Joe Rogan Experience #1830 - Meghan Murphy

1. 0:00 – 6:14

   Raicilla arrives: Mexican moonshine tasting and why Joe hates it

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hello, Meghan.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy0:14

      Hi.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What's happening? Good to see you.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy0:16

      Good to see you also.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      What's crackalackin'?

   7. MMMeghan Murphy0:19

      Um, well-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Welcome to America.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy0:20

      ... are you ready to get wasted? (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       Yeah, you and this fuck-

   11. MMMeghan Murphy0:23

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       You and this fucking vile beverage that you bring.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy0:29

       I brought, Lord-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       I've-

   15. MMMeghan Murphy0:31

       I was like, "Joe is gonna actually be mad when he sees what I brought."

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       So explain to people what this is.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy0:36

       Okay. I brought raicilla. Uh, Joe Rogan, this man right here, he talks about raicilla. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I talk about it (laughs) 'cause you gave it to me-

   19. MMMeghan Murphy0:44

       All the time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       ... and I, I serve it to people.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy0:47

       You never stop bitching about raicilla on the podcast. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Well, I give it to people, and every time I give it to people they're like, "Jesus." (yawns)

   23. MMMeghan Murphy0:54

       I don't know.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       It's one of the rare alcohols that we've had in studio that we haven't burned through.

   25. NANarrator0:58

       Mm.

   26. MMMeghan Murphy0:59

       Yeah, and I noticed you didn't give it to Snoop.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       No.

   28. MMMeghan Murphy1:02

       Squandered opportunity. I was like, 'cause you were like, "Yeah, you don't want that." And I was like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       I don't think Snoop wants that.

   30. MMMeghan Murphy1:07

       Maybe he does want it. (laughs)
2. 6:14 – 7:40

   From raicilla to politics: Meghan’s upcoming "Women Leaving the Left" event

   1. MMMeghan Murphy6:14

      I'm gonna try to not get too wasted tonight 'cause I have an event tomorrow.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:18

      Oh, what's your event?

   3. MMMeghan Murphy6:19

      It's called Women Leaving the Left. Um ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:22

      Wow.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy6:22

      We're, uh, it's a panel of women, females, adult human females, um, and it's at the Austin Central Library on West Cesar Chavez.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:36

      Yeah.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy6:36

      Did I say that right? Yeah, 710. Um, and it's basically, like, I've, like, I've been writing a lot lately about ... Sorry, I'm just, like, kinda launching into my spiel or whatever. I've been writing a lot lately about, like, my political transformation, I suppose you could call it. I wa- I mean, I was super left wing for my whole life. Like, from when I was a kid. I grew up in, like, a Marxist household.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:02

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy7:03

      So I was, like, a socialist and a feminist (clears throat) my whole life, until maybe, I don't know, two or three years ago, I started feeling like I wasn't super into the labels anymore and definitely started feeling, uh, becoming very critical of the left. And not just the way the left had treated me, which has been abhorrent, um, but ideologically, I think that there's problems. It's not, you know, it's not-

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:38

       Like, what specifically bothers you?

3. 7:40 – 10:58

   Breaking with ideological labels: independent thought vs. movement loyalty

   1. MMMeghan Murphy7:40

      Well, I mean, I, I guess, so part of the thing that happened was that I realized that attaching yourself to any movement and any ideology limits critical thought and independent thought. Um ...

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:55

      Yes.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy7:56

      You get trapped into this box, and the people that you're allied with in these movements also trap you into that box.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:03

      Right.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy8:04

      And I am a writer, and that's, you know, m- I'm a thinker, you know. Like, I want to learn, I want to know, and I want the freedom to change my mind about things. Um, I want the h- the freedom to explore new ideas, and I want the freedom to talk to, you know, I also do, do podcasts, and I wanna be able to, I, part of the reason I do it is 'cause it's interesting. Like, it's a great way to learn. I'm sure-

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:30

      Yeah.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy8:30

      ... you know that, right? Like ...

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:31

      Yeah, sure.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy8:32

      I've learned so much just from the opportunity to talk to so many different kinds of people and ask them questions about things-

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:40

       Oh, yeah.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy8:40

       ... that, that I don't know about.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       It's an amazing resource.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy8:43

       It's amazing.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       I mean, running a podcast and being able to have conversations with people, it's changed who I am. I mean, if you go back-

   15. MMMeghan Murphy8:49

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       ... uh, 12 years ago, to when I started the podcast, what I know and the way I talk and the way I think about things, it's very different.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy8:57

       Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that that played, like, a large role in my changing my mind about all sorts of things.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:07

       Right.

