Joe Rogan Experience #1807 - Douglas Murray

1. 0:00 – 0:39

   Catching up post-pandemic: fitness, travel, and lockdown fatigue

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music) Oh. Well, I guess we are going there. (laughs)

   3. DMDouglas Murray0:15

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      We're up and running.

   5. DMDouglas Murray0:16

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      First of all, you look fucking great. You look like you've been working out. What's going on?

   7. DMDouglas Murray0:20

      I have been.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      You have been.

   9. DMDouglas Murray0:21

      And I'm also not wearing suits.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Dude, you look jacked.

   11. DMDouglas Murray0:24

       Well, that's very kind. So do you.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       You do.

   13. DMDouglas Murray0:26

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       But you look like, uh, like- like the pandemic's been... There's two different types of people during the pandemic, the people that gained weight and the people that got fit, and you look like a- a fit man.

   15. DMDouglas Murray0:34

       I tr- I certainly tried not to gain weight during the pandemic.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Yeah, you look good.

   17. DMDouglas Murray0:37

       Uh, very kind.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Congratulations on that.

   19. DMDouglas Murray0:38

       Thank you, you too.

2. 0:39 – 4:32

   Power trips, masks, and performative COVID rules

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:39

      On holding it down. What does it feel like to be wandering the world now?

   2. DMDouglas Murray0:43

      Uh, yeah, I mean, I sort of was a bit during the pandemic. Joe Rogan: Oh, you're a risk taker. Well, I- I- I don't like to say exactly, uh, what I did, but I did decide that after lockdown one in my native country of the UK, I wasn't going through that again.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:58

      Mm-hmm.

   4. DMDouglas Murray0:59

      I mean, uh, lockdowns are bad everywhere, but in the UK they just kept doing them.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:03

      Yeah.

   6. DMDouglas Murray1:03

      And they started one of them in late December one year, and it was just like, like... You don't wanna spend January locked in your house and, you know, it's bad enough in the UK anyway.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15

      How did the UK handle lockdowns in terms of the restrictions? Like, what did they do?

   8. DMDouglas Murray1:20

      It was really strict.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:21

      Yeah.

   10. DMDouglas Murray1:21

       Really strict. I mean, just terrible. Uh, and you, things like, you were only allowed out f- once a day from your house for one bit of physical exercise. One friend of mine called me one day and she said, uh, "Do you have, um, spies in your neighborhood?"

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       (laughs)

   12. DMDouglas Murray1:38

       I said, I- I- (laughs) I s- I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "I- in my village we have people who, who inform." And I said, "Well, what does that look like?" She said, for instance, "Somebody, uh, leaned over the garden wall the other day and said to me, 'You are aware this is your second walk of the day?'"

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       Wow!

   14. DMDouglas Murray1:52

       I know. And I said, I s- and she said, "The embarrassing thing is I know him." People were doing really crazy stuff like that. I thought it was horribly revealing and I- I- I loathed it and I got out. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       That's just a character issue that pops up whenever people have any kind of control. You know, that's the Stanford prison experiments where they- they found it like, like-

   16. DMDouglas Murray2:11

       That's right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:11

       ... almost immediately people-

   18. DMDouglas Murray2:12

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       ... just started ordering people around and treating-

   20. DMDouglas Murray2:14

       Oh, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       ... people like shit.

   22. DMDouglas Murray2:15

       Well, look at all those people who now love it. I mean they, I mean they- they were shouting at us for years.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       Yeah.

   24. DMDouglas Murray2:20

       A- and they, they wanna keep doing it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:21

       Yes.

   26. DMDouglas Murray2:22

       I- I was in the theater recently in New York, and I mean, they- they now, they now tr- treat you like you're going to Rikers Island, uh, when you've paid a f- you know, $100 to go and see a show.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:31

       Really?

   28. DMDouglas Murray2:31

       They're already standing there, right, "Everyone l- give me, show your papers, show your da-da-da." And they say- say that, you think, "Whoa, we're... This isn't a great start to the evening," you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       Right.

