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Joe Rogan Experience #1783 - Ben Burgis

Ben Burgis is a columnist for Jacobin Magazine, an adjunct philosophy professor at Morehouse College, and the host of the podcast and YouTube show “Give Them An Argument.” He's the author of several books including “Christopher Hitchens: What He Got Right, How He Went Wrong, and Why He Still Matters” and “Canceling Comedians While the World Burns: A Critique of the Contemporary Left.”

Joe RoganhostBen Burgisguest
Jun 27, 20242h 48mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:0015:00

    (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. JR

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. BB

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music) All right, cheers, sir.

    4. BB

      Mm-hmm, cheers. (glasses clink) Salut.

    5. JR

      Salut. Mm.

    6. BB

      Mm.

    7. JR

      So this is for you.

    8. BB

      Oh, thank you so much.

    9. JR

      This is your own ... It's got a little JRE label on the back of it. This is, uh, your own bu- on the side, this little thing.

    10. BB

      Oh, yeah.

    11. JR

      Um, this is a part of, uh, a thing we did with Fight For The Forgotten.

    12. BB

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Which is, um ... I don't know if you know what that is, but it's a, a charity that my friend, Justin Wren, put together.

    14. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      It's, um ... They build, uh, wells for people in the pygmy, uh, pygmy, um, population in, uh, Uganda and in, um, uh, the Congo as well. And so they did a thing with Buffalo Trace where we picked out one very specific batch and they, they literally gave us a barrel of whiskey. So we have ... It was one giant bottle and then a bunch of these bottles to give out to guests. So there you go.

    16. BB

      Nice. Uh, man, this feels strange. I, uh ... You know, I've got to tell you, in the late '90s, I watched NewsRadio all the time, so, you know, get the, uh ... You know, feels, uh, feels weird having a drink with you.

    17. JR

      Yeah. It feels weird just being me, so ...

    18. BB

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      (laughs) It's weird for p- It's weird for people to feel weird to meet me, so that's, that's odd too.

    20. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      Um, so your book, uh, is, uh, speaks to my heart. Did you bring a copy?

    22. BB

      Uh, I did not.

    23. JR

      You have a book with you.

    24. BB

      No, I have a book with me.

    25. JR

      Oh.

    26. BB

      This is, uh ... This is a book by my friend Adolph Reed. Uh-

    27. JR

      Oh.

    28. BB

      So it's, um, about growing up in New Orleans under Jim Crow and, like, kind of how the South and the country has changed and how it hasn't changed. So, uh-

    29. JR

      Mm.

    30. BB

      This is good stuff, but, uh ...

  2. 15:0030:00

    Right. …

    1. BB

      right? But, like Jeff Bezos isn't up for election by anybody, right?

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. BB

      Like, like, like he's just there, right? So like if you have, you know, like if, for example, you know, you, you didn't have like the, uh, public post office, right? It was, it was just like Amazon, you know, taking the, you know, like Amazon trucks and that's it.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. BB

      Then now you're talking about an institution that, uh, that there's no democratic control over, right? There's some like a little bit of indirect control in the case of the, uh, the post office, which, you know, by the way, I would point out that like when conservatives talk about, you know, bureaucracy and inefficiency and stuff like that, they always bring that up. But like if you actually look at polls, like 90% of Americans like the post office, you know.

    6. JR

      The post office is amazing. They can get a fucking letter across the country for less than a dollar.

    7. BB

      (laughs) Right, yeah. Right.

    8. JR

      How crazy is that?

    9. BB

      Yeah, you could write-

    10. JR

      What is the cost for a stamp?

    11. BB

      Uh-

    12. JR

      Let's hit that now.

    13. BB

      Yeah, it's like, uh, I know it's less than a dollar. It's, it's been a while since I actually, uh, you know-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. BB

      ... like I think my wife usually like buys the stuff at the post office.

    16. JR

      I just email stuff. I don't fucking mail shit anymore. But like-

    17. BB

      But like, but the fact that you can take a letter from Austin to like rural Alaska-

    18. JR

      For a buck.

    19. BB

      ... for a buck is-

    20. JR

      Fucking bonkers.