   19. MMMeghan Murphy9:07

       Because you're exposed to new ideas and different perspectives and people who come from different backgrounds. And, I mean, I th- I just feel like so many people on the left and so many people in feminism are siloed. Um, and that is probably true about the right to a certain extent. It's just that I'm much less familiar with the right 'cause I've never been involved with the right before.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:32

       Right.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy9:33

       But I feel like on the left and in feminism, they're around people who only agree with them, who only see things their way, and they refuse to speak to anybody-

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:45

       Yes.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy9:45

       ... who doesn't see things their way. Which, you know, exacerbate- exacerbates the problem. Um, and I didn't want that. I felt intellectually bored also. Like, I was like, "Okay, I feel like I'm just repeating myself now. So I'm not even thinking critically about what I'm saying. I already know the analysis. I already know the mantra. I know what my response is supposed to be. I know what words I'm supposed to plug in-"

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       Right.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy10:09

       ... you know, patriarchy, capitalism-"

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       Yeah.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy10:12

       "... intersectionality," although I never got fully into that nonsense.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       (laughs)

   29. MMMeghan Murphy10:19

       (laughs) But, you know, and I, and I j- I really, like, I was r- (laughs) I really have been treated very badly by the left and by feminists and-

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:28

       When you say that, though, d- don't you think it's just specific people that are attached to an ideology? It's not like people that are left wing people have treated l- you badly. It's very specific kind of people that decide that you are venturing away from the ideological boundaries.
4. 10:58 – 17:13

   Work ethic, individual responsibility, and skepticism after COVID relief

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:58

      But left wing thoughts, right? Thi- this is the thing that I have a problem with, uh, with all this stuff. It's like, I'm very l- open-minded and very liberal when it comes to gay rights, women's rights, civil rights, all... You know, e- even things that I'm, I'm still on the fence about now, like universal basic income, boy, I was, I was all in until the pandemic. And then watching the way people behaved when they got ahold of, uh, a lot of unemployment and the, the money from the government, the COVID relief money, and they w- didn't wanna work anymore.

   2. MMMeghan Murphy11:27

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:27

      I was like, "Ooh." You know?

   4. MMMeghan Murphy11:29

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:29

      I mean, I, I know it's not a lot of people, you know, it's not like all the people reacted the s- exact same way. But I have friends that own businesses, and they can't get people to w- they couldn't get people to work for 'em. Like, I have a friend who, uh, owns a restaurant, and he couldn't get a bartender. Like, the bartender would only work for $20 an hour, or excuse me, uh, for 20 hours a week so that he could get unemployment. And he was like, "What the fuck, man?" Like ...

   6. MMMeghan Murphy11:53

      Yeah. I mean, but I, I think that's partly, um, I mean, I, yeah. That's true.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:58

      Do you know what I mean? It's like ...

   8. MMMeghan Murphy11:59

      But I think it's, that's partly, like, baked into left wing ideology nowadays because there's this, like, opposition to, um-... you know, independence. There's an opposition to trying to better yourself as an individual person. There's an opposition to individualism because you're supposed to blame the system.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      Yeah.

   10. MMMeghan Murphy12:20

       You're supposed to blame capitalism, racism, patriarchy, you know, and then all the myriad of phobias, transphobia, fatphobia. And so the solution is not to change you. It's not your fault, it's their fault-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:34

       Wow.

   12. MMMeghan Murphy12:34

       ... because they're phobic or the system's trying to keep you down, so I think that, like, not wanting to work anymore is like, "Well," like, "why should I? I don't have to." Like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       Well, that's the thing-

   14. MMMeghan Murphy12:45

       ... they don't realize that it, like, it's good for your mental health to work. Like, you're not-

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Yeah.

   16. MMMeghan Murphy12:48

       ... supposed ... It's not good for your mental health to sit around in your apartment on Netflix or on Zoom or on social media or on dating apps or looking at porn all day.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       Well, the thing is, it's like, it's not good to not be self-sustaining is my thought. I think there's an issue, but I, I think for many people, you get unemployment and you use that unemployment to try to find another job and to sustain yourself, and it's great. But for some people, there is a general human tendency to, uh, when you're offered a break, to take that break, you know, when you're offered money to do nothing, to do nothing, you'll, and you'll do nothing.

   18. MMMeghan Murphy13:25

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       Um, I think my thoughts about universal basic income were, and this is what I liked about it, I liked the idea of giving a person an opportunity where, like, we pay for so many things. We just sent $40 billion to Ukraine, right? Why can't we figure out a way to give people enough money to sustain themselves so that they could actually pursue their interests and do what they want to do? And I think that would make for a stronger world, a stronger economy, a stronger community of people, and happier, healthier people. That was my thought. But then when I saw how people reacted with the, the government money from COVID relief and from, from, um, uh, unemployment, I was thinking, "Man, I don't know. There's a, a lot of people that aren't going to react the right way, and that what they're going to do is they're going to take an easy way out and they're going to lay around," and that sucks. Like, if you give people an opportunity to be lazy, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to be lazy. And the, the problem is if you oppose that, if you oppose that relief, then people say you're cruel and, you know, you're l- not looking out for the working people, and it's like, that's not j- first of all, that, I, I hate those fucking categories, like working people. Goddammit, everybody's working. Shut the fuck up. The, it's not a working people issue. We're all working. Everyone's doing something, right? Or, or you're not, and if you're not, that, that is the problem. The problem is when people don't want to do anything, because that is a general instinct that people have towards laziness, and the problem, I think, with whether it's universal b- basic income or any other social safety nets, which I very much support for the most part, is that some people, it's not everybody, but some people have a tendency to just be fucking lazy.

