Joe Rogan Experience #1820 - Jack Carr

Narrator 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music) And we're up.

Jack Carr 0:13 We are up.

Joe Rogan 0:14 In the blood.

Jack Carr 0:15 In the blood. Woo.

Joe Rogan 0:16 You are, without a doubt, the, uh, wi- within the last 20 years of my life, I've read more of your fiction than anybody else's.

Jack Carr 0:23 Dude, thank you. I-

Joe Rogan 0:25 Fact.

Jack Carr 0:26 I am honored. I am honored.

Joe Rogan 0:27 It's kind of a lie because I'm not reading it, I'm listening.

Jack Carr 0:29 Mm. I know, but it's, it's kind of interchangeable today.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Yes.

Jack Carr 0:32 Today it is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:33 It's sort of. But when I say, like John L. Rawlings give me a hard time.

Jack Carr 0:36 They do.

Joe Rogan 0:36 He goes-

Jack Carr 0:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:36 ... "How you reading when you're just listening?"

Jack Carr 0:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:38 He's right.

Jack Carr 0:39 Yeah, it's listening, but...

Joe Rogan 0:40 Reading is harder than listening.

Jack Carr 0:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 But I don't have that time.

Jack Carr 0:43 Nope.

Joe Rogan 0:43 So like for me, it's like I've finished your books in the sauna-

Jack Carr 0:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:47 ... and on the commute to work.

Jack Carr 0:48 I'm gonna try my best to get that outta my head. I'm not gonna-

Joe Rogan 0:50 I'm, I'm wearing underwear.

Jack Carr 0:51 (laughs) Still.

Joe Rogan 0:53 You know, it's af- after training, it's very manly.

Jack Carr 0:55 Okay. Okay.

Joe Rogan 0:56 It's very manly. Don't worry.

Jack Carr 0:57 (laughs) All right.

Joe Rogan 0:57 People think of the sauna as like-

Jack Carr 0:59 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:59 ... you know, like a leisure activity.

Jack Carr 1:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 But the way I do it is pretty rough. I do it after training and I do it at 189 degrees and I do it for 25 minutes. It's hard.

Jack Carr 1:07 We're putting one of those in because of-

Joe Rogan 1:09 Yeah.

Jack Carr 1:09 ... because of you and a bunch of other people that have, uh, talked about the benefits of doing that.

Joe Rogan 1:13 Yeah.

Jack Carr 1:13 So one's going in at the new house. But-

Joe Rogan 1:16 It's a life changer.

Jack Carr 1:16 ... do you go between that and the cold thing? The cold bath?

Joe Rogan 1:19 Yes.

Jack Carr 1:19 Oh, my god.

Joe Rogan 1:19 Yeah, I go back and forth. It's so easy once you, um, once you go in the cold thing and then go back in 189 degrees, it's so easy.

Jack Carr 1:27 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:27 So I wind up doing... I usually do about 20 minutes in the hot until I can't take it anymore, and then I jump-

Jack Carr 1:34 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:34 ... in the cold, and then I do three minutes in the cold, and then I can do another 15, 20 minutes easy in the hot before I start getting hot again.

Jack Carr 1:41 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:41 Just 'cause your body's so cold.

Jack Carr 1:43 I know. It sounds not healthy, though, 'cause it sounds like things are going like from-

Joe Rogan 1:46 (laughs)

Jack Carr 1:46 ... open to closed-

Joe Rogan 1:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Jack Carr 1:47 ... and like I don't know, I just...

Joe Rogan 1:48 Builds resilience.

Jack Carr 1:49 It seems like if I got one of those, 'cause I'm definitely doing the hot one. It's gonna have its nice view over the mountains and everything. And then I'm thinking about putting in the cold tub and maybe...

Joe Rogan 1:56 Mm.

Jack Carr 1:56 But I think it would just be almost, uh, for looks, because I'd do it once and say, "That was horrible."

Joe Rogan 2:01 (laughs)

Jack Carr 2:01 "I'm not, I'm not doing that again." Why would (laughs) why would one do that to themselves?

Joe Rogan 2:04 It's not that bad. It's not. It's not that bad.

Jack Carr 2:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07 It's good. It's good for you.

Jack Carr 2:09 And you feel good, it wakes you up.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I love it. I love it.

Jack Carr 2:12 I needed one this morning 'cause I, my flight got delayed last night, so I was in at like 3:30 in the morning-

Joe Rogan 2:16 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 2:16 ... and then up for interviews 'cause the book just came out. And I was actually thinking about that. I was gonna be like, "I'm gonna get in the cold shower, I'm gonna turn it on." And when I got in that shower, there was no cold water.

Joe Rogan 2:24 No. Yeah.

Jack Carr 2:24 No. No. No.

Joe Rogan 2:24 It's hot out.

Jack Carr 2:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Once it's hot out in Texas-

Jack Carr 2:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:26 ... the water's warm. Um, but we're, we're having one installed here. It'll be here at the end of the month.

Jack Carr 2:30 Oh, nice. Ooh.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Yeah.

Jack Carr 2:30 The cold or the hot?

Joe Rogan 2:31 The cold and the hot. We'll have one-

Jack Carr 2:33 Nice.

Joe Rogan 2:33 ... back to back next to each other. I didn't take you next door.

Jack Carr 2:35 Let's check it out.

Joe Rogan 2:35 Oh, I have a crazy... Oh, afterwards, I'll show you the gym.

Jack Carr 2:37 Oh, nice.

Joe Rogan 2:38 But we have, uh, at the house, I have a barrel sauna right next to the cold plunge.

Jack Carr 2:43 That's the one we're in.

Joe Rogan 2:43 And it's the best.

Jack Carr 2:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:44 It's just going back and forth is, it's awesome. But Cam Hane says that the way to do the cold is you do the cold and then let your body heat up naturally.

Jack Carr 2:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:53 And that is the best way to get the most out of the cold. To be able to-

Jack Carr 2:57 That sounds more healthy than just going like back and forth between the two.

Joe Rogan 3:00 Mm.

Jack Carr 3:00 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 3:01 It's hard to do. I, last one I did last night, I went out last night. And so, uh, before me and the wife went out, I got in the cold plunge for like three minutes and then it took hours before I felt warm though. (laughs)

Jack Carr 3:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:13 I was in the car freezing my ass off and she's like, "Oh my God, it's so hot," and she's turning the AC up. I'm like, "Shit."

Jack Carr 3:18 (laughs) 'Cause your body can... I mean, so you're hypothermic essentially. I mean, you're on the verge of it 'cause you can't... It's harder for you to warm your body back up and that, what hypothermia is, you can't warm it back up on your own, so you're, you're close.

Joe Rogan 3:27 Well, I'm, I'm-

Jack Carr 3:27 If it's taking a while.

Joe Rogan 3:28 ... I'm fine. I mean, three minutes I'm fine. One time I did 20 minutes.

Jack Carr 3:31 Oh.

Joe Rogan 3:32 That was, that was hard.

Jack Carr 3:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:33 That time it was in the summer and I was driving, it was like in 90 degree weather, and I was driving all the way to work with the windows rolled up and I was still freezing. Shivering.

Jack Carr 3:42 Oh, I remember you said that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:43 No AC on, shivering.

Jack Carr 3:45 Yeah. Yeah. I think there's... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 3:46 That's not smart.

Jack Carr 3:47 No, I mean like, I, I feel like I did that in BUD/S and just like died.

Joe Rogan 3:50 Yeah. Yeah.

Jack Carr 3:51 Like I, like I'm good.

Joe Rogan 3:52 You've been there. (laughs)

Jack Carr 3:53 I think so. I mean, I feel like I don't need to keep doing it, like some of these things.

Joe Rogan 3:56 The ocean of the Pacific is brutal.

Jack Carr 3:58 It can be a little chilly.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Oh my God.

Jack Carr 4:00 It can be a little chilly.

Joe Rogan 4:00 Like people are used to the ocean in the Atlantic. The Atlantic Ocean is not bad.

Jack Carr 4:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:04 You know? Especially if you're in Florida.

Jack Carr 4:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 4:06 It's pretty nice.

Jack Carr 4:06 Yep. And you get that warm water that comes up and...

Joe Rogan 4:08 Yeah.

Jack Carr 4:09 Uh, Pacific just really stays cold the whole time.

Joe Rogan 4:11 The whole time.

Jack Carr 4:11 As you know.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Yeah.

Jack Carr 4:12 And, uh, that's where most of the quitters come from in BUD/S is 'cause of that cold.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Really?

Jack Carr 4:15 And, uh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:16 That's interesting.

Jack Carr 4:16 It's cold. I mean, the, the sleep deprivation part of it and hell week I guess plays in, but I think it plays in more because the cold's affecting your body more. 'Cause you haven't slept and-

Joe Rogan 4:23 For sure.

Jack Carr 4:24 ... at the, like Wednesday night and you're just freezing. But the worst part of it is when they put you on Wednesday night, they let you sleep for a couple hours, so they put you in this tent on the beach. So you've been up since Sunday morning, you've been running, you're in and out of the water, so your body's like that cold, clammy sweat. And then they throw a bunch of dudes, like age 18 to like 22 into a tent with no ventilation. And you're s- on these cots and you just immediately go into REM sleep, and so you're just like shaken, and your eyes rolling around and you're just like shaken in the bed there. And then they... It feels like one second, but it's really hour and a half, two hours, something like that. And then they throw a flash crash grenade in and come shooting-

Joe Rogan 4:57 (laughs)

Jack Carr 4:57 ... over the top of your head with M60 with blanks.

Joe Rogan 4:59 (laughs)

Jack Carr 4:59 And you're like jolted out of this sleep.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Oh my God.

Jack Carr 5:01 And then right into the Pacific Ocean, and you're in there, uh, locked arms with your buddies in the Pacific Ocean again, and then you just get droves of quitters. Which is, which great, 'cause I, I, uh, it told me that the program was working.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Yeah.

Jack Carr 5:12 So I did like that.

Joe Rogan 5:13 That is a thing that you can't soften up.

Jack Carr 5:17 No.

Joe Rogan 5:17 If you wanna make SEALs, you have to make SEALs the way they make SEALs.

Jack Carr 5:21 I think so.

Joe Rogan 5:22 I think so.

Jack Carr 5:22 I think so.

Joe Rogan 5:23 I mean, obviously I've never done it, but I can only imagine that there's only one way to do it correctly.

Jack Carr 5:27 Well, I mean, you're doing it every day, getting in and out-

Joe Rogan 5:29 Yeah.

Jack Carr 5:29 ... of that, uh, that barrel and then into the cold.

Joe Rogan 5:31 Oh, please.

Jack Carr 5:31 I mean, it sounds like you're-

Joe Rogan 5:32 Please.

Jack Carr 5:32 It sounds like you're doing it to yourself.

Joe Rogan 5:33 I sleep on nice sheets.

Jack Carr 5:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:35 I wake up, you know, 7:00 AM with an alarm clock, well-rested.

Jack Carr 5:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:38 Yawn. No. Yeah, no. It sounds like-

Jack Carr 5:40 No. No.

Joe Rogan 5:40 ... you're doing it each and every time. But I thought about this recently, and I thought that, hey, if you were today, in today's day and age where we're all so comfortable and you were to come up with this program and say, "Hey, you know what? We should make these special operations guys in the Navy. And we'll call them SEALs and we'll have this hell week thing where we keep them on the verge of hypothermia the whole time. We might... A guy might die every now and again. Um, but, uh, that we'll find out through that if they have grit, if they have this intangible thing. Uh, and then they would take that up the chain of command and brief that to new admirals and captains up there." There's no way it would get approved. No way.

Jack Carr 6:15 The only reason that it's a, a program-

Joe Rogan 6:16 (laughs)

Jack Carr 6:16 ... is 'cause it's a legacy program. There's no way you create a program like that today.

Joe Rogan 6:20 But that's the only way you're gonna make the kind of people that are necessary to do those heavy-duty missions.

