Joe Rogan Experience #1824 - Lex Fridman

1. 0:00 – 0:55

   Tim Dillon “engagement” and returning to the studio

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      (instrumental music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hey, fella.

   4. LFLex Fridman0:13

      Hey, buddy. What's going on? (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs) Good to see you.

   6. LFLex Fridman0:16

      It's been a while.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      It has been a while. You're, uh, you've been nose to the grindstone.

   8. LFLex Fridman0:21

      Yeah, I disappeared for a bit. I've been hiding from the world. Uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Is this, um, because of Ukraine? Is it personals, like are you busy?

   10. LFLex Fridman0:30

       Well, no, actually it's because I proposed to Tim Dillon and he said yes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Nice.

   12. LFLex Fridman0:34

       Uh, this happened in February, and, uh-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       You wanna get in shape for the wedding?

   14. LFLex Fridman0:38

       Yeah, I wanna get in shape for the wedding, and I've been focusing on that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       (laughs)

   16. LFLex Fridman0:42

       Also, I'm having second thoughts.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       (laughs)

   18. LFLex Fridman0:45

       'Cause when you sign the paper, you realize this is a real commitment and you're gonna have to, uh, live with this man for the rest of your life, and then-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Not only that, they're gonna write fake stories about you like they do about him.

   20. LFLex Fridman0:55

       Oh, they-

2. 0:55 – 2:41

   Celebrity privacy, real-estate leaks, and the economics of “fake news”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:55

      The New York Post wrote a fake story about him today.

   2. LFLex Fridman0:57

      (laughs) What was it? What was it?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:58

      About his real estate holdings.

   4. LFLex Fridman1:00

      Yeah?

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:01

      They're, they're inaccurate about the amount, and, uh, also even about the locations in which he owns homes.

   6. LFLex Fridman1:07

      In, uh, in the c- in cyberspace, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:10

      No.

   8. LFLex Fridman1:10

      No.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:10

      No, real homes.

   10. LFLex Fridman1:10

       Actual, actual homes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yeah, they're, like, ratting him out about his real houses.

   12. LFLex Fridman1:13

       We need to know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       "Community slaps down $4 million for Hampton spread." Fake news, kids. Sorry. But the thing is, it's, like, um, real estate people, there's a lot of dirty business in real estate when a famous person buys a house. They sell the data. They ... you know, someone does it, whether it's someone who works in the office or what have you, they'll, they'll be weasely with it.

   14. LFLex Fridman1:37

       Yeah, is that data public? Like, what, with all the houses you're getting?

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       Depends. Like, uh, you know, a lot of times, uh, famous folks will put a house in under an LLC so that they hide it, but then when it gets leaked, you know someone from ... generally speaking, it's someone from the real estate office leaked it, 'cause they can get paid. Like, there's websites that will pay you. So say if, uh, you know, Elon buys a house and, uh, he tries to keep it all hush-hush and under the table. Like, there was a, a time where they were trying to say that he's living in someone's house and he's lying about living in this tiny house. It's not true, right?

   16. LFLex Fridman2:12

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       You and I know it's not true.

   18. LFLex Fridman2:13

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       But they were trying to pretend that he was staying in this opulent house on Lake Austin just because he had been there before.

   20. LFLex Fridman2:20

       Yeah. He actually lives at my house now.

   21. NANarrator2:22

       (laughs)

   22. LFLex Fridman2:23

       And I don't know if it's-

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       Oh, congratulations. Nice.

   24. LFLex Fridman2:24

       ... li- no, no.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       With Tim Dillon?

   26. LFLex Fridman2:25

       With Tim Dillon.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:25

       Nice. I ... That's a great Odd Couple show.

   28. LFLex Fridman2:27

       I probably shouldn't mention this 'cause it's, it's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       (sings) Da da da da. That would be a wonderful sitcom. You, Tim Dillon and Elon Musk in a house. "Guys, what are we doing?"

   30. LFLex Fridman2:37

       (laughs)
3. 2:41 – 3:31

   Why Tim Dillon works: comedy personas and cultural commentary

   1. LFLex Fridman2:41

      He said he was comparing, like, a Saudi prince with Elon Musk and, like, there's trade-offs between the positives and the negatives. He was saying something positive about Elon, that he's working on rockets, but the negative is that he likes Austin.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:54

      (laughs)

   3. LFLex Fridman2:54

      (laughs) And then comparing it to the Saudi prince, uh, I think-

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      Ugh.

   5. LFLex Fridman2:59

      ... like, jet skis or something like that that's a positive, but then-

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:02

      Ugh.

   7. LFLex Fridman3:02

      ... it's corrupt, that's the negative.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:04

      Tim Dillon is one of my favorite people.

   9. LFLex Fridman3:05

      Yeah, he is.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       I'm so happy he's around. I'm so happy.

   11. LFLex Fridman3:08

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       He's just like ... That guy makes me laugh so hard. It's just his take on stuff. He just rants with Ben when they're just sitting there next to each other and he's just talking shit. And I love it when he wears the cop glasses, like the aviators.

   13. LFLex Fridman3:21

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       'Cause that's ... It's almost like he's on a drug when he has those on.