   20. MMMeghan Murphy15:07

       Yes. And, uh, again, this is attached to, I think, leftist ideology because I think what I've realized of late is that leftist ideology is about idealism. Like, it's like we want to create this world and this is the way the world should be, but in reality, that world doesn't exist and people don't work like that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       Right.

   22. MMMeghan Murphy15:32

       Like, what they want... And I'm, I'm saying this as somebody who believed these things, like, people have (laughs) like, people get really mad at me, but people are mad at me all the time, um, nothing new, but, you know, people, when I start criticizing the left, people get angry at me. First of all because people, I think, like to categorize people and box them in, and when they start moving outside of the box, they get angry and confused and frustrated, and so they'll just want to write you off or hate you or call me right wing or whatever. But, you know, I, I, I was a leftist and I thought like these people and I thought that it was right, and the reason that I was a leftist is because I care about people.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       Yes.

   24. MMMeghan Murphy16:11

       It's not because I'm an evil communist, like-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Right.

   26. MMMeghan Murphy16:13

       ... the right is very bad at writing people off too.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       Right.

   28. MMMeghan Murphy16:16

       It's like, "Oh, these communists." It's like these people don't even really know what communism is. They've, I'm sure they've never read Marx for the most part. But, you know, I didn't want people to be poor. I didn't want people to not have housing and food and access to healthcare and education. I wanted things to be more equal and just.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       Right.

   30. MMMeghan Murphy16:36

       That's why I was a leftist. But the solution was an idea, you know? Like, "If we create this kind of society, then we'll all live in happy communities and everybody will work and nobody will slack off and, like, they'll, there'll be no exploitation and, like, rape will disappear and oppression will disappear," and that's not what happens in the real world. That's not what's happened in places that have implemented communist regimes.
5. 17:13 – 20:44

   Where “socialism” works: healthcare, safety nets, and the student debt trap

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:13

      Do you think... I mean, the, the argument is always that socialism has never been implemented correctly-

   2. MMMeghan Murphy17:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:19

      ... um, this sort of utopian idea of what, uh, a real, genuine, compassionate socialist community could look like, that it's never really been done correctly. But do you think it's a human nature issue? Do you think it's like, like the, the idea of socialism is great on a surface level if you, you're thinking about people that work hard and that want everyone else to do well and they want to all contribute. Like, you c- I think you could have a socialist community of very driven, disciplined people where they, they share, they share things. Like, we have some socialist things, right? Like, uh, the fire department is an excellent example of socialism because we pay into this thing that supports these people who put out fires.

   4. MMMeghan Murphy18:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:06

      And nobody complains about it. It's a normal thing. It's something that we contribute to, it's like a fund, and that fund puts out fires, and it puts out fires, you know-... uh, based on your tax dollars that you put into it. And you don't want a society where if you don't have money, they don't put the fire out, right?

   6. MMMeghan Murphy18:25

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:25

      But some people would argue that that's, that's where it ends. Like you shouldn't have that and extend that to education. You shouldn't have that and extend that to, um, healthcare. But I think that's where socialism could work. I think wha- w- ... And I don't mean socialism, like, across the board. I mean socialist ideas. I think the idea of a universal healthcare system where everyone is covered and you never have to worry about anything, like, bankrupting you because you broke a leg or you, you hurt your back. Like, that you're taken care of, and that we all contribute to that. And again, if we can give $40 billion to Ukraine, why the fuck can't we do that? No, I ... We can do that. That's totally possible. The education system, the idea that you have to be in debt. I was reading this story the other day about this woman who's $250,000 in debt, uh, from student loans, and she took out $150,000. So over the course of the, uh, interest that's accumulated, she's got $100,000 more in interest. I'm like, "What the fuck is that?"

   8. MMMeghan Murphy19:31

      Dude.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:31

      And you can't get rid of that.

   10. MMMeghan Murphy19:32

       It's fucked. Uh, tell me about it. Like, I mean, I, I support public healthcare still. Like, I do think that it is imperative that people have access to healthcare.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       Yeah.

   12. MMMeghan Murphy19:44

       And I think the healthcare system in America is horrible because I think the aspect of it that's horrible is that people can go into insane amounts of debt because they got sick or hurt.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Yes.

