Joe Rogan Experience #1820 - Jack Carr

1. 0:00 – 3:47

   Sauna and cold plunge routines: resilience, recovery, and extremes

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music) And we're up.

   4. JCJack Carr0:13

      We are up.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      In the blood.

   6. JCJack Carr0:15

      In the blood. Woo.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You are, without a doubt, the, uh, wi- within the last 20 years of my life, I've read more of your fiction than anybody else's.

   8. JCJack Carr0:23

      Dude, thank you. I-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Fact.

   10. JCJack Carr0:26

       I am honored. I am honored.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       It's kind of a lie because I'm not reading it, I'm listening.

   12. JCJack Carr0:29

       Mm. I know, but it's, it's kind of interchangeable today.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Yes.

   14. JCJack Carr0:32

       Today it is. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       It's sort of. But when I say, like John L. Rawlings give me a hard time.

   16. JCJack Carr0:36

       They do.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       He goes-

   18. JCJack Carr0:36

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       ... "How you reading when you're just listening?"

   20. JCJack Carr0:38

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       He's right.

   22. JCJack Carr0:39

       Yeah, it's listening, but...

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Reading is harder than listening.

   24. JCJack Carr0:42

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       But I don't have that time.

   26. JCJack Carr0:43

       Nope.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       So like for me, it's like I've finished your books in the sauna-

   28. JCJack Carr0:47

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       ... and on the commute to work.

   30. JCJack Carr0:48

       I'm gonna try my best to get that outta my head. I'm not gonna-
2. 3:47 – 5:13

   BUD/S and Hell Week: why cold and sleep deprivation break people

   1. JCJack Carr3:47

      No, I mean like, I, I feel like I did that in BUD/S and just like died.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:50

      Yeah. Yeah.

   3. JCJack Carr3:51

      Like I, like I'm good.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:52

      You've been there. (laughs)

   5. JCJack Carr3:53

      I think so. I mean, I feel like I don't need to keep doing it, like some of these things.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:56

      The ocean of the Pacific is brutal.

   7. JCJack Carr3:58

      It can be a little chilly.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:59

      Oh my God.

   9. JCJack Carr4:00

      It can be a little chilly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       Like people are used to the ocean in the Atlantic. The Atlantic Ocean is not bad.

   11. JCJack Carr4:04

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       You know? Especially if you're in Florida.

   13. JCJack Carr4:05

       Yep.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:06

       It's pretty nice.

   15. JCJack Carr4:06

       Yep. And you get that warm water that comes up and...

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:08

       Yeah.

   17. JCJack Carr4:09

       Uh, Pacific just really stays cold the whole time.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       The whole time.

   19. JCJack Carr4:11

       As you know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       Yeah.

   21. JCJack Carr4:12

       And, uh, that's where most of the quitters come from in BUD/S is 'cause of that cold.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:15

       Really?

   23. JCJack Carr4:15

       And, uh, yeah. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:16

       That's interesting.

   25. JCJack Carr4:16

       It's cold. I mean, the, the sleep deprivation part of it and hell week I guess plays in, but I think it plays in more because the cold's affecting your body more. 'Cause you haven't slept and-

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       For sure.

   27. JCJack Carr4:24

       ... at the, like Wednesday night and you're just freezing. But the worst part of it is when they put you on Wednesday night, they let you sleep for a couple hours, so they put you in this tent on the beach. So you've been up since Sunday morning, you've been running, you're in and out of the water, so your body's like that cold, clammy sweat. And then they throw a bunch of dudes, like age 18 to like 22 into a tent with no ventilation. And you're s- on these cots and you just immediately go into REM sleep, and so you're just like shaken, and your eyes rolling around and you're just like shaken in the bed there. And then they... It feels like one second, but it's really hour and a half, two hours, something like that. And then they throw a flash crash grenade in and come shooting-

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       (laughs)

   29. JCJack Carr4:57

       ... over the top of your head with M60 with blanks.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       (laughs)
3. 5:13 – 7:41

   Selection as a legacy system: you couldn’t invent SEAL training today

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:13

      That is a thing that you can't soften up.

   2. JCJack Carr5:17

      No.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:17

      If you wanna make SEALs, you have to make SEALs the way they make SEALs.

