Joe Rogan Experience #1845 - Zachary Levi

Narrator 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Zachary Levi 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) How are you, uh, uh, acclimatizing to Austin?

Joe Rogan 0:14 I love it.

Zachary Levi 0:15 It's great, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 0:16 Yeah, I've been here now ... Like, we're going? Yeah, so I've been here now for two years and just totally feels like home. I love it.

Zachary Levi 0:22 It's such a great town.

Joe Rogan 0:23 It's the best. The people are so nice.

Zachary Levi 0:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:25 It's such a great place to live.

Zachary Levi 0:27 Yeah. And it's, one of the things I love about it is how well nature is protected here.

Joe Rogan 0:31 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 0:31 Like Barton Springs, for example. Or even like, I can't think of another s- major city I've been to, anywhere in the world, that has a river that goes through the middle of the city-

Joe Rogan 0:40 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 0:40 ... that anyone is playing on. Austin is the only place I've ever been to where there's a river in the middle of the city and there's people kayaking and paddle boarding and doing all of the things. You're like, "That's what we should be doing in all of our rivers."

Joe Rogan 0:50 And it's clean.

Zachary Levi 0:51 It's so clean.

Joe Rogan 0:52 Yeah, that's what's crazy.

Zachary Levi 0:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:53 You know, one of the comedy clubs that I was going to buy, there was a problem with it, and the problem was there was a parking lot, and the parking lot was at the bottom of a long hill. And if it rained, the rainwater would come down and get all the oil and all the bullshit from people's cars-

Zachary Levi 1:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13 ... from the parking lot and then take it over the hill into the creek.

Zachary Levi 1:15 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:16 And so they, they were supposed to have installed this big-

Zachary Levi 1:20 Grape or something?

Joe Rogan 1:20 ... bio containment pond.

Zachary Levi 1:23 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah, it's a really wild thing. They had to like literally build a pond and then, then they had to surround the pond with very specific plants that filter out shit-

Zachary Levi 1:32 To kind of suck it up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33 ... and suck everything up. I was like, "I'm out." (laughs) I was like-

Zachary Levi 1:35 (laughs) That's more than I want. Thanks.

Joe Rogan 1:37 But it wasn't even that. It was just like, I could see the headlines, "Joe Rogan kills fish with his shitty comedy club." (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:44 I was like, "No."

Zachary Levi 1:45 With the comedy club.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Yeah. Totally. I am not-

Zachary Levi 1:47 That was the tool.

Joe Rogan 1:48 ... doing anything that is ever going to be an environmental concern. I'm not ... If it, if it's up for deb- I'm fucking ... I'm out.

Zachary Levi 1:54 Yeah. No.

Joe Rogan 1:55 I'm out.

Zachary Levi 1:55 Well, to the extent that we should never be doing anything that's fucking up the planet-

Joe Rogan 1:59 Right. Exactly.

Zachary Levi 1:59 ... would be great if we could all agree on, on that. That would be great. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:02 Yeah, it's good idea. It's like this agreement to fuck up the planet a little bit so you can get more gas mileage. Or agreement to fuck up the planet a little bit so it's easier for you to do X, Y, or Z.

Zachary Levi 2:12 Certainly. But also I think ... Well, it's just industry run rampant, man. I mean, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:17 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 2:17 That's what most of it is anyway. It's-

Joe Rogan 2:19 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 2:20 It's greed on a really high level that we all kind of just accept because it's like, "Well that's capitalism I guess, so whatever." But-

Joe Rogan 2:26 We all agree that companies should try to make the most amount of money every year always. Like you're always supposed to make more money.

Zachary Levi 2:33 But I feel like we do, which is ... I don't think that's such a bad thing, uh, uh, to the extent that it should never be at the expense of-

Joe Rogan 2:41 Right.

Zachary Levi 2:41 ... life. Of human life and plant life and animal life. Like to the, to the extent that industry is milking every single dollar, right, out of everything.

Joe Rogan 2:50 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 2:50 Just f- so what? So their bottom line is better? So their shareholders are happier? So their CEO makes a better salary that year? Th- it's all just high level greed. And, and they could still all make so much money and not kill everything.

Joe Rogan 3:03 That's what's really crazy.

Zachary Levi 3:04 I think.

Joe Rogan 3:04 Is like everybody always wants to do better. Like no one wants to maintain. No one wants to say, "Hey, you know, this company makes, you know, $100 million a year. This is great."

Zachary Levi 3:13 Yeah. We're good.

Joe Rogan 3:14 "Let's, uh, everybody high five. Let's keep the ball rolling."

Zachary Levi 3:16 We're good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:16 "We all get vacation time and we'll all live a wonderful life." No.

Zachary Levi 3:20 But no, you gotta have more, man.

Joe Rogan 3:21 Yeah, and you gotta put in overtime. We gotta increase our bottom line.

Zachary Levi 3:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:24 We gotta fucking ... Why aren't these things moving off the shelves?

Zachary Levi 3:27 Yeah. Have you seen, uh, Succession?

Joe Rogan 3:29 Yes. Love it.

Zachary Levi 3:30 Oh, it's so good.

Joe Rogan 3:31 Love it.

Zachary Levi 3:31 It's so good but it's also so terrifying because you're watching it being like, "Yeah, that's going on right now."

Joe Rogan 3:37 Oh, for sure.

Zachary Levi 3:37 That's so representative of multiple different, you know-

Joe Rogan 3:40 Dude, I know people like that.

Zachary Levi 3:41 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 3:42 I know, I-

Zachary Levi 3:43 Such a bummer. Such a bummer.

Joe Rogan 3:44 Physic- physically know people like that who got all their money from their parents and they're just batshit crazy-

Zachary Levi 3:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:50 ... and doing blow and wearing $50,000 watches and just ...

Zachary Levi 3:54 And just going for more and more and more and more.

Joe Rogan 3:56 It never ends.

Zachary Levi 3:56 At the expense of-

Joe Rogan 3:57 It never ends.

Zachary Levi 3:57 ... everyone and everything else. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:58 It never ends.

Zachary Levi 3:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:59 And it's always you have to have the newest, latest, greatest thing.

Zachary Levi 4:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:02 You know, you have to have the two thous- the 2023 Mercedes right when it comes out. Like everybody's balling in this weird-

Zachary Levi 4:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 ... uh, like performative way.

Zachary Levi 4:12 Well, and we all celebrate it, which is the saddest thing.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 4:14 Honestly. I mean, look at how much-

Joe Rogan 4:16 Instagram.

Zachary Levi 4:16 Instagram.

Joe Rogan 4:16 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 4:16 All of it. I mean, we, it's ... If you drive a Lambo, how many likes do you ... You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 4:21 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 4:21 It's like ... And we all also, I mean, not, nothing against people who own Lamborghinis (laughs) but it, you know, we all kind of sense that that's flashy anyway. Why, why are we so caught up in that? And yet it still is getting all the likes and getting all the shares.

Joe Rogan 4:35 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 4:35 And people still, particularly young people, are still like gunning for that, aiming for that.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 4:40 Like, "I want to be that cool." It's like, no you don't. That's not the kind of life that you (laughs) want to be living or aspiring to.

Joe Rogan 4:46 (laughs) It's not real. They're not even living that life. The, like if you're posing in front of a Lamborghini, just by virtue of the fact that you're posing-

Zachary Levi 4:54 Yeah. Yeah. Posi-

Joe Rogan 4:54 ... you're not really living your life.

Zachary Levi 4:56 Posing.

Joe Rogan 4:56 This is fake.

Zachary Levi 4:57 Lots and lots of posing.

Joe Rogan 4:58 You're standing there-

Zachary Levi 4:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:00 ... in like a, a fancy pose-

Zachary Levi 5:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:02 ... to show how badass you are.

Zachary Levi 5:03 Yeah. Look at my Lambo, man.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Yeah. And perhaps you have a bandana and no shirt on.

Zachary Levi 5:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:08 Maybe you're really wild. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 5:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:11 Maybe you're like a-

Zachary Levi 5:11 Every Lambo owner I know is.

Joe Rogan 5:13 ... rich eccentric guy with flip-flops. That's a weird one, the flip-flop guy. I don't even give a fuck, bro. I'm out here in flip-flops with my Lamborghini.

Zachary Levi 5:20 Yeah. I mean, I am a flip-flop fan, so ...

Joe Rogan 5:22 Nothing wrong with flip-flops.

Zachary Levi 5:23 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:23 But flip-flops on a Lamborghini.

Zachary Levi 5:24 But I like my Crocs even more. I brought, I wore my Crocs specifically today-

Joe Rogan 5:28 I can't believe you wore those. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 5:28 ... because you and my judge were hating on them. I'm like, "Bro." These are, by the way, Texas flag Croc.

Joe Rogan 5:35 That looks like somebody did that, though. Like some, like an artist did it.

Zachary Levi 5:38 I mean, I picked them up at, uh, (laughs) Walmart? I don't know where I picked them up. But Academy, that's where I think I grabbed them.

Joe Rogan 5:45 Oh. I was hoping there was like a f- some sort of a flea market or some shit.

Zachary Levi 5:49 Oh, that would've been fun too.

Joe Rogan 5:50 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 5:50 Like it would, they were somebody else's Crocs before.

Joe Rogan 5:52 Like somebody made them. Oh, even better.

Zachary Levi 5:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:53 (laughs) Even grosser. One grosser way to make Crocs.

Zachary Levi 5:56 But dude, Crocs are awesome though, for real.

Joe Rogan 5:57 I believe you.

Zachary Levi 5:58 For real.

Joe Rogan 5:58 I believe you.

Zachary Levi 5:59 They're very comfortable.

Joe Rogan 5:59 You're talking to a guy-

Zachary Levi 6:00 Amphibious.

Joe Rogan 6:01 ... that wears a fanny pack.

Zachary Levi 6:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:02 I am on no moral high ground.

Zachary Levi 6:05 No moral fashion high ground.

Joe Rogan 6:06 (laughs) I have fucking no fucking fashion sense.

Zachary Levi 6:08 Fanny packs are back though, bro. Fanny packs are back.

Joe Rogan 6:10 ... fact.

Zachary Levi 6:10 I never let them go.

Joe Rogan 6:11 No.

Zachary Levi 6:11 I kept them through the '90s. I really did. I kept wearing fanny flares.

Joe Rogan 6:14 They're very handy. They're handy.

Zachary Levi 6:16 I- I- I'm-

Joe Rogan 6:16 And guys don't-

Zachary Levi 6:17 ... I'm never gonna stop.

Joe Rogan 6:17 We don't have like purses. That's the-

Zachary Levi 6:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:19 ... closest thing we have to a damn purse.

Zachary Levi 6:20 A lot of folks are, uh, sportin' that-

Joe Rogan 6:22 Yeah, they got the like cross-

Zachary Levi 6:23 ... shoulder thing now that-

Joe Rogan 6:23 Yeah, yeah. It's cross thing.

Zachary Levi 6:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:24 The cross thing's all right. It's-

Zachary Levi 6:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:25 ... acceptable.

Zachary Levi 6:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:26 I'm amenable to a purse. If a man wants to wear a purse-

Zachary Levi 6:29 Ab- absolutely.

Joe Rogan 6:29 ... zero problem with that.

Zachary Levi 6:30 Remers even.

Joe Rogan 6:31 I mean maybe-

Zachary Levi 6:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:32 ... dudes get, start getting dope purses 'cause girls been dominating the purse game.

Zachary Levi 6:35 Well, they kind, nobody kinda do. I mean I've seen some dudes with like some, again, (laughs) Gucci or Fendi-

Joe Rogan 6:39 Right.

Zachary Levi 6:39 ... things that they're wearing around their belt that are basically like a little purse essentially.

Joe Rogan 6:43 When you, when I was a boy, you would get punched in the face for that.

Zachary Levi 6:45 (laughs) I mean, yeah. Probably.

Joe Rogan 6:48 Yeah. Man wants to walk around with a purse?

Zachary Levi 6:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:49 You gotta get a knuckle sandwich from a stranger.

