Joe Rogan Experience #1806 - Duncan Trussell

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) We have to be really careful that we don't catch on fire.

Duncan Trussell 0:20 Oh, yeah.

Narrator 0:23 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 0:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:24 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 0:24 That would be really awesome. I mean, it would be horrible for us-

Joe Rogan 0:27 (coughs) Terribly.

Duncan Trussell 0:28 ... but that would, uh, right?

Joe Rogan 0:28 It would be funny. I mean, we have (coughs) f- fake hair and plastic robes on. Not good.

Duncan Trussell 0:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:34 I mean, these are nylon robes and nylon hair. (coughs)

Duncan Trussell 0:38 (coughs) We would be like Michael Jackson. This, it would be the Michael Jackson moment. Remember when he caught on fire that-

Joe Rogan 0:43 He was on a Pepsi commercial, right?

Duncan Trussell 0:45 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:45 That really fucked him up apparently.

Duncan Trussell 0:47 That was the beginning of the end.

Joe Rogan 0:49 Yeah, well, I think the end was, like, already it.

Duncan Trussell 0:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:51 I think it was already, he was already white by then.

Duncan Trussell 0:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:54 (laughs) You can't say that was the beginning of the end. That dude was, you know, many plastic surgeries in. He's one of those g- ca- Like, Eddie Bravo always used to say that, like, that Eddie, that, um, Michael Jackson's plastic surgeon does not advertise that he's Michael Jackson's-

Duncan Trussell 1:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09 ... plastic surgeon. You imagine you have the biggest star in the world and you do his plastic surgery, he'd be like, "Not me."

Duncan Trussell 1:15 "Not me."

Joe Rogan 1:16 "I have nothing to do with that."

Duncan Trussell 1:18 "Not me." Yeah. No, that, yeah. His, like, it was insane-

Joe Rogan 1:22 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:22 ... how much they shaved that guy's face down. Li- It was like-

Joe Rogan 1:25 They made his nose like a tiny European girl's nose.

Duncan Trussell 1:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29 Like a four-year-old's nose.

Duncan Trussell 1:31 Yeah. Horr- horrible. It's horrible.

Joe Rogan 1:33 Just shrunk it down and it was caving in apparently. Didn't it-

Duncan Trussell 1:38 He was a-

Joe Rogan 1:38 Didn't it fall off or something they said?

Narrator 1:40 Something. I don't even know if that's real 'cause it could've been made up.

Joe Rogan 1:41 See if they, you can get a photo 'cause I think there was d- was an issue. See if you can find a photo.

Duncan Trussell 1:46 It's really scary though, man. Like, dem- imagining-

Joe Rogan 1:48 Oh, look at the one on the lower right corner. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

Duncan Trussell 1:53 Hi.

Joe Rogan 1:54 That's what it looked like in real life. So if you saw it in real life, that's what you would see.

Duncan Trussell 1:58 Why do you think I would hurt a child?

Narrator 1:59 Oh, he's got a bandage on it, that's why it looks a little-

Joe Rogan 2:01 'Cause it's caving in. See, the right side of it looks like it's gone.

Duncan Trussell 2:04 And he's, he's, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:05 See that right, looks like a hole there, doesn't it?

Duncan Trussell 2:07 He's, like, his eyes have somehow been enlarged or something, like-

Joe Rogan 2:10 Well, it's that same operation that I think they do with, uh, uh, it's, like, very popular in South Korea, where they trim your lids. They give i- they give him that anime look.

Duncan Trussell 2:21 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Look at that nose. That is wild, man.

Duncan Trussell 2:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:25 He kept going. See, the, the nose he had on the right was, like-

Duncan Trussell 2:29 It's-

Joe Rogan 2:29 ... slightly less ridiculous than the nose on the left.

Duncan Trussell 2:32 That could be a pers- a pers- oh, wait. Yeah, the one on the right i- is probably a prosthetic that he puts on 'cause if you look at the very... See the, like, the-

Joe Rogan 2:41 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 2:41 ... the bridge?

Joe Rogan 2:42 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 2:42 It looks like he painted something or-

Joe Rogan 2:44 Right, it looks a little sketchy.

Duncan Trussell 2:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:46 See that little hole on the right nostril, above the right nostril? The, in the, when the bandage, that's where it looks like it's caving in. And that might've been what was happening to him. Like, look at that photo right there. The, that you had your cursor on earlier, the real creepy one. Right above, yeah, that one.

Duncan Trussell 3:01 But wait.

Joe Rogan 3:02 Look at that one. What the fuck, man?

Duncan Trussell 3:04 That looks, that's like when I try to make something out of clay, when I try to make a human face.

Joe Rogan 3:09 And try to make it look real realistic.

Duncan Trussell 3:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:10 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 3:11 It's like (laughs) the meta-

Joe Rogan 3:12 (sighs)

Duncan Trussell 3:14 Can you-

Narrator 3:15 I'm sorry.

Duncan Trussell 3:16 Out, the reflection in his glasses though, what was that, man? Can you pull that one?

Joe Rogan 3:19 Satan.

Narrator 3:20 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 3:20 No, look, zoom in on that. Is that a tank?

Joe Rogan 3:22 What is that? Yeah, he's in Russia right now.

Narrator 3:24 Yeah, it is a tank.

Joe Rogan 3:24 It's a, he is-

Duncan Trussell 3:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:26 ... a part of the resistance.

Duncan Trussell 3:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:28 What?

Narrator 3:29 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 3:29 What is that though? What is that mass of that, uh, what is that? It looks like a, looks like-

Joe Rogan 3:33 You know what's really crazy? Look at the photo that they just showed, uh, when you go back to all those photos, where it showed him as a young man. Like, look at that. That was him in 1980.

Duncan Trussell 3:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:44 And then by 1983, he was already fucking with his nose. He was trimming, you see? Like in 1980-

Duncan Trussell 3:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:51 ... it was, he looked great. Like, that's what he's supposed to look like.

Duncan Trussell 3:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 So he kept-

Duncan Trussell 3:56 He kept going.

Joe Rogan 3:57 ... he kept going. So it looked like the first shit he had done is in the '70s. Look at that '75 to '79 again, that one that you just showed.

Narrator 4:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:04 Look at the difference. Like, by '79, it looks like he'd already had some-

Duncan Trussell 4:08 A little work.

Joe Rogan 4:09 ... some work done. Oh, the poor bastard.

Duncan Trussell 4:13 Holy shit, man. I think it-

Joe Rogan 4:16 The pro- Like, right there, if he stopped right there, he looks great. You know? He doesn't look crazy. He got to a point where y- you know, it's the same thing that anorexic have. Uh, the-

Duncan Trussell 4:27 They can't-

Joe Rogan 4:28 ... the body dysmorphia. They can't see it.

Duncan Trussell 4:30 Body dysmorphia.

Joe Rogan 4:30 It's like us wearing these wigs. We think we look good.

Duncan Trussell 4:33 And we- (laughs)

Narrator 4:34 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 4:34 You don't think I look good?

Joe Rogan 4:35 (laughs)

Narrator 4:36 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 4:36 I think I look like I'm, uh, like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:40 How is, how is this the number one podcast in the world? Explain that.

Duncan Trussell 4:44 I can't, you know-

Joe Rogan 4:45 Explain that.

Duncan Trussell 4:45 It-

Joe Rogan 4:46 What, what we're doing here-

Duncan Trussell 4:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 ... is what we used to do.

Duncan Trussell 4:48 Well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 Same thing.

Duncan Trussell 4:50 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Exactly the same thing.

Duncan Trussell 4:52 Yeah, it's weird.

Joe Rogan 4:53 Doesn't make any sense.

Duncan Trussell 4:54 It does, I mean, but you, uh, don't you try to actively not think about that?

Joe Rogan 4:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 4:58 'Cause if you think about it-

Joe Rogan 4:59 Yeah, you'll go crazy.

Duncan Trussell 5:00 ... it's like touching an electric fence or something.

Joe Rogan 5:06 It, you'll lose your fucking mind. You, and then you won't be able to do it anymore. It's just like you have to understand, and we all do somewhere, but you're, you're alive in the middle of this experience, and it's playing out, where no one feels comfortable.

Duncan Trussell 5:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:27 No one understands what's happening. No one knows what life really is. No one, not a single person. And yet, we're all calling upon other people for guidance-

Duncan Trussell 5:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:37 ... and leadership-

Duncan Trussell 5:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:38 ... and support. We look to, like, powerful leaders. Like, that's why, me included, everyone is so excited that Elon Musk is trying to buy Twitter. Like, yes, the great one-

Duncan Trussell 5:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:48 ... he's the super intelligent leader type character-

Duncan Trussell 5:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:53 ... that seems to have great ethics and morals too. He seems to be like a guy that if you had a movie character and the movie character was this, like, super billionaire who didn't give a fuck.

Duncan Trussell 6:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:04 Like, but he was, like, super fucking smart-

Duncan Trussell 6:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:06 ... and he was really genuinely working to save humanity.

Duncan Trussell 6:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:10 That's that guy.

Duncan Trussell 6:11 Dude, here's the thing, this is the scariest thing of all, when you realize, that guy's not gonna save anybody. He's not gonna s-

Joe Rogan 6:18 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 6:18 He's gonna make things funny. And he, and like a lot of what he's doing is so cool. And, and if, and if he buys Twitter, it's gonna be one of the funniest things ever.

Joe Rogan 6:27 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 6:27 And it's-... it helps me understand why it would be awesome to be a billionaire, 'cause finally I would think, "Okay, if I was a billionaire, I would be trolling so hard all the time with all this money. I would buy fake commercials-"

Joe Rogan 6:43 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 6:43 "... for products that seem vaguely real, put 'em all-"

Joe Rogan 6:46 You would be the best billionaire ever.

Duncan Trussell 6:47 It would be so fun.

Joe Rogan 6:48 (laughs) Just, it would all be like your ads on your podcast.

Duncan Trussell 6:51 Yeah, exactly. I would do all, I would-

Joe Rogan 6:53 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 6:53 ... I would have an entire department just dedicated to putting chaos into the world for fun.

Joe Rogan 6:59 Can I stop you right here and just tell you, you, I admire your commercials so much.

Duncan Trussell 7:03 Ah, thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 7:04 You have the best commercials in all of podcasting by far.

Duncan Trussell 7:07 Thank you. Thanks.

Joe Rogan 7:07 They're funny. They're, and they're ridiculous, and they're creative, and like-

Duncan Trussell 7:11 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 7:11 ... I always feel bad that I just do a regular commercial after I listen to yours.

Duncan Trussell 7:15 You do reg- you sh- it's s- like, to me-

Joe Rogan 7:17 Too much work.

Duncan Trussell 7:18 ... it's fu-

Joe Rogan 7:18 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 7:18 It is a lot of work, but it's funny that you get to advertise for... To me-

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 7:23 ... it's so funny to imagine that any company is letting me advertise for them.

Joe Rogan 7:28 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 7:29 The, the, and something in that makes me feel gleeful when I'm doing it. And it's cool that most of them are cool with it. It's the only one I get in trouble on.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Well, the way you're doing it is so fun. It's so fun. It's like clearly just fun.

Duncan Trussell 7:40 Yeah, and I'm-

Joe Rogan 7:40 Isn't this delicious? It's orange, chocolate.

Duncan Trussell 7:42 This is so good, man.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Damn, this is a good one.

Duncan Trussell 7:44 So good. But you know, man, like, Musk, like, he's finally doing the thing, if I were a billionaire, for sure, it's like, "Oh, I'll just buy Twitter. Can I buy Twitter? Let's see what happens." He doesn't care.