   14. MMMeghan Murphy19:57

       Like, that's not okay-

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       It's not okay.

   16. MMMeghan Murphy19:58

       ... to me. It's not okay. And the sa- ... And student loan debt, like, you're right. Like, you, you, you get an amount of debt that you can't afford to pay off with the job that you've gotten from going to university, and then they're charging you all this interest, so it makes it doubly impossible to pay it off, and it's like a trap. I mean-

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       And you can't get out of it.

   18. MMMeghan Murphy20:18

       No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:18

       Like, you can't g- ... You can't even go-

   20. MMMeghan Murphy20:19

       You can't declare bankruptcy-

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       Yeah.

   22. MMMeghan Murphy20:20

       ... on it anymore.

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       Which is crazy.

   24. MMMeghan Murphy20:21

       You used to be able to.

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:22

       Yeah. You could sell some horrible medication that kills people, get sued for it, lose all your money, go bankrupt, and you're good. You ... They ... It'll absolve you of your debts. But that's one of the rare forms of debt that you cannot escape.

   26. MMMeghan Murphy20:38

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       Which is crazy because you're, you're giving it to 18-year-olds. You have an 18-year-old, doesn't have a fully-

   28. MMMeghan Murphy20:43

       They're like, "Sure, yeah."

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       ... formed brain.

6. 20:44 – 30:09

   Meghan’s personal experience with class, struggle, and building discipline

   1. MMMeghan Murphy20:44

      "Take ... I want the money." But also, like, I couldn't afford to go to school full time. I could not. I was w- ... Like, you know, for my whole life, until I was able to, you know, make a living off of what I'm doing now, which took a lot of work and me working for free for many, many years, I had like three jobs all through university. Like, I was always working full time, and you're trying to complete a degree, and they make that impossible too. You can't complete a degree part time. At least I couldn't in Canada because I couldn't take classes in ... Like, I couldn't finish a degree only by taking night classes. It's impossible. So eventually, you have to quit your job and you have to go into debt. Like, people who are critical of students who rack up a ton of student loan debt and can't pay it off, um, don't seem to under- ... They're like, "Why don't you get a summer job and save money over the summer?" And I was like, "I don't live at my parents' house." Like, when I was 18, my parents moved to the States. I have to pay rent. Like, my parents aren't paying for my life for me. I ... Like, I don't have any money to save. Sometimes I don't have enough money to get on the bus and I have to walk to work. This is when I was like, you know, 19, 20. Like, I was broke (laughs) for most of my life.

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:59

      Yeah.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy21:59

      Like, no, I wasn't poor. Like, I don't wanna be like, "Woe is me." Like, I always had a house and, you know, something to fall back on. Like, I was never gonna be homeless. It wasn't like I couldn't eat. But I ... There was no saving money. Like, I did not have thousands of dollars to pay tuition. I had to take out student loan debt. I had no choice.

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:18

      Right. Do you think that there's a certain amount of struggle like that that is not just, uh, good for you, but necessary in order to, like, steel your discipline and create a person who can overcome adversity? Like, if, if everything is handed to you, this is the argument that the right will use, right? (clears throat) That, um, if you make things too easy, if you give people free education, if you give people, uh, free healthcare, that they're gonna become soft, and we need a resilient, tough country that works hard. And the way you get people to work hard is you force them to, 'cause that's the only way that people are gonna do it.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy22:57

      (sighs) I think it's true in some ways. I mean, I, I think that struggle is imperative and important. I think that you need pain to experience and understand pleasure. Um, I think if there's just ... Everything is easy for you, I think you get really depressed. Like, you need to work hard, and you know what it ... You have to know what it means to, like, suffer and feel pain and to, like, be bad at things and to, like, get better at things.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:24

      Yeah.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy23:24

      Um, I know I don't need to tell you this, but (laughs) like, I, I, I mean, what I experienced was useful to me in the long term, I think, because I understand (laughs) ... Like, I understand real life.

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy23:41

      I understand why people go into debt. I understand how hard it is for people who are poor and working class to get out of that. Like, what a lot of people on the right don't understand is that class still is a real thing in North America. Um, it's not as overt or as visible or as extreme in, as it is in Third World countries. Um, but it's still, it's still real. I mean, if you, if you are born poor and working class, it's not that it's impossible to get out of it. You can, and lots of people do, and that's incredible. But you're challenged in so many different ways, mentally and in terms of systemic barriers, you know, being able to get a degree, for example, um...... and having the kind of credit that you need to take out loans to, you know, buy property, get a house, so on and so forth. But there's, like, a mental barrier that I experienced, because I thought, "I'm working class. I'm always gonna be working class. I don't understand money. I don't understand capitalism." I think this is partly to do with my politics also, I'll say that. Um, like, I don't know, I don't know how to make money, I don't know how to save money, I don't have, like, business sense. And I was... I limited myself in that way, um, 'cause I just thought, I was like, "I'm never gonna be able to own property."