   15. LFLex Fridman3:24

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       Like he's in a fog. Like he's, he's, "I don't even see you."

   17. LFLex Fridman3:27

       Yeah, he's channeling something else.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman3:28

       It's like a Connor S. Thompson type thing.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Yeah.

4. 3:31 – 10:26

   Ukraine invades the conversation: WWIII anxiety and a newly fragile world order

   1. LFLex Fridman3:31

      Yeah. Yeah, but in reality, the Tim Dillon thing was real. It was April 1st, but, uh, yeah, I think my world, my family's world, and I think the world in general was somehow fundamentally changed on February 24th this year when, uh, Russia invaded Ukraine. I think f- ... I mean, I have a lot of thoughts about it. I've been talking to a lot of people about it. I have family in both countries. I come from both countries. And, um, first and foremost, it made me realize that a global hot war is within the possibility for this century, that we're not so far from a World War III outbreaking.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:20

      No.

   3. LFLex Fridman4:21

      And the reason I realized this is because of the behavior of the United States in response to this humanitarian crisis, this invasion, and the response of China that's currently quietly watching, but for the most part supporting Putin and Russia. India, for the most part, is supporting Putin and Russia. And so you have this division in, in the world. You just look at the, the population. The large economies, large military forces, nuclear powers are just watching this conflict, watching this humanitarian crisis, and nobody seems to be shy about escalation. Nobody seems to be shy about mentioning, uh, you know, the word nuclear. And it just feels like what I've been ... I reread recently as a kind of therapy The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer. He's a journalist that was there for, um, for the, the rise of the Nazi Party and World War II and everything like that. And you just have to put yourself, let's say, 100 years back, 1922. Nobody would predict World War II. In fact, everybody would be sure that World War II would never happen. Surely there will never be another world war when you're sitting there in the 1920s. And at the same time you have Hitler, young Hitler. What is it? 1919 maybe? He is employee number seven of the Nazi Party, so he's the seventh person to join, uh, the National Socialist German Workers' Party that ended up being one of the most, uh, consequential parties ever, uh, political parties ever. So-... from a party of seven people, 20 years later, you have a party that's threatening the existence of human civilization. If they had nuclear weapons, that would be the case. So in t- in the span of 20 years, that can happen. So now we're sitting here in 2022, the possibility of nuclear war seems to be not as distant as at least I, with my innocence, had imagined. And the possibility of hot war is not that distant. And there's escalation, there's warmongering going on. And at the same time, um, just the humanitarian crisis. I mean, on a personal level, it's the biggest humanitarian crisis, six, seven million people, refugees, eight million people inside Ukraine displaced, the biggest one since, um, in Europe at least since World War II. So that's one perspective that this, there's this, uh, authoritarian who invaded a sovereign land and laid claim on it. That's a ... I've recently talked to two folks that have this different perspective. One is Stephen Kotkin, who's a historian of Stalin. I highly recommend people read his biography of Stalin. And then the other one is Oliver Stone, who you talk to mostly about JFK, but he also interviewed Putin. So Oliver Stone's perspective is, look, first of all, America throughout its history has blood on its hands. NATO is pressuring, through its expansion, pressuring Putin, pressuring the other non-NATO regimes. And so they, um, bear some responsibility for this, and you know, you look at post-911 wars, the, in, uh, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, the number of refugees there, uh, the number of people displaced from their, from their homes is close to 40 million people, 40 million people, and the number of dead is over a million people. And those are wars either started or catalyzed or propped up by the United States. That's the Oliver Stone perspective. Y- you know, this, this idea that the United States is the good guys is a complicated one, and so he has been, starting from the Viet- Vietnam War, a critic of the military industrial complex and this kind of imperial imperative of the United States. That's that perspective. Then you have Stephen Kotkin, you have just the Western perspective is like, "No. Yeah, America has blood on its hands, but you can't do this moral, um ... It's ... There's no moral equivalence here." There is good guys and bad guys in the world. The good guys are flawed, yes. But the reality is, uh, Putin's Russia is a authoritarian regime, no respect for freedoms of all kinds, including freedom of the press and freedom of speech. There's a lot of, um, basic violation of human rights, and there's just a straight-up invasion of a sovereign land, and that's a war crime, and Putin is a war criminal. And m- I'm much closer to that perspective, but it's not factual, it's more emotional because I just see how much pain there is in that place. Um, I, y- you know, I've been listening to a lot of people crying, angry, afraid. Um, yeah. It, it ... For, for me, it's been just so much personal emotion because this idea that we're all one people, we're all one humanity has been challenging for me personally. I know there's a lot of suffering in the world, I know there's a lot of atrocities in the world, but for me, it's just because I know directly the people. Um, it's like, uh, you know, there's been recently a couple of shootings, there's been a shooting yesterday in the United States. It's different when you have nothing to do with the people when ... then you, you directly know the people.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:04

      Yeah, the shooting is an hour and a half away, the shooting here.

   5. LFLex Fridman10:07

      Yeah, in Texas. Yeah, yeah. And that's-

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:10

      But that's-

   7. LFLex Fridman10:11

      I don't know, 20 children or something like that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:12

      Yeah.