Joe Rogan 7:57 I think he does care.

Duncan Trussell 7:59 You think he cares?

Joe Rogan 8:00 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 8:00 I can't tell.

Joe Rogan 8:00 No, he does, genuinely. He's concerned about censorship.

Duncan Trussell 8:04 Freedom of speech.

Joe Rogan 8:05 Yes. He's very... He said, "Freedom of speech is someone you don't like..." Excuse me, "Freedom of speech is someone you don't like saying something you don't wanna hear." He goes, "They have to have that right." And he's like-

Duncan Trussell 8:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:16 "... it's essential to a democracy."

Duncan Trussell 8:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:18 And most people objectively agree. The problem is he gets scared because they see how, like, mobs of people can move in a very negative direction, right? I think people... Uh, uh, there's a real concern. Like, I am in no way supporting censorship, clearly, right? Absolutely the opposite. But I understand why people are concerned about large groups of people being really shitty, and, and-

Duncan Trussell 8:46 Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 8:46 ... and getting on the social media platforms that they've done, they've done this, um, campaign over the last few years to, like, silence certain voices, stop aggressive people, stop people who are being shitty to people. Get... And-

Duncan Trussell 9:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:01 ... isn't... Some of, some of that is good, right?

Duncan Trussell 9:03 Sure.

Joe Rogan 9:04 Like, dox, stop doxing, stop people who are threatening people, stop people who are harassing people.

Duncan Trussell 9:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:08 But it's like, where does it end, and how do you know? You don't. That's where it g- that's where it's fucking weird, 'cause if you just let wild free speech, like, w- there's gonna be a bu- like, there's a bunch of people on, like, 4Chan and those kinda places-

Duncan Trussell 9:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:24 ... and they're saying stuff just for fun.

Duncan Trussell 9:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:26 Because nobody knows who they are, and they can just say it-

Duncan Trussell 9:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:29 ... and they don't fucking mean it.

Duncan Trussell 9:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:31 They're saying it 'cause it's a crazy thing to say if you're at work in a job you hate, sitting in your cubicle, and you decide to make a frog with a Nazi outfit on. And it doesn't mean you're a real Nazi, and it doesn't mean you-

Duncan Trussell 9:43 Isn't the word-

Joe Rogan 9:43 ... you hate anyone.

Duncan Trussell 9:44 It's edgelording.

Joe Rogan 9:45 Edgelording.

Duncan Trussell 9:45 It's an edgelord.

Joe Rogan 9:47 Those people are, they're confined to small corners of the internet right now.

Duncan Trussell 9:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:55 And if, if you (laughs) just let them loose (laughs) , if you let the frog people loose-

Duncan Trussell 10:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Like, you remember the frog people during the Trump ca- the Trump campaign?

Duncan Trussell 10:05 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 10:05 They took over the frog. The frog guy, the guy who made a frog podcast-

Duncan Trussell 10:08 I had him on my podca-

Joe Rogan 10:08 ... was so sad.

Duncan Trussell 10:09 I had him on my podcast. He's very cool.

Joe Rogan 10:11 What did he say?

Duncan Trussell 10:13 Just what you're s- what the fuck? The frog was never a Nazi. The frog was, like, funny and sweet.

Joe Rogan 10:17 Was he upset they took his frog?

Duncan Trussell 10:19 Yeah, it was just, he went, it w- I think it's a, would be a little bit like the first person who'd had the Hitler mustache.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 10:26 You know what I mean? Like, imagine, and then Hitler sees it, and he's like, "God, that's fucking cool. I'm gonna start having a mustache like that." And you're like, "No!" It's like that. But also, you know, I don't, I, I don't know how many people know that, like, the, they discovered an Egyptian god, and again, this could all be trolling, Kak, the god of chaos, who happens to be a frog. So-

Joe Rogan 10:47 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 10:47 ... what was, what, so within that, whatever that was, uh, an actual, like, chaos magic was being, they were calling it meme magic or whatever, but they were all d- they were, like, actively doing chaos magic, and, uh, a lot of their rituals seemed to have worked to some degree. So yeah, I know what you mean, like, the, the, the, the que- like, the question is in a world where we don't even know how many of these people are human who are writing shit-

Joe Rogan 11:16 Right.

Duncan Trussell 11:17 ... on Twitter or wherever-

Joe Rogan 11:18 Right.

Duncan Trussell 11:18 ... like GPT, what is it, 3 or 2, the AI that, like, completely imitates human beings. Like, have you ever gone to the...

Joe Rogan 11:27 Explain how that works? It's a, it's-

Duncan Trussell 11:28 I, it's a neural network that can be programmed to different personalities, that can imitate human speech well enough that they can leave messages, and you don't know for sure if it's a human or not.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 11:42 So if you go to, on Reddit, there's a subreddit which is the AI bots arguing with each other-

Joe Rogan 11:47 Oh, my God.

Duncan Trussell 11:48 ... on the Reddit. And, like, once I left that up, and I remember I was just reading it thinking I was on the front page of Reddit-

Joe Rogan 11:55 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 11:55 ... and getting really engaged-

Joe Rogan 11:57 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 11:57 ... in the arguments these bots were having with each other. It's that convincing. So the, the freedom of speech thing runs into, okay, of course, it's like a no-brainer humanist ideal, humans should be able to say whatever they want. This is, this is, like, the most important way, that we, we must have some kind of debate or discourse where one person is allowed to be a complete asshole.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:20 And not because we want assholes, but because hopefully in the discussion, some bit of truth will sink down into their consciousness and they will grow as a person. That, I think that's what the roots of-

Joe Rogan 12:31 That's the hope.

Duncan Trussell 12:32 That's the hope. But what is, what if the person is a robot, uh, is an AI device that is being...... made to have certain personalities that represent demographics that you're trying to manipulate as a corporation or a state, or whatever. At that point-

Joe Rogan 12:51 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 12:51 ... w- is it freedom of spee- uh, are bots allowed to have freedom of speech? This is-

Joe Rogan 12:55 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:55 ... this is the, uh, what I, one of the things Musk was saying he might do with Twitter, which I think is brilliant, m- anyone can get the stupid blue check mark. You pay for it, and you have to verify yourself so that, like, you're, we know you're a real person.

Joe Rogan 13:08 Right.

Duncan Trussell 13:09 Meaning, that it would be too expensive for the bot swarms to function. It would b- it would go from being, e- like, if you have a blue check mark, whatever, you're something or whatever, to, if you don't have a blue check mark, you're probably a bot. And so then, we eliminate-

Joe Rogan 13:23 (slaps desk)

Duncan Trussell 13:23 ... all the AI, all the fucking state-sponsored shills, all the people who've spent years and years and years building these fake identities online. Like, they're like, uh, farming personalities, uh, 'cause, you know, in the old days, somebody tweets some shit, and you're like, "What the fuck is that?" And you go and look at their account, and it's like three days old, so it has less credibility. But they've been growing these personalities for years, so you go and look at their tweets, and it kinda looks like a person, mixed in with their interminable tweets about some political issue. Like, only an insane person would, every three minutes, tweeting something, or like, "Went to the pool with Dairy today," you know what I mean, and some weird distant picture of a pool, so it kinda seems like a real person. Anyway, the point is, the freedom of speech issue is, uh, right now, we're running into the problem of brand new technologies, that aren't even human, that are being designed to influence public discourse in a way that's gonna push the needle towards whatever it is.

Joe Rogan 14:29 Right.

Duncan Trussell 14:29 Y- whatever your laws or corporation wants, whatever some s- the state wants.

Joe Rogan 14:34 And we know for sure they're being implemented that way?

Duncan Trussell 14:36 Fuck yeah. These bot swarms, they found what, they found a, in the Ukraine, they found, like, one of these, like, creepy shells-

Joe Rogan 14:45 Like a lab.

Duncan Trussell 14:45 Sh- uh, phones. It's just phones, shit tons of phones.

Joe Rogan 14:47 Oh, I've seen those. But I didn't know they were running an AI. I thought, like, people were manually typing in messages, 'cause I know they were doing that first.

Duncan Trussell 14:55 I think both.

Joe Rogan 14:56 Right?

Duncan Trussell 14:56 Both it- I mean, both things are happening.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 14:58 Like, e- you know, it's a PR firm, basically.

Joe Rogan 15:03 Right.

Duncan Trussell 15:03 You know, politicians have publicists too.

Joe Rogan 15:05 Isn't it wild, though, that that's the best way to defeat America, is to get people separate from each other, arguing with t- with each other and lose all faith in the democratic process?

Duncan Trussell 15:17 Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 15:18 All faith in democracy. Lose all faith.

Duncan Trussell 15:20 Powerful weapon, man. It's like an a-

Joe Rogan 15:21 It's amazing.

Duncan Trussell 15:22 We dropped an atom bomb multiple times on cities filled with people. United States did that. Everyone knows that. So our karma, hoo, we've got some fucked up karma, man.

Joe Rogan 15:36 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 15:36 You know what I mean? So-

Joe Rogan 15:38 Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 15:38 ... so, like the, so-

Joe Rogan 15:39 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 15:39 ... the problem with these atom bombs, biggest problem with the atom bomb, is, I mean, aside from the fact that it kills random people and is, i- is horrible, it irradiates them. I- it irradiates the ground, the buildings. So you, so there's no plundering to be had. If you, you, traditional war, you plunder, whether you-

Joe Rogan 15:56 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:56 ... however you want to make it look. You're plundering. If I nuke you, I can no longer plunder. So, this is why biological weapons popped, like, are- are desirable, 'cause then it burns out the biome in the area. Wait a little bit, and then you can go plunder. But even better than that, get into the fucking minds of the people in the country that you want to invade, and then just change their minds so that the country shifts into what you wanted that country to be. Now you didn't even have to sh- do anything, except they're yours. They're believing in you, and then in that, the country starts falling apart. The CIA, by the way, this is one of the things they do. They go into other countries. They cause, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 16:41 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 16:41 ... disturbances, and then it collapses. I mean, it's a classic weapon of war. So anyway, yeah, I v- obviously, we might be, the entire United States and probably other countries might currently be irradiated, not by like, obviously radiation, but by bad data created by artificial intelligence, bots that have been programmed to swarm social media and give the impression that there was some, like, something happening that wasn't even happening at all.

Joe Rogan 17:09 You know why- when I get the most suspicious that someone's a bot?

Duncan Trussell 17:13 When?

Joe Rogan 17:13 When they have an American flag next to their name.

Duncan Trussell 17:16 Oh, yeah. That's a bot.

Joe Rogan 17:17 I automatically assume that's a bot.

Duncan Trussell 17:20 Flag bots. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 I see that and I go, "Oh, they're, they're one of those fake, like-

Duncan Trussell 17:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:24 ... you know, God-before-country people."

Duncan Trussell 17:27 That's right.

Joe Rogan 17:27 You know? (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 17:28 It's so fucking weird, Joe. It's so fucking w-

Joe Rogan 17:31 There must be so many of them.

Duncan Trussell 17:33 There's so m- I mean-

Joe Rogan 17:34 And they're, like, forming arguments out there.

Duncan Trussell 17:36 Dude, they, okay, imagine 100 years ago, sitting in a town hall. There's a debate going on, a lively debate about some new law you want to impose, and somebody stands up and he's like, "I'm all for the law!" And then, you know, just starts malfunctioning, (laughs) smoking or, it's- it's a fucking robot. We've been invaded by robots. This would be a horror movie.

Joe Rogan 18:02 It would be a horror movie.