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:07

       Right.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy25:07

       "Like, I can't- I'm never gonna be able to afford to buy a house, so whatever." Like, "So I'm just gonna work at, you know, making $50,000 a year, and pay my rent, and that's the end of that." (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:20

       Yeah.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy25:20

       Like... And I think that people who come from money see money as an option. They're... It's accessible to them, so I think that they might work harder to make more money and to, you know, invest and to save and to-

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       Well, they also have examples of people who've done it, so they can see it.

   15. MMMeghan Murphy25:38

       Exactly.

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:38

       They could see it happening.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy25:39

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:40

       And they, they see a path too. If you have an uncle that started a business and became successful-

   19. MMMeghan Murphy25:44

       Exactly.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:44

       ... you go, "Oh, I see how to do it."

   21. MMMeghan Murphy25:45

       I mean-

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       Yeah.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy25:46

       ... and I knew, I knew when I was a kid, I knew when I was a teenager and this is still true now, that a lot of people who own houses and properties, that's because they had family money.

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:54

       Yeah.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy25:55

       You know, their parents put their down payment down for them. So if you don't have that, I don't have that, so I was like, "How am I... Like, what, I'm gonna save up $30,000, like, for a down payment?"

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:04

       Yeah, uh, the, the, the term working class, one of the things that bugs me about it is it's like, it, it's, it's one of those, like, things that gets used often as a cheap political ploy. Like, "We're here for the working class."

   27. MMMeghan Murphy26:17

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:17

       And then people... "You need to support the working class." There's this... That's what drives me nuts about it, 'cause it's this weird sort of categorization of people. 'Cause it does classify people in almost an inescapable little tomb, you know, "You're the working class, you're part of the working class."

   29. MMMeghan Murphy26:32

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:33

       Like, what is, what, what if... What the fuck does that even mean? Like, are you talking about people that are struggling to pay their bills? "Yeah." Well, that's the majority of people. That's the majority of people, and oftentimes what we consider not the working class, people are such knuckleheads that if they make $400,000 a year, they spend 399. (laughs) You know, and they become the working class. They have a lot of other stuff that they have to pay for.
7. 30:09 – 38:00

   Censorship flashpoint: Meghan’s lifetime Twitter ban and its ripple effects

   1. MMMeghan Murphy30:09

      Yeah, I think so. Um, like, I've, I've met... Basically since I was kicked off Twitter, I... You know, that was, like, a blessing in disguise in some ways. It's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:20

      For people who don't know you-

   3. MMMeghan Murphy30:22

      Oh, yes.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:22

      ... let- we should just, like, give, just for people who didn't listen-

   5. MMMeghan Murphy30:24

      My claim to fame.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      ... to the other episode. I met Megan because I was outraged, um, and I brought it up in... I brought up your case in the conversation with Jack Dorsey, I brought it up multiple times in the podcast.... 'cause you were kicked off Twitter for life for saying a man can never be a woman.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy30:42

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:43

      Which is madness.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy30:45

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       It's cru- for, like-

   11. MMMeghan Murphy30:46

       Men aren't women-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       Yeah.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy30:47

       ... is what I said.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       Yeah.

   15. MMMeghan Murphy30:48

       Apparently, men are allowed to say that. Matt Walsh is allowed to say that. I'm not allowed to say that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       What do you mean?

   17. MMMeghan Murphy30:53

       Like, I, I, like, after I got kicked off of Twitter, I saw right-wing men on Twitter saying the same things that I've said, and they weren't kicked off of Twitter. And I-

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       Really?

   19. MMMeghan Murphy31:02

       ... think that's because-

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       Were you in a conversation with a trans person when you said that?

   21. MMMeghan Murphy31:07

       (smacks lips) Not that I'm aware of. I don't know who was in the conversation. It was part of a thread, and it wasn't like I was saying to somebody, "You're not a woman."

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       Mm-hmm.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy31:18

       It was in response to a tweet that was sort of confusing and me saying, "But men aren't women, though."

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       What was the... Do you remember what the-

   25. MMMeghan Murphy31:27

       I don't remember what the context is, is to be ho- I'm just kidding.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       So, you were-

   27. MMMeghan Murphy31:30

       But th- It was that. C- There was, like, three tweets. But also, like, they... I believe that Twitter was going after me specifically because I was speaking critically about gender identity ideology and because I was asking these kinds of questions that I w- Like, I don't think that it was specifically because of these tweets. I think they took those tweets as an excuse and, like-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:52

       Right.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy31:52

       ... I think they were trying to get rid of me, and then they're like, "Uh, okay, that's hateful. That's hateful."