   30. DMDouglas Murray2:40

       Um, I mean, this play better be funny. Uh, you know, and it- and it's, they're- they're doing that, and those people, I don't know, I don't know what we can do with them after this because they're gonna lose their meaning, um, because they've just had a whale of a time.
3. 4:32 – 8:25

   Rogan “controversy,” CNN’s credibility problem, and media hubris

   1. DMDouglas Murray4:32

      For sure. You had a good pandemic.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:34

      It was a fun time. (laughs)

   3. DMDouglas Murray4:34

      Yeah. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:36

      It was interesting.

   5. DMDouglas Murray4:38

      And- and you've been, you've been very quiet of late. We haven't heard anything of you.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:42

      Really?

   7. DMDouglas Murray4:43

      I'm being sarcastic.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:44

      Yeah, no, I mean, uh, basically you're doing the same thing.

   9. DMDouglas Murray4:46

      You have... You have been put through the ringer, Joe.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       It's, yeah, I definitely-

   11. DMDouglas Murray4:50

       You have-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       ... have put through the ringer. Yeah.

   13. DMDouglas Murray4:51

       Since we last met. I mean-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Yeah.

   15. DMDouglas Murray4:52

       ... you, they did a number on you.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       They did.

   17. DMDouglas Murray4:56

       Wow.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       It's interesting.

   19. DMDouglas Murray4:57

       Wow. I- (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       But my subscriptions went up massively. That's what's crazy. During the height of it all, I gained two million subscribers.

   21. DMDouglas Murray5:05

       I'm so pleased for you. I just, I'm- I'm pleased for everyone actually. I, uh, when I watched what they were doing to you, I just thought that- that, you know, as- as long as you survive this, something's gonna be okay in this world. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Yeah, they went for it.

   23. DMDouglas Murray5:17

       I really did feel that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       They went for it.

   25. DMDouglas Murray5:19

       And because it didn't work-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:20

       Yeah.

   27. DMDouglas Murray5:21

       ... like, it felt like everyone could sigh a bit of a breath.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       Well, it's also, it's fortunate that the people that went for it were CNN, and they're just so untrustworthy.

   29. DMDouglas Murray5:31

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:31

       And people know how biased they are and they know how socially weird their fucking anchors are, just these awkward non-relatable people.
4. 8:25 – 12:06

   Why 24-hour news and panel TV break real understanding

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:25

      Isn't that a function of time, right? 'Cause if you're, if you're dealing with a show that's only an hour long and it's supposedly a news show, you kinda have to pay attention to only the bad things because you have to be aware-

   2. DMDouglas Murray8:36

      Hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:36

      ... of those bad things, 'cause those may be, maybe those bad things are something like, you know, Russia invading Ukraine.

   4. DMDouglas Murray8:40

      Sure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:41

      Something you actually have to pay attention to. But it's not a, it's not an accurate assessment of the world at large. Like there's so much great stuff going on. It's like most of the world is wonderful.

   6. DMDouglas Murray8:52

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:52

      Most of the world is people getting along. Most interactions between people are fine.

   8. DMDouglas Murray8:56

      Sure, sure. No, I mean, uh, um, there was a British philosopher some years ago who tried to start a website which only did good news. I felt really sorry for him because it was obviously gonna fail.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:06

      (laughs)

   10. DMDouglas Murray9:07

       It was obv- it was a nice idea-

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:09

       Yeah.

   12. DMDouglas Murray9:09

       ... uh, but it was obviously gonna fail because people don't really just wanna hear that things are okay, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       Is there a problem with just the idea of having news, just news in that w- in that way? Like, where you're just going to something to see what's happening in the world, so it's almost always gonna be negative? Like there's no, there's no news channel of record that we're aware of ever that is focused on like really positive stories.

   14. DMDouglas Murray9:33

       No. I mean, some local news used to do a bit of that, didn't they? I mean they-

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       Yeah.

   16. DMDouglas Murray9:36

       ... occasionally you'd have a story. A nice, nice local story, a bit of heartwarming stuff, some-

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:39

       Kitten up a tree gets rescued by the firemen, that kinda stuff.

   18. DMDouglas Murray9:41

       Yeah. Someone opens a shop, that sort of thing. You know, it's like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       Yeah. Yeah.