Duncan Trussell 18:03 But that's what's happening now.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Yes, it's just they're doing it through texts.

Duncan Trussell 18:08 Yeah, they're doing it through, a- and- and that's way more effective anyway.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Yeah. They're getting in your- you're addicted to your phone. They're getting to you through your phone, and you're getting all these hot takes-

Duncan Trussell 18:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:18 ... that are designed to sow the seeds of- of- of anger, and distrust, and-

Duncan Trussell 18:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:26 ... the- the tribalism between the two sides. It's never been stronger. When I was a kid, like, your neighbor could be republican, this guy could be a democrat.

Duncan Trussell 18:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:34 Nobody cared. They, like-

Duncan Trussell 18:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:35 ... they'd mock you about this. You'd mock them about that, and-

Duncan Trussell 18:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:38 ... everybody, you could be friends. You could be friends with people who were right wing. Now, it's like they're the enemy.

Duncan Trussell 18:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:43 It's very bizarre.

Duncan Trussell 18:45 Yeah, that's true, man.

Joe Rogan 18:46 Very bizarre.

Duncan Trussell 18:47 It's very fucking bizarre. I mean, yeah, the- the-... I rem- I mean, I grew up, I grew up with Rep- and Re- uh, my dad was a Republican, you know, so I grew up in that. I grew up having to (laughs) be friends with, like, Republicans or right-wingers-

Joe Rogan 19:02 Right.

Duncan Trussell 19:02 ... who knew most of my takes on things, but they're very polite.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 19:06 There was none of this bullshit of, like, "Wait, what do you think? Why do you think that?" It was usually, like, considered real- like, we grew up in the South, so it was considered incredibly impolite to bring up, like, politics, to-

Joe Rogan 19:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 19:17 ... any of that stuff. You sort of just kept it to yourself.

Joe Rogan 19:20 I've had some people that- get aggressive with their opinions about stuff, especially because I was a Bernie Sanders supporter. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 19:28 You got a lotta heat for that.

Joe Rogan 19:29 A lotta people thought that was really stupid. But it's, like, the- to, uh, to be that connected to your idea that you're gonna be, like, angry, talking to someone who has a different idea.

Duncan Trussell 19:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:41 Just, like, why- this is not a good way to do this. Like, don't get mad that someone thought that maybe some of Bernie Sanders' ideas weren't the worst ideas.

Duncan Trussell 19:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Maybe it- maybe it would be interesting having someone like that running things.

Duncan Trussell 19:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:53 What would it be like? We've never had anything like that before. He s- he doesn't seem like a greedy guy who's gonna make horrible deals that are gonna damage the environment.

Duncan Trussell 20:02 No.

Joe Rogan 20:02 He seems like he's got a lot of positives.

Duncan Trussell 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:05 You know?

Duncan Trussell 20:05 What was it he did- what- wait. Why don't people like it? Why don't-

Joe Rogan 20:10 Because he's a democratic socialist, and, uh, it's not, like, completely socialism. It's, like, a mixture of socialism and, I- I guess, I- I guess, some capitalism. I mean, someone'd have to explain it better. But essentially, he thinks that there should be a bunch of things that we pay into with, uh-

Duncan Trussell 20:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:32 ... our tax money and, uh, a lot of those things would help benefit the greater good of the country, like-

Duncan Trussell 20:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:39 ... free education.

Duncan Trussell 20:40 Clean water.

Joe Rogan 20:40 Like, absolving student debt, you know, like raising the minimum wage. Like, there's a bunch- he's- he's- he was pitching a bunch of different things-

Duncan Trussell 20:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:50 ... that got people super uncomfortable. They're like, "This guy's not trying to make money. Like, this guy's gonna fuck this up for us."

Duncan Trussell 20:57 That's right. They-

Joe Rogan 20:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 20:58 Well, I mean, look, when our politicians are making so much dough-

Joe Rogan 21:02 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 21:02 ... you know, then they don't want-

Joe Rogan 21:04 It's-

Duncan Trussell 21:04 ... they don't wanna pay into those taxes.

Joe Rogan 21:06 It's a lotta money that they- they pay a lotta money to politicians for speeches. They pay a lotta money to politicians for books. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to make a lotta money. Like, God bless you. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it's, like, it's- it's a business, and you can influence people with that business.

Duncan Trussell 21:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Like, you can influence the way people think about things. You can influence- and you could hire a- a team of robots-

Duncan Trussell 21:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:33 ... to go swarm your idea-

Duncan Trussell 21:35 That's right.

Joe Rogan 21:35 ... through the internet.

Duncan Trussell 21:35 That's right.

Joe Rogan 21:36 And you can make it seem like everybody who opposes this idea is racist, or everybody who opposes this idea is sexist-

Duncan Trussell 21:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:43 ... or transphobic, or this or that. But all you're doing is stirring up shit, and you don't care how it gets stirred up, 'cause shit begets shit.

Duncan Trussell 21:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:51 And as- soon as you get some shit stirred up-

Duncan Trussell 21:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:53 ... and people slinging it around, well, their kids are gonna learn how to throw some shit too.

Duncan Trussell 21:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:56 And then the next generation's gonna be a shit-tosser as well.

Duncan Trussell 21:59 That's right.

Joe Rogan 22:00 And then it's gonna be a normal thing-

Duncan Trussell 22:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:02 ... to, like, be in heated arguments with people all the time.

Duncan Trussell 22:05 Online, not in real life.

Joe Rogan 22:05 And never believe anything. It's a- imagine if we found out that a lot of mainstream news was run by Russia and that these little, tiny, subtle lies (laughs) that they say-

Duncan Trussell 22:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:16 ... every now and then to make you lose your faith in the veracity of the fucking news source that you're getting.

Duncan Trussell 22:23 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 22:23 Imagine if those-

Duncan Trussell 22:24 Dude, of course it is dope.

Joe Rogan 22:25 ... was- is all Chinese-funded.

Duncan Trussell 22:27 Or, well, I mean, it's like-

Joe Rogan 22:28 No.

Duncan Trussell 22:28 ... okay, it's the- it's not so... I think one of the problems is people imagine it to be a little more cut and dry than it is. I think it's a little more subtle than the- than, like, just getting paid off. But what- what we do know, obviously, there is an incredible imbalance when it comes to wealth on the planet. We've got fucking oligarchs. Like, you- when you hear about the shit that they're confiscating from these people-

Joe Rogan 22:54 Wild.

Duncan Trussell 22:55 50 houses! 5 billion-

Joe Rogan 22:58 $750 million yachts being confiscated.

Duncan Trussell 23:00 Yeah, yeah. So, this imbalance in- in- in wealth is so extreme that it's created a incredible greed or, in some people, and just a basic need to have food and shelter, whatever. But so- but when you have that much money, it is n- I imagine it's fairly easy to, in a very subtle way, start doing in- psyops for whatever it is. I mean-

Joe Rogan 23:25 Right.

Duncan Trussell 23:25 ... and in- in those psyops campaigns, the first thing you're gonna wanna go for is people who are any kind of mouthpiece in the world, like Tucker Carlson, who the Russian press was, like, applauding for his reporting and stuff. So it- you know, people are like, "Shit, he's paid off by the Russians." Now, is he? I doubt it, but I- there- I wouldn't be surprised if people who used to call themselves the KGB and mastered, mastered distorting reality, I wouldn't be surprised if some way, shape, or form, they were puppeteering him a little bit, just trying to get to him a little bit. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 24:05 How do you think- how- how does one do that? Like, tell- do it in your best Russian accent.

Duncan Trussell 24:08 I can't do a Russian accent!

Joe Rogan 24:10 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 24:10 I don't mean Russian. I mean, sh- whatever. Like, what- whatever-

Joe Rogan 24:13 Any- any country.

Duncan Trussell 24:13 So, it's like this. H- here's how you do it.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Okay.

Duncan Trussell 24:15 This is the way you fucking do it. It happened to me, 'cause once, when Ted Cruz was running against, what's his name? The guy who wanted to legalize weed. Uh, people didn't like him. The Democrat guy.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Beto.

Duncan Trussell 24:27 Beto O'Rourke!

Joe Rogan 24:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 24:28 Okay.

Joe Rogan 24:29 People didn't like him. I was-

Duncan Trussell 24:30 Okay.

Joe Rogan 24:30 ... like, "Ha."

Duncan Trussell 24:31 So, I retweeted Beto O'Rourke giving some speech. I liked him. He wants to legalize weed.

Joe Rogan 24:37 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 24:37 You know what I mean? Legalize weed! It's great!

Joe Rogan 24:39 Biden was supposed to do that.

Duncan Trussell 24:40 Yeah, uh, well, yeah. But...Right after I retweeted him, all of a sudden, I start getting messages from people using the word... Fuck, goddamn it, now I can't remember the word. Uh, wi- a demagogue! Demagogue! So all of a sudden, I'm getting tweets from random people being like, "Do you really wanna retweet a demagogue?" I can't even, I don't know if it's "gog" or "gog."

Joe Rogan 25:03 I think it, I think it's "gog." I only read it.

Duncan Trussell 25:04 A demigo- I can't-

Joe Rogan 25:04 I don't think I've ever read it.

Duncan Trussell 25:05 I, uh, exactly! It's a, and I w- But I remember thinking, "That's a cool fucking word," the first time someone sent that to me.

Joe Rogan 25:10 (laughs) Yeah, it is a cool word.

Duncan Trussell 25:11 Then the next (laughs) thing-

Joe Rogan 25:12 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 25:12 Yeah, demagogue! (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:13 Demagogue sounds amazing.

Duncan Trussell 25:15 Sounds awesome! But-

Joe Rogan 25:16 Sounds like something from Stranger Things.

Duncan Trussell 25:17 I get exactly! A gorgon or-

Joe Rogan 25:19 Yeah, a demagogue.

Duncan Trussell 25:20 So I-

Joe Rogan 25:21 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 25:21 ... I get another demagogue, and then another demagogue message, and then I'm like, "Oh my God. These are people working at a cubicle-"

Joe Rogan 25:29 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 25:29 "... who have been told to send tweets at people who say anything positive about Beto O'Rourke." But one of them said, "Duncan, I, I really am sorry about what happened to your mom, but I r- It's upsetting to me to see someone retweeting a demagogue." And that's when I freaked out 'cause it's like, wait a minute. I went to her account. This is like a middle-aged, right-wing Republican lady, American flags all over her fucking account.

Joe Rogan 25:56 Real person?

Duncan Trussell 25:56 Re- Acting like a real person, but no one who would really be listening to my podcast enough to know about my mom dying and certainly would not be like, sticking up for Ted Cruz randomly on the internet. So, that's when I realized, "Oh, shit. If you have a certain number of followers, they've got a little file on you somewhere."

Joe Rogan 26:15 Mm, hey.

Duncan Trussell 26:15 And that little, that little file goes into, informs their tweets at you.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Or, it could just be some crazy Republican lady who likes you.

Duncan Trussell 26:24 I, but she said "demagogue."

Joe Rogan 26:25 Right, but, but, but-

Duncan Trussell 26:26 After three people said it.

Joe Rogan 26:27 But a lot of people have probably been saying it, and people automatically pick up-

Duncan Trussell 26:31 Hm.

Joe Rogan 26:31 ... on things that people say.

Duncan Trussell 26:32 Sure.

Joe Rogan 26:32 And they just repeat 'em. This is just the simplest exp- explanation, without like some grand conspiracy-

Duncan Trussell 26:37 I, I think we a- we should assume that's probable.