   9. LFLex Fridman10:12

      Yeah, it's, it's, it's an, it's an atrocity. But it's closer to us, and that's why we as-

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       Yeah.

   11. LFLex Fridman10:17

       ... Americans, we feel it-

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:18

       Yeah.

   13. LFLex Fridman10:19

       ... intimately. Just imagine that on another side of the world where you can feel it intimately because you know the people, so.

5. 10:26 – 13:38

   Moral accounting: Oliver Stone’s critique, U.S. wars, and the Yemen blind spot

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:26

      Well, I mean, I guess we think of it as differently because what Putin is trying to do is command resources and control a country that used to be a part of the Soviet Union. And what happened yesterday is just beyond explanation, right? It's just a completely fucked up situation where a sick person got a hold of a bunch of guns and decided to go kill kids, and it happens in this country like every c- you know, every now and then, it's like how do you stop that? No one knows how to stop that. What, what is the answer? Is the answer take everyone's guns? Well, they're not gonna give their guns up, so it's kinda, you're gonna have ... Only criminals are gonna have guns. It's like, it's not gonna be a good situation. And is the answer make schools these armored compounds where you have g- armed guards outside of every school dressed like it's military? Boy, that's not something we want either. But what, what do you do to protect the children? And how many, uh, how many dollars is that gonna cost? Like, is, do we even have the money to do that? Like ... But the, the, the Oliver Stone perspective when you're talking about, um, the difference between the way we look at the rest of the world versus the way we look at our own actions, when you start bringing up Yemen, Yemen is one that, uh, I've had Dave Smith on the podcast multiple times where he talks about it. Dave is very, very well read about Yemen, and it's, it's a horrific scenario because no one cares, and it, it seems to me like, not only no one cares, I mean, in the United States, this is not something that gets mainstream, um, media attention on a daily basis, but the bombings are ongoing. Like, we, we put up a chart once where they talked about the bombings that are happening in Ukraine versus the bombings that are currently happening in Yemen and bombings that the United States is ... And it's, it's wild because it's like-... swept under the rug, and we don't think about it. And we don't even understand why we're doing it. Like if you ... Uh, I guarantee you, if you just polled a random 1,000 people and say, "What are we doing in Yemen?" No one would have any idea. You'd have to have someone who really gets into the sort of esoteric, the details, the, like, what is going on politically, what is going on economically. Someone like Dave Smith even might struggle with the full explanation of what our motivation ... not our, the military's motivation is to do this. But it's happening. And because it's not getting any attention, it's allowed to happen without scrutiny. It's allowed to happen without real mainstream criticism. I ... If you comb, you know, the, the, the television news sources, cable, left and right, you're, you're not gonna find discussions of Yemen on a daily basis, but that is the one ... If, if there's an area where we can't have that moral high ground, whether, you know, we, we, we say, "Well, what about you?" Like, why do we have those? Why do we ... wo- wouldn't it be better if the United States didn't have any of those that are unjustifiable, where you, you could say, "Oh, the United States did this in Vietnam." Yes, we did, but it was in the 1970s. Well, that would be ideal in terms of like, uh, uh, an example of learning and growing.

   2. LFLex Fridman13:35

      Well, so that's the Oliver Stone perspective.

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:38

      Yeah.

6. 13:38 – 16:56

   Propaganda, Putin’s popularity, and rumors about his health

   1. LFLex Fridman13:38

      The thing is, there is, if you look at the details, a fundamental difference between what Vladimir Putin is doing and what the United States is doing. Now, everybody's a victim of somebody's propaganda. Now, I talked to Russians, which is a very interesting thing. Both Russians and Ukrainians say that they are not at all under the influence of propaganda. Russians believe there's no propaganda in Russia, and Ukrainians believe there's no propaganda in Ukraine. That, uh, from ... For Russians think it's the West is influenced by their propaganda, by the CNNs and the FOXs, and Ukraine is influenced by their propaganda, by the limited number of news channels they have that are state-controlled. Okay? From, from our Western perspective, that seems ridiculous, because it's obvious that Russia's un- uh, uh, under influence of propaganda. And so it's hard to know what is true or not, but the reality seems to be that Russia is currently an authoritarian regime that tries to appear as much as possible as a democracy, 'cause there is an election.

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:48

      Yeah.

   3. LFLex Fridman14:49

      And there's an extra hard truth on top of that. I don't know what to do with it, but Putin is still and even more so popular in Russia. He's very popular in India, in China, and in Russia, and some small countries around former Soviet Union. What do you do with that? That's real, um, objective ... well, as far as we can tell, data from outside of Ru- taken from outside of ... polls taken from outside of Russia.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Do you give any credence to the, the rumors that he has cancer?

   5. LFLex Fridman15:24

      I ... (laughs) I- I'm not an investigative ... You know, because there, there's a lot of sort of rumors of this nature.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      Oliver Stone even discussed it. He said-

   7. LFLex Fridman15:31

      Yeah, I-

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:32

      ... it was a case while he was there.

   9. LFLex Fridman15:33

      Yes. He said it very nonchalantly, and I thought that was a known fact, and then later I looked and it was, you know ... Uh, I'm not sure that was objectively, publicly known. But if Oliver said it, then perhaps there's some truth to it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       Well, he stayed there for quite a while when he was interviewing Putin.

