Joe Rogan Experience #1859 - Louis CK & Joe List

Joe List 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays) Hey, fellas.

Narrator 0:14 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 0:15 Hey.

Joe Rogan 0:15 What's going on?

Joe List 0:16 Hey.

Joe Rogan 0:16 So, let me first say, that fucking movie is great.

Joe List 0:19 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:19 It's really good. I really enjoyed it. I fucking laughed hard-

Joe List 0:22 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:22 ... when they, the family in Maine. Holy shit-

Joe List 0:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:24 ... was that great, with Nick Di Paolo-

Joe List 0:26 Nick Di Paolo.

Joe Rogan 0:27 ... Tony V. Oh, my God, it's very funny.

Joe List 0:29 That makes me feel good. Thank you.

Louis C.K. 0:30 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:30 It's really good, it's really good, it's really good.

Joe List 0:33 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:33 You're a good actor, Joe.

Joe List 0:34 Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 0:36 You're really good, man.

Joe List 0:37 I-

Joe Rogan 0:37 You're really good.

Joe List 0:38 Thank you. I have very little training. But I was playing myself. We wrote it, so a lot of real emotions.

Louis C.K. 0:43 It doesn't matter, though, if you play yourself, 'cause you have to play moments, you have to play feelings-

Joe Rogan 0:47 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 0:47 ... you have to listen. And I didn't know if he was gonna be any good. It had to be him, because it was his story. We wrote it together, I directed it, and, uh, but I didn't know if he would have the mechanics right. But he's very natural. I never had to talk to him once during the filming. It was just, you know-

Joe List 1:03 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 1:03 ... he gave me a lot of room to really do better.

Joe List 1:05 I'm acting not terrified right now.

Joe Rogan 1:07 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 1:07 Good. Nice job. But you're not... You look terrified. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12 (laughs) Well, I don't know why you'd be terrified. I just don't understand it.

Joe List 1:15 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:15 You've done, you do a million podcasts.

Joe List 1:16 I-

Joe Rogan 1:17 You, you do it all the time.

Joe List 1:18 I do a lot of podcasts. I've been here... Well, first of all-

Louis C.K. 1:20 Well, there's a lot at stake, because the movie, uh, is out just now on the website. And it's, um, it's on my website for 15 bucks. I just wanted to get it out there.

Joe Rogan 1:28 4th of July.

Louis C.K. 1:29 4th of July.

Joe Rogan 1:30 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 1:30 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:31 It's fucking great. I can't recommend it enough. It's really good.

Louis C.K. 1:33 Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:34 I, I enjoyed the shit out of it.

Louis C.K. 1:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35 I watched it today-

Louis C.K. 1:36 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:36 ... 'cause I wanted to watch it right before I came here.

Louis C.K. 1:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39 I wanted to be really fresh.

Louis C.K. 1:40 Great.

Joe Rogan 1:40 It was excellent. I really enjoyed it.

Louis C.K. 1:41 Well, it, I never made a movie like that before. Most of my movies are a little w- weirder, a little more challenging. I like to keep an audience off balance. But this was just a story, this is such, such a basic story. Um, and, uh, we, it was very, just, it's a very independent, just kinda like normal movie. It's not about a big subject, it's, it's about people, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:01 It's really good though.

Joe List 2:02 Thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 2:02 It's really good. I, I, I've, if I went to see that in the movies and I didn't know any of you, I'd really enjoy it. The, th- w- there's, and, and I had a question about filmmaking itself.

Louis C.K. 2:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11 There's moments where, like, you the therapist are talking to him, where it's a head-on shot, but the camera's kinda, like, slightly moving a little-

Louis C.K. 2:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe List 2:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:19 ... which I thought was very interesting.

Louis C.K. 2:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Like, do you, what is the reason to do... Is it to keep you occupied? Is it to create like a sense that you're actually there? Because when you're seeing a person-

Louis C.K. 2:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:30 ... you're kinda moving and kinda static? Like...

Louis C.K. 2:32 Well, it depends. Like, sometimes, well, we used in this movie, we used what are called anamorphic lenses, and they make more of a dollar bill shape than like a television. It's, like, wider. So, uh, w- the movie's about a guy who has severe anxiety, and so anxiety is about having too much peripheral sense, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:49 Mm.

Louis C.K. 2:50 And so sometimes we would rock the, the, the, the, the, the screen, the ma- camera just a little bit, just a tiny bit-

Joe Rogan 2:56 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 2:56 ... to feel as disbalanced, like if you're just sitting in a chair, you feel like you're gonna throw up a little bit.

Joe Rogan 3:02 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 3:02 There's, uh... And there's, we did other effects, like sometimes we made the, the light go green, which is kinda like a green nausea feeling. Nausea and anxiety are very connected.

Joe Rogan 3:11 Mm.

Louis C.K. 3:11 So we did that with him to make him look like he was as uncomfortable as h- as he really can be.

Joe Rogan 3:17 T- how much do you enjoy that process versus the process of creating standup?

Louis C.K. 3:21 I love it so much.

Joe Rogan 3:22 Yeah?

Louis C.K. 3:23 I just love it so much. It drives me crazy how much I love it. I love film, I love lenses, I love photography. I love the, all the tech stuff. I love going, drilling way down with the DP about what's the equipment we're gonna use and why. Uh, I had a good DP on this one who didn't give a shit. He just, he was just like, "Yeah, you could, I guess. Who cares?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:43 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 3:43 Like he was just a real... He came up as a, like, camera loader. He came up, he's not like a, you know, film school guy who wrote a thesis. He's a guy who worked in the camera department, and now he runs it, so. But I like it, I like it. And I like, um, equipment. I like, um, the process. You know? And the problem is, it's all day problem-solving.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 4:01 It occupies your whole spirit when you're directing, 'cause you're like, "How are we gonna get this day done? They're kicking us out at 8:00. The light's going." Stuff like that. It's like being on a boat, you know.

Joe Rogan 4:11 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 4:11 'Cause nothing's in your control. You can just try to maneuver. You've got an actor who's just not doing it. You have an actor who didn't show up. There's all kinds of stuff that happens. And if you're clever and you stay s- on a swivel, you get through the day and you go, "Fuck, I can't believe we got all that." And there was good shit on film. That's...

Joe Rogan 4:28 How much of a process is it? Like, how long is it from the time where you started writing this-

Louis C.K. 4:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:33 ... till, like, pitch it, write it, and then get it done?

Joe List 4:37 I know the exact dates if you want them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:38 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 4:38 Yeah, give, give it.

Joe List 4:40 First phone call was February 28th. I mean, this is, like, not normal. February 28th.

Louis C.K. 4:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe List 4:45 We chatted on a Sunday for about three hours unexpectedly. And we wrapped, I believe, on September 9th, 8th.

Louis C.K. 4:52 Yeah, it was very quick.

Joe List 4:52 That's from conception to we're wrapped-

Louis C.K. 4:55 From ph-

Joe List 4:55 ... from the movie shot.

Louis C.K. 4:56 ... from "Let's make a movie about something" in Fe- late February to out, ready at the end of September.

Joe Rogan 5:03 Wow.

Joe List 5:04 It was crazy.

Louis C.K. 5:04 Like, it was unheard of. We wrote it kinda qu- you know, the, first of all, the pandemic was sort of just starting to wane but it was still in effect. And, um, so there was a lot of, we were all so eager to do fucking something.

Joe Rogan 5:17 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 5:17 You know? And, uh, there, we were used to this empty space in time. So he came up to my place upstate couple of times. We just wrote on the blackboard. And also it depends on the movie. We, I knew what this movie should be from the very beginning. Like, we just felt what this movie was about, what the engines were that were gonna run. We knew Di Paolo was gonna play this guy, we knew Tony V was gonna play all these guys. So we, the voices were so clear, and, that it was an easy... We just, sometimes you, to feel like you're taking dictation when you write a movie. Like, it's just telling itself to you. So the writing was a lot quicker than usual. And because it's just me financing it, there was nobody to send the script to, wait for comments. We just-

Joe Rogan 5:55 Mm.

Louis C.K. 5:56 ... we just finished w- and we wrote, "That's it." And then we went back over it and reworked it a few times.... so we're not wasting any money when you shoot. Try to cut it down, 'cause you're probably gonna cut anyway. Uh, and then start hiring folks. Then it's just, just simple, you know. I gave it to my assistant, Lia, who's also my producer. She's the executive producer of the movie. She does everything for me. So she started getting into, you know, (clears throat) the heads of departments. We started hiring people, got a casting agent, she started casting. Just start working, working, working. Um, and then everything else get dic- gets dictated by, like, where (clears throat) , where are you shooting? Are you shooting in a house? When is it available? That house is available for these weeks, so that's our target, and try to get everything together by then. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:36 And the people that you got are fantastic too. Like, the, the woman who plays your mother is amazing.

Joe List 6:41 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 6:42 Paula Plum. Paula Plum.

Joe List 6:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:43 She's just-

Louis C.K. 6:44 They're all Boston actors. Everybody in the movie is, like, local either comedians from Boston, or including me and Joe, or, uh, actors. She's a, like, a storied Boston actor. She's, like, in every great play that takes place in Boston.

Joe List 6:58 Oh.

Louis C.K. 6:58 And sh- and actually her and the dad, Bob, uh, Walsh-

Joe List 7:01 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 7:01 ... who played the dad, they have played man and wife in many plays, like in a major pla- not in Broadway, but in Boston, which, in Boston, that's big, you know. And that, and she was fucking great. That was the hardest thing. F- how are we gonna find this woman?

Joe Rogan 7:14 She was so good.

Joe List 7:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 Like, the, just the, even the way she hugs you, it's, like, exactly like that lady would hug you. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 7:20 Yeah, who can't. She can't. She can't.

Joe List 7:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:24 There was so many good lines in the movie too, like when talking about the ex-girlfriend. "Oh, the one with the mouth and the tits." (laughs)

Louis C.K. 7:30 Yeah, the one with the mouth and the tits.

Joe List 7:32 That's a- that's a true story, by the way, that I tell.

Louis C.K. 7:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe List 7:34 I have a ex-girlfriend that when we first started dating, we'd been together for, like, a few weeks and it was, like, popping off. We love each other, oh my God. And she left her email open and I searched my name, thinking I would find all these great things she's saying about me behind my back.

Joe Rogan 7:48 (laughs) So stupid.

Joe List 7:49 It was really bad. And there was, like, a chat, like a Gchat, Gmail chat, between her and her best friend, and she literally was like, "I just met this guy. I think I'm in love with him. He's the funniest guy I've ever met. I'm not attracted to him, but I'm gonna give it a shot." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:03 Oh, that's hard.

Joe List 8:04 And I just read it, and then, like, you know, she comes home a few hours later (laughs) and is like, "Hey," and I'm like, "Hey."

Louis C.K. 8:09 That's hard.

Joe List 8:10 And it's brutal. It still lingers, by the way.

Joe Rogan 8:12 The pain from that?

Joe List 8:13 Was that the end of it?

Louis C.K. 8:13 Becau- no, 'c-'cause I couldn't... First of all, I was, like, in love with her, and it wasn't a confidence boost. I was like, "I can't (laughs) go be single now knowing I'm ugly."

Joe Rogan 8:23 (laughs)

Joe List 8:23 But it's like, I th- the person who loved me the most in the world behind my back described me as unattractive.

Joe Rogan 8:30 Ugh.

Louis C.K. 8:30 How horrible.

Joe List 8:31 Yeah, it's, it's horrible. It's why I'm behind this mic as much as I can be right now.

Joe Rogan 8:34 (laughs)

Joe List 8:35 I'm hideous. It's horrible.

Louis C.K. 8:36 We had the- that's why we had an easy time writing the movie too because he has these stories. So he would just tell me stuff like that. And I, I know from experience what's gonna work in a script. I've written them before, I've directed them before. So, he would just tell me that and I'm like, "It's going in."

Joe Rogan 8:50 Ugh.

Louis C.K. 8:50 "Like, that's gotta be in here."

Joe List 8:52 We had to change the names, of course.

Louis C.K. 8:53 We had to change the names-

Joe List 8:54 Of course.

Louis C.K. 8:55 ... but, but, uh, but yeah, and Paul, uh, and his wife, uh, is played by his own real wife, Sarah. I mean, in the movie, she's called Beth.

Joe List 9:03 Yes.