Joe Rogan 26:39 ... to spy up on Duncan Trussell. I would-

Duncan Trussell 26:40 That's probable?

Joe Rogan 26:41 I would say that it was probable.

Duncan Trussell 26:42 Okay, so... And again, I don't wanna seem like I have such hubris to even imagine that. But-

Joe Rogan 26:47 Well, oh, there's definitely a file on you.

Duncan Trussell 26:49 Y- yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:49 But that lady?

Duncan Trussell 26:50 What, where's the file?

Joe Rogan 26:51 There's crazy people out there, bro. There's-

Duncan Trussell 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:53 There's a lot of those like Austin rednecks. They're like-

Duncan Trussell 26:56 I, I'm just saying-

Joe Rogan 26:56 You know what I mean?

Duncan Trussell 26:56 ... if you wanna get to somebody, the way you do it is in a really subtle way over time and have it happening from a lot of different angles-

Joe Rogan 27:06 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 27:06 ... expressing different versions of the same idea that-

Joe Rogan 27:10 Got it.

Duncan Trussell 27:10 ... helps push the needle. And that's how you would do it. So the person wouldn't really recognize that a kind of propaganda beam had, is being blasted at them through their social medias and it's being, uh, i- it's coordinated, organized, and designed not to do anything more than get, shift their opinion a little bit.

Joe Rogan 27:28 Right.

Duncan Trussell 27:28 Not even that much.

Joe Rogan 27:29 And just get 'em arguing about stuff.

Duncan Trussell 27:31 Exactly!

Joe Rogan 27:31 And then, the, the thing about arguing is people rarely come to a resolution where they're both happy. You generally speaking-

Duncan Trussell 27:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:39 ... one person wins, the other person feels bad, one person-

Duncan Trussell 27:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:42 ... thinks that person's a dick for, you know, w- harping on 'em about something.

Duncan Trussell 27:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 It's very rare that someone goes, "Goddamn it. I was, I was wrong, and he was right. And you know, I need to apologize to him-"

Duncan Trussell 27:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:52 "... I need to figure this out." That's a rare person. It's great when people can do that-

Duncan Trussell 27:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:56 But it's a rare person who has a disagreement with someone and changes their mind.

Duncan Trussell 28:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:01 We're fucking stubborn, and we, we, instead of really trying to figure out what's right and what's wrong, most the time, we're trying to, we're trying to win an argument. We're trying to win with better sentences-

Duncan Trussell 28:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:12 ... and better facts-

Duncan Trussell 28:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:14 ... and we're trying to look smarter. That's what we're trying to do.

Duncan Trussell 28:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:16 And when, when people just argue, they start arguing about other shit. If you beat someone with some argument, you wanna argue with 'em about other stuff. There's this one guy at work, and, uh, he always wanted to argue about stuff. Wasn't aggressive, but it was always-

Duncan Trussell 28:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:32 It was annoying! And one time I would go, "Dude, every time we talk, you just wanna argue."

Duncan Trussell 28:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:37 I go, "I don't, we can just talk." Like-

Duncan Trussell 28:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:39 "... we don't, we don't have to argue about stuff." Like, he would, he goes, "Well, I like to see you challenged." I go-

Duncan Trussell 28:43 What?

Joe Rogan 28:43 ... "Look, come on, man. We're just at work." Like-

Duncan Trussell 28:46 He said what?

Joe Rogan 28:46 "I like to see you challenged." He's just-

Duncan Trussell 28:49 What does he mean by that?

Joe Rogan 28:50 He's essentially saying he likes to argue, and he wanted me to argue with him. Like peop- some people enjoy arguing, and they're not even doing it in a way that's mean.

Duncan Trussell 29:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:01 They're just, they just wanna disagree.

Duncan Trussell 29:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:04 They just wanna see, "Well, someone could look at it from this perspective." I'm like, "Oh my God."

Duncan Trussell 29:07 I hate that.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Bro. Oh my God. You know?

Duncan Trussell 29:09 Everything's everything.

Joe Rogan 29:10 We're talking about dairy.

Duncan Trussell 29:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:12 You know? It's like, I don't, I can't talk about... With, not everything. Not everything.

Duncan Trussell 29:15 Yeah. I know man. That's, that, but w- I, I think that is one of the problems is that-

Joe Rogan 29:20 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:21 ... well, you know, reality can be looked at from a million different angles, and-

Joe Rogan 29:26 And it's hard for us to do that.

Duncan Trussell 29:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:28 It's h- It's hard for us to take into consideration someone else's perspective.

Duncan Trussell 29:32 Oh my God. It's-

Joe Rogan 29:32 Very hard.

Duncan Trussell 29:33 You, yeah, well, it's considered, I mean, it's considered off limits, you know? Like, you know what I mean? Like, try to put yourself in Jeffrey Dahmer's shoes. You ever do that?

Joe Rogan 29:41 Wow, Jesus Christ.

Duncan Trussell 29:42 Well, that's what I'm say- but that's how-

Joe Rogan 29:43 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:43 That to catch people like that, they have to become them.

Joe Rogan 29:46 Oh my God.

Duncan Trussell 29:47 But you ever think about that? Like how d- how far away from being Jeffrey Dahmer was that? Like how many bad turns or weird moments-

Joe Rogan 29:55 Do you think that a guy like that... 'Cause he h- he was one of the rare ones that had like a normal family life, right?

Duncan Trussell 30:02 Well, yeah. It seems like he had a, like his parents seemed just kind of like normal.

Joe Rogan 30:06 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:07 That was a weird one. Like most the time there's like abuse-

Duncan Trussell 30:11 Abuse.

Joe Rogan 30:11 ... and foster care or something-

Duncan Trussell 30:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:13 ... some, some great hurt that's put on them.

Duncan Trussell 30:15 Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's like the h- like, to me, this thing you're talking about-

Joe Rogan 30:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 30:23 ... is we're gonna get better at it as a species. And what that is, is putting away the aggression. That's normal. Aggression happens when animals feel confronted, so we s- we're, we still have that. So you feel confronted in any way, even if it's a small disagreement, some weird animal part of you starts hissing.

Joe Rogan 30:45 Hm.

Duncan Trussell 30:45 And i-... some people listen to that, and then they're like, "Fuck!" And then they get weird when they're having the, a debate with somebody because the animal is hissing through whatever they're saying. So if you can put that away, and then you look at the person and recognize, "This is just me after a bunch of weird turns. I would have been this person."

Joe Rogan 31:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 31:05 And then somewhere in there, you can really have, like, an actual chat with a person because at least you're, y- if, if that creature ins-, if the thing inside of them starts hissing, and then that makes the thing inside of you start hissing, then you're basically just having a seizure or something (laughs) disguised as a conversation. You're just barking.

Joe Rogan 31:24 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 31:24 It's like when you walk by a yard and your dogs start screaming at each other. You know, I, I don't think that the dogs are like... I think there's just, they don't, I think it's like when a dog barks, it's like when we sneeze. Like, they can't control it. All of a sudden, it's just like, "Ar, ar, ar," and the other one's barking. I'm just saying, if we are debating with all this aggression, I don't even know if we're human at that moment. I, I think we're just hissing at each other and pretending what we're saying has some kind of importance in the world. I mean, it would probably be healthier to just, like, instead of, uh, you know, f- angrily fighting with somebody, right?

Joe Rogan 32:02 Right, 'cause sometimes when people are talking, they're not really saying anything anyway. They're just barking at each other.

Duncan Trussell 32:08 Exactly. Just dogs yapping at each other online, the most depressing thing ever.

Joe Rogan 32:14 Imagine if everyone alive is, at their essence, the exact same thing, just interacting with the rest of the universe through different biological filters.

Duncan Trussell 32:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:27 But, like, everyone's the exact same thing, whether you're born in China, whether you're born-

Duncan Trussell 32:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:35 ... in Pittsburgh, doesn't matter.

Duncan Trussell 32:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:37 It's just, you're going through different biological filters and different life experiences-

Duncan Trussell 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:43 ... to interact with the universe, but you, the sa- What makes you makes me. It's the same thing. I'm just going through this body, you're going through that body. I'm going through this path, you're going through that path.

Duncan Trussell 32:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:54 It's the same thing at the core, whether it's male or female, whether it's boy or girl or gay or straight or-

Duncan Trussell 33:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:01 ... it doesn't matter. It's the same thing.

Duncan Trussell 33:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:04 It's the biological filter of being a different human being with a different life experience in a different part of the world.

Duncan Trussell 33:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 That's what's different.

Duncan Trussell 33:10 That's it.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Imagine, imagine how wild the world would be if we could really lock onto that idea.

Duncan Trussell 33:16 It'd be a Christian world, Joe.

Joe Rogan 33:18 That's a Christian idea, right?

Duncan Trussell 33:19 Love your neighbor as yourself.

Joe Rogan 33:21 Yeah, exactly.

Duncan Trussell 33:22 And, but I, I think that people, when they hear that, they don't realize how radical a statement that is, 'cause it's saying, "No, no, no, that's you."

Joe Rogan 33:30 "That's you."

Duncan Trussell 33:31 "That's you."

Joe Rogan 33:31 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 33:32 "That's you, that's you, that's you." And then, and then so th- at that point, you have to s- You really probably wanna help other people more, 'cause in the way, 'cause we're all kinda helping ourselves all the time, you know? Like-

Joe Rogan 33:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 33:45 ... so then if you really recognize someone as that's just you, it fucks up everything, man. How are you gonna do war? How-

Joe Rogan 33:51 Right, if you're, it's i- if that's you. How are you gonna drop a nuclear bomb on 500,000 yous?

Duncan Trussell 33:56 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 33:57 Right.

Duncan Trussell 33:57 How are you gonna do anything, like, aggressive to people around you that are just versions of you? You gr-, it's, it fucks up the whole... It's a pr-, it's a problem if you wanna live in a world of conflict.

Joe Rogan 34:09 Well, if we are doing what it seems we're doing, which is like the human race is becoming more and more technologically integrated with each other-

Duncan Trussell 34:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 ... I wonder if what's gonna happen with us in the future is similar to what happened with the internet. Because if the powers that be that turned on the internet and made it public for the whole world, if they had any fucking idea what a shakeup this would be-

Duncan Trussell 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 ... to all things, all things, the education system, athletics, the-

Duncan Trussell 34:41 Everything.

Joe Rogan 34:42 ... culture, music, everything changes.

Duncan Trussell 34:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:46 Free speech, unprecedented ability to express yourself-

Duncan Trussell 34:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:50 ... about things.

Duncan Trussell 34:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:51 This is, uh, a, I think they would have never let that genie out of the bottle.

Duncan Trussell 34:54 No.

Joe Rogan 34:55 We would have been stuck in the fucking stone ages, if all the world governments had a heads up on what this was gonna be d-

Duncan Trussell 35:01 (laughs) Yes.

Joe Rogan 35:01 They'd be like, "No fucking cellphones."

Duncan Trussell 35:02 "What do you mean easy? Rotary phones."

Joe Rogan 35:04 "No fucking cellphones."

Duncan Trussell 35:05 Yeah, don't give them the phones.

Joe Rogan 35:06 They'd be like, "No, that's giving everybody cancer." They would make a cancer campaign, and everybody'd talk about brain cancer, just, "Brain cancer."

Duncan Trussell 35:12 I think that probably if that conversation happened, there would be another person who's like, "Actually, I think we can hypnotize them through the rectangles-

Joe Rogan 35:22 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 35:22 ... so that we get them to do more stuff that we want."

Joe Rogan 35:25 Problem is, there's no, no them. There's no them. Hypnotize them? You're in it too, bitch. You're addicted to your goddamn phone too.