   20. DMDouglas Murray9:44

       ... it wouldn't make the national news-

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:45

       Right.

   22. DMDouglas Murray9:45

       ... but it's nice local stuff.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:47

       Yeah.

   24. DMDouglas Murray9:47

       I, uh, in, in my own lifetime everything seems to have gone wrong since 24 hour rolling news. I'm just sure of it. Like I saw, I saw it myself. It just-

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       Yeah.

   26. DMDouglas Murray9:54

       ... it, because of the need of the news to develop the story. I mean, I-

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:58

       Yeah.

   28. DMDouglas Murray9:58

       ... used to get this, uh, when I started off in journalism. People would phone you and say, "Um, uh, would you be willing to come on and call for X now that Y has happened?" And then-

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       Wow.

   30. DMDouglas Murray10:08

       ... so say, say somebody's ge- got into a scandal.
5. 12:06 – 22:24

   From hostile interviews to soft censorship: who gets a platform

   1. DMDouglas Murray12:06

      My favorite used to be, uh, when people like, uh, when I was still allowed on NPR, which I was a couple of books ago, um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:14

      You're not allowed on anymore?

   3. DMDouglas Murray12:15

      Nah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:15

      They reject you?

   5. DMDouglas Murray12:16

      Apparently there was... Oh no. Well, uh, a couple of books ago I was still allowed on. Had a very good, uh, ding-dong as we'd call it in Britain, with the, uh, presenter. It was good, it was good. It was like 10, 15 minutes-

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:25

      Which book was it where they cut you out? Was it-

   7. DMDouglas Murray12:27

      Uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:27

      ... Islam and the Strangest Death in Europe?

   9. DMDouglas Murray12:28

      The Strangest Death in Europe, they interviewed me on. And I remember because a friend of mine in America said I almost drove my car off the road (laughs) when they said you were coming on. I go, "No way."

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       Oh, wow.

   11. DMDouglas Murray12:38

       Uh, and then Madness of Crowds, I was told actually by somebody, uh, who knew somebody on the inside that they, when I suggested that they should interview me about the madness of crowds, uh, the pers-, the person who suggested it almost lost her job.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       Wow.

   13. DMDouglas Murray12:51

       So it was like, it go, it went that fast. And it's happened that fast-

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       That's-

   15. DMDouglas Murray12:54

       ... in my own life, in my own career. Um, but no, when, when you did used to sort of do NPR, there was always that, in that sort of media, there was always that sort of funny thing where the interviewer would interview about you about your book having not read it-

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:08

       Hm.

   17. DMDouglas Murray13:08

       ... and try to catch you out on it. (laughs) But-

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:12

       (laughs) Having not read it.

   19. DMDouglas Murray13:12

       What kind of-

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       So did they get questions that were, uh, prepared by the producers or something? Like how does-

   21. DMDouglas Murray13:17

       Barely even that. It was usually an attempt to prove you were a liar.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:22

       (laughs)

   23. DMDouglas Murray13:22

       So, a typical BBC interview would start with, "Um, so Douglas Barry, thank you so much for joining us this morning." Oh, you're clearly not that pleased, but, "Thank you so much for joining us this morning. And now you say in your latest book, bah." And then you'd say, "Well, I didn't quite say that." "Ah, so you're saying you didn't say that then." (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:35

       (laughs)

   25. DMDouglas Murray13:36

       So by (laughs) by the second question, you're in like this horrible mire. And then about like 90 seconds later, you're chucked out.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       Yes.

   27. DMDouglas Murray13:44

       And that was a normal interview-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:46

       Oh, God.

   29. DMDouglas Murray13:46

       ... until you and a few others came along.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:48

       Well, when the Cathy Newman Jordan Peterson interview-
6. 22:24 – 32:05

   The demand to opine on everything—and the cost of saying ‘I don’t know’

   1. DMDouglas Murray22:24

      And so obviously I, um, so my, my rule, wait, wait for this, my rule is not to talk about things I don't know about.

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      That's crazy.