Louis C.K. 9:04 But Sarah Talmaker is a very funny comedian.

Joe Rogan 9:06 And she's great in it too.

Joe List 9:07 Oh, thanks.

Louis C.K. 9:08 Yeah, she's very natural. Everybody was very natural.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 9:11 And Paula was the one who was the, the mom was the tour de force acting job, and also the dad.

Joe List 9:16 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 9:16 Because the thing that's hardest in the world to get people to act is that they can't do things emotionally. Like, actors can ex- you know, have big tantrums and they can cry. That's actually not hard as an actor. What's hard is what she's playing, which is unaware of herself.

Joe Rogan 9:32 Mm.

Louis C.K. 9:33 Unable emotionally and unaware, and in a, a narcissistic bubble. That's so hard to get someone to play who's actually a sensitive person. Acting is supposed to be about connecting, and she's playing a woman who can't connect for her reason. And then the dad, the same thing. He can't connect 'cause he just is disabled by his generation, and by anxiety we find out really. He has the same problem that his son does.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Mm.

Louis C.K. 9:57 But in his generation, you don't fucking say anxiety.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Right.

Louis C.K. 10:00 You're just quiet. You drink and you're quiet.

Joe List 10:03 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 10:03 You know. So that was where the two hardest, and we got these great fucking actors to play it, play those parts.

Joe Rogan 10:09 And so you're releasing it only on your website?

Louis C.K. 10:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:12 You're not gonna put it out anywhere else afterwards?

Louis C.K. 10:14 I mean, we'll see, you know. But right now, the be- the best mouth to drink in the interest is the website.

Joe Rogan 10:20 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 10:20 It just goes right, comes right to us.

Joe List 10:22 We did a big theatrical run also though.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 10:23 Yeah, it was in the theaters for-

Joe List 10:24 Did very well.

Louis C.K. 10:25 ... yeah, for a month, and it was killing.

Joe Rogan 10:27 Really?

Louis C.K. 10:28 Yeah, it was, um, like AMC Theaters, and Regal, and a few theaters. What they do if they don't give you a full run, they just go, "You can have every city for one night."

Joe Rogan 10:36 Mm.

Louis C.K. 10:36 Like, at seven o'clock on a Wednesday, we were in 70 screens across the country.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Wow.

Louis C.K. 10:42 And they all sold out and doubled. We were-

Joe Rogan 10:44 Wow.

Louis C.K. 10:44 In, in a lot of cities, we were, like, in three theaters, like w- like, uh, like Thor or something.

Joe Rogan 10:48 Holy shit.

Louis C.K. 10:49 Yeah, and then at the Laemmle in LA get h- held over, like, three, four weeks I think.

Joe List 10:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 10:54 It just kept getting held over.

Joe Rogan 10:56 Wow.

Louis C.K. 10:56 It was very... In New York, we had a premiere at the Beacon Theater, and we packed it, and everybody watched the movie in the Beacon Theater, and it was-

Joe Rogan 11:03 That's fucking amazing.

Louis C.K. 11:04 ... huge. It was fun.

Joe List 11:04 That's amazing. Yeah, it was huge laughs. I don't wanna derail the conversation. My ash just fell off on the rug and I feel terrible.

Louis C.K. 11:08 Doesn't matter.

Joe List 11:08 Okay, great.

Joe Rogan 11:09 No one gives a shit here.

Joe List 11:10 That was helpful.

Louis C.K. 11:10 Is, there is an ashtray. But, uh-

Joe List 11:12 Well, it fell, you know. Sometimes get-

Louis C.K. 11:13 Yeah.

Joe List 11:13 I didn't ash on the rug.

Louis C.K. 11:14 Yeah, you get ash on the table, it doesn't matter.

Joe List 11:15 All right.

Louis C.K. 11:16 Actually, it fell. It was a mistake.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Doesn't matter.

Joe List 11:18 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 11:18 So if people...

Joe Rogan 11:20 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 11:20 People loved watching the movie together, I think, in crowds.

Joe Rogan 11:24 Yes.

Louis C.K. 11:24 And laughing. It was really fun being in a-

Joe Rogan 11:26 Yes.

Louis C.K. 11:26 ... cinema where people are laughing so you can't hear the dialogue. That's like the best feeling in the world.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Yes. Oh, man.

Joe List 11:30 Yeah, it was-

Joe Rogan 11:31 That's great.

Joe List 11:31 ... it was pretty magical. And there was laughs where we didn't expect laughs.

Louis C.K. 11:34 Yep.

Joe List 11:35 It's, it, for me, it's, like, about my life s- uh, basically. My mother's much nicer. I don't know where the camera is. My mother's wonderful. She's not a sociopath.

Joe Rogan 11:43 (laughs)

Joe List 11:43 But-... you know, to you, everything about you is dramatic. And then there's moments that happen in the movie where there'd be like this huge house room laugh, and I was like, "I didn't even think that was funny." Like when the da- uh, I don't wanna give too much away, but when I try to talk to my parents and my dad just responds by being like, "Jesus," and takes a sip of beer. I thought it was like a sad moment and the place like-

Louis C.K. 12:02 Big laugh.

Joe List 12:02 ... explodes with laughter.

Louis C.K. 12:03 (laughs) And different in each city. Like, we did big screenings, premieres w- with, with us there and cast members in, uh, Beacon and then in Boston at the Schubert and then at The Vic in Chicago. So in Bo- in New York, he tells his family off, the moment where he just really lets them have it and says "fuck you" to his mom.

Joe List 12:21 Don't give away too much.

Louis C.K. 12:22 Too bad.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Well, listen it's-

Louis C.K. 12:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:24 ... doesn't matter.

Louis C.K. 12:24 The New York crowd went berserk.

Joe Rogan 12:27 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:27 They cheered like, "Yeah!" 'Cause the, we're all in New York-

Joe Rogan 12:30 Right.

Louis C.K. 12:30 We all came from some fucking town and it was a fantasy for them, and everybody was like, "That's right! That's right!" Then we take the movie to Boston where everybody's from and that moment the crowd was like, "Oh, no."

Joe Rogan 12:44 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:44 "No." When he said, "Fuck you, Mom," it was (gasps) "Oh, no, you don't say that."

Joe Rogan 12:50 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:50 And so totally split.

Joe List 12:52 (sighs)

Louis C.K. 12:52 But then later when his uncle has the, they have this fight where it kind, it brings, in both se- cases brought the audience back together, because he kinda levels the thing out.

Joe List 12:53 Mm.

Louis C.K. 12:53 And so I, to me that's a successful movie, one that it gets completely different reactions from different people, but they all like it and they're, you know, they're all compelled.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Is this the first time you've ever released something just directly? I know you did your animated show, you d- you released that directly on your website too, right?

Louis C.K. 12:53 Animated- oh yeah, yeah, which one? Animated?

Joe Rogan 12:53 Horace and Pete.

Louis C.K. 12:53 Oh yeah, Horace and Pete, that was the, the, the stage show. Yeah, this is the first thing I've made that, besides standup specials, um, I have two new ones that just, that are, that are out now, but that's the first one that I, the very, yeah. It's the first movie I've ever put out on my site directly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 And you've just been doing mostly your standup specials that way, right?

Louis C.K. 12:53 Standup specials. Also my series Louie on FX, that's on my website too exclusively. I got, I licensed it from FX and from Disney who actually owns it, and so you can buy it on my website. I had, I li- I got them to give it to me exclusive so I wouldn't have to compete with-

Joe Rogan 12:53 Ah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 So if, you can buy the whole series, all five seasons for five, for $30 for the whole five seasons.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Do you think you'll ever get to a point where your website is like a subscription thing? Like a fucking Hulu type deal where you could just subscribe to your website and get all the things?

Louis C.K. 12:53 I think that's tough because it's not that much content. I mean, I have, there's packages, like you can buy all my s- I have seven standup hour specials on there now, and you can buy them all for 25 bucks. So that unlocks all of them. You can stream them.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Hmm.

Louis C.K. 12:53 You can download them and own them and whatever. Uh, that's just the way it's always been between me and my fans on the website. Uh, I, I put, I put stuff out once in a while. It's at a price that's, that just get, just enough for me to get some profit, uh, and get the money back, you know. So it lets me operate independently and it's outside of the kind of algorithmic... It's not... The thing is that those platforms depend on algorithmic plug-in and it's a very different model.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 They also have billions of dollars to create content and to lice- license content. Um, I don't know where it's going. I'm grow- it's starting to be a lot of m- a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff on the website.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah, that's what I'm getting to. It's like, uh, I've, I've thought about that too because a lot of people are starting to do that now. Like Schultz released his po- his, uh, new special completely on his website.

Louis C.K. 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 And, uh, a lot of people are doing those kind of things now because you, you do encounter these problems with streaming services and-

Louis C.K. 12:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:53 ... censorship and just weird-

Louis C.K. 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 ... just having their input on content. It's not fun.

Louis C.K. 12:53 No, of course not. And, uh, they have, 'cause when you're on a streaming service or on any platform, they have their own problems.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 And because they're all owned by larger and larger corporations, um, they have to, they can't do anything that wiggles too much. So they have just too many concerns and that's the way I look at it. It's not like oppression. It's just like they're too, they're too-

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 ... mixed in with other shit to be my boss 'cause I wanna be able to fuck around and have fun.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 12:53 So, you know, and so for me, I mean, I've been doing this since like 2010 when I put my first special onto my website, um, and I like it. I like the way it, the feeling of it. Everybody that's bought a ticket to one of my shows or has bought one of my shows is on my email list.

Joe List 12:53 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 12:53 So they get told. Um, it's different now because social media's, and the algorithm is a kind of a giant suck. It's like-

Joe List 12:53 Don't give away too much.

Louis C.K. 12:53 Too bad.

Joe Rogan 12:53 But listen it's-

Louis C.K. 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 ... doesn't matter.

Louis C.K. 12:53 The New York crowd went berserk.

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:53 They cheered like, "Yeah!" 'Cause the, we're all in New York-

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs) Right.

Louis C.K. 12:53 ... we all came from some fucking town and it was a fantasy for them and everybody's like, "That's right! That's right!" Then we take the movie to Boston where everybody's from and that moment, the crowd was like, "Oh, no."

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs)

Joe List 12:53 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:53 "No." When he said, "Fuck you, Mom," it was (gasps) "Oh, no, you don't say that."

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 12:53 And so totally split. But then later when his uncle has the, they have this fight where that kind, it brings, in both se- cases brought the audience back together because he kind of levels the thing out.

Joe Rogan 13:04 Mm.

Louis C.K. 13:04 And so I, to me that's a successful movie, one that it gets completely different reactions from different people, but they all like it and they're, you know, they're all compelled.

Joe Rogan 13:12 Is this the first time you've ever released something just directly? I know you did your animated show. You did, you released that directly on your website too, right?

Louis C.K. 13:19 Animated- oh yeah, yeah, which one? Animated?

Joe Rogan 13:21 Horace and Pete.

Louis C.K. 13:22 Oh yeah, Horace and Pete. That was, uh, the, the, the stage show. Yeah, this is the first thing I've made that, besides standup specials. Um, I have two new ones that just, that are, that are out now. But that's the first one that I, the very, yeah. It's the first movie I've ever put out on my site directly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:38 And you've just been doing mostly your standup specials that way, right?

Louis C.K. 13:40 Standup specials. Also my series Louie on FX, that's on my website too exclusively. I got, I licensed it from FX and from Disney who actually owns it and so you can buy it on my website. I had, I li- I got them to give it to me exclusive so I wouldn't have to compete with-

Joe Rogan 13:55 Ah.

Louis C.K. 13:55 So if, you can buy the whole series, all five seasons for five, for $30 for the whole five seasons.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Do you think you'll ever get to a point where your website is like a subscription thing? Like a fucking Hulu type deal where you could just subscribe to your website and get all the things?

Louis C.K. 14:10 I think that's tough because it's not that much content. I mean, I have, there's packages. Like you can buy all my s- I have seven standup hour specials on there now and you can buy them all for 25 bucks. So that unlocks all of them. You can stream them.

Joe Rogan 14:22 Hmm.

Louis C.K. 14:22 You can download them and own them and whatever. Uh, that's just the way it's always been between me and my fans on the website. Uh, I w- I put, I put stuff out once in a while, it's at a price that's, that just get, just enough for me to get some profit, uh, and get the money back, you know. So it lets me operate independently and it's outside of the kind of algorithmic... It's not... The thing is that those platforms depend on algorithmic plug-in and it's a very different model.