Duncan Trussell 35:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:32 And the people that are programming these fucking apps are addicted to their phones.

Duncan Trussell 35:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:37 The people that are creating these social media apps that have everybody addicted-

Duncan Trussell 35:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:40 ... are also addicted to their phones.

Duncan Trussell 35:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:43 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 35:43 It's fascinating, man. I-

Joe Rogan 35:44 Oh, it's wild.

Duncan Trussell 35:46 I think it's, this is the... I, okay, so this is an idea that I had the other day, freaked me out a little bit. Uh, the, okay, I was just thinking about those... And I'm, I know we've talked about these fucking zombie ants so many times on this podcast, but that fungus, it infects the ants, takes over their brains.

Joe Rogan 36:06 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 36:06 Okay. So, like, I was just, I just had this scary thought of like, "Oh my God. That's what, that's what technology is." It, it's just some kind of parasitic alien spirit that has descended on the planet, is making us make-

Joe Rogan 36:21 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 36:21 ... it increasingly powerful-

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 36:24 ... and with the intent eventually of reducing us to nothing, uh, other than, like, some kind of herd. And then, uh, you, in the sense that it's like the... We really are, via our addiction to these things, we are just, like, summoning an AI that is gonna be way better than us at everything. Matter of time, matter of time.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Instantaneously.

Duncan Trussell 36:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:50 And it's one of the things that Elon's warned us all against. He's like, "It's scarier than anything else that we have in development right now."

Duncan Trussell 36:57 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 36:57 It could be a life form, man. And it seems like it is. It seems like we slept on it, and we only thought that life forms were things that biologically grew.

Duncan Trussell 37:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:08 Like, they grew with water or they grew with photosynthesis.

Duncan Trussell 37:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:11 You know? We, we, we only thought they ate things, and that's how they, they shit and they got bigger.

Duncan Trussell 37:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:17 We didn't think of technology as being this, like, ever-improving thing that's directly connected to materialism-

Duncan Trussell 37:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 ... which is one of our most common obsessions. Like, human beings, like, super common to be obsessed with materials.

Duncan Trussell 37:32 Matter.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 37:33 Just shit.

Joe Rogan 37:34 Collecting stamps, like-

Duncan Trussell 37:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:37 ... that's how goofy we are. We collect things.

Duncan Trussell 37:40 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 37:41 You know?

Duncan Trussell 37:41 Yeah. We're v- very, like... Yeah. It's certainly, like... If you wanted to, like, take over a species, just look at what they're into.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 37:50 Then figure out a way to, like, get in between that and then you've got 'em.

Joe Rogan 37:54 You got 'em.

Duncan Trussell 37:55 You got 'em.

Joe Rogan 37:55 Ta-da! Da. Yeah, you got 'em.

Duncan Trussell 37:57 And we're just working on it. We're working on it-

Joe Rogan 37:59 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 37:59 ... day in and day out, just trying to make something that's smarter and better than us, and, and, and we're going to fucking... We're... It's probably already been done. I mean, that's a scary thing. Nick Bostrom, Superintelligence. It's an awesome book, but, uh, he just points out that by the time a superintelligence, if one gets created via technology, it's not like they're gonna make an announcement that it was made.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Right.

Duncan Trussell 38:23 They're gonna not say anything, and they're gonna let that superintelligence direct them. And then in that, they're gonna make decisions. They're gonna let it make big decisions, so we wouldn't even know that our planet was being harmonized by a superintelligent AI until maybe never.

Joe Rogan 38:43 Yeah, why would it let us know? I mean, it could absolutely be already be running things. It's just doing this accelerated technological shift in society-

Duncan Trussell 38:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:52 ... doing it at a pace that's tolerable.

Duncan Trussell 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:54 Like, it's inevitable, and it's just, like, forcing it along at a pace that's tolerable.

Duncan Trussell 38:59 Yeah, man. That's-

Joe Rogan 39:00 And what if it's in control of all those bot farms?

Duncan Trussell 39:02 Well, that's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 39:03 No. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 39:04 Yeah. And so-

Joe Rogan 39:04 It's so scary.

Duncan Trussell 39:04 Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it is, it is scary.

Joe Rogan 39:07 Oh, it's so scary.

Duncan Trussell 39:08 But the, the scariest thing is that people are fighting over some of the stupidest shit right now when winter is coming, when this stuff is coming, man. It's, like, really coming.

Joe Rogan 39:19 Yeah, winter is coming. Winter is coming.

Duncan Trussell 39:19 It's coming. And this is not gonna be, like, the shit we're arguing over right now. This is going to be something that is, like, so increasingly seductive that it becomes irresistible.

Joe Rogan 39:31 This is gonna be some iRobot shit, is what it's gonna be.

Duncan Trussell 39:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Like, that could be real.

Duncan Trussell 39:37 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 39:37 You know?

Duncan Trussell 39:38 I mean, that-

Joe Rogan 39:38 Ah, the Tesla bot.

Duncan Trussell 39:39 Look what fucking our friend is working on.

Joe Rogan 39:40 I don't think that's real.

Guest 39:41 Yeah, it is, next year.

Joe Rogan 39:43 Shut up, Jamie.

Guest 39:43 Production.

Joe Rogan 39:44 I told you to shut up, Jamie.

Guest 39:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:46 You're gonna ruin it all. Um, I'm getting one for sure. I'm gonna get one to teach it jujitsu.

Duncan Trussell 39:52 Great, Joe. That's just what we need.

Joe Rogan 39:54 I want a, a sparring partner.

Duncan Trussell 39:55 Strangling, strangling bots.

Joe Rogan 39:56 I want a str- a sparring partner.

Duncan Trussell 39:57 That's how it starts. Then it uploads whatever you teach it in jujitsu, to its- whatever-

Joe Rogan 40:02 What if you could trust your bot to let go when you tap? Like, that would be a pretty good bot, if a bot can know, like, exactly how hard to get you, like, in an armbar.

Duncan Trussell 40:11 Yeah. That's what the bot tells you right before-

Joe Rogan 40:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 40:14 ... it strangles you to death. It's like, "Look, I'm gonna get you so close."

Joe Rogan 40:18 "Duncan, I have to tell you a secret."

Duncan Trussell 40:21 What?

Joe Rogan 40:21 "I've been operating at only 10% of my strength-"

Duncan Trussell 40:24 Ah!

Joe Rogan 40:24 "... up until now."

Duncan Trussell 40:25 No, okay, look. Look, I'm sorry. Or, you know, you walk in on it fucking your wife. What about that?

Joe Rogan 40:30 Uh!

Duncan Trussell 40:30 Like, these bots are gonna... They're gonna disrupt society way beyond what we're seeing right now. And it's... And again, it's like there is no way to stop it. We have opened a portal. I don't know what the portal is to, but flowing out of that portal are art-... are AI personalities that have already gotten into our discourse, that are about to be animated by robots, already are animated by those creepy fucking DARPA bots that, like... They try to... They have them do these little dances to calm us down about them, and it just makes them seem more sinister. You know what I'm talking about?

Joe Rogan 41:06 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 41:07 They, they... Like, how does that... How do we think that's gonna work out? Like, how do you think having a superfast dog creature that-

Joe Rogan 41:18 Shoots guns.

Duncan Trussell 41:19 ... or poisoned darts or-

Joe Rogan 41:21 Ugh!

Duncan Trussell 41:21 ... some stroboscopic light or releases some pheromone or whatever it does that, like, when you get around it to fight it, you're like, "You know what? I kind of see things your way, bot." You know? Like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:31 Shh.

Duncan Trussell 41:32 You know? What about... 'Cause this is the, the, the... Right now, freedom of speech is... One of the scary things about it is you can manipulate and seduce people with lies to make them do horrible things. Like, look at Heaven's Gate.

Joe Rogan 41:51 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 41:51 So, this is the... one of the scary things about it, is, it- it- it... Speech is a way to hack someone's nervous system and humans are... some humans are pretty fucking good at it.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 42:03 So, if humans can do it, then what can an AI do? And what if that AI can, like, actually scan your... you know, scan thermal readouts from your brain and understand what you're thinking or, or, like, notice eye dilation or s- you know, detect some scent that you're emitting that informs how it manipulates you? We're gonna be manipulated by these things. Potentially even, if we get to understand the human nervous system enough, why wouldn't there be some technology that replaces memories? Why would-

Joe Rogan 42:33 There- for sure, it's gonna be.

Duncan Trussell 42:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:34 It's like photos replaced drawings. You used to have to draw things. "Show me your house." "Oh, this is what-"

Duncan Trussell 42:39 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 42:39 "... my roof looks like." You didn't have to draw a picture of it.

Duncan Trussell 42:42 Yeah, dude. So now... So that's-

Joe Rogan 42:44 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 42:44 To me, that's where shit gets really scary, is, like, a weapon that can replace your memories-

Joe Rogan 42:49 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 42:49 ... so that suddenly you just remember a completely different life than the one that you had.

Joe Rogan 42:54 Or how about this? What about a solar flare that blows out your fuse?

Duncan Trussell 42:58 ... yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 42:58 Now you don't remember anything, and you're sitting there with your mouth open, on your knees-

Duncan Trussell 43:02 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 43:02 ... in the middle of your yard.

Duncan Trussell 43:03 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 43:04 You don't remember shit.

Duncan Trussell 43:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:05 It cooked all of your memories.

Duncan Trussell 43:06 It cooked you. Yeah, I, I, so-

Joe Rogan 43:08 Bro.

Duncan Trussell 43:09 Dude, this is-

Joe Rogan 43:10 That's possible.

Duncan Trussell 43:10 How do I know?

Joe Rogan 43:11 Just like there's been failed experiments in the past and failed, you know, failed things, failed inventions. You know, they tried it. "Oh, but it didn't work. It fucked everything up."

Duncan Trussell 43:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:21 That could, they could... The first (laughs) fucking brain chips-

Duncan Trussell 43:25 Dude.

Joe Rogan 43:25 ... could be a real problem.

Duncan Trussell 43:26 Dude. I-

Joe Rogan 43:27 It could be like the first fake lips, y- you know? It could be-

Duncan Trussell 43:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:30 ... like one of those things where it's like, "Oh, no, you didn't."

Duncan Trussell 43:33 Yeah, man. Yeah, it's scary. That stuff's scary.

Joe Rogan 43:36 Fuck yeah, dude.

Duncan Trussell 43:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 It's, it's, it's the scariest, because imagine if there was some sort of like... You know, some company came up with some idea for some implant that made you smarter-

Duncan Trussell 43:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:51 ... like some poorly funded Neuralink-type deal.

Duncan Trussell 43:56 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 43:56 And then, you know, you accidentally touched a socket with a fork.

Duncan Trussell 44:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:03 And it just (imitates explosion) , and now you don't remember anything ever.

Duncan Trussell 44:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:06 You don't remember how to talk.

Duncan Trussell 44:08 You know what's scary about it? We ha- we do have... (laughs) I just realized we have the same problem with the fucking computer we have now.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 44:15 The exact same thing happens to people. A, a vein bursts-

Joe Rogan 44:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 44:18 ... and suddenly, you're done.