   3. DMDouglas Murray22:31

      I know, it's crazy. Uh, now the, the pro- problem is-

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:32

      That's holding you back. (laughs)

   5. DMDouglas Murray22:35

      (laughs) You should talk confidently about almost everything-

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:39

      But-

   7. DMDouglas Murray22:39

      ... and just-

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:39

      ... but you know-

   9. DMDouglas Murray22:39

      ... let the chips fall where they may.

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:42

       (laughs)

   11. DMDouglas Murray22:43

       (laughs) But, you know, the thing is, enormous number of people don't follow that last rule.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       Yeah.

   13. DMDouglas Murray22:48

       I mean, they actually do think that they have to know about everything. So it is like... And then, there's other reasons why the last couple years have been so terrible-

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:56

       Yeah.

   15. DMDouglas Murray22:56

       ... for so many people, uh, uh, you know, has been this thing of like, "Well, what do you think about pandemics and what do you think about vaccines and what do you think about ivermectin and what do you think about BLM and what do you think about, uh, Trump and what do you think about election integrity and what do you think about Afghanistan and then, and then, and then-

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:08

       (laughs)

   17. DMDouglas Murray23:08

       ... China and then, and Ukraine and, and also ivermectin and, and then like ah!"

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:13

       (laughs)

   19. DMDouglas Murray23:13

       And...

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       (laughs) And also ivermectin.

   21. DMDouglas Murray23:16

       It's like, I don't know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:17

       I don't know.

   23. DMDouglas Murray23:18

       I... And very few people are willing to say, "It's just, that's not my, like, thing. I, I-"

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:24

       Yeah.

   25. DMDouglas Murray23:25

       "... I can't form a strong view on that."

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       It is interesting that you're expected to have deep knowledge about so many subjects.

   27. DMDouglas Murray23:33

       Yeah. Well, it's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:34

       Especially if you're publicly commenting on things.

   29. DMDouglas Murray23:37

       I know. I mean, uh, I, various people... I, I, I, I didn't write anything very much about the pandemic because as I occasionally said to critics, uh, I just, I'd not spent any of my life w- writing about pandemics or thinking about it before.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:52

       Right.
7. 32:05 – 42:18

   Pandemic whiplash, trust collapse, and election integrity as a social bomb

   1. DMDouglas Murray32:05

      It was so confusing, the whole thing, I thought, because, uh, after that first bit when you sort of thought, "Ah, okay, it's not what we thought it might first be."

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:13

      Right.

   3. DMDouglas Murray32:14

      Um, you know, there was that, there was that moment at the beginning of the pandemic which was almost, um... A friend of mine said, "It's almost romantic, isn't it?" And I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, any of us could die at any moment." And I thought, "It's true." There's, there's like a certain kind of wow.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:29

      Yeah.

   5. DMDouglas Murray32:30

      Like everything, the whole atmosphere changes in the world. Everything's put in a different perspective. Uh, and then that sort of moment of realizing it wasn't that, but it was hard to tell when that turn happened.

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:43

      Mm.

   7. DMDouglas Murray32:43

      And in the meantime, we were all, as I say, isolated. We lost all our social antennae. And then a whole set of crazy things happened which w- w- I mean, would derange large numbers of people. Um, you know, I mean, I think the fastest whiplash one was, uh, the movement from "Everybody stay in your houses" to "Everyone go out onto the streets and protest against racism."

   8. JRJoe Rogan33:06

      (laughs) Yeah.

   9. DMDouglas Murray33:08

      I mean, that was a, that was a, that was a whiplash. Even if, even if you didn't completely follow the logic of people who said, "The pandemic is the pandemic," and then who said, "No, racism is the pandemic," it was like, "Oh, it's like pandemic season."

   10. JRJoe Rogan33:20

       (laughs)

   11. DMDouglas Murray33:20

       We just get to find different pandemics, and what's the next one? Even if you didn't do that, um, you had the moment of watching and thinking, "Okay, hang on, thousands of people are out on the streets and they're packed-

   12. JRJoe Rogan33:32

       Screaming.

   13. DMDouglas Murray33:33

       ... in, screaming. And they're d- and they're not masked. And if this is what we're being told it is, this is gonna cause a massive spike."