Joe Rogan 14:49 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 14:50 They also have billions of dollars to create content and to lice- license content. Um, I don't know where it's going. I'm grow- it's, it's starting to be a lot of m- a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff on the website.

Joe Rogan 15:00 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 15:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Yeah, that's what I'm getting to. It's like, uh, I've, I thought about that too because a lot of people are starting to do that now. Like Schultz released his po- his, uh, new special completely on his website.

Louis C.K. 15:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:11 And, uh, a lot of people are doing those kind of things now because you, you do encounter these problems with streaming services and-

Louis C.K. 15:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:19 ... censorship and just weird-

Louis C.K. 15:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:22 ... just having their input on content. It's not fun.

Louis C.K. 15:25 No, of course not. And, uh, they have, 'cause when you're on a streaming service or on any platform, they have their own problems.

Joe Rogan 15:31 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 15:31 And because they're all owned by larger and larger corporations, um, they have to, they can't do anything that wiggles too much. So they have just too many concerns. And that's the way I look at it. It's not like oppression. It's just like they're too, they're too-

Joe Rogan 15:44 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 15:44 ... mixed in with other shit to be my boss 'cause I want to be able to fuck around and have fun.

Joe Rogan 15:49 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 15:50 So, you know. And so for me, I mean, I've been doing this since like 2010 when I put my first special onto my website, um, and I like it. I like the way it, the feeling of it. Everybody that's bought a ticket to one of my shows or has bought one of my shows is on my email list.

Joe List 16:03 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 16:03 So they get told. Um, it's different now because social media's, and the algorithm is a kind of a giant suck. It's like-

Joe Rogan 16:12 (laughs)

Joe List 16:12 It does suck.

Louis C.K. 16:12 It does, well, it's like everything is directed to you. You're told what's coming next by the algorithm. It's tailored to each person and it's hard. People have less of an impulse to look around and to find their own shit, you know?

Joe Rogan 16:27 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 16:27 Nobody, nobody picks up a flyer anymore. What is this s- strange thing? You know, going to midnight movies. The kind of way that people used to find things outside of the corporate sort of old algorithm of advertising, now they can just kind of just keeps coming to your phone so you know what's coming. So I think though that people are starting to want to make more of an effort to find their own shit, to find something that's not, you know?

Joe Rogan 16:52 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 16:52 That's not in that thing. So I, that's why I like to keep my website the same and the same model and the same way I've always done it 'cause we keep getting more people that, you know. And that's the feeling we got when the movie was in the theater. It's not like the other shit that's out right now. It's not a Marvel movie and it's not about a Black girl with one leg who persevered and it's not-

Joe Rogan 17:12 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 17:13 You know.

Joe List 17:13 It's about a white guy with two legs that perseveres.

Louis C.K. 17:15 Yeah, yeah, exactly, who didn't persevere that well, but who did, did his best.

Joe List 17:19 Well, see the film for God's sakes.

Louis C.K. 17:21 Yeah, that's right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:22 That's right. I'm sure.

Joe List 17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:23 They'll s- we're gonna get people to see the film.

Joe List 17:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:25 The, like having a special like the, the one that won the Grammy and knowing-

Louis C.K. 17:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:29 ... that you released it just entirely on your website too-

Louis C.K. 17:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:32 ... has got to be nice too. 'Cause you're-

Joe List 17:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:34 You've done it completely outside of any other system. You've done it completely independently.

Louis C.K. 17:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:38 Released it independently and it still got recognized.

Louis C.K. 17:41 Yes. It's kind of cool to have a Grammy where it, where it should say like MCA Records, it says lewissck.com. It's, it's just, you know, I have a, I have two Emmys that have that on there too 'cause I, I got Emmys for stuff that I did on my website.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Wow.

Louis C.K. 17:54 So my website has won as many Emmys as a lot of networks have, you know, on a given year.

Joe Rogan 17:58 That's amazing. That's amazing.

Louis C.K. 17:59 Um, and that does, that does feel good. It's fun to have your own shop and-

Joe Rogan 18:03 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 18:03 And again, you're not responsible to anyone else which isn't just about being a tyrant and wanting everything to go your way.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 18:10 But you don't have other people's worries-Like, when I did Horace and Pete, the, the, uh, experiment was, I wanna make a, a real TV series with huge names. I mean, Steve Buscemi, Alan Alda, Jessica Lange, uh, Edie Falco. That was the cast. And no one knew it was coming. I didn't promote it, I didn't tell the press about it, I didn't send it out for reviews. I just one day sent an email to my folks saying, "Horace and Pete is available."

Joe Rogan 18:40 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 18:40 That was it. And I wanted to see what'll happen.

Joe Rogan 18:43 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 18:43 I knew it wasn't a good idea, in terms of financially, but I didn't want someone with money to be telling me, "Dude, you can't do that to me. I invested."

Joe Rogan 18:53 Right.

Louis C.K. 18:53 And they would be right. This was my... I paid for it entirely myself. I mean, I took a line of credit. But... and the mo- the, that show made enough on the website to pay that back, and then Hulu licensed it for another s- millions of dollars. So, I was able to write checks, which is my favorite thing. To me, getting checks is fun, but writing... I wrote a check to Steve Buscemi for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and one to Alan Alda, who I grew up watching-

Joe Rogan 19:20 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 19:20 ... and I wrote him a, my company check, I wrote him a big fucking, you know, he could buy a house with that.

Joe Rogan 19:24 Wow.

Louis C.K. 19:24 That feels good.

Joe Rogan 19:25 I can't wait for my check. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 19:26 Yeah, you're not getting any check. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:30 (laughs) It is very cool to be able to do things independently-

Louis C.K. 19:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:33 ... and then not have the input. 'Cause no matter what people like to think, they are, in, in some way at least, you're influenced by-

Louis C.K. 19:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:41 ... the people that make the decisions.

Louis C.K. 19:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:42 By the people that spend the money, by the network itself, by the standards that people have in the network, and the tone of the time.

Louis C.K. 19:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:50 It's very difficult to be independently, artistically creative like that. Well, also it feels like-

Louis C.K. 19:55 It is, right?

Joe Rogan 19:55 A- anyone that has a job feels the need to, um, you know, what do you call that? Uh, make it nece- showin' that they need to have the job.

Louis C.K. 20:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 What's that word? Validate?

Louis C.K. 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 So, if you send it to someone to be like, "Hey, will you read this?" They feel like they have to give you notes.

Louis C.K. 20:09 They're not gonna just say, "Good job."

Joe Rogan 20:11 Yeah, perfect. Just run it.

Louis C.K. 20:12 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 20:12 Make it.

Louis C.K. 20:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:12 They like, oh, we have to say something, or else-

Louis C.K. 20:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:14 ... we don't deserve a job. That's the al- always the biggest problem with network notes, is the person that feels like they have to say something. Yes.

Louis C.K. 20:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:22 There's always these people that feel like they have to have a voice.

Louis C.K. 20:25 That's right.

Joe Rogan 20:26 It's so gross. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 20:27 They're also accountable to, they're also accountable to somebody else.

Joe Rogan 20:29 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 20:29 That's what I started to learn, the more I did n- work for big companies. The guy who's giving you shit, he's getting shit from somebody else.

Joe Rogan 20:36 Yes.

Louis C.K. 20:36 And so, you, there are strategies for taking him under your wing and saying, "What can I s- what can I, how can I help you in your work day so that you can leave me alone?"

Joe Rogan 20:44 It's also gotta be a helpless feeling if you're an executive and you're just counting on these maniacs-

Louis C.K. 20:50 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:50 ... to put together-

Louis C.K. 20:50 And you have no cl- you don't know how to do it.

Joe Rogan 20:52 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 20:52 You don't know how to write, and these fucking guys are assholes. Artists are assholes.

Joe Rogan 20:56 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 20:56 So, they're just like, "Fuck you, I wanna do this." You know? And now that there is a sort of a sense of, there's a sense of, uh, of being careful, the problem is, the audience gets screwed. 'Cause the only things that are fun to watch is something where you go, "I never saw that."

Joe Rogan 21:10 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 21:10 "I never would've thought somebody would've done that." This is what's fun to watch, are astonishing things. And astonishing is dangerous. So, if you're working in an, any of these algorithm, in any of these algorithmic platforms, it's, it's a little... they have to be really careful. I mean, there's exceptions. There's, you know-

Joe Rogan 21:27 (coughs)

Louis C.K. 21:27 ... some of them are doing a good job, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:29 (coughs)

Louis C.K. 21:30 There is cool stuff out there.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Oh, there's a lot of cool stuff out there.

Louis C.K. 21:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:32 It's really amazing how much cool stuff out there, there is-

Louis C.K. 21:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:36 ... when you do think about that process, though.

Louis C.K. 21:37 That's right. Yeah, all of your favorite TV shows and movies were made in, most of them-

Joe Rogan 21:43 (coughs)

Louis C.K. 21:43 ... in a studio system.

Joe Rogan 21:44 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 21:45 So, it i- you know, you can be clever, you know, and get around it. It is possible.

Joe Rogan 21:50 Yeah, it can be done, but-

Louis C.K. 21:51 Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 21:51 ... it's, it, it's gotta be very nice to not have to deal with any of that.

Louis C.K. 21:56 It is. Also, things like, there's no stars in this movie. There's nobody-

Joe Rogan 21:59 Ouch.

Louis C.K. 21:59 I didn't need anybody to carry the movie.

Joe Rogan 22:01 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 22:01 He's the star of the movie.

Joe Rogan 22:04 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 22:04 I mean, I, I got some YouTube specials.

Joe Rogan 22:07 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 22:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:08 But no.

Louis C.K. 22:09 That's true.

Joe Rogan 22:10 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 22:10 You're the biggest star in the movie. I am the biggest star in the movie. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:14 Um, but everybody else is just... we, we, we pick them for their acting, you know? When you get, like, big names to be in your thing, it's like, the grace they have to come down to your thing-

Louis C.K. 22:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:25 ... is what you're counting on. But when you pick people who haven't done something so big before, there's the grace of them stepping up and, like, doing something they didn't know they could do-

Louis C.K. 22:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:34 ... you can see in their eyes in the movie. Everybody in this movie, you can see that they're like, "I've never had a part this big, and I'm..." (slaps hands) And they're nailing it. And it was just so fun. Dorothy Dwyer, who was a comic in Boston when we were kids, and I knew her, she was just a nice lady who I knew, and she was funny. And now she's in s- in, uh, sweatpants doing this hilarious character in this movie. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 22:55 And every time I was watching her, I had my hand over my mouth-

Joe Rogan 22:57 (clears throat)

Louis C.K. 22:57 ... like, "I can't believe how great this is." Like, I was very, it was very emotional.

Joe Rogan 23:00 Wow.

Louis C.K. 23:01 Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Joe Rogan 23:02 So, when you're doing something like this and you're also touring-

Louis C.K. 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 ... 'cause you're, you're still touring a lot-

Louis C.K. 23:07 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:07 ... uh, how do you allocate the time? Do you just decide to take a couple of months off and not do any standup, or how do you, how do you handle that?

Louis C.K. 23:15 Well, I've gotten kinda good at segmenting time, and you, when you're not thinking about something, you put it aside like it doesn't exist at all. So, with this thing, like, we wrote it.

Joe Rogan 23:24 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 23:25 (clears throat) Then we were in pre-production. I think I toured during pre-production.

Joe Rogan 23:29 I think you shot a special the night before we went into production-

Louis C.K. 23:32 That's right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:33 ... which I argued against-

Louis C.K. 23:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:34 ... pretty hard. I was like, "I don't think that's a great idea."

Louis C.K. 23:36 That's right.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Why did you think it was a bad idea?

Louis C.K. 23:38 It was the day before.

Joe Rogan 23:38 I, well, I just was like, "Why don't we just focus on the movie?"

Louis C.K. 23:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:42 But we're different kinds of guys, obviously.

Louis C.K. 23:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:44 And he's like, "I'm thinking about shooting a special?" Literally the night before we started shooting, or maybe there was one day.

Louis C.K. 23:50 It was one day between, that's right.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Yeah, and I was like-

Louis C.K. 23:52 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 23:52 ... "Ah, you can shoot it after. That's probably for the best."