   4. JCJack Carr5:21

      I think so.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:22

      I think so.

   6. JCJack Carr5:22

      I think so.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:23

      I mean, obviously I've never done it, but I can only imagine that there's only one way to do it correctly.

   8. JCJack Carr5:27

      Well, I mean, you're doing it every day, getting in and out-

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:29

      Yeah.

   10. JCJack Carr5:29

       ... of that, uh, that barrel and then into the cold.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:31

       Oh, please.

   12. JCJack Carr5:31

       I mean, it sounds like you're-

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       Please.

   14. JCJack Carr5:32

       It sounds like you're doing it to yourself.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       I sleep on nice sheets.

   16. JCJack Carr5:35

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       I wake up, you know, 7:00 AM with an alarm clock, well-rested.

   18. JCJack Carr5:38

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       Yawn. No. Yeah, no. It sounds like-

   20. JCJack Carr5:40

       No. No.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       ... you're doing it each and every time. But I thought about this recently, and I thought that, hey, if you were today, in today's day and age where we're all so comfortable and you were to come up with this program and say, "Hey, you know what? We should make these special operations guys in the Navy. And we'll call them SEALs and we'll have this hell week thing where we keep them on the verge of hypothermia the whole time. We might... A guy might die every now and again. Um, but, uh, that we'll find out through that if they have grit, if they have this intangible thing. Uh, and then they would take that up the chain of command and brief that to new admirals and captains up there." There's no way it would get approved. No way.

   22. JCJack Carr6:15

       The only reason that it's a, a program-

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:16

       (laughs)

   24. JCJack Carr6:16

       ... is 'cause it's a legacy program. There's no way you create a program like that today.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:20

       But that's the only way you're gonna make the kind of people that are necessary to do those heavy-duty missions.

   26. JCJack Carr6:26

       Yup. Yup.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:26

       There's no other way 'cause you gotta have someone who you know is not going to quit.

   28. JCJack Carr6:30

       That's it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:30

       Is not going to fall apart.

   30. JCJack Carr6:32

       That's it.
4. 7:41 – 11:00

   Early inspiration and elite pipelines: Robin Sage and “The Frogmen”

   1. JCJack Carr7:41

      And they have to pass these things. And today it's a marine, marine boot camp. You know, it's, it's, uh, SEAL training, hell week in particular. It's, uh, Robin Sage, uh, in the Q Course for Special Forces. So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:52

      What is that?

   3. JCJack Carr7:52

      Uh, Robin Sage, it's a course, uh, it's part of the Q Course for Army Special Forces guys, um, where they go into a, a made-up country of Pineland and have to, uh, deal with a, um, uh, uh, a network of, of agents and tribes and that sort of thing, really based on, uh, counter-insurgency doctrine of the, the '50s and '60s and '70s. But, uh, but it's a, it's a, uh, a testing, uh, a way that they test Special Forces soldiers as part of their, uh, the last thing they do before they get that, that Green Beret.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:21

      Wow.

   5. JCJack Carr8:21

      Yeah, it's very cool.

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:22

      So-

   7. JCJack Carr8:22

      Very cool.

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:22

      ... is SEALs recognized as the most difficult path to go?

   9. JCJack Carr8:26

      Well, that's what I read when I was seven when I went down to the library with my mom and, uh, I did some research into what SEALs were.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       That's when it first got into your head?

   11. JCJack Carr8:32

       Yup, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:33

       Wow.

   13. JCJack Carr8:33

       I saw a movie called the Frogmen, uh, which is an old black and white film that showed these guys coming up over the beach.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       Who was in that?

   15. JCJack Carr8:38

       I forget the guy's name and, and, uh, I'll remember it as soon as we're off. But it's a-

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       Oh, we'll find out right now.

   17. JCJack Carr8:43

       ... actor from like the '50s. Yeah, we can find out right now.

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       We have Jamie.

   19. JCJack Carr8:45

       Yeah, we have Jamie. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       Best one-handed Googler on earth right next to us.

   21. JCJack Carr8:48

       (laughs) He's the best. But it's called the Frogmen.

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       There it is.