Jack Carr 6:26 Yup. Yup.

Joe Rogan 6:26 There's no other way 'cause you gotta have someone who you know is not going to quit.

Jack Carr 6:30 That's it.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Is not going to fall apart.

Jack Carr 6:32 That's it.

Joe Rogan 6:32 And is going to be able to be there for his fellow soldiers if shit goes sideways.

Jack Carr 6:38 That's right. That's right.

Joe Rogan 6:38 You're not, you're not gonna develop a person like that without some sort of extreme adversity. A test.

Jack Carr 6:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:45 To see what you're made of.And also I would imagine like for a guy like you, you wanted to be a SEAL for a long time before you ever entered.

Jack Carr 6:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:53 So it was something that you built towards, you worked towards, it was in your mind.

Jack Carr 6:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:58 And you had prepared yourself.

Jack Carr 6:59 Yup.

Joe Rogan 7:00 You don't want someone who's like, "Well, maybe I'll try to be a SEAL."

Jack Carr 7:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:03 You know, "I think I'm, I'm pretty badass."

Jack Carr 7:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:05 "My mentality..."

Jack Carr 7:07 (laughs) And sometimes those guys do great. Like I, I was always shocked how many people got to boot camp, and this is still days before the internet, so late '90s, uh, that hadn't heard of SEALs yet. And they were like, "Oh, I'll give that a shot." And they do great.

Joe Rogan 7:18 Really?

Jack Carr 7:18 And then you have guys like me that have been training their whole life for it, and then you have guys training their whole life for it that quit the first day type of a thing.

Joe Rogan 7:25 God.

Jack Carr 7:25 And then you get people that find out about it in boot camp that also quit the first day. So you get ev- and everything in between as well. But it's really, you know, you're testing for that thing you can't test for other than putting people through a crucible. And throughout history there have been these different crucibles, these different tests, um, really to allow men to be part of the tribe.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Mm.

Jack Carr 7:41 And they have to pass these things. And today it's a marine, marine boot camp. You know, it's, it's, uh, SEAL training, hell week in particular. It's, uh, Robin Sage, uh, in the Q Course for Special Forces. So-

Joe Rogan 7:52 What is that?

Jack Carr 7:52 Uh, Robin Sage, it's a course, uh, it's part of the Q Course for Army Special Forces guys, um, where they go into a, a made-up country of Pineland and have to, uh, deal with a, um, uh, uh, a network of, of agents and tribes and that sort of thing, really based on, uh, counter-insurgency doctrine of the, the '50s and '60s and '70s. But, uh, but it's a, it's a, uh, a testing, uh, a way that they test Special Forces soldiers as part of their, uh, the last thing they do before they get that, that Green Beret.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Wow.

Jack Carr 8:21 Yeah, it's very cool.

Joe Rogan 8:22 So-

Jack Carr 8:22 Very cool.

Joe Rogan 8:22 ... is SEALs recognized as the most difficult path to go?

Jack Carr 8:26 Well, that's what I read when I was seven when I went down to the library with my mom and, uh, I did some research into what SEALs were.

Joe Rogan 8:31 That's when it first got into your head?

Jack Carr 8:32 Yup, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Wow.

Jack Carr 8:33 I saw a movie called the Frogmen, uh, which is an old black and white film that showed these guys coming up over the beach.

Joe Rogan 8:38 Who was in that?

Jack Carr 8:38 I forget the guy's name and, and, uh, I'll remember it as soon as we're off. But it's a-

Joe Rogan 8:42 Oh, we'll find out right now.

Jack Carr 8:43 ... actor from like the '50s. Yeah, we can find out right now.

Joe Rogan 8:45 We have Jamie.

Jack Carr 8:45 Yeah, we have Jamie. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:45 Best one-handed Googler on earth right next to us.

Jack Carr 8:48 (laughs) He's the best. But it's called the Frogmen.

Joe Rogan 8:49 There it is.

Jack Carr 8:49 And, uh, yeah, Richard Widmark. That's it. That's the name.

Joe Rogan 8:52 Wow, look how old that looks.

Jack Carr 8:53 Yeah, yeah. It's an old movie.

Joe Rogan 8:54 This is from the 1950s?

Jack Carr 8:55 I think so, '51. There it is.

Joe Rogan 8:57 So this was when it was ... Was it UDT back then?

Jack Carr 9:00 Uh, it was the Naval Combat Demolition Units in World War II, and I might have one of those letters slightly off, and then UDT, Underwater Demolition Teams. Um-

Joe Rogan 9:08 Have you ever heard the Whiskey Myers song, Frogman?

Jack Carr 9:11 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Fuck.

Jack Carr 9:12 I can't believe I haven't heard that.

Joe Rogan 9:13 Fuck.

Jack Carr 9:14 Really?

Joe Rogan 9:14 It's great.

Jack Carr 9:15 I'll be listening to that shortly.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Dude, Whiskey Myers is the shit.

Jack Carr 9:18 But look at this. So I saw this, so I was a remote control back in the '80s, you know, like we didn't have actual remote controls, so-

Joe Rogan 9:23 God, look at the scuba outfits. They're-

Jack Carr 9:25 Yeah, check that out.

Joe Rogan 9:25 ... goofy looking.

Jack Carr 9:26 Look at that, he's carrying ... Hey.

Narrator 9:27 They fight like men from another world.

Jack Carr 9:29 Fight like men from another world.

Joe Rogan 9:30 (laughs)

Narrator 9:31 Texas and Missouri written all over their hearts.

Jack Carr 9:33 Look at that. Wow.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Wow.

Narrator 9:34 You're a brave man, all of you are. You wouldn't be in this outfit. Nobody questions that. But your kind of bravery comes 10 cents a dozen and isn't worth a hoot more when the chips are down.

Joe Rogan 9:43 Pause that for a second.

Jack Carr 9:44 There it is.

Joe Rogan 9:44 Pause that for a second.

Jack Carr 9:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:46 One thing-

Jack Carr 9:46 Fantastic.

Joe Rogan 9:47 You know when people talk about the good old days, like, "They don't make them like they used to."

Jack Carr 9:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:50 I'll tell you what, that doesn't apply to acting. (laughs)

Jack Carr 9:52 No. (laughs) It was a little different back then.

Joe Rogan 9:54 (laughs)

Jack Carr 9:54 A little, they had some overacting going on. And they're all like that, too.

Joe Rogan 9:57 It is terrible.

Jack Carr 9:57 They're all like that.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Everybody.

Jack Carr 9:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:58 The best movie stars-

Jack Carr 9:59 They're all like that.

Joe Rogan 9:59 ... were terrible.

Jack Carr 10:00 I know.

Joe Rogan 10:00 What is that?

Jack Carr 10:01 I don't know, but it changed, I don't know when it exactly changed, but I think '60s it started to change a little bit, by late '60s certainly. Uh, then we have a period of time in the '70s where you had certain things going on. And so it, it's interesting how each decade, kind of like with music-

Joe Rogan 10:13 Yeah.

Jack Carr 10:13 ... has a different almost style of acting.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Yeah.

Jack Carr 10:15 It's interesting.

Joe Rogan 10:16 Yeah. But it's just, I wonder, what do you think it is, Jim? What do you think, what ... Why were they bad?

Jack Carr 10:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:22 Have you thought about it?

Jack Carr 10:23 Maybe it's just different. Maybe it's subjective.

Narrator 10:25 I, I think you just work off of what you heard before so they were, all they had heard was like people acting on the radio maybe.

Joe Rogan 10:31 Hmm.

Jack Carr 10:31 Ooh, that's a good theory.

Narrator 10:31 And these are the first things that they have to go off of and they're like-

Jack Carr 10:34 That's a very good theory.

Narrator 10:34 ... "Hey, you know what? Yeah."

Joe Rogan 10:35 I bet you just nailed it.

Jack Carr 10:36 I think that's it.

Joe Rogan 10:36 I bet that's exactly what it is.

Jack Carr 10:38 'Cause you had like those World War II, uh, reels. The newsreels.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Yeah.

Jack Carr 10:41 You know, same thing.

Joe Rogan 10:42 Right.

Jack Carr 10:42 If you listen to those old newsreels about the attack on Pearl Harbor-

Joe Rogan 10:45 Yeah.

Jack Carr 10:45 ... or Midway, like they had that same kind of tone, which is obviously different than what you had 10 years later, which is different than you had 10 years after that, so-

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yeah.

Jack Carr 10:52 ... maybe it's all, it's all connected. Who knows? But there's a lot of that going on, like you, like if you listen to somebody on the radio and then that's the way you act, same thing, we were-

Joe Rogan 11:00 (laughs)

Jack Carr 11:00 We were figuring out the, uh, the way to have Chris Pratt in the show, in the Terminal List show, uh, break into a car. And, uh, what, uh, what I, what usually happens in Hollywood is someone like, they break the window of the car or they, and they get, and then they, there's these two wires that are miraculously just underneath the dash and they just touch them.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Uh-huh.

Jack Carr 11:17 And then it starts right up. And so, uh, because we wanted to root this in reality, the show, uh, there's a part that got cut of Chris driving his, uh, Land Cruiser looking for another vehicle because he needs to get another one because the authorities know that the, the Land Cruiser is there. So he has to look for one that he knows how to break into. Uh, I went to a car stealing school a while back and learned all these different, what cars are easier to break into than others and, and that sort of thing. So we did it the exact way that you would break into that particular vehicle. So he had to find one, an older, I think it's an older, it's an older pickup truck that he finds. And then he breaks into it the way that you would and he starts the engine the way that you would. And unfortunately some of that got, got cut out in the, in the post-production. But, uh, point being, it was written into the script as, goes into the car, touches the wires under the dash.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Ah.

Jack Carr 11:59 Because I think that at one point in Hollywood, they're like, "Uh, we need to break into this car," let's say in 1950-

Joe Rogan 12:04 Right.

Jack Carr 12:04 ... something. And that's what they did. And then every other movie from then on did essentially the same thing.

Joe Rogan 12:09 Yes.

Jack Carr 12:10 You know, so ...

Joe Rogan 12:10 Do you remember that movie, there was a movie with Charlie Sheen where he was a Porsche thief? All he did is steal Porsches.

Jack Carr 12:17 Yes. And who was in it with him? Somebody was in it with him.

Joe Rogan 12:20 A guy that, uh, he'd been in a bunch of movies, but I don't know his name.

Jack Carr 12:23 I think I do.

Joe Rogan 12:23 And he was like an undercover cop that was like befriending Charlie Sheen.

Jack Carr 12:27 Here we go.

Joe Rogan 12:28 D.B. Sweeney, that's who it was.

Jack Carr 12:29 Oh, wow. Geez. What was the name of the movie?

Joe Rogan 12:33 ... No Man's Land.

Jack Carr 12:34 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 12:35 That, that's like the first movie that got me really excited about Porsches.

Jack Carr 12:38 Wow. Nice.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Because, uh, Charlie Sheen called Ferraris Italian trash.

Jack Carr 12:42 (laughs) Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 12:43 All they would steal is Porsches.

Jack Carr 12:44 Nice.

Joe Rogan 12:44 And they would steal Porsches and then, you know, the cops would try to trace them, but of course they couldn't catch them.

Jack Carr 12:48 Of course not.

Joe Rogan 12:49 Because Porsches handled so good. They would just be-

Jack Carr 12:51 That's right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:51 ... going around corners and everything.

Jack Carr 12:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 12:53 And they were cool-looking Porsches. Like look at those.

Jack Carr 12:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:55 The 1980s... Oh, yeah.

Jack Carr 12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:57 Look.

Jack Carr 12:58 There we go.

Joe Rogan 12:58 Beautiful-looking little zippy cars.

Jack Carr 13:01 Man, I'm looking at that, like a 912. I've always wanted a 912.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Really? Why?

Jack Carr 13:05 Just 'cause it has an old engine and it's like a Volkswagen engine.

