Joe Rogan Experience #1816 - Gad Saad

1. 0:00 – 1:28

   Gad’s 86-pound transformation: blunt honesty, better energy, and motivation

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. GSGad Saad0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) You look like you've lost a large child from your body.

   4. GSGad Saad0:16

      (laughs) 86 pounds.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      (whooshing sound) That's right, that's a large child.

   6. GSGad Saad0:20

      Now, I know that you wanna take credit for it because-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      Fat shaming works.

   8. GSGad Saad0:24

      Exactly.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      (laughs)

   10. GSGad Saad0:25

       But I can't give you all the credit.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       No, you-

   12. GSGad Saad0:27

       And, and then-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       ... you deserve all the credit.

   14. GSGad Saad0:28

       Thank you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       I didn't do anything.

   16. GSGad Saad0:30

       So, because-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       I just was concerned for your well-being, and so I was just saying, if you really are saying that you wanna get healthy, and you really are saying that you wanna play soccer and do all these things again, like you gotta change your diet.

   18. GSGad Saad0:42

       A friend has to be brutally honest with you.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Yeah, well, that's a hard one. That's a hard one because nobody wants to hear they're gaining weight-

   20. GSGad Saad0:49

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       ... or they've gained weight or that they have to make radical changes to their life.

   22. GSGad Saad0:53

       I'm actually at the lowest weight since, I think, '88.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       That's incredible.

   24. GSGad Saad0:57

       I'm size waist 33.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       How much better do you feel?

   26. GSGad Saad1:01

       Phenomenal. Outrageous.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Isn't it incredible?

   28. GSGad Saad1:03

       It's unbelievable.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Like, if they could give you that in a pill, just the feeling, how it feels to be 86 pounds lighter?

   30. GSGad Saad1:09

       Exactly.
2. 1:28 – 7:33

   The system that worked: steps, calorie tracking, weigh-ins, and ditching all-or-nothing thinking

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:28

      What did you do, uh, other than exercise and like what did... Like how did you shift your diet?

   2. GSGad Saad1:33

      So, so two things. Number one, 15 to 20,000 steps a day no matter what.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:40

      No matter what?

   4. GSGad Saad1:40

      So it's been almost now two and a half years that I haven't done a single day of less than 10,000 steps. Now the steps could be treadmill, it could be walking outside, it could be running vigorously on the, you know, out- or whatever, it could be biking. But I always have with me this, actually I'll show-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:56

      Is it one of those pedometers?

   6. GSGad Saad1:58

      It's one of those pedometer things, and uh-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:59

      Mm-hmm.

   8. GSGad Saad1:59

      ... I'm obsessive about maintaining... So just by having this clear objective that I have to reach makes it that no matter what, I've gotta get off, you know, off the proverbial couch and walk around. It's minus 20 in Montreal. I'm walking outside until I reach that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:15

      Wow.

   10. GSGad Saad2:16

       So that's... But I was always quite physically active. Of course, much of your weight loss comes from keeping this guy closed, right?

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       Yeah. That's the thing that people need to re- It's very, very, very, very difficult to exercise your way to weight loss.

   12. GSGad Saad2:29

       Exactly. And so what I did, uh, so my wife who's here, who you've known her for many years, she's a amazing woman. She turned into the diet Gestapo. She's-

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:39

       (laughs)

   14. GSGad Saad2:39

       (laughs) She's got, she's got this My Fitness Pal. They're getting, I guess, free publicity on the number one show in the world. So through my Fit- Fitness Pal, she would, she enters till today every single thing that goes into this gorgeous body.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       Wow.

   16. GSGad Saad2:53

       I mean, l- so at the end of the day, she says, "Don't have any snacks. You're at 1727 and you were supposed to get under 1700." So by having that, uh, feedback loop that's always keeping you in check, plus the- so the third thing is I weigh myself once a week so that the auto corrective mechanism comes in not when I've now, when I'm now 227 in terms of weight. But if I've come to Texas and then I go on the scale and I've gained three pounds, well, now I need, I know that I need to correct the following week.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Mm-hmm.

   18. GSGad Saad3:26

       So these little changes, I mean, there's nothing magical, just doing that. I guess if I can add a fourth thing, I removed the all or nothing mindset. In the past, I mean, I, the highest weight I reached, Joe... Can you, and it's, you won't offend me. C- can you, from knowing me for many years, do you know how heavy I got? I guess you can calculate but-

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:44

       Well, if I look at you now, you look like you weigh about 165 pounds. Am I right?

   20. GSGad Saad3:49

       Yeah, exa- I'm 170.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       Ah, see I'm pretty close.

   22. GSGad Saad3:52

       I'm 170. Very good.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       I'm good at weight classes. A lot of years calling fights. (laughs)

   24. GSGad Saad3:55

       I guess, yeah, exactly.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       Um, and I would imagine the heaviest you got was probably close to 300 pounds.