    21. BB

      It's ridiculous. And no private company would, would have the, uh, the incentive to, to do that, right? You know.

    22. JR

      Right.

    23. BB

      And, and I think that that's, uh, like one of the things that Bernie Sanders was talking about, uh, the two times he ran for president, you know, it's not one of the things that was played up the most, is, um, postal banking, you know, which is the idea that you could have like bak- basic banking services offered at the post office, which they actually do have in some Scandinavian countries. And that was-

    24. JR

      Basic banking services like deposits and ex-

    25. BB

      Yeah, yeah.

    26. JR

      ... withdrawals and stuff like that?

    27. BB

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      At the post office?

    29. BB

      At the post office, which is-

    30. JR

      Why would you do that?

  3. 30:0045:00

    Yeah. …

    1. BB

      agree with you because yeah, if there are only a couple million people watching like one of the, you know, traditional networks, uh, at any given night, well th-... then, you know, what's their profit incentive? Their profit incentive is to, like, relentlessly pander to whatever audience they have, they have left. So if, you know, if you're Fox, you know, you, you scare old, you know, conservatives and, you know, whatever. Like, MSNBC has their own version, like we were talking about. But I think that, like, this is why I try to, like, go out and do debates all the time, because which, like, some people, and this is one of the things I talk about in the book, right? Some people on the left don't like that, right? They say that, like, if you're, um, you know, if you're... Like, if you talk to a bad person basically, right? You know, they'll say like, "Oh, you're platforming-"

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. BB

      ... "you know, that, that person."

    4. JR

      That's so stupid.

    5. BB

      Which is a word I hate so much, but they have, uh ... (laughs) But, but-

    6. JR

      I get that more than anybody.

    7. BB

      Yes?

    8. JR

      'Cause I, I, you know... People want to say that I'm like a, a fake liberal because I talk to conservatives and I'm friends with some conservatives. Like, that is the dumbest fucking thing to ever... You, you, we need to communicate with each other. We're supposed to be in a community. The community is the human race-

    9. BB

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... first of all, and then the United States second. We're supposed to be a community. And if there... I have a lot of friends that have completely different perspectives-

    11. BB

      Yeah, sure.

    12. JR

      ... than, than me. They... I have a lot of friends that are, like, very Christian, I have friends that are very Muslim, I have friends that have, you know, no religious affiliation whatsoever.

    13. BB

      Sure.

    14. JR

      I have friends that are right wing and left wing. And I don't, I don't mind all those things. As long as you're not a suppressive person, you're not suppressing people that have an opposite position or an opposite perspective, like, why not? Like, what are we doing here? Aren't we just talking to each other?

    15. BB

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      Shouldn't we, like, communicate with people that are ... And th- but when I have people on, you know, you'll, I'll get all this pushback, like ... Or someone like Ben Shapiro.

    17. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JR

      Ben Shapiro's a lovely guy. Meet him, get to know him, he's very nice. I don't agree with him a lot.

    19. BB

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      A lot! On a lot of stuff.

    21. BB

      Yeah. I mean, look, if, if, uh-

    22. JR

      But I love the guy.

    23. BB

      Sure. I mean, look, if, if, you know, Ben Shapiro ever wanted to, like, come on my show and argue with me, I would, I would 100% do that, right? Because-

    24. JR

      I bet he could.

    25. BB

      Okay. Well, you know?

    26. JR

      But he talks really fast, you gotta be careful, 'cause it's hard to keep up with him.

    27. BB

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      It's like his fucking brain is on a different RPM, you gotta... You... Whenever I talk to him, I try to slow things down.

    29. BB

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      "Slow down, youngster." (laughs)

  4. 45:001:00:00

    Yeah. …

    1. BB

      I don't blame anybody as an individual for, like, taking it, like, like, look, if, if you're told here are the rules, right?

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. BB

      That this is, like, that everybody has to function in, like, within reason, like, if you're not, like, you know, doing some things that I do think, you know, Bezos has done, but, like, you know, but if, you know, but there are, like, a list, you know, like, if you're not, like, busting unions and this and that, right? Then, like, look, if you-

    4. JR

      Look at that.