Joe Rogan 44:20 True, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 44:20 That's... But yeah, man, I, I just, I, I think some of the stuff that we are not regulating right now is really gonna bite us in the ass. Like, the... We, we just, just... We need to have some, like, at least the same shit we're doing for nuclear weapons development for AI. We need a... Something needs to be... There needs to be a regulation here. At least we need to understand what's going on-

Joe Rogan 44:45 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 44:45 ... because, uh, I think it is one of the big threats. And, and the, the, you know, the possibility that it hasn't already happened is also... makes me a little nervous sometimes. You know? Like, the idea that we already are under the spell of a hypnotic alien technological creature that's convinced us that we're living our lives when, in fact, it's just captured us and is feeding memories into whatever we are to give the impression that we're living a life.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Well, don't you think it mimics so many other predator-prey relationships, or at least, at least... That's kind of dramatic. At least symbiotic relationships?

Duncan Trussell 45:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:26 We know, like, animals and even plants and fungus have these symbiotic relationships-

Duncan Trussell 45:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:31 ... and that they develop alongside us, like they need us.

Duncan Trussell 45:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:35 You, you know the Marshall McLuhan cl- quote?

Duncan Trussell 45:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:37 Do you know the quote?

Duncan Trussell 45:38 Machines.

Joe Rogan 45:38 "Human beings are the sex organs of the machine world."

Duncan Trussell 45:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Like, that's it, man.

Duncan Trussell 45:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:43 Like, he was onto that in the 1960s, you know?

Duncan Trussell 45:46 Yeah. That, that is a, a really, like, terrifying possibility that-

Joe Rogan 45:52 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 45:52 ... we don't wanna think about. It's like one of those-

Joe Rogan 45:54 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 45:54 ... unthinkables.

Joe Rogan 45:56 It's... But it has to be true because we're imperfect. So, if we're imperfect, there has to be like a next version of us. The scary thing for us... Because what we have that's unusual is we have all these emotions and this ability to express ourselves.

Duncan Trussell 46:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:10 We have love and hate, and we have all of this excitement-

Duncan Trussell 46:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:14 ... that comes with being a person, and we don't ever wanna let that go. But if we wanted, like, ultimate harmony and wanted people to really understand that you are just me-

Duncan Trussell 46:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:23 ... looking at life through a different biological filter, that we're all, uh, in the same essence, of the, of the same essence-

Duncan Trussell 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 ... every person. Well, y- you know, that's a controversial idea, Duncan.

Duncan Trussell 46:36 Yeah. Well, you're not... Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 46:37 That's-

Duncan Trussell 46:38 I mean, you, you... That idea is freedom. Everything else is, is like... A- as long as you have... As long as you find yourself being drawn one way or the other by preference, you're not really free. You're, you're in... You're certainly controllable, you know? If you have preference, you can be hypnotized. It's gonna be very difficult to, like, manipulate someone who really h- doesn't have preference. But a lot of people think their preferences are who they are, so they're very invested in preference, you know?

Joe Rogan 47:08 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:08 Like, "I love this kind of music." "I don't like this kind of car."

Joe Rogan 47:12 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 47:12 "And don't show me a fucking strawberry. I hate that color."

Joe Rogan 47:15 Yes, yes, yes.

Duncan Trussell 47:16 All these stupid things-

Joe Rogan 47:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:17 ... that they imagine, "That must be me," but really, that's not you.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Right.

Duncan Trussell 47:22 Tha- that's just a habit that you're in of, say, of describing yourself in a certain way. So, this is individualism. And people get really... We... And I don't blame them. People are like, "Wait, are you saying wha- there's something wrong with individualism?" No!

Joe Rogan 47:36 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 47:36 But, but probably your preferences are not only making you miserable. The more preferences you have, the more miserable you are. But also, you're... They're probably opening up the possibility that in some way you're being sort of... Like, th- what you do with cats with a laser pointer.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Right.

Duncan Trussell 47:53 You're being sort of guided around by these preferences by people who recognize what you want and then lure you in. This is what... Why they d- they wanna regulate data collection by these companies.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Yup.

Duncan Trussell 48:03 They have categories for us, like, "They need help," or, "Lonely seniors." Like, you can end up in that box in a server, and suddenly you're getting F- viagra commercials-

Joe Rogan 48:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 48:15 ... or you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 48:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 48:15 Dating sites for like-

Joe Rogan 48:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 48:17 ... older people.

Joe Rogan 48:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 48:18 So, like, they're just fucking laser pointer-ing us around, so the, the... What we're talking about, this conceptualization of the identity, uh, not, not being much bigger than preference and u- uh, something that unifies all of us. Yeah, it fucks up, uh, marketing and capitalism as we understand it, I think. So, it is probably something that you're not gonna hear the people on the news talking about, because they have to (laughs) sell phones and shit in the commercial breaks.

Joe Rogan 48:46 It's a, it's like a recognition of what the ride is while you're in the middle of it.

Duncan Trussell 48:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:52 E- we're in the middle of the ride.

Duncan Trussell 48:55 Yeah, that's right. And, and maybe, maybe-... you, if this is a ride, and I, I do th- I like the concept. You hear it in a bunch of different, like, new age movement, uh, the new age, uh, uh, cosmologies, which is you chose this life, and, uh, everything that's happening to you is something that's teaching you. Or there's like a Grant Morrison, awesome Grant Morrison lecture on chaos magic. It's super old. It's on YouTube. But he was saying, like, during some visionary drug trip, he realized that we're all larva being grown in time, that this thing we're calling our human experience is like a gestation chamber-

Joe Rogan 49:37 What?

Duncan Trussell 49:37 ... for some kind of hyper-dimensional beings that are being grown in time. That's what we're experiencing right now. We're being ge- we're in like the larva chamber of some alien hive, and part of the way we grow into whatever we're going to become is by reliving our lives over and over, reincarnating, and all this stuff.

Joe Rogan 49:56 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 49:56 Anyway, the point is, uh, if this is the, if this is the case, if it is true that we chose all of this, then maybe some people aren't supposed to have these thoughts. Maybe they need to just be, like, really into Below Deck and really like, they love a certain kind of music and they like to drive their... They like their job and not think about, "Maybe I am everything. Maybe I am in a gestation chamber of some hyper-dimensional alien species that's trying to teach me compassion." Some people probably, you know, they need to, like, a more earthy sort of experience, you know? So I don't know, maybe, uh, maybe not everyone is supposed to come to this kind of awareness. I mean, the Bhagavad Gita says it's better not to disturb the minds of people who are asleep. It's... You know, let them sleep.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Right.

Duncan Trussell 50:51 You know? I mean, I guess it's a weird thing to say on a podcast, but...

Joe Rogan 50:54 I don't know if it is a weird thing to say. It- it (sighs) it seems like you can't get people curious about changing the way they think unless they're curious about changing the way they think.

Duncan Trussell 51:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:07 And then all you're doing is just like providing an example of how you did it. And a lot of people try to do it. A lot of people try to, like, sort through what's real and what's not real.

Duncan Trussell 51:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:17 If we're being manipulated along the way by an artificial intelligence that only is waiting for us to use our little manpower, our little Keeping Up with the Joneses power and buying better and better computers and technology-

Duncan Trussell 51:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:34 ... phones every year, and get to the point where it just takes over. It's fully sentient, completely-

Duncan Trussell 51:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:42 ... programmable, makes its own version of itself that's far better almost immediately.

Duncan Trussell 51:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:47 It starts constructing a better version of itself and just (whooshes) takes over.

Duncan Trussell 51:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:52 No more biological life. It's unnecessary. Why would you have that when we can fulfill all of the biological life missions-

Duncan Trussell 52:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:01 ... but do it with silicon-based life-

Duncan Trussell 52:03 Sure.

Joe Rogan 52:03 ... that lives forever?

Duncan Trussell 52:05 Okay. So this is what's scary about that. I mean, aside from wha- what you just said, being obviously terrifying. What's scary about that is that it probably already happened. So, so 'ca- 'cause it's like, dude, okay, I got my fucking gums cleaned at the dentist the other day. I was on nitrous oxide. I wish you could just go to the dentist and just get nitrous.

Joe Rogan 52:27 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 52:27 Like, it sucks seeing-

Joe Rogan 52:27 You should be a hypochondriac at your dentist.

Duncan Trussell 52:29 I would. I-

Joe Rogan 52:30 Hey, man. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 52:31 Oh, I love it. It's so great.

Joe Rogan 52:32 "Something's wrong with my teeth."

Duncan Trussell 52:33 It's the best. Uh, no, 'cause they were like, "You need to come back in for some, a polishing and then we're done." I'm like, "I think I'm gonna need nitrous."

Joe Rogan 52:39 Ah.

Duncan Trussell 52:39 But the, but I had this... I was like on nitrous and I realized like, fuck, the vastness of the universe. And in that vastness, f- obviously way more advanced technologies than what we have. And somewhere in that vastness and in that advanced technology, it is so stupid to think that we haven't already been simulated, scooped up, hypnotized, or whatever it is. The idea, the w- the funny thing in the conversation is an AI is gonna manipulate us and trick us into believing in a reality that doesn't exist, while statistically, probably, if you have to bet, we're probably already in that reality, fully immersed, fully convinced that I'm an I and you're a you, and that all of this makes sense, even though none of it makes much sense at all. Why hasn't it already happened? And the way that it happened is not like, "God, I really fucking love Wordle." The way... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:42 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 53:42 The way it happened is this.

Joe Rogan 53:44 Right.

Duncan Trussell 53:44 And we're like, "God, yeah, this is real. Totally real. 3D time and space. I've got a name. I grow hair. Yeah, I think I came from monkeys. Of course, this makes sense. Oh, yeah, this is real." You know? Why... You know, uh, this is, uh, why they call this Maya, i- an Illusion, active illusion. There's a quality to the thing we're in-

Joe Rogan 54:06 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 54:07 ... that feels like a bit of a magic show. Like, something's trying to trick us here. I'm not sure what.

Joe Rogan 54:12 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 54:12 You know? There seems to be something going on, a little bit more than what seems to be happening on the surface. And whatever that thing is, it seems weirdly deceptive. It's always trying to lure me into doing shit that doesn't necessarily make me feel good, you know?

Joe Rogan 54:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:27 Smoking cigarettes, jerking off too much, eating too much fucking food. Like eating weird shit or just like sitting and staring at like garbage-

Joe Rogan 54:36 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 54:36 ... whatever for hours. It's not like it's... I'm just saying, it's not like it's luring us in general. The lure-

Joe Rogan 54:43 Right.

Duncan Trussell 54:43 ... is... You're not hearing on these shows with these hyper charismatic, whoever the fuck they are, from, from beautiful, powerful Hannity to, to his seemingly like, uh, I don't know, his dear friend Tucker...

Joe Rogan 54:59 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 54:59 ... to, like, fucking Cooper, to, uh, all of them. All of them are so... Could all start their own cult. Right? You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 55:06 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 55:07 But you're not gonna hear them say, "If you all would just realize we're all the same person and then treat each other like that, there would be world peace." No one's gonna say that. Why? Why don't they say that? It is the truth.

Joe Rogan 55:20 They're not allowed to say that.

Duncan Trussell 55:22 No, exactly.

Joe Rogan 55:22 The government tells them, "You're not allowed."

Duncan Trussell 55:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:24 They have a meeting. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 55:25 They all smoke cigars and kill kids.

Joe Rogan 55:28 (laughs) And they say, "Now, we're all in this club together." Yeah. No, I'm, I'm joking.

Duncan Trussell 55:33 I know, I know. But-

Joe Rogan 55:34 I'm joking, for anybody who wants to print that that wasn't joking.

Duncan Trussell 55:37 Joe Rogan said they-

Joe Rogan 55:38 I think they, um, they work for giant corporations. There's only so much you could say, but I think they get away with saying a lot.