Louis C.K. 23:54 That's right.

Joe Rogan 23:55 But, uh...

Louis C.K. 23:55 That's right.

Joe Rogan 23:56 I didn't, I lost that argument.

Louis C.K. 23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:57 But it's better to do it that way than do it the other way, 'cause if you shoot afterwards, then you haven't done standup in a long time.

Louis C.K. 24:02 That's right. For the, for the special it was better, and also...

Joe Rogan 24:05 Joe was being selfish.

Louis C.K. 24:06 Yes. No, he wasn't being selfish. He was being-

Joe Rogan 24:07 Sounds so-

Louis C.K. 24:07 ... conscious of, of his corner of the part of things-

Joe Rogan 24:11 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 24:11 ... which was the movie. But what I w- had in mind-

Joe Rogan 24:13 (clears throat)

Louis C.K. 24:14 ... is that I need to finance the fucking movie.

Joe Rogan 24:17 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 24:17 And the special is guaranteed cash.

Joe Rogan 24:19 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 24:20 I know what I make for specials. So, I didn't have enough money, really, to make the movie.... but I knew if I make the special and then the movie, one way or the other, I'm gonna come out ahead.

Joe List 24:28 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 24:29 'Cause the special's just gonna make, you know. Uh, it took the budget of the special and the movie, kinda combined them as this year's output.

Joe List 24:35 Mm.

Louis C.K. 24:35 And figured if the sp- if, if the special makes what it used to make, what I'm used to, and it did far exceeded it. It did really great. So, um, yeah, so it works. So I needed, I'd say, uh, I needed to shoot. Now, now I can tell you. (laughs)

Joe List 24:49 Well, but we also-

Louis C.K. 24:49 I needed it.

Joe List 24:50 But we also-

Louis C.K. 24:50 Otherwise w- there wouldn't have been no movie without a special.

Joe List 24:52 Well, it was also scary 'cause we shot within your touring schedule.

Louis C.K. 24:56 Yes.

Joe List 24:56 So we had no room for, uh, no margin of error. And then the first day of production, my wife was, she was gone, she was doing Zany's. She's a comedian.

Louis C.K. 25:06 Yeah.

Joe List 25:06 She was at Zany's, she came home, so I'm terrified someone's gonna test positive for COVID-

Louis C.K. 25:11 Yeah.

Joe List 25:11 ...' cause this is still COVID-y times. And I'm like, "If someone gets COVID, because it's SAG or whatever union shit, they'll shut us down and there's no place-

Louis C.K. 25:19 Yeah.

Joe List 25:19 ... to re-shoot." She comes home from Chicago, first night, you know, we're making out, we're having anal, sh- she's fucking me-

Louis C.K. 25:26 (laughs)

Joe List 25:26 ... and sh- she gets a text. The guy, a friend of hers that she was with the day before is positive for COVID.

Louis C.K. 25:32 Yeah.

Joe List 25:32 So I was like, "You fucked me." (laughs) "You gotta, this movie's gonna derail." She-

Louis C.K. 25:37 If anybody had gotten COVID, the movie wouldn't have gotten made.

Joe List 25:39 Yes. But-

Louis C.K. 25:40 We didn't have that am- we didn't have room.

Joe List 25:42 She, uh, was ended up being negative. Positive for herpes, but negative for, um COVID.

Joe Rogan 25:47 (laughs)

Joe List 25:47 I feel like I have to say I'm just kidding. I have herpes, she doesn't. In case I die-

Louis C.K. 25:51 Ah!

Joe List 25:51 ... I want her to be able to get laid.

Joe Rogan 25:53 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 25:53 Do you still get herpes tests just to get that positive? Just 'cause you know what the hell?

Joe List 25:56 I don't get tests, but I get outbreaks and I'm like, "That's-"

Louis C.K. 25:59 Yeah.

Joe List 25:59 "There's two lines there." (laughs) Like, "I'm gonna have it."

Joe Rogan 26:01 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 26:02 Two pink lines.

Joe List 26:03 Definitely, definitely still have it.

Louis C.K. 26:04 Yeah.

Joe List 26:04 You got your antibodies strong. I'll probably have it after this. I'm on no sleep, I'm stressed.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Lucky Strikes?

Louis C.K. 26:10 Lucky Strikes. I ripped the filter off 'cause I don't, I, that's, that's a-

Joe List 26:13 Really?

Louis C.K. 26:13 That's a lucky, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:15 No filters.

Louis C.K. 26:15 I don't smoke much, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:17 You smoke occasionally. I like a cigarette before-

Louis C.K. 26:19 Once a while.

Joe Rogan 26:19 ... a show. Cigarettes before shows are fucking fun. It's got, cigarettes have a lot of-

Louis C.K. 26:23 What does it do for you?

Joe Rogan 26:23 They give you a lot of fuck it.

Louis C.K. 26:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:25 Cigarettes have like fuck it.

Joe List 26:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:28 There's fuck it built into a cigarette.

Louis C.K. 26:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:29 You just smoke a cig and you're like, "Ah."

Louis C.K. 26:31 It's true. I think of cigarettes as like-

Joe Rogan 26:33 Give me one of those.

Louis C.K. 26:33 ... as like the world is, you just found out-

Joe List 26:35 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 26:35 ... th- the world's ending.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 26:36 Light a fucking cigarette.

Joe Rogan 26:37 Exactly.

Louis C.K. 26:37 That's the first thing I would do.

Joe Rogan 26:39 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 26:39 I always keep cigarettes in my house for that moment.

Joe List 26:42 Hmm.

Louis C.K. 26:42 'Cause I'm expecting.

Joe Rogan 26:43 And they help your shit.

Louis C.K. 26:44 Do they?

Joe Rogan 26:45 I don't know. Nicotine, right? Doesn't it get it going?

Louis C.K. 26:47 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 26:48 Nicotine and coffee definitely do.

Joe List 26:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Yeah, there's something about nicotine and coffee just opens up the port.

Joe List 26:55 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 26:55 Let's go.

Joe Rogan 26:56 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 26:56 Just let it fall out. You don't even have to squeeze.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Yeah, I don't know what's happening. I mean, just the som- I w- I wonder what, if amyl nitrate does that, like that's the reason why, uh, gay guys like poppers.

Louis C.K. 27:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:05 It's 'cause it relaxes-

Louis C.K. 27:07 'Cause it opens them up?

Joe Rogan 27:07 ... your asshole muscles.

Louis C.K. 27:08 Is that true? Or you-

Joe Rogan 27:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louis C.K. 27:09 Oh.

Joe Rogan 27:10 Yeah, that's part-

Joe List 27:11 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:11 ... of, it's like a feeling of euphoria, apparently, and also relaxing your asshole muscles, and also destroying your immune system.

Louis C.K. 27:18 Yeah.

Joe List 27:18 Oh, wow.

Louis C.K. 27:19 'Cause they s- they still do that?

Joe Rogan 27:20 I don't know. I'd gotta ask.

Louis C.K. 27:21 I feel like a lot of it's changed since the '80s, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:22 You should put a poll out.

Louis C.K. 27:23 Yeah.

Joe List 27:24 What is a popper?

Louis C.K. 27:25 Those amyl nitrate, you crack this thing under your nose and-

Joe List 27:29 Oh.

Louis C.K. 27:29 ... it makes you, makes you, uh-

Joe List 27:31 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 27:32 ... make that sound and then you come.

Joe List 27:33 Let's get some. Get three of them right now. Let's get weird.

Joe Rogan 27:36 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 27:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:37 Well, we have, uh, smelling salts, which is almost as good.

Joe List 27:39 Oh, those are fun.

Joe Rogan 27:40 Have you ever smelled those?

Joe List 27:41 I have, yeah, in elementary sch- or not elementary school. I guess it was high school, in school, whatever school's called. I was like pretending to be sick to get out of class and then, uh, the teacher gave me smelling salts and it was quite a, quite a thrill.

Joe Rogan 27:53 It's a jolt.

Joe List 27:54 Yeah, it was a jolt.

Louis C.K. 27:55 It's to wake you up when you've passed out, right? Like it-

Joe List 27:57 Yeah, it's like after you got a big hit. And, well, in th- the old days in football they'd just give you smelling salts, but now they send you in the tent.

Louis C.K. 28:03 Have you ever seen-

Joe List 28:04 But hockey players do it before a game.

Louis C.K. 28:05 Have you ever seen videos of, it's, uh, like, a, a boxing match I saw in, in Africa somewhere and a guy was knocked out and his trainer goes over and reaches in his shorts and just starts jacking them off-

Joe List 28:15 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 28:15 ... to wake him up. Have you ever seen that?

Joe List 28:16 Yes. I have seen that.

Joe Rogan 28:17 Stop it.

Joe List 28:17 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 28:17 I've seen this many places.

Joe List 28:18 I've seen that.

Louis C.K. 28:18 It's just a normal-

Joe List 28:19 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 28:20 ... a- heterosexual athletic idea.

Joe List 28:22 Come on.

Joe Rogan 28:22 I don't understand why they do that. I think it might just be a perv who just says, "I know how to fix it."

Joe List 28:26 Can we pull this up, 'cause I'm not buying it.

Louis C.K. 28:28 I think it, I think you guys are fucking with me.

Joe List 28:29 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll find it, yeah.

Louis C.K. 28:30 It's some old wives' tale, you know.

Joe Rogan 28:31 There's quite a few of those.

Louis C.K. 28:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:33 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 28:34 That's weird.

Joe Rogan 28:34 When you get kicked in the nuts and here it goes.

Louis C.K. 28:36 Here we go.

Joe List 28:37 What? Come on.

Louis C.K. 28:38 See, he passed out. He's been KO'd. He's like, "Let me-"

Joe List 28:39 Get in there, get in there. Jock-

Joe Rogan 28:40 Grab his cock now that he is out.

Louis C.K. 28:42 Yeah. Pour water, water board him first.

Joe Rogan 28:44 Yeah.

Joe List 28:45 Oh, my God.

Louis C.K. 28:46 Yeah.

Joe List 28:47 So-

Joe Rogan 28:47 He's rubbing his dick and the other guy's rubbing his tummy.

Louis C.K. 28:49 Yeah.

Joe List 28:50 Oh, my God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:52 (laughs) Yeah, he's pulling on his cock. Maybe the idea is so you're like, "Why's this guy jerking me o- I gotta wake up."

Louis C.K. 28:58 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:59 (laughs)

Joe List 28:59 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 28:59 So that's it. Wait a minute. He's still, by the way, he's hav- is, he's either still passed out-

Joe Rogan 29:04 Now he's enjoying it and now he's like-

Louis C.K. 29:04 ... or he's enjoying it.

Joe Rogan 29:05 ... "Oh, faster."

Louis C.K. 29:06 Yeah.

Joe List 29:06 The guy on the top is just playing bongos on his head.

Louis C.K. 29:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Is this from a fight?

Louis C.K. 29:11 I think it was a fight. You see those people circled around.

Joe Rogan 29:13 Hmm.

Joe List 29:13 It was a car accident.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Yeah. Oh, he's got blood coming out of his nose.

Louis C.K. 29:15 Yeah, you'll see there were a fight. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:16 Oh, yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:16 At least they have-

Joe Rogan 29:17 Oh, this is, I know what this is. This is that, I think they only have like one glove on.

Joe List 29:21 One glove, yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:21 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:22 They're, they're, they hit each other with one hand only.

Joe List 29:23 This is the Michael Jackson fight.

Joe Rogan 29:24 Oh.

Louis C.K. 29:25 That was it.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Yeah, there it is.

Joe List 29:27 Wow. Is it a protective glove? It doesn't even look like it has padding.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yeah, it has padding. There's a glove that some, uh, Muay Thai fighters wear where the fingers are exposed and it's, it's basically like glorified hand wraps. It's like thicker hand wraps and they-

Joe List 29:40 Oh.

Joe Rogan 29:40 ... they fight like that.

Joe List 29:41 No kidding. It's quite common.

Louis C.K. 29:41 I was watching a Muay Thai movie, a Cambodian movie-

Joe Rogan 29:44 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:44 ... in a hotel and it's a, they did rope fighting.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:47 They put ropes around their wrists.

Joe Rogan 29:49 Yes. Yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:49 Brutal.

Joe Rogan 29:50 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 29:50 It's a good movie if you'll recall.

