the textbooks. It's all being... These are actually, like, just basics of physics and anatomy and how the body works. But exercise is pretty new, if you think about it, you know?

Joe Rogan 52:27 Yeah, like rigorous exercise on large scale, like amongst the entire population of the planet, how old is that? Is it 100 years?

Ben Patrick 52:33 Right. No-

Joe Rogan 52:34 Yeah, not even.

Ben Patrick 52:34 ... there's no way it's e- Right. And okay-

Joe Rogan 52:36 Right.

Ben Patrick 52:36 ... when did it get common and stuff? R- Arnold Schwarzenegger and guys popularized it.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 52:41 But they were trying to pump up their muscles. They weren't worried about long-term knee issues and stuff.

Joe Rogan 52:45 Well, when did the Olympics get really popular? Like, what was the first year... Well, obviously it was very political during World War II, right? And it was, um, in World War I as well, right?

Ben Patrick 52:59 It's been going for a while.

Joe Rogan 53:01 So, that's, we're, we're talking the early 1900s there. Like, what was the year where the Olympics became something that everybody was aware of? Like, what, first of all, when did they start?

Ben Patrick 53:14 (laughs) I don't know.

Joe Rogan 53:14 1896.

Ben Patrick 53:15 1896.

Joe Rogan 53:16 1896.

Ben Patrick 53:16 And what was the, where was the first one?

Joe Rogan 53:17 Greece. Greece. Oh, w- of course.

Ben Patrick 53:19 Well, I believe so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:21 Interesting.

Ben Patrick 53:22 Now, I, I know that dating back to the late 1800s, there was already evidence in books of people doing that Nordic hamstring curl exercise. So, the-

Joe Rogan 53:31 Really?

Ben Patrick 53:31 ... concept of exercising with our own body weight goes back quite a long time.

Joe Rogan 53:37 So, someone was holding the ankles down, or what were they doing?

Ben Patrick 53:41 Yeah, yeah. It was in a sort of gymnastic setting. So, that exercise dates back to gymnastic background, and that's basically-

Joe Rogan 53:47 Oh.

Ben Patrick 53:47 ... that's being able to levitate your body from behind your knee.

Joe Rogan 53:50 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 53:51 So, there, there's another example of, like, what do I teach? Okay. Pull-ups, super common. You can go into any gym in the world. People want to be strong with their own body weight, but not behind their knee.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Right.

Ben Patrick 54:02 There's not... Those Nordic benches I use, they're not set up for that.

Joe Rogan 54:06 Where does one get one of those Nordic benches? What-

Ben Patrick 54:08 Right now, Rogue or-

Joe Rogan 54:10 Rogue has a Nordic bench?

Ben Patrick 54:10 ... Sorinex, and they call them-

Joe Rogan 54:12 Oh.

Ben Patrick 54:12 They call them either floor glute ham or poor man's glute ham. And, and really it's a cheap, super cheap device. It's-

Joe Rogan 54:18 Well, I have a glute ham machine too. Can I do it off of that?

Ben Patrick 54:21 It's similar. That one rolls the pressure from the knee to the hip. So, that's, like, a great foundation. But it's not as much pressure behind the knee.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Right.

Ben Patrick 54:30 But I know exactly what you're talking about. Awesome, awesome device, and that would be great. That would be totally acceptable if someone was doing that. It, but it wouldn't be as much pressure behind the knee.

Joe Rogan 54:39 So, the pressure behind the knee is key, because that's what strengthens the knee.

Ben Patrick 54:42 If you wanna have a really...

Joe Rogan 54:44 This is the rogue one. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 54:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:47 I'll bring mine in. I got one. Oh, you have one of these? Yeah. Oh. Nice, yeah.

Ben Patrick 54:49 Um, now someone can see this. If you go to my Instagram, if you go to the fifth post, um, you can see this in action. So someone can see what we're talking about. So the one that says Most People in Pain-

Joe Rogan 55:00 I feel like we should put orders in before this podcast-

Ben Patrick 55:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:03 ... comes out.

Ben Patrick 55:05 Y- you definitely should if you want one. (laughs) So-

Joe Rogan 55:07 Now I thought that tib bar, I love that thing.