   11. LFLex Fridman15:51

       Yeah, two years. No, he visited multiple times, and he-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       Yeah.

   13. LFLex Fridman15:54

       ... he spent time with him. Yeah, I ... But, uh, according to Oliver, he, uh, he beat it. He beat the cancer. But, you know, he's 69 years old, 7- he's gonna be 70-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Yeah, but beating the cancer when Oliver was there versus what he has now.

   15. LFLex Fridman16:09

       Oh, what he has now?

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       Yeah, because he looks, like, puffy. You know, which is oftentimes the ... You know. I, I had ... We were talking about this with the Chris Distefano podcast. Um, I had a friend who had gout, and they g- they gave him prednisone. Now, he had something else too. Um, sarcoidosis, and they gave him prednisone, and his like ... His face got big.

   17. LFLex Fridman16:34

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       And it just like, "You look puffy."

   19. LFLex Fridman16:37

       Well-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       And he said it's just a side effect of the steroids. Yeah, his face is puffy, you know? Yeah, Oliver Stone says, "Vladimir P- Putin has struggled with cancer. During his time in which the filmmaker focused on his work wi- on the Russian president pictured above, Putin waved during the Victory Day Parade, Red Square, May 9th." Yeah.

7. 16:56 – 27:22

   Dictator isolation, Ukraine’s internal divisions, and Zelensky’s crisis leadership

   1. LFLex Fridman16:56

      Well, I'm much more ... I'm much less of concerned about the puffiness of his face. I'm more concerned about what's going on with, with his mind.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:03

      That's what I'm saying too.

   3. LFLex Fridman17:03

      It seems like he's a different man now than he was even a year ago. Uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:08

      In what w- in what way?

   5. LFLex Fridman17:09

      Um, so from ... This is what Oliver Stone commented on, and I agree. He's formed a much stricter information bubble around him, that there's, uh, that isolation that a lot of us have experienced with COVID. I honestly think it might have to do with just the isolation due to COVID.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:28

      Mm.

   7. LFLex Fridman17:28

      You know, the, the basic distance you have to keep and all that kinda stuff as a, as a political leader, you had to have extra precautions, so-

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:35

      Especially a political li- leader that assassinates his enemies.

   9. LFLex Fridman17:39

      Yes. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       (laughs)

   11. LFLex Fridman17:40

       I'd say that ... Well-

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Oh yeah, there's that too.

   13. LFLex Fridman17:43

       ... 'cause that's ... That's ... Well, no. But that ... That l- that has ... That, that was always the case. That has less to do with COVID. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       But don't you think that increases his paranoia? So he's like, "Isolation-"

   15. LFLex Fridman17:50

       So yes, like the paranoia.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:51

       Yeah.

   17. LFLex Fridman17:52

       The paranoia is the thing. That's what gets dictators. That's what gets ... You start mistrusting everybody, not just on the outside of the circle, but the inner circle.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       Yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman18:00

       And so you don't know who to trust, even the, the closest advisors, you don't know who to trust. So your flow of information is really flawed.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:08

       Yeah.

   21. LFLex Fridman18:08

       It's very limited.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:09

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman18:09

       And so you start, you start making really poor decisions, uh, even more so than before. And there, that, that's where ... I mean, if you ... And I hate thinking of it that way, 'cause to me, uh, the war in Ukraine is a, is a humanitarian-... thing, not a geopolitics thing. But if you think geopolitically, invading Ukraine was just a giant miscalculation on Putin's part, on every level, geopolitical, social, militarily. Um, unless there's- there's very few scenarios in which this was calculated all along. The only scenarios of Putin thought through, um... First of all, maybe he thought that Zelenskyy would just back down, would just crumble under the pressure of even a minor invasion. And obviously, you have to give credit. This is really important. So, uh, Ukraine got its independence for the first time in many centuries in 1991, 30 years ago when Soviet Union collapsed. So, they're dealing with independence, with sovereignty, which is a difficult process, as the United States knows, who had a civil war about it. And the sa- same thing in Ukraine. There's- there's factions. There's a lot of corruption. It's the second most corrupt country i- in Europe. Next to- next to Russia.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:29

       Did you- did you see when, uh, The New York Times was questioning Candace Owen on where is she getting her information? That... 'Cause The New York Times is trying to push this while the Ukraine invasion was happening. They were trying to push this thing that Ukraine was good and Russia is bad. And she was saying, "Well, this is, um, one of the most corrupt countries on earth." So, they said to her, like, "Where are you getting this information?" They sent her an email, and she sent them backlinks to The New York Times and all these articles-

   25. LFLex Fridman19:57

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       ... about how badly corrupt Ukraine was, which is... makes me go, "Goddamn. If I can't trust the fucking New York Times to get it right."

   27. LFLex Fridman20:06

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:06

       Like, you're supposed to be the- the paper of note.