   23. JCJack Carr8:49

       And, uh, yeah, Richard Widmark. That's it. That's the name.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:52

       Wow, look how old that looks.

   25. JCJack Carr8:53

       Yeah, yeah. It's an old movie.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       This is from the 1950s?

   27. JCJack Carr8:55

       I think so, '51. There it is.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       So this was when it was ... Was it UDT back then?

   29. JCJack Carr9:00

       Uh, it was the Naval Combat Demolition Units in World War II, and I might have one of those letters slightly off, and then UDT, Underwater Demolition Teams. Um-

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       Have you ever heard the Whiskey Myers song, Frogman?
5. 11:00 – 12:10

   Hollywood realism vs. clichés: how Jack pushed authenticity (car break-ins)

   1. JCJack Carr11:00

      We were figuring out the, uh, the way to have Chris Pratt in the show, in the Terminal List show, uh, break into a car. And, uh, what, uh, what I, what usually happens in Hollywood is someone like, they break the window of the car or they, and they get, and then they, there's these two wires that are miraculously just underneath the dash and they just touch them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:17

      Uh-huh.

   3. JCJack Carr11:17

      And then it starts right up. And so, uh, because we wanted to root this in reality, the show, uh, there's a part that got cut of Chris driving his, uh, Land Cruiser looking for another vehicle because he needs to get another one because the authorities know that the, the Land Cruiser is there. So he has to look for one that he knows how to break into. Uh, I went to a car stealing school a while back and learned all these different, what cars are easier to break into than others and, and that sort of thing. So we did it the exact way that you would break into that particular vehicle. So he had to find one, an older, I think it's an older, it's an older pickup truck that he finds. And then he breaks into it the way that you would and he starts the engine the way that you would. And unfortunately some of that got, got cut out in the, in the post-production. But, uh, point being, it was written into the script as, goes into the car, touches the wires under the dash.

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:59

      Ah.

   5. JCJack Carr11:59

      Because I think that at one point in Hollywood, they're like, "Uh, we need to break into this car," let's say in 1950-

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:04

      Right.

   7. JCJack Carr12:04

      ... something. And that's what they did. And then every other movie from then on did essentially the same thing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:09

      Yes.

   9. JCJack Carr12:10

      You know, so ...

6. 12:10 – 15:59

   Car obsession detour: classic Porsches, Tesla swaps, and the Plaid arms race

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:10

      Do you remember that movie, there was a movie with Charlie Sheen where he was a Porsche thief? All he did is steal Porsches.

   2. JCJack Carr12:17

      Yes. And who was in it with him? Somebody was in it with him.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      A guy that, uh, he'd been in a bunch of movies, but I don't know his name.

   4. JCJack Carr12:23

      I think I do.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      And he was like an undercover cop that was like befriending Charlie Sheen.

   6. JCJack Carr12:27

      Here we go.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:28

      D.B. Sweeney, that's who it was.

   8. JCJack Carr12:29

      Oh, wow. Geez. What was the name of the movie?

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:33

      ... No Man's Land.

   10. JCJack Carr12:34

       Interesting.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       That, that's like the first movie that got me really excited about Porsches.

   12. JCJack Carr12:38

       Wow. Nice.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       Because, uh, Charlie Sheen called Ferraris Italian trash.

   14. JCJack Carr12:42

       (laughs) Oh, wow.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       All they would steal is Porsches.

   16. JCJack Carr12:44

       Nice.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       And they would steal Porsches and then, you know, the cops would try to trace them, but of course they couldn't catch them.

   18. JCJack Carr12:48

       Of course not.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:49

       Because Porsches handled so good. They would just be-

   20. JCJack Carr12:51

       That's right. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       ... going around corners and everything.

   22. JCJack Carr12:53

       Wow.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       And they were cool-looking Porsches. Like look at those.

   24. JCJack Carr12:55

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       The 1980s... Oh, yeah.

   26. JCJack Carr12:57

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       Look.

   28. JCJack Carr12:58

       There we go.

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       Beautiful-looking little zippy cars.