Zachary Levi 6:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:52 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 6:52 I don't know. I think my sisters dressed me up in some of their shit a- a, you know, occasionally, so...

Joe Rogan 6:56 Do you think it's just guys ran out of ways to bling, so they had to like add purses too?

Zachary Levi 7:01 I mean, here's the thing. For me, maybe it's a bling thing. For me, it's the-

Joe Rogan 7:04 Convenience.

Zachary Levi 7:05 It's the, it's the, uh, the utility of it. Like as a guy, again, we don't have a purse, so I would, I'm always like, uh, wearing some cargo shit.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 7:15 I'm wearing a jacket that's got extra pockets because that's where I gotta... Especially when I was like, back in the day when I was a smoker, I'd have my cigarettes and my lighter and my gum and all this-

Joe Rogan 7:23 Right.

Zachary Levi 7:23 ... you know, I needed all that-

Joe Rogan 7:24 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 7:24 ... those places. I don't have this thing to go rummage around (laughs) and-

Joe Rogan 7:27 Yeah, you need-

Zachary Levi 7:27 ... and go find it all.

Joe Rogan 7:27 What if you need a snack?

Zachary Levi 7:29 And what if you need a snack?

Joe Rogan 7:30 Can't have a fucking-

Zachary Levi 7:31 Come on, man.

Joe Rogan 7:31 ... protein bar in my bag?

Zachary Levi 7:32 No.

Joe Rogan 7:33 I can't keep a protein bar in my pocket. That's gross.

Zachary Levi 7:36 (laughs) And which pocket? That's gonna get-

Joe Rogan 7:37 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 7:37 ... real mangled.

Joe Rogan 7:38 Ugh.

Zachary Levi 7:38 Real mangled real fast.

Joe Rogan 7:39 It's gonna be all gooey and all the chocolate on the outside's gonna be melted off.

Zachary Levi 7:43 Yeah, you don't want that.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Fuck all that.

Zachary Levi 7:44 You don't want that protein bar.

Joe Rogan 7:45 Yeah, the purse thing's an interesting thing and you could also do a satchel to show they're interesting, like you're- you're an intelligent, interesting person. You have a-

Zachary Levi 7:54 I think-

Joe Rogan 7:54 ... uh, uh-

Zachary Levi 7:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 7:54 ... lice worn Indiana Jones-

Zachary Levi 7:56 Sexy and-

Joe Rogan 7:57 ... type satchels.

Zachary Levi 7:59 ... intelligent (laughs) satchels.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Right?

Zachary Levi 7:59 Ex- exactly, yes.

Joe Rogan 8:00 That's a look.

Zachary Levi 8:01 Ma-

Joe Rogan 8:01 Like a guy with a satchel probably reads a lot.

Zachary Levi 8:03 I- I- I p- I (laughs) I, absolutely. Why- why else have a satchel if you don't have a lot of books in there?

Joe Rogan 8:08 He's got books in there.

Zachary Levi 8:08 He's got a lot of books. Um-

Joe Rogan 8:09 His journal he's gonna write about meeting you.

Zachary Levi 8:11 I played, uh, this character Flynn Ryder in this, uh, Disney movie, Tangled, and I had a satchel. And he's a very charming, intelligent man.

Joe Rogan 8:19 You were the voice of Flynn Ryder, that's right.

Zachary Levi 8:21 Yeah, bro.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Dude, I watched that movie at least 80 times.

Zachary Levi 8:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:25 I'm not-

Zachary Levi 8:25 Well, you got girls.

Joe Rogan 8:26 Kidding, I've got young girls.

Zachary Levi 8:26 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Yeah, they were of the perfect age.

Zachary Levi 8:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:29 So, I watched that movie forever. I didn't know that was you.

Zachary Levi 8:32 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 8:32 That's hilarious.

Zachary Levi 8:33 That's a treat. It's one of-

Joe Rogan 8:34 Dude, I loved you-

Zachary Levi 8:34 ... the coolest things I've ever done.

Joe Rogan 8:35 ... in Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Zachary Levi 8:37 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 8:37 You were great in that.

Zachary Levi 8:37 Thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 8:38 That's a fun, fun show.

Zachary Levi 8:40 Dude, that show is...

Joe Rogan 8:41 Really fun show.

Zachary Levi 8:41 It's so well done. It- it, Amy Sherman-Palladino and, uh, her husband, Dan, they, they are... And really everybody involved in that show, but they are, I think, they're geniuses. I- I think that the way they write, direct, produce, so much of that, the two of them, plus lots of other talented people obviously that come in and direct and produce and write, and all of the incredible actors. But it's one of those things where it's just delightful. You watch the show and you're just delighted from the beginning to the end.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Yes.

Zachary Levi 9:07 And Rachel and Tony, and the- the whole cast are just so charming and the, and the, the writing is so smart and it moves and-

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 9:14 ... it's funny and you're like, "Fuck yeah, I wanna watch this all the time."

Joe Rogan 9:16 It's a really good show. Uh, and- and the way she gets into standup, like as a standup, is the least offensive-

Zachary Levi 9:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:22 ... I've ever seen-

Zachary Levi 9:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:24 ... of any of those things.

Zachary Levi 9:25 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:25 'Cause let me tell you something, it, that shit is possible. For a woman to be that funny, just a- a housewife.

Zachary Levi 9:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:32 There's people out there that are like that.

Zachary Levi 9:34 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:34 People are like, "Oh, that's unrealistic that she would kill." That is not unrealistic.

Zachary Levi 9:37 No.

Joe Rogan 9:38 There was a girl at the, uh, at the Vulcan in Austin and she was in the crowd and I was doing like a Q&A thing at the end of my set.

Zachary Levi 9:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:47 And, uh, she- she sa- asked something about, "How do you get into standup?" And she sai- and I go, "Do y- are you thinking about doing standup?" I'm like, "You should do it." She goes, uh, "I'm funny as fuck."

Zachary Levi 9:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:57 I go, "Come up here right now." I go, "Come up here right now." And she w- got on stage and she was a little drunk and it wasn't the worst, but it was funny that she did it, right?

Zachary Levi 10:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 So then, a week, two weeks later? How many... Maybe it was longer than that. Maybe it was like a month later. I'm on stage and I see her again. And, uh, I- i- I don't remember how it came up and I said, "Do you wanna come up here and do standup?" And she said yes and she went up again and she had prepared and she had notes. And she fucking killed.

Zachary Levi 10:28 Fuck yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:29 I mean, fucking killed and she didn't just fucking kill, she fucking killed after me. Like, I had done an hour of standup.

Zachary Levi 10:35 Oh, wow, man.

Joe Rogan 10:35 And then I'm doing Q&A and then she goes up and kills.

Zachary Levi 10:38 And then here comes the amuse-bouche.

Joe Rogan 10:39 It was real.

Zachary Levi 10:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:40 Like, I was like, "This is like a real Mrs. Maisel." Like, that's a possible thing for a- a girl.

Zachary Levi 10:45 Well, I mean-

Joe Rogan 10:46 Or for anybody.

Zachary Levi 10:46 For anybody.

Joe Rogan 10:47 For a guy.

Zachary Levi 10:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have some guys-

Joe Rogan 10:48 I knew guys that never did standup that were funnier than me, th- funnier than most of my friends.

Zachary Levi 10:52 Yeah. I- I think most of, my funniest friends are not actually like in entertainment like that.

Joe Rogan 10:57 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 10:57 They're- they're these snipers, man. Like, the, every single day at any given moment, they're about to say something, something's about to come out of their mouth-

Joe Rogan 11:05 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 11:05 ... and everyone's gonna be like, "Bah!"

Joe Rogan 11:07 Yes.

Zachary Levi 11:07 Like kids. And they're not like, you know, they're-

Joe Rogan 11:10 Regular people.

Zachary Levi 11:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:11 That's why they're so funny.

Zachary Levi 11:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Because they're not trying to perform, they're just actually being themselves, which is funny, and they enjoy being funny.

Zachary Levi 11:18 Well, but, a- absolutely, and then I would also add though that, uh, how cool of you to give this cool girl a- a bit of a spotlight, to give that, and the encouragement that you gave her, and that she would take that. I mean, that, that goes a long way. When Joe Rogan is saying, "You got something there. Let- go work on that." And she does, you know.

Joe Rogan 11:34 It was fun. She wa- she had a great, um, sense of humor in like she was, she was fun at like doing banter. You know?

Zachary Levi 11:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:40 And so when she went up and did it, I was like, "Fuck yeah, she fucking killed." Like that woman, 100% could be a professional comic. If she dedicated herself to it, w- 100% she could do it. And that's like a Mrs. Maisel type character, like I've-

Zachary Levi 11:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 ... seen people like that before. They, I used to work for a guy who was a private investigator, his name is Dave Dolan, and he was one of the funniest fucking human beings I've ever met in my life. Like I wor- I, he needed a pri- he needed a driver really, lost his license drinking and driving.

Zachary Levi 12:08 Oh.

Joe Rogan 12:09 And so he put an ad in the paper for a private investigator's assistant and, uh, I needed a job while I was like doing standup.

Zachary Levi 12:17 Oh, no shit.

Joe Rogan 12:18 Yeah. So I became this guy's driver. And so I hung out with him and he was a private investigator and so-

Zachary Levi 12:23 Was, how long did you work for him?

Joe Rogan 12:25 I think it was at least six months, 'cause I forget how long his driver's license was suspended for.

Zachary Levi 12:31 Was that a trip or what, bro?

Joe Rogan 12:33 It was the best.

Zachary Levi 12:33 Like, you're literally just on a case all the time.

Joe Rogan 12:36 All the time.

Zachary Levi 12:37 (laughs) All the time.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Yeah, we were on cases all day. I got to see how they catch people. Most of the time, it was people that were cheating on insurance companies.

Zachary Levi 12:44 Sure, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Like, they were, like, say if you got hurt, you would-

Zachary Levi 12:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 ... you would-

Zachary Levi 12:47 Workman's comp, that kinda stuff.

Joe Rogan 12:48 ... work. Yeah.

Zachary Levi 12:48 Totally.

Joe Rogan 12:48 You guys were working under the table.

Zachary Levi 12:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 And so they would take photos of them-

Zachary Levi 12:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:52 ... and catch them lying and stuff like that. But there was that one guy that his, his wife was getting plowed by this bodybuilder. And he kept-

Zachary Levi 12:59 Oh, that's fun.

Joe Rogan 12:59 ... and he kept wanting my friend Dave to take pictures. He'd say, "Listen, you sick fuck."

Zachary Levi 13:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:04 "You know what the fucking deal is."

Zachary Levi 13:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:05 "You know what the guy's doing. We're done here."

Zachary Levi 13:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:09 (laughs) "I'm not gonna fucking take pictures, you weirdo, of this guy fucking your girl."

Zachary Levi 13:14 Oh, wow. Wow.

Joe Rogan 13:14 "You need to take those pictures. You take them."

Zachary Levi 13:16 I like that he has no standards. He's not just gonna go and hand that down.

Joe Rogan 13:18 Dude, he was hilarious, and he never did stand up. If that guy ever went on stage, he would f- he would have fucking murdered from the moment he went up there. He was just like this really funny Irish guy from Boston, just fucking funny all the time.

Zachary Levi 13:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:33 He was the guy that, like, when you're eating dinner, he was the one who would crack in with something and everybody be slapping the table.

Zachary Levi 13:38 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:39 He was just an animal.

Zachary Levi 13:40 But there's also, I guess, that, you know, you have to have some kind of inherent, uh, confidence and also, uh, (laughs) insanity to go up and do standup and just, you know, be there working without a net.

Joe Rogan 13:54 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 13:54 And, and just literally saying, "Hey, this is me, and these are my words that I think are funny. I hope you do too." I mean, that, that's... So sometimes even very, very, very funny people, if put into that spotlight, they're not always necessarily totally capable, I guess, but...