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:56

       And when you say "they," it's probably just some moderator. It's probably someone who has a, a subjective opinion about what you say and whether or not you should say it, and that's a problem generally that a lot of people have with the censorship that's on social media, Twitter in particular. You know, um, one of the weird things that's happening now with, uh, Elon Musk buying Twitter, or attempting to buy Twitter, they've done something different. And one of the things they've done different is I gained, now it's 900,000 followers in the month or so.
8. 38:00 – 40:13

   Elon Musk, bots, shadowbans, and social media as a livelihood

   1. JRJoe Rogan38:00

      Yeah?

   2. MMMeghan Murphy38:00

      So since Elon Musk announced that he was gonna buy Twitter, we'll see if that actually goes through or not. Um-

   3. JRJoe Rogan38:08

      They just gave into one of his demands.

   4. MMMeghan Murphy38:10

      Oh, did they?

   5. JRJoe Rogan38:11

      Yeah. They just released, uh, they, well, see if you can find what the article says. But, uh, essentially, um, he said unless they give him access to data so he can find out how many of these accounts are fake.

   6. MMMeghan Murphy38:23

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan38:23

      'Cause his, his take on it was like, if you were gonna buy something and you were buying it under the assumption that ... okay, here it goes. Twitter set to turn bot data over to Musk. All right, so this says that Twitter's board is reportedly set to pull an about face, offering Elon Musk internal data on hundreds of millions of tweets as it fights for the billionaire to complete his acquisition of the social media company. S- Twitter set to turn over information to Musk, capturing more than 500 million tweets, the device the posts came from, and other information about the account holders, The Washington Post reported Wednesday, citing an unnamed person familiar with the matter. Such a move would help respond to Musk's repeated demands for more information about the composition of Twitter's user base and the extent of its problem with bots. Musk has challenged Twitter's claims that just 5% of its accounts are bots, calling the way the company calculates fake accounts very suspicious in a May tweet. So, um, I'm really, uh, interested to see how this plays out, because he is what i- he would describe as a free speech absolutist. And I think that that is something that people are reluctant to, uh, to agree is a, a good thing, because they're worried about the negative aspects of free speech. You know, they're worried about assholes and, you know, and, and trolls and all that stuff, and-

   8. MMMeghan Murphy39:42

      Toughen up, man. Toughen up. And I'm not joking. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan39:46

      Yeah.

   10. MMMeghan Murphy39:47

       I- I was calling myself a free speech absolutist for a while, and then I interviewed Michael Solana, who's, um, with the Founders Fund, and he organized Hereticon, which was-

   11. JRJoe Rogan39:58

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MMMeghan Murphy39:59

       ... a conference that I went to in Miami in January that was, like, amazing. It was basically, like, a wrong think conference.

   13. JRJoe Rogan40:04

       Was it good?

   14. MMMeghan Murphy40:05

       It was amazing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan40:06

       Yeah?

   16. MMMeghan Murphy40:07

       It was awesome.

   17. JRJoe Rogan40:09

       Do you smoke s- cigars?

   18. MMMeghan Murphy40:11

       No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan40:11

       You want one?

   20. MMMeghan Murphy40:12

       No.

   21. JRJoe Rogan40:12

       Okay.

9. 40:13 – 48:26

   Smoking culture, workplace exposure, and the weirdness of public norms

   1. MMMeghan Murphy40:13

      I'll choke. I want more Raicilla, though.

   2. JRJoe Rogan40:15

      All right. Okay.

   3. MMMeghan Murphy40:15

      I used to, I smoked cigarettes from the time I was 13 until 21.

   4. JRJoe Rogan40:19

      You got, your Raicilla's right next to you.

   5. MMMeghan Murphy40:20

      Well, I wanted to open a different one, 'cause I want you to try this one.

   6. JRJoe Rogan40:23

      Oh, Jesus.

   7. MMMeghan Murphy40:23

      Will you try some more or no?

   8. JRJoe Rogan40:24

      It's nasty.

   9. MMMeghan Murphy40:25

      Dude, this one is good, I swear to God. Okay, listen. If you don't like this one ... Well, I already said I'd give up on you if you don't like this one. Look at how beautiful the label is, in any case. It's a nice bottle and the label.

   10. JRJoe Rogan40:38

       Yeah. Real pretty poison.

   11. MMMeghan Murphy40:39

       Okay, well, I'm gonna have more.

   12. JRJoe Rogan40:41

       Go ahead.

   13. MMMeghan Murphy40:43

       I love the smell of cigars, and I've always wished that I could, but I don't know how to not inhale, so I choke. Like, 'cause I treat it like a cigarette.

   14. JRJoe Rogan40:50

       You smoke cigarettes?

   15. MMMeghan Murphy40:51

       Well, I quit when I was 21, so.