   30. JCJack Carr13:01

       Man, I'm looking at that, like a 912. I've always wanted a 912.
7. 15:59 – 20:48

   Old Land Cruisers and “tactile” machines: sleepers, swaps, and capability

   1. JCJack Carr15:59

      I know there's something to that. But I like, like that FJ40 that I have, it's a, you know, four-speed.

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:02

      Yeah.

   3. JCJack Carr16:03

      But you're working it. I mean, you're in there.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:04

      Yes.

   5. JCJack Carr16:04

      You can't be drinking coffee, you can't be doing anything else.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:06

      Yeah.

   7. JCJack Carr16:07

      You have to be straightening out.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:07

      Oh, is this the guy on the Nurburgring?

   9. NANarrator16:09

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       Oh, my god.

   11. JCJack Carr16:10

       Which one is this?

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       The, this is what I have. This is the Model S Plaid.

   13. JCJack Carr16:12

       Oh, geez. Dude, I don't need to be doing that probably.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       This is-

   15. JCJack Carr16:15

       That is crazy.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       A fucking preposterously fast car. It's amazing.

   17. JCJack Carr16:18

       That is crazy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       It's so good. But I mean, it's not designed to handle like this.

   19. JCJack Carr16:22

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       But it still handles better than... I had a Model S before this, like the, I think it's called a P100D.

   21. JCJack Carr16:28

       Man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       And that was pretty good. But this one handles a lot better. The new, the Plaid handles better.

   23. JCJack Carr16:33

       That is insane.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       But there's still a company called... I think it's called Unplugged.

   25. JCJack Carr16:36

       That's going to make them even faster? Oh, man.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Yeah. They, they, they customize them. I don't know if they're, see if they're doing that with the Plaid.

   27. JCJack Carr16:43

       Oh.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       But they, um, make them with carbon fiber brakes, a larger brake package. They put high-profile or low-profile tires rather-

   29. JCJack Carr16:50

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       ... that are wider. So I think they widened the fenders a bit.
8. 20:48 – 23:31

   Audiobooks and Ray Porter: narrator quality as a make-or-break decision

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:48

      So, this is the fourth book?

   2. JCJack Carr20:50

      This is book number five, yep.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:51

      Number five, the fifth book.

   4. JCJack Carr20:52

      Book number five right here, the one that you're listening to, s- semi-naked in the sauna.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:57

      Yeah, semi-naked. (laughs)

   6. JCJack Carr20:57

      And, uh, read by... (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:59

      Fully clothed for s- for the sauna.

   8. JCJack Carr21:01

      Read, (laughs) read by, read by Ray Porter, um, but-

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:04

      He's great.

   10. JCJack Carr21:04

       He is awesome. He is so... And such a nice guy. Such a nice guy, too.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       Is he?

   12. JCJack Carr21:07

       Oh, such a good guy.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:08

       He does a great job. He does a great job with, with, uh, different accents, too.

   14. JCJack Carr21:11

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:11

       'Cause he has to go one accent to the other.

   16. JCJack Carr21:13

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:13

       He's gone like South African to Russian, back to American.

   18. JCJack Carr21:16

       Yep.

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:17

       He's really-

   20. JCJack Carr21:17

       He's doing it all.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:18

       What does he sound like in real life?

   22. JCJack Carr21:19

       He's... Ah, gosh, he has a voice. He has like a, a traditionally, diff- classically-trained Shakespearean actor. So, he spent, I think, 20 years up in Oregon at the Shakespeare Festival up there. He's been... He was in Almost Famous, the movie. He's been on Sons of Anarchy. He's been on a ton of different shows.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:33

       Oh, wow.

   24. JCJack Carr21:34

       He played, uh, Darkseid in the new, uh, the Snyder Cut of, uh, Justice League.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       Oh.

   26. JCJack Carr21:38

       So, that's him. That's him and his voice, and, uh, but he's... Yeah. Now, he does so much narration, but he's at the top of that pyramid as far as narrators go. Does such a good job.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:45

       No, he's really good 'cause it's, it's rough when... Like, somebody recommended a book to me recently, and I, I just started listening, but the guy doing the narration just sucked.

   28. JCJack Carr21:54

       Mm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:55

       It just was... I didn't like his voice.