Joe Rogan 13:08 With the four-cylinder though. (imitates engine)

Jack Carr 13:09 Yeah, I just kind of like that, 'cause I have that FJ40 now also that has original engine in it.

Joe Rogan 13:13 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 13:13 Rebuilt, but it goes about, top speed about 40, 45. And there's just something about like 1968 912, uh, maybe that, that slate gray they used to have back then.

Joe Rogan 13:22 Oh, yeah.

Jack Carr 13:22 Or the British racing green or something like that. And there's-

Joe Rogan 13:25 Look at that. There's one.

Jack Carr 13:26 There it is, there it is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:27 Target top. Look at that.

Jack Carr 13:28 Look at it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:29 Sweet.

Jack Carr 13:29 So something cool like that, a little Sunday, Sunday driver.

Joe Rogan 13:32 They're so light.

Jack Carr 13:32 And yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 13:33 Those cars are so light.

Jack Carr 13:34 It was like the affordable Porsche back then, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:36 Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack Carr 13:37 And so, I don't know, I just always had a little affinity for, for those. Because everybody knows the 911 and, okay, that's, that's wonderful obviously, but the 912...

Joe Rogan 13:43 Well, it's basically the same look, right?

Jack Carr 13:45 Same look, but different engine. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:46 Yeah, big, big difference.

Jack Carr 13:48 Somebody makes one that's a... I think they put it on a Tesla body. Have you seen that? They dropped it. It was on, uh, I think Jay Leno's Garage showed it, but I forget the name of the company. But they drop it on a Tesla body. So you have this thing that looks old. Looks like a 1968 Porsche 912, but it's really all Tesla'd out.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Well, there is one company that makes an electric 964. I think it's a 964, and it fucking flies.

Jack Carr 14:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:11 But the problem is, it's, uh... Oh, look at that.

Jack Carr 14:14 There it is.

Joe Rogan 14:14 That's beautiful.

Jack Carr 14:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:15 God, that's beautiful.

Jack Carr 14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Look at that forest gray.

Jack Carr 14:17 There it is.

Joe Rogan 14:18 That forest green one.

Jack Carr 14:18 It's electric right there.

Joe Rogan 14:19 A Tesla swap.

Jack Carr 14:20 Yep.

Joe Rogan 14:20 A Tesla swap, of course.

Jack Carr 14:21 We need to reach out to those guys.

Joe Rogan 14:22 That must be so fast.

Jack Carr 14:24 Yeah. That thing is beautiful.

Joe Rogan 14:24 Because if you, you take that insane engine... But the problem with it is, for sure, the problem is that it's, it's going to be an automatic.

Jack Carr 14:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:33 And it's one gear. And that, you miss-

Jack Carr 14:34 You miss all the working.

Joe Rogan 14:35 So much of the fun of one of those cars is shifting the gears.

Jack Carr 14:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Let me hear this.

Jack Carr 14:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:40 This is blasphemy. Don't hear any of that.

Jack Carr 14:42 I know, I know.

Joe Rogan 14:43 This should be outlawed.

Jack Carr 14:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:45 They should go to jail for this.

Narrator 14:46 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 14:48 Yeah, it's fast, Jay Leno.

Jack Carr 14:50 (laughs) But I like that it looks so clean and old.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Oh, it's beautiful.

Jack Carr 14:54 It looks like it's just right off the showroom floor in '68. Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:57 And then it flies like a, like a monorail.

Jack Carr 14:59 Like a brand new... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:00 I wonder if they're allowed to or able, rather, to use, um, antilock brakes on something like that.

Jack Carr 15:05 I don't know. They probably, the whole thing is... I don't know, whatever they have in Teslas. I don't have a Tesla, but...

Joe Rogan 15:09 Their, well, Teslas are, are pretty fucking amazing. I have the, the newest one, which, you might as well be riding a rollercoaster.

Jack Carr 15:15 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:15 I have the Model S Plaid.

Jack Carr 15:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:17 It's preposterous.

Jack Carr 15:18 What is, is that, what is, is there a new ludicrous mode or is there something else?

Joe Rogan 15:21 I don't know. I leave it on all the time.

Jack Carr 15:22 Oh, that's funny. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:22 I leave it on. It goes 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds.

Jack Carr 15:25 Dang.

Joe Rogan 15:25 Really. A four-door sedan that is very sedated-looking.

Jack Carr 15:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:30 It's very family-car-looking.

Jack Carr 15:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:32 That thing is the fastest car I have.

Jack Carr 15:34 Really?

Joe Rogan 15:35 I have race cars.

Jack Carr 15:35 You have a lot of awesome cars.

Joe Rogan 15:36 I have crazy fast cars. I have like muscle cars and I have a Porsche 911 GT3.

Jack Carr 15:41 That's crazy. I saw that.

Joe Rogan 15:42 That, that car leaves that car in the dust.

Jack Carr 15:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:44 That Tesla buries them all.

Jack Carr 15:46 Oh, man. I know.

Joe Rogan 15:47 If I had to choose one car to drive-

Jack Carr 15:48 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 15:48 ... it would be that car.

Jack Carr 15:49 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 15:49 If I could only had to reduce it down to one car, 'cause it's so effortless.

Jack Carr 15:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:54 Like when you merge on the highway, it just goes... Like all of a sudden you, you're going 80 miles an hour, like in a second.

Jack Carr 15:59 I know there's something to that. But I like, like that FJ40 that I have, it's a, you know, four-speed.

Joe Rogan 16:02 Yeah.

Jack Carr 16:03 But you're working it. I mean, you're in there.

Joe Rogan 16:04 Yes.

Jack Carr 16:04 You can't be drinking coffee, you can't be doing anything else.

Joe Rogan 16:06 Yeah.

Jack Carr 16:07 You have to be straightening out.

Joe Rogan 16:07 Oh, is this the guy on the Nurburgring?

Narrator 16:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:09 Oh, my god.

Jack Carr 16:10 Which one is this?

Joe Rogan 16:10 The, this is what I have. This is the Model S Plaid.

Jack Carr 16:12 Oh, geez. Dude, I don't need to be doing that probably.

Joe Rogan 16:15 This is-

Jack Carr 16:15 That is crazy.

Joe Rogan 16:15 A fucking preposterously fast car. It's amazing.

Jack Carr 16:18 That is crazy.

Joe Rogan 16:19 It's so good. But I mean, it's not designed to handle like this.

Jack Carr 16:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:22 But it still handles better than... I had a Model S before this, like the, I think it's called a P100D.

Jack Carr 16:28 Man.

Joe Rogan 16:28 And that was pretty good. But this one handles a lot better. The new, the Plaid handles better.

Jack Carr 16:33 That is insane.

Joe Rogan 16:33 But there's still a company called... I think it's called Unplugged.

Jack Carr 16:36 That's going to make them even faster? Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah. They, they, they customize them. I don't know if they're, see if they're doing that with the Plaid.

Jack Carr 16:43 Oh.

Joe Rogan 16:43 But they, um, make them with carbon fiber brakes, a larger brake package. They put high-profile or low-profile tires rather-

Jack Carr 16:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:50 ... that are wider. So I think they widened the fenders a bit.

Narrator 16:53 They upgrade a Plaid it says. Oh.

Jack Carr 16:56 Oh, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 16:56 Ah, Jesus Christ.

Narrator 16:58 There it is.

Jack Carr 16:58 It turned into a goddamn race car.

Joe Rogan 17:00 Wow. (laughs)

Jack Carr 17:00 Look at that. Front splitter. Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Ugh. That's crazy.

Jack Carr 17:04 Unplugged Performance aftermarket upgrades for the Tesla Model S Plaid. Long range and improve your car suspension, brake system, aerodynamic capabilities, and others. We offer a range of track-oriented safety and performance upgrades, ensuring your growth through track times.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Here we go.

Jack Carr 17:18 Oh, these sons of bitches.

Joe Rogan 17:19 Yeah. I think I'm gonna make-

Jack Carr 17:20 They're gonna make my car faster.

Joe Rogan 17:21 (laughs) I don't need to work on my track time these days. I just-

Jack Carr 17:23 Look how beautiful that looks though.

Joe Rogan 17:24 Yeah.

Jack Carr 17:24 Scroll down to the, that one right there. Look what they do. They, they widen the fenders.

Joe Rogan 17:28 I don't know if I can pull that off, though.

Jack Carr 17:29 They put dope wheels on.

Joe Rogan 17:30 What do you mean? I don't think it's me.

Jack Carr 17:32 What?

Joe Rogan 17:32 I don't like that FJ40, like the FJ62.

Jack Carr 17:35 I know.

Joe Rogan 17:35 And like that- Well, you're a- you're an author and you like to fuck... I bet you use a typewriter, you son of a bitch.

Jack Carr 17:39 I have a typewriter, but it just sits behind me.

Joe Rogan 17:41 (laughs)

Jack Carr 17:41 I should collect them now. I collect these old typewriters and, uh, and I love having them near me, but I don't use them.

Joe Rogan 17:46 There's a difference, you know?

Jack Carr 17:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:48 I, I do lo- look, I'm saying all this, but I really love old cars.

Jack Carr 17:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:53 I love manual transmissions. I love, like, the gears and-

Jack Carr 17:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:56 ... hearing the engine rev up and everything.

Jack Carr 17:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:58 I do love all that.

Jack Carr 17:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:59 It's, there's something about the, the tactile soulful experience.

Jack Carr 18:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:05 There's-

Jack Carr 18:05 It's different.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Yeah.

Jack Carr 18:06 It's different.

Joe Rogan 18:06 And you really like it 'cause you like them that are slow.

Jack Carr 18:09 I like them that are slow, but then I also like a couple sleepers.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Ah.

Jack Carr 18:11 Like the, uh... So the FJ62 has the LS3. And I didn't know that there was a different version of the LS3 that's faster than the one I have.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Oh, really?

Jack Carr 18:19 So you have... Well, you have it. It's in your Land Cruiser.

Joe Rogan 18:21 Oh, the supercharged one.

Jack Carr 18:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 18:22 Yeah.

Jack Carr 18:22 But I don't know why Jonathan Ward didn't tell me that that existed.

Joe Rogan 18:25 Because he never did it before mine.

Jack Carr 18:26 Well, 'cause, but you had yours first.

Joe Rogan 18:28 Yeah.

Jack Carr 18:28 So I was like, "Well, why didn't he-"

Joe Rogan 18:30 I don't think he wants to do any.

Jack Carr 18:30 Why didn't he try to upsell? Like...

Joe Rogan 18:32 I think he likes to keep things simple and functional.

Jack Carr 18:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:36 You know, and I, I think the way Jonathan... I'm speaking for him, obviously. I think his deal was he thinks that the regular eight cylinder is such a giant upgrade from the four cylinder that comes with it.

Jack Carr 18:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 Or is it six?

Jack Carr 18:49 Uh, that one, that one had a six. 80?

Joe Rogan 18:50 In-line six, yeah.... that are such-

Jack Carr 18:52 Or the... Well, no. The 80 had one... No. Your 80 had a... It had an eight in it, I think. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 18:55 Really?

Jack Carr 18:56 ... I, I think so. I think it was all-wheel drive, uh, eight, I think, anyway. But my 62 had a s- inline six.

Joe Rogan 19:01 Yeah. I have an... I had a '95 FJ80, and then they converted it into what is now like one of my favorite cars.

Jack Carr 19:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:09 And it's got that... It's basically a supercharged Corvette engine.

Jack Carr 19:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Yeah.

Jack Carr 19:13 So, I have the LS3, but I didn't know there was an a- option to have something else in there. So, dang it.

Joe Rogan 19:17 It's still pretty slow. (laughs)

Jack Carr 19:18 I... Yeah. Well, comparatively, I guess.

Joe Rogan 19:20 Yes. Well, well-

Jack Carr 19:20 For me, that's as fast as I wanna go.

Joe Rogan 19:22 The all-f... All-time four-wheel-drive system robs it of a lot of horsepower.