Joe Rogan 14:10 Yeah. It's... Well, it's, it's a skill, and you gotta learn how to do it. But the thing is, like, some people really can't ever do it. But if you can do that, like what that girl did when she went on stage at, at my show, or you could do what Mrs. Maisel does in that show, you can actually do standup. It's just a matter of, like, learning the rest of it. Like have... It's like a... It becomes more comprehensive, right? Like what, what are my bits supposed to be about?

Zachary Levi 14:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:33 Are they just being silly?

Zachary Levi 14:34 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:34 Am I trying to say something?

Zachary Levi 14:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:35 What... Am I, like, sacrificing funny to try to make myself seem smart? And there's a lot of, like, weird games you play with your mind to try to get the material right. But the point is, like, that show is, like, one of the best shows ever for standup, because it, it really did a great job at capturing the time. It really did a great job of capturing Lenny Bruce.

Zachary Levi 14:55 Oh, he's so good.

Joe Rogan 14:56 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 14:56 So good.

Joe Rogan 14:57 And that... Who's the gentleman that plays Lenny Bruce?

Zachary Levi 14:59 Uh, Luke, um, Luke Kirby? Uh, I think it's Luke Kirby. I could be totally wrong.

Joe Rogan 15:04 Let's find out his name, give him some props-

Zachary Levi 15:05 If I'm mangling this, I'm so sorry.

Joe Rogan 15:06 ... because he does a really good job.

Zachary Levi 15:07 He's so good, man.

Joe Rogan 15:08 Really good job.

Zachary Levi 15:09 Like, it's so spot on.

Joe Rogan 15:10 Yeah. You believe it.

Zachary Levi 15:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:12 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 15:13 I love, I love standup comedy. I've been, um...

Joe Rogan 15:16 Oh, Luke Kirby.

Zachary Levi 15:16 Yeah, Luke Kirby.

Joe Rogan 15:17 You nailed it.

Zachary Levi 15:17 There you go, Lukie boy.

Joe Rogan 15:18 And he looked very much like Lenny Bruce.

Zachary Levi 15:20 Oh, yeah. His man- He's really got the mannerisms down.

Joe Rogan 15:23 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 15:23 I remember watching and rehearsing, like, listening to old Lenny Bruce-

Joe Rogan 15:26 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 15:26 ... and, like, just trying to find that rhythm and the cadence and stuff. And, oh, it, he's so good. I mean, everybody in the cast is so good.

Joe Rogan 15:33 That time is a strange t- Like, standup by itself is a very strange thing, because it's, a lot of the old standup doesn't work anymore, because it's just, you already know those things. Like, uh, they're not f- they're not shocking. They're, you know, like-

Zachary Levi 15:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:47 ... these are all like, uh... But it's because people like him-

Zachary Levi 15:49 Well, the envelope has been pushed so far.

Joe Rogan 15:52 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 15:52 I mean, the envelope is off the, (laughs) the edge at this point-

Joe Rogan 15:55 Yes.

Zachary Levi 15:55 ... as far as what is comedic material and what, you know, what roads can be crossed and all that jazz.

Joe Rogan 15:59 For sure, but Lenny was the first guy to push it.

Zachary Levi 16:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 Lenny was the first guy to really, like, push the envelope. He, he's the first guy-

Zachary Levi 16:05 He got arrested like multiple times.

Joe Rogan 16:07 Multiple times. So did Carlin.

Zachary Levi 16:08 Yeah. Oh, yeah, Carlin was arrested, too.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Carlin was arrested for it, too.

Zachary Levi 16:10 Carlin was great. Carlin was great.

Joe Rogan 16:11 But so those, those guys, uh, I mean, that's why the envelope got moved. It's because the-these guys were constantly moving it forward and forward. B- Before them, no one even did that kind of comedy. Comedy was all just jokes.

Zachary Levi 16:23 Yeah, it was all yuck-yuck stuff, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:24 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 16:24 Like the, like the hacks that she goes and sees when, like, she's waiting to get a spot.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Exactly.

Zachary Levi 16:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:28 Exac- That, that was well-represented, too. And then the hunger and, like, the fucking, you know, trying to make it and all that stuff, it, it seemed realistic.

Zachary Levi 16:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 16:37 It was, it was good. It's a good show. And, uh, Rachel's fantastic.

Zachary Levi 16:41 She's so good.

Joe Rogan 16:41 She's really something.

Zachary Levi 16:41 And she's a lovely person, like-

Joe Rogan 16:43 Can imagine, she must be.

Zachary Levi 16:44 Yeah, yeah. They're, they're all awesome.

Joe Rogan 16:45 No one's that good an actor. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 16:48 (laughs) I don't know. Some people are maybe.

Joe Rogan 16:50 They might be. They might be.

Zachary Levi 16:51 Hollywood's full of a lot of interesting deceit, too, bro.

Joe Rogan 16:53 I know. I know, it is.

Zachary Levi 16:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:55 And sometimes we get to watch it on trial.

Zachary Levi 16:58 Um, oh, yeah. Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 16:59 How wild is it that they had a relationship trial? Like, this is who was more fucked up in the relationship.

Zachary Levi 17:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Let's, let's show the whole world.

Zachary Levi 17:07 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how I feel about... I, I... Like, there's a part of me that just wishes that nobody would really care about any of that drama as it unfolds, 'cause it's not pertinent to anybody's life, really, or making the world (laughs) a better place, like-

Joe Rogan 17:21 Who gets paid for the advertising money from that trial? (laughs) There must have been a lot of it.

Zachary Levi 17:26 Um-

Joe Rogan 17:26 Who gets the... Does Johnny get a cut-

Zachary Levi 17:28 Who was there?

Joe Rogan 17:28 ... of the YouTube ti- (laughs)

Zachary Levi 17:29 Was it all YouTube?

Joe Rogan 17:31 I don't know. I mean, but a lot of it is available on YouTube. I mean, where... Was it available for free when it came out? How did they, uh-

Guest 17:38 I think the people making the videos are making money. I feel like I saw an article that said someone's making, like, 60 grand a month-

Zachary Levi 17:43 (laughs)

Guest 17:43 ... making reaction videos to the trial or something like that.

Zachary Levi 17:46 Just reaction videos of the trial?

Guest 17:48 I... Or showing it or h-highlights of it.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Everybody wants to know what everybody else thinks about it. That, the trial's a perfect thing to have a reaction video, 'cause there's so many moments in that trial.

Zachary Levi 17:57 Certainly, certainly. But I think things like that, though, uh, ultimately, they're... I don't know, man. It, I, I feel like it's making us-... less empathetic, ultimately.

Joe Rogan 18:09 Yes.

Zachary Levi 18:09 It is, it is making ev- we all get to look at these people, literally, you know, like you're saying, like they're, they're having a, a marital dispute. We're all getting brought in on their nons-

Joe Rogan 18:19 Right.

Zachary Levi 18:19 ... not nonsense, their, their shit, their traumas-

Joe Rogan 18:21 Their shit.

Zachary Levi 18:21 ... all that stuff. And everyone just gets to sit around eating popcorn and judging the entire fiasco because it's entertainment now. It's like everything is content and ev-everything is entertainment. But the more we do that kind of stuff, I do feel like we're f- we're pulling farther apart from being able to look at either her or him and say, "You both have issues and you both need to work on some shit." And, you know, however the, the jury and all that, that found it, I ultimately, I saw little bits and pieces. It seemed like he was more in the right than she was. I would have gone with that too, but the point is they're still human beings, both of them, at the end of the day, and they're just a circus when, when we see it like that.

Joe Rogan 18:57 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 18:57 Seemingly.

Joe Rogan 18:58 I think he wanted the circus because the circus exposes the truth. I think that was the only way to expose the truth.

Zachary Levi 19:05 But-

Joe Rogan 19:05 Was to, to get her to talk about stuff on camera, and he felt like she would kind of fall apart.

Zachary Levi 19:12 Certainly.

Joe Rogan 19:13 So-

Zachary Levi 19:13 But I don't think that-

Joe Rogan 19:14 It's not good.

Zachary Levi 19:14 That could've been done just in a courtroom without it airing to the rest of the world.

Joe Rogan 19:18 (inhales deeply) Yeah.

Zachary Levi 19:19 All that stuff would've been had to have said on, on some cameras that are recording in that room and-

Joe Rogan 19:24 Are we trying to pretend the jury didn't know how the rest of the world felt?

Zachary Levi 19:27 (laughs) I know, it's so ridiculous, dude.

Joe Rogan 19:30 Because in that case-

Zachary Levi 19:30 It's so ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 19:31 In, in that case...

Zachary Levi 19:31 How do you keep jurors away from anything anymore? Like-

Joe Rogan 19:33 How do you keep them away from their phones?

Zachary Levi 19:35 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 19:37 Like, do we give up on that? On jurors being influenced by the outside world?

Zachary Levi 19:41 No. Um, uh, that's still very much the law, I believe.

Joe Rogan 19:44 But wasn't it at a certain point in time that they were restricted? Like, they weren't allowed-

Zachary Levi 19:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:48 ... to watch media-

Zachary Levi 19:49 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:49 ... or something like that?

Zachary Levi 19:50 Totally.

Joe Rogan 19:50 They were sequestered.

Zachary Levi 19:51 Yeah. I mean the, the-

Joe Rogan 19:52 Is that still going on or did they get to go home?

Zachary Levi 19:54 It depends on the trial. I think so, yeah. Like, in the OJ Simpson trial, all those guys got sequestered for a long fucking time.

Joe Rogan 20:00 (exhales)

Zachary Levi 20:00 Oh, man. It was not (laughs) not ideal for any of them.

Joe Rogan 20:03 And after all that, they still come up with a fucked up verdict. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 20:06 I mean, it, it, it was a, that was...

Joe Rogan 20:08 Ugh.

Zachary Levi 20:08 I, I agree. I don't, I don't see him as being innocent in that at all. But, you know, Rodney King had just gotten beaten on a freeway.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yup.

Zachary Levi 20:17 And there was a lot of anger and a lot of-

Joe Rogan 20:19 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 20:19 ... pain and frustration. And again, not that that should make the other right or whatever, but it's still just, I think, we gotta come back and be like, uh, you know. I don't know. Humans-

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah, no, you're-

Zachary Levi 20:30 We're humans.

Joe Rogan 20:30 You're, you're right. We're, like, everyone who's mocking the trial, me included, is not being empathetic to the fact that these are two human beings.

Zachary Levi 20:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:38 But there's something about liars, in particular, that people when they're lying and they are, uh, doing it to try to damage someone else.

Zachary Levi 20:46 Yeah. Oh, it's horrible.

Joe Rogan 20:47 It's one of the creepiest-

Zachary Levi 20:50 It's horrible.

Joe Rogan 20:50 So there's, there's a certain amount of signaling that everybody's doing by not being empathetic because it is such a public thing. There's a certain amount of signaling that we're doing to each other saying, "Hey, that is fucking bullshit always." And everybody kind of agrees. And then it's, it's kind of better for people. It's better for people to see that on display and see people's reaction to it, and make people think about what is it like if someone lies about something just to try to damage someone.

Zachary Levi 21:19 Yeah. Well, listen, I 100% believe that all lies should be exposed, that, you know, sunlight is the best disinfectant. We should be able to talk about all that shit for sure. Um, but I think, yeah, hopefully, it can be done where we all get the example that-

Joe Rogan 21:33 But we're still nice to each other.

Zachary Levi 21:34 But we're st-

Joe Rogan 21:34 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 21:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:35 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 21:35 We're still radically loving each other. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:38 Yeah. It's possible.

Zachary Levi 21:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 It is possible. It, it is, it's possible for people to be way nicer to each other.

Zachary Levi 21:43 Well-

Joe Rogan 21:44 But that stuff's not good, right?

Zachary Levi 21:45 No. And, and, and people, they're still responsible, you know. Like, I think that we can both, we can both acknowledge that, as crazy as it might sound, but no one's at fault but everyone's responsible.

Joe Rogan 21:58 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 21:58 You know, you get programmed by your parents, who are programmed by their parents, who are programmed by their parents.