   26. GSGad Saad4:03

       256.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       Yeah, okay.

   28. GSGad Saad4:04

       So that's the 86 pounds.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:06

       Yeah.

   30. GSGad Saad4:06

       So 256 for the next-
3. 7:33 – 9:51

   Diet specifics: low-carb approach, typical meals, and aiming for maintenance

   1. GSGad Saad7:33

      So I, I guess the fifth element of when you asked me what are the, how do I lose weight, I also removed all the carbs, almost all of it. Once in a while, I, you know, have a bit of something. But-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:42

      So what is a daily meal for you like?

   3. GSGad Saad7:44

      So breakfast, I may have one or two boiled eggs. Lunch might be, my wife and I go to the Peruvian rotisserie place that we probably go to four times in a week, which I'll get a quarter of a chicken with a bit of coleslaw, vinegary coleslaw, not the creamy coleslaw.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:01

      Mm-hmm.

   5. GSGad Saad8:02

      I might have one or two snacks around mid-afternoon, which might be things like, uh, 100 grams of frozen raspberries, uh, a little yogurt of 70 calories. And then dinner will be a, a fantastic salad. But if you looked at the volume, you'd think, "My God, how are you losing so much weight?" But it only has, you know, five, six ounces of protein, but it's voluminous-

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. GSGad Saad8:23

      ... so that I feel full. I may have another, you know, uh, little snack at eight o'clock, 70, 80 calories. And I've reached my 15, 16, 1700 calories.

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:33

      Hmm.

   9. GSGad Saad8:33

      And I'm Mr. Slim Man.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       Are you trying to lose more or are you gonna maintain this?

   11. GSGad Saad8:38

       S- yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       'Cause you look great.

   13. GSGad Saad8:39

       Th- thank you. That's very kind. Uh, I just wanna see a one and a six.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       Ah.

   15. GSGad Saad8:43

       I n- I haven't reached it. I've gotten to 170.4. Last time I checked, I was 171. I just need to see a steady state of, you know, 165, 167. And now, the actuarial tables, by the way, for a guy my height, they put me at 155, which strikes me as a bit, uh-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:02

       That's pretty thin.

   17. GSGad Saad9:03

       That's pretty thin.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:04

       That, yeah, I don't... Those, those tables, the BMI tables are s- they don't account for mass-

   19. GSGad Saad9:10

       Exactly.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       ... and weight lifting. And also, you did soccer for many, many years, so you have strong legs.

   21. GSGad Saad9:14

       E- exactly, yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       Yeah, I think that, um, one thing that can help you, I don't know if you've done intermittent fasting. Have you tried that?

   23. GSGad Saad9:21

       Uh, so what kind of window? 16, 8?

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:24

       I like 16. Yeah.

   25. GSGad Saad9:25

       Y-

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       I like 16.

   27. GSGad Saad9:26

       So I've done that for three days.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:29

       Mm-hmm.

   29. GSGad Saad9:30

       Just because I'm trying to recover from having gone on a trip. But I'm guessing you're suggesting that I do it for a longer period, correct?

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:37

       Well, I just, that's what I do.
4. 9:51 – 13:58

   Discipline as a life strategy: “Turning Pro” and daily creative output

   1. GSGad Saad9:51

      Are you as disciplined in other aspects of your life as you are in your weight management? I mean, certainly in your work ethic you are. But other things or, or do you, your punctilious nature only manifests itself in a few domains and you're completely carefree in others?

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:06

      No. No, I can't. I, I, uh, this is me. This is me with everything.

   3. GSGad Saad10:12

      Your exact thing.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:12

      Yeah. I mean, I take days off. I relax. I, I, I can, I know how to relax.

   5. GSGad Saad10:17

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:17

      I'm good at that. But I'm, I think discipline is a very important thing for a person. I think it's a very important thing to, uh, b- take care of the thing. It's like, uh, not taking care of the things causes you so much more pain and anxiety than taking care of the things.

   7. GSGad Saad10:34

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:34

      So take care of the things, no matter what it is, whether it's your body or your work or whatever you gotta do. F- fucking off is not good for you. It's like-

   9. GSGad Saad10:41

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:41

       ... you need, if you're a professional, just do your w- And you should be a professional with your body, be a prof- Like, there's a, there's a great book called, uh, g- I think it's called Going Pro. It's Steven Pressfield, the same guy who wrote The War of Art. I'm in the middle of his second book, which I don't like as much as The War of Art but Turning Pro. And it, the whole idea is about approaching your work, like, you know, you decide that you're a professional.