Jack Carr 19:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:26 So, I think it has like 560 normally.

Jack Carr 19:29 Well, that's not too shabby.

Joe Rogan 19:30 But it gets it down to like 360 at the wheels.

Jack Carr 19:33 Oh, really? Okay, got it.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Somewhere around that. 380, something like that.

Jack Carr 19:35 Got it.

Joe Rogan 19:36 I forget what he said. But it's plenty fast for that car.

Jack Carr 19:38 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:39 But what it is, man, is a d... It's so capable.

Jack Carr 19:42 Yeah. It is.

Joe Rogan 19:42 Like during the freeze last year, I was having the time of my life.

Jack Carr 19:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:46 Everybody was freaking out, like 'cause I have those like excellent off-road tires.

Jack Carr 19:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Huge clearance.

Jack Carr 19:52 Nice.

Joe Rogan 19:52 So, I'm driving through snow and everything.

Jack Carr 19:54 It's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 19:54 And, and it just handled everything like, oh. It was... You know, it was like, it was like the same... Like, I have a, a golden retriever, and he never gets to see snow, but when he does get to see snow-

Jack Carr 20:04 Freaks out.

Joe Rogan 20:04 ... he goes crazy. He runs around in circles-

Jack Carr 20:06 Nice.

Joe Rogan 20:06 ... and then dives in it, rolls around on his back.

Jack Carr 20:08 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 20:08 That's what the car was doing. The truck was going like, "Yeah! This is... It's time to party."

Jack Carr 20:12 Nice. Yep. It's in its element.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Jack Carr 20:14 Rather than just perfect weather all the time, on the street.

Joe Rogan 20:16 Yes.

Jack Carr 20:17 So.

Joe Rogan 20:17 But we both love those old Land Cruisers.

Jack Carr 20:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Like your FJ62 that you have.

Jack Carr 20:21 That's right.

Joe Rogan 20:22 That's a...

Jack Carr 20:22 That's it.

Joe Rogan 20:22 God, that's a beautiful car.

Jack Carr 20:23 It is.

Joe Rogan 20:24 Such a classic.

Jack Carr 20:24 And it's a sleeper, too. You know, it doesn't look like it from the outside, but if you know what to look for, you do the double-take. So, I like that.

Joe Rogan 20:29 And James Reese loves those, too.

Jack Carr 20:30 And, uh, James Reese loves those, too.

Joe Rogan 20:31 (laughs)

Jack Carr 20:31 And I think the one is coming from the show.

Joe Rogan 20:34 Far out.

Jack Carr 20:34 It's on the show, so it's on its way to the house, I think. I don't have it yet.

Joe Rogan 20:37 Oh, they're gonna give it to you?

Jack Carr 20:38 Well, I have to purchase it, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:39 Really? They should just give it to you.

Jack Carr 20:40 That'd be nice, but-

Joe Rogan 20:41 They fucking wrote the show, Jesus Christ.

Jack Carr 20:42 ... they had to rent it, uh, they would... They had to rent it from somebody who they had to convince to then sell to them to give to me, or to sell to me or whatever.

Joe Rogan 20:48 So, this is the fourth book?

Jack Carr 20:50 This is book number five, yep.

Joe Rogan 20:51 Number five, the fifth book.

Jack Carr 20:52 Book number five right here, the one that you're listening to, s- semi-naked in the sauna.

Joe Rogan 20:57 Yeah, semi-naked. (laughs)

Jack Carr 20:57 And, uh, read by... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:59 Fully clothed for s- for the sauna.

Jack Carr 21:01 Read, (laughs) read by, read by Ray Porter, um, but-

Joe Rogan 21:04 He's great.

Jack Carr 21:04 He is awesome. He is so... And such a nice guy. Such a nice guy, too.

Joe Rogan 21:07 Is he?

Jack Carr 21:07 Oh, such a good guy.

Joe Rogan 21:08 He does a great job. He does a great job with, with, uh, different accents, too.

Jack Carr 21:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:11 'Cause he has to go one accent to the other.

Jack Carr 21:13 Yep.

Joe Rogan 21:13 He's gone like South African to Russian, back to American.

Jack Carr 21:16 Yep.

Joe Rogan 21:17 He's really-

Jack Carr 21:17 He's doing it all.

Joe Rogan 21:18 What does he sound like in real life?

Jack Carr 21:19 He's... Ah, gosh, he has a voice. He has like a, a traditionally, diff- classically-trained Shakespearean actor. So, he spent, I think, 20 years up in Oregon at the Shakespeare Festival up there. He's been... He was in Almost Famous, the movie. He's been on Sons of Anarchy. He's been on a ton of different shows.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 21:34 He played, uh, Darkseid in the new, uh, the Snyder Cut of, uh, Justice League.

Joe Rogan 21:38 Oh.

Jack Carr 21:38 So, that's him. That's him and his voice, and, uh, but he's... Yeah. Now, he does so much narration, but he's at the top of that pyramid as far as narrators go. Does such a good job.

Joe Rogan 21:45 No, he's really good 'cause it's, it's rough when... Like, somebody recommended a book to me recently, and I, I just started listening, but the guy doing the narration just sucked.

Jack Carr 21:54 Mm.

Joe Rogan 21:55 It just was... I didn't like his voice.

Jack Carr 21:57 Yeah, that can be a... Yeah, that can be a detriment. But, uh, Simon & Schuster sent me 'cause I'm not a... Really an audiobook listener. I'm a reader, have been my whole life. And so, they sent me a clip of somebody who they were recommending for the first novel. And I listened to it, I hit the button, and I was like, "Ugh," and I wrote... This guy sounded really old, and I was like, "I don't think this is the right fit." So, I wrote back, and no one's bought a single book yet. No one even knows who I am. I'm not coming from-

Joe Rogan 22:18 Right.

Jack Carr 22:18 ... politics, not coming from sports. I have no social media presence, zero. And I wrote back, and I said, "Uh, can I pick somebody else? This guy didn't sound right." And they said, "Yeah." And I said, "Well, how much time do I have?" And they're like, "Ah, end of business today."

Joe Rogan 22:30 (laughs)

Jack Carr 22:30 And I'm like looking at my watch in Utah, and I'm like, I know how seriously they take their weekends in publishing in New York. And I'm like, "Oh, geez." So, I just started listening to samples, and then I found Ray Porter. And then I started listening to the more of those samples on Audible of things that he'd done, and I said, "This is the guy." I had no idea that he was like the top narrator in the, in the country, in the world. And, uh, so I sent it to Simon & Schuster and said, "Hey, how about this guy?" And they said, "Well, we can ask him." And then he said yes.

Joe Rogan 22:52 Oh, that's nice.

Jack Carr 22:52 Yeah. And he brought a whole fan base to it. I didn't realize people follow narrators from project to project now.

Joe Rogan 22:57 Oh, that's interesting.

Jack Carr 22:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Yes.

Jack Carr 22:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:59 It makes sense because he's really good.

Jack Carr 23:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:01 It makes sense that you would assume that if he's also attached to a project, that it would have to be a good project.

Jack Carr 23:07 Yep, yep. That-

Joe Rogan 23:07 Did he get a chance to read it before? Did you just send a ch- few chapters? Like, how did he-

Jack Carr 23:12 I don't know how they did that. They must've sent, uh... I think he just said yes. I think he just looked at the bio and was like, "Oh, that would be..." Yeah, I think he just did it as a... To be a nice guy.

Joe Rogan 23:20 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 23:20 And then he ends up, we ended up being great friends. And it was up for... First one was up for Audiobook of the Year next to Stephen King and Ruth Ware. And we went to New York in front of the tuxes for the, uh, the Audibles, which is like the Academy Awards of the audible industry, um.

Joe Rogan 23:31 Now, when you have a m- a movie or a, a, a film version of these books, these books starring this, this gentleman that you've created, this James Reese guy, these books are insanely violent. Like, there are, there are wild moments in this book where I'm like, "Ooh." When, when I first found out that you guys were gonna do an, an Amazon series, I was like, "How are they gonna show this?"

Jack Carr 23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:57 Like, and how much are they gonna show, and how much are you gonna leave to the imagination?

Jack Carr 24:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:02 'Cause in the book, it's super graphic.

Jack Carr 24:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:05 There's some-... graphic shit.

Jack Carr 24:07 Yeah. Yeah. So that was- I mean, it's an issue. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:10 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 24:10 But it was so interesting to, uh, to see it come to life and to see the Amazon make their notes. 'Cause you do these scripts and then they get approved, and then it's like planning something in a boardroom or planning something in a mission planning space in the military where it's air conditioned and you're talking through things and you're looking at the maps and you're saying, "Okay, we're gonna put a blocking force here. We'll have, uh, the predator over here, AC-130s on station for this amount of time." And you plan it out perfectly, and then you leave the gate to the base in Iraq and Afghanistan and you get out there and then things change, uh, for whatever reason. Maybe you hit an IED or you get out there and you're like, "Wait a second. That mountain, even though it looks a little higher in m- Oh, okay, this isn't exactly how we thought it was gonna be." Same thing with the scripts, in that you get out there to start filming and you're on set or you're in an area location and you look at round and you're like, "Oh, this is not working with how we envisioned this." And you have to morph it on the fly right there. And then the actors bring something to it, too. Like Chris Pratt brings something to the character. Jeanne Tripplehorn's amazing, she brings something to it. They all bring these different elements that affect episode two, three, four, five, six, seven. So it snowballs and morphs for other episodes and affects those down the line. So you have to edit as you go. So things change, uh, throughout the whole process. But Amazon, every change, you have to send it up the chain. Just like in the military, it goes up to the top-

Joe Rogan 25:21 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 25:21 ... and then it comes back down. And, uh, they're-

Joe Rogan 25:23 Does it go up to Bezos?

Jack Carr 25:25 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 25:25 It should.

Jack Carr 25:26 But, uh-

Joe Rogan 25:26 Bezos looks like he's jacked lately. I think he's all hopped up on testosterone.

Jack Carr 25:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:30 I think he might have approved-

Jack Carr 25:31 Possible.

Joe Rogan 25:31 ... some radical shit now.

Jack Carr 25:32 (laughs) It's possible.

Joe Rogan 25:33 You just get a hold of him, give him a shot of whiskey.

Jack Carr 25:34 It should, yeah, maybe-

Joe Rogan 25:35 Come on, Jeff.

Jack Carr 25:36 Come on.

Joe Rogan 25:36 Let's make some fucking history.

Jack Carr 25:38 Give this three... Give this a thumbs up, buddy.

Joe Rogan 25:39 Yeah.

Jack Carr 25:39 Yeah. So it's, uh, it comes back down with their notes and there were some concerns there about the violence, for sure. And so they, uh-

Joe Rogan 25:45 Yeah, but, uh, they had to have read the book.

Jack Carr 25:48 Yeah. I, well, I don't know how that works up there at those levels, but, uh, but I'm still shocked about a few things. But they came down on the right side of it every single time.

Joe Rogan 25:57 Really?

Jack Carr 25:57 Yeah. So there's a couple scenes in there, and people who have read the first book in particular will know the ones that we're, we're talking about. But the most, the, the comment that I got the most when I said that this book is being turned into a film, uh, or to a series, people would say, "Oh, they're never, Amazon's never gonna let this be shown." Or-

Joe Rogan 26:12 Yeah.

Jack Carr 26:12 ... "Hey, I hope they leave this scene in." Like, those are the two things that I got, and Amazon left this in. They, uh, they had concerns about this one very graphic scene and it's in there, and now it's like one of the iconic scenes of the show.

Joe Rogan 26:25 Wow.

Jack Carr 26:25 And, uh, and it's in there and like all the adverti- it's gonna be in the advertising and all the rest of it when that hits here shortly. Um, but, uh, but yeah, they left it in. They came down on the right side of everything we wanted every single time, which is, uh, a little bit shocking because you hear about, uh, hey, they're only making things for people in LA and New York and forgetting about the country in between that really has this hunger for, uh, for good content that's not just flooded with all these things that not, might not necessarily connect with, uh, with lot of the people in the mi- middle of the country. And, uh, and they kept it all, all in, so...