Joe Rogan 22:03 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 22:04 And so on. I mean, it's generational trauma. And it's not just your parents, sometimes it's other people in your family, or your community, or your society, or your country, or your faith, or whatever it is. But all that stuff is the coding you get as a little soul growing up. And so that's how you behave, by and large. I mean, there's like psychopaths and sociopaths that might be born with a little, like, physiological, you know, something wrong, but ev- all of us are nature and nurture, like, through and through, so.

Joe Rogan 22:27 Yeah, that's the determinism perspective, right? That life is kind of led you to this moment and-

Zachary Levi 22:33 Yes, but the-

Joe Rogan 22:33 ... you don't really have a lot of control over it.

Zachary Levi 22:36 Well, we, we, we have to forgive ourselves for not knowing what we didn't know.

Joe Rogan 22:42 Right.

Zachary Levi 22:42 Right? We've all done stupid shit throughout our lives. I, that was one of the biggest things that was destroying me before I went to life-saving therapy. I did- I didn't know I, how much I hated myself and my self-talk was garbage the way that I-

Joe Rogan 22:54 Oh, really?

Zachary Levi 22:54 Oh, yeah, man. It was so bad.

Joe Rogan 22:55 You're a beautiful, tall, handsome fella.

Zachary Levi 22:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:57 Why would you have bad self-talk? You got a wonderful personality.

Zachary Levi 23:00 Oh, shit. Well, thank you, Joe.

Joe Rogan 23:01 Your, but your self-talk should be great.

Zachary Levi 23:03 I appreciate that. Well, well, okay. But I, again, I didn't know what I didn't know. And what I didn't know was that my whole life, my parents, my mom and stepdad particularly, were very abusive, psychologically abusive, uh, types of people. You know, because they were also super psychologically abused by their respective parents, right?

Joe Rogan 23:24 Right.

Zachary Levi 23:25 So but there, your parents' voice, more often than not, in my humble opinion, the, the voice that you have for yourself, that's you just echoing the way they talked to you.

Joe Rogan 23:34 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 23:34 So that's why no matter what I may look like or what I've accomplished in my life and even up to the point at 37 when I moved out here to Austin and I had this whole breakdown. Like even up to that point, like, I still felt like I was failing my life entirely. I had accomplished so many things and I still felt like I was failing because my self-talk was garbage. I just-

Joe Rogan 23:52 So did you feel like you were failing, like, in looking at your career or did you think you were failing at life?

Zachary Levi 23:59 Everything.

Joe Rogan 23:59 Everything.

Zachary Levi 24:00 All things.

Joe Rogan 24:00 All things.

Zachary Levi 24:00 I was 37. Yeah. I was 37-

Joe Rogan 24:01 But your career was going well.

Zachary Levi 24:04 ... to some, uh, looking from the outside-

Joe Rogan 24:07 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 24:07 ... it'd be like, "That guy's got it all," or whatever, absolutely, totally.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 24:09 Which makes you feel even fucking worse because now you feel like a sad s- you're depr- I was in major depression and anxiety and I'm like, "Why can't I love my," you know, "Why can't I be happy and love myself wherever I'm at right now?" And then you go, "Oh, yeah, and you have all this stuff, you-"

Joe Rogan 24:24 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 24:24 "... shithead."

Joe Rogan 24:25 (laughs) Yeah, shithead.

Zachary Levi 24:26 Like, and then you just-

Joe Rogan 24:26 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 24:26 ... start shitting on yourself, you, I mean it's-

Joe Rogan 24:28 And it's worse.

Zachary Levi 24:29 ... it's- it's this horrible-

Joe Rogan 24:29 Oh, no.

Zachary Levi 24:29 ... downward spiral that you go down, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:32 Oh, no.

Zachary Levi 24:32 But that's why that's stinking thinking. That's why you gotta go to therapy and- and have professionals just walk you through like-

Joe Rogan 24:40 How you should think about things.

Zachary Levi 24:40 ... "Hey, hey, let's help you see yourself, the world, and how you fit into it more clearly."

Joe Rogan 24:46 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 24:46 "Let's- let's do that. Let's unpack these ideas, let's talk about trauma." Let's be able to tell the person, like, "Hey, it's not your fault. You're responsible 100%. No matter what happens in your life, if you've done it, you're responsible for that." But we shouldn't, you know, so we should hold everybody accountable and responsible while simultaneously not dehumanizing them-

Joe Rogan 25:04 Right.

Zachary Levi 25:04 ... at the same time. That's- that's the- the- the push and the pull, I think. And it's just easy, we all want to dehumanize because we've all been taught in other, us and them-

Joe Rogan 25:13 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 25:13 ... our whole lives. Our nations, our tribes, our faiths, our whatever. I mean, all of these things are, I mean, fuck, man, we're so divided. The- the country, the world is so-

Joe Rogan 25:21 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 25:21 ... so, so divided right now and, uh, we're- fear is not gonna ... We can only love our way to a better future. We can't-

Joe Rogan 25:29 Yeah, we're not gonna-

Zachary Levi 25:30 We can't hate our way there.

Joe Rogan 25:31 ... animosity our way-

Zachary Levi 25:32 No.

Joe Rogan 25:32 ... to enlightenment.

Zachary Levi 25:33 No, we're not.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Zachary Levi 25:34 And even- and even if we can build some kind of weird dystopian f- future, whatever that fucking is, we're all gonna be s- that much more miserable because what are we gonna ... We're gonna save the planet but hate each other (laughs) in the future while we're on that? No, we gotta fucking figure it out. We gotta figure out how to coexist genuinely. But I think all of that comes down to, initially, self-love and then being able to love somebody because now, like, you know, in a plane analogy, you put your own mask on before helping other people with their masks. A lot of my life, I was trying to go love everybody. "I'm just trying to get everybody's ..." And I'm just fucking suffocating and dying-

Joe Rogan 26:07 Hm.

Zachary Levi 26:07 ... and falling on the c- you know, the cabin floor until I went to therapy and I was like, "Oh, shit, I don't- I don't even understand how to love myself, how to take care of myself, really, like, invest in myself." I had in moments throughout my life, but if you don't value yourself, you're not going to invest in yourself.

Joe Rogan 26:23 Y- we always hear those stories about the person who's doing really well and then they decide to take their own life and it's so baffling to us.

Zachary Levi 26:31 Oh, man, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:32 It's- and I think for some, even if they're doing really well, they compare themselves to people who are doing better and they always feel bad.

Zachary Levi 26:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:41 Like, we've told the story about this guy Richard Jeni who was, like, a really huge comedian in the '80s and '90s and, uh, he wound up killing himself. And he always wanted to be like Jim Carrey, he wanted to be a movie star.

Zachary Levi 26:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:51 It just never really happened.

Zachary Levi 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:53 But for, as, for comics, he was, like, one of the best comics alive. Like, he was the guy who would- comics would go and sit in the back room to watch his set.

Zachary Levi 27:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:00 And you'd leave going, "Fuck, he's good. Goddamn, that guy's good." But he- that wasn't enough. Like, he- for what- whatever chemical imbalance he had-

Zachary Levi 27:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:09 ... whatever, you know, bad self-talk, whatever life trauma and whatever he was going through, it was just too much.

Zachary Levi 27:16 Well, a lot of people, I mean, genuinely, a lot of people are programmed with some form of "you're not good enough" programming.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Right. Right.

Zachary Levi 27:24 You know? I- I- I take it, having listened to many of your conversations, you're somebody who has always had a really innate self-worth about you. You invest in yourself on a high rate and have been doing it for a really long time. Myself, other pe- you know, lots of other people I know, we're not ... There's that self ... If you are still always chasing because nothing is ever ultimately a good enough thing to finally say, "I accomplished enough to silence the voices in my head that are telling me I'm not good enough-"

Joe Rogan 27:53 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 27:53 ... that's a- you'll- you'll be forever chasing that. And, uh, f- seemingly, that's probably what happened to him. He was- something happened in his growth, either as a child or even later on as an adult or both or whatever, and that was something that he could never g- he could never get that monkey off his back. I can relate to that hardcore.

Joe Rogan 28:09 Yeah. I think sometimes people also get in these patterns of thinking, like, really negative patterns of thinking, and they can't get off the tracks. Like, they're stuck in a groove with the way they think about things. They're always thinking that everything's going bad for them.

Zachary Levi 28:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:24 They're always thinking everything's- everything's gonna be worse in the future and f- everything's falling apart and they can't get it out of their head. They can never go look on the bright side. It's like- it's almost like it's not available to them anymore.

Zachary Levi 28:35 Well, but that- but there's a lot of evidence to the fact that that's really neuroplasticity.

Joe Rogan 28:41 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 28:42 So when traumas or when memories or whenever they- you know, those galvanize in our head, well, now it's like a- it's a- a circuit.

Joe Rogan 28:48 Right.

Zachary Levi 28:48 It's a- it's a root. And so when you- like, uh, you know, putting a deeper groove into a record, you're just- the more you think about that same trauma or that same thing that's holding you back, the more it's going to hold you back.

Joe Rogan 29:00 Right.

Zachary Levi 29:00 Uh, do you know Dr.- uh, Dr. Joe Dispenza? You ever heard of Dr. Joe Dispenza?

Joe Rogan 29:04 Uh, not really.

Zachary Levi 29:06 He's like-

Joe Rogan 29:07 Oh, okay.

Zachary Levi 29:08 I can't remember-

Joe Rogan 29:08 I think I've seen him on, uh, Instagram.

Zachary Levi 29:09 Yeah, but he's- he's like-

Joe Rogan 29:10 I might even follow him.

Zachary Levi 29:11 ... I think he was a chiropractor, doctor, but then ultimately he's really been kind of leading the charge for, um, I don't know, like, energy connectivity in your body, your ability t- for, uh, you know, to think your way to a better life ultimately because our- our thoughts are so powerful that they can affect our bodies. This is kind of, you know, the- the- the world that he's into.

Joe Rogan 29:36 Hm.

Zachary Levi 29:36 But I think- but I do think there's a lot-

Joe Rogan 29:38 That world makes me super suspicious.

Zachary Levi 29:40 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 29:40 Yeah. Anytime p- people start talking about, like, manifesting the world through the ideas and-

Zachary Levi 29:45 Oh, man, I think it's so real. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:47 What do you think is real?

Zachary Levi 29:49 I do.

Joe Rogan 29:49 Do you think-

Zachary Levi 29:49 Well, I think prayer is manifestation. I think manifestation is prayer. I think that that is a real thing and it's not- it- I don't think it's just a fluke that people have been doing it for so, so, so, so, so long and-

Joe Rogan 30:01 I-

Zachary Levi 30:01 ... feel something very deep through it. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 30:03 I think it's a method to achieve focus, for sure. And I think, just, one of the things about prayer is prayer is very similar to meditation in that they're both, like-... really good. They're both really good for you.

Zachary Levi 30:13 Certainly.

Joe Rogan 30:13 So meditation where you're th- literally thinking about nothing, and prayer, where you're praising God or thinking about the energy of the universe-

Zachary Levi 30:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:22 ... or whatever it is.

Zachary Levi 30:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:23 What you're doing is, you're, you're putting out gratitude. You're putting out this, like, feeling of, of appreciation.

Zachary Levi 30:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:31 And all of those things are, like, really good ideas.

Zachary Levi 30:33 Absolutely. But that-

Joe Rogan 30:35 All those things are really good.

Zachary Levi 30:35 And but that, by doing that, j- I mean, ju- the thought exercise is, by doing that, you change your aura. You change your energy. You are also rewriting the neuroplasticity in your mind to break those habits and those cycles that have just been stuck there.

Joe Rogan 30:48 I think, I think you definitely do something. Something's going on. I don't know if it's through your aura, though.

Zachary Levi 30:53 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 30:53 When people start talking auras and chakras, I'm like, "Slow down. Slow down."

Zachary Levi 30:59 Listen, I-

Joe Rogan 30:59 Are we talking nonsense? (laughs)

Zachary Levi 31:00 I don't know. I mean, listen, listen, listen.