Ben Patrick 55:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:10 I, you guy... Someone sent me the newest one. You s-

Ben Patrick 55:13 So here's the Nordic coming up.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Okay.

Ben Patrick 55:14 There it is.

Joe Rogan 55:15 Now my mom's controlling it on the way down. I was going up, but this post was illustrating an example that there are muscles that, like that, like the tibialis muscle, it's that muscle on the front of the shin, you can see it at the start of this post if you just let- Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 55:27 ... the post play again. So Most people in pain, we've been lifting. We've been lifting loads to failure. You can stay on that exact post. Yeah, it'll show it. We've been lifting. We've been taking muscles to failure, but we've been skipping entire muscles that relate to pain. That one right there, that's your first li- I mean, that's every kick you throw, every step you take.

Joe Rogan 55:47 Right.

Ben Patrick 55:49 There hasn't even been a study yet on strengthening that.

Joe Rogan 55:51 No, I've never even heard of s- strengthening that until I saw your-

Ben Patrick 55:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:55 ... posts.

Ben Patrick 55:55 But it's understandable because I'm not gonna land on Men's Health for my tibs.

Joe Rogan 55:59 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 55:59 I'm not gonna... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:01 (laughs) You should.

Ben Patrick 56:02 I, I actually... H- here's the story, and people are walking around with shirts now that say, "Chicks dig big tibs." But-

Joe Rogan 56:07 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 56:07 ... I was training a high school football team and I actually had to come up with clever ways to get them to buy into being the strongest in these smaller areas. And so I convinced them that they, that women looked at pictures of men with and without shorts and that men who had those tibialis muscles were m- like subliminally more attractive to the women. So I had these, these-

Joe Rogan 56:26 Is that true?

Ben Patrick 56:27 No, not, not at all. There's n- there hasn't even-

Joe Rogan 56:28 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 56:28 There hasn't even been any studies on it. (laughs) So... (laughs) But they, they bought into it and-

Joe Rogan 56:35 (laughs) You lied.

Ben Patrick 56:35 ... they had it... Yeah, I lied.

Joe Rogan 56:35 You lied for their benefit.

Ben Patrick 56:36 I lied for their benefit and they're now like a Division One scholarship factory. But getting stronger in these smaller areas, it's understandable why someone wants to go into the gym and pump up the biceps and not pump up the tibs.

Joe Rogan 56:50 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 56:50 But what if your quality of life is being able to do your sport or something?

Joe Rogan 56:54 Yes.

Ben Patrick 56:55 Th- I mean, that could change your life quality. I'm so happy just because I know that this Sunday, I get to hoop with my boys.

Joe Rogan 57:01 Mm.

Ben Patrick 57:02 My friends.

Joe Rogan 57:03 Yeah. Right. Right.

Ben Patrick 57:03 And not just that, but I get to throw down dunks, are you kidding me?

Joe Rogan 57:06 Right.

Ben Patrick 57:06 It's like waking up from a dream every s- time I get to go hoop. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:09 Because you were worried that you would never be able to do it again.

Ben Patrick 57:12 I never thought I'd be able to play basketball without, you know, debilitating knee pain. I was hooked on painkillers, icing my knees four times a day, just to go out every few months an- and try to play. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:24 Really?

Ben Patrick 57:25 Yeah. And I'd never even grabbed the rim or something like that, and let me tell you, sports are more fun when you're dangerous. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:31 Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Ben Patrick 57:32 Right. So now there's no way anyone's done more tib raises than me and more-

Joe Rogan 57:36 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 57:36 ... backward sled, but that's not-

Joe Rogan 57:38 Right.

Ben Patrick 57:38 ... that's not sexy. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:39 It's not sexy, like bench press.

Ben Patrick 57:40 So that's the... Exactly.

Joe Rogan 57:42 Right.