   11. GSGad Saad11:05

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       You show up when you're supposed to show up. You, you, you put in the time. And this is in regards, he's a writer. But it's, I think that's it's applicable to almost anything when you're a painter or, you know, like yourself, uh, an intellectual. You could be whatever, whatever it is. With, whether you're dealing with your physical body, whether you're dealing with hobbies. Just do the, do the work. Do, put in th- the discipline.

   13. GSGad Saad11:24

       So I can, I can apply what you're saying to being an author.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:28

       Mm-hmm.

   15. GSGad Saad11:29

       When you try to write a book... L- look, I do two types of authoring. I write academic papers, but those papers have a very clear template, right? You start with an intro, then you've got, uh, the hypotheses, the literature review, the methodology, the results. So the content is not a priori determined, but the template is clear. When you write a book, you're going on an open-ended journey. I mean, you, you do have a outline, you have a book prospectus of the things you wanna say, but how you fill these in, you have no idea. And so one of the things that I tell people when they write to me and say, "H-" you know, "How did you become a successful author?" Discipline. Every single day, rain or shine, I decide that I have to write, no matter what, 300 words.They may be great words, they may be things that I edit. But there is no, "I'm not feeling good today." There is no, "My throat is itching. I feel a bit down." No matter what, I'm writing 300 words. And so, if you have that grit, I think it's a path to success.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       Yeah. Pressfield talks about that very same approach, and he describes the muse as, like, a thing that will show up when you show up.

   17. GSGad Saad12:30

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       That if you show up every day with respect to the muse, he even says a prayer to the muse. I don't remember if he gives you the prayer, tells you what the prayer is, but he'll sit down and say a thing, like out loud, to, uh, like, you know, to his laptop before he sits down and starts to write, and then he'll write. And he will write for three hours no matter what. And he feels like that at three hours, he starts to fade off in his creativity, in his, his energy for just the whole process. Sort of wanes to the point where it's not valuable to keep going.

   19. GSGad Saad13:02

       Right. You know, there is nothing more orgasmic to me, other than sex literally, but, uh, than, than the, the process of creation, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       Mm-hmm.

   21. GSGad Saad13:13

       There is a day when I open the laptop where that Word document has zero syllables struck, and 12 months later, 16 months later, there is an entire book that's written that hopefully is going to be consumed by many thousands of people, many of whom are gonna send selfies with... And that process is, is, is addictive. And so, uh, y- you know, a lot of academics don't write, uh, books. They, they tend to focus on the peer-reviewed, uh, you know, scientific papers.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:43

       Well, it doesn't have to be entertaining. That's the difference between a, a peer-reviewed paper and what you write.

   23. GSGad Saad13:47

       Which, by the way, I wanna give you-

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       Oh, thank you.

   25. GSGad Saad13:49

       ... a copy of The Parasitic Mind with a autograph. Please don't sell it on eBay.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:53

       Oh. I will not sell it on eBay.

   27. GSGad Saad13:55

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:55

       Thank you very much.

   29. GSGad Saad13:56

       Cheers. Uh, enjoy it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       All right.

5. 13:58 – 17:29

   From body positivity to ‘mind parasites’: when ideology replaces reality

   1. GSGad Saad13:58

      Please read it. I think a lot of the woke stuff that you talk about is all covered in this book, given-

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:02

      And you covered it years ago too, by the way.

   3. GSGad Saad14:04

      I covered it, uh, v-

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:05

      You were one of the first people to sound the alarm many years ago-

   5. GSGad Saad14:09

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:09

      ... that there was a real problem, both in academia and the way students are b- interacting with ideas and the way people online were interacting with ideas.

   7. GSGad Saad14:17

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:17

      And you were, uh, a long time ago saying that there was something going on with people, where these, these, uh, essentially mind parasites.

   9. GSGad Saad14:28

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:28

       It's, uh, really is what it's like.

   11. GSGad Saad14:29

       It really is.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:30

       Because they d- and, uh, they're, they're actually a contagion. Like, they spread throughout communities, and people accept them as standard.

   13. GSGad Saad14:38

       Exactly.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:38

       And it becomes very hard to debate ideas, and it becomes very hard to talk about subjects objectively and honestly, because some things are triggering and some things are offensive and some things are... And it's just like, they can just decide, like, what cannot be discussed, because these things are offensive. Just like the whole idea of fatphobia. Like, I was watching this video today, and this woman was talking about how y- people going on a diet, and she was saying, "You don't even know yourself, but going on a diet, you're being fatphobic."

   15. GSGad Saad15:13

       (laughs) That's right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:13

       And let me break this down. And she breaks this down with this, like, pseudo-intellectual nonsense, 'cause I guess she was an educator. And so here you got this sloppy, overweight, lazy educator telling people that it's good to be lazy, because if you're not lazy, and if you try to become healthy, then you're a bigot.