   30. JCJack Carr21:57

       Yeah, that can be a... Yeah, that can be a detriment. But, uh, Simon & Schuster sent me 'cause I'm not a... Really an audiobook listener. I'm a reader, have been my whole life. And so, they sent me a clip of somebody who they were recommending for the first novel. And I listened to it, I hit the button, and I was like, "Ugh," and I wrote... This guy sounded really old, and I was like, "I don't think this is the right fit." So, I wrote back, and no one's bought a single book yet. No one even knows who I am. I'm not coming from-
9. 23:31 – 33:15

   Adapting The Terminal List: violence, studio notes, and winning the “woke” battle

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:31

      Now, when you have a m- a movie or a, a, a film version of these books, these books starring this, this gentleman that you've created, this James Reese guy, these books are insanely violent. Like, there are, there are wild moments in this book where I'm like, "Ooh." When, when I first found out that you guys were gonna do an, an Amazon series, I was like, "How are they gonna show this?"

   2. JCJack Carr23:57

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:57

      Like, and how much are they gonna show, and how much are you gonna leave to the imagination?

   4. JCJack Carr24:01

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:02

      'Cause in the book, it's super graphic.

   6. JCJack Carr24:05

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:05

      There's some-... graphic shit.

   8. JCJack Carr24:07

      Yeah. Yeah. So that was- I mean, it's an issue. And, uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:10

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JCJack Carr24:10

       But it was so interesting to, uh, to see it come to life and to see the Amazon make their notes. 'Cause you do these scripts and then they get approved, and then it's like planning something in a boardroom or planning something in a mission planning space in the military where it's air conditioned and you're talking through things and you're looking at the maps and you're saying, "Okay, we're gonna put a blocking force here. We'll have, uh, the predator over here, AC-130s on station for this amount of time." And you plan it out perfectly, and then you leave the gate to the base in Iraq and Afghanistan and you get out there and then things change, uh, for whatever reason. Maybe you hit an IED or you get out there and you're like, "Wait a second. That mountain, even though it looks a little higher in m- Oh, okay, this isn't exactly how we thought it was gonna be." Same thing with the scripts, in that you get out there to start filming and you're on set or you're in an area location and you look at round and you're like, "Oh, this is not working with how we envisioned this." And you have to morph it on the fly right there. And then the actors bring something to it, too. Like Chris Pratt brings something to the character. Jeanne Tripplehorn's amazing, she brings something to it. They all bring these different elements that affect episode two, three, four, five, six, seven. So it snowballs and morphs for other episodes and affects those down the line. So you have to edit as you go. So things change, uh, throughout the whole process. But Amazon, every change, you have to send it up the chain. Just like in the military, it goes up to the top-

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:21

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JCJack Carr25:21

       ... and then it comes back down. And, uh, they're-

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       Does it go up to Bezos?

   14. JCJack Carr25:25

       I don't think so.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       It should.

   16. JCJack Carr25:26

       But, uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       Bezos looks like he's jacked lately. I think he's all hopped up on testosterone.

   18. JCJack Carr25:30

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:30

       I think he might have approved-

   20. JCJack Carr25:31

       Possible.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       ... some radical shit now.

   22. JCJack Carr25:32

       (laughs) It's possible.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:33

       You just get a hold of him, give him a shot of whiskey.

   24. JCJack Carr25:34

       It should, yeah, maybe-

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       Come on, Jeff.

   26. JCJack Carr25:36

       Come on.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:36

       Let's make some fucking history.

   28. JCJack Carr25:38

       Give this three... Give this a thumbs up, buddy.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:39

       Yeah.

   30. JCJack Carr25:39

       Yeah. So it's, uh, it comes back down with their notes and there were some concerns there about the violence, for sure. And so they, uh-
10. 33:15 – 44:16

    Chris Pratt, Antoine Fuqua, and the unlikely chain of events that made it happen

    1. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       Uh, did you bring the James Reese books to someone else first or did you just go straight to Amazon? And how did you know where to be? 'Cause I would imagine with this particular character and these particular adventures that he goes on, they're so intense.

    2. JCJack Carr33:33

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan33:33

       And it's so deeply connected to your past as a SEAL-

    4. JCJack Carr33:38

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       ... that it has to be very personal.