   29. LFLex Fridman20:10

       But a lot has changed though. So, Zelenskyy, the president, he got into office with 70% approval. And before the war, he had less than 30% approval. There's factions, there's divisions. The west side of Ukraine is pro-, let's say, Ukrainian, and then the right side is pro-Russia.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       So, he got into office, and he had a high approval rating. And then before the war, it dropped very low.
8. 27:22 – 29:41

   Nuclear escalation and hypersonics: deterrence, secrecy, and “deep state” debates

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:22

      And not only that, there's hypersonic nukes. You know, this whole mutually assured destruction, Mike Baker explained this to me, from the CIA.

   2. LFLex Fridman27:29

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan27:30

      Mutually assured destruction is not on the table anymore. He goes, "Because with hypersonic weapons, they can attack so quickly, we can't retaliate." So it's a matter of who pulls the trigger first.

   4. LFLex Fridman27:43

      Well, there's-

   5. JRJoe Rogan27:45

      Listen, if you're standing apart-

   6. LFLex Fridman27:46

      ... so much secret stuff.

   7. JRJoe Rogan27:47

      If you're standing apart from a guy-

   8. LFLex Fridman27:48

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan27:49

      ... and you have a gun, and he has a gun, and you have your finger on the trigger, and he has his finger on the trigger, and you're like, "You know what? I don't trust this guy." Boom. You pull that trigger, that guy's dead. There's no retaliating.

   10. LFLex Fridman27:59

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan27:59

       He's not gonna retaliate. That's what he's saying. He's saying it's not like you have a gun, and he has a gun, and you are 700 yards away, and you have a pistol, and he's 700 yards away, so you're out of the effective range, and you say, "You know what? I'm gonna move in on this guy, and I'm gonna shoot him, but then he's gonna shoot me. He's gonna see me coming. He's gonna shoot me, and we're both gonna die." That's mutual assured destruction. What he's saying is, "No. You can launch this thing, and it looks like it's gonna hit Seattle, and it takes a hard left turn and goes right into Chicago, and there's not-"

   12. LFLex Fridman28:26

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:26

       "... a damn thing you could do to stop it, and you can't predict where it's gonna go."

   14. LFLex Fridman28:29

       I think the, the American military-industrial complex is listening to this and is saying, "Hold my beer." Because-

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:36

       No, I'm sure they are, but if they do it too-

   16. LFLex Fridman28:38

       ... the defense-

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:38

       But the thing is Russia does have that.

   18. LFLex Fridman28:42

       But I, I am pretty sure Russia-

   19. JRJoe Rogan28:44

       Yeah, we do too, but it doesn't matter. Once someone launches it ...

   20. LFLex Fridman28:47

       No, no, no, no, no. American defense systems are, are incredible.

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:49

       You think that they can stop that?

   22. LFLex Fridman28:51

       Yes. Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:51

       They say they can't.

   24. LFLex Fridman28:53

       Who says that?

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:54

       Military experts.

   26. LFLex Fridman28:55

       I, uh, what I want to see their credentials and how much access they actually have-

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:59

       Okay.

   28. LFLex Fridman28:59

       ... because yeah, people that comment on stuff, like, I've, okay, with the, so just even with the limited access I've had, uh, has spoken with a lot of people in Lockheed Martin and all over, I realize how much secrecy there is in terms of how many incredible weapon systems there are, i- given how much money is poured into these-

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:21

       Black Ops.

   30. LFLex Fridman29:22

       Just ridiculous-
9. 29:41 – 39:51

   UFOs as black projects: drones, radar evidence, and Bob Lazar detours

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:41

      You know, that's what I think more and more that these UFOs are.

   2. LFLex Fridman29:45

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:46

      I don't think that those things are from another world anymore. I've been watching these, uh, videos of these things with these, uh, fighter jets are getting scrambled to intercept these objects that are flying in insane speeds over the ocean. And I'm like, "Why would we assume that those aren't just super fucking capable drones that we don't know exist yet?"

   4. LFLex Fridman30:09

      We can have both.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:10

      Yeah.

   6. LFLex Fridman30:11

      We can have-

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      We definitely can have both.

   8. LFLex Fridman30:12

      We can have both. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:13

      We definitely can have both. I think both is on the table.

   10. LFLex Fridman30:15

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       But I think a lot of this shit that they're watching, like here's one. I've been thinking about this Commander David Fravor thing, this Tic Tac thing off of the coast of, uh, Saint... Why would it go there? Why, why would it go there? Well, that's where all the fucking military is. Why would it go there and be completely undetected and be operating in the middle of the ocean and be operating over what looks like something that's some sort of a submerged base or some sort of a submerged vehicle that interacts with this drone that operates at an insane rate of speed?... like, wouldn't you ... And it ha- it has active radar jamming, so it actively jams you. Why, why wouldn't we assume that that's ours?

   12. LFLex Fridman30:53

       Yeah, given how much secrecy there is in-

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Yeah.

   14. LFLex Fridman30:56

       ... in American government and-

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       Not just that.

   16. LFLex Fridman30:57

       ... Chinese government.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       But how much fake transparency there is from the Pentagon and from Congress, where they're having meetings about UFOs. "We need to inform the general public," like they give a fuck about what we think, about anything. What benefit is there to inform the general public other than none?