   16. JRJoe Rogan40:52

       Oh, it's true, true.

   17. MMMeghan Murphy40:52

       And I think, and I hate cigarettes now. But, um, I quit when I was 21, which was good timing, 'cause that was, like, around the same time when all the bars started not letting you smoke inside. I used to, like, go to the bar and drink beer and smoke cigarettes inside the bar.

   18. JRJoe Rogan41:07

       The good old days. I used to like comedy clubs and be smoking.

   19. MMMeghan Murphy41:10

       Can you imagine? Ew.

   20. JRJoe Rogan41:11

       Now? Yeah. It's nasty.

   21. MMMeghan Murphy41:12

       In Mexico, like in Sayulita where I live, you can smoke anywhere you want. And I take it because I love Sayulita and I love freedom (laughs) and I love Mexico and I love that there's no rules. But when I leave the bar and I wake up the next, I wake up the next day coughing, my hair stinks-

   22. JRJoe Rogan41:28

       Yeah.

   23. MMMeghan Murphy41:28

       ... my clothes stink.

   24. JRJoe Rogan41:29

       Yeah.

   25. MMMeghan Murphy41:29

       Like-

   26. JRJoe Rogan41:30

       You're probably catching a buzz, though, even though you're coughing.

   27. MMMeghan Murphy41:32

       Probably. So many people smoke there-

   28. JRJoe Rogan41:34

       Yeah.

   29. MMMeghan Murphy41:34

       ... it's crazy. And coming from somewhere like Vancouver that's like a super healthy place, so nobody ... See, they smell so good, like I really like it, but I can't do it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan41:41

       I get it. I get it. Um-
10. 48:26 – 57:00

    Why Meghan prefers alcohol over drugs: control, sociability, and routine

    1. JRJoe Rogan48:26

       What is the appeal of drinking to you? Like what is th- that thing?

    2. MMMeghan Murphy48:30

       This is an interesting question and I've thought about this a lot. (laughs) And I'm not sure-

    3. JRJoe Rogan48:34

       Yeah?

    4. MMMeghan Murphy48:34

       I have. I think about it all the time because, like, 'cause I don't love drugs. Um-

    5. JRJoe Rogan48:40

       Do you like pot?

    6. MMMeghan Murphy48:42

       No.

    7. JRJoe Rogan48:42

       Not at all?

    8. MMMeghan Murphy48:43

       Nope. I don't like it.

    9. JRJoe Rogan48:44

       Interesting.

    10. MMMeghan Murphy48:44

        I tried for many years to smoke weed and I ... It's not for me. It makes me ... I don't, I don't like the feeling of being high. Um, I- I'm sorry. I know that's a strange thing to say.

    11. JRJoe Rogan48:59

        No, apologize. We've had this conversation three times today. You don't have to like what I likes.

    12. MMMeghan Murphy49:04

        (laughs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan49:04

        (laughs)

    14. MMMeghan Murphy49:05

        (laughs) You're like, "This is the kind of podcast where you come on and you agree with everything I say-"

    15. JRJoe Rogan49:10

        Yeah.

    16. MMMeghan Murphy49:10

        "... or you're out and you're never coming back."

    17. JRJoe Rogan49:12

        What is it about? Is it the paranoia?

    18. MMMeghan Murphy49:14

        I, yeah, I feel paranoid.

    19. JRJoe Rogan49:16

        Mm-hmm.

    20. MMMeghan Murphy49:16

        I can't socialize. Like, I get super self-conscious, so if I smoke weed, I have to, like, stay home and lie on the couch and watch TV and eat candy, and that's not what I want to do with my life, like-

    21. JRJoe Rogan49:25

        Hmm.

    22. MMMeghan Murphy49:25

        ... I wanna be out and socializing or I wanna be productive. I wanna be able to work, and I can't do any of those things. Like, I... So, and I don't like the not knowing when it's gonna end. Like, I also, I don't like mushrooms 'cause I'm like, "Okay, this was fun for five minutes and now I feel weird and I don't have any control over this." Like, I think-

    23. JRJoe Rogan49:44

        Oh.

    24. MMMeghan Murphy49:44

        ... I wanna be in control.

    25. JRJoe Rogan49:46

        A control thing, yeah.

    26. MMMeghan Murphy49:47

        Um, like I, I also, like I don't like, uh, like MDMA 'cause it's just, and like, ugh, now I feel, like I feel, it makes me... It doesn't do what it does to a lot of other people. Like, it makes me feel antisocial and like I wanna go like sit in a corner-

    27. JRJoe Rogan50:04

        Hmm.

    28. MMMeghan Murphy50:04

        ... and then wait for it to be done. I think I like drinking because it's- it's social.

    29. JRJoe Rogan50:09

        Mm-hmm.