    6. JCJack Carr33:40

       It is.

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:40

       And you, you can't... Like, if someone tried to inject wokeism into the James Reese books, you'd be like, "Oh, Jesus Christ, what are you doing?" You can't do that.

    8. JCJack Carr33:48

       Yeah. And I didn't know how it was gonna be when I got to New York Publishing, you know, not kno- known for, for being a bastion of conservatism, um, but I didn't-

    9. JRJoe Rogan33:55

       But it seems like b- at least in au- fictional books, you're allowed to... You know, because it's, it's not... You can't take it out as a clip and put it out there for people to get angry at.

    10. JCJack Carr34:07

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan34:07

        It's, you have to read-

    12. JCJack Carr34:08

        You have to put in the work.

    13. JRJoe Rogan34:09

        And, and it's also-

    14. JCJack Carr34:10

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan34:10

        ... it's like you're taking into consideration the fact that there's good characters and bad characters and you have to show the evil side of man.

    16. JCJack Carr34:18

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan34:18

        You have to show the, the, the character and-

    18. JCJack Carr34:21

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan34:21

        ... and, and good nature. There's so much going on there that you can't monkey with that too much.

    20. JCJack Carr34:25

        Yep. No, I've had complete creative control. That was the... 'Cause I didn't know, I didn't have anything, any touch points with publishing or with Hollywood before this. And I was, I was kind of wondering when I first started down this path and Simon & Schuster first read it, uh, I was wondering, "Hey, are they gonna say, 'Hey, take... Lighten up on the Second Amendment stuff?' Or, 'Hey, do you really have to, uh, talk about the freedom so much as your character have to have these opinions?" And they never even mentioned that. Have never even hinted at having to do that. So I've had-

    21. JRJoe Rogan34:50

        Well-

    22. JCJack Carr34:50

        ... complete creative control the entire time which is great.

    23. JRJoe Rogan34:52

        What kind of notes did they give you?

    24. JCJack Carr34:53

        Because... Almost zero, other than, um, and I think a lot of that has to do with this podcast because I heard Steven Pressfield on this podcast, and I misinterpreted something that he said. He was talking about a playwright that used to write a sentence or two that would keep him on theme for a play. And in my mind, somehow that translated into Steven Pressfield used a yellow sticky note and put one word on it, and that kept him on theme for his books. And so I wrote revenge-

    25. JRJoe Rogan35:19

        Ooh.

    26. JCJack Carr35:19

        ... and had that on a yellow sticky, and that just kept me on theme, whether it was directly or indirectly, more importantly, tied to that theme. So I think by the time it got to New York and they read it, I had, had stayed on theme that there are only content edits from Emily Bestler at Emily Bestler Books, who is just amazing. Uh, she's the only person I wanted to be my publisher-editor, um, because I saw her thanked in the back in the acknowledgement section of Brad Thor's books and Vince Flynn's books. So I just decided as I was writing, and had no connections anywhere, to, uh, decide that she would be my publisher and editor.

    27. JRJoe Rogan35:49

        (laughs)

    28. JCJack Carr35:49

        And, uh, and then she ended up being my publisher-editor. But, uh, she said, "Hey, would he really do this here? Would he really say this here?" And one other thing that I can't remember.

    29. JRJoe Rogan35:56

        Hmm.

    30. JCJack Carr35:56

        Um, so those are like the three notes and that's it.
11. 44:16 – 52:08

    Why Amazon won the bidding war—and how the show protected authenticity on set

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:16

       And how'd you guys wind up at Amazon?

    2. JCJack Carr44:18

       Well, Chris... So, uh, in December of 2019, uh, Chris and Antoine, um, linked me up with the showrunner, David Digilio. And usually, they like to get rid of the author right away because the author could be on set saying, "You ruined my vision."

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:30

       Right, right, right.

    4. JCJack Carr44:30

       And it just becomes an issue. So they usually like to get rid of the author. Um, but, uh, Chris and Antoine wanted me involved.

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:35

       Hmm.