Joe Rogan 26:53 The middle of the country. How weird is that?

Jack Carr 26:55 Isn't it? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:56 So how, how is that real? Like, what's going on? Like what, like the whole (laughs) the like, this, this idea that like there's parts of the country that are so different than other parts of the country. It's almost like we have different countries wrapped... I mean, it's almost like Europe, right? Where there's different parts of Europe, you travel a little bit and you're in a place that speaks a totally different language.

Jack Carr 27:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 But this, this like idea that the middle of the country is different than the edges of the country is very strange.

Jack Carr 27:22 Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, it's more a, uh, you know, figurative way of putting it, but it's really, um, you know, talking about cont- Like, the first person that takes advantage of making content and, and, uh, having production levels at such a high level that isn't infused with all these things that people are kinda tired of, uh, that person's gonna doing-

Joe Rogan 27:41 I like how you went-

Jack Carr 27:41 ... dancing around what it is. The woke shit.

Joe Rogan 27:43 The woke shit.

Jack Carr 27:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:44 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:44 The woke shit.

Joe Rogan 27:45 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:45 I wonder how long that's gonna keep going for.

Joe Rogan 27:47 I don't know.

Jack Carr 27:47 'Cause it doesn't seem like it's abating. It seems like what's happening is the pushback against it is getting more loud-

Joe Rogan 27:55 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:55 ... and people getting more angry that it's being shoved down their throats.

Joe Rogan 27:58 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:58 But it doesn't seem to be stopping the amount of woke stuff-

Joe Rogan 28:02 Yeah.

Jack Carr 28:02 ... that's being put out. So, it's interesting.

Joe Rogan 28:04 It is. And, uh, and it, and there's definitely an opportunity there for somebody-

Jack Carr 28:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:08 ... who wants to buy a bunch of sound stages maybe in Atlanta and, uh, bring in people that can create things with this super hyperpo- and make movies just the kind of like we like to see, without all this other political stuff in there.

Jack Carr 28:18 Wasn't Daily Wire doing that?

Joe Rogan 28:19 I don't know.

Jack Carr 28:19 They're, they're trying to do like right wing versions of things. Like, they hired Gina Carano right after-

Joe Rogan 28:25 Yeah.

Jack Carr 28:25 ... she got fired from the Mandalorian-

Joe Rogan 28:27 Yeah.

Jack Carr 28:28 ... for... I mean, essentially she was just talking about how we, there's like a tendency in human beings to oth- to, to think of other people that think differently than, than you as being others. They're not us, they're others. And, you know, she equated it to the Holocaust. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Which is like, uh. As soon as you do that, people are like, "Oh, boy, don't fucking-"

Jack Carr 28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:54 "... compare anything to the Holocaust."

Jack Carr 28:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:56 And then they fired her. But I don't think that what she said was outrageous or-

Jack Carr 28:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:59 ... egregious or awful. I think she was just trying to say that this political divide in this country that separates people and is so polarizing-

Jack Carr 29:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:09 ... is unhealthy. And it's, there's a natural tribal instinct that people have to look at people from other tribes as being the enemy.

Jack Carr 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 And that we were doing this in this country.

Jack Carr 29:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:17 But she unfortunately compared it to the Holocaust and they just fired her. So the Daily Wire immediately, um, hired her after that, and then they just did a, a western that looks wild. They were, um-

Jack Carr 29:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:29 ... they showed the, uh, trailer for it at the last UFC.

Jack Carr 29:32 Nice.

Joe Rogan 29:33 And I was like, "Oh my God." It was the Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone's in it and Gina Carano.

Jack Carr 29:36 Yeah, I saw them filming that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:37 It looks wild. It looks wild. Like, I don't, I don't know if it's good. I haven't seen it.

Jack Carr 29:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:41 But man, the trailer looks sick.

Jack Carr 29:43 Well, I'm gonna check that out for sure. I think Gina's, I think she's coming to the Sig Hunter Games this, uh, this year. I'm not, maybe I'm not supposed to say that. But, uh, last year I was there with Bullet Valentino and so we were out there.

Joe Rogan 29:53 She's awesome.

Jack Carr 29:54 She is so great. And we were partners-

Joe Rogan 29:55 Damn.

Jack Carr 29:55 ... in this, we were sniper partners-

Joe Rogan 29:57 Yeah.

Jack Carr 29:57 ... in this long range shooting competition. Me, her, and then a guide, an elk guide from Oregon. And, uh, so we went through, we got second place, uh, you know, first-

Joe Rogan 30:04 She has some serious gun skills.

Jack Carr 30:06 She does. She-

Joe Rogan 30:07 Serious gun skills.

Jack Carr 30:07 I was down in Brazil, she was saying that she did, uh, like IDPA stuff down there.

Joe Rogan 30:10 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 30:10 So mostly, mostly handgun stuff. But when I met her, we went up to Oregon and we got to the range and, uh, I hadn't, I hadn't met her yet, but I see her and she is focused. She's on the range and she is like learning and she is, uh, like you can just tell that it is different than the other people who are on the range getting used to their rifles. And she is just, I mean, she is so focused on there. Nothing else was coming in. And then she got up and-... totally switched off and was like, "Oh, hey. Nice to meet you. Hey, we're going to be partners." And she was so fantastic.

Joe Rogan 30:35 Yeah.

Jack Carr 30:36 Um, and she cru- I mean, it was a, a long 12 different stations and you're shooting, I think, four different targets three times each. Um, and you have to find them, shoot them, you know, time limits and all that. But you're ba- you're packing through this, you know, the high country in Wyoming and, uh, yeah. That was a put out evolution. And I've been-

Joe Rogan 30:53 She's a scary lady.

Jack Carr 30:54 (laughs) Well, yeah, in the ring. But she is, uh, but in, you know, as we're just getting to know each other and hanging out around the campfire, and she was so nice. So cool. Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 31:02 Oh, she's wonderful. I mean, she's been on my podcast.

Jack Carr 31:04 Yeah, yeah. I remember.

Joe Rogan 31:04 She's a wonderful lady. But I mean, she's scary in her competence, in her, her abilities, and her-

Jack Carr 31:08 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:08 ... her focus and her intensity.

Jack Carr 31:09 And she crushed it out there. She crushed it. But it was so cool to get second place. And interesting, we, we beat a bunch of other people, uh, that had some military background and stuff like that. But the people that beat us? It was like a bass fisherman and like a BMX racer, like, they-

Joe Rogan 31:21 (laughs)

Jack Carr 31:21 And they were way in front of us. Like, they really beat us. Uh, but it was still cool to get, uh, get second because I've been doing a lot more typing recently than I've been doing, doing shooting, um. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 31:29 She's an avid shooter.

Jack Carr 31:31 She's so good. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Yeah. She, she, when a lot, oftentimes when she's in camp, when she goes to places, like she'll show up at a range, a local range, uh, and, and get some practicing in.

Jack Carr 31:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:41 I think it like helps relax her and calms her down.

Jack Carr 31:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:43 But the people that I've talked to that have seen her shoot go-

Jack Carr 31:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:46 ... "Man, she's really skilled."

Jack Carr 31:47 Oh, yeah. She is focused.

Joe Rogan 31:48 Yeah.

Jack Carr 31:48 So yeah, we had a great time together. I think she's going back this year. I couldn't 'cause we have to do some filming stuff for, for Amazon here for some, uh, like behind the scenes interview stuff that week. But, uh, but it's a, that's a great event out there. SIG really puts it on. The Cowboy was there too.

Joe Rogan 31:59 Oh, nice.

Jack Carr 31:59 So we got to hang out there and, and, uh, and we talking about the, uh, the thing he was gonna do with Gina and-

Joe Rogan 32:04 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:04 ... it was just, just super cool. But, but going back to that, uh, the, the, uh, the Hollywood side of the house, it's not necessarily I don't think that someone needs to take advantage of there being a gap and go totally right wing.

Joe Rogan 32:15 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 32:16 It's just make a movie without... Just make a good movie.

Joe Rogan 32:18 Right. Don't make a movie-

Jack Carr 32:19 Just make a great movie.

Joe Rogan 32:20 ... and try to force things down people's throats. Just make a good fiction movie.

Jack Carr 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:24 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:24 Yeah. Like, I mean, in the '80s, we go back, I'm trying to think. There were some, I'm sure there are some with political bents and, you know, that, that's fine. But there were some great films.

Joe Rogan 32:31 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:31 Some great '80s action movies that didn't have, weren't infused with things from either side. It was just fun to sit down and experience.

Joe Rogan 32:37 Right.

Jack Carr 32:37 And then you could look up to those characters too. Uh, like Rocky films, obviously starting in the '70s, but continuing to go on today. I mean, those were so influential-

Joe Rogan 32:45 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:45 ... for an entire generation. And what a great message. I mean, underdog, you know, getting the shot-

Joe Rogan 32:51 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 32:51 ... putting in the work, getting knocked down. You know, it's just so many great things. Like, I mean, they're like mentors without having an actual mentor like that.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Well, that's, uh, that's a, a movie that was written by Stallone.

Jack Carr 33:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 And, you know, they wanted other people to play him.

Jack Carr 33:02 Oh, yeah. In the old office.

Joe Rogan 33:03 And he said no.

Jack Carr 33:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:04 He held in there and-

Jack Carr 33:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 33:05 ... and then became an iconic character.

Jack Carr 33:07 Such a great story. Such a great story how all that, all that came about.

Joe Rogan 33:10 (laughs)

Jack Carr 33:10 And how he didn't let anybody, uh, do it and it was just... And obviously it changed the course of his life.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Uh, did you bring the James Reese books to someone else first or did you just go straight to Amazon? And how did you know where to be? 'Cause I would imagine with this particular character and these particular adventures that he goes on, they're so intense.

Jack Carr 33:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:33 And it's so deeply connected to your past as a SEAL-

Jack Carr 33:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:38 ... that it has to be very personal.

Jack Carr 33:40 It is.

Joe Rogan 33:40 And you, you can't... Like, if someone tried to inject wokeism into the James Reese books, you'd be like, "Oh, Jesus Christ, what are you doing?" You can't do that.

Jack Carr 33:48 Yeah. And I didn't know how it was gonna be when I got to New York Publishing, you know, not kno- known for, for being a bastion of conservatism, um, but I didn't-

Joe Rogan 33:55 But it seems like b- at least in au- fictional books, you're allowed to... You know, because it's, it's not... You can't take it out as a clip and put it out there for people to get angry at.

Jack Carr 34:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:07 It's, you have to read-

Jack Carr 34:08 You have to put in the work.

Joe Rogan 34:09 And, and it's also-

Jack Carr 34:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:10 ... it's like you're taking into consideration the fact that there's good characters and bad characters and you have to show the evil side of man.

Jack Carr 34:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:18 You have to show the, the, the character and-

Jack Carr 34:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:21 ... and, and good nature. There's so much going on there that you can't monkey with that too much.

Jack Carr 34:25 Yep. No, I've had complete creative control. That was the... 'Cause I didn't know, I didn't have anything, any touch points with publishing or with Hollywood before this. And I was, I was kind of wondering when I first started down this path and Simon & Schuster first read it, uh, I was wondering, "Hey, are they gonna say, 'Hey, take... Lighten up on the Second Amendment stuff?' Or, 'Hey, do you really have to, uh, talk about the freedom so much as your character have to have these opinions?" And they never even mentioned that. Have never even hinted at having to do that. So I've had-

Joe Rogan 34:50 Well-

Jack Carr 34:50 ... complete creative control the entire time which is great.

Joe Rogan 34:52 What kind of notes did they give you?