Joe Rogan 31:02 I'm not sure. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 31:02 Maybe it is. Maybe it is.

Joe Rogan 31:03 I don't know.

Zachary Levi 31:03 But i- it's no more nonsense than anything else that we think-

Joe Rogan 31:06 Right.

Zachary Levi 31:06 ... is probably true. Like, I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 31:08 Right. And it probably really also puts you in a positive state of mind, which can be very effective at improving your life.

Zachary Levi 31:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:15 Yeah. And-

Zachary Levi 31:15 But I think, but I do think that we are ... While, yes, we are these bags of meat that walk around in this physical world, I, I fully believe that there's a soul in us, and that is something that is other than physical. And whatever that is operates in a slightly different way. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 31:33 Yeah, I think there's something in there, too. I wonder what it is. You know, what we're, what we're calling the soul, it's like, it's like consciousness that's untethered from language and untethered from life experiences.

Zachary Levi 31:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:45 It's just, just whatever your essence is.

Zachary Levi 31:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:48 And then everything else you're doing, like we were talking about the way, uh, these ideas get sort of carved into your mind and how people can help you manipulate your mind to get rid of some of these bad ideas-

Zachary Levi 32:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:02 ... and bad self-talk. And it, it begs the question, like, what are we really? W- some weird combination of life experiences and noises that we can make with our mouths?

Zachary Levi 32:13 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:13 And-

Zachary Levi 32:14 Well-

Joe Rogan 32:14 But at the center of it all, there's a thing. Like, we all believe that we're, like, navigating through words and having conversations-

Zachary Levi 32:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:22 ... through language.

Zachary Levi 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:23 But w- what is we?

Zachary Levi 32:25 I-

Joe Rogan 32:25 What ... We are using this language, but what is that thing? That's the-

Zachary Levi 32:29 I- that, that, the collective soul, you mean?

Joe Rogan 32:31 The thing that you get to when you get to... When you ... If you could erase all the bullshit from people and just got... get down to you-

Zachary Levi 32:38 Yeah, the essence.

Joe Rogan 32:38 ... what is that?

Zachary Levi 32:39 Yeah. I think that's a soul. I, well, and, and more specifically-

Joe Rogan 32:42 It might be.

Zachary Levi 32:43 I think, well, I think, I, I do think it is, but I think that that's a life energy, soul, but that is connected to God energy. Like, we are all little conduits of life.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 32:54 The only m- the only actual miracle in the universe that we know of right now, this place right here, this, m- you know, little blue dot, spinning ball of mud that we're all on together, that's a pretty spectacular thing. And I think all of that is just God energy, the univ- ... You know, people call ... People are c- are constantly, oh, God, the universe, whatev- ... I- like, I'm not trying to even define it for anybody other than just saying absolutely that is, I think, absolutely that is a thing. And absolutely that thing, I think, operates in love. I think that when we, when we're going after love and loving people, we are going, we're walking closer to God.

Joe Rogan 33:30 That seems to only work right here with us. It doesn't seem to work with any other animals. Other animals-

Zachary Levi 33:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:37 ... it doesn't see-

Zachary Levi 33:38 Well-

Joe Rogan 33:38 It doesn't seem to matter at all.

Zachary Levi 33:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 33:39 It's just tooth and claw.

Zachary Levi 33:41 Okay. Tr- well, listen, listen. So-

Joe Rogan 33:42 I mean, but isn't that interesting?

Zachary Levi 33:43 Y- it, it is, but I've thought about this. I, I think that ... Look, we're very special apes, right?

Joe Rogan 33:49 Yes.

Zachary Levi 33:49 Somehow, whether it was eating a bunch of mushrooms and we, you know, grew a brain, or whatever the heck it is, bro, um, but we are very ... We're called out. We're a special animal.

Joe Rogan 33:59 Yes.

Zachary Levi 34:00 Right? That shouldn't give us this cocky arrogance like this is all ours, like we've been doing for so long. We have to be in homeostasis with the rest of the world and creation, but we're fucking special, man.

Joe Rogan 34:09 Yeah, we're weird.

Zachary Levi 34:10 We're, we're super weird, yeah. But I would say, but check this out, though. Like, uh, NatureAsMetal, the Instagram, I think you follow them too.

Joe Rogan 34:18 Yes.

Zachary Levi 34:18 They're one of my favorites.

Joe Rogan 34:19 The best.

Zachary Levi 34:19 They're so good.

Joe Rogan 34:20 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 34:20 I tell everybody. In fact, I, particularly I tell, like, my vegan friends and all that stuff that are like, you know, animal, animal.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 34:25 Like, "I got you." I'm like, "Go follow that account and tell me that we are somehow these horrible creatures that are going and mowing down all these animals when they are ripping each other's limbs off, literally." It's so satisfying. Anyway, um, but NatureAsMetal, that's a great example of, yeah, this is the wild world out there.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 34:43 So, so what about that? How do you explain that? Well, I think that perhaps a lot of other species of animal just ... We evolved super fast into whatever our reasoning, uh, the fact that we even ask why, right?

Joe Rogan 34:56 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 34:56 Like, all that we have, that's ... we're set apart. I don't think those animals have literally just evolved or matured long enough to be able to have some of that. But I will say this, and this is ... Hear me out. Hear me out. I fully believe, this is how much I believe in the power of love, I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding.

Joe Rogan 35:11 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 35:13 Dogs are the greatest animal. I know you love your dog. I love my dogs.

Joe Rogan 35:20 Sure.

Zachary Levi 35:20 They're amazing. They're the best.

Joe Rogan 35:21 I, I-

Zachary Levi 35:21 I don't understand cat people. I've had cats. They're, they're cute and cuddly, but they're selfish little fuckers who don't need you ultimately, and will eat your decomposing body, uh, the second you die. Um, dogs will wait at least a couple of weeks. Um, but dogs are amazing. How the fuck do we have this amazing species of animal-

Joe Rogan 35:42 Right.

Zachary Levi 35:42 ... that exists right now, that when we met it, it would've fucking killed us as a wolf?

Joe Rogan 35:48 Right.

Zachary Levi 35:48 Right? And why ... What has made the dog not just domesticated, but what has made the dog love? And it's humans loving the dog. We have not ... We have loved dogs more than we've loved any other animal on this Earth. I mean, I think.

Joe Rogan 36:03 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 36:03 I would say. And I-

Joe Rogan 36:04 Yeah, probably.

Zachary Levi 36:05 And I, and I think because of that, you see dogs becoming better versions of themselves that aren't so wild, that don't wanna just go and fucking kill. And not that that stuff's still not in there somewhat, but this is, this is my theory. I, I really believe it. And I think that the more we would do that, the ... I mean, also, have you ever seen videos of-... like, um, animal sanctuaries where they have all kinds of different animals, like owls and cats and l- tigers and little, you know, like, uh, dachshund dogs that ... Uh, and they're like best friends. They're best fucking friends.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Right.

Zachary Levi 36:38 These little teeny dogs and these huge tigers. Or this, a cat and an owl in a tree, like, t- they would be sworn enemies, uh, in, on any other day. Like, this is not, should not happen. But because they have been taken care of, literally, in this beautiful sanctuary by human beings that are loving them all the time, could that perhaps then spill out and be like, "Oh, that is how we do that"?

Joe Rogan 36:58 Yeah, but that's Siegfried & Roy. Didn't that put a damper in that idea?

Zachary Levi 37:03 Uh, uh, listen.

Joe Rogan 37:03 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 37:03 I, I, I'm not-

Joe Rogan 37:05 'Cause it's a fucking tiger. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 37:05 ... saying that it's bulletproof, Joe.

Joe Rogan 37:07 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 37:07 I'm not saying it's bulletproof.

Joe Rogan 37:09 You can't cure that thing with love.

Zachary Levi 37:09 We have a lot, a lot of human beings, and they still do horrible things. You know what I mean? But ...

Joe Rogan 37:13 One of the things that Mike Tyson told me is that tigers only like one person.

Zachary Levi 37:18 Hm?

Joe Rogan 37:18 Like if you have a tiger, if you have a tiger as a pet, they only like one person. They don't like all the other people.

Zachary Levi 37:23 Oh.

Joe Rogan 37:23 And they're r- that becomes a real problem.

Zachary Levi 37:25 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:26 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 37:26 (laughs) That'd be a real damper at the-

Joe Rogan 37:27 They only like you.

Zachary Levi 37:28 ... at a pool party. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:28 They only listen to you.

Zachary Levi 37:30 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 37:30 So like he had a tiger that didn't wanna listen to anybody else, and everybody else was terrified of this fucking tiger, and Mike's walking around with it with a chain- (laughs)

Zachary Levi 37:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:36 ... in his underwear. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 37:38 I mean, Mike Tyson-

Joe Rogan 37:39 But the point is, it d- they don't give a fuck about love.

Zachary Levi 37:43 I, I, he, I, I, uh, you're-

Joe Rogan 37:45 Is that-

Zachary Levi 37:45 I understand what you're saying.

Joe Rogan 37:46 But with us-

Zachary Levi 37:46 I understand what you're saying.

Joe Rogan 37:46 But I understand what you're saying too.

Zachary Levi 37:47 But I, I'm just, I'm just saying theoretically, just theoretically.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Yep.

Zachary Levi 37:49 There's gotta be something, something to the power-

Joe Rogan 37:52 They have to be mean.

Zachary Levi 37:52 ... of that, that we have taken so much time and so much energy and so much effort, and we treat them with ... I mean, dude, humans love dogs more than they love other human beings. What are we, what are we even fucking talking about? Like, (laughs) how often, uh, you're like sitting in a outdoor cafe or something like, somebody's walking by with a dog or you're walking your dog and there's somebody sitting there and it's not, "Hi." They don't look at, they look at you for half a second and they go, "Oh my god, what's its name?"

Joe Rogan 38:17 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 38:17 They go straight down to the dog.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 38:19 They're asking the breed, the age, the wh- where is it from, what does it like to do, and knows all your fucking dog's happy, ha- hobbies and, and everything. And d- they'll ask a thing of the person that's got the dog and just go, "Oh, thank you so much. Have a great day," because all you wanted to do was be with their dog.

Joe Rogan 38:34 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 38:34 Dogs get all the love. They ... And look at them, they are just like love in an animal. Most of them.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Yeah, but if you let 'em go and they have to fend for themselves, they turn right back into dogs-

Zachary Levi 38:48 Ah-

Joe Rogan 38:48 ... and they get sketchy and they even kill people sometimes.

Zachary Levi 38:51 C- certainly, but again, the-

Joe Rogan 38:53 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 38:53 (laughs) But again, I think these are s- more exceptions to the rule and not, and not that-

Joe Rogan 38:57 For dogs?

Zachary Levi 38:58 Yeah. And by the way, and if people are not loved in, in-

Joe Rogan 39:00 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 39:00 ... a good way for a long time, they regress and they, we become far more animalistic. I mean ...

Joe Rogan 39:05 But you don't wanna domesticate everything, right?

Zachary Levi 39:07 I'm not s- I'm not saying- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:08 I know, but you can't, right?

Zachary Levi 39:09 I'm more just bringing it up for the point of I think love is that powerful. I genuinely do.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Oh, love is definitely that powerful for us. W- the question, the funny thing is, is, uh, this is just, I'm just fucking around, but, uh, this is a thing that always comes up with people when they wanna say, like, love is the answer. Like, not in the jungle. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 39:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:25 It doesn't, you have to d- it's like, it's tooth and claw over most of the world.

Zachary Levi 39:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:30 But we have gotten to a place where love really can do amazing and very beneficial things to our species.

Zachary Levi 39:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:37 D- our, it's because we've figured out a way to get out of the wild. I don't think you can ever domesticate the wild. Like, you'll never, you'll never have a world where those things aren't eating each other. That's, that's literally the-

Zachary Levi 39:49 Ah, ah-

Joe Rogan 39:49 ... the engine that powers the machine.