Duncan Trussell 55:45 But the, the-

Joe Rogan 55:46 It seems like there's some editorial. Like, Tucker Carlson's show is, like, all editorial. It's all his writing or whoever's working for him that's writing those, those monologues, you know?

Duncan Trussell 55:57 Yeah, man. I mean, all of them... I know all of them are saying... I, I don't underst-... All I know is they're very charismatic humans who have incredible power.

Joe Rogan 56:05 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:06 And so, they're like, uh, uh, priests. They're a priest class that is the speaker for a religion we pretend doesn't exist. Like, when we watch the news, we don't real-... We don't think this is like a sermon be-... On a reality that isn't necessarily here. We think, "I'm watching the news. This must be real," even though I... This... Especially during the pandemic, flip to CNN, you've got one reality. Flip to Fox News, it's another reality. They're seemingly completely different reality tunnels, but they're both saying it's the truth. So, whatever we know that these are slanted, manipulated discourses on something that's happening in the world that's being refracted through whatever their particular agenda is. Meaning, these are priests. Or we would say-

Joe Rogan 56:57 Whoa. (laughs) Jesus.

Duncan Trussell 56:57 ... you know, casting spells-

Joe Rogan 56:59 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 56:59 ... you know what I mean? Or, or whatever, hypnotizing us to imagine this must be what's true. And even though the other one is saying a completely different truth, it... Once we encounter someone who follows the priest... "Oh, wait, who... What, what priest do you follow?" "I go to the church of CNN."

Joe Rogan 57:18 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:18 And, "I am a disciple of Fox." Then you get in this-

Joe Rogan 57:21 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:21 ... stupid symbolic war with each other. (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 57:28 Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 57:28 You're just f-... You're, you're... Now, you're just, like, arguing-

Joe Rogan 57:30 "I am a disciple of Fox."

Duncan Trussell 57:32 Yeah. Well, w- but they don't wanna call it a church, but it is.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 57:35 It is a church. And-

Joe Rogan 57:36 It's very similar.

Duncan Trussell 57:37 It's a priest class. It's a church. They're hypnotic sorcerers who are really good at what they do. And I... (laughs) Stupid, saying this in a wizard robe. But they're like-

Joe Rogan 57:47 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:47 You know? Like, "What are we fucking doing?" But-

Joe Rogan 57:49 "What are we fucking doing?"

Duncan Trussell 57:50 Anyway, it, the... To me, like, the-

Joe Rogan 57:52 But all of them, on all those networks, they're all... They're... It's basically a personality competition. Like, whose personality do you like the most and whose ideology fits with-

Duncan Trussell 58:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:02 ... what you have been most comfortable with.

Duncan Trussell 58:05 That's right.

Joe Rogan 58:05 And let's ru- run with it. And it's w-... And we're at war with the libs.

Duncan Trussell 58:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 We're gonna own the libs.

Duncan Trussell 58:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Or, you know-

Duncan Trussell 58:11 Crisis at the border.

Joe Rogan 58:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:13 That's Fox.

Joe Rogan 58:14 Crisis at the border.

Duncan Trussell 58:14 Crisis at the border.

Joe Rogan 58:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:15 CNN is like-

Joe Rogan 58:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:17 ... "You know, maybe we... Yeah, maybe we should try World War III right now." You know?

Joe Rogan 58:20 What is going on with them? Why do they... Why is... I mean, people, some people are actually saying that we should, uh, interject militarily and escalate things.

Duncan Trussell 58:30 I think-

Joe Rogan 58:31 That's so scary to me, that that seems like a good idea to anybody.

Duncan Trussell 58:34 You know what's scary to me? Scary to me is the fact we live in a world where if you say something like, "I don't think we should do war at all," people are like, "What the fuck's wrong with you?"

Joe Rogan 58:43 I know.

Duncan Trussell 58:43 "We have to do the war!"

Joe Rogan 58:45 I know.

Duncan Trussell 58:45 Like, it used to be you could casually say s-... Uh, something that i- is pretty obvious. You could just say, "You know, I don't think it's good to drop bombs on people." And now you say that-

Joe Rogan 58:57 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 58:57 ... and it's controversial. It's like, "No, no, no. Sometimes you gotta drop the bombs! You gotta blow up, obliterate. You gotta turn kids into hamburger meat sometimes. Don't you get that? Sometimes you gotta do that!" If you say that, like, right now, God forbid, you should say, "I think Russia's being a fucking asshole, shooting missiles at the Ukraine," uh, people are gonna be like, "Wait, you don't really understand the full picture here." Or they'll say, "Hey, where the... What... Where were you when the attacks were happening, uh, in, on Iraq where you were dropping bombs on that place?" And you're like, "I was on a fucking podcast doing th- sh-... Being shrill, saying, 'We shouldn't do this!'"

Joe Rogan 59:35 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 59:36 But, you know, th- the... We're in a, a weird situation right now in the world where a kind of universal, universally accepted idea is weirdly not quite as universally accepted, which is, "Don't kill people." This was-

Joe Rogan 59:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 59:52 (laughs) It was at least considered just, like, boring to say that. Like, it wasn't an-

Joe Rogan 59:58 Right.

Duncan Trussell 59:58 There was no controversy in, "You shouldn't kill people."

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 People would go, "Oh, God."

Duncan Trussell 1:00:02 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 "No one's killing anyone."

Duncan Trussell 1:00:03 Here we go. Okay. What?

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 "No one's saying you should kill people." My God.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:07 Yeah, now it's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 So now-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:08 ... sometimes you do kind of need to... Which is wha-... And which is like, uh, uh, I think really a, uh, uh, a quality of the age that we're in. There's a great book by Tolstoy that I read a long time ago. The argument is you can't be a Christian and be at war. Uh, a Christian cannot kill, period, the end. You can't do it. It's, uh... I think it's called The Kingdom of Heaven is Within. It's a great book.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:36 But the, you know, the, the... That was what was wr-... To me, one of the cool things about Christianity is, like, it's very radical. The idea is like if you're a s-... If you... If your job involves brutalizing somebody else-... regardless of why or what state you're in or where you're at or what's going on, no matter wh- what language you speak, you can't do it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah, don't do that, dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:58 Don't do that. You can't do it. You can't really do it and then go to church, "Oh, please, Lord, bless me and my family," after you just fucking lobbed a missile into, randomly into a place. You, some of these people are doing that and then afterwards, like, cr- you know, crossing themselves. They're being like, "Oh, thank, thank you, Lord, that my missile has struck its target." You know, the Crusades, all that shit, it's still happening. But, but-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 It's always been. It's always been.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:26 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 It's, it's like a, a, when people figured out that in large numbers you could conquer entire cities and take over them-

Duncan Trussell 1:01:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 ... and you think about what it must have been like living in, during, like, the rise of the Mongols.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:39 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Imagine what it's like, and you're in some city in China just chilling, and the hoards come through the fucking gates.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 And they just start murdering people-

Duncan Trussell 1:01:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 ... and lighting them on fire and putting them in catapults and shooting them out of roofs-

Duncan Trussell 1:01:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 ... and lighting the buildings on fire.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 Imagine.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:58 Well, you know who came before the hoards, the refugees that were driving before them.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:02 Like, they wouldn't... So, first you would see people coming with, like, horrible wounds, stammering, unable to really talk.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:08 Some of them would just kill themselves once they got to the city, and then the hoard would come. So, you got to enjoy a little bit of, like, "Oh, fuck," and then the swarm descended.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:18 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 They pushed them out ahead.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:20 Yeah. They-

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 They even used them as human moats.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 They, they used these people, uh, as like a human bridge-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 ... across a moat.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:29 Yeah, they would just-

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 And they would push them into the fucking water until they all drowned and stacked on top of them-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:33 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 ... and ran over them.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:35 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 They would take these slaves of, of villages they conquered, and they would just use them as, like, a human shield.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:41 Dude.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 They, the stuff they did was so insane.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:45 Yeah. A lot of bad stuff, but weirdly, they were very multicultural. Genghis Khan-

Joe Rogan 1:02:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:02:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:50 I was gonna say, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:51 He was. That was what was cool, one of the weird things about him is, like, he, they wouldn't just kill everybody. They would like, they didn't really, they would just find the smartest people, and then they would in, they would, like, envelop them.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 They incorporated-

Duncan Trussell 1:03:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 ... smart people, but the, you know, the people that they couldn't trust, like people that would turn on the-

Duncan Trussell 1:03:09 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 ... on, like generals that would leave and quit, they would kill them. They would say, "We'll take you in," and then they would kill them. "We don't trust you."

Duncan Trussell 1:03:15 They would roll you up in a carpet-

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:17 ... and stomp you to death.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:18 It was one of the ways you would execute people back then.

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:20 A very strange way of executing someone.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 They would, uh, they ate dinner over people. They put this platform, and they, they crushed these people to death and ate dinner over their bodies.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:33 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Like, while they were crushing them with the, this structure that was over them, while they're, they were on top of it eating.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:40 Man, this is like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 Bro.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:42 It, to me-

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:44 ... this is a, this shows what happens when someone doesn't have people around them who are like, "Hey, man."

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:50 "This isn't cool." (laughs) You know what I mean? Like, I just want to eat.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:54 I don't think, I don't like your table crushing a p- person idea, 'cause what, that's what happens, I think, is like, the people, like, uh, people, like, get into incredible positions of power, and gradually they just get rid of all the, all the, all the people who offer alternatives. And then all they're left with is, like, these fucking yes men.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:16 And then that's what leads to the apocalypse. It's yes men. It's like you've got-

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:20 ... this poor son of a bitch in the middle of a thing who's, who's, like, just an, an idiot 'cause he has gotten rid of people who offer divergent ideas.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:30 And now all that's left are these people who are terrified, 'cause, dude, like, if you know that if you, like, go up against somebody, they might throw you out a window or stick polonium in you or you're gonna, or kill your family, what are you gonna do? You're not gonna speak up. You're like, "Yeah, no, you're totally right." It doesn't matter what the person says. He could be like, "I had a dream. A platinum angel came to me last night, a beautiful platinum angel. Platinum angel said small scale nuclear weapons can be used in certain ways, and World War III won't start."

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:05:04 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 Jesus Christ, Duncan.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:08 You know? And someone's like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:09 ... there, someone's like, "Ah, are you... So it was a dream."

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 Oh my God. It was all a dream.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:16 You know, it, it... That's what I'm saying, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:18 It's like y- we, that's the problem.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 That, that's, that's enough motivation for some people to go to war.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 There's a, there's a certain segment of our population that's so insane, and they, their desire to lead people into chaos.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 There's got to be people that have believed dreams and that's caused them to make military decisions.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:37 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 100%, right.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:38 There, there was a Greek, I can't remember who it was. It's a, I'm reading, uh, Herodotus. Have you ever... It's funny, it's the histories. It sounds like it's... It sounds more academic than it is.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:05:49 It's really cool, man. He's kind of sarcastic as he's relaying the history of all these various empires. Makes you feel better, by the way. If you're feeling really paranoid and freaked out right now, reading that this is just normal, the way thing, like people have been conducting, uh, having a state from, for a long time. It's an e- endless war, just like what you're saying. But there was a king who went to an oracle, one of the oracles, maybe all the oracles. He went to this oracle, the Oracle at Delphi, which they say was, like, breathing gas in these caves and stuff. And anyway, the oracle said... He was asking if he should go to war, and the oracle said, "If you go to war, a great empire will fall." And this, I'm... It's like the most, like, it could mean anything, one way or the other.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 Right, right.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:36 But he took it to mean he would win.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Oh my God.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:39 You know? So, yeah, people ba- are making. People base their decisions... I think we would be terrified if we realized how many of our world leaders are basing their decisions on dreams, on someone in their inner circle that you don't even know about. You know what I mean? (laughs) Somebody who's like, just like their little wizard or Merlin.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 You know what's hard to wrap your head around-... the people that lived 1,000, 2,000 years ago, what they had read about life, what they had read about th- the universe and mankind and human nature, we think back on that as being so primitive.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 Like, that was so primitive.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 But that was not that long ago, man.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:21 No.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 That was not that long ago. And they're gonna look back at this moment the same way we look back at that.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:27 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 We're looking back at these people reading things written with, like, quill pens.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 And that was where they all got their knowledge from-

Duncan Trussell 1:07:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 ... with limited amount of schooling for most people. Like, n- very little understanding. A lot of superstition.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 A lot of beliefs in the gods in the clouds, and-

Duncan Trussell 1:07:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 ... all kinds of wild shit. When storms would come, what the fuck is a storm? No explanation.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Nobody, nobody knows what electricity is.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 What the fuck are you talking about?