Joe Rogan 29:51 It's brutal, yeah. There's a, there's a, uh, type of fighting called Lethwei that's, uh, big in Myanmar and they, uh, they headbutt, they, uh, they, they fight bare knuckle, they headbutt each other-

Louis C.K. 30:03 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 30:03 ... elbow each other. It's fucking ruthless.

Joe List 30:05 Ugh.

Louis C.K. 30:05 They must not last very long, those fighters.

Joe Rogan 30:07 I had the, the main guy, David Leduc, uh, in here, the, the champion and he's fucking the nicest guy in the world.

Joe List 30:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 30:12 So nice and funny and, uh-

Joe List 30:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:15 ... is a vegan.

Joe List 30:16 Hm.

Joe Rogan 30:17 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 30:17 Neat.

Joe Rogan 30:17 Interesting cat.

Louis C.K. 30:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 30:19 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 30:20 It's weird to, when people pass, when people get knocked out, the stuff their bodies do.

Joe Rogan 30:23 Oh, yeah.

Louis C.K. 30:24 Like, their arms going up in the air.

Joe Rogan 30:25 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 30:25 Like remember when Ricky Hatton got knocked out by Pacquiao, I think.

Joe Rogan 30:29 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 30:29 And he did this weird, his... And they start snoring right away.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Right away, yeah.

Louis C.K. 30:33 Fucking must be horrible.

Joe Rogan 30:34 Yeah. The first time I ever saw someone knocked out that's what was so, uh, weird about it was the snoring.

Louis C.K. 30:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Instantaneous snoring.

Joe List 30:41 What if it, do you-

Louis C.K. 30:42 If you don't snore in your regular life, do you snore when you get knocked out? Or is it only snorers who snore?

Joe Rogan 30:47 That's a good question.

Louis C.K. 30:48 That is a good question.

Joe Rogan 30:49 I'm not sure. N- I've seen people get knocked out and not snore.

Louis C.K. 30:53 It's like a deep sleep, sudden deep sleep.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Yeah. And when they wake up, they have zero idea what happened and they keep asking. So, like, if you got knocked out, you'd be like, "What happened?" And I'd go, "Tsh, dude, you just got knocked out." You'd be like, "Whew, what is going... What happened?" Like-

Louis C.K. 31:06 They have to ask over and over again?

Joe Rogan 31:07 Over and over again. You don't remember. Like hours later, you might not remember.

Louis C.K. 31:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Like hours later, you'd be like, "When were we fighting?" Like, "You already fought."

Louis C.K. 31:13 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 31:13 You got knocked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louis C.K. 31:15 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 31:15 It's... When you're with friends that have been knocked out, it's, it's very... I've never been knocked unconscious, um, but I've, I've been TKOd, which is, uh, a lot different, like you just... Legs give out and I just went down.

Louis C.K. 31:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:26 But I was awake the whole time, so I don't know what it's like to just wake up, but it seems very jarring.

Louis C.K. 31:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:33 It seems like they look very confused. And I've, I've interviewed a bunch of guys that have been knocked out, and I kinda said, at a certain point in time, I'm not gonna do that anymore, 'cause sometimes they wouldn't remember what happened-

Louis C.K. 31:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:43 ... and they'd remember things that didn't happen.

Louis C.K. 31:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:44 Like one guy, he got knocked out and he was like, "The guy tapped. He tapped." I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

Louis C.K. 31:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:50 He's like, "There was a time in the fight where he tapped out." And so we actually had to play the replay, unfortunately, like show m-

Louis C.K. 31:56 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:56 ... show me in front of like 15,000 people and millions on TV, show me where he tapped.

Louis C.K. 32:01 You mean right after the fight?

Joe Rogan 32:03 Right after the fight.

Louis C.K. 32:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 32:04 And then afterwards I said, "Hey, I don't think we should do this anymore."

Louis C.K. 32:06 No.

Joe Rogan 32:07 No more, no more interviewing people after they get knocked out.

Louis C.K. 32:09 No. Wow. No, they shouldn't talk to people right after stuff happens.

Joe Rogan 32:12 No, it's... It... But some people wanna talk. Some people, after they get KO'd, they want... And some people are great at it.

Louis C.K. 32:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:18 They say, "Hey, hats off to my opponent. He was the better man."

Louis C.K. 32:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:21 And they, they know how to put it together and they can handle... It t- really depends on how bad you got fucked up.

Louis C.K. 32:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:26 Like some...

Louis C.K. 32:27 It has to be insane to get knocked out in c- those big, big fights and wake up with 14,000 people. I mean that's... How long before they realized, "Oh, right, I was in a prize fight"? Is it immediate? I mean, 'c- 'cause there must be a moment where they're just like, "Wait, what is this?"

Joe Rogan 32:42 What is my life? You know.

Louis C.K. 32:42 I mean, even if it's just for a second, and then they're like, "Oh, right, I'm fighting."

Joe Rogan 32:45 Well, when you also... When you lose consciousness, you lose everything.

Louis C.K. 32:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:49 And then it comes rushing back. Yeah.

Louis C.K. 32:51 So your whole identity kinda leaves you and comes back.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Yeah, it's, uh... It's not good for you.

Louis C.K. 32:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:57 (laughs) That's my number one moral and ethical conflict with being a, a commentator for fights, is that I know that these guys are, like, legitimately harming their brains.

Louis C.K. 33:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:06 There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Louis C.K. 33:09 Nope.

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 33:10 Nope.

Joe Rogan 33:10 They all have CTE, all... Like, the guys who've been fighting for 15 years.

Louis C.K. 33:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:13 It's just a matter of how much. They might have just a small amount, you know, and then they might have a lot.

Louis C.K. 33:17 But that thing about, like, not kn- like, being talked to right after, it's like when there's, like, school shootings and the press goes there.

Joe Rogan 33:24 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 33:25 Like Anderson Cooper, r- like, reporting from the fucking school grounds.

Joe Rogan 33:29 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 33:30 And they start getting folks to talk.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 33:32 These are folks that don't know what it's like to be on television. They haven't processed what happened at all, and they're like, "No, no, you should talk. You should talk," and th- th- You know. I remember after the awful one in Connecticut, the, the parents are, like, being told... They got no... "Let us talk to your kid." And they ha- they don't know what it's gonna feel like. They don't know what's happened. They don't know anything about what's happ- You shouldn't put people on television in that vulnerable state, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:55 It's terrible. It's also terrible because when you've experienced a traumatic event, your memory is really fucked up.

Louis C.K. 34:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:01 That's one of the things th- with conspiracy theorists, like after a big event, they're like, "I heard explosions, I heard this, I saw a man running away." They don't know what the fuck they remember.

Louis C.K. 34:10 No.

Joe Rogan 34:10 The... If you have an extraordinary moment that's so outside of the norm, like a plane hitting the Twin Towers, you are so fucked up, your reality has been rocked so hard-

Louis C.K. 34:21 Yep.

Joe Rogan 34:21 ... it's gonna take you a long time before you process. And even then, your memory-

Louis C.K. 34:25 It'll never be your memory.

Joe Rogan 34:26 Right. It can be very, like, fragmented.

Louis C.K. 34:26 It'll never be, like, a pr- playback of what happened even.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Yes, exactly.

Louis C.K. 34:29 Because your body keeps you from that.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 34:31 Your body injects you with adrenaline-

Joe Rogan 34:33 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 34:34 ... and turns your brain into a reptilian, uh, survival machine. It stops recording, you know-

Joe Rogan 34:40 Yes.

Louis C.K. 34:40 ... reliably and storing reliably.

Joe Rogan 34:42 Yes. Yes.

Louis C.K. 34:42 So that's like the last person you should ask, you know.

Joe Rogan 34:45 Yeah, and then that's why you get so many dis- d- like, completely different versions of what happened.

Louis C.K. 34:51 Mm-hmm. Right.

Joe Rogan 34:51 Like, people don't know. And then also it's easy to plant a narrative in someone's head.

Louis C.K. 34:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:55 It's e- easy to tell them what it is, and then they'll start repeating it even if it's incorrect, when they were actually there.

Louis C.K. 35:01 Yup.

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yeah, y- that's why, like, eyewitness testimony for crimes is, is very problematic.

Louis C.K. 35:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:07 It's like it's the most unreliable testimony, 'cause people really don't remember. Like people will be convinced... They'll have a person on the stand, "That's the guy who mugged me," and they're fucking totally wrong, but in their mind, they remember that guy, they see that guy, they see the guy who punched them, they see the guy who stole... And it's not the same guy at all.

Louis C.K. 35:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:23 And in their mind, they just decide that this is the person and the mind sort of fills in with memories.

Louis C.K. 35:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:29 Me- memory's a fucking weird thing.

Louis C.K. 35:31 I've read that when you remember something, you're just remembering the last time you remembered it. You're not actually recalling-

Joe Rogan 35:38 Oh, sure.

Louis C.K. 35:38 ... the event.

Joe Rogan 35:39 Yeah. Well, not only that, you're remembering your version of it.

Louis C.K. 35:42 And you're remembering what you want-

Joe Rogan 35:44 The version that you told people.

Louis C.K. 35:44 ... and what you need to hang onto.

Joe Rogan 35:45 Yes.

Louis C.K. 35:45 And sometimes you're remembering things that you can't let go of-

Joe Rogan 35:48 Yes.

Louis C.K. 35:48 ... and things that are starting to resound and become bigger and bigger.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Right. Like OJ.

Louis C.K. 35:52 It's even... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:52 Do you think OJ really remembers what happened that night? I w- I w- would like to... I would wonder what his actual memory is like.

Louis C.K. 35:59 Well, his book is-

Joe Rogan 36:00 Yeah, I got that book.

Louis C.K. 36:01 ... the memory book. And it's when he's... There's one point where he's in the car and there's a guy in the backseat. He had a character with him who was yelling at him, saying, "What are you doing, OJ? You can't, you can't do this," and he's telling him to shut up. This is what people do when they're in a... They split in two.

Joe Rogan 36:16 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Louis C.K. 36:17 So, so he... That is probably how he remembers it, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:20 Right.

Louis C.K. 36:21 I mean, I don't fucking know, but, you know.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah, I don't fucking know either, but i- it's... Watching that guy on Twitter is fucking fascinating.

Louis C.K. 36:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:29 Have you ever watched his videos? Like, "Hello-"

Louis C.K. 36:31 No.

Joe Rogan 36:31 "... Twitter world. It's yours truly, OJ Simpson."

Louis C.K. 36:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:33 You need to see it. You haven't seen this? You need to see some of these. They're fucking incredible. And he's so oblivious that he'll comment on, like, murders.

Louis C.K. 36:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:42 Like, "This is so senseless."

Louis C.K. 36:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:43 And then the, the... Look in the comments, I, I don't know if he reads the comments or not, but it's all like, "Knives," and shit, like people post-

Louis C.K. 36:49 (laughs)

36:50 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:52 (laughs) It's fucking crazy. And he's out there golfing.

Louis C.K. 36:54 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:55 I mean-

Louis C.K. 36:55 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:55 ... the guy allegedly killed two people-

Louis C.K. 36:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:58 ... with a fucking knife-

Louis C.K. 36:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:59 ... which is one of the most horrific ways to kill someone.

Louis C.K. 37:01 Almost cut her head off.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Right. Here it is.

Louis C.K. 37:02 Down to the bone, down to the spine.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Give me, give me some, give me some volume on this. It's okay.

OJ Simpson 37:07 Hey, tour the world is me, yours truly. Well, I'm, been watching, uh, you know, uh, um, uh, the Golf Channel as they get ready for the Open.

Louis C.K. 37:16 Sure.

OJ Simpson 37:16 And I saw Tiger and his comments about the LIV Golf, and I agree with 95% of what he said. But I couldn't disagree with him more, uh, with something that he said that all these announcers, uh, seem to be running with, um, uh, their belief that by getting guaranteed money that these guys are gonna be, uh, uh, de-incentivized to work out, I guess. Uh, that what's their, you know, incentive to work out? Pride. Hey, I bet guaranteed contracts at the end of my NFL contract-

Louis C.K. 37:52 And I still sell my wife. (laughs)

OJ Simpson 37:53 ... didn't keep me from working my butt off, trust me. Um, um, I guarantee you that Tom Brady is working his butt off. There's so many guys in basketball, football, LeBron James, with guaranteed contracts that I don't understand why you're gonna disrespect the competitive spirit of golfers being disrespected by golf ana- you know, uh, um, uh, analysts. Uh, come on guys. But maybe Mickelson, you know when you get older it's harder to- (laughs)

Louis C.K. 38:21 Oh, you called that one out.