   17. GSGad Saad15:31

       That's right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       You're a fatphobe.

   19. GSGad Saad15:33

       Body posi- positivity, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       Yeah. It's nonsense.

   21. GSGad Saad15:35

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       Body positivity is stupid. We are the only ti- this is the only time in, in this world we're living in in 2022, this era from like, whatever it was, maybe 1970, 1980 on, where poor people are fat.

   23. GSGad Saad15:49

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       This is crazy.

   25. GSGad Saad15:50

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Where it's not just wealthy people who are just sitting there getting fed grapes while they're lounging, it's poor people.

   27. GSGad Saad15:58

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       Everybody's eating bad food.

   29. GSGad Saad15:59

       But, y- you know, so earlier you asked me about, how did I lose all the weight? Well, it's a daily grind to be able to lose it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Mm-hmm.
6. 17:29 – 20:40

   Naomi Wolf, Twitter suspensions, and the ‘Ministry of Truth’ fear

   1. GSGad Saad17:29

      Do you remember the book The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf? Do you, do you know that book?

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:33

      I do remember the, about that book. I did not read it.

   3. GSGad Saad17:36

      So she, she's kind of come around a bit, because she's now been, uh, more on the rational side of the whole COVID thing. Uh, you know, more nuanced, more tempered. She-

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:45

      Isn't she recently suspended from Twitter?

   5. GSGad Saad17:48

      Was she? I didn't know that. Naomi-

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:49

      See if Naomi Wolf was suspended from Twitter. I believe, uh, I might be right.

   7. GSGad Saad17:55

      Is, is Jamie the m- part of the Ministry of Truth? Because-

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:59

      Jamie's on the ball.

   9. GSGad Saad18:00

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       Don't worry about Jamie.

   11. GSGad Saad18:01

       Uh-

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:02

       The Ministry of Truth? Is that the-

   13. GSGad Saad18:03

       Is that... Yeah, I've heard of it. The-

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       ... Biden administration's... Yeah, here it is.

   15. GSGad Saad18:06

       Oh, she was suspended. There you go.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Look at this.

   17. GSGad Saad18:07

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:07

       "Suspends Naomi Wolf after tweeting-

   19. GSGad Saad18:09

       (coughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:09

       ... anti-vaccine misinformation."

   21. GSGad Saad18:11

       There you go.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:12

       Yeah, but this is on the BBC. What is the actual anti-vaccine misinformation she t- What did she say?

   23. GSGad Saad18:18

       Oh, the beauty myth. There it is.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:19

       Mm-hmm.

   25. GSGad Saad18:19

       That's what I was gonna talk about, so...

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:20

       Yeah. This is her. So what did she say? She was duped into tweeting a made-up quote of an image of an American adult film star dressed up as a doctor. Uh, most recently, she tweeted that the urine and feces of people who had received the jab need to be separated from general sewage supplies while tests were done to measure its impact on non-vaccinated people through drinking water. What? She said that? Has she gone crazy?

   27. GSGad Saad18:44

       I- I- I don't know about that.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:45

       Dude, how are they, like... She claimed that vaccines were a software platform that could receive uploads. (laughs) Oh, Jesus, Naomi. This is what happens when you don't lose weight quick enough.

   29. GSGad Saad18:56

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:57

       Uh, she also compared Dr. Anthony Fauci to Satan to her more than 140,000 followers.
7. 20:40 – 25:32

   Beauty, mating markets, and celebrity dynamics (Depp/Heard as a case study)

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:40

      It's, um ... The problem with beauty is that it's not fair. That's what the problem is.

   2. GSGad Saad20:46

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:46

      So when someone says, you know, the beauty myth and this is, and they know, and men who want you to be held to certain standards of beauty, those men are bad people, it's like, no. It's a tyranny. It's a short-lived tyranny, a tyranny of beauty, and it is reality.

   4. GSGad Saad21:02

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:02

      And you know who doesn't talk like that? Really hot women.

   6. GSGad Saad21:05

      (laughs) Exactly.

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:06

      It's fucked. It's just-

   8. GSGad Saad21:07

      But-

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:07

      They are a drug. When you're around a truly gorgeous woman, it's, it's stunning how people fall in line and they don't know what to do and they stumble over their words and men, uh, uh, like insult each other and, and, uh, like in a sort of a joking way to try to get a one-up socially-

   10. GSGad Saad21:25

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:25

       ... over each other in front of the woman. It's bizarre to watch.

   12. GSGad Saad21:29

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:29

       It's bizarre.

   14. GSGad Saad21:29

       But here's the thing. So to give some people who may not be gorgeous some, some light at the end of the tunnel, mating is a compensatory process. What do I mean by that? Uh, I'm not six foot four. Height is a beautiful trait, but I can make up for my lack of height by being charming, by being funny, by being exceptionally good-looking, which is just the genetic lottery, by having academic status and being an accomplished person. So I can compensate for traits on which I'm lacking, in this case, physical height. And so there are ways by which you can improve your lot on the mating market.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:09

       Men can.