Jack Carr 34:53 Because... Almost zero, other than, um, and I think a lot of that has to do with this podcast because I heard Steven Pressfield on this podcast, and I misinterpreted something that he said. He was talking about a playwright that used to write a sentence or two that would keep him on theme for a play. And in my mind, somehow that translated into Steven Pressfield used a yellow sticky note and put one word on it, and that kept him on theme for his books. And so I wrote revenge-

Joe Rogan 35:19 Ooh.

Jack Carr 35:19 ... and had that on a yellow sticky, and that just kept me on theme, whether it was directly or indirectly, more importantly, tied to that theme. So I think by the time it got to New York and they read it, I had, had stayed on theme that there are only content edits from Emily Bestler at Emily Bestler Books, who is just amazing. Uh, she's the only person I wanted to be my publisher-editor, um, because I saw her thanked in the back in the acknowledgement section of Brad Thor's books and Vince Flynn's books. So I just decided as I was writing, and had no connections anywhere, to, uh, decide that she would be my publisher and editor.

Joe Rogan 35:49 (laughs)

Jack Carr 35:49 And, uh, and then she ended up being my publisher-editor. But, uh, she said, "Hey, would he really do this here? Would he really say this here?" And one other thing that I can't remember.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Hmm.

Jack Carr 35:56 Um, so those are like the three notes and that's it.

Joe Rogan 35:59 Wow.

Jack Carr 35:59 Um, so she, so I've had complete creative control there. Uh, it's been amazing, the whole, the whole journey. But then the Hollywood side of the house is, I got a call from my friend Jared Shaw a few months before the book came out. And he was a SEAL with me and I hadn't talked to him in five years and he calls me and he says, "Hey, man, do you remember me?" And I did. And he said, "Do you remember what you did for me in the SEAL teams?" And I did not. And he said, "All right. Uh, you sat me down in your office. You're the only person that talked to me about getting out of the military. You introduced me to people in the private sector. You're the only person that cared to do that, and I've always wanted to thank you." And I said, "No problem, man. How's it going?" And he said, "It's going great, but I heard you have a book coming out." And I said, "Yeah, it's coming out in a few months. I can give you a galley copy, which is like a rough draft." And he said, "I'd like that, but I'd like to give it to a friend of mine." And I'm like, "Ah, no problem. Who's that?" And he said, "Chris Pratt."So, uh, and I... Chris Pratt was the person that I thought of playing the role as I was typing. So, as I started, it's just... As a child of the '80s, it's very natural to think of some Hollywood star that's going to bring your story to life. And I thought of Chris Pratt because he had done nothing like this before. He'd... Uh, most of the things had been, uh,, it was only really Guardians, or not even Guardians of the Galaxy, not Avengers, uh, not Jurassic World yet. It was only Andy Dwyer on Parks and Rec.

Joe Rogan 37:08 Really?

Jack Carr 37:09 And, uh, and then he played a SEAL in Zero Dark Thirty. So, I saw the-

Joe Rogan 37:11 Oh.

Jack Carr 37:11 ... transformation from Andy Dwyer to a SEAL, and I thought, "This is the guy." He's inherently likable. Um, I just have this connection with him already. I don't know how, but this is the guy that's gonna do it. And so for Jared then to be, to be best friends with Chris, to give him the book, and then Chris read it in the last week of December of 2017, called the next week and wanted to option it.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Wow.

Jack Carr 37:33 So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:34 Fate is a weird thing-

Jack Carr 37:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:35 ... because everybody wants to pooh-pooh fate, you know?

Jack Carr 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:39 And it's, uh... Me too. I pooh-pooh it. It's t-

Jack Carr 37:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:42 I'm like, "Eh, come on." It's just random events.

Jack Carr 37:44 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 37:44 But I... Sometimes I wonder.

Jack Carr 37:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:46 Sometimes I wonder if stuff was, like, meant to be.

Jack Carr 37:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 Like, sometimes I wonder that if you write something and put it out there, and you really focus and really dedicate yourself to creating the best work that you can, like you have done with your books, that it'll attract the right person to play the p- the role-

Jack Carr 38:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:03 ... if it ever becomes a, a theatrical representation of it.

Jack Carr 38:06 It's crazy. And then as, as I was writing it also, without any sort of touch points with Hollywood or New York, um, I thought of Antoine Fuqua directing.

Joe Rogan 38:13 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 38:14 And, uh, and now... And he got it at the same time Chris did through another buddy. He gave it to Antoine. He wanted it.

Joe Rogan 38:20 I forgot he was directing it. That's so awesome.

Jack Carr 38:22 He is so fantastic. He is... I can't even... Like, before this, before I knew him, I thought, "Oh, amazing director." That was my-

Joe Rogan 38:27 What has he done? What are those-

Jack Carr 38:28 So, it was Training Day-

Joe Rogan 38:29 Right.

Jack Carr 38:29 ... with Denzel Washington. That's the one. He did Replacement Killers before that. Uh, Training Day with Denzel Washington, which obviously is in- incredible.

Joe Rogan 38:35 Incredible.

Jack Carr 38:36 Um, and then he did Tears of the Sun. He's done Magnificent Seven. He's done-

Joe Rogan 38:39 Oh, yeah.

Jack Carr 38:39 ... Equalizer, uh, Shooter, uh, which is based on Stephen Hunter's book, Point of Impact. And I just love everything that he's done. But now that I know him, now he is much more than a great director. I mean, he is a visionary, and he is s-

Joe Rogan 38:52 He did Southpaw too, huh?

Jack Carr 38:53 He is such a great person. That's the be-

Joe Rogan 38:55 Wow.

Jack Carr 38:56 Like, like just the salt of the earth, amazing guy. Could not be in better hands, because when you give something like this to someone you, you're... Is a lot of trust involved.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Mm.

Jack Carr 39:05 Um, because they can butcher it. Uh-

Joe Rogan 39:06 Oh, sure. Yeah.

Jack Carr 39:07 And for, for Antoine and for Chris, and now we're all three executive producers on this. So Chris... Antoine called Chris and was like, "Hey, I know we both have this thing, but, uh, let- let's just partner up and do it together." And Chris was like, "Let's do it."

Joe Rogan 39:17 Wow.

Jack Carr 39:18 And so, um, so yeah, the... For them, they wanted this series to be rooted in the dark, gritty, primal, violent nature of the novel. So, any changes had to be rooted in that foundation. And then David Digilio, who's the showrunner, who is like, uh, like, uh... There's eight parts to this, so there's multiple directors. Antoine is the first director, and then there, uh, he stayed involved in doing all the, the editing throughout. So yeah, there he is.

Joe Rogan 39:39 Look at that.

Jack Carr 39:39 There we are right there. Look at that.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Look at that.

Jack Carr 39:41 Yep. And look at this. And all, most of these guys are SEALs. Uh, there's a Marine in the back there somewhere with a dog. Yep, right there. Yep, Call of Duty Rex right there. Jared Shaw on the left, that's my buddy who gave it. Patrick Schwarzenegger is right behind me right there. So, I think the only two non-military are Chris Pratt in the middle and Patrick Schwarzenegger right there.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Wait, Patrick Schwarzenegger, like Arnold-

Jack Carr 40:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:00 ... Schwarzenegger's son?

Jack Carr 40:01 Yep. Right there.

Joe Rogan 40:02 Shut the fuck up.

Jack Carr 40:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:02 He acts now?

Jack Carr 40:03 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, he's great.

Joe Rogan 40:05 Wow.

Jack Carr 40:05 He was... And he was so awesome. He was so great in this. Uh, all these guys are. So, I served the guy to Chris's left right there, um, that's Ryan Sangster, and he, uh, does some stunt doubling on SEAL Team CBS, and just another great guy. We were in Iraq together. Um, Kenny Sheard, right behind him right there, he writes, uh, in Hollywood now, writes for SEAL Team CBS. Um, but all these guys are just fantastic. And obviously me and Antoine right there, and... S- uh, such a great guy.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Have you, because of these... Sorry. Because of these books, have you... Do you think it's opened doors for other SEALs to start writing and, and making things into, you know, these sort of stories of similar things to what they've experienced, that they realize this is kind of a path out o-... Once you're, you know, you've retired from the SEALs or you- you've decided that you've, you've done your time and... To pursue other things in life, that sort of using those life experiences to create these realistic interpretations, realistic versions-

Jack Carr 41:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:03 ... of, of that. Does, does that, like, uh, a new sort of pathway now?

Jack Carr 41:07 I don't know. I think it's more, hey, identifying that passion. So, mine happened to be writing.

Joe Rogan 41:11 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 41:11 I happened to know that this is exactly what I wanted to do. But it's not what everybody wants to do. But being able to r- to, to listen to the call. So my call was to serve us in the military and then to write these thrillers. I listened to the call both of those. Um, but a lot of people don't listen to that call, or they get discouraged or something along the way. But for people to, I, uh, what I hope anyway is that if anybody takes anything from this journey, um, whether it's the military or transitioning from anything in life, whether it's the, uh, job transition, death of a loved one, divorce, it can be any sort of transition in life, is identifying that passion and figuring out your mission and putting those two together to give you purpose going forward. Um, so if there's anything, uh, that people can take from, from this or from my journey, that's it, I think. But there's a lot of... SEALs and Army Rangers. Max Adams is, uh, Army Ranger. So, Max Adams, Army Ranger, wrote on the show. Uh, Jared Shaw was there every day. And, uh, Ray Mendoza, who has War Office Productions. Those three guys, military, were on set every single day with the actors, with, uh, with the showrunner, with the directors. And without them, this would be a very different show.

Joe Rogan 42:14 Mm.

Jack Carr 42:14 But they were there every single day, and they were so invested because we're all so close. And I went out there, like, five times for, for a week each, and, uh, so I got to be there in- intermittently. But they were there every single day. And, uh, they were so close, they wanted to do such a good job with it. So, I'm, I'm so indebted to those guys for being there, and for David Digilio, the showrunner, um, for trusting us, for trusting them with every single decision that came down to tactics or reality and authenticity. Um, there's no product placement in this. No one paid, which I think is unusual. No-... no companies paid for product placement because-

Joe Rogan 42:46 That's unusual?

Jack Carr 42:47 I think so. I think-

Joe Rogan 42:48 Really?

Jack Carr 42:48 ... they usually have like a, you know, if you pick something up, like, "Hey, Coca-Cola."

Joe Rogan 42:51 Coca-Cola. Yeah.

Jack Carr 42:51 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:52 Yeah.

Jack Carr 42:52 So I think that's usually some sort of a deal in there. But nothing like that for this. It was all, um, based on the gear that we actually use, gear that I talk about in the books, things that are so personal to me, other SEALs, other operators. Um, so all that stuff is in there because I think Amazon realized how important that was to that fan base and how it would just take somebody out of it if you, if you're a police officer or a first responder or military, and you're like, "We'd never do that. I'd never carry that thing. I'd never wear that."

Joe Rogan 43:16 Right.

Jack Carr 43:16 It just takes you out of it for a little bit. So there's none of... No, no, no, no company could play, pay for product placement in this. It was all-

Joe Rogan 43:22 Is-

Jack Carr 43:22 ... them makes-

Joe Rogan 43:22 Was that a decision that was made before the film was started, before the filming rather-

Jack Carr 43:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:26 ... started?

Jack Carr 43:26 Yeah. I think it was, uh, the, the showrunner knew how important that was. And-

Joe Rogan 43:29 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 43:29 ... Antoine and Chris were just all about authenticity and all about, uh, veterans watching this.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 43:35 And not being taken out of it like by rolling their eyes and saying, "Oh, Hollywood screwed it up again."

Joe Rogan 43:39 Is that-

Jack Carr 43:39 Even though it's fiction.

Joe Rogan 43:40 When, when things like that happen, when there are product placements in a show, is that initiated by the, the producers of the show, the network? Is it i- is- is initiated by the write-

Jack Carr 43:49 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 43:50 I mean, are they trying to generate income to offset the cost of the production? Like how-

Jack Carr 43:53 Probably. I have no idea, 'cause it wasn't a part of this show, so I have no idea-

Joe Rogan 43:55 Just, just so from-

Jack Carr 43:56 ... how it really works.