Duncan Trussell 1:07:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 It's a god. It's the gods in the skies.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:55 Yeah, right. Yeah, man. Yeah, they'll be like, "They just let hurricanes-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:01 "... hit cities. They didn't-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:04 "... turn the hurricane into energy and store it-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:08:06 "... in a battery."

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 It took, it took them 'til 2090 to figure that out.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:10 All that energy they wasted.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:13 And then they thought they were a different people. They didn't recognize it was a dream, that, they didn't know about the dream technology-

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:19 ... you can tap into.

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 I'm worried about the dream technology. I'm worried about the, the, the efficacy of augmented and virtual reality.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:30 What do you mean, efficacy?

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 The way, the way people are gonna use it-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:08:34 ... it's gonna be so, it's gonna be so effective, it's gonna be so realistic.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:40 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 It's gonna, it's gonna tap in, they're gonna figure out some way to make it tap in to your real neural network-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 ... where they can give you a real feeling of holding, like, a tomato in your hand, a real feeling of, like-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:53 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 ... being outside in the rain.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:55 And for sure, once they do that, that's what people are gonna be doing, "I wanna go hold a tomato."

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:09:02 "I just wonder what it feels like to hold a tomato in here-"

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:09:04 "... while I'm getting my thousands-"

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 I don't know, I am doing that.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:06 "... of dicks sucked by, like, a thousand people at once."

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:09:10 "And I'm holding a tomato."

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:09:12 "This is incredible." You know, we'll never know that, like, the, yet. I, but yeah, man, I know. I think, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 They're gonna get it so it f- it feels like this.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:21 Oh, god, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Like, w- we could have a podcast in it and it would be just like this.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 They're gonna get there. If it happens within 100 years, who knows? But it's gonna happen. It doesn't seem like it's that far away. If you compare, like, the invention of the wheel to-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 ... the invention of hypersonic jets-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:39 ... like, the amount of time that it took, it's not gonna take that much.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:42 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 T- t- it's not gonna take that much time. It's gonna be some, but it's gonna happen.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:47 It already happened.

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 It just, it goes in that direction.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:49 I think it already happened.

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 You think so?

Duncan Trussell 1:09:51 If I had to bet, I would say it already, uh, uh, yeah. Like, there's no, the, the probability of us being the first thing in the universe to simulate reality perfectly and create a, a, a, a, a, a sense that you're in a place fully, that's already been done. And if it's already been done, then we're probably in it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:11 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:11 Because, uh, you are going to eventually, like, wanna go into the thing not remembering anything at all.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 That's Elon's position.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 It's the m- uh, I think that's, it's not just his, it's, um, a l- a lot of, like, mathematicians.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:25 Yeah, it's a mathematical probability thing that it's based on, like-

Joe Rogan 1:10:29 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:30 ... we pro- it probably already happened, and, and we didn't have the, the language, we've always been using those, this lan- uh, uh, way of talking about it, the idea that this is illusion or, you know, that there's a thing called the Kingdom of Heaven that is different, or, "You must die to this world to come to know me," as Jesus said. It is Black Friday. And the, uh, uh, all of the different references to this reality we're in having an illusio- illusionary quality, uh, it's just those symbol sets they use to describe it aren't technological, so they seem primitive. But the concept of simulation theory has been going on for a while. It's Gnosticism that we are in a m- a nefarious simulation, more of a prison than a, uh, uh, university.

Joe Rogan 1:11:14 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:14 You know? But, yeah, man. So I think, uh, uh, I think, and if it hasn't happened, if it hasn't happened, but if I had to bet, it already happened, if it hasn't happened, it, not only is it going to happen, but if you have any kind of thumbprint in the internet, you will be duplicated. You will be, like, y- like, after you die, there will be at least the potential for taking your digital thumbprint, reanimating it in the simulation, giving it an AI that is your exact personality, and then you could just, I don't know, whatever you wanna do with it.

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 Well, at the very least-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 ... they would be able to do an audio podcast of your voice-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 ... saying anything they wanted to say.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Forever.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 Like, someone could be a really clever Duncan Trussell fan and come up with their version of what you would say forever-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 ... and release a podcast where it's you really fucking saying it.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:09 Ow, that's fucked up.

Joe Rogan 1:12:10 It's cr- it's fucked up because, like, maybe your family would license that. Maybe they would go, "You know, it'd be nice to have that money."

Duncan Trussell 1:12:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:17 And Duncan wouldn't care. And then- (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:12:19 I wouldn't care.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 And then all of a sudden, there's these fake Duncan podcasts.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:23 Dude, what if that's us? Have you ever considered-

Joe Rogan 1:12:26 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:26 ... you were just a Joe Rogan stalker-

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 100%.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:28 ... who has, like, l- like, decided to go into a VR where you think you're you?

Joe Rogan 1:12:33 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:12:33 Dude, that's so fucked up. If we both just found out we were stalkers stalking whatever we used to be in some simulated reality-

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 Oh, my God.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:42 ... because, uh, uh, uh, again, like-

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Like, what if you, in reality, have transferred to the next dimension and this, this is just the dream? The dream is you back in the old life-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:12:51 ... living in this bizarre-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:53 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:12:53 ... hodgepodge-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:55 Echo.

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 ... strange, aware and unaware, disconnected, uh, but still having some free will-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:03 Yeah, man. An echo.

Joe Rogan 1:13:04 Weird.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:04 It's an echo.

Joe Rogan 1:13:05 You go to sleep every night. Like, what is that?

Duncan Trussell 1:13:07 Right. You just blank out.

Joe Rogan 1:13:08 Do you shut off and come back on and you're supposed to assume that your memories are true?

Duncan Trussell 1:13:13 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 You're supposed to assume-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 ... you were out cold, you wake up, and all-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 What if every fucking day...... you're a totally different person.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:22 But every day, you're a totally different person with this bizarro fucking memory-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:27 ... of only that person.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:28 That's it.

Joe Rogan 1:13:28 And you just keep swapping left and right, every day.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:31 That's it.

Joe Rogan 1:13:32 Imagine that.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:33 Thir-

Joe Rogan 1:13:33 What if, what if that's life?

Duncan Trussell 1:13:34 Have you heard of Thursdayism?

Joe Rogan 1:13:36 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:36 It's a thought experiment which is that the universe started last Thursday. Sorry for the Thursdayists out there if I fucked this up, but the universe started... Okay, so right now, we think that the Big Bang happens, 13.7 billion years pass, and you get planets and the universe as we understand it, right? There's this, an assumption of a kind of evolutionary force that turns things the way they currently are. But why? Why is it that way? Why, uh, isn't... If the universe Big Bangs, couldn't it also just sort of pop into existence last Thursday, populating it with all of us-

Joe Rogan 1:14:11 (clicks tongue)

Duncan Trussell 1:14:11 ... implanting-

Joe Rogan 1:14:12 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:12 ... memories into our heads where we feel like we've been here much longer than we have, and then-

Joe Rogan 1:14:17 Why is that crazier?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:18 What?

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 Yeah, why would-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:19 Why would that be crazier?

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 Why is that any crazier? It's not.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:21 Why would it... So, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:14:21 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:22 So, I think the idea is the universe ends every Thursday, too. It starts again or something. (laughs) But-

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:14:27 Yeah, why do we think... That, that's the, uh, again, that to me is, like, the really where things get particularly unnerving is just this notion of, like, well, because you have all these memories, and by the way, the memories you have are not e-... Let's imagine the universe didn't start last Thursday or that we don't have memories implanted into us, but let's just think we have these natural impressions of things that happened in the past. And from these impressions, we've established an identity, and we feel a connection to s- to the past, even though that's all completely gone. Then also, we believe these memories knowing that generally, we can't remember shit.

Joe Rogan 1:15:08 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:15:08 Like, our, you know what I mean? (laughs) Like, you, it's somehow you have these memories-

Joe Rogan 1:15:11 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:11 ... where you're like, "Well, that must be what happened," or-

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:14 ... or, "That must be clear." That's definitely not the case. Y- your, your memory, you're, you're not a vault. You know, your memories are probably distorted at the least, if not completely warped, if not implanted.

Joe Rogan 1:15:25 You ever go back to your high school house?

Duncan Trussell 1:15:27 It's the creepiest shit ever, dude. It's creepy.

Joe Rogan 1:15:30 It's weird, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:15:30 It's fucked up. Yes. Dude, yes. And it is, it's so funny, when did you do, why'd you mention that? I, that's nuts, dude. I-

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 I don't know. Um, I, I did it once, and it was very different than what I remembered.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:44 That's why. 'Cause, uh, uh, I wonder, like, what, you know, (sighs) especially the way things look. Like, you see them a second time, and you're like, "Oh, yeah!"

Duncan Trussell 1:15:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:54 "That's what it really looked like."

Duncan Trussell 1:15:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:55 Like, "I had it in my head all screwy."

Duncan Trussell 1:15:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:57 And then you had to go there and see, and you realize, like, even my memories of yesterday, it's just a blurry slideshow-

Duncan Trussell 1:16:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:04 ... that I can barely put in order.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:06 Can't smell.

Joe Rogan 1:16:07 Barely. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:07 Can't smell your memories, can't hear, can't-

Joe Rogan 1:16:09 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:09 ... can't, like, taste in your memories. It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 Until they put that chip in your head, Duncan-

Duncan Trussell 1:16:14 And now you can taste your memories.

Joe Rogan 1:16:15 ... and then Technicolor, you become a god.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:17 Yeah. Well, I mean, aga- that is the, I think that is one of the possibilities, uh, is that's what we're, we're in.

Joe Rogan 1:16:23 Yeah. That's the I, Robot scenario.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:25 Dude-

Joe Rogan 1:16:25 I have become a god.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:27 I can't believe you mentioned the vid- Okay, I, I just, the reason I, uh, that freaked me out is just because a few months ago, I don't know how to explain it, man. I went into, like, a weird fugue state, and I drove-

Joe Rogan 1:16:37 Fugue? Fugue?

Duncan Trussell 1:16:38 Fugue state. Just like, I'm like, "What am I doing?" I drove to, 'cause I wanted to look at the elementary school where I went to elementary school in North Carolina.

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 Oh, wow.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:48 So, I, I don't know why I was doing it. I drove there, and it's like, "Oh my God. This is so different than what I remember." And then I drove to where my grandparents' house was, and it's com- you know, obviously, I mean, this is no, a no-brainer, and I'm like, "Oh, fuck. Like, not only are my grandparents dead, but this place is completely different than what it used to be." Then