   16. GSGad Saad22:11

       So you're right that physical beauty, I- well, we talked ab- earlier about being 500 pounds and somebody telling you, "But y- people should love you the way you are."

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:21

       Mm-hmm.

   18. GSGad Saad22:21

       All other things equal, any person who doesn't weigh 500 pounds and instead weighs within the normal range is gonna improve their looks. You're not gonna turn into Beyonce-

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       Yeah.

   20. GSGad Saad22:29

       ... if you don't have the fa- facial morphology to be gorgeous, but we can all improve even on things that seem to be immutable, no?

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Well, we certainly can. And you know, men are certainly attracted to women's personalities and certainly attracted to their energy and, you know, how they approach life. But the, the unfortunate truth about sexual attraction is-

   22. GSGad Saad22:49

       Of course.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:49

       ... it's largely a, a body shape and, you know, uh, the way, the structure of the face-

   24. GSGad Saad22:56

       Sure.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:56

       ... the geometry of the face. It's, um, it's, I mean, clearly some people are repulsive because of their personality, even though they're gorgeous.

   26. GSGad Saad23:03

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:03

       That's true too. But i- it's stunning. Like y- I'm sure you're watching this Johnny Depp, Amber Heard trial.

   28. GSGad Saad23:10

       I watched a bit of it, yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:11

       There's no way a fat woman could get away with what that lady did to him.

   30. GSGad Saad23:15

       (laughs)
8. 25:32 – 39:50

   Hollywood culture: ideological conformity, gatekeepers, and who stays ‘normal’

   1. JRJoe Rogan25:32

      That's just what it is, man. It, the, the, that business ... First of all, you gotta think that the reason why someone wants to do that in the first place-

   2. GSGad Saad25:39

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:40

      ... the reason why someone wants that exorbitant amount of attention, is they didn't get enough when they were young.

   4. GSGad Saad25:44

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:44

      Almost always. And then, on t- Or, you know, they obviously r- couldn't possibly realize the perks, and maybe that's why they do it. But for the most part, it's someone that's making up for something that was missing in their childhood. Then you get them in this bizarre system, where you have to audition for everything. So, you have to be chosen. So, you have to m- bend your personality to whatever you think.

   6. GSGad Saad26:06

      And it's not on objective metrics, right? It's not, there, there isn't a clear A, B, C, that would result in me being picked. It's the vagaries of the casting director.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:16

      Yeah.

   8. GSGad Saad26:16

      That-

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:16

      There's also an ideology attached to it.

   10. GSGad Saad26:17

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:18

       You must be progressive and liberal. You must be.

   12. GSGad Saad26:19

       You must be progressive and liberal.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       If you walk in there with a fucking Make America Great Again hat on ...

   14. GSGad Saad26:23

       It's not gonna work.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:23

       ... an Turning Point USA T-shirt-

   16. GSGad Saad26:25

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:25

       ... they're, they'll kick you right out of the fucking room. Like, you, you literally won't be allowed to speak.

   18. GSGad Saad26:30

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:31

       If you went a- If, if you went into the average casting agency, if you were the best, if you were Daniel Day-Lewis, and he walked in with a MAGA hat on-

   20. GSGad Saad26:38

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:39

       ... they would tell him to get the fuck out of here. They want, they don't want you. Because it's, there's a gatekeeper role-

   22. GSGad Saad26:44

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       ... that's a function of the casting directors and the producers and executives. It's, it's part of the weirdness of Hollywood. So, that accentuates the crazy in these people.

   24. GSGad Saad26:53

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:53

       So, you have crazy people, and then they're massively insecure already. And then you have them be chosen. So then, they bend their personality around. It's like, you know, water finds its way.

   26. GSGad Saad27:05

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan27:05

       You know, you gotta figure out-

   28. GSGad Saad27:06

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan27:06

       ... what do I have to do to get in? And then, you know. Look, I have been exposed to that, I've been around that for decades, 'cause I've lived in Hollywood for a long time. But now that I'm out here, I realize how much better it is to not be around that kind of a community. 'Cause it shapes everything around you, 'cause you don't realize it. Whether you realize it or not, a lot of the people that are executives in these, uh, entertainment companies wanted to be actors, but they just didn't have the talent.

   30. GSGad Saad27:31

       Right.
9. 39:50 – 51:14

   Free speech, ‘settled science,’ and ethics: consequentialism vs deontological truth

   1. JRJoe Rogan39:50

      Yeah. There was a, there was a politician in Canada that just said that science is settled and he's gonna mandate, if he wins, COVID vaccines for young children, and it's gonna be a part of their normal vaccination process, like measles, mumps-

   2. GSGad Saad40:05

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan40:05

      ... rubella.