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:43

       Yeah.

   15. DMDouglas Murray33:43

       And then that didn't happen. And so we were all like doubly, "Hmm."

   16. JRJoe Rogan33:47

       "Hmm."

   17. DMDouglas Murray33:49

       And, and I think that's one of the reasons why now, I mean, we're in this situation where, I mean, I don't know about you, but, I mean, among my friends, like, people, there are people who'd believe almost anything now. I mean, you know. My, my favorite are, are friends who I know have put illegal drugs in their body.

   18. JRJoe Rogan34:07

       (laughs)

   19. DMDouglas Murray34:07

       I don't want to shock you, Joe. I don't want to shock you. Friends who I know have put illegal substances in their body who have suddenly become, "All my body is a temple" about the vaccines.

   20. JRJoe Rogan34:15

       (laughs)

   21. DMDouglas Murray34:16

       "I am not having this."

   22. JRJoe Rogan34:18

       (laughs)

   23. DMDouglas Murray34:18

       "This hasn't been through enough tests." I go, "What?" (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan34:21

       Right. I'm like-

   25. DMDouglas Murray34:22

       I go, "Other than that-"

   26. JRJoe Rogan34:22

       You're doing heroin. (laughs)

   27. DMDouglas Murray34:24

       (fingers snapping) Fucking... How well tested is that?

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:29

       (laughs) Yeah. Do you have a s- uh, one of those test kits they use at raves?

   29. DMDouglas Murray34:34

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:34

       Like, what are you doing when you get your drugs...
8. 42:18 – 45:28

   Hunter Biden laptop, tech censorship, and institutional politicization

   1. DMDouglas Murray42:18

      And, and, and, and again, the thing is, it happened for all those reasons. I mean, like, I still can't get over this thing of the, um, of Twitter and Facebook and co-silencing the New York Post. And, uh, the ... And what I can't get over most about it is the intelligence chiefs who signed the letter saying-

   2. JRJoe Rogan42:34

      Yes.

   3. DMDouglas Murray42:35

      ... that the story was Russian disinformation. 'Cause in my opinion, every single one of those intelligence chiefs should be, um, lose their pension. They should be, uh, you know, lose their reputations, whatever can happen. They should never ... You should never have members of the intelligence community becoming political actors like that, and they did. So that's why nobody trusts them.

   4. JRJoe Rogan42:56

      And there seems n- to be no repercussions.

   5. DMDouglas Murray42:57

      There's no repercussion. They-

   6. JRJoe Rogan42:59

      Yeah.

   7. DMDouglas Murray43:00

      This, this, whatever it was, 80 people from the NSA and the CIA and so on, they all gave their, their view about something they knew nothing about to help Joe Biden win the election. It's like, it's like ... That is totally corrupt.

   8. JRJoe Rogan43:10

      Do you think that the strategy is to deny it until the news cycle has passed, you know? And that they denied it for ... It was a good solid year and a half, right?

   9. DMDouglas Murray43:19

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan43:19

       And then they started admitting it.

   11. DMDouglas Murray43:21

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan43:22

       Um, so y- y- in that year and a half, so many new issues have come to the forefront that it's almost impossible to give all of your attention to this Hunter Biden laptop story, because that lapstop- that laptop story was pertinent at the election time. Like, when-

   13. DMDouglas Murray43:38

       Yes. That would have been when it would have hit.

   14. JRJoe Rogan43:40

       Yes. And that would ... It would have been a giant issue, but because of the fact-

   15. DMDouglas Murray43:44

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan43:44

       ... that they did lock it down, I mean, they really did manipulate the elections by doing that.

   17. DMDouglas Murray43:48

       Yeah. That, that's the problem, is that when people say there was a manipulation, there was, at that level, among-

   18. JRJoe Rogan43:52

       Yeah.

   19. DMDouglas Murray43:53

       I mean, even if you don't want to get into everything else.

   20. JRJoe Rogan43:55

       That's a big level.

   21. DMDouglas Murray43:55

       Like, that's a big level. That's like all your tech platforms-

   22. JRJoe Rogan44:00

       Right.