   18. LFLex Fridman31:15

       Yeah, and I'm not sure how much politicians know. I feel like politicians is like the surface wave-

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       Yeah.

   20. LFLex Fridman31:20

       ... of an ocean. I feel like most of the work is done, um, by people that are employed for their whole life and working, uh, in the DoD, Department of-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Yeah.

   22. LFLex Fridman31:29

       ... Defense, and-

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       Deep state.

   24. LFLex Fridman31:31

       Yeah, I mean, that term has been-

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       But that s- that term is beat, beat up.

   26. LFLex Fridman31:34

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:34

       But it's a real term.

   28. LFLex Fridman31:35

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       You know, I mean the, I mean whatever that is, the state. What is the state? What is the government? And what is the government that is not elected and doesn't get removed from office every four years? What does-

   30. LFLex Fridman31:45

       Well, I, I think ... Doesn't the deep state imply there's a deep, like, corruption and manipulation of the populous to sort of, uh, like con- like a conspiratorial, like, controlling the populous? The goal is to, like, uh, for the people that are really in control to get richer and more powerful and that kinda stuff.
10. 39:51 – 54:47

    Aliens, consciousness, and why ideas feel “external”

    1. LFLex Fridman39:51

       (laughs) I'm tempted to. (laughs) But all of this started since we started using nukes.

    2. JRJoe Rogan39:57

       Right.

    3. LFLex Fridman39:57

       Which brings us back to the reality that the nukes aren't off the table.

    4. JRJoe Rogan40:03

       Right. Well, all this started because we're using nukes, and that's when the wave of UFO appearances happened.

    5. LFLex Fridman40:09

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan40:10

       See, I'm inclined to believe that we are being visited. And if we are being visi- visited, the level of sophistication of any civilization that's able to send, whether it's a drone, you know, piloted by AI or by some sort of, uh, robot creatures, like ... I would measure us. I would watch us. I would keep a fucking very close eye on our capabilities. And the stories of them hovering over nuclear facilities and shutting down all of their facilities, shutting down all the weapons systems, that seems ... that would make sense. Like, if I was monitoring from another world, I would say, "Look, these are territorial apes with nuclear weapons, and we need to figure out a way to stop them in their transition a- They're, they're making a transition from extremely primitive to using tools, to engines, the industrial age, to the technological age, in which we're at now, where things are accelerating far beyond our capacity to understand the implications of what happens if ... Like your, your field of study, AI. If AI gets implemented on a large scale and becomes sentient, and then countries that have ... Well, I don't even know what our morals are. But, but if we had that capability in, uh, a brutal military dictatorship, and they decided to use it to control the entire world, that's-

    7. LFLex Fridman41:40

       And they probably have information about how other c- civilizations have failed, the great filter that stopped them from existing, and they realize when you start to get something like nuclear weapons, that's when-

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:52

       Yeah.

    9. LFLex Fridman41:52

       ... uh, it's all ... within, like, 100 years, it all goes to shit. So, there's ... If you want to preserve a particular civilization, like a tribe, you would want to start helping 'em out.

    10. JRJoe Rogan42:03

        W-

    11. LFLex Fridman42:03

        That's the positive spin of it. I do think that their capability ... I think, I think the universe is just f- full of alien civilizations.

    12. JRJoe Rogan42:11

        Yeah.

    13. LFLex Fridman42:11

        But I think their capabilities are far, far superior to h- human capabilities, like-

    14. JRJoe Rogan42:16

        But maybe not. Maybe we're the best.

    15. LFLex Fridman42:19

        I just don't ... I, I can't imagine that. Like-

    16. JRJoe Rogan42:23

        Why not? Someone has to be the best.

    17. LFLex Fridman42:26

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan42:26

        Why isn't America?

    19. LFLex Fridman42:28

        (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan42:28

        Imagine (laughs) we're the best in the universe. This is as good as it gets.

    21. LFLex Fridman42:32

        This, this is the best.

    22. JRJoe Rogan42:33

        Most people are-

    23. LFLex Fridman42:33

        Well, because I, I can-

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:34

        Most things are evil.

    25. LFLex Fridman42:35

        I could see that argument. (laughs) Evil. Oh, boy, I've been listening to a lot of people tell me how they feel about America. Um, a country, by the way, I love. And I should say, this is ... You know, I joke around about this, but I am American. I'm now ... I believe in the ideals of this country. I will die an American. I love this country. And-... also, my heart is the only thing I care about is with the people, in terms of the war in Ukraine, is with the people of Ukraine. And I do think that the invasion of Ukraine is a war crime, and I think Putin in this act is a war criminal. I just want to put that on the table, because we were talking about Oliver Stone a lot.

    26. JRJoe Rogan43:14

        Yeah.

    27. LFLex Fridman43:15

        Um, so evil, (laughs) you know-

    28. JRJoe Rogan43:17

        Evil's a weird word.

    29. LFLex Fridman43:18

        ... is a weird word, 'cause they'll look at what we're doing with cows and they'd be like, "Uh, y- y- all of you humans seem to be torturing your food a lot." It's-

    30. JRJoe Rogan43:28

        Okay. How about what we're doing with plants?
11. 54:47 – 1:01:25

    Tannerite, nuclear testing, and the culture of dangerous power (with whiskey)

    1. JRJoe Rogan54:47

       I could probably explain that what you're doing by putting thermite in these gigantic refrig ... Have you ever seen-

    2. LFLex Fridman54:55

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:55

       ... these guys that do this?