   4. GSGad Saad40:05

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan40:05

      Required vaccines. Well, that's not, that's n- science is not settled.

   6. GSGad Saad40:08

      Exactly.

   7. JRJoe Rogan40:09

      It's not only is it not settled, there's clear evidence that it's more dangerous.

   8. GSGad Saad40:12

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan40:13

      And, like, you're looking at children getting COVID, it's not dangerous. Like, if you really want the settled science, you're gonna encourage people to lose weight-

   10. GSGad Saad40:21

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan40:21

       ... 'cause that's the settled science.

   12. GSGad Saad40:22

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan40:23

       The settled science is obesity's a massive factor, a massive factor, a risk factor, in, in COVID outcomes.

   14. GSGad Saad40:30

       Yeah, I mean, uh, this kind of points back to what we were talking about earlier with, uh, getting, uh, Naomi Wolf off Twitter, this idea of a Ministry of Truth. Look, science, as, as I think you well know and your listeners know, the beauty of science is that it truly is, uh, epistemologically humble in that anything that is settled in science is settled with an asterisk. It is provisionally true. If in 100 years someone comes up with compelling evidence that suggests that the theory of evolution is false, then with complete humility, we will go back to the drawing board, right? But so to speak of settled science is, is literally an epistemological attack on the scientific method. Nothing is ever settled, even though we now have un- un- overwhelming evidence. I mean, short of gravity, there's no theory that is as, uh, you know, supported as the theory of evolution. But I always keep in mind open that if tomorrow somebody were to bring down the whole edifice of Darwin, then that's what it is. So this idea that there, uh, there someone, let alone this woman from Joe Biden who was doing the singing. Do you know who I'm talking about? The minister, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan41:35

       Yes, the Minister of Truth.

   16. GSGad Saad41:37

       That, who's going to adjudicate what is true or not. In a free society, there is always room for racists, imbeciles, idiots, false spreaders to exist. That's what it means to be true. And, and I've said this a million times, and I'll say it again on your show. I'm Jewish, as you know. There is no greater, more offensive lie that you could say than to deny the Holocaust. There's nothing more offensive, right? The, the, the most documented historical event that has led to the systematic eradication of a people in the most industry-level way, uh, so there's nothing more, you know, offensive than to deny it. Yet, I support the right of Holocaust deniers to exist. I may not invite them on my show because I think that it is fruitless, pointless for us to debate what is-

   17. JRJoe Rogan42:23

       Right.

   18. GSGad Saad42:23

       ... right? But they have a right to exist. So what does it mean that someone is going to adjudicate misinformation, disinformation? No, let the auto-corrective process of debate and the scientific method, message decide, uh, method decide that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan42:39

       Yeah, and people should know also that your life-... experience was far more extreme than the average person's. When you're, when you're saying this, you're coming from Lebanon where you literally fleed for your life, your family fleed for their lives because you're Jewish.

   20. GSGad Saad42:56

       Exactly.

   21. JRJoe Rogan42:57

       Like it wasn't, it's not as simple as, "I'm Jewish and denying the Holocaust is offensive to me-"

   22. GSGad Saad43:02

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan43:02

       "... because I'm Jewish." Like, no, you fleed for your life-

   24. GSGad Saad43:05

       Because exactly-

   25. JRJoe Rogan43:05

       ... because you were Jewish.

   26. GSGad Saad43:06

       Bingo.

   27. JRJoe Rogan43:06

       Yeah.

   28. GSGad Saad43:06

       And yet I support the rights of those idiots.

   29. JRJoe Rogan43:08

       And yet you still support it.

   30. GSGad Saad43:08

       So w- what, what greater commitment to absolute freedom of speech can you exhibit? So, so I hate all this stuff. I hate this idea that there should be hate speech laws. You can get on the pedestal, pedestal and say, "Jews suck. And you know what? You're an idiot, but that's cool." What you can't do is say, "Let's go to the corner of 7th Street and 8th Street, whatever, uh, 8th Avenue and kill every Jew that's at that synagogue." So short of incitement to violence-
10. 51:14 – 59:00

    Postmodernism in the wild: ‘men can get pregnant,’ deconstruction, and idea pathogens

    1. GSGad Saad51:14

       Do you remember ... I don't know if I've ever said this story on this show, but I think even if I have, it's worth repeating. It's something that I discuss in The Parasitic Mind. Did I ever tell you the story with my interaction with the woman with whom I had a battle about pregnant, men getting pregnant?

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:28

       I don't believe so, no.