Ben Patrick 57:42 That's the mission for me. That's the, that's the grind for me, is that I have to make sexy these areas. And that, they weren't even making any equipment to train to strengthen your tibialis with free weights anymore. It had fallen off the face of the earth. You couldn't buy them anywhere. My buddy reached out and said, "What needs to exist that doesn't?" I drew up some diagrams. Boom. Now they're being used by pro athletes all over the world. But more importantly, helping people in their 70s, 80s, 90s, to be able to walk longer without winding up in a walker. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 58:15 Yeah, yeah. There's, there's a bunch of exercises that you guys suggest that are transformative for martial artists. One of them is the monkey feet.

Ben Patrick 58:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:24 That-

Ben Patrick 58:24 That was in that post of these areas we don't train with measurable loads, but go on.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yeah, I re- I recommend that to everyone. Um, there's something about the hip flexors, that if you can develop those from lifting the weights with your feet with that device, you can develop much more power in your kicks.

Ben Patrick 58:45 You use it every kick.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Yes.

Ben Patrick 58:47 Every kick.

Joe Rogan 58:47 Every kick.

Ben Patrick 58:47 And here's where I start to get... This is the point in the conversation I start to get fired up, is because for a fighter, your bench press, sure. Your bench press should be how much weight you lift with your feet.

Joe Rogan 58:57 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 58:57 That's what you should walk into the gym, the cockiest mofo there knowing, "I have stronger hip flexors." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 59:04 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 59:04 "I have stronger knees." I... You want to go into a fight knowing that you've worked your Nordic, that you can crush that dude with your strength in your hamstring. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 59:14 Well, the strength in the hamstring, one of the things it's really important for is your guard, uh-

Ben Patrick 59:18 I've heard that.

Joe Rogan 59:19 ... in, in jujitsu. It's gigantic. And a lot of guys will just do leg curls, you know, which is definitely good.

Ben Patrick 59:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:24 It's definitely something.

Ben Patrick 59:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:26 But, you know, leg curls with the monkey feet is so superior. There's something about, like, the, uh, isolating it and balancing it with your one individual leg and being able to do those leg curls. And it's stunning how weak I was when I first started doing it. Like-

Ben Patrick 59:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:43 ... like that, like this woman's doing here. Look at that booty. Goddamn.

Ben Patrick 59:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:47 Um, that is-

Ben Patrick 59:47 I, I would advise someone, go very light, okay? So-

Joe Rogan 59:50 Yes.

Ben Patrick 59:51 I-

Joe Rogan 59:51 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 59:52 I... People can over... Anything we're talking about here, people can overdo, you know what I mean? And you're training areas you haven't, but it's a free weight.

Joe Rogan 59:59 She's going very, um, shallow. She's not-

Ben Patrick 1:00:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 ... she's not going very deep. How is that?

Ben Patrick 1:00:04 I mean, that's okay. People start off with different ranges of motion.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 So is this for someone who's just starting?

Ben Patrick 1:00:09 You know, this is a common exercise that has been around a long time, the idea of hamstring curls. And I believe that hamstring curls are really good. But I want you to notice something on this, okay? Notice at the bottom of the rep. See how there's... The bottom, there's nothing, it's easy.

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:00:25 See when, see when her leg is straight?

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 1:00:26 When her leg is straight, there's no weight. Now as she goes up, it gets tougher.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:00:30 That's how hamstring curls are. The Nordic I was describing and showing?

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 The opposite.

Ben Patrick 1:00:36 It's the opposite.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:00:36 So, so I believe in doing the hamstring curls for more repetitions with lighter weights. You can get that healing effect, you can get blood flow into the area, um, be very, you know, be gentle with it. But then the Nordic has-... that intense bulletproofing effect because it's getting stronger as that muscle is lengthening.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Mm, I see.

Ben Patrick 1:00:56 Power. It has much more powerful effects on adapting your body versus just general strength and healing. So a leg curl machine, general strength and healing. What was shown there was a free weight hamstring curl, so there's still body weight and free weight versus just machines. You know, it's well proven machines can have their place for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 1:01:16 But there's something really special about free weight, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:01:19 And so that's what... You know, applying the free weight and body weight concept to your ankles and knees and hips has really powerful effects, so if you've gone your whole life... And for me, the reason I became obsessed with the hip flexor was because of being a super slow guy. I, in high school, was like breaking records for my terrible 40-yard dash and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 1:01:40 And just... And it was embarrassing, you know? And even once I started getting to where I could jump better, until I started training that Nordic hamstring curl and the hip flexor and taking those as seriously as other people care about their bench and their squat, (whistles) now basketball is so much more fun because I can really run fast.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Mm.