    6. JCJack Carr44:35

       So they connected me with the, the showrunner, uh, the first week that he got hired. And he kind of, we kind of felt each other out, him really feeling me out and seeing if am I gonna just be a pain this whole time. And, uh, we hit it off right away. And we've talked every day since (laughs) to include this morning. And, uh, and we wrote... Well, he wrote the pilot episode, and I was just learning. And he really mentored me along, taught me about screenwriting. And I got to advise on that pilot episode and i- I'd advise on all the scripts, but primarily that, uh, that pilot episode we worked together on. Um, but then he took it with Chris and Antoine, and they shopped it around and went to Netflix and Amazon and Showtime and HBO and Hulu and Apple. And it got into some sort of a bit of a bidding war at some point, and Amazon ended up with it, so-

    7. JRJoe Rogan45:15

       Wow.

    8. JCJack Carr45:15

       Yeah. Crazy.

    9. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       So they wanted it the most-

    10. JCJack Carr45:17

        They wanted it the most.

    11. JRJoe Rogan45:17

        ... which is perfect.

    12. JCJack Carr45:18

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan45:18

        Nice.

    14. JCJack Carr45:19

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:19

        Wow, that's amazing.

    16. JCJack Carr45:20

        It's crazy.

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:20

        I think they're the best place for it anyway because-

    18. JCJack Carr45:22

        I think so.

    19. JRJoe Rogan45:22

        ... it's like they have some great shows, and they're kind of under the radar. And they have Reacher now-

    20. JCJack Carr45:28

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan45:28

        ... which they did a... Boy, the difference between the Reacher from the Tom Cruise books and this guy, this guy's perfect.

    22. JCJack Carr45:34

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan45:34

        What is his name? The fucking-

    24. JCJack Carr45:35

        He's a big boy.

    25. JRJoe Rogan45:35

        ... big giant dude?

    26. JCJack Carr45:36

        I forget his name. I, that, uh... I forget his name. He's doing a great job.

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:38

        Usada needs to test that guy immediately.

    28. JCJack Carr45:40

        (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:41

        Move in on him and check his pee.

    30. JCJack Carr45:43

        Yeah, yeah. But, uh, he does a great job.
12. 52:08 – 57:58

    Modern warfare adaptation: suppressors, mountain fights, and AAR feedback loops

    1. JRJoe Rogan52:08

       So when all those gu-... D- does Antoine have any military experience or any-

    2. JCJack Carr52:12

       His first touchpoint with the military that really stands out to him is, um, is working with, uh, uh, with Bruce Willis in Tears of the Sun.

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:20

       Mm-hmm.

    4. JCJack Carr52:20

       And it was a SEAL-centric movie, and they had, uh, advisors on set and they had SEALs there that, uh... Typically with Vietnam type of, uh, of tactics, because that's what we had, really, till up until September 11th, was Vietnam tactics. Um, because we hadn't been in sustained combat operations since Vietnam. We had flashpoints in, like, Mogadishu and, uh, in Desert One in Panama and Grenada, but those were flashpoints. That wasn't sustained combat operations. Now, obviously we have 20 years of that, but, um, but the tactics in that movie were Vietnam-era tactics, which were (laughs) what I came into the SEAL teams of what we were doing. And, uh, and he had this experience with SEALs and he was like, "Wow, these guys are just saying yes. Let me, let me move that. Let me move that barrier. What, what do we need done? Let's do it." Instead of having to, like, ask somebody and worry about unions and all the rest-

    5. JRJoe Rogan53:03

       Hmm.

    6. JCJack Carr53:03

       ... who's allowed to do what. Um, and these guys just got it done. So after that, Antoine was like, "Wow, these guys... There's something a little different about these guys." And he's been a, been a supporter of... with military. He's probably a mil- military supporter before that, but that was his real experience getting to know team guys, getting to know SEALs.

    7. JRJoe Rogan53:18

       When you're saying Vietnam-era tactics, what's the difference?

    8. JCJack Carr53:22

       So it was in the jungle and, uh...