    4. LFLex Fridman54:56

       No.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:56

       Okay.

    6. LFLex Fridman54:56

       It sounds funny.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:57

       Thermite is, uh ... It is called thermite, right? I believe it's called thermite. It's, uh ... No, uh, tannerite. Tannerite? Yeah, that's it.

    8. LFLex Fridman55:05

       Yep.

    9. JRJoe Rogan55:05

       So, this is shit you can buy.Thermite is something else. Uh, tan- thermite is some shit they think cuts, uh-

    10. LFLex Fridman55:11

        I mean, I typed in thermite and it's coming up as both, so I've seen-

    11. JRJoe Rogan55:14

        Yeah.

    12. LFLex Fridman55:15

        ... I don't know the difference.

    13. JRJoe Rogan55:15

        I think thermite is that thing that they believe cuts... Like, you can pour it on metal and light it on fire, and it'll slice right through the metal. It's like some kind of incendiary, uh, compound.

    14. LFLex Fridman55:25

        By the way, you have whiskey-

    15. NANarrator55:26

        Okay, yeah.

    16. LFLex Fridman55:26

        ... or are we doing a little drinking?

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:27

        Yes, now you're ready. Yay.

    18. LFLex Fridman55:29

        (laughs) Yeah, just, just for science.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:30

        Tell, uh-

    20. LFLex Fridman55:31

        Just for science. Tannerite's an explosive.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:32

        Yes, tannerite is what I'm talking about. Thermite is the stuff that cuts metal. So tannerite, what they do is... Let's get some, uh, ice and glasses and whiskey. Um-

    22. LFLex Fridman55:41

        Thanks, Jamie.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:43

        Tannerite, what they do is they fill up refrigerators and then they'll shoot it from a distance, and on impact, it explodes and so many people have died fucking with this stuff. Like, a man almost killed... Watch this. Okay, watch this guy. He shoots his refrigerator. Watch this.

    24. NANarrator56:07

        He has to aim.

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:08

        Yeah.

    26. NANarrator56:11

        (gun fires) Holy shit.

    27. LFLex Fridman56:13

        (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:14

        (laughs) That's Texas. Welcome to Texas. That's where you live.

    29. NANarrator56:17

        (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:18

        Welcome, welcome to Texas.
12. 1:01:25 – 1:13:17

    Schultz’s wedding to Vegas: push-up contests, Goggins, and navigating fame

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

       So we go to Schultz's wedding.

    2. LFLex Fridman1:01:26

       Schultz's wedding.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

       Great fucking time. And, uh, we're having a good old time at, uh, our boy, Schultz's wedding. It's very... It's beautiful. I cried.

    4. LFLex Fridman1:01:33

       Can, can I take, can I take a tangent on that?

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

       Yes, please.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:01:36

       And I think-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       (Laughs) He's cut the video from there for it.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:01:39

       Do you have... I have to, I have to mention, I mentioned to you before, I'm a huge fan of Bobby Lee. He should be on this podcast.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

       Yes. I love Bobby Lee. I saw he was on your show, too.

    10. LFLex Fridman1:01:46

        Yeah. He's... I... Is...

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

        By the way, Bobby Lee's been invited to my podcast multiple times.

    12. LFLex Fridman1:01:51

        Sometimes he gets starstruck. Yeah, he's... Okay.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:51

        Multiple times.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:01:52

        Well, you should, you should get him on. You, you should-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

        I'm gonna have to reach out to him, and maybe even-

    16. LFLex Fridman1:01:55

        I feel like he's so...

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

        I might have to fly to LA and hold his hand and drag him on a flight, but-

    18. LFLex Fridman1:02:01

        No, no. I think he just needs a real invitation.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

        He knows I love him.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:02:04

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

        I cri-... 'Cause there's been a lot of drama lately, and one of the things that happened was, somehow or another, my name got entered into this thing, and I don't wanna get into it in too much detail. But I'm like, "Okay, I must call Bobby." And I called him, and I said, "Listen, I don't know what kind of... I'm just hearing about this nonsense now, but I love you. I would never let anybody talk bad about you. I would never let anybody come on my show and talk bad about you. I think you're an awesome guy. I think you're incredibly talented. And I know that you have fear of, like, performing and putting on a special and stuff like that. But I really think you should, because I think you're one of the best comedians alive. And I think..." And I've said that to him many, many times. I always give him shit like, "When are you gonna do a special? What are you doing?" 'Cause Bobby Lee, like... First of all, his special is so tight because he's been, uh, doing the same material for so long. He's a fucking amazing comedian. He really is.

    22. LFLex Fridman1:02:52

        But there's also a natural uniqueness to his comedy. Like, I can think of, like, Duncan Trussell. There's certain comedians that are just, like, occupy their own space.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:03:02

        Yes.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:03:02

        There's just a... Like, it's not that just that they're funny, but this is like, you haven't seen one of those.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:08

        Right. Yes. Duncan's 100% like that. He's 100% Duncan Trussell. Like, whatever influences he has, his influences are like, you know, fucking gurus and, and, and weird LSD pioneers, and-

    26. LFLex Fridman1:03:22

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:22

        That, you know, that's...