Ben Patrick 1:02:02 And I've trained a lot of NFL corners and stuff and I'm now like average speed with an NFL corner. That's fun, but impo-

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 That's wild.

Ben Patrick 1:02:08 That was... But without doing measurable overload for the muscles that pick up my leg, I just... It wasn't there.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:02:15 Because the natural athlete has it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:02:17 The natural athlete can go do... It took me years to do what the natural speedsters can do on the Nordic hamstring curl and the hip flexors from day one. You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 Mm. Yes.

Ben Patrick 1:02:26 So that's why I was saying it's... I started to get really fired up about this because the grinder with the work ethic and the skill who doesn't have the body to be a pro athlete, to have that pro... Oh, it's one thing to get the pecs of a pro athlete. No, no, no, but the speed, the kicking power. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:02:40 That explosive quality that is s- so mythical and only the natural... No, no, no. That's, it's physics.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:02:49 You can train it. So I get, I get super fired up about that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 It's just amazing that, as we said, exercise has been around for 100 years or whatever in terms of like large-scale p- populations doing it, but the fact that you're implementing this program that's so revolutionary in 2022. You know what I mean? When did you start putting it out there?

Ben Patrick 1:03:10 In the last few years.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:03:11 Very recently.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 That's, that's very weird.

Ben Patrick 1:03:14 Yeah, people have only been noticing probably in the last year or so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 But it's weird when you think about how much money is involved in sports and how many people are trying to make a living as a professional athlete-

Ben Patrick 1:03:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 ... how many like super dedicated, ultra-driven, and disciplined individuals and they still didn't know about this.

Ben Patrick 1:03:29 Yep, and that's because if we're only going off the data from the education system, you know, we're doomed to that degree.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Yeah. The-

Ben Patrick 1:03:35 Seven-

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Yeah. Please.

Ben Patrick 1:03:37 I was just saying seven... You were saying how serious the athletes are, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:03:41 But seven times as much money has been spent studying how do you accelerate more versus decelerate-

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:03:46 ... even though the majority of our injuries happen in deceleration.

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:03:49 So it's like we're always gonna be the effect of what the education system is as long as we're saying that only what's in those textbooks is true, and that's not the case, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:03:59 Google itself is still operating... Google will tell you that if you have knee pain, you can, you know, ice it, you can take anti-inflammatory drugs which now are looking like actually break down your cartilage, so I was popping those like crazy not knowing those may have been actually wearing down cartilage instead of helping. And then I was icing, icing, icing. That... Google also said to do that. The guy who came up with the rest, ice, compress, elevate, he now says he was wrong. It doesn't even matter that he says he was wrong because it's already in the textbooks what he said 30 years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 What does he say to do now?

Ben Patrick 1:04:33 Now he says motion and get it-

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 Motion?

Ben Patrick 1:04:35 Yeah, get... You need to get motion to it. You need to actually get blood flow to it-

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Mm.

Ben Patrick 1:04:39 ... because deicing can actually delay healing.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Yeah, they used to say that icing prevents autolysis, right? Isn't that the... Wasn't that... Isn't that the term where-

Ben Patrick 1:04:48 I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 ... the, your... Because of the inflammation, it breaks down muscle tissue? That was like... I know that this is outdated-

Ben Patrick 1:04:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 ... but this was at one point in time the, the thought process and they would always tell you to ice injuries.

Ben Patrick 1:05:02 Yeah, and I think it, you know, I-

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 Do you think you should ice injuries at all?

Ben Patrick 1:05:06 Well, I think when you get hurt and you're in pain, the ice works, you know what I mean? And there's a lot of people who-

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 To reduce pain.

Ben Patrick 1:05:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:13 But not necessarily to help heal.