    9. JRJoe Rogan53:24

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JCJack Carr53:24

        So what we would d-... If you can... If you watch that movie in particular... I'm sure there's some other ones out there, um, but, uh, the way that you would move in the jungle and just lay down suppressive fire and having two elements leapfrogging, frogging back or, or, uh, to get out of that contact, it was just a little different. Like, you could take that... And what we did at the b- for training after Vietnam was we'd take those tactics and we dropped them into an urban environment in training or we dropped him into a mountain environment in training. Uh, and then after September 11th, we got to over 10,000 feet in Afghanistan and realized, hey, some things are a little different here. Like, the enemy is going to be shooting. There's not all this jungle around. Um, they're going to shoot at the muzzle flash. And what we have initially off the gate, out of the gate, we had M4s with suppressors, but the automatic weapons didn't have suppressors yet. And so where does that mean the enemy fire goes? To those guys on the automatic weapons.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:13

        So the suppressor hides the muzzle fire?

    12. JCJack Carr54:15

        Yep. Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:16

        So what... Does the muzzle fire go off inside the suppressor? Is that what happens?

    14. JCJack Carr54:19

        Yeah, it just mas- masks it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan54:20

        Right.

    16. JCJack Carr54:21

        Yep. And, uh, so you can just see that AW just light it up.

    17. JRJoe Rogan54:24

        Hmm.

    18. JCJack Carr54:24

        And so that's where the enemy fires when... So after that, we s- realized how important it is to, to suppress that muzzle flash on the automatic weapon as well. So just l- little things like that shifted and, and changed a little bit.

    19. JRJoe Rogan54:35

        Do they develop-

    20. JCJack Carr54:35

        Now we have body armor and that sort of a thing -night vision.

    21. JRJoe Rogan54:37

        Do they develop the tactics? Uh, like, what... How do they do... Do they sit down? Like, say, if you're gonna take Vietnam-era jungle tactics-

    22. JCJack Carr54:44

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan54:45

        ... and apply them to Afghanistan at 10,000 feet. Is this something that they, they sit down, discuss with people? Like, how do they... Or do they just work it in the field? Like, how do they do that?

    24. JCJack Carr54:54

        Yeah, those guys are adapting in the field right away, and then they're getting back and they're doing a hot wash right away. What went right, what went wrong, how we can do it next better next time. And then they put together an af- after-action review, an AAR, and then send that out to the force. So you're going to be back in Coronado, California; Virginia Beach, Virginia and read this and say, "Oh, geez. Okay, we need to adapt this, this, this and this. Let's get to work." Because what do the next guys going down range need or what do the guys down range need right now? Whether it's suppressors, whether it's the next generation of night vision or whatever it is, um, now we have to start adapting. Hey, in training here, we've been training for a number of years just to rush into a building, uh, doing hostage rescue techniques when there might not be a hostage inside. Uh, when we might just be going into somebody's house to grab them out of their bed in the middle of the night, let's say, in Ramadi in Iraq-

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:37

        Hmm.

    26. JCJack Carr55:37

        ... and then grab them and take them back for questioning and then go do it again. Well, w-... there's no hostage in there, maybe we should do this a little differently. And so we started adapting tactics around that. Um-

    27. JRJoe Rogan55:46

        So, do, do you do this in training?

    28. JCJack Carr55:48

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan55:48

        Do you adapt it in training?

    30. JCJack Carr55:49

        Yep, and it comes back into training. Uh, and then the enemy's adapting too, so they're noticing what you're doing, and they're adapting. So warfare is this constant, I mean, uh, not really, I, I hate using the word "game," but it's a game of adaptation, constant adaptation. Um, so you can't just say, "Oh, now we're in the, now we're in the mountains," or, "Now we're in the urban environment. This is what we're gonna do." Well, guess what? The enemy is taking notes as well.
13. 57:58 – 1:07:19

    Accountability failures and Afghanistan’s collapse: Bagram, Tora Bora, and leadership

    1. JRJoe Rogan57:58

       One of the reasons why I'm bringing this up is one of the recurring themes in your books with James Reese is these people that are, they're in the military, but they're either corrupt, or they're egomaniacs, or they're pencil pushers-

    2. JCJack Carr58:13

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan58:13

       ... who, because of their, whatever, whatever's going on, whether it's corruption or what, whatever's happening, they'll come up with ideas that benefit them and put, uh, the soldiers' lives in danger. And it seems like that's a kind of a reoccurring theme-

Episode duration: 2:21:28