    28. LFLex Fridman1:03:23

        (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:23

        Those are the, the type of people that are influencing his comedy.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:03:26

        Uh...
13. 1:13:17 – 1:30:18

    Bourdain, darkness, and the burden of not reaching out in time

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:13:17

       And also, if they're fans of the podcast, they know that I am just a person. Like, I, I ... You can't hide for three hours a day for thousands of episodes. I think everybody listening to this podcast knows me as well as probably anybody in my life, other than my wife. So, it's you get to get an understanding of that person. Then you go, "You know what? I think I could hang out with them and it'd be normal." Whereas, like, a regular person would be like, "Oh, my God, Matthew McConaughey. I loved you in Interstellar. You're so amazing. Can I get a selfie? Could you ..." Like, I've become friends with Matthew McConaughey and had dinner with his family and we, we went to the soccer game the other day. He's a beautiful person, sweetheart of a guy, super normal. Like, movie star, Oscar winner, greatest guy, so normal. Like, normal.

    2. NANarrator1:14:02

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:14:02

       Like, you hang out with him. He and I just chill. We talk. Like, he's just a guy, you know, but he's a movie star. But he needs someone around him who can also just be normal. And I think most people are just so ... Like, you were with Bobby Lee, or you were with me when you first met me.

    4. NANarrator1:14:18

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:14:19

       Or I was with Anthony Bourdain. When I first met Anthony Bourdain-

    6. NANarrator1:14:21

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:14:21

       ... I was such a fucking dork because I was ... I couldn't believe it was him.

    8. NANarrator1:14:25

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:14:26

       Like, I'm hanging out with him and he knows who I am and he likes me. You know? And then he came to see my show and, like ... And he told me how funny I was. I'm like ... This is crazy. This can't be real.

    10. NANarrator1:14:35

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:14:36

        But-

    12. NANarrator1:14:36

        How, how, how long did that take you for ... to lose that with Anthony Bourdain?

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:14:40

        Took a few, uh, a few hangs.

    14. NANarrator1:14:42

        Okay.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:14:42

        We had to hang a few times.

    16. NANarrator1:14:44

        Okay.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:14:44

        It's just ... It was odd. You know, I've, uh, deeply admired him while he was alive. I love his thought process and the way he ... You know, he wrote all of the narration of No Reservations and then of Parts Unknown. He wrote all that. And there's ... He's a brilliant writer on top of being, like, this, uh, amazing just thinker. Like, he's, he's capable of this ... He was capable of putting that down in a way where the way he flavored these conversations was like the way a great chef would flavor a great meal. It's like there was-

    18. NANarrator1:15:19

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:19

        ... something to it that was ... I, I really admired his, his appreciation of creativity and of rebellion and of art and someone who's really good. He was ... Like, he wrote in his Twitter bio, it just said, "Enthusiast." That's who what he was, you know? He was just like ... So, it took a while for me to hang with him, you know. But fortunately, I got to hang with him quite often, you know, and maybe not often enough. There was like ... Yeah, you know. I just get fucking sad about that one.

    20. NANarrator1:15:51

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:15:51

        That one's a hard one. That one's a hard one for me 'cause that's a waste. That's just so unnecessary. It's like you, you, you hit a low point and you pulled the chute. And the world suffered because of that, and his family suffered, and his daughter suffered. And it's like, "Fuck, man." I know that those feelings are there, but you can fight those off and there will be a better day. This too will pass, and your ... There'll be a better day. And the thing that helps you in those better days are friends. And I don't think I was quite, quite close enough to him for him to reach out. But if he did, I think I could've helped. 'Cause I've had a lot of experience with crazy women in my life. I've had a lot of experience with what he was going through. And sometimes you need a, a guide to go, "Hey, man, I'll tell you fucking exactly what's going on."

    22. NANarrator1:16:36

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:16:37

        And there's a lot of these people out there in the world. And they'll get close to you, and then they'll try to damage you and they'll try to hurt you because they're hurt, 'cause they're, they're fucked up. And they're fucked up 'cause someone fucked them up. And they're ... You know, it's, it's, it's a fucking endless cycle. It's almost like a cycle of, you know, you hear about people that were molested and then they go on to molest other people. It's like that kind of a thing, you know?

    24. NANarrator1:16:57

        But I think it ... It's probably often difficult to reach out when you're in that state.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:17:01

        It's almost impossible. You don't, you don't ... First of all, you don't think that when you're struggling and you're all fucked up, you, you feel pathetic and you feel weak.

    26. NANarrator1:17:10

        And you don't want to be a burden to others.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:17:11

        Exactly.

    28. NANarrator1:17:12

        That's how you think about it.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:17:13

        Yeah. Well, that's him anyway. He was very, very independent anyway. But we-

    30. NANarrator1:17:18

        Have you ever, uh ... Have you ever been to a dark place like that yourself?

Episode duration: 2:42:59