    3. GSGad Saad51:29

       Let, so let me tell you this. So this, of all idea pathogens that I discuss in the book, the granddaddy of all ... So social constructivism is an idea pathogen. Biophobia, the fear of using biology to explain human affairs is a m- pathogen. Uh, cultural relativism is a pathogen. Identity politics, right? So, postmodernism is the granddaddy of all idea pathogens because it removes the most fundamental epistemological premise of reality, which is that there are universal truths that we can regularly count on. That's the whole premise of science. There are natural laws that we're trying to discover. Postmodernism says there is no absolute truth, everything is shackled by subjectivity, by personal biases, by relativism. So in 2002, one of my doctoral students had just defended his, uh, PhD. So he calls me and says, you know, "Would un lo-" Or maybe I called him, whatever. "Let's go out to dinner to celebrate." So it was myself, my wife, we didn't have kids then. 2002, 20 years ago. Uh, this is gonna speak about your emoji with the pregnant man.

    4. JRJoe Rogan52:31

       Mm-hmm.

    5. GSGad Saad52:32

       So, uh, it's myself, my wife, him, and he's bringing along, uh, a date. A, a female date. Uh, he calls me up to say, uh, "I just want to give you a heads up, uh, that my date for the evening is a graduate student in postmodernism, women's studies, and cultural anthropology." To which I answered, "Ah, the holy trinity of bullshit."

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:56

       (laughs)

    7. GSGad Saad52:57

       So ... So, and then I said, "Okay, I, I get what you're saying. You want me to be on my best behavior. This is about you, we're celebrating you."

    8. JRJoe Rogan53:03

       Right.

    9. GSGad Saad53:03

       "So I'm, mum's the word, you can count on me. I'm gonna be good." Of course it was a complete lie. About halfway through the evening, I turned to the lady in question and I said, uh, "You're a postmodernist graduate student, yes?" "Yes." "Do you mind ... I mean, I'm an evolutionist, evolutionary psychologist, so I do think there are, for example, human universals that we can rely on. Do you mind if I propose a universal and then you can tell me how I'm an imbecile?" She said, "Go for it." I said, "Is it not true that within Homo sapiens, only women bear children? Is that not a human universal?" So she looked at me kind of baffled by my stupidity and said, "Absolutely not." I said, "No? How is that?" So she said, "Well, there is some Japanese tribe off some Japanese island whereby within their folkloric mythological realm, it is the men who bear children. And so by you restricting it to the biological realm, that's how you keep us, you know, barefoot and pregnant." So once I-

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:02

        Mythological?

    11. GSGad Saad54:03

        Yeah, exactly. Uh-

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:04

        Wow.

    13. GSGad Saad54:05

        Once I recovered from the mini stroke-

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:09

        (laughs)

    15. GSGad Saad54:09

        ... having been exposed to her imbecility, I said, "Okay, well let me take an example that's perhaps not quite as corrosive and as contentious as only women bear children." I realized that was too dangerous ground. "Is it not true that since time immemorial, sailors have relied on the premise that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? Is that not true?" So there she used a, a variant strain of postmodernism called deconstructionism. It's ... And the founder is Jacques Derrida, who basically says that there is no-... reality outside of language. Language creates realities. So there, she deconstructed. She said, "What do you mean by 'East and West'? And what do you mean by 'the sun'? That which you call 'the sun', I might call 'dancing hyena'." I said, "Well, fine. The dancing hyena rises in the east and sets in the west." And then, "I- I- I see your perplexed face, but that's postmodernism," I said. So she said, "I don't play label games," and that ended the conversation.

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:10

        Oh my God.

    17. GSGad Saad55:10

        So-

    18. JRJoe Rogan55:10

        How is this guy dating her? Are they-

    19. GSGad Saad55:12

        But -they're-

    20. JRJoe Rogan55:12

        ... are they married with children now?

    21. GSGad Saad55:13

        It ... No, they're not. They're not. It ... I- I don't think it lasted much longer.

    22. JRJoe Rogan55:16

        They weren't

    23. NANarrator55:16

        ... kind?

    24. GSGad Saad55:16

        Exactly. (fingers snapping) So-

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:17

        Too bad.

    26. GSGad Saad55:17

        (laughs) Exactly.

    27. JRJoe Rogan55:18

        Wouldn't you like to interview her again?

    28. GSGad Saad55:20

        I- I would. I-

    29. JRJoe Rogan55:20

        20 years later?

    30. GSGad Saad55:20

        You know, and I wonder, by the way, if ... Because I've- I've told this story on a few occasions. It's in the book. I- I- I've always fantasized about whether she read that story and says, "What an idiot I was," or whether she reads that story and says, "What an idiot he is. He's never come around to seeing the truth." Uh-
11. 59:00 – 1:24:31

    Pronouns, social-media mobs, and ‘peak wokeness’: backlash and the silent majority

    1. JRJoe Rogan59:00

       Uh-huh.