Ben Patrick 1:05:16 Exac- I think that's where it comes in.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:05:18 And now I see people are having good results with the idea of doing it, um, you know, for a shorter period of time-

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 1:05:24 ... like these ice baths and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:05:26 Now, unfortunately, if people are expecting to get a bunch of good tips on that kind of stuff, I have no helpful tips because I don't do anything for recovery.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 That's wild.

Ben Patrick 1:05:34 I just do my workouts. I don't take any supplements.

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 Nothing? No vitamins, nothing?

Ben Patrick 1:05:39 Only thing I take is, um, i- instant coffee in the morning just to be like... so I'm not like potentially lying about something, but there's an instant coffee called Strong Coffee-

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:05:48 ... and so it, it has about 15 grams of protein in there, so I'm getting my coffee, protein, that would... that would be considered the only supplement I take. I don't take any supplements for anything. It's very important to me that I do nothing for body work, no- no recovery, no massage, no... Any kind of thing that could help my knees, I refuse to take it. Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 No (laughs) .

Ben Patrick 1:06:11 (laughs) I need to master the exercise for people.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:06:15 So if any of these things work, then how do I know what I'm getting from the exercises?

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Right, but vitamins?

Ben Patrick 1:06:21 Dude, I eat pretty good.

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 I'm sure you're pretty good.

Ben Patrick 1:06:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 But, you know, how difficult it is to get the approp- Well, how... First of all, how old are you?

Ben Patrick 1:06:28 30.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 Yeah. I'm 54. When you get to be older, then you realize like, n- not that you're older and wiser but your body needs those things-

Ben Patrick 1:06:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 ... in order to recov- like, to maximize.

Ben Patrick 1:06:39 Now I also want... I also want no cheat meals and I eat-

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 That's great.

Ben Patrick 1:06:42 I eat, you know...

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 I'm sure you're eating great.

Ben Patrick 1:06:44 I eat really quality foods.

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 I'm sure you do.

Ben Patrick 1:06:46 So I'm getting a lot. But I'm also not anti-vitamin. I'm okay with using my life to figure out things for people, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Yes.

Ben Patrick 1:06:53 So I just don't want any possible advantage that could help my knees...... that's ... I'm okay, I don't take my life that seriously. I believe you on the vitamins. That-

Joe Rogan 1:07:02 When I was 30 is when I first started really taking-

Ben Patrick 1:07:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 ... vitamins.

Ben Patrick 1:07:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 So I was probably 28, 29, 30, in that range. That's when I started getting serious about vitamins.

Ben Patrick 1:07:11 Yeah. And I took loads of vitamins back when I was trying and-

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:07:15 ... failing to fix my knees.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:07:16 And that's just kind of how powerful some of these simple things, like a sled, can be on pain levels and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:07:23 But I just want to be clear, I'm not, I'm not anti-vitamin. It's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 I understand what you're saying. You just are-

Ben Patrick 1:07:27 Right. And when I'm-

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 ... dedicated to your process.

Ben Patrick 1:07:29 Yeah. And maybe as I go, I will, (laughs) I will adapt. I don't ... There's no ego in it, it's just that right now I know I'm serving people better by not using anything to speed up my recovery. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 I understand that-

Ben Patrick 1:07:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 ... but I don't believe that I would put vitamins in the category of speeding up recovery. I th- I would put them into optimizing your health and optimizing nutrition.

Ben Patrick 1:07:50 And I would listen to you on what vitamins you think are the essentials. Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 Yeah. There's-

Ben Patrick 1:07:54 Like, like what-

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 There's a lot.

Ben Patrick 1:07:54 ... am I not getting from food? You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:07:57 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:07:57 I would definitely listen to that, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Omega fatty acids for sure.

Ben Patrick 1:08:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 D3 for sure.

Ben Patrick 1:08:02 Grass, grass fed meat, wild caught salmon has a lot-

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:08:05 ... of th-, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 Yeah. But you need a lot.

Ben Patrick 1:08:06 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 Like, to, it's, to really maximize your potential, I mean, it's like, uh, the split, look at it this way.

Ben Patrick 1:08:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 If you were a professional fighter-

Ben Patrick 1:08:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 ... and you were gonna fight a version of yourself, like you, but there's you who does sauna, who does ice baths, who takes vitamins, who gets massages, who's like, you know, involved in all sorts of, uh, VO2 max tests and all sorts of different di-, I would bet on that person.