Zachary Levi 39:51 I totally ... Listen. (laughs) Like I said, I'm just throwing out-

Joe Rogan 39:54 I know.

Zachary Levi 39:54 ... ideas.

Joe Rogan 39:55 I know, I'm not even-

Zachary Levi 39:56 But-

Joe Rogan 39:56 ... disagreeing with you.

Zachary Levi 39:57 But I would say though, that in, in response to that, A, y- absolutely, noted, but I, but I, what if, what if this simulation that we're in, this game that we're all playing, life ...

Joe Rogan 40:12 Right.

Zachary Levi 40:12 What if there actually is an end winning goal?

Joe Rogan 40:17 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 40:17 Which is that we all choose love and not fear, that we all go this way. And if we all do, if we get our meter all the way up there (laughs) and get everybody on board with like, let's be leading in love and not in fear, not in the fear and the anger and the hate-

Joe Rogan 40:30 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 40:30 ... and all the things that come from that, but we actually lead this way, what if that starts energetically, literally, changing the world in a way where, uh ... I'm not saying we're all gonna be hanging out with tigers and things.

Joe Rogan 40:41 I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Yeah.

Zachary Levi 40:42 I just think that the, literally the, the energy of the world would change, 100%, because love is an energy and fear is an energy.

Joe Rogan 40:49 Well, if you just sign this bill to legalize mushrooms, we can make this a fact, Zach.

Zachary Levi 40:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:54 That's why I'm here.

Zachary Levi 40:54 Oh, bro.

Joe Rogan 40:55 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 40:56 I, I hope, I hope it does. I, I, I-

Joe Rogan 40:57 They, if they did, it would change the whole world.

Zachary Levi 40:59 Yeah, yeah. I think it's really wonderful what's going on with psychedelics and treating people for depression and anxiety and s-

Joe Rogan 41:05 Yes.

Zachary Levi 41:05 ... that's incredible. And it's so-

Joe Rogan 41:07 That is incredible.

Zachary Levi 41:07 And it's f- way long overdue. The fact that all of these drugs were put, you know, Schedule 1 and like, we couldn't do any research, we couldn't figure any- We would be so much farther ahead on all of the CBD, THC, s-

Joe Rogan 41:18 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 41:18 ... psilocybin, MDMA, whatever. Like, all of these, ketamine, things that are literally helping people right now-

Joe Rogan 41:23 Yep.

Zachary Levi 41:23 ... coulda been helping people for so long.

Joe Rogan 41:26 Also, we would have real studies on-

Zachary Levi 41:28 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:28 ... what the negative con- consequences-

Zachary Levi 41:30 100%.

Joe Rogan 41:30 ... of each individual drug are.

Zachary Levi 41:31 100%.

Joe Rogan 41:31 Because right now it's like-

Zachary Levi 41:32 100%.

Joe Rogan 41:32 ... you're, you're counting on people. What happens? "Oh, you get a little bit of a hangover afterwards, that's it." And you're like-

Zachary Levi 41:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:37 ... "What does that mean? What's happening to my head? Why does it hurt?" (laughs)

Zachary Levi 41:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Like, you know, like we know about alcohol. Why? Because it's legal, we've had a long time to study.

Zachary Levi 41:45 Yeah. Which is, by the way, the worst drug.

Joe Rogan 41:47 It's the worst.

Zachary Levi 41:47 I mean, I love me some tequila, but it literally is one of the worst things you can put in your body.

Joe Rogan 41:52 It's definitely not good for you.

Zachary Levi 41:53 No.

Joe Rogan 41:54 But it's just weird that we're still accepting this strange situation where a person tells an other person what they can and can't do.

Zachary Levi 42:02 Sure.

Joe Rogan 42:02 Even if the original person telling the other person what they can and can't do has no experience in that thing.

Zachary Levi 42:07 Certainly.

Joe Rogan 42:07 And they have this distorted idea.

Zachary Levi 42:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:09 If you talk to a lotta people that are legislators or people writing laws, they don't know jack shit about psychedelics.

Zachary Levi 42:15 Right, but see, but, but that's, case in point, that's leading in fear.

Joe Rogan 42:18 Yes.

Zachary Levi 42:19 That's, instead, instead of-

Joe Rogan 42:20 Well, it's leading in ignorance for sure. Yeah.

Zachary Levi 42:21 Sure, but I think that's all tied to the same place. I think ignorance comes out of that fear, ultimately.

Joe Rogan 42:25 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 42:25 You know what I mean? You're afraid of whatever. I mean, pick your poison, but those ...... ladies and gentlemen who are legislators, who are still operating in whatever their fear is. That's what they're choosing. Instead of, I mean, look, Rick Perry, he was a conservative dude here in Texas. He's now like, uh, he's a huge proponent of psychedelic, um, uh, work with anxiety-

Joe Rogan 42:46 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 42:46 ... and depression and all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 42:47 I've heard that.

Zachary Levi 42:47 Because I think it affected him personally in his life, not, maybe not him, but somebody in his life. So it, it changed him, and then, uh, then, instead of leading in this fear that he may have led in before, now he's leading in the love of, "Hey, actually, uh, this can help people."

Joe Rogan 43:00 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 43:00 "And I, and we need it to help people."

Joe Rogan 43:02 Yeah, it's really beneficial for soldiers, really beneficial for people that have been through, like, extreme trauma.

Zachary Levi 43:07 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:08 Car accidents, uh, uh, assaults, that kinda shit.

Zachary Levi 43:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:12 It, it helps a lot of people, changes their, your perspective.

Zachary Levi 43:15 Is this coffee?

Joe Rogan 43:15 But ... Yes, it is. Would you like some?

Zachary Levi 43:16 Yes, thank you.

Joe Rogan 43:17 But it's a tool, you know. It's like any other tool. The tool itself is not evil.

Zachary Levi 43:21 No.

Joe Rogan 43:21 The problem is people abusing that tool.

Zachary Levi 43:23 No. People, exactly, exactly.

Joe Rogan 43:24 Just like alcohol, just like everything else. There are so many things that are occasionally beneficial but can be ultimately detrimental if you overdo it.

Zachary Levi 43:33 Well, 100%. I mean, look, man, God has given us so many cool things on this planet, but, uh, we just, as human beings, we're, we get crooked.

Joe Rogan 43:42 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 43:42 And so then we make it crooked. But the thing, I mean, look at opium. They're, uh, one of the greatest pain relievers that's, I mean, st- basically still is, like, right? Uh, all of the synthetics are all basically still being made to simu- simulate something like opium. It just grows outta the ground.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 43:58 And we can use that to help people if they have amputations and all that, like all the ways that we've been using it. But if all of a sudden you're super smacked out all the time because you're hooked on some fucking, you know-

Joe Rogan 44:09 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 44:09 ... opioids and the cri-

Joe Rogan 44:10 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 44:10 ... and that crisis, and the fentanyl crisis-

Joe Rogan 44:12 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 44:12 ... and all, and, and why? Why? Money.

Joe Rogan 44:14 Why?

Zachary Levi 44:14 All money.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Yeah, all money, and the problem is it's also they're illegal. And when they're illegal that means you can sell them under prescription medication.

Zachary Levi 44:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:28 So a doctor can prescribe you for opiates, and then you could have a legitimate use for it 'cause your back does hurt, and then you can get 'em.

Zachary Levi 44:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:36 But that's the only way to get 'em unless you're out there buying 'em on the free market. And if you're just buying 'em on the free market, no one can sell 'em to you unless they're drug dealers.

Zachary Levi 44:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:44 (laughs) And the drug dealers are all the ones making money, and they're not paying any fucking taxes. And if you keep it illegal, I, I bet the same amount of people would be using drugs. I bet-

Zachary Levi 44:55 Well-

Joe Rogan 44:55 ... I bet if we knew, with education-

Zachary Levi 44:57 They've got-

Joe Rogan 44:57 ... I think we can lower it, but I think this, I bet the same amount of people would be doing drugs if we just legalized everything. I bet it would all, uh, I bet it would even out. I bet it would hav- actually drop a level.

Zachary Levi 45:09 They, they have done s- studies. I mean, there are some, some cases already, in Colorado, I read an article not too long ago, that, uh, Colorado's, uh, marijuana usage has dropped.

Joe Rogan 45:19 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 45:20 Because it's-

Joe Rogan 45:20 'Cause it's too fucking strong. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 45:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:22 Have you tried some of that shit?

Zachary Levi 45:24 Uh-

Joe Rogan 45:24 Colorado's not fucking around, man.

Zachary Levi 45:26 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 45:27 Colorado has some preposterous marijuana, 'cause they were first to the game.

Zachary Levi 45:31 I know.

Joe Rogan 45:32 You know, Warren Buffett-

Zachary Levi 45:32 I know.

Joe Rogan 45:33 ... invested in grow ops there.

Zachary Levi 45:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:35 He invested in warehouses-

Zachary Levi 45:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:36 ... that they would, uh, put these, 'cause they, a lot of them, they grow 'em indoors.

Zachary Levi 45:42 The ... Oh, yeah, almost all of them, I feel-

Joe Rogan 45:43 Yeah, I feel like all of 'em.

Zachary Levi 45:44 ... like, I've been to, I've been to some really interesting grow houses before. Yeah, Okla- Oklahoma actually has, um, it's medically, um, cool there, and I think they're gonna be working toward making it recreational as well.

Joe Rogan 45:54 Really?

Zachary Levi 45:54 Which I hope they do. I think it would be great for the, for the state, for taxes, for, like, all of the things that could be done with that, and, you know, allowing people to have more liberty in that regard, because I think we ought to have that. I think it's preposterous that we're all allowed to drink booze, which has some of the worst, you know, ultimate effects in our bodies and the decision-making that we do, and yet these other things are still seen with so much stigma. It's like, guys, come on. Again, choosing fear.

Joe Rogan 46:21 Exactly.

Zachary Levi 46:21 Fear, fear, fear, and it's like, "Guys, the, there, there's w- ... Some of this stuff is really good for you. It's really good for you."

Joe Rogan 46:26 Yeah, and the amount of money that could be generated for tax revenue, too. Colorado had some crazy tax on, on weed.

Zachary Levi 46:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:34 It was like... I don't remember what it was, but it was very high. And, like, good. Weed's still cheap. It's still cheaper than, than alcohol, and maybe that money will go to good. Maybe we could actually use that money.

Zachary Levi 46:45 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:45 Let's, let's put i- put it into education, put it in cleaning streets, put it in, like ... Fuck yeah. It's, uh, you know, uh, it should be legal and, if you can find a benefit, but in the beginning, one of the things that happened with the Colorado people was they weren't letting 'em, um, use credit cards.

Zachary Levi 47:03 Well, they're still doing that in California.

Joe Rogan 47:05 That's wild.

Zachary Levi 47:06 Yeah, you, you can only use a debit card.

Joe Rogan 47:08 I bought weed with a credit card before in California.

Zachary Levi 47:10 (sips) Hmm?

Joe Rogan 47:11 Yeah, 100%. I bought it at a dispensary.

Zachary Levi 47:14 Are you sure that wasn't a debit card that looked like a credit card?

Joe Rogan 47:17 No, no, no. It was a credit card, for sure.

Zachary Levi 47:19 When was that?

Joe Rogan 47:20 I started buying weed from a dispensary in the '90s. It was probably, like, '98 or something like that.

Zachary Levi 47:29 And they took a credit card?

Joe Rogan 47:32 Yes, they took a credit card.

Zachary Levi 47:34 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 47:34 Yeah, and then th- that was the Inglewood Wellness Center. We used to have to go to the hood to get our weed, 'cause that was, like, one of the only places where you could buy weed. Um, I don't remember if that place-

Zachary Levi 47:46 Legally.

Joe Rogan 47:46 Yeah. I definitely know I bought credit card, uh-

Zachary Levi 47:48 'Cause it was medical at that point?

Joe Rogan 47:50 ... weed with a credit card before. Yeah, it was w- medical at that point.