    30. MMMeghan Murphy50:09

        Like, I like going out with my friends and like, you know, laughing and being stupid and talking about stupid things and doing karaoke and like getting loose and wild and...
11. 57:00 – 1:20:03

    Oceans, beaches, and who ‘owns’ the shoreline

    1. MMMeghan Murphy57:00

       Hmm.

    2. JRJoe Rogan57:00

       ... 'cause it's territorial. So, like, when you're in the ocean, that makes sense. That's nobody's. Which is really kinda interesting, right? It's like we, we allow people to own everything, but you can't own the ocean. But you kind of.

    3. MMMeghan Murphy57:10

       Yeah, I mean, technically, technically you're not allowed to own a beach.

    4. JRJoe Rogan57:15

       Yeah, but w-

    5. MMMeghan Murphy57:15

       In Canada, anyways. Is that true in the US too? It is, right? Is it?

    6. JRJoe Rogan57:18

       You, well-

    7. MMMeghan Murphy57:18

       But be, but you can still... You can buy up all the property close to the beach and then, like, build, like, a fence so that people can't get through, but you can't, like... Uh, my parents live on a small Gulf island and I went to... And, y- you know, like, you... In BC and on these islands, you can go to beaches and there's nobody else there. It's awesome, and it's, like, super beautiful. The forests are beautiful. The mountains are beautiful, blah, blah, blah. But I went to this one beach and there's a path down to the beach, and it says, "No trespassing. Private property," but it's like, "Well, it's a beach. I'm gonna go to the beach." And so we're down at the beach and the chick who owns the property comes down and is like, "You know, like, you're not allowed..." Like, you're basically... You're allowed to come to the beach via a boat, but you're not allowed to walk down her path to the beach, so she's essentially created a private beach. She's like, "How did you get here?" Like, "You guys aren't allowed to walk through this place." And we're like, "Oh, no, we're just gonna swim back." (laughs) Like...

    8. JRJoe Rogan58:12

       Yeah. It's weird. People don't own the beach, but you do own everything above high tide. You can own above high tide. That's how it is in Malibu. So, I have a friend who has a place in Malibu, and, uh, he was telling me that his sons were surfing and they were in this area, and th- this guy didn't know that they were his sons. So, the guy comes out and starts screaming and yelling at them to get the fuck off the beach. And, you know, he got mad at the guy and then, you know, there's this conflict and the guy realized, "Oh, you live here. Okay, these are your sons." But you're not allowed to yell at people to surf. Like, if pe-

    9. MMMeghan Murphy58:48

       No, god.

    10. JRJoe Rogan58:48

        'Cause they were laughing and surfing in front of this guy's house, so he thought because he spent $10 million on this house, he should be able to tell people, "You can't surf in front of my house." But there's been cases in Malibu where they hire private security so that you know what... Uh, I think it's called Billionaire's Beach, like Carbon Beach. It's these people that have all this money buy these houses and then they hire private security to kick people off the beach, but they can't. You're not allowed to. So then, there's lawsuits where people sue the people who kicked them off the beach. And I don't know how they resolve that, but I know it's ongoing. And technically, the people that are the beachgoers are correct.

    11. MMMeghan Murphy59:29

        Mm-hmm.

    12. JRJoe Rogan59:29

        You, you, you can't keep people off the beach. It's everybody's.

    13. MMMeghan Murphy59:32

        Yeah. It's just, it's just the getting there part that is technically illegal. But of course, these people do feel entitled and they're like, "This is my private beach." Like, "What are you doing on my private beach?"

    14. JRJoe Rogan59:42

        Listen, if you wanna buy a fucking place, and you wanna buy a place that's on the water, that is what comes with the territory.

    15. MMMeghan Murphy59:48

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan59:48

        People can-

    17. MMMeghan Murphy59:48

        It's the ocean.

    18. JRJoe Rogan59:49

        ... camp out right in front of your fucking house.

    19. MMMeghan Murphy59:50

        Like, people can do whatever-

    20. JRJoe Rogan59:52

        Yeah.

    21. MMMeghan Murphy59:52

        ... they want with the ocean.

    22. JRJoe Rogan59:53

        Yeah.

    23. MMMeghan Murphy59:53

        Like, you don't get to own that.

    24. JRJoe Rogan59:54

        The problem is if, like, you know, if you have a bedroom and you like to keep your windows open so you could hear the waves crash and then you have people right below you and they're fucking partying, playing shitty music and...

    25. MMMeghan Murphy1:00:05

        Too bad, bro. That's what you get for being rich.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:00:07

        Wow. Listen, man.

    27. MMMeghan Murphy1:00:08

        (laughs) I'm joking.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

        I hope you don't get rich.

    29. MMMeghan Murphy1:00:10

        I hope to be rich someday.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

        What is this, Jamie?

Episode duration: 3:06:11