Joe Rogan 43:56 ... the beginning, you decided no, no, no commercial-

Jack Carr 44:00 Yeah. I think that was, I'm, I'm guessing-

Joe Rogan 44:01 ... placement?

Jack Carr 44:01 ... it was David Digilio and the, the, the senior executives, uh, uh, at Amazon, I'm guessing. But, um, but they just knew how important it was. And, uh, I mean, I think it's very unusual. So those, uh, yeah, I couldn't be more, couldn't be more thrilled with how, how this turned out. It's just a, was such a good team. <|agent|><|en|>

Joe Rogan 44:16 And how'd you guys wind up at Amazon?

Jack Carr 44:18 Well, Chris... So, uh, in December of 2019, uh, Chris and Antoine, um, linked me up with the showrunner, David Digilio. And usually, they like to get rid of the author right away because the author could be on set saying, "You ruined my vision."

Joe Rogan 44:30 Right, right, right.

Jack Carr 44:30 And it just becomes an issue. So they usually like to get rid of the author. Um, but, uh, Chris and Antoine wanted me involved.

Joe Rogan 44:35 Hmm.

Jack Carr 44:35 So they connected me with the, the showrunner, uh, the first week that he got hired. And he kind of, we kind of felt each other out, him really feeling me out and seeing if am I gonna just be a pain this whole time. And, uh, we hit it off right away. And we've talked every day since (laughs) to include this morning. And, uh, and we wrote... Well, he wrote the pilot episode, and I was just learning. And he really mentored me along, taught me about screenwriting. And I got to advise on that pilot episode and i- I'd advise on all the scripts, but primarily that, uh, that pilot episode we worked together on. Um, but then he took it with Chris and Antoine, and they shopped it around and went to Netflix and Amazon and Showtime and HBO and Hulu and Apple. And it got into some sort of a bit of a bidding war at some point, and Amazon ended up with it, so-

Joe Rogan 45:15 Wow.

Jack Carr 45:15 Yeah. Crazy.

Joe Rogan 45:16 So they wanted it the most-

Jack Carr 45:17 They wanted it the most.

Joe Rogan 45:17 ... which is perfect.

Jack Carr 45:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:18 Nice.

Jack Carr 45:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:19 Wow, that's amazing.

Jack Carr 45:20 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 45:20 I think they're the best place for it anyway because-

Jack Carr 45:22 I think so.

Joe Rogan 45:22 ... it's like they have some great shows, and they're kind of under the radar. And they have Reacher now-

Jack Carr 45:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:28 ... which they did a... Boy, the difference between the Reacher from the Tom Cruise books and this guy, this guy's perfect.

Jack Carr 45:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:34 What is his name? The fucking-

Jack Carr 45:35 He's a big boy.

Joe Rogan 45:35 ... big giant dude?

Jack Carr 45:36 I forget his name. I, that, uh... I forget his name. He's doing a great job.

Joe Rogan 45:38 Usada needs to test that guy immediately.

Jack Carr 45:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:41 Move in on him and check his pee.

Jack Carr 45:43 Yeah, yeah. But, uh, he does a great job.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Either way, he's perfect-

Jack Carr 45:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:46 ... perfect for that role.

Jack Carr 45:47 Yeah. Amazon cr- I mean, they were so great. I can't-

Joe Rogan 45:49 He's just-

Jack Carr 45:49 ... say it enough.

Joe Rogan 45:49 He's just-

Jack Carr 45:50 Fa- j- Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 45:51 (laughs)

Jack Carr 45:51 Size that fucker. Yeah. That's a big boy.

Joe Rogan 45:53 What is his name? Um-

Jack Carr 45:54 God.

Joe Rogan 45:54 Alon- Alan Richson-

Jack Carr 45:55 Richman. Richson.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Rich-

Jack Carr 45:56 That's it.

Joe Rogan 45:57 ... Richson. Alonson.

Jack Carr 45:57 And he seems like such a good guy. I've seen some interviews with him.

Joe Rogan 45:59 Yes.

Jack Carr 45:59 He seems like such a nice guy.

Joe Rogan 46:01 Yeah, seems like a sweetheart. But man, he's fucking-

Jack Carr 46:03 Big boy.

Joe Rogan 46:03 ... that's the perfect guy for that role.

Jack Carr 46:05 I think so.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Because that was the big complaint about, uh... I never read the, uh, the Reacher books.

Jack Carr 46:10 See Ali Child.

Joe Rogan 46:11 Yeah. The, the complaint was that the Jack Reacher in the books is this hulking man.

Jack Carr 46:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 46:16 And Tom Cruise is basically my size.

Jack Carr 46:18 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:18 So everybody's like, "Hey, this is not-"

Jack Carr 46:20 Yeah, except not as yoked maybe. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 46:22 Yeah, that's even worse.

Jack Carr 46:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:24 Like at least you could believe a, a short yolk guy-

Jack Carr 46:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:26 ... could fuck people up. But Tom Cruise is just out there- Yeah, the fans-

Jack Carr 46:28 That guy looks like-

Joe Rogan 46:29 Yeah. (laughs)

Jack Carr 46:30 ... the guy in the books.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Uh, it's making me feel inadequate. We're gonna have to change-

Jack Carr 46:32 A little bit.

Joe Rogan 46:33 ... that title. I feel a little better.

Jack Carr 46:34 Go back to that 1951 show, that 1951 series, uh-

Joe Rogan 46:36 Yeah, back when guys barely did pushups. (laughs)

Jack Carr 46:38 Exactly. Exactly. (laughs) You had what you had, you know?

Joe Rogan 46:40 (laughs)

Jack Carr 46:40 That was it. That was it. But, uh, but yeah, they heard Ali Child in an interview once, 'cause the fan base of the books was a little upset with Tom Cruise-

Joe Rogan 46:47 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 46:47 ... getting that, getting that role. Um, but I heard Ali Child say something and, and he's such an amazing guy. Ali Child has been so nice to me. Um, but he said, "Hey, there are worse things in the world than having Tom Cruise-"

Joe Rogan 46:58 Yeah.

Jack Carr 46:58 "... play your, your, your hero from your novels." Like-

Joe Rogan 47:00 Well, he's-

Jack Carr 47:01 ... very true.

Joe Rogan 47:01 ... pulled it off before when people complained, like Lestat when he played An Interview with the Vampire. Anne Rice's book had this, like, very intense, like-

Jack Carr 47:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:11 ... brooding, romantic, evil character who was the vampire.

Jack Carr 47:16 I remember.

Joe Rogan 47:16 And they were like, "Tom Cruise." People are like, "The fucking Risky Business guy?"

Jack Carr 47:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:20 "No."

Jack Carr 47:20 Yeah, yeah. Maverick.

Joe Rogan 47:21 Yeah.

Jack Carr 47:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:22 No!

Jack Carr 47:22 Yeah. And that one's coming out too. So Maverick's coming out soon.

Joe Rogan 47:25 Yeah.

Jack Carr 47:25 I saw it as, as I got here last night. It was playing on the big screen when I got off the plane in-

Joe Rogan 47:29 Yeah.

Jack Carr 47:29 ... the Austin airport. And so-

Joe Rogan 47:30 I'm sure that's gonna be good.

Jack Carr 47:30 ... that's coming out. Yeah, that's Skydance, uh-

Joe Rogan 47:32 But -

Jack Carr 47:32 ... David Nelsen does that one. So it's gonna be, that's gonna be... I can't wait to see that.

Joe Rogan 47:36 An Interview with the Vampire though, he fucking nailed it.

Jack Carr 47:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:38 I mean, Tom Cruise is weird as a guy the, as he is. He's a very weird guy. But I think you have to be weird to be that good.

Jack Carr 47:44 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 47:44 I mean-

Jack Carr 47:45 And maybe if you have that level of stardom too, it's tough. I, I don't know what I mean. I don't know, but-

Joe Rogan 47:48 Well, from the time he was a teenager.

Jack Carr 47:49 For a whole life.

Joe Rogan 47:50 You know, he's-

Jack Carr 47:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:51 ... he was in that Outsiders with Johnny Depp.

Jack Carr 47:54 He's so great. Those pictures are so fantastic.

Joe Rogan 47:56 It's wild.

Jack Carr 47:56 Those old ones from that... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:57 Wild.

Jack Carr 47:57 And the book is great too. For people who haven't read, uh, the book, Outsiders, and Rumble Fish also.

Joe Rogan 48:02 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 48:02 But all, that whole crew back then, when you see those pictures of them from the early '80s.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Yeah.

Jack Carr 48:05 I think it's fantastic. And then Taps and, uh, he's done an amazing job. Those people who have staying power in Hollywood over decades, um, 'cause if you look at a lot of, uh, actors' careers, it's like a 10-year period where they-

Joe Rogan 48:16 Yes.

Jack Carr 48:16 ... have this success and then, you know, they do things still, but maybe not at that level they had for this 10-year period where they just rocked.

Joe Rogan 48:21 Well, he is 60 years old and he's still-

Jack Carr 48:23 He's been doing it the whole time.

Joe Rogan 48:24 ... in great shape and he still looks really good. He looks like he's 40.

Jack Carr 48:28 There's a couple guys out there that look very similar to they did 30 years ago, like he's one of them.

Joe Rogan 48:32 Who else?

Jack Carr 48:33 I don't know. Uh, uh, who else? Um, Rob Lowe looks pretty...

Joe Rogan 48:38 Yeah, he looks great.

Jack Carr 48:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:39 He looks great. Somebody's-

Jack Carr 48:40 Somebody's guys.

Joe Rogan 48:41 Uh, Tom Cruise pull... keeps it up better than anybody.

Jack Carr 48:43 Yeah, I think so.

Joe Rogan 48:43 I don't know what he's doing. He's doing some weird Scientology-

Jack Carr 48:45 Maybe he made some sort of a-

Joe Rogan 48:45 ... shit. They got some fucking-

Jack Carr 48:46 Made some sort of a deal.

Joe Rogan 48:47 Maybe they got hyperbaric chambers he sleeps in or something.

Jack Carr 48:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Maybe, they're-

Jack Carr 48:50 Maybe he did some sort of a deal.

Joe Rogan 48:51 I don't know.

Jack Carr 48:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:52 I don't think so. I don't think that Scientologists believe in the devil, so...

Jack Carr 48:55 Ah, well, I don't know. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 48:57 (laughs)

Jack Carr 48:57 He's doing all right, though. I don't know. He's doing all right. But yeah, he's cr- he crushes everything, you know.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Does his own stunts.

Jack Carr 49:01 He does ev- And, yeah, y- yeah. He still does all his own stunts-

Joe Rogan 49:03 He does everything, including flies-

Jack Carr 49:04 ... and jumps out of planes-

Joe Rogan 49:04 ... helicopters.

Jack Carr 49:05 ... and s- it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 49:06 Yeah, I mean-

Jack Carr 49:06 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 49:06 ... what, what film was it? One of the Mission Impossible films? He learned how to fly helicopters so that he could do one of these scenes, because you can't fake it.

Jack Carr 49:14 Who does that?

Joe Rogan 49:14 So he's literally cutting through these canyons-

Jack Carr 49:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:17 ... in a fucking helicopter that he's piloting.

Jack Carr 49:19 That's wild.

Joe Rogan 49:20 Wild.

Jack Carr 49:20 Wi- Well, remember Patrick Swayze jumping out of planes for Point Break?

Joe Rogan 49:23 Oh, yeah.

Jack Carr 49:23 Like, it was a big thing back then.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Yeah.

Jack Carr 49:24 Because they were like, "What if you-" (laughs) "What if, what if you burn in?"

Joe Rogan 49:27 Right.

Jack Carr 49:27 "We invested all this money." And he would go out and do it on his own anyway.