Ben Patrick 1:08:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:37 Doesn't mean that he would win-

Ben Patrick 1:08:39 No.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 ... because maybe you'd be better skill wise or more efficient or more dedicated and disciplined or, or just fucking meaner.

Ben Patrick 1:08:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 You know, like some, there's, there's, there's things that are intangibles, right?

Ben Patrick 1:08:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 But I think, all things being equal, which they rarely are, but all things being equal, the person who optimizes their nutrition has a, a body that functions better.

Ben Patrick 1:09:03 Yep. Now, right now, I'm a coach. So now let's say I'm training that fighter and I'm doing my side on the exercise side, and he's consulting experts, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 Yes.

Ben Patrick 1:09:17 Who are in the trenches on everything you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 1:09:20 Boom.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:09:21 That's gonna be the best fighter. You see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 Yes.

Ben Patrick 1:09:23 So I'm in the, um ... I'd love at some point to demo, like cold front splits and shit like that, just so you can see it.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 What do you mean?

Ben Patrick 1:09:32 Like doing the splits and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:09:33 Oh, I can do that.

Ben Patrick 1:09:35 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:09:36 Um, I, I'll just demo this super fast.

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 Okay, sure.

Ben Patrick 1:09:39 All right. So ...

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Here we go.

Ben Patrick 1:09:43 You've got-

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 People are not hearing this. So you drop all the way down.

Ben Patrick 1:09:47 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 That's super impressive that you can do that and bounce up.

Ben Patrick 1:09:50 You can see me like, I didn't just walk in here-

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:09:51 ... like fresh.

Joe Rogan 1:09:52 No one's seeing this, though, unfortunately.

Ben Patrick 1:09:54 I know, that's okay. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 But it's not okay because this is a video podcast. Can I turn a camera on you?

Ben Patrick 1:09:58 Uh, yeah, I can do that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:01 All right. So-

Ben Patrick 1:10:02 I'll see when he's ready.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 Here we go.

Ben Patrick 1:10:05 I think you'll be-

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 This is a first, folks. This is a first for the podcast.

Ben Patrick 1:10:09 So, here's-

Joe Rogan 1:10:10 This is wild that you can do that and just bounce up like that.

Ben Patrick 1:10:13 Yeah, this left knee wasn't ever supposed to bounce back.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 Nobody can hear you, though. So you're, you're ... Come back, come back to the microphone.

Ben Patrick 1:10:18 I'll come back to the mic. So-

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 'Cause the, the problem is, like, when you're saying that, it's all cool stuff. The way you're doing that, how long did it take before you w- Let's explain what you're doing. He's on his, uh, shins and knees, and he goes all the way backwards, and without using his hands, goes all the way up.

Ben Patrick 1:10:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:35 How long did it take before you could do that?

Ben Patrick 1:10:38 You're looking at years. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 Years.

Ben Patrick 1:10:41 Years. And I think that five year rule on the backward sled-

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 Mm-hmm.

Ben Patrick 1:10:46 ... to get the healing while working on the ranges of motion and stuff. Um, I-

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 That knee thing is wild.

Ben Patrick 1:10:52 I think about five years.

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 That, when you go all the way back.

Ben Patrick 1:10:55 That means you have to have enough ... And I, I wanted to demo it cold, because it's-

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 Right.

Ben Patrick 1:11:00 You know what it's like as an athlete, like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:11:02 ... it's easier to be like warmed up than like show something off, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 Oh, yeah, for sure.

Ben Patrick 1:11:06 So-

Joe Rogan 1:11:06 And now here's a video of you doing it, so.

Ben Patrick 1:11:07 Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 1:11:08 Look at you, doggy.

Ben Patrick 1:11:09 People of-

Joe Rogan 1:11:09 (laughs)

Ben Patrick 1:11:09 People often assume like that I'm in pain or something (laughs) doing that. It's like totally pain free and easy, you know what I mean? It's just an abili-

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 Yeah.

Ben Patrick 1:11:17 But that means at my knee joint that I can handle my own body weight in both range