Joe Rogan 38:23 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 38:23 That piece of shit. He was not gonna say that.

OJ Simpson 38:24 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 38:24 Maybe Mickelson's a lazy fucker.

OJ Simpson 38:27 He's just always been realized, but Dustin Johnson and Koepka there, I don't believe that argument, um, um, uh, uh, fits. I think these guys are... They're young. They went for the money, but I don't think they're any more de-, uh, incentivized than they were before. If that's a word. I might have just invented the word.

Joe Rogan 38:46 (laughs)

OJ Simpson 38:46 But any other word.

Louis C.K. 38:47 Does he have a nose ring?

OJ Simpson 38:48 Uh, LIV-

Louis C.K. 38:49 That'd be amazing if he did.

OJ Simpson 38:50 ... the one good thing they've done is they've forced the PGA-

Louis C.K. 38:52 No.

OJ Simpson 38:53 ... to, to already establish bigger purses. The guaranteed money portion of it, athletes are athletes. I've known golfers, I've been around them. They're competitors just like football, baseball, basketball players and most of the ones that I've met, virtually all of them for that matter, they want to be the best that they can be. So...

Louis C.K. 39:14 Yeah, you're right on OJ.

Joe Rogan 39:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louis C.K. 39:14 You're right.

Joe Rogan 39:14 Click on the- click on the-

Louis C.K. 39:15 You know what, here's the-

Joe Rogan 39:17 ... that actual thing-

Louis C.K. 39:17 ... the...

Joe Rogan 39:17 ... to see the comments.

Louis C.K. 39:18 The impression I get when I watch this is that if-

Joe Rogan 39:23 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 39:23 ... if OJ

Joe Rogan 39:24 Right away.

Louis C.K. 39:24 ... if OJ hadn't killed his wife and the... and run, I think if he had just had... his life went naturally the way it was going, he'd still be doing that.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Oh yeah, 100%.

Louis C.K. 39:35 Like that would still be him doing that.

Joe Rogan 39:37 This is like, "Love you, Juice, you're a king." But c- scroll up a little bit. This is w- these guys are my favorite right there. "Agree to disagree on this one, Juice, one of the rare instances we disagree."

Louis C.K. 39:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:48 And that's fine.

Louis C.K. 39:49 That's right.

Joe Rogan 39:49 Like those fucking guys are out there.

Louis C.K. 39:52 This... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:53 I, (laughs) -

Louis C.K. 39:53 This, this-

Joe Rogan 39:53 ... I fucking love that there's guys like that out there.

Louis C.K. 39:56 (laughs) We could disagree... We've disagreed twice ever.

Joe Rogan 39:58 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 39:58 It's on this and chopping the lady's head off. Yeah, those are-

Joe Rogan 40:01 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 40:01 ... two points that I didn't care about golf.

Joe Rogan 40:02 Agree to disagree, Juice.

Louis C.K. 40:04 Oh God. Can I see that lighter again?

Joe Rogan 40:06 Yeah. They're just hoping that he like either responds or reads it.

Louis C.K. 40:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:10 It's just like, I l- I love those oblivious guys.

Louis C.K. 40:13 Yeah. (laughs) Well, it's like the women who write to serial killers in prison.

Joe Rogan 40:18 Oh yeah.

Louis C.K. 40:18 They... That's like somebody... It's how lonely people are. It's like that's somebody I can connect with.

Joe Rogan 40:22 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 40:23 I think a guy like that thinks, "OJ might talk to me."

Joe Rogan 40:26 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 40:26 'Cause he's at my level 'cause he killed his wife.

Joe Rogan 40:28 (laughs) Yeah.

Louis C.K. 40:29 So that makes him like not so haughty, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:31 He's a pariah. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 40:32 Yeah, if that guy writes to Ge- to, uh, you know, to Tom Brady, Tom Brady's not writing back. But OJ might hit him.

Joe Rogan 40:39 (laughs) Might hit him back.

Louis C.K. 40:39 Might make him feel like he's alive.

Joe Rogan 40:40 He might send him a DM.

Louis C.K. 40:41 He might feel seen-

Joe Rogan 40:43 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 40:43 ... if he writes to Joe. Did you read The Run of His Life, the Jeffrey Toobin book about him?

Joe Rogan 40:47 No.

Louis C.K. 40:47 It's amazing. It's one of the best books ever. It's like the real-

Joe Rogan 40:50 The guy who got busted jerking off?

Louis C.K. 40:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Jeffrey Toobin?

Louis C.K. 40:52 That guy.

Joe Rogan 40:53 (laughs) They just, they just let him go. They just got rid of him again.

Louis C.K. 40:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:56 They kept him for a little while, like, "Yeah, this is not fun."

Louis C.K. 40:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:59 "This is not... We can't."

Louis C.K. 41:00 Yeah. He wrote an amazing book, but there was a, a compelling piece of, uh, circumstantial evidence that I'm always fascinated by. Two things I remember from that book, but he was doing a TV show at the time about Navy Seals.

Joe Rogan 41:13 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 41:13 And he was consulting with a Navy Seal. And one of the things the Navy Seal told him is that when they go on a secret mission, they wear all black and black knit caps.

Joe Rogan 41:22 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 41:23 'Cause it's actually a decent disguise, which I don't understand how that works, but it is, at night. Makes it harder for you to be described.

Joe Rogan 41:30 There you go.

Louis C.K. 41:30 Your size and your shape and...

Joe Rogan 41:31 Mm.

Louis C.K. 41:32 So he wore that when he did the killing.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Ooh.

Louis C.K. 41:35 He happened to... And they also come up from behind and cut throats or something like that. (motorcycle revs) Yes. Okay.

Joe Rogan 41:40 So that's, that's how he, uh, that's how he did it.

Louis C.K. 41:42 Did they teach him like if a guy comes back to get his sunglasses, here's how you handle that?

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 41:46 In the moment.

Joe Rogan 41:47 That's with the Navy Seals do.

Louis C.K. 41:48 Is that him right after that? What is this?

OJ Simpson 41:49 He was a...

Louis C.K. 41:50 Oh, that's the Seal team on the defunct show called Frogmen.

Joe Rogan 41:52 Oh, on Frogmen. Wow.

OJ Simpson 41:55 Where he was training as a Navy Seal, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:56 That's where he was learning.

Louis C.K. 41:57 So he killed him in that fashion.

Joe Rogan 41:59 Goddamn, he was a handsome guy.

Louis C.K. 42:00 He looks better here. Yeah, than in the previous video.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Well, he's, you know-

Louis C.K. 42:04 That guy is handsome too.

Joe Rogan 42:04 ... 80 fucking years old.

Louis C.K. 42:06 That's a handsome Seal.

Joe Rogan 42:07 Oh, he is a very good-looking guy.

Louis C.K. 42:08 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:08 An amazing in Naked Gun.

Louis C.K. 42:10 He's very funny in Naked Gun.

Joe Rogan 42:11 He was great.

Louis C.K. 42:12 Very funny.

Joe Rogan 42:12 It's so crazy when someone like that does something like what he did.

Louis C.K. 42:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:17 It's just, I mean, it hasn't happened very often because there's a few that like, uh, was it, uh, the woman who drowned, Natalie Wood? Is that it?

Louis C.K. 42:25 Oh, Robert... Natalie Wood drowned.

Joe Rogan 42:27 Was it... Yeah.

Louis C.K. 42:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 42:27 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 42:27 Robert Wagner?

Joe Rogan 42:28 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 42:28 Robert Wagner did not kill her though. That's...

Joe Rogan 42:31 Damn.

Louis C.K. 42:32 I know I watched the documentary so I know. No, I don't fucking know.

Joe Rogan 42:35 Yeah, I don't know either, but there's some people that were on the boat that is, th- there's a... that story's fucked.... there, there's a lot. I don't wanna comment on it because I'm-

Louis C.K. 42:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:42 I don't have the facts at my disposal.

Louis C.K. 42:44 I agree.

Joe Rogan 42:44 But that story's pretty fucked, with, you know, it's like resisting looking for her and, you know, like, "Oh, she fucking disappeared."

Louis C.K. 42:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:51 "She probably went to town."

Louis C.K. 42:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:52 It was one of those things.

Louis C.K. 42:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:53 Like, not like, "Where the fuck is my wife? Jesus Christ."

Louis C.K. 42:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:56 "We gotta find her." It was like, "Oh, she's fine." (laughs)

Louis C.K. 43:00 (laughs)

Joe List 43:00 The other thing that-

Louis C.K. 43:00 (laughs)

Joe List 43:00 The only thing I remember reading that-

Joe Rogan 43:01 I don't know.

Louis C.K. 43:01 "Let's let her sink." (laughs)

Joe List 43:02 I remember reading that book-

Louis C.K. 43:03 Damn it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:04 (laughs)

Joe List 43:04 That's like so obvious, I guess.

Louis C.K. 43:06 Yeah.

Joe List 43:06 But to, to read it, it's like, when you're, uh, on trial for murder and you're found innocent, there's no, uh, like paperwork. You just leave.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Right.

Joe List 43:16 You just go home.

Louis C.K. 43:16 You're free. You're free to go.

Joe List 43:16 There's not like, "All right, you gotta spend one more day in jail or whatever." It's just like, "All right, take care."

Louis C.K. 43:20 Yeah.

Joe List 43:20 And he's like, "All right." So he's just like at, you know, Burger King a few minutes later.

Louis C.K. 43:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:24 That's fascinating.

Louis C.K. 43:26 Well, he was trying to make money, right? So that, he did a lot of wild shit. D- do you remember the rap video he did? Where he was on like, on a throne and it was like, "The Juice is Loose," and it was like all these, like girls dancing around him and he was rapping.

Joe List 43:38 This is before or after the killing?

Joe Rogan 43:40 After, after the killing.

Joe List 43:41 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 43:41 Never saw that?

Joe List 43:42 No.

Joe Rogan 43:42 Fin- find O.J. Simpson's rap song, The Juice is Loose. Look at this, play this. Oh.

Juicy J 43:48 It has escapability. Get juiced. (instrumental music playing)

Joe Rogan 43:54 Look at him.

Louis C.K. 43:56 Whoa, chips. (siren wailing)

Joe Rogan 43:59 Yeah. I mean, come on, how crazy is this?

Louis C.K. 44:01 Well...

Joe Rogan 44:01 This is after he gets ou- this is the '90s before the internet.

Joe List 44:04 This was part of his prank show.

Joe Rogan 44:04 (laughs)

Juicy J 44:05 If he's not back in this motherfucker...

Joe List 44:06 He was a part of a prank show?

Joe Rogan 44:07 Yeah, he was pranking people, and this was part of the TV show.

Juicy J 44:10 I just rapped with O.J. Simpson and Juicy J. Why do people wonder about my intentions?

Joe List 44:14 Imagine this guy murdered your daughter (laughs) and then you're just like, "Oh, there he is."

Joe Rogan 44:18 That's rough.

Louis C.K. 44:18 Crazy.

Juicy J 44:19 All the times I made those people sick.

Joe List 44:21 Great, you can.

Juicy J 44:22 Don't stop, here it comes. Yo, Coast still be stopping the juice. When I'm on the floor, I'm like a lion going loose. Better shoot me with a tranquilizer dart. Don't be fooling stupid. I'm not a Simpson named Bart. I'm not cartoon. All right, all right, turn it down.

Joe Rogan 44:33 Wow.

Louis C.K. 44:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:35 I mean, what the fuck? Where, where was this on where they could show tits?

Joe List 44:39 I wanna say at like the Playboy channel or something like that. Like back when you had to get authorized to, uh, get movies in the '90s.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Oh, right. Yeah. I used to have one of those, uh, chips in my DirecTV box.

Joe List 44:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:50 It'd let you get everything.

Louis C.K. 44:51 Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 44:52 Yeah, you get all the pay-per-views, all the movies, and they would scramble it every time a big fight would come out.

Joe List 44:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:55 You'd have to get a new chip. I'd have to call my guy.

Louis C.K. 44:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:58 Like, "You got a new chip ready? Because the fights are about to come out."