   23. DMDouglas Murray44:00

       ... deciding to assist one candidate, and a massive amount of your intelligence community a- a- assisting that candidate in order to stop getting out the story of corruption in what is now the first family.

   24. JRJoe Rogan44:12

       And it's being released by one of the oldest newspapers-

   25. DMDouglas Murray44:16

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan44:16

       ... in America-

   27. DMDouglas Murray44:17

       The oldest.

   28. JRJoe Rogan44:17

       The New York Post.

   29. DMDouglas Murray44:17

       Yes, I know. It's the New York Post. I- I don't-

   30. JRJoe Rogan44:18

       It's incredible.
9. 45:28 – 50:54

   Transgender flashpoints: misgendering rules, prisons, and elite language games

   1. DMDouglas Murray45:28

      Yeah. There was a c- a case I had recently. The, uh, the trans, uh, swimmer, um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:32

      Leah Thomas?

   3. DMDouglas Murray45:33

      Leah Thomas.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:34

      Yeah.

   5. DMDouglas Murray45:34

      Uh, um, Leah Thomas, when ... If you ... On ins- on Twitter, if you said, if you misgendered you got-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:42

      Yes.

   7. DMDouglas Murray45:42

      ... you got suspended.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:43

      Deadnamed.

   9. DMDouglas Murray45:44

      Dead- deadnamed.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:44

       You don't get suspended; you get banned.

   11. DMDouglas Murray45:46

       What's her name? Leah Thomas was born ...

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       I don't know.

   13. DMDouglas Murray45:49

       William Thomas.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Is that what it is?

   15. DMDouglas Murray45:50

       I think, yeah. Yeah, 'cause I- I thought-

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       I don't even notice that that was a real thing.

   17. DMDouglas Murray45:54

       It's born William Thomas-

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       I just only see her as Leah forever.

   19. DMDouglas Murray45:57

       Of course you do.

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       Yes.

   21. DMDouglas Murray45:58

       Oh, well, I, I thought that I could get myself banned from Twitter quite fast if I said the following. I was very tempted, but I just decided I need to keep my Twitter account. I kind of wanted to say, "Look, Leah Thomas isn't a woman. I can tell you actually, I think she's quite hot."

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       (laughs) well, we were trying-

   23. DMDouglas Murray46:14

       That would have been-

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       ... to find out whether or not this is true, but she still prefers ladies and has a penis.

   25. DMDouglas Murray46:22

       Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:24

       And has s- You know about the transgender inmate?

   27. DMDouglas Murray46:25

       She definitely has a penis 'cause ... Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       You know the inmate story?

   29. DMDouglas Murray46:27

       She definitely has a penis. Fucking hell. I just did it, didn't I?

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:30

       And that was wild thing.
10. 50:54 – 1:05:56

    When societies obsess over gender: demoralization and compelled assent

    1. JRJoe Rogan50:54

       There's a penis involved. Like this is, we're talking not... You had the best take on this and I repeat it all the time. And you have said that in the, when a civilization is in a downward spiral, when it's the end of the civilization, they become obsessed with gender.

    2. DMDouglas Murray51:11

       Well, I, I, I, yeah, I have said... uh, uh, I owe the insight to Camille Paglia, who I think made it first, um, that yes, that there's a sort of weird, um, fluidity issue. I think, I, I, I, I, I think it is, it is, um, I think it's a case, there are certain, there are certain, like, basic things which, if they start to fall apart, you can feel how everything else can as well.

    3. JRJoe Rogan51:33

       Mm.

    4. DMDouglas Murray51:34

       And, you know, like, sex is like the first thing we know. I mean, like, boys and girls.

    5. JRJoe Rogan51:41

       Right.

    6. DMDouglas Murray51:41

       Uh, it's not gender assigned at birth, it's not, uh, it's not like a bigoted doctor. It's just, like, there are boys and there are girls.

    7. JRJoe Rogan51:49

       Right.

    8. DMDouglas Murray51:49

       And, uh, tiny, tiny numbers of people who it's less easily determined, but that's not anything to do with trans. And, um, and yeah, and, and if you take that away, I think it is true that there is a sort of demoralization, a... Everything becomes murkier. As I say, just as like an average day's news becomes... You feel... I don't... I feel like almost anything can be, can be shoved on you if you, if you agree to that. And, or don't, or pretend you don't notice it, that's the thing.