Zachary Levi 47:50 Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Joe Rogan 47:51 So we used to go down there to get, to get weed, but it was, uh, super sketch. The situation was super sketch 'cause everybody knew that they were selling weed there, and everybody knew there was a lot of cash in there.

Zachary Levi 48:02 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:03 And so one of the guys-

Zachary Levi 48:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:05 ... that I used to buy from wound up getting shot.

Zachary Levi 48:08 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 48:08 Yeah, he got robbed in the store and shot.

Zachary Levi 48:10 Oh, fuck. Did he live?

Joe Rogan 48:11 He, I believe he lived.

Zachary Levi 48:12 Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 48:13 Yeah, I had stopped going there, but, um, he, uh, was the dude that was, like, putting his neck out in the '90s.... you know, when it was like, "Is this really legal?" 'Cause like, I know a guy, my friend Todd McCormick got arrested for growing weed, growing medical weed in accordance to California state law. But he got arrested on federal charges, and they wouldn't even let him bring up the fact that it was medical weed that was legal in the state of California, because in federal law there's no such thing as legal weed.

Zachary Levi 48:48 Oh, that's right.

Joe Rogan 48:48 So-

Zachary Levi 48:48 Federally was still illegal. Oh, that's right.

Joe Rogan 48:50 So you couldn't even bring it up. So they just-

Zachary Levi 48:52 Oh, what?

Joe Rogan 48:52 Yup. So his trial consisted of them saying, "Did you have weed?" "Yes." "Did you sell weed?" "Yes." "Okay, you're guilty." And they put him in jail.

Zachary Levi 49:01 That is fucked up.

Joe Rogan 49:02 And you, you, we literally were not allowed to bring up the fact that it was legal in California, and that it was medical marijuana for people who have prescriptions.

Zachary Levi 49:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:13 I had this one doctor that I was going to, though. He was crazy as fuck. I went to him and then, uh-

Zachary Levi 49:18 (laughs) Did he have a peg leg?

Joe Rogan 49:18 Oh, he was so nuts. He had, like, all the new things, like new gadgets. He wanted to put, like, electrodes on your skin and... So one day I went to him and he gives me this book. I go, "What is this book?" And it's got, like, the Twin Towers on it, and he's like, "The towers were dissolved using Tesla energy." I go, "What?" And he goes, "It's impossible to turn concrete into dust. The to- the towers were dissolved using Tesla energy." I'm like... (laughs)

Zachary Levi 49:42 Was that the last time you saw that doctor? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:44 That's the last time I saw that doctor. I was like, "Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ."

Zachary Levi 49:48 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 49:49 I saved the book. I saved the book too.

Zachary Levi 49:50 (laughs) Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:50 The book is so stupid. The book is so stupid, I pick it up every now and then and go, "What the fuck is this?" It's so wild. Tesla energy.

Zachary Levi 49:59 That's a- that's a leap. That's a leap.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Some people-

Zachary Levi 50:01 Although Tesla was fucking dope, man.

Joe Rogan 50:03 Tesla was dope.

Zachary Levi 50:04 That guy... I literally think that guy is also a great example of somebody who was, like, in touch with understanding that there's-

Joe Rogan 50:10 Something going on.

Zachary Levi 50:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:11 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 50:12 But I think that's a part of being connected to that energy, to that God energy. I think you can tap into that kind of shit, and I think Tesla absolutely was. Like, that guy was next level genius.

Joe Rogan 50:20 He believes he was getting signals.

Zachary Levi 50:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 50:22 That was one of the things that he said, that he believed he was getting signals from some other planet.

Zachary Levi 50:25 Yeah. But I think that was God, though. Personally.

Joe Rogan 50:28 It ma- Well, maybe there-

Zachary Levi 50:29 It might have been... I mean, look, dude-

Joe Rogan 50:30 I mean, it could be.

Zachary Levi 50:30 It could have been an alien. Who knows?

Joe Rogan 50:32 But- No, I mean, I think that-

Zachary Levi 50:33 All that stuff he's breaking.

Joe Rogan 50:33 ... that word, that word God... The problem is, people think of the dude in the robe and the beard.

Zachary Levi 50:38 Oh, I get that.

Joe Rogan 50:38 You know?

Zachary Levi 50:38 I mean, look, I use it in a very general sense. I don't-

Joe Rogan 50:42 I can tell.

Zachary Levi 50:42 Yeah, yeah. I don't-

Joe Rogan 50:43 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 50:43 I don't... It's more just because, like it or lump it, it's-

Joe Rogan 50:46 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 50:46 It's the word that we all know that represents that concept.

Joe Rogan 50:50 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 50:50 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 50:51 Well, it could, it most certainly could be. All of your ideas could be coming from that sort of life force that created the universe. Because I've always said this, that the one thing that's weird about ideas is that it's the only way that things get made. So what is an idea? Like a, a, a, an idea is literally like a l- like a thing that enters into your mind and causes you to create things.

Zachary Levi 51:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:13 Like, if, if you were an alien-

Zachary Levi 51:16 Generative.

Joe Rogan 51:16 ... thought-

Zachary Levi 51:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:16 ... like an alien life form, and w- the way you made things work is you got into this creature's brain and you put thoughts in there as to what to do and what not to do. And if you're Nikola Tesla, they put thoughts in there about, "Oh, you need to fucking figure out how to just spray electricity through the air to everybody."

Zachary Levi 51:36 (laughs) And sit under it.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 51:38 Uh-

Joe Rogan 51:38 I mean, he was, uh, he was a guy that was constantly coming up with ideas, and then through his ideas things get made.

Zachary Levi 51:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:47 But it's like the idea, it's almost like a life form that forces itself-

Zachary Levi 51:52 Well, it's a creative thought.

Joe Rogan 51:53 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 51:53 It's a creative thought process, and it's something that we don't see in... And not that other animals aren't, don't display some levels of creativity, 'cause they do. Uh, but by and large, they're not sitting around being like, "How do I, how do I make my day easier? What can I do-"

Joe Rogan 52:07 Right.

Zachary Levi 52:07 ... you know? They're all just still living... By the way, until they're totally torn up by some predator, uh, or whatever, they're living pretty great lives. They're in constant state of, like, parasympathetic.

Joe Rogan 52:18 Right.

Zachary Levi 52:19 You know, they're, they're, they'll jump into sympathetic for moments at a time, like when you're hunting down an elk or whatever, like, "Ga-ga-ga-ga-ga," and then they get... And then they're like, "All right, com- back to, back to life now."

Joe Rogan 52:28 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 52:28 "I'm just gonna go right back into chilling. I'm not worrying about my taxes, I'm not worrying about my relationships, I'm not worrying about work or anything else. It's either I'm worrying about surviving or I'm living my life."

Joe Rogan 52:37 Yup.

Zachary Levi 52:37 You know? It's fascinating. But I think with Tesla, yeah, I, I think that creative, creative thinking, which seems to be very, you know, not singularly, but almost singularly human being, uh, that is a difference in our, these crazy amazing special brains that we have.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 52:56 And I think that, yeah, that they tap into something greater.

Joe Rogan 53:01 It definitely is very capable, the, the human being, the human animal, is very capable of making new things.

Zachary Levi 53:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:09 And new things all come out of ideas.

Zachary Levi 53:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:12 I mean, we like to think that our ideas are our own. But imagine if they really are just out there and you're tuning into them, and it's just a matter of, like, sitting down and clearing your schedule to tune into them, or occasionally-

Zachary Levi 53:24 That's-

Joe Rogan 53:24 ... driving your car and you tune into them.

Zachary Levi 53:26 Yeah, yeah. Med- I mean, that's a meditative state, essentially.

Joe Rogan 53:28 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 53:28 You know? I've absolutely had so many... When I, when I was first starting in acting, I, I grew up in Ventura, California, and about an hour, you know, northwest from LA, and the first three years I commuted down to LA for all my auditions, so I was on the 101 all the time. There were so many mornings where I'd get in my car, I would, you know, start the day with, like, a prayer or something like that, I'm just driving, and I would forget to turn my radio on. I would just be lost in thought.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Right.

Zachary Levi 53:53 And not only does the trip... You know, you, you ever drive some long distance and, but you know the distance, and it feels like you blink and 30 miles went by? You have no idea.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Mm-hmm.

Zachary Levi 54:02 You don't remember seeing any of that at all.

Joe Rogan 54:04 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 54:05 It's like that meditative state that you find yourself in. All, you know, maybe in, in some ways it's like a, a, you know, a version of, a not as great version of as your, your, um, sensory dep-

Joe Rogan 54:13 Float tank.

Zachary Levi 54:13 Dep- Yeah, your float tank.

Joe Rogan 54:14 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 54:15 Because your, your brain is on autopilot.

Joe Rogan 54:17 Right.

Zachary Levi 54:17 You're driving a stretch you've driven all the time, you're totally on autopilot, you're good, and you're j- and now you're just wandering in thought, and you do, you, you tap into a lot of cool things that way, I think. And that's meditation in general, you know? Prayer and meditation, hugely important.

Joe Rogan 54:31 Yeah, even, that's the same as going for a walk, right? When people go for... What's one of the things that writers love to do? They, they like to, uh, write and then go for a walk and bring, like, a tape recorder, and just like-

Zachary Levi 54:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:41 ... to just record their ideas-

Zachary Levi 54:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:42 ... as they're walking, because sometimes just the process of walking around after writing-

Zachary Levi 54:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:47 ... is like a meditative state.

Zachary Levi 54:49 Yeah.Or also, you ever find yourself pacing, like, on a phone call or something like that?

Joe Rogan 54:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Zachary Levi 54:53 Yeah. I'd s- I think that's a, there's a similar thing in that too. It's like you're, you're focusing so much on whatever business is going on in that phone call-

Joe Rogan 55:00 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 55:00 ... and you're just putting yourself in this kind of, like, autopilot of a move.

Joe Rogan 55:04 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 55:04 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:05 Well, I feel like I talk better when I do that, you know, like, uh, like, I get a little bit of circulation.

Zachary Levi 55:10 Sure.

Joe Rogan 55:10 Like, if I'm just, like, if it's a very important conversation, I'm not gonna sit down. If I'm having-

Zachary Levi 55:14 Yeah, yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 55:15 You know what I mean? I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna-

Zachary Levi 55:16 100%. Yeah. You're gonna walk around. You're pacing around. But, and again-

Joe Rogan 55:18 I think my brain is better.

Zachary Levi 55:18 ... people have been doing that shit forever.

Joe Rogan 55:19 Forever.

Zachary Levi 55:20 I mean, pacing is like an-

Joe Rogan 55:21 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 55:21 ... absolute thinkers kind of a thing. You're, you're trying to s- solve some shit.

Joe Rogan 55:25 Yeah, that's what's so fascinating about the human animal, right? It's like we are so many different things. We're, we're biological, but we're also intellectual. We're creative and loving and silly and mean. And then we're all, like, living in this physical shell, and how well you take care of your physical shell depends on how the physical shell feels and treats you.

Zachary Levi 55:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 If you abuse it and treat it like shit, then you have this fucking achy, jacked up-

Zachary Levi 55:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:52 ... sloppy thing that doesn't have any air in it.

Zachary Levi 55:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:56 You know, and you're just tired all the time.

Zachary Levi 55:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:58 Or if you take care of it, you feel good, and you can make other people feel good too.

Zachary Levi 56:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:02 And it's like we are, we're these weird piles of ideas and, and life experiences, and we're all just trying to sort through things in real time. And then there's people that, like, take advantage of that, and they'll try to be mean to you if you don't think the way they think. And they'll, you know, they'll-

Zachary Levi 56:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:19 ... use excuses-

Zachary Levi 56:20 Totally.

Joe Rogan 56:21 ... as to why they're being a fucking asshole.

Zachary Levi 56:22 Totally. Choosing fear.

Joe Rogan 56:23 Yeah, but it's just being mean, but you're being mean on the side of good. (laughs) You know?