Joe Rogan 49:30 Yeah.

Jack Carr 49:30 You know? What a great... Ah, I love that movie.

Joe Rogan 49:32 D- Y- I'm sure you've seen the Tom Cruise Mission Impossible when he jumps between buildings and shatters his ankle.

Jack Carr 49:37 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 And runs, c- and keeps the scene going.

Jack Carr 49:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:39 Hits the wall, jumps off in, like... Clearly, he's got a broken ankle and he's running away.

Jack Carr 49:43 Yeah. That happened on the set of The Terminal List with Taylor Kitsch, who was at Friday Night Lights for, like... All my wife's friends were like, "Taylor Kitsch! Oh my God, is that-"

Joe Rogan 49:50 I don't know who that is.

Jack Carr 49:51 Uh, he's in, uh...

Joe Rogan 49:52 Let me see what he looks like.

Jack Carr 49:52 Yeah, pull up Taylor Kitsch.

Joe Rogan 49:54 So girls like him, huh? Is that what you're saying?

Jack Carr 49:55 Yeah, yeah. They really do.

Joe Rogan 49:56 Now they have some f- now he has a face. He is more than that other guy, that Adam Richson guy?

Jack Carr 50:00 Uh, I don't know. It'd be interesting.

Joe Rogan 50:02 Oh, there we go.

Jack Carr 50:02 There we go. Right there.

Joe Rogan 50:03 Oh, he's a handsome fella too.

Jack Carr 50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 So he got hurt?

Jack Carr 50:05 Yeah. Well, yeah, but he k- pushed through. I mean, tough. You know, people think that, uh... A lot of times, Hollywood, oh, you're gonna... You know, they're gonna baby ya ab- around. But he got... In this one scene, this gunfight that he's in with Chris, um, he came off these steps and, uh, tripped on something that wasn't supposed to be there. And, um, you can tell. Like, you can see that he, that he's, like, hurt. Not, not just like, "Oh, I rolled my ankle a little bit." Like, it was, it was serious. And he got up and just did it. And then we did more takes and, like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:31 Wow.

Jack Carr 50:31 Super tough. He was so devoted, and he worked that shotgun. Ray Mendoza was out there with him working the shotgun. So when you see him work the shotgun in this, in the film, it's him really working the shotgun. And it... They just spent weekend time off, you know, if they're supposed to be doing that or whatever. But they were out there training on that thing in the desert and, uh, and it shows. It shows.

Joe Rogan 50:48 It's amazing how hard it is to look competent when you're shooting guns.

Jack Carr 50:52 Especially with camera angles.

Joe Rogan 50:53 It really is. Yes.

Jack Carr 50:53 That can mess, mess things up. And there's a lot... So my... One of my takeaways from this whole experience was how, how easy it is for productions to go off the rail when it comes... Like, it's a shock that anything gets made in Hollywood and two, anything good gets made, because you have so many people involved.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Right.

Jack Carr 51:07 There's so many opportunities to jack these things up. You really have to have this core group that is invested. And that was Chris Pratt, that was Antoine Fuqua, that was David Digilio. It was this core group of us, and they were so invested in it. They weren't going to get distracted by anything else and not pay attention to any part of this production. They were in it.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Hmm.

Jack Carr 51:25 And they made sure that it didn't go off the rails. And having those SEALs there and, and, uh, Max Adams, Army Ranger there each and every day like that kept this thing on the rails. But, uh, I can see... I, I was always forgiving when I saw things in movies, like someone's thumbs in... aren't in the right position on that pistol or finger on the trigger type of a thing.

Joe Rogan 51:41 Hmm. Yeah.

Jack Carr 51:41 Very forgiving. But now I'm even more forgiving because I see just how easy it is to mess these things up. And even if you film something and you're like, "Oh, let's do it again," well, in post-production, someone that doesn't know weapons might be like, "Oh, let's just use this one. It looks way better."

Joe Rogan 51:55 Uh...

Jack Carr 51:55 But it's the one where something was on backwards because they j- gave it to the actor or, or whatever else. But, uh, but yeah, I think we, uh, we accomplished what we set out to do and keep this thing rooted in, uh, in authenticity. And that's, uh, that's because of Antoine and Chris and, and David Digilio.

Joe Rogan 52:08 So when all those gu-... D- does Antoine have any military experience or any-

Jack Carr 52:12 His first touchpoint with the military that really stands out to him is, um, is working with, uh, uh, with Bruce Willis in Tears of the Sun.

Joe Rogan 52:20 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 52:20 And it was a SEAL-centric movie, and they had, uh, advisors on set and they had SEALs there that, uh... Typically with Vietnam type of, uh, of tactics, because that's what we had, really, till up until September 11th, was Vietnam tactics. Um, because we hadn't been in sustained combat operations since Vietnam. We had flashpoints in, like, Mogadishu and, uh, in Desert One in Panama and Grenada, but those were flashpoints. That wasn't sustained combat operations. Now, obviously we have 20 years of that, but, um, but the tactics in that movie were Vietnam-era tactics, which were (laughs) what I came into the SEAL teams of what we were doing. And, uh, and he had this experience with SEALs and he was like, "Wow, these guys are just saying yes. Let me, let me move that. Let me move that barrier. What, what do we need done? Let's do it." Instead of having to, like, ask somebody and worry about unions and all the rest-

Joe Rogan 53:03 Hmm.

Jack Carr 53:03 ... who's allowed to do what. Um, and these guys just got it done. So after that, Antoine was like, "Wow, these guys... There's something a little different about these guys." And he's been a, been a supporter of... with military. He's probably a mil- military supporter before that, but that was his real experience getting to know team guys, getting to know SEALs.

Joe Rogan 53:18 When you're saying Vietnam-era tactics, what's the difference?

Jack Carr 53:22 So it was in the jungle and, uh...

Joe Rogan 53:24 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 53:24 So what we would d-... If you can... If you watch that movie in particular... I'm sure there's some other ones out there, um, but, uh, the way that you would move in the jungle and just lay down suppressive fire and having two elements leapfrogging, frogging back or, or, uh, to get out of that contact, it was just a little different. Like, you could take that... And what we did at the b- for training after Vietnam was we'd take those tactics and we dropped them into an urban environment in training or we dropped him into a mountain environment in training. Uh, and then after September 11th, we got to over 10,000 feet in Afghanistan and realized, hey, some things are a little different here. Like, the enemy is going to be shooting. There's not all this jungle around. Um, they're going to shoot at the muzzle flash. And what we have initially off the gate, out of the gate, we had M4s with suppressors, but the automatic weapons didn't have suppressors yet. And so where does that mean the enemy fire goes? To those guys on the automatic weapons.

Joe Rogan 54:13 So the suppressor hides the muzzle fire?

Jack Carr 54:15 Yep. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 So what... Does the muzzle fire go off inside the suppressor? Is that what happens?

Jack Carr 54:19 Yeah, it just mas- masks it.

Joe Rogan 54:20 Right.

Jack Carr 54:21 Yep. And, uh, so you can just see that AW just light it up.

Joe Rogan 54:24 Hmm.

Jack Carr 54:24 And so that's where the enemy fires when... So after that, we s- realized how important it is to, to suppress that muzzle flash on the automatic weapon as well. So just l- little things like that shifted and, and changed a little bit.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Do they develop-

Jack Carr 54:35 Now we have body armor and that sort of a thing -night vision.

Joe Rogan 54:37 Do they develop the tactics? Uh, like, what... How do they do... Do they sit down? Like, say, if you're gonna take Vietnam-era jungle tactics-

Jack Carr 54:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:45 ... and apply them to Afghanistan at 10,000 feet. Is this something that they, they sit down, discuss with people? Like, how do they... Or do they just work it in the field? Like, how do they do that?

Jack Carr 54:54 Yeah, those guys are adapting in the field right away, and then they're getting back and they're doing a hot wash right away. What went right, what went wrong, how we can do it next better next time. And then they put together an af- after-action review, an AAR, and then send that out to the force. So you're going to be back in Coronado, California; Virginia Beach, Virginia and read this and say, "Oh, geez. Okay, we need to adapt this, this, this and this. Let's get to work." Because what do the next guys going down range need or what do the guys down range need right now? Whether it's suppressors, whether it's the next generation of night vision or whatever it is, um, now we have to start adapting. Hey, in training here, we've been training for a number of years just to rush into a building, uh, doing hostage rescue techniques when there might not be a hostage inside. Uh, when we might just be going into somebody's house to grab them out of their bed in the middle of the night, let's say, in Ramadi in Iraq-

Joe Rogan 55:37 Hmm.

Jack Carr 55:37 ... and then grab them and take them back for questioning and then go do it again. Well, w-... there's no hostage in there, maybe we should do this a little differently. And so we started adapting tactics around that. Um-

Joe Rogan 55:46 So, do, do you do this in training?

Jack Carr 55:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:48 Do you adapt it in training?

Jack Carr 55:49 Yep, and it comes back into training. Uh, and then the enemy's adapting too, so they're noticing what you're doing, and they're adapting. So warfare is this constant, I mean, uh, not really, I, I hate using the word "game," but it's a game of adaptation, constant adaptation. Um, so you can't just say, "Oh, now we're in the, now we're in the mountains," or, "Now we're in the urban environment. This is what we're gonna do." Well, guess what? The enemy is taking notes as well.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Is it one of those situations, though, sometimes where there's an, an, an impediment to success in that when you do have situations go sideways, it's rel- r- people are reluctant to take the blame, so maybe they don't describe what happened-

Jack Carr 56:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:23 ... as accurately as poss- sort of like, you know, like, if you're gonna do something in Hollywood-

Jack Carr 56:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:27 ... you have so many people involved, it's very difficult to get what you really want out of it.

Jack Carr 56:32 Mm-hmm. Right.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Because, you know, everybody wants to have their say.

Jack Carr 56:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:35 Everybody wants to kind of manipulate things. Is that the case in warfare, where if a si- if a mission goes sideways, maybe you wanna blame it on the operators, maybe someone wants to blame it on the plan-

Jack Carr 56:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:47 ... initially. Like, uh, how, how do they hash that out and figure out-

Jack Carr 56:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:52 ... what's the right way or wrong way to handle something?

Jack Carr 56:54 Right. So, I'm sure that some of that went on. I just, that was not my experience. My experience was when someone failed in the field, they wanted to pass those lessons along to the force because, uh, it makes us a stronger force as a whole, makes a stronger country as a whole if we pass those lessons on. So it's so important to pass those failures on, as well as the successes, what's working, what's not working. And that means you gotta, yeah, that ego has to be subverted.

Joe Rogan 57:16 Mm.

Jack Carr 57:16 Um, and you have to share those failures. And-

Joe Rogan 57:18 Like Jocko says, extreme ownership, right?

Jack Carr 57:19 That's it. You take ownership of it.

Joe Rogan 57:21 Yeah.

Jack Carr 57:21 And I'm sure there, there are instances here and there of something going sideways, and I'm sure that, that exists. It's just human nature maybe to, to, to cover up something you did wrong, or I don't know.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Yep.

Jack Carr 57:29 But that wasn't my experience. I saw everybody really being as completely honest. We'd get back, "Hey, I did this wrong. I screwed this up, and, uh, this is how we're gonna change it for next time." Like, just owning it right away to make us all a better f- And it, and it increases trust, both up and down the chain of command. So, you're telling your senior leaders, "Hey, we messed this up," and the guys below you in the chain of command are probably saying, "Hey, my, my leaders want us all to be stronger next time so this doesn't happen again." Um, so if you don't do that, it can really erode that trust.

Joe Rogan 57:55 Well-

Jack Carr 57:55 So it's so important to be honest, uh, especially about the failures.

Joe Rogan 57:58 One of the reasons why I'm bringing this up is one of the recurring themes in your books with James Reese is these people that are, they're in the military, but they're either corrupt, or they're egomaniacs, or they're pencil pushers-

Jack Carr 58:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:13 ... who, because