Louis C.K. 45:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:01 Looks like... It would be so much easier to just pay for it.

Louis C.K. 45:03 Yes, just pay for it.

Joe Rogan 45:03 And this was on television.

Louis C.K. 45:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:05 I had money, but it was just like so con- I just loved the fact, "Look what I've got. Gosh."

Louis C.K. 45:08 I liked the stealing it.

Joe Rogan 45:10 And it was also like all the porn, like you get all the porn channels. It was like constantly on porn.

Louis C.K. 45:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:14 It's just crazy. Like this is... Back in the day, we had to go to a DVD store and go through the embarrassing beads.

Louis C.K. 45:19 Oh, God. Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:20 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 45:20 The beaded door to that room. And there's a guy at a section you wanna be at, but you don't wanna...

Joe Rogan 45:26 You don't wanna go close to him. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 45:26 You don't want to be shoulder to shoulder with him. Like, "I saw that one."

Joe Rogan 45:29 Kids today will never understand.

Louis C.K. 45:31 I'll never... I remember when there was VHS tapes and they had glitches in them and there would always be one point where there's a big, like, you know, it would get fuzzy on the screen, because that's where the last guy kept rewinding that mom- that was his cum moment.

Joe Rogan 45:43 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 45:44 So he kept going back and back. So that right at a very big cum shot, this is it.

Joe Rogan 45:49 (Laughs) (screeching noise)

Louis C.K. 45:50 Those were the days. We were all sharing porn then.

Joe Rogan 45:53 Yeah, we all would make copies.

Louis C.K. 45:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:55 There was this pool hall that I used to go to. My friend Brian had two VCRs and he would always tell, "Oh, I got a good one, man. I gotta go." He was a hilarious dude. He's like, "I got a fucking good one, man. You gotta get this one." And he'd like hand out copies to everybody.

Louis C.K. 46:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:08 He wanted everybody to be jerking off-

Louis C.K. 46:10 He's a nice guy.

Joe Rogan 46:10 ... to what he was jerking off too.

Louis C.K. 46:11 (Laughs) Yeah. What a sweetheart.

Joe Rogan 46:12 That's sweet. Yeah.

Louis C.K. 46:13 He was shameless. He's, he's like-

Joe List 46:15 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 46:15 Shameless people are fucking hilarious. It's the funny thing about porn is such a private shameful moment.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 46:20 But you're sharing it with a lot of people.

Joe Rogan 46:22 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 46:22 Like if you go on like Pornhub or something and you're watching a video where you're like, "This is weird that I'm watching this. This one's weird. This makes me feel weird." And there's like 365 million views.

Joe Rogan 46:32 (laughs) I know, right? But porn is the strangest thing because it's, it's so forbidden and taboo-

Louis C.K. 46:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:39 ... yet so used.

Louis C.K. 46:41 Oh yeah, because everybody needs it.

Joe Rogan 46:43 It's one of the most downloaded things.

Louis C.K. 46:46 (laughs) Everybody needs it.

Joe Rogan 46:46 (laughs)

Joe List 46:46 Some people don't need it.

Louis C.K. 46:47 No.

Joe Rogan 46:48 I mean, how many people are out there just jerking off to memory? What slice of the pie is that? It's a very s- thin sliver.

Joe List 46:53 I have to say I'm one of these guys. No one believes me. I think because I look like a guy that watches porn. But I think also, I never had access to... I was in... I never had porn. I didn't have an older brother, I think. I don't know. We weren't porn people.

Joe Rogan 47:06 Did you have friends that got porn?

Joe List 47:07 I had friends. I got friends.

Joe Rogan 47:08 I know you have friends that got porn. Notice how I qualified it?

Joe List 47:11 No.

Joe Rogan 47:11 (laughs) I never accepted.

Louis C.K. 47:11 I know like guys who wanted to watch porn together.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Yes.

Louis C.K. 47:14 That's odd. That's...

Joe Rogan 47:14 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 47:15 I don't like that at all.

Joe List 47:16 Yeah, that's odd. That's very strange.

Louis C.K. 47:17 It's private. It's me alone with the porn.

Joe List 47:19 Yeah, I don't really shut up.

Louis C.K. 47:20 I don't really watch, I don't watch porn anymore. And I've, I've started to try to use memory and thoughts, because I think this thing with porn is it crowds out your, your real sexual intention and your own-

Joe List 47:31 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 47:31 ... you know, your natural sexuality. You just look, and you're looking forever for just the right thing. And it's just-

Joe List 47:35 Yes.

Louis C.K. 47:36 It can be exhausting. It made me feel like shit after a while. So I've tried to go back and it's been interesting. No more porn, no more pictures. And just try to think of what gets you there, you know?

Joe List 47:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:47 I-

Louis C.K. 47:47 It means I jerk off less often.

Joe List 47:48 Right.

Louis C.K. 47:49 And it, and it's more of a special thing now.

Joe List 47:51 Ugh.

Louis C.K. 47:51 I feel a lot better since I got to that, you know?

Joe Rogan 47:53 Right. Because when you jerk off it's because you're actually horny and you want to get rid of it, not you're bored.

Louis C.K. 47:58 Right. Or anxious. A lot of times it's just getting, you know, like if-

Joe List 48:00 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 48:01 ... for me, if I'm writing sometimes and I'm just like, "Ah, let's go jerk off." (laughs)

Joe List 48:04 Right. But that's less now. It's less now since I've got, stopped using it. The thing that's reliable, if I plug into this, if I watch this, it's going to get me off. Instead it's like, what actually turns you on? What actually, you know, makes you feel something?

Joe Rogan 48:17 I know a lot of people who feel like they have to jerk off before they perform, before they go on stage.

Joe List 48:21 Oh man, I never would do that.

Joe Rogan 48:21 Yeah, like when they're in the hotel.

Joe List 48:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:23 Before they leave to go to the venue-

Louis C.K. 48:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:24 ... they'll jerk off.

Louis C.K. 48:25 It's always fascinated me with it, the audience doesn't realize how recently the performer has masturbated.

Joe Rogan 48:30 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 48:31 Like we're like... I'm telling jokes and you're like, "Just about 11 minutes ago I was ejaculating."

Joe Rogan 48:36 Is that what you do?

Joe List 48:37 I don't always do that, but I have done that because you're just bored waiting to get picked up. I mean, I did this as a bit. I don't want to just do bits here. But for me it's like porn is just other people fucking. That's why it's hard. Like, I want to picture me having sex. And I mean, the joke is like, it's hard to find a guy that looks like me who's not being tied up and beaten.

Joe Rogan 48:56 Well, there's a lot more of that now because there's a lot of stepmom porn.

Joe List 48:59 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:59 'Cause a guy like you comes home and is like, "Where's Dad?" You know, and the step-mom's wearing lingerie, cooking, and-

Joe List 49:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... bending over to the oven.

Joe List 49:07 See, that's what... Don't... Do you find that at all? Just, you're just watching someone else fuck, and I'm like-

Joe Rogan 49:11 Yeah.

Joe List 49:11 ... "I want that to be me, not h- him."

Joe Rogan 49:13 Yeah.

Joe List 49:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:15 (laughs)

Joe List 49:15 And this is another thing I have with porn.

Louis C.K. 49:16 There's more, there's more, the, like, the newer porn, like PornHub porn, it's a, it's sel-... It's in the camera more.

Joe List 49:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 49:22 Uh, it's a, it's a girl talking to you and, you know, in a scenario where she's en-... They call it jerk-off encouragement, where she's just-

Joe Rogan 49:29 Oh.

Louis C.K. 49:29 ... talking to the camera and trying to get you off.

Joe List 49:31 That's sweet.

Louis C.K. 49:31 There is one weird category which is racist jerk-off encouragement, and it's like a white girl talking to a Black guy jerking off and (laughs) calling him, calling him names-

Joe List 49:41 (laughs) Oh, Jesus.

Louis C.K. 49:42 ... and saying-

Joe List 49:42 Boy.

Louis C.K. 49:42 I mean, those are out there, which means there's people who like that, sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:45 There's people who like virtually everything.

Louis C.K. 49:48 Yes.

Joe List 49:48 Well, my thing also is, like, the porn... To me, why porn is not exciting is I know they're gonna fuck. This is two people who are here to fuck.

Louis C.K. 49:57 Yeah.

Joe List 49:57 I would rather watch a porn that's like a 90-minute movie, and then they have serious sex.

Joe Rogan 50:03 Well, you know, they used to do that. They, they used to go... People would go... When, when Deep Throat came out, Johnny Carson... There's a photo of Johnny Carson in line to see Deep Throat.

Louis C.K. 50:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:12 When Deep Throat came out, like, celebrities-

Louis C.K. 50:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:16 ... actors, people would go to see it as a movie.

Joe List 50:19 That's right.

Joe Rogan 50:19 It was before porn had become stigmatized. It was like, it used to be these girly movies that people would show at s- the, uh, the... They would call them stag movies or stag parties.

Joe List 50:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:28 And, you know, then there was theaters that people would go to see these horrible thing... And someone said, like, "Well, let's make an actual film." And that's what Deep Throat was.

Louis C.K. 50:35 And all the Emmanuelle stories-

Joe Rogan 50:37 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Louis C.K. 50:37 There was, like, series and there was... Uh, uh, I mean Caligula was a... With Peter O'Toole and, uh, Malcolm McDowell, uh, and it's a fucking porn movie.

Joe Rogan 50:47 Yeah, basically.

Louis C.K. 50:48 There's this scene where Malcolm McDowell... I remember this from Caligula that his sister, who he was having sex with in real life, Caligula, um, is... You know, she's the, whatever, the, the, the empress of Rome and he's the emperor. And he comes over... There's two, two or three guys jerking off into a golden bowl, and she's putting it on her skin, you know, to, uh... 'Cause it's good for her skin. And Caligula goes over and he takes a little- (laughs)

Joe List 51:13 Oh.

Louis C.K. 51:13 He takes a little lick of it. He's like, "Hey, it's very good." And this was a fucking movie with real stars and it had-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 51:18 ... real production. It was, like, a decent movie about Caligula. It's just there's long fucking scenes that have no plot in them.

Joe Rogan 51:24 It's interesting that that wasn't really that long ago, but the, the tone and the way we view porn has changed radically. Like, the idea of-

Louis C.K. 51:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:32 ... having a film where you... You know, that wa- that was what sunk Vincent Gallo's career.

Louis C.K. 51:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:37 Do you know he did that film, Brown Bunny?

Louis C.K. 51:39 That's right.

Joe Rogan 51:39 Yeah, he did-

Louis C.K. 51:40 With Chloe.

Joe Rogan 51:41 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 51:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:41 How do you say her last name? Sevigny?

Louis C.K. 51:43 Sevigny.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Sevigny.

Louis C.K. 51:44 Yeah. She's great.

Joe Rogan 51:44 She's great.

Joe List 51:45 Great, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:45 She's sort of survived it, but that-

Joe List 51:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:47 ... fucked him forever. I mean, he was a great actor. He's-

Joe List 51:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:50 ... done some great stuff.

Louis C.K. 51:50 And directed too.

Joe Rogan 51:51 Yeah, he's r- really interested... And he directed Brown Bunny and he-

Louis C.K. 51:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:54 ... did Buffalo '66.

Louis C.K. 51:56 Didn't Steve Bannon produce it? I think he produced Brown Bunny.

Joe Rogan 52:00 Really?

Louis C.K. 52:00 Yeah, somebody told me that.

Joe Rogan 52:01 Oh, Google that.

Louis C.K. 52:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:03 We need to know if that's true.

Louis C.K. 52:03 I think he did.

Joe Rogan 52:04 But, so in b- in Brown Bunny, he gets a... Chloe gives him a real blowjob, like, you see it-

Louis C.K. 52:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... and it, like, comes on her face and the whole deal.

Joe List 52:10 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 52:10 It's like, it's crazy 'cause-

Louis C.K. 52:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:12 And people got up and they left the movie theater like, "What the fuck?"

Louis C.K. 52:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:16 Which is really weird because, like, if you shoot someone in the face in a movie, like, go to see a Quentin Tarantino movie, you see someone getting their fucking face bashed in, on the, on a mantlepiece-

Louis C.K. 52:25 No problem.

Joe Rogan 52:26 ... zero problem.

Joe List 52:26 Yeah, but that's not real.