Zachary Levi 56:28 But a- but again, that's still... Yes, 100%, but that's still them ultimately, they're fearing the other side of the conversation because their ego is kicking on. Their fight or flight is literally kicking in. They're like, "I don't know enough about whatever this is that I'm talking about to be able to even allow for that conversation to come in because it could-"

Joe Rogan 56:46 Right.

Zachary Levi 56:46 "... totally destroy the scaffolding of what my identity is pinned on." And-

Joe Rogan 56:50 There's a lot of that, yeah.

Zachary Levi 56:51 It's, there's so much of that. And so we have to be empathetic to people in that regard and be like, "Okay, I understand why you're being so cross. I understand why you're pushing back so much." But ultimately, if we can point out to everybody, "Hey, work on yourself."

Joe Rogan 57:02 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 57:03 "Love yourself so that you feel like you can invest in yourself. And as you love yourself better, you'll recognize how to love other people outside of you better." Because in order to love yourself, you gotta give yourself a fucking break, man.

Joe Rogan 57:13 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 57:13 You gotta give yourself a break, and we don't give anybody a break. Nobody's giving anybody a fucking break anymore. Like, guys, we're human beings. We're fucked up. We're all a little broken and messed up. And if we can't just acknowledge that and see each other... You know, it doesn't mean, again, it doesn't mean that people aren't assholes on the other side and doing things that need to have boundaries. Loving, loving is not just liking times 1,000. Like, to, to like something is to like something, but to love something means just recognizing the miracle in the soul across from you, recognizing that they exist and they are worthy of existing. They are worthy of being in this space that they're inhabiting, even if they're a fucking asshole. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:51 Hmm.

Zachary Levi 57:52 And then, and then having boundaries with those people so that, you know, it's, it's not a matter of just giving... People say like, "How do I forgive this person and make sure that they don't do this to me again?" I go, "No, no. Forgiveness isn't just being like, and we're cool." That's not forgiveness. Forgiveness is recognizing that they didn't do anything to you personally. They did something out of, they're acting out of their shitty trauma, the w- their programming more often than not, you know?

Joe Rogan 58:13 I just also think we have to, like, kind of reward an ethic of trying to be nice. And-

Zachary Levi 58:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:19 ... sort of, uh, do our best to not reward people that are just constantly being shitty.

Zachary Levi 58:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:26 'Cause there's just so many people that are getting attention from being shitty, constantly being shitty. They're just putting this thing out there. It's like, all right, if that's really what you wanna do, you're, you're putting out this negative energy, like, constantly.

Zachary Levi 58:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:38 And you're complaining about things, and you're finding reasons, reasons to be mean about people, to shit on people.

Zachary Levi 58:44 Because they're terrified.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Yeah. Well, they're broken, right? There's, they're-

Zachary Levi 58:47 Yeah, but they're, deep down, they're very afraid of whatever it is on the other side of that conversation.

Joe Rogan 58:52 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 58:52 They're just terrified. And by the way, this is on both sides of the aisle.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Oh, yeah.

Zachary Levi 58:55 This side, you know, m- m- terrified of these ideas, this side terrified of these, not being able to just come together. Man, I wish we had, (laughs) I wish we had some, like, Jedi council of just the smartest, deepest, most enlightened, deeply empathetic, uh, genius people, uh, s- symposium, whatever, 20 people, and just allow them to get together and all just agree on, like, "Can we just, can we just decide some of these things that we're all fighting about? Can we just come together and make some-"

Joe Rogan 59:27 Do you-

Zachary Levi 59:27 "... really neutral ground so we can do this?"

Joe Rogan 59:29 Do you know of anyone that you would trust to be on that council? Like, how many people do you think would have to be on that?

Zachary Levi 59:36 I don't know. I mean, again-

Joe Rogan 59:37 Let's say nine people. Should we say nine people?

Zachary Levi 59:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:40 Let's say nine.

Zachary Levi 59:40 Nine people.

Joe Rogan 59:41 Do you know of nine people whose opinion you would value so highly that they wouldn't say something so e- egregiously stupid that you'd go, "What the fuck, man." You know?

Zachary Levi 59:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:55 Not like, it's like, see, these people can't be like politicians. They have to be chosen.

Zachary Levi 59:59 No, no, no, no, no, no. Politic-

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 They, they can't be picked.

Zachary Levi 1:00:01 I mean, it's, a politician... Ah, man, it just breaks my heart. It breaks my heart how fucked up our entire political system is. It's so sad. It is so fucking sad.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 It's so weird.

Zachary Levi 1:00:09 It's so weird, and it's so-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 They're so-

Zachary Levi 1:00:12 ... bought. Everyone's bought, all, the lobbyists-

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 1:00:14 ... bought everything and everyone. And we're all just w- looking around being like, "How is this all not working?"

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 1:00:19 It's because the fucking money, guys. Just follow the goddamn money.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Yeah.

Zachary Levi 1:00:22 Um, I don't know, man. I mean, like, uh, the Dalai Lama, you know, like, legitimately, like, uh, I- I don't know that he's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 You know he got canceled?

Zachary Levi 1:00:31 The Dalai Lama got canceled?

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Dalai Lama got canceled. He was saying a bunch of-

Zachary Levi 1:00:35 How?

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 ... sexist shit.

Zachary Levi 1:00:36 What?

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 Yeah. He was, uh... (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:00:39 Well, here's the thing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 It was a while back. Let me remember what he was saying. Oh, he was talking about how (laughs) he doesn't, uh, he, he doesn't want to get married. And he sees his friends that are all married, and, uh, a lot of times they get divorced and they lose all their money. And then this lady goes, uh, "Well, sometimes the woman has her own money. She makes her own money." He goes, "Yeah, good one."

Zachary Levi 1:01:01 ... oh, what?

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:01:02 The Dalai Lama said that?

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Yes, yes. He- (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:01:06 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 Dalai Lama was also asked-

Zachary Levi 1:01:07 The Dalai Lama's got jokes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 ... about some comments he made in 2015, that if a female Dalai Lama were to replace him, that she must be very attractive, otherwise not so much use. (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:01:18 Wow, Dalai.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 He laughed.

Zachary Levi 1:01:19 Hello, Dalai.

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 He laughed when asked if he understood why the response had offended women, saying, "If female Dalai Lama comes, then she should be more attractive. If female Dalai Lama, before putting on a face, I think," like a ugly face, "people, uh, uh, prefer not to see her, that face." (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:01:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 The Dalai Lama also said that he had not given up hope of returning to Tibet. But there was another thing where, um, he was doing, um, an interview about that, and that's where he said, uh, the woman said, "Well, sometimes women have their own money." And he's like, "Oh, yeah. Good one."

Zachary Levi 1:01:56 Yeah. Well, so here, here's the thing. Actually that's, that, that brings me to, uh, another point, which is this, this council, these nine people? Guess what?

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 What?

Zachary Levi 1:02:06 They're all still gonna have shit about them that somebody's not gonna like, right? 'Cause we're all humans. At the end of the day, we've all got some weird baggage. We've all got something ... But that's why you have such an array and diversity-

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Right.

Zachary Levi 1:02:16 ... of those people, so that compensates for all of that stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 So, we give the Dalai Lama a pass?

Zachary Levi 1:02:21 Well, I- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 I get it. Okay.

Zachary Levi 1:02:23 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 So, Dalai Lama. So, we have nine people. We got Dalai Lama.

Zachary Levi 1:02:26 Yeah. Um ...

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Ted Nugent, right?

Zachary Levi 1:02:29 T- no. Oh, you know what? Honestly, man, I ...

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 (laughs) .

Zachary Levi 1:02:32 (coughs) I think one of the deepest thinkers that I've ever heard break down, like, human behavior, uh, and, I don't know, just an understanding of all that stuff, and, and I think good, good wisdom along with it, is Jordan Peterson. I think that he would be a person that I would trus- ... I think the guy has a lot of integrity. And then, so I would, I would ... That would be somebody too. But I also know Jordan has his own things that people have issues with. Like, I get it. Nobody's perfect. We're not gonna find-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Yeah, he's, he's kicked off of Twitter right now, 'cause he said something about Ellen Page.

Zachary Levi 1:03:08 (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 Uh, Elliot Page.

Zachary Levi 1:03:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 He called her Ellen Page. Like, I think, I think that was the number one thing.

Zachary Levi 1:03:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:15 The, the deadnaming.

Zachary Levi 1:03:16 Yeah. And it's sad, man. 'Cause again-

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 It's just, like-

Zachary Levi 1:03:18 ... there's a lot of fear and, and pain on, and all that, all the sides of all that, too. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 My friend, Brian Simpson, had, had a very good thing to say about that. He was like, "I, I come to you for, like, heavy duty intellectual shit." He goes, "Not for this."

Zachary Levi 1:03:33 (laughs) Yeah. True.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Yeah. It's like-

Zachary Levi 1:03:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 ... this is not a thing to be-

Zachary Levi 1:03:35 Totally, yeah. This is like, yeah, why ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 ... getting offended about.

Zachary Levi 1:03:37 Jordan, don't ... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Don't, you don't need to get into all that. I mean, look, it's his life, it's his Twitter, or was his Twitter, anyway.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 But that thing is like, that transgender thing w- riles people up, man. That, that is one of the ones that riles people up. Like, everybody's in favor of everybody doing whatever they wanna do as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, until it gets to gender, and then people start getting weird. They, they start thinking it's a mistake. They start thinking, "Why are you doing that?" They start thinking all kinds of things. It's like, we, we're so cool with people making all kinds of changes to their body. We're ... Like, no one's protesting fake boobs. No one. It's-

Zachary Levi 1:04:16 I mean, that would just be stupid.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 But it's one of the most preposterous-

Zachary Levi 1:04:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 ... things a human being's ever done. You-

Zachary Levi 1:04:22 I e-

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 ... you open up a person's chest cavity and put bags of chemicals in there because they feel like real tits, and everybody's like, "Yeah, that's what we do." (laughs)

Zachary Levi 1:04:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 It's totally normal.

Zachary Levi 1:04:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 I mean-

Zachary Levi 1:04:33 And all that's in response to what our beauty norms are, ultimately, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:04:36 Well, it's a response to DNA. Your DNA wants you to see a small waist and big hips and big boobs so that you can feed and nourish the baby. That's the idea of big-

Zachary Levi 1:04:46 Yeah. But, but, but, but beauty norms have also shifted a lot over the years, too.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Sure.

Zachary Levi 1:04:50 Like, there was, there was a, a long stretch where, like, the, the thicker, the better. Like, you know, the ladies in paintings and stuff like that. Like, 'cause that w- that meant you were wealthy. That meant you-

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Right.

Zachary Levi 1:04:59 ... you had so much food and wealth, and look at me, you know. Like, that, that was totally a thing, so I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 Right, but they didn't have media. The moment they had-

Zachary Levi 1:05:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 ... the ability to see different ones and figure out which ones they liked, things got pretty standard. There's, like, a certain form that is generally preferred to-

Zachary Levi 1:05:18 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 ... as being m- most attractive, but there's also people that have tastes. Like, some guys who like, you know, this, and some people like that. Like, there's all sorts of different tastes. But when it comes to, like, like, physical attraction, there's, like, a weird shape, and you can manipulate a man's brain by altering your shape with bags of chemicals.

Zachary Levi 1:05:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 It's strange.

Zachary Levi 1:05:40 It's very strange.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 And now they're doing it to their butts. They're doing stuff to their butts to make their butts fake. And it's just, it's a wild time, because it's like whatever that is, is you're playing with the geometry that's in, inside a human's mind.

Zachary Levi 1:05:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 That, 'cause we all know it's fake.

Zachary Levi 1:05:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 That's what's really strange.

Zachary Levi 1:05:58 Well, sometimes you can't tell it's fake.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Boobs?

Zachary Levi 1:06:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 Very rarely.

Zachary Levi 1:06:03 Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 If you get a, a f- real pair of them in 2022, you're like, "Holy shit."

Zachary Levi 1:06:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 It's like finding an arrowhead. Like, "Look at this."

Zachary Levi 1:06:12 Holy Toledo.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 "This is wild."

Zachary Levi 1:06:13 Can