    2. GSGad Saad59:00

       ... for example, I have another series of satirical, uh, clips where I do the hiding under the desk. Have you ever seen any of those?

    3. JRJoe Rogan59:08

       Hiding under the desk? Why?

    4. GSGad Saad59:09

       Yeah. So-

    5. JRJoe Rogan59:10

       (laughs)

    6. GSGad Saad59:11

       So- so what ... I literally ... So, I- I remember once, you very kindly said that, you know, you really appreciated, uh, that a professor of, kind of, my standing could be such a, you know, regular guy and joke around and so on. So, what I do is I mock the hysteria of the- the woke people by releasing clips where I'm hiding under the desk because I'm so fearful. So for example, uh, Donald Trump is inaugurated. I hide, and I- I literally do it ... I don't know if my acting is very good, but I pretend that I'm so fearful, because I'm satirizing the insane hysteria. So for example, when he was inaugurated, on my personal Facebook page, you'd have endless professors saying, "Well, will ... I'm a woman of color. Will I be able to still go safely on campus now that he's been elected?" Well, what do you think? There's going to be militia roadblocks where they veer the women of color to gang rape centers? Like, what kind of hysterical response is that to ... I mean, you don't like Donald Trump? Fine.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

       Yeah.

    8. GSGad Saad1:00:11

       But it's not going to lead to the eradication of professors of color. And so, I have a whole series of clips where I feign hysterical fear, hiding under the desk. The most recent one might have been ... or one of the recent ones ... Uh, I think you'll enjoy this story. So, my wife and I go to a cafe every morning, uh, after a one-hour walk. The barista that was serving him- h- her looked like a transgender person.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Hmm.

    10. GSGad Saad1:00:40

        So she came to me as we were waiting for our order to be delivered to us.And she said, "You know, I felt quite, uh, I didn't want to make an error in how I was addressing the person because, you know, I didn't know, should I s-" And so I put out a tweet that was meant to be a testimony to how sensitive and kind and empathetic my wife is, that she was very, very concerned to not get the, you know, the address wrong. It was meant to be something in, aligned with the pronoun Taliban, right? But it turns out abo- about 28 million tweet impressions later over two days, all egged by Valerie Bertinelli, that, you know, she, because she, somehow she's an ally to the LGBT community, so she came after me. Uh, anyways, it doesn't matter.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

        Valerie Bertinelli, the lady that used to be married to Eddie Van Halen?

    12. GSGad Saad1:01:31

        Exactly. Exactly. Uh, you can probably go find all the tweets. They're still up there. So then-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

        So I'm, I'm, uh, I'm a little lost here.

    14. GSGad Saad1:01:39

        Yeah. Go, go, go.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:39

        So what was she upset at?

    16. GSGad Saad1:01:41

        Uh, that she couldn't have said, "Hello. May I have a coffee?" without using pronouns? Is she mentally ill that she doesn't know how to address someone without a pronoun use? But there was ... I explained then what happened. There was a colleague of the barista who, who, my wife turned to, to that colleague to say, because it was the first day that the transgender person was working-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

        Okay.

    18. GSGad Saad1:02:04

        ... and was having a hard time with the cash register. So she wanted to say, "Oh, it's only his first day. He'll get the hang of it." So there, there was a need to use a pronoun, right?

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:13

        Right.

    20. GSGad Saad1:02:13

        Or it was her first, but she didn't know. So she didn't want to presume that this female presenting person was a her. Maybe that will offend her. She didn't want to use the, uh ... And so it was a very inoffensive-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:26

        Innocent.

    22. GSGad Saad1:02:26

        ... thi- innocent thing.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

        Right.

    24. GSGad Saad1:02:27

        And so I tweeted about it as a measure of how lovely my wife is, that she was so concerned. So I mean, literally millions of tweets of hate. Now, of course-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:38

        Wow.

    26. GSGad Saad1:02:38

        ... if I were Drew Brees, I would have gone on the record apologizing for having exhibited patriotism towards the flag, and I didn't know that the US flag hurt some of my colleagues. I'm a honey badger. I don't apologize to anybody, but what I did is I released a satirical Under the Desk clip where I said that all of the stuff that I faced in the Lebanese Civil War from Islamic extremists is nothing as scary as the pronoun Taliban. That got them more angry, and I just kept egging them on and on till they went away. So lesson is, les-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:15

        (laughs)

    28. GSGad Saad1:03:15

        Life lesson, never apologize to the assholes.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:19

        But tha- that seems like you have a lot of free time. You're, you're willing to engage with those people all day long like that? (laughs)

    30. GSGad Saad1:03:24

        You know what it is? It's a pressure valve release for me.

Episode duration: 3:11:47