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:23

       Mm.

    10. DMDouglas Murray52:23

        I think we talked about this before in relation to the communist era in Eastern Europe. The, the, that, where that's sort of part of the point that you, you... The humiliation of going along with things you know aren't true-

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:35

        Mm.

    12. DMDouglas Murray52:35

        ... ends up having an effect down the road because you just nod anything along.

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:41

        Yeah. I have a friend who grew up Mormon, and one of the things she said to me once was really interesting. She said, uh, 'cause she left the church and she said, "I'm, I'm really susceptible to bullshit. It's a real problem."

    14. DMDouglas Murray52:53

        Wow.

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:54

        And so she started, like, she had gotten mixed up with some, like, yogi-type people and guru-type people.

    16. DMDouglas Murray53:01

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan53:02

        And people that were running, like, these weird little sort of like self-help things that were very cult-like. And she goes, "I have a real problem, I'm very-"

    18. DMDouglas Murray53:09

        Wow.

    19. JRJoe Rogan53:09

        "... susceptible." She goes, "Because I, I grew up agreeing to things that are nonsensical and be- because of that, because I had just, like, given all of my..." You know, wh- when you, when you just like, all of your opinions are decided by a church and the church-

    20. DMDouglas Murray53:25

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan53:25

        ... was written by a 14-year-old boy in 1820-

    22. DMDouglas Murray53:27

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan53:27

        ... like, it's, it's kind of nuts.

    24. DMDouglas Murray53:29

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan53:29

        And that-

    26. DMDouglas Murray53:30

        He'd already had a conviction for fraud, I think.

    27. JRJoe Rogan53:32

        Yeah. (laughs) He was already full of shit at 14.

    28. DMDouglas Murray53:35

        (laughs) That was a giveaway.

    29. JRJoe Rogan53:37

        Yeah, yeah.

    30. DMDouglas Murray53:37

        That was a definite giveaway.
11. 1:05:56 – 1:14:51

    ‘The War on the West’: anti-racism industry, hereditary guilt, and moral panic

    1. DMDouglas Murray1:05:56

       You should talk about The War on the West. (laughs)

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:06:02

       deep inhale ] What about it?

    3. DMDouglas Murray1:06:02

       Have you read it?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:06:03

       No, I haven't.

    5. DMDouglas Murray1:06:03

       Have you not?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:06:04

       No.

    7. DMDouglas Murray1:06:04

       Oh, God. I was gonna test you.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:06:05

       I'm going to.

    9. DMDouglas Murray1:06:05

       I was gonna test you on it.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:06:07

        Oh, were you going to?

    11. DMDouglas Murray1:06:07

        Mm-mm.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:06:07

        I would never lie.

    13. DMDouglas Murray1:06:09

        I'm so glad you didn't lie.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

        Oh my God, no.

    15. DMDouglas Murray1:06:11

        Authors can always tell very easily if-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:06:14

        I'm sure.

    17. DMDouglas Murray1:06:15

        Like whenever anyone pretends-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:16

        Um...

    19. DMDouglas Murray1:06:16

        ... to have read your book and you know they haven't, you're like, "This is not hard..."

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:20

        I've read The Strange Death of Europe-

    21. DMDouglas Murray1:06:21

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:21

        ... and I read Madness of the Crowds.

    23. DMDouglas Murray1:06:23

        Right.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:23

        I will read that 100%.

    25. DMDouglas Murray1:06:24

        I'm very pleased to hear it.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:25

        I love your work.

    27. DMDouglas Murray1:06:26

        Well, thank you.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:26

        I'm very excited that you're out there, because I, like I said earlier, I think, um, it's, it's so important that someone's courageous in th- these times where there's certain taboo subjects or there's certain subjects that you're not allowed to objectively, uh, discuss.

    29. DMDouglas Murray1:06:40

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:41

        You have to follow, like, these, uh, ideological patterns.

Episode duration: 2:57:48