Joe Rogan 52:28 But it looks real.

Joe List 52:29 Yes.

Joe Rogan 52:29 So what if it was a rubber dick and it shot a ru-... You know, a silicone load in someone's face?

Joe List 52:34 I want one of those. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 52:34 Well, there's... Like, there's a movie called, um... (laughs)

Joe List 52:39 They're available. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 52:40 There's a French movie called Blue Is the Warmest Color.

Joe List 52:43 Oh, yeah.

Louis C.K. 52:44 And it's le-... It got these extremely graphic lesbian scenes and, um... But I, I... Then I heard some... They told everybody it was all prosthetics. We put pasties on our nipples and there was a prosthetic pussy.

Joe Rogan 52:55 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 52:55 But you don't see it. When you're-

Joe Rogan 52:57 Right.

Louis C.K. 52:57 ... seeing it, you're watching, you know, straight on.

Joe Rogan 52:59 Does that make people feel better if it's fake?

Louis C.K. 53:00 I don't know.

Joe List 53:01 That's why it's weird.

Louis C.K. 53:01 It is a weird thing. I don't know why they feel they wanna know that it's not really happening.

Joe List 53:07 There's, uh...

Louis C.K. 53:07 What was his name? Kubrick, when he made Eyes Wide Shut, the idea was like, "Let's make a porn with, with huge stars."

Joe Rogan 53:13 Oh.

Joe List 53:13 I jerk off to that movie all the time.

Louis C.K. 53:15 Yes, well-

Joe List 53:16 Seriously.

Louis C.K. 53:16 But that, I think, was sort of his angle, like a real sex movie with s- serious sex in it.

Joe Rogan 53:21 It's very bizarre, our attitudes towards violence as opposed to our attitude towards sex. Our... Like, sex, you can have sex in a movie. No one has a problem with it as long as you don't actually see a penis and vagina, like, you don't see-

Louis C.K. 53:32 Yeah, you're supposed to just see the hands touching-

Joe Rogan 53:34 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 53:35 ... the chest and the head going down-

Joe Rogan 53:37 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 53:37 ... and the woman going, "Oh," immediately en-... Which women don't immediately enjoy. (laughs)

Joe List 53:42 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 53:42 It's, it's like, "Uh-huh, okay."

Joe List 53:44 Ah, there you go.

Joe Rogan 53:45 It's just very... It's very odd that we have this, these, like, polar lines that we draw with that stuff.

Louis C.K. 53:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Where you can s-... You can see it in a film, like, you could see people having sex but you can't actually see penetration.

Joe List 53:56 No. There's an amazing movie called Stranger by the Lake. I've told you about it. It's a French film. It's a French gay thriller and it's like a Hitchcock movie. It's an amazing movie and it has really graphic sex, like a guy holding a guy's ankles up over his head and, like, fucking him in the ass. And there's cum shots and everything. It's wild. It's not for the faint of heart. But it's, like, a great movie. It's a thriller, it's, it's a wonderful film.

Joe Rogan 54:20 Is it actual sex? Are they actually having sex?

Joe List 54:22 I mean, I don't... I didn't watch the making of it, but it looks-

Joe Rogan 54:24 But does it look like it?

Joe List 54:25 It looks like it. I mean, there's a guy, like, sucking a guy off and there's real cum shooting out of dicks.

Louis C.K. 54:29 Wow.

Joe Rogan 54:30 The most-

Joe List 54:30 But it's also, like, a thriller, whodunit.

Joe Rogan 54:33 What's it called?

Joe List 54:33 It's a great film. It's called Stranger by the Lake. I got the poster at my house. It's great.

Joe Rogan 54:37 (laughs)

Joe List 54:37 There's, like, little cartoon dicks everywhere.

Joe Rogan 54:39 Is that on Apple TV?

Joe List 54:40 Uh, I don't know. I found it on The Criterion Channel.

Louis C.K. 54:42 No, but, but, but 4th of July is on my website for $15.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Oh, louiseck.com.

Joe List 54:46 And the deleted scenes is a, is sucking and fucking, the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Yeah, it's all the parents.

Joe List 54:50 That's right. That's right. Bobby Kelly sucking off Nick DiPaolo.

Louis C.K. 54:53 That's right.

Joe Rogan 54:53 Bobby Kelly was great in it too.

Joe List 54:54 Isn't he amazing?

Louis C.K. 54:55 Amazing.

Joe List 54:55 He's really good. He's so good.

Joe Rogan 54:56 Really good, yeah.

Louis C.K. 54:57 Bobby, I'll put him... I'll put him in anything. He's the best and he-

Joe Rogan 55:00 I love Bobby.

Louis C.K. 55:01 He just... He was one of those guys that didn't like, like picking up, uh, uh, Alex Rodriguez. Like, he can play third... I don't care where he plays, he's gotta be on the team. Like, it's just... We had to have Bobby in the movie, and he fit perfectly as his, as his, uh-

Joe Rogan 55:13 Sponsor.

Louis C.K. 55:13 ... sponsor. Sponsee.

Joe List 55:15 Sponsee.

Louis C.K. 55:15 And it's a cool thing about the, the, the movie, uh, is that it's about AA on some level, but most AA movies have tropes. They have a AA meeting where everybody feels great, and then they... The guy in the movie who's alcoholic always has to relapse and then come... That's the only, it's the only storyline acceptable for alcoholics-

Joe Rogan 55:34 Right.

Louis C.K. 55:34 ... is he falls off the wagon and then comes back. This movie's not about that, but it's about the AA things that are a pain in the ass in AA, like, like having to have a... Sponsors are always very sage.... and sponsees are very innocent. But in this movie, we're shown when you first get your first sponsor, that you don't know, "What the fuck do I say to this guy?" And Bobby is like, plays a very throbbing with need, desperate alcoholic. And Joe, who's barely sober and barely, like, contained, is having to help this fucking guy who he doesn't really get to know or get along with that much.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Right.

Louis C.K. 56:08 So, it was fun to show that anyway.

Joe Rogan 56:11 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 56:11 You know? Bobby was great. I made a special for Bobby. We... Uh, a standup special in Florida.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Oh, really?

Louis C.K. 56:15 Yeah. We shot it a couple months ago, I guess, and-

Joe Rogan 56:17 When does that come out?

Louis C.K. 56:18 I'm gonna... It's gonna be on my website and I'm, I'm... I gotta edit it. It'll probably come in September.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Oh, nice.

Louis C.K. 56:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:23 I'd love to have Bobby on too. I've never had him on.

Louis C.K. 56:25 You should.

Joe Rogan 56:25 I've known Bobby forever. I worked with him when we were both in our early, early 20s back when he was... He was living at a house for, um, mentally handicapped people.

Louis C.K. 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:37 He was, like, helping these people and we took these two girls back to his place to fool around.

Louis C.K. 56:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:42 So we went back to, uh, Bobby's room, me and Bobby and these two girls. And, like-

Louis C.K. 56:46 Were they mentally handicapped?

Joe Rogan 56:48 No, they were regular girls. Oh, okay. They were regular girls.

Louis C.K. 56:50 (laughs) So what happ- what happened? What happens?

Joe Rogan 56:51 Well, we were fooling around with these girls and, like, there's a... One of the mentally challenged guys was in the hallway and something was going on and he had to go out there and talk to him.

Louis C.K. 56:59 (laughs) Damn it. Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 57:01 He's probably trying, "What's going on in there, fellas?" (laughs)

Louis C.K. 57:03 What, what is it? I'm trying to fuck these girls. What's your f-

Joe Rogan 57:05 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 57:05 What are you, retarded? What's your fucking problem? No, Bobby's had an amazing life and he's overcome a lot.

Joe Rogan 57:10 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 57:10 You know, he was raised in foster homes.

Joe Rogan 57:12 Mm-hmm.

Louis C.K. 57:12 Uh, he was abused. He was in, uh, a prison for kids, a f- f- prison farm. He's had a really hard life. And now he's a father and a husband, and he's, he's a... I mean because he's been through a lot, he... Like, when I... I always knew Bobby when he first... He started in Boston after we did.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Yes.

Louis C.K. 57:30 And I'd gone to New York, you'd gone to LA. And-

Joe Rogan 57:32 Well, I was there with him.

Louis C.K. 57:34 Yeah, so you were, you were a couple... You were a few years after me.

Joe Rogan 57:36 You had already gone. He used to open for me. That's how we met these girls.

Louis C.K. 57:38 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:39 He was in Al and the Monkeys with Dane Cook.

Louis C.K. 57:42 Right. That's right. That was their sketch team.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 57:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Yeah. Yeah. Al Del Bene, Dane Cook, and Bobby. And what they would do is they would do sketches, and then they would each do, like, five minutes of standup.

Louis C.K. 57:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:52 And then I would headline.

Louis C.K. 57:53 (clears throat) Right.

Joe Rogan 57:53 And this... It was... That's how me and Bobby became friends.

Louis C.K. 57:56 Well, I knew Bobby when he (clears throat) moved to New York, and he was this kind of really, like, keyed up guy. He kinda... I kinda cringed when I met him 'cause he was just like, "Good!" You know, he's just so...

Joe Rogan 58:06 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 58:06 Good! And he was just, he was a lot.

Joe Rogan 58:08 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 58:08 I just saw him as a guy who was a lot.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 58:10 But he was funny on stage. But then I was going through a divorce. I was having a really hard time. And you never know how much it shows, you know. I thought, "Eh, it's my own thing." But he came... Out of nowhere, he came up to me at the Comedy Cellar, and he had... He said, "Can I talk to you?" And he put... He pulled me aside. He said, "I know that, um..." He said, "I went through a lot of hard things in my life, and I learned that journaling is what can get you through a lot of things. It helps you form your thoughts."

Joe Rogan 58:33 Mm.

Louis C.K. 58:33 "And I know you're going through a divorce and I can see it's hurting you, and so I bought you this." And he gave me a journal.

Joe Rogan 58:39 Oh.

Louis C.K. 58:39 And I just fucking cried in the middle of the Comedy Cellar.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Aw.

Louis C.K. 58:41 I was like, "What... How could you do this to me right now?"

Joe Rogan 58:43 Aw.

Louis C.K. 58:44 And I've loved him since then. He's like a brother to me. I love this guy. So, that's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Yeah. And, and in the movie, he's... He... The thing that's great about directing him is that he's a solid... He's an automatic. He's an extremely good actor. And so you, you abuse a guy like that. Like, if you're shooting a scene with a lot of people and you've given everybody their turn, he goes last. He always goes last 'cause I can count on him.

Louis C.K. 59:05 And, and then it's dark and you're like, "You have to get it in one take. I c- I have no time for you."

Joe Rogan 59:09 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 59:09 And he goes, "It's all right. It's all right."

Joe Rogan 59:12 (laughs)

Louis C.K. 59:12 And he nails it. So-

Joe Rogan 59:14 That's great.

Louis C.K. 59:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Yeah. I knew him back when he was hot Bobby. When he was skinny Bobby.

Louis C.K. 59:18 He was a gorgeous boy.

Joe Rogan 59:19 He was a handsome fella.

Louis C.K. 59:20 Yes.

Joe Rogan 59:21 Oh, yeah.

Louis C.K. 59:21 Yeah. He still is. He's, like, got a handsome face.

Joe Rogan 59:23 Yeah, he's got a handsome face. He's just eating himself into an odd shape. (laughs)

Louis C.K. 59:27 Yeah. Well, he's working on that.

Joe Rogan 59:29 Is he?

Louis C.K. 59:29 Yeah, he is. He's doing good right now.

Joe Rogan 59:30 What's he doing?

Louis C.K. 59:31 I mean, a lot of (...) you know, it's his thing.

Joe Rogan 59:33 Yeah.

Louis C.K. 59:33 But he's doing good.

Joe Rogan 59:34 Heroin.

Louis C.K. 59:34 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 59:35 He's shooting heroin.

Louis C.K. 59:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:36 Amphetamines.

Louis C.K. 59:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:37 That's the move.

Louis C.K. 59:38 A-amphetamines, everything.

Joe Rogan 59:39 He just gets beated up all the time.

Louis C.K. 59:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 59:40 He don't wanna eat.

Louis C.K. 59:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:41 He's always running around. (laughs) If your heart holds out-

Louis C.K. 59:44 No, he looks good. He looks good.

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... he'll get ripped. He's been walking.