    5. BB

      (laughs)

    6. JR

      Just look it, how it started. How's it going? They, they did it. Someone did it. (laughs)

    7. BB

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      Ah.

    9. BB

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Look at that. That's fucking amazing.

    11. BB

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      That's amazing. Work hard folks, and you don't have to be a dork.

    13. BB

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      Imagine, shave your head, get a bombshell girlfriend. Whoo, I love it.

    15. BB

      You have to-

    16. JR

      Happy days are here.

    17. BB

      Yeah, yeah.

    18. JR

      Let's go.

    19. BB

      100 billion dollars help?

    20. JR

      That guy's lived different lives. He's lived di- uh, billions of dollars, hundreds of billions, not hundreds of millions, sir, hundreds of billions. That's outrageous.

    21. BB

      Yeah, no, I mean, he's on track to be the first trillionaire, right? It's, uh, that's what they-

    22. JR

      Oh, there's trillionaires out there.

    23. BB

      Yeah. Okay, are there?

    24. JR

      Yeah, I guess, sure.

    25. BB

      'Cause I thought, I thought they were saying, like, in 2020 they were saying that, like, at the end of the... Okay.

    26. JR

      No, the trillionaires are all nonpublic.

    27. BB

      Okay.

    28. JR

      See, if you think about, like, the royal families-

    29. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JR

      ... like, they, they, they don't have to disclose their wealth. These people that have l- literally-

  5. 1:00:001:08:46

    Mm-hmm. …

    1. JR

      an... It's a, it's a dangerous way to, to set a precedent because you're filtering ideas. You're filtering ideas through your own standards. And I don't think that's good 'cause I, I think it's, it's, it's bad for you too. It's bad for your ideas 'cause if your ideas can't stand the vetting-

    2. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      ... of the, of, of an opposing position, then your ideas might suck and you maybe should look at them. Is so- maybe you're lazy-

    4. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      ... and you don't want to go through the, the-... hassle-

    6. BB

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      ... of, of debate or, or of, like, serious discourse. But if your ideas can't handle that kind of a discussion, you probably shouldn't have them. You shouldn't adopt them. You shouldn't be-

    8. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      ... holding on to them. That's my position on all this. And I think this, whenever someone's trying to silence someone, it's, it's more political than it is anything.

    10. BB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      It's more this person has an incredible amount of influence and they don't align up very rigidly with what our ideology is, and they could cause us problems if they discuss certain things in an unorthodox way, and we don't like that. So we're going to silence them and we're going to ch- pretend that they're something that they're not. And we're going to do that openly, and it's going to be obvious.

    12. BB

      Yeah, and I think, and I think especially, like, look, if you think the status quo is totally fine, that, like, everything is the way that it should be, I can, I guess, understand that.

    13. JR

      Who the fuck thinks that?

    14. BB

      (laughs) I don't know. That's a crazy argument. Right.

    15. JR

      There's not a single person alive that thinks everything's perfect.

    16. BB

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      Right? Is there?

    18. BB

      I, I mean, if so, I haven't met them. Uh-

    19. JR

      I never met them.

    20. BB

      But-

    21. JR

      ... so I don't think you can have that argument.

    22. BB

      Yeah, so I mean, if you think that there are things that are really seriously wrong with the society that you live in right now...

    23. JR

      Have discussions.

    24. BB

      ... then, then you, like the last thing that you want to do is to make it harder to get your ideas out- about that out there. So, uh, you know, so people can, people can talk about them, people can, you know, people can, can hear about them, right? Like, I, I think that if you, you know, if you want, um... If you want to have, like, you know, in my case, you think that like we have, you know, we have way too much economic inequality, I think it's particularly crazy to support, like, more corporate censorship.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. BB

      Because again, who do you think (laughs) , you know, who do you think is going to get censored, right? Like, like-

    27. JR

      Exactly.

    28. BB

      ... if, like, if it's, uh, you know, I mean, if there's some Starbucks worker who's, like, you know, got fired when they were trying to organize a union, and Starbucks says that, "No, they weren't really fired for that, it was really, you know, because they-"

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. BB

      "... you know, whatever, they-"

Episode duration: 2:48:31

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